#live-duels
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Atum 💀
New best team (unoficial)
Bella baal 2 att 1 ts
Skydold 2 health 1 ts
Santa dhar 3ts
by the time that happens the enemy has had turns as well
and can easily shut your team down
Theres not really much to get past skyd in the pool ngl
Any megataunt+denier can conter ur team
no controllers
sentri is using gigawert monsters in classic duels ok if I use pro monsters in grand duels 
shat up i went no controllers 
pro 
Bro my team was so busted that I almost beat this team
the only reason I lost was because my owlinia’s curse missed on theton when he had 10% hp left and he healed
Also there’s a bug where if you use akithron’s control removal skill it doesn’t even work. Like theton applied fear and I removed it but my owlinia still lost her turn
BTW ALWAYS USE LIFE RUNES WHEN YOU HAVE AKITHRON ON YOUR TEAM
cause you’re basically immune to torture
so one life and two speed for every monster except tank

Just got used to the blossom meta before it shifted to galactic 💀
True
Im still good at duels, right?
gets killed by some guy who puts speed runes in voltaik
the controller was just team speed and glyde with 2 strength and 1 speed so not too unpro
Unpro bc controller
tbh kronobite is absolutely garbage
Loser
Ong
Never had this happen before. I’ve always wondered though
it happens very often
So
Ever wondered what happens when you put two creatures that have no way of dealing damage
In a grand tournament
wow
i would have either left after a minute or stayed afk
I was afk. I was drawing with my phone beside me
Unpro
Pro
this team is stronger than triple ancestrals 💀

litterally counters any magic and nature monster and has the best tank while applying cda and baby rev
This team is worse as using ancestors 
how?
Not only its just cheap wins, it makes you a bigger joke just like most ld players
yeah but ig that's just what grand duels are for now
and then the next 5 attempts I got clapped 

I waited 1 hour for he leave the battle lol
oh god not another one
lmao this is me trying so hard for the level X rune chest 
Lol
Any team with skyd id
Is
triple ancestral isn’t even a good team to be honest robur is trash, theton is by far the best but Griffania can’t do anything against dots
Griff is the best ancestor
use all 3 then you’re the perfect combination of the lowest jester yet above socialpoint’s ranking
Theton >
No
Not really, Griffania is better
The thing is u can find a denier can do wt theton can do but u cant find a attacker like Griffania at the time but they go crzy together its like a anime serie
in live duels theton is better
Are you sure?
Yes
OK
best team until a pierce nerd comes out
pierce in grandmasyer ? who ?
Until one comes out
or a cold blood monster
ooh
each ancestor has its own perks
can't compare a control with attacker.
Its about which ancestor is best for control, for tanking, and for attack individ.
Oh man I did the same twice or 3 times lol
Waited more than 40 minutes but he didn’t gave up so I did lol
Lol
But gives you great chance to complete the damage missions on battle pass

level 130 gloverd, level 110 sorcerice, level 130 evileye
now that's top tier skill issue on the griff
Runes?
3 level 3 speed on evileye, two team speed level 5 gloverd, 2 level 7 speed sorcerice
it's how mine was setup ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Woah
pathetic attempt at reviving the channel (there was a scam link)
Lol
pro or no
How much funny do you want this to be?
MC: Yes
Biggest unpro
Boiling and drowned is death
You also have someone who can apply more torture
And a monster that can disable traits
and put vulnerable
Less pro imo
Sure Urchinon and Heliom are very pro but k9 kinda ruin that
Are ultimates disabled in classive live duels?
Most likely yea
😀
Stare contest?
Sad 😔
heliom has a mirror skill, depends, for a win with urchinion, deserved
best teams for grand duels and classic?
Lovestruck : why am i here
Imahin dude got skydkold instead of lovestruck
Nahhh that’s it will carry
I got this team and debuffed the enemy so much that I lost no battles because they all backed out
Live duels is just who goes first and denies enemy
Bruh I only got 1 actual fight the other 2 left instantly after seeing Cthulhu and the bird
(Yes I’m very fun at parties)
parties where they are playing music by Cthulhu and the bird
Lol I vsed someone with the exact same team and left instantly😂
Could have been you🤷
Maybe
How to win every live duel:
Get lord Hayman or Cthulhu (opponents will leave instantaneously)
Thats like saying “hey doofus, play easy mode and ruin the competition by the moron company”
👍
Bro I just did a match and the time on a move ran out for the opponent but they still used an attack after the timer. How.
I did that and lost every time
deserved 
You have the biggest skill issue
No just everyone else had them
Ong
why does my live duels team get wiped by voltaiK the redeemed 🙏
There was a ld tactic where they run voltaik redeemed with speed, strength and stamina while other monsters have all teamspeed
Its quite effective voltaiks tough blocks most skills ive tried it before his togh seems like a bulwark idk y
Had a good team in duels :]
Skill issue
Damn congrats
When will live duels be fixed T^T T^T
Arkanite carry 
Who to pick?
I would have said sorc
I went with dumbane
Ok
nice 
Baba Basheer and Dumbane are the Bread And Butter of Monster Legends

L basheer user
and i thought encountering basheer in game was bad
Who to pick?
Rusty 
Baba
Monke
I went with monke
boooooo
immediate terrible player 
its like lord hayman users in live duels all over again 
Fr
Sorry but i like using monke
yeah
Better to go for the X rune
A bit overkill tho
once again, sp failed to put the right rune on monster, so i ran attacker tyr
💀
what 
“best team without ancestrals”
uses kihaku
??
imagine using kihaku stamina removal and call it the best team 
he’s abysmal’s flamborg monk but more unfair by his controls
I used Owu Wu because it had better speed stat 💀💀
and thats worse 
now do it with one controller thats more skill or no controllers at all
AD + Taunt moment but no puny stamina wasters, ancestors or ankithron needed
or 2 controllers
instant lose team no wins no attackers no ancestrals🔥🔥
everyone is baba and no attcker
could never be this undeniable team
I fought that team
i stopped on purpose for the relic chest 
still L cus ancestor 
he did nun
bro cant stay without getting either stamina removed
or having total damage reduction
@lucid nymph pro or unpro
could never be this team
on fatal herald?
A guy that does a mega taunt (fire and dark)
he has sum shield
With an eye on it
@lucid nymph am i forgiven 🙏
@lucid nymph how about now 
grand when 
When it will come back
Metapod use hardened
Dont think it lasts that long it will give a draw text idk the exact word but ye unless u make it before reaching the last turns
There's no time limit
I never said that
But for me i kept fighting until it said a text where none of us won
It will give a draw text
Thats not a time limit its prob about turn limit
Since 40 mins is way to long
Do you have a screenshot of that?
it took me 20 or sum
No but should be somewhere here
Never seen it and I try longer than 50 turns
Try asking @tall smelt She may know 
I'm not calling you a lier
Just that nobody has posted it before
@lucid nymph barbari or mad country? 
cooked but cant screenshot 
5/6, 1 loss
stupid tyr users
less unpro cus madprof paired with mt

below average but not unpro enough to call you insane 
worse then baba paired with dumbane and mosklin (i cooked em)
pro 
@lucid nymph not so tiny
pro tinytrap + arkanite 
it was either them or Baba + Erafaz 
copycat team
got cooked cuz of barbari cold blood
Why not baba tho 😭🙏
cuz he's mid 
why am i against lvl 150 monsters in grandmaster live duels
When is this stupid bug ever gonna get fixed waited 5 min for him to dc but no ofc not, fix asap pls too many abusing it
cause in grandmaster u bring ur own monsters and theres no cap for levels
Rate my team
use team speed instead of team health 😭
W no ancestor 
Nah disabled robot wouldve won after 10 mins
Nothing against aki vs another aki
at least he cant heal
bro 3 ancestrals
on regular duals
i just realized that mid battle
how u get an ancestral every pick
Skill issue ig
its dumb luck. theres 0 skill involved in those duels
other people at my level are against lower levels
Yep just spam 3 speed on a fast denier like sorcerice or gugul and 3 team speed on the rest
given of course you get a denier
Broken team
i'd put team speed on mime
I'd put team speed on mimmense cause evaris and geneza will rip team before he dies if enough speed even without the life runes.
Can you change runes in duels?
yes
Dam thanks
If I pull a similar team I put Two speed and a team speed on both ancestors and then full team speed on the taunt
Even if I get outsped I’d have my Evaris and Mater go right after each other
It was in row
Rygolm
bruh responded 2 months late 😭 🙏
😂😂
lmao
Thanks for the help man
Just won after 2 months
JK BUT HOW DID YOU TAKE SO LONG TO REPLY
its duels bro just pick something and hope for the best
Yh no worry’s
Where are the duels at?
gone
Woah
^
bc they know stuff we dont
Why do they have to remove live duels
theyre reworking it
@grim night okay
So it gust to annoy players
beautiful 🥲

I missed live dule so much now I am happy 😁
I don't have access to it 💔 and also for how many days it will last
A week
Where did the timer go
uhhhhhhhhhhhhh what
Is live duels only for some accounts? I don't see it
beta . . Dw ur not missing much the rewards are garbage (the rewards are, 2k food, and 2k food, and 2k food 👍 )
Thanks!
its abt leaderboard
the rewards are actually good 4k sentium for first place
and duels are rlly easy
only if u spend 10 hours a day grinding them -_-
No help in live duels?
What help is needed?
Best stratagy to win every single battle
I find charm, roger and either adeled or l&s broken. Does have a couple flaws in et and cold-blood/pierce/taunt disable
itd still be fun to use a bunch of good monsters and testing them in a team sorta
is this mode coming back?
Whats the best team
yes
Will it return?
Prob not
Dang
Is this the mode were you have 15 seconds to attack?
I felt like i played this mode recenlty
You are prob thinking of friendly battles
whyd it go in the first place
Idk
That mode is available long long ago
I remember hearing in one of murkys vids it was because ppl would stall by leaving and rejoining to drag out the fights forever
that was not a big enough issue to scrap the whole thing
dang duels been gone for a while so sad. loved that gamemode
so helpful for people to learn monsters u might not have
Same monsters on cycle tho
Monsters haven’t been balanced for a long time
bring this back plssss
The duels were the only thing keeping me on this game
Bring back duels plssssssssssssssssssssss
Why’s this channel left if u guys not bringing the live duels left ????
In case it comes back.
When
Live duels comeback please it was so funn
Yessssss
When is live duels coming back again
😂
Basically you have 1v1s by adding people as friends and friendly battling
Which server is that ? And how can we join it ?
I’m the first one to talk here 
Just u lol
live battles discussion rip


Haha
anyway the duels start in 5h?🤔
Maybe in 2 hrs
🤷
Relics crafting had a problem thats why they released it after 3 hrs
🤔
That’s not true, game updates just don’t always drop at the same time as event updates. Same way the avatars appeared for people yesterday evening. We know it’s today, and 2 hours is a reasonable guess, but we don’t know
ok sonnor
i think new
O
Hello! Live duels will be available today at 3pm (CEST)
cool
So same as relic crafting?
From the ML team, we hope you enjoy the feature, the battles and the unlimited possibilities of creating a monster team from scratch
Wooooof
Do we have to use our own runes?
No, they will put runes on monsters and we can also change them
Wow
This is gonna be totally skill based
First Event to be Skill Based
I thought we will use our runes but they'll be capped to Lvl 6
RNG*
What RNG?
@little heath What RNG?
Random number generator
someone knows.
Is there going to be Nemesis/Warmasters up for grabs in this?
like can you get lucky and choose a nemesis or Warmaster?
I don't think so
Few Nemeses, no WMs.
wow
aw that kinda sucks
It's fair.
would love to be able to use some of the WMs
doesn’t everyone have the same pool of monsters
so technically it’s fair
it’s just your choice to use the WM or not 🤷♂️
Some WM (Thalassa) are ridiculously strong. So if you don't get that offered to you, then its way more unfair.
You don't pick from the big pool
you're offered a selection from that pool to pick from.
ok
So you might get offered different monsters to others
Is this out yet
Nope, see #announcements
IM SOO HYPED DJDHVDJD
Pls that the battles are Commons vs Commons 
I think the choices will be fair to everyone
It would be bad to get destroyed by some overpowered monsters
I think it will be balanced
Also
I think there will be no relics
Am I right or did I miss that?
Yeah no relics
Cool
So no one will have a big advantage
Cause healing, stamina drain, big shelids and revie relics are really annoying
I just want free nemesis monsterw
But if they gonna release free nemesis monsters then they gonna release like border line game braking elites
Well according to the description of the event
It's possible, but requires a lot of work
Ye
Dunn Ra was game changing
Wyrmlad was powerful
Gorg was also powerful
So there is nothing new
I think it's 25
Nah they will make it like samael and xiron and dunraa combined
Ye it's 25
Only allowed to buy 4 of the chest per rotation too
@vale sedge For 25 cells chest, you get to pick, but all nemesis won't occur at once.
Ah
I see
Thanks for the info @languid latch
Np
Isn’t it released in 20 mins?
Yes 😃
Common combats in the first tornament pls 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bomE7oMnBtw&feature=youtu.be NEW video is coming
Live Duels is a new and competitive PvP (Player versus Player) mode where you can battle in real time against other players. There is a twist, though! This i...
😱
OMG

Eomo eomoo
I hope they'll do a live stream
🤔
Yes please 
Live Duels are live! Restart your game to collect 4 free entry tokens!
why does my light samael have Samael Warrior
Hmmm I've known about that one, but thought it might be fixed. I'll note it dori incase its not picked up
ok i just won my first battle, it definitely wasn't as easy as i expected
the game crashed right afterwards though
did it count the win?
yes
also my enemy had 3 monsters, none of which were in my pool of 9
i thought we both get the same 9 monsters
Nope
No
There's a large pool, from which you get 9
another person may get an entirely different 9
You can see the pool in a window before you enter the duel (as in before you pay)
I beat an AFKk maybe he was unlucky with the teams
yay an enemy ruby just used ruby explosion on the first turn
apparently that still wasn't fixed
It should automatically equip them with the best ones.
5 hp
also mirak's status caster is the same in all of the 6 battles i did
Where do we enter
After I won a battle I've got kicked...
The errors with crashing are being tracked
@sly scroll Where can I enter the live duels?
It's the attack button, same place as dungeons/adventure map
You'll need to be on 9.0
Got'cha
me likey
lol
Got 6 wins
got 3 for now
The design so so nice
U Are the op monster Yami
Can you change your team after you’ve chosen one?
Hehe
Nope, once you've chosen, its set
Yuck. I had unfavorable options
is this a joke
i just lost because, of all moves, my wyrmlad decided to use the revival skills on the enemy
Does anyone experience game crash
yeah
@vale sedge yeah
After a victory
The game crashes
gg
But the progress is saved
yep
What the hell
i just fought a team with all monsters 3 strength
😁😁😁
needless to say, it was an easy win
I know
Yes
It temporary
you choose 1 of those 3
mephisto probably
also can someone explain why do i always have the worst possible possession luck
idk
Opponent disconnected.... didn't reconnect.. I lose 😆
whenever i'm possessed i use a move that suddenly makes a "i'm surely winning" situation into an "oh no situation"
meanwhile the enemy always either recharges, uses an useful move while the rest of the team has evasion or uses an extra turn move
because it’s ML ♡
Good comp?
Wait it’s uploading😂
I won Xirons eith this team 😅
did it reset the Hookuai back up to 7 days Yami? 😛
How did u win
i have decided to not touch these stupid duels until ruby is either fixed or removed
12-0 so far
Yeah
I got hit with an AOE deny with ruby at the very first turn
well ruby just killed me 1 minute ago
I found it weird
so ruby is definitely not fixed
Your round already started dori
So it wont have been changed for you
If the battle was already live
Wow did u Gus do this
?
What do u guys think of my team?
It's alright
Hi all, we found out an issue with Dsyncs
where do i report live duel bug?
we have already the fix, and trying to release a new version ASAP
Thanks alot for your efforts
all single target mega control skills are supposed to have 1 turn cooldown, yes?
Yes, did you found an exception ?
I see. We pushed the fix some minutes ago. When the users restart, they will get the proper config.
what’s wrong with ruby?
appreciate the hsrd work
Massive damage skills do have 0 warmup yes. Only area deny, single mega deny, and extra turns have 1 warmup
I think Ruby's AOE control should have a 1 turn Warm up
First match
Do I only keep this for a limited time???
Yes scouser
Yes
@dim quarry , if you restart the app, that should be fixed 😃
But I was hit with an AOE control at the first turn
Don’t fix it lol
lol
did you like the mode so far?
I sure did
This is one of the best update I've ever seen in my life
It is great
the battle aspect is fun, maybe a lower entry price would be nice
I hope so
I think it is
Yes 😃
Ok guys since I had bad luck with Xiron the Ruby twice
It relies on luck too much imo
Should I use Warthak the sunbringer, Drakor, or Faraday the Discharger?
i'd use warthak or faraday
Why i can't choose dunn ra
game crashed after i finished my duel🤔
Zameleon, Qinling, or Zeighar?
zeigh
Have to choose from only 3 option.
Balor, Al Canine, or Zimnyaya?
i'm pretty sure that if you restart it will be fixed for you, not for your enemy
so if you're interested in winning don't restart 🤔
you need to win 4/5 classic duel to get more profit than just buying the grand duel entry ticket straight up
granted you get extra loots, but imo it's a bit punishing
👆 rip
Still won
nvm you are just op
Lucky I had Itzinami
still mega taunts are kinda op if they set their rune right
Since the entry fee is 5 tokens
Shouldn't the daily goals give us 5 instead of 4?
@vale sedgeme too
I just spent 5 gems too for a chance to get dunn ra or mephisto. But bad luck
No idea what is going on. Opponent is doing nothing and there is no message being shown
Nvm now it's showing
Well I was lucky, opponent had Xiron Ruby
Who should I choose?
Raise your hand if you think Nemesis and Elites/Warmasters with 120 level skills are too overpowered for duels
Wyrmlad
I already lost thanks to Xiron and Wyrm. Seriously they needed to be reconsidered
Xiron will be fixed once everyone has inevitably had to restart
6-0
i'm more concerned with SC:mega taunt being too powerful tbh
Xiron and other warmup fixes are delayed. Expect them to be live in 1 hour from now.
Don't abuse them too much!
I have had two people leave the match already
Turns out people hate Wang zhou
LMAO
I won a battle
But both the enemy and my team died
Should that be considered a bug?
Ok, so I picked a team and then read instructions after about “be careful who you pick” and now I want to re select my team but can’t. Isn’t there a reset point where you can select team from fresh?
Imagine playing streetfighter 2 for the first time and you pick a team, only to be told that’s the team you always have to play with.
this isn't streetfighter 2 though 🤔
That’s not the point
Monster Fighter Ultra Turbo
And once you've finished the duel, you can try again with a completely different team...
the duel is only 6 wins or 2 losses, whichever comes first.
Oh so you can
Wyrmlad kk
Yes, I just said its set for the duel, not forever 
Phew
Sorry for the misunderstanding 
I retract my moaning
Yeah
U can get more than 1?
Yeah
Think u need 4 grand tickets to enter the grand duels
Whats the grand duels prizes?
Yes, 4 grand duel ticket to enter the grand duel
And we get 1 per 6 win?
You get 1 for completing a classic duel, 6 wins
it's every weekend
@sly scroll the avatar perfil of houkai dont dissapear if ypu dont use this
?
I said if the time is 7 Days
If you dont ise the icon you have that icon permanectly
after 7 days it goes away its limited time
I'm not sure how this works
It counts from the moment you get it
I wanna keep it
Yup and after the 7 days, it goes away
I don’t see why we can’t keep it
Wait how does this event work?
make team, do attacks, get rewards and repeat
You play live duels and you must win 6 in a row to get the reward
Update your game and then go to battle
You can keep it. Just getting 6 victories in a classic duel every week
Awesome, Thanks guys!
You need to be on version 9.0 😃
Can’t we just keep it and add a different avatar each week?
that'd stack up to a lot of avatars
It's similar to the pvp league avatars
How do you get those
just to be clear the grand duel only comes for a certain amount of time right
End in a pvp league at the end of a season
I’ve seen someone with a PvP league avatar but I haven’t gotten one
However that goes away, because its aiming to represent your recent performance
Oh
League avatars haven't been given out yet
This guy does
Oh
@drowsy lotus This was a giveway by accident, really small group of people
Mephisto, 100%
Mephisto tho all are good
mephisto is always the choice you want to make
I like these live duels
How much grand duel tickets do u need
4
What is the most ridiculous comp u went against?
My fav team was when I got ruby
They are giving mephisto to limited players....!

I ran against Xiron two times in each of my two attempts so I got kicked out
Got mephisto an lost
honestly I think pierceid is a better choice than Xiron in this mode
I won easily against Mephisto using Baba yaga and Neobuki
The teams are rng
The aoe deny of Xiron is broken it doesn't have a warmup
kinda sucks if you’re opponent has Mephisto and you have you no PER
yeah I don’t understand that
ruby is bugged right?
please fix
yeah
Shhh abuse it
does Pierceid’s Sit and Lose have a warmup
it's getting fixed once everyone restarts the game
Trying to do nemesis dungeon with my only nemesis Ruby an my game keeps crashing
They said they'll fix it but after everything is ruined for me I have now to wait till tomorrow and hope that I don't face any rubies
Do nemisis soul disappear?
Nope
all 6 monsters died in live pvp fight and it counted as victory for me, is it expected?
yes, death countdown from my piercied finished off enemy hookuai
hmm
Oof.
umm
Actually that makes sense that you won since it was from Death Countdown.
an aoe skill passed megataunt
Nani.
👏
Elaborate.

You either get a Nemesis or its basicly game over
Who to pick
@regal nest makes sense because Positive Effects usually bypass megataunt
@drowsy lotus I found Samael really useful
The only way for us to actually get the 4 tickets for this weekend is to spend gems right?
yeah
Well on first observation I can't see I'd spend any money on this part unless I can fully pick the monsters I'd use. I was stuck with bad choices where my opponents had great monsters. That level of disparity will keep me away largely otherwise would have been fun feature
Ok thx
Just need one more grand duel ticket
@wind void sammy helped a lot, good call!
@drowsy lotus ;) glad you did it!
I used him with the 100% revive, AoE Positive and Negative effects removal, AoE Positive Effects Removal and the single target Bleed + Blind
Yup
Neobuki I guess
Don't get how it's fair that all my choices were hasbeens and opponents had very new they couldn't compete.
Make sure you put Hikari and Seikawake attacks
Ok
Hikari removes negative effects and the other gives team life regen
I'd also put the taunt
Last maybe Team Stamina Regen, it's quite useful in this format
I always saw myself without stamina
Thanks for the advice
Np, good luck!
@trail finch I feel u
@drowsy lotus. Hobkin
Also each of the 3 picks should have a control hitter and support options. I ended up not getting a control monster cause only had option for 1 at first pick but I'd picked hitter on that one not knowing wouldn't get option again.
Rng
Does the game close for anyone else each time after you win a battle? I still do get credit for the win and all, but it's quite annoying having to restart the game after each battle I win.
No deaths zone lol
really love how ruby explosion has 0 warmup... 
i don’t like how you have to pick a monster out of the three. i end up without an attacker or a denier sometimes
yeah
@uncut lagoon good job!!
@uncut lagoon nd dodge area
You are very lucky if you get a mon with mega taunt
I won
Amd control inmunity
and the ruby
Dodge area is not that op tbh
@drowsy lotus good job and who what team
I had no trouble with it
Now I have 4 grand duel tickets
I controllled with nabuline dodges areas and xirons

Clean 100% stamina to one enemie
@uncut lagoon it is
I had a wrong setup on Wangzhou and literally couldn't touch Helgudin
You can remove Mega Taunt
ruby is reallyy unfair 
Honestly this Duels thing us kinda broken
it's just way too luck dependant
Sometimes the monsters selection is not really fair
it would be fairer if the matchmaking happened before the monster selection
ruby can just ruby explosion you turn 1 
😂 What was your team for that match?
so both people get the same monster selection
Errr, Marihelson, Drakor and Gakora
oh
Or maybe not Gakora, I don't remember
that probably wasn't very fun to use
drakor's fun but with that team composition you probably wouldn't even get a chance to enjoy him
PER
Why does this remind me something from Pokemon? I remember this feature happened in like some of their games but it's not exactly the same
Like I said maybe it wasn't Gakora
I know I chose Marihelson over Hackster, mabye a bad decision
the progressive rewards system reminds me of destiny's trials of osiris which was one of the coolest ideas I'd seen in any game when it was first released
They could be fun if you lucky if not they aren't fun
helgudin, mephisto, or farady the discharger
Helgudin
I'd say helgudin, depends what yu already have
Helgudin
Tell us the other monsters too
Hmmm
Qinling?
ive already got hel
Yep, Qinling
yeah thats what i was thinking
Very good support
tijen, francine, or nabuline
Nabuline
Nab
idk runes for them
