⭕┃circle-of-fortune

[signal iris]

1mob is equivalent to 100k favor in cycle2 since theres no reset in corruption lvls

[frosty pelican]

Assuming you can still kill your 8k corruption mobs

Lol

[wraith hazel]

And I say it again. Yeah it is pain, but for me personally not even close to the pain to need to trade to be halfway competitive!
CoF for life!

Not that I see myself as super competitive player, but guess I can't call me casual anymore

Still looking forward for more filter options ofc!

[frosty pelican]

I wouldn't trade it for MG either, I agree

[signal iris]

i can reset the map to reroll to a worm/cockroach a one hp mob

[frosty pelican]

That's likely less efficient favor farm than just doing 1k corr normally I imagine

I assume you are trolling me though lol

[limber minnow]

If I couldn’t filter long named items like two handed uniques. To just the base types. I would’ve had a real bad time on loot explosions.

[wraith hazel]

Yeah finding that option changed my life 🙂

[signal iris]

idk what ehg going to do in no corruption reset,,i just discovered 1 RM on yt few days ago stopped at 7200c xD

[limber minnow]

Are you farming more favor than my 3kc 950k favor/hr now?

[signal iris]

nope, coz i dont have a geared sentinel on my corruption xD

on arena echo its only 20k favor per 3mins lol on my rm

[wraith hazel]

Damn I would love to see that 🙂

[limber minnow]

I posted a 700k+ video on my old setup when I was still learning it. I might post a video today for people.

[frosty pelican]

I believe I did 800k on 3k corr doing ritual lake iirc just killing rares. I'm pretty sure your build could do 1M+ with that strategy

[signal iris]

950k/hr favor but spending maybe 2hrs rerolling demn,,,i hope theres faster method

[frosty pelican]

@limber minnow is your rare kill speed good or naw?

[limber minnow]

If rare is alone near 1 shot. If in a pack of 5 or more 1 shot at 3kc

[signal iris]

yeah i thnk 3k is the sweetspot for rm for killing rares,,,in 8k rares are forever to kill on rm xD

[wraith hazel]

I'd watch it.

I mean I would never farm at that rate, I have some casual-player leftovers 😄
But I would be curious to see and could most probably learn a lot

[frosty pelican]

Try the ritual lake strat then. It's wide open and just a bunch of rares.

[limber minnow]

I’ll post some raw footage after work today. And you can tell me what you think. I have never tried your strat so could t say

Nah I’m burnt out. I just wanna log in for an arena run and this and wait for cycle 2.

[wraith hazel]

I have never even tried to farm 1h hardcore and see what it brings. But I will give it a test also @frosty pelican

[frosty pelican]

https://youtu.be/gQE4dDZg94A ah I only did 400k with this actually. My single target was low though. I think double is possible

[limber minnow]

I haven’t pushed corruption buut … I don’t see my VK going any slower clears until like 5k. Crazy to think what the favor/hr could’ve been. I took a month break mid cycle and was new to the game at 1.0. Definitely not efficient til the end.

[wraith hazel]

You can't push 1 char straight for 4 months, please for the reasons of sanity 😄

[limber minnow]

Ah ya I know this map. It was worse on my VK runs. Pretty hard to beat imperial war camp with my setup because of how the grouping works as a mostly melee heavy build.

[signal iris]

damn i hate these immortal eyes,,,xD

[signal iris]

too bad ur in solo mode...i could have bring u to my corr to check for it...I brought some EU players to farm on arena echo and they are very happy lol

[limber minnow]

I’ll be multiplayer next cycle. Largely for this reason 🙂

[signal iris]

and the other night, an obsidian dropped and i gave my 3lp fotm to him xD,,,idk the result of his slam, its for his marksman

[limber minnow]

For those interested I booted up a stream for my VK arena run. Going for 2k+waves. Just starting. Link in #🔴┃livestream-shoutout @wraith hazel @fresh pivot

[karmic scarab]

Whats up woth the immortal eye prophecy? Ive killed so many of them and it wont complete

[fresh pivot]

jeez luise 4am push xD

[limber minnow]

As is tradition lol

[pine cypress]

can u send a planner link for your build? i want to play with this before new cycle

[frosty pelican]

@pine cypress have several alternate versions here; https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=1513029757#gid=1513029757

and different guides / techs you can try on my youtube, including the boss stunlock tech

[pine cypress]

ty

[lilac hound]

Circle of Fortune Ranks 1.1

Rank 1: Enemies have 35% chance of dropping twice as many items (Unchanged) Rank 2: 45% chance for Runes of Ascendance to be preserved when used on an item that requires at least Circle of Fortune Rank 1 (Unchanged) Rank 3: Whenever an Idol Drops, there is a 25% chance for two more to drop at the same time (Unchanged) Rank 4: When a Set item would drop, the whole set drops instead (Previously Rank 9) Rank 5: 35% chance for double item rewards from Monolith Echoes (Unchanged) Rank 6: Affixes are 50% more likely to be Exalted (Previously Rank 4) Rank 7: Exiled Mages drop twice as many experimental items (New) Rank 8: Uniques are twice as likely to have Legendary Potential (Previously Rank 6) Rank 9: T7 Affixes are twice as common (Previously Rank 7) Rank 10: Bosses have 150% increased drop rate for any specific rewards they have (New) ‘Specific Rewards’ refers to any items dropped by that Boss, for example Ravenous Void dropped by The Husk of Elder Gaspar ‘Bosses’ applies to all unique enemies that display a boss health bar. Rank 11: Items that would drop as Rare have 25% chance of becoming Exalted (Previously Rank 8) Rank 12: Prophecies grant twice as many items (Previously Rank 10 - Changed, formerly “Items from Prophecies are duplicated”) No longer duplicates the actual granted reward, but instead considers as if you had the prophecy itself twice, meaning it can roll different Uniques, for example.

I don't see any LP2+ chance increase

[hazy elm]

@frosty pelican thoughts on this? "However experience now scales less with corruption than it did at high corruption values and Favor gain is based on experience gain."

[frosty pelican]

It's basically exactly what I had been suggesting all along but whether or not this is good ultimately depends on how heavily nerfed the corr favor scaling is. Now that base xp is higher and corr xp is lower there is a breakeven point when comparing 1.0 to 1.1 - if that point is say 300 I think CoF will be in a significantly worse spot for end game competitiveness vs MG, but better vs 1.0 for most other scenarios

[next cape]

Rank 12 change is garbage

[hazy elm]

rank 12 big nerfs imo

[frosty pelican]

It does say "at extremely high corruption" it will be lower to be fair. My guess is that they mean 1k ish

[lilac hound]

It seems like most changes gravitate towards more slam chances using exhulteds... the problem is the other side of this equasion

LP3 and LP4 items, which have been a bit of a struggle with CoF

I would have imagined some "catch up compensation" system would exist to enable more of those in ranks 9+, im also aware of some of the LP changes coming to crafting

[frosty pelican]

I actually think rank 12 is a buff

Sure you don't get your doubles but it reduces the variability of outcomes

On average you'll get what you want twice as often but with half quantity

[hazy elm]

i dont think so, there are items that are likely to drop 1 time per cycle at most, for those items its a nerf

[lilac hound]

The new T10 seems like a nice time saver

[hazy elm]

cause previously if you dropped those kind of items at least they were duplicated

now u dont have that garantee and u either get 1 or none

[frosty pelican]

Anything that was to drop once at most would now expect to drop twice.

Would you rather have 1 in 1 million chance to win 100m$ or 1 in 500k chance to win 50m$.

[lilac hound]

This is good for earlier game and for alt farming

Im just not sure this is "T12 worthy"

[frosty pelican]

I think players having a smaller chance to win something rather than the bigger all or nothing will cause excitement to happen more often. It feels bad initially but I think it's fine

[lilac hound]

Well, the good news is that we can now lootfilter LP

So some time is saved from all those extra drops

[frosty pelican]

Yes! The problem is we can't filter by specific unique so we still need many many rules with item type and level req

And the cap of rule still seems to be 74

75*

[lilac hound]

Filter by item name would be amazing

[frosty pelican]

I think a checklist like we have for affixes would be s tier. Or a tier level like poe filters

[jolly spire]

i'm fine with no dupes
now i don't have to bother with "where's the dupe?"

[hazy elm]

while statistically its true, previously if you dropped bis double exalted on a right base you had a duplicate that you could back up if crafting/slam failed. and now even though you will have double chances of getting same item, the rolls/bases etc matter, maybe im wrong tho

[frosty pelican]

Tbh "where's the dupe" was my favorite part of that perk, it made me much less likely to miss an item of value in a giant pile

Since I knew there was another for certain

[frosty pelican]

On paper it's the same, the only difference is that the first desired outcome is expected to come sooner. Say you want a 4LP of a certain unique, that's 2x more likely to happen now. Do you need 2 of them? Probably not unless dual wield or ring

A lot of times you only need one of a certain thing, or your first attempt is a success, in those cases the dupe is a pure waste imo. Give me more rolls

This QoL post is an absolute banger

[fresh pivot]

cof has seen some upgrades i guess and merchants 12 ranks are more of a meme topic xD they could have just let it be 10 ranks so its less words for the same "abillties" 😄

[hallow plume]

it's a wash more than anything yeah if you would have seen the big item you get 2 vs now you're twice as likely to get that item because you're doubling the amount of items you roll, you might not get the exact items like you do now but you will should get roughly the same amount of good items they just won't be carbon copies.

[urban turtle]

Thank you

[fresh pivot]

so if i say arbitrary number in the first month of 1.0 merchants was 10 in power and cof was 9 in power now its more like merchant is a 7 in power and cof a 12 in power ^^ gg to cof i think i gotta ditch trade

[frosty pelican]

In first month MG was waaaaay above CoF, the top CoF players only started to catch up once they climbed corruption and pumped hundreds of thousands of favor per hour. It took me hundreds of hours for my FC to be on par with the early MG min maxers

[copper nest]

now that corrutpion isnt linked to favour i think mg is the meta

unless we get proved otherwise

[frosty pelican]

CoF does seem stronger now later for acquiring some previously pain point items, but the corruption favor changes might bring CoF down for ultra end game min max

[copper nest]

yep

[frosty pelican]

It's probably fine for the health of the game though. We don't need to balance around the 0.0001%

[hidden temple]

i will probably go CoF again. now to see which class to play

[limber minnow]

I suppose we will find out soon how the experience changes at higher corruption look like.

definitely better for most the player base tho

[fresh pivot]

yep

[regal knoll]

They nerfed us T_T

[regal knoll]

I understand about 4lp. But 4lp isn't a not a normal parameter. 2-3 lp are. Before we could have few chances to slam on uniques. Now we will have only 1. With exalted items, the same. If we find 2x the same exalted item, we had 2x chance to craft it. Now we don't.

[midnight pollen]

Before, you have AABBCC now you have BCABAC. But, you need only one item. So, in the most of case, this is better.

[regal knoll]

Most cases = lp4?

[frosty pelican]

That's not true though, your chance to get a unique with the slam you want is the same. If anything this makes it happen faster on average

[regal knoll]

As exalted, it have 0 argument to be better

And unique with lp, lp4 would be enough, if not ring or dual wield

[regal knoll]

How come is the same if we have 2 times the chance?

[frosty pelican]

Okay think about it like this, say you are rolling a dice, with old system if you land on 6 you win 100$. New system if you land on 5 or 6 you win 50$

Over a large sample the outcome is the same, except second scenario your distribution of outcomes is smaller over a given number of trials

Also, in the case where you only need 50$ to do what you want, you will complete your rolls twice as fast with new method on average.

Say you want a 2LP prismatic gaze. With old system it could take 3 million favor on average to drop 2. New system it would be 1 per 1.5 million favor. If you get it on the first try, 3rd try, 5th try, etc you just saved yourself 1.5 million favor on average.

If you don't, it's still the same.

[real palm]

getting stats you want on unique will be more frustrating for sure

[limber minnow]

so what youre saying is CoF is the best ever

[fresh pivot]

probably 😄

[real palm]

instead of 2 chances you will have 1

[frosty pelican]

I'm confident people will be frustrated, but it will be purely emotional and not actually based on math

A smaller jackpot feels like a bigger nerf than more frequent jackpots feel like a buff

[real palm]

also whats the point of 150% buff for boss drops, you always get item from boss, not item you want but you always drop something

if both items increase in drop rate you will end with same drop like before but with extra rank

xd

[midnight pollen]

Yes, but we will have our unique before even thought you miss your legendary

[frosty pelican]

I think there are separate drop pools no?

Like 1 of item a, b, c can drop, and 12% chance of item d

[regal knoll]

But what if the first slam failed? You could try again, even if you failed again you had another try. Idk if I'm not picking your htinking on this, but my brain tells me as a target farm, what usually fortuna is, it sounds like a nerf.

Like, I know Frozen is smater than me, I just don't see how it is not a nerf if we can't try the same 2ice.

[real palm]

no idea, i dont have any data of that but usually you just get 1 item so dunno if that change much

[limber minnow]

ya i was hoping it would be 150% LP chance tbh.

[frosty pelican]

By the time the old system has spent the 3 million favor on average the new system has too amd also has dropped 2 of the item

[limber minnow]

although farming wands on exiled mages will be easier

[regal knoll]

But thats more rng than before, no?

[frosty pelican]

More individual rolls reduces distribution of outcomes

It's law of large numbers

[midnight pollen]

No, the variance will reduce.

[regal knoll]

I see, hope you gusy are right.

The favor farm kinda got me sad, when I have few chars in 1k+ corruption

Hope the less favor farm isn't much of a difference

[real palm]

if they make pushing corruption harder and no more 2k+ then its w/e

[regal knoll]

But boss drop got me excited to target farm for some builds

[limber minnow]

Surely my 900k+ favor/hr setup will still work

[regal knoll]

Share, please xD

[frosty pelican]

I think +150% boss drops is same as +150% LP no?

[real palm]

no

[frosty pelican]

Or did you mean LP ingeneral anywhere

[fresh pivot]

its 15 dollar on his onlyfans page 😄

[frosty pelican]

Wait no

[regal knoll]

AHAHAHAHAHAHA

[limber minnow]

no, cause some bosses have high drop chance

[fresh pivot]

devs said its counted like killing 2.5 bosses

[regal knoll]

Guys, gotta go, just hope we get better

[fresh pivot]

or that person in the ask dev channel

[regal knoll]

Thanks for all infos and opinions!

[frosty pelican]

My assumption is that multiple would drop in that case

[regal knoll]

Specially you, Frozen ❤️

[frosty pelican]

Otherwise the cof perk sucks for those items

[fresh pivot]

😄 im not always sure who is a dev if its not mike who responds

[limber minnow]

ohh, if thts the case then we are good

[frosty pelican]

You could be right but that would be bad if so

Common items with low LP chance would be pain

[limber minnow]

pretty much just good for mad alchemist ladle.

[frosty pelican]

Curious if they fix the lakeside reset

For mage farm

[limber minnow]

do boss specific uniques share the same loot table when rolling? Like the common stuff drops before heart on dragon boss?

[frosty pelican]

I think some items share a loot table and others not

Like some mutually exclusive

But I could be wrong

[limber minnow]

well lets hope thats not the case

[fresh pivot]

i would predict no 😄 why would someone nerf cof farms

[regal knoll]

I think Sierpin's gonna be good with FG next cycle.

Any1 wanna theory about 1k+ corruption favor nerf xD?

[fresh pivot]

Devs said you shouldn’t be able to go to 1k corruption now

But jokes aside it will be ofc more then lower corruption but maybe flat out at some point there in further increases

[livid spruce]

The way boss drop work is each drop is separately rolled. You could get one of each of their drops if you're lucky.
The main exception is the two "common" drops for each timeline boss, those are exactly 50/50 chance since exactly one of the two drops from each kill and they are unweighted; this is currently unmodifiable in any way (the new 150% boss drop increase should apply).
Only other exception is Julra, she always drops exactly one of her uniques.

And their description of how the boss drop boost will actually function is it just does the boss drops twice, then a 50% chance of doing them a third time.

[steep trellis]

We will have to see if this rank 12 is better than current one, personally maybe shouldn't have been changed now my 3 lps gonna be harder to duplicate

[gleaming mirage]

The old prophecy dupe perk did grow on me too

Even though this is pretty much strictly better, exploring the usecases of the old version of the perk was fun

[livid spruce]

New one is better for the rarest stuff. Higher chance of getting something specific that you want, e.g. anything 4LP.

[outer nacelle]

new rank 12 is huge buff

[outer nacelle]

coz it encourages degen behaviour. also, even with this degen behaviour, we still cant get what we want and it's balanced around degen behaviour. so they need to fix it so it's not a thing, then rebalance it around non degen behaviour.

[fresh pivot]

Ye and if you remove that tech some people will still degen farm that for random loot chest at the entrance or because the map looks so frikin nice to them

[outer nacelle]

if they fixed it in that once the mage is dead, the mage cant spawn anymore (or chest is opened, chest cant spawn), then that solves that. depends on how they would address it. anyway, it's not happening now or any time soon i reckon. so we can continue being degen.

[round temple]

Is this where I can find people to play with?

[regal knoll]

Usually fortuna ppl like to play alone.

[round temple]

What is circle of fortune. I bought this game but have no one to play it with. That’s kind of what motivates me.

[outer nacelle]

it's a faction you choose towards the end of the campaign, in chapter 9

also no, generally this is not the place to find others. try here https://discord.com/channels/368953963267096586/1070748285037465710

[waxen pond]

What's lakeside reset

[signal iris]

for farming exiled mages, for mad alchemist laddle wand...go in kill the mage, go out,,rinse and repeat

[grand parrot]

haha merchant guild is still much better

[river mason]

They are not meant to be comparable.

[grand parrot]

cause there is nothing to compare when you can get bis items for 0 gold in a week playing merchant

[fresh pivot]

Gl getting an 1lp redring outside of cof

[river mason]

That's right, some people prefer to get their gear from drops and some prefer buying. That's just how people play.

[timber narwhal]

Rank 11: Items that would drop as Rare have 25% chance of becoming Exalted (Previously Rank 8)
Making this rank 11 seems like a mistake imo. I wasnt struggling with legendaries, I was struggling with good exalted drops 😅 Rank 10 was already pretty hard to get, cant imagine what it would be like getting rank 11. Stash full of legendaries with very few decent exalted drops.

[grand parrot]

they just want you to grind and get better playtime ratio

[river mason]

The new rank 12 is easier to get to than the previous rank 10. The rank number are not comparable.

[timid sable]

ssf is the only way to play.

[fresh pivot]

Jeez the holy bug is back to hunt us in 1.1

[regal knoll]

Nope

[frosty pelican]

Check out the gear of J Taro on the mage cycle leaderboard. Guy in my discord that's been playing the same frost claw build as me - 2LP Red Ring plus other similarly insane stuff xd

MG of course.

[fresh pivot]

How do you even buy those when an 1lp is goldcap already

Same as who drops those things

[frosty pelican]

Idk he posts screenshots of the scores, he does constantly look at the market and gets some items below cost, posts screenshots of the buys

[fresh pivot]

Some days there are no red rings the other days there are 438 red rings on the market

With like 3k active players xD it doesn’t make sense but happy that guy who somehow can buy that

[frosty pelican]

I've only played CoF I just know the gear of the best MG players is not something we can compete with. I'm sure you saw the setup empyrian and his group had like week 2

With like 3LP bastion of honor etc

[fresh pivot]

Random 4 lp chest for 500k gold ^^

While an 0lp redring is 500 mil gold now xD

His group had the same problems as me tho 0 valuable drops

[frosty pelican]

Maybe MG depends on sniping the items that uninformed people list for way too cheap

[fresh pivot]

So merchants basically sell trash all day to buy 10 3-4 lp items per day

And there is no logical sense where those items are from when nobody drops them

I as always most likely had the worst rng ever in drops but that’s why I always trade

[regal knoll]

Things 99% of the ppl don't have. I have a group of friends playing MG and my gear was better than 95% of them.

[frosty pelican]

Yeah I don't understand it either, I'm sure there is also shady business going on, but regardless I've seen what is possible

[regal knoll]

If you are efficient in CoF, avarage MG players don't compete much.

[regal knoll]

Many ppl buy gold too

[frosty pelican]

On the other hand, retribution gaming, the guy who pushed to 7k corruption with Frost Claw had worse gear than me as MG

So who knows

[fresh pivot]

The massive dupes make me think that merchants is now way worse in 1.1 with less players + no duped items

[regal knoll]

All depends on the weaker orobyss 🤣

[frosty pelican]

Before the dupe was a big issue the top MG players were already destroying corruption and arena

Or took CoF at least a month to catch up to week 2 MG

It*

[fresh pivot]

I bought an 3lp exsanguinos day 1 for 600k gold while people where stuck in act 1 story le 61 still

[frosty pelican]

Yea of course FC can push 10k+ right now with shade cheese, I'm just saying that's a lot of hours played with a lot of drops

[fresh pivot]

I cannot make logical sense of why those items already existed on the bazaar xD

[frosty pelican]

Because you had 250k players

[fresh pivot]

But same as bina on YouTube I leveled mg by buying useful and useless 3-4 lp items

[frosty pelican]

You could run the drop calculator on tunklabs to simulate the drops of 250k players

To be fair few make it to monos

But still

And fewer are MG

[fresh pivot]

I don’t think many people at all hit monos on the first day

That’s why I was confused

[frosty pelican]

Unlikely exsang would drop outside of mono as 3LP

With the way corr scaling works. Possible though I think?

Er.. level scaling*

[regal knoll]

Well, rng is rng

Ppl CAN(hard, but can) drop 3lp exsang in day 1 if they go mono.

[fresh pivot]

It was very confusing but cool ofc to be full 3-4 lp on day 2/3 of cycle start but it didn’t make sense sense neither me nor people I talk to ever had even 1 good or lucky drop while all our gear is top tier

So when everyone is top tier geared but nobody drops even one of those items ????

My brain still hurts from that logic

And ye mg feels bad since you never drop anything of value xD so all hail cof

[wraith hazel]

Every high rune drop in D2 was unlikely, always.

But you said it, make a sample size of a huge player base and unlikely drops will happen. Probability is cruel sometimes ^^

[frosty pelican]

Just speculating here but if there was very little gold in circulation at cycle start it seems reasonable that the first to push corruption effectively for gold drop scaling would have a relatively large share of all the gold in circulation, and supply demand whatever they get the best items

Once gold dupe happened obviously gold lost all value but separate issue

If you've ever watched the PoE market first week of a league it goes a lot like this too

Those that race to end game get rich and get the best items fast

[limber minnow]

Gonna be interesting for MG players 1.1 compared to 1.0. Smaller and more informed playerbase Hard to say if more people to switch to CoF or not as well.

[fresh pivot]

😄 yep they also leaguestart fridays so everyone has a fair shot at the early market

[frosty pelican]

Yea I used to go pretty hard in those back in the day. It made such a difference for my whole league how the first couple days played out

[fresh pivot]

" if you dont " invest in x stuff then next week you can just run behind inflation constantly just grinding money to outrace inflation while if you start on friday evening you can just deck out your char over the weekened and be fine 😄

[wraith hazel]

all hail cof! 🫡

[limber minnow]

Just like real life

[fresh pivot]

those relase days dictate the market completly and happily LE got cof to fix that

[frosty pelican]

Well Le doesn't have flipping and market manipulation really so that's a plus imo

But still being fast is a big deal

[fresh pivot]

you basicly outrun the day " when goldsellers take over "

that means 4 lp item goes from 4 mil to 100 mil gold over night

then you as regular merchant lost 😄

[frosty pelican]

Unless you have a bunch of stuff listed then you have a lot of 1B gold sales to redeem the rest of the league

[fresh pivot]

quit 1.0 that day and will quit merchants in 1.1 at that day again 😄

[frosty pelican]

As Cole said before though, I feel like MG diminishes your accomplishments when anyone can just question the legitimacy of your gear

[fresh pivot]

yep that is also a big factor if you play leaderboards for example

[limber minnow]

Ya that’s a factor. Reality is I play games to top ranks. And given I enjoy the game, I’ll use whatever system in game to do so. Which is CoF currently.

[wraith hazel]

You will get your hate anyway, faction does not matter here 🤭

[fresh pivot]

that too ^^

its just that cof guys get more respected on the leaderboard

not that it matters on those ranks anymore xD

[wraith hazel]

I guess only very few people actually even care about leaderbords.

[fresh pivot]

actualy very few " try it " but most people " care about it "

[frosty pelican]

Very few people by definition will be able / willing to compete

[limber minnow]

I’m actually curious how often the MG players get accused of cheating. As CoF has literally never happened. I get defaulted to back up comments like: op build, just a time investment, good internet. Stuff like that. As is tradition with all games.

[fresh pivot]

the casuals will insantly grab the burning pitchforks withotu ever touching the board xD

[frosty pelican]

Closest to cheating for CoF would be paying someone to give something via resonance I guess

[fresh pivot]

i was called " one of the most known cheater in last epoch" whatever that means

[frosty pelican]

I suppose it is possible

[fresh pivot]

( warlock leaderboard related i assume )

same as i dont think people take effort to remember my name when i dont talk with them regularly

[limber minnow]

Well. If your multiplayer and build couldn’t solo push orobyss. You could get boosted and clear monos higher than you naturally could. And still non faction items can be traded ya?

1.1 will be my first time on multiplayer servers.

[wraith hazel]

Most funny was accusing Cole for playing a broken build.... competing against other broken buils 🤣

[limber minnow]

Kek

[frosty pelican]

To be fair, I've had viewers offer to play with me until resonance drops to give me 4LP ladle

Bless them but I feel like it ruins the fun for me

[signal iris]

In my currency thats equivalent to a 20usd item xD for todays gold, and more expensive during new release

[wraith hazel]

I played a lot with a RL friend, and we shared loot with each other... so I guess I cheated my ladder rank too? 🤭

[fresh pivot]

oh ye most definetlly xD

[frosty pelican]

I'm just saying it seems subjective

[limber minnow]

It certainly is for some people

[frosty pelican]

We would never know the difference

[fresh pivot]

most rmt people are your casual gamer dads that will never try to compete with anyone but its easy to just callout " top players " a cheater when those markets exist ( they always do )

[frosty pelican]

If LE became popular and more people cared about leaderboards, you would have this sort of thing happening

If people can abuse to win, there will always be some small number that do it

So maybe SSF ladder is the true test

[fresh pivot]

LE just needs a ton of leaderboards so some sense of competition can exist .... without just having that 1 leaderboard for degenerate 10-20 hour arena runs

corruption being one of the most interesting and time to kill

[limber minnow]

@frosty pelican @signal iris since we got a couple of the top mages here. What are your thoughts on mages performing in arenas and corr in 1.1 with current knowledge?

Cause I think they will be S tier

[frosty pelican]

The power level of mage seems lower than 1.0 given what we've seen so far. I'm also under the assumption that Runic invocation gets a big nerf and possibly Fragment of Enigma, certainly Frost Claw

All depends on what happens to the other s tiers

[fresh pivot]

ye we have no knowlege how hard acolytes get hit / if healing hands will still " exist " and if rogue is viable at all

[limber minnow]

@fresh pivot you should’ve seen my pre theorycrafting last night trying to make sentinel builds tanky with like 10k stable ward. I was doing some heinous things trying to cope that one out.

[wraith hazel]

this

Warlocks are strong, we have strong Falconers. Sentinels are a bit off, but super broken. A lot of unkowns to predict anything without patchnotes

[frosty pelican]

I think there might be a possible oneshot build using FC in 1.1

If my understanding of what's coming is correct

[limber minnow]

I’m not a fan of one shot builds. But more dmg and less defenses does seem to be the path EHG is taking

[frosty pelican]

Well more like a build capable of boss cheese

I'm very interested in mana stack synergies

[limber minnow]

I could think of a build or 2 for that 😉

[frosty pelican]

Well the new spark charge thing says 40 mana cost applies spark charge 100% on hit

You can get a 40 mana FC and using the tech I showed before you can get 25 to 30 hits per cast

That's 7k to 10k flat damage base

With int stacking

[limber minnow]

I feel like more mana stacking uniques are a sure thing. They also updated a FG node with parry. Maybe some support there as well.

10k flat damage is crazy

[frosty pelican]

Not 100% sure if it will work but if all the pieces of exodia come together it will be a boss killer that can also clear echos

[fresh pivot]

😄 definetly sounds like exodia

[frosty pelican]

You can trigger that FC for free using mana strike melee setup I showed before too

Then on boss you just direct cast FC to oneshot it

[fresh pivot]

ah ye ranged manastrike for clear purpose makes sense while that hits like a wet noodle it should be enough for trash

[frosty pelican]

Wet noodle? I cleared 3k corr with that easily lol

It's strong

[fresh pivot]

😄 my spellblade one hit like a wet noodle with that but i havent ever played mage above lvl 90

[limber minnow]

Sounds like cheating to me

[frosty pelican]

https://youtu.be/5FRL3YEL_vw

Here is the build

[signal iris]

If u compare ward generation on sentinel's healing hands with just few 2 to 3 attack u can almost reach 50k ward lol, where as on rm on 1.0 i takes time coz half of its ward is from crits and branding, i still go for sentinel assuming theres no bug build even if they will nerd ward in 1.1

[frosty pelican]

Sentinel builds faster but loses faster

Rm relies on sustain between bursts

[wraith hazel]

2-3 attacks = 15k at best 😉

[frosty pelican]

At least to my knowledge. Idk if shackles sent has a lot of retention?

[limber minnow]

Ya I’m real curious on the changes to HH ability to gain ward. The thing about HH is you have to also stand still. Which doesn’t work without an insane amount of ward higher corr.

[wraith hazel]

Never played a RM myself, but see it the same

[limber minnow]

You can get 400%+ cold res with t5 cold res on most pieces

[frosty pelican]

You building but losing ward faster is a big boon though with decay changes

You are less reliant on retention

My slow build means it is much harder for me to face tank in 1.1

[limber minnow]

Ya this is where my pre patch theory crafting was going haha. Maybe give up on shackles and just go for ward decay threshold or something if the plan is to only have 10kish+ ward

[frosty pelican]

Lmao watch them add some max life as ward decay threshold unique or something to scale it

No that would be bad, giga buff to low life

Nvm

[limber minnow]

Sentinels do have 20% max hp to endurance passive. I made a very weird build with the new chest to have endurance threshold at 80% of my HP.

Felt pretty bad tho cause sentinel champions chest base such crazy implicits

[frosty pelican]

Mage has mana as endurance threshold

And now mana as ward

[limber minnow]

What’s the ratio for that.

[frosty pelican]

Per 9 missing mana ah

That is sketchy. But missing mana build maybe with that experimental affix

10 per 9

Wait 9 end per 10 missing

So 2k mana is 1800 thresh

[limber minnow]

Interesting so you can perma endurance threshold “sometimes”. Sounds spooky

[frosty pelican]

Missing mana build is a thing but

Idk sketchy

[limber minnow]

I really wish that new 1.1 chest unique was anything but a chest. Can’t win ‘em all I suppose. Idk much about mage. But seems like it could be a good option for their chest.

[frosty pelican]

What new chest

Oh that

[limber minnow]

The70% endurance threshold turns into ward decay threshold.

[frosty pelican]

So that plus the missing mana to endurance maybe

2k mana into 1800 endurance into 1261 threshold decay

It's a nice buffer against oneshots

[limber minnow]

Sounds pretty good if you are already doing missing mana stack anyways

[frosty pelican]

Probably want twisted heart and some leech

Why not

Wait it needs mage relic

[limber minnow]

Ya the leech thing you would have to solve

[frosty pelican]

It's fine, tree leech

[livid spruce]

I highly suspect the endurance threshold from mana won't count for the ward threshold from endurance threshold

[frosty pelican]

Ah

[livid spruce]

it's basically a "double conversion", which I've never seen work in LE

[frosty pelican]

I guess LE doesn't usually do multi .y ea

True

[limber minnow]

Expect a dm from me after patch notes drop. I’ve cooked up preliminary sentinel stuff I don’t have experience with. Like healthy and hybrid health builds. Gonna want a pair of eyes on them to find any complications.

[next cape]

The endurance threshold damage to mana was old tech that got fixed about a year ago. But EHG has said they're interested in more work back on that old damage to mana/ endurance threshold overcap stuff so who knows

[timid sable]

any arpg is solo play the right way to play it

poe ssf is way better aswell for example

[dry bluff]

check your most recent youtube video, theres been a correction about the LP loot filter from muffin 😄

[regal knoll]

Great

100 fvcking items on ground

The fvcking abomination bugs and the necrotic fogs kill me from 10000000000m distance

Good that we can't see what's on ground...

Ty Eterra 🤣

[potent eagle]

Holy. Who is Eterra? I need this lol

[regal knoll]

One of LE gods '-'

[fresh pivot]

May Eterra smile upon you

[potent eagle]

Ohh that’s the boss to bring your corr down?

sorry just started a week ago

barely started pushing corr today

[regal knoll]

No no, https://lastepoch.fandom.com/wiki/Eterra

Have fun, the game is GREAT!

[regal knoll]

RNG is so funny.

How tf I drop much more rare uniques with lp 1-2

And commom items comes most with 0 or 1 lp, but NEVER 2.

[lament shale]

As you get higher in corruption, you definitely notice the drops are better. I'm at 1090 and it's definitely an improvement over 500

[mossy delta]

big F

[wraith hazel]

?

[quiet sphinx]

I'd rather have the choice of uniquely rolled rolls, instead of dupes of same item, I mean now with loot filter for lp, we can set a minimum lp check as well, it was stated bt a ehg dev

[river mason]

Only if you don't understand statistics. The expect value is the same while variance is reduced. It's a buff vs RNG

[mossy delta]

Only if this was a game where finding only 1 of something was all it took would this matter. You are more likely to get that 1 item sure, but that was never an issue in LE. There are a few occassions where you are just farming for that 1 item, but in most cases you want multiple copies of an item so you can get multiple attempts when making a Legendary. All the other bonuses reduced variance drastically. This is a change that no one asked for and if they did, it's because they have 0 understanding of the mechanics. This is mostly an issue with Exalted items, not Unique. The real changes we needed is being able to influence things like base types in prophecies. Not this nerf.

[gleaming mirage]

This is a change that no one asked for
This alone is VERY incorrect

[mossy delta]

let me finish that for you: and if they did, it's because they have 0 understanding of the mechanics.

[gleaming mirage]

Alright got me there

Back to the point about statistics then

The expected time to get 2 of something is still the same

[mossy delta]

It must have been asked for like a month after launch after I quit. It was brought up a few times in the first month, but the general sentiment from the replies was that duplicates were more useful.

[gleaming mirage]

And sure you could've high-rolled and got the high-roll twice, but you also could've low-rolled and got the low-roll twice, so there's no positive interaction either

[gleaming mirage]

In the first month this chat was FULL of it and of people complaining that it doesn't help get 4LP any sooner lol

[mossy delta]

I don't think this is true. Not 2 perfect copies of an item.

[river mason]

You just don't get it do you? It doesn't have anything to do with the mechanics, whatever you are farming for and however many copies you need, the expected number is the same.

[gleaming mirage]

2 perfect copies is not a positive interaction, as outlined here

[mossy delta]

It's not the same. Only if you look at it 1 dimensionally of 1 variable.

[mossy delta]

That is a positive interaction.

As mentioned before, getting item X isn't hard in LE. In fact the whole item system is kind of built on it. Items are consumable. So the low rolls don't matter much. But the high rolls matter a lot because the ranges on things tend to be high. So when you manage to high roll, you appreciate the duplication. When you low roll, you really don't care because you are spammed by items.

[river mason]

It is the same. It is basic statistics. The only difference is variance is actually reduced. Most would consider this a positive. It's funny how people only think of the times when they have two perfect rolls dropped, but never the times when two bad items dropped and one of them could've been perfect under the new system

[gleaming mirage]

I do agree that getting dupe high rolls did grow on me and I'll miss it, but factually, no matter what your criterium for an item is, the expected time to get two (or rate of getting it) is the same

You can cook up an exact set of stat rolls, which favors dupes as much as reasonably possible, and the expected time to get two items with those exact stats is still the same

[mossy delta]

It isn't actually the same. You see, according to statistics, you existing is such a huge improbability, but it happened anyways. The magnitude of improbability is too large. However, 1 thing is still chosen out of millions of options to happen. Statistically, you won't ever get the exact thing you are looking for. However, if it does happen no matter how improbable, it's much better to have it duplicated because the probability of it happening again is almost 0.

I'd agree if the probabilities were more realistic.

And really, I think the change is fine with uniques. The real issue is exalted items. - Ones that you plan to actually use, not use for Legendaries.

I wanted to see more prophecies like the Bone Amulet one where we can control the base type for slots.

Though people will likely get higher LP items faster this way.

[signal iris]

yeah,,,they ddnt mentioned if theres update for things thats not targetable as cof like eternal gauntlet, brass/jade/oracle, etc,,still im hoping theres changes on these and the amount of time rerolling.

[frosty pelican]

The whole LP dupe thing is the exact same argument people have been having with stock investing forever. Some argue that having all your money in one stock increases your chances of striking it rich, therefore it is better. Duped is the same idea here. It is true that your chances of achieving an outcome much better than the expected average outcome is higher, but that's also because your chances of achieving an outcome much worse than average is also higher. It averages out to the same, but your distribution of outcomes is higher.

You are basically arguing against diversification in favor of a more lottery based all or nothing system.

There are a few cases where the new system is mathematically "better" as I explained before, but none where the old system is strictly better. In most cases and over a large sample they are the same

[winter shadow]

after 20+ years of aRPG loot/drop system you'd expect ppl to be a little better with basic statistic

[frosty pelican]

It feels like some sort of loss aversion, where people feel more strongly about something they perceive as being lost that they previously had, than they feel about the new thing they are getting instead

[limber minnow]

Ya Flick is right. It’s a 50/50 chance on all drops. You either get it or you don’t. Cmon people.

[twin wolf]

Why use many words when little do trick

[frosty pelican]

Mathmagician

[signal iris]

Still, i will play cof, its the only thing that fuels me to play the game, the endless farming, if i do mg and just snipe/rmt all the good gear, then theres no point. I played games where theres online coop but u can cheat ur saves and it made me quit the game early xD

And theres no something as dailies/weekly quest here so u can do/play anytime u want, u can enjoy bday parties/wedding celebrations, etc xD

[winter shadow]

lmao

[next cape]

<@&1161418687471956101>

[fresh pivot]

ye sure xD

[livid spruce]

I don't think your average person will ever understand statistics

[regal knoll]

You guys are forgetting that now, it's much more rng than before. You can bla bla bla maths all you want, but rng and math are funny together. Some ppl prefer the 2ice chance to fail or win.

And statistics don't mean it WILL happen to you.

[livid spruce]

Sure, some people like lottery systems, but I think most prefer more consistent RNG, which is what the new way gets you

[regal knoll]

Consistence on what? You don't know if you will be getting anything better. It's worse on exalted items even. "Ah, if you get lp4, you might get another good thing", Some items are used in many builds, lp4 or not.

I understand you liking it more. Because you PREFER that "consistent". But it's not a fact that it's better now.

[livid spruce]

Consistency by the fact that doubling the number of rolls gives you a higher chance that one of them is what you want/need.

RNG smoothing like that is what CF badly needs. It's objectively better for 4 LP items, but the rest is subjective (though for most people, it's just all better).

[regal knoll]

And double chance to NOT get what you want/need.
"Most" ppl no, you. Out of few ppl here, I've seen around ppl complaining about this.

[winter shadow]

all the new rank12 does is smoothen the RNG spike

the end result over a large sample is 100% the same

[regal knoll]

Thats why I said it's ok for ppl to like it. But not a fact that it's better. I PERSONALY didn't like it. IMO it worsed the rng for me, cuz I have like 70% bad luck on slams. But now gonna be even worse because I don't have 2x chance to craft exalted items.

[winter shadow]

but you do?

[regal knoll]

Do what?

[winter shadow]

it doesnt actually change anything, except on how you "feel"

and rng doesnt give a sheet about feeling dude

[livid spruce]

That's... not how things work

[regal knoll]

Change for exalted and my own stuff. That's why, again, I said some ppl liked, others didn't.

[regal knoll]

Why not?

[winter shadow]

not gonna explain to someone who doesnt understand the most basic statistic 🤷🏽‍♂️

[livid spruce]

I'll give you an example. Let's say the item you need is the 6 on a regular die. If you roll one die, you have 17% (1/6) chance to get two of that item. If you roll two dice, you have two 1/6 chances to get that item, which is a 30% chance to get that item at least once.

[regal knoll]

Seems you don't too, since you should know that even if there is a statistic, doesn't mean it will happen to you.

[winter shadow]

happen what?

dude you're exposing yourself

just stop

[fresh pivot]

im an statistics agreer while at the same time math noob xD so i accept good statistics when it seems plausible enough so i dont have to math it out myself

[regal knoll]

Statistic shows that in 10 years, teeanger pregnancy has risen. Means every teenager gonna get pregnant?

[livid spruce]

That's why the new effect is better. More consistent means you are more likely to get at least something you want.

[regal knoll]

Relax, narcisist.

[winter shadow]

lmao okay

[winter shadow]

what a statistic genius we got here

[fresh pivot]

naa thats tik tok trends

[winter shadow]

i'll dip then

[regal knoll]

I strngly disagree with that. Lets just agree to disagree

[livid spruce]

It's not an opinion.

[regal knoll]

For you ^^

[livid spruce]

You are free to deny reality as much as you want?

[regal knoll]

You too ^^

[timid sable]

COF is the only way to play last epog

[midnight pollen]

This is a really huge help for the ssf game. I really like don’t interact with hdv!!

[timid sable]

imagine playing arpg and you trade

https://tenor.com/view/eww-meme-eww-gif-eww-brother-eww-eww-brother-gif-4303100356772739930

[midnight pollen]

And the game in local is so good. First time that I played and no problem with the server.

[azure ice]

what do you guys think of this? I wonder what the new optimal corruption will be to earn the most favor

[limpid karma]

corruption xp scaling

[livid spruce]

Because of the specific changes mentioned, probably not much higher than 300 and certainly below 1k

Ooh, the Tunk graph definitely very nicely illustrates that sharp dropoff

thanks!

[signal iris]

i think imo no need to push too high and devs have no plan for corruption leaderboard. So cof players after minmaxing will go for arena xD.

[livid spruce]

Arena drops no loot, and also I can't stand it. lol

[signal iris]

Yeah same! Just do arena if ur that competitive and to test ur char build and the players' endurance xD

[limber minnow]

where did this come from?

[signal iris]

its in the patch notes

[livid spruce]

He combined his previous data with the new step function in the 1.1 patch notes, presumably

[azure ice]

What Tunk shared is inaccurate for 1.1 imo

[livid spruce]

0.25 multiplier after 300c, 0.05 multi after 1kc

[livid spruce]

Looks right to me

[limber minnow]

damn, thats a pretty low exp amount

[livid spruce]

Yeah, I think it's back to status quo; best way to go is 300c+ as high as you can go without getting slowed down

[wispy stump]

its looking like just a huge nerf though to all favor gain.

[timid sable]

does it matter how fast or slow you get favour

[wispy stump]

i didnt even start loving CoF until 700 coruption and r10. we're have no way to get to that point

[timid sable]

in the end of the day you have rank 12 by day 2

[livid spruce]

With the changes in the patch notes, in 1.1 if you run 700c, it's like running 640c in 1.0. 850c in 1.1 will get you the same favor rate as 700c does in 1.0.

It's not a super bad hit for anything up to 1k

24% less favor at 1k corruption compared to before, but 60% more at 300c

[wispy stump]

are you sure? the graph above shows way worse than that, and i also put it in an xls before i saw the graph and got similar values

[livid spruce]

Keep in mind you are also getting a 1.6x favor multiplier for being rank 12

the break-even point is 600c, higher than that you start getting less than before and below you get more

(idk how the tome changes will affect this though)

[hidden temple]

Are we still gonna be able to spam prophecies like 2k+ corruption?

[signal iris]

idk if my 8kc mobs still killable after 1.1 and im curious about the favor too xD

[livid spruce]

You'll need ~17k corruption in 1.1 to be on par with the old 2k. It's really intentionally targeted against 4+ digit corruption

[signal iris]

damn

[hidden temple]

Aw lol

[wispy stump]

other than the ranks, were there other changes made? would be amazing to remove the low quantity prophecies from r12 if there are higher quantities tiers of said thing (4x 1 handed swords removed for more rolls at 12x 1 handed swords)

[livid spruce]

I didn't see anything in patch notes other than the rank changes, faster time to hit max rank, and favor/xp gain changes. Could've missed it though, patch notes are massive.

[signal iris]

hmm with these several new uniques added...and devs doesnt remove old uniques, cof target farming will be exciting xD

[limber minnow]

around what corruption in 1.1 would be on par with old 1k? im bad at math.

[livid spruce]

Since it drops off hard after 1k (equivalent to old 760c), it'll be kinda high - 4k

[regal knoll]

That with the 60% more?

[livid spruce]

Yes

[regal knoll]

That kinda made me uneasy...
Favor farm is everything for fortuna...

[outer nacelle]

Hmm

[frosty pelican]

Count me in too 😄

oh oops I necro bumped sorry

[frosty pelican]

is that factoring 1.6x or no? I haven't mathed it all yet myself

[livid spruce]

Yeah, it is

[frosty pelican]

So LP, XP, and Gold are all hella diminished, feels like a speed clear meta coming

[livid spruce]

The 1k dropoff hits hard for sure

[frosty pelican]

clear 1k as fast as humanly possible might be the CoF minmax play

and xp tomes are more relevant, relatively at least, and more drop further, so maybe just bounce distant nodes for tomes

I think post nerf FC can speed clear 1k still

[livid spruce]

Yeah, I think the general advice I'll give people is just to run at least 300c, and go as high as your build can go without slowing down (much). Same applies for min/max, except 1k is probably the minimum threshold that you want to hit.

No changes to rarity and LP of course, so higher corruption still does have better drops like before even if the favor drops off

[regal knoll]

Problem is that I got to 1600 corruption today.
My cold acid flaks got nerfed(frostbite shackles and dusk shroud).
I'd fast farm 250/500k favor and spam prophecies...

And now idk what to do...

[regal knoll]

🥲

[limber minnow]

It’ll be tough but doable.

[signal iris]

i havent seen @gray ermine commenting here..where are u bro

[signal iris]

what? they do nerfs already?

[signal iris]

this is very nice for cof btw if reaching 1k like before esp on rm even without lp gear..u just stay 1kc, have a good favor, i thnk cof players can minmax early than before

[regal knoll]

The "got" I mean, I already know the nerfs D:

[livid spruce]

Yeah, should be faster to reach 1kc now, too. Overall much healthier seeming setup.

[frosty pelican]

corruption scaling seems really weird formula, grabbed a bunch of values from offline mode and it's a weird formula calculated

This seems right though

[limber minnow]

Ya that looks about right. Now show us the new formula graph so we can cry

[frosty pelican]

there is some weird stuff though, because if you plug any of those x's into that formula, you don't get the y
edit: It's a tiered formula, like tax brackets

[gray ermine]

Playing Corepunk xD I'll be back for 1.1

[mossy delta]

There are examples of where the old system is strictly better. And it is one of the more important examples. You only mentioned uniques, but I have specifically framed my argument around exalts. The new system is basically having no effect on uniques statistically. It is negatively affecting exalted items. The odds of getting the T7 exalted on the exact base you want when the T7 is extremely rare, is astronomically low. So low that it can't be guaranteed in a single cycle. So if/when you get it, it's better to have it duplicated. Doubling your odds of an almost impossible chance still gives you an almost impossible chance.

Duplicating is better for the crafting process too. Duplicating affects how people will approach crafting, oftentimes willing to take higher risks with the first copy because no matter what you can just use the other one as back up.

It also sucks when you find the perfect exalted with good other mods and you think it's going to be an easy craft only for you to get -15+ in the first 2 upgrades. Duplicating mitigates the bad rng that follows finding the item. And since no amount of time can guarantee you find the EXACT same exalted item, it is not statistically the same. At best you can only guarantee the same exalted mods after X amount of time. But you can't guarantee the same base, FP, and other mods in any amount of time that can fit in a cycle.

[azure ice]

"more favor at lower corruption and less favor at extremely high corruption." Both gold and favor have been reeled in, which also aligns with EHG stating 300 corruption is considered "strong build." I have already accepted that as a COF player I will not be wearing a bunch of 3LP and 4LP. My concern was there was no adjustment to LP drop chance, which as we all know - the higher the corruption the higher chance for LP. When it comes to the change to Duping on the old rank 10, crafting is harsh and having 2 items definitely helps because I rarely slam my first craft successfully. When it comes to exalted bases, something needs to be done with COF so its easier for us to target farm and a complete rework of the prophecy board - constantly rerolling to get the item type you want just #feelsbad

[twin wolf]

Better ones were selling for 800+ million and best ones were selling for a goldcap due to ... reasons. Even for sweaty gamers a goldcap will take awhile but yeah that's definitely a possibility.

[waxen pond]

Last season there were gold dupes. There probably won't be stuff listed for max gold without a gold dupe this season.

[mossy delta]

weird to talk about buying exalted items when the discussion was specifically about the rank 12 (prevous rank 10) CoF change in the CoF channel lol.

[timid sable]

cof is the only way to play last epog

[wispy stump]

its such a great system, but as a casual there are some very needed changes

[frosty pelican]

It's all relative values though whatever you put in for your "astronomically low chance" the quantity would be 2x for dupe, with occurrence being * 0.5 - if you add up all the chances for these astronomically low occurrence things together, they will happen more often with the new thing. If you are like I want X, only X is acceptable like T7 INT T7 CDR you can't rely on getting it anyway and dupe / new method doesn't change that.

If you are just saying "I want more astronomically low drop items" then the new one will have it occur more often but halved quantity

I wanted T7 int eternal gauntlets last season as an example, dupe doesn't make that better.

[mossy delta]

If they added prophecies like the Bone Amulet one for all subtypes in the game with a way to "select" the subtypes for each base, then it would be a complete system for me.

[mossy delta]

Dupe doesn't make the odds of getting it better, but it makes the experience better when you do get it. Not sure if those are rare enough to be considered. Was thinking of something like T7 Frost Claws on Scrying Eye. Something that increasing the chances of getting it by only a factor of 2 isn't visually doing anything. If you could select bases for prophecies though. That would fix everything. Even if it came at the price of using a lense slot.

[frosty pelican]

Rarity is always relative though, relative to volume of your drops. If "increasing chances by a factor of 2 isn't visually doing anything" then having the thing that already won't realistically drop anyway be duped isn't useful either

Unless you are taking the cumulative of all such rare drops indiscriminately and summing them up, then saying okay, whenever I drop a duped 0.0001% item of anything remotely useful, I'll make a build around it

in that case the cumulative chance of dropping a dupe of "anything" useful, is still higher than the 2x drop of something specific useful - weird comparison to make though

[gray ermine]

I'm more concerned about 1k hard cap and no real compensation

[frosty pelican]

same

[gray ermine]

at least pushing won't be as painful, and having a clearly defined ceiling that's relatively easy to reach will at least feel better

[frosty pelican]

it also seemed like in 1.0 the rate of xp % was actually higher than linear

[gray ermine]

err and it's more like 1k hard cap with 0.25 value from 300-1k... so...

[gray ermine]

it was, very slightly so i think

[frosty pelican]

basically from 2k to 3k corr you add more xp% than from 1k to 3k

[twin wolf]

isn't 1k like soft cap, and hard cap is like 17-20k cor

[frosty pelican]

I did the math; calculator not quite done but everything else is

[gray ermine]

you're getting .05% value pushing past 1k now, compared to old system

[frosty pelican]

stayed up way too late doing that

[twin wolf]

kinda insane number but yeah, there are crazy ppl everywhere :D

[gray ermine]

it's effectively a hard cap

[frosty pelican]

yea, gold doesn't scale, xp doesn't scale, and LP rate is heavily diminished

it feels like instead of pushing you focus on blasting 1k as fast as possible

maybe 300 if you aren't giga strong

feel like we got a zoom meta on our hands

[twin wolf]

hmmge

[gray ermine]

yeah that was the case before as well for the most part, push as fast as possible until X then farm

the 1k cap doesn't concern me nearly as much as .25% value from 300-1k.... it's going to be really painful I think

I'm assuming 15-20% item output compared to my item ouput at 4kc in 1.0

rough estimate and probably on the generous side

Nemesis egg (and in general) will play a big factor as well, and there's some minor compensation in the rank bonus changes

[mossy delta]

This is definitely for the best. Infinite scaling content and rewards are a killer of build diversity.

[gray ermine]

I misread that, but yeah that's certaintly going to be the case

[frosty pelican]

I think both can kill diversity it's just maximizing for a different criteria

super zoomie build instead of a giga tank

while maintaining dps

[regal knoll]

Jesus

What the hell are they trying to do

[wispy stump]

remove the top end.

[regal knoll]

Force us to stay in low corruption?

That's probably gonna be horrible for fortuna

[wispy stump]

cause while im playing frozen's build, we're playing different games.

[gray ermine]

There needs to be more compensation in terms of favor/item generation at lower corruption or CoF deadge but w/e

[frosty pelican]

I would like it more if the penalty factor was more smoothed out rather than abrupt

but I guess that wouldbe harder to communicate

[wispy stump]

whole heartedly agree.

[regal knoll]

If they made 1k corruption top endgame for fortuan i nterms of drop and xp I'd be ok.

But now 1k corruption is what? 1/3 of before?

[gray ermine]

yeah, it basically falls off a cliff from 300-1k and 1k hard cap is the kill shot

[gray ermine]

less, actually

too lazy to math

but you're also only getting 25% value from 300-1k compared to before

[wispy stump]

its actually not terrible at 600 corruption with the favor bonus

[gray ermine]

it's 25% relative value from 300-1k and 0.5% after

[mossy delta]

I think more people are fine with not being as fast as others. Less are fine with not being able to do the same content simply because their build isn't capable of being min-maxed for higher.

It's a similar situation in poe. Zoom is meta, but everyone doesn't just run the 10 most fast builds. They just run what they find is acceptable for them.

[wispy stump]

ok, we can push corruption much faster now (in theory), and the r12 favor bonus offsets and raises the floor quite a bite

[gray ermine]

Nemesis system and new rank bonuses will compensate to some degree, but not nearly enough most likely

I'm assuming 10-20% favor/item generation compared to where I was at @ 4kc in 1.0

[wispy stump]

this is pulled from tunklabs

[regal knoll]

I'm at 1600 atm, would be what, 30%?

[wispy stump]

after 600 its not good

[gray ermine]

so 752% vs. 6000% basically

[regal knoll]

If it's like this, isn't THAT bad...

[mossy delta]

Looks bad after 500 to me.

[regal knoll]

It is

BUT

[wispy stump]

i barely cracked 1100 corruption, so again, were talking about different games.

[regal knoll]

If we focus on faster build

[gray ermine]

I was approx 6000% exp and rarity at 4kc iirc

[regal knoll]

We can do something

[gray ermine]

and now it's effectively capped at 750

so yeah I guess my rough estimate was fairly accurate at a base level

[mossy delta]

I was always against infinite scaling system, so I'm fine with the changes. But think they should just put a hard cap in at this point.

[gray ermine]

Playing the game itself will feel better for sure, having a clearly defined ceiling that can be reached relatively quickly will feel better

the item generation will not

[wispy stump]

at 4k, using frozen's numbers, you'll be at 1000 % favor with r12 cof

[gray ermine]

I was comparing the new 1k values to my old 4k values, which is what really matters

If you push past 1k with the new system you're effectively lighting your time on fire

[regal knoll]

Well, capping our efforts to 1k isn't bad

Bad is that now we need to choose ONE build for fast echo farm

[gray ermine]

yeah i agree they just need to compensate more on the favor/item generation side

[regal knoll]

And one build so we can actually enjoy.

[gray ermine]

the potential favor generation is completely neutered

Nemesis and new rank bonuses don't even come close to bridging the gap

it's pretty laughable actually

[regal knoll]

Wich, IMO, is all that fortuna is about. That's why I think it's a shot in fortuna's foot.

[gray ermine]

considering how much time I invested in 1.0 and where I ended up, CoF is just a joke now

[gray ermine]

yeah it's just dead I might not even play tbh

I'll probably play for 1-2 weeks to prove myself right and then uninstall until major changes

if I was even at 50% maximum compared to 1.0 it would be acceptable considering a lot of the QoL changes, but not this

I also haven't been factoring in LP/WW filter and time efficiency gained there, but I think any way you look at it, it's really bad for more serious/high end players who were pushing the bar last cycle

[fresh pivot]

Yup

[gray ermine]

I could be underestimating the value of Nemesis/LP filter in terms of them being indirect buffs to efficiency/item output

but even then it's still going to be insanely bad

On the plus side, relatively speaking I think my Warlock build will likely be stronger than it was in 1.0 (in terms of how it will perform at 1kc), assuming mana is manageable

[regal knoll]

Yeah, I thought that too 😄

[fresh pivot]

yep top tier ^^ will adapt a couple things from your setup

[gray ermine]

I haven't done the math yet to determine the diff in mana cost, but can always play more off Urzils to compensate

can compensate with mana regen in general now

overall stat budget is clearly worse, but at 1kc u need way less stats to be effective, so

[frosty pelican]

So the breakeven point with rank 12 xp vs 1.0 is 531 corruption, below that you get more favor than 1.0, above you get less

here da maths

[gray ermine]

the relative nerf when comparing 1k to 1k isn't drastic for sure, it's about t he maximum potential ceiling being gutted

They completely gutted the high end and did virtually nothing to compensate afaik

[frosty pelican]

1k is like 30% nerf yea

[gray ermine]

like yeah there are some indirect buffs to efficiency/item generation, but it's not even close to enough

[frosty pelican]

5k is like 80% nerf

well most of our items do come from prophecies overall

[gray ermine]

according to tank the effect of being at 1k is 752%, iirc I was at 6000% at 4.9 and around 5000% at 4k?

[frosty pelican]

and they have giga nerf

[midnight pollen]

The cost of prophecies is reduced to compense this nerf?

[gray ermine]

yeah my rough estimate was 80-90% nerf, seems I was spot on xD

[azure ice]

thanks for the graph

[frosty pelican]

in 1.0 - 1k corr was 1080%, 4k was 4770%, 5k was 6066%, and 10k was 12907%

[gray ermine]

yeah it's going to be a rough one

strap in folks

[azure ice]

So to get the most favor you want to farm 500ish corruption? Will it even be worth farming at 1k?

[gray ermine]

assuming you don't lose clear speed ofc

rough estimate you prob need to maintain 90% of clear speed for 700-1k to be worth it

[azure ice]

1k can be tricky there's a lot of 1 shot mechanics. 500 is definitely more forgiving

[gray ermine]

depends on build

pretty sure some builds will still sneeze on 1k

[azure ice]

haha true

[gray ermine]

but yeah the DR according to that graph seems to really kick in around 500-700

so the amount of clear speed you need to maintain past that point for pushing to be worth it will get progressively higher

[frosty pelican]

probably want to just push to 1k and then call it a day

unless your build isn't that strong

but we talkin the minmax here

[wispy stump]

@gray ermine is it the spirit plague warlock on maxroll?

[frosty pelican]

1.0 vs 1.1 Favor Farm Calculator is done for those who want to play around with it: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/copy?gid=498577041

Change the corruption and faction rank values highlighted in green.

[gray ermine]

No, Ghostflame + Chaos Bolts w/ Torment

Don't think anyone else was really playing my build

[gray ermine]

https://www.lastepochtools.com/planner/BGwJl1dB might not be fully up to date

[oblique flax]

Warlock, Level 100

:white_check_mark: This character build is verified

Game Cycle / Version:

1.0 / 1.0.6

Class:

Acolyte (20) / Lich (28) / Warlock (65)

General:

▸ Health: 1,286, Regen: 18/s
▸ Mana: 520, Regen: 18/s
▸ Ward Retention: 721%, Regen: 232/s
▸ Attributes: 43 Str / 20 Dex / 147 Int / 10 Att / 16 Vit
▸ Resistances: 78% / 90% / 105% / 78% / 35% / 492% / 94%
▸ EHP: 3,015 / 2,638 / 2,638 / 3,397 / 3,015 / 2,638 / 2,638

Defenses:

▸ Endurance: 20%, Threshold: 257
▸ Dodge Chance: 4% (108)
▸ Armor Mitigation: 49% (3,050)

Damage Types:

▸ Necrotic, Fire, Cold / Spell, DoT

Buffs:

▸ None

Used skills:

• Ghostflame (22)
• Rip Blood (21)
• Chthonic Fissure (22)
• Chaos Bolts (22)
• Wandering Spirits (21)

Used unique items:

• Boneclamor Barbute
• Urzil's Pride
• Mad Alchemist's Ladle
• Mortality's Grasp
• Immolator's Oblation
• Telf'un's Mirage
• Red Ring of Atlaria
• Red Ring of Atlaria
• Orian's Eye
• Twisted Heart of Uhkeiros

[gray ermine]

Also that Oblation is just a tech in vs. single target, 4lp Chains of Uleros is primary belt

[fresh pivot]

the ghostflame points are wierd to choose now since those got hit hard the other 4 skills are fine and up to date i'd say

[gray ermine]

yeah I'm sure I can still make it work though

might need T7 Ghostflame on helm for +4

some stuff will change in 1.1, need to look at everything and test stuff

[fresh pivot]

😄 or reducing the points on ghostflame even since alot of the good stuff is gone

so base mana cost 56 per second and then +80% manacost for 25% movespeed ? id say no to that part 😄 same as that 2 point damage reduction doesnt exist ^^

seems like lesser invest into that abillity to keep mana viable

[red helm]

So CoF will be much better now for average players and nerfed for minmax sweaters that were pushing 4 digits corruption with crazy build ?

Reading your discussion

[fresh pivot]

y

[red helm]

Ok

[winter shadow]

I wouldnt say much better for avg players

it's better but not like 10 times better

comparing to the nerf to high ceiling

[fresh pivot]

since the avg player doesnt go beyond 300 corruption it is definetly a buff

[frosty pelican]

Yeah up to 300 is at minimum the same as before, better with any ranks

[red helm]

I think that if you are able to beat 1k corruption after nerfs you can probably obliterate pinnacle boss too

[frosty pelican]

hard to say, you can cheese 1k with enough AoE / damage

boss won't insta die unless you have insane single target

[red helm]

I am generalizing a bit

[frosty pelican]

what's interesting is that the +5% per rank will actually mean you reach max rank way faster than before

it's not just that it takes less total rep

[red helm]

A lot of people were not happy with how fast ranks were proggressing

[frosty pelican]

a lot of people just make new characters over and over, and live in the xp penalty zone below level 90

it will still suck for them

[red helm]

thats true too

I think its better to pull the plugg now and put game back to more sane numbers of corruption, loot etc. before people adjust to what we had in 1.0

A lot of ppl will be unhappy but it will be good for longevity of game either way in long run

[fathom pike]

Has CoF fundamentally changed at all since launch

Or is it still earn rep killing stuff, and earn rep by spending favor

[regal knoll]

Same

[regal knoll]

Fortuna is funny 😄

[tame rune]

😯 but it's 0lp...

[velvet matrix]

Patch notes look great for Circle of Fortune players. Really looking forward to rolling a new character again

[hazy elm]

lmfao

[winter shadow]

who's gonna tell him

[hazy elm]

ignorance is a bliss

🙏

kekw

[tawdry sorrel]

What's wrong with cof?

[regal knoll]

Fortuna got way worse for tryhard players.

[frosty pelican]

In 1.0 in order to get gear comparable to the top MG players we had to grind for a long time at thousands of corruption, and I'm not even just talking about boss drops that were buffed. Now we don't get bonus for high corruption so we will get a lot fewer items super end game

[regal knoll]

For casuals it got better

[pastel tangle]

how did it get worse? genuinely asking, i was too depressed by sent changes to read the rest of the patch notes

[fresh pivot]

Everything above 1k corruption got cut out basically from rewarding you more

[frosty pelican]

Well as you probably know, favor gain is directly tied to xp gain, so more xp = more favor. The breakeven point now assuming rank 12 is about 530 corruption

[regal knoll]

1k is already much less...

[frosty pelican]

So players who farmed above 530 corruption will be getting less favor even with the rank boosts

[fresh pivot]

^^ so maybe … probably not … endless arena gives you most favor per hour now

[frosty pelican]

That change was so that "players don't feel obligated to farm thousands of corruption" for weeks, essentially, but the change means that if you want to be a sweaty grinder you probably want to be MG

[pastel tangle]

i was about to say that seems to be the end result

MG does need the help tbh

[frosty pelican]

Lel

Guy starting up a debate with that one xd

[pastel tangle]

I climbed really quickly last cycle and ended up thinking i would've gotten more out of that kind of gameplay in MG

[fresh pivot]

MG dies pretty quickly tho when the shady stuff takes over

[frosty pelican]

Probably, if you go hard with MG early you get a nice start

[fresh pivot]

And swap to cof when that gets boring

[hazy elm]

i played 4 builds last season on mg and almost minmaxed 3 of them, 1 on start one 2 weeks after and one 1 month later, you can definetly get crazy gear on mg even way later in the cycle

its meta stuff that gets sold fast, so if you go mg and want to try meta build do it first and save off meta for later, you can still easily get op gear for that

[hazy elm]

wait did they really say that???

[regal knoll]

Yes. Now CoF have way less chance to be on par as they could before.

[frosty pelican]

@hazy elm #👨┃ask-the-devs-not-support-no-bugs message yea, then see Mike discussion a bit below

I understand the idea, it makes sense, I'm just not 100% sure how people will feel

[hazy elm]

lmfao ye well come to mg then

imo its silly nerfing 0.00001%

of players

[frosty pelican]

It's fine. I'm used to being at a disadvantage vs trade in ARPGs, I don't like to trade. At least in LE the disadvantage is smaller

[hidden temple]

The end result is cof will still have to do an insane grind for weeks on end 😆 might as well play merchant guild

[azure ice]

At first glance 530 corruption favor cap makes COF look hyper casual. But we havent played 1.1 yet. The next few weeks ahead will provide the answers we have been looking for

[hazy elm]

they did make it casual guild

[regal knoll]

They could've improved for casuals. It's ok. They didn't have to nerf tryhard players. 0 necessity.

[fresh pivot]

Yep exactly that

[regal knoll]

AHAHAHAHAH

[azure ice]

ill probably roll a b tier build from max roll tomorrow and just have fun!

[hazy elm]

there are plenty of b tier builds there that can do 1k+

so its highly subjective

[timid sable]

Not able to trade is quite what ever for me. I think in le you have the biggest disadvantage in any arpg but it is what it is

[hazy elm]

biggest disadvantage in what?

[timid sable]

Of Power

I mean it is what ever since cof is for me the only correct way to play anyways

[hazy elm]

i mean poe like 100x times worse

in that aspect

than le

not sure why would u say that

[azure ice]

thanks for letting me know

Ive found in ARPGs people play in many different ways - majority of players dont even hit level 90 if i had to guess because they are too busy rolling alts / new builds

[timid sable]

I dont feel a huge diffrent in Power in poe ssf or trade

[cinder marsh]

victim arc is starting before season launch this league holy

[hazy elm]

then most likely you dont use mirror tier items

[timid sable]

Mirror items making no diffrent for me interms of content I cam do

[midnight pollen]

I really hate trade in game so, the cof is really good. And i don’t play the ladder.

[frosty pelican]

Well in that sense the same is true for CoF vs MG in LE, you can do all content with both easily here too lol

In PoE mirror tier gear results in absurd power that allows you to zoom through maps at 500% ms killing everything in less than 30s you don't need it, of course but you don't in LE either

[hazy elm]

yep plenty of builds that can do 400 cor+all bosses with just 0 lp gear and rare items

and thats like... 10h gear

[frosty pelican]

I literally cleared an empowered mono with 0 gear for lols

And it wasn't even an ideal build to do ot

[hazy elm]

and by 10h i mean 10h without any factions at all

[frosty pelican]

0 gear 0 idols btw

[hazy elm]

so i think bringing up doable contant with relation to factions is strange

it only matters for minmaxing and qol for alts

[frosty pelican]

Very few players make it to 500c in the first place, talking tiny tiny fraction of 1%

And that's where the change makes a difference

[hazy elm]

thats actually whats strange to me, is it build choice?

cause you really dont need any gear to get past 300

[frosty pelican]

Most people wouldn't gear to the level of gear where they need to do such crazy grinds to find improvements even in 1.0

They either make a new build or go to a different game

I'm obviously biased though

[hazy elm]

i think its just people are new to the game and a bit clueless

[frosty pelican]

Maybe more casual players will play harder in CoF knowing they aren't at a huge disadvantage vs the 3k+ CoF pkayers

[hazy elm]

they dont even need to play harder

[mossy fractal]

Well this patch was really a mixed bag for CoF. Sure they sorted some main pain points for CoF but they also nerfed it hard for those who like to play throughout the entire cycle. I don't think that was needed.

[hazy elm]

imo

they just need the most basic understanding what you need to do to make build work

thats all it takes to reach 300

[unreal nest]

you wildly overestimate the comprehension of the lowest common denominator

[hazy elm]

i mean i expected that most people dont reach emp monos but it was still a bit shocking when mike said that less than fraction of 1% reaches emp monos

[hazy elm]

welll they can suuurelyyy at least follow a guide and understand it.... COPIUM

but ya i saw peoples comprehension its very low

[unreal nest]

Yep - you are still overestimating it. Ive helped people who swear they are following a guide, and missed 75% of the important parts of it. Most guides are written by people who have a baseline understanding of the content - and they write from that vantage point. Very few write from a blank slate, because its very difficult to do.

[mossy fractal]

Sure but a little love for those who play for months and are starting to feel ok with gear progress at four digit corruption would have been nice. Now that is nerfed hard.

[regal knoll]

Well, Mike said if the buffs aren't enough(for cof) they can improve it. But didn't tell me if they can be done in mid cycle change.

[unreal nest]

Sure - but you are talking about the 1% of the 1% - its just not a player segment that makes sense to cater to.

[mossy fractal]

Well but they did focus quite a bit on that segment in the nerf of favour.

Kinda made CoF flip from decent for hardcore, play all season people it was to a more cater to casuals.

[regal knoll]

No need to make life better for us tryharders. But they didn't need to nerf us. Zero need.

[mossy fractal]

This.

[midnight pollen]

The casual player can be « vexed ».

[mossy fractal]

I like the whole shift corruption down thing. It was tedious to raise high. Just a little puzzled why they nerfed "high end" tryhard CoF players massively if we want some red rings or something.

[regal knoll]

How D:? They can be vexed with MG faction, I'd understand. But tryharder players?

[regal knoll]

If they made 1k corruption farm become 500, and after 1k, not worth since nerf on exp, I'd be ok. Problem is that tryharders are used to their time pay off. Now it doesn't.

[inner pelican]

I don't think it's that big of a nerf. Double boss drops plus the 60% increased favor gain deals very similar to high corruption grind

[hazy elm]

here we go, maxroll readers are already wondering why 1.1 sorc guide looks nothing like his 1.0 offline sorcerer

[quaint radish]

That the best way to put it, in the end that mean more prophecy and a better range of loot since we wont get the same item mutiple time. I understand that in the case of super rare unique the double drop was cool but this way now mean more chance to get it overall

[frosty pelican]

For boss specific items only, most items for your build aren't those though.

Let's take 1LP Red Ring as an example, a lot of CoF players grinded those as a chase, it's probably on average 4M+ favor to get one with the right slam and that's just one item not counting the base you need or any of your other gear. 1LP RR probably unrealistic to farm now outside of extremely rng or extreme grind. At 4k corruption you are looking at an 80% ish reduction in favor so probably 5x longer

Sweaty MG players pushing for ladder or whatever will probably have those, CoF players will now likely not. And they make a huge difference for some builds

[regal knoll]

With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong.

[frosty pelican]

IMO even if you farm 800 to 1k corruption you won't feel much worse off, it's mainly a nerf to the absolute far end of min maxers, for those few that were the ones potentially competing with MG to any meaningful degree they are now at a big disadvantage

To be fair, gold was also nerfed in high corr, curious what that looks like for MG

[regal knoll]

Won't change much, just prices gonna be lower.

[frosty pelican]

Prices will be lower sure, but it potentially reduces the disparity that min maxing MG players can get above the rest

The wealth disparity if you will lmao

[hazy elm]

nobody cared for raw gold drops in mg

so it wont change anything

[frosty pelican]

Because of inflated gold values

[inner pelican]

Sure. For the top 1000 CoF players it's a substantial nerf. For the other 99.99% it's a buff and QoL improvement

[frosty pelican]

If gold isn't as inflated for certain reason maybe actual gold drops matter

[regal knoll]

Gold values inflation were the dupe and gold hack, no?

[hazy elm]

nah idk from my experience gold drop became almost irrelavant on day 4-5 before bots and glitches overinflated economy

[frosty pelican]

That's where gold in circulation comes from initially right? So if no external factor influences the amount of gold then the drops should be relevant

[hazy elm]

ye its just after 1st week 99% of income comes from items, maybe im overlooking it but it felt that way

[regal knoll]

The improvement for casuals and 500ish players is very ok and welcome. The nerf for tryharders, not. We didn't hurt any1 😦

[frosty pelican]

Right but those items only sold for that gold because the gold someone paid for your item entered circulation via being dropped by a mob kill, mono, arena key sell, etc.

[inner pelican]

They also did heavily nerf item sell val too

[hazy elm]

nobody and literally nobody should vendor items its a bait and waste of time

[frosty pelican]

Yep keys

Keys selling for 7k gold was not a bait

[regal knoll]

Keys were a big gold inflations, I remember they nerfed is asap.

[hazy elm]

ye i but they didnt nerf it in 1.1 its still same 500?

unless i missed smth

[inner pelican]

If that's the case show me the math in favor differences 🤷

[frosty pelican]

Maybe 10nis is talking about random items sell value

[hazy elm]

ye thats what i assumed

nobody sells normal items

[frosty pelican]

The problem 1.0 is once the gold was added, it never really went away

[regal knoll]

In this post there are some. But you can watch:
https://youtu.be/711pumfiQgY?si=HZ0TNKk-ZSHJdb91

[frosty pelican]

Did 1.1 add any inflation control measures or no?

[inner pelican]

This. There was no tax or sinks

[frosty pelican]

MG didn't even need to buy many stash tabs unlike CoF hahaha

[regal knoll]

I could only gather 47kk for my legacy start and we need 90kk for all 200 tabs, qq

[hazy elm]

its not that it never went away its just lightless arbor couldnt catch up , the inflation was so high that i stopped doing monoliths AT ALL after 2.5 weeks in cycle, i was only doing lightless arbor all days and dumping thousands of gold per run while making money

so the tool is there, it just didnt keep up with glitch duping

[inner pelican]

@frosty pelican do you have a link to the desmos from that vid. At work and cant watch at the moment

[hazy elm]

i was spending like 20-30 mil daily on lightless arbor

while getting 50mln-1bil profit

[winter shadow]

nothing can stop inflation getting crazy when ppl can literally pour 1.5b gold with one single click

[frosty pelican]

Well the cost of lightless did not scale with the inflation of the market, once a certain threshold was reached the entry cost became irrelevant vs the reqard

@inner pelican yeah here is the corruption vs xp calculator I built: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1DLiKBOApPtBBm5prr185HU-iYM9k28ENFgz-voXpB-4/edit?gid=498577041#gid=498577041

[hazy elm]

but imo LA is more than enough if we assume everyone playing legit, but then we have bot farmers,idk how signicant itll be in 1.1

[winter shadow]

yeah in theory LA is enough

[frosty pelican]

in theory yeah, if there is too much gold, the entry fee becomes free relative to the cost of the rewards, so more people do it, then once enough people do it, enough gold has been removed that the entry fee no longer is worth as much as the rewards

[hazy elm]

ye LA is very agressive, cause to make profit you should spend 10+mil daily and make more than that

[frosty pelican]

it would be a supply demand self balancing system

[winter shadow]

the more gold there is in market > the more profitable LA becomes > more ppl running LA > less gold

[frosty pelican]

^ yea

why use many word when few do trick

[winter shadow]

i just pray for no gold glitch this time

:prayge

[hazy elm]

also just to show how agressive it is, on avarage a tryhard farming corruption all day will get like 1-2 millions of gold per day, while in LA youll have to spend 10-15 mil per day to get decent loot and then you can get unlucky

[winter shadow]

what corruption are you talking about

with "tryhard"

[hazy elm]

1k cor

[winter shadow]

cuz on 5k i was getting 1m per 10 echos

[hazy elm]

🤑

maybe more then

[winter shadow]

pushing cor will be alot harder now tho

at least at league start

we'll see

as long as no free gold out of thin air happening

i think it'll be fine

[hazy elm]

yep just need to not miss the point where LA becomes profitable to not miss out on gold pot

😏

was thinking of making mage char just to farm LA on it since mage gear will be $$$$$

[winter shadow]

that's my plan kekw

might go back to bladedancer later in season to compete for rank1 once more tho

[hazy elm]

but realistically i think ill max out any char i make before LA becomes relevant

maybe im too optimistic

probably not

[hoary kite]

excuse me but where is forgotten knights channel?

[hazy elm]

everyone is forgotten knight

both mg and cof

[winter shadow]

depends on what level of "maxing out" you're aiming for

[hidden temple]

I think i ended season with 193ish stash tabs lol

[winter shadow]

my 1.0 BD never reached its final form

since i'm too bad with the slam RNG when trying to switch for the final form gear

[hoary kite]

oh

[hazy elm]

1lp red rings, 1lp nihili, 2lp emeperors shield, 2lp pinnacle boss armor

should be ez

[hoary kite]

I thought its gonna be 3 options

thats cool

[hazy elm]

no, they clarified in patchnotes

[winter shadow]

that sounds not super easy tho

[hazy elm]

from what i heard egg will be op for getting 1 lp

[winter shadow]

could be with 1.0 COF

[hazy elm]

sooo

we will see

[winter shadow]

oh true

[hazy elm]

ya so the only issue is 2lp shield/body which are extremely offmeta

[winter shadow]

i needed 2/2 twisted heart slam, 3/3 exsang slam and 3/3 Cleaver slam for my 1.0 BD

[wispy stump]

honeslty this doesnt surprise me, but i also ask for skips, i find basic monos super tiresome, they feel slow with no item drops

[winter shadow]

and bricked at least 10 each

and had no way to continue cuz MG's market dead

[hazy elm]

i was expecting like 5-10% tbh

cause they game is just so much easier compared to poe

[hazy elm]

hmm did u start that from day 1?

[winter shadow]

not really

after 1 month i think

[hazy elm]

thats a gigantic difference then

[winter shadow]

since i havent figured out the optimal setup at first

yeah

[hazy elm]

if you were playing like u did on day 1, i bet you wouldve gotten it on day 5

[winter shadow]

it's hard tho cuz tbf build was made upon bugged skill

[hazy elm]

[winter shadow]

so cant really plan that ahead

[hazy elm]

ya

[winter shadow]

lesson learned tho

[hazy elm]

for me its easier cause sentinel main, so its pretty straighforward and easy to tell what builds will be good there

[winter shadow]

it's sad tho cuz i think with the final form i can break the rank 1 arena

even vs prenerfed warlock and falconer

[hazy elm]

well prepare more for 1.1 i think we wont see the same situation as in 1.0

[winter shadow]

hopefully

and hopefully arena won't be as inflated this time

😂

[hazy elm]

for sure cause with 1.0 devs were warned about all the op stuff, but didnt have time/will to fix it on launch, with 1.1 its differnt

we might see some bugs that break the game,but oh well its always a possibility and at least we know they will fix them now

arena hmm probably way less inflated but i would expect people doing 1k waves

but 1k is fine, above that is too much time sink

ill try to get to 1k with sent, will it happen? we will see

[inner pelican]

Idk after playing around with the calc, I don't see how this is a crazy nerf.
If devs can be believed and a busted build is now going to max around 1k corr then it's really only a 25% reduction to exp gain, which is easily countered by the boss drop changes

Even if they're wrong and you're getting to 2k then the difference is almost entirely made up for by the rank 12 change.

Still maybe 25% worse

The rank 12 change effectively doubles your exp gain where prophecies are concerned.
Yes in the niche case of a good drop is has the potential to be worse, but combined with nemesis egg then just getting the drop is the important part

If you take that into consideration then 1.1 is still better until post 1600ish corr

[frosty pelican]

Either way you look at it, it is a nerf. CoF was more dependent on corruption in the first place because xp was their currency which scaled beyond linearly with corruption increases. Even if no penalties were added, if they just nerfed all builds to the point where no one could do 1k+ it would still be a bigger hit to CoF. Assuming builds can still do 1k+ it's an even bigger nerf.

Reductions to xp availability disproportionately hurt CoF.

Also as I said before the breakeven point vs 1.0 with rank 12 bonus is about 530 corruption. At 2k corruption you get 3x less xp even with rank 12

[fathom pike]

idk 7 nerfed tomes compared to 3 unnerfed tomes

i feel like you'll probably get more xp than before until youre at crazy corruption

[fresh pivot]

😄 mg players can’t complain since they anyway don’t drop valuable loot

[frosty pelican]

Nerfed tomes and reduced tome occurrence

[fathom pike]

quant is more than doubled though as you get away from center

[frosty pelican]

Sure but I think it's still lower than 1.0 even at outer

[fathom pike]

plus this "Each Rank in Item Factions also now provides +5% increased Favor gain. At maximum Rank of 12, you will have +60% increased Favor gain."

[frosty pelican]

I think the strat is to push to your target corr, then farm outer, get a huge web, then fish for reroll echos

[fathom pike]

plus the 200k less rep needed for max rank

[frosty pelican]

To maximize rate of xp tomes

[fathom pike]

ye and just be doing this in a timeline you want to target farm a unique from

[frosty pelican]

I guess you'll get a lot of bosses yea

[fathom pike]

Im mostly sad rank 12 isn't duplicates anymore

was nice to finally get a 3lp item and have rng insurance with the dupe

[frosty pelican]

Technically a buff

[fathom pike]

ye just less dopamine when u hit

[frosty pelican]

Only get to fail 1 slam at a time, feels bad

[inner pelican]

It's overall betttttter though

It basically makes your favor worth twice as much

[fathom pike]

yeah i know like i said it just gives less dopamine when you finally get what you want at 3lp

since you only have 1 slam

itll let you get the item you need twice as much though which is good for gameplay

I do wish they did something to spending favor to avoid banking it

because now again we have the same issue where from rank 11 to 12 you want to pool all your favor and just never buy prophecies which feels bad

not as bad as before because you had to hold from 8 all the way to 10 but still

idk why they didnt address that it was the main issue with CoF

[inner pelican]

Not following? You saying that you don't want to spend it until they can be doubled which makes it slower to get the rank?

[fathom pike]

yes if youre rank 11 it feels bad to spend favor whjen you can just grind for a few hours and get double prophecies

so you just arent interacting with the system for a whole rank which is silly

[inner pelican]

Inb4 I need to make a "The Time Value of Favor" youtube econ vid 😂

[frosty glade]

Yea, this is kinda why i wanna stay away from MG. MG will just become a gold/hr if i play that faction. To then compete with sweats/rmters/bots. It just doesnt sound fun

COF actually makes it feel your getting alot of good loot

[fathom pike]

ya MG is undisputably better but it means you have to play auction house simulator and have a much wider loot filter which is just annoying to deal with

[inner pelican]

Also makes alts more fun

[fathom pike]

ssf CoF is the way

[frosty glade]

And with new league mechanic, getting gear is going to be easier. (both MG and COF)

[fathom pike]

Ive asked a few times in the dev chat if they had a countermeasure to avoid making nemesis farming like exiled mages

where you just tp in and out on a certain map and just fish for spawns.. they never replied

so im afraid the giga endgame gearing strat is going to just be doing that for 12 hours fishing for an exalted base to empower twice

[frosty glade]

So honestly there is no "better" faction. Its more do you wanna farm your own gear and just focus on seeing what is best for what your playing to drop.

OR

Do you play hideout warrior where you stare at the market for the 1st week, capitalize as much as you can to then play w.e you want after. The after that week, your competing with cheats/rmters/bots.

[inner pelican]

They said yes

But wouldn't go into specifics to help avoid abuse (I.e. Exiled mages)

[fathom pike]

so they do have something in place to make that not as easy?

i pray its implemented well

it could be something as simple as no more nemesis spawns until you clear 2 maps

[inner pelican]

Correct! Also hopeful