development

[half walrus]

and there’s about 10 people total in the community that care about them whatsoever

[lime pivot]

yeah @robust radish and I discussed it a long long time ago, and he raised a really good point that I don't even know what companies are out there using Theos

[robust radish]

whats the $ threshold that makes setting it up worth it? its low effort

[half walrus]

rest of the people see it just like substrate

[nimble parcel]

https://orion.theos.dev/getting-started.html it’s up :)

[robust radish]

10 ppl could be $300 a month

[lime pivot]

who can be guilted into giving me money every month

[nimble parcel]

feedback appreciated ofc

[half walrus]

the 10 people are mostly the active theos contributors is the thing lol

[lime pivot]

I think even just mentioning Orion would easily get some patrons

it's been very long awaited

(mostly apple's fault)

completely unrelated

[half walrus]

given my lack of understanding of orion internals

[robust radish]

whats the $ threshold that would make it worth it then? i could probbaly do it

[lime pivot]

I've had this iPod for like 6 weeks now and I'm still on the first charge

[half walrus]

how difficult would implementing orion in the toolchain itself be

i’m having fun ideas

[lime pivot]

could be convinced it has infinite battery life

[half walrus]

why stop with objc and swift

[nimble parcel]

interesting idea, why would that be beneficial though?

[half walrus]

.

[lime pivot]

Orion for Android

[nimble parcel]

what else would you want it for?

[robust radish]

substrate for android definitely worked out..

[tepid olive]

wait so orion is already included in latest theos

[lime pivot]

lmao, sarcasm

[half walrus]

i’m thinking more along the lines of

[nimble parcel]

not yet

[tepid olive]

alright

[half walrus]

implementing logos and orion into the same toolchain in a streamlined manner

then

[robust radish]

its so funny going to look @ the substrate docs and seeing all the other platforms' docs

[half walrus]

why not go a step further

[lime pivot]

I don't know how to explain that phenomenon, Magisk is the only "hooking" platform standing and even then the tweak selection is terrible

[tepid olive]

i know i’ll be trying it at launch lol

looks great

[half walrus]

add JS via supercharges projects

[robust radish]

magisks is the shit

and Xposed

Edxposed

[half walrus]

make conventional tweak dev truly accessible

[lime pivot]

and when I say "hooking" I mean just supporting overlay filesystems

[robust radish]

i maintain farms of android devices on that bs

[lime pivot]

aka when I type mount it outputs like 300 lines of each individual file in the overlay 🤷‍♀️

[nimble parcel]

thing is orion doesn’t behave like a conventional preprocessor, it generates a glue file and implementing that in the toolchain would be relatively difficult

[half walrus]

there’s a feature creep issue as well

or scope issue is maybe a better phrase

[nimble parcel]

what about bytebuddy?

[half walrus]

that wouldn’t really be a toolchain thing ig

something theos could handle

[nimble parcel]

yeah Orion isn’t something that belongs in the toolchain imo

[half walrus]

aka i implement it in dragon and flex it in the hopes theos gets it at some point

speaking of

[lime pivot]

when I think Magisk tweaks I think of the like 3 useful things you can do

1. bypass SafetyNet
2. replacing NotoColorEmoji.ttf with blobbos
3. installing useful tools to /system/xbin

[half walrus]

https://github.com/DragonBuild/dragon/blob/master/internal/tools/device.py

[nimble parcel]

I’m worried iOS might end up like that as well because tweaking swift is hard

[lime pivot]

it perplexes me how there just isn't a community that goes deeper than just the officially supported hooks (like launcher) as we have

[half walrus]

this was written with theos transplantability in mind

[robust radish]

scan apps for security issues dynamically

[half walrus]

please consider using it if you ever feel the need to improve theos’ current device IP setup

[nimble parcel]

also @lime pivot any chance you could go through the getting started tutorial when you have a minute?

[lime pivot]

and the roms situation is just a total mess, you just have to pick one of the many options that does most of what you want and just put up with the things you didn't want

lose SafetyNet, lose random features from your OEM's official AOSP build, lose Google apps without installing a questionable zip you have to pray isn't stealing your Google login

[half walrus]

running device.py get will print export statements to stdout

[lime pivot]

my Xiaomi was a great phone for the time but every rom I tried had the same problem where the fingerprint sensor would activate on my leg in my pocket

[half walrus]

idk if that would need to be adapted for make in a different way to make it usable

[lime pivot]

not an issue on stock MIUI

[robust radish]

thats annoying

[half walrus]

https://github.com/theos/theos/issues/536 it was written with #536 in mind

[lime pivot]

phone vibrates on recognising a "finger" and gets warm from repeated activations even after the timer locks out

[half walrus]

and i might just go ahead and cover that issue rn with it

[lime pivot]

tomorrow maybe can do

[half walrus]

already has support for multiple devices

cc @tacit spade

[robust radish]

we've been floating the idea of building our own android rom at work but we'd have to go through the oem cert process w/ google to get the playstore working, which makes the whole thing very offputting

[half walrus]

only “downside” is python becomes a dependency for theos

iirc llvm depends on python though

[lime pivot]

I feel like we do eventually need to take the plunge and just add python as a required dependency

[nimble parcel]

that’s probably gonna happen anyway

[lime pivot]

yeah

[nimble parcel]

ty

[robust radish]

it'd help if macos shipped with python3

[lime pivot]

I mean doesn't matter if we do it sooner than later

[half walrus]

that’s the only reason i could imagine the stuff i wrote with theos in mind not being used

[nimble parcel]

I think it does now but I’m not sure

[lime pivot]

it's easy to detect and bail out on at least

[half walrus]

but yeah i’m fairly sure llvm requires it

or maybe it’s lldb

[lime pivot]

refuse to run until python3 exists

[half walrus]

better yet just write code “mostly” compatible with both

[robust radish]

but its annoying for the user to install python3

[half walrus]

“Usually™️ works on python2 but doing so is not officially supported”

[lime pivot]

does homebrew still compile it from source?

I always did --force-bottle and lo and behold that actually works

[nimble parcel]

last I checked I have a /usr/bin/python3 so either stock macOS or Xcode command line tools come with it

[half walrus]

i am

[lime pivot]

why it builds from source I really really don't know

[half walrus]

fairly sure macos ships with py3, no?

[robust radish]

oh yeah i have /usr/bin/python3 too

[half walrus]

bc i remember big sur having 3.9

[glacial matrix]

Nice

[robust radish]

3.7 on catalina

[half walrus]

which caused a bug

[lime pivot]

hmm

[half walrus]

which i haven’t fixed

[lime pivot]

I guess it just doesn't exist in there or something

[half walrus]

fix is “don’t use 3.9” iirc

[nimble parcel]

otool -L /usr/bin/python3?

[misty cradle]

@nimble parcel swift prefs wen

[robust radish]

mine just links libsystem basically

[nimble parcel]

already on it :)

[misty cradle]

[lime pivot]

tf is this

[nimble parcel]

I’m planning to make a tutorial for a swift tweak with prefs

[lime pivot]

that's all strings tells me

it may be an xcrun stub

[nimble parcel]

probably one to hide/unhide the dock background without respringing (got that working with HBPrefs yesterday)

[robust radish]

yep it is

30kb

[lime pivot]

oook yeah the OS doesn't ship with python3, it only ships with python2

lrwxr-xr-x 1 root wheel 67 Dec  6 10:24 /Library/Developer/CommandLineTools/usr/bin/python3 -> ../../Library/Frameworks/Python3.framework/Versions/3.8/bin/python3*```

[robust radish]

annoying

[lime pivot]

makes sense

[nimble parcel]

If the command line tools have python3 that should be good enough shouldn’t it

[robust radish]

but i guess most ppl with theos will have brew?

[lime pivot]

they removed as much as they possibly could from the base OS and plan to remove more soon

[robust radish]

and brew makes python3 less of a hassle

[half walrus]

idk but if you’re running a machine without python3, you’re likely not at the point of being able to install theos

[robust radish]

but still unideal

[lime pivot]

Apple PHP even tells you to not use PHP!

[half walrus]

there were certain dependencies i don’t disclose as dependencies on the iOS version because it’s unrealistic that the user wouldn’t have them

[lime pivot]

WARNING: PHP is not recommended
true

[nimble parcel]

@lime pivot I’m planning to use hbpreferences in the official prefs tutorial for orion yw

[lime pivot]

👀

[robust radish]

lmao apple can be funny with that stuff

[half walrus]

as especially with theos, the llvm project is technically a dependency, and to install it you’re going to end up with python3 and most other tools along the way

[misty cradle]

Banned @nimble parcel

[robust radish]

i dont think you'd end up with python3 just installing make/theos

[tepid olive]

nice \n

[lime pivot]

definitely not

[nimble parcel]

is python3 required for using llvm or just for building it?

[half walrus]

i think none of us here being quite sure if macos shipped with 3 or not kinda made that clear

[misty cradle]

Cephei eats ur first child

[half walrus]

for lldb

[lime pivot]

it doesn't for sure

[half walrus]

on ios anyways

[misty cradle]

@nimble parcel I think python did ship with macOS

[robust radish]

maybe python2

[misty cradle]

As I never installed it myself

[lime pivot]

but if you use theos without Xcode or CLT installed you're a little special for not reading instructions

[misty cradle]

And have it

[lime pivot]

so 🤷‍♀️

[half walrus]

yeah it could be python2

[nimble parcel]

python3 in particular tho

[half walrus]

i’m not sure bc that’s referencing bing’s ios toolchain

and elu doesn’t have 3

[misty cradle]

how do I have python 3 then I never installed python 3

[lime pivot]

python ships as standard in all sane linux distros, and Cygwin is Cygwin

[half walrus]

either

so

when it comes to theos then, actually

python2 would have to be the target lang

[lime pivot]

ugh, fuck

really

[robust radish]

ugh

thatd suck

[lime pivot]

I mean at least it's not like Python 2.4 or some shit

[half walrus]

less problematic than it sounds really

import future or whatever it’s called

[lime pivot]

the latest and greatest Telesphoreo has to offer

[half walrus]

PyCharm does it automatically

[nimble parcel]

using python 2 is a bad idea imo

[robust radish]

id make ppl install python3 over writing it in python2 tbh

[lime pivot]

pretty sure I remember pip/easy_install just didn't work at all on that

[misty cradle]

Procursus

[lime pivot]

homecursus

[half walrus]

using python 2 vs ensuring compatibility

[misty cradle]

Maccursus

[half walrus]

target 3 but make sure 2 works as well

[tepid olive]

Python 2.6+ has the Python 3 forward compatibility stuff iirc

[lime pivot]

can we just make Procursus an absolute requirement lmao

[misty cradle]

[half walrus]

device.py supports python2

[misty cradle]

Yes yes

[half walrus]

can’t speak for dragongen

[nimble parcel]

stuffs more popcorn into face

[lime pivot]

jeez eat in moderation at least

[robust radish]

no type annotations

[half walrus]

as hesitant as i am

needs to happen

[nimble parcel]

you can’t tell me what to do mom

[misty cradle]

[half walrus]

with shit like elu having the repurcussion of limiting work on theos

[misty cradle]

Listen to ur mom

[cloud sundial]

Oof theos is indeed written in py2

[lime pivot]

I've been conditioned to always read "sliding in" as meaning something dirty

[lime pivot]

TIL

[cloud sundial]

Same

One easy way to figure that out is to look up print statements

[lime pivot]

I'll do you one better it's written in perl

[half walrus]

this would be better than the current state

yeah

[robust radish]

shutter

[cloud sundial]

Oh wait wtf it's written in perl...

[half walrus]

it’s almost satirical

like

[misty cradle]

Rewrite theos into CBython pls

[half walrus]

the projects not written in Makefile, which isn’t even an actual language

[lime pivot]

say "obsolete language with a new total refactor that's been in development for 10+ years with no release date in sight but it also happens to be really good at line-by-line parsing and regex" with me

[half walrus]

are written in perl

[misty cradle]

Cython + Bython + Python

[nimble parcel]

reminder that for something truly cursed you need to look no further than https://github.com/theos/theos/blob/kabiroberai/orion/bin/swift-support-builder.pl

[cloud sundial]

I looked at the print statements and assumed py2 lol

[half walrus]

literally just

[misty cradle]

Vibeok

[lime pivot]

as an example of how Theos has ruined my brain, I recently wrote a perl script to solve a problem at my job

[half walrus]

please stop writing stuff in perl

[robust radish]

perl projects: theos, ddos scripts

[lime pivot]

I'm sincerely sorry to whoever needs to run that script after my last day

[half walrus]

take the jump, add py3 as a dependency

stop commiting perl code

[lime pivot]

it's also really hacky, so, take of it what you will

[misty cradle]

I should look for a job soon if January doesn’t make enough money for my goal

[lime pivot]

can i commit sudoku

[misty cradle]

My entire CV is basically empty Bc I’ve never worked anywhere

And these damn jobs require experiences

[cloud sundial]

Then get a job to get that experience

[nimble parcel]

i believe the politically correct terminology is “dying by perl code”

[lime pivot]

you've worked for the infamous tech company Tr1Fecta

[half walrus]

it’s absurd that a project 10 years older than mine can’t do this

if the connection doesn’t fail it’ll automatically copy your key over as well

[robust radish]

put projects on your github and use them as experience

[lime pivot]

it should do all those things

[half walrus]

it’ll also generate the key if you haven’t yet

it also doesn’t require ssh-copy-id since ios doesn’t have that

[lime pivot]

I just shudder at thinking how I'd make it work nicely with make without breaking API contracts every time and just drop the idea

[half walrus]

that took me an hour or two tops

[robust radish]

expert: theos uses arp-scan to find devices and tries the ssh port, auto-chooses a jailbroken device. asks for you to select one if theres multiple

[lime pivot]

now that's galaxy brain

well

[robust radish]

not even hard

[half walrus]

.

[nimble parcel]

that’s not even impractical using dns multicast stuff

[lime pivot]

you can also enable bonjour and scan for _ssh with the built-in dns-sd command in macOS

[half walrus]

this was my first jailbreak related project i published actually

was a script that did that

that actually

lol

[cloud sundial]

@gentle crescent I have perms to send messages in #794200785789124621 btw

Wait wrong channel

[nimble parcel]

why are there so many names for the thing that broadcasts devices over DNS

[half walrus]

satisfied the issue i posted in chat earlier

[gentle crescent]

o

ty

[lime pivot]

me when I need to scan my network to find my devices

[half walrus]

.

[nimble parcel]

discoveryd throwback

[half walrus]

i just used, bash i think, + a native c script that worked with arp

so what it did was actually allow you to install to a mac address instead of IP

buggy router back then

and it’d install to multiple

[robust radish]

tricks picked up by maintaining farms of devices. I do something like this to push binaries to "any ios device that can be found on network with openssh"

[lime pivot]

nowadays I seem to usually be able to ssh to iproxy and it just, connects

even though I don't have Xcode wifi debug enabled

[misty cradle]

you've worked for the infamous tech company Tr1Fecta
@lime pivot true

[lime pivot]

probably partly only works on public networks (uni etc) because bonjour prefers ipv6

[robust radish]

weird, i have to enable wifi debug for that to work. and wireless console logging

[half walrus]

idk what it actually is but all of my apple devices can be accessed by hostname over ssh on my LAN

[robust radish]

and it dies sometimes which sucks

[half walrus]

i have no idea how

[misty cradle]

But I do need a job at some supermarket or something

[lime pivot]

why wireless lockdownd sometimes works sometimes doesn't continues to be a mystery

[misty cradle]

Make some more money Bc all my money is invested in shoes rn

[half walrus]

i tried looking into it and i remember it confused some other people as well

[lime pivot]

but it's worked for me more often than it hasn't lately

[nimble parcel]

everybody gangsta until someone walks in with a jailbroken phone with their password set to alpine

[half walrus]

my router doesn’t support it

[misty cradle]

I need to make more money to invest in shoes

[half walrus]

perks of living in kansas ig

[lime pivot]

I need less money so I stop buying shoes 😬

[misty cradle]

everybody gangsta until someone walks in with a jailbroken phone with their password set to alpine
@nimble parcel thats me

[robust radish]

lmao could be bad. these devices are isolated on their own network

[glacial matrix]

I have partial progress on a python implementation of this

[lime pivot]

I'm sure yall would be glad to take that burdensome savings account money off of me

[misty cradle]

I need less money so I stop buying shoes 😬
@lime pivot i can help u with that

[half walrus]

only jailbreak anyone knows about here is when another methhead breaks out

[nimble parcel]

the WiFi debug toggle is only required for paired lockdown operations iirc

[robust radish]

wen open source

[half walrus]

and

[robust radish]

are you working on it on your vacation

[misty cradle]

We have another 2 boxes downstairs, mid January this’ll be about 20 boxes

[lime pivot]

yeah I think it totally bypasses all of the Xcode-specific safety stuff because it's just the tcp proxy feature

[half walrus]

concerns about automatically opening port 22 on jailbreaks due to security issues imply that developers leave their house

[lime pivot]

not the "install and debug arbitrary code on this device" feature

have you considered becoming the proud owner of a recycling bin

[misty cradle]

I have one

[robust radish]

installing tweaks is kind of crazy

[lime pivot]

see

[half walrus]

don’t get me started

[lime pivot]

I may have forgotten to disable ssh password auth while I was holidaying in the US last year

[robust radish]

package managers dont even show you what process and which entitlements a dylib is about to get

[half walrus]

tweaks need to be reconceptuqlized from the ground up

[misty cradle]

Need drake to release his new album and new shoe collab with Nike so I can clear all the stock

tweaks need to be reconceptuqlized from the ground up
@half walrus and how do u plan on doing that

[lime pivot]

futurerestored the phone when I realised, ugh

[half walrus]

and until that happens people need to stfu about privacy or security concerns

we’re galaxies worse than apple as it stands on that front

[robust radish]

literally no UI difference between an executable and a tweak that hooks every process and scrapes shit. and jb users are hoenstly not all the brightess so they arent thinking about it

[lime pivot]

this reminds me

[robust radish]

needs to be handled by package managers or repos or something

[lime pivot]

@half walrus you're still up for some paid work right? 🙃

[half walrus]

if a closed source tool being able to inject into any process with root perms isn’t enough

go ahead and just write whatever you want in the postinst

we’ll just run it as root for ya

no need to show it to the user

[robust radish]

sometimes theyre nice and echo stuff in them 😆

[half walrus]

pro tip^ if you ever need to reset your root pass, just use cydia

i have a personalised echo in mine

certain FS directory i set up on first install as users wanted the ability to have layouts stored on device, if it’s already there there’s a little “welcome back” msg

[lime pivot]

that's cute

[half walrus]

it’s just absurd that closed source and even obfuscation is widely accepted here

by users

[robust radish]

postrm should clean that up tho

[robust radish]

very much agreed

[lime pivot]

devs get too attached to their work because they spent so much unpaid spare time on it

[half walrus]

it should, however i personally prefer the UX of it not doing that, as it then maintains my layouts

[lime pivot]

decide to DRM it up because they think it needs to be protected

[half walrus]

if i have to remove the tweak because of a restoring loop ive now lost all of the layouts i had set up

[robust radish]

i like releasing code for ppl to see more than releasing the projects

like, go read my code lol. fuck the tweaks

[lime pivot]

users are conditioned to accept it because they don't completely value the philosophy of jailbreaking, they just want cool shit

[half walrus]

not an issue for me, but for passionate modders, having it persistant was just the better approach

[half walrus]

god that’s so relatable

[lime pivot]

^^^^^

[half walrus]

even open source my paid shit

because i worked so damn hard cleaning up homeplus source

[robust radish]

all my paid tweaks were open source, then i got grossed out at profitting off of free jailbreaks and stopped charging for stuff

[lime pivot]

neh

be greedy

I mean open source but capitalise on laziness of not caring to build from source

[half walrus]

i left out a critical file so it wouldn’t build regardless, but the code needed in that file is low-key also in the HomePlusBeta gh repo

[half walrus]

^

didn’t hurt my sales a bit

[lime pivot]

yeah, really

[robust radish]

other tweaks would heavily rip my shit after open sourcing

[lime pivot]

users don't understand, as far as they're concerned it's just some nerdy shit and all they want is home screen customiser thingy

[half walrus]

i don’t get why people aren’t comfortable with this

[lime pivot]

https://github.com/search?q=canopenurl+aphelion&type=code

😂

[half walrus]

everyone stole homeplus bets code since it was foss and the first full-fledged layout tweak for ios 13

[lime pivot]

@half walrus you're 5th on that page 💚

sorry 4th

[half walrus]

i know this because i found a 7 line way to do what everyone did in my same original godawful way

[lime pivot]

not that I care it's just amusing to track the proliferation of code I wrote 8 years ago

[half walrus]

they say imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

[robust radish]

everytime a new multitasking tweak would pop up, i throw it in hopper and confirm it contains all the context hosting stuff from my old multitasking tweak

[half walrus]

wish people would stop imitating my code

not bc i mind

bc it’s usually bad

[lime pivot]

there's a reason why they're taking your code instead of just learning from it

[robust radish]

having to deal with PR review daily makes you good at producing production code all the time

[nimble parcel]

it’s gonna be fun to see how orion affects reverse engineering tweaks

[half walrus]

this mindset leads to this: https://iphonedevwiki.net

[nimble parcel]

swift re is generally a bit harder than objc

[half walrus]

and what i mean by that is

a dead website

[lime pivot]

a few openURL: calls is one thing, like, who cares, it's clear what it does, takes all of like 60 seconds to write

[robust radish]

huh? theyre able to reuse it bc i open srouced the research

[half walrus]

exactly

[lime pivot]

but massive chunks of a tweak? without understanding all of how it works? ugh

[half walrus]

that’s the whole goal of it

if they’re ripping ur code, good

they probably would’ve done it worse and still shipped it otherwise

[robust radish]

i have a script that pretties-up tweak hooks in Hopper. theres no way ill get it workign with the swift stuff

[lime pivot]

I don't mind being ripped off as long as it's either extremely obvious what the code does, or I feel comfortable that the dev gained value from it other than just saving a few days writing it from scratch

[weary heath]

Who hosts the iphonedevwiki

[half walrus]

this website is a ghost town dated heavily to iOS 6 because people stopped contributing as much research

[lime pivot]

more like iPhone OS 3

[nimble parcel]

you could resort to dynamic instrumentation

[half walrus]

and that’s unhealthy in a community where we’re working with entirely private frameworks

[lime pivot]

and even then so much of that came from the iphone-dev googlecode sites

[robust radish]

unideal needing to have a device for static analysis

[half walrus]

nobody can reasonably be expected to be able to research all of that on their own

[nimble parcel]

btw is it just me or did the Xcode 12.1 iOS 14 SDK accidentally include private frameworks

[half walrus]

if it did i feel like you shouldn’t be saying it in a public channel

[nimble parcel]

either that or I copied them into the SDK and forgot

[lime pivot]

I think the people who were good at documentation back then didn't yet realise it would be profitable to hoard that knowledge indefinitely

[nimble parcel]

eh it’s not like they’re much of a secret anyway

[lime pivot]

(to make a few thousand bucks over a few months to 2-3 years max)

[half walrus]

it’s not even profitable

[nimble parcel]

not the headers just the tbd files

[half walrus]

like how homeplus pro performed made it very clear all of the arguments against open source and sharing research here are dumb

[lime pivot]

yeah I'm calling the mindset silly because it seems like a lot of money when you're like 15 and the best you could otherwise get is minimum wage at mcdonalds

but in the end you're just being a jerk for a few thousand bucks you're going to blow on a macbook or a car or some shit anyway

[half walrus]

who cares if every other tweak has the exact same stability as h+ when it comes to layout hooks; that’s good, everyone wins there

it beat others because of the UX and UI

stability shouldn’t be a selling point over other products, should be a baseline

[robust radish]

perhaps there could be info exported somewhere in the binary thatd be this easy to do with swift tweaks.. https://arxius.io/v/2e24a270

[half walrus]

and when, just for example, spark sits on his RE into stuff related to AOD

that doesn’t make hyperion more popular

it just means a lot of peoples phones have worse battery life on alternatives

[nimble parcel]

hm I just realised it should be possible to get the hooked methods pretty easily anyway

the hooked methods have objc selectors

reverse engineering the bodies of hooks won’t be as easy though

there’s lots of inlining and optimisation in release builds

[robust radish]

swift is brutal to re statically

[lime pivot]

reminds me

has anyone really encountered objc_direct in the wild at all?

guess you may not really know unless existing code got refactored

[robust radish]

no but i expect to very soon

[lime pivot]

this is about the only actual use I found on github just now https://github.com/twitter/ios-twitter-logging-service/blob/c306e276299030004f508175ddca7fee719b683d/Classes/TLS_Project.h#L71

most are just random clones of llvm

[robust radish]

the pspdfkit sdk is using it heavily

[half walrus]

idek what it looks like

or when to attribute a hook refusing to work properly to it

[lime pivot]

https://github.com/search?l=Objective-C&q=__attribute__+objc_direct+-clang+-llvm+-directCallVoidReturn+-directClassMethod2&type=Code

well there's the definitive list

[half walrus]

i’ve had some hooks of methods just refuse to work, but i typically chalk that up to me needing to find a better way to do it

https://twitter.com/silzeejailbreak/status/1345618896204648449?s=21 idk who this is but they’re straight up promoting a virus now lol

Silzee (@SilzeeJailbreak)

Jailbreak iOS 14.4 > All available methods

https://t.co/x3696AY42h

Twitter · Jan 3, 2021, 6:31 AM

[robust radish]

hey theres a pspdfkit radar lol

[lime pivot]

the answer is Twitter, PSPDFKit, and two randoms' projects

may I suggest a tinfoil hat and a 5G covid preventing USB stick

[half walrus]

kinda wanna throw another picture on the twitter

kinda wanna also avoid that becoming the content of my twitter

[lime pivot]

that's what you have the private-ish account for

[half walrus]

yes but my ego

[lime pivot]

well at least you're confident

[tardy narwhal]

@calm folio You’ve been banned before in this discord, you’re an alt

[half walrus]

just holding onto it while it lasts lol

or maybe it stays

[robust radish]

i dont got an ego but my money do

[half walrus]

haven’t once felt confident about looks up until this point so

[robust radish]

myrepospace used to play that when you visited

[half walrus]

kinda riding the wave

[lime pivot]

did that auction sell lmao

[robust radish]

nope

[half walrus]

also i gained 60 followers after NY so take that as you will

[robust radish]

im awaiting response on my final bid

but he is way off base with his valuation

he's australian maybe you should try

i could see why he would make me pay more

[lime pivot]

it's just gonna be the usual eBay thing where they keep dropping the starting price for months wondering why selling for like 20x the actual value isn't working

[half walrus]

damn

[robust radish]

the auction's description of why he's selling it is based solely around the events we did lmao

[half walrus]

really banned him before i could reply

smh

[lime pivot]

smh

[half walrus]

https://twitter.com/atebitsy/status/1345690151566110721?s=21 @nimble parcel you have a customer

(chloee) (atebitsy) (@atebitsy)

Does anyone around use swift?

Twitter · Jan 3, 2021, 11:15 AM

[tardy narwhal]

Because they’re the same user from yesterday that blew up #jailbreak with false information and how your fingerprint data is sent to the government and covid is fake

[robust radish]

n1to?

[tardy narwhal]

Not Nito lmao, some random Karen

[lime pivot]

I don't think that even counts as false information

[brave frost]

Dont get mad @tardy narwhal but i am curious, do you need a shared instance of a class if i try to access a ivar from that class from another class using mshookivar?

[half walrus]

don’t tell me anyone bought this though

[lime pivot]

wouldn't even dignify a tinfoil hat theory with that high a status

[half walrus]

was it just spam while everyone mocked em or

do i need to cry about the world for an hour again

can’t fathom the level of dissonance it takes to get to that point

[robust radish]

a few days of amphetamines will get you there

[half walrus]

at what point is it a medical condition and not just Idiot Disorder™️

[robust radish]

drug induced psychosis

[lime pivot]

ugh I was meant to be having a chill holiday in London right now

[half walrus]

bullshit i do this constantly and don’t pull that shit

[lime pivot]

hate worldwide pandemics forcing me to save my money smh

[tardy narwhal]

lmao all good, afaik depends. if it has a shared instance grab it else go for the class

[half walrus]

i’d have to imagine there’d need to be some underlying issue

[digital vale]

How do i restrict tcp/udp networks programmatically?

[tardy narwhal]

google

please

uroboro gave you a freebie yesterday

[half walrus]

completely beyond the scope of most people here

[nimble parcel]

and I’m sure I’ll have a lot more soon haha

[half walrus]

wait

wait i have something for you actually

[brave frost]

Sorry but when you say “go for the class”, i am actually not able to get what you mean.

[lime pivot]

beyond a question you can just ask really

too broad

[digital vale]

[robust radish]

lol

[half walrus]

@digital vale http://newosxbook.com/bonus/vol1ch16.html best you’re gonna get

have fun

nobody here that i know of has any more info than what’s in that chapter

[robust radish]

if its a tweak you can probably find some low level ssl function to hook thatd break connections

[half walrus]

i would prefer someone do it properly

for once

[tardy narwhal]

well if you want to hook an ivar from a target and it doesn’t have a shared instance your options would be to hook the class directly or find its controller (if existent) and hook into that

[half walrus]

every firewall tweak uses hacks to do it

and it’s just barely enough to where it’s not problematic

[lime pivot]

can you do it right on iOS without being in the kernel?

[half walrus]

iOS has a built in packet filter

[lime pivot]

knowing DriverKit does not and likely may never exist on iOS

oh, so it does

[digital vale]

I’m trynna build a tweak that restricts TCP/UDP,HTTP networks

[half walrus]

pf/pfd is the userland device for that

[nimble parcel]

hooking libc networking APIs should work for most stuff I assume

[lime pivot]

doesn't feel like that qualifies for "right"

[robust radish]

the sslkillswitch project may be a good project to look into. it'll give you hints as to which areas you need to hunt for functions

[tardy narwhal]

https://github.com/evilpenguin/SSLBypass

[half walrus]

pfd communicates with the kernel and handles it that way

[tardy narwhal]

perhaps this one might be of interest

[digital vale]

What does it do?

[nimble parcel]

some things like Go (and Rust?) use the syscalls directly though

[half walrus]

when it comes to firewalling hooking libc is

[tardy narwhal]

have you even tried reading the description mate

[half walrus]

not the right way to go

[nimble parcel]

yeah ofc for a comprehensive firewall you’d need something closer to the kernel

[robust radish]

has anyone else noticed how evilpenguin has been copying other ppls open source projects

[digital vale]

‘Bypass SSL pinning on iOS 8 to iOS 14’

[misty cradle]

Ssl pinning bypass reminds me of my old hacking days

[tardy narwhal]

it’s odd but did he copy code as well

[half walrus]

pretend you have a limited amount of questions to ask and try to figure most simple and easy things out yourself

it’ll get you far here

[robust radish]

yeah from my managers project lol https://github.com/nabla-c0d3/ssl-kill-switch2. and his XPCSniffer is largely from a project from jonathen levin

[brave frost]

Okay . I just want to get the text property of a UILabel from a UIView. It has not contain a view controller as far as i know. I want to access its value from another class

Sorry, i am not good at explaination

[half walrus]

it has a view controller

something made it

[robust radish]

he copied the project but removed the unit tests ??

[tardy narwhal]

NOOOOO LMAO

[half walrus]

sounds good 2 me

[lime pivot]

hahahaha

[brave frost]

Yes i can’t find lol.

[half walrus]

fixed all the bugs then i’m sure

tests haven’t said anything to indicate otherwise, anyways

[lime pivot]

what happened to that evilpenguin guy to make him do this

his… his wife kinda died

[robust radish]

yeah i was gonna say lol

more tweaks need unit tests

[brave frost]

Oh actually. I have the view controller. I am so dumb

[lime pivot]

but how do you go from that to claiming code as yours

[robust radish]

its a reach to make them a connection

[half walrus]

can you sell me on the time cost/benefit here

[robust radish]

of unit testing?

[tardy narwhal]

well I’d suggest using flexall or any flex* and browsing, usually you’d find a VC. Then hop over to browse the controller’s header file or use flexall/ flex* to inspect its props

[half walrus]

in ios tweaks

[lime pivot]

that was a bit mean

[brave frost]

I find it loll. I was trying to access it from its view controller. I am so dumb

[tardy narwhal]

all good, glad to see that from last time you’re progressing well

[robust radish]

it has the same value as anywhere else, if not more due to the varying-os nature of tweaks. If you have a comprehensive unit test suite, you can run it on a new version of ios and know exactly what works and doesnt

[half walrus]

i can’t imagine reasonable unit tests for something like HomePlus being possible

[robust radish]

avoiding regressions

you can kind of do it with cycript

[half walrus]

due to the nature of it, i’d have to factor in other variables since it’s just a library in the project that is SpringBoard

[lime pivot]

I feel like we’ve gone wrong somewhere as a wider tech community that unit tests just don’t exist most of the time

definitely guilty myself

[half walrus]

so you’re writing unit tests for a project you don’t have source to

[robust radish]

https://github.com/EthanArbuckle/carplay-cast/blob/master/tests/springboard_tests.cy

[lime pivot]

chariz is getting so complex it kinda needs to start having a lot of unit tests written

[half walrus]

and in terms of cost/benefit i could just spend that time fixing dragon or fixing actual tweak bugs

[robust radish]

no you unit test your code. so if you hook a function, invoke that function

if you have solid testing you'd likely not spend so much time on bugs bc thered be less

[half walrus]

i mean a unit test for me is just toggling all of the shit in the editor

[lime pivot]

modularise your code such that you can test the output of an individual piece of logic given an input

[tardy narwhal]

who was asking for objc_direct though

[lime pivot]

maybe Mike Ash and that’s it

[tardy narwhal]

pls raise your hand

[half walrus]

apparently it has insane performance improvements

[robust radish]

someone at apple who's tasked with reducing OS size

[lime pivot]

I have my doubts anyone outside Apple actually wanted it, or even inside Apple to be honest

[tardy narwhal]

well turning objc to c and skipping the entire dispatch, I can imagine lmao

https://github.com/opa334/libundirect

[half walrus]

we’re talking about objc call levels of performance improvements but still

like

why not

[robust radish]

the dispatch is pretty quick nowadays

[half walrus]

kinda hard to argue against it as a feature

[lime pivot]

but yes things like this usually tend to end up being purely about what Apple decided is the solution to a problem they have, not something we should care about

[half walrus]

“makes shit faster”
cons:
none

[tardy narwhal]

yeah, i wouldn’t consider dispatch slow either tbf

[half walrus]

don’t really see how it wouldn’t get approved

even minor improvements are great when they can be scaled across an entire OS

[lime pivot]

they did enough to prove objc is still highly performant this year

[half walrus]

so what if it fucks tweak dev over

[lime pivot]

with other runtime changes (including breaking ABI in one place)

[half walrus]

write better tweaks

[brave frost]

@tardy narwhal my previous code work, but i forgot to change the extension. So dumb

Because it was .x

[half walrus]

usually don’t need to hook very much at all

[tardy narwhal]

ayy nice

[robust radish]

i get paid by the %hook

[lime pivot]

the improvements (which were all in a WWDC session I think hosted by Mike Ash?) definitely were mainly about binary size

[half walrus]

there’s a point where not hooking certain stuff has a negative impact on readability of your project but a tweak with 0 hooks is absolutely possible

[lime pivot]

cause it’s easy to just throw money into making the compiler make smaller code, rather than find out how much of those few GB iOS is at now is dead code that nobody will miss

[half walrus]

fun fact, SpringBoard.framework as it exists in the cache has so many load commands it breaks the extractor lol

[lime pivot]

you know

[half walrus]

same shit with google

[lime pivot]

I love the idea that you can now make a SpringBoard.app app, launched by SpringBoard

[half walrus]

astronomical bloat

fix their code/optimise build process?

nah, they just wrote ninja instead

not sure whether to complain

[robust radish]

you can steal the springboard scene in an app process and display it / resize it and stuff

spring board kills xcode

[lime pivot]

I mean at least they gave us the gift of ninja, unlike Facebook who just ship MBs and MBs of cruft apparently nobody has the time to review and delete

[half walrus]

“we made revolutionary progress in x area”

[lime pivot]

hahah

[half walrus]

(“in an effort to avoid fixing y massive issue with our company”)

[lime pivot]

that sounds like so much fun

[half walrus]

lol

[robust radish]

u can do the same with the carplay scene, and make it show up on the device screen

[lime pivot]

mind you Facebook is also the same company that popularised this new reactive UI trend

[half walrus]

there’s weirder stuff

[robust radish]

and vice versa - springboard on carplay

[half walrus]

one of my tweaks was crashing preferences

thing was

it didn’t have a pref bundle

it was a springboard tweak

i never looked deeply into it, just found a hack to detect it, but

[lime pivot]

why set up UI once and change it only when needed when you could just have the API user give you a chunk of UI you then have to traverse through to figure out what changed

[half walrus]

apparently the Wallpaper preview view, at least on 12, isn’t dynamically generated

nor is it a streamed preview

[lime pivot]

I say that using react as the only UI library in chariz because I love punishing myself

[half walrus]

it’s some pseudo-gutted remote instance of SpringBoard running in Preferences.app

[lime pivot]

it used to be just a snapshot that lived inside, I think, Library/Caches/SpringBoard/

[half walrus]

and sb would crash from preferences because my tweak got bad_access trying to access instance variables

[lime pivot]

cpbitmap, like all great SpringBoard features

[misty cradle]

you can steal the springboard scene in an app process and display it / resize it and stuff
@robust radish

[half walrus]

yeah no it was very much alive then

[robust radish]

on ios8 there was an sbhomescreenpreviewview class in SB that was a remote view controller service

[half walrus]

painful bug

[half walrus]

sounds like what it was but idk anything about rvc

[lime pivot]

but clearly they’ve decided to just not bother with simple solutions any more

[misty cradle]

SBHomeScreenPreviewView still exists in 13

[lime pivot]

ok maybe it was always a remote view

[half walrus]

id be more pumped about stuff like objc direct if they didn’t compensate for each improvement to the system/hardware with a shitload of overhead

[robust radish]

maybe ti showed the screenshot while xpc connection was establishing

[lime pivot]

only condition where it’d have to be serialised to png is for Apple Configurator’s unnecessarily ginormous iPhone graphic

[robust radish]

ios takes a lot of snapshots

[half walrus]

imagine an iphone X on iOS 6

[robust radish]

lovely

[half walrus]

and how stupidly fast the performance would be

[lime pivot]

just to flex that they can show your wallpaper and home screen over usb

[lime pivot]

this is like running XP on a Ryzen 5900X tbh

[half walrus]

i mean yeah

[lime pivot]

has anyone ever managed that, like, with everything working

[half walrus]

both OSes add just enough bloat as hardware improves

[robust radish]

did ios6 have arm64 support?

[half walrus]

no

[lime pivot]

Windows was actually pretty steady in the Vista - 8.1 era

Metro was a whole thing but you could easily configure it to pretend it just didn’t exist

10 really started packing on features like crazy

[half walrus]

if apple actually supports armv8.x the processors should be capable of running v7 in the same way windows can x86

the arm spec includes support for that, i vaguely remember something in the bootchain referencing it, but can’t say it for sure

[lime pivot]

https://twitter.com/1nsane_dev/status/1170728738729996289

🔥🌸 Giulio Zompetti (@1nsane_dev)

Early #Prototype iPhone 5S from 2012
N53AP, running an iOS 6.0 build.
#AppleInternal #SwitchBoard

Likes

399

Twitter · Sep 8, 2019, 4:00 PM

[robust radish]

oh neat

[lime pivot]

the only proof that it existed on prototypes as far as I’m aware is this battery screen

[robust radish]

i wonder how much to buy the device

[lime pivot]

it’s also a switchboard build if the #hashtags are to be believed

so not like you’ll be seeing beautiful iOS 6 home screen on that anytime soon

[half walrus]

mm AppleInternal

wish i had money

[tepid olive]

gm

[half walrus]

have some stuff on the wish list

gotta get a flagship prototype someday

[lime pivot]

supposedly has working touch id also

[robust radish]

someone should find the springboard src leak and revert git back to an ios6 commit, build for arm64

[misty cradle]

The SBHomeScreenPreviewView still works

[lime pivot]

hahah

[half walrus]

course like uh

XS prototype that came out when XS was flagship is

the XS was already expensive as shit

can’t imagine how much they sold it for

love to get an internalUI device too, shit comes with a full bootstrap hot and ready

[misty cradle]

XS prices have gone down a lot

Lool

You can get one for 400 or lower now

[half walrus]

llvm 3 though but

[misty cradle]

Friend got an XS Max for 420 or something

[half walrus]

still a bootstrap lol

[misty cradle]

Few weeks ago

[robust radish]

i keep checking my local craigslist for devfused devices but no luck

[half walrus]

can we hack the Apple source server and update their llvm-build fork 👉👈

[lime pivot]

have you ever thought about, given how you can totally run XP on an iPhone X with reasonable speed while an iPhone 3G was about unusable, if Corellium were OSS, we would have been able to boot virtualised iOS 6 on iPhone X by now

[half walrus]

like cmon apple we’ve got this shit just sitting in the open for you

[misty cradle]

@lime pivot yes

Need correlium

[half walrus]

doesn’t go further back than 10

[robust radish]

their usbfluxd project is very cool

[half walrus]

ios still isn’t open

[misty cradle]

I had access to their thing for 24 hours but apparently the 24 hours go in as soon as you claim them

[half walrus]

oh christ i

[misty cradle]

I thought they would start when u start using the product

[lime pivot]

I mean I think they’re in the rare position where they should probably never open source, or at least not yet

[half walrus]

completely forgot about stuff i was gonna shoot to them on that

[robust radish]

i had it for like 6months

[lime pivot]

given how they narrowly avoided one of the 2 charges Apple filed

[half walrus]

had it for a month then, paypal yknow

haven’t been able to get in touch with them since now

[misty cradle]

Too bad they killed the android project sandcastle

[half walrus]

ignoring my emails smh

[misty cradle]

Since it was just PR so they wouldn’t die

[lime pivot]

never was alive to begin with

[robust radish]

i had a demo with their ceo and we asked what they would do if they got sued by apple, and she sighed and wass like "we have had meetings with them, they know what were doing.. we wont get sued"

maybe 1.5y ago

lmao

[tardy narwhal]

lmao that worked out great

[half walrus]

publicity stunt, as a project no sane person would continue working on that while trying to run a business

[misty cradle]

ye

[lime pivot]

the “source code” was a ginormous patch file saying “idk download this exact commit of AOSP and apply this, have fun”

[half walrus]

but goddamn that’s one hell of a publicity stunt if i’ve ever seen one

[robust radish]

they spent a good amount of time on that tho

and their team isn't huge

[half walrus]

can’t knock it, they deserve the attention

[robust radish]

4 devs?

[lime pivot]

conversations that precede unfortunate events

[robust radish]

turns out they were stealing tech in those meetings

[half walrus]

lol i should

[robust radish]

makes it shady that apple is a DT customer

[half walrus]

send that message to the guy who approached me for contract work

[lime pivot]

yeah I mean man it’s something that they got the kernel to boot and actually not crash or brick your NAND

[half walrus]

who i told no for like 3 months bc he’s gonna get sued

wants me to reimplement the imessage protocol

[lime pivot]

usability of AOSP eg GPU drivers a whole other issue of course

[half walrus]

reverse and build proprietary closed source software to connect and use imessage

he’s gonna get sued by apple

that’s exactly what they go after

difficult to defend TOS and likely other violations for explicitly commercial purpose

[lime pivot]

but I’d totally dig running shitty software rendered AOSP as like a super beefy raspberry pi

[half walrus]

and i won’t even be able to blame apple if they do

it’s their servers

[lime pivot]

you reminded me of this I just saw today https://sendblue.co

[half walrus]

you’re charging for people to use servers you don’t host

[lime pivot]

I wonder who tf this is and how sanctioned it is

they’re definitely not using Business Chat, and they allocate you a number

[half walrus]

this can’t be legal

[robust radish]

i bet they have applescripts somewhere in the setup

[lime pivot]

so I guess it’s just a farm of iPhones???

[robust radish]

mac imsg is easier to automate

[half walrus]

well

[lime pivot]

I accidentally found their “old” homepage which lists a waiting list queue of like 370 people

[half walrus]

ios automation is far easier

[robust radish]

on mac its like a few loc of applescript

[half walrus]

if you have a weathered jailbreak dev writing it for you

[lime pivot]

so I’m really imagining it’s just this weirdo fleet of cheap iPhones with unique Apple IDs and SIMs

[half walrus]

got approached 3 times since july about that exact thing

[robust radish]

how much are they offering

[half walrus]

really weird actually

well

not enough

but they knew i was in a financially desperate situation

[lime pivot]

well the key is that you need to have a currently active iPhone with that number, so they could automate it on a mac, but the iPhone has to be allocated to that customer for life

[robust radish]

i wouold do it

[half walrus]

so enough to where i was in a position that i couldnt say no

i picked them up

didn’t really have another option

paypal froze my entire bank account

i very much regret it

the first group has been

difficult to work with to the point that the contract isn’t done and nobody has talked in a month or two

[tepid olive]

[half walrus]

people who insist on being involved in the writing and RE

and don’t know what an NSString is

[misty cradle]

[half walrus]

you hired me to do the RE, and i’m even fine doing the code, but at least let me do that

like they were insistently asking me for a header dump, but in a weird format, and with the value of each property

[tepid olive]

getting paid to reverse is the most anxiety inducing thing ever so I ask for payment after I get the job done

[half walrus]

so i gave them flex

they couldn’t figure out how to use flex

ok

so i’ll see how easy itd be to dump it from flex

hint: no

so at that point i just tried to sit the guy down and tell him if he ever wants this project done he needs to just step back and let me do the project

long ass in depth conversation

feel better about the project

next day he asks me when i’ll be able to get him that dump

told me he was bringing on an iOS dev

rest of the project is finished so i said i’d wait till they bring them on and we can work the rest of the project out and get it shipped

been several months i think since that

[misty cradle]

Make sneaker bot ez money

[half walrus]

i agreed to help reverse imessage, and the project scope at the end of it involved two custom jailbreaks, an app, a custom process code injection tool, a daemon to communicate with their server, and a mock-server process since they wouldn’t even send me the API details for the client

[tepid olive]

[half walrus]

gone far beyond above and beyond

next guy has been better but it’s a massively complex thing because of his requirements

to the point running a headless macos VM in the background of an app was/is being considered as one of the few ways to pull it off

thankfully actually understood me explaining the complexity and brought on (i think) a talented dev with experience in an important area

https://reddit.com/r/jailbreak/comments/kp4ytl/news_windows_10_arm_on_ipad_pro/

someone opened an app guys

everybody scream

[tepid olive]

true

[tepid olive]

it would be cool if he showcased using the x64 emulation

also if this was accelerated it would be close to Surface Pro speeds?

oh right this isn't A12Z

but if you used an A12Z iPad it would be pretty close ig

[half walrus]

doubt it

it’s emulated arm64

not native

[tepid olive]

it's a literal DTK, and if it was accelerated like M1 is maybe?

could the acceleration from Hypervisor.framework be reproduced

[half walrus]

if an ipad were capable of what an M1 with rosetta is we wouldn’t have all gone nuts seeing the performance

and even then

[tepid olive]

well it's still getting faster benchmarks than my Intel mbp (A12Z) iirc

[half walrus]

an M1 emulating an entire OS

[tepid olive]

isn't A12Z scoring like 4500 in geekbench

[half walrus]

specifically an OS that relies on two more emulation layers to even boot

[tepid olive]

A12Z with good acceleration could be usable imo

[half walrus]

there is no machine without KVM that could even dream of even sneezing at native performance

[tepid olive]

still gets close to the snapdragon chip performance

M1 beats Surface in a VM lol

[half walrus]

this isn’t a VM though

it’s like 3

without any hardware virtualisation

[tepid olive]

doesn't that make it even more shameful of microsoft

[half walrus]

you’re nuts if you think it’s possible for multiple layers of non accelerated VMs could run a modern OS at native speeds

[tepid olive]

M1 beats it in 3 VMs then

lol

[half walrus]

what?

[tepid olive]

it's not native but it's still apparently the fastest

[half walrus]

what are you talking about

[tepid olive]

M1 running WOA in a vm beats surface pro running native

[half walrus]

i’m telling you it’s not possible for a machine emulating arm windows like UTM is to come even close to native performance

[tepid olive]

true

[half walrus]

proof?

[lofty juniper]

[tepid olive]

lemme find it again

[lofty juniper]

time for my yearly development visit

[half walrus]

idk what surface specs are

[half walrus]

pay the bean tax

[lofty juniper]

snapdragon 865 iirc

or whatever

stfu i’ve paid my taxes

[tepid olive]

https://www.windowslatest.com/2020/11/29/apple-m1-runs-windows-on-arm-faster-than-the-surface-pro-x/

quick source

i'll find the other one

@half walrus yeah it beats it by a fair margin

[half walrus]

ah

[tepid olive]

and it's cheaper by a good margin too

1149 for a 128gb surface but 128 is unusable

[half walrus]

because it’s using a hypervisor yes

[half walrus]

.

[tepid olive]

if they got hardware virt on iOS it would be really good tho

[half walrus]

UTM emulates the OS, it doesn’t boot it

[tepid olive]

that's what i mean

[half walrus]

well yeah

if i got paid a lot of money i’d be rich

[tepid olive]

ok

there's no way hardware virt is impossible

[half walrus]

in an app, i can’t say if that’s true

not really simple (even possible?) to run a hypervisor holding an OS without root system access

and UTM is the only functional QEMU iOS port i know of

[tepid olive]

i mean we're maybe getting X11 on iOS soon, would be great to have accelerated VMs too

[half walrus]

mind you also

[tepid olive]

X11 with Procursus QEMU could get there?

[half walrus]

iOS has 1500mb of ram

[tepid olive]

A14 has hypervisor too afaik, would be cool even if it requires JB to work

[half walrus]

so

[tepid olive]

not the latest iPads

[half walrus]

how much do they have

[tepid olive]

and if the new iPads with A14X drop, i'd assume they'd have more than 6

6gb iirc lemme check

yeah A12Z has 6

[half walrus]

ok great so

assuming you get jetsam to completely ignore you

you have 4gb of ram max

[tepid olive]

lol if ms is selling a 4gb computer i'm sure you can get it running

[half walrus]

running != usable in any way other than a novelty

[tepid olive]

as i said, when/if we get X11, you'd be able to plug that in a monitor and run it then

[half walrus]

i just don’t think native performance is gonna happen on an apple tablet or phone because they weren’t built in a way that makes that reasonable

[tepid olive]

X11 would run in a VNC

[tepid olive]

iirc A14 has great VM features

not sure tho

[half walrus]

still leaves the memory issue

[tepid olive]

i assume A14X will be 8gb

[half walrus]

still leaves jetsam

[tepid olive]

what does that do

[half walrus]

don’t think ios just lets an app grab 6gb of memory

could be wrong

[tepid olive]

they can't

2/3 max

[half walrus]

it may actually properly work in the app with apples memory management

which is heavenly

[tepid olive]

2/3 of 8gb is fine

X11 with toms wm does not take 4 gbs to run

[half walrus]

2/3gb of ram can’t boot windows

[tepid olive]

i meant 2 thirds of 8gb

[half walrus]

my woa laptop uses 4 idling

[tepid olive]

that's like 5 1/3gb

[half walrus]

ah so 5

yeah

maybe i’ll bite my tongue

[tepid olive]

you'd have an accelerated arm chip with decent scores and 5gb of ram

[half walrus]

but i doubt it ever happens on ios

[tepid olive]

X11 uses like 500mb iirc

[half walrus]

who’s gonna write the hypervisor though

[tepid olive]

An accelerated vm though, good luck

[half walrus]

everyone has amazing ideals for the great new jailbreak they’re gonna write

or the new, better, alternative to an existing tool they’re gonna make

[tepid olive]

Literally all I want is the checkra1n ramdisk

[half walrus]

didn’t they just foss pongo

and the kpf

[tepid olive]

Yep

[half walrus]

so what’s missing i’m confused

[tepid olive]

Had to use an Ubuntu docker to build it

[tepid olive]

Wdym?

[half walrus]

.

[tepid olive]

Yeah

The ramdisk is closed source

[half walrus]

doesn’t it get mounted

[tepid olive]

Or I guess embedded in the bin

[tepid olive]

Yeah at /, then the rootfs gets mounted over it

[half walrus]

i mean isn’t it just a binpack and bootstrap installer

[tepid olive]

There's more

I think

The stuff to mount the rootfs

[half walrus]

can’t be much

[tepid olive]

Loader is a separate dmg that gets mounted later

[tepid olive]

Really I want to see what it's called so I can make my own ramdisk

Or at least how it's getting activated

[half walrus]

doesn’t it get booted by pongo

isn’t that the entire point of pongo

[cloud sundial]

Well shit. Now we have cameren and cameron

[half walrus]

to boot custom ramdisks

although it seems to be getting expanded into an entire preboot environment which i’m so here for

[tepid olive]

Shoot, yeah, I thought about that, find it in the pongo src on the toilet last night and completely forgot later

[half walrus]

that’s been public before the source

[tepid olive]

bathroom is the best place for epiphanies

[half walrus]

iboot tramp -> pongo -> load a custom ramdisk

the kpf being in theirs i’m assuming

idk i’m tired

[tepid olive]

The kpf is a mongo module

[half walrus]

project sandcastle used pongo to load their own, is how they got android booting

[tepid olive]

They create a pongo bin with kpf that autoloads, otherwise you gotta upload and load it yourself

[half walrus]

yup

love all the work they put into obfuscation given the “open source later in 2020” line

[tepid olive]

Same

I just want loader.app open source so I don't have to do they to make my own bootstrapper

[half walrus]

good ol “just write your own then” situation

[tepid olive]

Exactly

[half walrus]

go finish Fugu

someone needs to

[tepid olive]

Also it'll be fun, I need a project that's not adding stuff to procursus

[tepid olive]

TFW I only have A9

[half walrus]

do not write your own checkm8 jb

i promise you you’ll lose your mind a month in if not sooner, if you aren’t familiar with bootchain already

it makes kernel research look well documented

[half walrus]

just implement ur own loader then

fugu’s is reportedly Wack™️

[tepid olive]

That's what I'm trying to do

[half walrus]

into fugu

[tepid olive]

Oh

[half walrus]

wouldn’t recommend patching ch1

ask people who’ve put out patched projects before what they think

get crucified for flipping a bit anymore

[tepid olive]

What about... regular QEMU

It works fine

[tepid olive]

obf is gone tho

(i think)

they don't need it anymore

[half walrus]

how can you view it on the screen tho

[tepid olive]

since SEP stuff and KPF is 100% oss

[tepid olive]

X11

[half walrus]

how do you view x11 on the screen

[tepid olive]

you use VNC

[half walrus]

does it require external hardware

[tepid olive]

yes or no

[half walrus]

/ another machine

[tepid olive]

Use a vnc client to localhost

we can have a iOS VNC ig

in the app

[half walrus]

eh

that’s so barely not cheating

[young totem]

Is there any semi unthetered jailbreak in development for iOS 14.2?

[tepid olive]

How lol

[half walrus]

nobody has stated their intention to do so

[tepid olive]

Its a major qemu feature and allows for clients with more features than utm

[half walrus]

be patient, it’ll get here

[tepid olive]

you'd be able to make a tweak to swap springboard with it?

just very hard

and not much different

You dont even need x11 idk why althio keeps mentioning that

[half walrus]

jb has good terminal emulators, just download an ssh app and install openssh

which like

[tepid olive]

jb does not have good terminal emulators so your point is moot

[half walrus]

yes it does though

do exactly what i said with termius

it’s nuts

[tepid olive]

I do it everyday with Prompt

And its way better for the actual console work I do vs newterm or mterminal

[half walrus]

almost same thing as this

but not quite

[gaunt mesa]

gm

[half walrus]

having to VNC into your own machine to run a VM is jank

but i guess it does count

[tepid olive]

Not really

[half walrus]

it’s very jank

sshing to localhost on your own machine is jank

just an acceptable level of jank

[tepid olive]

But can you provide a reason why either are jank

When they both work really well and are preferable to current alternatives

[half walrus]

because it’s replacing a proper OS native implementation with an existing system being bastardised for the purpose of working around the OS

[tepid olive]

And it works better

[half walrus]

yeah so it’s an acceptable level of jank

[tepid olive]

Hm