💬┃general

[thin scarab]

see what people are really saying here is that they are lazy and wish they could get all passives and idol slots for 0 time played

after the first time

[calm zodiac]

Man i'm honestly machinating some crazy classes here in my head rn lol

[indigo cloud]

Is the main campaign even finished yet

[thorny sapphire]

I don't imagine it being more than €15 or €20

[thin scarab]

its a really cool concept forsure

[thin scarab]

same, it's a non issue

[visual wadi]

wouldnt ppl not buying the new classes and just playing the free content evenually put them back into the same spot?

[fading raven]

nope

[indigo mist]

I dont really get that mindset. I like the campaign and the fact that there are skips already in the game is enough though.

[thin scarab]

it is

[calm zodiac]

I really hope we can get some futuristic class as part of the paradox classes

[thin scarab]

use your league starter to farm twink gear, put twink in monos at 25, go get pasives and idols at 60, take maybe an hr. golden

[thorny sapphire]

Like I'm glad I work where I work. I got curious about the salary ranges at EHG and they're not listed. I kinda like pay transparency

[hazy maple]

I'd be okay with a full paid DLC, if it was worth the value. Like what happened to the days of D2: LOD, Fallout expansions, where the value was actually there. Now adays we get "dlc" and it's like 30 minutes of content and it's done

[surreal oxide]

I hope we get a dinosaur as a playable class but also it's futuristic and has a fedora and solves crimes

[silver arrow]

I have a mixed feeling honestly.

I understand LE decided to keep expansion being free as they already promise that since beginning. It means old classes can still getting new things anyway with initial buy.

On the other hand, paid new classes need to be balanced to not make it powercreeping much the existing class.

I guess I'll see how it is.

[hazy maple]

That's the actual issue. Is the devaluing of what DLC's used to be.

[hard wraith]

Are paid classes going to be new specializations for existing base classes? or just something all together? LE your character can use any gear and it is great. The way it should be. Even has class specific relics and such. Sets are bland currently, in D2 it was the chase items. Each entity or god should have their own dedicated set flavored for them. Lagon with high armor, lightning resistance, and sends waves out with a full set and chain lightning on crits

[compact dawn]

Oh I don't disagree they need to do something. They are explicitly not making money and something needs to change. Just saying people consider classes as content, and some people value classes very highly and won't be happy with this monetization avenue.

[indigo mist]

Look at poe 1 and 2 for that matter. The only skip in poe1 is that you dont have to do labyrinth in campaign for future runs to do labyrinth and there's no such thing for poe2

[surreal oxide]

DLCs are just a bastardization of what an expansion should be to nickle and dime people to death

[waxen sparrow]

haha its so fun to see the community on fire

[indigo cloud]

These so-called Paradox Classes sound like the Dark Knight and Creator classes in Dungeon Fighter Online, which are remixed combo versions of two base classes for timey-wimey lore reasons, I wouldn't be surprised if they took inspiration

[hazy maple]

I think for the most part we are in agreement, but just looking at it from different views. Like we have the same feeling on this just wording it from the other side

[compact dawn]

Agreed

[thin scarab]

yep, again i cannot stress enough how much i hate this poe1 league and i have -5- characters in maps right now.

[indigo mist]

in my mind it's just the same characters but opposite of their personality.

[indigo mist]

worse than necro.. and that one was god awful.

[thin scarab]

if ur gonna play the game ur just gonna play it

[hoary shuttle]

D2 LoD was basically also paid classes if you look at it from a basic perspective. :P

[surreal oxide]

Doesn't help that mercenary league was a total banger. Really makes this one feel weak

[fading raven]

necro for loot was fine, I think this time they failed with actually loot part, as in mercs we had 16.5 to make things better, but mercs itself were drop multi

[silver arrow]

Perhaps if LE bring back each class story. I like to see Mage that actually the root cause his student go crazy

[thin scarab]

all i am saying is, there is no need to come in here half cocked speculating, berating the staff at ggg because your personal views don't align with a proposed business model they have. They are the ones working to produce this game, you are the one at home sitting, playing the game. just play the game or dont

[compact dawn]

Times were different, also it was far more then classes being sold, was an actual expansion to the game which added a ton of things. Not really a great comparison.

[thin scarab]

you legit have to buy every character in lets say a game like LoL to even begin to play more than ARAMS lmao

[hoary shuttle]

If the other expansion was included in the paid classes, wouldn't it be the same? :P

[indigo mist]

nah... D2 LoD was an expansion that added more to the game which includes characters that are already in that expansion.

[hazy maple]

Yep. Paid classes, but also all of the other content that was added made it for sure. Outside of the extra act, adding the rune system, jewels, charms, all the new iems for builds. Like that is what an expansion/dlc should be

[surreal oxide]

"Expansion" used to mean like a whole new continent of content, multiple new classes, new acts, etc. Now it means...uh, we've jazzed up our bi-monthly content patch a bit more than normal

[indigo mist]

terrible choice. Mobas you can just play the game and then use ingame money to buy the characters.

[thin scarab]

how long does it take to unlock those characters lmao

[compact dawn]

if they added a class with a paid expansion then sure. Kind of like how diablo 4 did recently (and will again soon)

[hoary shuttle]

I know, but we get Orobyss for free, which is exactly similar to that other content? :P

[fading raven]

in early mobas it wasn't really the case or the price was high

[hazy maple]

Oh, I'm on the side of happy with the choices the devs have made.

[thorny sapphire]

I see it the same way you do

[calm zodiac]

Base Class: Paradox soldier(No idea for a cooler name)

pitch:
Time traveller supersoldier wearing a paradox-powered nanosuit that goes over the standard game armor.
Instead of mana, he uses an auto-recharging battery to overclock suit modes:

Power: raw damage, recoil control, knockback.
Armor: damage smoothing, mitigation, “undo” big hits.
Speed: mobility, attack speed, cooldown haste.
Cloak: stealth, first-hit burst, repositioning.
Resource: Suit Battery
Slowly recharges over time.
Refills faster on kills, crits or taking hits (depending on passives).
Suit modes and big actives drain Battery instead of mana.
Masteries (ascendancies) decide what you do with the suit.

What yall think?

[thin scarab]

they added 1 area and a failed raid system to d4 and called it 70 bucks

gg

[grave magnet]

Posture Check- what did I miss?

[indigo mist]

still, the illusion of "i can play the game so I can get buy the character with my hard work" vs "I have to buy the new character or no new character for me" is wholly different

[fading raven]

ah that is true

[thorny sapphire]

Lol in fairness I still enjoy it cause I'm a loon

[compact dawn]

People weren't happy with the quality, not that they sold the expansion.

[silver arrow]

But tbh, simply fix the sound breaking is what makes me really come back playing LE. I can't stand every 30 minutes playing I have to restart 😭

[visual wadi]

ummm... id skip something like this if it was offered

[hazy maple]

But I do think most people here can agree we've been burned by DLC's in the modern gaming era with them basically adding nothing of value except an extra 10 minutes of stuff to look at once. Like of Orbyss was LOD level, then that would be exciting.

[indigo mist]

I've never experienced this.

[thin scarab]

i play every d4 season to get battle pass cosmetics, pick whatever rediculous quadrillion damage build rob has manufactured and end my d4 league in 5 days or less lmao

[calm zodiac]

I mean sure, not all classes are for everyone, so thats fair.

[fading raven]

we ignore unsuccesful case of Hero Siege, where paid classes didn't help (as well as overall changes of the game, was nice when it was mobile chaos VS-like game)

[surreal oxide]

Nah, I was pretty digusted that they had the balls to sell an expansion at all. They should still be releasing apology patches with massive content to make up for what a disaster that game was and still is

[leaden maple]

Just read the notes, we’re cooked

[indigo mist]

failed? i thought that was the biggest thing with D4?

[thorny sapphire]

Oh this one I played until a couple weeks ago. Playing hardcore for the season journey makes it take longer. Also I enjoy achievement hunting to a point

[visual wadi]

im so sorry, theres help out there

[hazy maple]

Hero siege actually did really well for ripping off other games. It's when they decided to change the entire design and mechanic of the game it flopped.

[thin scarab]

i have tried to find help for the issue to no avail

their cosmetic skins are so god damn good

[visual wadi]

self harm isnt the answer lol

[thin scarab]

the only good thing about d4 are the cosmetics i will never buy

[compact dawn]

I never bought the game because I knew it was a dumpster fire in beta :P. However I think we are a minority, D4 made bank I believe from VoH.

[indigo mist]

is that like the only reason the game still floats by?

[calm zodiac]

He's installing diablo 4?

[surreal oxide]

I got peer pressured into it 🙁

[fading raven]

I played when it was on mobile and without quests, skipped a couple of years, tried to play a pirate version and even it is broken now due to those seasons, but the fact that the game is expensive due to those classes is not soemthing which makes me want to play it "officially"

[indigo mist]

I never bought D4 because Diablo Immortal killed the series for me.

[thin scarab]

d4 is the ultimate casual experience, it is absolutely perfect for console gamers

[surreal oxide]

it's sad we never even realized how good we had it in d3 until it was too late

[compact dawn]

Diablo infinite was just shameless, really showed how scummy blizzard is.

[surreal oxide]

Surely, surely the next gaem will be better than d3

[indigo mist]

sorry, the memes of "Infinite monetization" got stuck in my brain.

[thorny sapphire]

Well that and ideal for people who work and go to school

[thin scarab]

d3 turned trash after inferno, i still play pd2 religiously

[compact dawn]

I can agree with that. Great game for casual gamers

[thin scarab]

yeah this isn't a like rag or rude statement btw its just how it is

[surreal oxide]

I thought d3 was a disaster at the time, going back to it now it seems like bliss compared to diablo infinte and d4

[thorny sapphire]

I'm in agreement. I'm much more casual now than I used to be

[calm zodiac]

I do think diablo 3 was good until the end of its lifecycle, not the best ARPG out there, never was but its like that mcdonalds meal you could go back to when hungry

[hazy maple]

I think I have around 8/900 hours into it total over the years. Funny enough I just looked and it looks like they're making 6 of the paid classes free with the next season

[surreal oxide]

I'm a Median XL player, myself. A new league lauched a few days ago 😛

[glacial sun]

I stopped playing D4 when paid classes / expansions come out. It wasn't good, but it was fun for a week.

[thin scarab]

median xl was fun so was eastern sun ressurected on d2r engine

[calm zodiac]

I wish paid expansions were the only issue with d4 lol

[surreal oxide]

Ohh you can play eastern sun on the d2r

damn I gotta try that

[calm zodiac]

Wait they did eastern sun with d2r?

[compact dawn]

i didn't know there was any conversion mods on D2R

[thin scarab]

i swear when i played it it was d2r engine i may be confused

[glacial sun]

Yeah it has way more, but even with them I would play a bit on a season launch.

[calm zodiac]

Thats because grim dawn is good, diablo 4 is not.

[surreal oxide]

They released the d2r engine

[visual wadi]

grim dawn doesnt charge 70 dollars for a mount

[fading raven]

yeah, because grim dawn is offline and good

[surreal oxide]

You can play offline now so mods are possible I think

[glacial sun]

Grim dawn D2 mod so amazing if you haven't tried it

[calm zodiac]

I don`t mind paying for a game, or paying for an expansion, the price doesnt matter, it matters if its good.

[surreal oxide]

if I want a new class in grim dawn I can literally just make one myself

[thin scarab]

i dont even know if i would be on board with current blizzard releasing d2 expansion on d2r not with 0 of the original coders and system designers on the team from BN

[compact dawn]

I'm kind of surpised, fully expected blizzard to lock down D2R so they can milk it more

[fading raven]

well, if LE goes completely offline with all implications of MTX, the damagee would be much smaller as now they don't need to pay extra for servers

[thorny sapphire]

Seems the logical conclusion

[thin scarab]

D2r was probably the most beautiful revamp of a game ever made, easily

[calm zodiac]

I mean, they making it free and charging for characters that you can buy or not based on you enjoying the class, seens pretty fair to me.

[indigo mist]

I wouldn't have minded if the expansion was paid for in the first place and the character was included in the expansion.

[thin scarab]

d3 was way too bright and not visceral enough imo

[tidal laurel]

no, it doesn't
it never did
stop lying

[compact dawn]

An honest shocked when compared to Warcraft 3 lol

[calm zodiac]

I would like them to modernize a few things for what we have with modern ARPGs, specially in the UI, but yeah its good.

[indigo mist]

isn't d4 the same? but less sunshine and rainbows?

[thin scarab]

i hate mobas and i hate WC3, wc2 was the last rts warcraft game i played

[night marten]

we have once again gotten really far off the LE track. lets reign it back in

[glacial sun]

I buy a lot of supporter packs for POE even if I don't like them. Because the league is good and GGG gave us yet again new stuff. I'm happy spending money but not like this.

I have over 20k hours in POE it's the game I play most. If they released a paid class or paid expansion I will 100% drop that game faster than you could "insert cool line here"

It's not about paying it's about caring about the player base.

[surreal oxide]

eyes his rows of Dark Age of Camelot and Starcraft boxxed expansions It's ok buddy, it's ok. You're right.

[thin scarab]

bro is in here asking us to reign in back in to le once we have all finished ripping each other a part for a brief moment

[thorny sapphire]

Double edged: then you're getting less for free but more "bang for your buck" with the purchase of the expansion

[thin scarab]

insanity

[compact dawn]

I played both, but I mostly played custom maps on WC3. The toolkit was really powerful and could make some very interesting game types.

[surreal oxide]

you REALLY want us laser focused on LE right now?

[indigo mist]

dude wants everyone to hate eachother.

[thin scarab]

crazy

im gonna go eat dinner lmao

caio

[compact dawn]

take care

[indigo mist]

have a good dinner

[tidal laurel]

and yet, too many people still said they'd stop playing if the expansion was paid
devs listened, and now we get paid classes instead

[thin scarab]

be kind and let ehg navigate this new chapter with a little bit of compassion while they figure it out yeah

[night marten]

for good or bad, this channel is for LE talk. plenty of other places to talk about other subjects if you want.

[compact dawn]

one way or another they are alienating someone

[calm zodiac]

The last class released in POE was the scion, wathever many years ago was it, i'd preffer to buy new ones them to not have anything at all

[surreal oxide]

You've disabled react emojis, but pretend tehre is a scathing snake emoji with your name on it

[thorny sapphire]

🐍

[indigo mist]

it's always been about the illusion. I know I'll feel good paying for an expansion knowing I'll get a lot out of it like with Iceborne and Sunbreak (monster hunter) or even Shadow of the Erdtree (elden ring) than paying for a character that I might not even like the gameplay of. and to people saying (just watch someone else play it and base it on that) trying something out yourself vs watching someone try it out is different.

[surreal oxide]

snek

[night marten]

hold on, its the internet.

I am enraged by such things. angry response

did i do it right

[calm zodiac]

As long as the content is good and the price is reasonable, its all g for wathever is being sold 😄

[compact dawn]

Yeah, don't like that react emojies were disabled, makes chat more spammy by having to respond with agreed or something

[thorny sapphire]

That's a good point

[night marten]

unfortunantly there are always people who take it too far.

[calm zodiac]

No, you gotta go to twitter RIGHT NOW and cancel someone.

[brittle fjord]

reacts thumbs up

[night marten]

im so glad you called it by the correct name. i shall do so post haste

[indigo mist]

🐍 jk jk

[thorny sapphire]

You're doing the Lord's work!

[calm zodiac]

I don't know a single person that call it by the other name, unless they're talking about that other kind of site lmao.
Guess atleast my friend group is over 50IQ

[compact dawn]

I refuse to call it X, so dumb, it's twitter and always will be

[indigo mist]

according to the owner Elon Musk it's called "X" so please respect his choices and how he named his son "X Æ A-12"

[night marten]

ah crap, i have derailed chat again. XD

[thorny sapphire]

Can we not conflate things?

[indigo mist]

I still can't believe you're allowed to name someone that...

[brittle fjord]

I think the new name is X-cellent personally

[compact dawn]

Mahahaha

[indigo mist]

it's quite X-quisite.

[calm zodiac]

Anyway, who do i need to harass on twitter to get a futuristic class that uses guns in the game?

[compact dawn]

Honestly I think social services should be called if you are naming kids crazy things

[nimble sleet]

just pay for it 6 months from now

[night marten]

the devs are actually pretty against gunpowder in the game. fireballs > guns

[indigo mist]

considering LE is all about the time travelling... I'm surprised this wasn't a thing.

[brittle fjord]

X-actly, some people just don't understand

[calm zodiac]

IKR we need a futuristic soldies with crysis style armor that uses rifles, pistols and snipers

[night marten]

though they have talked about adding like...laser-y guns that are kind of mechanical like liaths arms

[compact dawn]

I mean imagine, do you want to hold onto a bunch of explosive material when you have this random guy flinging fireballs everywhere? I know I wouldn't

[indigo mist]

why not, if the volatile zombies can self implode... I should too.

[compact dawn]

Transplant in a nut shell

LE version of Cast on Death, limited hard core viability.

I guess everyone is having dinner? Chat died down almost instantly LOL

[silver arrow]

not everyone woke up yet 😏

[calm zodiac]

But i never said anything about gunpowder, we have railguns, laser guns, drones, grenades

[compact dawn]

technically we have drones already with the falcon 😛

[night marten]

yeah. i specified a little after that.

[indigo mist]

what if they add an mtx for the wizard that allows him to "Shoot" spells with a "Gun"

[night marten]

we kinda have grenades with the explosive traps and such

[compact dawn]

I can see lasers kind of being a thing. We have disintegrate after all.

[night marten]

yep

but i would be surprised if we ever got projectile guns

[compact dawn]

Only way I can see it is if a witchunter paragon gets made

[clear oar]

Wait is it paragon or paradox I’ve heard both now

[compact dawn]

honestly I don't know

[half hill]

Paradox

Paragon is from bloons LOL

[compact dawn]

i'm just going to call it a para

[half hill]

Sleep paralysis demon as a class

[silver arrow]

Either way I'll see how the new money bait will be because costume is no for me. In the forum everyone wants stellar this, light/dark that, when I just want Beach Attire 😔

[compact dawn]

that's kind of sick sounding. I like it

[clear oar]

You actually just play as a pair of doctors, we’ve misunderstood the whole thing

[half hill]

Fighting through our batches of wronged patients trying to file suits

[indigo mist]

paramedics

[visual robin]

rip LE o7

[clear oar]

Yep sure bud

[compact dawn]

Yeah the character voice for the class just keeps telling you to wake up, you are in a coma the entire playthru

[half hill]

Yeah yeah we heard you now just leave

[indigo mist]

you're a bit late on that ship. both sides has already wind down.

[inland raven]

Guys... what's that road map? is that even a road map to begin with?

[compact dawn]

yeah, everyone is taking a dinner break, come back later

[indigo mist]

nah. not a roadmap. just a collection of future changes they plan to add.

no set date.

[inland raven]

"We'll be getting season 4 and 5" WHAT? NO SHIT

[clear oar]

Dinner? It’s 3pm in the nonfictional part of the county

[compact dawn]

😛 it's senior dinner time

[clear oar]

Look just because I’m at ihop right now

[half hill]

Cool story bro

[indigo mist]

i'm in the yellow part of the world so it's actually morning where I am.

[inland raven]

[compact dawn]

is the most popular emoji for this server? If that's not telling...

[fluid eagle]

paid classes? what are we D3?

[compact dawn]

TBF Also D4

[calm zodiac]

i canceled them on twitter and they're being fired from their job rn

[fluid eagle]

when will we learn players do not like gameplay being locked behind a paywall

[compact dawn]

eh it's a money problem. They wouldn't do it if they felt they had another choice.

[thorny sapphire]

When will players learn that paid cosmetics weren't making enough money to keep the lights on?

[muted cape]

I could argue that poe games are the same in that respect too, you need to pay to carry loot.

[daring tangle]

According to online sources, Last Epoch copies sold is anywhere from 2-3mil. Early Access through Launch priced @ 34.99 x 2mil dividing Valve's cut (30%) is 49$ Million. Game Kickstarted in 2018 with 255k$, entering Steam early access in 2019. Total development time in early access is 5 years. If Kickstarter funding covered 1 year expenses from 2018-2019, then 5 years development cost likely 1.2$ Million. Total profit on sales to date likely 40$ Million prior to Krafton deal. Krafton acquires 11th Hour games in 2025 for 96$ Million.

[fluid eagle]

not enough money btw

[compact dawn]

eh, not as much as you are hinting at. You can play the game without bank stash. It's a bit annoying but not impossible

[muted cape]

you either pay for dlc in games, battle passes, loot boxes, add ons, packs, currency, cosmetics, expansions it's in every live service game.

[compact dawn]

true, LE has an issue where there is too much competition, and they can't survive on micro's alone

[muted cape]

gotta pay the electricity bills

[calm zodiac]

No you can't.

[pure dawn]

Eh that’s not really true at all

[fluid eagle]

I'd pay for a DLC with great added contents. I'm not paying to play "exclusive" classes

[calm zodiac]

I literally have over 3000 exalted orbs in poe2 right now, by itself that would clog up my entire inventory if i didnt had stash tabs lol

[compact dawn]

Of course you can, people do it all the time. One of my friends did in fact.

[thorny sapphire]

So you'd pay for "exclusive" DLC?

[calm zodiac]

One of my friends did it, until i had to buy him tabs because he was miserable.

[fluid eagle]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[calm zodiac]

You can't play the endgame without buying stash tabs period.

Currency alone fill the whole thing.

[muted cape]

I had to pay in poe to have the most effecient stash organization form

[compact dawn]

never bought any for mine, he eventrually did buy some, not because he was miserable, but because he felt he got his money worth and wanted to pay into it a bit

[pure dawn]

Nah you can. Most casuals don’t really need stash tabs, they quit before they are necessary

[muted cape]

because it's so useful to have!

[calm zodiac]

Then they're quitting after the campaign, not end-game, as i said, i got over 3000 exalts, literally would fill the entire tab.

[pure dawn]

No. They are quitting in the endgame

[calm zodiac]

Yeah sure sure they are lol

[muted cape]

this is same as buying a new class I think, but I always enjoyed buying other classes, it's the main reason I play this game, the variety of them, and the builds

[pure dawn]

Endgame is well before even having 3k exalts in your lifetime lol

[calm zodiac]

I like POE a lot, but i hate the dishonesty in the discussion.

[pure dawn]

Much less having 3k at once

[muted cape]

Classes is my focus in arpgs

[calm zodiac]

3k exalts is less then 2 div rn.

[muted cape]

if your game doesnt have awesome minions builds well, then i'm not playing your product 😄

[pure dawn]

2 weeks before the league ends? Lmao

[thorny sapphire]

I understand that POE has a larger player base and that it's rated more highly. I like LE more though. Never even finished the campaign in POE

[muted cape]

man I kinda want to just go frogs next league

[pure dawn]

Economy means nothing right now, one exalt is expensive when it matters

So having 3k is absurd for like 99% of people

[calm zodiac]

I just like having more ARPG, be it LE, grim dawn, last epoch etc etc(Exept diablo 4, get out of here with that) so wathever we can do to have more its good.

[kind latch]

No WASD in PoE. Literally unplayable. May try PoE2

[calm zodiac]

Its not absurd lol i had that on the first week of the league

[pure dawn]

You need to understand most people aren’t degenerates that have 3k 1 week into the league. Like 99.9% don’t

So stash tabs aren’t these must have you make it out to be

Most casuals are fine with normal tabs

[calm zodiac]

Sure, but if they wanna reach the top they'll need this kinda currency level, even if we talking beginning of the league, thats 30 div, it not that much, 4 regular tabs arent enough to play the game.

[pure dawn]

If you play the game in any serious fashion ofc you will pay for it

[calm zodiac]

Thats literally what i'm saying

[peak osprey]

to be fair playing past acts without any paid stash tabs will make you uninstall within a week

[calm zodiac]

Exactly.

[peak osprey]

in acts it's whatever

[thorny sapphire]

And that's what I did lol

[peak osprey]

it's a good model in that sense, the acts are essentially a demo version

[calm zodiac]

Arguing that you can do endgame just fine without paid tabs is simply not honest.

[pure dawn]

Depends on your level of commitment do the game

[thorny sapphire]

I found the bag space miserable in POE

[pure dawn]

You can do fine with no tabs

[peak osprey]

if you're fine with spending half of your time moving items around then yeah maybe

I prefer to kill stuff

[calm zodiac]

You need to have atleast the 6 pack of tabs + maps + currency + essence.
That would be the starter pack.

[thorny sapphire]

Same 😁

[pure dawn]

You don’t really

[peak osprey]

eh, I'd say currency + maps + a quad tab to put everything into and mass-identify later are the core pack

[calm zodiac]

If i had to play 1000 hours of 4 tabs the only thing i'd be killing is myself.

[peak osprey]

essences, gems etc are optional

[indigo mist]

that's funny.

[peak osprey]

LE wins because I can set a strict enough filter that I just look at a few items every 5-6 echoes and keep going

[calm zodiac]

Looting and hoarding is the flesh and blood of a looter ARPG such as POE and LE, not having stash tabs is not doable when talking end-game.

[thorny sapphire]

That and I swear that there's more bag space in this game

[peak osprey]

while in poe if playing ssf or semi ssf I need to identify every promising rare with the correct bases/ilvl/whatever

[thorny sapphire]

Either that or the items don't take up as many cells

[pure dawn]

Still though, tabs aren’t classes and that’s what matters lol

[peak osprey]

so a whole quad tab can contain no usable items

[thorny sapphire]

There's likely going to be like seven or eight other S tier builds that don't require a paid class

[peak osprey]

there's plenty of classes in poe I never built (and also in LE if we're counting the specs, not just base classes) so I can't really say I care

[calm zodiac]

It all depends on the price

[pure dawn]

That’s not the point at all

[indigo mist]

I'd say time is the biggest price you'd spend.

[pure dawn]

But in POE you can try them at any time, with no cost

[calm zodiac]

tho i'd argue class is a least problematic?
Like i don't like archer like classes, so if they release a class like that i'd just skip without feeling like i'm losing anything lol

[peak osprey]

it doesn't change my enjoyment that another class exists in a DLC, really. if they didn't have money to add all the content the class requires, it would just not exist

it's better for it to be paid than not exist at all. it's not a pvp game where I need to play it to learn the matchup or something

[pure dawn]

It does to enough people

[inner finch]

Being the selfish gamer i am, i just want all this influx of manpower to actually start shoving more meaningful content updates into LE. im sort of not happy about having mild content updates every 5-6 months

[thorny sapphire]

I'm just not swayed by claims that LE should have POE's monetization strategy because I've tried POE a couple times and I consistently do not enjoy it

[peak osprey]

I'd take an xpac class + free content (dungeons, endgame bosses, mechanics, whatever) than free classes + xpac content

[calm zodiac]

That i agree with you

[indigo mist]

I'm one of the people that likes playing around with lots of different builds and characters. This paid character definitely ticked me the wrong way but does that mean I'll no longer play the game? no, not really. Game is still good for the most part... Just that I've lost some trust with the company.

and I'm a minority in this. Lots of people who share the same fascination of more characters/more builds have stated they will quit the game... good for them I guess?

[peak osprey]

my read on the situation is that someone decided the same thing (possibly krafton) and forced EHG to have a viable business plan before the game dies a slow death. they also mentioned they're hiring for quite a few roles

[silver arrow]

pretty sure there's many report this issue. But I better verify it myself and report it again if it still happen 😕

[thorny sapphire]

Lol I'm probably in the minority of people that enjoy D4 lol

[pure dawn]

You do you my friend, to me it completely killed the game.

No point “waking up on the beach” if we all don’t start from an equal footing with equal access.

I can’t really understand people that “don’t care” about this

[inner finch]

Mike told us on streams that he wish they had more manpower for tasks and mechanics for years now

[indigo mist]

you probably are... Good for you 🤣

[calm zodiac]

Its simple, if its a class i don't like, the existence dont make a difference to me, if its a class that i do... i can just buy

[indigo mist]

would your pov still be the same if it was a paid Expansion instead?

[pure dawn]

Yes, it would be even worse

[thorny sapphire]

So your issue is paying for a product?

[pure dawn]

No gated gameplay content

[pure dawn]

I already payed for it bruh

[indigo mist]

what's your pov on things like "Shadow of the Erdtree" or "MHW:Iceborne"?

I'm genuinely curious.

[peak osprey]

this exact thing happened to guild wars 2 btw. released for no monthly fee, had to switch to f2p + paid expansions (with, indeed, extra specializations in each) to stay alive in the long run

[silver arrow]

I'll be here watching you guys 🍿

[pure dawn]

I’ve written above but I’ll repeat, on single player games it makes sense for paid DLC because there is no MTX.

For online games no paid DLC, only cosmetics

[calm zodiac]

On that note, with the expansion coming out, i'd like to see them making the game f2p and selling the expansion, would be easy to get new players in.

[thorny sapphire]

Me too

[indigo mist]

ehg member already stated they'd not do that.

[calm zodiac]

Sure, but i'd like to see it either way

[thorny sapphire]

Eh that's a missed opportunity then

[peak osprey]

same. I think LE being paid is a mistake from the marketing standpoint, a lot of people don't want to risk half of a triple A price on an unknown arpg

bunch of my friends who got into GD got into it on some ridiculous steam sale, like -80%

free base game + paid expansion might be the way to go

[thorny sapphire]

I mean I have GD in my library and I haven't played it at all practically

[indigo mist]

I see. So you just want free stuff without having to pay for it.

[calm zodiac]

Also another maybe controversial opinion on LE

[pure dawn]

Can you read?

The game is paid. I paid for it.
There is also a store to pay for more stuff

[calm zodiac]

Am i the only one who feels like we need a better social hub area them the end of time? it is kinda... empty and lifeless

[pure dawn]

Some people man

[peak osprey]

you're missing out, it looks like ass in the first acts but it's a really great game (and later acts + DLC acts look pretty good, too)

[calm zodiac]

I mean, you kinda have the game already, nobody is taking it away from you

[pure dawn]

That’s not the point

[calm zodiac]

I second that, grapcs are worse then poe1, but man, the game is so nice.

[thorny sapphire]

I might give it a try if I have time. Also depends if there's good guides written for it. I'd have little enjoyment playing ARPGs absent build guides

[indigo mist]

Monster Hunter for the most part is a single player game that has co-op... lo and behold LE is the same thing.
Monster Hunter has even in past titles, introduced Paid Expansions. The players are happy to pay for it to experience more of the game they play with a different twist. I would gladly do the same for LE but I can't say I'd ever pay for a playable character.

[calm zodiac]

Theres no need, lot of systems are very similar to diablo 2 so its all fairly easy to understand.

[peak osprey]

there's plenty, check grimtools (same dev as LE tools I believe)

[pure dawn]

What do I care about Monster Hunt?
Never played it never bought it, but I say the same criticism to it if they are pulling the same thing LE is pulling

[silver arrow]

I used rektbyprotoss vids

[thorny sapphire]

I cannot intuitively create viable builds for these games. Some people can and I'm not one of them lol

[calm zodiac]

Believe me, any build is viable in that game, the game is not really a modern ARPG so theres no "uber tier content"

[peak osprey]

for GD I'd actually disagree, some early game options are not good leveling skills. but yeah I never use guides for arpgs until I'm at 100+ hours because why ruin the fun

[thorny sapphire]

Eh I get restless with the uncertainty and how long it takes me to scrutinize it all

[quick magnet]

The fun is rooted in many different aspects of any given game.

[indigo mist]

Okay, I see your pov and while I don't share the same outlook about LE as you do. Hope you have fun with whatever game you're gonna play over LE.

[quick magnet]

The build craft isn't it for some people. For a lot of people, in fact.

[peak osprey]

the solution is to just yolo in and mess with stuff. but yeah analysis paralysis is real

it annoys me a lot in poe2, in poe1 I have large parts of the tree memorized give or take

in poe2 most passive nodes are trash and the few that are amazing for a build are hidden in weird places

[indigo mist]

my first 100 hours in PoE1 was me trying to make templar Aurabot a thing without knowing how hard it actually was to make an aurabot work.

[stoic frigate]

It's not though

[indigo mist]

without guides?

[calm zodiac]

Also one thing i'll say, theres one thing we can all agree its a problem with EHG.
Regardless of we having an issue with paid characters or not.

The way they announce things is TERRIBLE.
This announcement basically gave us 0 information about the next league or the future, and only made people mad, like what was the actual point of announcing this now? lol

[stoic frigate]

Without guides.

[peak osprey]

I really appreciate this about LE actually, there might be options to respec into other skills but the tools I have to play with at any given time are limited and easy to understand

I can take a new skill, read its entire tree and make informed decisions

[quick magnet]

lmao "its not though" is the most tonedeaf thing you could say in this context

You only say that because you already know how to do it

[stoic frigate]

Stack reduced mana reservation. Get aura effect modifiers. Done.

[quick magnet]

Reductive, but not wrong

[indigo mist]

oh yeah definitely. They announce very few and far inbetween and when they do it's either lackluster or just like now, a ducker punch.

[peak osprey]

I have 1k hours in poe and I'd probably fail at making a good aurabot, I just never really cared about that kind of build

[quick magnet]

The problem is that aurabots can't play the damn game on their own because their entire kit is dedicated to juicing their auras.

[calm zodiac]

This was the most pointless announcement ive ever seen lol

[quick magnet]

It's not impossible to do, but you have to know what you're getting into

[thorny sapphire]

I agree but for a new player like me I actually would have responded to it completely favorably if I had no knowledge of the Kickstarter and didn't read people's comments here

[indigo mist]

yes and this is with prior knowledge... again. I said my FIRST 100 hours into PoE1

[thorny sapphire]

Like in a vacuum it reads well to a new player like me

[stoic frigate]

I have 8k and have never even planned one before last week and it was as simple as that

[quick magnet]

Because you have 8k hours

[indigo mist]

I didn't even know about mana reservations and stuff when I made that scuffed aurabot brother.

[stoic frigate]

Because I took the time to read the words in front of me and look at what items exist

[calm zodiac]

I mean i had a positive reaction to this announcement, i preffer to pay for a class and like the idea.
That said, it was an awfully timed and pointless announcement that i could have my day ended without and nothing would have changed.

[peak osprey]

tbh by first 100h in poe if you understand how not to get oneshot at yellow maps by stacking defensive layers you're already ahead of the curve

nevermind actual focused character builds

[quick magnet]

nvm, you're too enfranchised to understand

[little lagoon]

hi i have ~100 hours and understand everything deias is talking about just fine

[peak osprey]

(you can speedrun that by watching tons of tutorials ofc, but we're assuming someone is playing to discover and maybe reading a mechanics wiki)

[indigo mist]

funnily enough that scuffed aurabot I made had a hard time dying when I entered maps.... also had a very hard time killing things.

[rain badge]

Any speculation what the price on new class will be

[calm zodiac]

5-10$ i'd say

[indigo mist]

give or take 10 usd.

[thorny sapphire]

My guess was 15-20

[rain badge]

10 sounds right.

[indigo mist]

20 sounds too high considering the base game itself is already at 35$

[rain badge]

Sounds like they really wish they could charge for expansion with slow season revenue from shop

[thorny sapphire]

You're probably right

[pure dawn]

They somehow thought we would glaze them by having the expansion free while ripping out part of it and making it paid lmao

[thorny sapphire]

Ish. I mean the issue with that is that expansions are more costly to develop

[indigo mist]

that sounds about right based on what I read on the forum post.

[thorny sapphire]

I'm happy to do all the glazing

[rain badge]

10 is most I will pay for class

[pure dawn]

We should glaze what is good and critique what isn’t.

Doing either one blindly is not good

[calm zodiac]

I feel like the biggest issue with the shop right now, is the forced season theme in it, like, i don't like prehistoric stuff, i i had nothing i wanted to buy this league lol

[rain badge]

Yeah same

[thorny sapphire]

I like the moon outfit

Like with the moon headpiece

[rain badge]

This was least interesting season for me

[indigo mist]

you know what they should do to fix this? Introduce what Riot did before... show different sets of skins and see which one the community wants the most.

then release that skin mid season or something

[thorny sapphire]

Or have a community design contest

[indigo mist]

oh that'd be fun too... but then they'd have to pay the artist in some form... maybe make the skin free for the winner?

[stoic frigate]

Biggest issue of LE's shop for me is that it's just, not good. The designs constantly fall into a "plasticy" feel or a shockingly overdesigned hodgepodge.

[thorny sapphire]

Could be. I hadn't thought that far lol

[peak osprey]

my personal pet peeve with the mtx is that they don't fit each other at all and they have clashing color schemes

maybe it's just the limited variety of them

[abstract mango]

was good while it lasted GG LE

[indigo mist]

what if they propose highlights

[peak osprey]

in poe you can sometimes assemble something interesting, especially if you played for a while

[thorny sapphire]

History shows I'm more likely to buy a battle pass rather than individual cosmetics

[indigo mist]

maybe you've been tainted by gacha

[peak osprey]

if the mtx came with a few sets of colors for particles I'd prob buy most of the lineup

[pure dawn]

Yeap, this is it.

With better skins there wouldn’t be a need for this paid dlc nonsense

[peak osprey]

right now it's a struggle to have anything that fits a given char at all

[thorny sapphire]

Maybe. I bought a bunch of platinum in D4 and solely use it for the premium battle pass each season

[stoic frigate]

One of my favorite PoE cosmetics is literally just a sandy colored cloak/poncho thing with some cool purple plant like stuff under the surface. Looks great. Pairs well with a bunch of stuff.

[peak osprey]

yeah it doesn't have to be fancy, it just needs to fit your char

(also, transmogs! where are transmogs)

[indigo mist]

This would be cool

[stoic frigate]

"Coming soon™"

[thorny sapphire]

Where did that word originate from? World of Warcraft?

[indigo mist]

yep

[thorny sapphire]

I thought as much. I check out that game every couple years

[glass tiger]

The studio needs to monetize somehow to keep the game alive. MTX/skins alone have their limits, and let's be honest - a lot of players don't even buy cosmetics, so the revenue from that is probably not great. On top of that, they specifically said the Paradox Classes are "built on systems that work differently from anything else in the game" - that means significant development effort went into this. Expecting them to just give that away for free seems unrealistic.

Also, comparing this to POE is kind of funny. POE is "free to play," but let's be real - playing without stash tabs is borderline painful. That's basically semi-mandatory spending, yet nobody complains about that. But an optional paid class? Suddenly that's crossing the line?

Sure, if the balance turns out to be garbage and the paid class is blatantly overpowered, that's a legitimate problem. But screaming "P2W!!" about something that hasn't even been released yet feels a bit premature.

I think people are extra heated because they're also frustrated about Season 4 not coming until early 2026. Let's at least wait until it actually drops before we grab the pitchforks.

[thorny sapphire]

I agree with you but that's a wall of text

[stoic frigate]

I'm heated because I was sold a product with the premise of not making any playable content in the future paid.

Cut and dry.

[teal venture]

Im sorry, if ur saying they have to monitize it somehow because MTX alone cant carry a game, look at POE. That's why everyone is melting down. They are trying to get any of the POE player base to play their game. If they monitize it this way or charge for XPAC's few will be convinced to come over. In fact, a lot of the people who want this game to succeed wont play it either.

[thorny sapphire]

MTX carry a game if you have scale

[silver arrow]

does people intetionally ignore PoE has paid stash tabs?

[void agate]

wondered how long it'd take for base game mechanics to be monetised like additional classes lmao everyone called it when they were bought out ages ago

[indigo mist]

I stated my PoV on this before and while I do agree about the monetization thing before... It's the "Illusion of worth" in my case. I would gladly spend on a Paid expansion if it gives me the feeling of having spent my money on something worthwhile and adds more to the game I like vs having to spend my money on a character I might not even like... Hell, I'll even give my 2cents on this matter. Make it so that everyone can have a test run "Trial" version of the character and put them in the arena just so they can test out 5 skills. and see if they'll like it enough to spend on it.

[stoic frigate]

I could write up a whole dissertation about the differences between PoE's pricing and monetization structure in comparison to this, but I really don't want to spend the time on it.

[teal venture]

No one is ignoring that at all. Its free to play, and the entry fee is stash tabs. Once you get those tabs, you choose how you support the game, whether its supporter packs or MTX.

[silver arrow]

just make it in your personal journal or the like so you can still be remembered what you need to say in the future 😉

[glass tiger]

Yeah, the trial idea actually makes a lot of sense. Let people get a taste of the class before committing, and you'd probably see fewer complaints AND better conversion rates. Win-win.

Also looking back at my wall of text above... yeah I probably should've kept it shorter lmao

[void agate]

difference with POE is you can do all content in the game without spending a cent. They don't lock classes, ascendencies or any content behind a paywall. That's the distinction

[silent sonnet]

If you wait, all the classes here will be free as well. You just get early access to the paradox classes. They will be very unfinished.

[indigo mist]

I don't actually mind having to pay for a character but it's the fact if I'll enjoy the character after having paid for it... There'd be less outrage if there's a trial run where you can test the character out... that way people will feel less inclined to buy the characters.

[stoic frigate]

Alternatively, I can go back to shitposting in chat and ignore the overall meltdown since my mind is already made up, at least until Kain shows up and I have to take my leave again.

[silent sonnet]

Im here

[thorny sapphire]

This is subjective but I generally don't enjoy free to play games. Last one I enjoyed was like RuneScape or heroes of the storm (early on)

[stoic frigate]

Different Kain but hi

[iron halo]

BAN DEIAS BAN DEIAS BAN DEIAS

[indigo mist]

man... HoTS... sad game...

was such a cool concept too.

[stoic frigate]

I CAN FIND YOU BORU, I WILL THROW CANS AT YOUR DOOR

[thorny sapphire]

I know! I love the blizzard universes

I mean particularly Warcraft

[silent sonnet]

This sounds like a pd2 Livestream. Lots of whining. Noone is forced to pay for anything.

[pure dawn]

Yes gating content behind a paywall is crossing a line while QoL for tabs is not.

How are people still trying to argue this

[indigo mist]

like they've put so much thought into the characters they put into the game that they actually feel like the characters in their own games like with the OW characters or the SC characters.

it was such a fun game... until Blizzard decided it wasn't worth investing on and ignored it.

[thorny sapphire]

For sure. Think I played during part of the alpha for it

[hidden portal]

its still a fun game, and has balance patches every now and again. They just did a massive rework recently. Just no more new characters / maps / cosmetics etc

[thorny sapphire]

Aw yay I'm glad to hear that

[indigo mist]

oh? Didn't know that... I might check it out again

[thorny sapphire]

Lol same

[teal venture]

Just waiting for the poll to decide how they monitize the game. Im sure everyone will be on board with paid XPAC. If they dont go down the route of how POE is monitizing, im feared LE will just be game dying soon.

[thorny sapphire]

It's before my time but I distinctly recall reading that people were up in arms about a paid xpac

Like some people just don't like paying extra for new things

[indigo mist]

to quote EHG_Kain here... "We've been strongly against paid expansions because of how they split the playerbase. By instead making the class paid, there's never a bar introduced to playing with other players." so there could still be a chance for paid xpac over paid chara

[teal venture]

Either of them im fully against. I have played LE for about 1k hours, most before the full launch. I have also played POE for about a 8 years or so, or 8k hours played. I havent paid for anything is so many years in POE. If i choose to support them because of a league i enjoy, i buy supporter packs, MTX etc. If they choose to monitize it like Diablo, i wont be the only one who chooses to stop playing.

[indigo mist]

oh there's already a lot of people that has left and uninstalled "ALLEGEDLY" since we cant really tell if it's true or not but they have stated so a few hours ago.

[obtuse bay]

I like how every streamer started to upload their videos about roadmap

[versed bone]

lol. Entitled people think everything should be free forever.

[teal venture]

I dont think EHG fully understands any monetization beyond what POE 1 and 2 do is going to be highly unpopular. No one is going to care it isnt XPAC be monitized, its going to be i wont be able to play a feature without paying.

[thorny sapphire]

Spot on

[indigo mist]

I should watch this... brb.

[versed bone]

It costs my small 800 user SaaS application 20k/month in just Azure costs. I can’t imagine something at this scale.

[compact dawn]

The fact is LE needs to do something to make money. Before they sold to Krafton they could of scrapped the live service element, but now they are kind of stuck

microtransactions aren't making enough money atm

[indigo mist]

I already stated my pov in this a lot this few hours so I'll just say I hate Paid Characters. I don't mind Paid Xpacs.

[thorny sapphire]

I mean I just feel for the developers because right now the company is between a rock and a hard place. I'm glad I don't work at Blizz and EHG. I like their products but like I'm glad I don't work at either place.

[versed bone]

At least this is a logical argument.

[compact dawn]

I too would perfer a paid expansion then just paid characters. Either way for me it's a paid expansion, because for me the characters are the content

[teal venture]

The biggest and best AARPG in the market is free forever, lol. That is such a bad take. Do a better job in monitize it or people will choose not to play it. Their window between POE 1 and POE 2 is so short now, 6 weeks between leagues of each game. This will be the death blow of this game.

[thorny sapphire]

People have said that about D4 for ages. It has a large crowd that doesn't like it, but there are people like me that enjoy it

[compact dawn]

they have a very narrow nettle to thread that's for sure, even with paid expansions things will likely be tight

[visual robin]

agree

[quick jackal]

Well, I guess with this decision, I know that I am done with this game. It's too bad. It had a lot of promise. 🙁

[indigo mist]

oh and I'll also add this to the whole paid characters debacle. Give players a way to access only a fraction of the new character's power like a "trial" where they cant change gear/skills and put it in the arena. let the players have a taste of how it plays and see if they like it.

[visual robin]

I bought the supporter packs purely out of my own free will, and I will not pay for any expansion even if it's just $1.

[teal venture]

Everytime i come back to play D4, i get more playtime on D3. D4 isnt in the conversation anymore, until the next XPAC fools a bunch of people again.

[quick jackal]

I am fine with paying for expansions. I am not fine with paying for DLC character/skill/item/content patches.

[compact dawn]

A system that would give you an expansion for free after a certain amount of $ spent on supporter packs (or loose currency sales) would be a nice work around?

[indigo mist]

nah... then it would feel like you have to pay for the packs to even access the Xpac

[compact dawn]

kind of like how PoE2 was done for it's beta

[compact dawn]

well I'm saying as an alternate way to get the expansion, otherwise you can pay for the sticker price

[indigo mist]

supporter packs should stay as is... For the support

[inner finch]

supporter packs will now get you a support class

[indigo mist]

like, I like the game, I like the stuff in this pack. I'll buy it and support the game.

[thorny sapphire]

Idk I feel like most people that bought the supporter packs will pay for the paid class

[severe sinew]

Meh, it's just that EHG doesn't know how to make proper mtx, that's why they need to make some artificial workarounds

[inner finch]

I think we can unanimously critique EHG on the way they handled cosmetics yes

[deft oar]

i honestly think im done with last epoch

[thorny sapphire]

I brought up the subject of scale. If you don't have enough players then you won't make enough money off the MTX to sufficiently offset the cost in making them

[indigo mist]

in the end it's all about the "Feelings". The payer should feel that they spent their money on something worth it... sure there are some that don't care about spending money on whatever but there are also some that do care about what they spend their money on.

[severe sinew]

Like for me it was very frustrating - I've got some shop points from preordering the game but haven't found anything remotely interesting in the shop :/ Still have all my points

[indigo mist]

like I feel great spending my money on Last Epoch when I bought the game and bought a few supporter pack (just to get the pets... don't judge me.)

[thorny sapphire]

I spent mine recently on the moon outfit and the feather backpiece

[indigo mist]

but I'd hate to spend my money on a character I might not even like the gameplay of...

[thorny sapphire]

That's understandable. That's a risk with an expansion too though

[severe sinew]

That depends on your mtx's target audience but yeah, I'd generally agree

[lime junco]

Absolute trainwreck of an announcement… this game literally was bought by blizzard I think 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️. Game is barely better hen shit and your already gonna charge for 1 new weird hydros stupid gimmick character? Absolute garbage. This sealed the deal to stop playing this game as it’s going nowhere. Time to play the project Diablo 2 mod ladder. That game is genuinely fun… and FREE..

[turbid dagger]

I just read the announcement... damn guys. The expansion pack isn't "free" if half the new content (new classes) have to be bought. You can't just take parts of the expansion out and charge for them and then say it's a free expansion. Man what happened to EHG.

[compact dawn]

Yeah that was my thought, bought necromancer in D3, and was very disapointed it was a worse minion master than witchdoctor

[thorny sapphire]

👋

[severe sinew]

It just creates an artificial incentive for the devs to make those paid classes either OP or more interesting than basic classes and that's what scares me

[compact dawn]

mind you, I bought D3 when the game and expansion was like $15

[thorny sapphire]

I look at the history of D4 development and spiritborn hasn't stayed OP forever

[lime junco]

Exactly Kirito…. A paid character will always have atleast 2 ladders or seasons as the strongest or best character to get more to buy it.

[dawn flax]

doesnt necro do it better?

[compact dawn]

I'm not buying D4 until it also drops to around $15

[indigo mist]

welcome to the ashes of a dumpster fire... there's still kindlings but most of the fire has died down.

[lime junco]

Tina it had 2 seasons as a completely broken build and the fastest build also for speed farming…. WTF ur talking about 🤦🏼‍♂️🤦🏼‍♂️

[thorny sapphire]

I used the word "forever". Two isn't forever

[indigo mist]

yep, this is one of the concerns.

[compact dawn]

no, least not last I played. Necromancer summoner set bonus basicaly just empowers a AoE spell, not your minions

[lime junco]

Well no shit lol. They arnt gonna leave the new character strong forever but 2 seasons or more is already way to much for “paid ease” you can do higher content and farm faster with the paid new character of its way stronger. Sad

[indigo mist]

also add the fact that a season is like 6 months long

[thorny sapphire]

True but I was never in that situation because I already enjoyed the game immensely and happily bought the expansion

[compact dawn]

where else the witch doctor empowers it's minions by debuffing mobs. It's not direct, but at least it's minions are the ones doing the damage. The necromancer does most of it's damage from self cast not minions

[dawn flax]

then comes power creep and basic characters arent fun anymoren

[turbid dagger]

craziest part to me is the fact that the campaign literally isn't even done yet. Like, they clearly don't care about making a whole game. At this point it's clear the goal isn't a fun game but a timesink engine to suck wallets.

[severe sinew]

Yup and then we have AFK Arena spinoff

Might add gacha for new characters as well

[thorny sapphire]

They do this as a full time job. You act as if it's vile that they aim to make money

[compact dawn]

gacha string bikini cosmetics

brand new physics engine with updated character models for obviose reasons......

[turbid dagger]

the game has a full AA price tag. I paid it with the expectation I was going to eventually get a full game, because that is what EHG told me was going to happen. The fact that they couldn't make enough from their price to deliver on that promise is not my fault for asking too much.

[severe sinew]

NGL I’d pay for that

[compact dawn]

sex sells, not shocked a lot of people would. there is a reason gacha makes money 😛

[indigo mist]

Primalist on a Bikini? Damn man. You're wild.

[compact dawn]

hey something for the guys and girls, and guys again

[severe sinew]

I mean, that’d be funny in an ARPG

[compact dawn]

for the record, I was saying this as a joke, but I mean, if it works it works?

They need to make sure to update the character models with physics though..... Just like PoE2 (I see you GGG -_-)

[eternal lake]

When did people start having a problem with having to buy an update that brings a new class. Everyone did this in diablo 3 and I didn't hear one complaint. What changed?

[calm zodiac]

Microtransaction idea: Skins that 100% change the class into anime waifu.

Boom, all finantial issues solved.

[indigo mist]

what if I want husbandos though?

[calm zodiac]

That will come in the anime pack 2, everyone will be a muscular anime hottie

[indigo mist]

like give me a skin where it looks like those pretty boys from that "Ojou-sama song"

[severe sinew]

Jojo collab

[calm zodiac]

Sure thats viable too

[thorny sapphire]

A lot of f2p nonsense that some people swear by

[calm zodiac]

They should ass some crazy wacky cosmetics, this whole "sticking to game aesthetic" is non-sense, turn this into the fortnite of ARPG

[onyx dust]

Ain’t paying for a new class dog, wrong way to monetize

[thorny sapphire]

People always like the monetization strategy that doesn't involve them paying money

[calm zodiac]

Theres 5 other classes you can monetize for free!

[compact dawn]

monetize the balance patches. Need to pay 5.99 for your class not to suck

energy system, need to wait to farm more gold, or you can by a bypass for 2.99!

[calm zodiac]

Nah they need to sell anime waifus, anime waifu pets, anime waifus and husbandos in bikinis

Thats the solution for the crysis right here, turn it into a weeb game

[compact dawn]

Don't forget a pull system to get the high value waifu's

[calm zodiac]

Yess legendary waifu gacha premium

Who do we have to harass on twitter to make it happen?

[compact dawn]

Judd

he's on the server TBH

[radiant nebula]

I’m really trying to better understand this paradox monetization model. I have no qualms with the studio needing to rethink their monetization, but it effectively sounds like we’ll need to pay to “beta test” new character mechanics that are framed as new classes.

If said new classes are interwoven into any sort of future leaderboard content, and they end up scaling way above all others, gating that behind a pay wall is IMHO, an objectively poor decision for the health of the retained player base.

What am I missing here? Pay for some isolated beta testing? Sure I guess. Pay for a new class? Meh.

[turbid dagger]

People don't like being forced into "monetization" for a game they paid full price for and was promised not to have to pay for future content

[inner finch]

Anything in addition to what was stated by EHG would be purely speculative. I would simply wait for further information

[calm zodiac]

tbh theres a better way for them to do it, something similar to prime access from warframe, you pay for a class, get access to it first for a month once the league start, them free for everyone after the prime acess end.

[compact dawn]

That's the problem with live service games.

[tame elk]

not gonna pay for it

[compact dawn]

Warframe also already has a huge player base. They can use more stratagies due to the playerbase then EHG can do.

[calm zodiac]

I mean sure, but this way would be the best of two worlds both for the playerbase and devs

[compact dawn]

Warframe can happly live off 10% of it's player base (or less) being whales. EHG doesn't have that luxery, or perhaps they don't have the ability for whales to spend money.

that might be the core issue, what's the total a whale can even spend in this game?

[thorny sapphire]

I agree they shouldn't have made that promise or they should have been more precise with their language

[velvet bridge]

Hoping for the best

[thorny sapphire]

Me too. I tend toward optimism

[calm zodiac]

While i agree with that, its better that them being gone, if it fails after the first character, nothing stops them from trying something else, who knows

[compact dawn]

Yeah that's all we can do, wait and see, and make crude jokes about them adding waifu's into the game

string bikini's for the primalist

[thorny sapphire]

That's true. Astra inclinant, sed non obligant. The stars guide us, but don't bind us

[velvet bridge]

I thought that was already included when you log in to an echo and your primalist does not load in with gear

[thorny sapphire]

Lol!

[compact dawn]

News to me, I don't typically play primalist, and when I do he's a tree full time

[calm zodiac]

i mean, this expansion will arrive the earliest in june, so lots can change by them

[compact dawn]

By the way did they ever fix the end of the game so it doesn't skip thru all the dialog?

[turbid dagger]

dunno, that roadmap seems pretty iron clad, don't you think?

[compact dawn]

I still don't know how the game ends because the dialog was broken

[cobalt fable]

i told you all, krafton would be bad

[crystal crown]

dunno about that, I like paying for stuff that's fun, dunno where everyone got this idea of we signed some contact for free content till they day we die, like we on some grandfathered plan or something

[thorny sapphire]

My thoughts exactly. They're describing a contract where they had a fixed price contract with no contract mods xd

[calm zodiac]

That was no roadmap lol it had 0 details in anything

[turbid dagger]

no one said anything about a contract. EHG repeatedly said they would finish the game and deliver content updates and not charge for it as long as we paid for the game up front. We are not in the wrong for believing what EHG/Judd told us.

[crystal crown]

feel like if they released a new Astroids game, people would be mad "we have to buy it, I bought this in 1979, and now you are making me pay for new content!!!"

[haughty zinc]

How could it take them (i dont know how many) WEEKS to make that roadmap? i mean... its not even a roadmap 😂

[turbid dagger]

that's the joke

[haughty zinc]

im genuinely confused

[crystal crown]

ya the "roadmap" was garbage waste of time

[calm zodiac]

and here was i thinking that the roadmap itself was the joke

[indigo mist]

hi genuinely confused.

[wide wigeon]

The real problem is the fact that EHG was too ambitious and thought that they could make LE so good that they would never need to have people pay for more then the base game.

They should have released an ARPG that had no continued development first then released the live service ARPG after once they had a game under there belt

[thorny sapphire]

True but I personally avoid buying games that aren't online

[crystal crown]

back in my day playing Mario Bros 3, and when Super Mario world came out, I had to buy a whole new SYSTEM called SNES just to play it, and none of us complained of "what we gota pay for a new game!!, its not free content?"

[stable shoal]

Sadly people now days are pretty self centered and think the whole world owes them everything

[wide wigeon]

IMO this is not a case of entitlement

People feel lied to

[stable shoal]

Like how dare you charge me 30$ extra when I already paid 30$ 2 years ago

[wide wigeon]

they arent wrong

[stable shoal]

You have to keep giving me content for free forever until you go bankrupt

[stable shoal]

It is entitlement

[wide wigeon]

that is what they were told they were going to get for so long

[stable shoal]

How much time you played this game like really tell me

[wide wigeon]

you cant get mad at people for expecting that lol

years

[crystal crown]

they have different owners though, so it don't count as lying

[stable shoal]

People are mad I just watch the really dumb way to see how the world works

[thorny sapphire]

That's how I look at it. Divide the number of hours of enjoyment and compare it to the price of a movie and consider a movie's duration

[wide wigeon]

they game has been in development for 6 years

[stable shoal]

So you paid 30$ and you still expect them to give you content for free forever

When literally they told you that they haven't being profitable in a while

You seem pretty entitled like many other here

[wide wigeon]

I expect the game I paid for the at least be finished all the way before being told that I need to pay for more when initially I was told I would never need to pay for anything else

[stable shoal]

Doesn't matter that all this devs loose their jobs and they family get screwed as long you get your next season's for free until they stop working on the game

[wide wigeon]

The story isnt done

[stable shoal]

Well played

[wide wigeon]

the classes all have bugs of varing seriousness

[sharp osprey]

Honestly, if they would pull the plug right now I still would have gotten my moneys worth. So far I only paid for the base version of the game and got 800 hours out of it.
That is a very good value for that money and no reason to complain for me.

That being said, I do not favour any kind of paid DLC in these games but I will simply just wait until the time comes and when I dislike it I will drop the game there and then and that really is the end of the story.

Plenty of other games around and no reason to get upset about it too much imo.

[stable shoal]

We all hot our money worth thats the problem people talk like the selfish entitled people they are

[wide wigeon]

those examples are just off the top of my head

[crystal crown]

no one cares about the story, the reason the esc button exist on keyboards is to skip story in games

[stable shoal]

I have 1700 hours for 30$

Like idk what else you want from them

[kindred aurora]

I hate to say I told you so, but I told you so. I warned you that Krafton taking over would have consequences, not 1 person here took it seriously

[thorny sapphire]

I mean I think most live service games need paid DLC to be sustainable

[crystal crown]

id buy for downloadable content to skip all cutscenes automatic lol

[stable shoal]

I personally cant take seriously people who complain about Ai

When its inevitable well time to skip this channel and the complaints lol

[indigo mist]

normally I'm against AI but then I saw the OPM thing on a youtube short and god damn... Maybe AI isn't always that bad.

[sharp osprey]

Yeah sure, you are the only person who said this.
That is why the LE reddit was full of posts about people saying this. But not 1 !!!!!1!11 took it seriously

Oh boy...

[kindred aurora]

https://external-preview.redd.it/new-mastery-selection-window-v0-TCYuMsBJt-fArBg7OQomtliNWwe9W0Y2Riy1kpmmtnw.jpeg?width=1080&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=6251c840ae1198fa611edda5594c4027752892ba

[warm cape]

can someone summarize the current drama

[jade oxide]

serious qn, was the message from jude from 2018 in #👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs deleted

[grave magnet]

Broke angy boomers

[wide wigeon]

paid classes free expac

[night marten]

Ehg said 6 years ago no paid stuff...and today there is news of paid stuff

[compact dawn]

AI is just a tool like anything else, how it's used is what matters

[gleaming wind]

What if i buy new class and try but i dont like it

[jade oxide]

horrible optics all this is tbh

[night marten]

Shouldnt have been. But if it was there are pleanty of screenshots of it

[compact dawn]

probably tired of it being quoted all the time, but does look bad

[crystal crown]

poor people are sad because a game they bought 4 years ago isn't going to have free content till the day they die, like they were "promised"

[wide wigeon]

EHG have brought this on themselves. They should never have said we wouldnt have to pay for anything more then the base game

[crystal crown]

but they are poor, so no1 cares about them

[warm cape]

tbf the way the usually make AI better is by stealing stuff from people

[brittle quartz]

What an absolute tone deaf comment

[indigo mist]

I have a different view on the Paid character thing so I'm weirdly inbetween both sides.

[compact dawn]

Technically coding is the same way, along with art. Code is built on the shoulders of giants, and same with art

[sharp osprey]

anyone calling people "poor" because they are against a certain kind of monetization (justified or not) has brain damage

[quick jackal]

Well, when you sell the game on the basis of that promise, it does mean something.

[night marten]

Nope, still there

[jade oxide]

ah, thanks for checking

[crystal crown]

words of a poor

[night marten]

It is still there

[wide wigeon]

exactly

[sharp osprey]

are you really this immature?

[warm cape]

the "giants" in this case are hard-working artists, and regular joes like you and me in the case of gmail

[wide wigeon]

dont feed the troll sit

sir*

[compact dawn]

I agree to a pain, however the cat's out of the bag now... no real going back

[warm cape]

the game literally does not have a finished main story no? and there's already talks of an expansion?

[thorny sapphire]

I mean I'm just wondering beyond the being lied to, how is $10 breaking anyone's bank?

[night marten]

Chat, rules 1 please.

[sharp osprey]

sad thing is people like that are usually not trolling and simply extremely small minded

[wide wigeon]

its not

[brittle quartz]

Tbh I do not blame EHG for this. Krafton paid more for their studio than they probably ever imagined being possible.
What I despise is the commercial practice of bloated acquisition corporations pushing Enshitification further down the path with each move they make.

[thorny sapphire]

I just read it. Noted.

[jade oxide]

the ending is uh… is it completed from the latest season’s new chapter? i doubt it is

[warm cape]

the abrupt ending feels bad

[wide wigeon]

EHG is absolutely to blame. They sold the idea of an ever evolving ARPG that you only ever had to pay $35 for

[night marten]

Story is missing 2 chs

[quick jackal]

This would just be the beginning. It's not the price (for the most part), it is the slippery slope that would occur after it. Plus it is just terrible monetization overall, and anti-consumer, as well as predatory.

[stable forum]

On its own, nothing. The fear is that it will lead to more and more and more, until the game is a mess of mtx and pay to win.

[night marten]

Tho i would expect the xpac to finish it at the very least

[indigo mist]

imagine they do the PoE2 route and just add intermission until they actually have the last 2 chapters

[brittle quartz]

They share some of the blame, but I don't think it's fair to say they hold the majority of it. You'd most likely fold against your principles if someone offered you 90 million dollars for something that was once a pipe dream

[sharp osprey]

I mean the idea was to make money of cosmetics but that clearly didn't work out.
But I do believe that is also their blame honestly. Like, seriously, just look at their MTX. I don't think any of them look good, at all.

For the most part they look like plastic armor pieces glued together and sprayed with cheap paint and I can't blame anyone for not wanting to spend money on those.

[night marten]

It is mildly frustrating tho when half the player base is upset that the story isnt done and the other half is upset that ch10 was made at all. Lol

[wide wigeon]

I would not have asked for people to pay money on the premise of a lie to begin with

[indigo mist]

as people has stated many times before, Dreams don't pay for food.

[quick jackal]

Well, the way I look at it is that they shouldn't even be talking about MTX until what they have offered up to begin with is finished first.

[thorny sapphire]

Something isn't a lie that you believe you can deliver on and make a good faith effort to deliver on

[warm cape]

store page getting review bombed lol

I just saw the prices on the cosmetics again. anyone who bought any of them you're part of the problem

[indigo mist]

it's a broken promise... which isn't a lie... Look at No Man's Sky as an example. Lots of broken promises at the start.

[calm zodiac]

TBH they should remove campaign entirelly

[thorny sapphire]

Absolutely

[brittle quartz]

It's a blessing in disguise. I've been too busy with the POE/POE2 release cycles anyway.

[indigo mist]

you excited for Druid? Spellcaster or Animal Friend?

[quick jackal]

And they didn't charge a dime above the initial asking price, and look at what they have done for their community since.

[wide wigeon]

Yeah, I agree that saying they lied is going to far for sure

[brittle quartz]

Full werewolf time

[wide wigeon]

didnt mean to reply to you with that lol

[indigo mist]

ohhh right. Transformation forgot about that... Heard there was a 3rd one. Werewolf, Bear and whatever 3rd is.

[brittle quartz]

Rumored to be Wyvern transformation

[sharp osprey]

LE TUCAN

[brittle quartz]

PRAISE TUCAN

[jade oxide]

i would hope so too, but we got this state of the story when we moved from EA to release, and usually that’s when something like the story should have been completed at that point

afaik, i dont even think at this point cosmetics work in offline mode yet, which is something that should have been done before release

heck, a lot of things that really should have been done before release still isnt done to this day imo

[wide wigeon]

that is a major part of my beef with the situation honestly

too much in LE feels not quite all the way finished

[quick jackal]

It is also why I am against Diablo IV and it's development as well. Begging for money before the game is fixed/finished to begin with.

[brittle quartz]

I'm conflicted because I want Krafton to lose as much capital as humanly possible, but I still have some loyalty towards EHG

[wide wigeon]

since EHG said they wont be speeding up releases of patches, every single season needs to be a a banger for things not to go south

[sharp osprey]

While I am aware that some people enjoy playing a ARPG campaign, I argue the vast majority of long time players really don't care about it and it is just a means to an end to get to the endgame.

And in that regard, they did update the game with cycles and in that regard I am also fine with them adding MTX in form of cosmetics.

But as I said earlier, in LE (imo) they just look complete ass. There is not a single item in the cash shop the looks good imo and I haven't even spend the points from my supporter pack on anything because I just can't be bothered.

While in PoE for example I buy stuff regulary (when they give me a good leage that is) because the MTX look amazing.

[thorny sapphire]

Maybe I have no concept of money but I'm fine sinking hundreds in my hobbies each year

[wide wigeon]

At the end of the day this extra money they got will need to make Krafton money.

[jade oxide]

that whole announcement post does not give them any respite either, the roadmap only tells you that we have 2 seasons before expansion (no dates still), they made the expac free but classes paid (and people definitely took note of this, imagine the reception we’d see instead if the expac was paid, but new class was a part of it instead for example), and its like 1/3 to 1/2 of their blog post being job postings.

it just doesnt look good. bad look,bad look, bad look

[quick jackal]

I just want the game to be good, complete, and feature rich, and to actually be good for the community, as well as the genre at large. All they are doing now is burying their own community and throwing the game in the toilet with this direction, as well as further steering the genre in the wrong direction.

[sharp osprey]

Seriously, no one can be surprised about them not making enough money with cosmetics when they look they way they do.

[turbid dagger]

honestly I started grieving the game after the krafton sale announcement and I'm over it now. It's 🍿 for me now watching the white knights make fools of themselves. peace

[night marten]

They should work in offline as of s3 afaik. Tho there is a bug with all cosmetics that is pinned.

Eh. They had to release. They were in ea too long

[quick jackal]

I have no problem sinking money into hobbies as well, but the thing is, the products I buy need to be worth that money to begin with.

[thorny sapphire]

It doesn't help but we can't deny that people buy things based on whether they feel mandatory or not

[wide wigeon]

Like I have always said in this convo. EHG should have made LE an offline ARPG then made LE 2 as a live service

[brittle quartz]

They don't. I play the game exclusively offline on my steam deck and my purchases don't appear.

[wide wigeon]

They jumped into the deep end wanting everything

and began to sink

[thorny sapphire]

Sure but when we're hearing about people playing hundreds or thousands of hours, that more than exceeds that value

[night marten]

I believe you have to login once online to "link" them so to speak. But that would be a support thing if it doesnt fix

!support

[rancid basalt]

Anything we can help with? We've support articles and a contact form at https://support.lastepoch.com/.

[quick jackal]

I am going to disagree, especially when you compare to other games in the past.

[calm zodiac]

I mean, ive played 400 hours, it sure felt like a value purchase, even got the game for like 5 other ppl

[sharp osprey]

Sure, but in the case of PoE i'd argue most long term players who still buy MTX already have all the stashtabs they need (I guess this is what you were getting to?) But the base game at least also is free, compared to LE.

Also I do thing something liek stashtabs are still a very different thing from an actual playable class.

[brittle quartz]

I'm going to make a live service ARPG that links directly to your bank account and charges 0.005¢ every time a skill is used.

[warm cape]

how's the balance among the existing classes these days? I sorta remember sentinel being 2ez op

[wet heron]

Is that pretty cool there will be paid classes?

[thorny sapphire]

People keep talking about POE and f2p games and I don't like them an iota

[indigo mist]

but if players are sleeping you're losing money... make it so that it charges every 30 minutes instead... like those cards from ragnarok way back when.

[night marten]

All classes can do all content. But there are still some nasty outliers dmg wise

[brittle quartz]

Spin to win sentinel is literally baby mode

[wet heron]

So heres what I would do, make the classes more op than the others so people feel excited to pay for them. Give them an extra power boost

[warm cape]

so you're paying for an easy mode? meh

[quick jackal]

I am not. I am talking about games like Skyrim, Grim Dawn, Elden Ring, or many others.

[stone edge]

welcome to having 80% of your playerbase cry about pay2win

[inner finch]

only if we get a class that throws ice cream on enemies

[wet heron]

I guess this is a real kraton move lol

[sharp osprey]

what makes sentinel so strong is his entire kit being very tanky without having to invest too much on pretty much any build
and other classes can do that too dont et me wrong, but sentinel is just pretty good in that regard, kinda like playing any type of beserker/jugg/slayer in poe
just insane baseline defensive kit that makes it very forgiving to play

[indigo mist]

a while ago it was pasta now it's ice cream...

[quick jackal]

This is exactly what they will do, to drive FOMO and "make" people want to buy the class. It is a shitty business practice.

[thorny sapphire]

I also don't like those games 🤐

[night marten]

Fresh grole milk ice cream only

[brittle quartz]

Mint Chocolate Chip does hybrid chill/poison dmg

[inner finch]

Italian Chef class is sealed and shipped. Now we're working on other ones

[indigo mist]

how about a Curry chef?

[quick jackal]

Which is fine, but you can't disagree that the "value for money" proposition is thrown out the window with them.

[brittle quartz]

Dissentary debuff

[stone edge]

no matter how it turns out, any paid class will be viewed as pay2win... make it more powerful/fun/interesting--it's pay2win .. prioritize bug fixes and balance issues with the paid classes--it's pay2win

[thorny sapphire]

It is not because people value things to different degrees

[granite kindle]

KRAFTON, Inc. acquired Eleventh Hour Games (EHG) on July 25, 2025, in a deal worth an initial $96 million.
are you a krafton plant since you just joined recently 🤣

[wet heron]

I’m looking at the comments right now, no one is excited for these paid classes lmao. Like no one..

[warm cape]

now does all gear look the same on your character as they do on their icon?

[stone edge]

youre funny, i've been playing the game since early beta

[quick jackal]

I value quality, completeness, and replayability.

[indigo mist]

some are neutral about it but yeah. I've not seen one that's like jumping for joy about it.

[wet heron]

People saying what if they nerf the classes into the ground or the reverse lol

[brittle quartz]

Old people who've never played a video game in their life trying to monetize video games. Tale as old as the PC computer.

[stone edge]

there is not a single upside to having paid classes.. none, zero, nada

[granite kindle]

make better skins or burn and not destroy promises cause ur losing money . what about the 96m you got from krafton

[quick jackal]

Why would they be? Would you be excited to be given the opportunity to give more money for hardly anything?

[thorny sapphire]

I value live service games that aren't f2p and that have an end game. I've historically enjoyed MMOs but these last few years I've veered toward ARPGs

[indigo mist]

there is... it pays back a bit of the money krafton invested... it's an upside for krafton at least.

[granite kindle]

there is on the money side. since you will buy it while i will pirate it 🤣

[stone edge]

so it just compounds one moronic business decision, with another? (i cant say im surprised, tbh)

[stone edge]

youre so edgy... can the rest of us be like you, when you finally grow up?

[wide wigeon]

what burns is that David Brevick said he wanted to publish LE lol

[quick jackal]

Honestly, live service is a fool's errand currently. I haven't found one that actually lives up to the "service" part of that agreement. But they are all happy to take your money.

[brittle quartz]

Unfortunately for them, most won't give them a dime off principle alone. I never minded giving EHG a few bucks here and there. I will not fund Krafton and their business practices

[granite kindle]

sorry mr krafton plant ❤️

[stone edge]

oh noes... im so hurt... or... something

[wet heron]

Omg are in a E rated server? Lmao. I can’t say p I ssed off?? Bruh

[thorny sapphire]

Is subjective. That much I know

[calm zodiac]

I wanna be a krafton plant as well, hopefully they're paying good.

[stone edge]

I'm a fern already, not sure I can be 2 plants at once

[brittle quartz]

I'm in contact with most of your FBI handlers at this very moment

[indigo mist]

oh totally. I'd still continue playing the game but I don't think I can see myself spending on the game if this is the kind of monetization we're gonna get moving forwards.

[calm zodiac]

Damn, lmk when yall hiring

[granite kindle]

why that post was deleted

[radiant nebula]

Yeah - I think a lot of the reaction right now is because much of the core loyal fan base feels a Krafton rug pull is at play, and they feel generally mislead about the games original promise/monetization strategy that was a purchase motivator for many in the past. For many, this is going to be “confirmation” of the fear of Krafton taking over and there’s nothing EHG can really do to mitigate that aside from changing the direction.

The reality is that plans change as companies grow, and this is just a byproduct of that. I think at the very least EHG will need a deeper community message around this that explains the direction…but even with that, it’s still going to be a “feel bad” change for many.

Wishing the team the best as they navigate it.

[wet heron]

Well are yall gonna play Druid

[granite kindle]

okay its back

[brittle quartz]

Duh

[granite kindle]

yes and i dont even like druid just wanna try it

[warm cape]

why did they rush the 1.0 release? who was pressuring them?
if they had just polished the game more in EA, people would be more excited at this stage for a paid expansion (where you normally include new classes)

[wet heron]

Can you imagine if we had to pay for Druid? Lmao

[granite kindle]

pretty sure this krafton deal was already on place lmaoo thats why

[wide wigeon]

money

[calm zodiac]

I'm playing cod now, them i'll play poe league, them LE league in january

[stone edge]

imagine if you paid for Warlock, given its current state of shittiness

[indigo mist]

excited to have pet dogs at my side and not the abominations we have as enemies.

[warm cape]

wasnt that the point of the stupidly expensive cosmetics?

[wet heron]

Yeah I wonder how transformations there will be

[quick jackal]

Yup, and for me their plans are the wrong direction and they have lost a customer as a result of these plans come to fruition. I will just stick with other games, and just like with the Wolcen devs, any future endeavors they make will just be ignored by me.

[wide wigeon]

If I paid for sentinel in S2 and S3 I would have felt like i hit the lottery lol

[stone edge]

which wouldn't be so terrible, if they looked better than what a dog, with a paint on its paws, could create

[brittle quartz]

WEEKEND SALE: Buy Temporal Sanctum key with portal charm for only $9.99 $5.49.
This weekend only!

[wide wigeon]

until I got bored due to how easy the game was with Sent

[radiant nebula]

That’s valid and fair - you gave EHG your money for an expectation that was set and that expectation has been altered.

I’m reserving my full opinion until I see how this all shakes out in detail, but at a 30,000ft level, it doesn’t look or feel great for sure…but that’s obviously with a very limited amount of information at the moment.

[quick jackal]

And I would be fine with them changing to a paid expansion pack model over MTX, honestly. But MTX is a hard no from me. The value proposition just isn't there.

[indigo mist]

oh cool. Someone who shares the same sentiment.

[thorny sapphire]

Friendship!

[indigo mist]

only difference is I'm here to stay for the ride.

[quick jackal]

It is honestly the only consumer-facing approach. Anything else is just to take advantage of customers.

[wet heron]

I wanan pay for a legendary weapon with the rolls I want

[indigo mist]

I'm very willing to pay for an expansion of a game I already like knowing I'll like the expansion too... I can't stomach paying for a character that I don't even know if I'll like or not... I'm not much of a betting man.

[quick jackal]

You paid for it when you bought the game. You just need to find it!

[indigo mist]

check out MG... it has tons of things there.

[quick jackal]

Yup, and too much of that parcels everything up into little, tiny, overpriced packages. It is the Paradox route, and it is garbage.

[crystal token]

nahh this is not it chief 💀💀🤙🤙

[indigo mist]

welp, we can speculate all we like but when it finally drops is when we'll see whether this decision was just a speck in time or EHG's "Last Epoch"

[inner finch]

ill think of more food related classes meanwhile

[median perch]

🦎

[stable forum]

gimme a bard with an electric guitar mtx

[median perch]

They dont

[steep wraith]

Krafton won't affect last epoch, yeah right...

[solid plume]

By the wording of Judd's post, seems like EHG plan to sell every new class as paid DLC.
I didn't play much this season, maybe 25-30 hours at most but I still bought the legend supporter pack despite the cosmetics being mediocre at best. I'm not coming back for season 4 in this state.

[crisp moth]

Having a paid character before finishing the campaign is certainly a choice

[steep wraith]

No one will

[crystal crown]

expansion a year away, so maybe we will have campaign done by then to be fair.

[calm zodiac]

They didn't say every new class, they said the paradox classes, wathever are those, there may be other classes coming for free, who knows I'd not be surprised if the expansion add another class for free alongside this paradox one

[calm zodiac]

Most likely yes, it's only 2 chapters left if not mistaken, and there's 2 leagues to go

[stable forum]

I dunno about that. They were working on chapter 10 for a while apparently

[solid plume]

It's not explicitly mentioned yes but it's worded that way.

[indigo mist]

that's very optimistic and you know it.

[ivory moth]

Paradox classes seems like a new classes lock behind paywall. They worded that “experimental” and see how far they can push it. If it sells it’ll be another d4 where every new class is gonna be paid for.

[crystal crown]

Only gen Alpha kids can be mad about buying a game 4 years ago, being told they will need to buy a char class 1 year from now

All EHG need to do is name the class pack 6 7, and bam now they will buy it instead of crying

[quick magnet]

They tried the GGG formula. It didn't work.

In fact the only reason GGG spiraled out of control like they did is because D3 didn't land with the OGs and they were chased off to PoE

LE has no such circumstantial boon

[solar moon]

The only reason everyone so mad here is the game isn't good enough to warrant asking money for a new class. D4 did the EXACT same thing cause spiritborn is locked behind a paywall and it's a very strong class

[ivory moth]

Well it did. It was supposed to be for the players that see PoE as too overbearing with its trees. And D4 with its oversimplified tree.

[solar moon]

Literally D4 did the same thing but we didn't get all upset about it we paid it and moved on

[stable forum]

how is that optimistic exactly? The language really specifically only talks about the paradox class, nothing at all about any new masteries or base classes at all. Maybe they will, but I completely disagree that the language points to that right now

[quick magnet]

Well when they need money, how good one thinks the game is isn't really a factor they can consider

especially since that doesn't apply to the whole playerbase

[crystal crown]

They need better item designers, the cosmetics suck :(, been looking forward to skill cosmetics forever, least we got some now, still nothing that great though

[ivory moth]

I didnt paid for it. I drop it the moment they announce the paid dlc (same price as the base game btw)

[indigo mist]

I mean about the part that they'll make a new class that's not paywalled...

[solar moon]

It's not but it's why players are mad currently. Not enough content to warrant this

[indigo mist]

I see no reason to make new classes that aren't paywalled if there's already a precedent of a new class with paywall.

[quick magnet]

That's not really relevant either

the content we have now is content we already have. If you didn't pay for that, well, surprise, you need to pay for more.

Hell, classes are content but it's a fragment of what content will actually be delivered. Which, mind you, was the rationale for this.

[solid plume]

Sure, if the game was FREE

[quick magnet]

Frankly I understand what they're doing specifically here, especially given how much work a new class is.

Lets not keep squaking about "paid games with paid dlc", being some problem. That's been the norm since before free to play even took off here

This isn't an MMO but MMOs actually do this

you don't complain about those nearly as loudly.

And that's actual content delivery for everyone

[crystal crown]

assuming the people upset about paying for good content, are the same people who don't tip at restaurants

[quick magnet]

No. Not even remotely. People are upset about that one big flagship thing being paid. The actually stuff you take characters through is more impactful than a single new way to go through it

[acoustic palm]

It's the good content in the room with us? I refuse to pay until all skills are functional. It sucks to have skills bugged since 6 years ago. Some bugs are older than the devs.

[quick magnet]

I feel like some examples need to be provided here

[acoustic palm]

We already paid once.

[quick magnet]

Not only is that a bold claim, it's nested in hyperbole so it's hard to read

You say that as if it has to be the only thing that sells to do that

If it sells well enough, they can keep going

If they can keep going, they can make more individual things to sell

[solid plume]

How is that the same? Tipping culture exists pretty much only in America. The rest of the world don't do that.

[acoustic palm]

Runemaster passive is bugged, can't remember the name since game is not installed, but it is bugged and still bugged after it was fixed. You can test it out on the training droll.

[crystal crown]

I think so ya, I have many hours played, assuming you do to. Ya lots of bugs, just like any game. So don't buy the new class when it comes out, because yes it WILL have bugs, I can almost guarantee you that, so just don't purchase it, and hopefully they get fixed faster then 6 years :p

[quick magnet]

That isn't really informative if you can't tell me what the bug is nor how it was not fixed after an attempt.

But I'll take your word for it

[acoustic palm]

And I reached 3k corruption with that runemaster character, so I think I know a thing or two about it. Call me a flamer but I think if you all bought as many MTX packages as I did. Krafton wouldn't own LE now

[quick magnet]

Well that's a lot of conjecture at the end of the day. neither of us know what's in the cards.

That's hardly a call you can make but ok

[daring yacht]

when does the new season drop?

[thorny sapphire]

2026

[indigo mist]

around feb next year.

is what the people here estimates.

[quick magnet]

it's ok to say "we dont know"

[indigo mist]

2026 then. happy?

[lofty oxide]

Base content lasts about long per season as a d3 season... (2-3 days max lol) and I'm not even a blaster blaster... and already going to release paid content? Guess I'll just stick with poe was sort of fun while it lasted. Besides the horrible AH and lack of boss drops on coe lol

Lmao can't react madliv but great point yeah 6mo between is horrible lol. This is way too much on a PAID game these days.

[stable forum]

I think Jan 8/15th would be prime to keep about even between poe leagues, which might be a bigger issue in the long run than most of what is being discussed here lol

[acoustic palm]

also, probably 6 months between leagues

the 4 months should be in December, 6 months is February

[quick magnet]

I'd rather just wait for word from the studio instead of trying to narrow the window down myself. Serves no purpose

[acoustic palm]

Yeah, that was private server quality. I saw more added stuff in Metin 2 private servers when I was a kid. They added a shop, a new mechanic that interacted with nothing, a few more items and called it a day. Disappointing. All their mechanics are pretty much kill monster, you can't mix two of them which kills the fun.

They are asking for 30 euro plus paid characters, that's same as diablo 4 monetisation.

So let's say 50-60 so you can play the new stuff as a new player. That money can get you much more in Diablo/Poe/GD or titan quest

[lofty oxide]

Yeah its highly likely this will be the 2nd d4, and un-installed lol

[dry urchin]

they saw the writing on the wall with GGG keeping POE1 running, not much room on the market for something that still has many classes and bosses that are mobile game tier, when the expansion underperforms suddenly the next expansion is also paid 🤷‍♂️

[acoustic palm]

We will see, but so far, we aren't on good feet. Maybe we are dooming

Sure, I don't mind paying if the game fixes all the problems, give us MTX that doesnt look bad ( because LE has worst looking MTX in any arpg) and gives us a lot of content.

[lofty oxide]

Facts. Ggg has issues but at least they don't do us dirty like this 😂 and they are owned by tencent.... the fact they can keep it f2p besides stash says something

[lofty oxide]

Agreed the art style doesn't allow for much in the way of mtx imo. I only ever bought i think 1 pack just because it looked alright... nothing looks great though

[acoustic palm]

If you buy a package with 60 euro in Poe, you get both games with all the stashes and 15 years of content to run.

[crystal crown]

you said you bought many a MTX for this game, and its the paid char class that's making you mad? I'm not complaining about paying for MTX cosmetics (I think its also good, and good to support the company) but the cosmetics in this game are very lackluster and you choose to buy them, but a char you draw the line?

[lofty oxide]

I've played since 10$ beta buy in to poe 1 dont gotta convince me haha.

[tidal heart]

You all so good at managing tabs I easily spent $40 on just my async tabs this league for Poe 1 😂

[lofty oxide]

Lol i had about 20 of my 40 pre quads I converted

[clear axle]

Welp guess they came to a crossroad to choose between the path of poe or diablo and they chose diablo. Loved this game to hell but I guess all good things must come to an end, peace out guys

[acoustic palm]

yes, MTX is voluntary supporting company, paid chars make me mad cuz it's locking content

[tidal heart]

Yeah like I just got a buddy into Poe 1 this league from Poe 2 idk how you all only spend $10 he easily dropped like $200 on everything this league

[acoustic palm]

And I am sure that the new classes that are paid will get more love than my runemaster.

That's what upset me

[crystal crown]

this I can at least agree with

[lofty oxide]

Lol it's easy to spend on poe because the mtx actually look badass haha

[solar moon]

Which is optional though. I get folks mad it's behind a paywall but it's 2025 everything costs and everything expensive welcome to modern gaming. There are very few games that come out that don't have some bs attached to it.
Where Winds Meet ONLY can provide all their content free cause they're cosmetics are insanely priced to entice whales.
There's a $40000 boat that is bought frequently and that lets the rest of us enjoy the game

[acoustic palm]

Why LE isn't selling custom portals like Poe.

[quick magnet]

They do

[acoustic palm]

They do?

[lofty oxide]

Yeah they do just mostly mid

[tidal heart]

I mean even if you actually play the game you got like div cards, delve, fragments, blight and other tabs you need. I’m sure you can be frugal and use a quad to go through stuff but idk how you all have the patience for that if you actually mapping 😂

[acoustic palm]

My bad then

[quick magnet]

There just isn't an output pace like PoE has

in fact, I don't think ANY game is going to keep pace with PoE and that has spoiled the general populace

[lofty oxide]

Buying all stash tab types during a sale isn't it to bad i imagine can get them all for around 50$ maybe lil more now idk. But yeah I've played for 13 years... I have a lot of tabs :p of all types

[solar moon]

Main issue is unfortunately LE isn't in a spot where they can get away with charging for a class. Game isn't anywhere near done or have the amount of content and playerbase necessary to warrant this

[acoustic palm]

It's not even just Poe. Titan quest 2 is alpha and the game looks so good for 25 euro

[quick magnet]

???

[tidal heart]

Last epoch made the mistake of trying to cater mtx to grim dawn old school arpg players. Guarantee you if they put out some booba skins it would run their entire seasons.

[quick magnet]

a game looking good is a matter of opinion.

[solar moon]

Even D4 got away with charging for a class lmao we didn't even hat an eye lash just went with it

[quick magnet]

The game could look like ass as long as it'd fun and has a lot to do

[crystal crown]

They need better cosmetics for sure, they are really bad, more skill cosmetics please, hopefully they get new artist

[acoustic palm]

True, but good looking MTX is easier to sell.

[solar moon]

I think people just need to call a spade and keep it a buck. Obviously the game doesn't look as good as modern ones like Poe2 and D4 but that's ok them

[quick magnet]

and "good looking" is still hellishly subjective in a way no one on the internet seems to comprehend

[lofty oxide]

It doesn't look as good as poe 1 and that's a 14~ year old game. That's free 2 play

[acoustic palm]

Looking good= makes my dopamine increase when I see the pixels, in my opinion

[river path]

the pixels

[quick magnet]

Yes, in your opinion. Which is the opinion of one person. You share it with many, I'm sure, but not nearly enough to move anyone's needle.

[acoustic palm]

Agreed

But you can't make money if you don't sell

[quick magnet]

There are plenty of people that like what's there as it is now, but this is also the efforts of a smaller studio with fewer hands and not nearly the asset density of PoE

[acoustic palm]

Like the options for MTX are sort of limited compared to D4/poe

[quick magnet]

PoE didn't start off making bangers like they do

[stable forum]

okay serious question since I didn't play POE 10 years ago, were the MTX always this good or did they get a lot better over time?

[quick magnet]

They had to work to that level of appeal, and even that only took off after they started gettin' fancy with them and having them do shit in game

[acoustic palm]

Well LE has the same employees like GGG prior Poe 2. So if we compare two teams with the same number of people, we should expect bangers no?

[quick magnet]

Those cosmetic gimmicks do a lot of heavy lifting

[river path]

one of the first poe mtx was a horrible mistake. They added Razer footprints, some sponsored fluo green footprints in the shape of the razer logo. The community was pretty upset by that 😄

[solid plume]

Hold on, how do you not know LE has cosmetic portals and claim to have bought so many MTX packages?

[lofty oxide]

Have gotten better but we're always solid

[crystal crown]

they got better over time, but they were never as bad as LE either, never once were they kindergarten bad

[lofty oxide]

Lol yup I have these hahahah

[acoustic palm]

Sure, if we compare Poe 1 which had 10 employees 15 years ago, sure. It sucked ass

[quick magnet]

I was there for the razr footprints

That's just it, it sucked ass by today's standards

Not the standards of back then.

[lofty oxide]

Yeah and it was made in a garage by a few friends initially lol

[acoustic palm]

Fair, yeah people standards evolve in time

[quick magnet]

Evolve is one word for it

[lofty oxide]

My most used weapon effect mtx is still divine. Think it was the first one I bought

[river path]

same for me but the cheaper supporter pack, I use the regal effect the most (shiny pink)

[forest bear]

Excited to play the new stuff but it's wild that 2 more seasons happen before the console release

[lofty oxide]

Can't remember if divine came from a pack or not lol was many years ago xD

[acoustic palm]

But yaah, if we look at D4, the new classes are always overpowered

So it sucks that we are missing these ones.

I will play the 1.4, I hope there is more end game to do. But for me this roadmap is a red flag.

I may be a bad judge? Sure

[lofty oxide]

Just such a strange hill to die on. The base game was finally starting to get decent. Wasn't anywhere near ready to consider paid content walling.

[indigo mist]

Easy answer to this... Look at old pets.

They're very dated.

[acoustic palm]

You can still find old hideouts that are pretty much empty maps charging 20 euro lol

[strong echo]

i kickstarted it, the graphics in beta, were pretty bad lol, it is def improving

[lofty oxide]

Poe was on Kickstart?

[acoustic palm]

Yeah

[quick magnet]

D4 has gotten one new class

[forest bear]

Yeah, as someone who has been playing PoE for well over a decade at this point, the game was definitely a game lmao

[acoustic palm]

Like 15 years ago, the studio was really indie by that time

[quick magnet]

That doesn't set any precedent

[river path]

GGG had the advantage that Diablo 3 was a mess at the time and people were exploring

[lofty oxide]

I never heard of it til they were charging 10$ beta buy on thats when I joined

[forest bear]

Compared to now I meant

3 acts and nothing else to do

[indigo mist]

Hard to believe right? And now were getting midfing'd by jonathan kek

[forest bear]

They even had PvP back then, y'all remember that

[lofty oxide]

Was 2 acts when I joined

[indigo mist]

Isn't it still in the game?

[acoustic palm]

They even made a MTX with the middle finger

[forest bear]

Like PvP League

[quick magnet]

They have pvp now, it's just that no one plays arpgs for pvp

[forest bear]

It was a wild time for PoE

[indigo mist]

Wait seriously? What's the mtx called?

[quick magnet]

it inevitably falls out of fashion given the scope of power in games like this

[acoustic palm]

Remember Poe battle royal lol

[river path]

Yeah I remember WillyWonka using some CastOnDeath skill gem , rocking the PvP highscore

[acoustic palm]

They gave the MTX for free, twitch view, it's a guy that counts your gold and how much you spent on what. Sometimes he adjust his glasses with the middle finger like Jonathan did.

[river path]

He would just run up to people and die

[indigo mist]

Ohhhh right him lmaooo

[calm zodiac]

i mean, i particularly dont care much, if the class interest me i'll buy, if not i'll skip, simple as that.

[acoustic palm]

At least we can dual wield capybaras