#Oppenheimer
lapis grove
astral ether
opaque sage
I've been avoiding the MI thread even though I don't know how you spoil a MI movie, but this one I'm excited to read reactions to.
bitter vale
I really wanted a dual thread for this and Barbie. Barbie is fine to have it’s own thread also though 
agile wasp
Anyone gonna take any guesses as to what happens at the climax
lapis grove
Shh. This is a spoiler channel but lets save that spoiler for after the film releases.
warm shell
hollow frost
from the WaPo review:
But the dialogue in “Oppenheimer” is scrupulously comprehensible — a victory for anyone who has found Nolan’s sound mixes to be unintelligible in the past.
legitimately the thing i was most worried about
lunar burrow
from the WaPo review:
> But the dialogue in “Oppenheimer” is scrupulously compre...
I just saw it and idk if I was too close to the wrong speaker but the sound mixing had issues every so often imo
I felt like the music drowned out important dialogue too much. Or at least distracted me from really catching every word of it?
mellow oxide
I felt like the music drowned out important dialogue too much. Or at least distr...
I don’t know, I had some audio issues as well
Felt like it was unnecessary loud at some parts
Not talking about explosions either
lunar burrow
My roommate and I had to check some of historical details afterwards because of the dialogue issues
mellow oxide
Yee. At one point I wished there was close captioning
Just like my anime 
I can say any of the music that did happen was so unremarkable that I don’t remember a single piece
Unlike the song Angel P2 from Fast X
astral ether
I kinda loved that lmao
Alden my goat
I didn’t have sound mix issues where I saw it
Thought it was a very bold decision to write in the script “[MAKE SURE YOU GET A SHOT OF HER BOOBS HERE]” in between him saying “Now I am become death.” and “The destroyer of worlds.”
lavish fiber
opaque sage
Is the post-bomb part of the movie actually black and white or is that only the trailers?
hollow frost
I haven’t seen it yet so idk how correct this is but https://fxtwitter.com/factsonfilm/status/1682466028461383681?s=46&t=YVkoJNj-2foKiY6d1OF9TA
mellow oxide
I’d say it isn’t as clear cut as that. Some of the black and white scenes are subjective.
But definitely can say all the color scenes are subjective and not objective
astral ether
Twitter
astral ether
It’s fun to read the discourse because people think depiction = endorsement
And also like…the lack of Japanese perspective was literally the point
astral ether
there was a cheer at that 😭
gaunt robin
brave oakBOT
Great job making magic @gaunt robin! 
Mickey is promoting you to level 8 ! 
gaunt robin
This movie was definitely a movie
lavish fiber
bitter vale
https://fxtwitter.com/ViceApologist/status/1682615676819701760
This is what I’m afraid of when I see it
I’m not lol
But I’m pretty close still
lavish fiber
sacred hatch
worldly dagger
So even tho I slept, the parts I saw were incredible
Dolby Atmos was very worth for the very loud scenes like the bomb and the crowd stomping
lavish fiber
novel forge
So I think slept for 2/3 of the movie <:Jessie:551123632156442639>
Why did you sleep through, were you drowsy?
I got plenty of rest for my showtime today! I hope my friends are ready too.
To those who saw this in IMAX 70mm, how was the view?
novel forge
And it was a 10 PM showing after drinks
Oh, I’d be knocked out before trailers even starts lol. I have an early bed time and I’m sensitive to drinks.
worldly dagger
I’ll watch it again on streaming because I really was liking it
novel forge
How did you see it, IMAX 70mm?
ashen hazel
This movie was substantially better than I expected it to be
I did see it in 70mm, projector go brrrrr
I do think the movie didn’t go far enough to show the suffering and horror of the bomb
That would be a criticism I have of it
hollow frost
i have not seen it yet so only dipping in here briefly
but damn
universal makes a movie where nolan very creatively has a practical effect of an atomic bomb
imagine if Universal Studios had some sort of Special Effects Stage where they could talk about that
ashen hazel
Felt cowardly to have a scene of people seeing photos of Hiroshima, and have the camera turned away from the screen
astral ether
Felt cowardly to have a scene of people seeing photos of Hiroshima, and have the...
Deliberate choice
Your mind fills in the blanks
Also it’s from his POV
ashen hazel
Your mind fills in the blanks
My beef with this is your mind can’t possibly fathom how bad it is
I recognize it’s a choice, but I think it’s a bad one
Agreed POV wise it shouldn’t have cut to Hiroshima
But via Oppenheimer’s POV we see plenty of the bomb in the trinity test, but very minimal of the suffering he would later see from Hiroshima
We see glimpses, but I just don’t think Nolan showed enough
I don’t think the movie in general was as anti-bomb as Oppenheimer himself
Movie was still very good, I think it’s an easy best picture nom
bitter vale
I do think the movie didn’t go far enough to show the suffering and horror of th...
This is for sure I think the biggest debate thats going to happen with this film, or at least should be. I haven’t seen yet but had this spoiled for me (I wanted it to be) and I am sure I’ll have thoughts about it.
astral ether
Twitter
novel forge
The trinity explosion was visually okay, though the aftershock blew my ears!
novel forge
I did my duty.
I drove to the IMAX 70mm theater right on opening hours on the day Oppenheimer went on sale to avoid paying convenience fees.
I got $25 gift cards for $20 right before on the same day I got those tickets.
I reserved the best spots for me and my friends. Near the back, centered columns.
We saw Oppenheimer last weekend and there were no issues!
They loved it! Way more than Tenet, and it was their first real IMAX experience.
I love getting the best possible experience, it fuels my competitive nature.
I wish I went on opening night so I could’ve gotten the film strips, but the projector broke down that night.
lavish fiber
astral ether
dusky jackal
lavish fiber
Apparently now a censored version of the movie is now in several countries.
Basically just covered up Florence pugh in a cgi edited black dress for a scene
astral ether
dusky jackal
dusky jackal
Yeah wasn't sure if they would reveal she was murdered, cause it shows a hand
But I checked the Wikipedia and apparently it's unclear if she committed suicide or was killed
supple slate
Oppenheimer good
Thats my review
But the bathroom line after was not good so 0/10
supple slate
In all seriousness, the Einstein “jumpscare” when hes behind the car was so damn funny
supple slate
JFK being set up like Joker in Batman Begins too
I appreciate the final line not being I am become death
Chad Nolan put it in the sex scene instead.
(And like 4 other places)
Emily Blunt is 1000% getting a supporting actress nom right?
dusky jackal
honestly like the entire cast could get supporting actress/actor
I think RDJ will probably get supporting actor nom
supple slate
RDJ getting the win no question
I havent seen Barbie yet though so maybe its Goslings
dusky jackal
I havent seen Barbie yet though so maybe its Goslings
ngl (im a little biased to him) but Gosling is phenomenal in Barbie
Gosling nails every line delivery with the perfect amount of camp/over the top
Robbie also great too ||she gets some more serious moments||
hollow frost
Cillian Murphy gets a best actor nom off this for sure
RDJ on supporting, maybe Emily Blunt on supporting (her or Florence Pugh maybe)
supple slate
Cillians gonna win the award there is not one single doubt in mind
Especially if a lot of movies are gonna get delayed because the strike
dusky jackal
Especially if a lot of movies are gonna get delayed because the strike
I think Killers of the Flower Moon will give some competition in the acting categories
dusky jackal
Better not get delayed thats my most hyped this year
i doubt it will because its an Apple TV release so it wouldnt have made a lot of money anyways
damn nvm its got a $200mil budget they probably want some of that back lol
crisp pebble
I feel seen
supple slate
damn nvm its got a $200mil budget they probably want some of that back lol
I figured itd get a full theatrical release
Didnt the Oscar’s change the rules for streaming
dusky jackal
astral ether
supple slate
His lawyer looking like Chris D’elia after learning you can screenshot snapchats
supple slate
This isnt a complaint at all but for all the people saying, WOAH THIS MOVIES FULL OF NUDITY, i gotta say i was surprised it was like a minute of boobs and half a butt
worldly dagger
Not on my watch
dusky jackal
This isnt a complaint at all but for all the people saying, WOAH THIS MOVIES FUL...
Yeah reading some poorly written reviews online and like tiktoks warning of it, kinda weird how prudish people are with nudity in movies
hollow frost
it will get nominated and most likely lose
dusky jackal
Beau is Afraid, Asteroid City? (I'm not familiar with any smaller releases)
Past Lives? Idk what it's about but that's been well received I think
astral ether
Beau is Afraid, Asteroid City? (I'm not familiar with any smaller releases)
Beau is afraid no lmao
hollow frost
The only things I can think of so far for possible noms are Creed 3 and Air
They seem like the type
astral ether
@worldly dagger this u?
supple slate
My favorite part of the movie is that whenever it was quiet for even a second i could hear the projector losing its mind
WHIRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
worldly dagger
I’m very glad I woke up before the loud moments
Because it made my sleeping much less obvious
dusky jackal
isnt it also true tho? just played out differently and without Bohr?
hollow frost
astral ether
fuck i gotta read the whole script
opaque sage
Is it common to have erm, "stage directions" in the first person like that?
opaque sage
Ah. Guess I'm not familiar with them. Is it like a novelization of the script rather than the film itself?
astral ether
Is it common to have erm, "stage directions" in the first person like that?
nah he wrote the screenplay in first person as an excercise, at least the bits from oppenheimer's pov
opaque sage
That's interesting
astral ether
lapis grove
This movie reminded me that I’m 3 degrees away from Einstein and probably also Oppenheimer too thanks to a family friend that worked for a big pioneering geologist that was at CalTech in those days
tame epoch
This movie was so fucking loud.
astral ether
opaque sage
As soon as I scrolled far enough to see Gonzo's hat I lost it
hollow frost
supple slate
IMAX is throwing a filmstrip in with any purchase
Tax is different obviously but with shipping the cheapest thing i could get was 19 dollars and its just postcards. Theyre different than the ones they gave out
And theres new showtimes being added
bitter vale
IMAX is throwing a filmstrip in with any purchase
Wait where?
So really hope I get filmstrip at AMC on Sunday
hollow frost
it's imax screenings on the first three fridays
so last week, today, and next week.
supple slate
Wait where?
Imax store
Online
Idk whats still available but i believe the postcards are gone
supple slate
Apparently these are different than the ones in theaters and arent actual 70mm film(i dont think the theater ones were either)
bitter vale
Probably not.
But bet we’ll get actual cells with Blu-ray
Like interstellar and maybe tenet
novel forge
Does it count if I bought the $12 Post cards?
supple slate
Lol the postcards sold out fast so i sure hope
novel forge
D’oh, I should’ve bought more! They would’ve been great gifts.
supple slate
They said ANY purchase gets it so we should be good
I heard the beanie is sold out too but it may be back
agile wasp
Aiite, maybe I'm just not a fan of Nolan when they're based on true events
also I felt like the explosion could've been more.....epic?
bitter vale
Wait Jiga you saw it in 70mm and it wasn’t epic enough for you, what did you want the screen to actually blow wind at you
agile wasp
i was waiting for that jaw dropping epic visual moment I got from say like Interstellar
bitter vale
(Btw they have something like this at atomic testing museum near Vegas)
agile wasp
what I got was just a giant fireball on the screen
bitter vale
…. What were you expecting?
Like seriously what do you think an atomic blast looks like
agile wasp
like i've seen better atomic blast footage on youtube
I didn't get a sense of the scale
at 70mm, i expected my jaw to drop
also, i dont think there was a moment in the movie where there wasn't constant dialogue
there were several parts of the movie where my singe celled brain was like, who did what? Teller did whom?
Strauss set up what?
I will say though the soundtrack during intense dialogue scenes were my jam
also my wife went to the bathroom at the worst time to go LOL
bitter vale
I feel like from what I’ve heard, theres like no good time to go
I’m planning on going right before and not getting soda or anything
agile wasp
i went when they were at home doing something. I didn't really care about his personal life or flings
lapis grove
Oh! So tiktok let me know about this app that's been around for years called runpee. It constantly gets updated with new films and all you have to do is start the timer right when it says, and it will give you a buzz about 30 seconds before the best times to go pee.
worldly dagger
also I felt like the explosion could've been more.....epic?
I think this is legitimately your worst take in this server
lapis grove
I tested just to see and it gave me 6 points throughout the movie and with my watch, a notification showed up basically saying "Look for this line:" and it would give a line of dialogue to listen for.
worldly dagger
The pure silence, the bright white, the practical explosion, and then the sound hitting you when it finally reaches them
agile wasp
the countdown was amazing
lapis grove
Very suspensful as it should be
agile wasp
as for the practical explosion, i was expecting something like this timestamp
but in 70mm glory
or work with me visually on stuff like this
iono
2 hours and 58 mins of constant dialogue
2 mins of an actual explosion
hollow frost
it's almost like the movie was about the man and not the bomb
worldly dagger
It’s called Oppenheimer not Atomic Bomb
agile wasp
the best part of the movie was him talking to einstein at the end
i wanted more moments like that
worldly dagger
I slept through most of the movie and I’m irrationally angry at Jiga
agile wasp
not this back and forth investigation shit
novel forge
I believe it did
lapis grove
I do understand your issue Jiga because they went the opposite direction in showing the scale. They seemed to take the approach of "Fill the screen to show it's size" instead of "show from afar with landmarks for reference to show scale"
agile wasp
yes thank you
novel forge
My best friend also complained that the onscreen explosion wasn’t impressive to him
hollow frost
also, Jiga
novel forge
The aftershock after the silence made up for it
lapis grove
It's a small moment of a bigger film so I don't really have an issue with that myself. I also understand it was partially because they did practical to represent the explosion
hollow frost
the visuals you're thinking of and expected to see are not what the subject was. the classic "nuclear explosion" you're probably picturing (like this) is later, the exact thing that Oppenheimer was opposed to after the war
that's Castle Bravo, which was a fusion bomb, rather than Trinity's fission
agile wasp
you still get a mushroom like effect though
like if they zoomed out to this
instead of zooming up into it iono
but like it was mentioned. more about the man than the bomb itself
got tired of the Commie shit
tbf, its my fault for not knowing about oppenheimer beyond being the bomb creator
mellow oxide
I love the fact that this had a non zero chance at ending the world and they used it 3 times 😄
novel forge
My postcards shipped!
agile wasp
lol i can't tell if i'm being memed or not
it wasn't a real bomb that they filmed right
US government is devoted to cinema
opaque sage
that's Castle Bravo, which was a fusion bomb, rather than Trinity's fission
It's also like, hundreds of times stronger than Trinity.
agile wasp
the more i watch real footage of the trinity test, the more I'm giving nolan a pass
but still
couldve been more impressive, especially with all that buildup
hollow frost
It's also like, hundreds of times stronger than Trinity.
Literally an order of magnitude higher. Trinity was 25 kilotons, Bravo was 15 megatonnes
opaque sage
And Bravo was also 3x what they wanted out of the explosion. It was quite a photogenic explosion, but we only have like three pictures of it because all the equipment vaporized
astral ether
gloomy olive
Beedonts review: if Spielberg made this movie it’d be better. It’s too far up it’s own ass
bitter vale
That can be said for like 90% of Nolan films to far up its own ass
Fun related fact Spielberg was tied to a film Nolan would eventually direct once, Interstellar.
gloomy olive
I mean honestly I found the movie very self masturbatory from Nolan. A lot of the narrative is “it’s real tough to be a genius isn’t it”
I think it’s a beautifully crafted film that doesn’t work for me. And I think it never should have been made
bitter vale
The last part of that is interesting
gloomy olive
During the second act I started wondering what time it was so I wasn’t feeling it
And tbh Nolan sucks shit at women!!!!!!!!
bitter vale
I’m excited to see it tomorrow still and see how I feel about it.
gloomy olive
Yeah I think it’s worth seeing
It’s well made but I feel like no one ever asked the question of should we make this movie. It’s biggest flaw tho is definitely length and there are things that could absolutely be cut
I think it’s absolutely wild for them to have multiple scenes of Oppenheimer talking about how much he loves New Mexico and then completely ignore the fall out after Trinity
It’s actually gross to me
Gary Oldman as Truman is lol
flat gull
I think it’s absolutely wild for them to have multiple scenes of Oppenheimer tal...
The way I read it is that Oppenheimer just doesn’t give a fuck
Like the parts in colour are intended to be from his perspective, and the real weight of what he did doesn’t actually hit until his security clearance is about to be revoked
I do think they probably could’ve at least mentioned it in some other way though
gloomy olive
Is it responsible to make a movie about not giving a fuck about atrocities? Plus the third act is about his moral qualms so is that even true. And his security clearance getting pulled is like a baby being punished.
Personally I don’t find anguished looks of him clutching his head enough to like excuse him. And even if the movie is meant to hold him accountable that’s muddled by the entire Strauss subplot
Which pretty much paints him as a victim lol
supple slate
Like the parts in colour are intended to be from his perspective, and the real w...
I thought the idea was that he secretly wanted to be punished for what he did and losing the clearance was a way of doing that
Didnt Emily Blunt flat out say that?
hollow frost
The thing that the movie didn't really make clear
is that by the time of the hearing, in the early 50s, anything related to nuclear energy was classified
losing his security clearance meant he wasn't able to basically exist as the same person
no job, no friends who could or would be willing to talk to him
flat gull
Which pretty much paints him as a victim lol
I read the Strauss subplot as just showing the irony of the whole situation. The one person to bring actual consequences to Oppenheimer doesn’t do it because of the bomb, but because he embarrassed him one time
I definitely don’t think the movie is perfect by any means tho
The Florence Pugh subplot in particular is just bizarre
gloomy olive
I mean they completely gloss over him being a womanizer and basically glorify it
And yes I do think it’s intended to show the irony but just because that’s the intention doesn’t mean it’s actually effective, imo.
flat gull
And yes I do think it’s *intended* to show the irony but just because that’s the...
that’s fair
gloomy olive
Like I think Nolan thought the Kyoto crossed off the list hit REALLY hard as a way to paint the bureaucrats
But I don’t think it’s the win he thinks it is
hollow frost
the kyoto thing was just a real thing that happened too
gloomy olive
Yeah I know it’s real but honestly like there needed to be more moments like that
flat gull
I think the Truman scene was the best at being like “oh this dude is an actual monster”
imo
I do think they also could’ve cut some of the more marvel-esque moments
Like when he suits up in the Oppenheimer outfit
or the jfk namedrop
gloomy olive
Yes those are cringe moments
The Truman scene just felt like a caricature like it was too over the top compared to the rest of the movie which is. Very. Serious.
Nolan thinks he’s the Oppenheimer of film freal freal
When his scenes about actual tender moments make me think he’s a lizard in human skin
hollow frost
yeah the literal suit up part was dumb lmao
and as far as "teasing historical figures like marvel cameos" moments go, the JFK one was better than what The King's Man did
flat gull
I gotta give The King’s Man points for commitment
worldly dagger
The JFK name drop is a tie in to Oliver Stone’s film
supple slate
Its actually a reference to a character in call of duty zombies
gloomy olive
The JFK name drop is a tie in to Oliver Stone’s film
Are you Shit posting? Because this movie has a lot in common with that one lol
worldly dagger
I am
gloomy olive
Lmao I figured
worldly dagger
Its actually a reference to a character in call of duty zombies
Gentlemen, zombies.
supple slate
Pray to be…strongah men
worldly dagger
I have not seen Oliver Stone’s President conspiracy universe
dusky jackal
I can't tell if the JFK name drop is dumb, or MCU brainrot makes me think any name drop is like some marvel thing
remote bear
Amazing movie
Makes me want to rewatch Chernobyl, which moved me in similar ways
And Twin Peaks: The Return, Part 8
astral ether
I don’t think Nolan sees himself as Oppenheimer when the movie portrays him as completely spineless
Even from the beginning
gloomy olive
I don’t think he’s spineless
remote bear
Gary Oldman as Truman is lol
I completely missed this! Knew he looked familiar but couldn’t figure it out
gloomy olive
Haha id recognize that scally wag anywher e
novel forge
I got the film strip from buying IMAX post card! But I accidentally cut into while opening the package…
novel forge
bitter vale
Alright so general thoughts. This film is very well made and crafted. Superbly acted, surprisingly well paced for a 3 hour film, and in IMAX the sound and picture are just unreal in some parts. That being said, I think the story structure leaves a lot to be desired and leads to first and third acts feeling unbalanced, especially since I predicted that RDJ’s character was the one who set up Oppenheimer to get security clearance pulled very early on. The balance of the two stories didn’t work very well overall and the apex of the film should have been the trinity test. Additionally, while you don’t need to show the dropping of Hiroshima and Nagasaki, they had ample opportunity to show the aftermath from Oppenheimers perspective (they even have a scene where he is looking at photos we don’t see). He’s imaginary scene doesn’t go far enough to showing the impact to humanity of dropping the bomb, and it could have. Those small opportunities that were missed leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth on how it portrays the bomb and by extension Oppenheimer himself.
bitter vale
I think it’s a beautifully crafted film that doesn’t work for me. And I think it...
I’m struggling to determine if I agree with you here or not, I think not because I think its still an interesting piece of art overall that isn’t directly (keyword) harmful. Like Joker, I don’t think Joker should have been made because it is directly harmful in glorifying that incel mindset imo.
gloomy olive
I thought they should have showed the photos tbh
astral ether
I disagree
I like the leaving the horrors to the minds interpretation approach works better because otherwise it would have felt exploitative
gloomy olive
I’m struggling to determine if I agree with you here or not, I think not because...
I don’t know if it’s harmful like Joker, but ultimately it comes across as disrespectful which is why I feel like it didn’t need to be told. Like you said about how it portrays the bomb and Oppenheimer.
astral ether
Not to mention I think it works better in showing the government just shrugging off such a massive loss of life as nothing, and if anything necessary. That’s more chilling for me
gloomy olive
And tbh I don’t think anyone is getting the horror of the mind thing as it’s more focused on sad boy Oppy.
astral ether
Well then again we disagree on how good Oppy leaves the movie looking
worldly dagger
Dw I am, Cz
astral ether
I found it to be pretty damning of him and you found it to be a story of a misunderstood tragic genius
bitter vale
I don’t know if it’s harmful like Joker, but ultimately it comes across as disre...
Yeah I can understand that point of view.
astral ether
I think that’s good though. This is a movie that lets you actively engage with the material
bitter vale
I think it honestly stays fairly neutral on him ultimately.
But the fact that we are discussing it shows its good art imo.
gloomy olive
I mean I think it’s damning of him??
I can think Oppenheimer sucks and hold a different opinion of what I think the narrative of the movie is.
I’m saying I don’t think Nolan thinks he’s a bad dude.
bitter vale
I think Nolan is leaving it for us decide if he’s good or bad.
bitter vale
I think Cz you were looking for it to straight up condemn Oppenheimer more and while I can understand that, I don’t think that was Nolan’s intention.
I think whats missing is the “opposite view” or “non objective” view scenes (B&W) during Trinity
astral ether
I think Cz you were looking for it to straight up condemn Oppenheimer more and w...
And that’s one thing I like about it, it’s condemning but it’s not in your face about it
gloomy olive
I mean think the entirety of the program and the bombings should be condemned, yes. But they’re still glorifying Oppenheimer in a way that doesn’t sit right to me.
Like the opposite views are basically oppy looking sad / conflicted.
bitter vale
Thats totally fair and valid criticism Cz
gloomy olive
And the handling of the women in the movie is downright offensive. They’re props to Oppy.
They practically glorify his womanizing
bitter vale
Oh yeah well thats Nolan and his awful work with women characters for you
Honestly, what is the best female character in a Nolan film?
gloomy olive
Fucking none
bitter vale
I can’t think of any really outstanding ones. Interstellar comes the closest to having women that feel like people I think.
gloomy olive
I just don’t think Matt Damon running down a list of Oppy’s bad character traits is enough to condemn the man. It’s basically the same type of narrative stroke they do for like, Tony Stark lol
bitter vale
Oh yeah thats the other thing, RDJ is fine in the film, but Damon is imo the better supporting performance
gloomy olive
And yeah probably Interstellar - I think it’s the most human of all of his films probably. Maybe the prestige?
bitter vale
Murphy is likely getting a nomination though 100%
gloomy olive
I feel like Matt Damon is kinda playing the character he always plays tho ngl. Which isn’t like a negative tho just kinda is what it is
bitter vale
And the handling of the women in the movie is downright offensive. They’re props...
To this point though, the color scenes are supposed to be Oppy’s view point, so the fact that you are thinking of them as props for him is basically the movie saying thats how he sees them at well, which is pretty damning for me at least.
gloomy olive
I don’t think the average viewer will realize that.
Also the apple thing is crazy how it just gets glossed over. Normal people aren’t out here doing that shit and then the convo he has about it with Pugh is cringe.
bitter vale
Oh agreed, the movie doesn’t do enough to show us the difference between the Fission and Fusion story lines at all
bitter vale
Also the apple thing is crazy how it just gets glossed over. Normal people aren’...
That scene where he grabs it out of Bohr’s hand was laughable
gloomy olive
Yes
gloomy olive
Idk how anyone can say it’s a perfect movie when naked Pugh grabs the book and makes him read. That scene is laughable and then the line….
bitter vale
Idk how anyone can say it’s a perfect movie when naked Pugh grabs the book and m...
OMG THAT TOO
SO bad
gloomy olive
It’s the worst scene in the movie I think
bitter vale
I can agree with that.
Ultimately, Barbie won Barbienheimer for me
Like hands down
astral ether
And the handling of the women in the movie is downright offensive. They’re props...
I’m gonna get made fun of for saying this
gloomy olive
Well that’s obvious how I feel about that
astral ether
And this is something I don’t think was artistic intent
But nolan writing women like shit worked from oppy’s pov
gloomy olive
Lol I’m done here
I will say I’m not gonna be an army of 1 against Nolanheads but my criticism of this film isn’t unique
astral ether
I know
bitter vale
Oh no its not and I don’t necessarily disagree with it
gloomy olive
I think Dunkirk is better tbh
bitter vale
I agree with it more than I disagree with it
astral ether
And I don’t want to seem like I’m saying a lot of your criticisms are invalid just because I disagree
bitter vale
I think Dunkirk is better tbh
I think so too tbh. I think this might be slightly better directed but Dunkirk is a tighter film.
astral ether
It’s not my intent but I do fear it’s the vibe I’m giving off
bitter vale
Like I think Chris Nolan just wanted an excuse to see Florence Pugh naked
gloomy olive
It’s kind of like three movies tho. You could have made an entire movie about the communism stuff probably
astral ether
Like I think Chris Nolan just wanted an excuse to see Florence Pugh naked
100%
bitter vale
There is 100% at least two movies here
astral ether
I thought it was funny
agile wasp
I like Nolan’s fiction. I don’t like his non-fiction
bitter vale
And he doesn’t justify them being one film
agile wasp
Also the third act was confusing as fuck to me. First act as well
gloomy olive
I will say Murphy does a really good job no question
bitter vale
The acting is superb top to bottom imo
agile wasp
Murphy is great, just wished he caught Oppys gaunt look a little bit more
Dude talked and looked like a corpse IRL
bitter vale
Florence Pugh’s character is written awfully but her acting is good
agile wasp
I didn’t give a shit bout Pughs character
bitter vale
Honestly, they could have cut everything with Pugh’s character out of the film. It was a waste
gloomy olive
I think it’s just very disappointing to get such a well crafted movie that is still so… cis white male. It’s like… too traditional. Like there’s just no consideration for other elements and I find it to be an irresponsible decision given the subject matter.
agile wasp
But it was the 1940s
bitter vale
I’m not 100% sure what you mean there?
gloomy olive
Okay and Mad Men and has more nuance
agile wasp
Madmen is fiction isn’t it
gloomy olive
And was more reflective of social issues at the time
Uh do you think women didn’t exist at the time?
Or indigenous people
agile wasp
In a movie about developing the atomic bomb?
bitter vale
Indigenous people is a fair criticism
gloomy olive
Like you’re basically proving my point which is showing history through that lense is tired
Because history was happening for everyone else at that time
Including his wife
astral ether
I don’t want Christopher Nolan to make a movie showing the indigenous perspective
It’s not his story to tell
gloomy olive
Im not saying it has to be one or the other
astral ether
And it would have been doing too much to fit it in imo
gloomy olive
Anyway I think what I like about interstellar is even though that movie isn’t wholly successful at what it’s trying to do, I think the ending is kind of subversive with its ultimate power of love stuff? Like who would expect that from a sci-fi alpha masculine Matthew Mccantspellhisname vehicle. It feels like Nolan stepping out of his comfort zone more.
agile wasp
Felt like he stepped out with Inception
bitter vale
Like you’re basically proving my point which is showing history through that len...
I think you were hoping for a movie more about the Manhattan Project from an impartial lens, this is being shown from the lens of Oppy 100% and its ultimately about him. I think we agree on the fact that not showing more from the impartial POV like they did with the stuff with RDJ’s character weakens the film but even then I don’t think it would work to explore too much outside of Oppy’s role in things.
gloomy olive
I think you were hoping for a movie more about the Manhattan Project from an imp...
Well it is also kind of weird they only do it for parts of the movie
But beedont didnt realize the distinction between color and black and white until I told him
bitter vale
Anyway I think what I like about interstellar is even though that movie isn’t wh...
Because Interstellar was developed by his brother primarily, Chris came in to direct after Spielberg moved to working with Disney for a bit.
gloomy olive
yeah well that explains a lot
bitter vale
Well it is also kind of weird they only do it for parts of the movie
Oh 100% agree, they needed more of the B&W stuff.
gloomy olive
Christopher Nolan is a robot and you won’t convince me otherwise
This movie was about what I expected and I still maintain it shouldn’t have been made. Bagel mentioned Chernobyl
Imagine if that had just been made from the like, Russian propaganda POV
totally different show
bitter vale
Yep I get your position and its valid, I don’t agree but its valid.
gloomy olive
I don’t think these two pieces of media have much in common.
agile wasp
Iono guys, that last scene in Oppenheimer was haunting as fuck
gloomy olive
And the JFK line is in the top five cringes
agile wasp
I don’t think anyone’s celebrating about being able to destroy the world
bitter vale
I knew about it and cringed
gloomy olive
Except when they realize the bomb goes off it’s an entire scene of people cheering and no actual concern.
agile wasp
Well yeah in context, a world war was still going on
gloomy olive
there’s not a single person who has a face that’s like “what are we doing here”
gloomy olive
Even the guy who said he wasn’t going to stay as Los Alamos is there along for the ride
agile wasp
Whether mislead or not
bitter vale
They did that whole Oppy imagining the crowd burning up thing, but didn’t go far enough with it
Like that should have been 100x more horrifying
agile wasp
The regret came after the bomb was used lol
gloomy olive
I mean that’s not even true Jiga considering there are several scenes with the scientists doing the petitions etc
agile wasp
Like you’re not supposed to be siding with the fanatical cheering squad on the bench
gloomy olive
They show scenes of the scientists doubting as Los Alamos but once it goes off it’s all peachy to them
bitter vale
Oh also @agile wasp completely disagree with you on Trinity test not being impressive in IMAX
opaque sage
I think it's interesting that this movie has elicited the same conversations about Oppenheimer that historians have been having for decades.
agile wasp
Eh. I’m more lenient after watching actual footage
astral ether
It’s a good thing I have to go to work or I’ll be here all day
bitter vale
thats scene was stunning imo, like its kinda gross when you think about it though in the cheering about it after
agile wasp
But that’s exactly my point lolol
astral ether
thats scene was stunning imo, like its kinda gross when you think about it thoug...
See you’re getting it
bitter vale
I wanted more impact of the shockwave
Dude the shockwave sound startled me in my seat
astral ether
bitter vale
Like it shook me
agile wasp
They’re excited when they shouldn’t be, they haven’t realized what they’ve done
bitter vale
Litterally its so loud
agile wasp
You’re supposed to look at all these people like the fools they are
bitter vale
They’re excited when they shouldn’t be, they haven’t realized what they’ve done
Yes because of the view point we are seeing things from.
astral ether
It’s meant to make you feel gross even though the move doesn’t explicitly go oh you should be feeling gross here
bitter vale
I think we should have had a B&W scene right after this showing the people who weren’t celebrating
bitter vale
It’s meant to make you feel gross even though the move doesn’t explicitly go *oh...
I half agree with this.
astral ether
I refuse to call a Nolan movie subtle but the fact it wasn’t in your face about this is BAD and it instead just lets you feel gross
bitter vale
They could have used music queues more to get the gross feeling across
astral ether
Idk I’m too used to blockbuster movies that just tell you the message
supple slate
I like the leaving the horrors to the minds interpretation approach works better...
Yeah I feel like theres plenty of other stories that properly show the impact of the bombings on Japan and that Nolan really isnt the guy who should be telling their story
astral ether
Japanese cinema exists
Not to mention that this is a movie explicitly from an ignorant white male perspective
agile wasp
I think y’all are seeing this as some sort of glorification or celebration of Oppy, but to me it felt more like regret
opaque sage
Everyone here should do a Gojira watch after this movie as a follow-up. I think Internet Archive has it.
gloomy olive
I know all about Gojira and have watched more Godzilla films than I care to as I have two friends obsessed
supple slate
I think y’all are seeing this as some sort of glorification or celebration of Op...
I definitely dont think its a celebration, it feels more like Nolan did not want to take a side on if he is evil or not.
bitter vale
Everyone here should do a Gojira watch after this movie as a follow-up. I think ...
You can call it Godzilla, you don’t have to be pretentious and call it Gojira 
Especially since 1954 film you can distinguish and call American version Godzilla, King of Monsters!
supple slate
One of my friends is a SUPER SUPER ultra mega Godzilla fan and he always calls the first one Gojira
The rest are just Godzilla
gloomy olive
Yes and also Godzilla nerds are extreme
agile wasp
I definitely dont think its a celebration, it feels more like Nolan did not want...
That’s what I don’t get, at what point of the movie does Nolan go, Oppy not bad or good
bitter vale
I still think thats kinda stupid ngl
The OG 54 film is only one I’ve watched outside newer American films so far and I do love it
opaque sage
Is that a thing really?
I call the original Gojira specifically to differentiate it from the American edit of the film that removes all the bomb sumbolism
supple slate
Hes got what probably equates to 100 grand worth of rare Godzilla merch. He got a lot of it from swap meets. Like some random dinosaur toy that sells for 1000 bucks he would get for like 15
Godzilla nerds are another level
bitter vale
I call the original Gojira specifically to differentiate it from the American ed...
Sure, but again that film has the separate subtitle for distinguishing purposes.
opaque sage
I suppose.
bitter vale
And yes the bomb stuff in that film is incredible
agile wasp
To me this is a documentary, just like dunkirk
bitter vale
But again this film isn’t about Hiroshima and Nagasaki
supple slate
That’s what I don’t get, at what point of the movie does Nolan go, Oppy not bad ...
Its not so much that he did a specific thing, its more that I felt he just didnt take a side
agile wasp
Sounds like Nolan to me
bitter vale
To me this is a documentary, just like dunkirk
You aren’t watching these movies correctly imo if you see them as “documentaries” because these are biased interpertations of real life events.
opaque sage
But again this film isn’t about Hiroshima and Nagasaki
And Godzilla 54 is really about Castle Bravo and the fisherman that were poisoned by its fallout
agile wasp
Up to you to decide
supple slate
At the end of the day, its still a movie that im sure has a lot of absolute fiction in it
gloomy olive
I mean they aren’t documentaries 🤣🤣🤣
opaque sage
Hearing you talk about it makes me think of how graphic Schindler's List got depicting its subject matter, and I wonder whether that should have been more of a thing.
supple slate
No not at all
gloomy olive
Documentary is called a documentary for a reason but I’m not gonna fight over the literal dictionary
It’s a biopic which is SUBJECT TO BIAS
supple slate
Ken Burns Oppenheimer when
gloomy olive
Nolan could have made Oppenheimer gay and into orgies for all he wanted
Cuz it’s not a documentary
gloomy olive
Maybe the sex would be better
agile wasp
I’m pretty sure Pugh had sex with Oppy on the office though
supple slate
Someone on twitter was asking if she really had sex with him during the hearing
supple slate
Ive read so many bad interpretations of media on twitter im not even sure if he was joking
astral ether
Someone on twitter was asking if she really had sex with him during the hearing ...
Every time I think I’ve seen the dumbest take on this movie on Twitter
It goes deeper
I saw a kid on tiktok call this movie military propaganda
Military propaganda is when the military is in the movie
bitter vale
Lmao, if theres one group this film 100% paints negatively its the military
supple slate
It’s definitely not a pro government movie thats for sure
bitter vale
The Truman scene kinda made me laugh tbh, it was kinda bad.
Like him taking out his handkerchief was cringey
hollow frost
also a real thing that happened
bitter vale
Holy fuck really
hollow frost
truman's response to him idk about the hankerchief
opaque sage
Is that the scene where it's a POV shot at a table?
gloomy olive
tbh I don't think the make up for truman was great
bitter vale
It was whatever
hollow frost
yeah but where else could you sneak gary oldman into this
gloomy olive
It was just like "this is gary oldman in old people make up" it was too much gary oldman
bitter vale
Also now Gary Oldman needs to some how play Stalin
So that he can have acted as all three from Potsdam
agile wasp
Where was My Cocaine?
hollow frost
Not in it, surprisingly
bitter vale
Oh yeah didn’t mention score earlier, clear favorite right now imo for that award that was very good
dusky jackal
bitter vale
supple slate
astral ether
astral ether
Oh my god 😭😭😭
astral ether
bitter vale
So my friend came up with a great interpretation of the B&W scenes, its not Strauss’s view point (or a completely third person one) but his lawyer (or aide I guess according to IMDb)
And I can get behind that
flat gull
Interesting perspective but I think the black and white scenes early on kinda disprove that
Specifically the ones with Einstein, Strauss, and Oppenheimer
bitter vale
Interesting perspective but I think the black and white scenes early on kinda di...
It’s him hearing Strauss’s telling of things
flat gull
That’s true yeah
bitter vale
He is an ultimately unnamed character (seriously IMDb just says Senate Aide) and it’s the only way his character makes sense to be such a big part of the film.
dusky jackal
So my friend came up with a great interpretation of the B&W scenes, its not Stra...
I had someone suggest B&W is 100% happened and documented so there's almost nothing changed for those events
Where as in color there's some leeway and interpretation
worldly dagger
They ran out of color when they filmed the B&W scenes
bitter vale
They ran out of color when they filmed the B&W scenes
Good joke, but the truth is even funnier. Nolan had to specially have IMAX B&W film made, first time its ever been made
bitter vale
I had someone suggest B&W is 100% happened and documented so there's almost noth...
So I’ve heard this too, but there’s clearly some POV character in this and I think it makes most sense for it to be the aide at end of the day
dusky jackal
So I’ve heard this too, but there’s clearly some POV character in this and I thi...
yeah going by what Nolan said about objective vs subjective, the aide does make sense as hes trying to understand all the truth
supple slate
They ran out of color when they filmed the B&W scenes
Barbie caused the color shortage
bitter vale
Hold on let me get Nolan’s direct quote
“I knew that I had two timelines that we were running in the film,” Nolan said. “One is in color, and that’s Oppenheimer’s subjective experience. That’s the bulk of the film. Then the other is a black and white timeline. It’s a more objective view of his story from a different character’s point of view.”
He does say its an objective view, from a different character POV
Mind you, interperation of art belongs to the beholder, you can say that B&W is actually from an alien’s POV and if you can back it up I’ll accept it
earnest nexus
Twitter
astral ether
gloomy olive
bitter vale
Short screenplay book for such a long film
I’ll have to see how many script pages it is when they do the FYC one
Also though, I would rather Barbie screenplay
worldly dagger
Also though, I would rather Barbie screenplay <:Jessie:551123632156442639>
As an audiobook entirely read by Helen Mirren
bitter vale
As an audiobook entirely read by Helen Mirren
Omg yes
bitter vale
https://www.amazon.com/Oppenheimer-Christopher-Nolan/dp/0571381316
Okay this might be worth getting to read a first person screenplay
That sounds intriguing
novel forge
It would be best to open from its wide side.
mellow oxide
That’s valid change
astral ether
I disagree
bitter vale
People are missing imo the biggest historical inaccuracy from my POV, Oppenheimer mentions concentration camps during a time period I dont think he’d have knowledge of them
To me that is huge, I get the point of underscoring the creators of the bomb as the same as those being persecuted by the Germans it was designed to be used against, but its weird.
worldly dagger
Very valid change for the death count
hollow frost
earnest nexus
Because it would be viewed as objective truth by its audience, making it misinformation.
earnest nexus
Did you not read the rest of the sentence?
bitter vale
So actually this is an interesting question because I think it depends on the story and when this is being told. Is this Oppenheimer recalling from memory or are we getting his POV in present tense. The screenplay will reveal this and if it’s past tense than using updated numbers it’s fine.
dusky jackal
astral ether
https://twitter.com/ATRightMovies/status/1687039022147751936 this is awesome LMAO
astral ether
supple slate
Twitter
hollow frost
The color scenes are
gloomy olive
that's because Nolan fancies himself a tortured genius like oppy
bitter vale
Did my video not post?
Interesting video about Oppenheimer not discussing truth of us not actually having to drop the bomb
There we go, good video about how America didn’t actually need to drop bomb and they knew this even during Oppenheimer’s time
supple slate
Did Oppenheimer himself know this though?
The movie doesnt really shy away from Americans being bloodthirsty in the war. If Oppenheimer was aware that the bombs weren’t necessary and still made them, i think its important to bring up, but if this is info he didnt know, I dont see why it would be in the movie about his perspective
bitter vale
I’m not sure, maybe latter in life he did like during the time of his security clearance review. I’m unsure tbh
Theres a lot of weird things about the way this movie portrays things, and I’ve heard about 4 or 5 different interpretations on it. Which ultimately is good, I think if you have a story this complex seeing different views and opinions on it is great.
remote bear
Didn't the movie bring this up?
supple slate
Did it? I do not remember that
remote bear
Maybe I'm mixing up the timeline but I feel like there was a scene where Oppie/someone made the case about this was to thrawt the Nazis, not Japan?
Could also be confusing podcast/reddit lingo for what was in the movie. It's all a bit blurry at this point.
supple slate
Oh yeah the plan was originally Germany but once they surrendered Japan became the target
Idk if they mentioned that Japan had conditions to surrender without the bomb, they did say something about them not wanting to surrender
remote bear
Right, I guess I might be misremembering whether or not Oppie knew -- at least in the movie -- before everything moved ahead. Like I kind of recall him in the room when they decided where to bomb trying to speak up against it?
Once this movie hits streaming/digital it's going to open a can of worms
opaque sage
Idk if they mentioned that Japan had conditions to surrender without the bomb, t...
I believe the government in Japan (I don't recall if it was a parliament or what they called it) was deadlocked and it fell to the emperor
flat gull
Yeah I’m not fully sure but I remember them making a point of like the us government still wanting to drop the bomb even tho the Nazis had been defeated
remote bear
They definitely made that point, I'm just trying to remember if Oppie tried to take a stand. I feel like he did but also could've completely made that scene up in my mind. I remember him saying something on the couch next to Matt Damon and being told to shut up
remote bear
I believe the government in Japan (I don't recall if it was a parliament or what...
I don't believe Japan even surrended after the first bomb was dropped?
opaque sage
They did not. There was a full three days between the two bombs
During which time the Russians also staged a land invasion on the Japanese territory in China
remote bear
Just read that part on Wikipedia too, yea. This is such a stupid comment to make, but history becomes even more bizarre to comb through as you get older.
Like, how is this real. How could something like this happen. And then you start to realize it could happen again and as you age up, it becomes even more terrifying to think that your life could be completely ruined in unimaginable ways. I also watched The Pianist a few weeks ago and I'm still kind of reeling from that. Sorry to be a downer.
flat gull
It does kinda bug me that so much of the criticism around Oppenheimer is people just incapable of understanding that movie is told from a specific point of view
opaque sage
The eastern theater of the second world war was about as black and white as you could hope for in a conflict that large. One side was Nazis, the other side wasn't.
The Pacific theater was anything but
bitter vale
It does kinda bug me that so much of the criticism around Oppenheimer is people ...
I mean I get what you mean by that. But at the same time, the film opens itself up by having a section that discusses things not from Oppenheimer’s POV to show more imo. Also the film chooses what to show like only showing his reaction to imagery of the bombings rather than showing any imagery itself. Theres interconnection between it all.
flat gull
I mean I get what you mean by that. But at the same time, the film opens itself ...
I get that, but it’s not like the black and white section isn’t also deeply rooted in another characters pov. Ultimately, just because the movie doesn’t call out a specific event as being a bad thing, it doesn’t mean it condones it
opaque sage
So, I haven't seen this movie (I just like this stuff) but I have read some interviews with Nolan.
It seems like the story that so captivated him was about Oppenheimer creating the bomb for America and then America stabbing him in the back.
bitter vale
It seems like the story that so captivated him was about Oppenheimer creating th...
Having seen the film, sorta but not really.
Theres a lot to think about in this film and I can’t wait to see it again.
Well I will because I want to watch it next at home where I can watch in a more thoughtful manner
earnest nexus
It does kinda bug me that so much of the criticism around Oppenheimer is people ...
My criticism isn’t failing to understand that, I dislike how narrow Nolan’s focus is for all his movies.
opaque sage
My criticism isn’t failing to understand that, I dislike how narrow Nolan’s focu...
And that's kind of where the rub is. Because if you're Nolan and you just want to make a movie about Oppenheimer and his past catching up with him, you can see where he might get the idea that the reality of the atomic age (and not just the concept of it) is sort of irrelevant.
He just kind of cuts the parts out where it wouldn't be
earnest nexus
Right, it’s not a criticism of the movie, it’s a criticism of Nolan being one to talk about the issues in this movie.
Because some of the audience will view his POV moments as a modern understanding of the events in the movie and they’re not.
bitter vale
Unrelated to this, someone I know saw Oppenheimer in 70mm IMAX and some how fell asleep at parts
And I am baffled as to how
supple slate
Maybe a hot take, but if you get all your opinions on a real historical event from a Nolan movie, you may just be an idiot who certainly wasnt going to actually study what really happened regardless
To be clear, People arent dumb for wanting more in the movie
bitter vale
I will say if nothing else this makes me want to read even more about the events of the bombings.
And the aftermath
earnest nexus
Maybe a hot take, but if you get all your opinions on a real historical event fr...
I mean, most people are that stupid though. It’s irresponsible not to acknowledge that.
supple slate
I will say if nothing else this makes me want to read even more about the events...
Oh that too, my issue is with people who see the movie and think, YEP THATS THE TRUE STORY AND ALL I NEED TO KNOW. The flip side where people actually wanna learn more is definitely real, and id like to imagine more people are like this than not
opaque sage
I think there's also something to be said about a movie that's already 3 hours long not wishing to litigate a question that hasn't been satisfactorily answered in almost a century of historiography. But I can see where it might ultimately be sacrificing historical authenticity for story.
supple slate
I mean, most people are that stupid though. It’s irresponsible not to acknowledg...
Yeah some people are gonna think that the movie is total fact and everything they need to know to understand the entire story, but is it really Nolans job to also add a bunch of stuff so those people dont have the wrong impression?
earnest nexus
Yeah some people are gonna think that the movie is total fact and everything the...
I think it’s Nolan’s job to recognize the impact his movie will have on people, yes.
supple slate
Nolan wanted to tell Oppenheimers story from primarily Oppenheimers point of view. Thats what he did.
earnest nexus
Like I said, it’s not a criticism of the movie so much as a criticism of Nolan taking on a mass death event from a narrow lens at all.
supple slate
He didnt need to add a bunch of , by the way Americans suck for this specific reason, or have scenes in Japan dealing with the aftermath, thats not the story hes telling.
earnest nexus
Nobody is stopping him from making what he wants, but it’s reasonable to criticize him for choosing to make it.
opaque sage
He didnt need to add a bunch of , by the way Americans suck for this specific re...
Do they talk much about Operation Downfall?
supple slate
Nobody is stopping him from making what he wants, but it’s reasonable to critici...
I just cant see the issue when he never pretended that this was the true story of the atomic bomb and all the facts
earnest nexus
He didnt need to add a bunch of , by the way Americans suck for this specific re...
Again, I’m not saying he should have revised the movie as it exists, I’m challenging that he should have made a movie on this story from this POV at all.
bitter vale
He didnt need to add a bunch of , by the way Americans suck for this specific re...
No but he could have had a bit more pieces. The film I think at the end of the day is anti-nuke, but it doesn’t quite go far enough
supple slate
My thing is, i dont think a ton of time needs to be spent hammering home the idea that nukes are bad, I think thats just a given
earnest nexus
I don’t think it is a given? Most people still think America was justified in using them.
supple slate
In the context of the movie though?
opaque sage
My thing is, i dont think a ton of time needs to be spent hammering home the ide...
I rather don't. I will vilify Douglas McArthur and America's occupation of Japan quite happily, but the actual use of the bombs is perhaps the most fraught event in the 20th Century
supple slate
Anyone who watched this movie and came out pro nuking japan is just an idiot and nothing you could have added would possibly change that in my honest opinion
flat gull
the movie portrays the celebration after the bomb is dropped as being horrifying tho? I don’t see how that portrays the US as being justified
bitter vale
the movie portrays the celebration after the bomb is dropped as being horrifying...
It does, but I think even that scene can easily be misinterpreted because it doesn’t go far enough.
earnest nexus
Horrifying and justified aren’t opposites.
The bomb was always seen as horrific. That’s not new.
I’m just saying, given how Nolan crafts movies, I’d rather him not take on topics like this.
Because his narrow POV focus isn’t unique to this movie but is very limiting when discussing historical tragedies.
bitter vale
History in schools at least when I went did a lot of teaching on the horrors of the dropping of the bomb, but the myth of the necessity was also taught. This film reinforces that myth and it could have done a bit more to combat the myth I’d say.
flat gull
Horrifying and justified aren’t opposites.
Fair, but I think it’s still heavily implied that it wasn’t necessary
earnest nexus
History in schools at least when I went did a lot of teaching on the horrors of ...
But I’ll add it wouldn’t be a Nolan movie if it did combat the myth. Because that would be pulling back from the POV.
bitter vale
But I’ll add it wouldn’t be a Nolan movie if it did combat the myth. Because tha...
I’m not sure, I’ll have to do readings on what Oppenheimer knew after the war about the necessity of dropping the bomb
earnest nexus
Oppenheimer may have known, but publicly he defended it for a long time after.
It’s the challenge working from a single POV like this.
bitter vale
Yeah so looking at thing yep. But I think panning out from the POV at the end could have been done.
supple slate
I just dont like the idea that single narratives dont work when its in the context of a bigger event. Nothing Nolan did was inaccurate or even that misleading
earnest nexus
I think narrow lens on tragedies are always dangerous as a filmmaking technique.
bitter vale
I think ultimately that is the biggest issue of the film, the POV is limiting. Its a unique aspect of the film, but there was opportunity to pull away a bit and by not pulling away it hurts the message of the film. I do think the message of the film is you are supposed to feel conflicted on Oppenheimer as a person and his actions in regards to the bomb. You are supposed to celebrate his achievement while also recognizing that he himself and the wider would forever question if it should have been done in the first place. The problem is the film tries to do that by using the H-Bomb as a stand in of sorts for that and that doesn’t actually work.
@gloomy olive I’m starting more and more to agree with your stance on this film maybe should never have been made. I understand it at least more.
supple slate
Are we supposed to celebrate the achievement though. Theres a scene of him nearly having a panic attack when hes actually being celebrated
gloomy olive
Wasgo is saying everything I've been saying but more eloquently, ha ha ha.
flat gull
Are we supposed to celebrate the achievement though. Theres a scene of him nearl...
yeah lol
gloomy olive
I'm just saying if Nolan made a sympathetic POV movie about what it's like to be a Pedo, y'all would be like, DAFUQ??? a much easier concept to grasp.
earnest nexus
I'm just saying if Nolan made a sympathetic POV movie about what it's like to be...
No, you’re thinking of Woody Allen now.
flat gull
I felt sympathetic to him because he basically lost control of the bomb and got fucked over by some random dude he made fun of one time, not because he was smart and invented something crazy
bitter vale
Are we supposed to celebrate the achievement though. Theres a scene of him nearl...
He has the panic attack when the bomb actually is dropped, but they celebrate and theres very little other than your own morals to signify that this is gross after the Trinity test
supple slate
I'm just saying if Nolan made a sympathetic POV movie about what it's like to be...
Is the movie sympathetic to Oppenheimer though. He didnt actually have to make the bomb, he wasnt forced unless I missed something major.
gloomy olive
Also, sorry, but IMO, the idea of the american government stabbing someone in the back isn't new or clever.
Yes, I think the movie is sympathetic to Oppenheimer. Why would Nolan write the script in first person?
I'm not joking, I think a huge narrative of the film is "wah wah wah it's difficult to be a tortured genius especially when my ALLIES BETRAY ME" and I think Nolan absolutely does see himself as a bit of a tortured genius.
earnest nexus
I generally just believe that when you’re mining historical tragedies, you have a responsibility the material that Nolan’s style of filmmaking would never meet.
gloomy olive
The problem is that this is well within the context of a devastating historical event
So there are other factors at play here than one dude's dick measuring. Like go make a narrow POV about Bach.
bitter vale
I generally just believe that when you’re mining historical tragedies, you have ...
I fault not so much his filmmaking and direction, but his script writing here. I think if he had brought in his brother John to co-write we would have had a much more nuanced script
earnest nexus
I fault not so much his filmmaking and direction, but his script writing here. I...
Possibly. But Nolan loves his narrow focus and I don’t want to force him away from it.
supple slate
I'm not joking, I think a huge narrative of the film is "wah wah wah it's diffic...
Is it not accurate to what actually happened with Oppenheimer though. I totally get what you guys are saying, but I dont think the movie wants us to really feel bad for the guy moreso than show that hes a conflicted figure.
earnest nexus
I mean most of Nolan’s earlier films were co-written
I mean, his narrow focus is his exact explanation for inaudible dialogue. He believes that audio should be from a POV.
supple slate
I dont think the movie took a side on whether or not Oppenheimer is a hero or villain
earnest nexus
His whole philosophy of filmmaking is around POVs.
gloomy olive
I think framing it like this is pretty selfish and irresponsible from the filmmaker.
bitter vale
I dont think the movie took a side on whether or not Oppenheimer is a hero or vi...
I agree with that. But I think its easy to misinterpret the film as viewing him as a hero
gloomy olive
And to be honest, in terms of filmmaking, I don't think that the movie has to be either ALL oppenheimer or like, all the POV of Japanese/ Indigenuous pepole, honestly. Like what is the all or nothing mentality people have with that???
bitter vale
And thats the biggest issue
I’ve seen people I know who are smart and media literate misinterpret this film as being sympathetic towards Oppenheimer
gloomy olive
I mean, you have people calling it and Dunkirk a documentary. People misunderstand Nolan's dedication to realism.
earnest nexus
Again, this comes back to responsibility for me. Nolan could make a movie on almost any topic. Doing it on this one was irresponsible.
supple slate
Does Nolan have to pander to people thinking they are watching the full true story though? I can see the argument, but i certainly dont think its irresponsible to make a movie about the guy, especially when he makes it as clear as humanely possible thats what it is
gloomy olive
I do think Nolan has enough sense to say he can't be fully sympathetic to Oppenheimer, but I think his lack of attention for the people surrounding him, who suffered, leans more towards a sympathetic view than I am willing to excuse for.
supple slate
Is someone misinterpreting the message a Nolan issue or an individual viewer issue
earnest nexus
I don’t think it’s pandering. I think it’s recognizing the impact of his work.
gloomy olive
If he was more interesting in telling a more nuanced story the women of the film would have been more fleshed out.
And before anyone goes on their "it was teh 1940s" bullshit again, women existed and had feelings and opinions and thoughts and were real humans then.
bitter vale
If he was more interesting in telling a more nuanced story the women of the film...
Now you are hoping for too much in a Nolan film
earnest nexus
Next thing you’ll want diversity to be meaningful in a Nolan film.
gloomy olive
True. But if he's going to be touted as this amazing filmmaker, you'd think he'd be able to expand beyond the cis white male.
supple slate
Now you are hoping for too much in a Nolan film
I can agree with this lol
gloomy olive
Barbie does a better job of handling the male gender than anything Nolan has ever done regarding women or anything outside of what he is.
It's tired, not wired.
bitter vale
I don’t think it’s pandering. I think it’s recognizing the impact of his work.
Thats where I agree ultimately, I think Nolan in making this film should have thought more about the impact he has as a filmmaker.
bitter vale
Barbie does a better job of handling the male gender than anything Nolan has eve...
Thats because Greta Gerwig is a better filmmaker than Nolan
gloomy olive
Woaaahhh careful the Nolanheads will get you
But you know what? Greta Gerwig has to meet that expectation, as a woman. People are already pissed off enough about Barbie, imagine if she hadn't done the Kens justice.
bitter vale
Actually got an interesting Greta thing that I’m going to put in #tv-movies
gloomy olive
People just go. Oh, Nolan, it's how he is. He's a male. It's just boy things.
worldly dagger
Literal boys will be boys
gloomy olive
Nolan has a fuckin wife y'all, yeeesh
All of these things culminate for me in just a lack of regard for others, which is why I still think it was irresponsible to make it.
earnest nexus
“Oppenheimer’s story and Oppenheimer’s spirit have hung over a lot of my work,” Nolan says. “To finally address it head-on, it’s just something that I felt ready to do now.”
To Cz’s point, this is why Nolan made it.
gloomy olive
I'm gonna get Nolan drunk one day and get him to admit that he thinks he's Oppenheimer reincarnated or some shit, I swear
earnest nexus
The film itself is terrified by Oppenheimer’s accomplishment, reflecting its creator’s own fears for our future. “I don’t want to make a didactic film ever,” Nolan says. “I don’t want to tell people what to think or send a specific message.” But he also admits that after his journey through Oppenheimer’s life and work, there’s “there’s an inescapable nihilism that creeps in with the underlying reality that he changed the world in a way that can never be changed back. There’s no real catharsis there.”
Not wanting to tell people what to think is a questionable choice when you’re both sides’ing the atomic bomb.
gloomy olive
But you just don't understand the movie Wasgo, he came down so hard on it. 😛
The cheering is bad!
supple slate
I'm gonna get Nolan drunk one day and get him to admit that he thinks he's Oppen...
He doesnt think hes Oppenheimer. He thinks hes the protagonist
earnest nexus
Inaudible dialogue in Tenet was Nolan’s atomic bomb. The parallels are clear.
opaque sage
I guess it's a hot take of mine that I can't in good faith say that I'm 100% anti bomb. I think it was the most profoundly violent thing a human being has ever done against another, but I also think the rest of World War II would likely have come darn close if the war had continued. It's hard to say what I would have done in Truman's place.
Now, dropping the second one, on the other hand...
remote bear
I guess it's a hot take of mine that I can't in good faith say that I'm 100% ant...
I don’t think it’s a hot take – this is one of the most debated moments in history. It’s an impossible question to answer “correctly”
opaque sage
Well, in this channel?
bitter vale
I guess it's a hot take of mine that I can't in good faith say that I'm 100% ant...
But the whole thing is if the US offered Japan surrender with the condition of the emperor maintaining power and not being charged with war crimes, they likely would have accepted. And guess what, the emperor maintained his position and wasn’t charged with war crimes
remote bear
We’re solving everything on this discord
bitter vale
So….
lapis grove
The only other variable I can see to that Z is if the US post bombs went "Well, we may have over stepped so let's just call it even" in a sense as to why they ended up leaving the emperor in power.
opaque sage
It's also kind of a man-sized "if." IF Japan surrendered, it would have been great. We could fast forward to the unambiguously bad occupation of Japan.
agile wasp
Nolan's viewpoint aside, lets not forget that Japan was pretty fucking evil here. And there was another point that it was a race to beat the Germans. It started as a race to beat the Germans.
Like the bomb was going to be built. Either by the US or another world power. Whether or not Oppy decided to build it or not it was inevitable. Truman was the shitstain that decided to drop it. But again, its hard to argue if the use of the bomb was needed, or if it wasn't, then how many US lives would be given up should the war continue. Lets not forget how fucking fast Japan was progressing in taking over the pacific islands
remote bear
Unit 731
I think everyone on the internet has done that horrific deep dive at least once
flat gull
alongside that, the firebombing raids on Japan caused similar amounts of loss of life iirc
it wasn’t like the atomic bomb was the sole driver of the frankly horrific amount of casualties
agile wasp
Unit 731
exactly. If Nolan wanted to be political about it, he'd bring up one of the MANY atrocities that Japanese empire were committing at the time. Shit, he even brought up the question of it being "necessary" at that stage to drop it.
NEways, with that being said, for the movie itself, it was a 6.5/10 for me.
opaque sage
alongside that, the firebombing raids on Japan caused similar amounts of loss of...
Far more died in the firebombings, actually
But the bomb had tons of additional casualities
Another fun fact; every recipient of the Purple Heart between 1945 and 2000 was given a medal minted during WW2 for the express purpose of accommodating all the losses they were expecting in a land invasion of Japan.
They still haven't used them all
agile wasp
opaque sage
And then, like Bagel said, there was the whole plan to cause an outbreak of Bubonic Plague in San Francisco.
I don't support America's efforts to eradicate Japanese culture after the war, but I don't think there were really any good guys in the Pacific
There's a reason most of the pulp war hero stories of the day take place in Europe
astral ether
astral ether
worldly dagger
Jason Clarke always looks so angry
supple slate
novel forge
You cut into your film strip while opening your package too?
supple slate
Oh no, but it was bent to hell
Didnt realize yours was cut, just thiught it was bent
novel forge
bitter vale
Tempted but honestly likely not going to do it
Hope that they do like Interstellar and include a real film cell with the bluray
novel forge
I was hoping they would bring back the post cards.
novel forge
They’re up! And Sold out
valid jolt
It was just like "this is gary oldman in old people make up" it was too much gar...
No one is gonna read this but it was Jackson lamb in the Oval Office