⭕┃circle-of-fortune

[hazy elm]

you are talking abt level ladder, nobody cares abt that after 2 days into season

[silent skiff]

in the context of Lost Epoch, whats the difference between ladder and leaderboards? i assumed they meant the same thing

[livid spruce]

Nothing, they are all just called ladders in LE afaik

[sleek iron]

leaderboard is more of the actual textbook name of the feature, whereas ladder is a popular term coined for it

rankings, while synonymous, is another popular one

[silent skiff]

yes i am aware of what a ladder/leaderboard/ranking is 😆

i was asking because in LE people seemed to imply that there was a distinct difference in regards to what they refer to in this game

[hazy elm]

no i was implying that there is ARENA lb and LEVEL lb, two completely different things

you were talking abt level lb which frankly barely anyone cares for, and for people that are 2 months in the cycle is irrelivant

[sleek iron]

honestly id say the moment a top 10 is decided nobody cares about it anymore

arena on the other hand is a bit of a conundrum

because its certainly indicative of your strength, but on the other hand its also mostly about endurance

im sure there could be builds doing better than some of the top, but they would take hella longer to surpass the records

[livid spruce]

Yeah, arena needs a dramatic improvement/rework for me to care about it at all

Some people do care about it already though, so at least it's something

[outer nacelle]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npJ_TEOgua0

doesn't even go into arena, but makes valid points and everyone in the comments agrees

[limber minnow]

Arena is for nerds

[stark compass]

3 sec how?

[modern iris]

you can kill him in 1 sec actually 😄 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vwESLLc7yQ

[wraith hazel]

Find it kinda funny how much hate HH builds got last season (they were insane, no question, tho still not half of the top corr) while this seasons outliers seem to be "normal" and no one complains.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not affected by people oneshotting Abby. I learned to enjoy my 45sec to 3 min fights there. Just wonder why HH builds were so hated by some, while mana-stackers and co are ok ^^

[livid spruce]

They aren't okay, they are definitely going to get gutted in 1.2

but I think people are less annoyed by its existence because it takes investment to do and doesn't give functional invulnerability

[prisma vector]

what are HH?

[sleek iron]

healing hands

from sentinels/paladins

[outer nacelle]

what do you mean by hate though? let's take 2 broken builds from 1.0 cycle that were 'allowed' to exist for the whole cycle - HH pally and MM Jelkhors. both giga broken, but one defensively and one offensively. i dont think they got any hate? everyone jumped on them because they were OP. both eventually got fix/nerfed into oblivion with 1.1 for obvious reasons.

[twilit jetty]

I'm getting random void-looking attacks that kill me when I'm farming favor, is this an intended update? They're coming from something invisible

[wraith hazel]

I think HH was bashed far more then any other 1.0 outlier, but I was playing it, so I see it can just be my recognition. 🤷‍♂️

[sleek iron]

its either a bomb or a spire attack

[frosty pelican]

Has anyone ever gotten a double unique drop from exiled mage? Pretty sure Rank 10 still doesn't work for that but it's hard to confirm with certainty

[modern iris]

as you said it is idd hard to confirm. but i never got double or tripple unique drops from them

[sleek iron]

I did get dpuble

Iirc I got an exsang once along with a trash anulet

[modern iris]

we were talking bout r10 cof it is about specific boss reward. exsang is common drop

[rare ivy]

in the past of 1.0 I was able to join CoF on alts without beating campaign if my main character beated campaign during cycle

but now I cannot on legacy with same characters, lol...is this intended or what am I missing?

I guess I gotta beat the campaign on legacy as if it's "again."

[sleek iron]

i dont think you have to though ?

did you switch to MG at some point or something ?

[livid spruce]

The trigger isn't beating campaign, just choosing a faction in act 9. I have heard it is bugged to where it resets this each cycle in Legacy, not sure if there is an easy fix. Have you tried going to the bazaar/observatory on another legacy char?

[rare ivy]

I have, it didn't do anything...

[livid spruce]

Dang, then probably the easiest fix is to get a new character teleported to the point where they can pick faction, but that requires help from another person. Without that, just gotta get to act 9 somehow.

[unreal hollow]

I loath this. They leave OP builds (not to mention exploits) up for long time (a whole cycle sometimes), then "gut" them. This horrible approach leads to a constant shifting of meta and permanent lack of build balance. Instead of this, I would strongly prefer frequent (even weekly or - god forgive - daily), but gentle balance changes, that immediately weaken the OP stuff and if the nerf was not justified or it was not enough, it can be reconsidered next week/day accordingly.

[left gale]

Bad idea to mess with peoples builds while they are still playing those characters. Imagine investing days of game time into a character only for it to get nerfed mid cycle. All that time, wasted.

If something is truly broken and an exploit, fine. But something is scaling really really well? Leave it be at least until a refresh.

[noble wedge]

they shouldve never done mid cycle nerfs to anything imo

if a build is op, so be it for the cycle

balance for the next

[unreal hollow]

I do invest days of game time, a lot more than the majority of players I think... And I am talking about small nerfs, like reducing the performance with 5-10%, and do it again if needed. If you do balance changes every 3-6 months only, it is not possible, you have to go heavy handed, and the result is usually "gutting the builds" that are deemed OP, often rendering them unusable. To add insult to injury, for 3 months (or whatever the balancing cycle is), they are there to accumulate resources, damaging balance for the future as well.
The goal should be to not have a couple of builds/masteries/skill interactions/items that perform much-much better than the rest of the viable ones. For example if a build can farm 1000 corruption, another 1200, and the rest can do 600 or less, the 2 outliers should be nerfed asap.
This is my opinion though, probably I am in the minority with this, as most game developers shift the meta instead of striving for balance, my problem I guess... 😦

[livid spruce]

Super powerful unintended things should be nerfed immediately, but daily balance changes is way too much imo

[unreal hollow]

Well, I don't think it is feasible either

[unreal hollow]

But for starters, bi-weekly would be nice, and also, monitoring the performance of the builds, skills etc., not sure how much they do that

[livid spruce]

and yes, striving for balance is not really done in this genre largely intentionally - that's something that's super important for PvP games, but doesn't work out the same here

[unreal hollow]

sadly, this is my favorite genre (probably over 20k hours of my life wasted in d3 and poe together), and I'd like to have an ecosystem I consider at least remotely fair and steady (still have not found any). Regularly switching the few select meta builds/combinations is almost the opposite of that

[distant leaf]

What is "unusable", to you? None of the busted builds from 1.0 are unusable in 1.1. Most are not meta or s-tier, but they're all still good.

So your central premise seems flawed. This is not how it has played out in LE so far

[azure ice]

All bugged builds are fixed which make it look like it’s a nerf, but it’s truly a bug fix

[unreal hollow]

Honestly, I have no idea how good the "bugged" builds are/were, as I haven't played them, don't even know which they were, I was just reacting to Father Toast saying that certain builds will be "gutted" in 1.2. Imo after the balance changes, the op builds should be s-tier, or at least strong a-tier (like all, reasonable builds). I tried healing hands and divine bolts, and I could not make them work, while it was promising initially, I could not make an a- or s-tier build centered around them. And I heard they were bugged/s++-tier for 1.0 (HH for sure). This of course might be my shortcoming, but even after a good bit of searching, I could not find a good (=s-tier) HH or divine bolt build for 1.1.
I recently started playing mana stacking sorcerer, which I consider s-tier. Not sure if any variation of it is considered bugged and if so, why. I play a variation with static orb and frost claw. Does it deserve a nerf? Probably. However, not so big one that it gets pushed down to a-tier or below. And I would not mind if a nerf came soon, that reduced its power a little while still keeping it s-tier. If it gets a nerf in 1.2 that puts it to b-tier or below, I'll be disappointed.

[unreal hollow]

For example now static orb has quadratic scaling with mana. If EHG takes that away it will be a very drastic change, and will probably remove one specific use of the skill (quick boss killing). On the other hand, if they reduce the mana cost of the manacharged node, but simultaneously improve overcharged detonation, they reduce the damage while keeping the quadratic scaling, and might even introduce other uses of the skill, for example killing rares or even as a generic use skill (currently it is unsustainable for regular use - though initially I did use it with less points in manacharged, but I did not extensively test it).

[distant leaf]

Yeah, I hope they do it in a smart way. They tend to. I think HH is an odd case because it was actually just heavily bugged. But static orb and some others are absolutely ludicrous. No build should be killing peak bosses in 1 second.

[unreal hollow]

Agreed. However, on the other hand I was quite unhappy when they added ward to bosses (in 1.1?), and I was suddenly unable to kill T4 Julra (I could consistently do it with my torment warlock before), so I am happy with it atm.

[distant leaf]

I hope they adjust the boss ward thing. It's a pretty big feels bad. The underlying math is solid, but the implementation is not me avorite

[unreal hollow]

imo for a casual player (I consider myself one), which is the majority of the player base, T4 Julra and Aberroth is too hard

and while it can be argued the latter is a pinnacle boss not supposed to be killed by everyone, T4 Julra is needed to enhance items

[distant leaf]

Julra tier locks could work differently, but it's ultimately only a fraction of items that require T4.

[livid spruce]

Honestly probably had a lot more to do with the torment/warlock nerfs. The ward maybe made the fight a couple seconds longer for builds that were unchanged, absolutely not enough to break a build.

[distant leaf]

I think T4 Julra is pretty fair, honestly. I'm not a great player by any means and I don't play OP builds at all and I clear her pretty consistently. You can actually take nearly zero damage from her with pretty basic movements.

[unreal hollow]

somehow I tend to use multiple of those items for most of my builds (and it is rare that I use none), regardless, I don't like this limitation

[unreal hollow]

I still think torment warlock is s-tier (probably my best build other than the sorcerer)

[unreal hollow]

I disagree, the frost cone is a potential 1 hit (I recall taking 4k-ish damage from it), the puddle is lethal in a few seconds, and the rotating beams should not be tanked either, and obviously the explosion is like 20k hit. Probably a skill issue on my part, but I think I am in the middle part of the bell curve skillwise, and with this effort invested in the game, I think a player of my skill level should be able to kill t4 julra with multiple builds (or alternatively, could ignore and not fight it)

[distant leaf]

Yes, but those things are totally dodgeable. My advice, during Julra's damage phases, stand near her and just evade through her when she casts her cones or her lightning circles. Save movement ability for the largest of those or in case something goes wrong. Always fight her in the save zone of the spinning orbs except when she's placing a puddle

Like, yeah, you can get one-shot by the cone if you're not very tanky at all, but it's an easily avoidable attack with only positioning. If you're close to her, you just take one step.

[wraith hazel]

If only you attempt T4 Julra, you are not even close to the middle of a bell curve here. You're more probably top1%.

You writing here underlines that ^^

[unreal hollow]

don't mistake skill and talent with effort and practice 😄

[unreal hollow]

my warlock has like 3.8k ward and 1.8k life, and I don't feel safe there. I did not do much practice and strategising tbh, I just did what I usually do with the rest of the stuff: tried to intuitively avoid things (not the smart, efficient maneuvers you explained)

[distant leaf]

Yeah, if you're dying to cones, stay close. If your dying to the spinny orbs, get used to the circle of safety

[unreal hollow]

I died to puddles or trying to place puddles or switching dimensions to a puddle mostly 🙂

[livid spruce]

Honestly when I feel too pressured with the spinny beams I just swap times

[unreal hollow]

but it felt good to just kill her in seconds with the sorc 😄

after struggling with the other builds, I felt justice was done

[livid spruce]

It's a hard fight, but with practice it gets easier. Still stressful for some builds though.

[unreal hollow]

yea, would be horrible with melee 😄

[wraith hazel]

But you realize something wrong, if you are able to onehit her?

[unreal hollow]

a low damage, squishy melee build

[unreal hollow]

of course I do, as I stated above, it is not right

but I don't think such level of area denial, and multiple swift deaths are right either, so I prefer 1 hitting her

[distant leaf]

Exactly the opposite. It's easier in melee because it forces you to fight her in a good position

Her attacks are easier to dodge in melee range. My advice to you to make the fight easier was to fight her in melee range

[unreal hollow]

but what do you do with the puddle/rotating beams?

sure, the cone is easy to avoid in melee

[wraith hazel]

Switch time, wait for the puddle to lay it far away and continue

[unreal hollow]

so you fight in the area without rotating beams, and place the puddles in the rotating beam time?

[wraith hazel]

I usually like to fight her in whichever time the 3 pillars spawn. Main-melee so I want to have close combat

[distant leaf]

I feee ike you haven't really watched the figt to know how it works

[unreal hollow]

I tended to only switch at catastrophic implosion, and stay until she casts it again (yea, stupid strategy, now I realise)

[distant leaf]

No, it's not bad at all. It's exactly what I do, and it's fine

[wraith hazel]

But as Father Toast said. Whenever things get hectic you can switch time. Wait till she follows and be preped for the field beneath your feed to carry the puddle to the outer ring.

Then start fighting her again

[distant leaf]

So, here's how the fight goes

1. Implosion. Switch time a bit before she does her explosion

2. Puddle attack. Run to the outer edge of the arena until the puddle is placed.

3. Julra attack phase. This phase is the most varied, with her homing ice, lightning explosions, cone of cold, and rotating orbs. This is the phase that requires practice. But if you fight in melee and just walk out of her attacks, it's pretty easy. It can be stressful if you're squishy enough to die in one hit, though. If you're damage is low, you may have to survive this phase 4+ times

4. Repeat above steps

You should never be damaged by puddles, because you switch team nearish the center, and always place the puddles near the edge. You can dodge all of her main attacks. You fight her in the ring of safety from the rotating orbs.

Honestly, this fight got WAY easier with evade.

Many folks try to be fancy and time swap back to avoid her spawning puddles. I think this is totally unnecessary because the puddles are trivial if you place them at the edge and fight her near the center

[unreal hollow]

much appreciated, I'll save this for later use!

I also underuse evade 🙂

[distant leaf]

This is genuinely the fight that got me to finally press the damn button

because I also don't use it because I'm an old man

[unreal hollow]

I used it when I got some item (like the fear gloves or the ring) that overwrites it with some other function

[unreal hollow]

I am not exactly young either 😄

[distant leaf]

So like, yeah, I just stand near her and evade through her (to another spot in the ring of safety) when she does most of her attacks in attack phase

[unreal hollow]

do you by any chance have a "trivialize Aberroth fight for dummies" guide too? 😄

[distant leaf]

I'm playing a disintegrate build. It cannot do abberoth. At least, I haven't managed it.

I'd wager that Aberroth is like...5-10 times harder than T4 Julra

[unreal hollow]

I tried it a couple of times with the warlock, but it seems messy

[distant leaf]

There isn't a simple "take no damage" strategy for Abby. Aside from killing him in 3 seconds

[unreal hollow]

yesterday, I got him down to like 5x%, with static orb, then shaved down another 10-15%, but then got killed by some white waves

[distant leaf]

boo. Yeah, my current build is high health, low regen, low-ish damage. Which is just a terrible combination for Abby, I think

[stark compass]

Do I need op gears for that or is there a build that can do that with decent lp2 gears

[unreal hollow]

decent lp2 is actually OP 😄

[stark compass]

Lp 2 is enough for aberoth I thought it's an ultimate boss that I need to tweak my gear to highest potential to beat it

?

[unreal hollow]

I don't even have uniques for all slots, and with more accurate execution, I feel I will be able to do it

but this is a busted build

[stark compass]

Which build

[unreal hollow]

static orb sorcerer

[distant leaf]

Also, not all LP2s are the same

[unreal hollow]

I played this game a lot, but I have very few lp3 items

[distant leaf]

Good luck getting a well-slammed LP2 unstable core, for example

[stark compass]

I see

[unreal hollow]

and well rolled, too... I still use exalted chest

[distant leaf]

I'm gonna fight T4 Julra soon, want me to record it with my strategy and send you a link?

[unreal hollow]

if it is little effort, but I think your text description is enough, honestly, I only failed because I did not practice much

[unreal hollow]

generally, a well rolled exalted can often be better than a lp1 or lp2 legendary

[distant leaf]

Well, I'm going to be doing the fight anyway

And you need some suffixes, right? You can't just be running around with no suffixes on any gear because you've got LP1s in every slot

[unreal hollow]

I will be cheating that fight until they patch the sorc though 🙂

[distant leaf]

I'm gonna slam my LP2 Unstable Core

[unreal hollow]

good luck 🙂

I only got lp1s so far

and discarded like 4-5 this morning because they had garbage mana roll 🙂

[distant leaf]

I'm not even prioritizing mana on it, lol. I mean. I'd LIKE the mana

[unreal hollow]

now I settled for the exalted chest, and focus on other stuff first (I also use exalted helm, not the one with +crit)

[distant leaf]

but I'm trying to get T7 Spell damage

(while channeling. The added damage one)

[unreal hollow]

is there spell damage there? :S

ah

that's sweet for disintegrate 🙂

I started using the confluence of fate ammy, as it gives a lot of added spell damage, good if you do not scale specific elemental damage

[distant leaf]

finished the fight. Made some mistakes, knew I was being recorded

and it's worth pointing out that my build is hella tanky but has almost no regen at all

[unreal hollow]

by no regen do you mean no kind of recovery (ward, leech) at all?

[distant leaf]

I use mana as health

So the only health regen I have is mana regen through focus. Which is very, very slow health regen compared to leech or ward, generally

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zitp3dp9BVE&feature=youtu.be

[unreal hollow]

I use the node that gives 40% back if I am negative

but I also use ward, getting 700+ ward for a frost claw cast is very powerful

[distant leaf]

Yeah, I don't ever have negative mana since my spells don't really cost mana

Unfortunately, didn't hit my slam 😦

[unreal hollow]

you made it look easy 😄

[distant leaf]

So yeah, near the end I swap for no reason

[unreal hollow]

I mean, standing there and channeling, while I was haphazardly running around with the warlock (still probably doing more damage) 😄

[distant leaf]

I genuinely think that once you learn it, it is pretty easy

[unreal hollow]

it did not look hard when you did it 🙂

[distant leaf]

Yeah, it's a fight where you can genuinely stand still to do your damage and still take none yourself

[unreal hollow]

I always tried to place the puddles in the center

[distant leaf]

oof, yeah, that's tricky

Also, notice how the cone of cold is not threatening if you're close to her?

it's like one step to avoid it

[unreal hollow]

thinking that "the rotating beam is removing that area anyway"

[distant leaf]

But if you're far away from her you are NOT getting away from the cone without a movement ability

[unreal hollow]

but there is plenty of room to place it to the side as you demonstrated

[distant leaf]

There's more space at the edge of the room than the centerr

Also, you don't want to put the puddles somewhere you might be when you swap

[unreal hollow]

yea, I actually stacked the puddles

so more room remains

more room which I never made use of 😄

[distant leaf]

That's tricky! Because you have to take damage from old puddles to place the new ones

and the puddles hurt

[unreal hollow]

yea, very heavily

[distant leaf]

I don't take much damage from puddles because I have a nice Orian's Eye

And I also have effectively 13000 health lol

[unreal hollow]

just by placing the puddles to the side, the fight could be a lot easier

13k? wtf? how?

[distant leaf]

hmm, I guess it's not quite that high, actually

[unreal hollow]

then you could tank anything, except the implosion

[distant leaf]

1.5k health, not including endurance

[unreal hollow]

the best is if you can tank implosion XD

[distant leaf]

Nah, I can tank the imposion with flame ward 😛

But because my regen is low it's a stupid thing to do

I lose everything and can't get it back very easily, and tanking the implosion achieves nothing

[unreal hollow]

yea, and it is very easy to dodge

[distant leaf]

And I have 2100 mana which equates to 10500 health

so yeah, between 12-13k health

[unreal hollow]

how does it equate to 10500 health?

[distant leaf]

damage dealt to mana before health does just as it says, but each point of mana blocks 5 damage

[unreal hollow]

?

really?

[distant leaf]

yep

[unreal hollow]

did not know that, where is it written?

[distant leaf]

alt text

Like, you can get descriptions of any stat by holding alt or ctrl+alt depending on settings

it's also in the game guide

[unreal hollow]

I tried alting in the passive skill node

I try to check an idol if I have one

or piece of armor

[distant leaf]

The only sources are helm, body armour, and that passive. There are no other sources

[unreal hollow]

ah, on the mage relic I can see it

this is interesting though, not sure if I could somehow use it

[distant leaf]

Oh right! And on that item

The problem is that it WILL spend your mana, which is kinda bad

especially if you're utilizing lost knowledge

[unreal hollow]

probably you need like 50% make it useful

[distant leaf]

Nah, there are two ways to use it

[unreal hollow]

yeah, lost knowledge is a staple for me

700 ward per casting of a spammable skill is kind of ridiculous

[distant leaf]

1. Kinda low numbers so it doesn't impact your mana too much. 20% from passive tree effectively gives you 20% damage reduction, and just costs some mana when you get hit

OR

2. Big numbers and use your mana pool AS your health pool.

[unreal hollow]

it does not work for ward though

[distant leaf]

Yeah, it's current mana, though, so you don't wanna have your mana get low really

Nope. Just protects health

So it's kind of a weird defensive layer if your health is super low and you die when out of ward anyway

but...I don't know, it's not nothing

[unreal hollow]

but could make the mana bulwark node a bit better for "oh crap" situations

[distant leaf]

I definitely think I have the best take on the stat for this build. It's just disintegrate kinda sucks.

[unreal hollow]

yea, channeling is bad

except for warpath

[distant leaf]

Channeling is aight, it's just that disintegrate doesn't deal enough damage

[unreal hollow]

well, having to stand still is an arguable disadvantage

[distant leaf]

It's definitely a disadvantage, but it's especially a disadvantage if you're also dealing less damage than people who don't have to hold still!

[unreal hollow]

for compensation, these skills do deal more damage (should)

like, the best kind of damage is chtonic fissure

you just drop it, and you have several seconds of aoe damage

over time 🙂

the channeling melee is on the other end of the convenience spectrum

disintegrate is not much better 😄

[mellow laurel]

Not ideal standing still i agree but Foot of the Mountain serves you well for builds like that. Well more so when you have some dodge xD

[lone slate]

are there any really good 1-2 button style builds for ssf? Trying to find something to play for the event thingie

[prisma flint]

what makes a build good or bad for ssf?

[livid spruce]

Good for SSF means the build comes online without the need for very rare or hard to farm items

[craggy perch]

is it possible to get higher chance of rare drop for echo rewards somehow? with cof

[livid spruce]

Some of the passive tier bonuses affect echo rewards. The only factors that affect which echo rewards that generate in the web are corruption and distance from the web center

[unreal hollow]

torment warlock is nice, though I don't know what you mean by "really good"

[lone slate]

what I meant by really good is just a build that dumpsters the game

[unreal hollow]

I don't know any ssf starter like that, if I knew, I'd play that myself 🙂

[left gale]

Glacier sorc -> mana stacking sorc. Very clean transition once you reach higher and higher levels of mana.

[stable hamlet]

other than if you really want a fresh start tomorrow, if I prefer cof instead of mg, is there really any point in restarting tomorrow? I get if youre into MG a new fresh cycle economy is where i figure the fun for them is at. However, if I didn't want to do MG is there any reason not to just chill with my current offline legacy toon that i just restarted?(Lost original saves and didn't have cloud back ups)

[wraith hazel]

One point of restarting as CoF, is simple: Restarting.
Having a new start every few months is for me personally crucial for long time fun. I'm always up for a reset.

I remember my first restart in D2 LOD, yeah it was an odd idea to let go a fully equiped endgame char. But me and my friends realizied very quickly, that this new game experience was refreshing enough to keep us in the game for quite a while.

But if are not playing with friends, not trading and not playing the leaderboards, you can technically just continue to play your char on legacy ofc.

[modern iris]

man dupe doesnt matter it happened 3 months ago. this restart is not about gold reset clearly

it's just a refresh because we will be in this cycle for 6 month

and without restart it would be almost 9 month cycle

thats it

[snow palm]

dumb statement. im cof how did i exploit? and i dont want to restart guess its not the majority huh?

[ruby pulsar]

If only there was a to keep playing your character when the event goes live.

Some magical way you didn't really have to restart.

[naive void]

oh great, I can't fix item tooltips going everywhere anymore 🫠

[strong pebble]

is favour not supposed to transfer over to legacy? i managed to transfer all my materials, faction rep, items from stash and even existing prophecies over but my previous favour of 150k is now 900. this isnt intended right?

[livid spruce]

Intended for now, it's how it has been

[strong pebble]

in that case i think the migration mechanic should be more clearly defined for players, as i specifically looked up on the forums (because there isnt any clear and easily accessible official documentation) on what would transfer over and what would not before the cycle reset, but still got caught out on this

[naive void]

@strong pebble love the Coletta pfp. That album is great

[crisp totem]

Anyone able to take me to CoF ?

[mint nacelle]

would love a tp to Cof if anyone has it!

[violet citrus]

+1 LFG TP to COF if anyone has it and is free 🙂

[wicked swallow]

LF a TP to CoF If someone got it please !

[crystal basin]

can anyone help me out with a teleport to cof

[jagged wigeon]

can anyone help me out with a teleport to cof? can return the favor for your twink!

[finite trellis]

feels like this shouldn't be the use of this chat

[livid spruce]

It's not

[charred spear]

LF a tp CoF pls 🙂

[hollow fable]

can anyone help me out with a teleport to cof

[misty zephyr]

also looking for a TP

[hollow breach]

whats cof and how do i get there lol

[teal plinth]

You can't really miss it, just play through campaign

[mystic sundial]

How long does it take you die hard players to level up CoF ?

[arctic seal]

you hit max rank at around the same time you hit 100

[lament mica]

Should be a lot faster with the event boost atm

[untold shale]

without event ~98lvl, with event proly about 95

[gusty lake]

is COF still worth it over mg?

[untold shale]

with cof you could find some amazing items, but not always for char are you playing 😉 if you like to play more than 1 build/char per season than its fine. but if you need specific items it could be quite hard (from random drop, items from bosses are easy to get when you reach cof10)

[stable hamlet]

I've decided my stance on cof vs mg for a cycle is this; do I want to do legacy offline vs whatever new cycle online? I am a huge fan of cof, however I think MG def has it merits if you plan to play MP. However, you have to have the willingness to put in the effort to make the most of of MG i feel. CoF is great cause i just need simple filter for my my build(s) and no worrying about what is value potential

[prisma flint]

when i do a prophecy that says weavers will 16, does it mean the item will allways have 16 or 16 or more

[livid spruce]

If it's anything like the LP prophs, it rolls WW like normal, and then if it wouldd have been less than 16, it's set to 16

They definitely can be higher

[prisma flint]

perfect ty 🙂

[grave hornet]

Can someone give me the port to CoF?

[primal shuttle]

LF TP to CoF area.

[brave jungle]

is the CoF rune of ascendency bug still happening where tyhe 45% proc makes it cost 2 instead of 0?

[livid spruce]

iirc that was a visual bug only

[brave jungle]

mine used 2 instead of 1 yesterday

[wanton rampart]

question about the prophecies dropping "jewellery" in south lens: does this include relics or rings and amulets only?

[livid spruce]

Jewelry is rings, amulets, and relics

[raw mortar]

Can unique weapon prophecies drop boss specific stuff or is it limited to the normal drop pool ?

[livid spruce]

Normal drop pool only

[wraith hazel]

Wasn't it always that if you spend 1 Favor, you get 2 Rep for it? 🤔

I understood the Reputation buff that we would get 50% more Reputation per Favor spent. But I see it is still 2 Rep per 1 Favor.

Where is my mistake in thinking?

[livid spruce]

Yes, I think right now it should be 3 rep per favor spent or earned. I haven't verified that though.

[nimble crater]

With the chance for rares to drop as exalted items, is it more efficient to buy rare item prophecies or exalted item prophecies?

[ocean iris]

Exalted, still

[livid spruce]

It is efficient to buy the rare ones once you hit that bonus, yes - significantly moreso if the item you want has a specific prophecy (like "rare bone amulets"). The rare prophs are just so cheap.

[nimble crater]

I never even knew there were prophecies for bases

[near badger]

what is ilvl of items from prophecies based on? can I get red rings if I run "kill majasa" one which is only lvl 55 boss?

[main breach]

is cof just worse that mechants?

[wraith hazel]

It was 2 when I checked today

[outer nacelle]

maybe still only 2 for 1 when using, but 50% increased when you gain the favor. so not double dipping on the bonus

[livid spruce]

It is intended to double dip on the bonus, they said it is overall 125% more rep gain

[livid spruce]

I just tested myself as well and additionally tried rezoning and relogging just in case the UI wasn't updating properly, and it does indeed only give 2 rep per favor spent. So, it appears to be bugged to not grant the 50% rep gain (at least, not for favor spending - can't comment on the rep per favor gained).

[hidden temple]

There aren't any 1lp Red Rings in Bazaar lmao. And the lowest price 0lp Red Ring is 35 million. I miss CoF.

[livid spruce]

We're only a couple days into the cycle, I think that's normal. Especially for a less hype cycle, fewer players means less market stuff.

[tidal moon]

how do I get to COF? I just finished ch7, no sanctum key

[primal shuttle]

LF CoF waypoint

[sleek wigeon]

can anyone link me a tool or some thing that tells me where i can find certain mobs for cof prophecies ?

[ocean iris]

Just saw on reddit, is it true bow prophecy didnt drop when farmed with other than rogue?

[ocean iris]

Yea just checked, tried with mage, 12 bow prophecy only drop 2

[livid spruce]

Frozen Sentinel has a public google doc that has info like that: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=537937136#gid=537937136

[safe arrow]

Hello, I have a pb for my build i need the world spliter axe , that should drop from the harbringer of hatred but when i go to fight the harbringer inside the black sun timeline i faced off a different one. Where can i find the harbringer of hatred? Since i'm playing CoF and this is my main unique for my build i'm in a pinch rn

[livid spruce]

The Black Sun is correct. Ignore the name, it's a visual bug.

[safe arrow]

ahh okay thank you

[thorny dome]

Hello, do the prophicies labeled unique armor (with the body armor icon) drop body armors specifically or is it just random pieces of "Armor"?

[livid spruce]

If it just says unique armor, it can be any type of armor

[thorny dome]

thank you

[outer nacelle]

there's prophecies with specifically body armor though. with the same icon (which is confusing and should be changed)

[summer atlas]

The favor and reputation gain feels good. We should keep it forever in the base game.

[runic lagoon]

I'm thinking that CoF needs some kind of restructuring.

I've spent more than 15 prophecies on trying to get an exalted Soul Harvester with minion spell damage or shared necrotic penetration. I've only been able to find one from a prophecy and not a single other drop since the reset and I'm level 98. It works well with uniques but exalted items are very difficult to come by.

[prisma vector]

I agree. Farming exalted are a pain in the ass and a half

[regal knoll]

Any1 who went just for peak of mountain farm, is it worth to farm tier 1? Since it's less specific drop.

[final zealot]

if a boot is consdered very rare and u do prophecies for them, what are the odds of getting that boot?

[twilit jetty]

I spent 500 hours farming cof in 1.1 and hardly found any LP4 items 😅, 1-2 I'd use, many that I wouldn't

[summer atlas]

It would be nice if we can target farm a specific base too.

[wraith hazel]

That would surely ease the pain!

[nocturne stirrup]

i need to farm a better 2h sword or a merophage

anytips on getting anyof those?

i cannot even post images

omg

[frosty pelican]

1.6% for Razorfall

[frosty pelican]

farm mage for merophage, do prophecy for unique 2H, do echos with more corruption for exalt 2H

[versed badger]

any mage or acolyte want to help me doing propechies helmet? need Int T7

I can help farm favor 300-600k/hrs

[final zealot]

finally got my razorfall

so happy

[loud mulch]

Hey guys, Im currently rank 5 COF and am trying to use runes of ascendance on profane wands to get marina's but none of my blighted wands are droppin with rank 1 COF required and therefore wont benefit from the 45% chance to not use runes of ascendance, is there a reason why im not dropping blighted wands (or any rares that i can notice) with rank 1 COF required?

[frosty pelican]

It will only have the tag if the item was created or modified in some way by CoF. Either upgraded affix, rarity, etc. or prophecies

[loud mulch]

ty

[outer nacelle]

wand type doesn't matter when doing rune of ascendance either.

[zinc silo]

Hi, in CoF, whenever you take a node with 1 legendary potential, it means that it will have 1 LP at least or overall?

[livid spruce]

1 LP minimum, but honestly not worth the massive cost

[rigid yoke]

does it matter if i do my prophecies 500corruption vs 100 corruption?

i mean higher lp in theory on 500?

or its the same

[livid spruce]

Yes, they are affected by corruption LP chance

[short edge]

hi guys, can I use a CoF item on a char that hadn't reach chapter 9 yet?

[livid spruce]

Yeah, once you've gotten to ch 9 on one character, other characters that share a stash with that one can pick faction in the very first town

[distant leaf]

Father toast is correct, but the bonus is slight. Not nothing, though

[delicate berry]

somehow i feel like CoF needs a really serious buff in order to get something valuable without grinding for days. if you go MG you can just buy the stuff with gold that you find everywhere but going CoF even on level 12 you barely find something useful with a proper adjusted lootfilter. there should be additional ways to adjust droprates according to affixes instead of just selecting the item type. using the MG you can just skip all the farming and farm gold instead to buy almost perfect items for cheap and craft a little to get the item you seek. doing the same with CoF is literally impossible. you need to go through way too many RNG doors to get the same value out that you can just buy with gold on the bazaar. useable T6 / T7 are still ultra rare even as single affix when you need something specific especially ones for skills and the bigger the affix pool for a certain item is the more unlikely it is that you get the exact affix you want as T7. as MG you would just buy the item with your desired affix maybe gamble a bit to remove undesired ones and still come out with a proper item that you might be able to use. its not really balanced at all. yes now you can say the bazaar is dependant on people putting stuff in. but that still is a huge advantage towards finding stuff yourself. you literally draw from all the stuff other people find by using the MG while with CoF you are forced to find stuff all alone i.e CoF buffs should reflect that with huge increases in drop rates or selecting specific affixes to buff over prophecy or being able to decide the base item.

[winter shadow]

"just buy stuff with the gold you find" is a massive oversimplification my dude

[delicate berry]

really? how so

[winter shadow]

so you just materialize gold out of thin air or something?

[delicate berry]

thing is

you can find gold everywhere its abundant

at one point you can buy the item

while finding it is completely RNG

and on top of that you can even sell items for gold and generate it there

[winter shadow]

what you're preaching is to make COF complete equal to MG - which will never happen unless EHG wants to ruin the game by making item finding absurdly easy

as long as there are enough of a player population - MG will always be better for acquiring items

[delicate berry]

yes. as both factions should be balanced dont you think ? having a bazaar already ruins the game when you can buy selected items from others having a huge advantage towards people who cant do that.

[winter shadow]

they "should" be balanced, theoritically. But in reality you cannot do that

due to the power of MG is based on the numbers of active players

let say you "balance" COF and MG based on the assumption that there will be 10k active players in MG

but now suddenly there are 50k MG players

[delicate berry]

you can? i.e giving the player more ways to adjust for items he wants? CoF is meant as "finding stuff" faction so whats the problem in giving the players more ways to adjust his findings to make it fair compared to people who can just hoard gold and buy items from the bazaar without needing to find stuff themselves ?

[winter shadow]

would you buff 5 times the drop of COF now to balance it out?

then what happen next if the population drops off to 5k?

would you then decrease COF droprate 10times to balance it out?

COF and MG serves different purpose

aim at different kind of players

[livid spruce]

Not exactly, no. They should both be viable and fun. Trade's power fluctuates constantly, it wouldn't make any sense to try to make them equivalent in power.

[winter shadow]

in a perfect world, 2 players 1 in MG, 1 in COF should have equal chance of acquiring their chase items yes

in reality you just cant do that

[summer walrus]

Just started playing yesterday, but as ive played some other ARPGS already id say COF is more for Hardcore Gamers (More gametime = more loot) and Merchant for Casuals since its easier to get BiS Items

[winter shadow]

also mind you, "jsut buy everything with gold" is very not true

[delicate berry]

you can. as the thing that you can buy items from the bazaar doesnt change regardless of how many people are in MG. the question is how can you make it fair enough so that going the "finding stuff yourself" way doesnt feel underwhelming compared to just buying almost complete items from the bazaar with a abundant commodity. CoF buffs should reflect the mightyness of being able to just buy items that need minor adjustment from going MG right now they do not and thats the thing

[winter shadow]

i can have gazzilion gold and still won't be able to buy the items i want, simply becuase it doesnt exist

[winter shadow]

no this is very not true

especially this phrase

[delicate berry]

really?

[winter shadow]

the thing that you can buy items from the bazaar doesnt change regardless of how many people are in MG

this one

[delicate berry]

you have a huge advantage in being able to just buy items for your build

[winter shadow]

you NEED to have ppl farming to put items up the market

[delicate berry]

why should you ever choose to find stuff yourself when its bad?

there will always be people doing that

[winter shadow]

😂

go to legacy

and find out

[summer walrus]

For the Dopamin rush when you finally make your BiS Item

[winter shadow]

jsut ask everyone playing MG

and they'll tell you that what you're thinking is very far from true

if youér talking about low hanging fruits ala non-luxury high end items then yeah maybe it's true

[delicate berry]

the market will never be dead completely i play in legacy. today i switched from T12 CoF to T1 MG because i was curious about the bazaar and wanted to know how it looks like seeing it the first time. now i realize if i had chosen MG right from the start my build would be almost complete now by just buying items for 1-2 mil and adjusting them a little. (excluded uniques).

[winter shadow]

higher than that

definitely not

[winter shadow]

this already contradict your statement earlier

[delicate berry]

really? how so

[winter shadow]

the "excluding uniques" part

[delicate berry]

yes and? i talked about T6 / 7 base items

in the initial part

[winter shadow]

that's not "everything" bud

[delicate berry]

well

[winter shadow]

unless everything means different from where u from

[delicate berry]

thing is even then then MG is superior as you are still able to buy them with just farming gold for it without caring for the exorbitant low dropchance for an LP 3/4 marinas or omnis

[winter shadow]

the MG is superior as long as there is a certain number of active players

no one argue that

that's how it works

mind you there are some very hardcre COF players

claim that COF is far superior at the end of a season

to be precise at the end of 1.0 season 1

you can check it out here in this channel

[delicate berry]

well i dont play seasons so i dont care for them. i dont really like season models in any ARPG :/

thats why i choose legacy right from the start since beta

[winter shadow]

up to you

COF should be better for you then

[delicate berry]

thats what i thought yes

[winter shadow]

may i ask how much favor are you earning per hour?

[delicate berry]

but as said earlier just having a peek at the bazaar made me regret my choice and now im locked with items that dropped with CoF and are build dependant

[winter shadow]

becuase the efficiency of your favor farming is directly related to your item acquiring rate

[delicate berry]

idk tbh. i usually save the favor until i have 100k which is usually around a few hours to farm i think ? by going monos. im using double 2x lenses + lens for item i want increased

[winter shadow]

well

farm better i guess

ppl here are doing something like 200k-250k favor per hr

[delicate berry]

well yeah if you are complete build i guess thats possible. i just started playing 2 weeks ago since beta. to archive that amount you still have to reach your stuff first to be able to farm that many favor in a hour

[winter shadow]

that could be true, but 100k for few hrs is tad too slow

[delicate berry]

i really doubt that would change anything tbh especially compared to just farming gold instead. you grind for favor then you grind again for the prophecy in hope you get what you want and if not -> repeat? compared to "just buying stuff" you farm gold maybe some good items you know sell nice and thats it you have your item

thats what i meant with buffs should reflect the ability to being able to buy items you need with just gold

[merry surge]

CoF is already balanced around not having access to the Bazaar. LE is the only ARPG to date that actually offers a system for solo players to farm their drops without relying on trade. I think most people agree it's a very generous system.

[delicate berry]

so watching this you even need a specific setup for 200k+ favor / hr which makes it even less desireable idk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcon6vY_lDI

[delicate berry]

it is generous yet still underwhelming when you compare the ability to buy perfect or almost items towards finding items with randomized stats where you can only choose the item type but not the base item or focus on certain affixes and where you need luck in the end that they are the right ones because of RNG

you can literally skip the whole finding items and crafting stuff with just farming gold and using the bazaar

how is CoF balanced for that matter ?

[livid spruce]

Well yeah, of course, trade is trade

[merry surge]

You can and you should if that's what is more convenient for you, as it is for the vast majority of players. CoF is specifically for people who don't want to trade at all, it gives you many generous opportunities to target farm what you need, as opposed to every other ARPG that doesn't have any kind of compensatory system for non-trade players. The Bazaar is a trading system that directly scales with the number of people who are actively engaging with it. It will always vary and it will always be more optimal to go Bazaar in an active playerbase, there really is no way to balance CoF anymore than it currently is without undermining MG entirely.

[delicate berry]

well i hated the trading in PoE big time thats why i choose and liked the approach on CoF. i would really like to find my stuff on my own instead of being forced to buy it because the droprates suck also i dont want to farm gold and trade with other players or haggle for items thats the exact point why CoF should be appealing. but to compensate for that the buffs CoF provide are simply not outweighting the ability to being able to buy stuff just like in PoE

[merry surge]

Therein lies your misunderstanding of what CoF is supposed to be, I think.

CoF isn't supposed to outweigh trading.

Trading is supposed to be more optimal, it's a matter of scale, that's just how it works.

PoE doesn't have anything even remotely like CoF which compensates for SSF players.

CoF makes the choice easier for non-trade players, it doesn't eliminate the advantage of trading.

[delicate berry]

well my believe is if you want to give the player an alternative to trading then CoF should be balanced around the mighty ability to being able to just buy stuff. i.e it should at least give a similar mighty tool just on finding stuff yourself instead of trading for it thats what im saying. the reason CoF exists is what you said right? to give the player a way to archive stuff without trading. but when said alternative is bad compared to just buy stuff what kind of right to exist does it have? why should you choose it when they dont provide benefits on the same level playing field? then you can just go with the "usual approach" and only go the trading way.

[delicate berry]

exactly this it should

as that is the reason it exists

it should enable people to being able to find stuff themselves without being forced to trade

as they both factions exclude each other

[merry surge]

MG loses all reason to exist the day CoF becomes the more optimal choice. Trading in this game will just be dead.

As a CoF person myself, I find the system to be extremely generous for non-trade players as it currently is.

I have no problem finding stuff, plenty of bases, plenty of glyphs/runes, plenty of opportunities to craft your perfect item.

Will I be able to do it faster on MG? Yes, but that's the point. More people tradfing means more supply and easier access to goods. But I've never once felt I was forced to trade as CoF. I always go into it knowing that CoF is still just RNG, but it's significantly boosted RNG.

I play PoE too and to be honest, even without a system like CoF, I still don't feel like I'm forced to trade.

[delicate berry]

thing is i doubt trading will ever be inferior to finding stuff yourself regardless at least as long you are still forced to find stuff yourself by going CoF. just buying something you want with gold which is abundant will always be superior compared to finding stuff yourself.

im just asking for adjustments to it to not make it completely out of the way and RNG dependant. as on the other way around you can just buy specific stuff you need from the bazaar so why should you not be able to do the same with finding stuff yourself by being able to adjust for it over prophecy for example? i.e tiers or base items or idk anything. that way it would be a real alternative for people to choose if they rather want trading or finding stuff themselves. the options to adjust the RNG over prophecy right now are way too vague and the adjustment is no match compared to the bazaar.

you are literally locked out completely from the bazaar. but on the other way you are not locked out from finding items with going MG so you can still find stuff that might be useful for you by going MG but going CoF you loose every advantage on using the bazaar for an increase of dropchance where everything is RNG and you cant influence the outcomes directly in your favor aside from selecting the items you want to focus on which means everything you drop when being able to influence the outcome will need to be either useful right away or otherwise being able to craft on to make up for the ability the bazaar delivers.

[merry surge]

Your experience and perception of CoF are valid, but I think your expectations are just misaligned with most players who go CoF. Many of us would say CoF might even be a bit too strong.

[delicate berry]

how can the need to find items on your own that "might" be okay be stronger compared to being able to just buy items that "actually are" okay? i dont get that

[merry surge]

That's extremely simple

The answer is that self-discovery is a huge component of CoF.

[delicate berry]

by going CoF you give up the advantage of just buying your build items completely to be able to dip your foot deeper into the RNG pool for a "chance" to being able to find what you need

[merry surge]

The RNG is the fun, so to speak.

You diminish a huge aspect of CoF's appeal by making it more deterministic than it already is.

[delicate berry]

when you want that RNG factor is the fun you dont implement a way for other peoples to trade items though regardless of the choice

[merry surge]

Why not? MG exists for people who want to trade. CoF is there for people who don't want to trade. Just don't engage with the trade systems if you don't want to. Why should the fact that other people engage with trade influence how you have fun in this game?

[delicate berry]

because you have a huge disadvantage? i literally pointed that out earlier. you said yourself CoF is no real alternative compared to trading so why have it then when it effectively locks you out? that way you only have 2 choices either you get your actual progress from buying items from others OR you have a "chance" for progress because everything is RNG. and thats the fun? wheres the actual fairness?

when you lock people out from trading i believe you need to make up for the alternative in similar ways at least to not make it look like a disadvantage when you are forced to find stuff on your own and have to deal with all the RNG that trading players are just able to skip completely

[merry surge]

The disadvantage is in your head.

The advantage is you have fun finding your own loot.

Who are you competing with?

If the current CoF system isn't fun for you, by all means keep advocating for what you want to see, but I don't think you'll garner a lot of support either here or in general.

[delicate berry]

when i can buy perfect items with gold compared to needing to find items with completely RNG affixes that will most likely never drop perfectly or at least with little to no additional crafting necessary because you can make no adjustments to it this is no disadvantage?

[merry surge]

You also don't need to find items that are perfectly rolled with all of the affixes you need. That's what the crafting system is for. CoF gives you access to an effectively unlimited supply of glyphs/runes. You are expected to find something that's decent and craft something better from it, which the system gives you plenty of opportunities to do.

Beyond that, if you perceive a disadvantage, then as I said it's all just in your head. It's a psychological disadvantage. Your brain is telling you that CoF isn't worth your time because it has assigned more value to the loot itself and not the process of finding the loot. In which case, I would simply recommend just sticking with MG because this line of thinking can't be satiated short of just giving you the item you're targeting exactly.

[delicate berry]

tbh i was really excited when i read up the modifiers on the CoF levels as i finally thought "wow finally i can skip trading completely and just find stuff myself" but the actual feeling doesnt make up for that initial excitement and as said when i switched today because i was curious and wanted to see how the bazaar is made (i never saw it) i was greatly disappointed

[hushed crest]

if you want to buy perfect items, that's fine. circle of fortune is for people who want the feeling of finding that perfect item while playing. in PoE there is no advantage to not using the market, at least LE gives you one

[onyx orbit]

Definitely poe is torture if you play SSF. It is meant to be harder. This game balances both COF and MG to be around the same overall.

[gleaming epoch]

With current scale of the trade you actually cannot buy a perfect item, at all. All you have is a compromise because there is too low playerbase to provide market with something worthwhile. Show me Nihilis LP3 on the market. Ravenous void at least LP2? Or maybe LP4 Exsanguinous? Or t7 mana + t7 skill on body armour? Nothing of it. Not because it was sold for 1kkk gold to RMB but because there is no chance to see it with such low playerbase. You'll never find it on trade while you have SOME chances to get it in CoF because of multiplication of bonuses from fraction, prophecies and corruption.

Also we should take into account that a lot of skillful players that might provide quality equipment to the market play with CoF so market is flooded with low-quality equipment from c100 enjoyers. When LE will have playerbase comparable to PoE you can start talking about "trade advantage". Right now it is pointless.

[delicate berry]

i have heard that lots of times yesterday "the playerbase". but fact is at least you have a realistic chance to get one when someone places it inside by only needing to farm gold instead of having a extremely low chance to drop one yourself even with all the buffs in place that CoF offers. that is the point here. you are able to get it without wasting months of life time to farm your LP 4 super rare unique and this with the standard currency and the only limiting factor is how many players there are? right now all that CoF offers is an increase of "chances" for something to drop without being able to influence specifics for it except for the item type. this compared to "you can just buy the item type , base type , affixes you might desire and tiers" even when it comes to uniques is a joke frankly speaking.

[gleaming epoch]

Let me know once you find any of aforementioned items (or similar rarity) on the trade. While I definitely saw CoF folk with these items

[wraith hazel]

As arena player I always doubted that MG is by default better. Yeah sure, we CoF people can't keep the pace for the first weeks, but in the end I see the way more shiny chars by CoF players. And yes, a very few crazy once-in-a-cycle drops are more a MG thing, but you see that very rarely.

In the end it should all not matter, but rather come to the question: What is most fun for you?

[delicate berry]

well as stated yesterday the most fun would be not needing to buy anything from any player based market and either being able to craft your stuff yourself with minimal effort at best (and progress) or even better having stuff dropping that isnt influenced heavily by RNG (which i thought CoF would be way better but i was disappointed as you still have to deal heavily with RNG just by dropping more trash is no real progress in chances)

[gleaming epoch]

the most fun FOR YOU 🙂 not for all players

[delicate berry]

he asked what would be the most fun for me and i answered

[wraith hazel]

Even if such items hit the market once in a while - everybody and their mum wants to buy that.
There is never the supply to have the crazy stuff for everybody 😄

Whereas the CoF folks can plan with a very high average, all of them^^

[gleaming epoch]

I've tried to catch them with buddies, nothing like that yet. May miss something anyway but I believe such items comes with price not reachable for players without buying gold for real money.

But I'd made screenshot at least 😁

[wraith hazel]

I personally think EHG did a really great job with the factions. Players of both claim constantly that their faction is superior - what else could you ask for? 🤷‍♂️

[gleaming epoch]

I like both but trade seems not so strong without huge playerbase for me, Haven't found any quality gear there yet, gonna return back to CoF

[wraith hazel]

Yeah, come to the CoF side, we have 🍪

[oak totem]

Unpopular opinion: that guy just wants the game to go his way and will not listen to any sliver of anything else unless it echoes his point of view. 👀

[winter shadow]

^this

everyone who think they can just go out and buy whatever they want with gold must go and try to get some really high end stuff

[winter shadow]

i dont think that's unpopular at all

[delicate berry]

thing is. "really high end stuff" or in other words "chasing items" like in diablo jargon are meant to be exorbitantly rare. so you should be suited to maybe never get them anyways regardless of the factions. you keep talking about uniques with LP above 2 and so very low drop chances. i talked from the start about T6 / 7 items with proper stats and this is still where trading outshines CoF as you can just buy the desired base items with stats you want and this without needing to waste your time to go through the RNG pile of trash drops for several weeks. the uniques with LP 3/4 are just the icing on the complete cake but they are nothing without the rest that comes before.

a great example would be idols. since last week im trying to find an idol with 2 specific stats. im doing prophecy for them on and on but until now i only found 1 and this after a week of 10 hours daily grinding hard. if i would have chosen MG instead one such idol costs 8mil gold. i could skip the whole part of crawling through the trash piles that drop by doing prophecys and just focusing on farming up gold instead to have the idol and with almost max stats even.

this is the exact point i mean.

[winter shadow]

if that's what you're trying to achieve

just play MG then

🤷🏽‍♂️

what's stoppping you?

as everybody has already said

COF and MG both has their advantage

[wraith hazel]

Which idol you can't hunt via prophecies? Never had a problem to get my Idols in the end with CoF ^^

[winter shadow]

you're only looking at the better side of MG and preaching for COF to always have that

[winter shadow]

i dont understand ppl saying they find only the joy in finding ppl by themself

[delicate berry]

the problem is not that you cant hunt idols effectively but the stat variation is so great that the chance of getting one with the 2 desired stats is very low and you cant influence that at all. and this for only an idol. and by being part of a faction that is considered to help you with finding stuff yourself

[winter shadow]

then next sentence complaining about how easy it is for trade ppl to get what they want

[winter shadow]

the same thing happen for MG no?

let's say i want to get a max roll mana/armor 3x1 idol for mage

which is the most sought out idol in the game atm i think

do you think you can just search it out and buy it?

[delicate berry]

the balance is the question here. if i grind for weeks for a single item that isnt even supposed to be exorbitantly rare like an LP4 omnis then something is wrong when you even play a faction that specializes about finding stuff yourself. theres a difference between "finding stuff yourself and being happy with it" and "wasting your time with doing so because you rarely get what you want regardless"

[winter shadow]

you understand that MG or not the items you want still need to be DROPPED from ppl farming them right?

🤦🏽‍♂️

said it already bud

there will never be balance between the 2 faction

simple unachievable

there wont be and there's no need for it

you're arguing based on your assumption that MG is ALWAYS better than COF

which is far from the truth as you can see alot off ppl have said

[delicate berry]

ah yes i forgot people rather prefer to waste their time for weeks instead of demanding changes to the system so that the fairness between both factions in terms of "getting what you want without wasting too much of your time" is adjusted : )

[wraith hazel]

I personally think, that CoF is superior in terms of Uniques (both, global and boss) and Idols, and heads up in terms of Exalteds. + I hate trading and usually don't like the trading community = easy choice for me.

But what I, or whomever, think - that is not important, important is what youthink. Just chose what ever you like more, or you think is stronger, or both - and be glad we can have this choice 😄

[winter shadow]

getting what you want by wasting time is the name of the genre dude =)))

[delicate berry]

really? strange. the only one that said this about was diablo

but i think grim dawn tried to break with this

[wraith hazel]

probably better say "hunting", not "getting" 🤭

[winter shadow]

yep

cuz you'll never get it

[wraith hazel]

I learned in the past 20 years to plan more realistic. Usually I get close to what I want eventually 🙂

[winter shadow]

i just go with what i find along the way

[wraith hazel]

Praise the CoF! You can plan with a pretty nice standard 😄

[winter shadow]

no plan needed

:5head

😎

[warped trout]

until someone shows me multiple videos of 2-4 red rings dropping in a single map (or the equivalent trade value of items) for an mg player, this debate is pretty silly lol. yes, the obscure idol with perfect stats, or getting that weak unique to get your build online on day one will always be to the advantage of mg. or maybe you want to play an extremely unpopular build, then sure, mg is very strong. but for actual meta items for meta builds to push high corruption, mg doesnt even come close to what cof does right now

[distant leaf]

Lol, I think this is pretty silly. There was a build showcase for a spellblade disintegrate character on reddit that was only like 3 weeks old that had 20x better gear than my CoF character I'd played all cycle. 3lp in every slot, etc. It was absolutely bonkers

I suppose I don't know for sure, and maybe it's a grass is always greener situation, but the builds I see from MG are way more high end than I could do with 1000 hours in CoF

[delicate berry]

and maybe that should change somehow to give CoF an realistic chance to keep up with this especially because once you decided its hard to switch as items you dropped or bought are bound to the faction. heres the thing: all that high end uniques mean nothing when you cant fulfill your build because nothing of value drops. because you need specific items or certain substats that you cant influence at all. and while the mg player just buys the base items with desired stats you are left with crawling through piles of loot trash until you find the one item that can help you with your build and then you realize you need the other 10. the "excuse" that CoF is better for chase items means nothing when you already have completed your build with stuff you bought from the bazaar and where the chase items are just the last icing on the cake while you dont really need them anymore

[oak totem]

I don’t really understand this debate at all.

Isn’t the point of games of this genre to enjoy the loot aspect of the game? I think CoF caters more to that aspect (in a more “satisfactory feel” when you find that piece) versus just buying it off the auction house.

Not to say that the Merchant’s Guild doesn’t have its perks but I don’t get the same feeling from “just buying” my gear.

But hey, to each their own.

I like running around looking for items and crafting my gear etc so I’m definitely a huge fan of CoF but I play Trade League in PoE (mostly because it’s so deep and complex) that I’d rather just “buy and not think” because PoE makes my brain hurt so much.

Last Epoch is a great middle ground where I feel like I can just choose something to play and drop/craft my way through it with how simple it is to get into.

[hushed crest]

imo merchant's guild should be really limited. if you're a casual player of PoE your only choice to make progress is to buy high level player's busted crafts that fit your build, without the market you're absolutely screwed, it's a huge crutch. i don't think buffing CoF makes sense because it's already a big advantage to target stuff you want, MG needs to be nerfed. maybe use a point system, you do something in game to earn points, then spend those points on trades. more expensive trades require more points

[warped trout]

couldnt tell you anything about a disintegrate build. if some guy made it work, great. its definitely as off meta as it gets, so yes, he will be able to build his character really quickly and really cheap from mg. but i said that in my post. for instance theres an off meta frost claw build thats doing 1k corruption right now. you can probably get half the items in the build for free with 2 lp right now by just having the mg rep. but thats a very unpopular build. my comment specifically is in regards to popular builds and items. high level cof players have stash tabs full of 2lp uniques that mg players simply cannot get unless they hit the lottery and find something they dont need that is extremely rare, like a red ring or a 2lp warp or something

[delicate berry]

but is that really the solution to nerf MG to make CoF look stronger in exchange? how does that help with you finding actual good stuff without grinding weeks for a single item that isnt even a LP4 super rare impossible to get unique? im talking about double T6 / 7 or something with rare stuff like skills or penetration or curse on selected base items. how does current CoF system influence that in your favor outside of "providing more trash for you to go through" ? all of that trash just gets filtered out by the lootfilter. also dont forget as the item pool and so the affixes grow the chance to get certain affixes as T6 / 7 gets lower aswell as the pool becomes bigger and bigger at some point we are at PoE levels where the affix pool is so big that getting a single desired affix is like winning the lottery which forces players to buy complete stuff aswell in the end

[hushed crest]

good things being rare is just how ARPGs work

[delicate berry]

as long as you are able to buy them with "the other guild" and not being forced to deal with this at all this statement looses its use completely sadly

you said it yourself that in PoE people rather buy stuff instead of doing it themselves because its literally impossible with the huge affix pool to get what you want

[hushed crest]

the reason markets exist in game is because without them, people would just trade outside the game anyway. in a forum or something. might as well make it convenient for the player

you can't stop people from trading

[delicate berry]

trading can be a thing

i never said it shouldnt

im just saying the alternative should be viable compared to this

[hushed crest]

it IS viable. MG is ez mode, and it will always be that way. i don't want to be able to effortlessly craft perfect gear, that ruins the fun of the game. CoF is more challenging and fun

[distant leaf]

A fair point! In any case, I did cof much more fun

[delicate berry]

that means at some point you want PoE levels then when theres too many affixes in the game so that certain affixes as T7 double are even rarer than an LP4 unique ? because "thats the fun" ? if that would be fun people would not buy perfect items in PoE from the marketplace but for some reason they do strange isnt it? they refuse to pick the "fun" option of finding stuff themselves thats literally impossible to find and we even have a CoF system that isnt really making it better you get the irony in this ? xD

[warped trout]

well i just finished finding decent enough gear to swap to cof, and have officially swapped at about half my power. i cant wait to experience it tbh. especially when theres not enough people to really support mg

lvl 99.6 embarking on a new mission

[oak totem]

And what about the population in PoE that are literally strictly solo self found?

There is a population of people in that game who never interact with the market and have just as much fun as people who do.

And you said it yourself that PoE is much larger and more complex than Last Epoch so if they can make it work when PoE’s itemization system is leaps and bounds ahead of Last Epoch in terms of the pool of affixes then why wouldn’t Last Epoch players be able to do the same?

I dunno. I’m no expert but I just feel as if you don’t really want to look at it objectively versus subjectively given how your opinion of the system is currently shaped.

[winter shadow]

preach

😎

ppl need to stop thinking of COF as an "alternative" to trading

[oak totem]

I dunno. I think he’s just debating for debating sake at this point. Isn’t the point of ARPGs supposed to be the hours of endless grinding? Isn’t that why we’re all here? Lmao.

[winter shadow]

idk either

he already contradict his point so i dont think there's any reason left to debate

[oak totem]

I just think of it as a way for me to see loot splosions on my screen. 🤣🤣🤣

I just love loot.

[winter shadow]

ultimately it's a consolation system for ppl who dont want to trade

that's all

instead of doing SSF with miserable drop rate

now you actually have something to cling onto

[oak totem]

I have spotty Internet connection at best sometimes so the fact that I can play offline and have a way to still see a bunch of loot is a huge W for me.

So I’m very much pro-CoF lmao

Anywhoo, just enjoy the game my guy. Wherever you are.

And if you don’t find it fun anymore, just stop playing.

The main thing should be your fun factor after all.

No point in playing a game where you feel as if you’re not having fun because of a system you don’t particularly find to your liking.

Have a great day, everyone! ✨

[delicate berry]

special case. these are people that want an exceptional extra challenge just like people that are playing hardcore which means they stand extra and shouldnt be part of this discussion also dont forget that its rarely possible to play certain builds SSF as the items necessary never drop and you cant trade. so you literally locking you into certain builds / playstyles with the decision to play SSF which for the "normal player" just doesnt count as argument.

[frosty pelican]

It is though, when item factions were announced that's how EHG communicated it. They constantly communicated how CoF != SSF despite people conflating the two

You can group, gift items, use the gold accumulated from MG to buy tabs or use the CoF earned currency items like Rune of Creation on MG items etc.

Whether or not it was successful is up for debate but that was definitely the intent

[winter shadow]

thinking COF is an alternative to trading will just lead to overexpectation that will lead to frustration

[azure ice]

In the future I predict EHG will make MG and COF similar to the forgotten knights allowing all players access to trade and drop rank requirements on gear

All players from casuals to no lifers will be happy

[winter shadow]

that would completely kill the meaning of COF and MG in the first place

and very likely will never happen

[delicate berry]

what is the meaning again? MG = you like trading CoF = you dont like trading. but the outcome difference between both is terrible. if i dont want to trade and pick CoF i expect to find all the stuff i could just buy with gold on MG instead as they exclude each other but that is not really the case at least not in a reasonable amount of time as you can only influence drop density but not "what drops exactly" to some extend i.e base item , certain affix tiers (even outside of ex) , classes ect. and this is the whole problem with CoF when comparing it to MG. as with MG you just buy the desired base items for most likely cheap with just 2 stats you like and then use the crafting system to make a T20 or higher out of it on CoF side you are forced to drop this first over unbelieveable huge piles of item trash until you find one with the desired stats and outside of "more chances" theres nothing to influence. and then crafting can still fail aswell. what then? finding another one such item that isnt even supposed to be ultra rare unique? as MG you buy a second item on crafting fail with similar stats and try it again. so if that isnt meant as alternative to trading then this is really bad and honestly theres no reason at all to keep it at this state then outside of "people having fun finding stuff" as you just hinder your progress drastically for no reason

[serene plinth]

I like CoF a lot more. Shiny things make me happy.

[oak totem]

Agreed.

[rustic grotto]

Absolutly not

[hidden temple]

Mg for this cycle fresh was good for the first few days, but eventually market slowed down. I got most of the items I was going for except for a 1lp red ring slam. The meta t7 items are in low supply and very expensive. Had to refresh bazaar every few hours/days to check.

I prefer CoF gameplay loop with prophecy vs bazaar refreshing.

[distant leaf]

Lol, this statement is so ignorant. Giving trade players access to CoF ruins CoF. Then the only way to acquire power is through trade.

Trade is already more powerful and that's without access to CoF bonuses.

Item factions exist to address this problem from PoE and other games where trade is the ONLY way to play. If you don't buy your gear, you're 1/10th the power level you could be. And to many of us, trade is markedly unfun

[azure ice]

Just because players have access to AH doesn’t mean they will use it

Also no reason to call me ignorant when we are just trying to have a discussion

[distant leaf]

They must use it if they want to ve REMOTELY competitive. If everyone has access, then you will be able to trivially multiply your power by 10 by spending half of your dropped currency.

A la PoE

[azure ice]

That’s what SSF is for

[distant leaf]

I'm calling you ignorant because you do not know the history here nor understand the problem item factions are trying to solve

SSF is for being crappy?

[azure ice]

It’s just something to think about as player numbers start to dwindle. Sounds like you’re having a bad day so I hope it gets better have a good weekend sending kindness your way

[distant leaf]

Games that have trade have to balance the game around trade, which means having pretty low solo drop rates so that the game isn't totally trivialize for trade players.

For trade to make sense, drop rates must be low. This ruins the game for people who don't want to trade

[distant leaf]

Lol, my day is fine. I'm just trying to explain to you that you don't know the history here. And if you think this would make player numbers go up, you're simply wrong

[distant leaf]

But I do appreciate this and hope you have a good weekend, too!

[rustic grotto]

No, SSF is a Solo Self found challange. In a game like PoE, it is a double challange, as you also can't trade.

Wanting to play Selffound has nothing to do with wanting to play solo. This is why LE is the first game to actually solve the trade vs no trade debate by offering both. And as a cherry on top, without separating players into different buckets. Everyone can still play together, regardless of choice. Bonus cherry on top, solo also exists as well as character found.

[upbeat cypress]

Just slammed 11 daggers. Two 3LP, four 2LP and five 1LP, for a total of 0 T6 or T7 affix pulls on them 🥲

Anyone good with math that can tell me my odds on that, assuming each exalted dagger I used only had one T6+ affix?

[amber aurora]

Hi, I am wondering is it better to keep or spend points won at low lvl. For the moment I am only lvl 65

(prophéties)

[upbeat cypress]

Spending them will raise your reputation, allowing you to reach the better rewards faster, while also allowing you to increase the strength of your character from the fulfilled prophecies.

[distant leaf]

1 in about 1100

Very unlikely, assuming you're telling the truth!

[amber aurora]

Ah ok I never paid attention that reputation evolve also with prophecies completed. I asked the question because for the moment I am leveling slowly (hc) and I don't want to lose my character by rushing to fast in differents aeras. I am only at the third one. So I was thinking that the rewards propheties would be less interesting compared to spend points after.

But it's also true that these rewards could improve my sustains even if not so powerful and they could prevent to die.
Lizards are a skill issue for me in monolith, I greed so mutch on it.

[upbeat cypress]

Thank you! I knew it had to be absurdly unlikely. I really wish I was lying. It's honestly making me consider not playing this season anymore unfortunately :/

[upbeat cypress]

Yeah Lizards will get you for sure lol. Taking it slow is good and making sure all your defensive caps are met. You can buy items from the CoF vendor that will limit what areas the prophecies are located. Such as arena, or high corruption monoliths. That should help prevent you from having to go into anywhere too difficult.

[delicate berry]

isnt it weighted 25% for each affix?

i think theres no other influence for tiers

[upbeat cypress]

It should be, unless there are hidden weights for certain affixes (though the one I wanted was melee attack speed, which I am pretty sure is common af lol)

The thing is though, that because some slams were with 2lp and 3lp, the odds change to 50% or 75% for those slams I think. That's why I asked for someone who would maybe know better than me to calculate the odds lol

[delicate berry]

im curious how you found the daggers. with prophecy? or drop?

[amber aurora]

thx for advices. Never bought something at the cof vendor

will try

[upbeat cypress]

Most of the exalted daggers came from prophecies probably. Half the uniqes came from prophecies, and the other half maybe came from upgrading inside the suit of armor guys

[distant leaf]

Every roll of the dice is a fresh start!

But with that many rolls, maybe you've had your fill of the cycle anyway

[upbeat cypress]

It's even worse than what I originally said tbh. I slammed several others, 1 at a time when I would get them, over the last week or so. My original post about the 11 slams were all back to back, chewing through my stored inventory.

[upbeat cypress]

Yeah maybe haha. I'll be back next cycle for sure anyways >.<

[livid spruce]

Yes, that's right (in terms of getting one specific affix on the slam)

[delicate berry]

if its 2:2 the chance would be 50:50 right?

[inner moon]

hi can somoene tp my new character to the CoF place

[rare ivy]

In regards to keeping both CoF and MG to remain separated, so when will there be separate leaderboards for both CoF and MG, or no? The game is about being sweaty/competitive, especially as a CoF player...

[livid spruce]

Yeah, those are equivalent ratios

[livid spruce]

Not sure, maybe never - would be a good #1210282176680169562

[winter shadow]

They're already seperated no?

I know at least arena ladder has a "solo" ladder

It's not strictly COF but MG players def cannot be there

[rare ivy]

CoF players can still gift items (gift feature, not trade feature) to each other as small group of friends (1-4 players), but yeah I see your point.

[azure ice]

Allowing players to use MG and COF in a similar manner as forgotten knights and dropping rank requirements on items will probably never happen. But as player numbers dwindle COF players could add a boost of life to a dead economy. There are major gaps in gearing as COF, prophecies do not target specific sub types or affixes, so the grind can be quite disheartening (especially when trying to slam). Most MG players use COF, but it’s not possible to benefit from MG as a COF player. Players who want to spend 1k hours per cycle can now reap the rewards of both MG and COF or just stick to one faction. COF players can now use the auction house to fill in the nearly impossible RNG items so the leaderboards will be more accurate in player skill and not running an easy gearing auction house build. If it’s truly about “play style” why not provide more choices? Let the player choose if they want to grind out just 1 faction or both.

[rare ivy]

I don't think the game is really about "play style," anyone saying that is making an overstatement. There are 3 classes per character, that's not as much diversity as RPG games such as PoE, if you overlook the meta of both games.

I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing either way (two different games)...but this game currently isn't designed around a lot of flexibility in play style, imo. There's not really more than 20 different types of build types per class in this game, for example, unlike PoE.

Thus, the only thing left, in this similar regard, in terms of game design and community aspects is competitiveness....

However, imo, PoE's meta is so narrowed due to loads of powercreep and many layers of features synergizing together, that the diversity approach in that game seems futile. In other words, there are too many possibilities in PoE, especially for newer generations of gamers that don't want to fall into pitfalls.

[livid spruce]

Removing the rank requirements removes a choice, it doesn't add any choices at all

[rare ivy]

The whole point of the guild item tags is to avoid reselling items aka merchanting, too...yeah

So removing the guild item tags will enable free-player-trade, which is not what the devs and this community initially wanted.

[delicate berry]

There are major gaps in gearing as COF, prophecies do not target specific sub types or affixes, so the grind can be quite disheartening (especially when trying to slam).
funny though how that is exactly my critics from a week ago. and for this i got called out as wrong when pointing that issue out 🤔

as long as you aint able to select certain affix pools or the exact base items over CoF prophecy i.e really target farm not just the item type but the actual items you search it will never be good or better compared to MG where you can do exactly that. if you get it to drop thats a different story but at least theres a proper chance for you like that to not grind weeks for a single item that an MG player can buy from the player pool bazaar. if you find something thats a different story aswell but you can do it and probably find what you want/need. and as affix pools grow MG will become more and more mighty as the chance to get a certain affix that you cant influence with CoF on exalted prophecy gets smaller and smaller

[rare ivy]

this is why I think that both guilds ought to have their own ranking leaderboards, especially for group

some folks might like it like that, the long grind itself, because it's similar to Solo-Self Found game modes

[azure ice]

Provides the choice to chase items using optimal farming techniques in both COF or MG

[azure ice]

Some fine tuning will definitely need to happen

[azure ice]

This is the most painful part of COF. Anyone you finally finds a 3LP and t7 affix for build and fails the slam is just a terrible thing. It could take weeks or months of grinding to find the items if you’re even able to get them to drop.

[delicate berry]

yes and this for just a single item

[rare ivy]

yeah CoF is pretty rough for builds requiring a single (non-boss) unique drop, especially early on

[delicate berry]

and we aint even talking about LP4 super rare uniques here

getting to drop a single T7 that you have selected in loot filter is already hard enough even with exalted prophecy as the affix pool already is big and chances are small. and while you need to get to drop that stuff yourself MG players profit from the whole player pool

[azure ice]

Leaderboards are basically broadcasting bugs. Top builds are bugged af

[rare ivy]

to be fair, you don't need LP gear for this game; but non-LP uniques might be needed for certain builds; and just trying to get that one unique drop can be a nightmare

[delicate berry]

LP uniq are the sugar on the cake but they are nothing if the rest of your gear is bad because you dont get the affixes you need

[livid spruce]

That's not a choice though, like you say using the optimal method in each, just means you gotta swap to the right one

[rare ivy]

bugged as in "featured," jk lol...kek

[azure ice]

It’s the combination of taking 350-500k favor to dump in prophecies so you can get a full board before farming for a lootsplosion to hopefully get a couple of items so you can slam. Certain item subtypes and affixes are just nearly impossible to see as COF

[delicate berry]

and before someone come and say "then just craft your stuff" getting craft worthy stuff to drop that you cant influence aswell with any of the CoF prophecy i.e with 2 T5 affixes already that you want on drop so that you aint wasting FP on getting these and failing the whole item in the end before it can be done or T6/7 with enough forging potential so that you can complete to a T20/21/22 with the limited potential already is hard enough

[azure ice]

When they do drop you then fail the t7 slam on 3LP

[rare ivy]

yeh the CoF life is hard, hardcore...

[delicate berry]

this becomes even worse when you take into account that favor gain was nerfed in monos so that you cant farm big amounts of favor anymore

[azure ice]

Craft your own stuff means maybe you have enough forging potential so hopefully 2 affixes are what you want before item is bricked

[delicate berry]

the only method i know i saw in a youtube video with manipulating beacon stations in mono with enrage multiplier but doing that for favor gain is no real fun

for ~200k favor in ~1+ hours

[rare ivy]

If you think life is hard, come to CoF; if you think life is easy, go to MG, kek...

[delicate berry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dcon6vY_lDI

this one

you need 1k corruption and a certain setup

for the mono

idk if thats fun

[rare ivy]

lol that's some The First Descendant strats right there, lmfao

that's hilarious

time to bot that method, kek

yeah, they might need to fix/rework monoliths too

but after MG ofc

[broken spade]

I'm doing that strat.
i'm not fast, playing bleed hammerdin at c750 and getting 190-200k/h on a different map.
so it doesn't really have to be SUPER optimized.
play any build you like at any corruption you like on a map that isn't terrible, kill mobs fast and charge the beacon to 50% and restart.
Is it fun? I don't mind it.
Do orobyss prophesies in another timeline

ofc i don't think this is the best solution, if it's possible to rebalance exp for different things a bit so this strat isn't as viable it would be a good thing.
most people don't want the cheese method to be a lot better than playing "normally" just a little bit better perhaps.

[primal cave]

I think that bug was fixed in update 1.1.3

[delicate berry]

the whole thing is just plain out stupid that you have to do this in order to get proper favor gains that you can use for prophecy without grinding days

im sitting at ~120k per hour by just doing 600c monos normally considering the fact that a single prophecy can cost 13-14k thats a plain out joke

not to mention the 59k ones

[distant leaf]

That's all too sweaty for me. If an item requires grinding for several days to earn I'm just gonna play the game and never earn or I'm going to get lucky. I'm not gonna find some mind-numbing optimal farming strategy and then complain that favor gain isn't high enough

[delicate berry]

the tldr is you shouldnt need to sweat that hard to get acceptable favor regarding the costs of the prophecies

[tough pier]

"Acceptable favor" is entirely subjective

I feel like I get acceptable favor just playing normally

[delicate berry]

thats completely true that its subjective which is why i said it in combination to "regarding the costs of the prophecies" if one prophecy cost 12k and you get 120k per hour this means you grind favor for 10 hours to get just what? a few of them? because of the reroll aswell? and because of the trash conditions like arena inside? of that which you can probably use 2-3 times because of the lenses and then its not even guaranteed that you get what you want and what then? repeat the process? 10hs farming again? and btw this is from my perspective. the majority of players dont farm corruption about 100 or 200 maybe even 300 which means they get way less than what we are getting because they are either not using the proper methods or aint clearing echoes fast enough.

[distant leaf]

10 prophecies per hour seems totally and completely fine, to me

In fact, it's way more than I get, the way I play

[delicate berry]

10 prophecy where 98% of the drops are not what you want because you cant adjust them further is acceptable? 😆

for 1 hour of farming?

[distant leaf]

Yes? Absolutely? Like, first of all, that is only the case when you're gear is already nearly perfect. I've gotten SO MUCH good stuff from prophecies. Essentially all of my gear is from prophecies. Once you're at the very top end, though, it slows down. But it seems that some people can't tolerate that, and then turn their frustration towards the game and its systems. Why aren't prophecies giving me perfect gear?

Like...spending 120k favor/hour sounds tedious af, to me. I don't want more favor than that

But I'm not against systems that let us target bases or affixes with more specificity

in any case, yeah, what you're describing is sweaty af. You've reached the pinnacle of your character and are frustrated that you can't print the items you want. Go play MG, that's my suggestion

But in any case, more favor gain is not the answer to that problem

[delicate berry]

MG players dont have to go through this ordeal in order to get "perfect gear" just saying. when i proc a few ex prophecies where im especially target farming T7 affixes for legandary crafting 99% of the stuff is either not the affix i want in T7 or doesnt have T7 at all. now compare that again to MG. you dont need to farm favor for hours to get something of value out, you sell items to get the gold you want to buy the exact stuff you want, you dont need invest vast amounts of time to farm any gear upgrades as everything of value you need you can just buy with gold as you benefit from the whole playerbase and aint forced to find stuff all alone on your own. the "helping hand" of prophecy without any adjustments as it is right now is a joke compared to what you can do with the other faction and this is exactly where the adjustments need to take place.

[distant leaf]

The moment you compare to MG, I tune you out.

I don't want CoF to be MG. I don't want it to compare to MG. If you want to be able to get the exact gear you want every time, there's an easy solution. Go play MG.

[delicate berry]

who said i want CoF to be MG

i want a realistic chance to find stuff

[distant leaf]

You want it to be effectively the same, you want them to have the same strengths

"stuff"? What stuff?

[delicate berry]

if i want to grind for years again to find stuff i would have kept baal farming in D2 🤣

[distant leaf]

Really, this is going down a weird rabbit-hole that I don't care to argue

I wouldn't mind if I had an easier time getting a +4 disintegrate affix. I haven't gotten one the entire cycle, since 1.1 dropped

I have some 2LP relics ready to slam, but can't get the affix to drop

One big difference between you and I is that this doesn't upset me. I'm generally fine with it. My +3 relics are working just fine, this is a meager upgrade, all things considered

[delicate berry]

dont do it then. at least i know im not alone with this. you even yourself said when i put that thing first up that you have seen much more MG players with very good gear than on CoF base and now you argue with me about this xD w/e

[distant leaf]

Yeah, because I'm not trying to make CoF as good as MG? Is that not obvious to you?

Did I not make that clear?

But my complaint with your perspective is that you are asking for increased favor gain, like that's the solution to your problem, when it's so obviously not

[delicate berry]

the favor gain problem is a part aspect of the whole thing in problems CoF has

[distant leaf]

You don't like that you can't target things. So you want the ability to target more precisely with prophecies. Complaining that favor gain is too low is just the wrong thing to complain about

No, favor gain is absolutely and completely fine. I don't want to spend HALF MY TIME rerolling in the observatory

Sure, maybe the favor that you do gain should be higher value. But you shouldn't want MORE of it

Would you be pleased if you could get a prophecy that gave you the exact base and affix that you want?

[delicate berry]

CoF should similar mighty compared to MG in the perspective of finding stuff instead of buying from the bazaar. otherwise you will never have the same level playing field. you want to find stuff on your own? too bad you can only crawl through piles of loot trash for weeks until you maybe find 1 or 2 item that is suitable for crafting so you can make it useable. oh crafting failed? too bad repeat step 1. quite a part of fun is it? the favor gain and adjustments to the more specific selection of prophecies are just both necessary in order to lower the huge differences in the gear aquisition of people playing with MG its just the other way around of not needing to trade for your stuff. which is the whole thing CoF and MG are different. MG = you like trading CoF = you dont like trading. this original intention doesnt change at all even with said adjustments to CoF.

[distant leaf]

I basically find this....absurd.

CoF is crazy powerful. Did you play the game before item factions were added?

When 1.0 dropped, loot acquisition increased by a factor of 10, at least, for those who chose to play CoF. All of a sudden you could make so much gear that was only a dream before, and it was super, super easy to do. You're complaining about how difficult it it is to make loot that is SUPPOSED to be very, very, very difficult to make. Because you already made the god-like loot that CoF enabled for you with relatively little challenge.

[delicate berry]

yes i played 0.8 and 0.9.2 with a friend before factions were a thing. but back then the game wasnt finished and wasnt final so anything we could discuss about that has no value at all

[distant leaf]

I have absolutely no interest whatsoever in creating a level playing field between CoF and MG. And besides, MG has tons of people complaining that they can't find or afford the items that they want and they wish they had rolled CoF instead

lol. It highlights how this is all subjective

You're saying CoF sucks and just gives garbage

And it doesn't. It just gives tons of stuff, and the rare stuff remains rare

Like...whatever the system is, there will be 10% drops, 1% drops, 0.1% drops, 0.01% drops, etc.

And if they just multiply the drop rates by 100, then you get the 0.1% drops easily, and now it's 0.001% drops that seem elusive and you start complaining about

The items that you feel CoF should be giving for free just aren't meant to be easily obtainable

In short, you are entitled. You feel you are entitled to those items and you should be able to get them. But you aren't, and you can't, and so you complain about the systems that prevent you from having the item

I haven't gotten my +4 disintegrate yet this cycle. And that's fine with me. Maybe I'll get lucky and it will drop. And if it does, and I fail the slam, taht will be fine

I'm not going to come in and complain that EHG owes me a reworked LP and prophecy system that guarantees that I get a +4 disintegrate successfully slammed onto my desired unique every cycle

I find people who are currently farming 1000 corruption but are still upset that they can't get item upgrades fascinating. Item upgrades for WHAT?! You're farming 1000 corruption. What left is there for you to achieve?

recalibrate your expectations

[delicate berry]

how much experience do you exactly have by playing ARPG's ? do you only look at the PoE example or also consider other stuff into account like D2 , or grim dawn? D4 already set a very bad example in the past showering the player with the same unbelieveable piles of trash items that CoF provide over prophecy and players were not happy at all. and that theres no loot filter makes the thing even worse. here we have a loot filter but that doesnt change the fact that you get showered by trash you dont need and cant select anything to target farm properly as theres dozens of base items and affixes that you never use anyways. and then you even need to grind up hours to even get the prophecies you want which makes it even worse because the favor gains are quite small for the costs especially if you aint farming efficiently. 120k when one costs 12k making it ~10 if you get lucky with rerolling is a joke for target farming specific items with a hard loot filter on the same perspective a MG player can buy the same stuff with selected affixes for gold and without spending huge amounts of time to farm for it.

D2 had its own problems with the rune system making certain runes and runewords unbelieveable rare and almost impossible to obtain but because you had a player market you could get them anyways from others which means it was not such a big problem in the end. the cost only raised up for the super rares.

grim dawn even gave the ability for loot to drop considering your class making affixes on gear that your class benefits from more likely to drop and on top of it you could craft high end items with farming and recipes you could drop deterministicly from altars. yes you had to clear the altars several times as there were huge amount of recipes but in the end you got it and you knew before hand that at some point you get it.

all of this factors are completely missing here and this with a faction that is supposed to give you better drops so where are these kind of systems ?

[distant leaf]

blah blah blah. I already answered these questions

[delicate berry]

alright then

[distant leaf]

Yes, you want your items to be easier to drop. I understand

[delicate berry]

no. i want that the time i invest is paying out

thats a big difference

[distant leaf]

That's literally no difference whatseover. That's exactly the same thing

How would you like that time invested to pay out? Would it happen to be that you want the items that you want to drop...to get them to drop? Would you say you want to get those items more easily? Is that what you want out of your time?

[delicate berry]

no its not. if i get more favor in less amount of time and so get more chances this is the exact opposite of wasting my time as i can actually influence it into my favor. same goes for more ways to adjust prophecies. this is not "easier" its valueing my time i invest much better without forcing me to farm for several days until i get something good to drop that i might (that is the magic word here) be able to use

[delicate berry]

current favor gain could even stay if the prophecy cost would reduce so there are many ways to get this to work

[distant leaf]

That is easier. Dress it up however you want.

Like, you're giving flowery descriptions for how and why you want specific items to be easier to acquire

That doesn't change the fact that what you want is for those items to be easier to acquire

[delicate berry]

just hypothetically speaking: if there were adjustments to CoF to select affixes or base items. it would still be hard enough to obtain the item you want as theres several affixes that can still ruin the item and need a good amount of crafting so even then and especially when it comes to uniq where several uniques exist with different droprates for every base item its still hard enough to obtain what you want but not "unrealisticly" hard. everytime you drop something with CoF that might be useful triggers a bad feeling inside you when you realize that after a failed craft you need to farm what 500k favor again to get a similar item? so 5 hours of farming to get a chance of an chance for the item you want. and you say this is acceptable? again we aint speaking about super rare uniques here with 4LP which are meant to be rare. we are speaking about 1-2 LP uniques and T6/7 affixes. items that every build utilizes and are far away from the actual top end of aspirational gear.

[distant leaf]

In your hypothetical, would you say this would make that loot easier to acquire than it is now?

And regarding your later comments, no, it does not feel me with a bad feeling, because I do not have unreasonable expectations for what is achievable in this game

[delicate berry]

it is unreasonable to expect for something to drop that you can utilize in your build? O.o

[distant leaf]

"again we aint speaking about super rare uniques here with 4LP which are meant to be rare"

Have you ever considered that the items that require 5 hours of farming to get a chance at possible dropping are ALSO MEANT TO BE RARE?!?!

[distant leaf]

It totally depends on how good your gear currently is, now doesn't it?

My gear is currently very, very good. I have excellent pieces in almost every slot.

Yeah, If I could get T7 Ele dot with T5 Mana+regen and T5 lightning penetration on a gate staff, that would be a huge upgrade. In fact, it's what I'm currently hunting for with my favor

[delicate berry]

how rare are these items for MG again when you can buy them from a player based marked where thousands of players fill the bazaar ? while you are forced to find them as CoF on your own.

[distant leaf]

And if I get it, that's great. But it's an insanely rare combination, and I'm not expecting to get it. I don't feel entitled to the drop

Don't bring MG into it

[delicate berry]

why not xD

[distant leaf]

Because I'm not playing MG

[delicate berry]

seriously

[distant leaf]

If you want to play MG, go play MG

I'm playing CoF

[delicate berry]

you can only compare how fair the systems are when you compare both you know

[distant leaf]

Besides, I genuinely have no idea. How many T7 Ele dot Gate staves are currently listed?

[delicate berry]

you cant just say "eh lets forget trading completely" when its in the game and the rest of the game is adjusted with its droprates to compensate for that

[distant leaf]

lol, only if you're under the false pretense that they should be equal

[livid spruce]

Eh, that's the entire point of CoF. Different drop rates for people that don't want to trade. It doesn't affect CoF.

[distant leaf]

CoF droprates are 10x what they were pre-item factions. Pretending that trade has a detrimental affect on CoF is lunacy.

[livid spruce]

Yeah, and pre-factions, drops were already fine, too

[delicate berry]

the point of CoF is providing an alternative to trading for people who dont like to trade or are sick of it when coming from PoE. even EHG communicated that in the first announcements. CoF is not meant to be SSF completely yet you are locked out from the playerbase market which means you need to find all the stuff yourself

[winter shadow]

i think 10x is an understatement even

[livid spruce]

Yup, it's a refuge for people to be totally unaffected by trade

[distant leaf]

Exactly correct

[winter shadow]

getting something like 1LP red ring pre 1.0 is like a fever dream

now you can practically target farm it

[distant leaf]

And it's true, EHG did state they wanted the systems to be comparable. But I don't care about that. I'm not going to look at people who can print their gear and feel incomplete

[delicate berry]

well

if they wanted the systems to be comparable the adjustments i stated earlier need to be made and you know that

[livid spruce]

Yeah, I think the important part of that is comparable in terms of how they balance the game. Gameplay difficulty up to roughly 300c is the metric they use, anything beyond that is way overkill, basically nobody goes there.

Basically nobody even gets through 100c

[delicate berry]

wasnt the break even point 531 since the change of XP scaling?

[livid spruce]

Something in that ballpark, yes, doesn't have anything to do with balance though

[distant leaf]

Talking to MG folks, the current system already favors CoF for meta builds

[delicate berry]

yeah i mean i chose on purpose to farm on 550-600c because of that break even point as everything above is just hit by DR too hard

[distant leaf]

The idea that you can just go to the market and trivially buy anything you want is a bit if a misconception from CoF people

Some stuff is wildly expensive, other stuff just isn't there at all. And if it's not there, what do you do?

Try to farm it yourself? Now THATS a fever dream

[livid spruce]

Yeah, and at 600c, you've already more than beat the game, not sure what farming there is to do at that point

[delicate berry]

https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/cof-vs-mg/68497

There is no RNG with MG, so you always will be able to obtain whatever you need given enough time.

CoF you can end up searching for your desired item forever.

The original idea behind MG and CoF was to introduce a playstyle choice of obtaining items through trade or hunting. They are supposed to be designed as “balanced” as possible.

Either MG needs nerfs, or CoF needs buffs. Because they are not equal, MG is far stronger for every aspect then CoF. Item yield aka how much items drop is basically a useless metric. Item acquisition is way more important, aka how hard/long does it take to obtain an item.

this is literally the exact point. that guy deserves an medal for talking out what i try to

[livid spruce]

Maybe when the end game gets more fleshed out, talking about end game grinding would be more relevant

[livid spruce]

It's not true, btw. All the stuff on the bazaar comes from RNG.

[delicate berry]

i believe he means the RNG in finding the stuff you need

not the actual drop

for yourself

ofc someone needs to drop that item first

[livid spruce]

Maybe so, but you're talking about trying to get items that are so rare, they could very likely just never appear on the bazaar

[delicate berry]

but considering that you can benefit from hundreds or even thousands of players compared to you playing CoF as single and having only your own drops that difference is huge

[livid spruce]

For reasonably obtainable items, both factions do plenty fine and are both fun to play

beyond that and it gets sketchy for both factions

especially in low volume cycles like this one (for MG)

[delicate berry]

i stated an example of me trying to find an idol i wanted at the very start of this discussion about CoF. the example was me finding an idol with 2 specific affixes by running a lot of prophecies for 10 hours for almost one full week. i got 1. after i were curious for MG i saw that same idol and not just one several with better stats than what i dropped for 8mil gold and this in legacy. so how "rare" are specific idols with 2 stats you want if you can find them plenty in the MG ? if we talking about the super rares that is true. but is T6 considered super rare? is T7 considered super rare? especially compared to the actual super rares like uniques with LP above 2?

[distant leaf]

Lol, go search for T7 ele dot on a gate staff in MG. There arent any. And that's not even a meta item!

This is just simply not true. It's a falsehood that CoF players believe who complain about how weak CoF is. That the bazaar is filled with infinite items that are all affordable

[delicate berry]

at some point there will be one in the MG the only thing here for you is waiting until someone puts one inside and this will happen and for this you dont even need to farm aside from gold that you will most likely have anyways at this point.
so how is the CoF perspective for this? you do the prophecy for staffs right? you farm up 200k favor in 2-3 hours to spend on exstaff prophecy. you clear the prophecy and then what? you maybe find one that you can maybe use if the craft doesnt fail? and then you even go through the slam and fail the T7 affix. and this is fun for you? this is no frustration? really? 🤔

[winter shadow]

dude really think in MG he can just get enough gold and everything he want just materialize out of thin air and he just need to click buy it

can't get easier than that

[delicate berry]

I switched from CoF rank 9 to MG (currently rank 7) and the difference is already enormous. I can’t buy everything in MG yet, but within a few hours I was able to equip my toon better in MG than I could in CoF. 99% of what dropped for me during CoF was simply not worth using. In MG I can search for specific items and get the item safely without doing 1000 runs.
cough from the same forum post btw

[cinder marsh]

yeah this just sounds like you should go play MG like these guys have been telling you

[delicate berry]

but i dislike trading. is it a solution to force players that like to find stuff themselves into MG when they want the same level playing field for CoF that MG provides just the other way around without trading? huh?

[stable hamlet]

Just get gud

[livid spruce]

You said you are running 600c, right? I'm assuming you did that on a CF character, so seems to me like you got plenty of character power, no need to trade.

[distant leaf]

Yes, MG is more powerful than CoF for most builds. But ultimately, you just have unreasonable gear expectations that trade can realize because trade is generally busted

I do not want the game to be as easy as trade makes it

[delicate berry]

whats a CF character? character found? like shared stash and something? yes. i had a char from 0.9.2 and started new with the stash stuff i had back then. yet i had to find everything again as i switched builds and wanted to try something new. its true that i got plenty of character power. but the thing in ARPG's is to get better. i have still yet to find a desired base item with +3 skill i.e a T6 one for example. what im saying is even without everything T7 im still far away to where i should be even by clearing out 600c. the thing in question is getting better rolled stuff. but because you are still RNG dependant which you just aint when you play MG as you can search for specific items everything you can do is do prophecy with the hope for that something drops that might have higher rolls and can be crafted on to make it an replacement for what you already have. and especially in this perspective CoF lacks every value. but because you are locked into your stuff you cant just switch factions without loosing a majority of your gear and changing your complete playstyle and then on top of it you dislike trading. thats the situation i find myself in right now which made me state this.

[livid spruce]

CF = Circle of Fortune when I'm too lazy to include the o

[delicate berry]

ah

yes

i choose CoF right from the start

as im sick of my trading experiences in other ARPG's

[livid spruce]

Yeah, that's what originally drew me to LE. Compared to then (pre-factions), the game was very accessible and drops were not bad at all, now we have even higher drops and a lot of stuff is accessible that wasn't before (like high LP and good T7 stuff).

There's still chase stuff, of course, I think maybe the game doesn't communicate what is and is not reasonable very well

[delicate berry]

thing is if you aint able to influence what you are searching for exactly item quantity increases make no sense and finding the right stuff becomes a lottery win even when not talking about the high end stuff. what matters is the time you need and the stuff you need to do in order to aquire said item.

and this becomes even worse as more items and affixes are introduced into the game

as the pool gets bigger and bigger

[livid spruce]

But you are talking about the high end stuff

[delicate berry]

T6 is high end stuff?

[livid spruce]

T6 of a very rare affix on the base you want with 3-4 other good affixes definitely can be high end

[delicate berry]

what xD

even in 0.9.2 beta i got plenty of T6 affixes so how can they be considered rare now with even the factions and adjustments from 1.0 and quantity increases?

[livid spruce]

This is what people mean when they say unrealistic expectations

"plenty of T6" is very different from "a specific T6 on a specific item with perfect other stats"

[delicate berry]

exactly

so they are not rare

the problem is getting the affix you want

and this is where CoF should shine

[livid spruce]

Or maybe this is where your expectations are too high

[delicate berry]

perfect other stats i.e t5s isnt completely necessary as long as you are able to craft your way around it and even with failures included the need for the other stats needing to be at least in a certain tier range is to not waste FP on other stuff making yourself impossible to reach T21 in the end and this on several items.

[delicate berry]

thing is. even if MG has lower drop rates for higher tiers because of the CoF buffs you can still find them over the search function if anyone dropped one and stated it inside making yourself able to get it if you have the gold for it. you dont need to search piles of undesireable T6 base items you dont need. so in the end you get what you want at least unlike CoF where you need to search through piles of trash for weeks to get one item to be able to craft on. i dont know if the expections are to high when i want to compare both factions as they really should work on the same level playing field and especially when EHG stated that they shall be "balanced".

[livid spruce]

I'm factoring in crafting RNG

[delicate berry]

any other way is still playing with the lottery of FP i dont know if that is the more desireable approach ?

[livid spruce]

They definitely have never said they will be balanced, btw

[delicate berry]

they are supposed to be designed as “balanced” as possible though i believe

[livid spruce]

#👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message

They don't want them to be TOO far apart, but that's super subjective

[delicate berry]

well yes. it would just make no sense to me why you should make a faction that can outscale the other. so they should be at least on some sort of same level playing field. thats why i said CoF should reflect the possibility of being able to buy items from a large player pool in its buffs or prophecies

[livid spruce]

Either way, the game gave plenty of drops to be enjoyable pre-factions, gives even more drops now, so it's still enjoyable. To be totally honest, I feel like CF drops too much stuff as it is, I'd rather it dramatically scaled back the piles that drop from prophecies and let them target a little better.

Trade has no effect on you if you play CF outside of psychological effects

[delicate berry]

but btw nerfing favor gain is quite the way in the opposite direction in order to lower the differences between "MG > CoF" as mike stated there

[livid spruce]

They buffed favor gain for 99.99% of players

and made the ranks cap out a lot sooner

[delicate berry]

you punish the .01% of the players that aint playing on ~300c just to buff the 99.99% of the players that aint ready yet to deal with 300c and after that what? at some point they will reach that aswell and face the same problem as the .01% ones is that a solution ?

[livid spruce]

The real punishment was playing the game at 1000c and repeating the same echo over and over

game devs goals are not the same as yours

[delicate berry]

what different is it now when you are forced to do beacon echoes with certain modifiers over and over to get out even less favor than it was before ?

[livid spruce]

You can count on the beacon thing going away, hopefully sooner rather than later

[delicate berry]

well that would be just another nail in the coffin for CoF players then

[livid spruce]

No, it would affect almost nobody, and overall the game will be more fun

[delicate berry]

at least as long as there are no other adjustments made

[livid spruce]

who knows what other changes they may decide to make with it

[delicate berry]

it would. as when the break even point is at 531c and lots of people playing 100 or 200 max which was buffed in their favor they still get way less favor compared to 531c players to which they travel aswell at some point. so by nerfing that even further to disallow these farming strategies the overall favor gain even for lower end players gets lower aswell once they reach a certain c which ultimately results in less prophecys to do. so what are the alternatives? keep farming on 100 or 200c for even less favor because everything above is nerfed into the ground?

[livid spruce]

I think you're overestimating how many people do the beacon thing, and also how much anyone wants to even continue playing the game if they do the beacon thing.

[delicate berry]

no i dont. i just believe that people are intelligent enough to find out what the best farms are as were not living in D2 time where videos and analysis didnt exist to point that out

and once they realize that they will think about it

[livid spruce]

and removing the beacon thing doesn't nerf anything for people playing the game normally

[delicate berry]

so people above 531c aint playing the game normally? xD

[livid spruce]

EHG will continue to tweak the factions as time goes on, removing the beacon thing is pretty important for the health of the game

[livid spruce]

People doing beacon farming

[delicate berry]

dont forget that "the beacon thing" emerged because of the nerfs earlier the stuff is used to lower the pain from the massive nerf

[livid spruce]

No, it didn't emerge because of that, it emerged because players like to optimize the fun out of the game

[delicate berry]

well yes thats literally the same though? optimizing is part of ARPG's if you nerf that into the ground what else is there

[livid spruce]

it has been around since roughly when factions were implemented

[livid spruce]

No? One is a reaction, the other is just it being an ARPG

People didn't find and use this method to fight nerfs, they found and use it because they want to be optimal

[delicate berry]

thing is before the nerfs beacons were not the most effective way to farm for favor. so that the beacon thing emerged because of the nerfs is actually correct.

[livid spruce]

and when optimal isn't fun, it's a game design problem that the game devs will solve

[delicate berry]

and considering that is it more fun to do more for less?

[livid spruce]

And what specific changes caused that?

[distant leaf]

I'm so glad that EHG doesn't bow to players whose only idea is fun is how quickly they can get big numbers to appear

[livid spruce]

Yeah, like if that was what's fun, most fun would be max level and all perfect gear on character creation

[delicate berry]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_a3HEy9eu4 this was used before the nerfs to EXP gain

[livid spruce]

No, literally not at all. That didn't even exist until 1.1 which is the same patch they nerfed xp.

[delicate berry]

well yeah i can only speak from that perspective. i know that before the corruption scalings were much different and people farmed favor in 3k corruption and more

[livid spruce]

Yeah, it was beacon farming in high corruption. The boss thing only popped up for a little while at the start of 1.1 when it became possible, and was easier for the devs to delete. Beacon farming is a bit harder of a thing to solve, so it hasn't been removed yet.

[delicate berry]

but neither of the methods is any fun

[livid spruce]

Right

[delicate berry]

why not just let it as it was or adjust gains

dont push people into 3k corruption

dont push people into beacon farming

dont push people into boss farming

all just for favor

[winter shadow]

yeah why making ppl farming for items right

[livid spruce]

Well, they are going to remove the unfun farm method, then there's no pushing them into beacon farming. They removed the boss farm, so no pushing there. They will not undo the high corruption xp nerfs because that was what was pushing people into 3kc+

[winter shadow]

just make a button that can create any items with any desired affixes

just like in offline mod

[livid spruce]

Like all those things you don't want them to push people into are exactly what their changes so far have been for
They don't want to push people into those things, either

[winter shadow]

reward 30s of clicking with a sweet perfect item

totally worth the time and effort

[delicate berry]

thats the MG perspective you describing here btw : )

[delicate berry]

dont get me wrong. its good when unfun farming methods getting removed BUT in exchange there should be added actual fun methods and with that i mean not just removing stuff but letting the rest stay as it is

[winter shadow]

i get what you're saying with this
but it's not a simple problem when removing "unfun" optimization like that

becuase you can destroy the game's depth doing it

imo in a perfect ideal world

they will make class/build balance combines with dungeon/monolith(farming method)

to make builds that can farm 1 or few things easier having hard time doing other contents

and gear from different contents have relatively equal value

that way ppl can still sweatily optimize whatever they want

and still won't defeat the "fun""

but i guess that's pretty impossible to achieve 🤷🏽‍♂️

or at least in a reasonable time

[livid spruce]

Well, maybe, but maybe not. I think it's fun as-is without beacon farming, so no need to replace it with something. They will most likely make tweaks anyway.

[livid spruce]

Yeah, tbf "fun" is not a simple concept anyway

[winter shadow]

that's why it's in double quote

for me that kind of optimizing over the top is the fun

[delicate berry]

so you are saying "just live with inferior methods" ? idk. i never tried beacon farming up today as i know of course that it wont stay anyways but i would wish for not destroying anything further

[winter shadow]

but i won't shove it into other's mouth and make them agree with me

[delicate berry]

the buff to the lower end is okay. i just dont get why you needed to nerf the other side instead of reworking it somehow to not make it necessary to push that far but for the same gain

[livid spruce]

The difficult balance is allowing people to optimize really well, but then still have fun when doing it. We probably all have different ideas of fun, but I think most people will agree beacon farming isn't it

[winter shadow]

i agree too

i find the reward the fun part

not the process

for example if i had to choose to beacon farm for 5 hours

or doing a really freaking hard dungeon with multiple stage/mechanics

for 5 hrs

to get the same reward

i'd choose the 2nd option in a heartbeat

if you know what i mean

[livid spruce]

If I ever had to do arena for 5 hours straight, I would just not open the game 😂

[winter shadow]

atm the game is still lacking contents/balance for that

[delicate berry]

what i did was making suggestions just to get showered with a pile of "you are dumb and everything is okay" instead of thinking a little or comparing the actual systems. call outs like "dont compare MG to CoF" or "CoF = SSF" got mentioned several times despite the fact that CoF |= SSF which devs stated several times and MG and CoF should be on an almost equal level as they exclude each other and so should only offer playstyle choices. as its intent was to allow trade without making finding loot pointless. and when even devs sad if one playstyle is not keeping up with the other, they will buff/change them.. not perfectly but at least to some sort then im quite right.

[winter shadow]

yeah imagine doing an arena run for 10 hrs one day, then decided to try again the next day, came 5 waves close to beating my own record, then died to a freaking wave completed bug

couldnt be me

havent touched arena ever since

[distant leaf]

Because they don't feel like anyone should feel like they're missing out if they're not playing in 1000c. I feel like this is so obvious

This would force everyone into meta build

[delicate berry]

this is completely acceptable as said dont get me wrong. it just makes no sense to me why you would buff one side while nerfing the other side when its clear that at some point the one side will reach the other side aswell

so literally you forcing everybody to play in the range you decide for them

[distant leaf]

I don't know what you're talking about. They nerfed high corruption farming because it was out of bounds for what they wanted players to be pressured to achieve. No compensation is needed.

[delicate berry]

really? no compensation is needed? how do players reach an almost equal level as before now? they removed high corruption farming without giving an alternative to it

[distant leaf]

Why would they need to? Why should they?

[delicate berry]

if they dont want people to push 3k corruption then make it more desireable to farm on lower corruption how about that instead?

[livid spruce]

That's the point of balancing though, if they just adjusted everything equally it wouldn't have made any change at all, basically

[distant leaf]

Lol. What?!

It is rewarding to farm at 300c. Just not as rewarding as you'd like

Entitled, etc.

[delicate berry]

thats literally the PoE approach. you nerf an unique into the ground without changing all the uniques and force peoples to deal with it because you decided the nerf was necessary but without compensating for it lol

[winter shadow]

idk why this dude cannot understand the 1 single simple fact that you CANNOT balance non-trade with trade

becuase trade's efficiency is not a CONSTANT

[livid spruce]

That's what they did by reducing the favor bonus at 3kc and buffing the favor bonus at 300c

[winter shadow]

it depends on the population

on 1.0 launch you have 100k ppl farming

2 months after that you have 2000 at best

how do you balance that? make COF droprate 1000x better at season launch then drop it down to 10x at end?

[delicate berry]

give people another row of lenses to allow for juicing up certain reward types while continuing to exclude content you don’t do from your prophecies.
also a couple of tiers really need some rework. set items are not useful. doubling your rewards is only good if you need two copies of the same base or affix since it is legit just the same drop x2 rather than twice as many rolls on the drop table. and BOOM CoF is better balanced towards MG where you can do all what i just stated already. is that really so hard?

[distant leaf]

I WANT BUFFS GIVE ME BUFFS

[winter shadow]

that's not balancing lol, that's asking for more

what do you do if it gets to the point that COF is actually much better than MG due to noone playing anymore?

[delicate berry]

really? that is not balancing when you want adjustments to your faction? adjustments that MG already profits from on a wide ranged scale ?

which is the exact reason why MG is more powerful ?

[hushed crest]

i will say i'm playing CoF and trying to get one specific unique pair of gloves with 2lp and i'm ready to stop

where as in MG i could just buy them

i have a million gold with nothing to spend on

i've been at this for days

[distant leaf]

I do wish there were better gold sinks in CoF!

[winter shadow]

well i'm gonna stop here, no point arguing with deaf ear

[distant leaf]

Yeah, we're just arguing with a wall, and it's pointless. They want buffs, they want to be as strong as MG in every situation, They want compensation buffs for every degenerate farming strategy that is discovered, etc. etc.

[livid spruce]

fyi, they changed the double rewards to actually be double quantity rather than duplicated rewards

[winter shadow]

and what's stopping you from playing MG?

[hushed crest]

i will next time

[winter shadow]

that's the point

if you're the kind of ppl who wants to be able to buy stuff with gold, and you chose COF at the start

[delicate berry]

at least thats some sign of light then

[winter shadow]

then that's on you

[distant leaf]

I think it's funny how many people switch from CoF to MG to discover that it's not so rosy and you can't just trivially print the items you want

[hushed crest]

it's not "on me", i've never played this game before lmao

[distant leaf]

You...didn't know that?

That change is like...what, 4 months old at this point?

[winter shadow]

next season when you play MG you'll get to one point where you can't just buy stuff with gold anymore, and you'll feel the miserable droprate of non-COF

then you'll miss COF

it's not what's better, it's about what you prefer and not being a double standard

[livid spruce]

Yeah, they'll keep tweaking stuff. And they do listen to #1210281911872786482 and #1210282176680169562. If you come up with a good way to improve CF, maybe they'll implement it - or something inspired by it, at least.

[winter shadow]

"i find the joy in finding stuff by myself"
"oh no why can't i buy things with my hard earned gold"

[delicate berry]

im playing for ~4 weeks again. i didnt really dig into the factions until my post here.

[hushed crest]

bruh i just stepped in here to offer another perspective, step off

i'm not a part of your little argument

[winter shadow]

im not trying to offend you if that's what you're feeling

and your perspective is not really something new either

there are things that COF players might want from MG

and there are thigns MG players might want from COF

that's what im tryna say

you made a choice and you live with it

cant have good stuff from both world, else there's no point in splitting in the first place

and remember, trading was never EHG's intention in the first place

it was added due to a poll

from players

[hushed crest]

i wonder if they ever considered just giving people both

CoF and MG, all at once

[winter shadow]

then youér just asking for an easier game

[azure ice]

Only solution imo

[hushed crest]

there's a difference between "easier" and "less grindy"

[livid spruce]

Well, that's not quite right - the bazaar was part of their KS pitch.

[hushed crest]

i'd like to make progress some day

[winter shadow]

then what was the poll for?