💬┃general

[simple bison]

Sounds like a plan, good luck ^^

[light charm]

thanks

appreciate it

[simple bison]

It's almost 1 am here so I'll have to pass

[light charm]

i got the sort of dream job that will prolly take me into my old age

ah no biggie i'm East Coast US

[simple bison]

Otherwise I'd be down. I haven't played that much in live this season

[light charm]

i c

[simple bison]

Yeah I'm euw

[light charm]

it's 6:42 PM here

well if you like you can add me here for later

[simple bison]

Dope! Congratulations!

[light charm]

thanks i am a church organist

i got a new Music Director position, fantastic pipe organ, nice priest to work with, nice parishioners

been doing it for 45 years

my first pay is like Thursday of this week

[simple bison]

Oh wow, well I hope you settle in nicely and enjoy it ^^

[light charm]

$600 guaranteed bi-weekly with more depending on the extra Masses

yeah i was stressed at first, millions of questions and hard to find answers, but now things are fairly straightened out

beauty is i can collect SSDI simultaneously w/o a prob

thanks again for the advice, it helped, you're prolly gonna crash soon, so rest well and take care, just add me please if you want for later

[simple bison]

Sure, what's your in game name? Mines same as here

[light charm]

nice to know there is still Light in this dark world

TARDIS10

[simple bison]

You can add me too, the friend list works one way so I don't have to accept to get added to your list

[light charm]

you are blocking requests

[simple bison]

Hm? In game?

[light charm]

in Discord

i'm pianoman8888 here

[simple bison]

I am? O.o I don't know when I did that lol

[light charm]

haha no worries

nice to meet ya

[simple bison]

Nice to meet you too

[light charm]

thanks!

[lyric cargo]

Is there a way to target the multi laser at the end of Uber or is it just luck that I still have a place to stand

[green imp]

Adding an experimental affix to an item, does it just roll with T1? Or should i try get a prefix with T7 for it to overtake?

[glad hound]

Im a casual dad and made a solo AF char accidentally... stuck with it and am soooo close to 100

[steep river]

Details https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-tombs-of-the-erased-patch-notes/75247#heading--crafting-experimental

The chance of higher tier outcomes increases with the combined prefix tiers. Exalted prefixes tiers contribute much more increase to the chance for higher tier outcomes.
Max tier outcome is 5, but a Rune of Havoc can be used to swap an Exalted tier onto the Experimental affix you added.

[grand birch]

I’m a new one hand and shield Paladin, what skills should I be Specializing? I’m debating on doing Holy Aura at the moment but have no idea what I’m doing

[steep river]

There's a #🔱┃sentinel channel. Or if you want some build ideas you can check out LE Tools builds https://www.lastepochtools.com/builds/ or Maxroll builds https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch

[quaint aurora]

does anyone else just play seasonal to avoid the horror of their old stash

like what the hell's even goin on in here

[pastel summit]

No, I embrace it

Even if reorganizing it causes my entire game to hang

And I probably could liquidate about 60% of these because I got them before the affix ranges were loosened up.

[steep river]

Yes : )

[severe cave]

why no loot filter option for keystones ?

[lyric cargo]

There was a T-Rex waiting outside my monolith then when I joined the monolith it just stayed as a companion lol

Wish I could always get double rexies

[dense shale]

Ya know, I've gone and dabbled in POE2, I was just dabbling in Hero Siege, but Last epoch really has the most enjoyable build diversity and theory crafting.

Really hope LE Cracks down and adds some nice bulky content

[pastel summit]

They, like all other keys, will always appear regardless of loot filter settings.

I do think the latest update is stretching the definition of "key"

[green imp]

So the issue becomes you need a t7 suffix, if the experimental eats your t7 option it's bricked

[delicate torrent]

lowkey wish i could have POE2's raw gameplay and combat but LE's progression and crafting

[buoyant turret]

im struggling to even start this season of poe. LE's qol has spoiled me

[main frigate]

I want poe 2's art and animation + le's difficulty and sizes of maps + tq 2's passive and skill trees + d4's storytelling

[buoyant turret]

one thing i really appreciate about le is the controls and inputs are very good for a game that isnt even finished. i focus in and out of the game constantly to other monitors, swap from controller to kb/mouse on the fly, game has never missed a beat

[main frigate]

poe is too old on qol. poe 2 better a lot

[buoyant turret]

yeah. i actually havent tried controller support yet in 2, but it was pretty bad in 1

it was tacked on after the fact though so what are you gonna do

[untold parcel]

god damnit, the one time i want those ward boots off of formosus and he refuses to drop them, but usually you drown in the suckers

[carmine cargo]

Wich build kills uber abberoth the easiest? Like with the least amount of required gear

[tardy burrow]

then it requires skill and mechanic understanding

reflect druid/shaman for example

if you know how to dodge 😄

[carmine cargo]

Anything else besides something dodge reliant?

[latent acorn]

The swarmblade and falconeer one shot builds last season in question

Kinda sad they got patched uber is too tedious to farm with bad gear

[south moat]

Bearquake apparently slaps uberroth silly

[carmine cargo]

Im not asking for a build with bad gear. Im asking wich build of the uberroth viable ones require the least amount of gear.

[latent acorn]

If build can do uber fairly well on bad gear - it can do him even better with good gear

[tardy burrow]

so, you want an easiest build with cheapest gear that require no skills to do hardest boss

[willow sentinel]

Such a wild statement to me

Uber is the hardest piece of content in the game

I hope it's tedious to farm with bad gear, ideally you can't even do it with bad gear

[carmine cargo]

Are you actually illiterate?

English must be your fifth language at least like Omg

[simple bison]

Keep it civil.

[severe socket]

🍿

[carmine cargo]

Im asking wich of the uber viable builds require the least amount of gear. I am well aware that the gear will still have to be very good since uber abberoth is the hardest content in this game by far. I also never said i want to play something no skill/ easy

Cant even ask questions no more

[simple bison]

Nobody is stopping you from asking questions, just don't hurl insults please. Even if their interpretation of what you said might have been wrong, it's a simple misunderstanding.

[severe socket]

Also worth noting that some people might just have a bad day and find nothing better than screw around with others.

Been there.

[dry sedge]

Hi, im playing on offline mode I saw an update saying I can buy cosmetics offline, but I can't see i on game, any help?

[simple bison]

You likely would have to buy them while online, but you'll have access to them in offline

[dry sedge]

So I need go online mode and buy then I can access them on offline?
Sorry abit blurry but okay ill try to check thanks

[simple bison]

Yeah, pretty sure the shop is unavailable in offline since how would you buy stuff without internet

[dry sedge]

I play with internet I just like playing on offline mode ever since

I mean im at my house and I have internet connection, I just play on offline mode

[simple bison]

Yes. What I meant was when you're playing offline, the game can't guarantee that you have an internet connection, so the shop is unavailable whether you have internet or not while you're playing offline. In online the game can guarantee you're connected to the internet, so the shop is available

[dry sedge]

Oh ok make sense, ayt ill check it out

[vestal mica]

So the new Flay skill on the Lich has a short dash as part of the attack. I really like the idea of that (Although dont love how far into the tree it is, dont feel like i can level well as melee).

Are there other skills in the game like that? That have movement as part of the attack, but can be used either without cooldown or with a very small one?

[simple bison]

nope

unless you'd count warpath and other channeled skills

[vestal mica]

Thats a shame. I've played with skills like that in other games and always found the feedback they have nice, much less 'Wiffing' of attacks and you get around a little better

[vestal mica]

Are there other Channelled skills where you move as part of it in Melee?

[simple bison]

Don't think there are any other melee ones, but things like mana guide focus and ghostflame let you channel while moving

Net in rogue technically has a movement component too

you can make it jump forward

[vestal mica]

Oh?

[severe socket]

Yep, there's a node that reverses the jump direction.

Bottom-right keystone node named Assault of the Huntress.

(low key makes it look like she's fart-propelled, lol)

[vestal mica]

It does look strange lol

I guess it is what i asked for lol

[simple bison]

:p

[vestal mica]

https://tenor.com/view/monkeys-paw-paw-monkey-gif-17535679

[simple bison]

it do be curling

[vestal mica]

I guess im just trying to get over that feeling of having to run between every enemy, then stop to attack. I think i want something more fluid.

Maybe i do just need a Spin to Win build lol

[simple bison]

I think you might find that even if you use a cooldown mobility skill with a non-mobility offensive skill, at low enough cooldowns and high enough use rates it'll start feeling fluid

You can get the cooldown of some traversal skills down to 2 seconds or less

[vestal mica]

I'm actually just looking at Volitle Reversal

Which seems to be able to do that

[simple bison]

combined with an attack skill that takes a fraction of a second to cast and it'll feel fairly fluid in my experience

aerial assault and surge are other examples

I'm sure there's more too

[vestal mica]

Guess i need to level a Spellblade lol

[simple bison]

This is the upper bound of what you can do though. I usually run at a 2 second cd, not much difference

[high kettle]

I did the surge thing last season its pretty fun once you have the parts

but needs kinda a lot to actually feel good

[simple bison]

I just use it as my traversal but yeah

[sick flicker]

So Im lv 61 now and reached endgame I suppose, what do now :D? Do I just do the maps and continue gearing or is there something specific I should do?

[simple bison]

You'll want to start working towards the level 90 timelines, once you complete one of those you'll unlock empowered and start the forgotten knights questline

[sick flicker]

Ahh okay, thanks. What about shattered runes? Do I just buy them off the shop now?

[simple bison]

You can but I never do

[sick flicker]

Ah ok

[simple bison]

just depends on how shatter hungry you are lol

[sick flicker]

gotcha :D

[willow sentinel]

Serpent Strike

Volatile Reversal

Maul in Werebear

[vestal mica]

That lunge on Serpent strike is the exact kinda thing i was talking about 🙂

[inner finch]

Flay doesnt have a "Dash", it has an epilepsy inducing single frame teleport .
I really hope EHG can patch that into a fluid screen pan

[simple bison]

It's pretty intentionally instant, similar to something like flicker strike in poe

since if it wasn't it'd need to be slowed down

since an actual dash lasting like 3 frames would feel even worse

[inner finch]

Dashes can keep being instant while having screen pan, its not an issue

Anyone who played attack to teleport classes as far back as Diablo 3's Monk knows it

[simple bison]

Do you have your camera smoothing off maybe?

[inner finch]

I have tried both options

just made sure with a quick sanity check. yeah, this option is quite useless for the flay teleports

[upbeat folio]

do two ashes of mortality share one cooldown? i guess so

[willow sentinel]

Yes

[primal abyss]

Good day Travelers >:]

[south moat]

Hello there, Vandryll
How's it going today?

[primal abyss]

It goes well, it goes well. Yourself?

[south moat]

Could be better

[main frigate]

Beep!
Me: ?

A wild Van is appeared.
Me: Oh. (Press the key)

What will be happened?

[primal abyss]

I hope it gets better, then

Me? Wild? Possibly 🙂

[south moat]

It'll pass
Like all things do

but thank you

[main frigate]

Possibly. Think a good joke is hard for me.

[sick flicker]

What do I do with uniques/legendaries etc? I have no idea if any are good and its now taking a full stash tab :D

[south moat]

You let them rot in there and eventually possibly figure something out

[main frigate]

I think I should say a fluffy Van next time. I like fluffy stuff

[south moat]

Or imprint them

[sick flicker]

Sounds fair =D

[main frigate]

Anyways, just want to say "It's an rare thing of witness Van appear here". But I have no idea how to turn it into a joke.

Imprint is an uncomfortable, wild, insane, crazy, ridiculous and confusing word in le. But it's another story.

[untold heath]

is it fluffy?

[main frigate]

I can't say it's fluffy before EHG tell me how imprint work in le and why imprint is a part of weaver tree.

[south moat]

Why wouldn't it be a part of the weaver tree

[median perch]

@primal abyss When can we add a filter for the Temporal Keystone? I'm getting quite a headache with it

[primal abyss]

Honestly, I don't have any inkling of such things right now. However! Totally throw that suggestion in the #1210281911872786482 - if I hear anything anytime sooooon I'll let you know but yeah, right now I don't have the response you're probably looking for

I must play catch-up on seeing if folks been behaving 👀

[main frigate]

#1283903291956396104 message
#1283903291956396104 message
#1210289869725630554 message

Why imprint is not fluffy at all.

Maybe Derrick know how to turn it fluffy.

[sick flicker]

Am I missing something or are all maps right now lv 62?

[simple bison]

You need to go to the next timeline

if you open the world map (m) you can see the other islands (timelines)

your goal is to reach the level 90 islands

you do so by defeating each timelines boss

[sick flicker]

The top bar you mean? Doing the echos?

[simple bison]

yep

[sick flicker]

Ahhh okay makes more sense then, thanks

[turbid silo]

Funny, I'm working on changes to how we gather feedback today ^_^

[main frigate]

Don't wipe the trace of Ave. It's my only ask.

[sick flicker]

Do I save woven echos for now then? I just did this cemetery of the erased

[turbid silo]

What's that? (Forgive me, still new heh)

[south moat]

Averielle was the previous community manager

[turbid silo]

Gotcha

[steep river]

I personally do each one once as soon as possible for the Weaver tree points. But if you wanted to save a crafting one for later, that's fine

[main frigate]

Current frame of suggestions, feedback and bug reports are formed by posts. These posts are created by Wick and Ave. Wick gave ideas, Ave execute them. So all entrances (all of current posts) are Ave's traces. She built these posts and allow us to comments, it's the current way to provide suggestions, feedback and bug reports.

As Nub said. But she was resigned since July. I can't become a member of le's family and build a emotional connection of this server without her.

[south moat]

She didn't resign
Her contract ended. Different thing

[main frigate]

😅 The same for me because anyways she isn't here anymore.

Can't go on this topic because I want to cry again... :) Sorry

[steep river]

When you look at the Woven echoes in your inventory tab, the ones with a green + on them indicate that you'll get Weaver tree point(s) from the first completion. If you're looking at Masque in Haven of Silk, it doesn't show the green +, but you can mouse over them and if the bottom part about Weaver tree points is kind of greyed out that means you've gotten the point

[sick flicker]

Gotcha, so many new things now. I guess imma watch a video about how endgame works haha

[steep river]

Ok! Try to find one at least from 1.2 or newer. The Woven echoes stuff was introduced then

[sick flicker]

okido

[karmic prairie]

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2567869869 so apparently loot filter bug that hides items from prophecies is still in the game despite being claimed as "fixed" in s2.....

wonder how many people missed some loot 😅 this season

[north heath]

K, got uber on farm. What do i make now?

[north heath]

Yeah i reflexively double tap z after prophs cause of this

[willow sentinel]

Bleed Uphaval Beast master 😏

[north heath]

Is that a real build?

[willow sentinel]

Nope

But you could make it to be

[north heath]

I kinda want to do something with the bleed gloves

That isnt vengeance

Something with clear

[willow sentinel]

Hammer Smite ?

[north heath]

Stupid work blocks letools

[inner finch]

Plenty of Sentinel based bleed possibilities

[willow sentinel]

Multistrike Smite ?

[inner finch]

you can do Judgement, Smite, Warpath

[willow sentinel]

Bleed Judgement ???

[inner finch]

its an ailment general build

[mellow skiff]

hi all is any one can help me explain on FORGE GUARD build in what conditions can apply two-handed sword in one site and shield in other site??? is passives skill or only apply for FG build only?? thanks you all😓

[inner finch]

bleed among them

[willow sentinel]

I have never seen an ailment Judgement build Oo

[inner finch]

you can infuse ailments in that, it just wont be pure

not like how Smite or one of the melee attacks would

[north heath]

Yeah i was thinking this or javs possibly

[willow sentinel]

Bleed Forge Strike could be fun

Jav is really nice clear

But you would have to play with Sierpin

At least for clear

[north heath]

If a skill converts ignite to electrify inside the skill and then the gloves convert electrify to bleed, does the conversion go through?

[glass pendant]

you can also play falconer

hello

[buoyant turret]

i dont think double conversion is a thing

[willow sentinel]

1. Gloves convert shocks, not electrifies
2. The order of conversion is Item > Skill > Passives
   So gloves loose anyway

[north heath]

Ok yeah i guess i was thinking about conversion incorrectly

[willow sentinel]

It is for outgoing ailments

[buoyant turret]

oh i see

[north heath]

I figured that all conversion in the tree would happen first and then present as a final value to be modified by items

[steep river]

There's a node at the end of the Forge Guard tree that lets you equip a 2H Weapon and Shield

[kindred current]

Calamity doesn't drop for me. And I went full Fire Sorc.....

[buoyant turret]

rune of ascendency aught to not be a crazy chance i would think

[kindred current]

I tried, wont come out lol. I'm already lvl 77

All rune of ascendancy to helmet

[buoyant turret]

just shy of 7% chance it seems

[kindred current]

Funny as well, it wont show up even on those summon sticks with bosses on em

[buoyant turret]

the nemesis. yeah. when the rng kills you on a more common item it especially feels rough

[latent acorn]

I miss face tanking him tho, was fun to swim laps in time omympic sized pools of the void puddles

My fav part defo gotta be redirecting and face tanking the beam away from my teammates, too bad the cleanse doesn’t work as well now

[kindred current]

So jet lagged I forgot the name of nemesis

[latent acorn]

Tho I see why it got nerfed lol, Abby is supposed to be the final boss and he was getting abused

[frank oracle]

Reflect shaman vs frogs?

[willow sentinel]

I guess we dont play the game the same way

[inner sand]

so i couldn't find this on the website, but when's the next cycle start?

[willow sentinel]

Well, we dont know ^^

[inner sand]

how long do they typically last? i assumed 3 months

[willow sentinel]

Its still pretty early in s3

More like 4 months

[inner sand]

oh

guess i'll put some time into some other builds at some point this cycle, then.

[steep river]

3-4 months probably. For reference, Season 2 released April 17 and Season 3 released August 21. So that's about 4 months for Season 2 length.

[inner sand]

unlike PoE2, i love how fast getting someone up and running is

oh, makes me wonder if cycle 4 may start on my birthday or christmas. 😮

[steep river]

As Vlad mentioned, there hasn't been a date announced yet. Season 3 was announced on June 27 with the August 21 launch date was announced at the same time.

[inner sand]

i know, you told me. was just making a conversational piece there.

[steep river]

Was trying to give a frame of time for the announcement.

[inner sand]

you already did, though. 🙂

[willow sentinel]

I am sure they are aiming for your bday 🥳

[inner sand]

😮

[steep river]

Those two messages did have different dates : )

[inner sand]

imagine they did. lol

[steep river]

If they do the Season 4 announcement 2 months into Season 3 like they did last Season, maybe there will be an announcement in October. Maybe Oct 24-ish ? We'll have to see : )

[north heath]

Are there any super tanky rogue builds or they mostly dont get hit builds?

[main frigate]

Rogue suppose to be squishy in current games unfortunately.

[buoyant turret]

the tradeoff for going zoom zoom

[reef briar]

Is there a known workaround for the waypoint not sending you back to the original timeline after you campaign skip via the lightless arbor dungeon?

the corrupted lake isn't sending me back

[still yacht]

server ping suxx

[willow sentinel]

I walked all the way back to the beginning of the zone

[reef briar]

Thanks. that was my solution as well...silly it hasn't been patched until now. it wasn't the first time

[hallow scroll]

Is there an item rack of sorts for my cosmetics or do I have to re-equip each piece every log in?

[south moat]

It shouldn't require you to re-equip each piece every log in

[frozen creek]

<@&1161418687471956101> non-embedded scam (multiple channels)

That was either a quick response, or at the same time xD

[south moat]

Sometimes the moderators are fast

and will surprise you

[crude sun]

https://tenor.com/view/marmot-gif-14972349041502516342

[acoustic palm]

Well, after seeing the trailer for d4 next season ... LE wasn't that bad

[crystal pond]

Ballistas or Acid Flask do you recommend for starting with Rogue?

[short onyx]

Ballistas

[inland anvil]

Does the game still end at ||Snake Lady||?

[night marten]

no

ch10 was added this patch

[inland anvil]

wonderful.

[round turtle]

hey guys, isn't there an item or skill or something that converts glancing blow to block?

[simple bison]

Yes theres the corsairs set

[green imp]

They remove snapshotting of minions? Never read the changes to minions

[glass pendant]

yeah but there are some very strong minion builds right now

[green imp]

All good just checking if i had to bother doing it with my Spriggan

[dense shale]

If I have a shield but no weapon, am I still considered unarmed?

[steep river]

Yes

[lyric cargo]

Does immortal vise stat that reduces damage taken by 30% do anything on low life ward builds?

[balmy sleet]

Is there a faster way to farm out evolution's ends or do I really have to mash out 7 evolutions each time

[surreal radish]

Thx very much for ur help to a new player @viral zephyr and @opaque maple u guys r awesome

[earnest elk]

What’s going on with the high ping on EU west servers? I’m on Telekom Fiber.

https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/high-ping-after-update-1-3-1/79277

[frank oracle]

Reflect shaman vs frogs?

[simple bison]

Yes

Same thing it does for health builds

[tardy burrow]

for what?

if you want walk simulator => reflect druid/shaman, if you want funny summoner build => frogs

both are very strong builds

[pastel summit]

Is there a way to transform into an anurok

I don't wanna be human any more, only frogge

[tardy burrow]

Soon

[ruby kernel]

yo anyone on who can help me kill The Fading Brink node

for the 2 points

weaver tree

🙁

its ok

[stark hamlet]

why does my XP bar keep ticking past lvl100 ?

[short locust]

It's just for fun afaik

[raw spindle]

Damn the problem still exists? It's been like 1 or 2 months.

Well, I just play on US east (or west? I forgot)

As an European my ping is lower and more stable there

[short locust]

To my understanding, there's been quite a lot of problems with the routing companies responsible for the connectivity between regions (as in countries or groups of countries) messing up the last year. If connection issues arise because of something like that, there's nothing EHG can do.

Your best course of action if that is the case is probably to test different servers, test a VPN, test a VPN on different servers, possibly talk to your ISP (but mainly just for info because they're unlikely to be able to do something when a bigger network company gives them bad performance, though you never know), change ISP, use traceroute and see where packets are dropped or delayed, etc

[untold heath]

I just found my first lp4 item

[willow sentinel]

Gg!

Which one?

[untold heath]

A hammer I don't need... Hammer of Lorent

[inner finch]

I hope Lorent isn't too offended by this

[hallow scroll]

Hey EHG anyway to get ahold is Displate to get some posters going for my collection? They have two right now but I wanted licensed awesomeness.

[untold heath]

he can have his hammer back, I don't mind 😂

[tulip niche]

Frogs is also a walking sim tbf

Probably even more so

[night marten]

Throw it in #1210282176680169562 or #1210281911872786482 to let them know.

They arent gonna see it here

[sick flicker]

Can I shatter items faster somehow? Or do I always have to put it into forge :D?

[simple bison]

Always in the forge

It's not something you'll need to keep doing for very long tbh

At least it's not in my experience. Unless you're playing like 5 different builds that is

[untold heath]

Gotta love random friend requests after saying something on a public server.... everyday female online life 🙄

[glass pendant]

that's not what it is

We have a botting issue

Those aren't real accounts

[untold heath]

Oh I think bots are a different issue

But it's fine, I just ignore them 😄

/me takes a edding and paints a Vessel of Strife over the Hammer

[sick flicker]

Aight cool c:

[sharp hedge]

i recommend putting a specific filter for really important affixes that you need, so you know which one ur in need of the most

like the + level to skills

[sick flicker]

Yee right now I get decent gold which lets me buy all the shatter runes I need for now, but it's the first time I'm playing so I have no idea

[sharp hedge]

ah dw ull get a huge load of those later on as well

[sick flicker]

Ah ok

[haughty dune]

Hello guys,... I have bought a new handheld, installed steam, and LE, but i am stack on login screen, it says steam - server is offline

I can play LE on my laptop normally

And i am connected online ofc.

[lost eagle]

wtf did get kick for inactivity, i'm sorting my stash seriously😠

[untold heath]

happens to me all the time.... also happens when fiddling with loot filter or pulling prophecies

all the cool activities that hide the warnings 😂

but seriously, I am glad that I am not the only one... my husband haven't had any issues of that yet

[calm jay]

Are you updated/running the most updated version? Make sure your options aren't set to anything special that would prevent you running the most updated version or anything, also make sure your launch prefs aren't set to offline lol.

Otherwise if the device has installed + run LE in the same session, I might try turning it off (not just restarting) and then back on again. Yeah the mainstay, but hey, when in doubt...

[haughty dune]

Yes, i have updated everything, and running online 🙂

On Lenovo legion S, it showing the server issue, when i try on my PC it works

[hard lynx]

Is it normal that the mummy in the spider-cave are very tanky and one shot me?

[main frigate]

Catch a Kain

[coarse swallow]

Today we have Wick playing a Flay Harvest Lich buiild in the Cozy Stream.

Come hang out with the CM team, and play some Last Epoch!

https://discord.com/channels/368953963267096586/1091515511797461102

[brave mortar]

anyone else just lag out just now

[wise vortex]

ballista or explosive ballista is stronger?

[dapper plume]

so we have an update patch but tis downloa dis uber mega slow whats going on ?

1m/s

1mb*

[coarse swallow]

Unfortunately download speeds are completely between Steam and yourself, we can't offer any insight there I'm afraid 🙁

[dapper plume]

not is ewitet 100% steam or 100% ghg

1md it not my speed

i jsut tested it

and other games doenload fime on steam

its only LE

that is slow

not its at 800k/s ... =.= and yes restated seam already

it msut be EHG

[severe socket]

Keep in mind that EHG has next to nothing to do with Steam's file repositories.

They only upload files there.

[dapper plume]

its only LE tho other games download fine

[severe socket]

It's either the closest Steam repository you're having issues with or your own ISP.

[coarse swallow]

Our servers aren't involved in it at all. We give Steam the data, and they distribute a patch. Some possibilities:

• Steam has throttled the update due to demand (unlikely)
• Your ISP is throttling your connection (unlikely as other downloads are currently occuring at full speed)
• There is a network issue enroute between you and Steam's servers

[dapper plume]

then you msut knock on steam its door

its literaly only your game

and other games dl fine

[severe socket]

...

[vapid axle]

zzzz

it downloaded fine, gg

[turbid silo]

Something to also note is that not every game is on every server for Steam. If Last Epoch's update is on a different server that other games that are downloading fine are, then that can impact speeds as well.

[simple bison]

I download it just fine

Try swapping your steam download server

[severe socket]

Same for me, files flied in just fine.

[simple bison]

might help

[dapper plume]

its still danwlodign at 1mb/s atm

i dont even have a progress bar its that slow

[severe socket]

Actually, I'm having another issue here: I can't get past character selection screen. EU-West.

Clicking Enter Game does nothing. 🙂

No VPN engaged.

[simple bison]

Go into steam settings -> downloads and try swapping your download region to a different one, even if it's further away

[severe socket]

Local files verified.

...oh, nevermind, I got in.

[simple bison]

lol

[turbid silo]

I was able to use EU-West and get passed selection

[dapper plume]

how is that gone help ? ZS im saying all other games DL fine its only LE ..

[severe socket]

Guess it was a momentary glitch.

[coarse swallow]

If there is an issue with the pathway your ISP has chosen between you and Steam's server, chosing a different server creates a different pathway, and may no longer encounter that issue.

[dapper plume]

only for 1 specific game ?

[turbid silo]

@dapper plume, we have no control over anything to do with Steam. Any issues with the platform need to be directed to Steam Support here: https://support.steampowered.com.

[simple bison]

Yes, it's very possible

[dapper plume]

XD

[simple bison]

It's weird for sure, since it's all stored and sent from the same steam servers (has nothing to do with EHG's servers as mentioned), but it's for sure possible

[storm steeple]

restarting steam worked for me

[simple bison]

and changing download region changes which steam server you download from

So it's very possible for it to help

[dapper plume]

if i need to shange that for 1 specific game then steam is te wors thing even if i have to do that for all my games there is no way thats the issue here

[simple bison]

You shouldn't need to. Does this always happen with LE for you?

[dapper plume]

no

[simple bison]

Or was this the first time?

[dapper plume]

first time

if it was a know issue would have come hre

[simple bison]

Then it's possible other files are having the same issue. It might just be the specific server in the specific region you're downloading from that's struggling because it's getting a lot of traffic or something, and when you try other games it's possible they're coming from a different server in the same region, which is why other games seem to be fine

there's a lot of different reasons this could be happening. But pretty much none of them are EHG's fault or something they can do something about

[coarse swallow]

Think of us as Farmers, and Steam as a grocery store. You're having an issue at the till getting the product to scan, it takes a bunch of attempts, and it's going slow.

It's not the farmer, it's the grocery store. We make the patch data, but Steam is the distributor. Unfortunately, it really is completely out of our hands.

[severe socket]

Is it possible to highlight temporal keystones via loot filter?

[simple bison]

Nope

[severe socket]

A shame.

[simple bison]

it's classified as a key which you can't filter

[dapper plume]

if you give bad grocery to the grocery store .. the store might be bad to its has the same produce =.=

[simple bison]

The produce (patch) is clearly fine seeing how others can download it without issue

[steep river]

Try going into key section, selecting all, set a drop beam, and drop one on the ground.

I haven't tried recently, but that was working for me earlier. They weren't on the key list when I initially did this when 1.3 launched, but by selecting all keys, and throwing one on the ground, it was showing up. I'm not at home to test right now or I would

[simple bison]

wait what you can filter keys now?

lol

[steep river]

Yeah but Temporal Keystones weren't on the list, at least initially

Might have be updated in one of the patches

So I was using a red drop beam for all keys for a while

Patch 1.3.1 made it so that rule wasn't necessary so I deleted it

Make it more obvious when Primordial Materials, Temporal Keystones, and Merchants Guild/Black Market Tokens drop so that folks are less likely to miss them.
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-hotfix-1-3-1-notes/79240

I'm not sure if they're actually in the filter list now, though

Now they're marked by the red symbol on the mini map like the other keys by default

[rocky mauve]

got rolledback at perfect slam cause of update 🙁

[coarse swallow]

Have you submitted a bug report?

[novel oriole]

how often do cosmetic items go on sale? how long is the rotation?

[turbid silo]

Rotation happens Monday and Friday

[nocturne niche]

Any news about the balance patch?

[simple bison]

What balance patch?

[nocturne niche]

Skill and class balance, the one we are waiting for

[simple bison]

Have they mentioned a balance patch coming mid seasson? generally there are no balance changes mid season

I'm legit asking since I haven't heard of one. Not trying to be facetious or anything

[nocturne niche]

I heard about it on a couple of streams.

[coarse swallow]

I'm not aware of anything myself. We're currently working on fixing bugs, and on Season 4.

We're trying to get to a more regular, and quicker release cadence than the last couple of years where we had long patches, and creating a large balance patch mid-season would delay season 4 and hurt that plan.

There may have been a misunderstanding, such as Season 4 containing balance changes, or some minor balance changes in patches. Unfortunately Mike is out today, so I can't check what he may have meant.

But we're not expecting a large balance patch before Season 4 to my knowledge.

[nocturne niche]

Okay then, thanks for the info. 👍🏻

[loud fable]

I might be confusing it with the Season Reset poll, but didn't they have another, and decided NOT to do mid-season changes, unless bugs were involved?

https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/mid-cycle-build-balance-survey/67482

[mellow tree]

Since this game doesn't seem to have the "adventure mode" similar to d3/d4, do we have guides on how to skip as much as possible to hit endgame? Is adventure mode on the roadmap?

[latent jacinth]

You use dungeons to skip the campaign. It's extremely easy. And feels great. It is perhaps the best anti-campaign system in any ARPG I have come across. I love it. And I have a lot of harsh words to say about forced campaigns.

[mellow tree]

Do you need anything to access the dungeons to skip? Map says "if this is unlocked" and I know you needed keys in the past to go into the dungeon

Seems like getting to end time the first time is railed on campaign, right?

[latent jacinth]

Right

[mellow tree]

So the skip guide is "just do dungeons whenever they are available"?

[steep river]

Yeah. Let's take a trip back in 2024 and talk about Ghostflame, Dive Bomb, and Profane Veil node Vampiric Blood.

March 6, 2024. In the 1.0.2 update they made changes mid season to Ghostflame and Dive Bomb because they were leading to server instability - crashes

We’re changing them because of the performance impact these skills are causing, more specifically their tendency to crash servers.
https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-patch-1-0-2-notes/66953

The stance at that point was to only change skills that were causing issues like server crashes and not to correct an overpowered issue from a bug - Profane Veil. From that same 1.0.2 update:

Our current stance is that we won’t issue mid-cycle changes for balance, such as with Profane Veil’s Vampiric Blood node.

Some players weren't happy about that - lot of 'why did Dive Bomb get changed but not Profane Veil?'

March 8, 2024. They posted the survey you mentioned. https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/mid-cycle-build-balance-survey/67482

March 14, 2024, they posted the poll results https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/mid-cycle-balance-survey-recap/68542 and the stance changes were that they would fix overperforming bugs:

We will release fixes mid-cycle for bugs which result in an item, skill, or build highly overperforming.

And the 1.0.3 update corrected the Profane Veil node that was over performing due to a bug:

Fixed a bug where Profane Veil’s Vampiric Pool gave 40% of the consumed minion’s maximum health as ward, instead of the listed 4% https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-patch-1-0-3-patch-notes/68385

[brave grove]

while nobody was looking, Lex Luthor consumed 40% of the minion's health as ward. That's as many as four tens. And that's overpowered.

[loud fable]

Right, so it was as I remembered it. That means Mike might've meant that there are some bugs that are causing builds to overperform, and that's what the patch would be about.

[stray vector]

Is Mana Flay Lich still good after the new patch D:

[main frigate]

The server is empty, silent, soulless and rough when Mike and Judd is out

[proud wing]

I see some messages at the forum about loot filter and prophecies.

Could you guys please advise if there is any ongoing issue?

[broken siren]

@wary river your guide is very good. If I was new and I came across your build after reading other build guides yours would stand out as my favorite.

[wary river]

thats very kind of you to say 🙂 thanks for taking the time to read it!

[broken siren]

no problem! 😄

[honest belfry]

Can I get a link to it? I'm curious

[wary river]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/build-guides/immortal-stone-shadow-cascade-bladedancer

[slow cloud]

Immortal Stone Shadow Cascade Bladedancer Build Guide

Game Cycle / Version

Beneath Ancient Skies / 1.3.2

Class

Rogue / Bladedancer

Used skills

• Shurikens
• Shift
• Shadow Cascade
• Synchronized Strike
• Umbral Blades

Used unique items

• Snowblind
• Null Portent
• Eye of Reen
• Traitor's Tongue
• Falcon Fists
• Shattered Chains
• Army of Skin
• Siphon of Anguish
• Carcinization of Momentum
• Blossom of Immortal Stone
• Twisted Heart of Uhkeiros

Tags

Boss Killer / Monolith Farmer / Melee

Created by TheDarkOmen · Sep 16, 2025, 11:34 PM

[honest belfry]

I may spin up a blade dancer just so I have an excuse to try this. Bonus because I already have most of the gear listed in my stash. Nice work!

[wary river]

thanks!

[broken siren]

Wick trust me the shadow cascade bladedancer build is the perfect build out of any hack and slash/arpg I have ever done

for me at least

for my playstyle

[main frigate]

I guess it will be picked up in next Eterra monthly article. So don't worry, I bet Wick will try that

[honest belfry]

Already have one for this month, but it's certainly a strong contender for next month.

[broken siren]

@honest belfry whats your favorite class in the game?

[honest belfry]

tough choice. Right now it's Warlock. Before that it was marksman. But I'm really enjoying lich right now too.

[broken siren]

for me its gotta be bladedancer and spellblade

[honest belfry]

There's just something about Warlock to me that feels powerful. Chaos Bolts and Cthonic Fissure together is just this visceral chaos that I'm attached to. Even when the build is subpar, as one of my favorite youtubers would say, "I can feel it in my gut bones."

[wary river]

my friend loves fissure for that exact reason

[broken siren]

hehe yeah LE has something for everyone tbh. It's an amazing game with so much to offer

[honest belfry]

If you could add any 1 skill to a class in LE, what would it be?

[wary river]

a rogue support skill to rival smoke bomb I think, ideally one with not as long of a cooldown

[broken siren]

hmmmm

[wary river]

right now theres smoke bomb and decoy for support skills, both have their uses but both are annoying to play around in my personal opinion

smoke is also just so strong with smoke blades and shrouds and one of the 2 cleanses rogue has its really hard not to take it with everything

shurikens kind of works with bladed armor, but thats one specific spec, not really a support skill in its own right

[honest belfry]

i can see that. I could almost imagine a smoke form of some kind that makes you invulnerable for a short period. It would lean into the ninja fantasy of melting into the shadows

[wary river]

ya, kind of like smoke screen in diablo 3, that could be fun

[tranquil scaffold]

Did they change the lp1 item taking one specific affix?

[wary river]

i enjoyed that ability

[wary river]

you have to be on tier 2 or higher of the Sanctum

[tranquil scaffold]

fk

i am sure 26 dodge will useful sometime

[broken siren]

hey Omen have you thought about talking about Confluence of Oblivion? Many people die to melee attack of shade of orobyss

[tranquil scaffold]

apart from that can i get a t8 exalt mod on a primodial unique?

[wary river]

i think i mentioned it where i talk about farming for Shattered Chains, but i dont mention how the shades are easier than normal shades i guess

[honest belfry]

You need a rune of evolution which you can get from Skarven. It works on any T7 exalted but the item becomes a primordial item after it's done.

[tranquil scaffold]

i meant a t8 exalt affix on a lp1 primodial unique through the julia machine

[wary river]

t8 cannot be placed on a unique because it is a sealed affix

[tranquil scaffold]

ty

[violet jetty]

Would anyone like to log my toon and tidy my stash up for me?

[dense shale]

I know this is purely opinion, but how much do you guys enjoy the end game build pushing portion of the game? It's pretty much just running higher corrupted timelines yes?

[violet jetty]

There's more to it. Min/Max your build using various methods to enable higher corr mono. This takes you to different end game features such as cof farming, timeline farming.
It can get a bit linear. But I feel the end game is going in the right direction in adding stuff that relates to current activities

The problem arises when you feel you've hit a wall with a build. Then it's season over, or roll an alt.

[dense shale]

Mmk mmk. It's hard fo rme to keep friends interested because all they ever hear is that the endgame lacks any real content.

But the build diversity in LE far surpasses the other ARPGs I've played so it draws me in

Most ARPGs these days are all one button builds. With LE I feel like I'm actually playing a build, not just using a skill

[violet jetty]

Try find peeps to play with. Hang around here long enough, and I'm sure you'll meet some buddies to play with.
If not, you can wind up the discord mods.
(This is the real end game)

[dense shale]

That's fair. Might just do that.

[willow sentinel]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-no-nonono-noooo-cat-no-gif-13597132752790194338

[knotty wing]

does jelkhor's blast cause detonating arrow to lose the Bow tag entirely, or does it just change the weapon specific stat it scales with?

assuming it changes it to a melee attack and gets rid of bow completely but wondering if anyone knew for sure

[willow sentinel]

It changes the tag

[knotty wing]

aw rip thanks

[mellow tree]

How do I obtain a lightless arbor key very early on in the campaign so I can skip?

[glass pendant]

I like this idea

carry me vlad

[south moat]

You most likely don't.

[mellow tree]

Personally, I feel like that should be improved. Maybe a new key type that makes the dungeon easier, but rewards bad loot or something, and is rewarded from the last major milestone. Just to faciliate skipping if you want.

[latent jacinth]

Is there a comfortable semi-auto-casting flask build right now?

I am coming off of mana stacking flay lich, so will need enough "zoom" to keep me captivated--but I don't need outright flicker strike, ha. But I do love going fast.

[glass pendant]

If you don't mind holding down trap, that's one of the best falconer builds right now

spicorr has a planner on the vids channel

[south moat]

#1210282176680169562

[steep river]

Explosive Trap node Instrument of the Alchemist can be used to proc Flasks. There's Falconer and Marksman variants

[latent jacinth]

That still means I am stopping to throw traps though, right? I don't mind that, but am worried the gameplay would be a bit "slow" comparatively. Ironic in that rogue used to be the absolute zoomiest class, at least from my perspective.

I just like flasks--it was one of my first builds, for whatever reason, so always dreamt of coming back to it.

[glass pendant]

Like I told you, it's currently one of the hardest hitting and zoomiest classes

Clears Uber in half a minute, destroys 1k, the only thing it can't do is push really high corruption (above 2k)

[glass pendant]

And bd

[latent jacinth]

Oh, it's you! OK, fine, fate demands it, then. Doing it.

[glass pendant]

Pretty sure spicorr uploaded setups for all 3 masteries and everyone of them kills Uber under a minute

[grave hornet]

any1 freezing too much ?

[autumn briar]

i haven't done mm version yet. also, they can push high corruption and kill a 10k shade, jessrabbert already tested

that's something i can try after also. also that's a proper shade, not the woven echo one which would be even easier to do

the bd mapping setup i have is 171% movement speed unbuffed and 221% with shift

[severe bay]

Corrupted Form still not fixed, the big lich rework and its big nice new capstone passive and it hasn't worked once entire season. not even a mention of it.

[thorn bane]

Well the first half of it works lol but rip the low life part

[brisk field]

Spent all season so far playing harvest lowlife lich. Really enjoying the insane amount of recovery from leech that sticks around and makes me immortal except from oneshots. Any other builds similar to this on other classes?

[fallen iron]

Is this build posted anywhere?

[autumn briar]

It's in the video shoutout channel

[fallen iron]

Thanks!

[tardy burrow]

nah you use buff, debuff, traversal skill to move and its around 3-4 buttons unless you are farming 100 corruption

[hoary urchin]

just zoom with ghostflame lich

[green imp]

Any way to target farm the echo that lets me put experimental stuff on items? Want one but have no echoes! -_-

[autumn briar]

best chance is to take graveyard prison and exiled but not forgotten weaver nodes, then run tombs and cemeteries

[green imp]

Don't want 2 mages in them?

[autumn briar]

do want

[reef dock]

failed all my 2lp slam attempts tonight. eye of reen w/ t7 melee phys & dodge, and 3 attempts at army of skin w/ t7 frenzy and vit 😩 bed time

[untold heath]

good morning!

[indigo copper]

Does anyone know why I am getting "you will be kicked" system messages in-game with no explainer on them?

I am just respeccing a character, I'm moving and zoning, and there's no patch or hotfix.

[raw spindle]

I love last epoch ||unironically||

[tulip niche]

I mostly only buffed when fighting bosses or champions, everything else died regardless so my typically mapping and just using a movement skill and the occasional tornado so you could call it a two button build but I would say it’s basically hands free outside of bossing.

I was farming 1.5k corruption before I died in HC.

[tulip niche]

I think it has been a bug all season from what I have heard.

[winter spear]

Gauntlet of Strife became bugged. Since the new patch It rerolls not just the unique item, but the sealed legendary affix too (between the tier tho). So In the past you could make a legendary with the desired affixes and reroll after, now you cant. I learned this today in the hard way.

[severe socket]

Did you report it?

[winter spear]

I wrote in the "Items and Gear" forum in this discord too. Idk how else should I report

[indigo copper]

Gotcha, first time I ran into it.

[south moat]

You can file bug reports by pressing F8 in game or clicking ESC and then clicking bug report there

[dry sedge]

Im playing on offline mode for a year now, but I felt separated to the world ever since joining on this LE discord almost 2 weeks now. Should I start playing on online? 😅😅😅

[untold heath]

The fact that you asked this question already tells the answer is YES

[dry sedge]

Ive been thinking alr what class to start with lol

[winter spear]

thank you

[main frigate]

No worries, you're not alone

But I have no interest in le so far so I'll think this issue again after EHG announced what'll coming in 1.4

[dry sedge]

Looking forward to it, I will try to play online (maybe) when the new cycle comes in

[severe socket]

Relatable.

I play online but still solo. Purely because parenting is a neverending torture that blocks me off from literally everything else and I have no friends whatsoever.

As for parenting, I'm a morbid and utter failure as a parent.

Or at least I feel that way.

[dry sedge]

I relate to this

I just chill , killing monsters whenever I get free time

[languid spire]

whats the different about online or not online

i always played leave version

[main frigate]

Social feature and can you use MG

[languid spire]

MG? transaction?idk

[main frigate]

Merchant guild, a faction which as similar as trading in Poe/Poe 2, provide a platform for exchanging excellent gears by currencies

[tardy burrow]

very nice 🔥 my frog build did combo leap, totem, war cry

[severe socket]

https://lastepochtools.com/profile/ShadowDweller/character/Aptio

My current main.

[dry sedge]

Offline is you're literally deattached to the world 🤣

[stark hamlet]

TBH, some sort of pity system would be nice to have.
Failing 5 slams in a row with 1/3 chance of success is not fun....

[burnt valley]

So I was having a good time cruising c300 with my frogs, full set up with 1LP T7s on all slots, made the jump from c330~ to almost 400 on a single shade, and now the cove beasts are shredding my frogs? Like, how is this evening balanced, I get that they can rip me, but the pets too? And at such "low" corruption? How am I even supposed to play like this

[simple bison]

How would a pity system even work? I can't think of one that's not abusable

the guaranteed affix is already quite a big give

[stark hamlet]

You select primary affix as usual.
You select secondary affix too.
If rng fails you X attempts in a row, X+1th attempt succeeds.

[simple bison]

Yeah so I throw a bunch of fodder uniques and exalts at it and get a guaranteed success on the good one

[past glacier]

I failed 10 2t7 slam in a row yesterday

litteraly 10 h of grind for nothing

[simple bison]

Would need to see your character but if you're also dying easily it sounds like you might just be undergeared

[verbal garden]

[burnt valley]

Don't have it ready as I'm at work but its basically almost 1:1 the endgame maxroll planner one with two extra T7 regen rolls instead of Strength for even more ward and tankyness 😕

[simple bison]

On the guide it does say that they'll just die and respawn. Are you saying they're dying so fast that they don't even get to kill anything?

[burnt valley]

Basically on 330 I could die if I stayed still but the pets were fine, at 390 over half of them was dead all the time and the cove clear speed took a nosedive, had to dance around the beast for an awkward amount of time while waiting for some of them to come back up and finish it off

Tbh I was expecting that kind of nuisance above c700 or something, not even before 400, bosses and normal monoliths are still one shots, so it worries me that I'll have to farm way lower corruption just to keep the beast clearing times efficient

[simple bison]

Honestly your best bet might be to ask Bina on his stream. He's been streaming LE every day quite a bit and he's the one who made the maxroll guide

To me it sounds like either a gameplay issue of not utilizing warcry stun optimally or there's something wrong since yeah the planner itself doesn't have a lot of minion defenses

[burnt valley]

Yeah I hang in there in the evenings but I had this issue after the stream was over and its still early atm but will surely ask

[simple bison]

Imo unless they're getting oneshot maybe just put on a ribbons of blood instead of the red ring temporarily

it'll give them tons of sustain

[burnt valley]

I wonder if having the weaver nodes that give them crystal hearts makes them even more insane despite them already having said heart by the nature of the echo 🤔

[untold heath]

crystal hearts for the frogs? am I missing something or are you mixing up 2 different things?

[simple bison]

If you're mg it can be worth farming a different primo to sell

[untold heath]

afaik they weren't asking about items, it was about their frogs dying too easily?

[simple bison]

Crystal hearts are used to purchase primordial items

They were running the woven echo that drops them and their frogs were dying

[untold heath]

and what exactly does that have to do with the frogs?

ah there is the relation I was missing 😂

Sorry, maybe a translation problem on my side, I am no native speaker

[simple bison]

You're good 👍

[burnt valley]

The relation was that I have the weaver node crystal growth for extra spawns during the campaign and monoliths to get the first Anurok and I wonder if the multi of that node is what is killing my minions

Although I don't want it to be, because if a mere 15% multi at 400 corruption is enough to shred them, how could they possibly go all the way up to 1k corruption

[untold heath]

Now I am confused again, but I better shut my mouth and leave this topic. Seems I am totally misunderstanding something here. I feel stupid.

[keen rock]

This SLAM system is miserable and fun killing. An entire week not a single 2LP or 3LP slam has gone how I want. Its like it has code to deliberately always ignore one of your T7s no matter what. Doesnt matter if its pre/suf, 2 pre, 2 suff, it always shafts you. Its the laziest, worst designed system in the entire game. It's so miserable, not fun, ruinous of your entire game experience.

You farm the item and the parts for days and in 1 second its garbage. Over and over and over and over and over again. It completely destroys the entire game experience.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dwI5b-wRLic

RNG is a legitimate game design device when used properly.

Output randomness should be used SPARINGLY and never for such incredibly dramatic consequences as taking tens or hundreds of hours of gameplay effort and flushing them down the toilet instantly and irrevocably.

No way to recover. No repair. No reset. Nothing. Just everything gone. All of that effort utterly destroyed by pure RNG.

Would it be cool if bosses had an RNG where they kill you and your character is deleted? No, of course not. This is basically the same thing just slightly smaller scale.

It actually takes longer to grind items for some slams than to level up an entire character, so this is arguably WORSE than permadeath bosses via RNG.

[burnt valley]

I guess no arpg atm has a truly satisfying endgame and item chase, at least for me personally none of them motivates me to truly refine a character. Ironically I only got close in D4 since its just a matter of time wasted on Belial until u get that 3 or 4 GA item

[keen rock]

Among the problems is its RNG on RNG on RNG on RNG, and then when you make it through all that, you click 1 button and everything you did is utterly destroyed. Gone. All the way back to square 0.

And when it happens for days and weeks on end.... its like.... why play? What am I even doing when everything I do is just deleted repeatedly by the game's RNG obsession.

[burnt valley]

I definitely feel that, did a few rounds of tower-turtle-eggs yesterday and it doesn't feel enjoyable tbh

[keen rock]

When you have a fun core gameplay experience, progression is fun. Even SLOW progression is fun.

But getting constantly set back to 0 by pure RNG is miserable and terrible game design.

• RNG to get the unique to drop.
• RNG to get the LP you need - perhaps multiple layers of RNG if you do the turtle/egg process.
• RNG to get the major runes (havoc and creation especially) to help make your material piece.
• RNG to get dual T7s.
• RNG to get the RIGHT dual T7s havoc'd around.
• RNG to get it crafted up, and get the other affixes something at least tolerable.

And after all that, at least 6 layers of RNG, all of which can fail countless times along the way... you roll up to finalize everything you've done... The exciting final resolution of ALL THOSE STEPS.....

Your triumphant journey to the Temporal Sanctum to combine them and realize the fruits of all your efforts....

And........... you should have just gone for a walk instead.

That's not how you design something that is supposed to be for entertainment. For Fun.

You don't put someone through all those steps, all those layers of RNG, just to pull a Lucy and rip the football away at the last moment.

And even worse, no pity system so it just happens over and over and over again.

A really funny and particularly CRUEL element of the system is the bone they throw you to supposedly balance things a little - critical success.

LOL! Every single person I've heard get a critical success, ended up with some random junk on their item. Because they went there for a guaranteed 1LP slam and so all the other affixes are garbage.

So even that little feature, which is supposed to be in the player's favor, is also a cruel rug pull.

[simple bison]

Critical success is not meant to be a "bone" or a kind of pity system or anything

[keen rock]

This is an absolutely fun as heck game with so much obvious love and care put into so much of it....... and the fun is wrecked by this brutal 2/3 LP slam system.

[simple bison]

Unsure why it would ever be a bad thing for it to happen but no, it's not meant as an insulting taunt

[keen rock]

Because literally everyone I've heard of getting one, got useless stats, or even conflicting stats. Like fire dmg on a physical dmg item, etc.

From a game design perspective, that's supposed to be something surprising and awesome. But the chances are SO low, you'd be stupid to plan for it. So the odds of it being at all good are super low.

[simple bison]

I mean it may very well be pretty much useless. But that doesn't mean it's bad. Adding a supposed "positive" system that ends up not doing much good does not mean that it took away from a different "positive" system that would actually help (like a pity system). It's not one or the other

[inner finch]

People get critical success slams? i dont

I never build on the options of it even existing

[keen rock]

It's just salt in the wound.

[keen rock]

Nobody does. You'd be crazy too. I've done hundreds, maybe thousands of slams, 0 critical successes.

[simple bison]

Yes you're not supposed to build the exalt around it

if it happens you might get an additional somewhat useful stat, if it doesn't or you hit a useless stat no harm no foul

and I have seen people get decent stats from them, even if you haven't

[keen rock]

honestly, the crit success is a weird thing to focus on since it almost never happens.

The point is, the "super good" result, is a joke

the super BAD result, is insanely common

[tall latch]

I'm 3 days old playing this game, any suggestions what should i watch in YT to be a immediate level player 😄 thank you guys

[keen rock]

From a pure TIME perspective, bricked T2/T3 slams on many items is basically worse than if bosses in the game had a % chance to just delete your character the moment you zone in.

that's how bad the RNG result is. that's how much time is destroyed by them.

[inner finch]

There's a bit of a paradox here

if all progression systems were purely linear, you would "finish" the game and trivialize the system

It would suffer Diablofication

[keen rock]

It would be more fun to level up an entire brand new character than to find certain 2LP/3LP uniques, craft up the fodder mat for the slam, and then have it go boom pointlessly. It's literally that bad, and pure RNG.

[keen rock]

Yeah but that doesn't address the point here.

[simple bison]

Why do you feel the obligation to farm up 2-3 lp uniques on high lpl uniques? Especially with how much you seem to dislike it

[keen rock]

Nobody is saying "remove all RNG"

[keen rock]

Why do you feel the obligation to get to level 10 when you are level 9? It's next.

[simple bison]

Because it's fun

once it stops being fun I stop

[keen rock]

What if every time you got the XP for your next level, there was a dice roll, and if you failed it, your character deleted?

that's literally this system

[simple bison]

a million corruption is technically possible, But I'd get bored to death before reaching it

is it? something is super time consuming and boring, so I don't do it

I feel like they're pretty parallel

At the end of the day the lp/slam system just delays you

there is an average amount of time it will take to hit the slam

same as there is an average amount of time to do anything

[keen rock]

At the end of the day, a 10% chance for your character to auto-delete on level up just delays you.

Would that make it good game design?

[simple bison]

No, but that's negative progression

that's actually a different topic

[keen rock]

That's exactly what 2LP/3LP slams are.

[simple bison]

they're not

missing a slam doesn't make you weaker

how so?

[keen rock]

The same way deleting your character does.

[simple bison]

you lose stats when you miss a slam?

[keen rock]

Because you're back to square 0 starting over.

[broken trench]

which slam is so strong that having a strong T7/T5 is so much worse than a T7/T7?

[simple bison]

you simply didn't gain anything. that's not the same as losing something

[night marten]

Losing stats and not getting desired stats are not the same.thing

[inner finch]

Not progressing doesnt mean you go back. You simply dont progress at this point, and you might progress at a future point

Your only enemy is your patience

[broken trench]

you're just tilted

[simple bison]

that's negative progression

not the same thing

Btw I'm not saying your opinion isn't valid or that the system is perfect

[keen rock]

No. It's exactly the same.

You put in time/effort, and when the moment came for the reward (level up, successful slam) instead all those time/effort was deleted.

It's exactly the same.

[simple bison]

but you're being a bit hyperbolic

[inner finch]

Would you delete your character if you fail a gem upgrade in Diablo, or a stat upgrade in Path of Exile? Would you delete your character because a random, chance-based item-enhancement system fails you?

[keen rock]

But it is worse, because it can take longer to farm the mats for 1 slam attempt than leveling an entire character 1-100

[inner finch]

If you reach the point where enhancing your character takes a lot of effort, you need to know that progression in ARPGs is simply not linear, and there comes a point where you will reach slower relative progression in endgame

[glass pendant]

For the record I completely agree with you. When you get to the endgame, gathering a unique with good rolls and an exalted is an atrocious grind. In other games, there either isn't any fp, or when wasting super rare items, at worst you get what you want with worse rolls. There's no such thing as "oh you hit enigma but no teleport on your chest" in d2

[keen rock]

There are always gamers who stubbornly defend the status quo because they can't see that a BETTER future is possible.

This has happened for decades in game design. Escort missions that fail when the idiot NPC dies. No save points/checkpoints within levels of games. No checkpoints near major bosses. The list is massive.

Bad features in video games that gamers stubbornly defended, even though they made everyone miserable, and then slowly, eventually, the industry woke up and moved on and stopped doing the bad thing.

[glass pendant]

The reason why you aren't finding people agreeing with you here is because hitting a character with maxed out double t7s is something a small slice of the community does, and therefore bricking uniques doesn't affect them that much

[keen rock]

And once the industry finally moved on, everyone was happy and looked back "oh wow that feature was bad!"

[keen rock]

Bro, you are preaching truth.

[simple bison]

I'm not defending the current system. I don't think it's that good either honestly. But just saying give us a pity system doesn't really do anything. If there was an actual good pity system that could be added honestly I'd wager there's a decent chance for it to be added

[glass pendant]

I know where you're coming from, you sound like you went the extra mile to do the grind, I know how bad it gets and I do feel like the current system is indeed built around t5/t7 characters

[simple bison]

But what I think is way more likely, and some of the devs have agreed. Is for there to be a hard limit on lp per unique

[keen rock]

Pity systems are a band aid. Better than nothing. But still a band aid.

[simple bison]

so that people who try to get unreasonable gear can't complain about not being able to get it

[glass pendant]

My humble opinion is that if super rare items don't get a chance to roll super rare lp, the gear chase will get even staler. It's already lacking ultra rare chase items as is

[keen rock]

What exists right now is horrible. I'd rather be playing the game, b/c the core gameloop is amazing.

But its an ARPG and a huge part of that is progression. And the system literally prevents that by constantly insulting your time and effort and just annihilating it repeatedly.

[inner finch]

So far, LE has been 100% designed around using all linear systems to reach pretty deep into the monolith endgame. You can do crazy numbers with nothing but guaranteed slams

[keen rock]

I mean for the love of god, ARPGs already completely shifted to a seasonal model where EVERYTHING resets every few months. There's your fail safe.

[glass pendant]

Yeah I gotta say I agree with all your takes but I have 0 ideas on how to make the legendary crafting more deterministic

[keen rock]

I do not mean this to sound elitist, but sure, for noobs.

😛

The 1LP, sub 1000CR game is cool and fun but really feels like a tutorial.

[inner finch]

If your whole point is that you are mad about only reaching 1000 corruption and not 2000, your point is wholly invalid

[keen rock]

for the real game which is 1000+ and 2+LP

[simple bison]

I mean not really. you can do ubby and 2k+ corruption with 1lp. If that's "noob" content I don't know what isn't. Going to 10k corruption is just a timesink basically.

[inner finch]

Royally invalid, even

[keen rock]

Well fortunately that's not my point and I have no idea what you are even saying.

[glass pendant]

Personally I like pushing, and I'd prefer a safety cushion on endgame crafting that doesn't completely destroy a maxrolled high lp unique and a high value purple

[tulip niche]

Do you think you should be able to craft all items perfectly first try? Should you be able to Havoc your desired stats first try without the risk of losing all your FP? Should you be able to seal a T5 affix without any chance of failure? Where do you draw the line?

[inner finch]

Im saying that complaining about a system not being more forgiving towards it players by not letting them trivialize the 0.1% endgame has problematic merits

[keen rock]

What I am saying is very simple:

***Output RNG should never be used for anything where the consequence is permanent and significantly catastrophic.

Significantly catastrophic defined as the annihilation of significant chunks of time/effort.***

[simple bison]

Here's the thing. The game simply isn't developed for 10k corruption or anything in that realm currently. You've simply just gone too far for the games current state

[tulip niche]

It’s not significantly catastrophic though

[simple bison]

maybe in a few years they'll have enough systems and things to fill up the void of what is currently just endlessly grinding for a 0.00000001% high lp item

[inner finch]

You want better chances? slam higher LP items, cry for a second when the exact specific 3 stats you wanted arent in, and keep farming

[night marten]

So you dont like vaal orbs?

[keen rock]

Yes it is. Losing 5, 10, 20, 50, 100+ hours of effort in a single click and a dice roll is brutal.

[simple bison]

You've simply gone too far lol

[inner finch]

Each and everyone of us is missing your point and all slams should be 100% guaranteed, i get it

[keen rock]

No I haven't. I'm just playing the game.

Too far has nothing at all to do with the point.

Output RNG should never be used for anything where the consequence is permanent and significantly catastrophic.

Significantly catastrophic defined as the annihilation of significant chunks of time/effort.

[tulip niche]

So you think there should be absolutely no RNG in the game what so ever?

[glass pendant]

It's not just about how hard someone's pushed. Like noobzor said in a suggestion post, the fact that I pick up a gigantic 3lp and farm for a week for a good purple only to roll yet another 33% is simply brutal

[tulip niche]

For fear of “losing progress”, which you’re not even doing.

[inner finch]

0.1% endgame item polish is brutal indeed, but brutal is the design choice for now

[keen rock]

Let me try to make it very simple:

*Your character is level 20.

You earn 1 million xp to gain level 21.

As you earn that last XP, a dice roll is made. You fail. You go back to 0 XP and stay level 20.

Good system?*

[tulip niche]

Don’t insult me because I am trying to understand your issues. It sounds like you want crafting to have basically no RNG for fear of losing time.

[tulip niche]

That isn’t the same thing.

[simple bison]

Here's the thing. The game currently has enough content for maybe two weeks of sweaty gaming. You guys are trying to squeeze water from a stone by grinding for a week for a single item that might be an upgrade.

[glass pendant]

I agree with the idea that was proposed of giving up something equally rare to guarantee something

[simple bison]

If LP was easier to hit you'd have all 2-3lp perfectly slammed gear in 2 weeks or so

[keen rock]

There's no reason to waste people's time via RNG if they love the game enough to play longer.

[tulip niche]

It’s not. Losing EXP is progression lost, not rolling an item exactly how you wanted isn’t.

[glass pendant]

People have been grinding d2 for 30 years for content that doesn't even exist. It's no news that arpg players like chasing pointless numbers.

[keen rock]

Not necessarily. You can design anything you want.

You could make it cost 10 havoc runes to reset the item back to unslammed. There are COUNTLESS things you could do that take effort without destroying time.

[tulip niche]

No, it’s not.

[simple bison]

That's so insanely cheap it's an insult lol

just kill ubby a few times

[keen rock]

*Your Power level was X.

You did Y hours of effort to reach X+1.

You clicked the button to go to X+1.

The game rolls a dice and sets you back to X.*

[tulip niche]

Again, don’t insult me just because I disagree with your views.

[glass pendant]

Even if it was 100 or 200 havocs I'd take it

[simple bison]

Yeah that's more reasonable

[glass pendant]

Put on a price tag for non gamba and I'm game

[simple bison]

I mean I'd be fine with that personally

But it's just a bandaid still. I'd rather get a redesign of the system, but I don't know what I'd want it to look like

[glass pendant]

I just don't want hard limits on lp rolls on uniques

let people chase rare items

[tulip niche]

Like fusing in PoE, you can guarantee a 6L for well above average cost.

[simple bison]

Okay but then what do you do when those same people are in here complaining that they can't hit it after an arbitrary amount of hours

[keen rock]

The point is: progression is fun. Making steady, measurable progress is fun.

Some RNG is fine.

Input RNG is usually superior to Output RNG, but both are fine when done well.

But RNG that instantly deletes 5, 10, 50+ hours of your time is very, very bad game design.

[tulip niche]

Do you usually block people who don’t agree with you? 😂

[keen rock]

If this game wasn't so good, I wouldn't even care enough to come here and argue about it.

I truly believe it is tragic what a downer it is when it is so easily fixable.

[simple bison]

Okay here's the scenario. Let's say item A takes around X hours to get a 3lp slam with all the affixes of the right tiers you want on average currently. Would you guys be okay with it if they just make it so all LP slams are guaranteed but the time it takes to drop the same item at 3lp was 1.5X? or even 2X

[glass pendant]

I've been thinking about what a good design would be for a better eternity cache system but so far I'm drawing blanks. But honestly no matter what I came up with it'd be a worse idea than the result of the collective brainstorming of the team responsible for itemization and perhaps balance too

[tulip niche]

I agree with your first 3 points.

[tulip niche]

Considering some items are already really hard to get 3LP probably not.

[keen rock]

Yes.

However I don't thikn you have to go so far as to make them all guaranteed.

[glass pendant]

I'm gonna go with yes. Endgame farming strategies and clear speed are pretty optimized nowdays, and chasing multiple items on your build will most likely result in not only a better system but also a more satisfying gear progression overall

[keen rock]

Some RNG is fine.

Recoverable/repairable RNG is fine.

But catastrophic, fully destructive RNG that nukes massive amounts of your time/effort are bad.

[simple bison]

So you guys are willing to spend more time for the same outcome? I just don't agree with that

[glass pendant]

I've been asking for challenging content that adds FP back to purples for a while now

[keen rock]

No, that's not what I am saying either.

[inner finch]

Maybe, maybe a middle ground could be a chance enhancing system

[keen rock]

It should be equivalent.

[inner finch]

but idk further than that

[tulip niche]

potentially more time.

[glass pendant]

I simply hate outlier cases that occur in small samples. I will not hit every single 2lp in the expected bracket and the moment I fail to roll a 33% 10 times in a row, I'm done

[keen rock]

The problem is a system where in a single click, that you have no influence over, you can watch days or weeks of your life disappear.

[glass pendant]

33% is 1/3. If you make 2lps 3x rarer I'm chilling

[keen rock]

You're my soul brother.

[tulip niche]

This does suck for sure.

[keen rock]

imagine for a 2 LP slam, you could place a 2nd 2LP version of the item just as 'food' to let you pick a 2nd guaranteed stat for example. Something like that would also be better.

Or if you fail, there's an echo you can take your crappy 2LP Legendary and a bare 2LP unique, combine them, and it 'cleans' your failed one.

So many possibilities.

[tulip niche]

For every person who has bad luck though there is someone else having the best RNG they ever had.

[simple bison]

Here's the deal. If this was divination cards or xp or something more incremental I'd understand your viewpoint. But what you guys just agreed on (Let's say it was literally the same amount of time) is that you'd rather see 0 of the item until it was guaranteed, instead of seeing it several times in the same amount of grind but only having a % chance of success. At the end of the day you put in X time and get item A out, The average time put in and the result are identical, but you'd prefer one over the other just because of the perception of it. So basically you're saying don't change anything but present it to me differently

[glass pendant]

That won't prevent the first person from quitting

[burnt valley]

What if they added a checkpoint to farm a currency that guarantees ur 2nd affix slam at 500 corruption, one for the third at 1k and so on, just to set a goal. Leave 4 lp open for the endless chase

[keen rock]

You're creating a false narrative because your system is not what I would choose or design.

[simple bison]

I proposed a system and you said yes I'd prefer it

[keen rock]

I'd prefer having by finger cut off to my hand cut off, but I don't want either one.

[simple bison]

Yes but you prefer X over X is my point

they're the same

[keen rock]

Yes but then you are digging deeper and ascribing motivations to us based on YOUR example that we didn't even create or want.

[simple bison]

What system would you want

[glass pendant]

I wouldn't look at it as linearly. Think of it this way. We have an imprint system that's backed by turtle and gauntlet. When I progress into that maxrolled 2 and 3lp, all I'm gonna need is one. In the endgame I'm gonna discard the countless trash 2lps that I end up finding, especially those with flat crit rolls, all res and +skills. All I need is one. If that one item is 3x rarer, it's still better progression wise to work towards it via gathering multiple imprints and going through the nemesis turtle gauntlet loop to perfect them, so when that one godly 2-3lp drops, you can move on to the next piece

[keen rock]

It's like:

*Question 1: "Do you want your finger cut off or a toe cut off?"

Answer: "Um..... toe"

Question 2: "Tell me why you want your toe cut off?

Answer: "What? I don't. But those are the only 2 options you gave me."*

[simple bison]

Sure but the issue is if that 3lp item even has close to a reasonable drop chance it'll easily be done in a week or two

like we're talking it needs to be way rarer, not 3x

especially in mg

[glass pendant]

That's why I think tripling the rarity and guaranteeing the slam is in the end balanced

[keen rock]

Also, at least in this system you can actually get excited about it when you find a good one.

I get a really good 2 or 3 LP drop....... I'm not even excited. I just think "wow, its gonna be a real bummer when the slam fails and I vendor this"

[inner finch]

The problem isnt so much finding 3LP items, I think the main complaint here is about engineering the perfect exalt

[simple bison]

it's not

[glass pendant]

Yeah mg will have to be handled differently

[simple bison]

it's nowhere near balanced

it would need to be like 10x rarer

[keen rock]

The current system ruins the excitement of even FINDING stuff in the first place, b/c you dread the inevitable failed slam

[simple bison]

Like I totally agree the current LP system doesn't feel very good and could for sure be improved on

But I don't know how

Just saying eliminate rng here isn't an answer

[glass pendant]

You said guarantee the slam but take 1.5x the expected time of an average slam chance which pushes the time to 1 in 3 items times 1.5 which is 1/4.5 items

[keen rock]

First of all, even if the slam was guaranteed right now, you haven't eliminated RNG.

There are 6+ layers of RNG already before you even walk into the Temporal Sanctum.

[simple bison]

Yes average time to achieve is not the same as simply multiplying the chance to slam with the rarity and calling it a day, because there are other systems at play

prophecies, imprints, woven echoes, mg

Untrue

[glass pendant]

I don't know how balanced the exact number to multiply the rarity is, but it certainly needs to work differently for mg like the current drop chances for them do

[simple bison]

But what is the better system

that's not an answer though

lol

I'm trying to have us come to a system everyone is happy with and have it be suggested

[glass pendant]

Are you fundamentally against making higher lp items simply rarer just to remove the gamba from the equation? Because the alternative would be what noobzor suggested. Sacrifice something rare

Honestly I like dropping 200 havocs better personally

[simple bison]

Honestly yeah I am, I think that's just boring

same with paying a shitton of havocs

[glass pendant]

Imo there's enough gambling that goes into imprint procs, perfecting purple rolls, perfecting unique rolls

[simple bison]

I'd rather it be something like if you beat this insane boss you get one guaranteed slam or something

[glass pendant]

That's already a lot idk

[simple bison]

and the grind to get to kill the boss is long

if that makes sense

[glass pendant]

That was my original suggestions. Make god crafting stations locked behind content

Guaranteed slams, add fp back to purples etc

[simple bison]

Yeah this I can totally agree with for sure

similar to syndicate crafting benches kinda

(I know it's not the same but you get the gist)

[keen rock]

Example system:

Change the Rune of Redemption drop rate so its ~the same as Havoc currently.

X Redemption Runes = at the Temporal forge, you get to choose 2 guaranteed affixes also.
Y Redemption Runes = at the Temporal forge, you get to choose 3 guaranteed affixes also.

Done.

[simple bison]

Yeah I think that'd be way worse than the current system tbh. But that's just my opinion, which isn't any more valuable or valid than anyone elses

[keen rock]

X = 10? 20? Whatever. That can be tweaked.

Y = 50? 100? Again, tweaked until reasonable.

[keen rock]

No, it is vastly superior. The RNG is granular and progression oriented. You get to watch your amount of Runes go up and when you have X or Y you know you have more control over the slam.

That's INPUT RNG.

The RNG happens in advance, and you can make strategic decisions based upon the RNG results.

[simple bison]

That's not input rng

there's no rng to a static cost

[keen rock]

Input RNG is almost always superior to Output RNG.

It is psychologically proven that Input RNG does not cause the same anxiety and frustration than Output RNG does.

[keen rock]

Yes there is. The drop rate of finding them was RNG.

[simple bison]

The dropping of items is output rng

[keen rock]

I absolutely guarantee you players would dramatically prefer that system.

[simple bison]

input rng is forging potential cost

[wanton meadow]

servers just go down?

[simple bison]

output rng is the roll of the affix once you've forged it

[native shuttle]

does anyone know why my game keeps resizing to 2560 x 1440 whenever i open it, switch characters, et cetera? i always change it to 1920x1080 and it always resizes on reopening or swapping character/disconnect/et cetera

[keen rock]

And you just proved my point earlier that you were not asking me for a system in good faith.

You were asking just to nitpick it.

Even X runes to reset an item would be better than what we have now.

Because at least everything you did isn't utterly destroyed in a moment.

• Try your slam.

• Fail.

• Reset it with X Runes of WHATEVER.

• Go through 6 layers of RNG to create your fodder slam item again.

• Try again. Repeat until satisfied.

More fun. Less miserable.

there are so many ways to skin this cat that are better than:

• Spend 10, 20, 50, 100+ hours grinding through 6 layers of RNG.

• Press button.

• Literally all of it is 100% absolutely deleted. If you had not played the game at all, you'd be exactly in the same spot.

[simple bison]

I wouldn't disagree with this but I'd also not want to see this added. I'd rather not have bandaid/"temporary" fixes that are then deemed good enough and left permanently, which happens all the time. Instead I'd rather come to a good, robust solution that won't need much changing in the future

Paying a flat fee to undo/guarantee a slam is very boring (imo) and would be something I'd expect as a temporary bandaid

[keen rock]

I dunno dude. that's plenty robust and solves the problem

[keen rock]

This sounds like a fancy way of leaving things alone while the world burns

[simple bison]

Pretty much sadly

[keen rock]

Never let perfect be the enemy of good.

[simple bison]

Yeah but I'd rather wait for good than have mediocre immediately but forever

I'm not saying either is true

[keen rock]

Yeah but both of those systems I described were absolute brilliant gold that would be fun as hell.

[simple bison]

Maybe they could add a flat fee and then change it in the future, I just don't see it happening

My stance is that I'd rather just wait for a season where the LP system is a central feature where they either add more on top of it in the form of harder content you can do for a higher chance / guaranteed slam or being able to undo slams or whatever. Or where they just completely rework it from the ground up. Because I do think one of those would happen eventually if the playerbase agree on the current system being lacking.

[keen rock]

Here's the long term reasons why the status quo is more ruinous than people might imagine:

• It destroys the fun of finding drops at all, because every drop starts to represent new miserable suffering, not excitement.

• It has a chilling effect of people playing future seasons. "I have to go through than RNG hell again? No thanks."

The long term effects of this RNG system are even worse than the short term effects.

When the RNG gets this bad, it also ruins the excitement of success.

Instead of "YAY!" it's "THANK GOD IT DIDNT FAIL AGAIN."

At that point, you've destroyed your own FUN condition also.

[simple bison]

Thing is wouldn't a flat fee to undo a slam do the same thing, like you just undid a slam. And then it missed again. Isn't it "omfg I have to grind another 200 runes? no thanks"

A flat fee to guarantee the slam would be the only thing that wouldn't have that issue

but it would need to be so insanely expensive that it would have a similar effect still I feel

Like you get your unique and you're still only like 1/4'th of the way to having the runes and you're like wtf

I feel like I personally would be like "I got the unique and I know if I put in x hours I'll guaranteed get the slam, might as well just quit now and not waste my time". But I know some people would really wanna see the item complete

[keen rock]

Once again, I'm going to say that it's uncool to nitpick details when this is just a very ROUGHLY presented Discord idea.

If I was making the real solution, of course I'd hammer out tons of details. So nitpicking it is just wildly inappropriate.

But no, that wouldn't be the same. Because you KNOW you can grind X runes again. It is granular and while it is RNG, it is relatively consistent over a decent amount of time.

You might never get another 3 LP drop of some items. The RNG might be so massive, and you don't get to see steady progress like you do with needing X runes.

[simple bison]

I'm not nitpicking. I'm trying to come to a reasonable and realistic suggestion

[keen rock]

If you could spend X runes to reset, or Y runes to guarantee a result, you get steady, consistent progress towards your goal. It is not all or nothing.

[keen rock]

That's pointless though. We aren't the devs.

Devs do not want detailed suggestions.

[simple bison]

Why even complain then

if you don't want them to listen

[keen rock]

That's not how you do it.

Developers do not want fully fleshed out, fully realized design suggestions

[glass pendant]

The part I do agree on here is that removing legendary affixes would also make for a very cool crafting station but only in the context of a guaranteed slam not being a mechanic to begin with. The only way I'd see both existing would be make one infinitely more accessible than the other (bossing comes to mind, maybe normal vs Uber version or a boss)

[simple bison]

They don't want detailed suggestions you're right. But saying let us have a flat fee to undo a slam isn't detailed, it's pretty vague. But is it a reasonable suggestion that could have an interpretation that would actually happen?

Is there actually a reasonable flat fee (that scales with rarity or whatever) to be paid for this effect?

I feel like there isn't

[keen rock]

The job of the player is:

• Tell the devs what is fun and what is not fun.

• Make rough, generalized suggestions what would be better.

• Let the devs sort the details.

[keen rock]

1. You keep harping on the details of something that isn't even my suggestion.

2. Of course there's a reasonable 'cost'. Just like there is for EVERYTHING in the game.

[glass pendant]

The biggest roadblock I see for a change is the impacts on mg. This is a very cof oriented change

It would have to be handled differently

[simple bison]

yeah

[keen rock]

I only play MG so its really pretty much the same situation.

Improving this would be good for MG as well, b/c it would be deflationary, and would make MTX less attractive.

[glass pendant]

This season mg was absolutely bonkers while it was alive. They actually managed to fight botting and prices didn't hit gold cap

[keen rock]

In fact, the current system is a massive boon to the gold sellers.

The probably love it.

[glass pendant]

On the other hand you had 2lp shattered worlds going for 2 digit millions

So boosting those odds would be massive for my

Mg*

[keen rock]

exactly

I guarantee you the gold sellers are begging them not to fix this

not literally ;P

[glass pendant]

As much as I don't wanna admit it, mg showed for the first time how crazy it can be in a healthy market

S2 was not a good example

S3 was on another level

[keen rock]

Part of the reason I play MG is it takes some of the RNG out of things.

I can grind gold which is a steadily growing, somewhat predictable resource, and then spend it on what I actually want.

plus, after 30+ years of playing online RPGs I'm good at making money off markets, so I'm used to it.

[keen rock]

really enjoyed this discussion. if at any point I came across as an ahole, my apologies. My wife says in written communication I "talk like a lawyer" (which is fair, because ~30+ years ago I was one before I became a professional game developer)

[simple bison]

No worries I did too. And you didn't ^^

[keen rock]

Thank you. You are very kind to cut me some slack. 😛

[simple bison]

I've played league for 13 years if that says anything. There was no slack that needed to be cut ;P

[keen rock]

I feel you. wife and I played starting in beta, she STILL plays (ARAM only).

Both of our daughters were captain of their college LoL teams

[simple bison]

Honestly feel like it's a good way to build a strong mental over time if you handle it correctly

[keen rock]

Our younger daughter was MVP of her entire college league last year, her freshman year

She played for a national title last year, made it to finals. but, speaking of bad LoL mental.... between semis and finals, their top laner quit the team because he had a few bad weeks of practice

so they had to take a sub to finals...... from the Overwatch team

[simple bison]

rip lol

[keen rock]

indeed! hahah. poor kid did his best, but he got flame horizoned every game

[keen rock]

perhaps ironically... my only other complaint about LE is not enough cosmetics to buy

[simple bison]

Yeah they only started releasing them in 1.0 so only a bit over a year now

But I feel like they've been releasing more and better mtx each season

[keen rock]

agree

I have all the full supporter packs and about half of everything else 😛

some of my twitch drops aren't working which is a bummer. I sent a ticket in and hope they can fix it

even when I wasnt playing I always made sure to tune in for the drops

[simple bison]

Yeah some people have had success contacting twitch support regarding drops not working iirc

[keen rock]

I think there were 3 major drop campaigns. weirdly, #1 and #3 all work, but not my #2

[keen rock]

oh I put in a ticket with LE. Twitch has 1 part time intern handling all their support. lol.

And I figure EHG has to fix it anyway ultimately

[simple bison]

It's harder to get help with it after the fact though unfortunately, but I bid you good luck

Atleast from twitch, I'm not sure about ehg support

[keen rock]

yeah twitch is useless

that whole company is falling apart

[glass pendant]

I love how the most constructive suggestion so far to solve itemization is "more content so we can lock powerful mechanics behind it"

[simple bison]

I mean honestly I think that'd be the dream

More content = good lol

but yeah it might be disneyland

All we can do is wait and see while voicing our feelings and opinions

[keen rock]

harder pinnacle bosses is a totally acceptable way to handle power creep

[glass pendant]

just more bosses in general

[keen rock]

it allows the rest of the game that people already enjoy, and some people actually find hard, (or people who enjoy weird builds) to keep playing

[glass pendant]

The one thing LE lacks imo is monster density so blasting isn't as satisfying as in other titles yet

[simple bison]

Imo there's a ton of empty space between normal and uber abby that can be filled with content. I don't think I'd want them to just keep making harder and harder content when there's so much empty space to fill for the average player

[glass pendant]

Bossing could alleviate that

I definitely wouldn't mind content exactly as hard as Uber aberroth still

But I agree

[keen rock]

they could easily build more options for that into the web. they already have little tiny bits and pieces of it

[simple bison]

Yeah It's been slowly improving though, like compared to 0.9 the new side areas have way more density

Seems like they're increasing it incrementally as they make performance improvements

[glass pendant]

I've suggested before that we need more map juicing options. I want to have more tools to manipulate my maps. For example something I mentioned before was that if each map (woven map maybe) had 3 caches baseline (traited perhaps), it would move people away from troves

[keen rock]

I actually think the difficulty overall of the game is extremely well done.

The core game is easy.

Then you can climb CR as far as is comfortable for you/your build.

But the soft cap of 1,000 CR gives you a really good goal to shoot for if you just want to be 'optimal', and then you can either stop there, or if you WANT a harder game, keep going.

Throw in 1 new zone and 1 or 2 new bosses every season and I think its nearly perfect.

[glass pendant]

Those side areas don't have end echo rewards 😞 (another mistake imo)

[keen rock]

That's a great way to extend content and let people dial up their own comfortable challenge level, in ways they enjoy

[glass pendant]

Two big mapping mistakes I personally see is, no echo rewards for cemeteries and no rift beasts in woven echoes

I'd like to see both

[glass pendant]

It would be great to see methods for the player to add things in a map. Something I see working would be allowing players to place detached woven echoes, and then to improve upon that, introduce more AoE echoes like beacons that can overlap (PoE sextants if those even exist anymore

[simple bison]

I think they want to avoid having to "prep" your echoes, Imo all these things could just be part of the weaver tree but locked behind content or something

[glass pendant]

Yeah the method is debatable

[keen rock]

Hades is amazing at this. You have like 20-30+ tweakable options to make runs harder in different ways.

[glass pendant]

But to be honest they should ease up on that since people love placing woven echo setups down currently

One of the best parts of 1.2 onwards

[keen rock]

yeah they could easily do it via the weaver tree. they sorta do that a little already

[glass pendant]

I doubt I've seen too many cases of giving the player agency and the player not having more fun

[keen rock]

there could just be a second tree that you dont earn points for, that just had options for tweaking difficulty

[simple bison]

Yeah rn the weaver tree mostly affects what type of echoes you see, and what items/resources you drop. But not as much the enemies themselves

[keen rock]

or hell, give the VK a tree for difficult

sorry FK

the whole FK stuff is so cool and then its just over

[glass pendant]

There are some pretty strong points there, like guaranteed nemesis in cemeteries, 24% nemesis overall buff that brings it to near 100% at high corruption, all the runes nodes, the amber nodes, the rift beast nodes

Some stuff in there is strong

Then there's other stuff like champions drop 8% more woven echoes which is like eh

[main frigate]

it seems I miss a long discussion here. Which topic have I missed?

[keen rock]

wow. I just got a dual T7 ring, with an open prefix and a T1 suffix. lemme slap that down into my web

[main frigate]

Oh... The topic start from here

[untold heath]

how can I contact the devs with something that can't be solved with F8 ingame? I have several screenshots about it

[main frigate]

Dm @grand geyser

[untold heath]

thanks

[primal abyss]

Hello and good morning.

[glass pendant]

Hey hey Van

[south moat]

Hey there Van

[main frigate]

20:45 here but I don't eat dinner yet

[primal abyss]

Food is very important!

[keen rock]

Morning! I just used that @grand geyser thing and included info from a website/email ticket. I hope I didn't overdo it (2/3rds of my twitch drop cosmetics work, but 1/3 of them dont)

[primal abyss]

No worries. If you submitted a ticket to the team, they should be able to get you squared away~

[keen rock]

awesome. thanks :). I was a little hesitant about the modmail thing, but what if that's the better person for this issue? so I did both. but speaking from experience, sometimes getting the same report multiple ways can be annoying :/

[main frigate]

Yes too sad because of nostalgia when dinner time so I missed that. Going to eat McDonald's now.

[primal abyss]

Aaah. McDonald's...the memories

[keen rock]

you mean from when it used to be cheap? 😛

[primal abyss]

When I had my "go-to" combo in the early days of college. Yes, that too!

[keen rock]

what was your goto?

[simple bison]

Subway was my go-to during highschool. Half a sub loaded with everything for around 3.5 dollars

Either that or chicken burgers from mcdonalds for a dollar each

now they're way more expensive

[main frigate]

I'm on the faction of salt is the only choice for fries. No ketchup.

[primal abyss]

My McDonald's go-to was 1 Big Mac and 2 Apple pies. The OG style that was so good it could burn the roof of your mouth.

We had a subway close to our campus too. I was in love with the 5 dollar footlongs.. Chicken Teriyaki or Meatball sub usually

[simple bison]

I used to love their pies

Haven't had one in ages

[keen rock]

they used to be fried and they were insanely good. now they are baked and they are ok. but its not the same

[keen rock]

$5 footlongs for eons. now its like $12ish

[simple bison]

Now it's almost 5 bucks for half a sub here that's the sub of the day too not just any sub lol

that's the deal that used to be less than 3.5 dollars

[untold heath]

Okay, DM to ModMail sent

[keen rock]

well I'm silly. I was sitting here thinking "why is my smoke bomb triggering my shift cooldown". duh, I took the node to make smoke bomb a traversal skill 😛

[untold heath]

not sure if that was the right direction to throw my info....

[primal abyss]

I've done that a few times. "How come my swipe has a cooldown now?"

"How come I can only have ONE COMPANION?"

[keen rock]

I sent a $25 Amazon Gift Card code along with my DM, Just to juice it a little........

(j/k)

[primal abyss]

Either way, submitting a ticket and modmail isn't too much of an issue. Happy you submitted it!

[keen rock]

rip!

[untold heath]

I have better directions to throw 25€ to...

[primal abyss]

Like food

[keen rock]

I dont. I own every supporter pack and almost every cosmetic.

I'm trying to fund the next season...

[glass pendant]

I know my what my next ticket is going to say

[keen rock]

https://tenor.com/view/shut-up-and-take-my-money-money-futurama-gif-6882124657810317443

[untold heath]

it's just a minor naming "issue" about a evolution that suddenly changed its name

[primal abyss]

oh not, what have we done