Change the grid arrangement of the heavy turret

[errant orchid]

[unborn blaze]

thats game design

i cant really discuss

[errant orchid]

now why would you place the heavy cannon on a turret

just make it a heavy deck gun

[rich kernel]

💀

[unborn blaze]

[errant orchid]

[unborn blaze]

oh and how does connections work

[rich kernel]

You need to add ladders

I'd need to be at home to explain in it more depth

But theirs like bottom entrance on some parts essentially

[unborn blaze]

hmm

ima gonna try to find out

nvm

i thought the game had a system to only be accessible the upper floor in a specific point

it doesnt

[rich kernel]

?

[unborn blaze]

instead of having the three vertical lines only one in the ladder path

[rich kernel]

Ah

Just remove the crew positions under the deck

So theirs one dude in the ladder then the rest on the turret floor

[unborn blaze]

oh

alr

[rich kernel]

Keep in mind though

Realistically people would need to climb up anyways since you can have a part with a ladder under the turret

So like that would be an entrance

Logically

You can restrict that though if you want

[unborn blaze]

done

btw hardness bigger the better?

or is it inverse

i put 0.5

[rich kernel]

I think bigger is better?

Can't remember off the top of my head

I mean it's fairly shrimple to test

[unborn blaze]

but 0.5 is too much?

[rich kernel]

Set the hardness to 999 and see if you can evaporate stuff

[rich kernel]

🤷‍♂️ look at a ram and see its hardness stat

If it's the same or higher probably lower it a bit

[unborn blaze]

spike is 0.7

ram is 1.5

probably is percentage

so 50% more hard is good enough ig

instead of 550 hp now 775

now its clear why airships has so many mods

its relatively easy

[rich kernel]

I mean you could go to 0.7 tbh

But valid

[rich kernel]

Yeah

Unless you make it hard for yourself

Me 🙂

[unborn blaze]

do you want the mod to test?

[rich kernel]

I mean sure?

I'll probably end up running a conquest with it at some point

MP I mean

[unborn blaze]

help

idk how to centralize the gun

[rich kernel]

How do you mean?

[unborn blaze]

the pivot point isnt alligned with the gun rotation

[rich kernel]

Yeah so you just need to find that pivot point

[rich kernel]

And have empty space equal to barrel length past it

So that the center of the barrel is at that point because most of the barrel isint barrel

[wild condor]

at this point this is most likely the longest thread on this server

[rich kernel]

I mean I literally taught a dude how to Mod in it so uhhh

Justified?

[unborn blaze]

yeah but still not quite right

when you get to home you test it

[unborn blaze]

i made sure to be it

[rich kernel]

What do you mean it's not quite right?

What did you do? XD

You can work it out like mathematically

[unborn blaze]

idk

its just not right

i tried for 1 hour straight

[rich kernel]

I mean this looks right to me?

[unborn blaze]

when it starts to rotate

gets like 2 pixels offset

[rich kernel]

In what direction?

[unborn blaze]

downwards/to the right

[rich kernel]

Well then that wouldn't be fixable through barrel length uhhh I mean I'll have a look at it now gimmie a bit

[unborn blaze]

test with direct control to see better

[thorn hull]

I mean the #modding chat exists for that purpose, and it might benefit some people that want to learn but don't actively talk (if they even exist) by them seeing it

[rich kernel]

Modding is plenty active this just just where we decided to discuss things

[unborn blaze]

did you find out?

bro it doesnt even make sense

[rich kernel]

From what I can guess

It may be that the barrel is slightly too long in terms of how it's classified

Because it seems that the issue only appears at more extreme angles

Although I don't know for certain

[unborn blaze]

nvm

i didnt watch the tutorial

its engine thing

bruh

now ik why doesnt make sense

[rich kernel]

?

[unborn blaze]

the barrel x and y defines where the game is going to render the sprite at 0 degrees

and i was trying to guess how it works

[rich kernel]

Ohhhhh yeah

I'm not experienced with that

[unborn blaze]

@rich kernel

i did it

[rich kernel]

He made the tall turret

[unborn blaze]

nah

its 3x6

i just couldnt fit the heavy turret

the base damage is 140

[rich kernel]

Just a heavy turret variant

[unborn blaze]

and accuracy same as before

[unborn blaze]

rebalance and remake

reload speed is 3 seconds

[rich kernel]

Wasint the original point that the original heavy turret sprite was gonna be the bigger one because it's physically larger?

[unborn blaze]

and 20% of hardness

[rich kernel]

I suppose just if you don't like the base sprite

Why 140 damage?

[unborn blaze]

#general message

[unborn blaze]

idk

just testing

[rich kernel]

Real

[rich kernel]

No no I mean like

You can just have separate things like the disruptor and small disruptor

[unborn blaze]

yeah

the compact heavy turret

and the big heavy turret

ik 3 blocks of area isnt a big deal but i made the weapons have their niches

the new heavy turret for example has little depression

but great elevation

and the compact kinda the inverse

a little faster on reload

and more accurate

resistant to rams

[rich kernel]

That's valid

I think if your doing a 3 second reload it should probably be a full 150 1 because it's a more even number and 2 it makes the gap more impactful if one is to fire slower

[unborn blaze]

idk

[rich kernel]

?

[unborn blaze]

missunderstand

lol

i got you

[rich kernel]

Ah

[unborn blaze]

yeah

144

to combine with imperial cannon

alr

?

[rich kernel]

That's valid

Although personally I run with 25% advanced met

Because it makes numbers much more even

That was changed in the diplo update and imo it was kinda bad

Because it used to be cannons going from 40 to 50

And now they go to 48

Which is just awkward

So for me imperial cannons are doing 150

It's a marginal difference but it looks nicer

However for consistency with the base game 144 would work better

[unborn blaze]

wait

thats confusing

so its 120?

[rich kernel]

How do you mean?

[unborn blaze]

because imps goes from 120 to 144

20%

then the heavy turret too

120 to 144

but without the splash

[rich kernel]

Yeah

I personally changed advanced met in my game in particular to be 25% because it works out much better for the vast majority of weapons numbers wise

[unborn blaze]

then 11% slower fire rate for a 20%/25% damage bonus sounds ok

[rich kernel]

Yeah

Your getting into a rather marginal territory but it should be enough to matter due to the level of base damage

[rustic smelt]

Fet :}

Now make a rounded variant

[unborn blaze]

no

because doesnt make sense

[rustic smelt]

Smol turret got 3 versions

:}

[unborn blaze]

exactly

small

in the real life counterpart there is no way you can bend a giant and thick metal sheet

get a reality check

[rustic smelt]

They were also rounded

🎱

So 💩

[unborn blaze]

no

[rustic smelt]

Yes

[unborn blaze]

find me a real image of a battleship turret

[rustic smelt]

Rounded

More than flat wall

Rounded?

😼

[unborn blaze]

the rounded part isnt metal moron

[unborn blaze]

nice its not real

[rustic smelt]

It was

Yet 1 305mm canon is shit

Compared to 2 or 4

:}

[unborn blaze]

not big

thats basically the size of the small turrey

ik because its anti air

[rustic smelt]

Its 356mm battlecrusier canon

[unborn blaze]

alr i was wrong but battlecruiser has poor armor

[rustic smelt]

+_+ no crap

[unborn blaze]

and in game we can decide whatever we want to put on top

like wood

[rustic smelt]

😭

Heavy wood

I remember some very old swedish dreadnought had compley round single barrel turrets

[rich kernel]

The size of an airships musket

[pale zodiac]

A double barrel turret vs big turret is funny

[wild condor]

[dusky ember]

3 minutes

[wild condor]

its nowhere near the whole thread

if it was the whole thread
it would be like half an hour or some shit

[dusky ember]

I know

[wild condor]

i could do the whole thread but meh
i dont know if i could make it funny

[dusky ember]

the amount of drinking I do lmfao

[wild condor]

[dusky ember]

you're almost painting me as an alcoholic

this is slander

BAN HIM

[wild condor]

its meta juice

(i said so)

[dusky ember]

steroids

[wild condor]

i actually did do most of the thread up until that point
i just made an alt version that cut all of that out and left only this

scrolls up
"someones got a skill issue"

[dusky ember]

[thorn hull]

coffee addiction

[dusky ember]

fak yuo

[rich kernel]

Ah yes my reputation now proceeds me XD

[tight saffron]

Dafeesh really would make a good ace attourney character

as long as he could find an outlandish enough costume that is

[wild condor]

just make him a fish

ez

not even an anthro fish or some shit like that
no no
a normal fish

[rich kernel]

Reminds me of my original pfp

[wild condor]

i question if theres anyone in this thread who wouldnt make a good aa character

[tight saffron]

I mean that is a compelling argument

[dusky ember]

every time I got depicted as the guy with the visor and the mug

idk if I have the slyfox meta meme somewhere

from years ago

[wild condor]

this is because i made sure to depict everyone the same as slyfox did in meta discussion 1

also meta discussion 1 is on youtube somewhere

just type in acts meta discussion/acts balance discussion
it should show up
i think

[dusky ember]

I thought it was posted on discord

as a file

[wild condor]

it probably is

its also a video on youtube though

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqvPb30AGMk

[dusky ember]

either way, I am not complaining about it, just is funny

[dusky ember]

this is the 5th time this link was posted btw

[wild condor]

imagine if the servers actually worked back then so slyfox couldve mp tested it

just wasnt meant to be i guess

[turbid pike]

fuck this thread

[wild condor]

[turbid pike]

the worst part is that this means I'll be depicted as a woman everytime one is made

[dusky ember]

australia internet and ping

[turbid pike]

oh well

self inflicted injury, shouldnt have put that they/them in the pronouns

[dusky ember]

your fate is sealed

[wild condor]

you hardly show up in these anyway

if i were to make one for the whole thread you would be there for
about 30 seconds max i believe
excluding this part that i wouldnt include

[dusky ember]

tbh you were not there in the original one

but I think it is rather fitting what F went with

[wild condor]

we are in a new era (most of the people in the original one are gone)

[turbid pike]

what a shame

havent been playing much either but uh blame roblox for that

[dusky ember]

I love how you decided to depict yourself as the device

[wild condor]

i picked the device because it explodes
and its funny

[dusky ember]

yes

[turbid pike]

this is true

actually maybe I should delete my roblox account...

[wild condor]

also
i believe i have basically run out of people to add
dafeesh was the last major one when it comes to unhinged meta discussions that go on for too long
oh well

[unborn blaze]

hey

not f

[turbid pike]

maybe thats for the better

less insanity

[unborn blaze]

how do i put a name on a module?

[wild condor]

i dunno
im not a modder

[dusky ember]

Not F is the last person to know

I'll handle this

[unborn blaze]

lmao

[wild condor]

my only modding experience

is trying to cheat in a death ray

[dusky ember]

(I'll handle this because I know)

[wild condor]

and breaking my shit for like 2 days

[wild condor]

is it really though

[unborn blaze]

i tried the exact code zark used in the old video but still not works

[dusky ember]

you need this folder

[unborn blaze]

ah

i have it

and now

[dusky ember]

and in it you need this file

[unborn blaze]

yep

[dusky ember]

and inside it, you do this

(ignore the random gun.json shit)

[unborn blaze]

oh

yes

thx

[dusky ember]

also the credit for these in particular goes to kelpy, not me

[turbid pike]

I dont need another person argueing idk that the fucking harpoon gun is actually the best

[rich kernel]

Ah thank you helping him

[turbid pike]

or having to see another battlecarrier

there is enough unhinged posting on the steam community

[unborn blaze]

i finished it

i think

huh

im having a error

why?

ah i found it

[wild condor]

there will always be another

[unborn blaze]

wtf is optimum range?

[dusky ember]

AI shit

[unborn blaze]

oh

[unborn blaze]

@dusky ember test it

100% bug free

[dusky ember]

no

the fuck is an .amod?

nuh uh, not downloading that shit

frankly

[dusky ember]

@heavy tinsel this is not what mod files look like, I am pinging you because I frankly find this to be basically a suspicious file and yes I know it is 3 AM, bite me later

[unborn blaze]

i literally

exported

what

the game did export

trust me

100%

[dusky ember]

that's not how you do mod files

epic fail

[unborn blaze]

ok then paranoic

[dusky ember]

you will now live with your mistake

[unborn blaze]

done

have fun

[unborn blaze]

airships.mod

[dusky ember]

stop pinging me

[unborn blaze]

real

its 3 am

lmao

sorry

[rich kernel]

That is literally how you do mod files

[dusky ember]

both of you have been doing it wrong

[rich kernel]

The game literally exports mods as A mod files

[dusky ember]

you have been doing it wrong

every single modder of this game never ever used the export button

never

instead they always just zip up the folder in a .zip file

[unborn blaze]

its over

relax bro

just appreciate my effort in balancing a underused weapon 👍

[dusky ember]

nah, I'm gonna be a dick about it

you should ram your ships NOW!!!

[dusky ember]

anyway, good that you are doing it, but I do not agree with your changes

at least not all of them

but you WILL RAM COMMAND!!!!!!

RAAAAAAAAHHH

[unborn blaze]

im open to suggestions

TOMORROW

(here is 23:30)

[tight saffron]

imagine not knowing about the ingame mod export feature

[thorn hull]

imagine using it

[tight saffron]

it's actually really convenient you need to do like 2 clicks and you have your mod exported/downloaded

I mean

I still don't use it

but it would be hella convenient if I did

[thorn hull]

I mean, if I'm making a mod, I already have the folder open, so it's also two clicks to just archive it in a zip file

[tight saffron]

but if I'm making a mod I already have my game open on the mods screen

[thorn hull]

depends, I guess

[tight saffron]

so counterpoint you know also two clicks

[dusky ember]

literally nobody uses it

[tight saffron]

xD

yeah I know

[thorn hull]

usually if I'm making a mod and in-game, I'm usually in the ship designer or something

I'm only ever in the mod menu to enable it or disable it

[tight saffron]

I don't use it unless I am transporting mods internally

[thorn hull]

maybe reload it if I'm modifying it actively

[dusky ember]

the only time I used it was to export a replay because replays are built different

that's it

[tight saffron]

because actually it's way easier to use the .amod system to transfermods between different PCs

[dusky ember]

nah, I disagree

[tight saffron]

My .amod files are smaller size than my zipped versions

meaning I can just like attach five to a discord message sling it across and then download them all at once

That's convenient IMO

[heavy tinsel]

ima bite off yo head

[rich kernel]

Suggestion make a trebuchet with defensive value

[hallow ivy]

Just put suspendium in that bich

[unborn blaze]

what

you mean a trebuchet that acts like wood armour

?

i can do it

[rich kernel]

No

[unborn blaze]

but i dont see necessary

[rich kernel]

I mean a trebuchet that has value on a building

Since current ones can't aim up

[unborn blaze]

oh

wait

let me cook

[rich kernel]

Although tbh if your not interested in respriting the current one you could make the current one have defensive stats then have some traction trebuchet thing

Since that would explain a weight difference

[unborn blaze]

if i understand

you want a trebuchet that can be good against airships when used on a building?

[rich kernel]

Yeah

Since T0 defenses are lacking

[thorn hull]

I've been working on this, orang made a version of this

[rich kernel]

1 by 1 we address every complaint of the game balance wise in terms of lacking variety

[thorn hull]

turning the trebuchet into a building weapon

[rich kernel]

On God?

[thorn hull]

orang's version is pretty solid tbh

I still need to toy around with mine

[rich kernel]

Damn and here I thought you people don't do anything XD

[thorn hull]

well yeah, it was made like
a year ago, maybe? for orang's version
my original one also

[rich kernel]

Is it just stats or do you have a model?

[thorn hull]

like a month ago I made a small balance mod that I released somewhere else and had not f test the changes

grech managed to make the bombard good

[rich kernel]

How was that done?

I just extended the range personally

[thorn hull]

ask him, don't remember the exact changes

@dusky ember

[rich kernel]

Ane upped the piercing damage

[thorn hull]

iirc there was an increase in horizontal and vertical max ranges

as well as pierce increase too

can't remember well

[rich kernel]

Independently coming to the same conclusion? Based

What else in terms of parts needs to be added for balance purposes?

I've already expressed I think their needs to be more aircraft

[wild condor]

except disagree with you? no

[thorn hull]

on my end of thinking, the only real part needed for balance purposes imo was a second thing to add with optics, since I moved deck guns to t1

also yeah haven't done anything in weeks tbh

been out of the airships mood

[wild condor]

ive been testing armor
thats all ive done recently really
and fucked around with making more gifs too

[dusky ember]

heavy bombard: maxXRange 700m, +40% from advanced metallurgy, maxUpRange 1500 (forgot the default again), arcGravity 0.0003 -> 0.0002, accuracy vs airships 0.7 -> 0.75, reverted pen damage to pre ballistic (32 base pierce), lowered weapon angle to 350 from 330 (360 is flat), increased degrees from 80 to 110

[thorn hull]

my idea was a spotlight module, which it turns out kelpy already made exactly that

[rich kernel]

I'm making oil (again)

[rich kernel]

Bro he just like me FR FR

[dusky ember]

I'm better than you

[rich kernel]

Yeah

[rich kernel]

):

Your an alcoholic though

[dusky ember]

so?

unlike you, I am part of the balans mod team technically speaking

[wild condor]

it aint really technically speaking if you were assigned to work on ballistic weapons

[rich kernel]

I never claimed to be part of it?

[dusky ember]

true!

[dusky ember]

I'm just being an asshole on purpose because idk I don't actually care enough

might be boredom

[dusky ember]

kelpy's one is unfortunately a 2x2 module which is so weird that it's the same size as a rocket module

I'd like to change it to be the same size as flak

[wild condor]

1x2 would be funny
instead of 2x1

[rich kernel]

Maybe one day I can poke one of you into trying to balance a mod I make

[dusky ember]

nah

[wild condor]

this requires one thing
at the very least

[thorn hull]

based

[wild condor]

1. a finished mod

[thorn hull]

2. motivation

[dusky ember]

the tall spotlight

[rich kernel]

Yeah so that's the main issue

[thorn hull]

I ain't motivated enough to even finish patching my own balance mod

[wild condor]

this is also true
if i lose interest in this game i will be gone for another 6+ months

[thorn hull]

there unironically isn't enough vertical modules

[rich kernel]

I had recruited many people to work on it including myself then we all simultaneously got struck by lightning apparently

[dusky ember]

I have to adjust the arcs of my ballistic weapons, I still haven't done that

[wild condor]

they all have vertical restriction too
there is not a single one with horizontal (id assume spotlight would have horizontal because it has to shine at the enemy)

[rich kernel]

Spotlight but in reality its just a crows nest but tall

[thorn hull]

tbh my idea was a module that specifically is anything but an accuracy bonus

so that you can have some actual support modules

[rich kernel]

Spotlight provides uhh uhh uhh extra research speed

[thorn hull]

though I'm not sure anything else could be coded in easily

[thorn hull]

[wild condor]

what is with you and research related things today

[rich kernel]

Depends on what your going for anything in mind?

[rich kernel]

I get into moods

[thorn hull]

I was thinking more of a debuff on the ship the spotlight is targetting, or a fleet accuracy boost against the targeted ship

[wild condor]

accuracy debuff on whatever ship it shines on

[rich kernel]

That's not possible unfortunately

[wild condor]

or fleetwide accuracy bonus against the ship it shines on iirc

oh

[thorn hull]

to mod in, I know

[dusky ember]

idk tbh, I was more thinking of having the same thing flak has

[rich kernel]

Because you can only impact your own ship with bonuses/malices

And hero bonuses to fleet accuracy fire rate ect are locked to heros

So it needs to he something personal to the ship itself

[dusky ember]

but hey, we can try things at some point

[thorn hull]

only fleet-wide bonus for ship modules iirc is just the command cooldown one

[rich kernel]

Yeah

[thorn hull]

a bit sad zark didn't code in more even if he didn't use them

[rich kernel]

I wish we had a fleet wide bonus function

But no parts base game even use the gives bonus system currently

Even though it works fantastically

If we just poked some people who know how to sprite and had the motivation to do it we could easily throw together at least local support modules but I only fit half that description and those people are exceptionally rare and usually interested in doing their own thing

[thorn hull]

I mean what would local support modules even do

apart from accuracy boosts, that is

[rich kernel]

I think we have had conversations on this before

[thorn hull]

also 1500 messages

[rich kernel]

Remember the talks about big ships?

[wild condor]

kelpy we were too late
if only he was here still

[rich kernel]

I feel like I'm always in the threads on servers with the most messages

[thorn hull]

what, crew speed boost stuff and all?

[thorn hull]

you are

[wild condor]

because you are

[thorn hull]

(you are one of the main reasons they get so long)

[rich kernel]

Dunno if that's a good thing or bad thing

[turbid pike]

so why do people want a spotlight

can you just

mods

[wild condor]

tis apart of optics tree rework

[thorn hull]

adding something extra to the optics tech that makes sense
because deck guns moved to t1 is the current balance idea for them (amongst other buffs)

[rich kernel]

It would be really cool looking

[wild condor]

that too

[thorn hull]

also it would look cool, yeah

[rich kernel]

Spot light could provide a bonus to planes

How's that for an idea?

[wild condor]

shrug
i mean yea i guess but i feel like thatd be a side thing

and not its main function

[thorn hull]

and makes sense, you could argue that the spotlights use fresnel lens or stuff like that
then boom! it's entirely an optics tech

[thorn hull]

could be a neat extra bonus tbh

[wild condor]

just make it remove nighttime accuracy debuff

proble solve

[thorn hull]

that's just an accuracy boost with extra steps

[rich kernel]

Did I mention weather is an arcane system that does not care for ship bonuses?

Also modded ships seem to get struck by lightning more

Just a thought

[thorn hull]

also if you code the spotlight as a weapon that doesn't require ammo, you could also use it on carriers to give targetting orders to planes without needing to add an ammo store

[thorn hull]

based weather

[rich kernel]

That's easy

[thorn hull]

I know

[rich kernel]

Damn

If we had hero bonuses for parts

We could make it give a fleet speed bonus

That'd be kinda sick

[thorn hull]

I tried to make the command deck double as a weapon so that having it could give targetting orders to planes (otherwise it's useless)
but doing that removes the command deck's whole feature of giving other orders to planes

which is a bit silly

[wild condor]

what

how

it just breaks it?

[thorn hull]

yeah

[wild condor]

bruh

[thorn hull]

because it's classed as a weapon then and not as command stuff or something, probably

idk

[rich kernel]

Reminds me how if you try and get crew to act as troops or guards they don't count as crew even if you specify they do work and count as crew

[dusky ember]

in kelpy's mod, it needed coal iirc
idk if it should use coal tbh

[rich kernel]

You know what fuck it imma try and throw something together

Large ship part

[thorn hull]

could make sense, but it'd have to depend on what the module ends up doing

I'd make it about as coal efficient as a small prop or chamber though

if not more so

[dusky ember]

yeah

I also wanted to get pneuma to modify the sprites (kelpy gave permission) to make them work better as 2x1

or was it 1x2?

I always had problems with this

[rich kernel]

Nevermind I'm dead what the fuck

[wild condor]

[unborn blaze]

wtf

[unborn blaze]

how are you patient enough to do this in a program?

[wild condor]

shrug

[unborn blaze]

?

[rich kernel]

It means you enjoyed the conversation! (:

Back to writing my dnd campaign

[unborn blaze]

[rich kernel]

?

[unborn blaze]

game older than ma mama

[wild condor]

means i dont know
all i do know is that i wouldnt have made this one or meta discussion 2 if slyfox hadnt made the original
he inspired me
like a day/a few days after the heavy cannon vs suspendium cannon discussion happened, i remembered the original meta discussion from 2021 and thought that the convo would be a good sequel candidate, even though it wouldnt be made by the same person and most of the original people were gone

[unborn blaze]

ah yes

[wild condor]

personally i see it more like
it was stupid enough to make me want to make a shitpostish video of it
but sure

also mfw it still aint done (still randomly cuts off at the end, like i said if i did the whole convo it would be so long not even i would want to watch through the whole thing)

[rich kernel]

Ehh it's more or less done the points have been made

Honestly still bigger brain then 2 heavy cannons to 1 suspendium cannon as an argument

Or whatever that slyfox one was

[wild condor]

it is
the slyfox one was "is the rifle secretly op"

this one partially exists just because the thread got so damn long (even the file name is called "turnabout athousand")

[rich kernel]

Turnabout 2 thousand soon

[rich kernel]

Wha?

Brother cannot appreciate good table top

[wild condor]

not out of this thread
would require another convo to have 2k messages
be acts-meta/balance related
and be stupid enough to be worthy of a video

[rich kernel]

I think it's partially down to me being at least constructive enough to have discussions but not good enough to think of solutions people agree with

So we will have a long discussion that will actually resolve some ideas but ultimately it's gonna be a bit dumb XD

[rich kernel]

This will require a truly interesting topic I imagine

Cannon balance clearly

[wild condor]

[unborn blaze]

im ready for the sprites

[unborn blaze]

how do you think cannon is underpowered?

[rich kernel]

Expensive
Isint great at handling armor or doing damage
Ammo inefficient
Bad fire arc (justified though based on design imo)
Generally gets outclassed by every other cannon derivative other than sponsons and the deck gun

[unborn blaze]

idk seems reasonable to put a 2 ammo clip

[rich kernel]

We have basically everyone agreeing on that much

Its just the other parts

[wild condor]

everyone agrees with that

just that
the other buff
the other thing that it could get to make it stronger
nobody agrees on that

some think it needs shot speed
some think it needs $$$ reduction
some think it needs nothing more than that 2 shot clip
etc

[rich kernel]

One issue with a shot speed buff is all cannons have the same shot speed currently

So I don't know if zark would agree with that

[unborn blaze]

really?

wow

[rich kernel]

Well I think the imperial cannon is slower actually

But other than that yeah

[wild condor]

well yeah but what i meant was that
some think they all need shot speed
cannon would benefit from it still so

yea

[unborn blaze]

shot speed and clip?

[rich kernel]

I think we should just agree on that so we get something out

Maybe plus like a 25$ part cost reduction

[wild condor]

i think there was a proposal for adv metallurgy to be a shot speed buff instead of damage or somethin
ask balance mod team members for that one (theyd know, and im not apart of the official balance mod team)

[rich kernel]

So

1.5 shot speed (25% buff)
Clip of 2
50$ base cost (25$ off iirc)

[rich kernel]

I remember it and it was

And they got the shot speed instantly but not the damage

Advanced met isint changing I think certainly

I feel like most of the issues with the cannon could be resolve with a balanced deck gun as well

[dusky ember]

oh yeah btw, 1615 messages in this thread

[wild condor]

guh

this might as well be a fake general balance thread at this point

with how many different balance related things that have been brought up in here

[dusky ember]

yeah

[wild condor]

everyone just propose your changes for the balance mod in here from now on

[dusky ember]

sure thing

[rich kernel]

Make a second balance mod and make me in charge of it

[unborn blaze]

how essential is maintaining low accuracy in airships?

[rich kernel]

How do you mean?

[unborn blaze]

most cannons have a great chance of missing

[rich kernel]

You know the weird thing is they kinda don't

They are incredibly accurate at most ranges

The main limiting factor is shot speed for a lot of parts

You can see this when firing at buildings

[unborn blaze]

so

make every cannon at 1.5 shot speed base?

[rich kernel]

No

XD

[unborn blaze]

why

not

[rich kernel]

Because we were discussing buffs to the baseline cannon

That's the one that mainly needs help

[unborn blaze]

i meant that

[rich kernel]

Oh yeah than sure probably

[unborn blaze]

its because i included sponsons

[rich kernel]

Heavy cannons maybe as well although I dunno since their meant to fill the same sorta role as cannons but massively overshadow them typically

[unborn blaze]

theyre just sadder cannons (sponsons)

[rich kernel]

Real

[unborn blaze]

nah its good to be able to dodge from heavy cannons

then the cannon can do smth useful

[rich kernel]

Yeah

It's just weird because I feel like dev intent is like

Heavy cannons being more accurate then normal cannons

Since they have better base accuracy currently

[thorn hull]

quality content

[unborn blaze]

its more for real life purposes

[rich kernel]

No

It's a distinction because the imperial cannon exists

The heavy cannons are meant to be the big sniper weapons of the cannon family at the cost of their fire rate

Tbh I could see a ROF nerf for better shot speed

Dunno

[unborn blaze]

your making me confuse about my life

[rich kernel]

So you get the basic cannon yeah?

[wild condor]

20 minute long shitpostish video by the end of this year

[rich kernel]

That's meant to be the baseline form then you have the grapeshot which is closer range higher damage, the imperial cannon which is inaccurate and kinda mod range heavy gun with big damage, then the heavy cannon which is intended to be a longer range option

And turrets are just better I guess

[wild condor]

all i (or whoever else may make it) needs its a braindead enough convo that goes on for long enough

[unborn blaze]

if i was zark i would change balancing officially until the community dont give hate anymore

[wild condor]

how to get every player that cares about balance to use a balance mod at all times

[rich kernel]

I don't hate I critique destructively!

Also yeah

[unborn blaze]

real

im gonna retire from doing ACTS things to improve the game

ive reflected that i lost 24 hours of my life

gonna leave the game die again in my heart

and never open until smth happens

[rich kernel]

Broooo

But I wanna get you to sprite more things

XD

[unborn blaze]

jk

[wild condor]

"april fools guys!!!!"

[unborn blaze]

real

but im gonna do smth

but way less

ispent 10 hours today

[rich kernel]

So what your saying is I can rope you into a comically large project you can help with over the course of years?

[unborn blaze]

no

but i can help with anything smaller than 3 spritesheets

[rich kernel]

Damn

What if I just keep asking you for 1 sprite at a time?

And you do it at your own pace?

[unborn blaze]

im gonna hang over a rope around my neck

[rich kernel]

Ooof

[unborn blaze]

alr

i can do it

[rich kernel]

Thanks i can mark you onto the list then

XD

[errant orchid]

Hey guys, im here to discuss the fact that

Heavy turret is just fine as it is

it's wonderful

beautiful

It has no real issue

It's just a big ol', inexpensive boi

[rustic smelt]

Hes gonna make series out of it

The fact still is, big turret in vanilla is too expensive for what it does and there are better ways to do things 😋

Canon with autoloader is 2x2
Big canon shoud then follow at same rule

[rich kernel]

That's what we did

[rich kernel]

Ram!!!

[rustic smelt]

Raaam!

[thorn hull]

it's not really too expensive for what it does
it's more that it's too vulnerable to ramming

[rustic smelt]

Make it not explode

And its done 👍

Ramming is not an issue anymore

[wild condor]

this aint getting in the video if thats what youre trying to do
also raaaaaaammaaaaa

[wild condor]

wrong, can still be disabled by a ram even if it doesnt explode

[rustic smelt]

+_+

Tell that to my 2k hp turret

[wild condor]

2-3 wurm catcha rammas with good micro:

[rich kernel]

The real cannon buff is making it do an even 50 damage with advanced met so it's better on my eyes

All the cannons do bizzare amounts of damage and it gets on my nerves

144 for an imperial cannon? Cmon just make it 150

[rich kernel]

Is that with mods or do you just have an abomination that's like 20 grand keels 2 turrets

[rustic smelt]

Nah

1 kneel

It flies

Shoots down something

Goes home

[wild condor]

i coulda swore there was a reason for this
but i dont remember what

[wild condor]

turret disappears

[rich kernel]

Turrets have 650 base hp you'd a need 1400hp bonus entirely local to the turret

[rustic smelt]

I just never build it till i get safe canons

[wild condor]

[rustic smelt]

Most of the issue is getting medal to repair armour 😭

[rich kernel]

I feel like 2 heavy cannons with faster cannon reloading is just better then a heavy turret with safer cannons

[wild condor]

how early do you get heavy turrets
to be able to get safe cannon
and have any other tech
before the game is over

[rich kernel]

They changed advanced met into a multiplier then just didint apply the right multiplier XD

[rustic smelt]

The point is you never have it 🙂

[wild condor]

just double down on reload

[rich kernel]

Because the description said 20% but prior in game it was 25%

[wild condor]

oh so its irrelevant
great
nice one

[thorn hull]

you have not suffered multiplayer

I once built grand keel battleships with two heavy turrets

[rustic smelt]

Its not profitable

[rich kernel]

I still do not think you get 2k hp on your turret without mods

[thorn hull]

I do not anymore, for the 250$ suicide boat is stronger

[wild condor]

klearly you need a large keel on top zzz

[thorn hull]

clearly

[wild condor]

you didnt keel hard enough

[rustic smelt]

😄

[wild condor]

cant
unless you have
1 turret fuck all else
or half your hull is keel

2k hp hvt sounds too good to be true

[rich kernel]

And I am convinced of this because the only time numbers like that have shown up for me is when I had my fucking 20 thousand hp grand keel

[wild condor]

and it would probably still find a way to get blasted by a wurmcatcha

[rustic smelt]

I got imperial canon on landship once to 3k hp

[rich kernel]

Which should be base game

[rich kernel]

That's just not real

[thorn hull]

the more keels you have, the more the HP boost is countered by the other three billion keels

[rustic smelt]

It is

[rich kernel]

Less area to effect then a heavy turret less base hp XD

[wild condor]

oh wait landships
dont tracks add hp now?
or did that not get in

[rustic smelt]

Landshp was too big

And expensive to mantain

[rich kernel]

They do

250 for small 600 for large

Irrelevant mainly

[rustic smelt]

Spoder leggies and 3 grand kneels

[wild condor]

by the way
instead of just talking about these insane numbers
how about you
back them up with some
screenshots

[rustic smelt]

2 as core and one as protection of airfield

[wild condor]

specifically that heavy turret one
i can see the imp one being possible
but that heavy turret one sounds too good to be true

[rustic smelt]

Small kneels to avoid damage in unwanted places

[rich kernel]

I remember testing the big bonus keels the keels ended up making zark starter ships somewhat viable because they all have keels which made them strangely tanky XD

It didint matter too much but it was funny

[wild condor]

yea nah mate

gonna need a screenshot to back that up

[rustic smelt]

Place ir

Directly

Next to tureet

And ur ship got many modules

[wild condor]

so you actually just have a ship thats 1 heavy turret a keel and nothing else

[rustic smelt]

xD

[thorn hull]

ultimat gunboat

[rustic smelt]

2 turrets and basicly nothing else

Some flaks

[wild condor]

screenshot or it doesnt exist mate

[rustic smelt]

I showed it before i think

[wild condor]

then show it again
where is it

[wild condor]

[rustic smelt]

XD

landships are better with it ngl

[wild condor]

mate

[rich kernel]

I'm still baffled at the idea you could get an imperial cannon to 3k

[rustic smelt]

almost there

[wild condor]

this ship of yours
unless you have a screenshot of it
IS ACTUALLY NOT REAL

ok i got it on 1

[rustic smelt]

take spider legs

[wild condor]

spider legs hp boost: 0

[rustic smelt]

oh its interesting

if we move turrets further

from each other

hp changes drasticly

[rich kernel]

Literally more keel than man

[rustic smelt]

2k hp

possibility to add airfield

and like flak battery

or even 3rd turret

mmm

[rich kernel]

2k hp when you get hit by a single rocket

[rustic smelt]

💥

[wild condor]

this is not 2k hp and this is not 1 keel

[rustic smelt]

😭 unfortunetly

[wild condor]

and 2k hp with 1 keel on two heavy turrets doesnt exist

we all knew that

you definitely knew it
you didnt want to admit it

[rustic smelt]

hmm

moon disc O_O

its good idea...

remove those legs add disc

fly to the skies!

[rich kernel]

I guess thats why you need the armor repair

[rustic smelt]

the point is

ship survives till water ends

becouse when youre out of armour amount of fire and crew deaths skyrocket

so its basicly pointless to even build anything that can sit and take shoots...

[wild condor]

zzz med steel

[rich kernel]

You are ultimately constrained by armor since its the main deciding factor on ship durability

[rustic smelt]

yes

[wild condor]

bigger problem is ramming since its a landship
and a not even a walker

[rich kernel]

Rammmm

[rustic smelt]

small kneel will stop ramming in 90% of cases

[wild condor]

wont stop that heavy turret from being rammed

[rustic smelt]

on landship

[wild condor]

aka YOUR MAIN GUN

[rustic smelt]

😭

guided rocket better!

[rich kernel]

I have thought of a way around this but it's toxic XD

[rustic smelt]

ngl thats quite sad

that in game without dlc

kneels are like

especialy grand ones

poinltess?

if armour dies you die anyway

;[

[rich kernel]

I personally play with 4x the hp given by keels which kinda offsets it with just big numbers but it doesint fully offset it

[rustic smelt]

shocking

[rich kernel]

Because like even if your getting 100hp corridors on a ship 2 rockets and boom XD

It is at least ablative

Which is nice

It means you need less keels on a ship to get the same hp which makes it less of a pain

The same effect could be achieved by lighter keels probably

[rustic smelt]

🧠 💥

[thorn hull]

they are not

even with DLC, armour dies fast when facing the right stuff

because almost all the time, you ain't getting armour repair

and even if you do, the armour will get punched through again

[rich kernel]

They can add hp but most of the time armor hp is a high proportion of the module so it really depends on the modules your using

[dusky ember]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/643894076214607892/1096527236691144814/The_Evil_Within.gif

btw

[heavy tinsel]

118 more messages and i'm closing down the thread

[dusky ember]

party pooper

[errant orchid]

Realistically, I believe that the turret should indeed to imp cannon damage

It’s a visibly longer, larger cannon

On a big Ass mount

That hits less

[turbid pike]

thank you

[unborn blaze]

once i made a lanship with massive stone wals

[heavy tinsel]

when you see "1984" on the message counter, ping me please

[turbid pike]

https://youtu.be/jTYaOGhhygo?si=3AHfqt1HURibYr8K

[wild condor]

nah leave it open forever
i wanna see how long this will go on for

[heavy tinsel]

https://tenor.com/view/valnof-cat-low-quality-compressed-speechbubble-gif-26314462

[errant orchid]

[wild condor]

foiled again

[fathom reef]

Huh. Never thought about it before but for sizing and pathing you could make the heavy turret narrower but taller, give it a bottom section that doesn't have to be clear so it can plug into the ship, make it walkable horizontally and make it the reloading location (shell hoist).

[rich kernel]

It's already 3 tall unless you mean having a section under the Hull like front turrets?

[fathom reef]

Yeah, keep the overall displacement the same but trade some of the turret for an under hull section.
I think that part is called a barbette.

[rich kernel]

4x4 would be pretty cool

[heavy tinsel]

4x4 bro wants another massive rocket

[errant orchid]

[rich kernel]

With 2 blocks under the Hull though

[heavy tinsel]

nah 4x4 is just too large to be viable

[rich kernel]

I dont think you understand

Also the current heavy turrets literally bigger

[rich kernel]

Also we passed 1984

[unborn blaze]

bigger not less portable

[rich kernel]

I'm pretty sure something that's only 2 blocks tall off the ship would be pretty portable XD

[errant orchid]

why did you tell him

literally, i would use the heavy turret if you just...

took off the whole 5 block restriction

y'know

above it. instead just lower it to the front 2

[rich kernel]

Bro I did this

#acts-balance

[errant orchid]

[rich kernel]

Ok so imma suggest a feature but I'm just not gonna actually use it when it's avaliable XD

[wild condor]

i actually did download it today to make a ship with it
and then i realized that is a .json and im too stupid for .json mods

[rich kernel]

You just drag the folder into the mods folder

That's all you do

[wild condor]

did it wrong it didnt do shit

[rich kernel]

What do you mean did it wrong? XD

[wild condor]

it aint even a folder mate what

this is not a folder

[rich kernel]

Oh I thought you meant LBRs mod

[wild condor]

it didnt do shit
so i either
did it wrong
OR
the mod doesnt work

no

im not testing his mod right now im testing the heavy turret restrictions one

at least
i WANT to
but well
it dont work for me right now so i cant

[rich kernel]

Ok so what you want to do is take that file and put it into the module type folder of any other mod

And then the changes will appear

That one is a bit more convoluted so yeah understandable XD

[wild condor]

asfdfvgfjmh,lb/<>

[rich kernel]

The reason for that being it's meant to literally be something you can just put into the balance mod XD

[wild condor]

ok well
now you can do this

uhhhh

[rich kernel]

How do you feel about that?

[wild condor]

needs testing to see how easy it is to ram still
but at least theres more variety in how you can use the gun now so i think the change by itself is fine even if it doesnt fix the "(rams you) your turret is gone" problem (aka heavy turret syndrome as i like to call it)

[dusky ember]

I will bite you over this again, which balance mod

[errant orchid]

which is good

[rich kernel]

The good one

[errant orchid]

veru good

[rich kernel]

[errant orchid]

makes it HARDER to ram... at least

[dusky ember]

when you say "the balance mod" it immediately means the community balance mod

[errant orchid]

or in your layout... 100% rammed off but whatever

[dusky ember]

your death has been scheduled for tomorrow

[rich kernel]

I literally uploaded the file into the #acts-balance channel

Like it's under the community balance mod tab XD

[rich kernel]

You can put a suspendium cannon in between those two heavy turrets

[dusky ember]

no, that would be #balance-mod-discussion or the forum

[rich kernel]

I'm not a math guy

[wild condor]

this is true
but this will not be seen in conquest (most likely) because those who research heavy turrets do not research suspendium cannon (and vice versa)

[rich kernel]

Heavy cannon though maybe

Just a ship with like 8 heavy cannons effecrively packed into a 15 block tall frame

[wild condor]

for sure
could even do 2 of each but meh
would probably be a lil too big to be viable (not sure about it though, depends)

someone else could make that i guess (this will not happen, it will have to be me or else it wont happen im predicting this now )

(actually it might happen now that ive said that)

[rich kernel]

It's all for naught

[heavy tinsel]

pat looking bastard

also what's the point of this layout, it literally makes it easier to ram the thing, not harder

[heavy tinsel]

skill issue

[turbid pike]

1984 approaches...

[dusky ember]

5772 K

[unborn blaze]

hmm

[hallow ivy]

Hey, can you publish the mod you put way earlier in the discussion on the steam workshop or something, I am kinda having fun with it.

[errant orchid]

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/1098997446740291747/1202949964939141171/attachment-39.gif

[unborn blaze]

uh huh

[thorn hemlock]

i research heavy turrets and suspendium cannons

[errant orchid]

heavy suspendium cannon turret

[thorn hemlock]

fear

[thorn hull]

tbh that's easier to do in singleplayer

in multiplayer, tech choice matters a lot more as tech feels slower to progress (economy and research is constantly interrupted by battles)

[wild condor]

you are not doing that in mp and i know it

[errant orchid]

that would be true if

he was doing mp

[wild condor]

this is true (my argument has been defeated)

but
there is no real point in using both

[rigid mortar]

[heavy tinsel]

it is how it is

[rich kernel]

I'm still baffled how theirs so many messages here

I don't know where they came from XD

[heavy tinsel]

it's you

you are the problem

[rich kernel]

@unborn blaze

[rich kernel]

I don't think I'm the majority of messages though am I?

[thorn hull]

you make up almost a quarter of all messages posted in the entire suggestions channel

on your own

[unborn blaze]

the problem is that i made some changes

[heavy tinsel]

@thorn hull yeah dear?

[unborn blaze]

Discord mods be like

Its time to touch grass

The app wont blow up because of a 2000+ post suggestion

[rich kernel]

You did end up deleting actually useful information for a dude which was the mod realese on the workshop

Since he did want to actually use it

[thorn hull]

there was literally not a single ounce of purpose to delete any of these messages

[errant orchid]