In addition to my post here #suggestions message (I was told to report bugs here). The longer I watch traffic on diagonal roads, the more I realize how broken it is. It really does seem to be the case that sideway cars stop the other direction, as well as cars in the same direction as the diagonal cars pile on top of each other inside the sideways cars. This is completely ruining any possibility to have good traffic flow in a city with diagonal roads.
#Diagonal traffic is COMPLETELY broken (+ traffic lights)
marsh axle
yeah it will take months or even years to fix the issue.
That will probably also require re-writing car AI and mechanics from scratch. Not even plugins will help.
twin smelt
I still think it should be fixed though, as it kinda ruins the game, i'm building on a diagonal island so my main street is diagonal and now that the city is bigger
the whole city just stopped moving basically
due to how buggy the roads are
wait why can you not build diagonal one way streets? I wanted to try fix it by doing 2 one way streets, as I thought that could perform better as there would be no opposing traffic
i get why you can't build diagonal avenues, but one was streets are really the same as country roads... just one way?
also re this buggy behavior, it seems to me that normal cars perform better and that there are more issues with public services, taxis, firetrucks and such, which never seem to be oriented correctly
woeful notch
I would respect developer,as if coding is hard,and not easy as it's seems
marble swallow
The diagonal road stuff is just a matter of displaying not a matter of simulation. It's a limitation of how original system was built. The current car positions are interpolated to smooth that path out a bit. Any potential changes would break all current road systems and pathfinding.
twin smelt
wait, so if they are moving like this? why are they getting stuck on the other direction?
since if I built a road like this, it would work, but when you build it diagonally (aka just visually being straight according to what you say) it seems to be broken
marsh axle
yeah it will take months or even years to fix the issue.
That will probably also...
I respect this
twin smelt
since you say these technically work the same, cars go from side to side
but it's just made to look different visually
not mechanically
(I just tested it just to make sure)
why does the left work and the right get stuck then?
if it's just displaying and not simulation?
marsh axle
but it's just made to look different visually
yes, it's true and also intended
it's just that the behaviour of diagonal and regular roads are exactly the same, except vehicles use different frames in diagonal roads
that's why diagonal car frames exists
twin smelt
yeah, so if it's just visually different
why is it broken in the simulation sense of cars getting stuck
if cars don't get stuck when you build a zig-zag road
that should mean there has to be something breaking in the simulation sense when making it look visually straight, maybe it somehow influencing the simulation when it shouldn't
at least that's how I understand it
since to me... if you say it's just visual, it should then work on a simulation level?
idk
I fixed my traffic, lol
marsh axle
I would respect developer,as if coding is hard,and not easy as it's seems
especially Java, which the game is written with
twin smelt
I fixed my traffic, lol
i'm not a coder, i tried but i suck at it, but if you tell me the diagonal stuff is just visual this shouldn't work either... in my eyes... idk
marble swallow
The modified car dirs make some cars think they'll collide and they stop.
marsh axle
i'm not a coder, i tried but i suck at it, but if you tell me the diagonal stuff...
since you are not an experienced coder, check the #plugin-discussion pins if you are interested in making plugins
marble swallow
twin smelt
The modified car dirs make some cars think they'll collide and they stop.
is there any way to easily fix that? maybe adjusting the modified cars somehow? decreasing hitboxes? idk
Talking about things not really working, I think traffic lights need to be adjusted somehow, as they always seem to make traffic worse, cares often get stuck in the middle of the intersection and before it clears the light already changes like twice. I think they would work more efficiently if the lights switched at a slower pace, allowing more cars to pass at once
since the cars get stuck the same way without traffic lights too, but they seem to push their way through more often... maybe if traffic lights had a longer delay between switching it could work better
without traffic lights
with traffic lights
marsh axle
yes, it's true and also intended
it's just that the behaviour of diagonal and re...
As I said the behaviour of both roads are exactly the same, this includes car behaviour, AI, traffic lights, bridges and tunnels, etc. Only the visuals are different
twin smelt
I let it run a bit longer, I will remove them again to get a better test
and this is after removing them again
I don't think traffic lights should make traffic worse, as irl they are often used on the in cities on bigger intersections to help the traffic, so it's kinda weird that it does the opposite here
I know that Mini Motorways had a similar problem, their traffic lights were too slow or too fast or something and they also didn't work at first before they fixed them
marsh axle
Have you ever seen a vehicle making a u turn in the middle of a straight diagonal road?
marsh axle
As I said the behaviour of both roads are exactly the same, this includes car be...
The only behaviour that's different is diagonal roads only work on right-hand traffic regardless of left-hand traffic setting
twin smelt
i have right hand traffic and diagonal roads are still broken, a zig- road like the one I built works perfectly on the other hand
my city is no longer stuck in an endless traffic jam
Diagonal traffic is COMPLETELY broken (+ traffic lights)
marsh axle
i have right hand traffic and diagonal roads are still broken, a zig- road like ...
I made a mistake I thought they are not broken with right-handed traffic
until I went to turn off LH traffic and still broken
twin smelt
Have you ever seen a vehicle making a u turn in the middle of a straight diagona...
okay now I have, on the intersection some make a u turn, just saw one
eager fern
without traffic lights
well, obviously. Essentially with traffic lights what youre doing is stopping the cars from moving forward which creates congestion. Rather, if the cars were allowed to move freely, they wont be stopping in the middle of the road causing traffic jams. Here we only have traffic lights in a major X intersection and a major T intersection. That helps to keep cars from crashing into each other rather than reducing traffic. Say in an X intersection, theres cars coming and going in all directions. This would result in a lot of incidents. But in TheoTown that doesnt happen so youre just increasing traffic with the lights.
twin smelt
well then what's the point of having them?
eager fern
well then what's the point of having them?
traffic lights? people like realistic cities
twin smelt
I do enjoy the game, but I don't think it's that crazy of me to want things that don't work to work, lol
twin smelt
well if things don't work in the game, that's not about realism, lol, that's about gameplay
twin smelt
why should i do it, i'm not the game developers, or have any knowledge of code
or very little
open scarab
This game wasn't designed for diagonals
It's as simple as that
The meer fact they exist is a testament to something
This topic will be closed as there is no support to be given.
@marsh axle. Stop. Editing. Your. Posts. It keeps the topic open
twin smelt
The meer fact they exist is a testament to something
I mean I guess, but still, when I buy a game that has certain features as a player I would expect them to work, yk, and if they don't, to be fixed at some point in the future
I don't think that's like something unusual in the gaming sphere, to expect broken things to be fixed some day. While with this game I feel whenever there is anything sub-optimal or not working greatly and I mention it it just gets shot down. 'the game wasn't made for this', 'just enjoy it for the visual', 'just play the game', 'have some respect to the developers'. I don't think i'm being disrespectful or something, I want this game to be good because I like it, I want things to work, that's why I mention things, not to be annoying or disrespectful or something, if I didn't care about the game I wouldn't be here... idk... :/
it just doesn't feel that welcoming for me here, because it kinda is like this ever since I came here, I feel like an intruder or summin, lol
open scarab
I don't think that's like something unusual in the gaming sphere, to expect brok...
When something is explained to you and you continue on whining about x y or z that's is disrespectful lmao. Because you know what the truly unusual part is? Being in this position for five years. Watching this game evolve past limitations we thought it couldn't. Yet there's always that one guy/gal/whatever that has to make a mountain our of a mole hill. Get over it
It's as simple as that
There a limits to how things in this game work
What YOU want isn't what everyone wants
There's some disconnect that you aren't understanding
Of course you are going to feel like an intruder if you keep trying to brute force your ideas. Especially when the developers literally explain the limitations.
But by all means. If you want the game to work a certain way, then learn to code yourself and make your own, then come back and tell us how easy that was to do
twin smelt
If a feature in a game doesn't work properly, I don't reallh think that's only what 'I' want, and yes I got the explenation, I see the limitation of the game. But it was edplained to me... for example, diagonal roads are only visual, not simulation based, so there must be a way to fix it. And just a fact that a game got better over years isn't like the best argument, games normally do that. I'm not even whining, I mentioned moat things like once or twice or just talked about them, I don't get how just talking about something is whining.
twin smelt
But by all means. If you want the game to work a certain way, then learn to code...
I never said game development is easy, but i'm not the one who decided to make a game
eager fern
The game is so old. I bet the coding looks like a mess back there since it was built upon the old code.
You cant just add new stuff
twin smelt
well new stuff is being added, which is great, but I still think if you decide to add new features, your aim should be to eventually get it to work prolerly. And not just 'kinda' add it and then just say it's impossible to fix it and leave it. Like I just don't think i'm being whiny and disrespectful by wanting things that don't work to work and I also don't think that talking and discussing game issues is a problem, like if there is some issue, discussing it or putting forward ideas, could maybe help solve it. Not talking about a specific case now, but in general
Like I have closely followed development of many games in the past where various problems were encountered and things were discussed. And it was always a nice process, excitingly talking about the game and things for the future and ways to do things, ideas and stuff. While here it's just kinda hostile, which I didn't experience anywhere previously. Like i'm sorry that i'm talking about the game and proposing ideas and talking about bugs :/ jeez 😕
Sorry for maybe not being the nicest rn, but I just feel kinda frustrated now, I csme here excited about the game and ever since I came here, from the start everyone has just been shooting everything down in a not really friendly way, it just has felt hostile. And I just haven't experienced that ever before with any game
eager fern
Well most games you talk about has more than just 2 developers
twin smelt
Not really, one actually had just one, ans the other was a small team of like 6 people, both of which I followed and contributed for a long time, one even for years. Another game I followed way way back was also a solo developer
It was a really nice experience to be a part of something like that
I don't think the amount of developers matter, what's important is a friendly atmosphere and passion from both sides about the game. Idk who has what role here, but from speaking to people some have just been kinda not very friendly imo. (i'm not questioning the developers passion btw)
idk how to expactly explain it... it's didn't come out in text exactly the way I wanted, but I hope you get the idea
I don't want it to sound in like a mean way, it's not supposed to be any sort of attack or anything, jist saying how it felt for me. Just want to clarify that
I'm not trying to be mean or something
open scarab
If a feature in a game doesn't work properly, I don't reallh think that's only w...
Mate I don't think you are understanding
The limitations of a games engine are limits that the game cannot surpass
That refusal of understanding is what makes this a hostile environment for you
It would be different if it were possible and just wasn't being done
But it's not
The assumption that "the devs just don't want to so they half did" is what's gotten you here
We had pleasant discussion about the transportation systems and how that will be fixed. But at the same time acting like something that isn't fixable is just lazy development isn't going to ensure you have a pleasant discussion
Especially when the argument and rebuttals just keep going in circles
And believe me I think outside of this discussion there are few instances of the community not being welcoming
twin smelt
The assumption that "the devs just don't want to so they half did" is what's got...
Well I haven't really been explained why it's not possible when the on the simulations cars zigzag and this is only visual, so if it's only visual, there should be a way to fix it not getting stuck, no? idk
twin smelt
Especially when the argument and rebuttals just keep going in circles
I mean it's not just about this... I was also told traffic lights won't be fixed as they are only visual, when in other games they can work. But if they are only visual, why do they have an upkeep cost and such, like when not playing to just make a good looking city, but the actual gameplay, it kinda makes no sense, and I don't think it would be impossible to make them work better
open scarab
Belief verses implantation is different, but I do understand where you are coming from
twin smelt
And believe me I think outside of this discussion there are few instances of the...
I hope so and believe that to bw the case, ig I just managed to hit all the topics that lead to not the best responses from people here, and I don't think the way some things were said was necessary, yk
Like I obviously care about the game, otherwise I wouldn't care about things not working
open scarab
Of course and the devs are always happy to see people who truly care
And I apologize on a personal level if some of my responses aren't the best
To my understanding, just the fundamental way the tiles and pathing works, I don't think a fix is possible
Of course a dev may say different, I'll be the first to acknowledge I didn't think the multiplayer thing was possible
twin smelt
Like I want it to be the beat it can be, and I pereonally don't think it's best when something doesn't really work for it to be shot down with... something like players like it for just the visual or it's impossible, just play the game or nobody complained before. The thing is most players typically don't care enough to complain, i am trying to play the game and if there's something detracting from the experience then I mention it, I don't really ever think of anything as impossible, maybe if it was discussed, maybe someone would come up with a better solution or even just talking about it, maybe me as a non-coder would give some new idea, i don't think just saying it's impossible and closing it helps, and if there is a feature that somehow affects ingame behaviour it's clearly not just visual as it has some effect and if it's suboptimal it could be tried to see if it can be improved. That's the way I see it
twin smelt
And I apologize on a personal level if some of my responses aren't the best
That's nice actually, didn't expect that 🙂
twin smelt
Of course a dev may say different, I'll be the first to acknowledge I didn't thi...
Yea, that's impressive, the website says something like striving for the unreachable... or play store or idk
Ans in terms of something being impossible... for an example, BeamNG devs said multiplayer is impossible due to engine limitations and connection speeds, yet later modders made a perfectly functional multiplayer. I guess they had some idea the devs didn't, so that's an example why I think jist saying something is impossible and cutting it there isn't the best
open scarab
I get where you are coming from as well, typically the more out looks you get on a situation the more likely the solution benefits all.
As for my apology, I do think it's far to easy to take the human aspect out of an online discussion. I also think it's fairly common for most folks, and acting like I am above that line isn't correct.
I truly do understand your points and I understand the logic you have applied
twin smelt
That's nice actually, didn't expect that 🙂
Talking about apologies...
I apologize for some.of my responses not being the greatest too, just joined excited and got kinda hit with some responses that made me feel bad and welcome so I got a bit emotional and some things could have been worded better as well
open scarab
I get it, your human just like me
While we may not agree, I see no need to fight over it, since I think at the end of the day we both want the same end result
twin smelt
yea
this is kinda a nice resolution honestly
I genuinely got tears in my eyes, it's just kinda emotional
In a nice way
open scarab
As I said, I think the human aspect if forgotten about, so being able to just talk like people rather than just online personas is always refreshing
twin smelt
I think so too
open scarab
But if eventually the dev chooses to read over this and insert something feel free to retype your ideas, so that he doesn't have to comb though all this stuff haha
twin smelt
i'm not sure how to retype this, maybe will be better to start a new discussion at some later point, dunno...
I'm not really the best at summarizing my thoughts
open scarab
That's fair enough
twin smelt
In short I guess... I don't want any conflicts, but more just talking about the game and discussing stuff, ideas, problems, whatever it may be openly ig
I also just noticed this game release first in 2015? I remember playing it in like 2016/2017, and I thought it was way older back then, but google play says 2015, I know the steam release is new
But yeah at the end of the day, we all want the best game possible, I think
open scarab
The game has been around since 2007, but 2015 was the first release
twin smelt
I see
marsh axle
The game has been around since 2007, but 2015 was the first release
on android.
among 2 current developers JustAnyone is mostly active
twin smelt
yea
twin smelt
interesting
open scarab
It also started off with a different developer, who has since left
Which is where I assume alot of the issues come from, coding is hard, but understanding someone elses game code can be near impossible at times
twin smelt
It also started off with a different developer, who has since left
I noticed in the #updates channel
twin smelt
Which is where I assume alot of the issues come from, coding is hard, but unders...
Yeah switching devs can be difficult
I know with one game I followed for 3 years, the devs eventually abandoned it and basically the publishers are trying to fix bugs and understand the code
Which is kinda a struggle for them, ik they are even getting some help from the game modders
So yeah it can be difficult understanding someone elses code perfectly, espevially if it wasn't perfectly optimized or was messy and such
twin smelt
Yea
I tried ro learn programming a few times... a few different languages, but I kinda failed each time... I kinda understand some code if I see it but not much... wanted to make my own game, as i'm a very creative erson and have tons of ideas and stuff, but yeah coding is not really my thing, it has math and stuff, and i just can't wrap my head around it
The most I ever managed with anything was... unreal engines visual coding
That was kinda more digestable for me, lol
open scarab
I am good with json, and basic html which is about as basic as they come
twin smelt
I started with c++ to try make one direcrional power lines mod for cities skylines, since I figured out how to build a computer in cities skylines basically, was bhilding a calculator, but without being able to direct power lines the display didn't work, lol
Then c# when I had a cool mobila game idea
And then python at chool when I chose computers
Which I eventually dropped
So I kinda failed all my programming stuff
Oh prior to python was trying to make a horror game in unreal
Was going pretty well... till I got stuck on lighting not working as well as doors not starting in the right position
And the unreal engine community wasn't rlly helpful, they basically told me to just figure it out, I know way back the unity discord was a way nicer and more helpful place
twin smelt
I am good with json, and basic html which is about as basic as they come
Oh I did html too actually... in primary school for a bit
open scarab
I have ran into a few of those communities, and I have tried my best to ensure we don't become that
twin smelt
So I kinda abandoned the game project as no video tutorial or anyything would hell me figure out the lighting and the doors, the only 2 issues I had, but without them I couldn't make the game lol
The doors even opened, I had hitboxes and all, but they just didn't start in the right location, like I had it somehow wrongly setup in how the game models spawn in
And lights didn't emit any light onto surrounding stuff at night
They did at day
lol
Idk why nobody would help me, but yea... kinda an off topic ramble, but that was frustrating, spending dozens of hours on something someone who knows could have told me how to fix in a few mins, but nobody would
twin smelt
I have ran into a few of those communities, and I have tried my best to ensure w...
Yeah that sucks, when it happens, i told them i watched a million videos amd nothing worked, but nobody helped, just told me to look it up over and over, lmao
Idk why that happens, sometimes...
With unity they helped me erite most of the code, where I eventually gave up due to just not gettibg it, here (ue4) I did most myself and couldn't get helped eith small things, was a few years ago, so could have changed by now, who knows
But yeah off topic, I think we can close this?