Project topic for Monster Path, the Accord's Roguelike JRPG! Out on steam now: https://store.steampowered.com/app/1907660/Monster_Path/
#Monster Path
fading dawn
<@&888172064261955675>
New update is going on steam right now
has the slime companion
The slime companion randomizes his moves EVERY TURN
so get ready to test your move knowledge
whole lynx
So does slime companion not learn new moves since they would just randomize? Or do moves randomize to same rarity moves?
fading dawn
he never learns any moves
and it has no tier lock, so early game you can get 100+power moves if you are lucky
Ive gotten a move with 250 power in the first biome lol
but late game he should be fairly balanced since everyone has access to the higher tier moves
he works well-ish stacking slimes too because the slimes power up move types, so chances are you will power up something he gets
whole lynx
Hrm, true, true. How are slime companion's stats compared to other companions?
fading dawn
idk
in then ext update i was thinking of giving him big HP and not much else
I was also thinking of giving him an hp stat that scaled with number of slimes in your party
and also scale his model size up by like 5% for each slime in your party
whole lynx
and also scale his model size up by like 5% for each slime in your party
Probably would wanna do logarithmic scaling, otherwise he could consume the whole screen, hypothetically, lol
fading dawn
Has anyone tried the new slime companion?
whole lynx
OOF
fading dawn
He then died on the croc a dillo
fading dawn
and then the run died when i was trying to save my mentor
i never got a real build up and running
i just switched randomly between slimes
allthough I did have +72 dark damage power because of my abyssiums when i died
slender apex
I'll try it out tonight
slender apex
Notes on Slime update:
-can't see slime companion behind me on overworld
-slimes give bonus to all attacks, not just their specific type of moves
Trinity has no description and doesn't have an effect
slender apex
Weakness also does nothing
random glowing square on left side of screen
Got decently far (stage 6) before dying but its definitely a harder build just doing slimes. Slime starting companion is definitely weaker than the others but the random move generator is a lot of fun
nimble kestrel
Been a minute since I’ve done a full play through, do we have any monsters that have a replication/illusion ability? I don’t seem to remember any.
Im referring to, it either makes shadows of itself to hide which one it is, or it can create a new monster from itself (either by splitting HP or something)
whole lynx
That's a cool idea. I like that. I could also see that ability working for almost any type (tho I imagine the intention is Dark-type ability)
Along the same lines, kinda.. a monster that interacts with monsters on the enemy party... There could be an ability where if one monster gets KOd, the monster with this given ability would "consume" that KOd monster to gain some HP or stats or something
fading dawn
the battle system really struggles to change the number of battlers
like
its just not set up for it
OH
I was confused, I thought he menat like a big slime splitting into 2 small slimes when hit
nimble kestrel
I was confused, I thought he menat like a big slime splitting into 2 small slime...
Yes and no, more like the "Big slime" can create normal slimes, but it still exists instead of replacing it.
Yeah, if it's a technical limitation its alright. I had the thought and figured I'd throw it. Although I wonder if you could hack the system and just have say like "3 invisible slimes" that are just inactive and basically just skip their turns. When they go active, they appear in the flow as if they are "new"
whole lynx
Yeah, if it's a technical limitation its alright. I had the thought and figured ...
From what very little Saturn has alluded to how the system works, I think this could work, but the slimes would also need a special property to effectively just "hide" again when their hp reaches 0 instead of actually dying... and there'd probably have to be a special condition for end of combat, probably
nimble kestrel
From what very little Saturn has alluded to how the system works, I think this c...
Obviously, all this is in theory without Saturn, but that could be interesting.
Just add into the battle finished if enemies are "not active".
Then using that, could make for some interesting battles where say, King Slime summons 3 smaller slimes. They get killed and get "deactivated" and after a certain number of turns, he can heal them and just bring them back as "new" slimes
Without pulling up the code I can't say if it's even a simple addition but it could possibly just be a few additional conditionals
whole lynx
Using the "inactive" condition, could also make skeletons or undead creatures "revive" after X turns so you need to beat all enemies in a short time frame otherwise others will return
nimble kestrel
My mind wasn't even thinking about them. Nice connection there.
Of course I can see some logic where, if you defeat them using a holy attack then they get perma-death instead of the inactive condition
whole lynx
@fading dawn next update: Minions and Necromancy???
fading dawn
yall need to slow down!
honestly, it really cant handle any of those things without a big ish rewrite
the battlers are set at the beginning of the battle and they are super fixed
i could make a condition called "invisible" that makes them untouchable until they are the last enemy
or something like that
nimble kestrel
Hmm. Good to know. Could be something like a two phase enemy then
I shall brainstorm a bit on it. I’m overdue for a playthrough anyway so maybe I’ll retest the game on the SteamDeck again
fading dawn
try the new slime companion
its my favorite one
something about getting the strongest move in the game in the first room but knowing you will only get to use it once is so fun
fading dawn
ALSO
announcement
I actually opened monster path yesterday
xD
and i reduced the biome size at jer's direction
to try to tighten up the design
whole lynx
We making progress out here 🥹
fading dawn
im dying trying to figure out my previous code though
I use an int counter to track quest state
(i should use an enum, i know)
BUT NO WHERE IN THE PROJECT DO I EVER SET THE AIOLI QUEST STATE TO 2
whole lynx
BUT NO WHERE IN THE PROJECT DO I EVER SET THE AIOLI QUEST STATE TO 2
Aioli quest confirmed broken
whole lynx
This Mahyawa guy sounds important
fading dawn
the aioli numbers have 0 documentation for some reason
so nice
this must have been when i was trying to speedrun the EA release
whole lynx
Are these each in single pairing lists or something?
Like:
Hashtable<Quest, StatusEnum>() ??
where Main Quest is just one of those values you showed in image 1?
whole lynx
Idk how useful it'd actually be for a game like MP, but do you have a Quest class?
fading dawn
i have a like "RunData" class
its just like all the stuff you have to save over the course of a run
including quest states
whole lynx
Hrmmmm i see i see
whole lynx
I AM NOT A SMART MAN
whole lynx
You save all this in a json?
fading dawn
ya
whole lynx
Understandable
So since you're back in the mix.. looking at things.. What all do we get to look forward to with the Slime Update? 👀
whole lynx
How much shorter are the biomes?
whole lynx
Also i forget, do monsters/bosses scale based on your level, or based on turns?
fading dawn
so basically, its more about planning which monsters you want all in one go, less RNG
so like before, you could be like "ok turtle build" but then get no turtles in the next 2 rooms of the biome
now its more like, "i see 3 turtles, turtle build"
whole lynx
Gotcha
fading dawn
it also reduces grindiness of mid game
whole lynx
Does this not... Make spider crabs much worse?
whole lynx
Fair
Friendship ended with spider crabs, now Turrat is my new best friend
So do more enemies spawn on each map/biome now, then?
fading dawn
yea
fading dawn
Also i forget, do monsters/bosses scale based on your level, or based on turns?
they scale based on the number of screens youve beat
basically every monster has a level modifier which gets added to the world modifier, which goes up by 1 each room
so like turrat is a +1 monster so he is always level of room + 1
whole lynx
Ahhh, gotcha
fading dawn
thats why not every single monster in the biome is like level 8 or something
but they are all generally around that
whole lynx
Gotcha. On the spreadsheet i saw skeletons are like "8" or something
fading dawn
me neither lol
i might need to buff certain skills to be better now that there will be overall less battles
certain monster powers*
fading dawn
Full party of slimes
whole lynx
Oh right, adding the different slimes. I forgor what they do (secretly fishing for info to also add to the wiki 👀🥸)
fading dawn
each one powers up a specific move type
and the exp thing the slime used to do
is on the sugar glider now
whole lynx
I think you had mentioned it at least once before, but if you decide to add difficulty options to the game, I have a couple of ideas for your consideration:
- Random Encounters: All monsters in the biome are shuffled/randomized
- Underdog: Level modifier on all monsters is increased by +5 to their usual level modifier.
- Complete Exhaustion: Player gains Fatigue on Turn 1.
- Small Club: Number of monster slots you have reduced by 2.
- Glass Cannon: Global damage multiplier x2.5 (incoming and outgoing).
- Apocalypse Facedown: Skeletons spawn from the direction you need to go to proceed to next biome/map.
fading dawn
i want big club
whole lynx
Lol
fading dawn
apocalypse is fun too
i like that one
basically these are like new game+ runs
i think i already programmed this in
am i stupid?
I remember programming this
whole lynx
I don't remember. Not stupid, it's just been a hot minute
fading dawn
ITS HERE
there is a scene called "progression"
and you can select "Struggles"
i forget what it was for though
it was like
you had missions on the right
and struggles on the left
but what do you get for doing more struggles? You literally can select as many/few struggles as you want
fading dawn
i dont think i was thinking rogue lite
but maybe just like more difficulty
or unlocking characters idk
whole lynx
Hrmm.. I think completing certain struggles or struggle combos to unlock other characters would be cool.
I still stand by the idea to add other playable characters besides Bechamel... Of different types (Fire, Grass, Water) and same ability as Bechamel (to gain monsters) + maybe something extra
Like idk what Bechamel's second "ability" would be, but something super basic to get started would be to make the playable characters of the different types give +10% or +20% power to moves that are the same types as them, and -10%/-20% to the other two types they aren't (so Fire person would get +20% power to Fire, -20% power to Water and Grass.. Neutral, Light, and Dark move power is unaffected)
fading dawn
i also agree bech being the only main is tragic
i tried to tear him out once but there were too many assumptions in the code that he was always in slot 0
etc
like everywhere I check the companion i always just check playerBattlers[1]==Aioli or whatever
whole lynx
Well, you know what they say happens when you assume
whole lynx
i also agree bech being the only main is tragic
Even if all you added were a few Struggles that change Bech's type and gave a palette swap, I think that would be a good amount of MC diversity
whole lynx
Idk how you typically market MP... I know you have map seeds... I don't remember if you have Daily runs yet or not, though they might work best with the Struggles being implemented...
Had the idea that for Slime update, maybe you have a month-long competition to see who can reach the leaderboard on Daily runs the most (only top 3 or 5 positions are ranked and earn points, maybe?) and whoever has the best score by end of month gets a Solarium/Slime plush made and mailed to them 🤨
Or maybe 1st gets King Slime plush, 2nd gets golden slime, 3rd gets green slime, idk
nimble kestrel
Woah I was summoned
Which one?
Round Gloumar? I wanted something super specific so I found someone in the UK to make them. They were 100% what I had in mind.
Doing something smaller and in a larger quantity is probably doable. I’d bet you’d have to get like 50-100 minimum though but someone might let you do a smaller batch
I wanna make plushies purchasable with TIA bucks eventually lw
fading dawn
Lol
We were sitting through Eden toys a few days ago
And she said "let's donate this one"
On the original
But she likes the round ones lol
nimble kestrel
The original is a classic! I’ll gladly adopt him if he is leaving lol
I wanted the round one to be more squishy. Like with those little beads and I wanted the hair to be full lol
I do actually have an extra round one I think. I have to check my parents house. The OG I think only 3 were made and those took like 6 months
fading dawn
I told her I wanted to keep it lol
Which is awfully because it's super hard to get her to donate any old toys, and she finally said yes and I said no lol
nimble kestrel
The first Gloumar is my favorite out of the two for sure
I was originally going to get accessories and outfits made for him lol
whole lynx
Only so it doesn't die in obscurity, resharing this and gonna @deep nacelle ... to see if you think it falls within the design space you expect.
I remember discussing at one point that you would prefer monsters that serve a purpose or something like that.. instead of just making things to make things, or something. I know that drawing isn't great.. but i thought that conceptually it may meet what you would look for, roughly
Sorry for the pings 🙏
whole lynx
Jer has forsaken me. Looks like I can only bother Saturn effectively..
slender apex
Jer has forsaken me. Looks like I can only bother Saturn effectively..
lol he is drowning in work right now so he will get to it eventually haha
whole lynx
lol he is drowning in work right now so he will get to it eventually haha
I am annoying by nature. He is fine
slender apex
lol no guarentees on real results tho
whole lynx
slender apex
The real secret is that as Jer's girlfriend I'm also his secretary 😂
whole lynx
Have you considered pushing early builds with new stuff as Beta releases on Steam? Dunno if it'd be worth it in the long-run.. but just a thought
whole lynx
Forgor that it was technically in Alpha
"Epsilon build"
I am interested to know what the pace of the game and overall difficulty feels like with single-map biomes
whole lynx
When were you thinking of releasing the Slime update officially? Or no date in mind yet?
fading dawn
just when i finish it
im the most no crunch man in the world
xD
also, in order to shorten the biomes but still have aioli work right (since she appeared inthe middle of a biome) I had to add a new biome
its like a grassland near the sea shore
whole lynx
Don't see a single spider crab. This run is cooked
Wait, what does red slime do if fire (grilled) chicken is still around?
fading dawn
chicken does +10 to all fire moves
red slime does +3 per turn
im trying to make the next biome blled over into the current one so you know whats coming better
like aioli is atthe entrance to the forrest biome
@deep nacelle I think we need to make the shadows get less black somehow
whole lynx
Transparency? Idk how you managed the shadows.. are they just default shadows in 3d environment?
fading dawn
not default
but yea, just 3d shadows
but they just get super dark
maybe up ambient light or just color correct pure blacks
idk
whole lynx
fading dawn
ok
whole lynx
Idk if that's viable
fading dawn
im generating 3 rooms, tell me if monster density is good
honestly, we might have too many monster types
like there isnt enough to get a build going with stacking
eh, maybe there is
the wolf and turtle are the rares anyway
and i see a lot of chickens and crabs
honestly, its probably good because you cant force a build by just targetting chickens
"sometimes there just aint chickens"
whole lynx
So, another option—idk how it'd fit in the lore or the game's flow—but after each biome you have a super short area with a shop.. or something.. so you can kinda "pay" to build what you want if it's available. I've seen other roguelites implements something similar
fading dawn
well we have shops in the biomes
whole lynx
Time to implement difficulty... Idk if harder would have more or fewer monsters, but use difficulty to change level scaling or something
fading dawn
Random chance? Or guaranteed to appear?
i think hes in every biome
after you rescue him
whole lynx
Ahhh, so after the triple golem fight
fading dawn
I thought it was turrats
Triple golem is the wizard
I do think I need to make him appear in every room now that biomes are short
Which means he needs a smaller model lol
whole lynx
Hrm, i may or may not be trippin (down memory lane)
fading dawn
His cart is huge
whole lynx
Yeahhh
What if
The shop showed two or three "highlighted" monsters being sold overhead or something.. so you can decide if you really want to go before going
fading dawn
That could work
Also, I do like summary screen
And like
Little phase to do some other stuff
Like maybe shop or mini event
Way to upgrade monsters?
Spend sparks for exp?
Spend sparks to upgrade move to + version all the time?
whole lynx
If you have permanent move upgrades you can buy.. I would ask that you consider the Paper Mario approach where maybe you can get a special item or "relic" or something that allows you to upgrade a move twice
Different shops, or one shop that does all of this?
whole lynx
Way to upgrade monsters?
Way to upgrade partners?
fading dawn
idk
i like em all
because i like the slow and steady progression of monsters
and levels
but i also like when games give you big jumps
poe has a passive tree you level up every level
but it also has "ascending" which you get to do 4 times on the way to level 100
and each of them is a big power jump
because it feels good to get ahead of the difficulty curve for a few levels
I simplified the procgen algorithm to 13 steps haha
whole lynx
Hrmm
Maybe a few steps at a time
Too many changes at once makes me feel like it could tricky to balance
whole lynx
Sorry, not the procgen stuff, all the other stuff, lol
fading dawn
before i was using my famous int for procgen state too
whole lynx
but it also has "ascending" which you get to do 4 times on the way to level 100
Like idk how you would do this, or if you would even want to
Like if you choose not to switch out an ally on your team, do you just get a bunch of sparks? Or do you get a special passive or something based on which monster/boss you defeat?
fading dawn
Like idk how you would do this, or if you would even want to
idk either
im not going to do that this version for sure
whole lynx
https://tenor.com/view/integer-int-beloved-overflow-number-gif-12844330468357485...
"I played Monster Path for 127 years to instantly get to the last boss."
fading dawn
just finishing off the biome thing and adding the slime b iomes
"can you beat monster path without using any integers?"
whole lynx
"can you beat monster path without using any integers?"
only deals damage in floats
whole lynx
only deals damage in strings
whole lynx
"Your damage doesn't work on me! I can't read!
fading dawn
I bet "7.00000000001" == 7
fading dawn
whole lynx
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0Rt8pnYGFms
Trust, i know. I use it for work..
fading dawn
hahaha
somehow ive avoided javascript my whole life
despite it always being like 1 step behind me
honestly, it creeps me out
all the anonymous functions and shorthand
i cant handle it
C# can do that too, but it doesnt seem as common
whole lynx
Python is just a data scientist's Godot
whole lynx
Godot is just a game dev's Ruby
fading dawn
when do we get to the math
ruby is just fancy C
C is just abstract assembly
assembly is just computer math
i did my bets idk what ruby is
whole lynx
i did a lot of matlab coding in school
Luckily i avoided Matlab for the most part, but i was equally cursed bc we had to code in MIPS
fading dawn
yea
i did computer engineering not CS
so i did that too
but none of my jobs have been software jobs, just hobbys
whole lynx
just finishing off the biome thing and adding the slime b iomes
Will you be adding a "slime" status? Halves your speed? Idk
fading dawn
lol
im not against a slime status
but i want it do something mroe interesting
let me think
whole lynx
Disables a single move
Except Slime Ball.. which it makes base 100 power for some reason
whole lynx
Or maybe it changes your type to the type of the slime that slimed you
whole lynx
Fair
whole lynx
Simple approach:
- Slimed status halves your speed and prevents running from combat
Move-related approach:
- Slimed randomly disables one move at the start or your turn. If that move would be a "Slime" move, it greatly increases that move's power (or upgrades it some other way) instead
Complicated (?) approach:
- Slimed causes damage each turn. If you have slimes in your party, they can reduce the damage, or ultimately even heal you some each turn you are slimed. For enemies, slime status deals 1/16th their max HP per turn, -1/16th per slime in the enemy party (so a single slime enemy that gets slimed will not take damage from slime.. If there are three slimes and one is slimed, it will heal 1/8th its HP per turn).
fading dawn
Related but only kinda: Should we make slime a type??
We could make another class of mines called slime moves
Every skill has normal, plus, and slime variations
whole lynx
Ooo, i like the slime variation
Slime as a type would maybe make sense for the Dual-Typing release?
fading dawn
Adventure time
whole lynx
Every skill has normal, plus, and slime variations
Would you also need Slime Plus, or would one overpower the other?
Like if I spark, would I get to choose the normal move Plus, or does it stay Slimed?
fading dawn
I think it's either-or
And probably slime moves would be less common to get since you would need a status or maybe the king slime
I agree save slime type
But when we do the dual type release we can change slime moves to be slime type
whole lynx
I don't remember how many slime moves already exist, but wouldn't hurt to throw a few more in now and give them slime status stuff
Maybe
whole lynx
I'm lost
fading dawn
Since I can't imagine creating 100 new slime variations of moves without more tools in the toolbox
whole lynx
Hidden stat, or visible?
fading dawn
I think hidden unless affected
The status can make you gain slimy-ness each turn
Then using a slimy move uses it?
whole lynx
Ooo, that's pretty neat. You accumulate slime for boosted power or effect? Or need slime outright just to use the move?
fading dawn
I think having slimy ness makes your moves turn slimy
Maybe one move per slimy-ness
Or maybe just all
whole lynx
Slimyness thresholds:
Slime > 0: 1 move is Slimed
Slime > 20: 2 moves Slimed
Slime > 50: 3 moves Slimed
Slime > 100: all moves slimed
That may be more work tho tbh
whole lynx
That's fair. So any sliminess = a move becomes slimed? Or slime > some value means a move is slimed?
fading dawn
I'm thinking of it more like a counter
whole lynx
True
fading dawn
Or just different
Can also interact with slimes in party
Like they give the regular +3 per turn to regular moves
But then if you are slimed they all contribute, so having different types is totally fine
whole lynx
skinned
fading dawn
Right now they give +3 to their type, so like red slime gives +3 to for each turn
fading dawn
LOL
whole lynx
But then if you are slimed they all contribute, so having different types is tot...
This sounds a bit complicated, maybe
Depending on how you track the bonuses
fading dawn
yea
so far i am sold on the idea of slime moves, a slime counter, and a slimey status
everything else
who knows
whole lynx
Lol
What does Slime ally do again? Could be interesting if maybe it gave buffs to Slime moves or something.. or passively applies Slime to Bech every turn or something
fading dawn
idk, i dont think he does anything yet
whole lynx
whole lynx
How much slime is max slime?
How much slime is TOO MUCH slime?
quiet marlin
So 2 billion roughly
only 2 billion, you say? 
well, i know what my challenge is for the next update
fading dawn
whole lynx
So
I only see an issue with that if you introduced a move that scales with slime, or if there's a way to remove all slime from something
whole lynx
I'm not emotionally prepared for a slime that is "back to normal"
whole lynx
That's "default human skin"?
quiet marlin
whole lynx
it all worked with the new 1 screen biomes
Now slime-ify it all
whole lynx
Is a prerequisite to get to slime biome to still collect all slimes?
fading dawn
Yeah
whole lynx
oof. Have you tried it? Is it difficult?
whole lynx
Asked GPT for some Goo or Slime moves.. I can dig "Globstacle"
whole lynx
Puns make some of the best moves tho
whole lynx
Maybe "Splurt" which is a damaging move that gives you 1 slime.. Sparked it deals more and gives 2 slime, and Slimed the move doesn't give slime but it's as strong as the sparked move and maybe lowers the target's atk by 1? Idk
fading dawn
hmm
i have a lot of moves to make
im just gonna start rn and see how stupid it gets
whole lynx
overworld looks maybe a bit different than I was expecting..
also, that's a lot of beeg slimes
fading dawn
jer hasnt done the overworld at all yet
its just the forrest
with a big slime enemy so you know
whole lynx
idk if 65 hp at level 5 is good or bad
fading dawn
i think its the regular stats from a green slime
whole lynx
Oof. EZ win
whole lynx
@fading dawn i noticed pretty much all the monsters in MP have the same defense. I get why you did this.. But if they're all the same, it may make more sense to just not show them?
whole lynx
I think I'm trippin. Pretty sure you already don't show defense. My b
I was going to say it would open up a slot to show like "Magic Attack" instead of Defense, but since there is no defense to replace, the point is moot
The only real reason you may consider implementing matk in addition to attack.. is if you wanted to add diversity to moves (in the form of physical vs magical) and you wanted to further diversify monsters. Like maybe you want Aioli to have like 35 Atk and 75 Matk so she definitely works better with magic attacks.. Whereas the Fire Armadillo guy maybe has like 100 Atk and 50 Matk or something
But i don't think this is necessary, at least not anytime soon
fading dawn
I programmed magic attack, defense, and magic defense, and never used them
I wanted you to have more of a feel for your damage, and if I added defense it was too many hidden variables
If I did add it, I think they would only have one or the other
Like right now every monster has like 50def so all hits are consistent damage
whole lynx
I think your approach was fine. Would be interesting to see how Magic Attack might feel.. just use Defense as a standard value, subtract it from Atk and Matk
fading dawn
I would make the only option would be like 50 def 0mdef, or 50def 50mdef
So it's more like, are they resistant to magic?
Or maybe 50/50 and 50/100
whole lynx
Hrmm, if 50 is baseline, i think resistance would look more like 75 or 100, and weakness would be like 25... 0 would do dummy damage
fading dawn
Hrmm, if 50 is baseline, i think resistance would look more like 75 or 100, and ...
Correct
I realized right after sending lol
whole lynx
I mean, if it's easy to create a branch, you can always try splitting them up and see how it feels, but no pressure either way.
I think 50 def and 50 mdef would be fine, then each monster/character has differing Atk and Matk to make them unique
fading dawn
I was thinking leave atk as one character start and just have moves be magic or normal
Maybe slime moves are magic
whole lynx
Me and my homies rolling up to use my magical Slime Ball attack on the local fauna
whole lynx
just literally has 100% random moves
Time to replace at least 3 of them with slime moves?
whole lynx
What are slime companion stats again? And did you decide on an ability for them yet?
If you don't have anything particular in mind, if it'd easy enough to implement, one easy-ish option in my mind would be to give all Slime monsters in party +1 to their effect, so you scale much faster for each slime your have.
That is, it you don't plan to just apply slime to the player every turn or something
fading dawn
If you don't have anything particular in mind, if it'd easy enough to implement,...
idk i really like his current power
i feel like i need to keep it around
xD
whole lynx
Which one is it again?
fading dawn
it just has random moveset
can literally get 200 power moves inthe first room
and you have to play around it
its fun to react
just won my first no cheat run of the new biome system
i lost aoili in the final fight, but had super good scaling
whole lynx
Ooo. What was your loadout of monsters? Sugar glider even better now that max level is relatively lower?
fading dawn
yes sugar glider made it to the end
i think they may need nerf
and my scaling was actually green slimes
and burn
fire golems
i kept aoili the whole time as well
fading dawn
redid fatigue today
-fatigue take 1% more damage each time
-only need to click run once even if you have two people in yuour party
-reset fatigue on dragon bosses when you kill one
-use cabbage when fatigue is damaging you
whole lynx
Nice! Was Sugar Glider's old ability given to anything else? Idk just how good it'd be, but if its effect could keep fatigue at bay for a bit (or even reset the fatigue counter), I think its viability skyrockets
whole lynx
Is it on the mushroom guy? I forget what he does
fading dawn
honestly, its more rare per map, but its in every biome now
so you can always pick on up if you need it
whole lynx
Oh true, Mirage
More hp and spd than I would anticipate it to have, but it is also an ally
fading dawn
It also fits theming better
whole lynx
It also fits theming better
Also true
whole lynx
needing??
whole lynx
Oh no 😩 Nerf from what to what?
fading dawn
10 exp per monster to 8 exp per monster
fading dawn
i just need it to not be good all the way until end game
like
allthough
it might be too required early game
idk
whole lynx
So
It'd be a bigger change
But you could make it a consumable ally like cabbage or mirage
And give it a slight buff
fading dawn
that would at least give some strategy
like you want to fill up your party before it happens
good thought
I will not do it now, but that might be good in next version
whole lynx
That's fair. I think 8xp per for now is a fair debuff. Still feels good early game, maybe meh later.
fading dawn
if they still feel mandatory
Jer was super sick last week
Im going to try to get his help this week and get the update out
this one is really going to need balance feedback
whole lynx
Yuh
fading dawn
slime biome is done functionally but no art yet
the way to get there has been modified to just be
a total of 5 slimes in your inventory
why is aioli in the slime biome lol
im bored waiting for jer so im doing the side quests
I just made it so you can use arrow keys or WASD to select paths instead of clicking
should help with steam deck also
whole lynx
Why she creepin
When/where does Slime biome appear if it requires all slimes to access?
fading dawn
thats a new system
im planning to use it when we do some of the quest updates
but basically its paths that go up and down instead of forward
fading dawn
im also planning to add a little signpost object at every exit you can mouse over to get info on where the road leads
it just appears during prcgen if you have the right conditions
thats why i had to refactor procgen
fading dawn
here
whole lynx
I see
whole lynx
Think I may have already said it, but feels like Spider Crabs may be.. more balanced now? Can't super scale, i don't think... can maybe get up to +30 or +40 in a run, I'm guessing? Unless you encounter a shop
fading dawn
I haven't tried a spider crab run
I'll attempt it now
honestly
i think its kinda hard because we have 2 ways of scaling
- base power of moves
- temp stat boosts
but 1 (base power of moves) doesnt really have a big impact unless you are doing 2
and 2 is sometimes so effective that 1 seems not as useful
ive been tryingto think about this lately
whole lynx
By temp stat boosts, you referring to skeletons? Or to Turtle giving +Def and -Spd? Or even the Lizarro giving flat damage buffs?
fading dawn
i mean anything that raises your stats in battle
mostly moves
some animals
like prepare
smash (50 power) does 11 damage to a chicken, if i use prepare and then smash it does 21
i would need like
15 spidercrabs to do that passively
whole lynx
True. At best it saves you a turn, at worst it takes time to accumulate and takes up party space
fading dawn
they do work together. like doing both is definitely better, but 80% of the power comes from the in battle stat changes
like 15 crabs AND using prepare is the msot damage
but oppurtunity cost of getting 15 crabs
whole lynx
Yeah, it's a bit rough
whole lynx
So.. May not be considering this now, but long-term, if you implement Matk and Crabs buff all moves, but Prepare only buffs your Atk and Def (not matk) but you have a matk build, that adds a level of depth.. where crabs are useful in more generic builds
fading dawn
so right now they are totally equal
raising A 2x by using 1 prepare
is as good as getting 15 crabs to raise power by 2x
whole lynx
Yeesh
It's a fine line to tow.. since Slimes also give power bonuses to moves every turn, right?
whole lynx
So update damage calcs to scale more off move power? Or modify multipliers for stat buffs? In pokemon, +1 atk means 50% more
whole lynx
Right
whole lynx
I just had a sus idea... To just super scale down move power so Smash is base 20, lel
fading dawn
i thought of that too
like lowering all the numbers
but
if you do that
early game will be hard to notice a difference
like
whole lynx
Hp would need modification, maybe
fading dawn
getting 3 spiders crabs might round to the same damage
but even worse
people might see a number like "5" on a move
and think they will just do 5 damage to the enemy
like there isnt a damage equation
just like a regular card game where the attack value is the number on the card
like slay the spire
whole lynx
So I don't like the scale down idea
fading dawn
ugh
could dothis
making power 2x as effective
wait this doesnt make sense
because now power isnt in the A/D part
maybe this
or this
THE BLANKS ARE BACK
whole lynx
Lol
fading dawn
so you get a component that just assumes A=D and is fully based on power
and a second component where the A/D is brought in
making the A/D half as effective
whole lynx
In your damage formula, do you add the bonus power to base power before running it through? Or do you add it within the equation, i.e. you have access to it on hand?
fading dawn
i keep them seperate
because the bonus power can be temporary or type specific so i need to know it seperate
whole lynx
Hrmm
On one hand, you could handle damage normally with base power and then add "bonus" power, which maybe scales differently? But that may feel weird in practice..
whole lynx
If we put A/4D for instance...
Let's assume we are level 10, move is not a crit, neutral, we are using Smash (50 power), our Atk is 100, and target Def is 50:
damage = (7 * 50) + (7 * 50 / 2) = 350 + 175 = 525... /50 = 10 + 2 = 12 damage
If we are at x4 atk, then we'll effectively deal double base damage (about 16 after everything)
Idk
I calc'd wrong, whoops
fading dawn
i feel like clarity is important which is why i never did this before
if you get 2x attack
I expect to deal 2x damage
so all these other equations make it hard
you know?
in the end, stepping back, i do think the scaling is interesting, juts lopsided
if you dont realize that, you dont win
whole lynx
Yeah, that makes sense. Maybe down the line the power buffing mons give more bonus power? Like 3 crabs = +15?
3 slimes of a color match 3 crabs after 1 turn, basically, and after that each turn after they scale past crabs
Crabs just seem kinda weak by comparison to other options, granted their buff is available at the start of the battle
fading dawn
Well slimes are type limited too
whole lynx
That too
fading dawn
But maybe it is time for crab buff
whole lynx
2 crabs for bonus? 1 crab for lesser bonus? 👀
whole lynx
2 for 10 is decent. If 2 crabs still show up minimum per biome, that's solid +10 power per biome
fading dawn
i liked the trade off of either get 2 crabs or a crab and a free cape too
whole lynx
Also maybe not a now thing
But you considered "relics"?
Like, when you fight a biome boss, you can either get them on your team, 3-5 sparks, or a random "relic"
Passive thing that gives bonus but doesn't take monster slot
fading dawn
i have
because slay the spire has them
but idk how to do it
to me its functionally the same as a companion
whole lynx
Ooo
Companion ability "evolutions" or compounding?
I think it was discussed a bit at one point
Like.. Aioli LV1 ability is stat change inversion...
Aioli LV2 ability could be, like:
- Keep the stat inversion, ALSO she increases healing effectiveness by 15% or something
- Replace stat inversion with "Heavenly Aura" which just doubles positive stat changes made to you or something
Etc.
fading dawn
maybe next time
Im trying to survive this update
honestly
Im trying to get this game out
then make another turn based RPG to tinker on
since i learned a lot on this
like
I need to decide where monster path 1 ends and monster path 2 starts
like i could kind of extend this game's life forever, with more monsters andp aths and systems
whole lynx
Monster Path 2 is 3d battle royale with branching paths similar to that screenshot you shared from PoE
fading dawn
and just have themed updates
like the "slime update"
or the "multi type update"
but eventually you are not scaling your econ enough in real life
and need a new game
even if its also a turn based roguelike game
whole lynx
Set an end goal. What do you want to add to this? What would reasonably fit in the next year? Anything that doesn't fit here can go in upgraded v2
fading dawn
well
i want to do another update for multi-typing
and another update for proc-gen improvements
and then a final one with an endless mode
whole lynx
Are "Challenge Modes" and "Questlines" beyond scale? Like the quest to bring dead farmer to some witch hut or something in Graveyard?
fading dawn
oh yea
that was in there
i forgot that one
we are soft adding those all the time though
like slime quest
its the elden ring quest route, where you do the quest without the game telling you you are doing it
same with shop keeper
and your mentor being trapped
fading dawn
idk when, i never schedule anything because PoE 2 might come out
lol
jk
but
not jk
im so anti-crunch I dont even schedule >:D
MY BOSSES LOVE ME
whole lynx
I've recently adopted this grindset.. er.. anti-grindset?
fading dawn
so sigma we never get anything done
whole lynx
Heck yeah cries in ADHD paralysis
fading dawn
it is annoying because
it feels like if i was at optimal capacity
i could do each of these updates in like a week
whole lynx
Yeah
I get that
I finished my monster battler thingy in like 2 weeks or something
I think
Gotta lock in
But it's hard
fading dawn
it gets harder
locking in day 1 is easy
but also just like
at the beginning you can push off responsibilities a little
but eventually you gotta make time for the other things
like POE2
😄
whole lynx
Also true
For me getting started feels the most fun but also most tedious
Bc I don't save scripts that I can use save between projects
Which I should fix..
whole lynx
and then a final one with an endless mode
So minimum, here are goals you want to achieve:
- Multi-Type update (would probably involve adding new mons with multiple types, or updating existing mons; I think you said the foundation for multi-type is already in place, so this shouldn't be too hard if so)
- Procedural generation improvements (this one could be as simple or as complex as you make it out to be, tbh.. If you decide to add relics, magic attack, or anything that could be construed as "procedural" or "random" in some capacity, maybe it gets wrapped into this)
- Endless Mode (In theory I think this isn't too hard, but scaling may get weird, and idk what the end goal is.. outside of keeping score for oneself or for a Steam achievement)
Additional (Potential) Updates:
- Challenge Modes (select list of challenges.. to make the run more unique, challenging, or fun)
- More playable characters besides Bechamel
An idea i just had.. that may not be viable, but would fall under Challenges maybe.. is to play as ||the Necromancer|| and start at like Lv30 and every turn ||you spawn a skeleton that will join your team in battle if you go to a monster spot that has another monster plus a skeleton and|| your level will reduce by 1. You try to work your way backwards ||from Graveyard to Forest|| to fight ||Bechamel||, but you have to fight monsters along the way so your level doesn't just drop too far that the fight becomes impossible
fading dawn
That's hilarious
inner barn
haven't read everything ☺️ since it's a pretty long project post, but this game of yours looks really good, ( nice work 😉
inner barn
it's normal to be slow, we're only passionate about game dev right ? it's not like it was what we do for a living. As long as you keep working on it 😉
fading dawn
Lol I need to tweak it
whole lynx
Somewhere between the first and second for blobbiness
whole lynx
Ooo, i like it. Most of the blobbiness is in the back and kind of in the front
fading dawn
I don't like how a few overlap the path, but I'm getting there
fading dawn
todo list: weird dark shadow on the right
todo list: slime collider slightly off
todo list: delete followers when room changes
whole lynx
Softer shadows look nicer imo
fading dawn
jer said that too
idk why we had never changed that
i think it was just that not that many things made a lot of shadows
this is the version live on steam
wow ive neve rplayed the game in 4k before
its cool
whole lynx
4k Monster Path goes hard
whole lynx
Oof. Almost a whole year ago
whole lynx
is that a super auto pets snail?
whole lynx
crazy
fading dawn
jer and i just tested the finishing touches on the new MP
and I think we cooked
we did big QOL stuff
we made 1 new biome, and made each biome 1 screen
rebalanced difficulty/pacing so much
and big graphical improvements too
especially those shadows
and even balance updates
whole lynx
I'm excited
whole lynx
Is this a spoiler? QoL thing?
whole lynx
OooOOooooo
whole lynx
fading dawn
its built
its in QA/QC
xD
goldarium doesnt show up in the overworld
IT GOT KICKED BACK TO TO THE DEV TEAM
whole lynx
im about to go omega ham with chat gpt
What
fading dawn
i tried to use it to make a video
I was supposed to send that to jer lol
anyway
the MP update is soft launched
fading dawn
the expanding testing resulted in quite a few glitches
there are two known "going infinite" glitches
whole lynx
Happy Mother's Day (you should release a "Momster")
fading dawn
Hahahaha
whole lynx
Is it on Beta release? Or official release?
whole lynx
@fading dawn checking in.. >_>
fading dawn
It's on official
But a new version is coming tonight as well
I haven't posted patch notes yet, which is why it's a bit of a soft launch
whole lynx
Ahhh, gotcha. I didn't see anything on the game page
fading dawn
im like 10 minutes away from the next minor update
whole lynx
@fading dawn Rage+ doesn't do anything different than Rage?
fading dawn
xD
inner barn
lol a good idea !
quiet marlin
whole lynx
<a:WHAT:1060353099644026891>
Please say sike
quiet marlin
well, i haven't been to the USA. i cant confirm whether slime town is there or not 
also
(added some debug commands)
(mostly just because i lost my progress because i got a new PC. could help with bug testing too though)
quiet marlin
my variable naming is pretty much the same. if i cant think of a good name then i may as well make it funny lol
whole lynx
well, i haven't been to the USA. i cant confirm whether slime town is there or n...
Oh it's here
whole lynx
also
<a:HACKERMANS:842326702162968596> (added some debug commands)
Access to MP source code.. the dream 🥹
fading dawn
Oh it's here
In Florida specifically
deep nacelle
fading dawn
whats his power
whole lynx
9000
What if he gave +1 power to moves for each spark you have? Or is that too strong?
Wait
fading dawn
maybe that but he takes a spark to do it?
whole lynx
Nvm the idea i started typing was bad
whole lynx
maybe that but he takes a spark to do it?
That could be interesting. Would it show on the overlay/buttons after you click Spark... and show like +X based on remaining sparks?
fading dawn
lol
whole lynx
Maybe Waxcap makes your Light moves deal +10% more damage / Waxcap, but you take +5% more damage from Fire moves (because wax/candle)
whole lynx
The only alternative thing I could think of is having the Candle act as a "Flash" mechanic from Pokemon.. that could reveal stuff on the overworld map by using one (one use per area)
OR
Use it in the overworld to force skeletons to run back towards the start of the zone
fading dawn
waxcap just kills a skeleton in 1 hit then dies
whole lynx
When is this game's next update? And what will it be? 👀
whole lynx
XMAS/KRAMPUS UPDATE, Let's GOOOOOO
whole lynx
I thought of this on my bike ride earlier.. need a new mushroom mon, but this one would have a metallic mushroom cap with a visor, so it looks like a mushroom in a suit of armor. Call it "Knightcap" and give it Acid Spray or something (whatever is most closely related to a drink bc Night Cap)
It'd have an ability like Wolf where you can activate it after a battle, but when you use it, it would heal you like 10 HP or something and consume it
fading dawn
this text is ugly
remove this
Rage+ do nothing new above rage
fix these
fast mode and super fast mode
click to skip first cutscene
standardize around saying "life" instead of health and HP
put play on the right side of this screen, I keep accidentaly clicking back
change atck, def, spd to be rankings F,D,C,B,A,S since these numbers mean nothing to a player
fading dawn
steam achievements
controller support
@whole lynx any ideas for MP steam achievements?
for december update
whole lynx
<@318099836505423872> any ideas for MP steam achievements?
Hrmmm, i forget, does the game already have achievements? Or not yet?
fading dawn
none yet
im going to use a few to nudge them to learn to play
like
"unlock aioli"
"get 1 of each slime"
i just recently learned steam achievements in omashu, so I figured why not add them
whole lynx
Gotcha. Hrmm...
Few that come to mind:
- Defeat a skeleton
- Beat the Final Boss
- Unlock all Allies
- Defeat the Final Boss with each Ally
- Save the Merchant
- Defeat the Final Boss without Adding any Mons to your Team
- Collect 100 Sparks in a Single Run
- Collect 1000 Lifetime Sparks
fading dawn
the no mons one is evil lol
get 10+ of one creature
kill the farmer
im obviously calling that one "you monster!"
battle a red skeleton?
whole lynx
Defeat a Red Skeleton probably
fading dawn
since that means you have to figure out how to get a red skeleton to spawn
fading dawn
they do
ok ok ok
I think thats a decent amount for now
im aiming for dec 15th release
so my priority list is gacha video -> mp release
but we should be trying to do like weekly gacha demo updates to keep wishlists coming
i think
whole lynx
but we should be trying to do like weekly gacha demo updates to keep wishlists c...
Ok
We'll need to establish our list and organize by how quickly and impactful the changes are, probably
autumn whale
Woah
Saturn ping me when there's a new build, I should have time in two to three days
fading dawn
I can make you a build when you are ready
I've already finished a lot of the stuff up there
The big change on this update might be another quest line
Finally doing the hollandaise quest?
fading dawn
I just finished everything that was a bug fix, design improvement, QOL, or balance thing
So that means the 3 things left are
- achievements
- quests
- controller support
controller support is a big maybe though
actually
im cancelling controller support
too much mousing over stuff
WOOO ANOTHER THING CROSSED OFF THE LIST
autumn whale
I can make you a build when you are ready
Yes please
I should say that my new laptop is so weak that it can barely run any 3d game, so it'll also be an optimization test
Ping me when you send it though?
autumn whale
too much mousing over stuff
Exactly
autumn whale
That's also why my game would stay computer only, it's too mouse-y
I do know that MP also works well with touch screen
I sometimes play it through the touch screen of the laptop and it works fine
autumn whale
so it might run better
Do send then
It's 7am here so I have time
whole lynx
Ubisoft instead
fading dawn
I got the aioli joined you screen despite her not joining me
Oh also the kirin's head disappears on death
fading dawn
whole lynx
-# spark
fading dawn
@whole lynx putting in waxcap
+5 light damage for each fire type in your party?
could be cool
sparked moves have +5 power
whole lynx
+5 light damage for each fire type in your party?
Flat damage or base power to moves?
whole lynx
sparked moves have +5 power
This is also cool