#Antman and the Wasp:Quantumania

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quaint valley
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I gotta go to bed, I’m sure we scared people off from this channel with Discourse again like with most major franchise stuff ppRapLaugh

peak quiver
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I think its coming, I think we are just getting it slower vs all at once like we did with Thanos.

restive solstice
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oh no - thoughts

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how dreadful

golden moat
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It's too early in the phase to really know how things play out

peak quiver
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Thanos didn’t feel threatening really until Infinity War, even in GOTG he was sorta just a figure head while Nebula and Ronan were threats.

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Here, we are slowly seeing the manipulation factor of Kang, and it might make him even more terrifying in the end.

buoyant bronze
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I had to move my ticket to 27th and got yesterday ticket refunded on Saturday but they still gave me almost all the collectable tickets from the app

blazing mortar
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the council of kangs scene was really just to show that there are in fact other kangs

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beyond that

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it was just this panel

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blazing mortar
zenith dew
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I feel like this is a movie you give a pass to if you’re all in on Disney/MCU, however if you have any doubt of either of those entities it’s awful.

I hated it.

It’s one of the best examples of where the MCU has gone wrong for me: scripts written around set pieces that exist (and were already in production?) before a writer was even attached. The movie is 15 different ideas that don’t connect.

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My biggest gripe: Janet was there for 30-years and has nothing to say about that experience? Offer any help?

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I just wish these movies mattered still. Like, as individual achievements and not existing solely to fulfill a phase 5 step towards another “we’re all here!” title.

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And here’s a take: introducing the multiverse has rendered these movies meaningless, because there are no longer any stakes

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Unless we count recasting as a loss

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Okay I’m done, no more ranting!

quaint valley
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Also there was no issue when they sent Scott into the quantum realm in 2018 lmao

zenith dew
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Don’t make me go on a The Last Jedi rant 🤣

zenith dew
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It’s the same issue most anime/manga run into by chapter 100 when a massive baddie comes into the picture.

Like, you only appear when we are strong enough to actually deal with it?

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Imagine they took a chance and Kang wiped the floor with them and we didn’t get a resolution until Kang Dynasty?

jolly glacier
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also all the flash back with janet and scott was just them floating in the quantum realm

faint otter
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Multiverse sucks, but it doesn't lower stakes. Replacing a character I was invested in with another version of the same character from somewhere else in the multiverse doesn't also replace that investment.

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That's why Loki falls so flat to me, and why anything they do with Gamora is probably going to fall flat as well. Having Tom Hiddleston back to play Loki doesn't fucking matter if he isn't the same Loki we followed in the movies.

zenith dew
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Which is why I think the multiverse lowers the stakes — if you’re just going to replace someone with, at worst, the same actor and treat it the same as a memory loss arc, that sucks.

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If Gamora was a lizard in GOTG3, then that’s different. Sign me up.

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But I’d bet anything by the end of the movie she is back in love and it will have rendered the entire storyline moot.

quaint valley
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If it wasn’t James Gunn I’d agree

zenith dew
peak quiver
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Like I mean, GOGT 2 does some things right but I’m concerned about how this movie shakes out.

peak quiver
zenith dew
faint otter
zenith dew
faint otter
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It's the only thing I've wanted out of GotG 3 since Endgame didn't just unsnap everyone back alive like the comics.

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The Infinity Stones have infinite power, as long as you're interested in murder.

blazing mortar
silk ember
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Where the fuck is that dude lmao

zenith dew
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He and Wanda are definitely doing some sort of sacrifice move in Kang Dynasty

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Embracing while being consumed by multiverse lava

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And since these directors are creatively bankrupt there will probably be a 5-second bit where the audio drops, we only hear faint string music, and they see their children

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Smash cut to more lava

peak quiver
faint otter
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You don't have to take away the stakes, you just have to be creative

zenith dew
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Black Widow: Reborn

faint otter
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To me, the only reason Young Gamora existed in Infinity Warbwas to tease her still being in there.

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Like the fact that there was no twist to the idea and Thanos legitimately loved her makes no sense

peak quiver
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That doesn’t really make sense….to me Young Gamora isn’t anything more but a manifestation of Thanos’s thoughts.

silk ember
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Ooze ooze ooze ooze

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restive solstice
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what does it taste like?

silk ember
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Sour Cherry of course

restive solstice
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omggggggg i want

quaint valley
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I’ll have to drink the ooze when I’m there

mighty cove
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Best marvel movie since Shang Chi

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Don’t @ me

restive solstice
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There’s dozens of us now

mighty cove
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It just went straight to 100 for 2 hours

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Critics got this one wrong

quaint valley
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Best marvel movie since wakanda forever

mighty cove
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I’m so amped from the post credit scene

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Loki on the big screen

silk ember
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I think I need to see this again with a better popcorn bag ppRapLaugh

zenith dew
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We live in a Disney world

blazing mortar
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it's the first one that we explicitly know is for a show right

zenith dew
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I think so, yea

wispy horizonBOT
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Great job making magic @zenith dew! MickeySorcerer Mickey is promoting you to level 24 ! Cinderella

blazing mortar
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i wouldn't be surprised if the Ten Rings story with Shang-Chi's sister ends up becoming a show tho

zenith dew
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Forgot about that, yea.

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The wild thing about the Loki stinger is that it now makes season 2 must-watch, right? That is also insane. The D+ shows so far have felt like supplemental reading, but not required. This (seemingly) changes that.

blazing mortar
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Loki is the most directly tied to the multiverse saga

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Ms Marvel will probably feel like required reading when that movie comes out

restive solstice
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My favorite podcast is the big picture and they’re discussing quantumania and my favorite film critic who I’m mostly aligned with usually liked this movie. Haha I feel vindicated. Also funny but the ringers resident marvel fan didn’t like it in contrast

peak quiver
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WandaVision adds lot of context to MoM

zenith dew
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But I listen 🙂

restive solstice
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LMAOOOO

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I get why people wouldn’t like him

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He’s pretentious but honestly he’s me ppRapLaugh ppRapLaugh ppRapLaugh

zenith dew
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I don't like him because he acts like he is a "real New Yorker", but is actually from Long Island. Otherwise I love the guy 😂

restive solstice
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LOL

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I love the whole east coast ringer energy of a bunch of east coasters moved to LA

zenith dew
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Andy and CR are my guys

restive solstice
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I love them too! CR always adds to a pod

zenith dew
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But really I miss Jason C

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He was/is the best of that gang

restive solstice
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Me too ppMulanHands

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They really did lose a bunch of talent for awhile there

zenith dew
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And X-Ray Vision just doesn't hit the same as he and Mal destroying the universe in Binge Mode

quaint valley
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Like most of the recent post credits scenes

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We are never seeing Harry Styles again

restive solstice
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Hard agree - I gave up on x-ray vision

quaint valley
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Charlize Theron ain’t showing up again for YEARS

restive solstice
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I loved nba desktop so much

zenith dew
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OG Rewatchables with Jason and Shea are some of my favorite Ringer moments

restive solstice
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Yes!!

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Lmao so nice to meet another ringer fan 😂

zenith dew
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For real! I barely know anyone that listens (and I don't count r/billsimmons)

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Also The Town Rewatchables with Russillo cooking for 45-minutes is probably a top 3 all time podcast 😂

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I'm going to put it on right now because it makes me smile and I won't have to think about the MCU

restive solstice
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Lol r/billsimmons is so toxic it’s kinda hilarious

mighty cove
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Bill Simmons himself is toxic

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But going back to loki, that was about as well executed as it could be imo

blazing mortar
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I will say, the comment I saw before release about the Council scene kind of feeling like an SNL sketch was kinda right

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I get the intent was to show how drastically different each Kang can be

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But those costumes were something else lol

mighty cove
mighty cove
golden moat
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They also got a warning about the multiverse and I believe Kang mentioned his other selves.

mighty cove
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I also give a pass for movies not trying to explain what they didn’t write in the previous movie

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Aka episode 5-6 glossing over leia and Luke from episode 4

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The thing with Kang and how this is different from loki is that the Kang in loki was the good Kang, at least the goodest Kang we are gonna get. This Kang was obviously a bad kang.

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The editing in thor 4 just takes me out of it

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It’s so bad

golden moat
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Eh, both of those Kangs wanted the same thing in the end, they just had different ways of doing it. One destroyed timelines himself and the other used a time eating creature.

mighty cove
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He’s coming back though

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Hopefully

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Didn’t the time eating creature only eat like the end of the time stream

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Idk

golden moat
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Nope. He first used it to cull the timelines down to the singular one we had until Loki.

mighty cove
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Guess I missed that part of the monologue

golden moat
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Yeah. He said he studied Alioth and weaponized it

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Also indicated he was the first variant to travel to the end and Alioth was created from all the tears in reality.

mighty cove
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When they first got into the quantum world part I was like this is a Star Wars movie in my marvel movie

golden moat
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That's a common thought

mighty cove
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As whole, I agree not a very good “antman” movie, but it’s by far the best phase 4 movie in terms of actually leading into things

golden moat
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Also, did we see any other Kangs in the group shot that had glasses? Cause so far we have Victor Timely wearing glasses and the depiction of the Kang who find Alioth in the end episode of Loki has glasses. Different style but still

jolly glacier
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it didn’t really feel like star wars too me PikaShrug

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just cause theres aliens doesn’t make it star wars Jessie

mighty cove
restive solstice
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The costumes for the kang council looked bad

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I feel like it was rushed

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I think it feels like Star Wars because kang is basically the empire and there’s a rebel alliance plus aliens plus cantinas

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And the whole hiding from the empire bit and the weird lands and food

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Plus tbh, kinda subpar dialogue 😂

blazing mortar
restive solstice
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Hehe exactly

blazing mortar
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somehow, kang returned

mighty cove
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And a trap

quaint valley
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like this isnt that bad when it comes to the dialogue in this movie

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but WHEW

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spy kids 3

golden moat
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I found it amusing how he was just like drunk at that moment

normal ruin
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Her delivery there wasn’t great tbh

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Honestly overall I wasn’t bothered by the writing much

sleek edge
golden moat
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The aloith bit happened to show up in my feed so I figured why not add it here for reference

faint otter
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I wouldn't be surprised if some of all of them were borrowed from like, single panels in the comics. I happened to know what the pharaoh hat was a reference to (well, I can narrow it down to 2 because Kang was two different Egyptian Pharaohs I hate him so muchghfhfhfhfjhsh)

...but the rest were either original designs or extremely obscure.

peak walrus
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Im an avenger!

peak walrus
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How did I not know this was a thing

IMG_1620.png
candid nacelle
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Omg

buoyant bronze
golden moat
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Sounds about right for marvel these days. Asking for more but not wanting to pay for it.

restive solstice
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Is that Hal Sparks? Who is that?

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lmao i don't recognize him bald

acoustic oriole
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inb4 modok snapchat filter

restive solstice
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Dude honestly they should have done that

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They can add it to those photopass filters

acoustic oriole
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i wanna go ask kang in AC what he thinks about modok

sleek edge
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THE BLUEPRINT

quaint valley
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why are images so big on desktop now

sleek edge
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idk

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when you upload multiple at a time it does a little collage too

restive solstice
acoustic oriole
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is that morbius lmao

faint otter
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Although, maybe they were already done at that point

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It would be kind of funny if the industry starts seeing sudden upticks in VFX quality between Avatar post productions

sleek edge
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but also A3 is in post production rn so thats still taking resources

faint otter
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Yeah I don't see anyone else bothering with Cameron's boundaries. Although if this movie also took 15 years to make the Quantum Realm probably would have looked as striking as Pandora does.

Forgot he's working on like two of these at any given time, so yeah the VFX industry is probably going to be running at 2/3 capacity for the foreseeable feature

mighty cove
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Feel like it’s a gross overestimation that Avatar takes up 1/3rd of the Hollywood level VFX capacity

sleek edge
quaint valley
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i agree except i think it is bad on a technical level

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some of the green screen and lighting are just really bad

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you dont want it to be extremely obvious your characters are standing in a fake place

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I know not every film can be Avatar The Way Of Water but c'mon!

mighty cove
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I personally didn’t see anything that stood out specifically compared to other marvel movies

sleek edge
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oh yeah definitely, imo it was the directing and editing more than the technical level that was more distracitng

mighty cove
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I thought the editing was fine

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Basic but fine

sleek edge
quaint valley
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like take for instance this shot

antman-3-quantum-realm.png
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this shot looks like shit

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everything about it looks like shit

mighty cove
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Meh in the context of what I’m watching it didn’t stand out

sleek edge
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cant tell if the color grading is making it worse or not

mighty cove
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It was all equally shit

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So like in that sense it was fine

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Watching them live in a fuzzy CG universe

sleek edge
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Might be a thing with the Volume too, characters standing close together with a background in the distance

silk ember
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Lmao the email I just got

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faint otter
peak walrus
quaint valley
sleek edge
silk ember
peak walrus
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My friend just asked me this and idk the answer. How come Janet was fine with them in the Quantum Realm in the Ant Man and the Wasp post credits but suddenly not ok with it here

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Im guessing the actual answer is they didnt know what the future plan was when they released ant man 2

golden moat
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I figured it’s because they weren’t sending Scott that deep into the quantum realm, just enough to grab some of that energy, before pulling him back. Some are thinking it had to do with the split into the multiverse that takes place after endgame.

peak walrus
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But its not like Janet was concerned about any sort of multiverse split(would she even be aware of anything going on with that rn)

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She was just concerned about Kang finding a way out.

buoyant bronze
golden moat
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I was talking with my coworker about Modok yesterday and we agreed he has too much chin visible.

silk ember
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Best Poster

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fervent rover
quaint valley
peak quiver
quaint valley
sleek edge
sleek edge
peak walrus
faint otter
# sleek edge

To me, this is why they got Stohl back for this. MODOK is a full on rage bean.

full roost
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Full on rage bean. lol Jessie

faint otter
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Somebody thought it would be a good idea to make a character who was just a face that was angry all the time, and that was basically what Yellowjacket was by the end of the first movie (except he had limbs)

full roost
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True to the comics. pacha The epitome of someone's face being stuck that way. lol

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I'm sad they didn't keep him. Honestly, I'd think cutting and running would be closer to his personality.

sleek edge
full roost
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Oh for sure. Nice twist!

peak walrus
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Why does this actually look better lol

IMG_1673.jpg
quaint valley
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waltuh

golden moat
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More defined facial features

sleek edge
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Facial hair

mighty cove
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Also effort

sleek edge
mighty cove
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Unsurprising

trail marlin
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i was so confused by the buzzfeed guy cameo

sleek edge
sleek edge
quaint valley
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I love these goofy ass thumbnails

peak walrus
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WHATS HE COOKING

sleek edge
peak quiver
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This article is not confident boosting for Kang Dynasty

sleek edge
peak quiver
sleek edge
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Had the rest of the movie been better I think I wouldve liked Kang more

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im just worried if this is the new standard of MCU films

restive solstice
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They’re gonna have a worse meltdown than Star Wars films if they don’t figure their shit out

sleek edge
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fr cause at least with Star Wars if it sucks just put it on ice for a few years and then come back

normal ruin
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honestly I think not having the f4 in it makes sense tbh

restive solstice
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also star wars literally got saved by mando

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but none of the marvel shows have really popped off like that

sleek edge
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yeah none of them have made good use of the tv or limited series format

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I think the decline in quality is as simple as they just pumped out too many projects too soon

restive solstice
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I think it's a couple of things but mainly that

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They had unfortunate timing (COVID messing up production schedule, spider-man reshuffling, chadwick passing, etc etc) and then too many projects to pump out

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And there was so much pressure to get content out on D+

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Just real bad combo of things

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Like wandavision wasn't supposed to be the first TV show to launch

sleek edge
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but they HAVE to get that release date/window

restive solstice
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And they could have simply, not, done that but Disney was like "WE NEED CONTENT!!111"

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but idk i still kinda feel like feige seemed pretty ok with it?

sleek edge
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Also Echo and Iron Heart seem kinda weird makes it seem like theyre in a project just because they have a show coming up

mighty cove
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I think the marvel content has been good mostly

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Sure no mass hits like the mandolorian but also on a whole better than boba fett or like bad batch

sleek edge
normal ruin
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I think echo has potential tbh

sleek edge
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I was more excited for it but im just like PES2_Shrug

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isnt that supposed to be this year?

normal ruin
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I think so

quaint valley
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I’m not excited for echo discourse

restive solstice
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idc about echo tbh

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no interest

quaint valley
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I’ve already seen people be called racist for only caring about it for Daredevil

restive solstice
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cancel me i guess

sleek edge
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cant be worse than She Hulk discourse

quaint valley
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The show can’t be worse than She Hulk in general

sleek edge
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few episodes and moments were good but yeahhhhhh She Hulk was a show alright

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I think Kevin Feige needs to stop hiring Rick and Morty writers

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James Gunn

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but TSS so goood

quaint valley
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I’m sure it’d be racist to reduce a show with a Native American lead to her white costar if Echo wasn’t such an underbaked character with no reason for a spinoff outside of Daredevil ties

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You’re gonna see that talking point a lot when it drops

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I’ve already seen it

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I get twitter isn’t a real place but we are also all nerds and we read discourse about these things

restive solstice
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I just don't find echo interesting but i don't really like daredevil too much either

sleek edge
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the way ive described echo to my friends who dont know is "shes a Daredevil character"

quaint valley
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Like man I don’t care about these fucking side characters

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I don’t want an Agatha spinoff

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That shits gonna be ass

sleek edge
quaint valley
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I’m only watching it for Eric Andre

sleek edge
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wait what

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ok thats the first thing thats made me interested in it

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Agatha: Coven of Chaos (2023?)

quaint valley
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My reaction is documented

IMG_3539.png
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They literally did the only thing possible to get me to watch this show

sleek edge
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ill be fine if they make it like Season 2 of Wandavision since that show cant really do a direct season 2

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fr tho I think they shouldve stuck to making the shows fleshing out the prexisting side characters like Loki, Wanda, Hawkeye, Falcon/Bucky (despite how that show turned out)

dapper mist
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It pretty much is just season 2

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Without Wanda or Vision Jessie

sleek edge
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I think also they need to just let side characters be side characters, not everyone needs a show

quaint valley
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They wrote out the main characters!

sleek edge
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honestly I dont care what shit they put out if they give me moonkight season 2 lol

quaint valley
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You can’t carry a team with the side characters

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Give me Moon Knight season 2 but only if you don’t get any of the same writers or directors

sleek edge
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i think moon knight wouldve benefit from a longer season

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I think it has the most potential of the marvel shows tbh

mighty cove
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Yeah that was too short

quaint valley
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I think Moon Knight would’ve benefited from competent writers

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So many baffling creative choices made

mighty cove
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Idk if I’d call it most potential, loki by far gets that

quaint valley
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If it wasn’t for Isaac and Hawke nobody would care

sleek edge
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Loki if it was just 1 season wouldve been the only MCU show that actually took advantage of the format

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but i dont mind season 2

mighty cove
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Hawke was really good

sleek edge
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true

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but Layla was kinda rushed at the end

mighty cove
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I think ms marvel was a good 1 season show

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Layla was way too rushed

sleek edge
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I really liked Ms. Marvel when it came out but i keep forgetting more and more

restive solstice
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i feel like ms marvel had a lot of potential and is above average on the shows but kinda peetered off at the end

mighty cove
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Mutants

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They did miss the ending

sleek edge
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ms marvel villain ResidentSleeper

mighty cove
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Although the whole school scene was great

sleek edge
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where was the style throughout the show?????

quaint valley
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ms marvel had iman vellani my beloved and a great side cast, it just got less good when there was actual superhero stuff

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they forgot to write that part as good as the rest

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they were like "ah shit we gotta give it a world ending threat"

mighty cove
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Yeah that’s the part I was like ehhh

sleek edge
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damn remember Shang Chi? I think looking back I like how quaint it is compared to the rest of the mcu rn

restive solstice
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it sucks because there are a lot of hype for shang-chi but when we are we gonna see him?

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In five years?

quaint valley
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shang chi carried phsae 4 hard

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EXACTLY

restive solstice
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SNOOZE MEME

quaint valley
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theres no sequel in sight

restive solstice
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i could literally have a toddler by that time, no i'm not having kids

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but i'm just saying

quaint valley
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we are never getting a payoff for THE TEN RINGS WILL RETURN

sleek edge
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and if there wasnt like 10 projects since Shang Chi it still wouldve been fresh

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also not enough love for Werewolf By Night

mighty cove
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Probably the next avengers movie yeah

sleek edge
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Im excited to see Michael Giacchino direct more

quaint valley
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aint nobody watched werewolf by night

normal ruin
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It was peak tho

sleek edge
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theres been 13 mcu projects since Shang Chi desolate

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(im counting I am Groot but still)

restive solstice
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Not like 12 any better really lmao

sleek edge
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I will defend MoM Jessie

peak quiver
sleek edge
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Real

quaint valley
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Yes.

golden moat
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Not sure about them but pretty sure Janet and Krylar did.

faint otter
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Shang-Chi? No plans. Kate Bishop? No plans. Yelena? Burried in Thunderbolts. She-Hulk? No plans.

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Kamala is coming back soon, at least.

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But Agatha Harkness is getting her own miniseries Jessie

restive solstice
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Tbh I like Agatha, she served

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And Agatha was actually popular unlike She-Hulk

zenith dew
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It makes me irrationally upset that most folks will know Jonathan Majors as Kang and not Mont Allen

quaint valley
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Loving the [it’s not]

sleek edge
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💀

limpid goblet
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Kojima is the best part of twitter and movie reviews

sleek edge
zenith dew
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Do you think this has to do with the movie's lack of quality, a general burnout of MCU/super hero movies, or both

acoustic oriole
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what do you think they should’ve done better? i’m curious

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i have a few:

  • kathryn newton
  • quantum realm as a concept is hard to understand because it feels like it changes every movie
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but i can’t really pinpoint what makes the movie so bad as a whole

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maybe the hype train was too hype

mighty cove
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I really liked this movie tbh

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If I had to guess, I think there’s no draw for the regular audience, the only people watching this are people that have watched many of the previous marvel movies

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I thjnk disney+ is also hurting this, many people are just waiting for it to come out there

acoustic oriole
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i wonder if they’ll recast directors for avengers

mighty cove
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Who’s currently doing it?

acoustic oriole
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same director as quantumania

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like i want to know how this is affecting MCU plans internally

mighty cove
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Peyton really hm

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I don’t think the direction had any issue

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Just the reputation

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It’s not an “antman” movie

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And the cgi is bad

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Eh I’d argue “freeing” quantum realm and having access to it is consequence

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Also Kang

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Nothing of consequence happens in wakanda either if that’s the measure of a good movie

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Well this movie didn’t exist when antman 2 came out

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I don’t like to critique storylines from past movies that didn’t match up with a movie that didn’t even get exist when the past movie was originally made

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See Star Wars

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Then you just get boxed into smaller stories to not contradict the previous movies which I don’t like

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Absolutely fair to have a different opinion that’s just mine

zenith dew
mighty cove
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Once the first avenger movie came out

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It’s been setup after setup

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It was executed better for thanos but the main idea is the same

zenith dew
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But that’s the thing — it was cool the first time and they never evolved from that

mighty cove
#

And tbf, the only connection with antman and the larger story is Kang

zenith dew
#

Which is also why that industry almost went kaput

mighty cove
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Everything else is self contained in the antman series

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So that doesn’t really hold true for quantummania

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In fact, the only movie that really has strong plot points outside of its own series since thanos is dr strange

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All the other movies only have light connective tissue

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Shang chi, wakanda forever, black widow, love and thunder, quantum mania

zenith dew
mighty cove
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I mean sure but it’s not calling back to anything that happened outside the antman series

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It’s like saying Ironman 1 is the catalyst for the avengers, yes it is but it’s it’s own movie

zenith dew
mighty cove
zenith dew
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Agree

mighty cove
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I agree that a large reason for the interest in those movies is because of the whole big universe

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However the movies themselves don’t really seem to exist like that

zenith dew
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So that’s where a lot of the “new” grumbles of working within the MCU come from, to an extent.

The filmmakers are being told to construct a narrative around pre-rendered moments, and the quality suffers because of it

mighty cove
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I don’t think this is a new criticism

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It was just better executed earlier

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Which just comes back to, make good movies

zenith dew
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If some of the stories we’ve heard are true, these directors/writers step into rooms where Disney/Fiege is like “hey so this is the big fight we’re already working on, figure out how we got here”

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It doesn’t feel like the first 2 phases were constrained by that production logic

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Fair yea — totally different problem to solve

peak quiver
trail marlin
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Literally all I could think about the whole movie was George Lopez

peak quiver
mighty cove
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This doesn’t make sense to me tbh

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Loki occurs logically before the current phase

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Why would the mcu go back to loki which would be like 5-6 years old at this point

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Loki kills the dude therefore all the stuff starts happening

quaint valley
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My mom’s watching Graham Norton and Douglas is once again not giving a single shit about this movie ppRapLaugh

peak walrus
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Remember the snake episode of Rick and Morty, that

zenith dew
quaint valley
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Yeah my bad

zenith dew
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I’m shocked there were 63 pages of dialog

sleek edge
modern bolt
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Antm✨an and the Wasp:Quantumania

modern bolt
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Antman and the Wasp:Quantumania

quaint valley
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They need to put this shit on Disney+ already I wanna read more takes on it