#Ability to starve out a city by laying siege for long enough

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uncut aspen
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The siege mechanic seems to me to be underutilized, essentially just being a way to allow multiple fleets to converge in one attack, but it could be interesting to make it possible to take over a city by laying siege to it for long enough for the population to run out of supplies and surrender before they starve.

It would potentially be useful as a way to take over a heavily defended city with fewer ships than would otherwise be necessary, with the downside that it takes a while -you can't use your fleet while it's laying siege and perhaps more importantly it gives your enemy time to react and the chance to potentially break the siege by attacking with their own fleet -or by laying siege to one of your own cities.

It could also be handy to make the 'steal supplies' spy action more useful by reducing the amount of time a settlement can hold out for.

charred junco
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an unrest value gradually increasing would be interesting for sieges

solid matrix
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this please

grave edge
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It would also be nice if someone who's seiging seiged could see the defenses of a city as well

jaunty fractal
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definitely a cool idea

grave edge
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I do think seiging should be improved with some way to gradually increase unrest in a city your seiging, and some way to make makeshift buildings for seiging just because that sounds interesting although if that's the case defense budgets may need to increase

lament summit
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it could be a nice idea that after some time while doing siege civilian ships will poorly armed will sally out and try to attack you ships alongside hussars and dragoons bc cool

craggy basalt
grave edge
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Like 50% build cost or something so you can repurpose them into defenses

wispy roost
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I considered doing this, but the question I got stuck on is how big a fleet would have to be to mount an effective siege. Because if there's no minimum, players will just spam tiny siege ships to try and annoy the enemy.

grave edge
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I mean that'd at least mean seige ships would have to cost you something and you could just attack a seiging fleet with a single ship if their all useless crew balls

edgy latch
jaunty fractal
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i just thinking of ideas here, but i think a it would be cool if you could build a farm as a building in your towns or cities. to either make them immune, or take significantly more time to takeover via siege.

frozen wasp
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like logistics center?

serene moss
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Giving big ships utility would be rad as hell

uncut aspen
# wispy roost I considered doing this, but the question I got stuck on is how big a fleet woul...

Kind of necroing this idea but I think the way it could be done is the fleet's maintenance cost corresponds to the time taken for the town to surrender; if you have a very small fleet, then it'd take possibly years for a siege to fully play out as citizens sneak out and bring in more food, and other such things, but if you have a larger one then the town may opt to surrender just a few weeks or even days in

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So addressing the issue would be that small ships could siege, but it would require literally no action on the besieged player's part

earnest kiln
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Should lose supply for besieging to make supply ships useful

uncut aspen
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^

slender flax
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IMO there should be a minimum ship cost for progressing the meter/siege, as ishi said, make it need bigger ships so there is a bonafide use for them other than just looking cool.

cloud coral
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I like this idea alot, when I play I find it's more cost effective to leave cities alone until you amass a fleet large enough to win by surrender. Making surrender time based instead of just based on fleet size would help. You can't embargo a city with ships, but if there are none a timer counts down based on size of the enemy fleet, amount of structures, and maybe a foodstore that could increase the time until surrender.

split swan
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food thing should be a city upgrade

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rather than a module

cloud coral
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Ships would need to store food aswell. Or atleast have a ship with food stores in the fleet.

split swan
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nah

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that is the purpose of supply

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if ya see in conquest

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sometimes a list appears

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that is what a ship takes in as supplies

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in that whould be food too

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as a general storage

cloud coral
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That's my point, essentially make buildings dependant on supply aswell

split swan
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but for cities it does makes sense an unique food thing

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but buildigns whouldnt make sense for that

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for the mere reason they are RIGHT outside a city

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hence if the city

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were to lakc food

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so whould the buildings in defense

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hence why

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either food as a resource or a city upgrade

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but not a building

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certainly not a building

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that whould be just like industrial mods

cloud coral
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A building to store the resource of food, like there are those to store the reassures of coal and ammo

split swan
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you will not have a building in defense that isnt military unless you have an industrial mod

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so a building wich purpose is to store food

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whoudlnt make sense

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at all

cloud coral
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You think forts don't have food stores?

split swan
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these are buildings RIGHT outside of cities

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hell you can sometimes SEE the city

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and these buildigns DO

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have supply

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why whoudl you give em supply 2

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when they are also have supply storage as fuckign ships and landships

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well not supply storage perse but you know supply

cloud coral
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I guess I've always thought of the buildings as the city itself, but what you're saying is in line with the game. The point is to make ships and buildings dependant on the same system so that you can use that to base the seige mechanic off of

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And also the same reason a castle has food stores when there is a whole town with food right outside, because someone might seige

split swan
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exactly but a castle IS the city

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or rather is the center of said city

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usually

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youd have to see buildings that we the players build not as part of the city

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like say

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coastal defense

cloud coral
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I'd argue the buildings are a much better analog for the castle than the city

split swan
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our buildings are closer to what a coastal defense is

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than to a castle

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in many levels

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beyond the fact they literally outside of the city

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when a castle is usually part of the city

cloud coral
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How is the city going to defend itself from being sacked?

split swan
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in the game a city has no defenses

cloud coral
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It can't, that's why we have the buildings

split swan
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the defneses that prevent said sacked

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IS

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buildings outside of the city

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not part of the city

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as i said

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sometimes when you attack a city

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you can some times

cloud coral
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Why does that matter

split swan
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see said city on the background

cloud coral
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The people leave the city and enter the castle during a seige

split swan
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they just stay in their city

cloud coral
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It doesn't matter if they live next to the castle or 2 miles away, and it definitely doesn't matter when it's digital

split swan
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whit hope that the defenses

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Wich the civilians do not touch at all

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protect em well

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there might be a castle style building as a thing of cities in the game

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but since we literlaly never see the inside of a city

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and arguably never will

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we can only assume

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the thign is the only thing we see regarding cities is the defensive buildings we make outside of the city wich are kinda separate from em

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once again unless you play whit industrial mods

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then you can make factories and shit on there

cloud coral
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Why does this matter?

split swan
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becouse it whould be pointless for the defenses

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to have a food meter

cloud coral
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The only point of this is to enable a means of defeating a cities defenses via a seige

split swan
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separate from the city

cloud coral
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Why do castles have food stores then?

split swan
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becouse they are irl structures

cloud coral
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They could just get the food from the town

split swan
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buildings arent part of a city

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buildings in this game are closer to standalone forts

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than castles

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an example whould be

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a castle is the alambra

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and a building in this game is a monastery

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the monastery is not a part of the city

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it is near the city

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outside the city

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the alambra is a part of the city

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its a fortres

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altho that example is pointless

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since cities could also for all we know

cloud coral
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The reason they have foodstores in a castle is because if they leave the castle while undersiege to get some food they get murderized. Why not implement this reality into the game if you want a seige

split swan
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be fuckign walled

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makign a thign such as a castle

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fuckign pointless to begin whit

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still this has gone fuckign outside of the logic

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the point to add food thing whoudlb e for the CITY

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WHITHOUT ENGAGING THE DEFENSES

cloud coral
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A walled city is an entirely different story and is arguably a castle in and of itself. Besides the fact that walls don't do crap for airships

split swan
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now can we leave the useless chitchat that doesnt matter for shit since the whole existence of the starve option whould be

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to NOT engage the defenses at all

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hence making the starving also dependandt on the defenses

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whoudl just be fuckign pointless

cloud coral
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Yes that's why people seige castles, so they don't have to fight a castle

split swan
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and arguably unfun

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brother i will fuckign kick you in the nuts

cloud coral
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I'm talking to someone who doesn't understand what a seige is

split swan
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i will fuckign block you

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if you keep ignoring the FACT

cloud coral
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Because of your own ignorance?

split swan
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IM TRYING TO SPEAK IN A LOGIC

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OF THE FUCKIGN GAME

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YOU FUCKIGN IMBECILE

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SO STOP WRINGING IRL LOGIC

cloud coral
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And this is a discussion about changing thr logic of the game you silly billy

split swan
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THAT CLEARLY HAS NO FUCKIGN POINT IN THE GAME

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CUS ITS A FUCKIGN GAME WHIT FLOATING ROCKS AND FLOATING SHIPS FOR FUCKS SAKE

cloud coral
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Unless you want to implement seiges in the game

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Which is what this posts is about

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Lmao

split swan
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SIEGE IS ALREADY A THING OF THE GAME YOU FUCKIGN BINEURAL SHITSTAIN

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ITS JSUT THAT THEY ARE POINTLESS TO DO CUS IT PROVIDES ARGUABLY NO ADVANTAGES

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HENCE WHY THE SUGGESTION TO ACTUALLY MAKE EM USEFULL

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or do i need to remind you this entire suggestion is a fuckign vanilla thign

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while what you say of giving buildings

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a foodstore

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is more inline

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whit fuckign mods

cloud coral
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A seige without implementing food scarcity doesn't fully make sense. And without it you can only make a phony seige in the game.

split swan
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to allowyou

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to fuckign gather forces

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BEFORE AN ATTACK

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ONE OF THE MANY FUCKIGN PURPOSE OF IRL SIEGES

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BETWEEN IS WEAKING THE DEFENSIVE FORCE AND ALSO FUCKIGN ALLOWING FOR MORE ALLIED TROOPS TO REUNITE

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BUT ONCE AGAIN THAT DOESNT MATTER FOR THE GAME

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SINCE THIS ISNT FUCKIGN MOUNTANDBLADE

cloud coral
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The many? A seige is cutting a place off from their resources, that is the purpose of a seige.

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Atleast in this context

split swan
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a siege has so many fuckign purposes

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that it is an insult

cloud coral
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A military context

split swan
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to say that is the only purpose they have

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there are too many reasons and too many situatiosn that whould explain the why of a siege

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the most logical is of course

cloud coral
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If you're doing a seige to gather forces you're not doing a seige, you're gathering forces

split swan
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the fuckign purpose of you cannot penetrate the fuckign defenses

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whould you look at that

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that is the current purpose of the currently in the game siege

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to fucking not attack a defense you cannot win against

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and gather enough forces to do so

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whould you look at that

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starving mechanic is ALSO for that

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SO YOU DO NOT ENGAGE THE DEFENSES AT ALL

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in IRL TERMS THE CASTLE AND OR WALL IS THE DEFENSES

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IN OUR GAME LOGIC SINCE AFTER THE DEFENSES OUTSIDE THE CITY FALL THE CITY IS BASICALLY DOOMED FOR TROOPS TO RUNSACK

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THERE IS NO POINT FOR EITHER THE DEFENSES BEING A STATSH FOR FOOD

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NOR FOR A CASTLE

cloud coral
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You're arguing that my reasoning being consistent with reality and not consistent with the game makes it bad. This is a place for suggestions, I hope you would see that I'm trying to suggest something that would make the game more in line with the realism it is going for in terms of FUEDALISM.

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Feudalism lol

split swan
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brother my argument is simple

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my argument is that it is FUCKIGN POINTLESS

cloud coral
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Than why can't you articulate succinctly?

split swan
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You whould have no reason to use one or the other

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if you give defenses a way to increase food ammount

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the very idea of starving the city whould be unusable

cloud coral
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No you would have a choice between seigeing and sacking a city, the same choice feudal warlords had to make in midevil europe

split swan
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YOU COULD SIMPLY SPAM CHEAP ASS STORES AND LOOK

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POINTLESS

cloud coral
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Yes then they would have to attack

split swan
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then it isnt a fuckign siege you imbecile

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makign sieges even more pointless

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than they already are

cloud coral
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Thats the balance, but you actually have to put the reasoilurce into building stores ahead of time just like the real thing

split swan
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and as i fuckign said till i literally grew tired of you repeating the same

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there whoudl be no point in that

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we can look at this from several angles

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balance angle

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it whould make both implementing the starve mechaninc and the normal siege more useless

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from a logic angle

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if your fleet is keeping tabs on EVERYTHIGN that tries to get near

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the city

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that whould also include the defenses

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wich are AWAY from the city

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far enough so that they couldnt possibly send food whtihtout the blockade noticing

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point

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whould make em useless

cloud coral
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It's a very simple reason behind it. Either invest resources into food supply or risk your city being seiged. Alternatively, you can go bring your fleet to jnterupt the seige

split swan
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so the simpler point as i already stated

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you could simply

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fuckign make it

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a fuckign city upgrade

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and boom

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it has a reason to exist

cloud coral
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If it's so simple why can't you say it in les than 10 sentences you dolt

split swan
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it is actually logical both ingame and balance wise

cloud coral
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How do you balance it with ships then?

split swan
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becouse ships whoudlnt fuckign have a food meter

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and or resource

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for that whould be the FUCKIGN SUPPLY

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WICH IS ACCOUNTING FOR EVERYTHING THE SHIPS NEED

cloud coral
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Upon what scalar does the food upgrade increase the store capacity of the city?

split swan
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that is another topic

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and arguably outside of my need to touch

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after all this is asuggestion to zack

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he whould then decide sucha thing

cloud coral
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You dingus, that's this topic. Part of this topic

split swan
cloud coral
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Unless your answer to Zach is just B A L A N C I N G

split swan
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we arent here to discuss the fuckign SPECIFIC BALANCE OF A SUGGESTIOn

cloud coral
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Do you think airships and landship fleets should require foodstores if we're gonna require foodstores for cities?

split swan
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as i fuckign said

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no

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cus as i said

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supply

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if you ever touched fuckign conquest

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you can sometimes

cloud coral
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Okay but the balance or unbalance of a specific suggestion indicates the quality of said suggestion

split swan
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see the fuckign paper in the background

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WICH IS LITERALLY SAYING LORE CONTENTS OF SHIT OF SUPPLY

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you could also even argue

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that ships dont store food

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after all

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they could simply stop in their joruny

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cus youf ucking know

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MONTH LONG JOURNIES

cloud coral
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Which is why seizing doesn't really make that much sense in its current implementation

split swan
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so as inlore reason you could simply say they just stop and supply from nature

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and that whould also explain

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why intercepting fleets do get a pop up

cloud coral
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Hence why I would suggest making ships and cities dependant on the same system of food for the purposes of implementing seiges

split swan
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as i said

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even if ships stored food

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that whould be in their supply cargo

cloud coral
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Okay good

split swan
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and sepparating the supply system into 2 whould be pointless on itself for ships

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but as a thing specific to cities

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whould make sense

cloud coral
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I agree

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So make cities dependant on supply

split swan
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the cities are what produce supply

cloud coral
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That way whichever runs out first loses the seige

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Easy

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Yes I know cities are what produce the supply, which Is why I suggested food stores in the secure buildings

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The same way midevil lords took their food supplies from the towns and accrued it in their secure buildings for when someone would come along and try to take it

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Never have I seen someone so irate an so nonsensical, like damn dude

grave edge
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As another add on to this the ability for a player to counter a seige would be cool

cloud coral
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Definitely, I mean seiges irl take a long time. It would give people a good while to bring their fleet in and stop the seige.

split swan
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well fuck

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that is some fucked news i got while doing this convo

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turns out a dev from a mod for wargame killed himself

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and the announcement of that was the very ping i got and ignored while doing this convo

grave edge
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That's a bit dark uhhh

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I mean I don't know why your posting this here but

split swan
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well fuck of course im posting that here

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i was speaking whit ya guys while that fuckign happened

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bitch i need someone to tell this kind of shit else i cannot go out of the sudden shock of such a thing

earnest kiln
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I think City supply is good, and i think buildings you build should increase supply. Separate modules in the defence or buildings in the map would be boring imo

hybrid anchor
unkempt flume
slender flax
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definitely

plush lava
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highly decorated ships too

round narwhal
wispy roost
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Hm, so in-universe for a siege having lots of small ships is probably more useful because you gotta control airspace.

uncut aspen
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Maybe dictate efficiency of a fleet by supply usage then? That'd favour several smaller ships over fewer big ones, I think

plush lava
lament monolith
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I would like to suggest that a city under siege should have a reduced or eliminated income, and that this would have the desired effect as an empire under siege could possibly no longer afford their defenses and be forced to either sell them off or face bankruptcy, therefore being more likely to give concessions at the negotiating table or outright lose to attrition...
however that would just lead to spamming shitty rifle boats to lay siege to every town you can range, which would be undesirable for the same reasons we're not allowed to give ships to the AI.

lament monolith
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maybe a mechanic similar to interceptions where you can only have one at a time to reduce spam?