📚┃off-topic

[twilit mountain]

Thank you, I undid that one to 150 cuz I used a 2 for the starting number for some reason

I think I reversed the calc in my head

[narrow token]

And flat damage, for the purpose of a melee weapon would be the damage number at the top of the weapon? Do all the prefixes/suffixes like adds 1-10 phys and 30% increased phys change that number? Or do you have to do that calculation in your head somewhere?

[warped wren]

I am a weirdo who does mental math for fun

[twilit mountain]

Yes all those numbers change it, they add to the base damage of the weapon.

[narrow token]

Helpful

[twilit mountain]

If you have a weapon with 15 to 40 physical damage and roll say "adds 10 to 25 physical damage" and then "40% increased physical damage" on it then you add those flat numbers first and then multiply it by that 40%

[warped wren]

this is absolutely basic stuff and I CANNOT believe I'm linking a Maxroll guide but it kinda fits here: https://maxroll.gg/poe/getting-started/damage-for-beginners

[opal anvil]

on that note... is dmg from attunement affected by added damage effectiveness in this case?

[twilit mountain]

Yep

[opal anvil]

pog

[warped wren]

huh, credit where credit is due, they've made this REALLY well

I am impressed.

[lethal bane]

Oh that

That's super clean

[warped wren]

I guess their PoE team is actually pretty good, tbf

[narrow token]

See I never did well in math, so I genuinely forgot ALL of the formulas besides how to add/sub/mult/divide numbers, but for the purpose of this example, you can multiply it by 1.4 for the same result, right? I've seen people do that and I'm still building knowledge here.

[twilit mountain]

Real simple example here.

[twilit mountain]

Yeah you can. Note this is different than if a ring has the "40% increased physical damage" because that's a global multiplier, but honestly you don't need to worry about that right now

[lethal bane]

What is this item? I've never seen it before? Is this another mace?

[narrow token]

I am definitely saving this somewhere.

[twilit mountain]

Weapon based skills are legit the most complicated part of PoE math

[lethal bane]

A new mace base???

[warped wren]

lmfao

[twilit mountain]

You just attracted the horde of Duelist players waiting for his PoE2 release

[opal anvil]

templar wen

:(

[lethal bane]

I can't wait to run Mace on Duelist

[twilit mountain]

When they learn how to shrink necks

[opal anvil]

plz no neck nerf

[warped wren]

y'know what would be real funny

if they create a unique "helm" that's actually a gorget

[narrow token]

But those look cool

[mental talon]

Think I've done some good derusting and experimenting with starters. I feel pretty satisfied now tbh. But the practice continues (surprised at how Smooth Glacial Cascade and Frozen Lotus plays tbh)

[twilit mountain]

They could just make it an amulet tbf

[lethal bane]

I love experimenting with the boys

[narrow token]

Aren't you worried you'll burn out before 0.5? I worry about that.

[warped wren]

I have to test that too, but only after I do one a1-a2 twister run

honestly my last experience with early Monk was awful

[twilit mountain]

I have such a good joke lined up but it would get me muted here

[warped wren]

but open to testing this time

[warped wren]

no it's funnier if it's a helm

[twilit mountain]

Fair enough

[mental talon]

Heh

[opal anvil]

i deadass played through half the campaign to prep to most recent poe1 league

[mental talon]

Uhhhh last time I played Monk was Abyss league and I just started XBows until I hit late tbh because Grenades got numerically buffed into a silly place and I was like sure why not.

[mental talon]

No.

[warped wren]

yeah, afaik it's still better to just do bows or xbows for Monk start

early staves just suck, but I'm gonna give it a shot

[narrow token]

the basic attack hits hard, but it's not versatile

[warped wren]

early most things just suck, tbf

[opal anvil]

unless you get good drop

[twilit mountain]

That's kinda the problem, really. The default attack should just not be a viable option (gods forbid the best option sometimes) past the literal first pack of enemies in the game.

[mental talon]

I've found good success with just Frozen Lotus + Glacial Cascade tbh. Back when you could double stack Bells and could just hold down Ice Strike. I think Cascade into Frozen Lotus carries hard and then you can probably swap to Whirling Assault + Bell.

[warped wren]

📝

will try

[mental talon]

Im gonna test how the Whirling Assault swap feels.

Yeah Glacial Cascade just kinda feels like playing uhhhh Volcanic Fissure (PoE 1) minus auto targetting.

[warped wren]

@mental talon

[mental talon]

Oh I already figured that I just want to know what the Fists of Stone version does.

👀

[narrow token]

I feel like another attack skill that can stand next to tempest flurry and ice strike, but is all phys, should be available earlier. One you can build around like the other 2 skills. You get WA too late for it to be the one.

Unless they move it. Idk

[twilit mountain]

I wish they'd even stop and think for a moment about how late some skills are

Alas

Jonathon Rogers

Brain

Spell please

[narrow token]

I was good at spelling in school. Alas, spell check has rendered that skill useless.

Like memorizing people's phone numbers.

[twilit mountain]

I actually am good at it most of the time, it's with names that I suck

[narrow token]

0.5 initially had me bummed because playing through the campaign with the same skills I'd tried already seemed really demotivating. But I've exhausted my enjoyment of D4 (Despite it being a good update), and LE needs to move faster.

[mental talon]

I'll report back after more Whirling ASsault tests over the coming days tho.

Yippee got like a week and a half of campaign runs to go.

[twilit mountain]

Enjoy. Imma do literally anything except PoE2

[opal anvil]

i'd never play poe2 campaign again, only new acts
though if they streamlined it a bit it might be more bearable

[twilit mountain]

Oh I just don't like the game, really at a baseline

[warped wren]

boy have I got news for you

[opal anvil]

i really hate some things and really like some other things
that's worth playing occasionally in my book

[opal anvil]

i'm listening 0_o

[warped wren]

just go look at the content reveal and the follow up trailer about signposting in campaign

[twilit mountain]

I really hate like... 80% of PoE2? I like the controls. And I guess the visuals are fine, though I don't like how much it kills my performance. I'm not sure what else I could say I enjoy from it.

[opal anvil]

oh i saw the reveal
follow up trailer expands on it?

filling heavy stun on a boss and doing beeg combo feels good

playing one button screen clear like it's poe1 feels good too

wasd is great too yeah

[narrow token]

What's preventing you from enjoying it?

I'm just curious

[twilit mountain]

Everything? I dislike the way they design skills, I dislike how mapping feels, I think the bosses are awful (I beat uber Arbiter on thorns just to validate my opinion on this), I find the mechanics they've introduced so far to be either lackluster or outright bad to play, I hate their unique design, I hate the passive tree, the lore/writing is utter dogshit, and there's so many tiny things in like every aspect of the game that I just loathe entirely (such as leech being phys only at baseline, or all skills, minus a select few utility ones, being perma-weapon locked)

[narrow token]

And I'm guessing the 0.5 reveal did nothing to address those concerns. :\

[twilit mountain]

Correct

[opal anvil]

yeah new content looks fun but it doesn't seem to address any current problems

[narrow token]

I feel like the changes I'd want would probably ruin the game for everyone else. So I'll suffer through them for the combat. No other arpg comes close to that feel.

[sand wigeon]

Diablo 4

Frankly Diablo 4 is everything PoE2 wants to be

[opal anvil]

tbf poe2 combat is pretty far away from games with really good combat feel

this trade off is not worth it imo

[lethal bane]

What would these changes be?

[narrow token]

Seems I'm the odd one out on the combat. Damn. I'm not sure I should share my thoughts on game design knowing that. Pretend I didn't type anything about changes.

[lethal bane]

Quit being coy and spit it out

Just shoot the hot take

If you show me yours I'll show you mine

[opal anvil]

true

it's totally ok to have an opinion

[lethal bane]

No, some opinions are shit. But I want to hear them anyways

[opal anvil]

as long as one does not enforce shit opinion, i dont mind

[jovial bane]

I like that. My hot takes might be shit, but it's my shit

[icy linden]

Since this season, LE early campaign combat is better than PoE1, 2 and D4. D4 war plans are better than monolith mostly because they are easier to play for 30 minutes and feel positive progression.

Come at me BORU

[vagrant topaz]

Unless you have to do a helltide at xx:55

Then you run around for 5 whole minutes waiting for the helltide to spawn

[icy linden]

Haha. Yes. Woeful

[vagrant topaz]

I think that's my biggest issue with d4

It happened like twice maybe 3 times max

I was properly fuming

[icy linden]

Can you reroll just one warplan activity. Thatd be rad.

[fierce moth]

Do light a votive candle for deceased person is a common ritual in Europe?
I wonder if any difference in different European countries

[jovial bane]

Also I think corruption makes exalted items slightly better

a bit of a small improvement, but improvement nontheless

[jovial bane]

In some parts of europe it is, I think more in eastern eu ?

[junior oyster]

I wouldn't mind it if I could block content in d4 for the war table

Helltide in particular

[icy linden]

Corruption is rad.

LE gearing keeps getting better

The imprint changes didn't bother me at all so it's only positives from my perspective 🤷

[junior oyster]

I just wish exalted weren't just mainly fodder for uniques

But gearing is the least of my issues tbf

[narrow token]

Idk how they fix that without making a lot of uniques worth less.

[twilit mountain]

They could just deal with the fact that it's normal and frankly encouraged for long term health that some uniques are simply not good

[narrow token]

That doesn't sound fun.

[junior oyster]

I know others may not have this issue but I hate how items will break

In d4 the crafting feels so much better

[narrow token]

Oh you mean FP?

[twilit mountain]

Not everything in a video game has to be built around a vague sense of fun. What you find fun or unfun is going to be inverse for someone else.

[junior oyster]

This coming from a newbie/casual experience

[junior oyster]

Yea

[narrow token]

Okay, but it's all I have.

[twilit mountain]

I, for example, like having uniques of varying qualities. I'm fine with there being bad ones, leveling ones, good ones, chase ones, horrible ones, niche ones, etc etc. It makes the game more interesting to me, especially when at some point these all shift and change what category they fall into as stuff is added, reworked, buffed, nerfed, and so on.

[sand wigeon]

Lots of people extract their fun from games by using the things that are bad

To challenge themselves with those restrictions

Or to try and find ways to make them work

If everything is good that’s an entire demographic that doesn’t get their fun

[twilit mountain]

Me and my undying love for traps. Someday they'll be back to their former glory. I can feel it.

[sand wigeon]

I remember you were running traps when we met

[twilit mountain]

Sure was. They sucked even then.

[opal anvil]

is grim dawn soiled pants a bad unique 🤔

[junior oyster]

No it's shit

[narrow token]

If only they could separate us into "I want all uniques usable always" and the rest of you guys.

[opal anvil]

[sand wigeon]

Segregation sounds like a great idea.

Why didn’t I think of that.

[twilit mountain]

The "rest of us" are those who, quite frankly, have a competent idea of decent game design from a player's perspective.

[sand wigeon]

Surely they should just make two completely different clients for two different types of people that cannot exist without the other. What will go wrong.

[sand wigeon]

Wait until they learn some games are made difficult because people like struggling!

[opal anvil]

honestly depends on what "bad" means

unusable at all? usable but worse than alternatives?

[sand wigeon]

A unique can do a unique thing and that unique thing can just not be very good while still being unique

[junior oyster]

Honestly it wouldn't work but in poe I wouldn't mind a super casual mode where you get drops like they are candy. Just obv prevent you from merging with the main server.

[sand wigeon]

It’s a unique

[twilit mountain]

I'll put it this way; PoE1 has hundreds upon hundreds of uniques. A lot of them are in fact bad. None of them are entirely unusable forever in every single situation ever.

[sand wigeon]

It’s not a “best in slot” item

It’s meant to fundamentally change some mechanic, not be strictly better

[junior oyster]

And bosses are super easy but I can only dream

[sand wigeon]

And making that change is all a unique needs to be

[opal anvil]

this seems like a good "bad" to me

[desert jasper]

Got to have that vision

[desert jasper]

It's not even unique

[narrow token]

Being the odd one out sucks. Oh well.

[sand wigeon]

Your life is so hard. Truly.

[opal anvil]

it is

[junior oyster]

Yea separating players here for sure. I'd never play soulslikes for this reason. Not that I'm against this kinda thing though

[twilit mountain]

PoE1 is my gold standard for the genre for a reason. It is bloated and messy and old, but it is also a genuinely beautifully made game in its entirety

[sand wigeon]

Yeah, and that’s real as hell

Don’t play games you know you won’t like

But as a dev you have to consider these demographics, consider who you want to pan to and how

[desert jasper]

Soiled Trousers are Epic rarity

[opal anvil]

poe is dope but my favourite is grim dawn
because ||campaign skip|| :^)

[junior oyster]

My fav atm is d4 I can't even lie lol

[opal anvil]

epic and legendary items are not randomly generated
so i would consider them unique

[twilit mountain]

I finish league starts in like, 8 hours tops, so I'm not really one who advocates or cares for a campaign skip

[twilit mountain]

Honestly quite based

[opal anvil]

my best campaign run in poe1 so far is ~10h

thats 10h i could be blasting maps

[junior oyster]

About 20 for me. So player lol

Slow

[twilit mountain]

PoE1 > TLI/D4 > Hero Siege > D3 > LE >>>>> D2 on my end (I'm ignoring a few games cuz I'm tio lazy to list fully)

[narrow token]

I'm slower than you

[twilit mountain]

My best campaign run in PoE1 is 3 hours and 35 minutes

[sand wigeon]

Did you say League

[junior oyster]

Yea I used to see d3 as higher than d4 but now that has changed

[twilit mountain]

Shut up, buy me more Riftbound

[narrow token]

d3 still has my favorite classes from a theme perspective.

[sand wigeon]

Shut up, queue Jungle and gank my Ahri vs Viktor mid lane

[junior oyster]

Wizard is still my fav I agree

[narrow token]

wizard, monk, demon hunter.

[twilit mountain]

D3 is chill as hell, that list is not a slight against the game, I really enjoy D3

[junior oyster]

Same

[sand wigeon]

I remember playing D3 when I was five

[junior oyster]

Just I like d4 more than d3 right now

[sand wigeon]

How old do you all feel now

[twilit mountain]

The only game I am actively insulting in that list is D2, that game is garbage now and it was garbage in 2001 as well

[opal anvil]

curious to try d4 but also there is so much to play already... 💅

[junior oyster]

Mainly because of war plans

[junior oyster]

Ancient

[twilit mountain]

My favorite game series predates me by two months 😔

[jovial bane]

I agree, although with PoE (especially 2) I feel like most are just bad

[narrow token]

War plans are a nice idea. Something doesn't click with the specific activities, for me. They all feel like the same mechanic over and over to me. Idk why

[junior oyster]

What would that be?

[sand wigeon]

Want me to make it worse?

It was post-final DLC

[junior oyster]

I mean yea you are doing the same thing. Killing shit and then killing bosses lol

[sand wigeon]

Play an MMO

It’s all “don’t stand in the red”

[narrow token]

I'm struggling to articulate what I mean, but that's not quite right.

[sand wigeon]

Play a souls like

It’s all “dodge the attack”

Play a puzzle game

It’s all “solve the puzzle”

Sigh

Why are my game genres being the genres they are!

[twilit mountain]

Kingdom Hearts babyyyyyyy, absolute gods damned cinema of a series. What tf is consistent and legible story, who cares, that shit is PEAK! Give me more integral lore in mobile games and rhythm games, Nomura, I will sell you my blood for more entries!

[sand wigeon]

Escape from Tarkov being my childhood game

[junior oyster]

Ah kh lol

[sand wigeon]

Sigh.

[junior oyster]

Never played it

[opal anvil]

i fought 1st boss but that's it

2nd* ig

[twilit mountain]

It's awesome (don't play it)

[opal anvil]

combat kinda reminded me of monster hunter

most op defensive maneuver is walk away from attack

[twilit mountain]

I mean. Yeah. You just described the best defensive move in every game ever

"Don't get hit" is deadass the biggest move you can make in like, every MMO raid or any soulslike

[opal anvil]

"don't get hit" is not always simply "walk"

[sand wigeon]

I mean

It is tho

We have a whole term for it

[twilit mountain]

It is if you dumb it down enough. You can beat every Dark Souls game with zero rolls, zero blocks, zero parries

[sand wigeon]

It’s called spacing

[sand wigeon]

I’ve done this

Well

I didn’t beat DS1 like this

Mostly because I don’t like DS1

[twilit mountain]

You can solo every MH fight with just your thumbsticks and light attacks if you want to

[sand wigeon]

This is pretty much just playing greatsword

[opal anvil]

thats kinda already 80% of gameplay

[sand wigeon]

Woooah

[opal anvil]

at least of old mh

[twilit mountain]

Raids in MMOs are like, 96% walking away from things, 2% buffing each other, 1% dealing damage, and 1% yelling at each other

[sand wigeon]

It’s almost like that’s the point

[sand wigeon]

And 1% the healer getting in 98 damage in their cycle because that’s 98 damage closer to the boss dying (the black mage just hit for 213k)

[opal anvil]

does it really work well in ds3 🤔

[jovial bane]

dont forget walking towards things

[twilit mountain]

Yeah, it might be the easiest one to do it in

[opal anvil]

i can imagine elden ring with only walking/running is cbt

[jovial bane]

but yes, most mechanics is just walking

[twilit mountain]

You just described about 85% of Elden Ring

[sand wigeon]

Works fine

[opal anvil]

haha yea

[sand wigeon]

Not nearly the most difficult DS3 run I’ve done

[opal anvil]

hmm lemme look this up

im curious now

[sand wigeon]

What are you looking up?

[sand wigeon]

That’s probably DS2 btw

[sand wigeon]

Either DS2 or Sekiro (if that even counts since dodging isn’t its primary way to deny damage)

[sand wigeon]

I mean yeah you’ll probably find plenty of videos on it

It’s just a skill and RNG check

Most attacks can be avoided by manipulating enemy AI and blind spots

As long as you know how to do that you’re fine

[opal anvil]

ok i thought ds3 tracking was already too much

[opal anvil]

sekiro no parry 🤔

[twilit mountain]

Been done

Someone's beaten the whole game with just the little head stomp

[opal anvil]

lmao

0_o

[sand wigeon]

Yeah

I think the hardest challenge run out there for the DS series is DS3 No Hit SL1 Torch Only

That’s the hardest one I’ve completed at least

[opal anvil]

ok abyss watchers showed me walking is not in fact most op defensive maneuver in ds3

who woulda thunk

[sand wigeon]

Wait until you look at DS3 pvp

It’s all about spacing

[jovial bane]

most good pvp systems, including irl fighting is about spacing tbh

[opal anvil]

pvp is not a core activity of ds3

i think sekiro final boss with no restrictions took me at least 2x as long 0_o

[sand wigeon]

PvP is a core activity of every Souls game.

[opal anvil]

no? core activity is pve

[sand wigeon]

The PvP is directly tied into the PvE throughout the entire Souls series

[twilit mountain]

Dark Souls is intentionally designed for PvP to be a consistent and prevalent feature that you have to play around from start to finish, been that way since the first entry of the series

[sand wigeon]

Yeah

That’s why invading is a thing in the first place

[opal anvil]

you can pretty easily ignore pvp
like to the point of not interacting with it up to final boss

[sand wigeon]

You can, yeah

You can also ignore coop

[twilit mountain]

It's not like, a side mode or anything. It's a main, integral part of the game. They literally designed NPC invaders to make people have to interact with the underlying system even in offline.

[sand wigeon]

But it’s still a core aspect

[sand wigeon]

Yep

[opal anvil]

npc invaders are pve

[twilit mountain]

If you deliberately ignore the entire purpose of their design philosophy and implementation, sure

[opal anvil]

in fact in all 3 souls games i had to go out of my way to interact with pvp

[twilit mountain]

I highly doubt that

[sand wigeon]

Because you’re sad and have no friends?

Like, the PvP is primarily tied into the co-op

[twilit mountain]

You can login to PS3 Dark Souls 1 now and get invaded in an hour.

[sand wigeon]

Intentionally so that co-op has extra threats

[sand wigeon]

Yeah

Just have to be around SL95

For all areas I mean

You can get invaded above and below that fairly regularly

[desert jasper]

Didn't one of the ds games have this weird thing that if you're playing offline even the npc invasions don't happen? 🤔

[sand wigeon]

DS2

But it wasn’t intentional iirc

And was fixed with SotFS

[opal anvil]

doing coop requires going out of my way too 🤔

[sand wigeon]

Ik because Roy still shows up offline

And I farm that guy for Covenant of Champions all the time

[sand wigeon]

Are you going to say co-op is not an integral part of the game

[opal anvil]

unless you count coop an integral part to experience then pvp is fair game too i guess

[twilit mountain]

DS2 pre-Scholar has like 8 million bugs that range from "this texture doesn't work from the extremely particular angle" to "yeah you're gonna go in the floor now"

[sand wigeon]

Coop is such an integral part of the experience it has defined the entire community

[twilit mountain]

DS1R funny enough had a lot of very similar bugs when it launched (they got patched eventually)

[sand wigeon]

Solaire, Sunbros, jolly cooperation, etc

[opal anvil]

you can easily ignore coop too tbf

[sand wigeon]

In every single game you are given a soapstone early to facilitate coop

[desert jasper]

Also gear losing durability incredibly fast with higher framerate and then they claimed that's not a thing and banned people from their forums
only got fixed when scholar came out and wouldn't you know it, it was a thing on consoles too

[opal anvil]

i can't see such aspect as integral

[sand wigeon]

There’s even NPC coop summons

[sand wigeon]

Then you’re wrong?

Idk what to tell you

DS1 has online coop systems not even tied to you interacting

[twilit mountain]

There were no bans in Ba Sing Se :)

[sand wigeon]

Like Miracle Resonance

You don’t summon for that

It just appears

Online features have always been a big deal to Souls

Vagrants too

Blood stains

Messages

Like these are VERY social games

[desert jasper]

Man, I remember my frist time seeing vagrant

[opal anvil]

blood stains and messages are hard to ignore yeah

[desert jasper]

"wtf is that thing"

[opal anvil]

but they are neither pvp nor coop

dam i never saw a vagrant

do they still appear in remastered?

[sand wigeon]

Yeah

[opal anvil]

maybe i should play it

[sand wigeon]

PvP and Coop are part of the same social systems that define the rest of the game

These games are inherently designed with these systems in mind

They are an integral part of the game

I do not care to continue this conversation

[opal anvil]

it's ok to have different opinions

[sand wigeon]

It’s not

All my opinions are correct

Also this isn’t an opinion thing lol

You’re just wrong

[twilit mountain]

This is one of those times where there is a literal correct and incorrect opinion, and you are on the incorrect side right now

[sand wigeon]

Anything that does not match my opinion is wrong

[opal anvil]

i see

[sand wigeon]

I am god

[opal anvil]

if i do a playthrough of ds1 without summoning or being summoned does it not count

🤔

[sand wigeon]

What does that have to do with anything

That’s how I play

[opal anvil]

without coop?

[sand wigeon]

The conversation isn’t about how you like playing

Yeah?

I play offline 99% of the time because I’m doing challenge runs or modded

[sand wigeon]

You said these systems are not an integral part of the game series and how they are designed

That’s what we’re discussing

[opal anvil]

yeah

if you can ignore something, it's not integral by definition

[sand wigeon]

Or it’s just good design that they made sure the game was still accessible for those without internet

That’s crazy, right?

Even in offline you get invaded and can summon NPC’s lol

You can ignore them but when you look at the history of From Soft, being able to ignore something doesn’t mean it’s not integral

King’s Field is all about integral stuff being completely missable

You can miss some of the most important items in that series and just truck along without knowing

[opal anvil]

you said we are discussing dark souls' online systems

[sand wigeon]

From Software is not a dev that makes sure everything is in your face

The online systems in Dark Souls were always designed to be inherently surprising, obscured and remarkable feeling

They are inherently missable or purposely avoided because even the act of engaging it was meant to be surprising to a new player

Specifically to generate that feeling of being invaded while already low on resources, terrified, unsure what’s happening

Or to be attempting a boss over and over only to one time notice this summon sign

And to go in and finally manage to beat it

Miyazaki talks about these inherent design concepts regularly

[opal anvil]

if dev assumes player can miss something, dev implies it is a non integral item

[sand wigeon]

And a lot of the dev code makes it pretty explicit how they plan around things

[sand wigeon]

I can miss combos in MH too

[desert jasper]

That's probably the dumbest thing I've read all day

[sand wigeon]

I can choose to ignore certain aspects of all games

But they’re still integral to the game

Being missable is a PURPOSELY DESIGNED aspect of it

[jovial bane]

mother of yapping

[twilit mountain]

This is like walking into Street Fighter (or any other motion fighter) and going "well you can just play without the moves so therefore the moves aren't integral to the game"

[sand wigeon]

It’s that way to create a specific feeling and idea

[jovial bane]

I don't mind it, but it's been ages since I've seen off-topic here so active

[sand wigeon]

I get mad when dumb people are around

[jovial bane]

sorry, I will excuse myself 😅

[sand wigeon]

Going “well I can miss it so it’s not integral” is silly when part of the integration is you being able to miss it

[sand wigeon]

Thank you

[opal anvil]

now that i think of it, devs also assume not all players are gonna finish "main story" (for a lack of a better term) of their game. in this case do they consider every player's experience equally worthy? or they have a set of milestones a player must achieve for their experience to be considered "full"?

🤔

[sand wigeon]

I don’t think the dev gives a shit as long as you like the game

[opal anvil]

if coop is an integral part of souls, is there a measure of how much coop i should do for "full" experience?

[sand wigeon]

The devs of Scarlet Hollow assume you’ll miss 99% of the dialogue on a play through and don’t expect normal people to replay it

They still consider your experience complete even with just one play through

I know because I have spoken to them about this

[sand wigeon]

Do none, do it all, doesn’t matter

The experience is designed both ways

But the online aspects of Souls are still integral to the series’ design

[jovial bane]

there is no measure, but considering the structure of the game, how integrated interaction with other players is to the game it is a core aspect of the game

[opal anvil]

so coop is not an integral part of souls if i can ignore it

[sand wigeon]

Oh my gods

Sure

You’re right

Anyway

[opal anvil]

you could say it's an important part

[sand wigeon]

I’m hoping they do something different than Elden Ring

[sand wigeon]

Already said you’re right, babe

[sand wigeon]

Elden Ring was really… Well, bad

And the DLC was worse

So I’m hoping they go a different direction

I don’t think the open world format works for them at all

When I look at King’s Field and earlier Souls games it’s very apparent how structured the world needs to be for certain intended interactions to happen

The DLC of Elden Ring even went so far as to punish me for exploring, since I hit a trigger early and skipped every NPC early quest line without even meeting most of them

So I was punished for exploring in an open world game

[desert jasper]

I don't really enjoy open world games
Like one or two are fine
but then when those are succesful suddenly you have so many other games that suddenly go open world too and there's just fatigue

[sand wigeon]

Their design flaws with the open world format are so plentiful and obvious that I hope they go back to a more structured format like DS3, Sekiro or Bloodborne

I think it’s where their design skills get to shine

[junior oyster]

The only open world games I truly enjoy are gta games. Aside from IV that is

[twilit mountain]

Sekiro 2 someday, surely 🥀

[sand wigeon]

Real af

[sand wigeon]

Someday my unfinished plot lines and lovely characters will come back

Still their best game by a mile

I love King’s Field 4 US release but Sekiro is amazing

[opal anvil]

honestly open world was elden ring's strongest part for me. it was at least fun to explore it for the first time
everything else is just not very good

[twilit mountain]

I have tried to play 4 different GTA games and for the life me I cannot get more than like an hour in before getting bored

[sand wigeon]

You are a troll

[opal anvil]

sekiro was great tho

[sand wigeon]

I refuse to believe otherwise

[opal anvil]

i don't agree with some of your points but i don't think you are a troll

[sand wigeon]

I think the best open world game I’ve played is still Hunter: Call of the Wild?

[opal anvil]

🤷‍♂️

[narrow token]

I actually feel that way about bethesda games.

[sand wigeon]

Well I am

So you’re thinking wrong

[opal anvil]

thanks for clarifying

[sand wigeon]

It’s really the only popular game I’ve played that captures the feeling of just being able to walk around and sightsee

[jovial bane]

idk, GTA for me feels stuck in 2004 so pre oblivion

[sand wigeon]

Since most walking simulators are on rails

I’ve enjoyed other open world games but I’d never go “I enjoyed them FOR the open world”

Even if the open world aided them in some way

[junior oyster]

To each their own. I just like driving around town and being wacky. I should clarify I meant GTA and gta 'clones' too

[narrow token]

Never played gta before 5. Just watched other people do so.

[opal anvil]

i like every open world until it turns into a chore

[junior oyster]

So games like saints row 3 and 4 are pretty nice too

[sand wigeon]

I don’t need to wander around to get to my missions

Just have the mission start after the last one

[opal anvil]

games like gta or cyberpunk i like to just turn on the radio and ride around

[sand wigeon]

It’s not hard

[desert jasper]

I've only played the first 2 GTA games back in the day

[junior oyster]

1 and 2?

Damn

[opal anvil]

saints row 3 was pretty dope but 4 is fun af

more games need to give you superspeed

[junior oyster]

Yea I love the silly town of both games lol

[sand wigeon]

You should play inFamous Second Son

[opal anvil]

it's ps4 one?

[sand wigeon]

Yeah

[desert jasper]

Yeah, the top down ones

[sand wigeon]

We cracked PS4 emulation

So dw

[opal anvil]

[sand wigeon]

How do we define open world btw?

[narrow token]

can you play them with kb and mouse?

[junior oyster]

Damn that makes me feel so old lol

[opal anvil]

this pog is weird
whos that guy?

[sand wigeon]

Because I can think of one game that is served by their open world format

But IDK if it counts

It’s Disco Elysium

[opal anvil]

every sufficiently big and open location is open world to me

[sand wigeon]

I don’t know. I played it on the PS4.

[opal anvil]

last game like that i was playing is wild hearts

[sand wigeon]

I think that’s the one game that had me enjoying going anywhere

But it’s primarily because of the scenes with Kim

[narrow token]

wasn't that the hyper realistic rpg sim game?

[sand wigeon]

Like when you cross the water lock and you find your vehicle and you sit there

[sand wigeon]

…No? I don’t think so?

[desert jasper]

How?

[opal anvil]

it has several locations which you need to load in but they are pretty big and you get to explore a lot
and build ways of traversal there
so every player's world is personalized in a way

[sand wigeon]

I wouldn’t call DE hyper-realistic or a sim

[junior oyster]

I remember playing those games as a kid

[narrow token]

Oh. It was described to me incorrectly then.

[sand wigeon]

Disco Elysium is just a narrative CRPG

[junior oyster]

Back when gta 3 got released I think and they made gta 1 and 2 free to download

[sand wigeon]

With a focus on dialogue

[narrow token]

So like pillars of eternity or tyranny?

[sand wigeon]

Yeah

I’d say it’s a lot like Pillars of Eternity

Pillars of Eternity is still a lot different but it’s a similar vibe

[jovial bane]

if you removed all the combat, yes

[sand wigeon]

Wait

Am I thinking of smth else

[opal anvil]

pillars of eternity goated

[sand wigeon]

I am

[narrow token]

I really, REALLY wanted to get into that game. But I'm too normie-pilled (If that makes sense) now. I grew up in the 90s but I'm too used to modern games. I can't go back.

[twilit mountain]

I mean, also same. I'm trying to get through Skyrim recently, last time I played was on a PS3 (cool 5 hour boot up, Bethesda, very enjoyable). It's still a bit rough sometimes. Cannot enjoy Fallout at alllll though (barring 76, player interaction makes things more fun, who knew)

[opal anvil]

122 hours played but i never beat it 🤦‍♂️

[sand wigeon]

I was thinking of Ken Follet’s video game adaptation of the Pillars of the Earth

Idk what Pillars of Eternity is

[opal anvil]

you should play dwarf fortress ascii version :)

[narrow token]

If they made a game LIKE Pillars of Eternity but with arpg combat I'd be all over it. Probably.

[twilit mountain]

A more "traditional" CRPG, basically

[sand wigeon]

Also go play this

Great adaptation

Good book(s) too if you prefer just reading it too

Ken Follet is a good writer

[narrow token]

I don't think I could enjoy that unfortunately.

[opal anvil]

i think victor vran arpg is this

[twilit mountain]

that's kinda just Divine Divinity and Beyond Divinity to a degree. Pretty old now though so, uh, you've been warned.

[opal anvil]

beyond divinity is kinda on crpg side

[narrow token]

I actually hoped Larian's new game would be like that, but modern. Alas

[opal anvil]

DD is this yeah

[twilit mountain]

Larian kinda sucks imho

[opal anvil]

dam i forgot how great divine divinity is
at least first half

[narrow token]

damn. I'm glad I'm indifferent to that studio because in some circles those are probably fighting words.

[sand wigeon]

Unfortunately, Larian is a terrible studio and BG3 is a terrible game

[narrow token]

Terrible? I can't say I've heard that opinion before.

[opal anvil]

what happened? dos1 was good

[sand wigeon]

God awful.

It released very buggy

[twilit mountain]

Yeah I am used to fighting people over menial nonsense. One of my favorite pastimes, in fact.

[sand wigeon]

It is still unoptimized

The writing is not very good (carried hard by voice actors)

The world is too expansive to the point it all kinda feels unfinished

[twilit mountain]

BG3 released unfinished, unoptimized, and the back half of it is unironically "an amateur D&D DM's notebook written story" quality

[sand wigeon]

There’s a reason people like the first act the most and that’s because it’s the only one that feels finished

To clarify, I wanted to like BG3

I gave it multiple very solid attempts in multiple different ways

[opal anvil]

dam war never changes

[sand wigeon]

Solo, with friends, with family

But there are too many issues

[narrow token]

I didn't finish their games, but I don't have specific problems with them being what they are. I like some parts of them because they're the first time I ever experienced mechanics like them.

[jovial bane]

calling it terrible is definitely the hottest take I've heard

[sand wigeon]

I’ve been saying it since it released

It’s still better than E33 tho

I’ll give it that

[opal anvil]

e33 goated

[junior oyster]

The only game I finished from Larian was D:OS2. I don't know why but the story reeled me in

[twilit mountain]

Industry plant ass video game

[narrow token]

Making the environment part of combat was cool to me. I liked how different elements affected each other in various ways.

[sand wigeon]

Awful game E33 is

[jovial bane]

Larian's weakest part is definitely the writing

[sand wigeon]

You’ll find it better in Divinity: Original Sin 2 sadly

[jovial bane]

barring what Chris Avellone, probably the only good writer in the industry wrote

[sand wigeon]

BG3 is genuinely a downgrade in every way from their previous work

[junior oyster]

Also I'll say it again but Undead skeleton >>>> undead drac

[opal anvil]

bad things about e33 are ui and game doesnt keep track of what you did and didnt very well
everything else is ok to great

[narrow token]

I know, I played D:OS 2 long before bg3.

[twilit mountain]

Writing being the worst part should be a crime in the genre. It's really funny seeing BG3 talk in CRPG dedicated spaces, it gets dragged through the damn mud

[sand wigeon]

Yeah, you understand then

[sand wigeon]

Me when I play the story focused game and the story is bad

It’s like playing a movement shooter not made in the source engine! /s

[opal anvil]

lmao

[sand wigeon]

The visuals are some of the worst of any game I’ve ever played

The writing is god awful

[twilit mountain]

Echo Point Nova is a cracked as hell movement shooter. Please pirate it, the devs work with a neo-fascist.

[sand wigeon]

The story is nonsensical

[narrow token]

I swear, I feel like every game is story focused these days. The ratio is so skewed to me.

[sand wigeon]

The progression isn’t meaningful

[jovial bane]

Actually, I do wonder what game do you think has a good story.
I can name a couple, but they are niche so ...

[opal anvil]

visual tech is ok
artstyle is neat
writing and story are good

[sand wigeon]

It’s kinda crazy how little they did with how much money they were given

[sand wigeon]

They don’t have an art style lol

[opal anvil]

progression is very meaningful
i got from struggling to parry stuff to oneshotting enemy parties

[sand wigeon]

The only parts of the game with any unique style are basically ignored

[sand wigeon]

Sounds like a skill issue?

I kinda walked through the entire game without issue

[narrow token]

what game are we talking about here?

[opal anvil]

you are jealous of my strength

[sand wigeon]

Expedition: 33

[narrow token]

Oh. THAT game. :\

[sand wigeon]

Yeah lol

[opal anvil]

music is superb too

[narrow token]

I gave it 7 hours. I want my time back.

[sand wigeon]

The music is good yes

The only part of that game that deserved any awards

[jovial bane]

I think E33 music is the weakest part

has some good tracks, overall ?

[opal anvil]

french va is great too

[jovial bane]

Same song in 10 variants

[opal anvil]

i enjoyed it a lot

[sand wigeon]

I like the obvious inspiration they took from Vivaldi

[sand wigeon]

I mean that’s just orchestral and classic music

The music is heavily based on romance period music

It has a specific style and repetition to it

[twilit mountain]

You got some bad ARPG takes but I am glad we still find something to agree on. Possibly the most overglazed game I've ever seen in my life.

[sand wigeon]

The fact that it won awards over other games that year astounds me

That year was full of far better games

[narrow token]

I actively just wanted to be able to block any mention of that game while people were glazing it last year. It was exhausting.

[sand wigeon]

That’s how Deias felt with Arcane

[narrow token]

People talked about it like it changed their lives and cured cancer. FFS

[opal anvil]

i only remember silksong and mh wilds releasing that year

[jovial bane]

I will die on the hill that KCD2 should have gotten best RPG, because jRPGs are barely RPGs

[narrow token]

YES! I've been saying this for YEARS

[sand wigeon]

I mean it won awards over Silksong. Silksong. Which is crazy.

[sand wigeon]

Agreed

[opal anvil]

wilds was ass
i didnt play silksong but if it's any similar to 1st hk it's mediocre

[sand wigeon]

You’re

Insane.

Hollow Knight? The game that revolutionized and made mainstream an entire genre?

[narrow token]

Metroidvania? is that the genre?

[sand wigeon]

The game with entirely beautiful hand drawn art?

[opal anvil]

revolutionized how

[narrow token]

I'm actually not clued in

[sand wigeon]

And beautiful usage of parallax?

[opal anvil]

art is good i can't argue with that

but art alone can't carry a game

[sand wigeon]

It defined how Metroidvanias have been designed since its release

[sand wigeon]

And yeah, Metroidvanias

[jovial bane]

I'd say it did, but pretty much all the games that tried to follow up that formula cratered

[narrow token]

Oh yes it can.

[jovial bane]

barring Dead Cells

[sand wigeon]

The last well known one was Symphony of the Night

[sand wigeon]

Roguelite, not metroidvania

Also a bad game

Great art tho

[jovial bane]

then all metroidvania games that tried to follow it up cratered

[sand wigeon]

Suffers from “too much stuff” syndrome thanks to all its expansions

[sand wigeon]

Nah

Nine Sols is great

Ori 2 is great

[twilit mountain]

I could have found a way to enjoy it if I didn't have the entire story dictated to me by everyone around me at the time (who also flew of the handle and borderline harassed anyone who dared breathe "spoilers" in their direction. Hypocrites.)

Now though it's just kinda like... oh boy, the series I have every single twist, character arc, and possibly impactful moment of writing completely spoiled and learned so I literally can't experience the writing as it was meant to be! Awesome!

[junior oyster]

Ori 1 is good. Ori 2 is ok

[opal anvil]

even if we look at indie metroidvanias
guacamelee and knytt underground are better games than hk

[jovial bane]

Ori 2 is a metroidvania ? Then sure

[narrow token]

I need to play Ori 2. I enjoyed Ori 1

[sand wigeon]

It’s so good too :<

I’d love to watch it with you but all the best moments are dulled

[junior oyster]

I can say that for sure about the Ori games. I never truly got into hk but Ori games I feel that 1 is superior to 2 but it has been a while since I last played either

[jovial bane]

I'm still salty that Ubisoft decided to bring Prince of Persia back, tried marrying it with metroidvania

aaand the studio is gone

and franchise is probably dead again

[twilit mountain]

PoP has always been metroidvanias

[sand wigeon]

I mean that game is great

[jovial bane]

tbh it's match made in heaven

[opal anvil]

what was prince of persia before? closest thing i played (i think) is og god of war

[jovial bane]

closing the studio part is the annoying part

[narrow token]

They're basically speedrunning their own downfall anyway. That IP might get absorbed into an entity that treats it better.

[twilit mountain]

Metroidvania. Always has been. It has a few entries that are more action oriented, but they all have been metroidvanias at their core.

[opal anvil]

i see

[jovial bane]

all I want is might and magic franchise to be pried from ubisoft's hands

[twilit mountain]

Well barring Rogue Prince of Persia. That one is in the name.

[jovial bane]

at least after 20 years of waiting Olden Era is a good HoMM game

But M&M RPG is still dead

[twilit mountain]

Please play Prince of Persia: The Lost Crown if you like metroidvanias, it's phenomenal and got so under-recognized

[opal anvil]

why is there no legend of grimrock 3

[jovial bane]

probably because dungeon crawlers are quite niche

[narrow token]

Install Ubisoft Connect or nah....?

[sand wigeon]

There are great games everywhere but people refuse to look anywhere without voices crying out for attention

[jovial bane]

and their latest game is pretty much unknown

[twilit mountain]

No need to for that game afaik. I played it on Switch.

[sand wigeon]

I bet none of you have heard about Sunless Sea

[opal anvil]

i heard

[sand wigeon]

Still one of the best games I’ve ever played

[jovial bane]

I did, I've played it

[desert jasper]

I've the Sands of Time trilogy as physical copy
Too bad the 3rd game doesn't work on anything newer than like... Vista
because the drm software doesn't work

[sand wigeon]

Thank the gods

[jovial bane]

same with cultist simulator

[desert jasper]

I did play Sunless Sea

[jovial bane]

fascinating lore, but it's not the game for everyone

I mean both cultist sim, and sunless sea

[narrow token]

I doubt I'll ever buy a Switch

[sand wigeon]

Just replace Sunless Sea with Lunacid then

[twilit mountain]

They were remaking the 3D games but it got canceled iirc :(

[sand wigeon]

If the game was for everyone it would ‘t be the same game

[junior oyster]

Nope but I have heard and own Sea of Stars

[sand wigeon]

No game should be for everyone

[jovial bane]

true

[sand wigeon]

That is not at all the same thing

That’s an entirely different game

Good game

[opal anvil]

yeah i think even now there are several generations of gaming time worth games. and they keep releasing

[sand wigeon]

But not at all connected

[jovial bane]

I think you've confused it with sunless skies

[sand wigeon]

Sunless Skies isn’t real

[narrow token]

Sea of Stars looked a LOT like Golden Sun when I first saw it.

[sand wigeon]

Don’t mention it to me

[jovial bane]

never did

anyway book of hours is decent

[opal anvil]

honestly depends on how open minded one is

[sand wigeon]

I have five copies of Golden Sun on Gameboy

[junior oyster]

Oh I'm aware I just wanted to drop a good game name out there lol

[narrow token]

AHEM! Crosscode. That is all.

[junior oyster]

I liked crosscode except the main thing about it: puzzles

[jovial bane]

all I can name is good torture devices

[narrow token]

Yeah I get that. I'm TERRIBLE at puzzles.

[jovial bane]

like Wrath of the Righteous

[twilit mountain]

We got a Fate remake like a year ago, so life's good 👍

[opal anvil]

yoo i liked getting decimated in the 1st game by a cloud of flies cuz i didnt have a torch with me

[narrow token]

Fate?

[sand wigeon]

They’re here somewhere

My Golden Sun collection

[twilit mountain]

Giga old dungeon crawler game

[sand wigeon]

I have a sealed box still

[narrow token]

How old is old?

[junior oyster]

The fact the dev doesn't allow you to skip the puzzles is a little annoying to me but I understand because he clearly stated it's a puzzle heavy game

[sand wigeon]

My BG2 PC disc box isn’t doing well though

[jovial bane]

you've scratched only the surface of that torture device

[junior oyster]

I just wanted to play the game for the story lol

[opal anvil]

lmao i parsed this as dark souls on psp

[twilit mountain]

Uh.... 2004 I think?

[narrow token]

Thanks. I'm an old man. I was a teenager then. FML

[jovial bane]

my fav part of bs design of WotR was fan dungeon with enemies that had regeneration (which means enemy cannot die) unless they've took lightning damage

and some enemies were immune to lightning

[sand wigeon]

Goddamn you’re ancient

[opal anvil]

i will return to it 100%... when i learn how to read

[twilit mountain]

Ah, off by a year. 2005.

[sand wigeon]

You were a teenager before I was born lol

You’re officially old

[jovial bane]

you needed to know god damn obscure pathfinder rules that CdG bypasses it

or take a specific feat

🫠

[twilit mountain]

But yeah, pretty influential game in the long run, glad to see it got remade

[opal anvil]

stuff like this can be very fun if game doesnt punish experimentation

[jovial bane]

oh it does

[narrow token]

Yeah I was alive before people had internet in every home. We had to memorize our friends' phone numbers.

[jovial bane]

if you play on harder difficulties and want to make a tank ?

[opal anvil]

cant you f5 f8

[twilit mountain]

Y'all should play Cassette Beasts :)

[sand wigeon]

I mean… I was also alive before everyone had internet lol

[jovial bane]

if you take heavy armor and shield and call it a tank, you are bad at this game

[opal anvil]

no way im playing a game like this on a harder difficulty until i learn it well

[jovial bane]

why did you think heavy armored warrior with a shield is a tank ?

[sand wigeon]

Even people today don’t all have internet

[jovial bane]

Want a tank ? A horse

[sand wigeon]

That’s not an old person thing

[narrow token]

Yeah I misspoke.

[opal anvil]

how does it work? horse gives perks/stat boosts?

[narrow token]

Pokémon without buying a Nintendo product?

[twilit mountain]

I didn't have internet in my house until 2012, and I had real limited access until 2014. I had dial-up in 2016-2017 for some reason

[narrow token]

Why have I not heard of this game until now?

[jovial bane]

basically they get more armor class, especially if you raise their int (which game does not recommend for some god forsaken reason) to teach it better defensive fighting stance

horse will easily have like +10 to even +12 more AC than "a tank"

[twilit mountain]

Yyyyyeah let's go with that. Definitely doesn't get esoteric and weird super quickly. No lovecraftian influence in it at all, I swear.

[opal anvil]

wait a literal horse? i thought you meant let tank mount the horse

[narrow token]

Don't threaten me with a good time.

[jovial bane]

don't, because medium is kind of hard, core is defintiely hard, above is torture

[twilit mountain]

Give it a whirl, it's gnarly

[narrow token]

I need a Steam Deck

This looks like a PERFECT Steam Deck game.

[twilit mountain]

If you want a completely different direction of game in every form, Outpath is a good relaxing time.

[jovial bane]

Yes, and let tank increase the AC of said horse. Your fighter "tank" is dealing damage, their horse is tanking

[opal anvil]

even pillars of eternity i only play i think most easiest or 2nd easiest

[narrow token]

I'm not trying to relive my childhood with a handheld. Nope, not me.

[jovial bane]

fair, because Pillars have garbage system

[twilit mountain]

If you want a game that will make you want to put a hole in your monitor, play Everhood

[opal anvil]

i progress pretty well then some dragon wrecks my party

[sand wigeon]

If you want the best game ever created ever

Play Roadwarden

[opal anvil]

this is certainly a strat

[sand wigeon]

Everyone. Go play Roadwarden.

Now.

[junior oyster]

I have that game on my ignore list 🤣

[twilit mountain]

If you want to experience personal everlasting hell play Crypt of The Necrodancer. If it isn't hard enough for you innately, unlock the hidden character that has every single unlockable downside with none of the upsides.

[opal anvil]

yooo i like playing that guy that turns game into a, well, turnbased game

[sand wigeon]

WHAT WHY

[jovial bane]

I hate the crypt of the necrodancer, I get frustrated with how badly I play, but I torture myself for hours anyway

[junior oyster]

Too much text

[jovial bane]

0/10, great game

[twilit mountain]

This is the intended experience

[sand wigeon]

You have a failing hypothalamus

[opal anvil]

same

[sand wigeon]

We know

[junior oyster]

I did a search for the game and realised it was on my ignore list 🤣

[twilit mountain]

COTN is unironically considered one of the hardest games to legitimately 100% (not just get all trophies, but that's real high up there too)

[opal anvil]

it was on my wishlist

[sand wigeon]

I bet you think reading is boring too

[opal anvil]

but at this point half of steam on my wishlist

[jovial bane]

Why didn't I add roadwarden to wishlist when I was browsing games ?

Anyway, fixed

[sand wigeon]

Roadwarden, Cultist Simulator, S. and World of Darkness are my BIGGEST writing inspirations

[narrow token]

The games I like are in this narrow band of normie games and almost mainstream but not quite indies.

[junior oyster]

If you mean me, then I guess I do. I've read a few books here and then when I was a kid (horrible histories, horrible science etc) but never really got into fiction aside from comics

[narrow token]

You couldn't get me to play cod or gta though. I'd rather gouge my eyes out with a rusted spoon.

[jovial bane]

tbf those are the mainstream normie games, so you've already excluded them

[junior oyster]

Can I get you to play StS2 though? 🥹

[sand wigeon]

And this is because you failed to develop intelligence

Congrats

[narrow token]

probably not.

[junior oyster]

Boooo

[twilit mountain]

If you want misery in video game form you can play Cruelty Squad (it hurts to play)

[opal anvil]

i like most of the games i played
or rather can have fun in them

[junior oyster]

Shit you have some really awful takes huh

[sand wigeon]

I just hate you tbh

[jovial bane]

In what sense ? Story hurts, or gameplay is a torture device like with owlcat games ?

[sand wigeon]

Gameplay is a torture device

[twilit mountain]

Look at the Steam page and come back to me

[opal anvil]

lmao

[junior oyster]

Ok bye

[jovial bane]

the latter lmao

I've just seen the screenshots

[twilit mountain]

Everything about it is pain

[sand wigeon]

This is a normal Cruelty Squad screenshot

This is a screenshot of normal gameplay

[jovial bane]

I'm gettign system shock flashbacks

[narrow token]

the color is... what is that?

[sand wigeon]

Idk, I’m colorblind

You tell me

[opal anvil]

96% people liked that
this much people can't like the pain right...?

[narrow token]

It's all over the place.

[jovial bane]

I have a feeling system shock is a very easy, enjoyable, chill game compared to that

[sand wigeon]

Oh it’s a fantastic game

Everyone that can play it should play it

One of the best games I’ve ever played

[narrow token]

I'm reminded of ps1-era games.

[sand wigeon]

I am being very genuine

[opal anvil]

rude to ps1 games

[twilit mountain]

Cruelty Squad is genuinely good. Uh. It is also just... a rough experience.

[opal anvil]

like kenshi 🤔

[narrow token]

No, I just remember what ps1-era games looked like, fidelity-wise.

[opal anvil]

fair

[sand wigeon]

The story of this game is that in an absurdist post-dystopia dystopia you play as an assassin in a world where printing a new body for someone takes about $2

Also it’s eldritch horror

[jovial bane]

Sorry for a tangent, but nothing triggers me more than when people call graphics "that it looks like mobile game", god damn it, have those people seen how average mobile gacha game looks like nowadays ?

[sand wigeon]

Also it’s an immersive sim

[jovial bane]

ofc it is

[opal anvil]

lmao

[sand wigeon]

Also it’s a roguelite movement shooter

[narrow token]

I've seen people say that about LE. I don't see it.

[jovial bane]

somehow one glance at a screenshot, and I can tell it's IM sim

[opal anvil]

yeah some gachas are gorgeous

[sand wigeon]

Arknights: Endfield my beloved

[jovial bane]

the best looking Unity game there is

[opal anvil]

i dig zzz style and music a lot

[narrow token]

There are so many gachas that have come out in the last 5 years I can't keep track of them all

[opal anvil]

probably for the better tbh

[sand wigeon]

You have the good ones and the bad ones

[junior oyster]

I've never played even 1 xD

[opal anvil]

woah good gachas?

[sand wigeon]

Arknights: Endfield goes in the good category

[narrow token]

Doesn't help that the art designs looks so similar.

[sand wigeon]

They exist yeah

[narrow token]

To me anyway

[opal anvil]

you mean ones with private server?

[sand wigeon]

Limbus Company, Arknights, Arknights: Endfield are the ones I would say are best

[twilit mountain]

If you have a desire to get your teeth kicked in on repeat you should play Into The Breach! Good luck.

[narrow token]

I don't have the brain chemistry to be able to enjoy gacha games.

[sand wigeon]

Arknights struggles a little here but Limbus Company and Endfield give out free pulls basically every day

[jovial bane]

depends who you ask, but I think it does go into good category

[sand wigeon]

And you don’t even need the pulls to progress

[opal anvil]

arknights is pretty fun
limbus didnt quite hook me gameplay-wise
endfield i didnt play

[sand wigeon]

The base units can manage

[sand wigeon]

Limbus is very, very complex

[opal anvil]

not being able to get every character is defo a pain point for me 😭

they look too cool

[sand wigeon]

That game takes a long time to progress in

I don’t recommend it to people

[jovial bane]

I am not touching limbus with a 10 foot pole, I've tried library of ruina

[narrow token]

yeah same. I learned my lesson with Genshin Impact.

[jovial bane]

I can see what esoteric bs it can be

[opal anvil]

i'm sure it is but early game is pretty braindead

[sand wigeon]

Yeah

[opal anvil]

ig that's fair for every gacha tho

[twilit mountain]

If you have ever thought that normal fighting games just aren't good enough, we have this funny thing called Lethal League, where they took fighting games and asked "what if it was also extremely violent tennis? And it had a banging soundtrack?"

[sand wigeon]

Did you say League

[narrow token]

What would SSB:Melee be categorized as?

[twilit mountain]

I'll beat you

[opal anvil]

is this jet set radio-like

[sand wigeon]

Did you say “Cain, Cain, I want to play League with you!”

[twilit mountain]

Platform fighter

[sand wigeon]

“You’re just so good at Ahri mid that I can’t help but want to play!”

‘Cause that’s what I heard

[narrow token]

Oh. Then that's the only game I played against friends that I actually liked.

[twilit mountain]

Not at all in gameplay but definitely has music and visual inspirations from it

[jovial bane]

you can call it a fighting game, but never say it near the fighting game players

[sand wigeon]

Does anyone want to see my Ahri collection

[narrow token]

And THAT is why I asked.

[opal anvil]

oh yeah i meant that

i like smash a lot for the inputs
no finger breaking 🙏

[twilit mountain]

SSB as a series is a fighting game, it's just a poorly made one (no offense, and particularly from a competitive game perspective)

[sand wigeon]

Here’s my Ahri collection

Ignore the Vi

[narrow token]

No offense taken here. SSB isn't part of my personality or ego.

[vagrant topaz]

Was about to make a joke on this

[twilit mountain]

I forced Cain to remove the Vi's from their deck, it's a bullshit card with bullshit rulings and I hate it

[opal anvil]

there is LoL card game?

[sand wigeon]

Yeah so I put them there since I didn’t want to sort them into my binder lol

[twilit mountain]

Riftbound

[sand wigeon]

And it’s the best card game I’ve ever played

[twilit mountain]

Been around since about October

[opal anvil]

ohh

[sand wigeon]

Technically there are three League card games though

[twilit mountain]

It's good

[sand wigeon]

Riftbound is the only physical one

[twilit mountain]

Play it

[narrow token]

A little bit of a deep cut, but the Yu Yu Hakusho card game was super fun. Also my favorite anime. Fight me.

[vagrant topaz]

Rift found
Rune terra
And ?

[opal anvil]

i like LoL autochess but pr0 gamers always destroy me

[twilit mountain]

You can play it online if you want (though you have to manually resolve like all your triggers), Riftatlas

[sand wigeon]

And the Shadow smth one

[twilit mountain]

Riot has confirmed they will make official digital Riftbound eventually

So

That's cool

[jovial bane]

I gave Legends of Runeterra a shot, after that I am not touching Riftbound

[twilit mountain]

Very different game. Entirely different.

[vagrant topaz]

Would you recommend it for someone trying to get into an online tcg?

[jovial bane]

so they say, but my trust is record low

[twilit mountain]

If you have no desire to play MTG this is the next best TCG imho

[sand wigeon]

Mb just two

[narrow token]

I wish From Software would revisit Otogi: Myth of Demons. I liked that more than the souls games they became famous for

[sand wigeon]

There is no online Riftbound yet

They said it is smth that will happen

[vagrant topaz]

Rift atlas

[sand wigeon]

But rn there is an unofficial way

Yeah

[opal anvil]

i never played it but it looks interesting

ngl bad fromsoft ninja gaiden looks interesting too

[twilit mountain]

RiftAtlas is nice because you can just build whatever deck you want

[sand wigeon]

Reboot King’s Field and my soul is yours Hidetaki Miyazaki

[opal anvil]

what if they add open world

[narrow token]

For its time, it was one of my favorite games. Not too punishing, but very intriguing.

[twilit mountain]

Hint; run away from orange players right now, Dazzling Aurora is a nightmare

[vagrant topaz]

I like the lol universeand Mtg feels too big, a big daunting

[sand wigeon]

King’s Field is open world already though…

[twilit mountain]

Fair tbh. MTG is a headache to learn from scratch

[opal anvil]

old hearthstone was pretty easy to get into
idk how it is now

[jovial bane]

now ? it's definitely nowhere that easy

[vagrant topaz]

Not sure on the QoL in rift atlas since it looks like a fan made platform

[opal anvil]

last time i played was when jade druid was the shit

[vagrant topaz]

You mentioned having to manually do the trigger etc...

[narrow token]

MTG was a sick game in the early-mid 2000s (Last time I played).

[twilit mountain]

Riftbound takes like, two matches to get the basics down, and it's very much a "things do what they say they do" game (this is their hard rule, card text supersedes rules text)

[opal anvil]

was it well implemented?

[sand wigeon]

Well. I mean.

It is a physical game

[twilit mountain]

It's hell now. I love it. It is hell.

[sand wigeon]

You do that IRL

[jovial bane]

TBH it's been a while since i've played it, but last time I checked games were regularly over on T5

[sand wigeon]

I don’t think you know much about King’s Field lol

[narrow token]

Are artifacts still fun?

[jovial bane]

No, I don't mean just the hunter decks, or demon hunter decks

[narrow token]

And did they ever reign in Slivers?

[twilit mountain]

Sure, we get cool mew ones all the time

[opal anvil]

you are correct

[sand wigeon]

King’s Field is an open world exploration focused dungeon crawler

It’s whole thing is being open world

[twilit mountain]

....yes-ish. Standard they're basically completely gone. Modern/Commander they can still be an absolute menace.

[sand wigeon]

It was one of the first open world games

[narrow token]

So like d4 if the open world was good?

[sand wigeon]

Uhhh no

[narrow token]

I'm trying to get a picture

[sand wigeon]

This is an old game series

[opal anvil]

like elden ring

[sand wigeon]

No

Nothing like Elden Ring

[opal anvil]

if i didnt know what kings field is your description would make me confuse them

[sand wigeon]

This is King’s Field 1

[jovial bane]

they were pretty dead until modern horizons printing new ones, and modern horizons is very much an overpowered by design set

[twilit mountain]

King's Field is a first person non-linear exploration dungeon crawler.

[opal anvil]

there is mp AND magic

hardcore

[sand wigeon]

King’s Field does not focus on combat or anything like that

If is mostly wandering around halls

It is great

[jovial bane]

@narrow token read this menace

[sand wigeon]

If anyone is looking to play a game very similar to King’s Field but modern

[narrow token]

So do you have to run away from everything then?

[sand wigeon]

Go play Lunacid

[twilit mountain]

WE DO NOT TALK ABOUT MODERN HORIZONS, LOOK AWAY, GO GET FUNNY DRAGONS AND INCREMENTS INSTEAD

[opal anvil]

exile!!!

[sand wigeon]

Nah, you can kill things, but the combat is Left click, slowly walk backward, left click

[twilit mountain]

Okay tbf, this is banned in non-Modern rulesets

[sand wigeon]

There’s magic but it’s bad in every King’s Field game

[narrow token]

oops

[opal anvil]

closest i played was devil spire
not sure if legend of grimrock is close

[narrow token]

That's pretty disgusting. Geez

[sand wigeon]

Look up Iron Pineapple King’s Field on YouTube if you’re interested in learning more

He has a really good series

[opal anvil]

no spoilers ❌

i will play myself... some day

[sand wigeon]

Good

Luck

These games require so much work to even boot

[opal anvil]

werent they on ps1 first or something

[twilit mountain]

Another old game recommendation out of nowhere; the Oddworld series. Goated platformer series. Horrified me as a child.

[sand wigeon]

The engine is the issue

[jovial bane]

I think I know why it looks like grimrock to you, because it screams Wizardry to me

[opal anvil]

oddworld still lowkey horrifies me

[sand wigeon]

The King’s Field engine is a mess

[twilit mountain]

It should yeah

Mmm funny alien ribcages and meat grinders. Lovely.

[jovial bane]

And Grimrock is very much a Wizardry nostalgia game

[twilit mountain]

Smog filled industrial wasteland full of decay and slavery. Incredible.

[opal anvil]

wait wizardry got gacha recently... that wizardry right?

[sand wigeon]

No

[twilit mountain]

Not new game, will kick your ass for hours: One Step From Eden. Play it. Suffer.

[opal anvil]

i mean same series