It’s the case in more than just video games
#💬┃general
zinc blaze
fervent lintel
LE doesn't have enough stuff to satisfy whales anyway--especially without p2w pvp
zinc blaze
Ye
fervent lintel
LE isn't a gacha and shouldn't try to act like one
zinc blaze
LE isn't a gacha and shouldn't try to act like one
yea
prisma lake
We need to stop talking about the Price for Expansion, and talk more about the stock market for Krafton. -179,500.00 Down the past 5 years. there going to try and Milk us and get as much money as possible out of us I see the new class being 29.99, and Expansions being $69.99. Just like call of duty with there Ai marketing, this will be the fall of another game that the Company lied to our faces.
verbal void
based
fervent lintel
EHG =/= Krafton
Krafton's stock has a lot of factors involved, not just that of a single game
EHG never intended to lie to us. Reality just didn't put them in a position to keep the promise.
It's wildly different circumstances.
verbal void
never intended to lie to us is insane cope
fervent lintel
No, it's not.
I've been playing since early-mid beta. Deception was never the goal.
void ermine
You guys need to chill. The vitriol is insane
spark flume
never intended to lie to us is insane cope
I don't think it's cope 😮 but does this even matter anyway, they did lie and tried to tell us they are excited to share the news
fervent lintel
And it's wildly ignorant of how businesses operate to suggest otherwise
raven haven
fact of the matter is tons of people bought supporter packs for the reason that they wouldn't do this. Doesn't matter how you slice it they sold out after they took our money
fervent lintel
It's less that they "lied" and more that they were wrong.
verbal void
yeah idc why someone lied to me
fervent lintel
If you don't like it, you can vote with your wallet
feral belfry
Sometimes I don't think people realize how businesses are ran
raven haven
we did vote with out wallet and they screwed us lol
spark flume
Sometimes I don't think people realize how businesses are ran
it's not really their problem as consumer tbh
verbal void
they reaped the rewards of being "community focused" and working "in good faith" for years and now it's not the most profitable option so they're turning heel
fervent lintel
we did vote with out wallet and they screwed us lol
Then you were wrong too
verbal void
not sure how anyone would disagree with that
raven haven
they reaped the rewards of being "community focused" and working "in good faith"...
this 100%
void ermine
Lies are with intention. Circumstances changed. Either adapt monetization or close studio. Some of you need to come back to reality
fervent lintel
they reaped the rewards of being "community focused" and working "in good faith"...
This is the most disingenuous take ever. They are "selling out" because the other option is shut down.
spark flume
people really feel cheated that feeling is valid
fervent lintel
people really feel cheated that feeling is valid
Sure. Both things are true.
void ermine
Feelings are not facts though
spark flume
yeah I wouild just prefer you know people seeing the other side a bit more and not having to argue all the time x)
fervent lintel
I would rather they adapt their monetization while they can than go the way of Firefall tho
feral belfry
whether you buy cosmetics or paid expansions and characters the money needs to come in and it wasn't
verbal void
I have a hard time believing that barring content behind a paywall was the only solution
fervent lintel
Then come up with a better one and convince them to do that instead
void ermine
If you think a one time 30$ payment is gonna keep development up for years is insane, considering noone bought the MTX
spark flume
Idk how the game will go now, for me trust and goodwill was like their strongest suit
fervent lintel
Yeah, that's fair. Doubt is justified.
spark flume
If you think a one time 30$ payment is gonna keep development up for years is in...
I really can't fathom how bad their skins were
void ermine
Idk how the game will go now, for me trust and goodwill was like their strongest...
Wait and see. Either they will have good content or not.
feral belfry
I really can't fathom how bad their skins were
they were awful
void ermine
I really can't fathom how bad their skins were
Agreed
fervent lintel
I really can't fathom how bad their skins were
I don't know that I would call them "bad," but they certainly didn't warrant the price tag--hence, nobody buying them.
feral belfry
no they were bad
zinc blaze
the void supporter pack is cool
raven haven
If you think a one time 30$ payment is gonna keep development up for years is in...
yeah but just cause the devs can't do good skins justifies this? nah bro, they had their chance and couldn't cut it so no one bought it. It is consumer demand,
void ermine
They have bad MTX and they update the game once a year. Thats not feasible for live service. I will concede EHG made their own bed, but given all this, paid dlc are neccessary now.
fervent lintel
I mean, I would have been happy to buy some if they were like 1/4 that price, lol
void ermine
I mean, I would have been happy to buy some if they were like 1/4 that price, lo...
Price is ok, quality is not though
fervent lintel
Price is ok, quality is not though
It's a ratio
spark flume
it feels bad to be 'punished" and the game becoming like this just because of how bad they screwed up with the skins, for me it's like " okay you tried your best I understand that we may have to do this". But I really can't think the skins were like the best someone can do especially when you have many expemples to steal from
fervent lintel
LoL sold Pulsefire Ezreal for $30 and lots of people paid because it was genuinely well done
spark flume
I know they tried but I don't feel like "okay they did their best"
void ermine
it feels bad to be 'punished" and the game becoming like this just because of ho...
Oh no they blew it. If you want to sell skins, you better make them look good
fervent lintel
Or cheap 🙂
zinc blaze
LoL sold Pulsefire Ezreal for $30 and lots of people paid because it was genuine...
people spent 500$ or something on a jhin skin recolor
pliant coral
That new dlc will be available for free to owners of LE, why people are so salty for that? I understand salty for being sold to some "AI first" Koreans, but for that new DLC?
spark flume
Oh no they blew it. If you want to sell skins, you better make them look good
I mean skins that was their monetization that was super important
void ermine
I wouldnt buy cheap skins that look bad
fervent lintel
Are you really gonna be upset if a skin isn't perfect at $2-3?
zinc blaze
That new dlc will be available for free to owners of LE, why people are so salty...
the paradox class is paid
the rest of the dlc is free
void ermine
Are you really gonna be upset if a skin isn't perfect at $2-3?
Not mad, i just wouldnt buy it
spark flume
Are you really gonna be upset if a skin isn't perfect at $2-3?
I think if you bother animating a skins and stuff to fit all the characters you may as well make it decent in passing x)
I think to make recolor, cheap stuff you have to have a solid amount of skins available already
fervent lintel
The base models were not too amazing in the first place. Not sure how good you expect the skins to get.
pliant coral
the paradox class is paid
Oh, so that sucks
void ermine
You cant keep a paying ARPG audience with yearly updates.
spark flume
for me games with pay walled content it's always a turn off
like you come back to the game
you got 60 dollar of stuff to buy
to experience the full game
after 2 years the "complete game" is 3 time more expensive than the game
then you get destiny
zinc blaze
after 2 years the "complete game" is 3 time more expensive than the game
I stopped playing destiny 2 for like 6 months cause college... came back to a chunk of my old content being gone + needing to buy like 3 expansions
I did not keep playing destiny 2
void ermine
I stopped playing destiny 2 for like 6 months cause college... came back to a ch...
Me too, same story
zinc blaze
Me too, same story
I miss shooting the sweet business
at least arc raiders has a torrente
spark flume
it's same with D4 I thought maybe I should try I didn't play for 8 season but there is an 70 dollar expansion and im not playing if I can't enjoy the full game and new stuff
zinc blaze
and helldivers is getting a minigun too
spark flume
it's same with D4 I thought maybe I should try I didn't play for 8 season but t...
so I didn't buy the expansion and didn't try the game to see if it's better
void ermine
so I didn't buy the expansion and didn't try the game to see if it's better
The last season was the best season yet. But its only marginably improved if that makes sense. Snd from what i hear on PTR, they are screwing everything up with next season. Dont bother with D4
acoustic palm
if you want to ask EHG questions, they did a q&a as they value communication: https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1p6igzf/qa_expansion_paradox_classes_and_roadmap/ feel free to ask your questions there
spark flume
tbh I would never bother ith D4 but I was sooo bored
at that moment
xD
tbh I don't see any question worth asking
everything's been said
void ermine
I will just hold my horses for LE. they have to show what they can cook. If expansion is bad the game will be dead.
acoustic palm
the meme is that the comments are locked
spark flume
people are just gonna ask passive aggressive question
spark flume
the meme is that the comments are locked
lol obviously
to be fair there is no way to have any genuine discussion
right now
ppl are too mad
fervent lintel
Fr
spark flume
2/3 will be passive aggressiveness or insults
fervent lintel
People come at them with outrage and no solutions
spark flume
and I understand
acoustic palm
lol obviously
yeah but that was made like 4 days ago before the outrage
spark flume
really?
void ermine
Honestly, it doesnt matter what EHG will say until new content drops.
spark flume
yeah but that was made like 4 days ago before the outrage
I tried to see in a positive light and not assume the worst but idk then
acoustic palm
I tried to see in a positive light and not assume the worst but idk then
you can see that it was posted 4 days ago
pliant coral
I will just hold my horses for LE. they have to show what they can cook. If expa...
But first 1-2 seasons was bad and boring, i felt like i play diablo 3 - they add nothing game-changing
just more options for farming uniques
void ermine
But first 1-2 seasons was bad and boring, i felt like i play diablo 3 - they add...
Yeah. Doesnt mean they cant improve though
spark flume
you can see that it was posted 4 days ago
they said not pay win but sadly even subconsciouscly when you make a content that you know will make your company money you will likely put a bit more effort than if they would make a free one
poe devs said they notice their artist/devs when making skins could do this mistake
not consciously
fervent lintel
they said not pay win but sadly even subconsciouscly when you make a content tha...
Especially when the company livelihood is on the line
void ermine
New classes are ALWAYS op, paid or not. You can trivialize all game content as is already.
muted cape
Season 1 and 2 were great. 3 was decent but nowhernear as big as Season 2
spark flume
Especially when the company livelihood is on the line
even when not trying on purpose yeah
for me season always felt a bit lackluster
a bit washed down
I always felt everyhing felt the same to do
acoustic palm
Season 1 and 2 were great. 3 was decent but nowhernear as big as Season 2
yeah, i really loved the new bosses added in season 3, the new classes were good too. I liked the changes added in the new in game systems the most
spark flume
in poe content seem more unique
spark flume
yeah, i really loved the new bosses added in season 3, the new classes were good...
I never managed to get to the ultra boss
my build failed before even getting to 300 corruption
then I quit
south moat
Season 1 and 2 were great. 3 was decent but nowhernear as big as Season 2
Well yeah, considering how long season 2 was getting cooked
fervent lintel
I never wanted LE to have the 3mo cycle that POE did, but more than 6 is a bit much
muted cape
Give it a couple years and le will have so much stuff to do it will be like poe :d
fervent lintel
Give it a couple years and le will have so much stuff to do it will be like poe ...
If it survives that long
muted cape
If it survives that long
People been saying that for years too :d
fervent lintel
It took POE like 7-8 years to reach that point
pliant coral
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970 So that 1.4 cycle is unlocking your money's true potential ;D
muted cape
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970 So that 1.4 cycle is unlo...
Outdated and completely different now
spare gulch
pliant coral
2026 beginning they said
inner finch
Early next year, no specific date
fervent lintel
That's probably the bigger issue than the monetization itself
I may not have bought the MTX, but I have bought 4 copies of the game--my friends just don't come back because it's so long between updates
wet heron
I see everyone trashing on last epoch’s class decision now lol. Not looking good
main frigate
Less than 215000 members in this server 
cobalt fable
really everytime I forget about LE for months
well big things happened, not the way you think tho
acoustic palm
I mean, it's easy to be forgotten under a huge wave of games and updates
yeah, we just had an update 4 days ago
not the kind of update people want tho
cobalt fable
krafton dont do anything good ever
spark flume
I checked and that's true
it bought mlany game
and not any of their gamle improved
anyway
acoustic palm
yeah, if LE was bought by tencent it would be much better
tencent only takes the control if you do bad
spiral shoal
yeah, if LE was bought by tencent it would be much better
go look at what poe is like in the china servers.... its not the same game anymore
acoustic palm
go look at what poe is like in the china servers.... its not the same game anymo...
well, yeah, but i'm not chinese, so the chances of me playing in china server is very small
they have a different mindset there, pay to win is a pride there
fervent lintel
POE has been with 10c for awhile, but also POE2 development knee-capped them hard, and they lost CWilson
acoustic palm
and they still have 35% profit margin
fervent lintel
Settlers league was amazing tho
spark flume
and ggg never disappointed me tbh they always deliver
acoustic palm
yeah, let;s not act like poe is not making shit tons of cash
weary egret
Hello ?? wtf is happening with devs ??? they promised no Paid content outside of cosmetics and NOW they have paid Class ???????
spiral shoal
but like seriously everyone here just complaining, like what are they suppose to do? the games averaging 2k players vs the tens of thousands of the other games, they cant keep the lights on forever without changing things, so instead of saying this is bad and i dont like, offer up something else
fervent lintel
and ggg never disappointed me tbh they always deliver
They disappointed me many, many times. They just also sometimes really nail it.
spark flume
They disappointed me many, many times. They just also sometimes really nail it.
me it didn't really happen but im quite understanding so iml not mad easily
acoustic palm
They disappointed me many, many times. They just also sometimes really nail it.
you explain my relationship with my parents
very well
fervent lintel
10c are your parents?
acoustic palm
i wish
fervent lintel
😄
I haven't followed the current season of LE much tbh. I tried it for a few hours on launch and it just felt super tedious, so I played something else.
Don't know if it was liked or not, but I didn't
acoustic palm
I may get banned if I say how I tried LE firstly 😄
I wish there was a way to chargeback nowadays, If I knew they would go this way I would not have bought the support packages
simple bison
@stone edge The game wasn't making money, Krafton buying it doesn't mean they're just gonna fund a studio that's in the red forever. Basically Krafton is EHG's safety net while they try to turn a profit.
spark flume
right now im playing my childhood mmo quite fun, everyone there is my age
so it's quite chill
fervent lintel
All my childhood MMOs are dead
zinc blaze
is wizard101 still alive
fervent lintel
EQ, WoW, PSO, etc
spark flume
low moon
wizard 101 just yeets me back 14 years
fervent lintel
Same sub fee--not same cost
acoustic palm
yeah, same sub
zinc blaze
wow's monthly sub is a better deal now when you consider it gets you retail and the like 15 versions of classic
acoustic palm
wow's monthly sub is a better deal now when you consider it gets you retail and ...
if you do some gdkp, you can buy expansions with gold too
fervent lintel
wow's monthly sub is a better deal now when you consider it gets you retail and ...
Until you realize that you don't want to play any of those versions
zinc blaze
wizard 101 just yeets me back 14 years
death school 4 ever
acoustic palm
as a healer, I always did that
zinc blaze
Until you realize that you don't want to play any of those versions
but I like classic wow
fervent lintel
If you can enjoy it, by all means. Do so. No hate.
zinc blaze
If you can enjoy it, by all means. Do so. No hate.
it gives me something to do while listening to 9 hour video lectures with a professor's monotone voice for attendance credit
proper sluice
right now im playing my childhood mmo quite fun, everyone there is my age
I used to play that too lol
low moon
death school 4 ever
I was a myth mf, my 12 year old self was fascinated by summoning creatures from myths
proper sluice
right now im playing my childhood mmo quite fun, everyone there is my age
still there's no better crafting system
zinc blaze
I was a myth mf, my 12 year old self was fascinated by summoning creatures from ...
valid
fervent lintel
I just want to play Firefall again
zinc blaze
younger's me thing was death and life 
fervent lintel
But bro too busy with Twitter drama and not making games now
zinc blaze
healed me friends and could keep myself alive while doing damage
low moon
healed me friends and could keep myself alive while doing damage
I also absolutely loved the whole questionaire like a sorting hat of what kind of wizard you were
zinc blaze
I also absolutely loved the whole questionaire like a sorting hat of what kind o...
the charm of wizard101 is peak
fervent lintel
That's how WoW used to be
acoustic palm
I mean, number wise, wow it's more popular than ever if you count Asia too
zinc blaze
That's how WoW used to be
thats part of why i like classic wow, the game is like anti-streamlined
fervent lintel
I didn't like Vanilla as much as BC/Wrath tbh
fervent lintel
I mained a Draenei Shaman for a long time, switched to Warrior in Cata, then the dumpster fire that is Pandas dropped and I permanently quit like 2 weeks in
severe socket
Don't even get me started on the abomination that is HUNTER WITH MANA
fervent lintel
Don't even get me started on the abomination that is HUNTER WITH MANA
As God intended
zinc blaze
every weapon is a hunter weapon
severe socket
LOL, EXACTLY
fervent lintel
Hey, you get that juicy INT -> AP scaling and your shots love spell power. Why not?
severe socket
I mained a hunter/priest combo throughout every thick and thin until quitting for good amid MoP.
A MM(!) hunter / holy+disc priest to be specific.
fervent lintel
And more INT means a bigger battery before you need to cycles into Viper
severe socket
Uh, no. Nope nope nope dot avi. NOPE.
Things only started going much better for hunters from cata onwards when focus FINALLY took over.
inner finch
No Warrior no honor.
severe socket
And EVEN THEN it took them forever to make it actually good.
fervent lintel
You don't need to give that staff to the vendor machine taxi. Give it to the dps hunter instead.
spark flume
@proper sluicethey stopped making the game on adobe flash now it's like way more hd with visual effect, new character animations and ton of stuff you should check out
zinc blaze
that wailing cavern staff that gives 7 int, 7 stam, 7 spirit is peak for hunter
proper sluice
<@682970018220474410>they stopped making the game on adobe flash now it's like w...
I've played the dofus 3.0 a couple of years ago, i was even milkin dreams but then i got bored
fervent lintel
Honestly, I hated focus. Glad I only had to deal with it for one expac before the rest of the game went to such sh*t that I put it down for good.
zinc blaze
I wonder how the next survival rework is gonna go
their seemingly keeping the bomb throwing part of it
fervent lintel
At this point, I won't sub for three main reasons:
- They don't have a version I want to play
- They botched Wrath Classic, hard
- They keep shutting down private servers while offering nothing similar
Vanilla Class is faithful enough that yeah, I could see we don't really need Nostalrius anymore. But they don't do anything like Turtle or that other custom one (forgetting the name atm)
Ascension? Maybe? Spacing it hard
severe socket
Actiblizz: "if I can't have it, no one can"
Also actiblizz: "am I so out of touch? no, of course not, it's the private server admins who're in the wrong"
fervent lintel
Also, the GDKP thing got out of hand during Wrath Classic. In a vacuum, I understand the arguments of the people who are pro- , but that isn't the Wrath I used to love and it doesn't belong there.
zinc blaze
severe socket
You know what else used to infuriate me to no end back in the day?
GEAR SCORE.
NO FREAKING THANK YOU.
fervent lintel
During live Wrath, it was something some people took a little too seriously, but most didn't. After Wrath, it was toxic f*** the rest of the game's life.
Oh, Bellular just dropped a video about Krafton vs Subnautica 2
Definitely boosting the confidence of the EHG deal with them, lol
severe socket
Heh.
acoustic palm
I always played in a guild and gear score was never s problem
Especially as a healer
fervent lintel
Same--having lots of friends on server helped a lot too
scenic fog
# GEAR SCORE.
The ultimate gate keeping tool, gotta hate it.
It is as redundant as recruiting for entry level jobs with an experience requirement...
fervent lintel
You play a character for 2+ years on a server consistently and it turns out nobody cares about your GS when they know you play well
Man, this video is damning... I hope EHG don't get screwed the same way, but it's the risk when you make a deal with the devil
acoustic palm
You play a character for 2+ years on a server consistently and it turns out nobo...
Yeah, nowadays people' care about parses, because let's be real there are many bad people in wow too and the difference between a blue parses and a grey one it's very big.
scenic fog
I'm falling out of love with the MMO genre... been playing MMO's since the beginning, starting to notice a change in my game preferences.
fervent lintel
We had parses back then too, but we competed for the best parse. We didn't exclude people for bad parses so much as try to find out what they're doing wrong and how to fix it. (Benefit of a guild)
acoustic palm
I mean, blue parse isn't hard to achieve, expecting that in a pug means that person knows the mechanic and he knows his rotation
fervent lintel
One of our dps just couldn't get it. His parses were always atrocious. We switched him to off-tank and suddenly he could play very well. Some things just click better than others for some people.
acoustic palm
Grey parse means that the person died during the fight. Green means that the person doesn't know his class
Especially during early expansions when you had like 3 button mechanic
fervent lintel
One of our guys was just playing the wrong class. He sucked at Warrior but did very well with Paladin.
acoustic palm
There are also people that perform better on other classes yeah
fervent lintel
I played most classes--the least was Warlock and Druid
So I was pretty well-rounded, but I loved my Shaman
acoustic palm
I was a priest and shaman healer mostly
scenic fog
Oh God... Kira just dropped a video 3 hours ago dooming Last Epoch...
fervent lintel
Kira who?
severe socket
It is as redundant as recruiting for entry level jobs with an experience require...
My reality -_-
scenic fog
Kira who?
Kira does gaming news videos, he digs up bad news, essentially. I don't think I have ever seen him do a positive video. Ever.
acoustic palm
I will be worried when bigger name does it like Josh or That detective channel touches LE
fervent lintel
I would need more than just an upset YTer
acoustic palm
Well, these 2 guys have more followers than LE had players
And many times they get answers from companies directly
fervent lintel
Haven't heard of them--at least not by those names
acoustic palm
So they aren't randoms like us
fervent lintel
But I am more concerned with the situation/facts than random people's opinions
A lot of the backlash going on right now is just reactionary knee-jerking with little regard for the reality of the situation
acoustic palm
In short nerd slayer and JoshStrafePlays got a bigger each than LE reddit
fervent lintel
Oh, that Josh
acoustic palm
The first one does deathofagame series
fervent lintel
He doesn't tend to be super negative tho
acoustic palm
The other one plays mmorpgs.
fervent lintel
He tries to call balls and strikes, but not really a doomer
acoustic palm
True
I Actually played some games after I saw his "worst mmo I ever played"
Since he shows the good and the bad and not all of them are doods.
inner finch
one thing EHG can get a benefit from is that... the internet moves on fast
fervent lintel
That's the main thing that's hurting them, imho. EHG doesn't keep up.
acoustic palm
I mean except dedicated LE players, no one really knows about that Reddit post
inner finch
wait what reddit post
acoustic palm
In which paid DLCs are spoke about
fervent lintel
Yeah, I didn't hear about it from Reddit either
acoustic palm
That's how I heard. How did you?
fervent lintel
Rhykker did a video talking about what we know so far
He follows a number of ARPGs
acoustic palm
Point still stands, I don't think the average gamer knows about this
Since LE isn't the most known Arpg
inner finch
Sometimes games arent getting the attention you think they will get
fervent lintel
The glacial development/seasonal cycle puts a lot of people off tho
inner finch
@fervent lintel You know Soulstone Survivors, that's like, the most classical case of "probably best in its genre, nobody is talking about it"
acoustic palm
Also, krafton stocks are decreasing too, since none of their IP are doing wow
fervent lintel
<@287049671485030401> You know Soulstone Survivors, that's like, the most classi...
I love that game, lol
inner finch
Soulstone Survivors is the best arena horde roguelite and everyone is playing much much inferior games in this genre
acoustic palm
Krafton losing money can affect EHG too
fervent lintel
Also, krafton stocks are decreasing too, since none of their IP are doing wow
Probably doesn't help they try to scam their studios
spark flume
Krafton losing money can affect EHG too
they just came and probably already affected it ngl
acoustic palm
Yeah, that doesn't make people too happy, yeah.
fervent lintel
Soulstone Survivors is the best arena horde roguelite and everyone is playing mu...
Yeah, it is quite excellent. DRG Survivors and TemTem Swarm are good too.
acoustic palm
Ah, I see ziziran also covered it
acoustic palm
I guess all the streamers that play all arpgs are going to cover it
inner finch
@spark flume you want tinfoil?
ill give you the craziest tinfoil take
all of this was set to catch as much fire as possible from media to convince the bosses this is a stupid way to approach monetization
inner finch
plush karma
u can change mastery now?
spark flume
all of this was set to catch as much fire as possible from media to convince the...
oh I see like the other game
spark flume
u can change mastery now?
y
fervent lintel
The problem is the content creators all gonna be like "Game I like bought/partnered with shady publisher I don't like. Ded gaem!"
acoustic palm
you could in season 2 too
fervent lintel
Super not interested in the obvious mid takes there
spark flume
i wonder what aaron will say
isn't he the big LE shill
im not saying this in a bad way
i should have worded it in another way
austere totem
damn brothers, what happened
plush karma
true. u worded it in a chronically online way lmao
spark flume
true. u worded it in a chronically online way lmao
Idk how to say it xD
other than copying how other talk
fervent lintel
damn brothers, what happened <:heavybreathing:570777048696619048>
Company in crisis, promises broken, fans in uproar... lack of compassion/understanding all around.
plush karma
Idk how to say it xD
ye na i get it
inner finch
i wonder what aaron will say
Aaron spoke of this situation in lengths
And I think he is very fair
austere totem
are they gonna put classes behind paywall now? that would be unwise
fervent lintel
At least the next class, so far
acoustic palm
They didn't say much, but that's all we know
fervent lintel
That's the Plan™ but we'll see if they reconsider
plush karma
are they gonna put classes behind paywall now? that would be unwise
you WILL fall in line. you WILL stop caring
its just neurotic uproar. new shiny thing to be neurotic about will drop next week
austere totem
$4.99 to unlock void knight??? 😭
wary stump
monetizing new class release is the dumbest thing they could do
plush karma
yep
austere totem
why not follow POE's
fervent lintel
No, it's really not. I can think of A LOT of much dumber things, lol
fervent lintel
Make you pay each season to play the new content. Otherwise play base game free.
THAT would be much dumber.
austere totem
I think they really messed up by releasing the big bad guy on base game instead of in expansions
acoustic palm
They already said that the game code doesn't allow a mechanic with too many mobs at once, in a reddit
A lot of work has to be done to correct the old code
That's why most mechanics are One mob only
plush karma
No, it's really not. I can think of A LOT of much dumber things, lol
its true. ppl just feel upset because they get told to feel upset that they broke a pinky swear
pinky promise
fervent lintel
Nobody wants to pay for classes, but it's not the worst idea. It works okay in Torchlight Infinite
austere totem
bandwagon hate
wary stump
instead of hiring talent artists releasing mtx that people can buy and support instead of the mid af skins in the shop, they wouldn't have to monetize class release and lose their player base and eventually die
plush karma
worked for diablo 3 too :P
acoustic palm
Nobody *wants* to pay for classes, but it's not the worst idea. It works okay in...
torchlight makes the classes free after one league
austere totem
instead of hiring talent artists releasing mtx that people can buy and support i...
THIS. this so much
fervent lintel
torchlight makes the classes free after one league
That's why people don't cry much about it
acoustic palm
Tbh, they are hiring a new director, many new art people, a new design lead too
fervent lintel
If it were me, I'd seek to move it away from the Live Service model and into a more content modular model (like Cities Skylines or Civilization series).
acoustic palm
So they need to fix the past code to allow better leagues, all while providing a new content
austere totem
last epoch 2 then
acoustic palm
The situation it's harder than just add more content
They don't have the infrastructure that Poe 1 has.
inner finch
also spaghetti code
fervent lintel
The Live Service expectation is killing it. They clearly can't keep up the pace and it's extremely costly to try--all while nobody wants their overpriced and undercooked MTX.
They were banking on the good will of the players to help sustain their MTX sales, but they have lost that now.
acoustic palm
Yeah, I don't think I saw worse MTX than LE in any arpg
inner finch
Its a combination of things if you ask me. Not just the MTX choices, but the whole UI and approach to it in game
fervent lintel
Some of them are pretty decent--but way too expensive for what they are
acoustic palm
Even the capybara is low quality
fervent lintel
I think the insistence that you can't auto-loot shards turns a lot of people away too
austere totem
Its a combination of things if you ask me. Not just the MTX choices, but the who...
story too
inner finch
It took me up to season 2 to back on the 300 epoch points i got from the 2018 kickstarter pledge
fervent lintel
It's not because that one feature not being there is a deal-breaker, but because of what it says about the dev's attitude about it.
And I like the devs, don't get me wrong. I'm just saying that sort of thing is pretty off-putting.
inner finch
MTXs were always a side thing. "nah, next patch, no biggie, no rush"
We were given cute 1-2 MTXs every major event till release, just to commemorate
acoustic palm
Also, in a way I am surprised that EHG sold themselves for financial reasons and people were expecting the new company to not be more aggressive in monetisation
inner finch
As a reminder - there are still MTX categories with 0 items
acoustic palm
Krafton didn't buy LE out of their good heart. They want to make money too
So they want to get that 96m too, plus a profit.
inner finch
Krafton has a history of heavily miscalculating the value of studios
acoustic palm
So I am pretty sure that they will add more things to buy
inner finch
Thinking Subnautica is worth a total of 750m when the first game barely broke 150m in revenue is some delusion
fervent lintel
Fr
acoustic palm
The bad part? Krafton is losing value, so EHG doesn't have the best parent company
inner finch
Pray for an outside intervention to buy EHG off of Krafton when they keep losing value
acoustic palm
It's like Ubisoft that lost 90% of value in 5 years and they had to take a 1.5B loan from tencent.
inner finch
Its usually what happens next, liquidations
Problem is - investment firms usually sit on those like the vultures they are
inner finch
I honestly can't believe David Brevik's firm nearly had a situation of taking EHG under its wings, its wild
acoustic palm
Yeah, game could have been way different now
zinc blaze
I honestly can't believe David Brevik's firm nearly had a situation of taking EH...
no idea who that is
is that a firm thats death for any game
inner finch
David Brevik is Diablo's creator
fervent lintel
I really think the devs need to have an open conversation with the players about what the players feel is fair to monetize--that they would actually want to buy
inner finch
I really think the devs need to have an open conversation with the players about...
This is the part of the communication that fell through
fervent lintel
I don't see how else they get out of this intact
inner finch
EHG did what sick animals do, get lost in some dark corner and wait to die
Players weren't aware of an approaching bankruptcy
modest jetty
It would be more understanding if the game was failing but they recently announced 3m copies sold, even at just 5 bucks profit on each of those it makes it a resounding success, and we KNOW they get more out of it than that.
acoustic palm
Imo this news should have never been shared, they just told us that in 1 year we need to pay more, a big PR blunder
fervent lintel
It would be more understanding if the game was failing but they recently announc...
Except for the years of development that they weren't making money
acoustic palm
They told us nothing but we need to pay more, nothing about the actual game, about end game, about bug fixes
People were expecting season 4 news
inner finch
3m copies, make it 90m in sales over 2 years, cut taxes and other payments out and you're with maybe 60m, now divide to to 40-55 developers paychecks over those 2-4 years, cut other expenses off of it - you're left with nothing
modest jetty
Except for the years of development that they weren't making money
you really expect me to think that on a 30 dollar game, at 3m sold, they LOST all that?
acoustic palm
Yes
fervent lintel
I think the response from the players needs to shift from broken promises and outrage to "Let's have that conversation about legitimate monetization."
acoustic palm
steam takes 30% cut
fervent lintel
you really expect me to think that on a 30 dollar game, at 3m sold, they LOST al...
Very much
modest jetty
Then I have nothing more to say to you because that is ridiculous
acoustic palm
That's what they said too, that they hired too many people and that their seasons weren't profitable
fervent lintel
Then I have nothing more to say to you because that is ridiculous
Prove otherwise
acoustic palm
Believe it or not, that's what the ex owner of the company said (Judd).
inner finch
other EHG employees also echoed it
glass pebble
just downlaod the game again,, then i see krafton buy this game
modest jetty
That is literally just game copies, no MTX, no founders, none of that. I refuse to believe that. If by some chance it is, then they should have spent more on their accountants.
fervent lintel
just downlaod the game again,, then i see krafton buy this game
It's very playable and enjoyable and it's probably at least a year out before any of the drama becomes relevant
inner finch
@acoustic palm there's one thing i forgot in my calculations - server uptime cost across different realms is extremely high, we're talking tens of thousands of dollars burning in a furnace every single month
fervent lintel
That is literally just game copies, no MTX, no founders, none of that. I refuse ...
You're only looking at income, not expenses
glass pebble
dont see the point of paid DLC, for an enterprise focusing on ai
fervent lintel
The DLC isn't paid
modest jetty
No, Im not, I literally said if they made 5 bucks of each sold copy, at 3m a piece it's still a good run
fervent lintel
(So far)
acoustic palm
<@522340066169978883> there's one thing i forgot in my calculations - server upt...
Yeah, each person that plays the game regularly, cost them 1 euro per month
fervent lintel
No, Im not, I literally said if they made 5 bucks of each sold copy, at 3m a pie...
Who says they were making money on it?
inner finch
I remember running a totally legit server for a totally legit game for a community that didnt wanna play the offi... uhh.. other version of that game
and every month we had to fight to keep this stuff alive
glass pebble
Path of exile have the same monetization system ...
fervent lintel
No, it doesn't
modest jetty
Literally the acquisition paperwork says they made 67.8M overall on the game
acoustic palm
Nope
fervent lintel
Literally the acquisition paperwork says they made 67.8M overall on the game
There's a difference between revenue and profit
acoustic palm
Poe has hideouts to sell portals, stashes for new people and MTX that's actually good
modest jetty
Yes, because Krafton bought a game losing money
glass pebble
the game dont loose money
acoustic palm
Poe has support packs that are worth like 300 euro too for the whales
zinc blaze
Path of exile have the same monetization system ...
poe is free to play and in theory you never have to spend a dime on it, in practice you spend at least 20-40 dollars on stash tabs to make the end game enjoyable to play
LE is a game you buy into with an initial price tag
modest jetty
You can think whatever you want, they sold to make themselves money, and while I don't fault them for that, I can still be disappointed in them walking back their promises after backing them for so long.
inner finch
PoE has tons and tons of >$500 players, since the community is a lot more robust
zinc blaze
having an initial price tag changes expectations heavily for a lot of people
fervent lintel
You're just making up your own facts, lol. They said they were facing bankruptcy, and publishers sometimes buy faltering companies to price them up and try to make a profit on it
modest jetty
Im not making up anything, it's literal public information in their acquisition paperwork, but have a good day friendo.
spark flume
you are all still fighting
glass pebble
PoE has tons and tons of >$500 players, since the community is a lot more robust
thats why Last Epoch need an initial price, but after that they rely on cosmetic and other thing to have some money comming
acoustic palm
you are all still fighting
what are we supposed to do? game had no new content
we are making our own content
glass pebble
D4 have the same work
spark flume
what are we supposed to do? game had no new content
I mean not like you are doing something illegal x)
inner finch
thats why Last Epoch need an initial price, but after that they rely on cosmetic...
LE was simply not ready to "fight" against PoE on its own rules. Simple as. The game was not ready, the studio was not ready
acoustic palm
Stop comparing LE with Poe and Diablo, they got huge fan bases and MTX that look good and sell
LE MTX looks worse than AI and it's only for like 5 skills
fervent lintel
It didn't need to try to "beat" POE. It just needed to give players reason to come back and want to buy the MTX.
obtuse bay
today Ive seen 2 youtubers shared a video about le and they weren't le youtubers, drama farming 😭
inner finch
LE didnt try to beat PoE, but to play using the same rules, and that just doenst work
spark flume
it hurts my soul that "they have mtx that look good " is a genuine argument like that's real but that's so dumb
digital oriole
Yup drama farming
spark flume
totally true but wtf
zinc blaze
you are all still fighting
we talked about MMOs for like an hour earlier
modest jetty
There's always gonna be drama farming sadly
prime kelp
Paid classes for a game we already pay to play?, lol
spark flume
we talked about MMOs for like an hour earlier
dofus is the best one
fervent lintel
Paid classes for a game we already pay to play?, lol
Plenty of games do it
spark flume
😂
prime kelp
Plenty of games do it
name a good one
glass pebble
they are all ARPG, they are all different but at the end, player will go on the one they prefer, i dont care buying stash tabs in PoE, if LE have something like that i would probably buy it too
modest jetty
I wouldn't mind paying for them if they had been like, yo, we messed up, this will help us keep things open and providing content. Cool fam, give me those 5 dollar classes.
fervent lintel
name a good one
Good is subjective, and you're just looking to try to aim that at any examples
acoustic palm
it hurts my soul that "they have mtx that look good " is a genuine argument lik...
I mean, yeah, when I see some Poe MTX my dopamine increases, when I see some LE MTX that I own, I don't wanna use that
spark flume
wizard101 in the house
I don't know it, I think from the name it sounds like the kind of game you can find inside rock beside dinosaurs fossils
fervent lintel
I mean, yeah, when I see some Poe MTX my dopamine increases, when I see some LE ...
Skill MTX are the best ones--those are most of my POE purchases
spark flume
I mean, yeah, when I see some Poe MTX my dopamine increases, when I see some LE ...
I totally agree it's just that making skins wasn't supposed to be a skill check
glass pebble
Plenty of games do it
The only difference is that ARPGs that release a paid class have a lot more hours under their belt than LE. Releasing a paid DLC when the game isn’t even finished yet is a bit ridiculous…
fervent lintel
I totally agree it's just that making skins wasn't supposed to be a skill check
But it was because the base models look like AI from 3 years ago
spark flume
But it was because the base models look like AI from 3 years ago
yeah they are atrocious for me it was insane they were supposded to make money from this
acoustic palm
Skill MTX are the best ones--those are most of my POE purchases
And do you know what I love about GGG? They accept every refund request. I refunded a skill that I bought in 2022, cuz it wasn't meta and dog nowadays and they gave me my points back.
fervent lintel
The only difference is that ARPGs that release a paid class have a lot more hour...
"Isn't even finished" lol -- you're just looking for reasons to hate. It's well past official release.
spark flume
And do you know what I love about GGG? They accept every refund request. I refun...
I feel like that's a bit much to ask 😮 you used the skil plenty
I mean good for you
spark flume
but they shoudln't do that
fervent lintel
Yeah, but good CS goes a long, long way
acoustic palm
I feel like that's a bit much to ask 😮 you used the skil plenty
Yeah, I told them that my eyes aren't as good anymore, and that's it. They refunded the whole thing in 5 mins from me sending the mail
autumn briar
everyone such cheapskates. wonder what % of people complaining only bought base le for $35, never bought any mtx, play a bit every season then complain about everything
fervent lintel
If I know they are willing to refund something like that, I can buy anything with confidence.
modest jetty
But they still did, because GGG rolls like that, but that is also the benefit of being successful, you can do more things like that
spark flume
Yeah, I told them that my eyes aren't as good anymore, and that's it. They refun...
it's because of you, they lacked the 10 dollar of your skin and had to sell
so sad
why did you do this to us
acoustic palm
it's because of you, they lacked the 10 dollar of your skin and had to sell
I used the points to buy another skill tho
spark flume
fine then
fervent lintel
everyone such cheapskates. wonder what % of people complaining only bought base ...
I didn't buy MTX, but I bought 4 copies so my friends could play too--but the glacial updates kept most of them away
acoustic palm
Another thing, I bought a hideout. I didn't like it. Refunded no question asked
The one with the clock
spark flume
in poe they have a one refund policy
acoustic palm
That's false
fervent lintel
in poe they have a one refund policy
"Yes"
fervent lintel
Even LoL had good refund mechanisms
inner finch
Look, what's the worst thing that can happen, huh?
Bartender, just leave the bottle here
acoustic palm
Yeah, if you are civil about it, provide them a reason you want something refunded, you get it down in 5 mins.
fervent lintel
by mistake I bought a second currency tab
I would have been like, "You don't need to refund the money, but please refund the shop currency."
spark flume
I would have been like, "You don't need to refund the money, but please refund t...
yeah that's what I asked I wanted to buy other tabs
I asked to either refund or change them to X stash
acoustic palm
So yeah I am super happy with the refund policy
acoustic palm
yeah that's what I asked I wanted to buy other tabs
gonna send you what iw rote them for the 2022 skill
glass pebble
At the end of the day, there’s a much higher chance the game will end up being a dud, heading toward the pile of dead games since the Krafton acquisition — and judging by online polls, I’m not the only one who thinks so… EHG let the ship sink
acoustic palm
didn't put their coat on the dresser tet
check your dm, haha
fervent lintel
No, move away from the Live Service model. Run it like D2R and if/when you can make content, charge for that.
spark flume
check your dm, haha
it's almost like we brag about being polite and decent
that's a skill check nowadays
autumn briar
say the game dies in 12 months, can judd go and make le2?
acoustic palm
it's almost like we brag about being polite and decent
tbh, true
fervent lintel
Doubt he'd want to
acoustic palm
i found the interaction nice
autumn briar
legally though
fervent lintel
Depends if the IP belongs to Krafton now or not
acoustic palm
it's almost like we brag about being polite and decent
they also answered in 8 mins, so yeah, i'm glad to be their player, they treat me nice, i feel happy with how my money goes wit them
glass pebble
say the game dies in 12 months, can judd go and make le2?
Probably a clause on the selling to prohibe this
fervent lintel
Anything that transfers ownership of the IP implies this. Doesn't need a separate clause.
acoustic palm
say the game dies in 12 months, can judd go and make le2?
well, he sold the studio and the rights for the game, so any afficiliation with the game would get a cease and desist
spark flume
well, he sold the studio and the rights for the game, so any afficiliation with ...
the game was sold??
proper sluice
At the end of the day, there’s a much higher chance the game will end up being a...
I believe this kind of faithless line of thought here is damaging the future of the game much more than Krafton
acoustic palm
the whole company was sold to krafton
glass pebble
the game was sold??
To krafton
acoustic palm
we are talking about LE here
fervent lintel
I believe this kind of faithless line of thought here is damaging the future of...
Which is why I think they should change the model
acoustic palm
so EHG that held last epoch IP, was sold, JUDD can't make LE 2
modest jetty
I believe this kind of faithless line of thought here is damaging the future of...
only almost every game that has been in this sort of scenario has gone belly up before long. That is what is worrying a lot of people.
fervent lintel
only almost every game that has been in this sort of scenario has gone belly up ...
And justifiably so
modest jetty
I dont disagree
fervent lintel
so EHG that held last epoch IP, was sold, JUDD can't make LE 2
I imagine this whole thing would be pretty discouraging and demotivating. If he was to move on to make another game, it would likely be something totally different.
Even if the IP issue wasn't at play
proper sluice
Well, for their first indie game, this is still a masterpiece
proper sluice
So I think if they are sad, is definitely not because they didn't succeed, but rather just because they can't keep going the way they desire. But still, with a huge success on their cv
fervent lintel
Just because the monetization failed doesn't mean the game did
acoustic palm
I imagine this whole thing would be pretty discouraging and demotivating. If he ...
yeah, but thats the perks of receiving 96m euro
fervent lintel
Anyway, gotta go visit family. Y'all have a great weekend. ❤️ ❤️
proper sluice
I imagine this whole thing would be pretty discouraging and demotivating. If he ...
you too!
zinc blaze
Anyway, gotta go visit family. Y'all have a great weekend. ❤️ ❤️
Peace out 👋
acoustic palm
Anyway, gotta go visit family. Y'all have a great weekend. ❤️ ❤️
enjoy
proud steppe
hi again or re; the problem is that EHG is as a small indie studio it cant fight vs big studio as D4 or POE "X" once your starting money is gone and your total sold game doesnt make any more money you are F*cK and neeed more solution for continu so their sold their souls to the Demon Krafton
acoustic palm
-# well, by employees they have the same number of employees as GGG prior poe 2, or ... more than the people that made bangers like Kingdom Come Deliverance 2
proud steppe
what is done is done , now we have only choice to trust them or leave
acoustic palm
we just comment for fun, not like our rants will have any matter
severe socket
hi again or re; the problem is that EHG is as a small indie studio it cant fight...
Thing is, it's not an indie studio anymore. They lost that status the moment the krapton deal has been sealed.
As for "can't fight"... Should they in the first place?
My take is, they bit WAY too much more than they could chew.
digital oriole
we just comment for fun, not like our rants will have any matter
I posted Rules of Aquasition for fun....i got downvoted cuz i was "Defending it"
what is more funy when Expansion do comes out and DLCS they will be bought and they will STILL Complain
You can NEVER please some people
still cove
Is Last Epoch down? Says online play not available
cobalt fable
Is Last Epoch down? Says online play not available
is down in a sense that the game is ruined , its jover
acoustic palm
what is more funy when Expansion do comes out and DLCS they will be bought and t...
It's not the same people tho
I don't mind that people are angry. I am upset too.
digital oriole
I understand but i will buy DLC's cuz i wanna support but at my own grace
acoustic palm
I just prefer to rant it here than reddit.
digital oriole
Well i'm not mad about new classes
They have to make some cash
somehow
and MTX do not cut it
acoustic palm
I will not support them anymore in the nearby future
acoustic palm
and MTX do not cut it
Because once again. I played all the arpgs on the market and LE has the worst ones
People voted with their wallet.
acoustic palm
I can share you pics of 7 sets I own. And you will see that 5 of them are so ugly that you would never use them
digital oriole
That is your issue. I do not use cosmetics for beuty
I buy to support developer
i dont not even equip any of MTX if i did buy
acoustic palm
If Judd came here and said, hey Madliv we delete your LE account, but you get your bucks back. I would accept it
I am disappointed in LE, I supported them by good will
digital oriole
@mighty kelp Will you refund him? xD
inner finch
Yeah dont
acoustic palm
I feel like I did what I could as a player
digital oriole
But yea its game and they are learning as they go
not like they have 30 years of exp.
acoustic palm
Imo, the people that spent over 100 euro in the game, should get the class for free.
But that's me
digital oriole
But you do you, whatever makes you happy. That is all that matters TO you.
acoustic palm
Yeah, and LE made me happy in the past.
obtuse bay
just let's wait and see season 4, you don't need to buy season 4, you can still watch videos and decide
digital oriole
I'm just playing other 300 backlog games i have
acoustic palm
So I happily gave them 3 hours of my irl work
digital oriole
while i wait for update
acoustic palm
Yeah, season 4 will be free too. so I can play
it's just not more packs from me until things change.
obtuse bay
maybe the content will be so good and you will change your mind?
acoustic palm
And I think thars why people are angry. They want to see a change for the good.
digital oriole
Time will tell
acoustic palm
I mean, if the content is good. I will eat my words and buy more 😄
little lagoon
i'm just saying if they charge $20 they're directly competing with Silksong's price tag
digital oriole
hahaha
acoustic palm
I got what..
1000 hours for 100 dollars, that's very cheap
Like 3 visits at cinema or something
obtuse bay
I got what..
1000 hours for 100 dollars, that's very cheap
but for logically, seasons should be cheaper than base game
stoic frigate
I got over 2k if we count standalone, but I paid for a product with the stipulation that I wouldn't be paying for more non-cosmetic content. That has been broken, I'll take my support elsewhere.
digital oriole
capybara gimme, share pics
I've got over 500 hours
for 25$
so its worth but i'm looking for job
so i can live..
acoustic palm
Yeah, having food to eat it's important
digital oriole
I like game but I earn about 650$ a month
so 276$ for whole set is quite expensive to buy i need to pay other stuff
if i could buy right now i would...no question asked
acoustic palm
It's fine for the game to have expensive things, for the whales to buy
Doesn't mean the regular fella should get them
digital oriole
But i dont want to show off, i want to buy to suport
looking at Paradox Games....they have 20+ dlcs for each game
stoic frigate
Yes and Paradox game fans hate it and a large amount of them pirate
digital oriole
and each DLC got some contnet small or big it did improve game in small ways
I own most of DLCS
of paradox games
but my bother plays Strategy games
recently got 2x copies on stellaris
my bro owns most DLC's
We have double copiies
stoic frigate
@little lagoon <- huge Paradox fan who doesn't pay for the DLCs
digital oriole
lol
little lagoon
can confirm
digital oriole
ouch for callouts xD
little lagoon
?
stoic frigate
Ain't getting into my issues with Paradox's handling of WoD (especially in regards to Bloodlines 2; okay game, but not the same type of game as its predecessor and probably shouldn't be called Bloodlines 2)
little lagoon
what callouts
digital oriole
<@403945362169135105> <- huge Paradox fan who doesn't pay for the DLCs
this?
proud steppe
Thing is, it's _not_ an indie studio anymore. They lost that status the moment t...
i am not developer but i know what is the monthly cost of game server, hardware as software, networking and maintenance so all of this arent cheap and aside from that you must update your game so it add a lot of pressure overall so probably you are right in what you said
little lagoon
what about that is a callout lol
digital oriole
nothing
I can't put into words
since you had a balls to comfirm that you do pirate, arrrr Pirate!
digital oriole
understandable
stoic frigate
I pirate regularly I just have standards about what I pirate o/
little lagoon
nothing rly wrong with pirating
carmine smelt
I pirate regularly I just have standards about what I pirate o/
Same tbh, but I'll gladly pay for a game I end up enjoying
digital oriole
Same dude same
acoustic palm
We pirate everything, but not LE, ofc.
pearl orbit
i wish every game had a demo. its cool to see demos coming back this last year or so on steam. but it should be even more common
carmine smelt
tbh I've had a lot of fun playing some random indie demos the last year, just really different things I wouldn't normally pay for
pearl orbit
nextfest is great
stoic frigate
Same tbh, but I'll gladly pay for a game I end up enjoying
I make sure to pay for anything I pirate that isn't from a large corp later down the line. Sometimes it takes me a bit longer than I want, but I always do. Just don't always have the money to spare at the time and being alive comes first.
little lagoon
i've never pirated anything and at this point i stick by it so i can say that lol
stoic frigate
tbh I've had a lot of fun playing some random indie demos the last year, just re...
Real, lotsa indie demos around this year
digital oriole
I agree about being alive comes first
carmine smelt
so, music?
acoustic palm
Yeah, people dont count these, but they are expensive lol
little lagoon
wdym don't count them
carmine smelt
Dude TV shows make it really hard not to... Back when netflix had a lot of stuff I had that for the convenience, then it got more expensive, worse, and with fewer options
Some things I can't even easily watch without also paying for VPN
little lagoon
btw pirating is still an actionable crime
especially if you've pirated large equivalent sums of money
carmine smelt
some of us don't live in the US
pearl orbit
Dude TV shows make it really hard not to... Back when netflix had a lot of stuff...
you need to be subbed to 17 different streaming services now to get what netflix gave you alone 8 years ago
digital oriole
if i was in court i would had more than current highest extiminate companies combined would be more than luffy
little lagoon
do not confess to crimes on discord please
little lagoon
some of us don't live in the US
yes but discord works under us law
acoustic palm
Even now, Netflix offers less bitrate than sailing somwtomes
little lagoon
your account can very easily get deleted
obtuse bay
If you are living in eu, you can't also see some movies on cinema... you need to watch them online...
digital oriole
I was doing that @little lagoon when i was kid
little lagoon
please do not confess to crimes on discord
digital oriole
today i do own more than i can chew
proud steppe
it has been a long time since netflix USA has block vpn ip
acoustic palm
It was a joke tho, I usually buy my games and go to cinema
acoustic palm
I love cinema experience
digital oriole
I was in cinema
obtuse bay
absolute cinema 
digital oriole
Now i wanna go to watch Predaror :wildlands?
pearl orbit
i recommend to watch Naked Gun (remake)
i really did not enjoy this one
acoustic palm
Badlands
digital oriole
That was pure comedy and refrences
stoic frigate
Now i wanna go to watch Predaror :wildlands?
Supposedly it's pretty alright? Not sure, haven't seen it and not very in tune with the fans of the series
pearl orbit
wait, no, im sorry. the naked gun was good. i was thinking "one thing after another" - i didnt like that one. saw both recently. lol
digital oriole
||"P.L.O.T. Device"||
proud steppe
cinema isnt worth iit anymore so always waiting BD release
proud steppe
@digital oriole atm in the complex near where i leave now is around 15 bucks
proud steppe
15 cinema plave vs 25-30 butk the bluray no need to think anymore lol
little lagoon
i live in the cold menthol fire pits of hell. it's alright. food options aren't great tho
carmine smelt
where do you live that tickets are that much but wages 650$/m
digital oriole
Serbia/ Europe
carmine smelt
ah
digital oriole
You might get for a manager roughly 1k a month
1.3k most for top manager positions
for developers are ....depending on company
carmine smelt
ooo
carmine smelt
oh I thought you meant like tech
digital oriole
for tech is similar sadly
carmine smelt
wat
digital oriole
but again depends on comapny you work for
some companies will pay you 1.5-4k some will pay up to 1.5k
proud steppe
if the cost life is cheap it could be acceptable
acoustic palm
Damn
carmine smelt
I mean I would hope its more than acceptable, that's a 6 figure job in the US, even in affordable areas
thats pretty rough
little lagoon
well i mean six figure jobs are barely livable in a lot of places in the us nowadays
digital oriole
6 figure is 100k a year?
carmine smelt
yea
little lagoon
and above
carmine smelt
idk I'm skeptical
I always hear that but I feel like it's just lifestyle inflation
minor trench
Arizon the average HOUSE hold income is like $64k, if you can't comfortably live off $100k you aren't probably good at financial planning and understanding the difference between want and need.
acoustic palm
Damn, how much is food over there?
carmine smelt
Arizon the average HOUSE hold income is like $64k, if you can't comfortably live...
that's what I'm saying
acoustic palm
Minimal wage or?
carmine smelt
350e for one person for groceries? holy
digital oriole
Close to minimal
minor trench
At one point as a kids my parents income was 26k a year and we didn't even go on food stamps.
digital oriole
Example
pearl orbit
350e for one person for groceries? holy
Hawaiian prices
carmine smelt
Hawaii I know is expensive yeah but I figured Serbia would be cheaper
pearl orbit
i'd figure too
digital oriole
if minimal is 3.4$/h you can get up to 4-5 tops
for lower positons...includng tech support
minor trench
Biggest issue is these dumb asses who spend 150k+ on a liberal arts degree then cry when they can't get a job and blame everyone else but themselves for making a dumb ass decision or not having realistic expectations.
digital oriole
I had in NCR offer for bare minimum 3 shifts....
minor trench
Yet expect tax payers to bail them out of their college debt because their grown ass adult decision was a dumb one
digital oriole
and minimal ..no benefits for 70K or 700$
Roughly to say 100 dinars is rouglhy 1$
carmine smelt
There is some amount of "consequences of your actions" for sure, but also, it's hard to expect a fresh high school graduate to know exactly what they are getting into. I was always told that education was the default road to success growing up. Everywhere post secondary is pushed. If you don't go to uni you will be a failure. But it kinda felt like that isn't very true anymore.
pearl orbit
There is some amount of "consequences of your actions" for sure, but also, it's ...
It still trends true for stem
state schools / community college makes it affordable
carmine smelt
I mean even stem is pretty hit or miss
carmine smelt
A lot of the sciences make way less than trades which get paid to train, start their careers sooner, and without student loan debt.
digital oriole
Cuz you can't replace those with AI, it will give wrong meds and kill patiantes
carmine smelt
My wife is a scientist for reference, I am a software eng
she has a degree, I don't
digital oriole
I'm self taught developer whos making my own game
In worst engine by community "Unity"
carmine smelt
I'm self taught developer whos making my own game
nice! good stuff
pearl orbit
I'm self taught developer whos making my own game
Congrats and GL. Was there myself, didn't finish it tho.
carmine smelt
I did make a game in vanilla C# with windows form application for the lols, it was suprisingly fun
digital oriole
I'm making tower defense game with RPG equipment and loot beside of skills xD
Per each tower
carmine smelt
pog
digital oriole
My frist game was in Corporate Micofsoft Power Point xD
proud steppe
i dont really like tower def all this game are almost all the same
primal island
so what you gusy expecting of the new, season, and when?
pearl orbit
so what you gusy expecting of the new, season, and when?
early next year, and no idea what
carmine smelt
I am hoping for more end game stuff tbh, hopefully some changes to the end game gear progression, maybe some difficulty scaling mechanics or something to make the end game loop more dynamic
idk if thats coming, but if I could wave a wand
proud steppe
i will probably skip the S4 and S5
digital oriole
Currently having a blast of "Oxygen not included"
Game is ...something else i was expecting
proud steppe
the game is pretty hard
carmine smelt
I just started "Monsters are Coming" its kinda like half survivors, half tower defense, kinda neat
proud steppe
you can say i am stupid so
take a long time for all assimilate
but hte game was overall good enough
digital oriole
That is "skill issue" 😛
I even own Rimworld
And Prison Architect
And soo many indies
pearl orbit
necesse is crazy good
digital oriole
own it!
pearl orbit
top down terraria
digital oriole
That 2
proud steppe
i rarely see few indie games in good eyes
digital oriole
You are looking in wrong places
digital oriole
True
proud steppe
in the 5-6 last years only Oxygen / the 2 spelunky and probably 2 other games i have forgotten were good
pearl orbit
each year in indies game these is 90% trash and only 10% are good
yes but that end up being more good indies by sheer quantity
Hades 2 is indie, came out this year, and is probably the best roguelite ive ever played
proud steppe
my memory is broken again
pearl orbit
ball x pit is incredible. hell clock too
carmine smelt
ball x pit is incredible. hell clock too
I only played this a few months back but it felt really repetitive
idk if recent patches made it better
ball x pit was fun though
pearl orbit
idk if recent patches made it better
they did
proud steppe
i dislike rogue like but Rogue Legacy was so so for me
carmine smelt
hades 1 was a lot of fun, need to get around to trying 2
pearl orbit
hades 1 was a lot of fun, need to get around to trying 2
story is 80% as good, gameplay is twice as good imo
overall hades 2 is the better game
carmine smelt
as a non story enthusiast, sounds good
I still remember asking what "that thing" was after having 2000+ hours already in LE
"that thing" was "the epoch"
proud steppe
google search and i remember
autumn briar
"that thing" was "the epoch"
i still dont know what you're talking about
inner finch
@carmine smelt you'll like soulstone survivors
pearl orbit
<@181266504342306817> you'll like soulstone survivors
highly repetitive game that looks like it has vairety until you go deep and see it has none
inner finch
unfriended
pearl orbit
best survivors-like game imo is Rogue Genesia
carmine smelt
yeah that was my take too
it felt repetitive once I got in, a lot of the progression was very horizontal
inner finch
Look, ailment meta can get repetitive
carmine smelt
I didn't even do any meta stuff
inner finch
But there's lots of unlocks
carmine smelt
yeah but the unlocks feel arbitrarily gated
little lagoon
i think you all should play hit game Escape from Tarkov
tardy bison
best survivors-like game imo is Rogue Genesia
I agree
carmine smelt
oh do a level as X character so you can play with its ability, so you can actually play the character
pearl orbit
But there's lots of unlocks
Yes, but posion plays like doomm which plays like bleed which plays like crit which plays like...... and all the passives are the "same" and the grind is boring
soulstone is overrated honestly
carmine smelt
Then I had to do every stage on level 1 even if I've already done level 6 in another, etc.
carmine smelt
just doing trivial stuff over and over for the sake of unlocks on easy mode, that was soulstone for me
proud steppe
the 2 steam world dig / Hotline miami ( the 1 and not the 2 ) / Fez / bastion / Shovel Knight / the 2 spelunki but alredy say earlier / Darkest Dungeon / The Binding of Isaac and strangely Roket league is too in the ranking lol
little lagoon
are we talking exclusively survivor-likes or are rogue-likes on the table
pearl orbit
are we talking exclusively survivor-likes or are rogue-likes on the table
we mentioned both seperately
little lagoon
play Rogue
pearl orbit
hades 2 is the best roguelite ive ever played, i hate all roguelikes
little lagoon
eh
pearl orbit
play Rogue
ew roguelike
little lagoon
i want pyre 2
little lagoon
ew roguelike
?
carmine smelt
does megabonk count in here?
pearl orbit
RoR2 is good too but that's not new
acoustic palm
I want some donuts now
little lagoon
what's wrong with Rogue lol
pearl orbit
does megabonk count in here?
it counts but that game isnt good? it's kind of a streamer game, tiktok game
carmine smelt
I found it pretty fun tbh, I mean the highest level leaderboard push is toxic AF just reset farming forever but
inner finch
Hades 2 was surprisingly lukewarm to me
carmine smelt
I like the "skill" element of mechanics added to the survivor
pearl orbit
gunfire is a lot of fun for a roguelite fps
inner finch
Not because of mechanics but because I feel like it hasn't pushed hard enough to be unique from h1
Also story wasn't as fresh as the first take
pearl orbit
Not because of mechanics but because I feel like it hasn't pushed hard enough to...
yes but everything is refined
and it feels better
inner finch
Technically yea
pearl orbit
you dont need to reinvent the wheel when you nailed it right your first try
way more build variety in 2nd game
inner finch
I miss the shield
little lagoon
why haven't we mentioned gungeon lol
carmine smelt
enter the gungeon?
pearl orbit
enter the gungeon?
not a big bullet hell fan
carmine smelt
ehh I played that one a bit and yeah
it felt like too much bullet hell and less roguelike or whatever
little lagoon
it's still one of the best roguelites on the market
same with necrodancer and spelunky
carmine smelt
younger me would be into that, older me is more into strategy than just fast reaction sweaty dodging
pearl orbit
Noita >>
little lagoon
okay unc
inner finch
Noita very much
little lagoon
noita is great
inner finch
Noita requires inner strength
little lagoon
i'm a casual player lol
carmine smelt
same
stoic frigate
it felt like too much bullet hell and less roguelike or whatever
Gungeon is considered a gold standard roguelite within the genre's community, it's one of the few that has carved out a "this is a game that is a must play within all of these games" status
carmine smelt
really? damn
little lagoon
yes
carmine smelt
I was like eh, can't be bothered after not that long
pearl orbit
Gungeon is considered a gold standard roguelite within the genre's community, it...
I did play it, I didn't like it.
stoic frigate
Yeah. That, Binding of Isaac, and for some reason Hades (even though imo this one isn't really good at the whole roguelike/lite part)
little lagoon
I did play it, I didn't like it.
that's because you have bad taste
carmine smelt
Isaac I did enjoy though
inner finch
Isaac is gold medal in run variability to me
pearl orbit
isaac is way better than gungeon
inner finch
By light years
inner finch
I'm telling edmund
pearl orbit
maybe you have bad taste now 
little lagoon
design
stoic frigate
Isaac is what I like to consider a flawed masterpiece and every flaw in it is inherently due to Edmund thinking obfuscation = clever design
proud steppe
Hades seeems good but it is too much hardcore
little lagoon
no like accessibility dumbass
colors blending into each other, visibility, readability of combat
etcetera
pearl orbit
colors blending into each other, visibility, readability of combat
Limbo is a 10/10 and it has nothing but colors bleeding into colors