#stubborn effect feels slightly shorter

43 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

neon leaf
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I haven't done many tests on this yet, but it feels like I have to be more mindful of my stubborn effect, as it tapers off earlier than I expect. This isnt a bad thing necessarily, it's definitely possible to be worked around, but it is something that Ive noticed myself. I am just going off of feel, but by doing a move such as a windburst (flow dashing with stubborn while being bumped by a flicked structure, so that you can get an aggressive bump where you are immune to knockback), it feels as if I have to time my dashes more precisely, instead of it lasting throughout the entire dash (and then some)

Not a bad thing, and this likely was brought about by optimizations/engine changes, but I thought id document it

flint cobalt
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If this is the case I think it’s a good thing

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I’d like to get it measured at some point

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I’ve been pushing for a shorter stubborn duration for a while, it would force people to use it with intent and make it easier to counter stubborn with precise timing

neon leaf
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i mean id rather it be a feature nerf like only making it work on ungrounded objects instead of a timing nerf

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it might effect dash spam, but idk

flint cobalt
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I really don’t want them to do that, a lot of the healthy stubborn interactions come from knowingly dashing through structures that are often grounded

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One other thing I could see is making it a 95% or so kb reduction instead of 100%

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Calculate the force vector required to zero your momentum and the vector required to knock you back properly, add them, then multiply their magnitude by .95 or .92 or whatever value works

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Maybe even make the multiplier change per structure, make grounded structures give 8% kb and ungrounded 5% or make heavier structures transfer less kb than chip, something like that

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It adds a lot of ways to fine tune stubborn without sweeping mechanical changes that are hard to tune

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Because realistically stubborn isn’t that overpowered

neon leaf
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imo it kind of is

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50% of the time, your positioning is crucial

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stubborn lets you cheat that positioning by not having to react and just dashing towards the center

neon leaf
# flint cobalt I really don’t want them to do that, a lot of the healthy stubborn interactions ...

however, stubborn only working on ungrounded objects could provide a lot of interesting interactions through meta and melee play

in cqc, you could have to focus on not struppering an object/using puppets to knock someone back, while in meta you could have to play more reactively by actually doing something with objects aside from just dashing straight through them (take in the instance a grounded wall coming at you, currently you could dash right through, but with this change you would have to RTS/Uppercut/parry, and that takes up extra time)

It also prioritizes stuff like windbursts and a more mindful grounded vs ungrouned mindset

edgy sinew
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Hm... Stubborn making knockback slow you down instead of ignoring knockback or setting your velocity is an interesting idea...

indigo ruin
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I've fought against stubborn enough that I would honestly prefer it removed or nerfed to the ground, along with adamant. Imo it's not fun and doesn't add interesting things to your playstyle (like flow, charge, volatile) but is strong enough that stubborn adamant is the only stones I see in high level tournament play.

edgy sinew
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It adds an interesting thing to my playstyle

neon leaf
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i use stubborn to tank a hit instead of my structure

rich summit
neon leaf
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instead of my structure

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for example: windburst, or keeping my orbit structure alive to get a hit off

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preservation

rich summit
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it's still just using stubborn to ignore your opponent's attacks, just as lame as on the ground

neon leaf
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I still take damage, and so its not my first choice

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its overall better to RTS or to parry or do anything else, stubborn just creates a safety net

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it also makes sure I dont die instantly whenever someone holds a wall over their head while im shmovin

timid garden
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just shmove around their wall?

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remove stub✨

flint cobalt
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“Just do x” arguments are pretty much always ignoring the huge amount of context and restrictions in a match. Can’t shmove around their wall if you’re surrounded by debris, or on the edge of the ring, or (as always) on client where you’d need a full second head start to have any hope of getting past it

-# and frankly they tend to come off as bad-faith arguments

timber gate
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I haven’t noticed a difference tbh

flint cobalt
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Also removing stub is crazy. Clearly people like it, they’re using it even when they don’t have to. Taking that away from people completely instead of even trying to balance it would be shortsighted and is a horrible suggestion for both casual and comp players at all skill levels

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(Naturally, the same goes with nerfing it into the ground)

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I actually don’t think people realize how close stubborn is to being balanced. Realistically, a small buff to surge and vigor to bring (remove surge self-damage and extend the vigor timer to 7 sec imo, nothing big) would indirectly bring stubborn down a lot since its counters would be a lot less niche

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Add in a small nerf to the duration that it blocks kb or even just damage and it’d be perfectly fine

timber gate
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No my phasing

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You can’t do this to me rdm

flint cobalt
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In fact, it’s the only suggestion to my knowledge that leaves all stubborn tech intact

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It’s just be marginally harder or maybe just a different timing