#loop

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supple onyx
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What do you want from loop? Discuss here.

paper moat
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Not a "you die now" mode like in S1

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After 1 loop of the game I can see it being that

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I think the first loop should be more like a much harder rerun

ionic violet
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Maybe something like a change of rules / approach to game? not sure if it wouldn't be too much work programming wise:

  • not buffing opponents / slowing player just because of loop
  • droping basic pistol
  • additional attachment slot for weapons / ability to boost their stats by using kits
  • weapon will reload only upon hitting active reload (adding the wider area for not perfect reload like in S1)
  • changing weapon takes time now
  • timer to clean each level after which enemies will rush your position
  • harder alert level spawns (but telegraphed much better as now they often comes from places I didn't expect them to be)
  • mirror reversed maps / top down reversed (something like hotline Miami hard mode)
  • much more severe slowdown on moving backwards to hinder kiting strategy
  • Hard 90 deg shield on some enemies that drastically reduces damage and requires to flank them
civic surge
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Only you can prolong your life span

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I think S1 was handling loops pretty well. An infinite run does not sound like fun at all. Itā€™s better to have something that can test just how broken your build actually is until your character ā€œretiresā€. It does not need to have the same penalties as S1, just the general idea that the each step you take is harder and harder to make alive, imho.

neat snow
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2 difficulty of loops could be interesting, with the ability to choose each time.

An easier mode, for when you just want to play longer, being a bit more difficult than regular.

And an harder mode, closer to S1.
If you manage to beat the loop again, you can once again choose.

Another Idea is that RNG is more extreme for chests and such. There is a higher chance of higher rarities, of cursed chests etc. But also from the Russian roulette that you take damage, stuff like that.
Basically, less common stuff happens and more extremes of both ends do

civic surge
formal pond
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no loop

serene ruin
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I think the difficulty was fine in S1, but you also kinda never struggled with anything and always annihilated crowds of enemies like a lvl 99 ARPG character since by this point you'd have every conceivable upgrade and tool.

Introduce some risk - damage reflecting enemies (that can reflect 100%/200%/even 1000% damage), significantly improved AI reaction times (think near wallhack), extended range for AI abilities like mortars and grenades, highly resistant enemies, and so on.

Another thing is that loop discourages experimentation. You already have all the guns you could want, and there's rarely any reason to pick up another weapon. To solve that, crank up the drop rates to 11 in loop so every chest is a luxury red/divine item - make them worthwhile. Reduce spawn rate of chests themselves, increase quality significantly.

Weapon upgrades should also be infinite (even if diminishing returns), but I'm sure that's been suggested a million times already. I've noticed that weapon balance is a lot better in S2 and its much rarer to find a gun that was ruined by rng and became unusable even if the base is good.

formal pond
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damage reflecting enemies should never be added

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just in general

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they're unfun as all fuck

serene ruin
formal pond
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they exist in the game already

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I don't want any additional source of that shit

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also the drop rates thing r already biased towards better later but most of the higher rarity items with some exceptions are just worse than low rarity ones

serene ruin
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the fat ballbots yeah but they don't really do anything, i've found i'm just face tanking it with shield or dodge, and loop needs some kind of additional challenge beyond the base game

formal pond
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I'm playing on 200% and die if I hit one with any DoT source

serene ruin
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you can pretend i never mentioned damage reflection if you want šŸ˜Š

formal pond
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imo the bias shouldn't be around higher rariity items but the upgrade stations/weapon upgrade boxes being more common

serene ruin
formal pond
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I'm also not a fan of infinite scaling in any game

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I think it removes distinctness of weapons

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see it is intended

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so any enemy with it would be untouchable if you say, used the kago or acid pistol

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you'd just be out a slot with acid pistol if they were common

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I mean it's already the worst performer imo

serene ruin
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this goes back to phasers in S1

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lots of classes have to commit an entire slot or an item to dealing with them

formal pond
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my struggle wasn't with their gimmick usually but with the fact that they're among the hardest hitting enemies in the game

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I wish that they couldn't be hit with explosives

glacial arch
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even while kiting the player u can just stand in front of them and the shots wont u reach u (which is fine in pre armageddon)
not after

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loop shouldnt dramatically reduce healing.

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also entering loop should give another class upgrade

glacial arch
formal pond
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yea

keen robin
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I would love rare things spawning more often in loops, along with upgrade stations.

upbeat field
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Put the prototype/incomplete levels into the loop ā¤ļø

supple onyx
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Loop is now live on the U12 branch

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try the new loop
Loop right now starts from the start again, but enemies are much harder and faster etc etc
They also have a charge on engaging and an enrage if they stay alive for 15 seconds (maybe its too generous right now)
You get similar loot but this needs tuning, later ill do completely separate loop loot tuning and maybe some loop specific things

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We havent gotten there too much recently but feels cool so far but surely needs feedback and tuning

supple onyx
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anyone tried loop?

tawdry heath
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Haven't made it yet

stiff brook
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i will test it later after my wows tournament

supple onyx
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I found an issue in the loop buff which might make some things break on some enemies, fixed in the next version

lime schooner
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Loop feels good, though in the level after the 1st boss in the loop enemies suddenly stopped taking any damage whatsoever

civic surge
formal pond
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had an issue with enemy regen, I was using a really good gun but a single elite 1 bot was able to withstand like 4 mags of it

gilded leaf
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I could see a 'rival evolution' on each loop similar to class evolution, where you choose a buff to enemies for the rest of the run

civic surge
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In 2/2 times the loop is unplayable in coop. The very first floor enemies suddenly stop getting damage. Have not tried single player yet

gilded leaf
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loop seems to work fine in sp

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about to start a loop now

lime schooner
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any target that cant be headshot takes FOREVER to kill

civic surge
formal pond
gilded leaf
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it does feel a bit spongy

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I was magdumping a machine-gun and sometimes still didn't kill some especially spongy targets

gilded leaf
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My idea for loop is for an enemy evolution, so when you beat the last defender, you get an evolution chest, BUT you're forced to evolve enemies as well.

hot needle
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Does #riotguard message mean loop was supposed to have half the enemy health regen?

supple onyx
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they were supposed to get 150 + 50% but due to healing gain +100% they had 350 which was extremely high, not sure if that is the unkillable issue or there were two

hot needle
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#enemy-issues message looks like health doesn't ever go down(or I'm blind), so there might be separate issue, but a change in this after some time sounds like the combat enrage kicking in which IIRC is +200 regen.

supple onyx
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yeah I think there are 2 issues

eternal gull
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Can we have an unlockable mode where we can start from the loop after beating LD first time once the loop feature all levels?

civic surge
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I assume the idea is that loop will be ā€œloopingā€ each time you defend LD, so enemies will get stronger and stronger. So, it does not make sense to have a loop modifier, imho

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Loop is meant to be a run ending difficulty spike

eternal gull
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Hmm

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But I mean once we kill LD we could use that as proof of ready for difficulty spike or smth since by the time we get loop we have upgraded guns to counter it

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If we could start loop mode with pistol and kit gun with no upgrades along with no perk/skill upgrades

timber anchor
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all I want from loop is the ability to play the game forever with all of my shit perpetually stacking and enemies that scale enough that I don't start one shotting everything with my lowest amount of damage

supple onyx
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loop is fixed now so try it

valid yew
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i got to the loop lvl 8 or 10 (killed same boss like 3 times) and i hate this "red fog" not only it kills my fps (i got stable 60 while not in a loop)i also cant see shit in it. i was shooting wall cuz i just cant see a thing. also there is nowhere to spend credits and upgrade kits.

civic surge
supple onyx
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damn

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definitely doing some more loop tweaking

civic surge
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Not sure if it is intentional or just my luck, but I only got 1 item/ability upgrade shop in the very first loop level and never again until mid-tundra (where I skill-issued). U was mostly getting weapon shops (which are useless). Not a single item/tinkerer/medical/black market/gambling shop

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Is it supposed to be like that? I ended up with 10k currency in the end

civic surge
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Otherwise, loop works pretty well. Love it!

paper moat
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Loop dogs are reminding me of U5 dogs

paper moat
glacial arch
main thicket
tawny copper
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kinda ripping off nuclear throne here, but i think there should be enemy types that are exclusive to loops

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something that gives you an incentive to go deeper into the unknown

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scary anomalies to fit the anomalous circumstances

stiff brook
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i love that idea

neat snow
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Unique enemies for loop would be cool. Anomalous enemies makes me think of amalgamations tbh, like enemies getting properties and traits of others. Teleporting doombas, dogs with a healing aura etc

storm stratus
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loop specific mini bosses and enemies would be great, yeah

unique mirage
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My ideal loop would be something like

  • More increased cursed items/weapons, Zir shrines, etc.
  • Enemies unique to Loop like bones suggested. Even if it was just some wacky variants of normal enemies with new abilities/attacks I'd be happy
  • I actually think the current "Fight LD twice" bug could be cool if implemented properly. Something like "After beating LD, you can either choose to start Loop immediately or fight him again and jump straight to Loop 2, fight him a third time and skip to Loop 3, etc. Of course the LD would be at the level of the Loop you're trying to skip (So to jump to Loop 2 you have to fight Loop 1 LD, to jump to Loop 3 you have to fight Loop 2 LD, etc.) and I can't imagine that'd be fun to program but it sounds cool and could let sufficiently powerful builds skip a few Loops to get to a real challenge quicker.
  • A higher quantity of enemies on Loop. In my own experience, the actual number of enemies doesn't seem to increase from normal and they just get tougher. By Loop 3 or 4 every single enemy without fail is an Elite which just makes them all spongey and comes with the rather funny side affect of giving you a trillion upgrade kits. Just having even 2x the enemies would be cool.
  • Maybe some Loop exclusive shops that let you trade all those excess upgrade kits for something that actually benefits you. Cool as it is to have 100 upgrade kits at the end of the run I can't help but feel like that's wasted potential.
stiff brook
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Loop specific abilities of the enemies and bosses to give the gameplay some new twist instead of just ramping up speed and damage and tankyness.

Upon loop Spawn the shrines from S1 where u can do certain sacrifices

storm stratus
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Don't know if this has been suggested already but you should be able to drop your starting weapon in loop

burnt gyro
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I'd like to see that roguelite mechanic where you select your path for next floors. In case of S2 it may be selecting which buffs and debuffs you and enemies will have since next level as well as additional rewards and new types of enemies and bosses.

civic surge
velvet mortar
# neat snow 2 difficulty of loops could be interesting, with the ability to choose each time...

Extending on this because I think there's some cool ideas here. It'd be really interesting if you finished a run and came across a Shrine of Zir, which would give you a couple of options to 'enhance' the run. Usually those Blessings just do some stuff to your character, but maybe it's something like "all enemies are now melee enemies, and also there's 3x more enemies overall".

Otherwise I feel like loop really ends up in a situation where, yeah, it's just about confirming that you've got a super powerful build and everyone dies to you. Cool and all, but you'll inevitably grow bored.

velvet mortar
civic surge
storm stratus
civic surge
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Yeah, I same. It shouldn't be loop unique though as it was in S1. Unless Shrike wants to change what the loop means

civic surge
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Is loop limited to 10 stacks for now?

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Also, love the hell's bath water:

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formal pond
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visibly 10 tho

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loop stacks do not correctly apply

burnt gyro
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oh, and totally forgot, remove that stupid shaders in loop.. it's eyeburning af

glacial arch
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true theres some filter applied that looks very weird

civic surge
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In coop loop, even the most basic enemies are very tanky. Feels like there should be different loop scaling in coop

storm stratus
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As you said, the moment you get to second level of loop no matter the dif or esc, even normal non elite enemies become impossible to kill. Out of 10 times we have gotten to loop in coop, we have been killed in the first few seconds of the second stage every single time

supple onyx
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ill check

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the sharpening is a bit too much also yeah

deep dew
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yeah loop seems fun in solo but cant seem to enjoy it in coop as a few times now one player has got a power gap due to rng and can no longer kill anything before it heals, even the basic bois.

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also personally not a fan of being nerfed + buffing enemies but w/e, normally like my endless games just scaling the bad guys while you try to match it but again its w/e

unique mirage
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Same

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I think I actually enjoyed Loop a lot more when the debuff wasnā€™t properly applying

near saddle
unique mirage
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Felt like the gap between ā€œStrong enough to beat LDā€ and ā€œStrong enough to beat floor 2 of Loopā€ wasnā€™t lightyears across

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I do think that without the debuff Loop was defo too easy, like you could realistically just Loop infinitely with relative ease with a moderately good build

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But with the debuff it feels like a bit too big a spike for me

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Even just Loopā€™s increased elites, movement speed, and damage with increased enemy density and maybe a debuff every boss would be nice

near saddle
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From loop I only want that if healing gets reduced, it caps at something like 50% and the debuff is calculated after your total healing.
s1 loop had a big discrepancy between cautious classes carrying on as usual and aggro classes needing to either become very cautious or build a very specific lifesteal build

unique mirage
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Same

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A good RG build can go from ā€œStrong but still vulnerableā€ to ā€œIf you donā€™t spam Methadone you explodeā€

agile wadi
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losing movement speed felt awful

stiff brook
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ohh yes

agile wadi
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even if losing movement speed made the game harder, it still takes away autonomy and feels shit

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especially in loop where you can just get out movespeed-stat'd by enemies and there's no guaranteed way to increase movespeed

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I'm ok with healing getting slashed (even though it unfairly hit RG the most) since it forces you to play differently but I want to at least be able to move away from the murder squads present every few feet

serene ruin
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going from a breacher/Frontpig demo to Sniper feels like dogshit in terms of how sluggish your character feels

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whenever im playing on Heavy gunner or Riot guard I always get at least 1-2 speed upgrades, some bosses can be extremely difficult for slow classes too because there's simply no time

agile wadi
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bosses in s1 have their speed based on your movespeed stat

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I'm talking about how losing movespeed every loop cycle just isn't fun especially when movespeed upgrades are never guaranteed each loop

ancient bough
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Loop needs more shops/items/loot. I had a run that went really well and didnt see a shop until maybe floor 4 of loop, and they were carrying tier 3 weapons. I was really looking to replace my own fully upgraded tier 3 at that point and had more than enough upgrade kits, and also credits waiting in bank to spend on item/ability upgrades.

civic surge
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Was playing 200 loop when a Reinforced Turret blown me away so fast (5 shots) that half of my projectiles still connected after my death

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storm stratus
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Would still very much love a fix to making enemies killable past the first stage of loop in coop šŸ™

north heron
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Loop debuffs don't seem to activate or be meaningful. Kill currency may be affected, but it seems recycling still gave the normal amount 2k currency is basically the norm for the last stages of pre-loop, and this is apparently when I have 10 stacks of the currency debuff.

Also, although I really liked Incubus this update, it seems a bit overtuned when I'm was literally just walking into enemies and popping from 500 health back to 3k in an instant. I could also just do things like in the video to farm health back.

feral plover
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Extra attachment for weapons would be nice. I find the game at its best when you can still customize your build and get stronger.

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Also, the red filter feels a bit too pronounced. I don't mind that it affects visibility, but I hate that it makes the game look worse.

image.png
supple onyx
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ill see about the loop scaling thinmg, its a bit hard to test, remind me in beta in case i forgot

inland thorn
civic surge
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Or if more weapon attachments ainā€™t an option, allow converting 5 kits into body core upgrade kit

cedar hemlock
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  • Rainbow Road from S1
  • Reset all weapon upgrades but start out with an ultra variant reroll on each you have equipped (including starter pistol)
  • If you already have an ultra variant on a weapon, get a divine reroll
civic surge
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I think increasing base stats or giving a second variant on top of existing one will be better. If you already have divine, you are kinda at disadvantage already. Besides, people can go further the the first loop

honest musk
# storm stratus Would still very much love a fix to making enemies killable past the first stage...

coop is literally unplayable in the loop especially when mixing certain items and classes (like the ones that can kill your teammates). enemies are so strong and fast, it makes surviving 1st level of the loop something impossible with 3-4 players. Also, we haven't seen any upgrade stations, weapon crates, shops, in the loop.. and upgrade kits are really useless. at least give the ability to convert them in something usefull or simply add small buffs on already maxed out weapons. loops would be cool for a longer runs where everyboy are satisfied with the build but just want to play longer and push for even more end game gear. like, often I get to the loop in coop with 1 underpowered weapon, overpowered (overbuffed by me) ability and 1-2 items, because we all sell low tier items to buy ability upgrades. it just gets boring at some point, and then comes one shots, when you literally die from anything, get "trauma team" spawned, and your friends are literally f..d up because they will almost never able to res u due to the speed and damage of the enemies. as if getting health damaged on revive and almost non existent life regen in the game is not enough. even on 75-100 diff, it's impossible for us to beat first biome 2+ players. not to mention we only beat 1st biome once, playing together, having really OP weapons and good rolls on everything. Want to be able to pass the game twice at least, in the loop. Maybe it will be good to add some rarer enemy variants and increase their amount but decrease their speed and scaling to help with constant one-shots and extreme amounts of deaths / get new enemies beause u died / rinse and repeat / die

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also, dark level (blackout one) is a nightmare in coop. we get so many teamkills...

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would be great to have a modifier with "no teamkill" damage. we have some really low-level players who constantly kills us in the back, or with their abilities. but we still want to play with them šŸ™‚ you can make it like this "no friend fire, but you don't get any class xp / resources" that would be perfect for us trying new builds. some stuffs are impossible to try in coop like the laser discs or sometimes I can one shot 3 people with unlucky tomahawk 2 screens away in the middle of the battle because they curved into my guys trying to get some ammo and me running from the wave of enemies

agile wadi
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friendly fire is as integral to the synthetik experience as active reload

stiff brook
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Give a modifier for extra friendly fire damage that also buffs all player damage so a better organized team is strongly rewarded

honest musk
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it's just a modifier for friends to have fun together, especially for those who are 50+ and their brains are too old for quick reactional thinking. we have 31,36,50,53 y/old team and it's hard for older folks to keep up to the pace where everything is blowing up every second. hence the request for a setting that will disable any outcome valuables/xp in order to be able to just play around that mechanic

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if you miss active reload it's not game breaking. when you get killed by an older dumber bro who doesn't know how to use his ability it's another thing

stiff brook
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Alright fair enough

storm stratus
honest musk
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yeah.. sadly my older bros are very, very bad at the game but always want to play with us šŸ˜†

marsh shadow
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It would be funny to meet, for example:

  • a sudden squad of chrono-soldiers who went after the player precisely because he fell into a loop (additional monologues of soldiers and voice acting)
  • story chrono-shift: some enemies or bosses may have fragmented memories of the player. Just for the atmosphere
  • the remains of bodies of other versions of the player in loops, as was the case in Returnal. Possibly with loot. Several units of loot can give something. Data points at a minimum (but this is not enough).
  • the ability to find a hidden boss in the loop, a copy of the player, and fight him
  • modified versions of bosses (like hades model)
  • rooms with unique abilities/items, opened in loops only for keys collected previously
  • additional motivation to use new weapons in loops
  • extraction: the opportunity to somehow earn an exit from the loop on winning terms by surviving several waves of enemy chrono-soldiers and forcibly disappearing from the loop after a while (if you wish, activate the exit quest at any time, otherwise continue moving)
  • information about how many levels and loops were completed on the winordie screen
  • a flashlight as a separate item that can be found on a darkened level
    ... last one is a joke. But maybe not šŸ˜›
marsh shadow
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Maybe chrono points, collected in different playthroughs for a character (which are very hard to earn), which can be spent during the game to instantly get one loop forward (it's as if the player has fast-forwarded time). Then the player would have the ability to dramatically increase the resistance level and easily explore the possibilities of the loops in case you add really a lot of content to the loops.

supple onyx
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Anyone knows exactly whats the issue in coop loop? Im gone a couple days

glacial arch
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@storm stratus

storm stratus
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I have been summoned. Loop in coop is fugged on any escalation, any difficulty %. Typically the first level is doable, but the scaling gets super fucked when you get into the second level.

I think it correlates with terror level? Because the loop debuff applies correctly, I just think personally the regen and health scaling from terror level is not working as intended

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You can have 20k credits dumped into a single upgrade and enemies will still outheal and out sustain your damage. They will also instantly one tap you, which I donā€™t really have a problem with, but I donā€™t think high rate of fire stuff (like turrets) should be doing 1800dmg per bullet

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Itā€™s been this way for my friend and I since loop was introduced, as we really only play coop on this game. Loop actuslly seems to work fine in single player though, like stuff is actually killable and Iā€™ve gotten to LD before

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But yeah, I think the biggest thing is that something, some mechanic or interaction is just turning them into unkillable sponges. Iā€™ve seen screenshots of people getting far into loop on coop, but theyā€™re always bug abusing when they do get that far

hot needle
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Since when does terrorlevel grant regen?
The max health increase can be bugged or somehow too big(despite having been decreased in the past both per level and indirectly by delaying terror), but the regen has to be caused by something else.

storm stratus
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Is regen not increased with terror level? I thought it was max health + regen + armor for each terror level increase

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I will say though that we did do runs purposely trying to not increase terror level, and even with only 4-5 itā€™s still unplayable in loop so idk if it is actually terror level that is doing it

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I guess I just donā€™t know what else could possibly be buffing them that much, because like I said Iā€™ll do solo runs sometimes too and even with 9+ terror level I can still get past loops rooms

storm stratus
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Iā€™ll have to do some more runs tonight and hover enemy health as soon as we get into loop and double check

hot needle
paper moat
upbeat field
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Loving it so far

glacial arch
golden spire
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Would love to have exclusive guns that will only show up in the loop selection of the bunch (and intend to be OP as fuck) like a, glitched rarity. but that also means loop needs a thematic expansion so I think its a would be fun but unnecessary, but still would be fun.

upbeat field
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Alright listen to this idea

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High level loop (2nd cycle and further)

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Spawns S1 enemies

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With S1 weapons, behavior and sprites (they are pseudo-3D)

glacial arch
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if u want s1 in unity might as well have a game modifier

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than locking it behind X loop level

upbeat field
supple onyx
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Im changing the loop debuff, before it was intended that you get another buff every full loop I think but there was only one

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now im adding 100 stacks and changing the stats, no more max shield reduction and general action reduction but item and ability reduction which is more stable

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also summons need some solution so for now they will take 10% more damage every second

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however this starts at 4 seconds

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right now if you reach 10 stacks you can be above the power curve

stiff brook
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Hmm interesting

supple onyx
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also I dont want people to feel forced to loop forever

stiff brook
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Tho will there be a cap of the debuffs to prevent u abilities /items to go negative?

supple onyx
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also I like the simplicity of loop stacks go up

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this is not possible right now which is a bit of an issue

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but since items have extra power they could never go really low for your main items

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I cannot cap individual stats at individual levels

stiff brook
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Alright I will test and see how it plays out if I find anything game breaking I will report it to you guys like always

glacial arch
unique mirage
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I presume he means with the debuff currently capping at 10 stacks that if you can actually reach that far then you're probably capable of going on infinitely and without any incentive to actually stop

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I personally don't see how the debuff stacking further counters that since all it does is push the rubicon farther back into a run, but it's a nice change anyways

hot needle
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Why not do a passive condition path that makes decreases effectively static? While it wouldn't be pretty on the tooltip you can say they're capped and the counter has limitations, and nothing will break.

supple onyx
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Ill try first like this and if this is not good enough I can do something more hacky

hot needle
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Stack-using increase as big as the decrease normally is and a stack-agnostic decrease equal to the cap has to work, if not I explained badly.
Condition is current stacks = const int(how many stacks it takes to reach the cap) to make it not happen until the cap is reached.

stiff brook
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Tbh I would prefer that the enemies simply become stronger buy e.g. faster and more with more special units, bigger aggro range , and become smarter so they don't just straight line at you but actually flank you from multiple sides, actively using cover.

All this would be far more interesting than making them simply more tanky and scale up damage.

Give the player a timer like in s1 but make the reinforcements actually scary by literally flooding the level with drugged super Androids that you simply can't fight, forcing you to stay on your toes and keep a balance act of speed to not get run over but also to not lose your cool fighting the normal arena enemies

unique mirage
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and if you could I'd much rather that be an Escalation thing and not a Loop thing

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The problem Loop runs into is that the ways you can effectively increase the danger further in are pretty limited

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either making enemies stronger or making the player weaker

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Both of which is already currently does

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I don't think the solution for how to make Loop satisfying is to make it fuck over the player in more convoluted ways I think we should worry about it just being a more interesting experience

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More things unique to Loop itself, whether it's shops, shrines, entire levels, enemies, bosses, etc.

stiff brook
# unique mirage I don't think you can do something as big as complete AI overhauls that are uniq...

Well to make it loop only would probably be an issue but first and foremost I am just throwing some ideas out.

I got that idea from when I just recently played classic halo on the highest difficulty there the enemies don't just get more HP and damage but like I said above are more have more special units and fight smarter and fiercer and basically never panic... and my fav when u stuck them with a sticky nade they actually charge you down taking u with them.

This is far more interesting than number go up on enemies or numbers go down for player

unique mirage
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Oh for sure, I definitely think it'd be interesting and just generally nice to have enemy AI that can challenge the player in more ways than just reacting to them quicker

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I also just wanna put it out there that Loop as it exists is perfectly fine, it functions more or less identically to S1's version and is perfectly serviceable as a post-end boss challenge

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It's not bad by any stretch, I just think there's heaps of untouched potential

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How you would go about turning that potential into actual gameplay is beyond my grasp, though

stiff brook
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Well yeah it's a great system and for a more refined experience to be a thing is exactly what active feedback by and working with the community is there for

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And tbh I already perfee s2 over s1 its just more satisfying but some interesting things from s1 could still be ported over.

Stuff like item rarity variants , gold chests, artifacts, bolts for free item, special recycled bonus.
Shared skills was really nice
And my favorite the lightning strikes when a divine weapon drops.

It's just that coop in s2 is really hit and miss, it constantly bugs out and if it actually works the scaling is off especially in loop...

But it has sky high potential for sure

supple onyx
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enemies are already on super reaction times and everything in loop, not completely tho

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there can be some extra features later like enemy grenades and such however

neat snow
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I would still love for more random stuff during a loop. More extreme level modifiers, randomised enemies (Like some cursed mish-mash of different attributes, teleporting dogs? Sure. Stuff like that)

Issue with that is sometimes you just get really lucky or really unlucky, both of which are out of your control. But it would make each loop interesting if what you encounter is a lot more random and kinda weird compared to regular runs

civic surge
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Loop is still not viable in coop

stiff brook
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very very much tho even with stupid strong build

weak summit
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S H O P

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THIS does not make any sense

1701264780_217b7906-bdcb-4f9e-a039-b71bafa51cdc.png
stiff brook
weak summit
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DAMN 27 stages for a single shop?

stiff brook
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Yes

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And then the game broke

weak summit
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šŸ˜‚

keen moat
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tons of lightning fast bullet sponges

civic surge
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Yeah, 4 ppl is the same. It apparently applies multiple loop stacks in coop. Number of players + 1 from what Iā€™ve seen. Hopefully this will be fixed at some point

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2 ppl loop can be workable with some shenanigans

glacial arch
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Loop is bugged

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its acknowledged

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And the bug is also funny

dusk mango
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I want more class variation/ specialization unlocks. Also more ability unlocks.

gilded leaf
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Simple one could be a 'kit' power boost

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I don't think that's a thing yet

urban night
urban night
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Got to the loop 2 times with my friend, once we died on first "map" and second time on second map. Good shit, love that. And can someone tell me how option "you die now" in S1 was optional? I tried to do everything with item that kills you (dropping/selling the item that kills you after 3 rounds... also killed you, at least in my version of the game? Was that bug?) So idk what i were supposed to do there šŸ˜„

hot needle
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Arma shard? Don't pick it up. Filling up the item bar should prevent auto-pickup.

civic surge
# urban night HUH. I DIDN'T KNOW THAT, how it was "optional"?

Ehm, skill, loadout, broken combos, all of the aboveā€¦ Your lifespan in loop highly depends on your skill and how well your build is prepared for it. With the right setup/play, you can loop indefinitely.

Concerning the armageddon shard, just donā€™t pick it up or recycle it in style (engi devours)

stiff brook
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Always recycle it

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It's free money

urban night
# civic surge Ehm, skill, loadout, broken combos, all of the aboveā€¦ Your lifespan in loop high...

CORRECT ME IF I AM WRONG ( i played S1 like... a year ago?) but the armageddon shard wasn't "optional" Pick up, it was picked up automatically. And after trying to recycle it, you just blow up/die. The same situation if you wait 3 maps with it in equipment, you just die. I couldn't find information about that then (idk, maybe I didn't look hard enough) so i just gave up and tough "well, they don't want you to play for infinite time so they just kill you"

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I basicially infinitly stacked on green small things, third boss, the life steal( i had very high number, can't remember now). Finished the game and got into "loop" but then after clearing up some maps i just died (didn't understand shit about the armageddon shard). Then I finished again and again died, then i finished and sold it/recycled it... then i died on the spot and gave up basicially.

hot needle
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You have to be close to it and with an empty item slot to pick it up. If you never saw it laying on the ground you always won in approximately the same spot.

civic surge