Yasashii Growth Theories

[opal rampart]

nice tbh i'm happy you'll be trying again

[sick nova]

I've had the same batteries in for like 3 weeks and am definitely going to be swapping those out as well

[opal rampart]

oh wow, amazing it's lasted so long :O

[sick nova]

Restarting!

[sick nova]

Baby stage was 1 hour and 30 minutes this time

[signal shuttle]

RIP tamabetchi, i guess he finally bought the farm

[sick nova]

Haha

He was 24 because of all my pausing, it was time for a change

[sick nova]

Had it paused for the entirety of yesterday because I was busy but we are back and I even have a P1 running with it now

[sick nova]

It just called for discipline so here it is now, I've been pausing a LOT, partially out of necessity and partially on purpose because I find filling the discipline bar to 100% so hard lol

[signal shuttle]

it definitely seems like without 100% discipline in both stages you are Doomed to TAMABETCHI

[sick nova]

Haha yeah

I like Tamabetchi but I don't want him again, I want somebody else

[dapper nebula]

I was busy and forgot to post updates about this run. Pantarotchi left awhile ago, and I restarted

This time the baby stage was 1 hour 15 minutes. Toddler became mayumarutchi with 12/14 discipline and perfect care. Just evolved into ginjirotchi with max discipline (16/14) and possibly 4 care misses

I think I definitely made 2 misses. There was one morning where I checked on it around an hour after it woke up. Both the hunger and happiness icons were flashing

[sick nova]

I think I might get Mayumarutchi this time because I messed up yesterday lol... I forgot the toddlers wake up at 7am and not 8 so I'd set the time wrong and by the time I checked it it had been sitting with empty hunger hearts for 25 minutes

[sick nova]

Almost there! I’ve had to pause so much to get to this point

I’m still unsure if my one slip up will still allow me to get Meruhetchi again or not, even if not I’ll probably still continue on and see who I get

[sick nova]

Wooo caught him bathing

Had it paused for a while because I was busy but it should be turning into a teen soon hopefully, I definitely messed up this time though so I am not optimistic

[signal shuttle]

were you able to get to full discipline?

[sick nova]

Yes

But the hearts have dropped to 2 empty too many times I think

[signal shuttle]

hopefully it's tolerant of 1 or 2 care mistakes lol.... we shall see

[sick nova]

Lol it just evolved and it’s what I expected

I THINK the killer here was that day I forgot to pause it at night, had the time set wrong, and it was awake with the hunger hearts emptied for 25 minutes before I realized

[signal shuttle]

BROOOOOO

BRUTAL

[sick nova]

Yeah, that was my bad lmao

I’m gonna continue though because I want to take perfect care of this guy and see what happens

[signal shuttle]

i think our current theory is that Ginji's Younger Brother is the best character from eyebrow-fella right?

[sick nova]

Possibly, but someone in here did get Mametchi from him

Mametchi is the second best adult possible

[signal shuttle]

[sick nova]

Starting with 0% discipline even though I had it full in the toddler stage, also brutal lol

[signal shuttle]

geez 💀

have you ever noticed whether the amount of discipline it has after evolving varies?

[brave hawk]

I know it's been ages since it was discovered that Mayumarutchi can evolve into a better character (specifically Jr. Mametchi), but apparently this guy also managed to get one to become Tamabetchi

http://www.ginjirotchi.ca/yasashii/yasblog3.html

Going through this stuff, I'm beginning to wonder if this thing's more like the Ocean than the P1/P2 regarding which teens can become which adults

Ergo, the possibility that only Meruhetchi can become Oshamatchi while only Mayumarutchi can become whatever the worst care adult is

I dunno if it's KabutoOyajitchi or Micheltchi

[sick nova]

Ooo interesting

The owner of that website actually messaged me about my Meruhetchi lol, apparently he'd never seen someone get one before I did

I intend to go back to the Yasashii at some point but I've been a bit busy (it's a bit too needy for the level of free time I have at the moment) - I left off with a Mayumarutchi but the batteries have since died and I didn't replace them yet

[brave hawk]

Reading through this thread's been a wild ride

The lack of discipline calls and suddenly losing all hearts shortly after waking up

The latter reminds me of Kakujo's experience running the Digimon Twin, apparently they do something similar

All jokes aside it's really fascinating, it seems like we actually have to consider if the Yasashii regards letting the hearts empty past a certain point as a care mistake rather than the usual thing with the attention icon turning off

Oh god forbid, if it's like the Connections where doing poorly in games counts as a care mistake

One thing I am curious about considering the unique nature of its icons and alerts is whether or not it can make silent discipline calls - ergo, not allowing you to feed it or play games when its hunger or happiness aren't full respectively

I know that it does refuse food and games during an alerted selfishness episode from one of the videos - IIRC the care icon flashes afterwards to indicate that the Tamagotchi needs to be scolded - but the idea popped up because the GB games do something similar with most disciplinary opportunities, as do the Connections when they gloat about sending a bad gift instead of the currently wrapped item

Much like the Keitai's unique tantrum discipline calls, all of the alerted discipline calls in the GB games are for when the Tamagotchi throws a tantrum for no reason

[sick nova]

Yep, that’s correct

[sick nova]

I don’t think it does because I’m really bad at the game and lose frequently lol

That never stopped me from getting Meruhetchi

[brave hawk]

Yeah that's exactly why I hoped it wouldn't be the case, with most of the vintage games being chance rather than skill

But it's good to hear that it doesn't have an impact on getting Meruhetchi

[sick nova]

I have a few days off coming up, maybe I’ll fire up my Yasashii again

[brave hawk]

Still, it's wild to think that it defies the trends that most vintage versions follow regarding teen evolution in that discipline appears to be the primary factor rather than care mistakes

[sick nova]

Yep, and I think that’s why most people struggle to get Meruhetchi

[brave hawk]

It'd be nice if the Yasashii was as lenient with discipline calls as the Osu/Mesu or Ocean

[sick nova]

As long as you catch all discipline calls and don’t let the hearts drop below 1 empty, Meruhetchi isn’t too hard to get

Also when all the hearts empty upon wake up, filling them immediately does not count as a care mistake but letting them sit for, I think more than 15 minutes, does

That’s why I always pause at night

[brave hawk]

It's weird that all those theories on P1/P2 evolution where people thought that letting the hearts drop below a certain amount counted as bad care ended up being the case for a different vintage model

On that note, do the hearts drop during the sleep period itself or only after the Tamagotchi wakes up?

[sick nova]

Only after it wakes

They don’t move at all during the night

And it’s only the hunger hearts that empty, not the happy hearts

[brave hawk]

Ah, thanks for clearing that up

[crude crescent]

Got a Yasashii not too long ago and was just made aware of this thread. Not sure how much I’ll be able to actually help but good to see this thread here.

[signal shuttle]

He's a bad care character but i think he looks cool with the helmet lol

[crude crescent]

Yeah I laughed when I saw him, I love the helmet.

[opal rampart]

lol it's like an origami hat

[brave hawk]

From what I've heard, the Yasashii is really stingy with discipline calls

Even with perfect care otherwise, a lot of the people here have been stuck with Mayumarutchi

Apparently they also lose most, if not all of their hungry hearts soon after awakening

[crude crescent]

Yeah I saw that bit in the beginning of the thread.

It's good to know, I'll actually pay attention to it when it wakes up lol

[sick nova]

Extremely

And with heart drops

I was only able to get the good care teen by absolutely watching it like a hawk and never letting the hearts drop below one empty

I’d like to go back and do another Yasashii run but I’ve been so busy lately lol, I know I’d fail and just get bad care

[brave hawk]

Man, so much for being the easy Tamagotchi

[crude crescent]

Welp, my guy started crying and flew off in a space ship. So I'm guessing that's a "good" ending?

[sick nova]

Yes, the Yasashii in general doesn’t live that long so the worst care characters only last a day or two

[signal shuttle]

After a hellish experience involving the polarizer film and stripped screws... yasashii gang

It's definitely still pretty faint but much MUCH better than it was before

I wake up at 7 for work anyway so let's see how this goes lol

[opal rampart]

good luck! :D

[brave hawk]

Ooh, it'll be exciting to see this unfold!

[signal shuttle]

Wow the Yasashii's game sucks

[signal shuttle]

Astoundingly, my Hoppetchi has only called for discipline ONCE all day today. Wild

I'm gonna make this a natural playthrough with no pause shenanigans, but I'm accepting that I will probably be getting the same bad care characters everybody else does lol

Haven't made any care mistakes either, I woke up when it beeped at me from the empty hungry hearts after waking up lol

For the next run I want to try to see if I can force discipline up by
(1) changing the time so it goes to sleep
(2) changing the time so it wakes up
(3) seeing if it always calls for discipline shortly after waking up

I don't remember if RJ ever tried that but if it works, it basically becomes trivial to get any discipline you want in like 5 minutes so testing will get a lot easier

('trivial' is relative though, it's trivial if you're a big Tama nerd like everyone on this server, but real people probably almost never saw the good care characters unless they kept the Yasashii paused almost all day every day lol)

final note, i searched for やさしいたまごっち on twitter and saw that japanese people also always get bad care characters lol. As far as we know only some school-age japanese kid in the 90s has ever claimed to get the good ones

https://vxtwitter.com/planet_rc0110/status/1354301559761301507

[river night]

that makes me really curious if there's like,,, japanese wikis for tamagotchi and what those might say

[signal shuttle]

i have not found anything like that when i've searched

although google is such a cesspit where 99% of hits are spam and ads, plus a lot of those sites may not exist anymore

Like it's a minor miracle that mimitchi.com still exists, it's much more likely that sites from that era are dead now lol

[river night]

for sure yeah

i feel like there has to be some equivalent to fan wikis in japan, right? i have no clue how to search for them tho

[signal shuttle]

i don't get the impression that they're as big as they are for english speakers

i've encountered stuff like gamepedia.jp for animal crossing stuff but it doesn't seem as well-organized as what we have in places like nookipedia

[river night]

ohhh interesting

that sucks

[brave hawk]

It'd be really weird if they programmed discipline that way

You'd basically need to mess with the clock instead of letting things flow naturally if you want to get a good character

[signal shuttle]

It's "meta-yasashii", forces you to pause it all day therefore keeping it extremely undemanding

It'd be kind of genius if that were the actual intended design, with Bandai explicitly recognizing that people can and do frequently pause tamas

[river night]

thinking about it, that makes a lot of sense in the context of it being a tama aimed at young kids, they have school and stuff

[signal shuttle]

That's true BUT...

the packaging says 家族みんなでかわいがってね (Cherish it together as a family)

[river night]

huh

interesting

hehe imagine asking your parents/siblings to take care of your tama while at school

[signal shuttle]

that was the charming thing about the old japanese tama log i found, the kid talked about how her parents helped raise them and her dad made stupid nicknames for them

i've posted this here before but this is the rough translation i made of it lol

[river night]

awwww

adorable

[brave hawk]

Damn, they actually managed to get Oshamatchi?

[signal shuttle]

Yes, a couple times lol

I mean they could be making it up, there are no pictures on that log but

I'm pretty sure RJ got really close to oshamatchi, if she'd gotten the final discipline call as the child she likely would have gotten it

[ionic quarry]

If you scroll up through the thread, I’m not sure we fully understand how discipline works on this one. I’m pretty sure it has shown that you have to pause it / manipulate the clock to achieve max discipline at the child/teen stage— but even still you can get a bad care teen.

To my knowledge, RJ is the only one that has managed a good care teen and that required setting a timer for every 15 minutes and never letting the heats dip below just one empty.

The time someone (RJ?) still kept perfect care but the hearts dip to 2 or 3 empty and they got a bad care teen, even with max discipline.

Also the calling is a bit wonky on this one in that all hearts will be empty for at least 15 minutes before a care call goes out.

So I think the thing is we haven’t quite worked out what constitutes a care miss or how they accrue — because RJ’s work kind of indicates they start even when 2 hearts become empty.

[signal shuttle]

i'm skeptical that the hearts going below 1 empty matters, i feel like it's more likely that they got a miss from the hearts emptying after they woke up. But i'd have to go back through the thread to remember what you're talking about

[signal shuttle]

i dont have time to test this rn but i thought this is how the calling worked on the P1/P2, the hearts empty first then it calls later. basically when it goes to empty a heart it realizes that they're empty, THEN calls

[ionic quarry]

Oh that’s interesting! I never knew that’s how P1/P2 act.

[vapid dirge]

Probably late to respond, but yes I remember this working. I would "discipline hack" mine by resetting the time so it would sleep. I believe it would call for discipline 15-30 minutes after waking up.

@signal shuttle This isn't a complete log, but it's from 2022. I outlined on Day 4 the discipline reset you're talking about.

Day 4 1/25/2022:

4:46PM Welp. Carson turned into the eyebrows (bad health) teen.

8:28PM I went out for dinner with my gf and left Carson at home. She's now 0/4 hunger and happiness and with 1 poop. I'm feeding her 4 meals and winning 4 games. I'm also going to test something...

I set her time so she's sleeping, and then set her time to the next morning so it's 9:28AM for her. I'm testing to see if that will force her to trigger a discipline call. I heard somewhere that someone did this to fill their discipline. If it works, I might be able to get the good teen/adult.

11:06PM (12:06PM her time): I waited till she stopped asking for food to feed her 4 meals. I'm going to win 3 games to fill her happiness. Cleaned 1 poop. She also called for discipline too! I'm going to try to make her sleep and wake up again to see if I can get more discipline.

11:10PM I just set her time to sleep, and then awake again at 12:10PM. Let's see if she calls for another discipline.

11:22PM Aha! Carson just called for discipline and that put her at 4 bars. So that's proof that we can boost the discipline meter. However, that does not mean it "counts" towards the character we get.

This also suggests that pausing your Yasashii can throw off its discipline clock which might prevent you from getting the necessary discipline you need for the good characters. This is especially crucial if this "hack" I replicated doesn't count towards the character evolution.

[vapid dirge]

To add, I've seen only a few other pictures on Instagram of the good care teen from a several years back. They're radio silent though and have never shared how they acquired it.

Seen here: https://www.instagram.com/explore/tags/meruhetchi/

It's been since 2022 since I ran a Yasashii, but if I recall it's nearly impossible to reach 100% discipline in the child phase unless you manipulate it with pausing. I believe it calls for discipline within 15-30 minutes after waking up, so you intentionally reset the time to sleep, and wake up, so it forces it to have discipline. I believe that's the only way to succesfully get 100% discipline in the child phase.

In my most recent run, I focused on giving perfect care in the child phase. I gave it 100% care in terms of the "typical" care misses, like how the P1/P2 have. I never let the hunger/happiness drop to 0. I cleaned poop whenever it pooped. I disciplined it to 100% using the "discipline hack", and never missed any additional discipline calls. I only played games and never fed it snacks. I kept it at the lowest weight possible.

This would be considered "perfect" care by P1/P2 standards, but I still got the bad health teen. So there's some other factor counting as care misses that the P1/P2 is not subject to. It's frustrating. I think that may be where RJ is correct, in that you can't let the hearts drop below a certain amount. The only exception is in the early morning when it automatically loses the hunger hearts, where you have to fill them within 15 minutes.

The "mystery" factors that may contribute to it's evolution:

1. Weight ranges - Similar to the Morino Tamagotchi, you may have to have the character within a certain weight range.

2. Pausing time - Pausing too much, or weirdly too little, might affect the evolution.

3. # of games played / success rate - There may be a minimum # of games to play to steer the evolution direction. Moreover, as rhubarb mentioned, it might be related to the amounts of wins vs losses.

4. Random chance - Similar to the Angelgotchi "Lucky Poop", it might just have some random generator factor to it. Or perhaps there is a "heart loss ratio" similar to the Umino. If we can reliably evolve a Meruhetchi, however, this factor is unlikely.

5. Amount of snacks - Too many snacks may lean towards a poor health character.

6. Heart drops - As rhubarb mentioned, old Tama websites suggested P1/P2 care might be affected by the amount of hearts dropped. (I.e. you let the hunger/happiness only drop to 2 hearts, then refill.) This might be the case, where it sounds like RJ affectively filled the hearts when they dropped to 3/4.

[signal shuttle]

In my most recent run, I focused on giving perfect care in the child phase. I gave it 100% care in terms of the "typical" care misses, like how the P1/P2 have. I never let the hunger/happiness drop to 0. I cleaned poop whenever it pooped. I disciplined it to 100% using the "discipline hack", and never missed any additional discipline calls. I only played games and never fed it snacks. I kept it at the lowest weight possible. ... This would be considered "perfect" care by P1/P2 standards, but I still got the bad health teen.

wow what the hell lol

[vapid dirge]

Tell me about it haha. I also had it reset glitch on me once or twice and I put the Yasashii down for a bit. I've been itching to try it out again

[signal shuttle]

The thing i always want to ask though is did you always catch the morning hungry hearts in time lol

I'm sad that the discipline hack + good care by itself isn't sufficient

[vapid dirge]

It's been a year or two so I don't remember unfortunately. I want to say yes, but I just can't remember.

[signal shuttle]

It definitely seems to be the case that you can't get full discipline without pausing a lot though, mine has only called twice (both times after waking up) and it should be evolving later today

[vapid dirge]

Agreed. I came to that same conclusion. So there's two possibilities from that.

1 - Discipline doesn't play an important factor (if at all) in determining if the child will evolve into a good or bad health teen.

2 - You are required to pause it frequently to achieve the discipline level required for a good health teen.

I'm leaning forwards it being #2. I don't know the "lore" or context of the Yasashii aside from it's meant to be easy. It looks like it's meant for children to play with, and children wouldn't be able to bring them to school. So it may have intentionally been designed with frequent pausing in mind so children could care for it without bringing it everywhere.

It also makes sense because this is clearly a "desk pet" product. It's so big and even has a kick-stand to keep on a desk, which most people can't tend to all day. I don't think it was meant to be brought with you everywhere you go, so pausing would have to occur to care for it properly.

[signal shuttle]

agreed

[ionic quarry]

I don’t think they expected pausing, possibly it is more of a design/coding glitch. The set-time pause method has always been more of workaround because (my understanding) of Japanese culture is that these are supposed to be “alive” and you can’t pause living things.

((That’s why none of the Japanese Tamagotchi have had a proper Pause until the sitter and indeed why the Uni doesn’t have an off button.))

Also this would have been after a P1/P2 which was marketed at ages 8+ so their definition of “easy for children” would have been designed with quite young kids in mind, possibly 4-6? I don’t think they were expecting them to Pause them to go to school.

Separate to that, I think I remember RJ mentioning that the batteries drain a lot faster on Pause as well because the LEDs blink non-stop — which case doesn’t seem like they expected or designed for.

Actually now that I’m thinking about it, I’ve always assumed the “easy Tamagotchi” with a bigger screen and the big fat buttons was for younger children.

Though I suppose it could have been designed/targeted for elderly as well 🤔

I don’t have any packaging or manuals to see if they had a recommended age for it.

[signal shuttle]

The packaging says age 3+. So it's for younger children

(other japanese vintage tamas say 12+ for the record; color tamas seem to be 6+ and i only have 1 japanese connection, a hanerutchi, which says 7+)

i would be skeptical of attributing bandai's design decisions to japanese culture generally

[sick nova]

Yep

When I was running mine, I would change the time to make it sleep while I worked rather than pausing because it was the only way the batteries wouldn’t drain super quickly

[signal shuttle]

As expected. My yasashii now has a pair of bushy eyebrows

[brave hawk]

easy tamagotchi my ass

[signal shuttle]

yea i mean i definitely took 'perfect care' in the P1/P2 sense lol (no care mistakes and no missed discplines... it just didnt call enough to fill the full bar...)

but thats not enough...

i should be getting adult on friday or saturday so i'll restart then and try the 'discipline hack' although i'm no longer confident that that will necessarily get me good care characters lol

Oh yea, since it changed before 8 AM, it went back to sleep so i got hit with the 4-empty-hearts 10 minutes later

[brave hawk]

Christ

[river night]

imagine being a japanese child under 5 getting this and only ever getting the worst care character over and over

sobbing crying

[sick nova]

The revival of this thread is making me want to put batteries back in my Yasashii, I’ve got no time right now though lol

I wouldn’t be able to watch it as attentively as I was doing before so I’d just fail

[vapid dirge]

Hahaha right? It leaves me to believe the programming/design wasn't done properly which also may be why this particular model never took off.

[sick nova]

Yeah, definitely

I find it hilarious that people call it the “easy tama” when getting the good care teen alone requires Umino-level attention

[signal shuttle]

I mean in some sense, it still is "easy" lol

It almost never poops, it asks for discipline once a day MAX and at a predictable time

Heart drop rate even in the baby stage is pretty low

The discipline is actually a big deal because that's what requires you to actually have an eye on the Tama all day long. By making it deterministic, they made it easier to ignore it most of the time, just occasionally checking in

Unfortunately the growth chart doesn't reflect this style of gameplay that they encourage 😂

I can almost see how it came to be like this -- the beta yasashii discipline worked like other vintages, but they realized they could make it easier if the discipline calls were once a day at a predictable time

But they failed to make the growth chart & other stuff work well with that lol

[sick nova]

Also yeah, I’m reading back and it was definitely that

I had forgotten about the empty hungry hearts one morning and remembered after like 30 minutes, that was what got me the bad care teen

On one of my Meruhetchi runs I had accidentally let the hearts drop to two once and still got him

[ionic quarry]

Ah it’s good to know it’s not that strict. Thanks for clarifying, I must have had it mixed up!

[signal shuttle]

This is from the wiki

Older Tamagotchis will flash the icon before they poo; pressing it quickly will make the Tamagotchi use the toilet instead.

Is the thing about being able to make them use the toilet accurate?

The manual does say that some characters will light up the toilet icon (it also says chikachikababytchi WON'T do that) so that is likely a real thing. but the Yasashii guide doesn't show special sprites for using the toilet... which makes me think that the toilet thing is a lie

[sick nova]

Hmm, I never noticed that during my runs

[signal shuttle]

i think i caught both hoppetchi and mayumarutchi pooping but i don't remember if the light went off. But the bad care characters may not do it

[brave hawk]

Things would be so much simpler if they just kept the discipline mistake system...

[signal shuttle]

it kind of makes sense that they didn't because of how few calls it makes

[signal shuttle]

Huh... i just realized my yasashii hasn't called for discipline and it's been awake for like an hour

I guess it's possible i missed it but i've been in the same room as it this whole time, except for a few minutes like an hour after it woke up

Wow it just called for discipline now. That was well over an hour after it woke up lol

[signal shuttle]

oh yea one other thing i wanted to mention was that today was the first time i've seen it light up the happy icon and not the hungry icon. so that's marginally interesting

yasashii is like osu/mesu in that the calling for discipline is decoupled from hearts dropping, it calls even on full hearts. so i wonder why it chooses one over the other. It's probably random ig

[brave hawk]

Sometimes I can't help but wonder if the Yasashii ever attempts to refuse food/games without performing an audible discipline call

[signal shuttle]

I was kind of wondering that too but i think RJ would have noticed it

since she had the yasashii on a 15-minute timer at one point

I think that would also be an undocumented feature if it did that because the manual says it will light up a button when it is being selfish

[sick nova]

I never noticed that, no

It never refused anything without the discipline button lighting up first

Also, the only time I ever had it call for discipline more than once a day was in the adult stage

[signal shuttle]

i had it happen when it became a teen but that doesn't really count, because it had gone back to sleep after evolving

it only called once that day as a teen

[fluid brook]

i 've a feeling "easy tama" is some sort of mistranslation or misunderstanding

easy tama could be

A: the tama is spoiled/easy
B: the buttons are easy to push

def not easy raising wise

[vapid dirge]

Well, the definition of "yasashii" can mean gentle, kind, tender, or easy.

It depends on what they're referring to, I guess. Perhaps the characters themselves are supposed to be "kind" or "gentle" characters. Or, perhaps the Tamagotchi is supposed to be "gentle" or "easy" to operate. It's not quite clear. I wish I knew someone who could translate all the Yasashii Tamagotchi literature which could maybe clue us in to more details

[signal shuttle]

No they definitely meant it as easy

The packaging has additional wording like "easy to raise" (育てやすい) on it

After playing it for a while I agree that it actually is "easy" in a sense. Because its heart drop rate is pretty low even as a baby, it almost never poops, and crucially, the discipline calls being at relatively predictable times mean you dont need to pay close attention to it all day, you can just check on it every few hours

The only thing that doesn't make sense in that context is all the hungry hearts emptying when it wakes up lol I can't justify that one

The fact that you basically have to cheat to get any characters other than the worst ones is a separate issue, it is not particularly demanding gameplay-wise (imo)

[brave hawk]

Still, it's really weird that you have to divert from the intented usage to pull that off

[ionic quarry]

It’s possible there’s a glitch in the code somewhere. They were pumping models out so quickly at this time I wouldn’t be surprised if they made a mistake with this model.

[signal shuttle]

my personal speculation is that making discipline times (mostly) fixed was done late in development and they didnt change how the growth system worked to accommodate it. They made it easier at the expense of making it impossible to get most characters in normal (read: unpaused) play

my teen should be evolving today i think. I'm at like 60% discipline so i'm anticipating the oyajitchi

[signal shuttle]

well this is different

I didn't make any care mistakes as far as i know (always caught empty hungry hearts early, or immediately after beeping), and discipline was like 60-70% (i should have counted smh)

he's got that rude mouth thing that the maskutchi characters do lol

gonna be resetting regardless today because i'm eager to get the discipline to 100% lol

[signal shuttle]

Other random thing: i measured the voltage on my batteries after resetting (duracell 1.5V) and they both said 1.57V; i didn't measure them before starting but the other 2 batteries in the pack currently measure 1.59V

i was expecting the yasashii to suck up way more battery than it actually did based on what you guys were saying lol

but it could definitely be true that pausing it is what kills it if that makes all the lights turn on (i didnt pause at all)

[opal rampart]

ooo i love that character! i'm glad you got something a bit unexpected

[signal shuttle]

alright after doing the discipline hack on the child, i remember now that my teen was at 8 discipline before changing

[signal shuttle]

Alright i have the discipline up super high now, it only needs 2 more to be full. But it's been awake for like 10 minutes and still hasn't called yet which is weird. Guess i'll just keep waiting because it should call eventually

[sick nova]

When I was running mine I would sometimes have it call up to 2 hours after waking up, it’s usually not immediate

[signal shuttle]

yea i had it take over an hour in the teen stage, that just seems to be less common lol

(btw my child now did eventually call after about 30-40 minutes, just 1 more left)

[signal shuttle]

Im not gonna take a picture because it's so hard to see, but i am now at 100% discipline 😂 Lets see what happens

[signal shuttle]

Kinda curious if hoppetchi is going to call for discipline this morning even though it's at 100% discipline. I have to leave in a couple hours and I'm feeling kind of paranoid that discipline misses are still a thing somehow so i might change the clock so it goes to sleep just in case lol

actually that might be a good idea just to make sure the hearts dont deplete

[opal rampart]

i agree, best to be safe this time!

[brave hawk]

On the subject of hearts, does the morning hunger depletion take out all four at once or simply speed up the loss rate?

[signal shuttle]

All four at once

[brave hawk]

Yeesh

[signal shuttle]

ok nvm yasashii can call for discipline even when the bar is full already. It just did

[brave hawk]

Fingers crossed the extra calls heighten your chances of getting Meruhetchi

[signal shuttle]

Either i missed the call (possible tbh), or hoppetchi didn't call for discipline today

[signal shuttle]

What the hell

I got bad teen 😂

Well I guess I'm gonna hack its discipline to 100% and see if i get something different this time

Damn

I refuse to believe it matters if the hearts drop to 2 sometimes, if that were the case we'd be getting punished for the hearts emptying every morning

Let's see, I always filled up the hungry hearts right after it woke up, I got the discipline to 100% (possibly > 100% with the call it made yesterday), weight was always minimum, it never beeped for attention because of its hearts being empty...

i might have missed a discipline call today

I wonder if i overdisciplined it, like maybe answering the call at 100% made the code think I actually had really low discipline when it evolved. but then you'd think that would be visible on the discipline meter... hmm...

@sick nova do you remember what disciplines your hoppetchi was at when it evolved into meruhetchi? did you ever do the same thing i did where you disciplined it to "110%"?

I do see that you got Meruhetchi to 110% when you got tamabetchi

I see at least one instance where you said you got Meruhetchi at 75% discipline, and I think one where you only needed 1 more call, but not sure

[signal shuttle]

Mildly interesting is the fact that the two adults that have been documented here with "110%" discipline in the teen stage (Tamabetchi / Ginjirotchi) are the ones labeled "Normal" in the guidebook and they are the only ones that are labeled that

Oshamatchi and Mametchi's Younger Brother are "Healthy", the others (Pantarotchi, Kabuto Oyajitchi, Michelletchi) are "Unhealthy)

[brave hawk]

This is literal insanity

i just

Bandai, what were you thinking?!

[signal shuttle]

I like the idea that it punishes you for going over 100% discipline and that's what my mistake was lol

[brave hawk]

[vapid dirge]

Wait what? It punishes you for going over?

[brave hawk]

Honestly it feels like it punishes you for any sort of mistake

[signal shuttle]

We don't know i'm just speculating

But it's the only thing i can think of

[brave hawk]

I think we might need to start stalking former Bandai programmers and/or take them hostage in exchange for the secrets of the Yasashii

If it means we have to sacrifice solving the Moll and Lora mystery, then so be it

[signal shuttle]

still just waiting for my guy to get a good scan of the mothra ROM, he's been busy lately. That one is just a matter of time imo

I don't see it being very likely that i drop the money to get EXTRA yasashiis especially knowing they'll be destroyed in the process lol. So yeah crime it is

https://tenor.com/view/lets-do-gregg-night-in-the-woods-gif-20028154

[brave hawk]

It's still surreal that all those incorrect care guides for the P1/P2 ended up being far more accurate to the deal with the Yasashii

[signal shuttle]

Alright i got mayumarutchi to 100% discipline, im gonna IGNORE his next call to see what happens. Somebody else here got Ginjirotchi's Younger Brother with the 110% discipline (although they said they got a bunch of care mistakes too)

[vapid dirge]

Awwww dang here we go again 😅

I'm a little stressed about it because the screen seems faint due to the batteries being older. I want to replace them but I'm starting to strip the screw and can't get it open. Any advice on how to get it out? Tbh my screwdrivers themselves are soft metal as well and getting stripped too

[river night]

i'd really recommend getting a good screwdriver kit for opening vintage tamas, i use the ifixit makho kit but there's less expensive ones and prooobably good individual JIS0 screwdrivers you could get, but i wouldn't know which to recommend

i think tall vintages use that size

[signal shuttle]

weirdly, my JIS screwdrivers didn't seem to fit very well on the yasashii, i recommend also trying a phillips head to see what fits the best. I got a much better grip with those (yes i know that doesnt make any sense)

[vapid dirge]

Gotcha, I'll try that!

Also it looks like the baby stage lasted 2hr 8 minutes, minus 30 minutes pause time = 1hr 38 minutes (98 min)

Question for you guys. Is it possible there are 2 forms of discipline? (Praise vs Punishment)? I believe the Connection had something like Praise vs Punishment for discipline.

I noticed the Happiness button (#2, top row, middle button) flashed. I selected Care button (#3, top row, right button) and it filled the discipline 2 bars. I didn't check to see if selecting the Happiness button (#2) would do anything.

[modest rapids]

@vapid dirge I made a video once where I intentionally stripped a screw to show to get it out, I hope this helps!

https://youtu.be/OhqqFf3r8No

[signal shuttle]

Nah, it's just 1 type of discipline. It can flash either the hungry or the happy icon, in both cases it will refuse to eat or play the game. Then you discipline it

[sick nova]

No, actually all the times I got Meruhetchi the discipline wasn't full at all

I think it was between 60-80% for all of them, ie. more than half but also not full

Sorry for the late reply, I don't check discord as often as I used to

[vapid dirge]

So did you pause at all? And did you alter the time to boost the discipline since it generally calls after waking up? Or did you only respond to the "natural" dicipline calls?

[signal shuttle]

Getting really curious now if maybe TOO MUCH discipline is bad...

[vapid dirge]

Right lol? Genuine question if any of us have tried 0% discipline with perfect care to see what happens

[river night]

fear: what if the programming is just Bad

[vapid dirge]

Yeah that's my fear too, like it just feels off. This model obviously didn't take off which is sad, and there's so little litearture about it it's difficult to know.

I wonder if there are any japanese reviews from 1998 reggarding them

[river night]

ooo that might be worth digging for

[vapid dirge]

I wouldn't even know where to look tbh

[river night]

same

the yasashii is such an enigma and it would be frustrating and funny if it was just poorly programmed

[sick nova]

I paused a LOT

[opal rampart]

i recall people here doing a lot of research a while back, digging up as many old logs as they could find to try to find tips on how to get the good characters etc. there were so few of them...

[sick nova]

I would pause whenever I couldn't give it my full attention

I probably only had it unpaused for maybe 4-5 hours a day because I do work full time

I didn't ever alter the time to boost the discipline though

[vapid dirge]

Are there any common websites where logs would be posted, especially from early internet era?

[opal rampart]

they were from random personal websites as i recall

[sick nova]

I wonder if maybe it can somehow tell if it's being manipulated to increase the discipline or not

No idea

I paused a lot, which was the only way I could get the discipline above half, but I didn't technically change the time to get more calls

[vapid dirge]

I kinda assumed it was more like how the age increases but it's not really "older". So you can have it be 99 years old but it will still have its own internal clock for when evolutions should occur

[signal shuttle]

i'm definitely gonna do more runs where i go to 100%, then 1 less than 100%, etc to see if I get different results

[brave hawk]

These are the only old-ish Yasashii logs I know of
http://www.bookmice.net/fleur/yasa.html

[signal shuttle]

They don't say what teen they got pantarotchi came from. But we can probably guess lol

[brave hawk]

http://www.bookmice.net/fleur/diary74.html#patootie

Mayumarutchi, apparently

[signal shuttle]

oh yea i do see that

That site rules fr

[brave hawk]

It's one of the GOATed vintage Tamagotchi sites

[vapid dirge]

Do yall ever remember a website Tamagotchifan.com? It migrated to http://www.tamagotchi.de/index2.html a long time ago

Looked like this. I miss it so much

[brave hawk]

I might have seen it ages ago?

[opal rampart]

yes! i love revisiting these ancient sites

[sick nova]

Same

[signal shuttle]

Man its been like a full 20 minutes and bro still wont eat or play games. I don't want 110% discipline smh

He did eat a snack though which is kinda funny lol

[signal shuttle]

So is it actually possible to miss a discipline call or does the tama just refuse to eat food or play games until you discipline it

Because i'm pretty sure i waited a full 30-40 minutes before giving up and disciplining

[signal shuttle]

Ginjirotchi's Younger Brother

Lemmy got the same character a while back (with same discipline in the teen stage) except they said they made care mistakes. I claim that I gave perfect care

I really like this guy but science calls. I will probably reset tomorrow lol

My radical theory is that discipline is the only thing that matters for evolution, care mistakes don't matter. And you get punished for disciplining too much, at least in the child stage. (possibly in the teen stage too since e.g. RJ got tamabetchi for 110% discipline)

so i need to try different discipline levels for the child -- 100%, then 1 less than 100%, etc

the book backs this theory up a tiny smidgen in the little Q&A section where somebody said they wanted Michelletchi but got Ginjirotchi's Younger Brother instead. The answer was 'discipline is the key'

[ionic quarry]

Is it the camera, or is your shell kind of sunburnt? I’ve seen other blue tamas go that way, sort of greeny-bluey; I really like it!

[signal shuttle]

Yeah it's super sunburnt lol, but it looks good tbh

Only issue is i think all the sun exposure made the screen super faded too -- and i did swap in a new polarizer lol

[signal shuttle]

Alright i just killed ginji in his sleep. Voltage said 1.566 so again the batteries are still in pretty good shape

I guess the move this time will be to discipline hack, but leave room so that it can call 2 more times over the next 2 days

No 110% nonsense

[ionic quarry]

Excited to see the results of this. We have a bank holiday weekend so I’m tempted to start mine up again tomorrow.

[signal shuttle]

i think it'd be kinda weird if answering calls past 100% actually caused different behavior, so i'm expecting/hoping it will be the same result. Then i'll restart again if it's mayumarutchi

[sick nova]

I'm also tempted to start mine back up lol

This is terrible and 100% not how you should store a Yasashii but it still has the low batteries in it from last run

The fact that it's been on the low battery screen for like 3 months though and the screen's still on... 🤔

[signal shuttle]

yea they last longer than you guys led me to expect lol

[sick nova]

Except when you pause it because the flashing light makes the batteries drain

[signal shuttle]

Right yea, that makes sense

[brave hawk]

On the subject of flashing lights and pausing, I have an idea that might just end up being a waste of time

What do you think might happen if you paused a Hoppetchi right before it's supposed to go to sleep, then set the clock back to its wake time?

Would it be possible to avoid the morning hunger loss, and potentially make it easier to net Meruhetchi provided that the hearts are well-attended to otherwise?

[vapid dirge]

I'll test when I get home from my vacation!

[sick nova]

Yes, it is possible to avoid the morning hunger loss that way, but by doing that you would miss the morning discipline call

[signal shuttle]

actually that will come in handy for testing evolution at different levels of discipline

because once i get to the level of discipline i want i can just stop having it call for it, with the downside of the batteries running down faster

but being able to stop discipline calls may be unexpectedly important given that when i tried to ignore the call, it was there for like 40 minutes 😂 it may have starved to death before letting me feed it

[brave hawk]

Like rhubard said, that sounds like it could be something that can be used as an advantage depending on the circumstances

[sick nova]

Ooo yeah, good point

[signal shuttle]

ive taken legitimately bad care of this child, ive let its hearts empty 3 times lol (and it wasn't calling when i took care of it = i probably missed the call). This is bad science i should probably restart

You know what. I realized i've never seen the yasashii get sick before lol

[opal rampart]

can it even get sick?

[signal shuttle]

It can yeah

#1083399069252206622 message

it might be how it works in modern tamas where they really only get sick if you're taking bad care

[opal rampart]

oh yeaahhh!! the lil blanket 🥺

[signal shuttle]

[brave hawk]

I guess one way to find out what can make a Yasashii sick would be to turn the place into turd town

[sick nova]

They also get sick as they age, like the P1/2s do

Those pics of mine where it was sick was because it was aging, not because of neglect

[signal shuttle]

Right that's kind of what i figured

[signal shuttle]

exactly 100% discipline and got the bad teen... but this run was kind of contaminated because i let the hearts empty a few times lol. Unclear if the bad teen is because discipline was too high or because care was too bad.

RESET

(regardless this does mean the wiki is wrong, because it currently says that meruhetchi is high discipline and mayumarutchi is low discipline)

[brave hawk]

Might be the case

I'm really starting to consider the possibility that care mistakes are either registered when the hearts reach a certain emptiness or when the call itself goes out

[ionic quarry]

This has always been my theory — I think a care mistake registers when the unit calls out, or possibly even earlier when all the hearts are empty. We do know that it doesn’t call out immediately on empty.

I started mine up on Saturday so currently at age 3. I’ve not been playing with the time so am only at 3x discipline calls.

Basically I am setting a timer and fill the hearts every 45 minutes — usually there are 1 or 2 hunger/happy hearts depleted in this time frame.

Does anyone remember how long it takes to age up to teen?

[ionic quarry]

Alright, I definitely had perfect care, happy/hunger hearts never dropped below two.

Caught all discipline calls - only asked for 3x calls.

I didn’t manipulate the time at all.

I also didn’t feed any snacks and kept weight to a minimum

[signal shuttle]

yea i think you HAVE to manipulate time to make it call enough to get meruhetchi

my last run was a wash but this time i'm doing perfect care and exactly 100% discipline

[brave hawk]

God this is gonna be Tamagotchi Park all over again

so

much

inconsistency

and

lack

of

clarity

Bandai why did you do this

[ionic quarry]

I wonder if it’s a glitch in the coding that it doesn’t call for discipline more often.

And maybe that’s why everyone struggles to get good characters.

And maybe that’s part of the reason they pulled them from the market so quickly in ‘98.

Just a guess

I’m not sure if I want to repeat again with discipline hacking or just keep carrying on 🤔

[signal shuttle]

nah i think they made the discipline like this on purpose

because the randomness of discipline calls is a major factor in the difficulty of vintage tamas, in the sense that you constantly have to keep your eye on it to make sure you don't miss a call

making most of the growth chart inaccessible without cheating was probably an unintended side effect lol

[signal shuttle]

i'm still thinking that you get punished for disciplining too much, so am still expecting the bad care teen despite taking better care

[sick nova]

I have some free time today, I'm tempted to start mine back up

[signal shuttle]

One thing i'm kind of interested in is: try taking bad care of the child (i.e. let hearts completely empty sometimes) but get it to a discipline you got meruhetchi at last time

[sick nova]

So far I've had Meruhetchi 3 times, but the discipline wasn't 100% at evolution any of those times, I never managed perfect care and 100% discipline because I didn't have time to get it full lol

[signal shuttle]

yeah exactly, 100% discipline may be bad

so maybe that's also why you didn't get oshamatchi lol, you actually needed 1 less than full discipline

bc iirc it was at full at the teen stage when you got farmer boi

[sick nova]

Yeah, that was when it was 110%

[signal shuttle]

Took 5 hours for hoppetchi to make its last discipline call today lol. Should be evolving later today

Discipline is now 100%. I am expecting Mayumarutchi -- care has been perfect but discipline is too high. Thats the theory

Then reset and try again for 1 less than 100% discipline

[signal shuttle]

As expected. Eyebrow boi

this time i definitely took perfect care so im calling it. 100% discipline BAD in child stage

(also 110% but we dont know yet whether that actually makes a difference, it has not so far)

btw discipline is 0 so i kinda doubt type 1/type 2 is a thing for yasashii

[vapid dirge]

What % will you try next run? I think a 50% or 75% threshold would be useful

[signal shuttle]

i'm just going to keep going down from 100% so i will do 1 less than that now

so 12/14

i think RJ has gotten meruhetchi with that level of discipline before so i'm expecting to as well

but eventually we would want to find the minimum discipline needed to get him as well (assuming it's a range)

[sick nova]

I have yeah

[brave hawk]

Does the bar increase by two points like on the Ocean instead of the usual vintage 25%?

[signal shuttle]

Yep

[brave hawk]

Huh, that's neat

[signal shuttle]

the P1/P2 store the discipline as a 4-bit number and the yasashii is probably the same, which is why the max # of ticks is 14 like that

[modest rapids]

Do we have like a sum up for all the techniques that has been proven to work 🤔 I was thinking can we have some sort of gameplay guide out of what we have discovered so far?

[signal shuttle]

im not teallen i'm not gonna write a giant google doc. I'll probably just update the wiki

[unborn shoal]

I demand a Google doc

[signal shuttle]

the "tricks" we have so far are:
(1) discipline hack (put to sleep & wake up over and over to make it call for discipline a desired # of times)
(2) insomnia hack (change the time so that it never goes to sleep = it never calls for discipline)

not proven that discipline is actually the only thing that matters for evolution but it seems like it should be pretty easy. just take bad care and show that you get the same character that somebody else got at that discipline level with good care

[sick nova]

I had been working on one but kinda forgot lol

I still intend to start my Yasashii up at some point this week to do some experimenting

[signal shuttle]

Do it!!

[ionic quarry]

Slight change in strategy for the teen stage; I still kept perfect care, definitely did not make any care mistakes. I knew he was going to evolve today so I capped out his discipline — I waited until today so that I did not “overfill” the bar, just in case that’s a thing.

The Wiki says below average care but that’s definitely not a thing, I kept him on a 1 hour timer and the hearts never dropped below 2 empty.

[signal shuttle]

yea the wiki is for sure wrong

at least it doesnt say kabuto oyajitchi is a secret character anymore though

so you got the same character i got when i 'overfilled' the bar

really curious what character you get if they have 1 less than full discipline lol i bet that's the sweet spot for the best characters

[signal shuttle]

Meruhe. With 12/14 discipline as child

I did not take perfect care of this child either for the record there was at least 1 instance where i forgot about it and came back to see all the hungry hearts empty lol

Maybe 2 times.

so for this run i actually only want to hack the discipline up by 1 because iirc the teen should call for discipline 3 times naturally and it started at 4. I want to see what i get at 12/14 again

(since 14 is probably Tamabetchi)

One other thing to mention. The yasashii book does explicitly list a starting discipline for all characters including the teens. So that seems like another signal to me that the type 1/type 2 system is not a thing on yasashii, given that other vintages indicate type by using different starting disciplines

[brave hawk]

Do they match up with the discipline levels they've started at for you guys?

[ionic quarry]

Just to summarise are we thinking the way to Meruhetchi is at least 10 or 12 discipline but NOT 14 (max)?

((Maybe 8 discipline works but untested yet. 6 definitely does not work.))

And perhaps care mistakes aren’t as big of a deal, at least 1-2 might be okay.

I want to start over and try again but I’m also a bit attached to Ginji, he’s my favourite and his animations are too adorable

[signal shuttle]

im still thinking that care actually doesn't matter for evolution lol, as long as you dont kill it. Radical theory

yea i guess if you have gotten mayumarutchi on 6 discipline then it's probably 8-12. 14 definitely does not work

[signal shuttle]

i've only actually checked it for the teens, but its probably accurate

[brave hawk]

At the very least, the teens are where starting discipline matters the most

So if it's alright there, like you guys said that will quell any type system debate

[signal shuttle]

i mean theres always a chance but it feels pretty unlikely. Im going to assume that it's not a thing

[sick nova]

Nice!!

So I guess we can at least say 12/14 discipline + good care probably equals Meruhetchi

[signal shuttle]

im gonna take crappy care in the next run bc i wanna prove that care doesnt matter lol

[brave hawk]

Experimentation is always good

[opal rampart]

i'm most excited for this run!

[signal shuttle]

Yeah i should be getting an adult tomorrow. Def excited

[opal rampart]

niiicce

i'm surprised your batteries are lasting so long

[signal shuttle]

Its probably because im not pausing at all. Also i'm not using rechargeable batteries

[opal rampart]

good point. what brand do you use?

[signal shuttle]

duracell

[opal rampart]

that certainly helps! those batts are beasts

[ionic quarry]

I’m not sure the Yasashii can handle rechargeable batteries anyway.

Rechargeable batteries are usually ~1.2-1.3v and the Yasashii is greedy and wants the full 1.5v

[vapid dirge]

I mean, to be fair, isn't there a similar theory to the Oceangotchi? Like I think you can literally not fill it's hunger or happy meters and still make it to an adult as long as you prevent it from being attacked

[vapid dirge]

Also, @signal shuttle, how many discipline calls does the Child stage receive? I'm trying to know how many times I need to do the discipline hack to reach the 12/14 discipline levels

[signal shuttle]

True. It's a bit different for the ocean tho because, ocean can survive if all you do is discipline it but it won't become the best characters

Child stage calls for discipline twice without pausing (so i guess with its sleep schedule that means it has about 24 hours total hours of being awake)

[rugged rune]

where did you guys get your yasashiis from 😭 hope fully one day i am rich enough to get one

[vapid dirge]

I got mine from here a couple of years ago. The prices are a lot more reasonable than eBay, which prices them at like $750+ usually lol. You do, however have to pay a few extra fees since this is a Japanese auction website

https://buyee.jp/item/search/query/やさしい/category/2084064687?translationType=1

[rugged rune]

oh okay thanks :)

[sick nova]

I got mine from Mercari JP about 3 years ago, it was expensive but definitely a lot more reasonable than eBay prices (I paid about $300)

[vapid dirge]

Sadly eBay is mostly duplicate/fake posts to make the prices look higher, and they overcharge in the $750 and usually $1000+ range, it's just absurd. I also only really see the Yellow ones lately, occasionally the Blue. The White ones are really rare now adays

[signal shuttle]

Come on meruhetchi... make ur discipline call...

im not expecting it to evolve until later today though

alright cool just got discipline call. so it should evolve with 12/14 discipline probably this evening (i was out for like 4 hours this morning so i changed the time to keep it asleep)

[vapid dirge]

Good luck!!! My batteries died but I finally replaced them. Started my run yesterday and I'm logging it. I'm shooting for good care with 12/14 discipline this time to see if I get Meruhetchi like you. Probably will evolve in a day or two

[brave hawk]

I swear to god, I am gonna flip the day that somebody here gets Oshamatchi

[signal shuttle]

Meruhetchi evolved and i got...... !!!

Ginjirotchi younger brother lol

RESET

actually i'll start tomorrow

[vapid dirge]

What were his stats and what method did you use to get Ginji jr? Just curious so I can try a different method on my run 😄

[signal shuttle]

12/14 discipline from meruhetchi

[signal shuttle]

Mildly interesting for this new baby hour: it was sick after it evolved! (probably sick before evolving but i wasnt paying attention lol)

i fed a LOT of snacks so if yasashii works like P1/P2, that made it get sick lol. But if you do baby hour with no snacks at all, you dont normally see that

[vapid dirge]

Question, has anyone run Meruhetchi with 14/14 discipline + perfect care? What adult did they get?

It seems like @signal shuttle's last run was 12/14 with good (?) care, and they got Ginji. So I'm wondering which direction to take Meruhetchi if I get him. Either low discipline (< 12) or full 14/14

[signal shuttle]

RJ got tamabetchi with "16"/14 (1 extra discipline after bar is filled) which we have no reason right now to think is different from 14/14

i was gonna do 10/14 for this run

[vapid dirge]

Maybe discipline doesn't matter as much for the Adult then, and care mistakes do? I just don't know lol

[signal shuttle]

im still thinking discipline is the only thing that matters tbh

[vapid dirge]

I just discipline hacked my Yasashii to 12/14. I suspect he will evol e either later today or early tomorrow 😄 I've given him good care. I let hearts drop a bit but he's doing well. Weight skyrocketed due to the discipline hack & having to feed 4 meals each time he wakes up

[ionic quarry]

Ginji sang his last song before returning home tonight 🎶

[vapid dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/crying-meme-black-guy-cries-sad-man-thank-god-for-my-reefer-hood-news-gif-24902056

[ionic quarry]

Interesting that he came from 14/14 from Mayumarutchi as well.

[signal shuttle]

yeah i was NOT expecting that result

tbh i was expecting to get oshamatchi

[ionic quarry]

Maybe Ginji is a better care character than we give him credit for

It kind of makes sense, he’s the second best character on a P1?

Ditto on the Angelgotch and he’s a top tier character on the Pix.

[signal shuttle]

True i'm just wondering where Mametchi's Younger Brother comes into play lol

[signal shuttle]

me when the bathtime bop hits

[vapid dirge]

https://tenor.com/view/johncena-john-cena-fandango-dancing-gif-8075569

Doing great with my little Yasashii today! I named him Lee after Rock Lee from Naruto 😄 12/14 discipline now and just chilling. He's so easy to care for atm, maybe loses a few hearts each hour and thankfully is never sick

[signal shuttle]

Ur dog is like "what am i chopped liver?" 😂

i feel like hoppetchi can empty out all its hearts in an hour but i dont track it that closely lol

[vapid dirge]

Yeah it's like just over an hour. I check about once and hour and usually he's at 1/4 hunger, and 1/4 or 2/4 happiness

[brave hawk]

I remember seeing someone get Jr Mametchi from Mayumarutchi, but I can't remember if that was here or somewhere else

That's what got me wondering if the adults are like the Ocean in that all but the best and worst are mutual

But we won't have much of a chance of finding out until we have a reliable method of getting Meruhetchi

Or if by some miracle, somebody gets a Mayumarutchi to evolve into Oshamatchi somehow

Oh, here we go
#1083399069252206622 message

[signal shuttle]

I think we can pretty much conclude at this point that 12/14 discipline is likely sufficient to get meruhetchi every time. I'm trying 10/14 discipline for hoppetchi this time

[brave hawk]

It's probably pointless asking this considering the Mayumarutchi situation, but would a Hoppetchi with 12/14 discipline and sufficient neglect still evolve into Meruhetchi?

[signal shuttle]

Interestingly lemmy said they got mametchi from mayumarutchi at 110% discipline .... which is the level i got ginji at 🤔

i dont think we know that for sure yet but my personal guess is still Yes

[brave hawk]

It might be time to set up a doc to track discipline calls if there isn't already one

If the same discipline level and teen can yield different adults, it'll be evidence to suggest care factors in to some degree

[signal shuttle]

or that the discipline in the previous stage matters

[brave hawk]

Although that wouldn't leave much wiggle room for Meruhetchi

[signal shuttle]

God i hate the yasashii game

you can get through it fast but it's so annoying that you only win like 1/3 of the time lol

[vapid dirge]

I lose more than win xD

[brave hawk]

It's left or right ramped up

[sick nova]

Yeah it's brutal lol

I have been sick for the past few days which foiled my plan to start my Yasashii up but I may tonight

[vapid dirge]

Had to pause my yasaahii today for work, but tomorrow I can watch over him. He should evolve into a teen tomorrow which is awesome! He's 12/14 discipline still. I'm going to have to set his time to awake rather than allowing him to naturally wake up to avoid the discipline call in the morning. Hoping for meruhetchi!

[signal shuttle]

At 10/14 discipline I got.... Mayumarutchi 😂

[sick nova]

Let us begin, first Yasashii run in almost 6 months

I really did miss running this, as much grief as it gave me LOL

[signal shuttle]

RJ when you got Meruhetchi I know you said you got it once with 12/14 discipline... did you ever get it with 10/14

[sick nova]

I can't remember but I feel like I did, I can check

[signal shuttle]

i didnt explicitly check the discipline before it evolved but im pretty sure i remember it calling this morning so it should have been 10/14

debating whether i want to reset or see who i get from this guy....

[sick nova]

Hmm there was a time I mentioned getting Meruhetchi with 75% discipline, that might have been 10/14

I should have been more clear LOL

Baby stage officially starts now

I can try doing 10/14 discipline with this one and see what I get

[signal shuttle]

it preserves my sanity a bit knowing you're not sure lol

i mean i really made no mistakes in caring for this guy -- during the week i get up when the child does and i work from home so it's easy to check in frequently

[signal shuttle]

I think im gonna get full discipline on this mayumarutchi to see who i get. If it's possible to get different adults from mayumarutchi at the same level of discipline, maybe there IS a type one/type two thing happening even though it's less visible

(if meruhetchi is truly only available at 12/14 then its not likely it has any types ig)

[sick nova]

About 1 hour and 30 minutes for this baby stage

It just called for discipline pretty much immediately after evolving

[vapid dirge]

Since RJ is trying 10/14 I may try 8/14 next round

[ionic quarry]

Mayumarutchi again 😭😭

I had 12/14 discipline. I may have made one care mistake, when discipline hacking I forgot to feed him once until he called 😪

[sick nova]

Yeah that would've done it

[brave hawk]

Welp

Meruhetchi is officially the hardest teen to obtain of all time

[sick nova]

The Yasashii is both one of my favourite tamas to run and the bane of my existence at the same time lol

It's like the ocean, the challenge makes it fun but it's so frustrating

[vapid dirge]

NOOOOOOOOOOOO

[signal shuttle]

Im just going to tell myself that you actually had 10/14 discipline

[sick nova]

RIP

[vapid dirge]

I got Mayumarutchi with 12/14 discipline, and "good" care. I maybe made 1 or 2 care mistakes maximum. I did let the hearts drop more than 1 multiple times. Sheesh this is frustrating lol

[signal shuttle]

[sick nova]

Yeah I typically don't let the hearts drop below 1 at all, that's what's worked for me with getting Meruhetchi

There was one time that they dropped to 2 twice and I still got him

[signal shuttle]

i'm just going to tell myself that you actually had 10/14 discipline

[vapid dirge]

This is the same thing that happened to me which resulted in Mayumarutchi

[signal shuttle]

I definitely let the hearts empty at least once when i got meruhetchi

Like fully empty 😂

[sick nova]

Interesting

[ionic quarry]

I wonder if there’s a Type 1 Type 2 system going on.

[sick nova]

I never let the hearts empty because I was too scared to

[ionic quarry]

I always wondered if the length of the baby stage has anything to do with it?

[vapid dirge]

So to take stock of when @signal shuttle got Meruhetchi:
-You specifically got 12/14 discipline utilizing the discipline hack
-Only used Games to fill Happy meter
-You did let hearts drop to empty at least once
-Minimized the weight as low as possible
-Roughly 10 years due to Discipline hack/pausing

[sick nova]

Never letting the hearts drop, pausing at night so I can catch the morning hearts emptying, and 12/14 discipline is how I was able to get Meruhetchi consistently

[vapid dirge]

It may have a RNG factor like the Oceangotchi heart loss ratio

[signal shuttle]

• yea
• Games only
• Yea
• Min
• Idk like 10 probably lol

[sick nova]

I got him 3 times in a row, using that method every time

[sick nova]

I thought about that but it's hard to say

Not enough info/documented runs to prove it either way

[sick nova]

With this run, I'm doing all this except with 10/14 discipline

[vapid dirge]

My baby stage was 125 minutes this time around

I did feed snacks during it as well

[sick nova]

125 minutes wow, that's long

Mine was only 90 minutes

[vapid dirge]

I think I'm going to have to get super strict on logging this to figure out what's going on. Like heart drop ratio in baby stage, length of each stage, etc

Yeah this one felt longer for sure

[sick nova]

I always feed snacks in the baby stage, even on the runs where I did get Meruhetchi, but I strictly play games afterwards

The game is frustrating but I've built up a tolerance for it, sort of like the Ocean game lol

[ionic quarry]

I’ve done this same this run, snacks for the baby, games after. That said, he was a bit chonky from the discipline hacking.

[vapid dirge]

Mine was too. He got up to 30lbs and I had to play games for awhile to get him down to 10 again

[vapid dirge]

I just tune out to it most of the time lol. I usually press one button nonstop until I win. I'll switch between buttons every few games as to not put too much wear & tear on a single button

[sick nova]

That's what I do

[vapid dirge]

Blegh. Now that I think about it, I just can't imagine there's a RNG element to it... If there was a similar Oceangotchi "heart loss ratio" scenario, or if the length of the baby stage affected the evolution, I think we would still see some Meruhetchi's with the amount of runs we have done, just based on probabilities.

The fact RJ and Rhubarb have employed a specific strategy and repeatedly gotten Meruhetchi means it's controllable, we just don't know which levers to pull, or buttons to press yet.

So far we think it's based heavily on discipline. It seems higher discipline is better, but not too much. <@&588021255144210464> Have you used your normal method of 1 heart drop max with 14/14 discipline? What about 16/14 discipline? What happened during these?

I don't think it's just discipline though, given Jackson and I just recently got Mayumarutchi with 12/14 discipline and good care. From the sounds of it, Rhubarb did the same thing as us but got Meruhetchi. Either there is some RNG or Rhubarb did something slightly different that Jackson and I didn't, or vice versa.

[sick nova]

I've never discipline hacked, the times I got Meruhetchi the discipline was 12/14, possibly 10/14 for one run but I wasn't clear enough when writing things down, definitely never full

I just pause a lot, I didn't manipulate the time for more calls though

I'm busy enough this week that I won't need to discipline hack, I only have like 3-4 hours a day it'll be unpaused so that gives me enough time to build up the discipline anyway

The reason I never got to 14/14 discipline was because I never had time with my pausing method haha (ie. it evolved before the discipline could be filled), I can try it out some time though

Because this is what I said the second time I got Meruhetchi, I think that implies my first one had 10/14?

It's weird to say and I think I did mention it before, but I do wonder if it can somehow tell when the time is being manipulated to increase discipline calls

That would make it even more brutal if that's the case lmao

[vapid dirge]

I personally don't think it would? I mean in terms of programming, it would have to have some sort of parameters to determine if it's being manipulated versus normal pausing. That would likely be based on n number of "pauses" or "time adjustments" within t time frame. But I just don't think they would program that type of check into a childrens toy lol

[signal shuttle]

That would be a lot of effort to go to for very little reward lol

[sick nova]

Yeah that's probably true lol, I just thought of stuff like the connection V4 and how you can't manipulate the time to get more job pay but the Yasashii's a whole different beast anyway

[river night]

i really wish i could help contribute to this with how much free time i have for watching my vpets bcndnd

the yasashii is just so expensive

[brave hawk]

Same here

[vapid dirge]

Question: has anyone just straight up tried raising the child with perfect care but 0/14 discipline?

My fiance (who doesn't know much about tamagotchi) suggested that maybe "yasashii", or "gentle/kind/easy" means we need to be gentle to the Tamagotchi itself, and therefore discipline it less?

It would be interesting if it means you have to be gentle to the Tamagotchi rather than the Tamagotchi is "easy" to care for lol

[brave hawk]

That vaguely rings a bell

And if I'm remembering things right, it's just one of the many, many ways to get Mayumarutchi

[signal shuttle]

If thats the case then its a hidden meaning, because the manual and stuff specifically implies yasashii is referring to the thing being easy to raise

Although it is true that i've only gotten mayumarutchi with full discipline

[vapid dirge]

Yeah, I can't reply much right now but I used Google to translate the packaging and instructions and it is clearly designed to be easy for children and elderly. So disregard

[sick nova]

That would be an interesting experiment, although the Yasashii makes it very difficult to deliberately ignore discipline calls

[signal shuttle]

yea you'd have to never let it sleep and pause it instead. Insomnia hack

[sick nova]

Got the discipline call only 20 minutes after waking it up today which is nice lol, I hate waiting around for hours for it to call

[vapid dirge]

Take the translations eith a grain of salt, but the instructions clearly illustrate 14/14 discipline as "good boy".

Also interestingly, they frequently use Meruhetchi in the instruction illustrations which is so ironic lol. It makes me wonder if getting meruhetchi is super straught forward and we are overthinking it

I have Google translations of each page of the book if you guys want. I'm tempted to pay someone to accurately translate them to see if we can gather any more insights

[sick nova]

That would be super helpful

[signal shuttle]

Yeah, and Oshamatchi is the character they use in the packaging as the transparent overlay thing when you're looking at the shell lol it's a cruel joke

I'm not going to translate the whole thing but if there's a specific section you want done correctly I can do that

But I never saw anything interesting in the manual when I looked at it before

other than that good care characters might turn the toilet light on before they poop i did think that was interesting

[sick nova]

Yeah, Oshamatchi is absolutely the one I can't figure out

Perfect care and 14/14 discipline from Meruhetchi didn't work, unless I somehow messed something up and didn't notice lol

[signal shuttle]

Yeah regardless of what the manual says (which i dont personally interpret that part as promising anything evolution-wise), it definitely seems like you get punished for disciplining to 100%

Because i have only gotten Mayumarutchi doing that

[sick nova]

Yeah, if I do manage Meruhetchi again this run, I might try 10/14 or 12/14 plus perfect care and see which adult that gets me

[signal shuttle]

12/14 i got ginjirotchi younger brother, that's all i personally have so far lol

[vapid dirge]

Packaging

Instruction Manual

Instruction Manual 2

[ionic quarry]

Do you have any scans of the manual without the translation overlays? I’d be interested to look through it.

[vapid dirge]

Yeah I can! If you dont mind waiting, I'll scan them digitally tonight after work

[ionic quarry]

Ahh, thank you very much!

[sick nova]

I have to leave for work so I've put it to sleep but I did what I did last time and surrounded it by the clover tamas for good luck hahaha

May this sleeping child be Meruhetchi bound, the clovers will manifest it

[vapid dirge]

Question for you guys: When your Yasashii calls for discipline, do you immediately select the discipline button? (Top right, #3, Heart icon) ,or do you first select whichever button the Yasashii highlights (either Meal or Snack/Play), and then Discipline?

I have noticed there's two scenarios with discipline. The Yasashii calls for discipline and either the Meal or Snack/Play button flickers on/off first, not the Discipline button. Then the user can either:
1) Immediately just discipline via the Discipline button
or
2) Select the Meal or Snack/Play button (whichever is flickering on/off) to cause the tama to refuse the Meal/Snack/Game. Then the Discipline button starts flashing, and you select the discipline button to answer the call.

I'm wondering if the discipline only really counts if you go through the ritual of selecting the flashing Meal or Snack/Play button first so it refuses it, and then discipline it? I have always discipline instantly using method #1 here. I'm curious if you guys have been using method #2.

[sick nova]

I do the latter

[vapid dirge]

It's always been weird to me that the discipline call lights up buttons other than the Discipline button...

👀 Real talk??? What if that's it!

Like it sounds silly, cause I know it's calling for Discipline which is why I always just immediately select the Discipline button. But, if this is meant for children/elderly and it's meant to be easy to use, and the main feature is the light up buttons, I think it would be expected of the user to select the button that's lighting up even if the call is actually for discipline. Perhaps I've been messing up the discipline call by not selecting the buttons actually lighting up

[sick nova]

For me it's just instinct lol, even when the P1/2 call for discipline I always try to feed it first, for whatever reason

I guess this is somewhere where one of my weird habits may have come in handy

[vapid dirge]

Hmmm 🤔 I think best practice would be to use method #2 (selecting the button that's lighting up first), but I would be interested in testing it. All else equal, if disciplining method #1 vs method #2 would have an effect

[brave hawk]

It's definitely something to test out

As long as the same sorts of care are given to the Hoppetchi, having one disciplined right away while the other is only disciplined once the care button flashes could help narrow things down

[sick nova]

This is one moment where I wish I had a second Yasashii lol

[vapid dirge]

Same oh my god xD I would run two like a scientist

[sick nova]

They've gone up in price since I bought mine 3 years ago so I cannot justify it though

[vapid dirge]

I really want the White one, but I only really see the Yellow and occasionally Blue on the market

[brave hawk]

And that's a scary thought, considering that they've always been extremely expensive

[sick nova]

Yeah

I paid around $300, which is a lot but would be considered an extremely good deal today

[vapid dirge]

Geez for real lol that is

[brave hawk]

Even back then, it would've been an extremely good deal

[vapid dirge]

I bought mine 8/21/2021 for $515 including shipping

[signal shuttle]

i dont want to talk about how much i paid for mine

My sunburned, faded screen yasashi

[sick nova]

Yeah I love the white, it was probably my first choice but I like the blue a lot so I'm not unhappy with the one I have at least

I think I'd like the yellow better if it had the same kind of designs the blue and white have

It's too plain as is

[signal shuttle]

I dont think this makes sense if you think about it programmatically

Think about it. For that to work you'd basically have to have 2 discipline meters that have logic to get merged into 1 single one. One that is "real" discipline and one that is fake

Because regardless which one you do, it appears in the bar

The P1/P2 also do not care, you can discipline them as soon as they call and it counts

[sick nova]

Oh yeah that I knew, it's just habit for me lol

[signal shuttle]

it is for me too but theres no way that matters that would be insanely complex lol

[vapid dirge]

Yeah, but that's where I'm suspecting maybe there's a design flaw. With the P1/P2, it refuses Meal/Snack/Game regardless during a discipline call. It only lights up the "attention" icon.

In the case of the Yasashii, it specifically lights up either the Meal button, or Snack/Game button. Given the Yasashii is designed around flashing its buttons for the care it needs, I feel like it would make sense to expect the user to select whichever button is flashing first. The fact it then refuses the meal/snack/game and then lights up the discipline button would tell the user that the call is actually for discipline and not just a meal/snack/game.

They even write about it in the instructions in this image. It's a rough translation, but it specifically says that if your Yasashii refuses to eat a meal, snack, or play a game that it's "selfish" and needs to be scolded. You scold it once the discipline button lights up.

[signal shuttle]

Yea the P1/P2 manual say the same thing lol

[vapid dirge]

Now either way the discipline bar fills up, but that's where there might be a design flaw. Disciplining it immediately would be like skipping from step 1 to 3, but the discipline call is still programmed to fill the bar. But for the discipline to count it would have to jump through all steps 1, 2, and 3.

You could be right in that it might be too complicated of programming for a Tamagotchi. Maybe the Tamagotchi just "checks" for the amount of discipline bars filled at the time of evolution in which case it doesn't matter

[signal shuttle]

Yea that just seems unnecessarily cruel and complex lol, it's the developers explicitly punishing you -- secretly -- for not disciplining the way they want you to. It serves no other purpose 😂

I mean it seems like it should be easy to test though because you just keep doing it the 'wrong' way and get meruhetchi doing that

[vapid dirge]

It would be lol. In any case, which way have you been disciplining yours?

Agreed on that. I'll try switching it up with my discipline method and see if it affects anything

[signal shuttle]

I feel like i'm not always consistent although i do usually try to play game first

[vapid dirge]

I'm just curious if you've been doing method #1 and still got meruhetchi. RJ does #2 all the time so we can't tell with them

[signal shuttle]

but i definitely sometimes do just hit the damn heart button as soon as it calls

Note also that the way i do it is to try to play game before disciplining, even if it lit up the hungry sign. So im still doing it 'wrong'

[sick nova]

There probably have been times where I've hit the game button when the hunger button has lit up

I always just press one of the two, I'm not super consistent with which one

[vapid dirge]

Hmmm interesting. Again, I'm just wondering if what matters is that the Heart button is actually flashing when you answer the call for discipline

[signal shuttle]

I mean it can call with the hungry sign despite being full so that's the only way you 'know for sure' its being selfish

[brave hawk]

I mean, they're already punishing us for overdisciplining

[ionic quarry]

🤔 I’m not consistent, sometimes I try to feed but if I’m ‘discipline hacking’ I usually just hit the discipline button asap.

Trying again, he should evolve tonight 🤞🏻

I had a weird one this morning though, he woke up and almost immediately called for food.

Usually it takes a bit longer at empty before he starts beeping/flashing

[signal shuttle]

if it's like the P1/P2, then it's probably just that the timer to emptying a heart happened to expire shortly after it woke up

(the hearts all emptying after waking up probably doesn't affect that timer)

i can't remember if i've actually heard the yasashii beep for attention before so i was gonna ask if it can actually do that lol

[sick nova]

It doesn't, I've had instances of a hunger heart dropping just minutes after I filled them upon wake up

That happened this morning actually

[ionic quarry]

I am just hoping I didn’t get a care mistake for letting it call out. Normally I fill it up just after wake up, but this time it almost immediately called for food.

Usually I can feed it before it calls out

I will know in a few more hours anyway

[ionic quarry]

Bah, Mayumarutchi again.

Discipline 12 and (I think) no care mistakes; minimum weight, no snacks. I wonder what I’m doing differently 🤔

[sick nova]

Dang

[sick nova]

Unless this is what did it

In which case that's so cruel lol

I'm taking a week off of work for my birthday in a few weeks and I really am considering dual running the Yasashii and one of my Oceans during that free time lol

Just to experience the ultimate cruelty tamas have to offer

[vapid dirge]

You are a masochist lol

[sick nova]

If I added in a Tamaotch for good measure I doubt I'd last longer than a day

[brave hawk]

MERUHETCHI ALERT
http://www.ginjirotchi.ca/Ginjijournal/journal/gjournal25.html

[sick nova]

The girl on Instagram is me haha, the owner of that site had been messaging me

So far so good with my run, we are at 8/14 discipline right now

Not sure when it's gonna evolve, I lost track with all the pausing

[brave hawk]

@ionic quarry this may or may not be more evidence to suggest that not letting the hearts drop below 3/4 is crucial

[sick nova]

I'm also running a connection V2 right now and had to get a pic of my dual blobs while I still have them

[ionic quarry]

Interesting, I’ve been letting mine drop to 2 or even just 1 full sometimes.

[sick nova]

Yeah, I try to avoid that as much as possible

[signal shuttle]

I already said the hearts emptied at least once when i got meruhetchi lol

[vapid dirge]

Oooh! I love Ginjis website 🙂 so glad to see he finally got Meru!

[vapid dirge]

Gonna be so hyped if you get Meruhetchi this time. At that point we have all but confirmed you found a working method

[sick nova]

I mean I've done everything I did the first 3 times I got him, so I'm assuming I'll get him again

I'll be very surprised if I don't haha

[vapid dirge]

I'm still unsure what has differentiated Jackson and my recent runs from yours. We both had 12/14 discipline. We weren't perfect on the heart drops, however. But it sounds like Rhubarb wasn't either when they got Meru

[signal shuttle]

Whoa...

Kabuto??

This was with "16/14" discipline and otherwise perfect care lol

I was expecting either Ginji Younger Brother (what i've gotten before with this same discipline level) or Mame Younger Brother (what jackson has gotten at that discipline level from the teen). If there's a type system for yasashii it apparently is complicated lol

My runs so far are:
Hoppetchi (4?) -> Mayumarutchi (8) -> Pantarotchi
Hoppetchi (16) -> Mayumarutchi (16) -> Ginjirotchi's Younger Brother
Hoppetchi (14) -> Mayumarutchi
Hoppetchi (12) -> Meruhetchi (12) -> Ginjirotchi's Younger Brother
Hoppetchi (10) -> Mayumarutchi (16) -> Kabuto Oyajitchi

lol kabuto's happy dance is so funny he just shakes his booty at me

i havent even tried repeating any of these runs yet but i wonder if i would even get the same results lol. hmmm

the fact that jackson had 12/14 discipline but got mayumarutchi disturbs me. I guess it really isn't just discipline that matters

[sick nova]

That's so weird

[signal shuttle]

Notably, this run it did get sick once. Because i fed it a lot of snacks in the baby stage. When it evolved it was sick

[sick nova]

There's gotta be a hidden factor somewhere that nobody has figured out

[signal shuttle]

Do you ever have them get sick?

[sick nova]

No

[signal shuttle]

Thats weird then lol

[sick nova]

I've never had one get sick except for that time Tamabetchi did when he was aging

[signal shuttle]

I had a cursed thought that the time of evolution matters

😂

[sick nova]

Haha

I also had a thought that maybe the length of the baby stage matters but it's hard to say

Like an RNG kind of thing

It'd take a LOT of runs/documentation to ever prove that though

My Hoppetchi should be evolving some time tomorrow, after I reach 10/14 discipline, so I will keep y'all updated

[signal shuttle]

Im gonna reset... after i eat lunch. So i'll be getting a teen again on Monday

[vapid dirge]

I've gotten kabuto from perfect care of Mayumarutchi before too, like 100% + discipline

[signal shuttle]

Ok that makes me feel a little better lol

[sick nova]

Why's the Yasashii gotta be so inconsistent lol

[signal shuttle]

But it doesnt make me feel better that people with 12/14 discipline are getting mayumarutchi because that tanks my theory of 'only discipline matters' lol

[sick nova]

Yeah it's bizarre lol

We'll see what my perfect care and 10/14 discipline gets me, I'm assuming Meruhetchi since I'm doing everything I did before

But idk

[signal shuttle]

3:25 PM:

[signal shuttle]

Of course.....

Maybe they updated the software

[sick nova]

You know I did think of that too lol

[signal shuttle]

So some shells are running different code 😂

[sick nova]

I wish ROM testing vintages was a thing

[signal shuttle]

That would be wild if some shells actually literally could not get meruhetchi

yea sadly the only way we'll ever know is decapping and we'd need to do it on multiple shells

$$$$$$ also many dead yasashiis lol

[sick nova]

Yeah, Yasashiis are too expensive for that to ever be realistic lol

[signal shuttle]

Now we could have people open up their yasashiis and we could see if there are noticeable differences on the board

Like there were with the mothra & angel

My yasashii motherboard didn't actually have any written text on it though -- #repair-restoration message

Unless it's under the black foam thingy but i didnt want to remove that

But you might be able to identify a slightly different layout or something (which was something i saw on the mothra)

[sick nova]

I actually noticed something similar with the Connection V1, the earlier American ROMs are way easier to get the perfect care characters than the later American ROMs

Of course you can ROM test those to check the differences, and they're way cheaper so running two side by side was feasible

[signal shuttle]

true

One interesting question might be has anybody been documented to get meruhetchi on a yellow shell

Because you and i both have blue ones, and the one in that link azure posted earlier today was blue

[sick nova]

I believe @dapper nebula did?

One of the yellow shell people in this thread definitely did

[signal shuttle]

#1083399069252206622 message

[sick nova]

Yep

[signal shuttle]

i mean if the firmware really did change then it could be different between shells of the same color lol, that wouldn't guarantee anything

[sick nova]

Also this is interesting, so I guess it is possible to get Meruhetchi with 10/14 or less

[signal shuttle]

well 50% is a bit imprecise so we dont know if thats 8/14 or 10/14

or even 6/14 lol

(ok its probably not 10/14)

im gonna go for 8/14 on this run so let's see how things go

[sick nova]

I'm guessing 8/14

[signal shuttle]

it would pretty wild if it was like... 8/14 12/14 are meruhetchi... 10/14 is mayumarutchi lol

[sick nova]

We shall find out tomorrow when my 10/14 Hoppetchi evolves

Well probably tomorrow, possibly Monday since I've paused a lot

If it doesn't evolve tomorrow I'll have to do the insomnia hack so it doesn't call for discipline again

[signal shuttle]

Hoppetchi evolved about 10 minutes ago and then called for discipline. So that's right around 80 minutes. i guess i'm only gonna have to discipline hack by 1 since it should be around long enough to call naturally twice

[signal shuttle]

Oh yeah one thing i forgot to ask the group. When you discipline hack do you turn off the lights every time you put it to sleep

[vapid dirge]

I've been confused about Kabuto. I've heard he's either a really bad health character, or he's the "secret" or special character you get from raising a poor health character really well. I'm not sure which it is honestly.

[vapid dirge]

This could also be somewhat disproven if you're able to repeatedly get Meruhetchi using your method. If multiple people can repeat the process then that's as good as "science" gets in testing a hypothesis

[vapid dirge]

As far as I know, we all are running Blue shells except for Jackson? I know there's a few other people out there running the white shells but I don't see them too often. I've only seen Meruhetchi on the blue shells though

[vapid dirge]

I do, yes.

[vapid dirge]

Actually yeah that would be interesting lol, if there are intervals of discipline which increase the likelihood of getting a certain character. It wouldn't explain how Jackson and I got Mayumarutchi with 12/14 though.

If we want to explore if there is a correlation between Baby Stage length and the teen, we need to start tracking how long our baby stages are and documenting it

[signal shuttle]

There was an old growth chart in the 90s that said kabuto was a secret character evolving from pantarotchi, not sure if that's what you were referring to. I'm positive that the growth chart was purely based on vibes because pantarotchi looks like maskutchi and oyajitchi was a secret character in the original P1. That growth chart is complete bunkus and we should collectively forget it existed; kabuto oyajitchi is clearly not a secret character

(i took it off the yasashii wiki page not that long ago)

[signal shuttle]

WELL if it's true that there's different versions of the yasashii code then maybe the discipline level for meruhetchi is different between the two. So the theory there would be that you and jackson can never get meruhetchi at 12/14

(if i do 12/14 in child stage again and get mayumarutchi that time, i think the theory probably starts to look less likely; if RJ gets mayumarutchi at 10/14 and 8/14 with the same method she uses at 12/14 i think it starts to look more likely)

[sick nova]

That's what I can't figure out lol, I can consistently get him but I can't seem to explain to other people exactly what I'm doing

Or like I can but other people are repeating what I do and getting Mayumarutchi anyway

[vapid dirge]

To be fair I don't think I repeated what you did 100%. It sounds like the owner of Ginjirotchi.ca who got it used your method which worked.

I'm skeptical Jackson or I gave as good of care as you did 😛 I know for a fact I let hearts drop more than 1 for example

[sick nova]

Yeah, I think he did follow what I did 100% because I sent him my really rough notes (which aren't great but give the gist of it I guess)

[signal shuttle]

so did i though...

[sick nova]

That's so puzzling

How I wish vintages had a ROM version screen lol

[signal shuttle]

Life would be so easy

[brave hawk]

no

NO

PLEASE GOD

It was already bad enough that Tamagotchi Park did that

[signal shuttle]

i kinda like the idea of there being different ROM versions because it would explain the seemingly 'random' results that different people get doing the same thing. But its definitely a stretch

[brave hawk]

We'd probably need a bigger sample size, both in terms of participants and results

[sick nova]

Definitely

[river night]

what would be a reasonable price to not go over when buying a yasashii in case i want to get one and help get data

[vapid dirge]

In my opinion, $500-$600 should be the expected range. If you find a really good quality one for $600-$650 and are eager, I would go for it. I wouldn't pay over $650 personally though

Avoid buying on eBay usually, as these prices are way too high. You can occasionally find some on Mercari for $450-$500. If you see a quality one under $500 I'd recommend snagging it

[signal shuttle]

||there's actually one on mercari for a hair under $500 rn... no box but it does have the manual and seems to be in good shape||

i kinda regret getting mine when i did, i was considering it earlier this year and decided against it. I could have paid less lol

[sick nova]

Yeah, this seems to be about the average for them now

[vapid dirge]

I only see one yellow one for $425 but it's buttons are chewed up or something :x Other than that it looks fine

[sick nova]

I'm happy with mine but I kind of wish I'd held out for one with a box/manual since mine didn't come with those

[river night]

that's so much more expensive that a devilgotchi

i'm not sure i would ever have enough money at once to afford a yasashii fhjddj

[ionic quarry]

The Rom versions is an interesting idea, I’m just not sure they produced enough of them to warrant a mid-cycle change. Didn’t the Yasashii have a very short production run?

[sick nova]

Here we go, now we wait

[signal shuttle]

I forgot to change the time to keep hoppetchi asleep this morning so i'm restarting lol. Not too big a deal because i'm only losing a couple hours of progress.

but i'd like to be consistent in the level of care i give so leaving it awake with empty hungry hearts for half an hour is not the move

[signal shuttle]

i thought the Devil was the one with a really short production run, but idk

[ionic quarry]

It might be both.

May ‘98 - Devil
Sept/Oct ‘98 - Yasashii
Nov ‘98 - Santa

Series on hiatus until Plus/V1 in 2004.

[sick nova]

I had to leave for work so my Yasashii is paused for the rest of the night, it didn't evolve today so tomorrow it definitely will

Fingers crossed

[signal shuttle]

I mean that doesn't necessarily mean they only produced them for a month lol. i dont think we'll ever know how many they made

Devil was the one i called out because i thought that it actually got recalled

at least that's what i've heard here, maybe its misinformation lol

[sick nova]

I've heard that too

Apparently it got recalled because of the soft screws

Also the series I believe went on hiatus in 1999, because that's when the Arukotch was made and the Arukotch is technically the last vintage tamagotchi model

(I'm biased, I love the Arukotch, some people don't count it but it's a tamagotchi in my eyes)

[signal shuttle]

I definitely count it

It even has a page on the old bandai tamagotch channel website

[ionic quarry]

It’s more that given the rarity of them and them being produced towards the end of the lifecycle makes me think they didn’t have a very long production run.

[vapid dirge]

I didn't know this existed. I checked it out on the Wayback machine. Any idea if we can somehow translate all the unidentified characters showing as question marks?

[signal shuttle]

there's nothing interesting in those pages i just checked

i forget the exact reason why the characters appear like that i think it's because they use an old encoding (Shift-JIS)... or something....

it shows up ok for me on firefox, your browser may have a 'repair text encoding' option or something like that you can use

[brave hawk]

Wait, the Devil actually got recalled?

[vapid dirge]

My mayumarutchi should evolve today I believe. He's at 12/14 discipline right now. I've been only letting him drop 1 heart max so it will be interesting to see which adult I get. Most likely Ginji Jr but who knows 😛

[sick nova]

My Hoppetchi should be evolving at some point today, I paused it last night before it went to sleep and just unpaused it again so it will remain at 10/14 discipline and not call again

[vapid dirge]

Good luck on Meruhetchi!

[sick nova]

The owner of Ginjirotchi.ca just messaged me, he got Pantarotchi from his Meruhetchi

Not sure what the discipline was, I'll ask

[vapid dirge]

Interesting. Good to know! I wonder why he isn't in here though

[sick nova]

I could send an invite

[sick nova]

16/14, which is weird because that's what got me Tamabetchi lol

[sick nova]

Whoop, so 10/14 discipline and perfect care got me...

Meruhetchi, as expected

Hearts never dropped below 1 empty, weight was minimum when it evolved

I guess one thing I should probably try in a future run is doing exactly as I did here, but with 14/14 discipline

Also 8/14 discipline

[signal shuttle]

I hate it here 😂

i definitely thought i took better care for 10/14 discipline than i did for 12/14 lol

[vapid dirge]

Brooo what lmao 😂

[ionic quarry]

Ah, I’m back to I really thinking this part might be a key point. It’s a shame I don’t have a lot of time this week to run Yasashii.

[signal shuttle]

yea BUT like i said i got meruhetchi on 12/14 and i let the hearts drop to empty at least 1x lol

[sick nova]

Yeah, if it weren't for that I'd say the hearts were crucial

There's gotta be another factor somewhere lol, I just can't figure out what it is

[signal shuttle]

yeah im really confused

Discipline being the only thing that mattered was a nice clean theory but that clearly isnt the case lol

[vapid dirge]

How long was your baby stage?
What was the age at evolution?
How many times did it get sick, if any?

Could it be the amount it sleeps? It's a stretch but doesn't meruhetchi have a little sleepy cap lol. Maybe it's something to do with the lack of sleep

[sick nova]

Baby stage was 90 minutes
It evolved at age 5
It never got sick

It slept the normal amount because I paused during the day and then put it to sleep when I got home from work at night

The Yasashii differs from most vintages in that they do not get sick prior to evolution, they seem to only get sick from neglect

And from age once they are adults

[vapid dirge]

What other factors can you think of?

[sick nova]

Maybe the time it was hatched? For me that was 11:30am

That's a stretch though lol

Amount of games played? I did play the game a LOT of times

Idk though

[vapid dirge]

I've thought about this too. I know i play over 50 games alone in the Child stage so I don't think that would be the case. I also thought maybe, God forbid, it has to do with the amount of wins versus losses. Like each loss counts as a negative against your character.

If I remember, doesn't the Connection V1 have a feature like this where you can "counter" care mistakes by winning games?

[sick nova]

I've definitely lost more games than I've won lol, sometimes it takes me 5-6 attempts just to fill one happy heart

[signal shuttle]

yea we definitely all play the game a shitton

Ok here's something i'm wondering though, does the calling out for care actually work like it does in other vintages

In that it calls for 15 minutes and then stops

I've never actually checked 😂 i just know whenever i see it at empty hearts it's never calling for attention. i'm not even sure i've seen it do that

i may have seen it call once in the baby stage but its a hazy memory

[sick nova]

Hmm, that's actually something I've never thought of

I don't usually let the hearts empty so I've never observed it (well, other than my very first Yasashii run where I got Micheltchi but that was long ago enough that I don't remember)

[signal shuttle]

u all got me doubting myself that i let the hearts empty before it became meruhetchi 😂 but i literally did come in and say that right after it evolved lol. I cant trust my own memory anymore

i mean even the calling for discipline seems kinda wacky because it seems like it might just refuse to eat or play until you discipline it. I waited like 40 minutes one time lol

[sick nova]

Reminds me of the Ocean, where if it calls for discipline while the hearts are empty, you cannot feed it or play with it until you discipline it - I found out the hard way by waiting for over an hour and it never went away

[signal shuttle]

One thing is for sure though i do not have the 15-minute timer like you do to make sure it never drops below 1 empty lol. I def would have gotten some 2 empty and 3 empty

oh interesting

oh but if the hearts aren't empty it does go away? Wack

[sick nova]

The Ocean will also sometimes get sick and call for discipline at the same time, and refuse medicine until you discipline it, it's not helpful if you're trying to avoid discipline calls because you're forced to discipline in that case

[signal shuttle]

Wack

[sick nova]

Yep, it does

The Ocean is just cruel lol

[signal shuttle]

Gimme the code for these things

[sick nova]

Called for discipline almost immediately after I woke it up, so we've got 6/14 now

[vapid dirge]

Oshamatchi inbound

[sick nova]

I think I'm gonna try 10/14 again and see where that gets me

[vapid dirge]

I think I'll put a grid together in an excel sheet for this soon so we can start marking down what possibilities we have tried

[sick nova]

I've had terrible luck with my Meruhetchis so so far I've only got

Hoppetchi (10?) > Meruhetchi > accidentally reset
Hoppetchi (12) > Meruhetchi > batteries died
Hoppetchi (12) > Meruhetchi (14+) > Tamabetchi

And now Meruhetchi #4 who will hopefully not get reset or have his batteries die (the batteries are brand new so probably not)

[vapid dirge]

On your 3rd with tamabetchi, did you give meruhetchi perfect care?

[sick nova]

Yes

At least I thought I did, unless I missed something without noticing

[vapid dirge]

This is what I've come up with so far. Probably not 100% accurate but it's a good start

[sick nova]

Definitely

For my run with Tamabetchi, Meruhetchi was at 14+ discipline when it evolved, it called an additional time after I'd already maxed out the discipline

[vapid dirge]

Gotcha, I'll mark it down as 16 then

So I updated it to include the Ginjirotchi.ca website owner as well. I also am creating a sheet that shows all unique possibilities of care and discipline to help figure out which paths we should take next

It definitely seems possible to get Meruhetchi with 10 or 12 discipline with "perfect" care. 14 is undetermined so far which is interesting.

The main difference I see is care level given. I believe Jackson and I gave good but not perfect care. I'm not sure how to classify rhubarb's care level to get meruhetchi since it's a little unclear (i.e there were a few heart drops).

I think one of the more interesting paths to take next is 16/14 discipline with perfect care. Then we can determine if over disciplining is actually an issue. If it's not, then we can safely assume that 14+ discipline is equivalent to 14.

[sick nova]

Yeah, that's definitely on my list of things to try

Namely, trying perfect care and either 14/14 or 16/14 discipline with Hoppetchi, to see if I would get Meruhetchi or Mayumarutchi

Oshamatchi is the other mystery I so badly want to figure out lmao

[vapid dirge]

I'm going to try 12/14 with perfect care this next time.
Like I'll only allow 1 heart drop each. I won't feel confident in myself until I can at least repeat what you're doing

[sick nova]

I set my Yasashii on a 15 minute timer to catch the heart drops my first few runs, I didn't do that this run but it helped me not lose track initially

[vapid dirge]

First Oshamatchi we get will likely be the first ever lol. Tamagotchi history in the making.

Or the first ever documented. We will HAVE to get all the sprites

[sick nova]

Nah, we found an old Japanese log from the 90s where the writer's grandma got Oshamatchi lol

But they weren't really very clear how

[vapid dirge]

Either Grandma is a dirty liar or she's the ultimate Tama caretaker lmao

[signal shuttle]

I claim that i took perfect care for 14/14 and 16/14 and still got mayumarutchi, although I do not do "RJ perfect" lol

[vapid dirge]

Gotcha. I may differentiate the Care Levels then. We will have "Perfect" which is based on typical P1/P2 care, and we will have "RJ Perfect" which will be typical P1/P2 care AND never letting hearts drop more than 3/4. 😂

[sick nova]

Lol yeah, "RJ perfect" would involve probably setting a timer like I initially did

[vapid dirge]

This is what I've written up so far

As you can tell I clearly am having a busy day at work 😂

[signal shuttle]

If that's how you're defining it then you should be able to mark everything I did as Perfect lol

[sick nova]

Also the third time I got Meruhetchi, the one that eventually evolved into Tamabetchi, I definitely didn't take "RJ perfect" care of that one

The hearts dropped to two empty more than once and one time I forgot to turn the light out when it went to sleep at night, I thought I wouldn't get Meruhetchi but I still did

[vapid dirge]

I don't want to overcomplicate things now, but we should try to test the RJ Perfect theory by testing each heart level (3/4, 2/4, 1/4, 0/4) with all other factors equal. At that point we can finally prove/disprove the meter levels affecting the care

[sick nova]

And also figuring out what constitutes a care mistake, since it seems to be different than the P1/2

Since surely not turning out the light is a care mistake, or at least on most models it is, but it didn't stop me from getting Meruhetchi

Maybe the hearts emptying only counts as a care mistake after a certain amount of time, that could explain how rhubarb still got him

Accidentally leaving the hearts empty in the morning for 20 minutes, but otherwise taking very good/near perfect care did prevent me from Meruhetchi, I got Mayumarutchi that run

[ionic quarry]

Alright so for mine, I had 3x runs that were similar.

Run 1

Baby 65 minutes after egg hatched

Hoppetchi 12/14 - ‘good’ care. Hearts were refilled on a 45 minute timer — usually 2 or 3 hearts empty each time. One time I forgot to feed when awakening until it beeped.

Mayumarutchi - same level of care. Did not miss any feeds upon awakening, so never beeped. 14/14 discipline.

Ginji Jr

Run 2

Baby >> 64 minutes after hatch

Hoppetchi 12/14 - ‘good’ care. Hearts were refilled on a 45 minute timer — usually 2 or 3 hearts empty each time. Beeped once immediately upon waking to demand food.

Mayumarutchi >> Reset

Run 3

Baby - 70 mins after hatch

Hoppetchi 12/14 - ‘good’ care. Hearts were refilled on a 45 minute timer — usually 2 or 3 hearts empty each time. Never beeped for food.

Mayumarutchi >> Reset

[vapid dirge]

Oooo juicy I can't wait to add your guys' responses

[signal shuttle]

Let me amend this, my meruhetchi run should probably be categorized as "good care"

Hoppetchi should be evolving literally any second now idk why it hasnt yet

[signal shuttle]

Hoppetchi has a nice pair of bushy eyebrows now. 😂

From 8/14 discipline

[sick nova]

Lol nice

What kind of care given?

With my next run I'm probably gonna try 8/14 discipline but with my level of perfect care lol

[signal shuttle]

Perfect but not RJ perfect lol

when you pause / discipline hack, do you set it to exactly the bedtime / wake time? so it doesn't 'lose' time? in other words im wondering if waking up my tama at 8:50 AM because i was too lazy to change the minute or putting it to sleep at 8:50 PM is a problem somehow

[sick nova]

Yes I do

I've never discipline hacked though

[brave hawk]

At least there's the guidebook for the time being

It's not every sprite, but it's still got a fair few

[brave hawk]

If it helps, Ginji said on their log that they never let their recent Hoppetchi lose more than one heart

I'd imagine that the morning hunger loss was an exception

Not sure how long they took to evolve from ChikaChikaBabytchi though

[sick nova]

Yeah, at the very least I think not letting the hearts drop below 1 empty is a guaranteed way to get Meruhetchi (or, at least, my success rate with that is 100%)

But it's obviously not the only factor which is confusing lol

[signal shuttle]

This wouldn't make sense in P1/P2 world but maybe yasashii is able to register a care mistake if it detects that the current time is 15 minutes past when it went to sleep. for example maybe the detection of a light care mistake is time-based not countdown-based so if you put it to sleep at 8:20 it registers a mistake even though it's only been actually asleep for 5 seconds

Im pretty sure at this point all the stuff we're speculating has been speculated before lol

Anyway it would be easy to test, i just have to start being disciplined about setting the time during hacking again (which i was when i first started with yasashii, i dont remember if i was when i got meruhetchi)

[sick nova]

That's interesting and maybe worth experimenting with

For me it's another one of those things I've just always done out of habit, and it's also easier for me to keep track of how many hours I have it unpaused each day if I start it exactly at its normal wakeup time (ie. I had it unpaused for exactly 4 hours today, yesterday it was unpaused for 5 hours after evolving)

Basically another thing that stemmed from my excessive pausing, since I could never keep track of when it would evolve but doing it this way it's easier

The entire way I run the Yasashii is shaped by my work schedule, which I initially thought was a curse but it's turning out to be a blessing lol

[signal shuttle]

you are the meruhetchi queen at this time lol

that is interesting though that it's a clear difference between our carestyles, and i WAS more disciplined about this in the past but have not been recently lol

[vapid dirge]

Hmm interesting. I see what you mean. Rather than an internal 15 minute clock starting once it calls for sleep, which is avoided when we alter the time, it simply checks "Is the light on 15 minutes past bed time?". In your example, altering the time to any time after the bed time + 15 minutes would automatically count as a care mistake

[signal shuttle]

Right

Basically i'm speculating that when it registers a care mistake after bedtime is a character-specific trait just like sleep and wake time, so like Tamabetchi might register a care mistake at 7:05 PM (5 minutes after bedtime) because he is a farmer and needs to be awake early. But Michelletchi can be like 8:00 PM (2 hours after bedtime). etc

[sick nova]

A few months ago I ran a P1 right after my first Meruhetchi trials and out of habit I would even check the meters on that every 15 minutes lol

My brain was in full Yasashii mode, needless to say I got Mametchi that run

[sick nova]

That's actually an interesting point too

[signal shuttle]

yasashii brain. All the best things in life have hats

[sick nova]

Other than a V2 I'm running on and off, the Yasashii is actually the only tama I'm running at the moment so this run has probably been my least stressful one yet lol

Like when I ran this back in March/April it gave me so much grief and now it's fine

[sick nova]

Once again called almost immediately upon wakeup, 8/14 now

I barely had time to fill the empty hungry hearts before it called, it called that quickly

This entire run it has called for discipline either immediately upon wakeup or a few minutes afterward, which is interesting because in previous runs I'd sometimes be waiting an hour or more for the call

Got the worst care character on V2, the sacrifice I made so my Yasashii could receive perfect care hahaha

[signal shuttle]

Yeah after discipline hacking a LOT i think we can conclude that the amount of time to call for discipline is probably random

[vapid dirge]

Same experience for me. Most of this run has been within a few minutes of waking up. Then last night it was after 50 minutes

[signal shuttle]

We've seen it be like 3+ hours before lol

[sick nova]

Yep, I've had it be 2-3 hours before

[sick nova]

I spoke too soon lol, it's been 40 minutes and no call

[sick nova]

It took over an hour to call today but we have reached 10/14 and therefore I will be using the insomnia hack now until it's time for it to evolve

[vapid dirge]

Wooo! Does the insomnia hack prevent discipline from calling? How do you do it?

[sick nova]

I just pause it before it goes to sleep at night and change the time in the morning like usual

If it never sleeps it won't call for discipline

[vapid dirge]

Ahh I wish I had done this run. I let Mayumarutchi reach 14/14 discipline which isn't what I wanted. But oh well, I'll try that next time 😄

[signal shuttle]

i've been doing 16/14 just because i want to see if i ever get mametchi's younger brother like jackson did

but im more excited for the next run where i'm gonna be more disciplined about changing the time for discipline hack

[vapid dirge]

Got pantarotchi! My first time getting this character it's so cute

Hoppetchi (12/14, p1/p2 perfect care) ->
Mayumarutchi (14/14, mostly RJ perfect care) ->
Pantarotchi

[sick nova]

Nice! I haven’t had Pantarotchi myself yet

I thought I was doing a good job at keeping track of the amount of time my Yasashii was unpaused each day so I could get an idea of when it would evolve but… I lost track lol

So it’ll be a surprise

[vapid dirge]

Same, and I was only able to have mine unpaused for an hour or two each day for the past few days so I felt perpetually stuck on the teen stage lol. It started getting frustrating. Hopefully yours evolves today!