lore-discussion

[woven grail]

Which are the mastery

I read it and I am confused

Her face remained stony, hands steady, uninterested in the adults and their gossip. The cards she held were intricately painted, if faded and seemingly mismatched. She shuffled and spun the cards, ignoring the dirt that flared up in tiny clouds as her hands moved. She flipped the first card: The Arrow Queen. She flipped the second: Arrows Six. The third? The Red King: her own card. Then: the four of swords, the five of swords, the six of swords, and the seventh, all in a row.

Lynch appears out of nowhere, Does a Tarot spread and murders an entire family.

What confuses me is that the Red king is her card.

I have no idea that card exists, also this could be some kind of other deck as I have never seen a suit of arrows.

[winter basalt]

It's a Tarot deck

[woven grail]

What is a red king?

[winter basalt]

This is the information I found of The Red King: The Red King represents the ability to manifest the energy of the unseen world: to bring forth and utilize its power on earth. He holds a position of great advantage; he encourages you to proceed with confidence, strength and a sense of empowered responsibility.

The Red King in a word: MANIFEST.

REVERSED. Misuse of power, arrogance, spiritual weakness, squandering of resources.

[wintry root]

Makes sense for her.

[woven grail]

I think we found the same thing, I think that is just some art collection of some one.

Although Hunt might have just searched for that and used it.

Who knows

Or maybe she is from a different dimension where this exists.

[winter basalt]

She is setting up a Tarot spread though, based on the text

But is Lynch the one looking at the cards?

And why shouldn't Tarot exist in the Hunt universe? makes as much sense as voodoo and all the other stuff that exists

[woven grail]

Oh, I am not saying its not tarot.

I am saying I never seen those suits or cards.

Because if I knew what it was I could more or less speculate what it meant.

[wintry root]

there appear to be numerous variations of tarot cards

[winter basalt]

All the cards mentioned are actual Tarot cards

[woven grail]

My guess was like that, Maybe the arrows are actually wands.

Because the Wand King looks like this usually

[winter basalt]

But where do the Wand king come from?

[woven grail]

Tarot.

Like actual tarot decks.

[winter basalt]

Yeah I got that, but within the text? Why do you think it's the wand king?

[woven grail]

Only because 2 reasons, They mentions arrows, I have not seen old tarot decks with arrows. I think the guy being a normal thing in this world having unreliable narrators confusing wands with arrows.

And well, its the only suit with a king dressed in red.

[winter basalt]

The red king is also dressed in red though

[woven grail]

The red king that you gave is not an actual card in tarot.

[winter basalt]

Oh, okay

[woven grail]

I thought it was an actual card I made the same mistake.

Then I read the home of that page.

And it was like this artsy thing of making a tarot card each day.

[winter basalt]

Oh well, not gonna argue. I know very little about Tarot and just tried to search them up 😅

[woven grail]

I don't know that much either but think of it like a spanish deck, with 22 extra cards called the major arcana.

The first 54 are card Minor arcana.

Which is what she drew.

If it is a tarot deck.

And not some weird communication with otherworldy entities.

[unborn vale]

is it canonically acreat the devils advocate (Henry Trapp) can survive a bullet to the brain

[woven grail]

Well, There is the revenant also.

Who is basically a zombie I guess?

[empty owl]

there’s also the bone doctor, which was rumored to be otherworldly

yet he went down with two winnie bullets lol

[drowsy canopy]

as for the Lynch and the serum, it can work both ways, Its very possible Lynch is behind the new serum, the one capable of sterilizing both men and women. Whereas the old flawed male only serum has been around for generations.

as for supernatural hunters, all hunters are at least to some degree supernatural by virtue of their darksight given to them by the inoculum. We can also infer that many traits are extensions of a Hunter's supernatural ability. There is far too many perks that give a unnatural advantage beyond what can be considered biology

[drowsy canopy]

this is rather interesting, the Red King seems to embody 2 specific characters in Hunt, both Lynch and Huff. The Reversed Red King seems particularly fitting for Huff as much as the regular one is for Lynch

[noble scarab]

there are multiple versions of the serum mentioned in lore, one is the stuff made with demon blood, made by lynch, another is a version made with herbs and things found within the swamps, and there are probably other versions for other Hunting groups

[drowsy canopy]

I am convinced the herbal serum, is a stop gap. You don't become a full hunter by taking it. Its more a measure to initiate people in case of emergency before you do the proper demon blood injections.

[lyric arrow]

Correct me if i'm wrong - but afaik the hunter initiation makes hunters abnormally strong and be able to use darksight.

[drowsy canopy]

I may be mistaken

[lyric arrow]

the demonblood injections are vit shots if i recall the lore correctly altho i also remember a vit shot "recipie" based on plants

[drowsy canopy]

I remember the herbal inoculation for the Sculptor's influence was mentioned in the Nagant lore entries and was something made off the cuff

perhaps the herbal inoculation is literally just a mundane inoculation... its the demon's blood or whatever Lynch makes that gives Darksight...

[woven grail]

The only thing I found about the serum is that gives you dark sight, other than that you are pretty normal. unless the traits also are part of the serum and not just going into the weird.

[noble scarab]

the demon's blood inoculum probably is responsible for granting access to dark sight, trait learning, as awell as the supernatural durability and strength

I'd agree that the herbal version may act as a temporary vaccine to prevent infection rather than granting full "Hunter" status

[buoyant crystal]

Yall know a good video or something to read to get the basics of the lore to get me started?

[noble scarab]

Look up HazmatFTW's youtube, he does great lore recaps

[buoyant crystal]

I have watched a few. I thought hed be brought up lol. I hope one day they make a fat lore/art book like Apex did. I'd buy it in a heart beat.

[wintry root]

Same

[buoyant crystal]

Take my money Hunt!

At least it will go to a game that doesnt only care about money over gameplay

[wintry root]

☝️

[winter basalt]

I'm guessing they're going to push a lot more on the lore making with the tv-series adaption on the way. It only make sense they have to tie some knots and fill some holes.

[winter basalt]

And I a 100% agree. Would buy it in a heartbeat myself! A book that explains the lore, the infection, AHA and all the hunters and their connection with each other. I mean, I just found the potential(retold by William Carter) background story of Felis, which I didn't even know existed. So there's potentially a lot out there hidden in plain sight.

[wintry root]

Link pls, holy shit

[woven grail]

Tv series adaptation, what?

[winter basalt]

Just a sec, going to find it.

[winter basalt]

Hunt: Showdown is going to be made into a tv series

It's from the mastery of Winfield Terminus, Book of weapons

The one interviewed is William Carter (legendary hunter The Trick Shooter)

And of course this one. So what is real, and what is fiction made up by Carters retelling, we don't know.

[woven grail]

So William Carter is trying to say he knew about Fellis, but its probably a lie. Maybe.

[winter basalt]

Exactly, we can't really know what is real and what is not. But that there is a connection and something happened between them all is most certain.

[wintry root]

Like 50% of all sources we have are unreliable

[winter basalt]

The fact that Carter is tellng that story at all, suggest that Jana also survived. But then, did Jana kill Felis? Or did she run away?

I haven't found any more of Jana either.

I think there's also a typo in the last sentence too, because it says Ethyl raised the shotgun and fired, while already claimed she was taken by the landslide.

[wintry root]

Could be telling us something about the whole series of events

Namely that it's made up

Or heavily altered

[woven grail]

Unreliable narrator is basically the definition of Hunt lore

[wintry root]

Yeah

[woven grail]

If Felis is a selectable Hunter, how could she be dead?

[winter basalt]

Because the game is not canon to the lore

There is other playable characters that as far as I know is confirmed dead as well

[woven grail]

Like?

[wintry root]

Phantom, Hardin

And you can also put characters that would murk each other on sight in-lore into a team together

Ran a game last Sunday that had both the Bone Doctor and the Night Seer in one team.

[woven grail]

I mean, I do divide the gameplay from the lore.

[wintry root]

Same thing with hunters that are dead in-lore. If they lived at one point during the Event...

[winter basalt]

But, true or not, finding these in-game lores are always fun.

[woven grail]

I am trying to find Sherrif Hardin's death.

But

I did find a guy called John Wesley Hardin who is an outlaw who was killed.

Who I suppose is a completely different person.

[wintry root]

Are they though?

[winter basalt]

Yes, the sheriff's name is Wayne Hardin

But there are a lot of real people mentioned in the game and lore. John Wesley Hardin was an actual old western outlaw

[woven grail]

I found it in the scrapbook, those were news... that might put a bit of an idea of when things were happening. but nothing else.

Sadly the phantom doesn't really have anything associated to him.

Maybe some lone lore page hidden

somewhere.

[winter basalt]

I dont remember which weapon, but he is mentioned in the Book of Weapons.

[woven grail]

Ok I will check

[winter basalt]

I'll see if I can find it

[woven grail]

Is it in Bad as they seem?

[winter basalt]

No, I don't think so

[woven grail]

I found this. which makes me think that maybe he didn't die and more likely lost an arm like his model shows.

Ok I found something interesting. Gus is the Phantom

[winter basalt]

Yes, there are several letters to/from the Phantom(Gus Leroux) and the person who made his prostetics.

Where did you find it?

[woven grail]

Winfield M1873C

Starting with the Vandal version

[winter basalt]

Seems maybe Black Coat is actually dead though -Durant killed the mother of Jos and Fin, and killed their uncle (who was possible his brother) 15 years later. Durant was killed by Jos and Fin shortly thereafter.

From Bad as they seem

[woven grail]

Yeah can't really survive all those things. Getting shot in the eye then hammered and then probably burned. Yeah kind of immposible.

[wintry root]

People have survived worse

There was this one dude in the American revolution that was shot, beaten up and bayonetted several times, survived and lived for like 20 more years. Dude was already like 40 or 60 at the time or something

And then there's the classic Phinneas "railroad spike through the head and lives for 12 more years" Gage.

This one's doin numbers

[jovial basin]

Tbh id wish thered be a phinneas cage like hunter

Would fit perfectly

[wintry root]

There is one tier 2 that has an eyepatch on the left eye

But I agree

[jovial basin]

There are a few eyepatchies

But not really a rod head

In the image subtle, but due to the rod his skull is a bit fucked

Mainly cheek bone being wider

There could be an easteregg where you can find the metal rod somewhere lol

[wintry root]

Somewhere near the railroad track

Make it a usable item to you can to it to other people too lol

[jovial basin]

Pitchfork skin

[wintry root]

Exactly

Or a sabre if you wanna make it a legendary

[jovial basin]

Pitchfork wpuld fit better overall, crytek just needs to hive us the shop accessability for the melees

Anyway, getting quite of topic

[dreamy mirage]

Is the lore of why bosses are banished and normal enemies aren't specified?

[vapid vault]

Is there any content online to learn about the lore? Specifically why hell is breaking loose in Louisiana and what is it's origin?

[wintry root]

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLYeqVe-3O-DywOF4GNnFwLjTAwrYitphY

This is a good summary

[vapid vault]

thanks mang

[ripe inlet]

I think boss is hotspot of corruption. Banishing boss will delay the otherworld things. or at least it was what remain in my head. Can be wrong.

[spark umbra]

So do we know who this sculptor is?

[wintry root]

An extradimensional entity

We know nothing besides that.

There is the old Loa theory, but idk if that's still valid

[vapid vault]

do we even know if the sculptor exists?

[woven grail]

Well the OwO thinks its the sculptor. And some people have known the sculptor other than the owo like the chinese who know him as Nian.

[vapid vault]

Ok so it's not just some hunter dude being like: "Some evil force must be behind this I will name him sculptor"

[wintry root]

Yeah no, a lot of people are pretty sure an extradimentional entity is behind this crap

It's seems plausible

Enough

More plausible than any natural explanation anyhow

Ain't no pathogen gonna cause this shit without infecting the whole world

[woven grail]

What we don't know if the Sculptor is a single entity, a group of entities or different entities that are called the same.

I still can't get over the Voynich Script for AHA is OWO.

[sudden glacier]

I remember someone talking about characters in the lore calling it "A sculptor" which implies multiple

[vapid vault]

It could imply it's a job description more than a title and its just one guy

[sudden glacier]

yes but there have been multiple outbreaks, so it isn't crazy to think that maybe each was a different sculptor

[vapid vault]

i guess, but then why do they all sculpt the same things?

[sudden glacier]

do we actually know what creatures showed up in the other locations?

[vapid vault]

i guess not

[woven grail]

We know nothing other than the events of 1895 and that Nian does something similar I guess.

But we don't know if its the same

[ripe inlet]

I dont remember in whats it was written but in chine there is a different thing hunting down humans. ıf i dont remember wrong

[drowsy canopy]

I think I remember the justification for calling in the Sculptor in the Louisiana event files

[vapid vault]

Wait a minute...

OwO.... Nyan.....

[woven grail]

Yeah Nian, but I think they imply the Nian is the sculptor

Yes I know

[drowsy canopy]

in the Sculptor was unique among monsters the Hunters had fought previously by its ability to convert and twist people into more monsters

[woven grail]

"Many think the monster is only a legend. Many think the fight is only a symbol. But each Spring, Nian marks the turning of the year by coming out to hunt, devouring livestock and shredding human flesh between its murderous teeth. Spring is approaching again, and as local Hunters will tell you, Nian is no symbol; Nian is a symptom – of the Sculptor’s influence – and an enemy against which many Chinese Hunters cut their teeth and learn their trade." This taken from the Sword of Nian DLC page

Well Nian is not the sculptor but made by the sculptor.

[noble scarab]

I seem to recall a lore page somewhere that was describing the beginning of the outbreak that basically said “we’ve got a sculptor” indicating that there’s more and one type of entity

[woven grail]

Also one thing of note, other than the grunts and normal enemies, the bosses were created in one way or another by human hands and probably given power by the sculptor so its not something physical for what we know. For example the Butcher and the Spider were made one by a Crazy Taxidermist and the other by a crazy doctor. I don't remember the scrapback and the assassin.

[noble scarab]

The spider came from a mass grave

Scrapbeak was a civil war vet that lost his legs, and became corrupted during the war, he was eventually transformed into current scrapbeak

The assassin was a Hunter that was somehow corrupted or turned into a mass of insects. It’s a bit of a stand out because it’s the earliest major entity created and it’s the most intelligent, it showed up around 1890 and could still pass as human when in human form

[woven grail]

Yeah, Reading the Mastery entries of the assassin is a pain.

[junior pecan]

Archetype

Like poltergeist

[woven grail]

Its called a sculptor because as they put it in several letters "He morphs and changes (People and animals) into what he needs and wants"

[vapid vault]

Ok. So to put it in D&D / Pathfinder terms… the sculptor is an outsider who transforms people into aberrations.

[woven grail]

That would be correct.

Although he doesn't have a physical form that we know of.

[spark sandal]

yall tweakin

[woven grail]

yes

That would be correct.

[wintry root]

There was a minor event in New York around the time of the Louisiana event that was immediately suppressed. Didn't develop beyond a few Grunts.

As for the other events around the world... we don't really know. The Chinese Nian, whatever it is, is the only one we even know about.

[noble scarab]

They count the NY one as one, they’r was also the Cascades event, also semi recent. Other events may have also happened with Louisiana prior to this one as well

[woven grail]

I think that is actually the real yellow fever epidemic.

[sharp garnet]

So what’s the deal with the meat heads? Are they ordinary folk who got a mutated version of the disease that deformed them more than usual or do they come from the same place the bounties do like the butcher or assassin? Which I read are more like hell-spawn.

[visual finch]

Well, meathead are a peculiar thing

The original meathead was ||the spawn of a pregnant hunter, under the influence of all the dark ritual hunters goes through, the result was the meathead||

[wintry root]

||They are what happens when a woman who has been given the Inoculation serum becomes pregnant.||

[visual finch]

And since the sculptor appears to be "cloning" singular entity, like the hive and meathead, from that singular case the other were created

[wintry root]

Yes

I have decided to reread ALL the lore and update the old lore docs

God help me

[visual finch]

I'm re-reading those as well 😄

[split oak]

I'm fairly sure the hives are just infected people

the clones are the big bois, like Immolators, meatheads, hellhounds and such

[visual finch]

Nope. That's why they are all the same model.

I'm pretty sure about that

[split oak]

I mean, you can read it as that

but then there's the fact that there are several different Hive models, different skin colours, cloths, what have you

Perhaps its clones of different people, since Ada mentions she wants to give her mother "the rest she deserves", so it could mean that there are clones, but given she herself would've become a hive unless the AHA went and treated her, its definetly at least partially an infection

[visual finch]

No wait, there is only one hive model

[split oak]

there's 2 of them in this image alone

[woven grail]

Yeah, white and black hair hives, but I think that is more of a gameplay thing

Like for example, the black coat legendary hunter is supposed to be dead

[visual finch]

I will investigate further

Thanks for the input

[split oak]

yeah, but I see it this way

1- Ada Shell and her mother were infected with hives, they're not clones, but there are clones of them.
2- There are a lot of hives that are of different skin colours, different clothes, in general, different appearances, so its probable not all of them are Ada Shell and her mother
3- Taking into account the last 2, its most likely that some hives are Shell family clones, while others are either original hives or clones of different people

[tall lava]

I mean there is only 2 hive variants looks wise

The ones in your screenshot

[woven grail]

I don't see why there would be a problem in creating more hives from the general population

Everything created with hunter blood, I can see why copy it over and over

But thing that was kinda created with the plague? Yeah, I don't really see why.

[wintry root]

Let me propose an intermediate approach

At the start of the event, the Hives spread through infection via the bees. This is how women throughout the Bayou became pregnant with Hive seeds, I guess

But that was in 1894/5, and the current year is 1896. Is it possible that a lot of the original infection Hives have since died/been killed, and the Sculptor chose to clone one or two of those remaining ones to sustain the tide?

[visual finch]

Isn't 1895 the actual year?

[wintry root]

Iirc it's 96

[woven grail]

Yeah, since when?

[visual finch]

I remember 85

Sorry 95

[wintry root]

Didn't they progress to 96 at some point?

[visual finch]

I don't think so

[woven grail]

Nope

[wintry root]

Damn where do I have that idea from then

[woven grail]

It's a theory

A GAME THEORY

Dunno.

[visual finch]

Btw i think that this is because only some people have the right thingy to become special kind of "infected"

I think that ALL the infected are clones

with the exception of the grunt, that are the base

And MAYBE the armored.

Waterdevils can be special case too. Are they clones or they have reproduced after the first one?

[woven grail]

Maybe we haven't found the boss with the purpose of cloning

(Aka) they haven't made it yet

Or maybe that is what the spider cocoons are

[woven grail]

I always wondered

Why at the end of the Louisiana event scrapbook there is a vaporizer ad

[winter basalt]

Just found that there's information about characters and legendary hunters in the Trials section

[visual finch]

wut

[visual finch]

Yep!

I think every trial is a bit of lore for every hunter

[woven grail]

https://huntshowdown.fandom.com/wiki/Vaporizing_Inhaler_Ad_(Pages_19-20)?file=Louisiana_Event_Pages_19-20.jpg

This one

[winter basalt]

@visual finch Yes, I saw that. I didn't know this, so that was cool. I usually only use the trial mode for reference to my drawings and just noticed the part about past exploits of Hunters

[visual finch]

Some sort of easter egg. Must analyze it.

[woven grail]

It feels really random, but maybe it has meaning

[visual finch]

In argument like lore and such i become a conspiracy theorist 😄

[woven grail]

I am trying to make a video about the aha, but sometimes I just get sidetracked by details

[winter basalt]

Ooh, that's cool. You gonna upload on Youtube?

[dreamy mirage]

Random question: So if an person enters the Bayou without participating in the "quickening" what would happen?

[winter basalt]

They'll turn into Grunts is my guess

[woven grail]

Yeah

[woven grail]

The moment they get like a single scratch of a grunt they would quickly get sick and transform into a grunt

Unless they are special.

Aparently there are a few hunters that are either Immune or super duper dumb as fuck so they are immune to the sculptor.

Also they wouldn't get the dark vision thing.

[dreamy mirage]

Ok thought it was something like that. Making an audio play/podcast based off of three AHA hunters entering the Bayou so I may be popping in asking questions. I've done a ton of research, but have not found all of my answers I'm looking for

Anything that would specify what would make certain anomalies immune besides intelligence hahaha is it genetic? Or is that a grey area I can play with

[woven grail]

Well, We are yet to be sure how the Indians or the Chinese did it. (We aren't sure about the redneck either)

Sorry, Native Americans.

[dreamy mirage]

Ok awesome. The cool thing about all of this, is the lore is brilliant but a lot is left for speculation

Which I enjoy

[woven grail]

We theorize that there is something genetic with the Chinese, The Natives used some sort of herbal version of the inoculum and the redneck just didn't understand what the sculptor was saying.

[dreamy mirage]

I appreciate the help Doc.

[woven grail]

No probs. Press like and subscribe.

pfff

Anyways good luck with that.

[dreamy mirage]

Whats your channel lol I'll send ya a sub

[woven grail]

Nah I was joking can't post it here. And I am in the process of writing the script so its lame.

Just my livestreams of games that sometimes someone watches.

[vapid vault]

I like to think immolators are the rage filled revenants of burned out hunters

[ashen barn]

ah yes, 1895 Juul

[woven grail]

Well, they could technically be.

But most likely they are specific types of very angry people

[vapid vault]

Also wish the hives had a second stage, like the hive grows too big and they cannot walk anymore, the walk now immobile and the only remnant of the poor infected girl is an angry face shouting, discarded on the ground

oh lore question: What exactly are clues? Are they a corruption nexus? A portal between this dimension and the sculptor's?

[woven grail]

I have no idea but there is actual lore about the rifts of the quick play gameplay

[winter basalt]

Regarding the immolators, I've always found it so fascinating in QP, that if you do not get the wellspring in the end, your soul is damned and you have basically the same burning-animations as the immolators have.

[woven grail]

Well there is lore about it, they throw you in a place because you are sick and the only way to heal is the wellspring

[vapid vault]

Dissapointing, I thought I was actually fighting my way trough purgatory.

[woven grail]

https://huntshowdown.fandom.com/wiki/A_Communique_for_All_Hunters

[woven grail]

Also

https://huntshowdown.fandom.com/wiki/Armored

Armored protect the rifts and they are thoerised to be important for the Sculptor but nothing else.

[vapid vault]

they do often spawn on rifts, or 3 grunts, or rarely a hive

[visual finch]

Looking forward to it!

[spiral otter]

I always assumed that the Clues in Bounty Hunt were tracks and signs of the boss's passage, which the Hunters follow to track the monster to its lair. I assume that they don't actually look like black circles, that's just a game representation. In reality I think they'd be scratch marks, pig's heads, spider cocoons, birds' nests where items were clearly violently looted, and stuff like that.

I'm not super well versed in the lore, though. That's just my interpretation.

[woven grail]

Nah the "rifts" are talked about in the actual lore, they are actual holes in the ground

[vapid vault]

me and my friend liked to think that the reason hunters have dark sight is that they are also touched by the sculptor's influence, even if they use it to hunt monsters, the origin of that gift is still evil

but i think they just drink a potion or something

[woven grail]

They get injected with demon juice basically

[ripe inlet]

It is evil, did you read how that thing made

[vapid vault]

ok that's cool

i love it

[woven grail]

Read on Lynch Jelly

[vapid vault]

oh is that why the female hunters get their wombs remvoed? Because it makes sense now that the AHA would think there is a high risk of hive transformation if the hunters are injected with demon juice

[woven grail]

Which is also being part of my video because Lynch is kinda pivotal in the creation of the inoculum

[vapid vault]

I want to know how he pitched this to the AHA

[spiral otter]

Those are the Quickplay version. I'm talking about Bounty Hunt.

[spiral otter]

Apparently Meatheads are a concern, too

[woven grail]

Nah in the lore of the Armored they definetly call them rifts also

[spiral otter]

There are Armoreds in Quickplay.

The action is referred to as "cleansing a rift" for Quickplay (I think it's cleansing? The word "rift" is definitely used), and the action in Bounty Hunt is referred to as "investigating a clue."

[sudden glacier]

but they're still rifts

[woven grail]

Also in quickplay the rifts are different, they are not important to the sculptor

[spiral otter]

Yeah. That's why I'm assuming they're different from the Bounty Hunt clues.

[woven grail]

That is why in the armored description they say they are important.

For the sculptor

[noble scarab]

the clues probably act as mini hell portals that spread the corruption, Hunters are able to close these clues which reduces the spread of the corruption

the rifts seem to be random energy projections which may stem from just random bursts of energy from the otherworld

[woven grail]

Literally on the manual of the game.

[vapid vault]

I guess it's why they can appear atop tables

[woven grail]

Why did Lynch murder Huffman?

[junior pecan]

Jury’s out on whether its more “Huff doing a bad job (wtf even is his job?)” or bad writing

[woven grail]

She seemed mad about huff contacting Laveou

Because it's her people or something

[junior pecan]

She was mad about that weeks to months ago

[woven grail]

Gatekeeping voodoo smh

[junior pecan]

Might have something to do with the Crown girl or whatever her name was

But even then thats a narrative dead end

Been literal years since that lore and not another mention

[woven grail]

Nellie Crown, Yeah, couldn't find anything about that

The only thing I found is a news report telling a different story, as if someone shot him from outside or something

To makes matters more complicated

[woven grail]

Also there is the "I draw a card so you dead" deal lynch got going like a poor mans two face

[junior pecan]

The problem with this is that BATS very clearly illustrates this happening the first time after Laveau, but not at all when she actually kills Huff

Which means if its a true factor at all, it wasn’t relevant at his death

[woven grail]

I guess she acts more like the joker. But yeah, I have no idea why, and I've tried to find meaning.

I guess they haven't done much about it. Also BATS is written by the liar dude.

Isn't it?

[junior pecan]

Hows he a liar

Collins, thats his name

He basically only appears as author of BATS and is mentioned in some custom ammo articles

[junior pecan]

The physical animation does not resemble “closing” in any way, quite the contrary

[woven grail]

Mixed him with William Carter

Hayden Collins

[noble scarab]

Collins may also have exaggerated things or taken creative liberties with his writing, however we have to accept that he’s the best source we have for some things due to lack of overall information

[noble scarab]

We don’t know what that’s doing to the clue, I can’t imagine that we wouldn’t be stopping whatever they’re doing. Opened clues seem kinda used up or dead, but probably for gameplay reasons we can still investigate them

We also see examples of holiday and themed clues, which while non-canon, the material floating above the clue gets pulled back down into it, which suggests that opening the clues causes it to collapse on itself

[wintry root]

The original animation for the clue is much more... interesting, let's say

Iirc it was simplified to what it is today because performance

[wraith peak]

Are there any footages of the old animation out there? I'd like to take a look

[noble scarab]

was that the one where the clue would show you something from the boss' prospective?

[wintry root]

No, just the animation of the clue collapsing

The perspective thing is cool too, but I see why they removed it

[wintry root]

It's in pre-release promotional footage I think

[wraith peak]

Ehh let me take a look. Thanks for the information tho.

[woven grail]

Oh, I found something about Nellie, Apprently she was going to be recruited as a hunter.

[wraith peak]

Just saw a glimpse of it, exactly what you said it's like. However, the new hand animation looks cooler in my opinion.

[woven grail]

I keep investigating and apparently Huff was trying to assassinate Hardin?

[noble scarab]

They were part of the same faction within the AHA, so I don't believe that was the case

[woven grail]

That is why that is confusing, although my combing through the lore has more hidden gems than I expected

Also the RNs I wonder who is writting them or if they are the same person.

If RN is someone or it means right now

[noble scarab]

oh I see, I'd guess that Lynch convinced Huff to try to stop Hardin

also the RN are a combo of different people, years after the incident, some are probably Harold Black, but others are unnamed researchers

[junior pecan]

“Research Notes”

[woven grail]

Makes sense

[empty owl]

stopping him from what though?

[wintry root]

Killing kids with his Winfield 1873C Marksman

[noble scarab]

I’d guess he might’ve been helping to stop the corruption a bit too much for Lynch’s liking

[woven grail]

Like, nothing that Hardin was doing was more cruel than anything that Lynch could be doing.

The only thing that may be is that he was making his own little nitche in the association and she didn't like it.

Yeah, Hardin was executing people as part of the initiation, But I mean, who isn't executing a pair of people daily in the AHA.

[cold idol]

First, it was Vetterli, not Winfield

Second, you make it sound like he raided a kinder garden and made babies participate in hunts

[woven grail]

Well, he is technically doing that but with a prision.

[cold idol]

Kindergarden is a prison only if you let it be

[empty owl]

please tell me you're joking, that's pretty dark

[cold idol]

He recruited some orphans, sent them into the swamp and killed the one who was too good at it because he couldn't feed him through winter

[empty owl]

fuck, well that sounds depressing

i need some rest, this is giving me bad thoughts again

[woven grail]

Well, Hunt is filled with these little stories in the lore, think that is the darkest one I heard so far.

[cold idol]

Orphan doesn't mean a little kid

[cold idol]

Lynch skins people alive

[woven grail]

Eh, Possesed peopl.e

[empty owl]

still pretty dark

and i personally can’t really deal well with like dead kids so yeah i won’t ask any further

[cold idol]

Those orphans weren't kids

There is literally a zombie outbreak and you make a big deal out of Hardin killing some guy with nothing to lose

[woven grail]

Is it the prision thing again?

Or actually random people he found in the bayou?

[wheat wolf]

why did satan cause the zombie apocalypse in the swamps out of all the places man

why didnt he plop it down in the middle of new york

[woven grail]

Apparently he tried and failed

[cold idol]

He did actually

[woven grail]

The Bayou was his second option.

[cold idol]

The outbreak in Bayo is just the most severe outbreak at that time

[wheat wolf]

how did he fail

[woven grail]

We don't know, We just know something happened in New York that wasn't that severe

[rustic hearth]

It wasn't Satan that did this, at least as far as we know

[wintry root]

In the "interview with Hardin" he says he "saved one with a scope for himself" out of a pile of 1873s I'm pretty sure

[wintry root]

I'm not

[wheat wolf]

dunno seems pretty satanic to me

with all the spooky monsters that are haunting places who you need to banish

[wintry root]

It's not

Afaik it has more to do with voodoo

Loa and stuff

If that's still valid

[woven grail]

Well, The sculptor, We don't know what kind of shit is this.

[wheat wolf]

maybe its an alien

[wintry root]

It's extradimensional, whatever it is

That much is stated

(Clue tip iirc - clues are portals to another dimension)

[plain zenith]

This is one of the few places where I found a reference to Satan aka Belzebut

in the official website. I don't understand much Creole language from Louisiana but I'm French.

It seems that he asks Belzebut to help him fighting "bad spirits"

[sudden glacier]

I can't read that

[woven grail]

The wiki has it translated

Its a passage from the Carole Bible

BTW, Voodoon is a syncretic relgion with Christianity. So this is more of the Voodoon angle of things

And no

It isn't asking Belzebub who is a demon both in Christianity and Voodoon religion

If it be by Beelzebul, that I should cast out devils, and with whom do they cast out devils? Therefore they shall be your judges.

The king James Bibles translates this passage as:
And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges.

[plain zenith]

I have a harsh time to understand this sentence, even in english...

[woven grail]

Yeah, Its more of a religious things.
BTW If I am correct in Demonology

Beelzebub is the lord of the flies.

Another Insect paralel to the book of insect things in Hunt.

[wheat wolf]

ok there you go the bee zombie plague is caused by that beelzebub guy

he thought it would be funny if women were to become hives

just like in the video game ''hunt:showdown''

[sudden glacier]

no, it was not

[wheat wolf]

you cant say it wasnt

[rustic hearth]

There's also literally nothing to say it is though

[sudden glacier]

we have multiple statements of it not being Beelzebub

[woven grail]

By the standards of the AHA, its the sculptor or a sculptor.

[wintry root]

Is that old theory of "Loa" (Hawaiian voodoo spirits/entities that live on a different plane of existence) still valid?

I remember it being discussed like 2 years ago

[noble scarab]

They’re Haitian, and it’s still semi valid as there are voodooists among the Hunters, the Sculptor probably isn’t a Loa however.

[wintry root]

Thanks m8

[woven grail]

Like anything in hunt lore.

Probably.

[vapid vault]

Do we know if the armored are related to the angry bees that turn women into hives since they seem to be made of evil bee hive paper or something, as well as certain boss lairs and areas.

[woven grail]

Nah.

I don't think they are related tho.

They are made from something different tho.

I think they tested it against bullets and it was like "Oh shit this is strong as fuck" but before they could use it in anything, it turned into ash and maggots.

Like in 24 hours.

[noble scarab]

The papery stuff is a basic medium that the insects that spread the plague use. It’s made by either the spider or assassin or via just straight up growing from thin but corrupted air. Grunts go into this stuff to metamorphose into armored and hives

Once it’s on the armored it’s different than the other stuff

[woven grail]

Who is bankrolling the hunts?

[drowsy canopy]

there seems to be a large private interest in the hunts. Several Hunters seem self funded. Beyond the Bounty on creatures it seems to be everyone funding themselves

[drowsy canopy]

It does make you wonder where it all comes from but I get the impression that most hunters are in it for money than the money. Many have either personal interest in the Bayou like Hardin, others are pursuing intellectual interests like Huff and Lynch, others see it as a Religious Crusade like the Reverend and Bone Doctor. Many others are already stinking rich, The Phantom is a Lawyer, Carter has an entire Circus. It seems the American Hunter's association is payed for by private interests who are in the AHA for other reasons and they bankroll the destitute grunts looking for a quick payday.

[noble scarab]

It also probably has government or state money rolling in. Huff convinced a few officials that the outbreak was being handled, so I can imagine the govt just kinda throws money at them provided there aren’t zombies roaming the streets too much

You’d also probably have private groups probably paying for occult artifacts and things

[sturdy gulch]

Where's a good place I could read all the lore? I wish they'd make books on it because it'd be an amazing novel

[wintry root]

The wiki I guess

I will be trying to update the lore doc

[vapid vault]

MAybe bounty tokens are valuable, kinda like Artifacts in STALKER

[wintry root]

Thats probably it

But what makes them useful is completely up in the air afaik

[drowsy canopy]

I assumed the tokens had ritual uses

[empty owl]

huff did said in his letter to the CEO of winfield that he has multiple benefactors backing him up

considering his connection towards the government i’d say that the government is one of those benefactors

[cyan tide]

I thought bounties were just a proof of sale, essentially? You bring it in to prove that you killed the thing, or at the very least that someone did, and then there's one less monster in the bayou and you get paid

[earnest jungle]

The bounties are what they're after

They're organs that contain parts of the Demon's souls

[glad verge]

what's the deal with the giant traps?

[empty owl]

if it were to be the organs of the demons, i believe the ones that are paying us wants it for further research and study about the sculptor for their own benefits

the AHA could have sold it to a private party or the government or even use it themselves

[lost lark]

ok ran into this last night during a match. had the upper hand on a 1v1 - the hunter charged me i was able to get 1 shot of aiming for his head my shot was blocked by his melee attack so i hit him in his arm. Aim punch is a thing - so im thinking that if the arm is able to block a head shot why isnt the bullet causing the hunter to lose their melee attack as if it were "aim punched" and melee isnt accurate, or it takes you out of the melee action and the hunter has to redraw. i think that seems fair.

[empty owl]

uhhh nice lore i guess

[west sinew]

If you were shooting an actual bullet, not a crossbow or bow, you just missed head. Bullets penetrate limbs

Also wrong channel

[woven grail]

Does anyone have the mastery pages of the WInfield Terminus?

[empty owl]

you can see them here https://huntshowdown.fandom.com/wiki/Winfield_1887_Terminus

i think

[noble scarab]

There's part of it

got into a match right before i could get the last one

[woven grail]

I asked because those are empty in there (Or atleast maybe something is going on with my browser?)

[empty owl]

huh weird, same with me

[woven grail]

Yeah the same with the Berthier (which is emptier) and Another Winfield.

Saddly its not what I was looking, I was trying to see if there was a letter from Oliver Winfield to Huffman.

[woven grail]

Eitherway, Thanks a lot.

[noble scarab]

This is for the Vetterli Marksman, in case it hasnt been posted here yet.

[winter basalt]

@woven grail

[empty owl]

ngl i think this "jane" in the letters is actually calamity jane, if we're going with the carter being buffalo bill route

[winter basalt]

@empty owl Just reading the description on the legendary skin makes sense for her to be the Calamity Jane.

[noble scarab]

Any ideas what the person in the vetterli page is talking about at Pearl? Things that aren’t the corruption and aren’t hunters?

[woven grail]

Well, the only thing I found after a quick look was Lots of insect pictures, Some weird Circle like cross stuff and a blackboard with a cute cat drawing

[noble scarab]

Hmm, there’s nothing in the map lore about Pearl either, except that it was a mansion inherited by Lewis Desalle who let it fall into ruin

Hopefully a new lore page might tell us more eventually

Tho I bet the next lore page will have to do with the couple from the Berthier lore considering the new gun is from that tree

[bold tiger]

What does the silencer lore say?

Since that unlocks afterwards

[noble scarab]

It’s from the same person, but it’s about the piano man in Lower Desalle, no mention of Pearl

The mini entries for the custom ammo don’t help either

[earnest jungle]

Did it look like this:

[woven grail]

Kinda But without the center

[woven grail]

Maybe its in other places

[earnest jungle]

Probably

[woven grail]

Because its repeated a lot in the house.

[earnest jungle]

It’s definitely not what I thought it was then

[woven grail]

Here are two side by side

Also we got some big brain at the pearl plantation that discovered relativity

Also cute cat

Also a poker game that went really fucking bad.

Although they are playing the unmanly more modern version of Poker Texas Hold'em rather than the manly normal variation of poker.

So they probably got what they deserve

[burnt storm]

That's where the Revenant was killed

[woven grail]

Well, There is something wrong if someone revived in Pearl like the Revenant.

[tribal frigate]

Any info on whether Redshirt is currently dead or not? I presume that's what the bullet hole in his target might imply, but I've found nothing other than the bio and trial descriptions.

[woven grail]

Probably not?

The only one that I know its confirmed dead is the Black Coat.

The redshit as fun as he is, doesn't have a lot of lore on him.

ALTHOUGH, The black coat could be alive and the dude that said he was dead was spinning tales.

[tribal frigate]

Or faked his death

Which would have been much easier during this period

[woven grail]

Welll

"Back in their kitchen, where the corpse of their uncle-father lay in a pool of blood on the floor, the stranger stood still, panting as he leaned against the handle of the axe he had taken from their own shed on his way inside. They were silent as cats, circling. They had but one question:

"What is your name?"

The man blinked and answered in a rough, wooden voice. "William Durant."

Jos swung her sledge hammer as Fin fired her bow into the skull of William Durant, whose blood joined that of his victim's, warming the cold stone floor."

Note William Durant is the black coat.

And just to continue
"It took all night to clean the blood from the floor. The twins burned the bodies in the fire of the forge, and in its heat they fashioned two identical knives that they would carry with them for the rest of their lives. When the first customer arrived, they did not hesitate to speak of the murder. In the face of a visit from a local lawman, Durant was handed the blame, and they were left alone."

Eitherway, No the Redshirt is alive until someone writes him as dead or he could die irrelevant.

Without nobody writing about him.

Who knows.

[tribal frigate]

I suppose that's the enigma of this world and it's inhabitants

[woven grail]

Yeah, Its kinda like the Skinflint. He is there but...

[sudden glacier]

redshirt is kind of a joke character after all

[woven grail]

not really relevant.

[bold tiger]

The phantom is dead too

[woven grail]

People say that but I haven't found anything other than a letter that says he survived a fight against a Irish woman

[bold tiger]

Hunting bow lore #2

Or wait there is anoher part

End of part 1

[woven grail]

There is no Bow section in the Wiki pfff

[sudden glacier]

the wiki is outdated

[lost sable]

so is there a lore to why quickplay exsists

or the mechanics of it

[woven grail]

Yes

Actually it does

You are sick and you are put in place to get the wellspring to cure yourself.

Basically

[lost sable]

'sick' like the sculptor sick

[woven grail]

Nah

They call it "The Damnation"

[lost sable]

how do ppl know you have it

[woven grail]

https://huntshowdown.fandom.com/wiki/A_Communique_for_All_Hunters

Here

[glad pawn]

Yo so is there a collection of novels all this info is found in or articles or something? Id like to read up on some lore me self

[lost sable]

[sudden glacier]

the book of monsters/weapons in game are the best ways

[glad pawn]

I’m guessing if I look hard Enough I could find it online without having to boot the game up just to read that stuff yea?

[sudden glacier]

not all of it

most players who unlock the lore entries don't care about posting them

[lost sable]

its hard to find this stuff on the wiki, like the QP section doesnt even link to it

dont think its in 'lore' either

oh its in a section of 'online resources'

in lore

https://huntshowdown.fandom.com/wiki/Lore

wha

[native flume]

Louisiana Event

where can I see this in the current version of the game?

I see that it used to be in the library section

or has all content of the old lore books been moved to gun, and monster lore

[woven grail]

Its not there

They removed it

The only way to see it is in the wiki

[empty owl]

its part of the old lore

[woven grail]

I do think it's still part of the lore as it doesn't contradict anything, and the new lore reinforces it

[empty owl]

i personally believe that the old lore is pseudo canon in nature

[woven grail]

The old lore has 3 things really, a paper clipping about how they didn't contain the infection, AHA grafity in New York, and the letter from Laveou and Huff and vice versa.
Everything else is kinda unimportant from a lore perspective (For exception of maybe the tickets) but it gives an idea why people go for the hunt.
Many of the things are talked about, for example Lynch gets angry at Huff because he talked with Laveou, we know from other lore bits that the response was a fuck up and the news say exactly what the first clipping says.
In my opinion it's still kinda relevant, but not that much.

[north cedar]

The search didn't return much, so fully knowing that that could be kind of a stupid question: Does anybody know if Dark Sight has any deeper (or logical) explanation? I had a shower thought today, that it will be hyper cringy for the script of the series. I mean, as a mysterious gaming mechanic it's dope. True. But I guess if they'll go "anyone in the AHA has full-on-occult-magic-powers" in the series I'm gonna delete the game and cringe myself to death.

[wintry root]

Iirc the Inoculum gives the ability to you

It's basically seeing into the dimension the the Sculptor occupies

And it hurts like a motherfucker

There are also some people who are naturally gifted and have dark sight / Sculptor resistance without the Inoculum

[north cedar]

Thanks! I see. But now there are even more questions than before. Why, if it hurts, can you use it in-game limitless without consequences (other than other hunters can hear it and of course besides the 5 sec boost-variant of it). And why should there be people who are naturally immune against the sculptor? How long has the infection going on? All that doesn't matter too much from a gaming mechanic perspective. But I still hope they won't overuse it in the series. Oh, I should add that I generally think a series would break the immersion and atmosphere of the Hunt universe. But maybe that's just me.

[woven grail]

Well, there is long time usage problems, which can be seen on tier 3 hunters, We don't know why there are people naturally immune but some people are just are, like the Redneck or some of the chinese hunters who either have their own Serum or are like that, The infection has been going on for 1 year but its not the first infection.

[north cedar]

Are these "official" observations and can be found within the lore or are these deductions we only can do ourselves?

*can only

[woven grail]

Well, the Hunter tier thing is a thing that we can deduce from what the Devs said in the interview, They were asked why they looked like that and they answered "Do you think the serum comes without a cost" or something like that, The Redneck has something like a description like he was too stuborn for the Sculptor, The chinese hunters its just deduction, we don't know what they used but they were fighting the Nian (Which is a manifestation of the sculptor) For a long time.

So they need to have their own Serum, or be immune. As a single scratch can turn you into a grunt without the serum.

[north cedar]

Sounds reasonable

[pallid cape]

I think the reverend too Is imune becose of his iron will and fait

[wintry root]

The Reverend is the Immolator.

He canonical turned into an Immolator

That iron will and faith turned into uncontrolled rage and the Sculptor took him.

Same thing happens to you when you lose in Quickplay IIRC

@pallid cape This game's lore is way more fucked that you imagine. May I suggested reading the mostrorum and weapons book entries first before spouting stuff like that?

[north cedar]

What's the explanation for him being playable tho? o.o

Furthermore: Are there so many cases of people getting "immolated" that there are so many of them roaming the land?

[cold idol]

No, that was some other priest

[pallid cape]

I thouth diferent reverend wos immolator but ok

[wintry root]

Because the game is not canon to the lore. The Phantom is also dead, as are some others. Same explanation for th quantity of Quickplay immolator-isaton, and for hundreds of thousands, if not millions of games have been played. They're not canon to the lore.

And I'm pretty sure The Reverend is that Reverend.

[woven grail]

No, different names

Although, I would love to read the hunting bow masteries to confirm it myself

[woven grail]

They don't transform in immolators, they die.

There is a lore reason for it

[north cedar]

which is?

[woven grail]

They are damned, which is a sickness, the wellspring is the only cure

That is the basic

Not the same sculptor sickness that is going around the bayou

[north cedar]

okay

[wintry root]

Damn I'm really out of the loop aren't I

Where the fuc am I getting these ideas from?

[woven grail]

Well, they do burn up.

[noble scarab]

The Phantom should still be alive, the man in the bow entries is a different dude with the same last name, maybe a relative

Bow 1

Bow 2

Gus LeRoux is the Phantom, this guy is Francis

[woven grail]

Yeah, so another alive dude.

The only one that seems to be extent is the black coat

[noble scarab]

Felis may also be dead, we don't know, but she at least got shot at in the Terminus lore

[fallow gorge]

For now, the only one we know for sure to be canonically dead is The Black Coat

[empty owl]

considering that she can turn into a cat thing i'd say she's still kicking

[noble scarab]

voodoo cat powers > gun

[jovial basin]

So, do felis and lulu know each other?

[noble scarab]

doubtful

they could have, I guess, Felis was in New Orleans for a time learning voodoo from the Bone Doc, so she could've crossed paths with Lulu

[wintry root]

Lulu likes cats and is a lesbian
Felis is a catgirl
They may have met

Felis x Lulu ship confirmed

[visual finch]

[wintry root]

R34 when?

[winter basalt]

We don't even know if she got hit, just shot at. All we (likely know) is that Jane (who were shooting at Felis) is most likely alive since she could tell the story to Carter. That insinuates that either Felis got killed by Jane or she managed to get away.

[winter basalt]

The rumors are that she's a shapeshifter. Nowhere it says she can turn into a cat spesifically, and again, they're only rumors and nothing more.

[jovial basin]

felis cat

[wintry root]

felis cat

[winter basalt]

[wintry root]

👌

[woven grail]

Félix the cat

[wintry root]

Felispost status

[woven grail]

Felisbros, we got cocky

[visual finch]

[wintry root]

can we just appreciate how painful non-magical shapeshifting would probably be

like, all of your nerves getting rearranged

shudders

[winter basalt]

@wintry root Yeah, as well with the twisting, reshaping, lengthening and shortening of every single bone in your body?

[wintry root]

that wouldn't really matter if your nerves weren't there to pick all of that up 😬

[noble scarab]

imagine your teeth rearranging themselves

[winter basalt]

I'm guessing you're not loosing your nerves while shape-shifting, so you would feel it all.

[wintry root]

your nerves would sense all the tissue and bones stretching and compressing, right?

[winter basalt]

Of course. That's kinda the reason children have growing pains from preschool age and up. The nerves are picking up on the stretching and growth of the bones.

[wintry root]

yeah, it'd probably be that but 10000x worse

[winter basalt]

Exactly my thought.

[wintry root]

she's probably on voodoo juice

[noble scarab]

in most folkloric transformations like werewolves, the process being painful is part of the curse

[wintry root]

never heard of that part before but it makes sense

[winter basalt]

Well, it do seem like the most sensible thing that when your body is transforming into a complete different shape within seconds and minutes, it's going to feel like going through hell.

[wintry root]

• provided you stay conscious
• provided you don't die of shock

[noble scarab]

thinking about it, its a bit weird that Felis is supposed to be a Voodoo shapeshifter, I'm not aware of any folklore that says Voodooists do that kinda thing. Shapeshifting is more of a Native American or European thing

[wintry root]

oh no, felisposting is gonna solve the lore

[tired spear]

my take on the matter (and i'm no lore expert) is that she's just hiding in bushes all the time and most of the hunters that survive only remember the cat skull

[winter basalt]

That's kinda why I think it's really nothing more than a rumor.

[tired spear]

and given that she's the Bone Doc's apprentice she's surrounded by mysticism already and then people just make wrong correlations

[wintry root]

If I was Felis, I would encourage that rumor as much as I could. Pays to have your enemies shit themselves on sight

[tired spear]

yeah absolutely

plus with Bone Doc being (rumored to be? can't remember if it's canon) able to to raise the dead, they're a fearsome duo

[noble scarab]

He's supposed to be able to, he at least yoinked the Revenant out of the ground

but the Revenant was also supposed to have been "guided" back by someone from the Night of the Hunter

[tired spear]

not even considering the fact that you're essentially forced to compact all your body mass in a tinier form

because matter doesn't just disappear like that

making felis the fattest cat evar, if she is actually able to shapeshift

[winter basalt]

Didn't even think of that. If she did shapeshifter, and to a smaller frame feline, it would probably be a very heavy cat

[tired spear]

yeah exactly

[noble scarab]

felis = chonk

[tired spear]

so i'd guess that if she were to actually shapeshift it'd be into a very big puma or something equivalent

something of equivalent mass

[noble scarab]

mountain lions are pretty big tbh

[winter basalt]

Someone must draw a chonky felis cat

[tired spear]

otherwise she'd just be unable to move because if her muscles are tinier for the same weight...

well

you get the idea

[tired spear]

omg yes

i'll draw that tonight lul

[tired spear]

aight back to cake

brb

[noble scarab]

alternatively

[winter basalt]

Yeah, but female cougars are still in the weight class og 29-64 kg, so they're not that big

In mass, compared to humans

[winter basalt]

Yesss!

[noble scarab]

quick crytek, we need Felis' height & weight so we can convert it to cat terms

[winter basalt]

[wintry root]

[woven grail]

Not exactly

The description says "guided by the chanting of the Night Speaker."

Not exactly the same

[noble scarab]

We don’t really know who the Night Speaker is, and only the Night of the Hunter uses that kind of naming conventions (night acolyte, night seer, etc) so I’d say it’s a safe assumption for them to be involved

Could also be a retcon on Cryteks part

[woven grail]

In my personal opinion, it must be something like a Loa.

Only because they didn't really mention the Night of the hunter in their weapons.

[noble scarab]

That’s fair, there are several Loa associated with crossroads

Papa Legba for example

[frank bobcat]

Moose are bigger 🧐

I want mega fauna opponents in hunt

[lime tide]

i dropped a felis with a scottfield today

it was great

also who's the widow whatever

[frank bobcat]

I'm a big hater of twitch and it's integration into hunt, I do get a solid degree of satisfaction every lola I burn out

[woven grail]

I hate twitch, I just stream in other places.

[rotund ferry]

It's American hunters association, the doctors group and who else?

[wintry root]

Lynch's group, the Voodoo community, the Sinners and others. Also the AHA splitered

[woven grail]

The night of the Hunter, The reverends men, Hardins group, The doctors men, I imagine Lynch kinda works alone and then everyone else kinda works independent like for example the twins

[wintry root]

Hardin and Lynch work together, right?

/coordinate?

[woven grail]

No

I think Lynch tried to assassinate Hardin through Huff

I tried to read more in depth and 1985 is a fuck up, to the point that Huff father wrote him a later basically telling him "Hey, buddy, I may think you should calm down"

[empty owl]

speaking of the father letters, is it actually depicted in game?

like the letters that the father sent not huff's responses

[woven grail]

Yeah.

Its there let me go to my archive

[lyric mauve]

How much like the zone from Stalker is the bayou (i don't know much about the lore what's the proper name for area)

[woven grail]

Well... There are no "Weird Events"

There are a few artifacts that gives powers (Traits)

People that want in and have clearance (AKA. Is a hunter) can go in or out.

There are no mutants, only infected people.

[tired spear]

i'd like to know if there's a canon explanation as to how Felis still hasn't poked one out of her eyes out with the cat teeth in front of her eyes

What kind of sorcery is this?

[winter basalt]

Well, the teeth are pretty far away from her face though.

[woven grail]

Well, she is a faceplant away for having something tore, but its a probability she is willing to take to look cool

[noble scarab]

The real question is how she manages to see with those teeth in her face and the semi blocked peripheral vision

[woven grail]

Cat reflexes

[woven grail]

Does anyone have Spark LRR Ammo RN?

[potent merlin]

Anyone mind sharing all the Vetterli entries? ❤️

[tired spear]

All of them? Or do you already have some that I don't need to share? Also, i'm missing the marksman, it's a terrible variant and i can't get myself to play it

[noble scarab]

The marksman and I think silencer were posted recently

Also marksman vetterli with scopesmith and HV ammo is pretty decent

https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/370142302196334593/932894531496591390/unknown.png

[winter basalt]

If Felis really were to be a shapeshifter. What would you propose she'd look like? Regular cat, mountain lion or other big cat? Something more unnatural or with some kind of resemblance to her human form?

[wintry root]

Big cat due to reasons discussed above. Namely the conservation of mass.

IE she is just a shapeshifter, she cnat change her weight. So it's logical she's change into an animal which natively grows roughly in her weight range

Otherwise she's be the most chonkers housecat ever and be unable to move

[winter basalt]

Yeah, I would think a mountain lion would be the most sensible choice.

I suddenly got too many ideas for comics, but now I struggle to make a feline form that fits my drawing style.. I'm not good with drawing cats 😅

[wintry root]

I hope you manage to get it

Because your drawings are amazing

Chibi mountain lion?

[winter basalt]

Thank you! Yes, that's what I'm trying to go for. It's not easy

[wintry root]

I can imagine making an intimidating animal in a chibi style kinda kconflicts with itself

[winter basalt]

Yes, either it becomes too cute or suddenly too realistic..

[potent merlin]

I got all the way up to the marksman, aye.

[tired spear]

finally. now i don't have to play that crappy variant anymore

[potent merlin]

I have however never read the silenced and bayonet ones.

[tired spear]

bayonet

silencer

[tired spear]

i believe she could be a jaguar, a mountain lion or maybe a panther (seeing as these can actually be very, very big)

plus a panther is native from north america from what i'm reading

[winter basalt]

Yes, the same with the mountain lion. Since it is the mountain lion that is mentioned in the lore with Felis, it might also make more sense to use that.

[quick spade]

Panther and Mountain Lion is the same species

[woven grail]

Someone got that here?

[ripe inlet]

@woven grail just ammo right?

[woven grail]

Yeah, thanks a lot

[tired spear]

Nope.
Mountain lions are cougars (puma concolor according to almighty wikipedia) while panthers are all of the "pantherinae" subfamily which contains the genera "panthera", and apparently black panthers are melanistic jaguars or leopards and (white panthers are also a thing, which i didn't know)

[dreamy mirage]

If I had an audio play/radio show script based off of the Lore of Hunt: Showdown and wanted an admin or high up person in this discord to review the material, who would or should I tag?

[wintry root]

good luck lol

you could just post it here and get the lore bois' opinion

but if you wanna make it official through Crytek, you're better off sensing some emails.

https://eu-shop.crytek.com/contact-us?controller=404

[dreamy mirage]

I'm really just interested in one of the lore boys, it's not going to be 100% accurate Because I wanted to have some freedoms of writing but if you or anyone you know are interested please let me know! We want to start producing it once it gets looked over

[wintry root]

sure, send a link!

we'd love to read through it

[dreamy mirage]

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1JCic8rhI9aKBtsWw5HDmMpbCyv7gmUDqMQ9bsj9k9H8/edit?usp=drivesdk

@wintry root let me know if that works or if I need to DM it directly. Either way I made some decisions to change a little bit from the game to make sense over story telling but lmk what you think

[wintry root]

Link works. hype.

Ey folks, you gotta read this.

P1 - "between the spring and winter of 1894", not 1884

will get back to it tomorrow, seems good so far

[noble scarab]

It’s good, I like it

[dreamy mirage]

Fixed it thanks bro and looking forward to hearing opinions! Appreciate all the help

[wintry root]

np

[winter basalt]

@dreamy mirage Nice work, I like it so far!

[rose cape]

this is the deepest lore i have seen since the goblin fiasco - nice work

[woven grail]

is it really good, But I am unsure if You want some lore boys to correct some wrong things or if you want to just take liberties and that is it. Its a good read eitherway.

[dreamy mirage]

@woven grail I'm willing to talk about some parts that may be able to be reworded or changed a bit to make it believable I guess?

Realistically I just want to make something that will bring non-gamers into the hunt Showdown universe along with trying to be somewhat genuine to the source material

[woven grail]

I just realized its 81 pages long, Gonna take me a while.

[dreamy mirage]

Hahaha yeaaaah I'm guessing it's going to be 12 for 13 episodes about 10-15 minutes each episode

Also if anyone has anything about the script that they maybe you just want to talk out of the lore channel you guys are all welcome to personally dming me

[woven grail]

Just a question, in which period is this happening ? Before or After the assassination of Huff?

For the feeling of the story it is after the infection but before everything went to shit.

I do think this is the kind of lore that Hunt would need, small stories that show how the world is.

Like for example:

NARRATOR: Doc, Alice, and EC walked over to a seedy man covered in mud. I don’t know what he had less of, Hair or teeth? He wore a pair of worn overalls and no shirt. Next to him was an AHA ferry. The Association designed a small steampowered flatboat to navigate the Bayou’s swampy marshes. The ferry resembled those large barges that moved up and down the Mississippi River. The deck sat maybe a foot above the waterline. The small enclosed cockpit was surrounded by 3 inch thick metal. Firing slots in the armor were placed strategically. The ferry looked like it was going to war. And it was. That ferryman had survived hundreds of trips into the plague ridden swamps and he did so by playing it safe.

I love this.

[noble scarab]

looks like its pre-huff assassination due to them discovering the Butcher for the 1st time

though we don't know really when Huff was killed, so it could be hard to tell

[woven grail]

Well, He was killed in the Second Half of 1895

[noble scarab]

I'd think it'd be spider -> butcher -> Huff killed -> Scrapbeak

[woven grail]

We know that much.

I know that because his last letter that is dated is June 1895

[noble scarab]

I think the current time in game is around 1896, in the spring, so scrapbeak showed up maybe like late fall, or sometime in the spring

so he mightve been killed that fall

[dreamy mirage]

So that's where it got real difficult with the timeline And setting up for future seasons. In my research I was under the impression that the Sculptor would find anomalies in the bayou then recreate instead of creating them out of thin air. It's why you could theoretically find multiple "butchers, Spiders, and Assassin's" I would then write the butcher to not be pig headed but maybe another unique feature

Also I had planted a seed in the story which will create a Spider boss to show up in later seasons. So that's where it get kinda fuzzy per say

[woven grail]

I have no idea if they are created out of thin air or otherwise.

The only thing I got is a phrase from Scragomiglio (Or however you write it) that says something like "The Sculptor changes to what he needs" so in my opinion he might grab several grunts and make a spider or make a Meathead into a butcher, or a bunch of insects into an assassin.

There are theories, but nothing really concrete about how the creatures come to be.

Other than the intial I mean

[dreamy mirage]

Yeah that is where it's been the most difficult I think for my writing because some areas are just so Gray. I kind of took the monster journals in the book as how the original was created or thought to be created, usually happen to be evolutions with the nature with the plague and maybe the sculptor saw what was created and continued to use that as a blueprint for future monsters? I really don't even know how intelligent the sculptor is from the lore as of right now

Just unique ideas that I came up with the kind of help with the plot holes

[woven grail]

My suggestion would be to leave it as gray as possible.

But eitherway

You write so good I would enjoy it eitherway

[dreamy mirage]

Yeah going to try and leave that open for interpretation, but that will probably give a little bit of a timeline issue if people want to be 100 % accurate from the lore. Just a difficult spot. I'm glad you enjoy it man! But that's why I asked for your help this conversation was important to me before we started production on the audio podcast

I also tried to throw in easter eggs for fans of Hunt: Showdown with certain legendary hunters appearing here and there. I wanted this to written by and for the Hunt: Showdown fans

[woven grail]

Oh, there is a production going on?

[dreamy mirage]

Well it's going to be a radio play so all the sound effects will come from the game and then we will have voice actors and a narrator to help bring the story to life

[noble scarab]

This is correct, you can also find grunts being turned into armored via cocoons and things. The Sculptor creates clones of things it finds and or makes

[dreamy mirage]

Appreciate the help Tib! Hope I find that happy medium that pleases everyone 😁 lmk if I make any major mistakes that would turn off fans

[woven grail]

We are literally the only ones that care about lore enough, don't worry.

I think we care even a little bit more than the devs but that is just pushing it, lol.

[dreamy mirage]

@woven grail lmk what you think when you finish it! Love to hear your opinions of season 1 as a whole also I need to proof read some of it forgot to change all of Edward into Docs when Narrator is speaking about the three of them

[woven grail]

Question that I didn't understand, Edward isn't a hunter right?

When digging on bodies of the infected, he should use protection as usually, you need little to transform into a grunt.

Like, I remember reading some initiates that weren't hunters yet stabbed a grunt to death and some blood fell on them and they transformed.

[dreamy mirage]

He is technically a hunter, hired by AHA for research he was. he was given the shot but not shown how to truly master the dark sight. Says a little later in the season I could refence that a little earlier if it's confusing

[drowsy canopy]

the only thing that really gets me is the Flashback Episode at Healing Waters

[woven grail]

Sure then its ok then.

[drowsy canopy]

since its well enough written but also Healing Waters is the church Gird is from...

[dreamy mirage]

Ah shit good point Blind.

[drowsy canopy]

so wrong Reverend but I like the way you incorporated the Phantom

[dreamy mirage]

Could always have Gird leave the church to cleanse the land and leave it to the Pastor to take charge of his flock? Any other ideas?

[drowsy canopy]

I say you leave the Phantom flashback for Madonna Noire when you get there

and do a Gird flashback for that episode instead

especially since Gird is already written, can do a real good scene with him snatching his Lebel from the mantel and laying into the grunts storming the chapel

[dreamy mirage]

The question with Girds story line is doesn't he supposedly become an immolator? And one thing I've tried to stay away from is the actual stories the creators wrote. I allude to them but trying not to get struck with copyright infringement hahaha you do bring up a very valid point though

[drowsy canopy]

he is alive at the time of writing or so it appears, being mentioned by name along with his fanatics,

[dreamy mirage]

Yeah that's kinda one story line I was going to rewrite due to a future conflict with his fantastical band and the three characters. But from the lore was I right assuming he became an immolator?

[drowsy canopy]

there is implications he did whenever he finally died

from the Light the Shadow Trailer

never directly said

it is known however if he did turn he did it after Huff's death

[woven grail]

The immolator is another priest

[dreamy mirage]

Yeah yeah. He could turn in a future season. See Blind this is why I appreciate you guys. This is good for me to think all of this stuff through. Girds church story is under which excerpt in the game?

[woven grail]

The only Person we know for sure is dead and is also a legendary is the Black Coat

[drowsy canopy]

his Legendary Hunter Description and the Altar Boy Legendary Description

[woven grail]

And even then we are not 100% sure because the one that told the story is a bullshiter.

[drowsy canopy]

the note for him being alive by Huff's death is in the Nagant lore book entries where it is recounted by a member of Hardin's posse that Huff's death has caused the religious factions of the AHA to begin murdering each other

[woven grail]

You should also remember that one thing about Hunt storytelling is that the Narrator can be unreliable.

[woven grail]

Yeah, that is one of the most informative letters.

[dreamy mirage]

Awesome! Let me read it and try to repair that plot hole

[woven grail]

Which one you need?

Its on the Nagnant and Nagnant Office Lore

its 9 letters but the ones that are relevant are on the officer.

I think this one is the one that mentions Gird

This is right after Huffs death so they just started to go full civil war.

Before that I guess they would just kill each other for the bounty, right now its actually a bit worse.

[drowsy canopy]

excellent letter by the way, since it matches the entries from the Hive lore book

gives both legitimacy

[woven grail]

I am sad that its incomplete

But it says a lot.

I am sad this is also my favorite letter

[dreamy mirage]

Anyway we could chat in an audio channel? I'd love to hash this stuff out in there lol

[woven grail]

Probably tomorrow Today I got Rp to do.

Well atleast me

[dreamy mirage]

Ok I'm cool with that. I appreciate the help and probably will give some of you shout outs in the original credits for the audio play I'll just use discord names

[noble scarab]

We do have the older lore entries as a pinned post somewhere and a few of the custom ammo

its a pain to try to remember what goes with what tho

another cool distinction you could mention is that your protagonist was maybe only given the herbal serum, which is the older and less magical of the serums. it doesn't prevent conception or grant access to dark sight.

[drowsy canopy]

yeah the herbal serum versus the demon blood/Lynch's serum is a big point

[dreamy mirage]

I like that Tib! That could be why Doc can't use the sight.

[woven grail]

I still can't find anything about the herbal serum.

[drowsy canopy]

I am curious how you are going to cover some of the more supernatural abilities some Hunters have because of it

[drowsy canopy]

Romero Entries

[noble scarab]

it protects against the corruption just fine and probably grants some of the healing properties, but you don't gain the supernatural abilities

[drowsy canopy]

literally has a guy gather up a bunch of herbs and boil them into a inoculation to protect from the plague

[woven grail]

Oh I never finished those

Its the one about Glanton

I heard that name before

[noble scarab]

i have most of the romero entires unlocked i think, so let me know if we need any

[woven grail]

They are in the wiki

But

[noble scarab]

do we have glantons gun in the game as a legendary? i feel like we do, right?

[woven grail]

Didn't Glanton transform into a monster?

[drowsy canopy]

oh that reminds me @dreamy mirage at one point, the Alice incorrectly IDs Edward's Caldwell Rival as a Romero is that intentional?

[woven grail]

Or is it more of a figurative monster rather than a Literal one?

[dreamy mirage]

Nope definitely rewrote that part to be a Caldwell and missed it lol

[noble scarab]

i'm thinking it was figurative, though he might be more corrupted than most

[dreamy mirage]

Ok I got it. Gird will be present at the church scene which ties in the backstory with my story. Agnor will be a Curate to Gird which is a helper to the priest. He will be sleeping with the church members under Girds nose. Gird will be left at the church while it is over run. His wears abouts are unknown except for the teasing phrase of Girds fanatic group in episode 1 or 2

[drowsy canopy]

that works real well

[dreamy mirage]

Church scene has been reworked. It is late so i am going to proof read it tomorrow.

[lofty quarry]

Okay this is a weird theory. Unless there is somewhere in the lore for where the virus originated, could it have been Kingsnake Mine? In the song on the new Sinners Songbook album, the song "Rabbit in the Mine" says that

"He says he found the answer
Way down in King Snake mine
You stay down there too long, you'll be
The rabbit in the mine"

Thoughts?

[earnest jungle]

Based on the Vetterli lore the outbreak was in full swing by the time it hit DeSalle

What I think it points at is that the sculptor is a chthonic entity and the sculptor’s realm is some kind of “underworld.”

[woven grail]

Yeah, it sounds a lot like a metaphor, And I think it may be a song about not trusting people.

Probably

[lofty quarry]

Yeah this definitely one of the ways I imagined it going. I just find it so weird that it was such a big name drop like that. Perhaps one day we will know where it came from. Maybe a new mutation in the future with a time jump.

[woven grail]

Kept reading, In the part they talk about the cerebellum, Its not really about the lore but they Edward acts like he discovered the cerebelum while since the start of the 19th century they have been testing on it and discovering its functions, although its not really an organ that makes you die if they take it away, it is the one that helps you with equilibrium and walking, you can still do it, but you will do it far more akwardly without it.

Grabbing animals with total disregard of their safety is peak 1800 science.

[woven grail]

Do you know which one was first?

[quasi crow]

burning hunters bodies is actually part of the lore? that's neat.

Does anyone know what these symbols mean or what they are? They kinda look voodoo-esque.

[noble scarab]

probably voodoo or some kind of superstition

[dreamy mirage]

@woven grail I'll have the small cord attach through the spinal cord and enter the cerebellum. I like that idea. The spinal cord functions weren't discovered by the time of the outbreak so that's why I had to make that part sound like a hypothesis.

[woven grail]

Oh, I remember that there could have been a mountain of hands as an enemy.

Kinda cool.

[noble scarab]

always interesting that grunts seem to have animate body parts after death

wonder if the ones we kill in game stay dead

like lorewise

[drowsy canopy]

considering how many of them their are, they aren't likely staying dead... Sculptor already makes as many as he needs I have no doubt he also recycles his lesser forms

[woven grail]

Oh Also, I dunno if you wanted but there are a few times it says Winchester instead of Winfeld.

[woven grail]

Also, I think the one that Killed Huff was probably Victor Caldwell. I Think I discovered the mystery.

[wintry root]

Go on?

[woven grail]

Well its circumstantial, But Caldwell, attacked the association, its the only person that had a real reason to kill huff, And his dead although it can't be pinpointed with accuracy it is the next thing in the masteries that can be read
We don't know the motive, but he obviously had one, he was never cought, Everyone else didn't know he was there, so the others wouldn't have thought about it and finally the second murder with the Dolch

Which we don't know that much really. But there might be a relation.

Who knows

One thing for sure, Victor Caldwell knows how to use a gun.

He killed 11 hunters with a Sparks and injured 3

Lynch already had Huff by the balls and I find that the one that wrote As Bad as they seem, seems to be missing that Nellie Crown should be either with an injury or dead

[rotund ferry]

Lynch was the girl with the machete in the machetes lore correct who killed a bunch of people?

[woven grail]

Yes

Allegedly

[rotund ferry]

And what skin is Lynch in game?

[wintry root]

That hooded skin that had a massive jaw?

That is also the wiki background?

[wintry root]

Lynch already had Huff by the balls

Lynch dommy mommy confirmed

[woven grail]

Lynch said OwO what's this. And Huff complies.

[wintry root]

[marsh crest]

From what I've read in the lore, Huff kinda seems like a huge asshole.

[wintry root]

He is

He killed kids

[woven grail]

That is Hardin

Huff still is a huge asshole tho.

And he had his death like coming for him.

The last year of his tenure as leader of the AHA is a clusterfuck of terrible decisions one after the other, and I am compiling it.

[dreamy mirage]

Nope that's good typo awareness. I'll skim through and find those thanks Doc.

[wintry root]

My bad

[fallow gorge]

Seems they're the one's who encountered and save the girl from the hives

[dreamy mirage]

@woven grail I made sure all Winchesters have been replaced to Winfields lol and I made some small edits through out the script as I reworked the church scene. If you downloaded the file and are reading it, it may not show the changes. If you are reading from the Google docs file I'm guessing it should change when I change it. Can you let me know if the edits worked?

[ripe inlet]

Just want to ask how many good guys we have in hunt? Named ones.

[mighty lintel]

Carter, Prodigal Daughter, The Researcher, the Archeologist, and Marshal Brewer are the ones that pop onto my head as “morally good”. The Reverend means well but he’s a bit looney.

[wintry root]

there are also folks squarely in the "we don't know" category

[mighty lintel]

Or the people who mean well but have really really evil ways of going about it like Hardin, Lynch and The Bone Doctor. And then straight up evil like Monroe or The Night Seer

[winter basalt]

What evil do we know the Bone Doctor have done?

[wintry root]

Voodoo. And probably killing people over spreading rumors about him

(At least that's what the store tab bio seems to imply)

[winter basalt]

Well, is voodoo per definition evil in itself? I must admit I do not know much of voodoo except of being a religion somewhere in Africa. But we don't really know if he actually done any acts of evil or if that's just rumors spread by others.

[wintry root]

Mostly just rumors

Voodoo isn't evil afaik

But it seems to be perceived as such by some groups of hunters

[mighty lintel]

His cult is also a faction within the bayou. I don’t think he is evil and he means well. His description implies him to have murdered men over rumors and thus he isn’t all good like the other characters I’ve mentioned.

[winter basalt]

Is there any lore on the Bone Doctor in the Book of weapons? All I could find in the trials are that he prefer to use the bones of Hives in his works. And that some other apprentice of the Bone Doctor gave the cult a bad rep for screwing up and having Felis clean it up.

We also have this:

[icy brook]

Yeah voodoo seems to just be another cultural understand and method of manipulating elements of the other realm

[noble scarab]

Lynch is pretty solidly bad IMO, she skins people alive and is some kind of Otherworldy entity herself. We also don’t know if Monroe is evil, he might just be kinda nuts. All he’s done far as we know is escape the asylum and then become a Hunter

Lynch also pretty much just had a grudge against the Sculptor, so it might be an enemy of my enemy kinda thing going on, who’s to say she wouldn’t try to cause an invasion once the Sculptor is out of the way?

[mighty lintel]

Fair enough but for now she’s helped the AHA with the serum and is trying to rid the sculptor so she’s one of those cases of both ways like Hardin

[noble scarab]

The Sinners are another group that’s probably in the more or less good category. They’re just there to cleanse the bayou. It’d be cool to have a Hunter from their group at some point

Cause I think we have a Hunter from every other faction, especially now that we have Native American ones

[mighty lintel]

Which hunter is from the Sinners again?

[noble scarab]

There isn’t one that’s playable far I know. In lore we know John Voekel (?) is one and Scognamiglio

[mighty lintel]

Ah yeah

[woven grail]

Well Lynch is allegedly bad, BUt, all we know about lynch is from a single person that seems to hate both lynch and Huff

[noble scarab]

That's true, but its kinda all we got to go on about her. Her and Hardin got along, which means she can't have been that good

[woven grail]

Well... Kinda

They probably had a falling out.

[noble scarab]

i think that came after the point Lynch decided Hardin was doing too good at managing the invasion

which is kinda strange since you'd think she'd want the Sculptor stopped because of her grudge

[woven grail]

This letter is the one right before Huff died, so I am assuming its between February and June.

Probably more like May and June.

of 1895

[mighty lintel]

So the twins on orders of Lynch shot Huff right

[woven grail]

Well, we don't know

[mighty lintel]

Making sure my brain is making the right connections

[woven grail]

There are atleast like 5 versions of it

Well probably close to 3

First Version: Lynch slit his throat.
Second Version: The Twins Shot them from the Window Pane
Third my headcanon: VC shot him through the window Pane.

[mighty lintel]

VC?

[woven grail]

Victor Caldwell.

The guy that created all those guns, yes

[mighty lintel]

Yeah