6.0 was a terrible idea

[sturdy geyser]

I dont think i am the only one who truly hates 6.0. There isnt a transcend it is just a impossible cap increase with 30 new artifacts renames monuments. The tourney algo doesnt exist. People are matching with Nono who has like 3x the stats or anyone else in their tourney. I dont think anyone wants to do an impossible grind for 3-4 months where they get a cosmetic reward and lose out on all of the previous tourney rewards. The whole system needs an overhaul and soon before 75% of the player base quits.

[storm bobcat]

I honestly dont think you get the new update. It's completely different. Comparing Monuments to Artifact is an aberration. You dont prestige anymore and you dont spend relics on artifacts either. Now you transcend and buy monuments with Mementos. COMPLETELY different.

As for the algo, the complaints are unjustified. People have been saying that solo tournaments are stupid and dont come with a challenge. Now you get a real challenge: Gotta get on that sigma grindset and work at least 25hrs a day to try and catchup to our overlord Nono who clearly worked harder than everyone else.

It's also a travesty that you didn't mention one of the biggest addition to the game with patch that clearly makes us, the players, the biggest winners: The daily chan reward chest. A whopping 25 dusts and 5 diamonds. I am so grateful for those rewards.

This patch truly is a piece of art. Probably as good as the Season 1 patch for Diablo that people are talking about right now or as day 1 Cyberpunk. A masterpiece in the gaming world

[hasty field]

a very hyped udpate with a very unhappy result.

[floral ingot]

Thank you for the feedback! I can pass this along to the design team.

Regarding the tournament algorithm, we are working on this with each new tournament, so you should see it further refined in future tournaments 👍 We'll continue to do so until the algorithm is in a good spot overall.

[sturdy geyser]

NoNo is matching with people every tourney who are like over 100k stages below. There is no way the Algo can be that bad.

The community seems to hate everything about 6.0 and I have talked to a lotta previously capped players who dont want to keep playing if this system sticks around forever.

[sturdy geyser]

The reason most people paid $1,000s of dollars for cap was to stop the infinite grind and to get rid of this terrible tourney matchmaking. GH is basically taking that investment away with 6.0 and trying to force people to spend more to stay relevant which no one wants since that investment atm is pointless. Transcend is a good idea. This however isnt a transcend.

As more people hit 180k you will see more of a decline in gameplay. So if GH wants a 7.0 or even like a 6.4 they gotta do something fast to change 6.0

[zinc bobcat]

yep, many people are considering to quit the game(myself included), however they still stick on playing because of their community/clan, and also in the hope that GH fix the tourney algorithm soon.

[sturdy geyser]

Since I am guessing you dont wanna lose all the work done in 6.0 my suggestion is this. Keep the 30 momentos and have them stay what they are. New artifacts for after 180k. Make transcend an actual thing you drop down to lvl 1 and lose everything but 1]gain stats back as you hit certain milestones.
2) gain a transcend power. My idea is for it to be build specific with it growing as you progress. Keep the cap at 1m and have each transcend run add to the power. As you add to the power it can unlock new abilities for your build similar to what we get from abyss. Cs can start with slightly faster companion attack or other powers that alter and enhance the build. Hs can get like an hs auto cast at reduced mana cost and so on. The higher you get into the new transcend stages the more transcend power you get. People will eventually hit 1m but it still an achieveable goal people will want instead of an impossible task that will just aggravate the whole player base. You can make the new cap around 300k or so before transcend since that seems more viable with all momento.

[granite iris]

Maybe an easier (and quicker to achieve) way:

1. give all players in transcendence full (or close to full) tournaments rewards by default, and then give additional!!! (but lower) rewards for the actual placement in their tournaments. Then you don't take away stuff from players that they had before... Stuff that, as was said, many players basically paid for with their money.

2. Since pushing feels awful and is not properly balanced and thought out, at least change the mechanics of how new monuments get unlocked. Make unlocking a monument free, once the player reached a specific threshold of total mementos earned. This way, people are able to put their mementos into progression constantly, even if progression is slow af. At least they don't need to have a bunch of mementos laying around and doing nothing...

[sturdy geyser]

Just make them work like honor tourneys. Lol

[granite iris]

yeah, I guess that would work, too. Would probably be even less effort. 🙂

[sturdy geyser]

I feel like the monuments should do something else. These are just artifacts with a new name. Make them be actual buffs for a specific build that you can put power into. Like statues that let you improve your build with cool new powers. Shadow clone might get the power to send their Sword Master to a distant land to train under a Hokage learning how to summon more clones. And so on. Things that make the gameplay change and more dynamic.

[hearty radish]

why are we not getting any skill points after trancedence, i pass my MS for 2k an zero skill points

[sturdy geyser]

Because they change it and stated it stops after 180k. You get them from reaching milestones instead

[granite iris]

maybe. I'm more focused on a quick solution.

but I doubt that they'll actually do anything much

[hearty radish]

well then i want to opt out of transcedence. thats stupid design. this game was all about skill points

[granite iris]

yeah, and don't forget that those big milestones with SP and raid XP are only collectable once 🙂

so next transcendence season will get even worse

enjoy the design!

[hearty radish]

make tt2 great again. bring 5.xx back

[sturdy geyser]

They wont fix anything and the game will die. And will go outta business cause none of their other games lasted

[granite iris]

🤞

[hearty radish]

imo now its all about clan raids, playing and pushin is wothless

[sturdy geyser]

@floral ingot seems like a lotta people are coming to agree with this post. The Dev team should probably look into it before they lose some player base.

[granite iris]

do yourself a favor and do not get your hopes up any significant amount

[sturdy geyser]

I have been playing tt2 for years. My hopes no longer exist

[granite iris]

that's the spirit!

[sturdy geyser]

1871 days since install. Might finally be time for uninstall.

[torn raven]

Making Transcendence similar to how it works in Clicker Heroes is indeed something I’d like to see, as the current system doesn’t add much to the game.

[granite iris]

no idea how clicker hero does things, but if it correlates with my suggestion, then it's probably an amazing game

[sturdy geyser]

That is what I was thinking too.

[supple marsh]

Lol. That game was last updated 3 years ago,though…

[granite iris]

don't think that that has anything to do with anything

some of the mechanics might still be better or make more sense than what TT2 does

and others may not be

[supple marsh]

Mmm maybe….

[granite iris]

and I'm not sure how things work in clicker heroes, but I assume they mean the mechanics of unlocking new artifacts ((or similar things)

[sturdy geyser]

https://clickerheroes.fandom.com/wiki/Transcendence

[granite iris]

too much to read. Too late for me in the evening.

I need a TL;DR;

(actually, don't really bother, though)

[sturdy geyser]

The picture is the tldr. Lol

[granite iris]

yeah, but I can't actually place all the terms 🤷‍♂️

you keep stuff and you gain stuff

and everything else will be lost

doesn't really matter, though

[sturdy geyser]

Keep diamonds. Keep all bought sp shards and weapons. Lose everything else.

[analog cobalt]

I don't understand why matchmaking is so tough to get even close to right in this game. There aren't many intangible things in this game, everything is quantifiable. Having all equipment sets and 80 crafting power means you have this much power from equipment sets. Having 7000 hero weapons and 170 completed sets, means you have this much power. Sure it would be a bit of complicated math, but it should be easily achievable with some tweaks. But in 6.0 we all get shoved into 10 man brackets in the higher stages and there seems to be minimal regard for anything.

[sturdy geyser]

Because GH cant do math.

1+1= [2-30]

[analog cobalt]

Yeah, I mean I understand to have some tournaments sometimes players that are on the stronger end of a bracket and someone on the weaker end of the bracket may not be fair for one another. But still, there are so many examples of horrible tournaments here recently.

I also agree about how bad it feels to grind for monuments, because there is almost no point in pushing at some point.

[sturdy geyser]

I mean every Nono tourney

They have like 3x the stats of the avg whale. There isnt any world where an algo would match them

[analog cobalt]

Yeah NoNo is the extreme example, but even some of the others, where there are 25k gaps between players that isn't really farmable or in the realm of potential

[sturdy geyser]

Lemme get my last tourney

[analog cobalt]

My last tournament, I got second and probably could have gotten first if I felt motivated to grind out 80+ prestiges to unlock the next monument

But after me and the guy that got first, there was a big gap and the other 8 people were not on our level

Our bracket could have been easily split up into 3 or 4

[sturdy geyser]

I didnt try.

[granite iris]

I'd have needed to do like 200 prestiges

in 24h

good thing I never eat, sleep or work

[analog cobalt]

Yeah, I am not quite there. I think that is my next monument

I needed 80 for mine haha

With SM, I am down into the 60s I think

[sturdy geyser]

60k between first and 20th

[analog cobalt]

Yeah that is rough, that is worse than mine

[sturdy geyser]

I have0 interest in trying because after every monument you hit a wall.

[analog cobalt]

But even the 30k or so in mine was bad

[granite iris]

it's just not really understandable that preventing these massively unfair matchups can be this difficult

even if you can't math

it's also not really tolerable, imo

[sturdy geyser]

I mean based on this post and reddit, the community as a whole hates 6.0. Also Nono might even be at a wall since they arent really pushing anymore.

[analog cobalt]

NoNo also doesn't have to push really

They can just chill because they are 40k above 2nd place

[sturdy geyser]

Yup

[analog cobalt]

As others creep up, NoNo can play more

[sturdy geyser]

I swear they gotta be like a prince from Dubai or something lol.

[clear turtle]

Transcendence itself has good potential. It needs a working algorithm (if that means you're solo then so be it) and then a supplementary system like pets that you can up via dailies and Pet quests for a daily dose of power to reduce monument gap and never wall.

There you go

[sturdy geyser]

Except this isnt actual transcdndence. It is just a cap raise with 30 new artifacts called monuments.

[clear turtle]

Which is perfectly fine

I have no problems with how it works at all, we just need a secondary power adder like I mentioned and an actual working tournament algorithm.

[analog cobalt]

I think memento scaling needs to be adjusted, so that pushing has a purpose. I can't prestige a few times, gain a bunch of stages say 100 stages, and then barely get any memento increase for my efforts.

Or have titan HP and/or strength of upgrading some of these monuments upgraded to make mementos mean more

Either way, pushing is punished right now

[clear turtle]

It's bad because we depend in mementos only to push

I'd also look at the Titan HP scaling itself so the upgrades mean more.

But before that I'd bring in Transcendence Pets for S2 and go from there.

[granite iris]

letting them add more stuff for more chances to mess up is a good idea

[clear turtle]

Gotta have faith in em releasing pets and them being good or otherwise enjoy 4 sucky months

Mementos alone is not enough

[sturdy geyser]

Oh you still have faith. We found the problem.

[clear turtle]

We need another daily power adder and that's where new pets would come in handy

[clear turtle]

I do because the issues are very easy to fix

It's not like the game requires a year to fix the two problems that Transcendence currently has

[granite iris]

https://tenor.com/view/leslie-knope-parks-and-rec-oh-ann-you-beautiful-naive-sophisticated-newborn-baby-gif-11620049

[analog cobalt]

Being that the game is 7 years old and tournament matchmaking is still what it is, I think some of these problems are kinda what they are.

[sturdy geyser]

They literally release features that break your game. Tell you that in order to fix it you gotta salvage the broken monument and add in that there will be 0 compensation. What makes you think they can solve easy problems quickly?

[analog cobalt]

They added some stuff to the currently existing algorithm, which already wasn't good.

And somehow made it worse

[clear turtle]

They did solve some of the problems very quickly, just without compensation (which I didn't like)

[analog cobalt]

Maybe in 2030, give them 7 more years.

[sturdy geyser]

Will there even be a tt2 in 2024 if they dont fix this?

[clear turtle]

Yes, nobody will quit

Although I do think it'll get fixed, at least the algorithm.

[granite iris]

you can't fix things that don't exist

[clear turtle]

Then for transcendence itself we'll have to endure S1 and then hopefully something like Pets will be added in S2

[sturdy geyser]

I wouldnt bet on that.people at cap got used to a certain playstyle. That has been taken away and they are forced to grind it out in a terrible system that they whaled to avoid. I can see a lotta whales quitting.

[granite iris]

yeah. People are already busy enough with raiding and (if they care for it) ATs

not like there's nothing to do

[sturdy geyser]

Cap was literally an investment. Pay x $1000s get free SM runs and tourneys.

[clear turtle]

They won't quit because they're used to raiding

[sturdy geyser]

I mean i know a lotta people who are ready to give up on that too. Find a game that actually listens to the player base.

[clear turtle]

As for cap itself I'm glad it's gone so I can keep pushing forward. I never cared about raiding that much and always preferred main game pushing. However, I wanted this with the OLD algorithm.

[analog cobalt]

I mean, people have quit before. And there seems to be a lot of people that aren't happy now. I think if some of the bigger people in their clan quit, maybe that would make others in their clan quit. Sometimes it takes one person to create a domino effect of sorts.

[sturdy geyser]

The old algo wasnt much better. There were still huge gaps.

[clear turtle]

Yes but it was better than what we have now.

Old algorithm you wouldn't get NoNo in your bracket

[clear turtle]

Let's see if it actually happens. So far, I haven't seen anyone quitting on top clans because of this, even though there is reason to indeed quit assuming this new algorithm or lack thereof stays untouched.

98% don't have the guts to actually do it because of time and investment sunk into it

[analog cobalt]

No, but I think some of them are still waiting out on hope, not instantly quitting in a week

[clear turtle]

Which is valid

[analog cobalt]

The sunk cost fallacy is strong

[granite iris]

some people decide to quit, but then stay in their clans for a bit longer until they have proper replacement

loyalty and stuff

[clear turtle]

What GH needs to do is come out and communicate with the playerbase and say whether the algorithm or lack thereof is working as intended, to see if it'll get fixed, stay as is or what

[clear turtle]

This is also valid it's how I would do it

[granite iris]

what they need to do is compensate players for wasting their time

there's no reason for me to lose out on rewards due to GH messing up

[clear turtle]

Yeah compensate players for the horrible algorithm if it's not working as intended, then fix it or just make people post 180k gain first place resources

[granite iris]

shouldn't even be a discussion on whether they should do that or not

[clear turtle]

Also I haven't seen enough complaints about this which is a bit upsetting, launching a tournament event when a new algorithm is tested is criminal.

So many will be screwed out of 10% badges

[granite iris]

see if they care

[rigid moat]

all i keep thinking is... people are complaining now.... but wait 100 days when they have to do it all over again! and get matched with the same whales again each new tournament next season!

you're saying pushing in between monuments is a bad idea. I'm saying pushing between trancendences is.🙄

[sturdy geyser]

Got it pushing is a bad idea. No more pushing

[sturdy geyser]

They dont compensate and have made it clear that they dont intend to for the bugged sprout monument i doubt they will for this.

[torn raven]

How does this sound:
https://www.reddit.com/r/TapTitans2/comments/1555syb/new_transcendence_idea/ ?

[sturdy geyser]

All those new monuments suggested are bad and shouldnt exist besides the BoS one.

[torn raven]

They're meant to be super long-term investments. Do you think those types of bonuses are inherently inferior, or are the way they scale faulty?

[sturdy geyser]

I think that they are a resource that has always been behind a paywall and making them too easy to get will never happen.

[torn raven]

You’re probably right, and I had that in mind by making the maximum bonuses x2 for each of them. I also specified in the post that the game should still be balanced so that stats are still necessary for long-term progression (in that existing aspects of the game should be nerfed if the other changes would make this not the case) and detailed everything in a way that would ensure they’re not farmable.

[clear turtle]

Devs don't want BoS, and BoS is absolutely unnecessary.

All it needs is better pacing that's all

[sturdy geyser]

Im just commenting on his reddit post.

[clear turtle]

For the reddit post idea, it'll be very hard to balance it I think.

And I'd be pissed if my 7k SP/weapons disappeared outta nowhere

[sturdy geyser]

The idea is they would disappear but reappear as you progressed back up.

Like hit x milestone and gain back 5% of bought stats and have all back at 180k.

[clear turtle]

GH is accomplishing almost the same with monuments

Get 15 ish or whatever we'll get, then reset

It's just easier to add a supporting system to what we got (pets add daily power when monuments can't) and boom you fixed pacing

[sturdy geyser]

I think the pacing is planned. They dont want people racing to 30 monuments. They want this slow dredge from one to next

Gotta pace out 100+ days.

[clear turtle]

You're right, but even if people get e20 daily from pets that'll be 10k stages worth or so over the course of 100 days, it's not going to make people collect all monuments unless they're mega whales.

[sturdy geyser]

Except s2 they will start with that added power.

[clear turtle]

We don't know that yet.

In my proposed idea though, transcendence pets are reset on S3

[sturdy geyser]

I mean I am assuming that is why relics are capped at 180k.

[clear turtle]

Reason why is that Monuments replace relics.

Memes/monuments are the new relics/artifacts combo

[sturdy geyser]

Na. Reason is they dont want people to insta jump back to end of season ms. If relics scaled with ms you could jump to like 300k+ without needing any momentos.

[clear turtle]

Then you'll get 400k with mementos though, it's the same as the current thing just with a lower number

[sturdy geyser]

Except you will most likely be able to buy all monuments right away and hit a wall day 1 with scaled relics. This way you st least gotta play a little each monument before you wall.

[clear turtle]

Assuming relics scale past 180k, they'll just make monuments harder to get to compensate. I don't think they'll allow the average transcendence player to get all monuments right away, and they shouldn't.

[floral ingot]

Thanks for all the additional suggestions and feedback! I can pass these along to the design team.

[olive anchor]

Hey guys, i dint read all of the thread, is to big xD
im just trying to think a little bit out ot the pot.
I complete agree about the matchmaking, i cant complain about the rest, dint reach there.
But it will be complete fine about be finishing in last place, if they improve the rewards to be +/- like it was before.

before i was getting like 5 persons each tournament, so my rewards was up there betwen this 5 positions,
so if now i canot get more than 10 place, because the matchmaking is trowing people with 20k more stages than me, if i get the rewards i was getting before, i will stop to complain about it, and just get used, because in the end im not loosing anything.
the first person will keep getting the same, just the partition after the first places will be a little more equal betwen the now 20 person turnament we will start to get now on.

is a win win to all players(low and high stages), and a easy fix for the matchmaking actual problem.

[wise prawn]

[sturdy geyser]

https://tenor.com/view/suggestions-discord-paper-shredder-printer-gif-21816765

I can pass these along to the design team

[zinc bobcat]

Well at least lemming actually pass it to the design team(the paper shredder) 😆😆

[sturdy geyser]

Ya. Like other design teams actually listen to player feedback. I play games like Marvel Snap and the amount of interaction between design team and fans is amazing. They listen a hell of a lot and when they mess up the compensation is always fast and actually worthwhile not like 50 diamonds that dont do anything anyways

[granite iris]

as it would be a decent thing to do, if you mess up something. 🤷‍♂️

[sturdy geyser]

Yup totally.

There was a bugged card that was released called kitty pryde. It didnt work properly. They removed the card and apologized cause it was breaking the game. Anyone who bought it got back their in game currency and when the issue was fixed they gave all current players the card for free.

[sturdy geyser]

Or another example. They introduced a weekend event. The first weekend it didnt work. So they gave everyone the rewards as though they did the event and fixed it for the next week.

Or even this.
https://www.dexerto.com/gaming/blizzard-admits-mistakes-with-diablo-4-season-1-patch-vows-never-again-2221484/

[granite iris]

unlocking a single monument (1st push after unlock in ss) vs. trying to push by upgrading monuments (e1 damage increase and basically zero progression from that)

this system is so not balanced...

e1 vs. +e308 damage instantly!

and the gains from upgrading your monuments even get progressively worse with each prestige, so it's not like it would take "only" 308 prestiges to get to the same power level.

[lapis burrow]

system gotta keep your busy for 4 months, so :b
system gotta keep NoNo busy too

[granite iris]

yeah, but my point is that it's really not worth to try to push by upgrading your monuments

it takes/took me about 160 prestiges (not even full prestiges, but SM prestiges) to unlock the next monument

[lapis burrow]

wouldn't you hit your hardwall too quickly, if upgrading monuments would help pushing?

[granite iris]

everything that I put into upgrading owned monuments is basically wasted

well, the point in upgrading monuments is supposed to be that it makes you a bit stronger and allows you to push a bit further with each upgrade

but since the design is so bad, doing this is not at all worth it, and it even tends to be worse for you

you get so little increase in terms of mementos from upgrading your monuments that it's not worth to upgrade them, but rather to save them for unlocking the next one

[lapis burrow]

yeah, possibly design is bad
just unsure if 4 months of 'fun' would be possible, if it'd work as you imagine
with relics i think upgrading is helpful mainly due to BoS

[granite iris]

yeah, I'm saying the system does not work in transcendence, and one reason for that is that there is no equivalent for BoS

so you do not have the choice to upgrade your memento gain by putting it into something like BoS

so your only choice is to have the mementos sitting on the shelf, waiting for the next unlock

it feels awful

[lapis burrow]

BoS would obviously kill the 'fun' prolongation, you'd hit the hardwall in a day
take 20-100k push for example

[granite iris]

a reasonable fix is to get rid of the current unlocking system and allow players to unlock a new monument once they earned a specific total amount of mementos

then you can use your mementos to upgrade stuff freely

even if it pushes you only 1 stage at a time

system would feel a million times better

[lapis burrow]

this sounds like possible solution
though adding no much fun anyway, innit?
as you say Mon upgrades give 🤏🏿

[granite iris]

yeah, but my main issue is that the mementos I farm are just siiting there without any use

you get zero progression for hundreds of prestiges

and then you get thousands of stages in a burst

I don't mind the slow progression, but I mind zero progression with a huge chunk of resources sitting on a shelf

[lapis burrow]

may be it's manageable to bend Mon effect curve, so that gain is not 'frontloaded' as immediate push to softwall, but rather distributed evenly
so you can push some moderate amount after unlocking and can push noticeably by upgrading too

[granite iris]

yeah, maybe

[sturdy geyser]

The issue is also for tourneys. I started abour 7k ahead of the one other person in mine. I am guessing i was 2+ monuments on him. Even if ge pushed to cap for 24hrs i am 100% sure he couldnt get the 2 monuments he needed. I bet GH is gonna pull a "for the next patch we have a mythic that gives 2x monuments' so you only need 150 runs instead of 300

Like tourneys are currently pointless. You might start at around the same stage but monuments are the only way to push and even if you played 24hrs straight some of the gaps between monuments are gonna take longer. You gotta horde till right before tourney grab a fresh monument and hope you had a lead going in cause otherwise there is 0 chance of progressing or catching up

[granite iris]

with the system as it is, it's basically nonsense to put many people in the same bracket

[sturdy geyser]

Tourneys are pointless either way. If it takes 2 days to unlock a monument and you only gain power from monuments you have no real ways to progress in tourneys

[sturdy geyser]

Game barely playable and now unexpected downtime. Figures

[visual bough]

This has been my critique of what's happening as well. In my opinion, having a competition for rewards in a system like this is fundamentally flawed. You can't farm to progress and pass someone even 100 stages above you, if you're walled until the next monument.

And at that point, why are we allowing an algorithm to essentially randomly distribute better or worse rewards to players?

Even if the algorithm was flawless, if you can't move you can't move.

Some of us in beta were advocating for equal rewards, but I also like the suggestion here of mostly equal but then a little more based on placement. In any case, what we have now just isn't going to work well.

[sturdy geyser]

Didnt you guys in beta think that only being able to push whenyou geta new monument could be bad?

[visual bough]

Yes lol

[visual bough]

Ive talked to a few people how who thinks it falls on the testers, but ultimately things are GH's decision

I don't want to say they don't listen to our input, but they certainly don't listen to us as much as you'd think

[sturdy geyser]

I mean they dont seem to listen at all. At least with how bad abd buggy 6.0 is. Actually i feel like just about every patch is buggy.

[visual bough]

I'm pretty sure also nobody in beta was a fan of the "per prestige" monuments, lol

Some things just get decided on and that's that I guess

[sturdy geyser]

I bet i can think of 1 person who was.

[visual bough]

Who? Lol

[clear turtle]

This is not even a problem IF there is a secondary power source besides monuments. You bring a secondary power source to transcendence hopefully in S2, then it's a non issue.

Ideally you have monuments as the "OMG WOOOO 5K STAGES BOOST!!!" Kinda thing, and then Pets or another smaller but daily farmable source of power to give you daily boosts consistently. That's how I would do it.

I'll add, Due to beta actually being a very very VERY small part of the player spectrum, and beta testers NOT having months to test things, it is normal for big updates to come out with kinks. Have you played literally any game at release lately? Well if not here's some news: The playerbase is the actual beta testers now. Things release bugged or unpolished to everyone, then they share feedback to the devs on how things are, then they improve on it.

It sucks, but that's 2023 gaming.

[hardy raven]

A couple of players have already took it as a chance to leave

[granite iris]

they won't really listen to feedback, or/and the time that players are put into contact with their beta build is much too late to really change much.

I had that experience with GR back in the days, and then I realized that players in beta are basically just unpaid bug hunters

and then I didn't really feel like our opinions on the game really mattered much, at all, because they'd just push out broken and unfinished things, anyway. Even with being heavily pointed to things being flawed.

[granite iris]

this is not an excuse

not even a justification

if you see games published that way, don't fucking buy them!

the issue is not that companies do that shit, but that the players are stupid enough to just accept it

[clear turtle]

A couple out of hundreds of thousands?

[hardy raven]

Out of a couple of thousand of players that are in transcendence, as a direct result of the update. Its an uptick as a direct correlation to a release

[clear turtle]

And to Myself, yeah I'm not justifying how gaming is today at all, just telling y'all how it is nowadays. Unless players change and actually quit the games or stop whaling FOR REAL, it won't change at all.

Look at NoNo, tens of thousands of dollars spent this update. It's sickening.

As for GH not listening to feedback, most of what's added now is community ideas or feedback. Just late

[granite iris]

"this is crap. Don't release it!" is also feedback.

[hardy raven]

Generally, when looking at financials, you don't look at your outliers for the data, you look at the general populace and the trend. Every game has massive whales, but you don't devote your analytics to either end of the spectrum, you strictly focus on the mass majority

[clear turtle]

Did you share that feedback

[granite iris]

with GR I did. multiple times

but I am not in beta anymore

so can't really give feedback on that that gh can then ignore

saves the middle man

[clear turtle]

GR I would just like different final bosses, it doesn't really need much more than a different boss each implementation, then use that to release bundles with charity affiliations in the middle of the GR phases instead of after it's over.

[visual bough]

I remember that GR beta lol

[visual bough]

IMO global raids would be fine with more rewards too. It's just underwhelming rewards in all 3 phases

[clear turtle]

Replace shards with wildcards and it's fixed

Maybe make all rewards raid exclusive in GR

[granite iris]

replace GR with another event and it's fixed

[clear turtle]

No

[visual bough]

Yeah, throwing a bunch of wildcards in there would work

[clear turtle]

Yeah

[granite iris]

this thread isn't about GR, though. Just shows the general trend of how things work with GH.

[visual bough]

I still want to see some Raid xp per attack or something but its never going to happen

Right, should probably stop that talk here

[granite iris]

push unfinished stuff, don't really react to player feedback, and then it's sitting there for years, unfinished and useless

just like my mementos from farming

[clear turtle]

Transcendence itself I've already proposed the fix. Let's see if S2 brings that or something similar.

[granite iris]

let's see if S1 was already playable

I checked

and no

[clear turtle]

It is, I've been playing it

[granite iris]

well, you know exactly what I mean

[clear turtle]

Is it in a great state? Not now. Is it playable? Yeah I can go in and play.

[granite iris]

I can also play by sticking my hand in a blender

[clear turtle]

It's not as bad as you think it is, in fact it is in a good state if you're a camper.

I'd say the more active you are, the worse it is.

[granite iris]

gh promised to fix campers

[visual bough]

I can't say I'm mad about the current state, I'm more upset that 6.1 isn't immediately addressing the progression issues.

[clear turtle]

They kinda did, now you can camp, but at softwall.

[visual bough]

Like AT stuff now?

[clear turtle]

It's too soon, and I really don't think something big is happening until season ends.

You'll be looking at 6.4 for pacing improvements based on the length of the season

[visual bough]

For something major, yeah. But they could do something

[clear turtle]

Mid season I don't think so.

[visual bough]

For me not addressing the progression at all and also not addressing CP is just a bummer

[clear turtle]

I think it'll be AT stuff 6.1, then 6.2 hopefully it is CP buffs to get more people into Transcendence

[granite iris]

only like 200 prestiges to go

probably more, idk

[visual bough]

If they don't touch CP by 6.2 I'm not gonna keep my hopes up. That's when I was expecting it as well

[granite iris]

SM prestiges

[visual bough]

I'm also only doing SM prestiges at this point

[granite iris]

anything else is stupid

[visual bough]

Grinding actively just to be at a hault is crazy

[clear turtle]

I'll say though the day they buff CP you'll be unaffected if it still gives relics @visual bough

[granite iris]

so shards are useless now

[clear turtle]

I believe that CP will just be a gateway to get people into Transcendence sooner, NOT for whoever is in it already.

[visual bough]

I literally just want to see legendary set scaling go brrr

[clear turtle]

I think it will, but for sub transcendence

I don't see how CP will affect people who are already in transcendence when relics are useless for those people, unless they raise relic caps which I think is not going to happen.

[granite iris]

did I already mention that GH's game design sucks?

[visual bough]

Just depends on how they approach it.

[clear turtle]

Yet we all still play it

[visual bough]

Cause we can't leave. I tried

[granite iris]

yeah, only due to the social part of clans and all that

[clear turtle]

If it was me, I'm thinking a bit more of everything it gives now is what I would expect.

[granite iris]

convert relics in transcendence to something useful

[visual bough]

There's a lot of options, honestly

[granite iris]

pets

[visual bough]

It just needs to not be in the abysmal state it's currently in

[granite iris]

convert relics to pets 1:1

[clear turtle]

So 1 relic = 1 pet then we'll have 1234758473747557 pets or something like that? Lol

[granite iris]

yeah, would not change much, probably

[clear turtle]

It would

Salvage pet level monument and get something else then try to get to MS

[granite iris]

nice

game fixed

[clear turtle]

Relic number is simply too high now to convert it to anything else in the game in a 1:1 or even 1:100 scale.

So their job from now on is to get people into Transcendence. Which they should do in 3-4 months ideally.

That's what I think CP buffs, if they ever come, will be for.

[visual bough]

The fact that it's even an "if" pains me

[clear turtle]

Just my opinion though, trying to not disappoint Undefeatable if that's what we'll actually get

I think it's what makes the most sense CP wise, give some extra damage but more importantly buff relics just to get people into Transcendence sooner.

Favorite option would be to mega buff damage and scaling, but I don't know if they'll want us to break Shimmering Blacksmith or something

[visual bough]

Yeah. I think the moment CP gets buffed at all, Shimmering would get nerfed same patch

[sullen bane]

One scaling multiplier could fix it all. But the resetting of it is demotivating. And seems zero point to buy anything anymore as a TC has no impact at all.

[wise prawn]

algo doesn't consider tryharders with overpushing at all, i'm the proof

[sturdy geyser]

Gh" people say whales are mad that they are at cap and cant progress. Lets give em an impossible 1m cap"
Gh introduces the monument system so whales are just stuck at a different wall every 200 prestiges

Also the issue of a daily power boost is it wont do anything lets say they add your transcend pets. You get em. They add 250 stages of power. You are walled again until the next day when you get those pets again. So maybe itll take 150 runs between instead of 200 but still.

[visual bough]

Exactly. I almost feel as stuck as I was at 180k. Sure I'm moving now, but in such quick bursts that it just feels the same

And that is a huge bunmer

6.0 lost the sense of progression, even if the numbers are still going up

And that's important

[lapis burrow]

not exactly
what may be clearly stated now is super wide brackets
you need way more data points to statistically confirm, that tryharding is discriminated, considering that rng layer

[sturdy geyser]

The issue is they hyped up 6.0 as something new and gave us the same stuff in different packaging.

[visual bough]

To be honest I disagree, as that would have been better

This is the worst version of that "package" that's ever existed

Pre 180k always felt like I could progress, and Tournaments were never this RNG based as a result

[sturdy geyser]

I mean tourneys before you could sorta tryhard and win. But now if you are matched and your stats are close but they got a lead of say 5k cause of 2 extra monuments you are SoL. You dont have enough time to tryhard to 2 extra monuments. Shit you probably cant even tryhard to 1 extra monument in a day after you have 13+ or so unlocked.

[visual bough]

Yeah. It takes well over a day for all but the first few

I want to clarify I genuinely love all the ideas presented in 6.0. Just executed in the wrong way

[clear turtle]

Before 180 tournaments were a gamble as well. Just like now but slightly tighter.

[visual bough]

It just doesn't make sense to me to have this quick burst progression system in tournaments

[clear turtle]

This will do a lot, 250 stages a day is more than I got in a month before 6.0 lol

[clear turtle]

Before 6.0, we had no progression whatsoever if you were hardwalled. The big difference here is that tournaments were tight enough where solos abounded so the problem was mitigated.

But at least on my experience, I only progressed on patch days for a bit then be stuck for hundreds of prestiges.

Maybe the solution is to tighten up the algorithm? (Maybe it has been, let's see tonight)

[visual bough]

Even if you were hardwalled pre 180k though, no one above you in the tournament was ever going to shoot up multiple thousand stages.

I'm not even salty as I've actually won 2 of my tournaments this update, but when I did, the people I beat had no chance

I didn't win because I grinded, I won because rng said those guys lose.

But to address your point lol, yeah tighter algo will definitely help, but as more of a band aid than anything

When we need the full on cure 😆

[clear turtle]

Yeah we definitely need the cure, I do think it'll be a season 2 thing though. And also while it might fix it, I do think the new monument system will always scale high enough for the average player to not get all within a season. A secondary power adder will help but I'm thinking the new no BoS high initial pushing will be here to stay, and we'll just need to adapt to this and use it as a tournament strategy to only pull out monuments there.

[visual bough]

I am hopeful season 2 will be better like you said. As long as they are taking the feedback seriously and not just brushing it off, I think things will work out

It's unfortunate it turned out this way though. We couldn't really have predicted this from limited beta testing

I only saw it right in the last week when of course it was too late

[clear turtle]

To me what it's unfortunate was how long the season is

[visual bough]

That too lol

[clear turtle]

If this was 2 months it would be fine

[visual bough]

I don't think I even fathom how slow 100 more days is gonna feel here

[clear turtle]

But almost four months for something that is not proper yet sustainability wise is too long.

[clear turtle]

Ehhh it's just the walled Anny life I'm used to it

[lapis burrow]

i think we are missing important part, slow progression in softwall pre 180k is real MS progression
while pushing hard in transcendence is temporal :p

[visual bough]

Lemming did say they could end it sooner than the initial timer, I really hope they decide to do that

I don't mind it being temporary because it's not like our main game stats are going anywhere

[clear turtle]

It's Diablo inspired

[visual bough]

And next season we'll just get even more monuments as a result

[clear turtle]

I hope this is the case. GH needs it to be 50 monuments instead of 30 to smoothen out pacing a bit. If NoNo gets to a million who cares

Part of the problem is that we have too little monuments to start, so the pacing from one to the next is too wide.

[lapis burrow]

if this is the only change, you'll just reveal a bit more pictures in the process, while having the same number of prestiges to be busy for 4 months

[strange bone]

Who is nono? 😅

[slim vessel]

Biggest whale in the game

Nr. 1 on the transcendence leaderboard right now (and forever)

[sturdy geyser]

My guess is a saudi prince or bored oil or tech billionaire.

[slim vessel]

She’s from Hong Kong

So Close one

[sullen bane]

Softwalls pre180, at least you could buy stuff to speed up clearing them. Now TCs are useles.

[sturdy geyser]

My theory is they do a transcend mythic. Maybe it'll do a small monument power increase and like 2x momentos. It is probably the easiest "fix" since itll cut the prestiges between monuments in half and maybe make it feel like you get more power when investing in to keep people on the hook a little longer.

[clear turtle]

Definitely would love that

[lapis burrow]

this will do 0 effect
you'll get same wall of hundreds of prestiges for next monument after the same amount of total prestiges
just at higher MS

[sturdy geyser]

Youll have to do half as many prestiges. Thatll do a lot.

[lapis burrow]

for certain MS yes
and same for everyone
but since you are greedy, you'll prestige as much as you can care
so what's improved after all?

i'd say this is not improvement even, but rather regression, since MS spread will be increased = even less competitive tournaments

[sturdy geyser]

Nothing its why i put quotes around the fix and implied it'll be a trick to keep people on the hook longer

[lapis burrow]

it wont keep longer
same total amount of prestiges will lead to the same N prestiges monument discovery requirement

[sturdy geyser]

Except it wouldnt be same same total. It would probably be 55-60% less overall.

[lapis burrow]

i think you are wrong in this statement

[sturdy geyser]

2x the momentos would be 50%less prestiges.

Thats just simple math. Every run becomes 2

Addin a monument boost for pushin cuts it down a bit more

[lapis burrow]

for certain MS yes

[sturdy geyser]

No

If you get 85m per run and next is 8.5b its 100 runs. If that 85 suddenly jumps to 170m its 50 runs.

[lapis burrow]

...which means you'll get to certain MS 2x quicker

[sturdy geyser]

Right and every monumrnt 2x quicker

[lapis burrow]

aaaand how this helps general issue?

[sturdy geyser]

It cuts the time between monuments by a minimum of 50% and makes the illusion of progression look more real.

[lapis burrow]

just at start

[sturdy geyser]

The same way mythics did with relics

[lapis burrow]

welp, they just move s/w MS
and aren't directly comparable, bc BoS

[sturdy geyser]

Originally mythics had a flat multiplier

It wasnt % but started at like 2x

[clear turtle]

Andulvar is up to something though I really think it could work

[sturdy geyser]

I dont know your ms but transcend gameplay is currently. Unlock new monument. Dump 2-3 ms runs into each monument. Do 100+ wall runs.

Rinse and repeat

[clear turtle]

That's my gameplay at 220k

[sturdy geyser]

I meant friendly

[clear turtle]

Next would be 400 runs

Cut it in half and that would mean we could further shrink it with upgrades to make it doable

[sturdy geyser]

And as a mythic it would help with each upcoming season.

The momento gain woukd stay a flat 2x. The monument boost could be impacted by cp making it also more useful.

And since it is adding just one new set it should be fairly easy to implement since we get 1 set each patch anyways

[clear turtle]

Agreed

[sturdy geyser]

Lemming is busy. I will save him some time

[visual bough]

Lmao

I don't know if we'll really see something like that, though. GH has been known to leave issues the same until completely addressed

Just 2 of many examples that I can point to as of recent are Splash rework and AT changes.

They knew both AT and Splash were in need of serious help for ages, and there were never any quick changes which would have been simple to do (especially for AT)

They tend to do things all at once

And realizing that makes me believe even more Anny is probably mostly right about major changes not coming until around s2 start

Because looking back that really is their track record. They don't often do smaller changes, they wait for the big overhaul. But I'd love to be wrong and pleasantly surprised, of course.

[analog cobalt]

There is another problem with monuments that a mythic wouldn't solve, in that only like 75% of them are actually useful. So even with increasing memento gains somehow, players may end up walled sooner rather than later. I own 8, I can unlock the 9th, and while I imagine even with a 2x multiplier it would take me some time I may be able to run through another 15 or so in a month or two. Leaving me super stuck, but I can get a mana boost monument.

[sturdy geyser]

Except you are walled basically 5 runs after you get your next monument. You cant really speed that up much more

[clear turtle]

I'm thinking it'll be very similar to how they're doing Master tiers. So I'm thinking that we'll have to wait till the season is over however I do expect season 2 to be much more fleshed out.

[granite iris]

I would have expected season 1 to be much more fleshed out

that's where our expectations diverge

[sturdy geyser]

Why?

What about tt2s 6 year history made you think that

[granite iris]

well, I didn't really expect it, but you really should be able to expect things to be of decent quality

[sturdy geyser]

You know what happens when you assume.

[sturdy geyser]

Again. Why. Lol

[granite iris]

not in tt2, but like in general

[sturdy geyser]

Games have taught me to expect disappointment for new content. It almost never goes as planned.

[granite iris]

yeah, and that's sad

[sturdy geyser]

C'est la vie.

[granite iris]

https://tenor.com/view/jpcoffe-jeanpierrecoffe-coffe-jean-pierre-gif-14505404

[sturdy geyser]

Lol

[sturdy geyser]

I am really curious if NoNo is not pushing or walled.

[rigid moat]

what i'm also sensing is... we all transcend. we all wait for 100 SM prestiges. buy the next Monument. and repeat. but I'll never be able to catch up to someone else who was already ahead of me. if they were capped at 180 before me. and stored up power with their dumb free solo tournaments, then they get slingshotted slightly further into transcendence, getting one extra Monument than me at the start. i never catch up. still.

[granite iris]

I think you're wrong

some get two or three monuments more than you

[rigid moat]

yeah. i mean. jeez. just pass me to the friggin design team on your way out

[granite iris]

I will

[rigid moat]

https://tenor.com/view/crycat-crying-cat-crying-cat-thumbs-up-thumbs-up-ok-gif-22851318

[granite iris]

https://tenor.com/view/willy-wonka-and-the-chocolate-factory-gene-wilder-willy-wonka-you-get-nothing-nothing-gif-5432076

[visual bough]

Another reason why rewards in transcendence should be given equally or close to equal. Capped players in the past got something many never will.

[sturdy geyser]

Thats cause we bought it. Past capped players were the whales that kept the game alive and solos were our reward for giving GH their salary.

[visual bough]

That's basically true, but lemming said they never actually liked the idea of solos

Why they kept it around for so long then, idk lol

Also sadly makes it unlikely they'll go for more equalized rewards in transcendence

[sturdy geyser]

Of course not. Free rewards meant less tcs bought. It was all about bottom line

[visual bough]

True. It's just a tough situation going forward.

I'm not gonna pretend to know what's truly best for the game but I know it ain't what we're looking at rn. 😆

[sturdy geyser]

Difference between devs

2 weeks. Player base complained. They fixed it.

Devs are also active in the discord and respond to player feedback.

[clear turtle]

Because unless tournaments give equal rewards, there's no other way. It's either tighten up the Algo and get some solos, or eliminate solos to include more players and make the algorithm trash.

There's just not enough players to eliminate solos without matchmaking quality suffering.

[granite iris]

yet here we are

[sturdy geyser]

Except more players wont matter. I mean it might say foe the 100s of players that hit transcend in like s3 or s4 or whatever but for people already at transcend with way higher stats the overall pool will always be small with a proper algo.

[clear turtle]

Yeah, I'd prefer it to stay small.

[sturdy geyser]

New algos giving me pointless 2 man tourneys where only 1 of us has a chance to win. I would rather just have solos. Like other guy in my tourney had 0 chance.

[granite iris]

yeah, the concept of tourneys they use is just not feasible

people have already suggested to add personal mikestone rewards to largely replace the competitive rewards from tourneys, such that you reduce the impact of inherent unfairness in matchmaking

gh is yet to even consider something like that

if you can't progress then you can't progress

no point in placing people in tourneys against other players with a massive advantage right from the start

[sturdy geyser]

Yup

[granite iris]

another thing that would have been good to maybe put work in before releasing transcendence

[sturdy geyser]

Gh prefers to do it quick and dirty. They believe it is better to act quickly and dont care about the consequences later.

[rigid moat]

I didn't know there would be any rewards. i thought it was just an avatar.

[visual bough]

Sorry, I meant tournament rewards.

[sturdy geyser]

I think we might have to start doing some pins or TLDR posts every few days lol

[wise prawn]

let's go for 500+ replies

[sturdy geyser]

Only? Why not go for

https://tenor.com/view/vegeta-its-over9000-dbz-dragon-ball-z-gif-22240874

[rigid moat]

wait. so is transcendence really just... ground hog day? i make it to 250k at the end of the season. i get reset to 180k. and at the end of season 2 i just... do it all again? and reach 250k again, if i can even be bothered. whats the progression mechanic now? did i miss something?

[sonic latch]

You’ll have accrued more stats between seasons and hopefully there will be new damage increases and changed to monument balance

So it should be slightly different in terms of end result

[floral ingot]

Each new season will have new monument categories (and thus new monuments), so generally each new season will feel a bit different. But Transcendence was always intended to just be an extension of main game to give softwalled/hardwalled players the ability to progress again.

[granite iris]

but we don't progress really

if we always reset to 180k

[floral ingot]

It's drastically more progress than being hardwalled at the stage cap used to give you. And generally the seasonal resets are mostly just a way for the devs to add in things like the new monument categories to keep the game fresh while not power creeping the game so hard that all previous gains are meaningless.

Realistically we're being reset to 180k, but within a couple days we'll be relatively close to the end of the previous season once we discover some monuments and do some prestiges.

[granite iris]

I wouldn't call it progress

[rigid moat]

I guess what i was missing is... if i do season1... get to 250k... but then miss a season... then in season3 i decide to play again... i still get to 250k. there's no real incentive to participate? like a reward buff... 1.1x mementos for the next season, for example

would that be progress?

[sonic latch]

Well you’ll get the milestones each new time and then will be differences in the balance system that should make you go further similar to how master tier has worked.

[granite iris]

but only the small season milestones

not the big, useful ones

[idle elk]

What game it is ?

[sonic latch]

I’m hoping they’ll be a bit bigger next season with the expectation that you’ll have collected the majority of the first time ones you will pass in the new season.

[sonic latch]

Sounds like a marvel snap thing

[idle elk]

Ok, comparing this company to GH make no sense, that's not the same company size. But yeah

[sonic latch]

I don’t think it’s that crazy to send out compensation for issues that mess with players

As it shows goodwill from the company

[marsh talon]

Also doesn't cost the company anything

[idle elk]

Not saying the opposite, you know that

I was talking about his screen and the 2 week fixes

[sonic latch]

I understand from an update perspective the speed of fixes will be hard, but for example the recent algorithm changes really screwed up tourneys

[marsh talon]

I understand not giving out compensation for extended maintenance or something, but for screwed up algorithms and tourneys with cheating winners, it just makes people not want to play

[sonic latch]

And nothing was given as an apology or to fix the loss of rewards

[marsh talon]

We do our best to tweak the algorithm means nothing really

[sonic latch]

It might not seem like an important thing to gh. But to the players, it really just looks like gh don’t care that they been shafted.

[marsh talon]

It really does

I'm sure even just an apology would be welcomed by players. Some sort of communication

[sonic latch]

Like fair enough you might have held off a bit to distribute compensation till the algorithm was in a good state rather then giving out multiple lots

But that could be relayed to players

[idle elk]

You get years of solo reward as a compensation (that's a joke)

[marsh talon]

GH has actually said that though, and not as a joke

[rigid moat]

I don't see what can change tho. the tiny artwork? the monument name? it's going to be damage, or gold, or build specific.

[marsh talon]

I'm going to bet it's just going to be new monuments, maybe a few pool creations. That's about it

[sonic latch]

Hopefully they keep them basic, so they don’t need to spend extra time hunting down weird bugs

[rigid moat]

season 2 is going to be hard to start, i think

still at least I'll have this to motivate me.

[sturdy geyser]

Marvel snap.

And I mean I get that they are a larger company so they have the ability to work faster but that isnt even the issue. In 2 weeks they fixed it sure. But also in those 2 weeks there was open communication with the communty and a fix that the community was offered. If GH couldnt fix it in 2 weeks but came out and gave us some open communication on things they would consider doing or changes that they heard from the transcended players and liked and would see if they could inplement it players would be happier.

Transcend is trash. It is worse than being hardwalled at 180k. Instead you are hardwalled at 220k and you buy a monument. Hardwalled at 224k and you buy a monument. Hardwalles at 228k and you buy a monument. And with the momento scaling you need to spend basically all day every day farming to unlock monuments. It is literally like GH doesnt understand this is a game. We dont have 10+hrs a day to tap in order to get minor progression. We come on here as a way to have fun not as a second fulltime job.

At the moment the best momento gain for me per hour seems to be doing quick 3min farm runs. To hit the next monument i would need to do about 269 runs to unlock next one this way. Thats like 13.5 straight hrs of gameplay.

Like this is a convo i had with lemming about the bugged sprout monument. This is the difference between GH and Snap in my opinion.

[idle elk]

Not like in your example, snap did the communication before it was fixed either for the given problem, and if the problem was not fix, they would have not mention it

Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of more communication ^^

[sturdy geyser]

The devs are active in the discord. They talked about it.

Also it literally says they talked about making changes a week before they made the changes.

[floral ingot]

I've also talked about these bugs in the discord as well. It's mostly just the official communications that tend to not be something we can post until we have some form of resolution or steps forward. Kinda like how we had a DevUpdate about the algorithm matchmaking and how it was being approached the same week after the issues started

Generally we'll post about it on a Friday with the fixes going out on the Tuesday after

There isn't much more that we can do right now within the limitations set by our upper management, outside of perhaps something like a more public tracking of ongoing bugs outside of what #1030124993054523493 already offers.

[idle elk]

Don't worry, the devs do not say what their design team does not allow them to talk about. That's the same, it just look different!

[floral ingot]

The official communication about the issue you were having went out less than 24 hours after we had that chat in DMs

[sturdy geyser]

Molly isnt a discord dev. She works on second dinners design team.

[sturdy geyser]

I went and reread the hotfix post. It doesnt mention anywhere why the change was made just that sprout dmg is becoming titan dmg and doesnt warn people not to buy it or they wont be able to play unless they salvage it.

[sonic latch]

Wasn’t there a bit in the bug fixes about salvaging it

[floral ingot]

Yeah. A lot of the devs here are busy with working on the game, so they aren't as active on Discord or otherwise. Typically design is more active in the open beta, as they can work directly with players to improve balance or otherwise. As for more general communications, that's all falling on the community manager 😛

[sturdy geyser]

Except people in this thread are also in the beta and they said the devs dont listen there either.

[sturdy geyser]

Bug fix thread not the official post sent out by lemming so unless you are in this discord and check the bug fix chan you wouldnt know why the change was happenig

[floral ingot]

"The devs don't listen" is largely about how it takes time between when a piece of feedback is given and when it can be actioned on. Let's say that the open beta has some new features in it, and players give a suggestion to add a new feature on top of that. Work on a new feature takes a minimum of 2+ months from initial design, through development, testing, open beta, and then release. So since it takes time for the work to be done, people say that the devs aren't listening as it's generally impossible for changes to be made as soon as that feedback is given.

We do listen to player feedback though, and most of what comes in any given update is based on what players have asked for and given feedback around. We just have a very small team and there's a lot more players giving suggestions than devs who can implement said suggestions.

Generally in beta, things like balance changes and bug fixes can happen a lot faster, but things like suggestions for new features or enhancements to existing features aren't possible within the window of that beta

[floral ingot]

And yeah. The goal of that post wasn't to tell people a bug exists, but to tell that the bug was fixed (and thus all issues related to the bug would go away on that day when the fix was released)

[idle elk]

Strange that when stuff are done, we don't see you saying the opposite either

[floral ingot]

That's actually very normal across all communities for all games

[sturdy geyser]

The post didnt mention the bug at all. Just that a change was made. For all the community knows it was just a power scaling issue and making it titan slayer would keep it more in line with other dmg monuments.

[sturdy geyser]

My game was bricked. I was told salvage it or wait a week for it to be fixed. Why would i say thanks for fixing an issue that broke my gameplay that never should have existed. It should have either been caught in beta or you know its the exact same issue that happened when sprout was originally introduced.

[floral ingot]

Obviously we would have preferred to catch the bug prior to release and have it fixed. It wasn't discovered by our internal testers or by the 70ish players in the open beta, so we didn't have a chance to start trying to fix it until it was reported by players after release, and that's also why we were able to get it fixed within a week of release after investigating and finding the issue in question.

[wise prawn]

algo is still really bad especially for ppl overpushing really hard before 6.0, i swear

[wise prawn]

stop fucking underrating scrolls for algo

[sturdy geyser]

Lets use a real world example.

You have been driving your car for 6 years. The manufacturer announces they are coming out with a new part that will make your car run like it did 6 years ago. You have spent 1000s of dollars modifing your car to improve it but decide to give them the benefit of the doubt.

After taking in your car and driving it a bit you notice that it does have a bit more power. Turning on the GPS you follow the route and discover that it only takes you into very high traffic routes. You are a bit annoyed but there is an announcement that there is an issue with the algorithm that will be fixed.

As you drive the second day your car suddenly has error lights turn on and wont speed up above 20kph. Turning it off for about 20 minutes lets you drive it nornally for about 3 minutes before the car gets the same issue.

Taking it to the dealership you are greeted by a fairly nice associate who you explain the situation too. They are aware of the issue and explain you have 2 options. Either pay them to remove the part or drive with it at 20kph for a week and they should have a fix. Asking if you pay will you get refunded they tell you that isnt their policy. Asking them if they will make an announcement about it they say no, not until they have a fix

The next day they announce changes will be made to the part. They dont explain why just that a few things need to be updated and they can do it on tuesday. Itll be sent to your cars computer and you dont have to do anything besides an update

Are you thanking them?

[idle elk]

You're still out of purpose with my comment Not talking about this specific case as you mention, it's still not perfect. Not disagreing on that

[sturdy geyser]

Except when things are done that people actually enjoy they talk about it. There is a thread for the couple of things people like about 6.0. The problem is there are way more issues with it than improvements so people have a lot more things to focus on.

If there are 3 good things and 200 bad things you tend to focus on telling them how to improve those 200 rather than compliment them on those 3. The 3 are fine great job, but these are what we need fixed.

[storm bobcat]

https://discord.com/channels/352838812646506497/1131933206992662538 Here. You've had your post about "What's good in the patch". It got a lot of traction too, a whopping 37 answers.
Well, mostly 36 complaints and one "Thanks for all the feedback and suggestions in this thread! I can pass this all along to the design team 👍" (Just like every other posts uh ?).
Do you know why people complain ? Because we get one or two nice things that are out of the ordinary (The splash changes and the advanced start changes) which are massively overshadowed by yet another screwed up tournament algorithm that has been an issue for ever, the end game is doomed and even less interesting than the regular game loop (According to people actually at cap which I'm not one of them, full disclosure) and just bugs everywhere with said skip rework just not working, algo being ultra broken, prestige relics not showing the correct number, 3 monuments that had to straight up get reworked because they just didn't work without breaking the game (That's just 10% of the ~~artifacts ~~ monuments being broken on release)

I also feel like this community is quite vocal about what they enjoy. Dungeon Eggsplorer was quite well received and people let you know. Clan raid was well received initially, even though it was not perfect. The skill tree rework had a good reception too IIRC and all of those were introducing actual new content and not just Relics, Artifact and Prestige being renamed to Mementos, Monuments and Transcendance

[wise prawn]

prepare for image spam... it's related, not meaningless spam

[idle elk]

My message was not targeted over the discord community as an all btw ^^

[storm bobcat]

I mean, the whole community is complaining

You can look at the whole #1030124993054523493 channel and realise that it's all bugs and complaints

[wise prawn]

k those images are more than 50 in total so i need to make zip files

these are my all 5 brackets, and i got no win from any of them
almost every opponent absolutely had more scrolls than me, even other stats too, which means we called it 'broken'

only thing i'm better than them is just daily prestiges per day, i prestige 60 times per day every day and today was 100(i mean today tourney) and still lost

there's literally nothing i can do if algo doesn't calculate scrolls, LTR and LTM right, only thing i can do is just losing whole 4 months single season, that's it

[wise prawn]

why does improved algorithm exist when algo gives more advantage for campers and gives shit for tryharders? (u can also check ⁠Gamehive's promise? (read desc…)

now we can assume those things gh said were literally scam, bullshit at all

my winrate was higher than 50% even i've overpushed too much so i reached 180k on day 879
now it's gonna be broken and i just must see it without any hope as i always lose whatever i do due to shit algorithm

what are scrolls, LTR and LTM doing on algo and matchmaking? i never feel it's working well
6.0 algo is just literally hopeless for me, it is...

[sturdy geyser]

@wise prawn engame algo is pointless atm too. It reminds me of the Borat movie

I prestiged my neighbour prestiged
I spent momentos he spent momentos
I bought a monument....he couldnt afford it. I win

[wise prawn]

for ppl who don't want to open zip files...

1. https://imgur.com/a/9eATUbM
2. https://imgur.com/a/odcQcki
3. https://imgur.com/a/9o2t4mR (UT)
4. https://imgur.com/a/LsTcybx (UT)
5. https://imgur.com/a/up0MQCZ

[wise prawn]

for ppl who don't want to even open imgur links...

[wise prawn]

^

[wise prawn]

^

[wheat tree]

For my tourney (under 180k) the alg was pretty reasonable for my brackets (few hundred ms differences), but rip the 180k+ brackets

[wheat tree]

Oh i agree with this a lot, people in my toruneys have like 1-2k more scrolls than I do, which is easily several k ms push at <180k ms

Please rate scrolls in alg more closely :))))

[sturdy geyser]

The issue isnt even the algo for the 180+.even if the algo is perfect you cant do anything once you hit your hard wall and need 100s of runs to progress when you dont even have that much time in a day.

[lunar karma]

Spent days farming a monument just to push 2.5k stages, now according to gh, just keep playing and get monuments to push, I need to prestige 750 times for next monument to maybe push 3-4k stages(ofc if not pulling trash monuments that you need to salvage) there’s huge stat differences between them and me, first pushed from 201k to 209k in 1 prestige, whoever’s idea was 6.0 should reconsider coming up with new ideas

[sturdy geyser]

Welcome to the 6.0 is terrible thread.

[leaden obsidian]

This is a juicy thread

[sturdy geyser]

Best thread on the discord lol

Only person I am not sure about on this thread is @clear turtle.I think they were secretly sent by GH to undermine the cause.

[leaden obsidian]

I like Anny and his arguments. They are well placed and equally valid as anyone else's opinion.

[sturdy geyser]

Oh i know. Still think hes a secret agent

[clear turtle]

I wish, I would be able to smash NoNo and own the new Mustang GT if that was the case

[sturdy geyser]

Gh is based in Toronto. You might be able to get a used kia forte and some poutine. Our dollar isnt the greatest

[clear turtle]

Lol HAHAHA that was good 😂😂

[sturdy geyser]

I mean based on the 84 bundles i gotta scroll past and the 9 video chests they need some added revenue.

[clear turtle]

[sturdy geyser]

Now i want a poutine. Lol

[clear turtle]

Go get one

[sturdy geyser]

Its like 8pm. The good fish and chips place near me is already closed.

[clear turtle]

Plan on it tomorrow then! There's absolutely nothing like enjoying good food.

[sturdy geyser]

I am gonna. Poutine is one of those super easy things that is also super easy to mess up.

[clear turtle]

Nice

Now how can we keep adding "juice" to this thread? Lol

How close you are to your next monument

[sturdy geyser]

Mmmm

357 farm runs at 3 mins each

[clear turtle]

We are in the same boat

311 runs here

[sturdy geyser]

Number 10?

[clear turtle]

9th

[sturdy geyser]

10 for me

How was your tourney

[clear turtle]

Won it, got a monument pushed 5k and stomped the competition.

MS before monument was 220700 though, so if I didn't farm 140 runs for it I wouldn't have won.

[sturdy geyser]

Oh i did the same.

[clear turtle]

Nice 💪💪

[sturdy geyser]

Feel like transcend tourneys are gonna be like abyss. Either you get a tryhard who wins or no one plays

[clear turtle]

Yeah it's going to be RNG because some might pull a monument out

I kinda don't like that lul, it's going to be problematic starting next couple weeks if not already.

[sturdy geyser]

Yup. Bank a momument. If they dont do the same you win. If they do hope yours has more pushing power or you are SoL

Also what happens when you have all 30.you just sit at a hard wall and hope for solos?

[clear turtle]

I guess so. So far though, scaling is bad enough for NoNo not having all monuments yet I believe.

[sturdy geyser]

Really? Even at 400k

That seems crazy to me.

[clear turtle]

I don't remember who it was, I think Viperous or someone very knowledgeable that did the math, I think she's at 28.

Personally I'd just let her beat the game and let a few more players (maybe top 50 or so) get all monuments. That way the average Transcendence player can get 20 or so instead of what I think will be 12-13

[sturdy geyser]

Ya prob1ably

[wise prawn]

is there anybody who still think algo is find?

i'll show him my brackets

[sturdy geyser]

Nothing to address transcend issues in update yet but I wasnt really expexting it.

[granite iris]

https://tenor.com/view/spider-man-no-way-home-michelle-jones-mj-expect-disappointment-you-will-gif-25165173

[sturdy geyser]

Yup pretty much. Like im not even looking for a fix. Just acknowledge that you see the complaints and will try to address em.

Im really curious if anyone on the design team plays anymore cause like I dont see how they could and be happy with transcend.

[granite iris]

they don't really

they work, so they don't have time to play TT2

but since everyone else doesn't need to work, their game design concepts don't really raise any red flags, so everything is fine

[sturdy geyser]

Pretty much.

[spare glen]

I'm sitting here wondering what there is left to strive for? I was below 180k just before the update, and quite honestly wish I stopped at 179,999 if I could've. Outside of clan raids and ATs, all I'm really doing lately is letting silent march do it's thing, prestige and repeat. Why? Because it's forever and a day until the next monument. In a mode that seems more like a dick measuring contest than anything else, and progression is reset to 180k at the end, anyhow. So...what is really the point?

I thought the slog from the cap before 180k to 180k was rough, but this update has just essentially taken my motivation from a low point when the master tier clan crap was tearing my clan apart between those that wanted to do the best and push as much as possible, no off-strat damage hit hit hit, and then hand me an anvil on the edge of a cliff and fall off into the abyss like a certain coyote.

GH may want to wait until the end of the season before changing anything with Transcendence, but quite honestly, by that time, many people may either jump ship already or if they don't see anything they like, season 2 may see a huge drop off in folks playing this game. Hell, day one happened and someone who was at cap for a good bit before the update saw it, went nope and said bye before the tournament was over.

So, GameHave, as someone who really doesn't give a care where I fall within the transcendence ranks, what do I have left to strive for? Progress in stages as far as I can to only be reset to 180k and do it over again? Eff that. Events? Oh, wait, ones like this I'm hamstrung by placement between ones I never have a chance to catch up to because potential doesn't mean shit if you're already a monument behind. ETA on next rework? Not like it'll matter this event. Could've at least had transcended folks get a minimum, then plus tourney placement. ATs? I try, get up to top 5ish and then get the I've wasted enough time on this crap mindset hit and stop bothering. Clan raids? Not really going to be fun if my top folks all quit because of the update. Then I may as well quit, too, because you finally ruined the one thing that kept me going despite all the ups and downs from updates. My clan.

So, after that wall of text, I'll reiterate my question. As someone who really doesn't care about how well I do in transcendence, what do I have left to strive for?

[sturdy geyser]

Are you a millionaire?
Do you have 36 hours of freetime a day?
Does screenburn on your phone not worry you?
Well have i got the game for you.
For the low low cost of $30,000 and all your free time you can be playing tt2 transcend.

[sturdy geyser]

This is an issue a lotta people below 180k in my clan have been saying. Cap was a goal. Somewhat impossible for some but still a goal. Transcend took that goal away and replaced it with an endless grind worse than trying in abyss

[spare glen]

Exactly. I had a goal previously. I even tried to get to cap just before the update and was about 1.5k short. Now...

[sturdy geyser]

@floral ingot be honest. Do you like the monument grind and feel like it works.

[floral ingot]

For people who couldn't get to the cap, there's no difference in terms of gameplay since you were never capped to begin with. For people who were at the cap, you couldn't actually play the game anymore since you were hardstuck, so Transcendence allows those players to actually play the game again and progress.

I know that many people wanted to "finish" TT2, but a lot of the work in 6.0 was to make it so TT2 would never actually be something you "finish" as long as you are still actively trying to progress. The goals now have been moved from the stage cap to the milestones

[floral ingot]

I feel like it could be smoother, and also that we should have at least one other meta currency to help players scale in power throughout the full season

6.0 was the initial creation of Transcendence though, so I do expect that things will be added or tweaked in future seasons

[sturdy geyser]

Except we still played. We did clan raids. We did abyss if we wanted too. We just didnt do an endless push cause we paid to avoid it

[floral ingot]

In my personal opinion, "paying to not play the game" isn't really a good thing. I agree with paying for some amount of quality of life to help make things a bit smoother, kinda like the ad skip for VIP, but I don't think that removing all competition and ability to progress is fun. We play TT2 because we enjoy the gameplay, so removing the ability to participate in that gameplay wasn't really great

And this is coming from someone who's been permacapped for years

[idle elk]

Personally, losing the cap does change how to play, I do have no reason to push anymore, reaching transcendance to softwall if no where a motivation as reaching the cap was

[sturdy geyser]

Except we are forced to play the same way with an illusion of progress

[granite iris]

I think you don't understand that making 180k the final MS cap was basically a nail in the coffin.
in the past, you could always anticipate the next cap increase, but now, this is over. People are at cap now, and transcendence just means that their future "progress" will get reset over and over again.

180k is our MS. now and forever.

nobody wants AT rules in the main game

[sturdy geyser]

@floral ingot 99.99% of the transcend players i talk to are still not playing. They are doing 100s of sm between monuments. So whats changed?

[granite iris]

yeah, there's no difference other than that we have worse tournaments

I don't see many positive effects

over what we had before

[floral ingot]

You actually progress to higher stages with the relics/memes you get from your prestiges, and you actually have the competition of tournaments (other than the ones where the algo hasn't been working as intended.

And to be clear, I personally would have preferred for the max stage to just be raised to 1M without the seasonal stuff 🤷

[sturdy geyser]

No you dont

Tourneys are broken

It is "can you buy a monument" yes? You win. Otherwise enjoy hardwakl

[spare glen]

Hundreds of levels in supposed A-tier monuments still leave you softwalled or sometimes even hardwalled to where you can't do much but wait to buy a new monument, because putting whatever you can afford to in what you already have makes little to no difference. And I ran into that before 200k.

[granite iris]

yeah, don't upgrade monuments more than a few prestiges worth of mementos

the system is so bad

no idea why we need to deal with this

[floral ingot]

That's more a matter of the scaling for memes/monuments/titan HP than something specifically about the whole Transcendence system. So that's technically something that could change in future seasons.

I mentioned in the above comment, but I feel that Transcendence really needs another meta-currency as well as generally smoother progress to be a good experience for the whole season

[granite iris]

clap with me: it's 👏 such 👏 a 👏 bad 👏 system 👏

[sturdy geyser]

Except no one at 180k+ wants this experience

[granite iris]

if it needs fixes, why do we need to deal with it now?

there's really no reason to make your player base deal with broken stuff

zero

zero point zero

no excuses to make

zero

if you need more time, take your time

[sturdy geyser]

Even people in beta were saying it is terrible

[spare glen]

Oh yeah, it needs something. But the problem is, who is going to care in the nearly 100 days that are left? We're telling you now. You know more is needed. Why are we subjected to this torture? It's more fun to play my tower defense game than this lately.

[granite iris]

anything else is more fun than this grind

although I switched to not caring at all and just doing SM prestiges all day as before transcendence

maybe just doing more SM prestiges, but doesn't really change a lot

it's just stupid

the experience of being in transcendence is just plain awful

the only positive thing were the big MS milestones

and those will be gone next season

[spare glen]

Oh yeah, anything you hit this season on milestone won't be able to hit it again, right?

[sturdy geyser]

@floral ingot do the devs not see how much we all hate this or just not care?

[floral ingot]

I've passed it along to the design team 👍

[granite iris]

you will get the smaller stuff that is tied to transcendence

[floral ingot]

You get the transcendence seasonal milestones, but you can't get the main milestone achievements a second time

[sturdy geyser]

Okay so they dont care

[floral ingot]

It's more so that any changes take some amount of time to develop. Generally for any new features or large reworks, it's a minimum of 2+ months between initial design starting and it releasing. So I'd recommend that if you are dissatisfied with the current state, give your feedback now, and check later in the DevUpdates/DevLogs for any changes that may help improve your enjoyment

[sturdy geyser]

What makes you think we will last thay long?

[spare glen]

I understand that things take time, but who will be around that will still care enough to give feedback on the upcoming changes in 2+ months?

[visual bough]

One thing I feel has been only very lightly acknowledged that I'd like to bring up is this:

The concept of 6.0 itself was to refocus main game's gameplay; to give capped players more to play, with the idea of actively playing being rewarding. To be honest, my playtime went from SM prestiges at cap to SM prestiges in transcendence. I was excited for 6.0 in the belief that active play would be rewarded, but with where I already am that has stopped

Of course, if we did get a secondary power source as you mentioned lemming, then active play could feel rewarding once more

[floral ingot]

It's not like the devs can magic code into existence for changes. We're a relatively small team, and we're working as hard as possible to prioritize what's going to make TT2 as fun as possible. That's why some changes that can be done without that wait time (like the bug fixes to monuments and algorithm refinements) are being worked on now, and we'll get out other changes that take more time when they're complete and ready for release.

[sturdy geyser]

What were thr changes? All i see is a temporary 1m cap increase, relics renamed momentos and artifacts renamed monuments

[visual bough]

But for now it's just SM or bust for many of us

[floral ingot]

Yeah. I play a lot of SM as well when I don't have the time to actively play

[sturdy geyser]

So end s1 and try again once the fixes are in.

[spare glen]

Before the update, I went up to my max stage religiously, and hell even accidentally pushed when I didn't mean to. Now, it's SM or nothing. Maybe I'll get in my 10 prestiges that get me event currency. Maybe not. I have no drive to push further, even in tournaments. X is already 2.5k ahead and next monument is X presiges away. Yeaaaaaaaaah pass.

[visual bough]

I was heavily enjoying myself when monuments were reachable, even within the 50 active prestige range. If things never got too spaced out, even Tournaments would feel better as a result

[sturdy geyser]

You tried. Transcend failed. Shelve it till it works

[idle elk]

You're mixing devs and design anyway, not because we see that it will change anything, we're not decider, we're executer

[sturdy geyser]

We arent saying fix it now. Just end it now until you make it work.

[granite iris]

tell design that they don't have any clue what design is

[visual bough]

I mean by now they all know how it's perceived, it's just a matter of what comes next

6.1 being small makes sense, assuming they're focusing on how to make things better going forward behind the scenes

But ofc it's frustrating for everyone when we don't really know what their plans are for the future of trans

[spare glen]

There's times to wait something out and there's times to shelve something until it can be improved upon. The latter is where the majority of us are feeling things are at.

[visual bough]

I really doubt they shelve it entirely, but I would love more than anything to have some communication about possible fixes/improvements

[granite iris]

yeah, get rid of GR

ah wait, we are talking about transcendence

[sturdy geyser]

They gotta do a campfire talk like blizzard is doing with their current dumpster fire of a game and let us have some open communication.

Like @floral ingot we love you but we need to speak to someone who can actually make change.

[idle elk]

All your concern are fowarded, that remain the same

[sturdy geyser]

When my house is onfire i need the firefighters to come and solve the problem. I dont need the dispatcher telling me they relayed the message.

[idle elk]

But you don't get the firefighter on phone ^^ You want it in your house fixing the fire

Lemming is the dispatcher, the firefighter is the futures updates

[sturdy geyser]

No

[granite iris]

you still need to see the firefighters work

[sturdy geyser]

Lemming is the dispatcher. Design team is the firefighters and the water is the update.

And unless they are here with us the house burns down.

[sturdy geyser]

I need to tell them what room the fire is so that the damage can be minimized. Otherwise it might take too long to find it.

[idle elk]

As far as I can agree with a lot of your concern, I'm not with this one

But as mention, don't worry, everything is forwarded correctly and discussed

When Lemming say it, it's done, just not a copy past sentence

[lapis burrow]

design is rather monkey playing with fire and burning random houses

[visual bough]

Devs don't want to deal with angry players lol. Lemming's job exists for a reason

And a good one

[idle elk]

Design are people, so watch your words ^^

[sturdy geyser]

They were using an analogy to describe how inept design has been with 6.0

[lapis burrow]

ic no these people, ic effects and describe how thay feel like :b

[sturdy geyser]

Also that is one of the worst attitudes to have. Lemming is relaying the info. Great. Nothing is being relayed to us. Design isnt saying if they agree or disagree. Lemming's hands are tied and they cant say shit. So to everyone playing it looks like this

Player "hey i have a suggestion"

Lemming "thanks, i will pass it along to the design team"

End of all communication on that issue

[granite iris]

exactly

[idle elk]

Design isnt saying if they agree or disagree.
They don't have to. also you get news in the devs logs etc when things are implemented.

They used to have communication around long time ago, things stop due to the community attitude and toxicity. Don't forget the past. And i'm saying that as a player

[granite iris]

you can say "trust us!" all you want, but that doesn't really give us much 😕

[idle elk]

Also our hand is not tied, we can say when we disagree

[sturdy geyser]

They literally do.

[idle elk]

As you can see some of my previous message

[sturdy geyser]

You cant just expect the playerbase to go on blind faith

Or you wont have a playerbase.

[granite iris]

you can expect them to go on blind faith if you proved yourself in the past

[idle elk]

I personnally read this kind of stuff since I started the game, so Idk (I started 2 weeks after the release)

[granite iris]

which just isn't the case, based on my past experience

you can only believe so far

[sturdy geyser]

Ive been playing since tt1

[floral ingot]

Most likely design won't be stopping by to chat with people on Discord for two reasons.

1. They're hard at work during their normal working hours, and taking time off that work to chat on Discord would lead to potentially less coming out in an update.
2. GH devs tend to get a lot of death threats and other negative commentary, so most of the devs who weren't part of the community prior to joining GH tend to avoid chatting in the community to avoid those experiences.

[idle elk]

Lemming and I are just warriors (especially Lemming)

[granite iris]

then you relay feedback to us 🤷‍♂️

[idle elk]

You litteraly have one communication per weeks

[granite iris]

don't really care where we get our feedback from or if there's a middle man

yeah, no

[sturdy geyser]

We have 0 communication per week. We have the dev update but 0 talk about any of our concerns

[floral ingot]

Generally we don't have something to relay that is meaningful until we have some form of solution, change, or otherwise something to show that things are being worked on and in a state where it can be discussed. Saying what might happen two months from now isn't meaningful if it may not happen in that time frame, might not happen at all, or may go through enough changes that it won't match what was originally planned months before. That's why we have the DevUpdates on Fridays, it allows us to discuss things that we know are in a good enough state that they shouldn't drastically change and will be ready on the release date of the next update.

[granite iris]

this week's "communication" didn't even address the current issues

hence zero feedback 🤷‍♂️

you can't really disprove the facts

[sturdy geyser]

Players" Hey guys the microwave in the breakroom has been down for a month any chance itll be fixed"

Gh "great news guys. We are changing form normal cream cheese to whipped"

[granite iris]

essentially that

[floral ingot]

There won't be any communication it until there's something ready to discuss that affects it 🤷

Like, if the DevUpdate said "sometime in the future we will tweak something about Transcendence to potentially make players enjoy it more", that wouldn't be meaningful without some form of more concrete details.

[granite iris]

couldn't care less rn if you communicate or not, tbh. But don't claim to do so when that's really not the case. Personally, I've just accepted the status quo and I've taken my consequences from it.

[granite iris]

that just means that GH doesn't really puts enough work into the issues

[sturdy geyser]

The design team has heard your concerns about transcend. While there is nothing we can do now these are the issues we have seen brought up
-xxx
-xxx
-xxx
-xxx

We would like to reassure the player base that we have heard them and plan to address those issues at a later date

Like why cant they even do that

[floral ingot]

I try to at least let people know that their feedback has been seen and will be discussed internally. How it progresses from there isn't something we can comment on until there's something ready for release.

[granite iris]

yeah, you could really honestly save your breath there

without getting feedback, it just means nothing, in the end. no offense.

[floral ingot]

There's only so many hours in a day that people work, and we only have so many developers. People are working as hard as they can. GameHive doesn't really believe in forced overtime for employees, so it won't necessarily be like some other game companies that have more toxic work cultures where the devs would work 12-16 hours a day every day until a new update is released 🤷

[granite iris]

just feels like empty words, even if it might not be

[granite iris]

then don't work on too many things at once

there's construction sites everywhere

[sturdy geyser]

I mean

[floral ingot]

When I say "I'll pass this along to the design team", it means that that particular piece of feedback has been seen and put in a format where design will review it, and it may be actioned based on priority. I'm tracking over 700 separate player feedback points right now in my tracking sheets, so having a list wouldn't be very meaningful for players as a whole 🤷

[sturdy geyser]

On average we get.1 new set. 1enchant and an event we have done a dozen times once a month. Maybe it is just me but there isnt a lot of new content added to this game all that often. 6.0 was supposed to be the next big thing but it fell totally flat. Now we are gonna just get that same recycled update cycle until probably s2. And nothing will change

[granite iris]

I'd rather have nothing changed than having to deal with transcendence

in its current form

[sturdy geyser]

I agree.

I miss Chris.

[storm bobcat]

God

I dont

[leaden obsidian]

I miss 5.30

[sturdy geyser]

I mean Chris said no to a lotta shit. Or that it was impossible for them to code but at least he said something.

[storm bobcat]

At least the game has been moving forward since he left. More communication would be appreciated though

[floral ingot]

To be fair, there's very few things that are outright no's. There's a lot of stuff that's unlikely to happen (like for example the "delete raids entirely" or "add a TT2 dating sim" style of suggestions), and typically I'll try to add that context when possible. But at least right now we record all feedback. Even if it's not feasible in the current setup, some changes in the future could allow for things to be more feasible. For example, with 6.0's cap increase, I personally expect that some changes that would have given too much player power could potentially be done now that the stage cap isn't attainable and thus there's no risk of hardwalling most of the community

[sturdy geyser]

Except right now everything feels like an outright no because none of the transcend issues are being talked about.

[floral ingot]

Isn't this thread specifically for talking about the transcendence issues that people have concerns about?

[granite iris]

unidirectional talking

[sturdy geyser]

Yes and we have gotten"i will pass this along to the design team" as our answer or "there wont be any communication until we can fix something"

[granite iris]

https://tenor.com/view/trust-me-bro-truman-fairfax-believe-me-bro-listen-to-me-man-gif-25607226

[sturdy geyser]

Basically 10 days of players complaining about how bad 6.0 is and you telling us design is hearing us and to trust that shit is being done.

[sturdy geyser]

If something more concrete has been stated I havent seen it on this thread.

[floral ingot]

Currently outside of what's already been posted in the DevUpdates about the monuments that were fixed and the tournament algorithm, there hasn't been any other official notices about what's going on related to work building off 6.0. But I can confirm that all the feedback here has been passed along 👍

[sturdy geyser]

And because design is so busy working on new content they probably wont have any time to address this feedback for months to come.

[analog cobalt]

Well only 97 more days. Then we get to reset and do it all over again. But this time instead of an aura monument we can get a slash monument, which is totally different and makes it so exciting to play the second season. And we may get a bit stronger with time, so perhaps we end season 1 at 231k and we end season 2 at 234k. Yay. So exciting.

[cobalt temple]

I’ve stayed out of this argument so far. I’ve now had 2 high end players quit the game because of V6 and trying to convince the others to stay. Not a great way to run a business…..

[sturdy geyser]

Equipment scales so my plan is to craft a full set on final day which should increase my base starting power and make it easier to push at start of s2...in theory at least

[cobalt temple]

Yeah, and how come crafting equipment doesn’t scale with the transcendent MS?

[sturdy geyser]

It does

I just said that

[cobalt temple]

It doesn’t, my rares that drop are higher than crafting a mythic.

[sturdy geyser]

180k was way lower

[cobalt temple]

Hmmm, most of mine are lower than dropped equipment. Weird, but ok.

[sturdy geyser]

I mean it is scaling. Not sure what your MS is but if you compare it to mine you can see that it is.

[cobalt temple]

I literally have an event piece higher than any mythic I can craft.

Maybe an outlier?

[sturdy geyser]

I believe that is common

Like I think I have had that happen before with rares or events but they arent worth using becauae mythics have more bonuses

[analog cobalt]

Equipment doesn't scale that much, at least not in the non-NoNo levels.
https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/616625656368988161/1131049337187745852/Screenshot_20230718_212139.jpg?width=959&height=496
^ That is a screenshot a clanmate took.
Plus, like Milestones that is something you could unlock in the future.

[sturdy geyser]

Ok guys I figured out the feedback issue and it is all @floral ingot 's fault.GH is Canadian. Lemming is Canadian. We say "6.0 is terrible. It is the worst update known to man. We need it fixed." Lemming translates that to Canadian english and says "there are some small concerns about the patch. Some of the players are a little upset".

It is all because of Canadian politeness.

[sturdy geyser]

I mean bottom is 180k and top is current ms? That seems like a fairly big jump.

[analog cobalt]

I am sayinng the jump between the levels

[sturdy geyser]

Oh ok.

What is their current MS? 280k? 300?

[analog cobalt]

Goinng from 31k to 42.5k gives e10 damage. Going from 42k to 48k gives a bit over e1

I am not sure actually, it is bks, from Lurkers

Their max stage currently is 257k but that picture was from a bit back

A week ago

[sturdy geyser]

257. I was looking at mine wrong. Thought it was lower for some reason.

Im a lil over 235k and its 45835. So that top one was prolly from 240k

[analog cobalt]

At my max stage, 235k, I can craft something around 46k equipment

Yeah

[sturdy geyser]

What time do you join tourneys?

[analog cobalt]

About 8 or so hours from now

Maybe a bit more

[sturdy geyser]

Like 8-9am est?

[analog cobalt]

More like 2AM

[sturdy geyser]

Oh perfect

I can avoid you lol

[analog cobalt]

I do it before I go to bed, with the idea that I have the entire next day to play

[sturdy geyser]

One less player in my bracket. Check.

[analog cobalt]

Hahaha

[sturdy geyser]

But ya like i was saying. I theory the growth between seasons shouldnt be crazy bad because equips give us a lot higher base power. I mean e11 from slash +whatever we get from rest of equips should make the first 1/3rd of monuments a lil smoother.

[granite iris]

fingers crossed that we keep the advanced start from season 1

[sturdy geyser]

Lol

[granite iris]

that should make it easier, too

[sturdy geyser]

Unspent Momentos carry over.

Just salvage all at end.

[granite iris]

sounds fine to me

just let us keep our MS

[sturdy geyser]

Ms is a lie.

Im am actuallly a bit surprised this thread blew up like this. Like i know GH wont change anything but it is good to know there are so many like minded players at least

[idle elk]

No, you're back to 180k, or wathever your prestige stage before

175k I guess?

I don't know what's the last advanced start before transandance

[sturdy geyser]

That was a mix of sarcasm and wishful thinking

[rigid moat]

i am not surprised. tbh this thread is the most exciting thing to happen to the game lately. I'm glad 6.0 was shit... it birthed this beautiful behemoth. i love you guys

[sturdy geyser]

"Hey guys Tt2 is great again"
"Wait the game is good?"
"Well no but there is this one discord thread. Pure gold"

Like, maybe GH doesnt understand but most of us didnt stay because we liked pushing. Only reason I lasted over 5 years is the friends I made in game. The game itself lost interest ages ago lol

[sonic latch]

Yeah, back to 175k

[sonic latch]

It should do.

For anything post 180k

[clear turtle]

We lasted six years and a half. 99.98% will stick around. The vast majority who quits now in transcendence had it in mind before.

[clear turtle]

And this is why many people will actually never be happy with whatever GH puts out if I'm absolutely honest, even if Transcendence is fixed.

[sturdy geyser]

I mean ive been at cap for over 4 years. I have had to do minimal effort. I havent been at a wall unable to progress and i am gussing like 80% at transcend are in the same boat.

[granite iris]

and thankfully, gh provides them with good reasons to follow through with their thoughts 👍

instead of, you know, delivering a good product

so I guess it can be blamed on the players for having thought about quitting in the past

and not on the company that forced them to deal with a buggy, unfinished, broken and improperly designed game...

of course many players are actively looking for the last straw that allows them to quit a game that they enjoy less and less, but you also need to look at the reasons that brought people up to this point

and for many, these reasons include getting slapped in the face by gh over and over again, gradually losing hope that things change for the better

unfair tournaments, buggy/unfinished and ill-designed new features, mental burnout due to game design concepts, the inherent feeling of not being listened to by the devs, ...

[sturdy geyser]

Dont worry they are being told everything

[clear turtle]

Company forces nothing. Since when are we forced to play this game?

[clear turtle]

Aside from unfair tournaments, that's all games in 2023. It shouldn't be like that I know,but still, it is. And will players keep playing those unfinished, buggy, I'll designed burnout inducing and on top of that MONEY sucking games?

YESSSS

And that is the sad part.

Although to be fair GH did introduce features I've been wanting over the years, they took longer than anticipated but still. It's more than what EA would have done

Transcendence is something that will eventually be fixed as well, I just hope it's improved by season 2 since this one is pretty long by itself. In fact I think that's it's biggest issue.

[wise prawn]

Justice for tryharders

😠

[marsh talon]

I don't agree when people just say "don't worry it will eventually get tweaked and fixed in the future". Don't praise GH for poor content. If an update an update is supposed to be as big as 6.0 was, players can expect decently smooth gameplay. A few small non-game breaking bugs here and there are understandable, but look at the initial tourney screenshots and monument problems. How are players supposed to be hyped about new tourney gameplay when they get matched up with superwhales or stuck because they chose a strong-sounding monument? No apology, comments, or compensation from GH, twice in a week.

By the sound of it, they spent a long time working on 6.0. I don't know what the NDA people said about it, but I can tell you that the beta testers did not have a good time testing it, nor were they optimistic on it being released to prod. Poor memento scaling, mandatory monument salvaging, pitiful milestone rewards are just some of the things that made it to prod unchanged. Even small things like prestige relics being displayed instead of mementos for people in transcendence.

Every big update that GH released is half-assed and always needs major tweaking/changes/additions to make them "work" and even then, some of the reworks don't fix the problem, but even create more problems. Instead of continuing to design more broken features to add to the pile, GH needs to work perfecting old content and making it interesting.

[wise prawn]

i know and i understand bracket can be unfair sometimes, but i expect 'sometimes', not 'ALWAYS' AND IT'S EVEN FAR WORSE THAN BEFORE

[wheat tree]

the 1m stages thing was kinda insane, i'd understand if they made it like 250k or even 300k, at least something for people to work towards and know if they made it, like before you'd get some nice solo tourneys (minus the insane tourney matchups), but 1m stages is basically just rewarding the superwhales (our patrons NoNo and top 16) that could avoid queueing against eachother 😄

[sturdy geyser]

NoNo cant reach 1m. They prolly cant reach 500k.

[granite iris]

the existing monuments don't provide that level of power

not even close

so even if somebody would want to reach 1M, it's just impossible 🤷‍♂️

by "design"

if you can call it that

[sturdy geyser]

Im sure Elon could do it with his wallet. Would need to do like 10x NoNo stats.

[sturdy geyser]

This right here annoys me the most. Like Beta told them it is bad and players would hate it. GH just tossed it out anyways

[marsh talon]

They likely don't have any time to make any big changes before the prod release because of their secretive nature and short scheduling. Beta usually only tests for about a week for smaller updates. 6.0 was about two weeks. Unfortunately what beta gets is basically what GH has decided to release for prod regardless, minus a few number tweaks mainly.

What I don't understand is how the people in NDA can go through all this content and think "Yeah, we don't see any problems with that. The players will love it." Most of the time people in beta don't even need to test the actual content. They just look at the patch notes and know that things won't be well received. Actual testing usually just confirms it.

[wheat tree]

Right, but since nono's so far ahead, basically wins every tourney

But my point was that 1m stages is a too much and really, REALLY disincentivizes pushing

[sturdy geyser]

This is such a terrible model and explains why so many bugs slip through. There isnt enough time for beta to test anything and their feedback is just ignored anyways

[lapis burrow]

Gotta say this too, releasing low quality software is the biggest issue with 6.0
Not just about trans/tournaments and various debatable nerreworks, but also AT and early game broken by poor design of skip system
It could be easily tweaked more for a few weeks, while running yet-another-event-from-the-loop on 5.3 to deliver way more quality experience and get way more okayish feedback

[granite iris]

as I said: beta is just another way for GH to catch some bugs and to ignore even more feedback

they're all about ignoring feedback

this way, they can ignore it twice

maybe three times, if you count the NDA group

[floral ingot]

6.0 was mostly intended to rework old content. Main game hadn't had serious reworks in a long time, and the bulk of 6.0's patch notes are around main game reworks such as the skip/advance start reworks.

[marsh talon]

Should have just focused on reworking old content then instead of releasing transcendence along with it.

[sturdy geyser]

It was to get rid of solos. They hated that people at cap were getting free rewards

[granite iris]

wasn't free, though

people put their time and money into it

was a nice reward for playing the game for years

[lapis burrow]

sounds like sensible/understandable model
tf this was considered bad, doubt that cappers were leaving or getting bored
possibly to bait NoNo to reach 1M 🤷🏿‍♀️

[sturdy geyser]

grabs a tea to read the novel Mardregg seems to be typing.

[marsh talon]

This is the thing. GH has this notion that people don't enjoy sitting at the cap because they "can't progress", when in reality it's probably a handful of players that spent enough money to buy a few cars. I'm willing to bet that if you asked all the previously capped players if they "had nothing to do at the cap", the majority would say no. At least people could tweak their runs for speed/farm for the event or whatever at the cap before while still getting nice rewards for all their dedication to the game/spending.

Now you have this transcendence system where most people get walled at around the 10th monument, which is done in about a week. What do people have to look forward to for the next 100 days? The leaderboard is useless since it will be the same every season and people have to do 50+ prestiges every tourney to even go for first. Caribie did 100+ and still lost. People left the game when MT was introduced due to burnout. So GH introduces seasons to the main game that are even longer than MT. We already have people quitting in the first week because of how stupid it is. Imagine 3 months from now. Season1 STILL won't even be over by then.

[sturdy geyser]

Walled at 8th is my guess actually

8-9 took me about 160 farm runs.

[marsh talon]

Whatever 10, 8, 5, what's the difference. There are 30 and most people won't even see a 1/3 of them

I only have 4 and I don't even feel like going for my 5th

[sturdy geyser]

Yup.like 9-10 is gonna take me over 300 runs. At 3mins a farm run i dont have time for it.

And was SM nerfed? With new titan count i swear its taking me way longer

[idle elk]

Curiosity question, aside from the tourney algo, if you have one things to add/fix to make Transcendance fun, what it would be ?

Or I guess "more fun" or "less boring"

[granite iris]

does reverting it count as a fix?

[marsh talon]

I personally would have liked to see monuments that do something other than x damage/x gold

[idle elk]

More seriously myself

[granite iris]

hehe

[idle elk]

This kind of sarcasm is why devs don't come to talk, so when they try too, be serious 😉

[marsh talon]

Just some ideas, but maybe something like 10x portar skip or something

[granite iris]

if you don't find a way to enable people to actually progress, then there's no real way to fix it

[marsh talon]

Something that makes the gameplay not just the same 150 runs to the same stage

[granite iris]

no monument will fix this

the system itself would need a fix

[sturdy geyser]

Monuments that have an actual impact on gameplay rather than being artifacts in a halloween costume

[marsh talon]

Monuments are actually worse than artifacts because of the mememto scaling lol

[idle elk]

Let's say x10 portar skip is a thing, do you know that mean having less worth advanced start, because things need to balance out for example. You can't really have 10s prestige

But I get your idea, just giving you some limits

Taking some notes on my side btw

[marsh talon]

Why not though? You've introduced an unreachable cap, why not give the players some more power

Why does every buff need a nerf?

[granite iris]

don't think that faster runs are useful if you still can't really progress, eventually

the issue is that your effort isn't really rewarded

[marsh talon]

Yeah that's true, not really anything though out, just throwing out some ideas of unique monuments

[granite iris]

not in tournaments, not with basic progression

and that already after a week into the season

[floral ingot]

Mementos are intended to just be seasonal relics, and monuments are intended to just be seasonal artifacts.

[idle elk]

Because there is stuff like 99 prestige event that would be totaly broken with that bonuses

[sturdy geyser]

Alright dream this is my suggestion. Keep the monument system and momento sytem however rework them. Make monuments more like a statue with different tiers that appear as you grind momentos. Each season use 3 paths but make each path build specific. Have the different monuments offer seasonal powerups that work similar to abyss buffs guiding you towards a build and encouraging trying new builds each season. You can have like 10 tiers on each so still 30 new powers per season but trying these powers enhances how your build is played instead of keeping it the same generic gameplay

[idle elk]

As far as I can hate the 99 prestiges event

[leaden obsidian]

Less mementos required between monuments would be huge. 100s of prestiges between monuments feels like progress is nearly unachievable to players.

[marsh talon]

Well you won't hate it with 10 seconds prestiges

[floral ingot]

Non-damage or gold monuments will be useless. They'll always be worse than something that gives you actual power. Hence why the Cloaking monument is bad although it's huge for speed

The reason why those sort of artifacts work in main game is that you're guaranteed to always get all of them quickly if you try to

[idle elk]

I really like that suggestion. With that you could kinda make artifact continue to scale as monument would not be "artifact" per say

[lapis burrow]

having ability to slowly progress instead of discrete jumps would be the most obvious improvement
via extra currency/daily boosts/w/e
not that it will make it fun IMO but still

[sturdy geyser]

Yup

[idle elk]

Yeah, so having something else that boost that are not artifact

Thanks guy, I will try to think to that. Not like it will change anything for the future weeks, but still

[sturdy geyser]

I would also suggest with my idea having a casual average and dedicated build type. Like dont do dagger pet and hs together. Try to insure cs gg and sc are there so people can still play less active.

Unless a monument power offers that. For example tier 1 pet could be "your pet is imbued with the power of the divine hummingbird. It attacks xtimes per second"

[lapis burrow]

possibly monument's effect curve may be adjusted to eliminate discreteness
as in not too much in the beginning and still something effective in the end

which means that upgrade cost gotta grow while you inrease MS and mementos income

so current model is about mons as permanent boost more or less and delaying progress by locking mons behind bazzilon of prestiges wall
suggested model would be buying small bits or progress by farmed mems

[wheat tree]

maybe give more power to monument upgrades too xd

cuz from what i've heard/seen the upgrades are not worth, at all 😄

[sturdy geyser]

In my expwrience after dumpikg 2-3 runs into each one i get between 300-500 extra ms. So like 10-15ms per before the returns become so small i dont notice anymore.

[wheat tree]

yeah sounds no fun

[sturdy geyser]

You can do crazy fast push in AT. Why not in main game too.

[analog cobalt]

I don't know if it is a one thing to fix the problem in my opinion. With artifacts, you could progress, every 200 stages or so the relic gain doubled so there was actually incentive to push, to upgrade artifacts, to upgrade book of shadows, and things like that. There were still walls but even collecting a hero scroll set felt a little bit useful.

Now the cap is 1 million, so gaining 50 stages doesn't matter. Monuments are the only way to gain push power, so you grind for those. But memento scaling is bad, meaning progression doesn't help a lot and at some point you just need to prestige hundreds of times stockpiling mementos while making no progress.

[lapis burrow]

the problem of BoS for mems would be progress dynamic like 20-100k in main

[analog cobalt]

A BOS for mems wouldn't solve the problem, it would create another problem. There are only 25 useful monuments, and once you collect them that is pretty much it. This is why memento scaling is what it is, they don't want players to push through the 25 monuments in a week.

[sturdy geyser]

Thats why i suggested a mythic with a flat 2x bonus. You would still have to do a ton of runs but it would lower part of the burden and as an equip would travel through seasons.

[lapis burrow]

we discussed this, it will end up in exactly same dynamic, just with more mons
solution is to adjust mon power distribution
now it's like 'buh +5k and thats it'
should be like 'new mon, +500, nice, and can still upgrade to help moving'

[sturdy geyser]

It would cut the time between mons by half. Best we can hope for atm.

[granite iris]

https://tenor.com/view/the-best-they-can-leonardo-dicaprio-dont-look-up-the-best-of-their-ability-do-all-that-they-can-gif-24584902

[lapis burrow]

not going to run in cycles with this. You are imagining it wrong

[sturdy geyser]

Are you transcended?

[granite iris]

if you cut the time in half, you would now just be further ahead but in the same situation, basically

[sturdy geyser]

Yup but it would feel more like progressing since you would move further twice as ofte

[granite iris]

no, you wouldn't

you would get to the same point as right now

but just have more monuments and be a bit farther ahead

[sturdy geyser]

I mean more monuments is usually a lot farther ahead.

[granite iris]

the same as the time doubles now, it would double then, too

not sure how to best explain this

it's a bit difficult to wrap your mind around

like, instead of having 9 monuments, you'd have 11, for example

[sturdy geyser]

Except you arent doing push runs. You are doing wall runs. The number of runs stays static once you hit diminishing return. So lets say you buy monument and upgrade. Relic 9-10 takes 320 wall runs. You get mythic and it is now 160 wall runs.

[granite iris]

you'd gain more mementos, but you'd then still have to wait for 200 prestiges in both situations

[sturdy geyser]

No without mythic it would be 400.

[granite iris]

yes, it's the same walls, just with more monuments owned

[granite iris]

no, you still don't understand

you are at a further point

[sturdy geyser]

Exactly.

So

[granite iris]

you own more monuments, and it costs more to upgrade those, too

[sturdy geyser]

Lets say im tryin to buy 10

[granite iris]

I mean more to unlock the next one

[sturdy geyser]

It ie 8.5b

That never changes.

[granite iris]

yes

[sturdy geyser]

It stays 8.5b

[granite iris]

yes

[sturdy geyser]

Currently that is like 320 3min runs for me.

But if i got the mythic it would be 160.

Lets say 11 is 4t.

It would always he 4t.

So i would need x 3 minute runs at new ms to get it.

But that drops by half with mythic.

So if total wall runs to get all 30 is 100k runs. It would end up at like 50k once you got to the farm stage for each one.

[granite iris]

yeah, I guess so

[sturdy geyser]

So 2x as fast.

The math only works cause you are doing wall runs

[granite iris]

yeah, but you'll never get to that point where you are "done"

you are stuck before that point

[sturdy geyser]

Gh doesnt want us to anyways

[granite iris]

yeah, that's not the point

you are stuck before unlocking all monuments

in both scenarios

[sturdy geyser]

Yup

[granite iris]

ok

[sturdy geyser]

But with a mythic you at least feel like you are able to move a little more. And if your final ms is higher thanks to mythic you can start next season with more base power and push a bit further.

[granite iris]

and let's say that unlocking the next monument simply costs twice as much as the previous one

so the cost doubles each time

[sturdy geyser]

Oh it is way more than twice.

[granite iris]

yes, but just for the sake of the example

so you have twice the memento gain and cut the number of total runs to unlock all monuments i half

that's correct

but the only thing you gain with that is being "one monument ahead" of the person that does not get twice the mementos per run

because for the next monument to unlock, it costs twice as much, but you also gain twice as many mementos

it puts you in the same situation as the person with no boost, but at the previous monument

and the difference in time to reach these exact same situations is insignificant for both players

a flat multiplier for mementos doesn't really change the players' situations significantly

[sturdy geyser]

I mean nothing is gonna change it significantly. We either quit or find a way to deal with it.

[granite iris]

yes, but were you able to wrap your mind around the issue? 🙂

[sturdy geyser]

That is how TT2 has always been.

[granite iris]

there's probably a better or more elegant way to explain it

[sturdy geyser]

This is basically part of the tt2 cycle. Gh releases a patch. We complain. Eventually we just accept it. Only thing is it hasnt been this bad before.