📚┃off-topic

[gilded elm]

Do you mean this? Because it's not the same thing

[ebon meadow]

Oh they moved it for Poe 2

[torn dust]

yeah, those camera rotation effects are cinematic... i don't seee any user-camera-rotation

[gilded elm]

"Camera Rotation" is actually being able to rotate your camera at will

[torn dust]

though i would totally use it if it was in there!

[ebon meadow]

They did move it after setting tabs got reworked I just can't remember where

[gilded elm]

PoE actually specifically doesn't allow camera rotation mainly because their engine is optimized around the single perspective.

[ebon meadow]

Wait that's different from Poe 1 the rotation there is spesificly for areas that has it inbuild

[torn dust]

yes, there is some "cinematic" camera movement... like in certain boss fights and areas

we were talking about free arbitrary rotation the camera, like in vrising or grim dawn

[gilded elm]

PoE1 doesn't have free camera rotation, it's all directed.

[torn dust]

right

[gilded elm]

The lead 3D developer for PoE actually gives a tech talk related to this subject.

[ebon meadow]

Like vilenta area was actually annoying to have it one because it took u like 7-10 sec to get up the stairs without bumping in to walls

[gilded elm]

Their engine is specifically optimized around the idea that the player almost always only views the game from a single perspective.

[torn dust]

im not sure i would listen to a graphics tech talk from poe devs.. this game is great, and the graphics are pretty, but this engine is incredibly inefficient

[gilded elm]

PoE1 is incredibly efficient, especially when it comes to particle volume.

[ebon meadow]

Witch one out of 3 ?

[torn dust]

the witch SRS build ground my 3060 to 30fps...... which is just sad..... though it did make me finally finish building my 4080 PC, so there is that

[gilded elm]

PoE2 gets a pass for being unoptimized

[torn dust]

ya, it's not an issue, this game is so friggin good

[ebon meadow]

What ? The partical issue since the blood rain log in screen is actually the worst screw up out of game lol

[torn dust]

yeah, the poe engine particle implementation is horrificly bad and slow

[gilded elm]

PoE1 on the other hand, is extremely optimized. The disconnects people experience in PoE1 from particle density isn't a client issue, but a server issue with limits.

[ebon meadow]

Some smart ass thought that adding sound ques to every single partical made the whole pc lagg

[torn dust]

i will forgive the graphics performance though, this game is lit...

[ebon meadow]

And they kept that until deli league

[torn dust]

but i feel for anyone who wants to run it on a handheld anytime soon

[gilded elm]

The most insane PoE1 builds that can run without a server crash are currently impossible in any other ARPG on the market right now.

[torn dust]

wow, just got my first tower, that's pretty cool

[gilded elm]

In terms of visual performance.

PoE1 has mastered particle performance when compared to any other ARPG right now.

[ebon meadow]

That I agree with there's no other game on market that lets u have this density and this effects without bricking Ur pc

[torn dust]

other arpgs dont avoid these things because of visual performance, they avoid them because it's a nonsense siesure inducing light show

?

other games avoid this density of effects because it's gawdy, not because of performance

[ebon meadow]

But the partical +sound issue hammering ram was stupid

[gilded elm]

No they very much avoid particle pollution because of performance.

[torn dust]

unreal engine can easily do 100x the effects of POE

[gilded elm]

Obviously there's some thematic concerns there, but skill particles are always a performance concern in every ARPG.

[torn dust]

lol??

I'm a 50 year old retired computer engineer who formerly worked at 3dfx (the precursor competitor to nvidia) on 3d... what you are sayign is plain wrong

[ebon meadow]

Hmmm I would discus this but I have no idea what unreal can handle

[torn dust]

let me get you a video so you can see what modern engines and particle effects can do

[gilded elm]

Particle volume is also a CPU issue, not really a GPU issue.

[ebon meadow]

It's not what they can optimise today it's how a normal pc can handle it

Yea it's defenetly the CPU thing sorry if I stated GPU

It's how u process all those particals with volume of data

[torn dust]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CqXKSyAPWZY&list=PLwCxfHuD_V4okPBKjogRbArjllfQbfPTv&index=123&t=332s

[gilded elm]

In fact, most games are largely single-threaded. I wouldn't be surprised if PoE's multithreading is mostly for particles.

[ebon meadow]

Let me zoom home just grab some food lol

[torn dust]

msot of the partifcles that kill POE FPS are purely visual and could be entirely on the GPU

but they probably dont have a GPU particle implementation

the CPU can easily handle the ~30-200 actual projectiles or aoe spawns... it's when each one of them spawns a visual particle effect that is in fact another 30, that we're talking about potentially 6000-20000 particles... which is trivially easy for a GPU to do, and even not horrible for a CPU to do, but computing and rending it efficiently requires modern techniques that POE is not using

but we forgive them, because they are genius game designers

[gilded elm]

Performance is easy to demonstrate in a vacuum, harder in an actual product. I've not seen any tech demo that has been able to demonstrate the level of particle density in concurrence with game logic on the scale of PoE and its most visually polluted builds.

[torn dust]

again, this is not because it's a technical problem.. this is because there are no other game designers who think those visuals are GOOD

(and honestly, most players don;t think they are good either)

[gilded elm]

Blizzard also gave a talk at some point I believe in which they explained the client-side performance implications of visual density.

[torn dust]

that is because Blizzard targets minspec machines from 2010

[gilded elm]

Consoles were cited as a factor, IIRC.

[torn dust]

Since they introduced WoW, their goal was to run on 80% of ALL PCs installed, not 80% of PCs sold in the last 3 years like most game

[gilded elm]

Which PoE is also targeting as well

[torn dust]

older consoles certainly have limitations, modern PS5 and Xbox are fully capable of insane particle density

[gilded elm]

Nah this was with D4

But it was more than just particles, but also entities as well, which obviously has a heavier CPU impact than just particles alone.

As entities have client-side logic, albeit minimal, there's still basic stuff like collisions and whatnot.

[torn dust]

yeah, most game engines (Even unreal) are still based on object-mobiles.. which have horrible cache effects and don't scale well

the term "entity" kind of means something different, because of Entity architectures....

[gilded elm]

In the most abstract sense, not as in an entity component system

[jade jackal]

The word used often in arpg game code is actors

[torn dust]

Unity and Unreal and almost every game engine uses randomly allocated objects for mobiles in a game, which has a practical limitation somewhere around 300-600 because of cpu cache effects

[gilded elm]

Actor is more appropriate yes

[torn dust]

yes

[jade jackal]

Actor is what blizzard for example uses in their code

[torn dust]

"entity" typically refers to systems where you store actor information in packed arrays.. like Unity ECS or Unreal Apparatus plugin.. when this is done, the CPU can handle tens of thousands of actors

bepuphysics is a good example of what a CPU can do when the data is reorganized into entity arrays for cache efficiency

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjtwSq3u6Dg

bepu is a 100% CPU physics implementation that handles an insane number of actors with full collision physics

[gilded elm]

Right, Entity Component Systems are generally how you manage instances of game objects, whether those are actors or something else. But it's all semantics.

[tawny sand]

isn't this supposed to give me more points? why does it say unlock?

[gilded elm]

Blizzard specifically struggled with optimizing D4's performance to support an increased density of actors.

And that's when the density was very low.

[ebon meadow]

heavy rain with sound qs to every partical on login screen xd this is the same issue when tarkov releases a new map and it rains

[torn dust]

(packed array) entity systems are the modern way to handle game actors, but 95% of games do NOT use them, including POE

[ebon meadow]

why

[torn dust]

Unity and Unreal have been trying to transition to entity packed array organization for years, but it's complicated

it's just easier to program for object-actors

[gilded elm]

Most game devs don't even use Unreal's Asset Chunks. Tired of whenever a 50mb update comes out for one of my Unreal games but it spends 5 minutes patching some big ass 80gb asset or something.

[torn dust]

lol so true

most devs are rightfully focused on fun game first... otherwise they die 🙂

OMG i love that POE2 has pause

[gilded elm]

Server-side pause, now that I've experienced it... is kind of a great idea IMO

Especially for a game that a lot of people play solo

Space Marine 2 also recently added this and it's been great.

[torn dust]

im finallyu in maps, and wow the monk gameplay is so lit

not only is server-side pause great, but 90% of the crashes i've experienced in POE2 have just been restart->login->resume right there

[ebon meadow]

welcome to dark side we have cookies and kicks (well staff combos but yea xdd)

[gilded elm]

Yeah, they managed to actually turn the idea of solo online play into a benefit with server-side pausing.

[torn dust]

my monk is frost ice-strike, and on harder content i use a very in-and out stule with wave-of-frost to free, glacial cascade to explose them, and diving in with staggering palm and bell to fight the chunker enemies

[ebon meadow]

i do like this relog start at zone waypoint thing in POE2 and we dont have to redo all the zone again , even better when mosters respawn so u get that extra chunk of XP

[gilded elm]

Right now you can also farm rare monsters over and over with just Respawn at Checkpoint if you destroy their corpse.

[ebon meadow]

yes 🙂

[gilded elm]

You can either shatter from freeze, or you can just slot in a gem like Unearth

Great for farming rares in campaign

[ebon meadow]

not sure if u want to get ideas i would check Scrys build

Ziz has a guide update on that

the shatering clear is amazing

[torn dust]

yeah its crazy

[ebon meadow]

and be able to freeeze boses to is great

[torn dust]

herald of frost shatter

yup

[gilded elm]

Shatter is OP, as it also nullifies any on-death effects

[torn dust]

i saw his video early on scrys frost... and it inspired me to try it.. iv'e been roling it myself but its the same idea

it doesn't nullify on death effects for rares

[ebon meadow]

shatering noice was always my favorite sound in poe1 lol the fact they actually carryed it out to poe2 is great

[gilded elm]

tf? it does in PoE1 and that would be dumb if it's not true in PoE2 lol

[ebon meadow]

u crit as well arent u ?

[torn dust]

i dont have enough crit yet, so no

[gilded elm]

destroying the monster's corpse is supposed nullify on death effects, unless they moved away from that in PoE2

[torn dust]

im elemental/attack/pen

i have seen many on death effects for rares that were frozen, but who knows, maybe they didn't shatter, ill try to watch more carefully

[ebon meadow]

the treshold is very small and compact for now i douibt it will stay like this but some chance will trigger a lot

[gilded elm]

Hm

[torn dust]

it is true that rares are often not frozen when they die

[ebon meadow]

nono on death efects stays yea and Empy have just complain about it to

they need to be downtuned for real

[torn dust]

im probably close to having enough points to experiemnt with crit... but at low levels i just went for max stun/freeze

[gilded elm]

Ooh, so it's just a PoE2 thing since he's complaining I guess

[torn dust]

so i basically freeze them, then stune them, then freeze them

boss fights are mega easy

[ebon meadow]

yea

[gilded elm]

That's laaame. I hope GGG changes it

Shattering should cancel death effects

[ebon meadow]

they should or we l have another monsters dd drama

[torn dust]

they are nerfing re-freeze in the next patch... though i dont think that will affect this build much

[ebon meadow]

freeeze them then bell them then freeze again 100% mitigation from all damage sources apart from ground efects

[torn dust]

i played this build until around act 5 hardly even using wave-of-frost ... but now that i'm using it, it's styupid good.. i think i could do a hardcore monk based on this

and i throw in frost bomb for exposure on bosses

[ebon meadow]

yup , same thing here

the exposure plus res pen with bell is stupid damage

thats probably only damage to come close to ignite atm

it just chunks single target

[torn dust]

i have been considering trying to work ignite+ignite death explosion into the build

[ebon meadow]

i m thinking more of ignite to shoked enemy

[torn dust]

it would basically be herald of frost explosion + ignite explision, so literally everything would die in trash all the time

i don't like the RNG on shock

[ebon meadow]

does the target takes more damage wile shocked afects dots ?

[torn dust]

good quesiton, it says more dmg , so i assume so

[gilded elm]

Indirectly, from the hit, probably. Assuming the DoT in question is an ailment. But also not sure

[ebon meadow]

yea i know initial hit is afected i m thinking of ticks

[gilded elm]

That would be double dipping, I don't think it would.

[torn dust]

ohh good point... dot dmg is based on the hit dmg.. so probably when the hit dmg is higher is just sacles the DOT higher but the dot itself doesn't double dip... (guessing)

[ebon meadow]

would be to broken lol i doubt it my self but its dots u never know

depending on dot base it might on phys dot like bleeding but the shock ailiment or even chill i dont think it would

[torn dust]

i just really like how with wave-of-frost and glacial cascade combo, i can do really good aoe dmg while keeping them at medium distance... makes ahrder content easier to tackle confidently without deaths

[gilded elm]

Speaking of... I need to look into using weapon sets to maybe try and have 2 different specs, one for single target and another for AoE

[ebon meadow]

wave of frost is a VERY good utility for going out of combat aoe

[torn dust]

on my first monk i used a secondary bow with escape arrow to avoid getting body blocked inside mobs

it worked really well, but after i learned the game i don't really need it

i'm currently experimenting with using a shield secondary

[ebon meadow]

palm to go in wave to get out theres u flicker that actually dont break ur fingers or eye sight xdd

[gilded elm]

Being able to automatically swap between 2 passive trees seems very powerful, need to think about how best to utilize it.

[torn dust]

yeah, there are just times (especially before dodgeroll buff) where if you palm in i would get stuck inside a pile of mobs and couldn't get out

[ebon meadow]

i know it sounds amazing and we l have builds that abusing this but for a normal player lets be real its double the buttons and hard gameplay

[torn dust]

that is why POE2 is so good

poe1 is so boring to me

[gilded elm]

Maybe, but I already use 7 buttons haha

Sigil of Power -> Orb of Storms -> Flame Wall -> Conductivity and a mix of Ball Lightning, Lightning Warp and Spark.

[torn dust]

i mostly use ice-strike, wave of frost, glacial cascade, hand of chullua, staggering palm.... with an occasional bell or unbound avatar ..

so it's 5 skills + dodge roll in the main combat

[torn dust]

wow, that loks like a poe1 bar

[twilit mountain]

Hey it works

[gilded elm]

Nah still has too many skills to be a PoE1 bar

[ebon meadow]

exactly give me my ed contagion back

[twilit mountain]

I get ripped to shreds sometimes but my res aren't capped and trade is cooked lmao

[ebon meadow]

i have no res

i just throw bodys in

[twilit mountain]

Uusally because I was stupid and decided I should run a map with effectively like 12 mods on it lmfao

[ebon meadow]

and i m probably under 60 deaths still

[torn dust]

46 fire, 20 cold, 34 lightining, 10 chaos.... in tier 1 maps

[ebon meadow]

is there chaos base mobs in acts ?

[torn dust]

127 deaths... though i think i could almost hardcore this build if i was a little more careful

[ebon meadow]

i dont think u even need chaos res atm

[torn dust]

there is some chaos dmg in acts

[twilit mountain]

Can run T15-T16 as long as I don't juice too much

[torn dust]

that is some fat energy shield

[gilded elm]

I feel pretty good in T4's atm

[twilit mountain]

It's effectively double in maps, Grim Feast is funny

Also my gear is pretty mid so it will go up

[gilded elm]

Phys obviously is a problem, but it's enough buffer to survive most hits. I just play cagey

[twilit mountain]

Invoker gaming based

[ebon meadow]

invokers unite

[torn dust]

i thought poision dmg was chaos too

[twilit mountain]

It is

[ebon meadow]

its a bit og it yea

[twilit mountain]

It's chaos damage over time, but the damage is (at least baseline) based on the phys + chaos damage of the hit that inflicts it

[ebon meadow]

poison damage is chaos and phys dot

[twilit mountain]

xdd

[torn dust]

the main chaos i noticved in campaign was act 3 in the bone-tusk zone, where the mages shoot chaos artiillary

[twilit mountain]

No just chaos

Phys is bleed

[gilded elm]

The entire poison damage is chaos only

[twilit mountain]

^

[gilded elm]

But phys can inflict poison

[torn dust]

holy what... that poision magnitude line is huge

[ebon meadow]

did they change from poe1 ?

[twilit mountain]

No

[gilded elm]

Always been that way

[ebon meadow]

no it didnt

[twilit mountain]

It did

It has always been like that

[torn dust]

poision is just chaos.... but chaos dmg does not proc poision, it's a separate proc chance... just like burning

[twilit mountain]

Like, I can tell you for at LEAST 8 years poison has always been chaos damage over time only

[gilded elm]

Any Phys or Chaos hit with Chance to Poison could always inflict Poison stacks, but the damage over time itself was always Chaos.

[ebon meadow]

anyone can tell u that played poe for some years not all posion damage is chaos i m sorry

[twilit mountain]

Brother what

https://www.poewiki.net/wiki/Poison

Here you go

[junior oyster]

Poison is chaos only

[twilit mountain]

Go read patch notes

[tawny sand]

does chaos damage have a color associated with it? I know green is poison, but are like the purple stuff chaos?

[gilded elm]

Might be confusing that Physical damage can cause Poison.

But the Poison damage from that is still Chaos

[torn dust]

i thought poision was chaos only in poe1

[twilit mountain]

It is.

[junior oyster]

Yeo

[twilit mountain]

The only thing that changed in PoE2 is how the damage is calculated

[torn dust]

"all poision dmg is chaos, but not all chaos dmg is poision"

[ebon meadow]

phys and chaos literally in first lines

[twilit mountain]

Jfc

[ebon meadow]

this

[twilit mountain]

Am i getting language barriered, I don't understand

[gilded elm]

Physical Damage can cause Poison, but all Poison damage is Chaos damage.

[gilded elm]

I'm on the same page as you. You're right.

[twilit mountain]

My guy

The DAMAGE of POISON is CHAOS

It is BASED on the HIT

[ebon meadow]

but it doesnt get scaled by inc choas damage

[torn dust]

right, that line says that the phys and chaos of your hit calculates the amount of the poision, but the poision itself is chaos

[gilded elm]

I don't think anyone is saying it does.

[twilit mountain]

If your hit is scaled by chaos, the poison will scale

Simple

[narrow token]

Why make poison so confusing? Just make poison a damage type. Wtf is chaos supposed to BE anyway?

[gilded elm]

Right. Physical Damage obv doesn't scale from Chaos mods.

So if your Poison comes from a Physical Hit, then the Chaos mods don't scale it.

[ebon meadow]

thats fair i tot u guys were saying it can be scaled by pure chaos damage

[twilit mountain]

Actually

Pure chaos does affect it

You can test in PoB

[ebon meadow]

it does but the fraction of the damage

it does get scaled but only a little bit

[twilit mountain]

Aight. I'm gonna disengage from this now.

[ebon meadow]

this is poe nothing is simple

like phys damage can also scale poison

[gilded elm]

Chaos is just Chaos I think, kind of a catch-all damage type.

[narrow token]

Obviously.

It's very confusing imo

[gilded elm]

Usually anything purple or green = chaos lmao

[ebon meadow]

thats the good part of it , plenty of no brain games out there lol and i come from COD lmao

i never took poison as chaos damge on its own though

defences dont metigate that

[narrow token]

I think there's a good middle ground between no brain and Alakazam IQ

[ebon meadow]

there is . its LE

thats why we here lol

[narrow token]

What, in off topic? Lol

[tawny sand]

grim dawn's isn't that confusing

[ebon meadow]

now necrotic damage overview )i m joking)

[gilded elm]

Just remember that you can't make a game for everyone. Every group you cater to inevitably detracts from another. It's okay that a game does not cater to every possible group.

[tawny sand]

there's just a lot of resistances

[ebon meadow]

Grim is good

[twilit mountain]

I'll be honest, the complexity of PoE is a bit overexaggerated. It's complicated, but it's not "you need a PhD to understand this game" by any means.

[narrow token]

Grim Dawn is also older than dirt.

[twilit mountain]

wha

Grim Dawn is newer than POE1 wdym

[ebon meadow]

its just slow

thats about it apart from that its a good game

[narrow token]

Slow, looks old as the big bang

[ebon meadow]

theres mods for that to fix it

[gilded elm]

The complexity is decent, but the volume of "complex" or semi-complex systems and mechanics is the real difficulty curve.

[narrow token]

I doubt that

[gilded elm]

Which means that although PoE is not a hard game, learning its ins and outs is a significant time investment.

[ebon meadow]

its not the complexity IMO but the wording understanding more than nothing

[gilded elm]

And the game's difficulty is a matter of lack of knowledge.

The acquisition of that knowledge is easy.

But there's simply too much of it.

[narrow token]

Provided you're not dumb as hell like me and can't understand poe without a masters degree in mathematics and quantum physics

[twilit mountain]

Dude I didn't even complete high school and I understand it...

[gilded elm]

If you broke down PoE into a learning course, it would be easier than high school math.

[twilit mountain]

Like, I have dyscalculia and can grasp the game

[gilded elm]

There would just be a bunch of courses/chapters/whatever lol

[ebon meadow]

i mean u dont have to , this is why we have and had guides for this game from people that have teams of researches and testers probably bigger than the dev team

[gilded elm]

Like if you actually turned PoE into a school course or a college course. It will be far easier than any other college / school subject.

[tawny sand]

they should bring in the nested tooltips from poe2 to poe1

[ebon meadow]

theres nothing wrong with following a guide it doesnt have to ALWAYS be a blind play thrugh

[ebon meadow]

that is also true xd

[narrow token]

Good for you. Some of us are dumber than a 5th grader. Sue me.

[ebon meadow]

now explain spirtual aid from poe 1

[twilit mountain]

Dios mio....

[torn dust]

im really glad they changed it so when you die in a map you can still redo....

but i don't understand what you "lose"....

[ebon meadow]

am i a tottem ? is tottem is me ? xdddd

[twilit mountain]

Any mods that were from towers and any mechanics that had spawned are gone

[torn dust]

okay... but when you redo the map another time, it's just the same... same rewards (according to key)?

[gilded elm]

Well failing a map means you lose the special stuff that was on that map, like the map boss, delirium mirror, expedition etc

[twilit mountain]

^

[gilded elm]

So that is something you lose

[ebon meadow]

i am messing about as well lol no one take stuff seriously from me its just a game , play it as u like and u dont have to like it

[torn dust]

okay

[sand wigeon]

hi, i am literally uneducated and can understand poe just fine. please don't flaunt idiocy and simply try to learn, it's much more productive

[gilded elm]

Apparently map bosses are huge for waystone sustain, so that kinda feels bad

[twilit mountain]

I love me some loot pinatas

[gilded elm]

Indeed lol

[ebon meadow]

pls download the letter Ñ xdd

cant spell piñata without ñ

[gilded elm]

pinyata

[ebon meadow]

^this guy is cheating hahah

thats actually acurate

[narrow token]

Good for you. We're not all the same buddy.

[twilit mountain]

I'm on a laptop xdd

[torn dust]

can you reforge/combine map waysotnes? or just craft them?

[twilit mountain]

You can reforge them, gives you back 1 tier higher

[sand wigeon]

you're so good at making excuses! if you put as much effort into learning you might know something

[gilded elm]

Damn the lack of phys reduction hurts bad lol

[narrow token]

Oh please, don't make assumptions.

[ebon meadow]

ahhh chill guys its fine its just a game (very complex one but stil...)

[sand wigeon]

buddy. i am The Presumer

[full coyote]

Alright everyone, let's remember to keep Rule 1 in mind please. 👀 #rules message

[ebon meadow]

there is rules ? i drowned down with beer already

[narrow token]

Pretty sure I haven't said anything wrong.

[ebon meadow]

neither of u had but its escalating visually

u want a fight take it DMs ) i do mean it in most friendly way posible its just a joke)

ok , i want to see the best uniques u guys droped now

[sand wigeon]

Nah, you haven't. But I do think that if you spent more time simply trying to learn, you'd make better progress. It's really discounting for people to hear "no I'm just stupid," it actively prevents any real learning. And it reflects poorly on you, too. Self deprecation isn't entertaining and people don't wanna hear it. I know I'd prefer if you were positive about yourself, "yeah, I struggle real bad with it but I'm making the effort so I'm sure I'll get better."

[twilit mountain]

I have no good ones but I can show you the worst one I've found

[gilded elm]

Good uniques in PoE2 is a myth

[twilit mountain]

Laugh.

[gilded elm]

Nice, how many seconds to a full flask? lmao

[twilit mountain]

Everlasting Gase (the right letter there is broken sorry) is good. Uh.... Ingenuity is good I think? Um... Dream Fragments I guess is good. HOWA is great.

[ebon meadow]

0.03 charges a second ... wait

[sand wigeon]

gaze

[twilit mountain]

Yes ty

I'd fix it if I could

I have no idea what's wrong

[sand wigeon]

here have some spares

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[twilit mountain]

Much appreciated

[sand wigeon]

you know you can copy and paste them

[twilit mountain]

I'd have to go scroll to find someone who used it in a word

[sand wigeon]

that'z abzolutely unbelievable. izn't it the mozt common letter? there'z only zome of them that are uzed az much

[twilit mountain]

Gets funnier btw

[sand wigeon]

(obziouzly.)

[torn dust]

i thought we got passive points for completing a map with a magic waystone, but i used a waystone with one mod and it didn't give me a point.. (the mod was posisive though) any ideas?

[twilit mountain]

Atlas points? Completely changed now

[torn dust]

how do we get atlas points?

[twilit mountain]

Doryani has a quest chain to complete X amount of T[X] or higher maps and once you do a step he'll give you a book for two atlas points and then move on to the next step, rinse and repeat.

[torn dust]

ohh, is that "complete tier 1 maps 9/10" quest?

ahh

[twilit mountain]

Yep

They get smaller as you get higher

Example

(Please ignore it being unfinished, I had sustain problems for a while)

[gilded elm]

What a nice range of values lol

[torn dust]

I think I agree with zizaran, i wish i could see the map objective or map bosses on the map right away

[sand wigeon]

i automatically disagree with anything a streamer says because i am petty

[torn dust]

maybe with some relic or mod or whatever

[sand wigeon]

i think this is a bandage fix over the actual problem. i think just making the maps smaller and more refined would be better

in poe 1, people didn't have issues with many of the maps because they had predictable generation

[tawny sand]

yeah i think they just need to lessen map size

[sand wigeon]

you could grow familiar with it. but in poe 1 you're also much faster

[tawny sand]

utzaal and arrogat are particularly bad

[sand wigeon]

poe 2 has relatively sizeable maps and you're slow

[twilit mountain]

I miss my leap slam :c

[gilded elm]

But PoE2 does have fewer map tilesets as well

[sand wigeon]

since rn we're still at release slowness, similar to poe when it originally released

[torn dust]

i like map size/speed, i didn't like poe1 zoom zoom

[gilded elm]

So map generator familiarity might just be a matter of time, given how few tilesets there are currently

[torn dust]

i just wish i knew where the obejctive was

ya, maybe when im more familiar with the maps it wont seem thjis way

[gilded elm]

What I know for sure is Rustbowl is the best map lol

[torn dust]

atlas maps dont seem that big.... some of the campaign maps on the other hand.

[exotic wave]

arrogat and apex of filth both made me got WHEN WILL YOU END?!

[tawny sand]

i'm just glad ranger has additional movement speed, i have an additional 8 percent to my boots 20 rn i think

[twilit mountain]

Kuro you're gonna have some serious trouble in like T14s if you want the game to remain slow, especially with Breach and Delirium.

[exotic wave]

yeah the game basically falls back into being PoE 1 during post-game

[torn dust]

ya, i just helped a friend with act 6, and i was doing waypoint tricks so he didn't have to grind through and run the whole of apex of filth and arrogat

[twilit mountain]

It's peak, I love getting my poison prolifs to go nuts in Breach

[ebon meadow]

waypoint generation is ...yea https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1305993560738369647/1318327202374357002/image.png?ex=67633ce2&is=6761eb62&hm=02f45d3b1fbb985b0ad5f3a7d863e3934e8d7b0332bc45ec4121833247247d9d&

[gilded elm]

Whether I survive a Breach is still a coin toss lol

[torn dust]

yeah, i have already seen some of the poe1-ish tendancies appearing

i like the monk, but my buddy playing the witch/srs build is just light spam all over the screen nonsense

[tawny sand]

i get flashbanged by my lightning ranger lol

[torn dust]

i don't care for the strobe light poe1 visuals

[twilit mountain]

Monk has some uh... incredibly speedy stuff if you get the money. Flicker basically plays the game for you after you invest enough.

[gilded elm]

Wait until they add skill effect MTX

[torn dust]

hold up, i don't mind going fast... i dont like 1 button gameplay

like if i'm just pushing one button and the game plays itself, which is virtually what poe1 flicker does... then why even play

i can just put a paperweight on the button and walk away

[ebon meadow]

i need celestial efcts on my combo skill wdum lmao

[torn dust]

my satisfaction from poe2 comes from the fact that which button i push depends on what is happening, and if I choose right, i'm efficient, and if I choose wrong, i am not, or i die

as long as that remains, im happy

[ebon meadow]

have u played minion builds ?

[torn dust]

to me games are choice challenges.. if there is no choice, there is no challegne

i have not played minion builds much, only act 1.....

[twilit mountain]

I am technically on one button gameplay myself but that's cuz I got tired of having to chain LA to LR to clear. Hurt my fingers after too long.

[ebon meadow]

then u should try one for sure

[torn dust]

why?

[ebon meadow]

for the end game

[torn dust]

they are the opposite of what i want

im confused

[ebon meadow]

well its like comanding an army to do other things depending on situation

[torn dust]

hmm, so there is a bunch of choice?

[ebon meadow]

it does depends on what buttons u press

yes

[torn dust]

hey, so far POE2 seems 100x better than POE1 in this respect... in poe1 every build is pressing one button to hit and teleport occasionally

and i don't care if the game has playstyles in it that are one button, as long as I can feel like being mechanically good at a multi button build gets me something

[ebon meadow]

what minions u use what u buff them with what utility them hitting is bringing to u or them

[torn dust]

now if a 0-1 button build is 10x stronger tham me playing me heart out on 7 buttons on monk.. then i will not enjoy things

[gilded elm]

Could probably just play minions in a way that supplements a build instead of focusing on minions alone.

[ebon meadow]

its not just that its just always found the easiest way to play and what content we run

[torn dust]

lol, i am the opposite

i want the game harder

(ruthless is not harder, just more tedius)

[ebon meadow]

i m afli warlock in wow the reason i start playing becouse it was apeling on the combos of skills and how they interact with eachother

[torn dust]

i played virising on brutal, and then made super-brutal where ANY trash in the game could oneshot me

[gilded elm]

Basically you're just asking for higher APM gameplay.

[torn dust]

yea

if it's not high APM i fall aslseep and go play something else

[tawny sand]

isn't that lost ark

[gilded elm]

Which is pretty much what an 8-button build is

aka Lost Ark too lol

[ebon meadow]

it is basicly yea

[torn dust]

i didn't care for lost arc

my #1 game played is league of legends.. which is only occasionally high apm... but it's certainly punctuated by those intense high apm moments

[gilded elm]

But yeah minion builds are typically not very high APM

[tawny sand]

what about RTS games

[torn dust]

it's not just high apm... it's high reactivity

[gilded elm]

So people who want high APM don't usually play minions (I'm the same way)

[torn dust]

i love starcraft 2

[ebon meadow]

see i like this, people complaining about that they have to press flask in poe 1 to people that actually want cntl+ second bar

[torn dust]

but it's kinda dead now

[tawny sand]

aoe2 and aoe4 are pretty good as far as current ones go

er well, aoe2 isn't current but it's active

[torn dust]

when I played WoW, I had like 20 keybinds

it wasn't super high apm, but it was intense... especially during the period that i raid healed

[ebon meadow]

6 stickers and the main skill rotation lul and my favorite parts were battlegrounds xd

[torn dust]

my enjoyment of the intensity is the reason I love the POE2 game structure.. because there is more challenge and loss mechanic in softcore

POE1 you can literally die 100 times during one boss fight and just keep going

[ebon meadow]

ok so minions skipped its ok , lets find u a good build for funz

[torn dust]

i don't love hardcore... I can do it, but it makes me play slower which is boring, so I have to choose slow and boring to win or intensity and die

[ebon meadow]

warcrys slammer ?

[torn dust]

so far POE2 monk is 100% killing it for me.. I can be as intense and fun as I want.... i also have a ranger, and he's kinda fun, but his build is a little wonked

[ebon meadow]

i like monk becouse of striker from LA

xd its just such a juicy combat style

get in hit fast get out repeat

[exotic wave]

I've got a ranger but it's really just for +1 proectiles the rest of the class/ascendcy doesn't matter lol

[ebon meadow]

Strikers combat from LA i will vouch for is the best mele combat i have ever tried , and just for the combo of it beeing an mmo with and arpg flaw

why am i reading ranger sucks and read outside the the char is unfair vs rest

[torn dust]

my plan with the ranger was to do a frenzy charge build with barrage/rain, but i just have not found out decent ways to genereate frenzy charges fast

ranger was very very fast at launch... was 8/10 top slots at first

probably because it's the most similar to poe1

[ebon meadow]

thats exactly what i read and its broken completely getting thrugh campaighn and first maps

for mid yellow tier + u need good gear

u have speed and damage and its ranged

theres no more broken archy out there

said by a fkn caster btw

[tawny sand]

does anyone else stutter on the jungle canaals map?

[ebon meadow]

what about utilizing the nodes like nodes counting charge use without using it and usage and consume 1 charge counts double ?

the last i have to confirm lol

the have chance to not consume charges i defently know is ther e

[torn dust]

AHH! ther eis one place it shows a map is complete...

[gilded elm]

Yeah, same as in PoE1

[torn dust]

its very hidden....

for those of us who don't keep the overlap map on all the time

because we play monk and need to see the action 🙂

[ebon meadow]

whats wrong with overlay if u can hide it as much as u want ? lmao

[torn dust]

(and honestly, ive played 500 hrs poe1 and i didnt know that was there)

?

i already hide the terrain, but i dont even want the lines over the gameplay

i just bring up the overlay when i need to navigate then put it away

[twilit mountain]

^ this

[torn dust]

im playing melee, literally standing in the bosses face watching for his ability to dodgeroll

[ebon meadow]

u weirdos xdd ❤️ i m joking

[torn dust]

i can't have the lines there

[ebon meadow]

thats fair i do TAB when boss

[twilit mountain]

I just can't see very well past it so I don't use it constantly. Doesn't matter what class/build, I only pull it up when I need to see the overall map.

[torn dust]

and when i do have TAB up, im usally looking at map, not the upper right corner 🙂

[ebon meadow]

i always look center and i glance sides

the only game i dont look on minimap

[twilit mountain]

I check the corner whenever I open it just to make sure I didn't miss the completion pop-up lol

[ebon meadow]

and my side i always glance is my red bubble witch is life

[torn dust]

yeah, im happy now that I know it's there..... its just a little non obvious given all the other places it shows info

like you complete the map and it doesn't even show complete on the atlas

[twilit mountain]

Yeah I think that's a visual bug?

[ebon meadow]

defently sounds like one

[torn dust]

perhaps... it should really turn green and say "Completed" or "Completed (In Progress)"

but hey, im not complaining, game is awesokme

this is EA and it's more fun than the last few finished games i've played (includine D4S6, and LE -- though their indie so excused)

[ebon meadow]

the fact that they realsing all content mostly in EA before launch is crazy for me

and polishing it to extend

wile poe1 is running

[torn dust]

ya... one of the streamers said something that i think summed it up.... this is the first week of EA.. it's the worst the game will ever be and it's great

[ebon meadow]

i mean the small changes they already made and people are still playing already shows something

[torn dust]

is there any way to get a recombiner in your hideout?

[ebon meadow]

like with just loot

[torn dust]

yeah, the concurrent curve is crazy

[ebon meadow]

its a fkn tuesday lol

what is wrong with us

[torn dust]

^^^^

[ebon meadow]

the best/worst part

they actually pulled it out with servers on launch

they have broke the streak

[torn dust]

yeah, i was amazed at how stable the servers were

nutso for a launch this unexpectedly big

[viral galleon]

It only took like 3 hours to fix server issues

[ebon meadow]

not that , they were working

people were playing , what the hell is this

[gilded elm]

I have an addiction. I admit it.

But yeah this level of concurrent retention is nuts for an early access niche genre.

[torn dust]

i wouldn't say ARPG is niche.... D4 and Diablo-Immortal EACH made $700M last year

[gilded elm]

niche franchise, maybe

[torn dust]

POE1 made $84M

POE2 is really going to break into the big boy money

[gilded elm]

For sure

[ebon meadow]

find me an info on how much GGG made with chinese client launch pls

lets slap Blizz for a bit

one game company

[gilded elm]

I think Tencent has all rights to that and I doubt there's mandatory fiscal reporting for that, but maybe

[torn dust]

they killed most of the regional pricing... and info we have says POE2 has around 1M people who bought paid keys (representing ~1.5M keys, but who knows how many extra keys got used)

so at a minimum that's $30M

[gilded elm]

GGG NZ revenue is up on the NZ gov website though

[torn dust]

but yeah, nobody knows in China

[ebon meadow]

ohh yea they have to make it public lol

i still feel to weird to check thogh

i just like to hear raw numbers lol

wipped it and put it on the table

[torn dust]

I thought reforging would take affixes from each source item, but i put 3 map waystones in and none of the affixes showed up on the output

[gilded elm]

A lot of PoE diehards are under the misconception that D4 being "bad" somehow makes it unpopular. Many even would refuse to accept that D4 is not only the most played / most popular ARPG on the market, but Diablo Immortal itself also likely outperforms PoE1 in annual revenue.

[ebon meadow]

one exeption Immortal dont count here since its mobile game and i have a very big exp there

its not for numbers its how many acounts 1 person can handle

[torn dust]

likely?!?!?! DI made $700M in 2023, POE1 made $84M

[gilded elm]

Yeah I didn't look at the hard numbers from Blizzard's reporting.

But it seemed fairly obvious from my standpoint.

[torn dust]

diablo-franchise is currently making blizzard over $1.5B a year.... so yea, they are the juggernaut

[gilded elm]

People think nobody plays D4 or DI, or that it's even successful financially.

[torn dust]

yeah, some POE1 players have a strange opinion about this stuff

[gilded elm]

D4/DI makes more money than every other ARPG combined.

[torn dust]

like GGG should cater to POE1 audience, instead of making $200M off POE2

i very much hope GGG finds the formula to get the big playerbase and big money

though it would have been better if they had done it befor ethey sold to tencent 🙂

[gilded elm]

GGG just needs to be careful not to fall into the trap of trying to make a game for too broad of an audience.

While it may have worked from a financial perspective for D4, it didn't actually create the experience I was initially looking for.

That's why I'm hoping GGG doesn't tune the game down too much in an effort to cater to a more casual audience. I get that some tuning is needed, but I hope it remains a difficult and brutally punishing game.

[tawny sand]

you know what's weird is that the D4 devs said they "made a mistake trying to make it more like D2", while PoE2 actually feels like a spiritual successor to D2 (somewhat at least, more so than D4 did at launch)

[ebon meadow]

It's the jungle part of act 3 monkaS but u are right the dificulty does feel like d2

[gilded elm]

Yeah that was an interesting interview. I don't think the mistake was that they tried to make the game more like D2, I think the problem is that they tried to do it in a way that regressed, not progressed. D4's itemization at launch was completely uninteresting and the game launched with basically no endgame.

[tawny sand]

and it doesn't feel like annoying difficulty either, remember how bad crowd control was on D4 launch?

god i hated being cc'd in d4

[ebon meadow]

Like through out Ur knledge of farm if u play D2 rework and then Poe 2 they feel alike

[tawny sand]

yeah they got similar feels to them, it's hard to quantize exactly for me

[gilded elm]

D4 is still kind of going through an identity crisis, IMO. Trying to figure out exactly who they're making the game for.

[ebon meadow]

It is hard just skip what u know part lol

[ebon meadow]

It should be for people that have less time ,casual players etc like we all observe it

It's fine it doesn't have to be a sweaty game

[torn dust]

remains? poe1's biggest problem is that it's mechanically too easy gameplay... (and the complication it does have is mostly eliminated because you have to use a build planner because respecs are so hard)

[ebon meadow]

Just give content and the open world that u painted us

[gilded elm]

I'm saying that in relation to PoE2

PoE2 has definitely challenged me more and I hope it stays that way

[torn dust]

ahh.. yeah, i agree with your point, hope poe2 stays complex and "hard" in some ways too

[gilded elm]

I hope that design philosophy continues

Obviously repetition trivializes anything, but I just hope this is their design philosophy and we can expect new content to follow it.

[ebon meadow]

they wanted to make an arpg with a dark souls feel they succed at it i guess but i desagree with poe1 beeing a simple game though no dis

i had to expian to people so many stuff all over and over that a simple to me its crazy

the issue was just reading and maybe translating to ur understanding

the wording in both POEs is so crutial that u have to read and try to relate to understanding what are u reading

like how is more damge is diferent from increased damage

[gilded elm]

They're saying PoE1 has less mechanically complex gameplay, which is true.

There's no worrying about getting swarmed by mobs, no dodge roll, boss mechanics are uninteresting etc.

[ebon meadow]

yea i can agree with that

[gilded elm]

1 button builds become viable very early on in PoE1 which says a lot about its mechanical complexity.

[ebon meadow]

swarm by mobs =getting shotgunned by choas spiters dodge roll fine , Sirus mechains without a guide or a video = GL

exarch fight

maven fight

[gilded elm]

Now compare how many of those kinds of fights PoE1 has, and how many PoE2 has.

[ebon meadow]

any deli boss fights

[tawny sand]

neversink did an update https://github.com/NeverSinkDev/NeverSink-PoE2litefilter/releases/tag/0.2.1

[gilded elm]

Let's be real, besides Sirus and Maven, none of those are really that hard.

Exarch is just a regular PoE2 act boss, basically.

[ebon meadow]

nicu

[gilded elm]

PoE1 has very few mechanical and difficult boss fights.

That's really just uber territory and there's not that many of them.

And outside of bosses, you can 1 button the game before you even finish the campaign.

[ebon meadow]

yea but that becouse we have expirience on how game developed lol they are actually hard boses

like witch league u started ?

[gilded elm]

PoE2 simply has more mechanics in its gameplay which engages your attention in a different way than PoE1 does.

[ebon meadow]

for us dificulty is a raid boss and getting 20 donkeys to do thingsa that u need to complete the boss xd

[gilded elm]

People are struggling on white mobs in PoE2, and it's not just a damage issue. It's a mechanical issue.

[ebon meadow]

ohh i dont desagree on that , that was the intention

two diferent arpgs , one more arcade one more dark souls i hate my self and i want to smash my head against this game

nothing wrong with that lol i like it

[tawny sand]

poe2 mobs are harder than the bosses a lot of the times imo

though the wolf's poetry reading still gets me now, i try to dodge to the queues but i still get hit

[ebon meadow]

ohh really ? have u met my friend soul eater in delve ?

i have finished end game boses faster than i kill those fkrs

[ebon meadow]

that i have same issue , and i m trying to blame my networking

getting hit in an animation thats not an aoe is blashemy

[gilded elm]

Patch in 50 minutes. Patch notes at https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3645467

[tawny sand]

How does Acrobatics work? What's considered a "Hit"?

[gilded elm]

Any damage tick that isn't a DoT tick.

So Acrobatics, if I'm understanding, makes it so you can evade hits that you normally wouldn't be able to, such as spell hits.

[tawny sand]

woah

that's goofy good

[gilded elm]

Seems that way, yeah

There is the downside that you lose 70% of your evasion rating, so you gotta make that back up somehow

[tawny sand]

what would evade do after i take it though? like what else would it evade?

[gilded elm]

That's 70% less Evasion Rating, so it's multiplicative too.

Evade normally only works for Attacks (that's what Accuracy Rating is for)

[tawny sand]

but wouldn't i be evading them constantly with acrobatics?

i don't understand what else evasion does that the 70% matters

[gilded elm]

Your Chance to Evade is calculated from your Evasion Rating. So losing 70% (multiplicative) Evasion Rating means you have less Chance to Evade.

[tawny sand]

OH

i understood it originally as "you evade all hits" but i misinterpreted the "can" part

so i can evade more types of hits, but i lose my chance to evade

i get it now

[gilded elm]

Yep, that's it.

[tawny sand]

guess i'm going pure evasion then

[gilded elm]

Note that evasion alone is always a bad idea, whether in PoE1 or PoE2

[tawny sand]

oh

[gilded elm]

Unless you use something like Iron Reflexes (in PoE1, not sure on 2)

[tawny sand]

oh 😦

i've been doing evasion only the entire time

[gilded elm]

You can't evade every hit no matter how high your evasion is in PoE.

[tawny sand]

i think outside my chest which is evasion and armor

how are hits calculated? Do they hit your gear pieces, or is it like a total sum

in grim dawn it's per piece

[gilded elm]

TLDR: Evasion system is designed to guarantee a hit after you evade a number of times.

[tawny sand]

oh so it like increases chances the more i evade?

[gilded elm]

Yep, basically.

[tawny sand]

so i should probably do armor then some

or well i guess energy shield is really good atm

but i don't think there's any ES nodes near ranger start

[gilded elm]

Evade is a form of Avoidance. You want an additional layer of defense, ideally some form of Mitigation (which can be Armour for Phys, damage shifting aka "taken as" or raw life/shield).

And of course Recovery to top it off. Recoup, regen and/or leech.

[tawny sand]

i see i see

[gilded elm]

Avoidance/Mitigation/Recovery - I try to always keep these layers in mind when trying to cover my defenses.

[tawny sand]

what other types of avoidance is there?

[gilded elm]

Block is the other main one

[tawny sand]

oh right, makes sense

[gilded elm]

Anything that allows you to avoid taking damage.

[candid sage]

i will take all the res please

[gilded elm]

This is absolutely god-like.

[ebon meadow]

thats disgusting sir , ventor it

and its a level 56

[candid sage]

i might never take that belt off tbh

[ebon meadow]

thats not what she said xdd

[gilded elm]

Maybe you Chaos Orb it... take a chance on getting rid of Mana Recovery? LOL

[candid sage]

noooooooooooooooope

[gilded elm]

I wonder if you can still "brick" with Vaal Orbs, I haven't ended up with a rerolled item from Vaaling

[candid sage]

i honestly need the mana regen anyways rn

[ebon meadow]

Kirra did today lol

[candid sage]

think its still a 25% chance of poofing the item ya?

[ebon meadow]

briked her weapon

[gilded elm]

In PoE1 yeah

Every time I tried so far in PoE2 it just did nothing or it added an implicit

[ebon meadow]

she removed her + levels to skill xdd

[gilded elm]

lmao, you sure that wasn't a chaos orb?

Sounds like a chaos

Vaal Orb at least in PoE1 would completely reroll your item

[ebon meadow]

i think it was corupting it

[tawny sand]

vaal can change up to half the affixes iirc in poe2

[gilded elm]

If it seems like the only downside to Vaaling in PoE2 is that you corrupt the item in the worst case, I would be more likely to just Vaal everything.

[tawny sand]

https://www.poe2wiki.net/wiki/Corrupted#Corruption_outcomes

[ebon meadow]

i scrolled to much i cant find lol

[tawny sand]

idk if re-roll means reroll the numbers, or change the affixes though

[gilded elm]

The latter, I assume

[sand wigeon]

apparently this is REALLY good according to my family. (butter basted with salt, pepper and thyme)

[gilded elm]

Wow, so you can't "brick" a unique with a Vaal Orb in PoE2? Interesting

[ebon meadow]

ohh it was chaos orb lol

why did i read corupting

[gilded elm]

It looks like the risk of bricking a gem with a Vaal Orb is also kinda low.

Or even if you do, it's not really "bricked"

[tawny sand]

i got -1 level on one gem

[gilded elm]

which tbh isn't that big of a deal

[tawny sand]

yeah not terrible

we need to be able to brick

[ebon meadow]

just finished inserting burger inside of me but that does look apealing

[tawny sand]

makes it more fun

[tawny sand]

yummy

[gilded elm]

I think the worst gem outcome is losing quality, but the wiki says this is unconfirmed.

[ebon meadow]

that would be like poe1

[candid sage]

sigh when the mod gets auto modded

[ebon meadow]

it is the worst outcome and goes to quality gems tab to ventor

[candid sage]

im still not gonna mess with the belt and vaaling until i got something to replace it with

[gilded elm]

Ofc, I wouldn't either lmao

You still haven't even added catalysts to it yet

[ebon meadow]

werent the catalists ?

can go just for quality and stat inc secured

[gilded elm]

Oh wow

[candid sage]

oh, yeah, i just need to get some

[ebon meadow]

xdd

[gilded elm]

Belts aren't enhanced by catalysts anymore?

[narrow token]

So the dreadnought seems tailor made for exploding fireballs

[ebon meadow]

wait

[narrow token]

Wish I had a t3 support gem though

[ebon meadow]

now i confused if they count as jewelery

[gilded elm]

No it specifically says rings and amulets... so I'm assuming this to mean Catalysts simply do not work with belts anymore.

[ebon meadow]

well F no more catas for belts

yea that defently reads as only rings and amus

[gilded elm]

This happens when I try to apply a catalyst to my belt

[ebon meadow]

so armour quality i guess for implicit quality???

thats a nerf lol

[candid sage]

its not an armour either

[gilded elm]

^

I hope belt quality is at least a thing because that's kinda lame if not lol

[candid sage]

just not in the game yet, i guess

[gilded elm]

Yeah hopefully

Could be the case since they did switch amulet anoints from Blight in PoE1 to Delirium in PoE2

[ebon meadow]

trying to think logicly at 00:40 drunk after dinner and almoast high unless they counted as something like trinkets they fkd up or we getting enchanted belts later

[viral galleon]

no charm slot mod, trash.

[gilded elm]

I'll take it lmao

Also, screw Volatile Crystals

Glad that shit is getting disabled in the upcoming patch

[candid sage]

same

[tawny sand]

i know my other hated enemy

the hags that do the bubbles that can insta kill you in act 3

[hexed stream]

so nice everyone gains +20 ele res after patch

almost 700mb patch

[tawny sand]

let me in 😦

[hexed stream]

[stone arch]

i feel like ggg overtuned everything so they can slowly lower everything overtime making people feel better and get better overview of what needs to be done.

[hexed stream]

smart strategy

[viral galleon]

honestly i think its better to aim a little too high and bring it down than to aim a little too low and have to push it up

like, you can buff drop rates but you can't ever reduce drop rates without causing a riot

[hexed stream]

wait, doesn't that mean aim low and improve over time?

[viral galleon]

eh well regardless, most of the issues can be fixed with numerical changes

[torn dust]

was this update THE patch they talked about? i dont see any patch notes

[torn dust]

also, if there are too many drops and people complete content too easily, they don't learn much... but some percentage of people struggle, they get a nice spread of stats about how long it takes people to complete things and who is dying to what... better data

[tawny sand]

https://www.pathofexile.com/forum/view-thread/3645467

[viral galleon]

yeah, i played through the game with a minion build at first and once i got to cruel i made a monk just to try a different build out and i've been enjoying monk much more because i have to engage with bosses and content

[hexed stream]

the biggest thing I care is when do they fix the delay in opening map

[tawny sand]

yeah that one is odd, idk why they went with procedurally generated maps like that

it's not like it actually does anything

[torn dust]

@viral galleon im finding monk so fun.. and the freeze/stun ability makes bosses so much quicker, as long as you can handle the mechanics

[torn dust]

omg im blind, i looked in announcements, when there is a forum literally called "early access patch notes"

[viral galleon]

I'm doing lightning though..

[torn dust]

nice... i plan to try lightning monk someday, but for now frost is the way

wave of frost into glacial really helps with tight quarters and doors

[mental talon]

You can't in the traditional sense. But you can reroll the values up to .8x lower (Cries in Ingenuity going from 80% to 57%)

[torn dust]

i prefer the poe2 way, of possibly retaining some potential

otherwise it's just a one time yellow shreddertha might give you something good

[hexed stream]

weirdly shaped map section

[torn dust]

in these tight quarters maps, I really like wave-of-frost with freeze bonus, into glacial cascade and herald of frost to explode them.... this is a terrible clip but it shows the concept

[fierce moth]

Lots of bugs are fixed but flashing ground in Utzaal not mentioned at all

[torn dust]

did they fix the flashing textures in the ziggurat encampment?

[fierce moth]

No, as well

[torn dust]

i have not noticed it (at all) on this machine with 16GB gpu memory, but on my old 8GB gpu the flashing was pretty bad in some areas.. so i assume this is just some texture memory optimization combined with some code

[fierce moth]

My laptop...Only 6GB GPU memory

[hexed stream]

give them time, provided they don't kill another gpu of mine

[torn dust]

i would sacrifice a GPU for this game., it's that good

[wanton flicker]

You're not gonna believe the reasoning that Borderlands community thinks Borderlands 4 is gonna be the greatest video game of all time:

because it takes place on another planet...

[fierce moth]

It take place on another planet...The best game all the time... What the relationship between them 😅

[torn dust]

lol?

okay seeing poe1 mechanics like expedition show up in this pretty new engine is pretty cool

[wanton flicker]

Look look it's called Kairos, it's a new place called Kairos. It's not called Pandora. This is gonna be the #1 greatest video game ever

I stg some Borderlands fans are wild

they always think the next game is gonna blow away the previous Borderlands game

[tawny sand]

i never could get into borderlands

just wasn't my thing, and i tried all 3

[torn dust]

the fact that after a client crash, I usually login in right where i was, with everything paused, makes me want to kiss these develoeprs

[fierce moth]

it means good or bad?

[torn dust]

very good

[wanton flicker]

I enjoy Borderlands 1/2/3 but Gearbox CEO Randy Pitchford's attitude made me drop the series for good

[fierce moth]

@tawny sand Can you help me to kill silverfist now?

[torn dust]

omg this expedition intro dialog is so hilarious

[tawny sand]

oh idk if i can with the latency to china, you gotta be pretty quick with the dodges on him

[fierce moth]

Oh then I guess no ping issue with @hexed stream

[tawny sand]

i don't mind trying though, but give me like 5 minutes. need to finish a map

[torn dust]

i can help with silverfist

no problem for me

if you end up needing silverfist, add "Kuro_MT"

[tawny sand]

i'm ready, invite me whenever

[fierce moth]

Thanks 🙏

[tawny sand]

np

[hexed stream]

time to complete act 1

[fierce moth]

pog... Such a pity that not all skills

[jade jackal]

And no int lol

[hexed stream]

can still sell it for 1-2 ex I guess

someone bought a random jewel I have for 20ex, not even sure why it's worth so much

leveling with corpsewade feels so good

[fierce moth]

I wonder how to make this gem work

[hexed stream]

with enough spirit

[fierce moth]

60, it's enough

....Asked that in poe server and that people tell me it needs energy to cast a lightning skill automatically

I'm confused really

🫡 I see now. I thought the way wrongly...Put the corresponding skill gem into support gem socket of cast on shock instead of vice versa hhhhhh

[fierce moth]

what the hell... Trial of chaos have double boss types?!
I just met a huge peacock and yeah, be slain by its minions

[fierce moth]

....I explored the whole map here but why i still can't find the entrance of Jiquani's machinarium?

The only exit is temple of chaos. Emmmm

[desert jasper]

The exit is behind the Chimera boss
you have to go up the stairs

[maiden widget]

yeah that part was super annoying, took me ages to find it

[vagrant topaz]

I had the same problem yesterday

Temple of Chaos made me regret Sanctum Ascendancy

[fierce moth]

Another extrance took me a while to find is...Matlan waterways 😅

I forget the entrance just near the waypoint then I just go further and further away from the location

holy god no memory at all suddenly

Ok I think I collect enough golds for the old character to respec, let's see can I save it from dead status

[eager ridge]

with how high the damage on this thing is, i wonder if it tilts anyone with what runes i have on it

[junior oyster]

Nope because I'm minions

I am trying to level a ranger but anything other than minions is super boring lol

[eager ridge]

thats funny since most people consider the opposite to be boring

[junior oyster]

Yea I've been that way since D2

And it's not any minions either

It has to be an army of undead

So non of the druid 'pets'

[fierce moth]

Alright my damage still super poor... Have to play the new character more to gain more golds again

[eager ridge]

or just come join me on T8 maps, you'll be swimmin in gold

i dropped 250k earlier to swap to a different build i made

[hexed stream]

I miss poe1 design on this

mist of death

[jade jackal]

Because the maps in act 3 are an absolute endurance test and are twice as large as they have any excuse to be

[fierce moth]

I don't know how to play lightning stormweaver.

let me find can I import my build somewhere... damage is too poor

[eager ridge]

thats gonna be the meatiest ritual

[hexed stream]

300 vs 10000

[fierce moth]

https://mobalytics.gg/poe-2/profile/ff079ac2-e90e-4757-84f5-1998c89ee6bf/builds/19f9728d-c03a-472c-993b-5d4786d43984
@gilded elm I wonder where can I improve still. All info of my build is here

No extra exalt orbs for trading something good from the market so this way isn't available for me

My issue is simple, damage is too poor. I guess my defense is poor too though...

[gilded elm]

That Cast on Shock is probably barely even working for you, I assume

Because your chance to shock is likely very low

Shock Chance actually works much differently in PoE2

Probably want to manual cast Orb of Storms

And then you can drop Cast on Shock and pick up Mana Remnants maybe.

[fierce moth]

will it help if I use this one on spark?

[gilded elm]

It won't make a big difference for you yet

[fierce moth]

I wonder 100% more chance add on where

[gilded elm]

The energy requirement of Cast on Shock is based on the skill gem's Cast Time.

Easier to just cast Orb of Storms first, and then refresh it every few seconds.

Also maybe put Pierce Support on your Spark, might be more useful for you right now

[fierce moth]

Where can I check out how much shock chance I have?

[gilded elm]

You can't see that easily, because the calculation for it is different in PoE2. The monster's "Ailment Threshold" affects your chance to apply ailments.

[fierce moth]

Use pierce instead of rising tempest?

[gilded elm]

Rising Tempest is very good if you are actively using Flame Wall every 4 seconds

I'd probably drop Lightning Mastery?

[fierce moth]

hhhhhhhh that's the problem. i don't have 4 support gem sockets :(

[gilded elm]

Or Arcane Tempo if your cast speed is okay

Lightning Exposure Support is also good on Lightning Warp.

• Lightning Exposure makes it so you apply -20% Lightning Resistance to enemies shocked by the supported skill.
• Lightning Warp creates Shocked Ground which always shocks

Also maybe add Ball Lightning skill gem so you can use Lightning Warp without having to Cull.

[fierce moth]

There's a question is dps downs a lot after use pierce... from 582.8 to 465.2

[gilded elm]

That's okay, you will make up for that DPS by synergizing with your other skills.

Pierce has good utility early on

It will help you kill white mobs better

[fierce moth]

What about bosses?

[gilded elm]

Bosses are fine too, you just have to basically use every skill, make sure your Flame Wall/Orb of Storms/Exposure Debuff are constantly up

And Conductivity

This is what I mean with Ball Lightning + Lightning Warp + Lightning Exposure. Look at the monster's debuff icons.

[fierce moth]

do you mean put lightning ball on cast on shock or link it as sperate skill? which support gem should I use if lightning ball is a sperate skill?

[gilded elm]

See how the shocked ground from Lightning Warp applies Lightning Exposure

[fierce moth]

What 51% mean?

[gilded elm]

That's Shock. 51% increased damage taken from all sources.

In my case, it's 102%

Because I can have 2 stacks of shock

[fierce moth]

so it's the shock chance?

[gilded elm]

No it's the shock effect.

51% says that monster will take 51% increased damage. There's two stacks, so it's a total of 102% increased damage taken

You can only use Lightning Warp under 2 conditions, Ball Lightning is one of those conditions.

Shoot ball, use Lightning Warp to teleport to ball.

This will damage surrounding enemies and create Shocked Ground.

The Shocked Ground will apply Lightning Exposure from the support gem

[fierce moth]

So I use lightning ball as a sperate skill, ok. It don't need support gems?

I wonder 100% more chance to shock maybe can apply on somewhere

[gilded elm]

Ball Lightning sucks for damage, but Deceleration is a good gem, to slow down the balls. Maybe Concentrated Effect if you want to squeeze some damage out of it

I mainly use Ball Lightning + Lightning Warp specifically to apply Shock and Exposure, but you can use it as main DPS if you solve mana issues and get more projectiles.

[fierce moth]

😂 ...

Attributes are hard to balance

[gilded elm]

Kind of gives you a feel for it

Bit of a bigger pack, but yeah you get the idea

[fierce moth]

do any issue on my passive tree?

[gilded elm]

This is what I have, obviously the lightning stuff and energy shield stuff is really important, but otherwise I don't really know what your build feels like atm so you might need to adjust it to your needs

[hexed stream]

Do you guys think div price gonna rise or fall till end of holiday?

[fierce moth]

oh yeah... Do crit chance and crit bonus important for this build and why?

[gilded elm]

I'm just trying to branch into it because crit seems really good

[fierce moth]

I still no idea this is a crit-based or dot build

[gilded elm]

It's not really necessary, my crit chance is still very low

[fierce moth]

how much crit chance is low?

[gilded elm]

This is my Spark for example

[fierce moth]

I bet different definition for us...
hhhhh indeed

[gilded elm]

My Lightning Warp

These are, I think... objectively low crit chances haha

[vagrant topaz]

What is the base Crit Multi in Poe 2?

[fierce moth]

Very close to you

[gilded elm]

Depends on the skill for spells, not sure about attacks... I assume it's the same (based on the gem)

[hexed stream]

Multi is 150%

[gilded elm]

Oh MULTI

yeah

I don't think it's 150?

Or am I losing some from somewhere...

[hexed stream]

150, but base is 100

So only 50% more

Not 150% = 2.5x

[gilded elm]

Okay yeah the default is +100% (aka 2x)

[fierce moth]

? How are you know the base crit multiplier for a skill is 100% or 150%?

[vagrant topaz]

OK

[hexed stream]

No no, 100% is base, meaning no crit

So by default, a crit only deals 50% more

[gilded elm]

Critical Damage Bonus is represented as +X% where the "100%" is implied.

So the real technical default is 200%, but it's represented as "+100%"

[fierce moth]

I wonder how these affixes influence with my damage

[hexed stream]

LE copies this system from poe, so in LE, 200% crit multi means 2x, not 3x

[gilded elm]

I don't know what to tell you man, that's just not true in PoE2.

As you can see, the 100% is implied and it's using "+100%" to represent "twice as much damage" aka 2x

[hexed stream]

Interesting

[fierce moth]

A bit confused

[gilded elm]

If I say to you, what is **+**100% of the number 15, what do you think the answer is?

[fierce moth]

Base crit multiplier in le is 200%, it's as same as 100% base crit multiplier in poe on effect?

[hexed stream]

So I got confused with poe1, where base crit multi is 150%

[fierce moth]

Twice as much damage, so I'll 15x2=30

[hexed stream]

Base crit multi in poe2 is 200%

[gilded elm]

Correct, PoE2 says "+100% Critical Damage Bonus" to mean twice as much damage. As a calculation though, this is actually x2.0

The important thing is the plus sign.

[hexed stream]

I wonder if my walking simulator build fails, what should I do

[fierce moth]

... I need to ask ave something

[hexed stream]

Cooking a build is hard, even when poe2 is already simplthan poe1

[fierce moth]

why are you want to fire more projectiles?

[gilded elm]

Mostly for Ball Lightning + Lightning Warp if you want to do more damage with Lightning Warp, not really necessary for Spark IMO

More balls = more Lightning Warp teleports

[fierce moth]

do 100% increased crit chance from passive tree = 1% crit hit chance for a skill?

[hexed stream]

No

[gilded elm]

100% increased crit chance = Skill Crit Chance x 2.0

Spark has 9% base crit chance. So it turns into 18%

[fierce moth]

x2...
oh so 10% crit chance= 0.5% skill crit chance

[gilded elm]

10% increased crit chance = Skill Crit Chance x 1.1

[fierce moth]

What about increased cri hit chance for spells? This is one of effixes on my wand

[gilded elm]

EffectiveCritChance = SkillCritChance x (1.0 + IncreasedCritChance)

[gilded elm]

It's the same thing. It just all gets added together.

Obviously it only works for spells though for that

[tawny sand]

i think everything in poe2 is additive right? there's no "more" wording

[gilded elm]

There most definitely is More and Less in PoE2

[tawny sand]

oh, my b

[gilded elm]

And they are still multiplicative as well

BaseDamage * More1 * More2 * More3 * (Increased1 + Increased2 + Increased3)

[fierce moth]

oh... spark base crit chance is 9%, 25% crit chance bonus from my wand, 60% crit chance bonus from my passive tree.

So 9x(1+0.85)=16.65%

[gilded elm]

Perfect score! You pass 🙂

[fierce moth]

but... why my crit hit chance is 15.3% only...

[gilded elm]

Are you sure you have 85% total?

Do you have any conditional crit chance?

Or anything that is reducing crit chance?

[gilded elm]

I think you mistakenly counted this as crit "chance"

9x(1+0.70) = 15.3

[fierce moth]

oh...Ohhhhhh

Oh damn why a bonus point group into them

[vagrant topaz]

Because on one side you get Inc Crit Chance but if you hace enough you can still path to the notable and get Crit Multi instead

[fierce moth]

Can you bring me to gain many golds? I want to try critial damage branch here

[gilded elm]

Are you sure that's wise if your crit chance is only 15%?

[fierce moth]

Oh calculated how much crit hit chance if I spec all nodes in that branch

😅 why increase crit hit chance is such hard in poe 2

[hexed stream]

coz it's designed that way

[gilded elm]

15% Crit Damage Bonus x 0.1998 = 2.997% Effective Damage Bonus, I don't think it's a good idea lol

[fierce moth]

then lightning stormweaver can go dot build only. Increase as much as elemental damage + lightning damage

[gilded elm]

Lightning isn't a DoT lol

[vagrant topaz]

Is Crit chance capped like in Poe 1?

[simple needle]

ice is such a superior elemental compared to the others

[fierce moth]

Holy god so which way is the correct one to increase my damage?... Stack as more shock chance as possible?

[hexed stream]

crit chance has a cap in poe1? lots of builds there can go 100% iirc

[gilded elm]

Not sure on a cap

[vagrant topaz]

Maybe I got smth wrong, but I thought there was a 90% capped

[hexed stream]

that's d2 accuracy I think

[gilded elm]

Well, I already told you to add Lightning Exposure to Lightning Warp, that right there is a 20% multiplicative damage multiplier.

[hollow coral]

Ohboi, 2 weeks after launch and people are finally admitting PoE2 is kinda boring and not a lot of fun

[hexed stream]

coz endgame is copy paste from poe1, totally out of place for poe2

no finetuning yet

[hollow coral]

Would've saved themselves 100 hours of time if they admitted to themselves the game wasn't really that much fun and stying in the hype lane wasn't worth it

[gilded elm]

It's 7:30am on a Wednesday morning and I technically have work in a couple hours. I have an addiction problem with PoE2, but it's fortunate I work from home.

[vagrant topaz]

Turns out I was wrong, that's okay I learned

[hollow coral]

Accuracy is such a weird design choice for ARPG

[hexed stream]

I wanna wfh too, but it seems only IT related jobs have such luxury

[hollow coral]

It the skill hits the monster then just count it as a hit, don't diceroll on top of that

[gilded elm]

Been working from home for almost two decades now, I can never go back, never will go back to commuting, ever.

[hexed stream]

nightmare

[hollow coral]

Most office jobs don't really benefit from being onsite 40 hours a week

[gilded elm]

Blessed by an abundance of fully remote positions in the software engineering field.

[fierce moth]

oh then I need more passive points to reach that lightning damage branch on the top again at first

[hollow coral]

Can do my job in 2 hours at home and then I don't have to pretend I'm doing something so slower co-workers don't get mad

[hexed stream]

actually artists like @fierce moth can also work from home

[fierce moth]

(For increasing damage from passive trees)

[hollow coral]

Artists especially should work from home, having people distracting you all day is not doing productivity any favors

How can you lock in and draw when there's 20 people around

[gilded elm]

Can't see a reason why most desk jobs wouldn't be better at home. Most people aren't even productive for 8 hours a day.