development

[magic hazel]

apps that are 32 bit cant be distributed

full stop

😭

i need xcode to lift its armv7 nonsense

so you could run this on modern macos

modern xcode can support ios 9 i think

ios 8 requires sum shit that just doesn't exist

[magic hazel]

hoping i dont have to rebuild llvm

[slim bramble]

Trolled

It’s not even that long

[magic hazel]

On a 2013 mac pro?

[grim sparrow]

was gonna say

dude is on the trash can

[slim bramble]

Oh

😭

[magic hazel]

You sure about that one

[grim sparrow]

its a few minutes on my m3 pro

[magic hazel]

Takes 30 on this

[slim bramble]

Yeah m4 pro is insanely fast

[magic hazel]

Swift is fast

llvm is not

ye im hoping to get an m4 pro at some point

but

i have to get from corp

[slim bramble]

Just put -j20

[magic hazel]

bcus its way too expensive

[slim bramble]

And enjoy 1min compile time

[magic hazel]

apple overcharges out the wazoo

plus no upgradeable anything so you better be happy with what you pick

anyways

corp pays so idc

gonna take a few months tho

mean time this mac pro isnt terrible

[slim bramble]

Someone got m4 (pro?) unused for 1000 here

[gentle grove]

purchase an Intel 265k

[slim bramble]

^

[gentle grove]

Jk cross compilation sucks ass

[magic hazel]

✨ 🇦🇺 ✨

base m4 pro

and obv i wouldnt get this

bcus 512gb is unusable

and idek what apple is smoking in terms of storage costs

[gentle grove]

they're cost optimizing

well profit optimizing

[magic hazel]

300 bucks

for 512 extra

of storage

[gentle grove]

cost from the perspective or the company

[magic hazel]

is actually a scam

like

a full on

proper

scam

that is a scam

like ima level with you here

this is genuinely giving proper scam

that 8tb being 3.6k

is genuinely fucking insane

they linearly scale price after 2tb

that is so fucked

an 8tb nvme is about 1.3k

how the fuck

do you mark it up 2k

like actually

[gentle grove]

Damn llvm must be way smaller for macos target or something

llvm build times on 285k are 4 mins on linux

and it should be significantly faster than m3 pro in raw performance I'm pretty sure

[magic hazel]

its apple llvm

bro without tg pro my mac pro would have actually been dead weight at first compile

even with full blast fans im sitting stable at 85c

apple doesnt even turn on the fans

😭

[gentle grove]

almost 3x the cpumark score

[magic hazel]

i mean

when you design a program to run on a specific set of hardware

and you design it

to compile

for that hardware

theres no doubt

itll be faster

[gentle grove]

that's not how this works

[magic hazel]

also

theres 2 llvms

for swift

its apple swift llvm

sep proj

sep branch

its probably cut down

a bit

[gentle grove]

So that goes back to what I said originally

can you type in a sentence

[grim sparrow]

theres like 10 forks of llvm in the mix

[magic hazel]

no

[grim sparrow]

that exist in the world

[magic hazel]

indeed

well

10 big forks

[magic hazel]

thousands of others

ye

are u using apples fork

or just

straight llvm

[gentle grove]

yeah but nobody uses this shit

lame

[magic hazel]

swift 5.10 compilation using the following command takes about 1.5 hours on my mac pro including llvm i think?

    --release \
    --ios \
    --install-prefix=/tmp/swift-ios-toolchain \
    --darwin-deployment-version-ios=7.0 \
    --extra-cmake-options="-DLLVM_BUILD_RUNTIME=OFF -DLLVM_BUILD_COMPILER_RT=OFF -DSWIFT_INCLUDE_TESTS=OFF" \
    --skip-build-benchmarks \
    --skip-test-ios \
    --skip-test-ios-simulator \
    --skip-build-linux \
    --skip-build-freebsd \
    --skip-build-cygwin \
    --skip-test-swift```

actually maybe its more like 1

idk

i try and skp everything thats not absolutely required for what im doing

compiler rt adds like

another 30-60 mins

and its completely useless for what im doing

then tests add a tonne

and they're useless too

lmao i love how many warnings u get when compiling swift

[magic hazel]

aw man

didnt fix it

oh well

thats alr

[manic forum]

chat

i said i'd take a break from obsessively making more shijima ports but i think i'm gonna relapse

[tepid nacelle]

do it

[magic hazel]

port to legacy ios

[manic forum]

i was thinking internet explorer 5 but i guess that works too

[magic hazel]

W

[magic hazel]

What happened

Did Blud leave

Or get banned

[tepid olive]

Seems like he left again

[fervent frigate]

he got banned

[slim bramble]

https://tenor.com/view/me-after-a-long-day-gif-9440971594322776429

[fervent frigate]

it’s truth trust

[light owl]

"16player malware" is not misinformation

[snow charm]

yo

do we know who the dev of Sideloadly is?

first time I'm trying to use it, and... they mapped alt-G to open a settings popup

which seems really fucking counter-productive for an app that wants you to type in your AppleID...

I can only assume they've never tested the macOS version?

[native dune]

@kind herald Can you snipe

[faint lion]

nebula deleted a message

im pretty sure its part of iosgods but I could be wrong

Message ID: 1426711732377747576 · Oct 11, 2025, 11:23 PM

[light owl]

Thanks

[magic hazel]

really?

damn

thats crazy

[velvet path]

what does alt-G even do normally

I’ve never used that shortcut in my life and I’ve used the macOS version before (when my daily laptop’s screen proceeded to cease to exist) and haven’t had issues

[torn oriole]

I'm certain they have, no way you make a menu bar item work at all without any diagnosis/testing

[snow charm]

that's how you type the @ character on macOS

[velvet path]

I have a normal keyboard and just use the shift+function key thing

[torn oriole]

Is this a keyboard layout thing I'm missing out on

Yeah

[velvet path]

it’s possible they just didn’t account for that specific shortcut because I’ve never heard of that either

[snow charm]

okay fuck me, this is a Swiss layout thing then

and Google fucked me too with regional search results

I hate all of tech

I guess this just downgrades it to "using alt commands is a bad idea because they're used to type things, use cmd instead"

[magic hazel]

grr svgs are the worst

how do you convert svgs to a font?

[magic hazel]

Done

So much better

Fonts are pissfuck small

They’re fast

This is far superior

The dream may come true

Don’t need svg libraries either

[gentle grove]

Do you just redraw them in font format? Or did you find something to convert somehow

[magic hazel]

Font forge

Does it basically all for you

[gentle grove]

With the same dimensions* that's a better way t word it

[magic hazel]

Simple python script

Apple has really cooked up tho like

I get why they did what they did

But sf symbols are horribly optimised

Dynamically calculates path

💀

And I think it’s so they can do their colour and shading shenanigans

[radiant idol]

they also have animations between symbols

[magic hazel]

ah yes

true

i mean

they use a number of private apis

honestly i dont know how they do their rendering

and obviously my implementation wont have all that fancystuff

youll get symbols with identical api and sizing and behaviout, as well as the ability to tint

having it be a font makes a lot more sense than loading an svg

ngl

bcus all of what i said is easily doable

plus now you dont need to import 62k items

😭

realistically apple shouldnt be able to get upset with me asw

not when this exists
https://github.com/brendanballon/sfsymbols-svg

HA it works

lets fucking go i knew this shit would be easy

now api backporting

plus this is sf symbols 7

so you can use this on like

ios 15

to get ios 26 symbols

[magic hazel]

okay

s'

update

it works on ios 6

bu not json lookup

so

im going to need to hardcode

6k symbols

2.5mb json

💀

[magic hazel]

LMAO

i figured out why

it had the same freaking table

FOR EVERY WEIGHT

no wonder on ios 6 it crashes

💀

then again

now its compiled

it takes forever to compile

but whtever

at least at runtime its instant lookup

it is a 6k long file tho

💀

of just

json

1 big dictionary

wait

i wonder why on ios 7

it doesnt crash

but on ios 6 it does

odd

bcus its not my method of presenting

if u use direct hex

it works fine

so it has to be json

okay..

nvmn

not gonna compile

holy fuck

it hasnt even finished the armv7 slice

Anyone know a good solution?

I did fix it

But it’s still slow

Bcus yhe json although no longer 2.5mb

It’s still 25kb

And 6k lines

I deeply do not want to precompile a 6k dictionary

[granite frigate]

https://tenor.com/view/guy-arguing-guy-talking-to-wall-talking-brick-wall-gif-18667615

[magic hazel]

k so

i need help

the font is like

offsetting the text kinda??

anyone know why this is happening?

[grim sparrow]

whats the code for it

very difficult to debug otherwise

[lyric heron]

@wind ravine hi

[kind herald]

@wind ravine hi

[floral notch]

You are given the privilege of contacting him if you subscribe to his Patreon

https://sideloadly.io/#faq

My question/issue is not answered. How can I get support?

You can create a new post in r/Sideloadly or if you are a Patreon supporter, you can send us a message for one-to-one support.

[snow charm]

alright well, that's a no from me then

[indigo peak]

have you tried typing your email in notes and then copy/paste it into the email box?

[snow charm]

yes, I did that long ago

but it's still just... bad design

[indigo peak]

agreed, just suggesting an alternative

[fading shell]

today i learned, thought this was universal across layouts. german (mac) uses ALT + L

[magic hazel]

Well, it’s just an NSTextAttachment of an image

But

The one of the left is the real SFSymbol

And the one on the right is my font

[grim sparrow]

yes but

its significantly more difficult to help you debug the code

without seeing the code

[magic hazel]

Oh like

My rendering code?

Which code

The code that turns the font into an image

Or the plain NSAttachment

I’ll send both

[slim bramble]

I thought every mac layout had the @ # key 😭

[magic hazel]

@grim sparrow rendering code part 1

import UIKit
import CoreText

// MARK: - Symbol Weight
public enum SymbolWeightA: String {
    case ultralight, thin, light, regular, medium, semibold, bold, heavy, black
}

// MARK: - Symbol Scale
public enum SymbolScaleA {
    case small, medium, large
}

// MARK: - SFSymbols Manager
public class SFSymbols {
    public static let shared = SFSymbols()
    
    private var lookup: [UInt32: UInt16] = [:]
    private var registeredFonts: Set<String> = []

    private init() { loadLookupDat() }

    private func fnv1aHash(_ s: String) -> UInt32 {
        var h: UInt32 = 0x811C9DC5
        for byte in s.utf8 {
            h ^= UInt32(byte)
            h = (h &* 0x01000193) & 0xFFFFFFFF
        }
        return h
    }

    private func loadLookupDat() {
        let bundle = Bundle.module
        guard let url = bundle.url(forResource: "lookup", withExtension: "dat"),
              let data = try? Data(contentsOf: url) else {
            return
        }

        var cursor = 0
        while cursor + 6 <= data.count {
            let hash = UInt32(data[cursor]) |
                       UInt32(data[cursor + 1]) << 8 |
                       UInt32(data[cursor + 2]) << 16 |
                       UInt32(data[cursor + 3]) << 24

            let code = UInt16(data[cursor + 4]) |
                       UInt16(data[cursor + 5]) << 8

            lookup[hash] = code
            cursor += 6
        }
    }

    private func registerFontIfNeeded(weight: SymbolWeightA) {
        guard !registeredFonts.contains(weight.rawValue) else { return }
        let bundle = Bundle.module
        if let url = bundle.url(forResource: "SFSymbols-\(weight.rawValue)", withExtension: "ttf") {
            CTFontManagerRegisterFontsForURL(url as CFURL, .process, nil)
            registeredFonts.insert(weight.rawValue)
        }
    }

    public func font(weight: SymbolWeightA, size: CGFloat) -> UIFont? {
        registerFontIfNeeded(weight: weight)
        return UIFont(name: "SFSymbols-\(weight.rawValue)", size: size)
    }

    public func unicode(for name: String) -> String? {
        let hash = fnv1aHash(name)
        guard let code = lookup[hash],
              let scalar = UnicodeScalar(UInt32(code)) else { return nil }
        return String(scalar)
    }
}```

part 2

// MARK: - UIImage Backport Extension

public extension UIImage {

    /// Backport SymbolConfiguration for iOS <13
    @available(iOS, introduced: 6.0, obsoleted: 13.0)
    struct SymbolConfigurationA {
        public var pointSize: CGFloat
        public var weight: SymbolWeightA
        public var scale: SymbolScaleA

        public init(pointSize: CGFloat = 17, weight: SymbolWeightA = .regular, scale: SymbolScaleA = .medium) {
            self.pointSize = pointSize
            self.weight = weight
            self.scale = scale
        }
    }
    
    typealias SymbolConfiguration = SymbolConfigurationA

    @available(iOS, introduced: 6.0, obsoleted: 13.0)
    convenience init?(systemName name: String, withConfiguration config: SymbolConfigurationA? = nil) {
        let config = config ?? SymbolConfigurationA()

        var fontSize = config.pointSize*1.22
        switch config.scale {
        case .small: fontSize *= 0.75
        case .medium: break
        case .large: fontSize *= 1.25
        }

        guard let unicode = SFSymbols.shared.unicode(for: name),
              let font = SFSymbols.shared.font(weight: config.weight, size: fontSize) else { return nil }

        let attrString = NSAttributedString(string: unicode, attributes: [
            .font: font,
            .foregroundColor: UIColor.black
        ])
        let imageSize = attrString.size()

        UIGraphicsBeginImageContextWithOptions(imageSize, false, 0)
        attrString.draw(at: .zero)
        let image = UIGraphicsGetImageFromCurrentImageContext()
        UIGraphicsEndImageContext()

        guard let cgImage = image?.cgImage else { return nil }
        self.init(cgImage: cgImage, scale: UIScreen.main.scale, orientation: .up)
    }

}

part 2 is really the "rendering"

part 1 is symbol selection

and heres the actual app code

import UIKit
import SFSymbolsCompatKit
import UIKitCompatKit
import UIKitExtensions

class ViewController: UIViewController {
    var viewStack: UIStackView!
    
    
    override func viewDidLoad() {
        viewStack = UIStackView()
        viewStack.axis = .vertical
        viewStack.distribution = .fill
        viewStack.alignment = .center
        
        let attachment = NSTextAttachment()
        attachment.image = UIImage(systemName: "circle", withConfiguration: .init(pointSize: 100, weight: .regular, scale: .medium))

        let imageString = NSMutableAttributedString(attachment: attachment)
        let textString = NSAttributedString(string: "Please try again")
        imageString.append(textString)

        let label = UILabel()
        label.attributedText = imageString
        label.sizeToFit()
        
        viewStack.addArrangedSubview(label)
        view.addSubview(viewStack)
        
        viewStack.pinToEdges(of: view)
    }
}```

[grim sparrow]

var fontSize = config.pointSize*1.22
switch config.scale {
case .small: fontSize *= 0.75
case .medium: break
case .large: fontSize *= 1.25
}

are you sure these are the right magic numbers

[magic hazel]

ignore those rn bcus im using medium

which is regular

and i have regular

in

the real one

medium is no scale default is no scale

import UIKit
import UIKitExtensions

class ViewController: UIViewController {
    var viewStack: UIStackView!
    
    
    override func viewDidLoad() {
        viewStack = UIStackView()
        viewStack.axis = .vertical
        viewStack.distribution = .fill
        viewStack.alignment = .center
        
        let attachment = NSTextAttachment()
        attachment.image = UIImage(systemName: "circle", withConfiguration: UIImage.SymbolConfiguration(pointSize: 100, weight: .regular, scale: .default))

        let imageString = NSMutableAttributedString(attachment: attachment)
        let textString = NSAttributedString(string: "Please try again")
        imageString.append(textString)

        let label = UILabel()
        label.attributedText = imageString
        label.sizeToFit()
        
        viewStack.addArrangedSubview(label)
        view.addSubview(viewStack)
        
        viewStack.pinToEdges(of: view)
    }
}```

real code^

that part is the same

[fading shell]

wrong terminal pal

[magic hazel]

indeed

anyways yea thats the code for it anyways

[snow charm]

oh I promise you nothing is universal

tfw Preview.app wants me to use cmd+shift+¨ to zoom in, because Apple uses some wrong layout info

[magic hazel]

lmao mac keybinds are so awful

"cmd is the one key to do it all" my ass

[fading shell]

Ctrl + / is one of my favorites

[magic hazel]

i rebind control to cmd on every mac i use icl

and honestly im considering just mapping the function key

its close to where control is on every other keyboard

idk why apple decided to be special

[fading shell]

the issue is

there is no / key on my keyboard

[magic hazel]

WHAT

what kind of keyboard

are you using

😭

[fading shell]

it's shift + 7

[magic hazel]

the fuck??

bro what keyboard is this

[fading shell]

german

qwertz

[magic hazel]

why teh fuck

does a german keyboard

not have /

how do you do any terminal work

😭

shift 7 is painful vro thats cooked

so what

[fading shell]

shift + 7

[magic hazel]

ctrl / is

ctrl shift 7

💀

[fading shell]

no

it doesn't work

[magic hazel]

oh it just doesn't work

wild

[fading shell]

every keybind that's ctrl + /

just doesn't work for me

[magic hazel]

thats cooked

[fading shell]

yes

[magic hazel]

😭

i mean honestly

if they're gonna use

an english keyboard layout

just put the extra chars in the numbers

or change the layout

okay apple wtf

apple is definitely doing tricks with sf symbols

im 100% certain of it

they are NOT treating it like a regular uiimage

i mean for one, the spacing between my symbol and the text is COMPLETELY different

ima try and manually fix that bounding box

gonna regen the fonts ig

k well

ive regened the fonts

[rocky oriole]

ok

[magic hazel]

ok wtf

apple is doing smthing

no matter how i size my font

its always that bounding box

[magic hazel]

k well

ive made it a bit better

its still imperfect

but its better

atp

ima just accept this is a limitation

[magic hazel]

Realistically you're going to have to recenter it anyways and most use of sfsymbols is gonna be an sfsymbol on its own

so i should be okay

You'll also have to manually copy the fonts from the pkg but again it shouldn't be too bad

ughhhh

template rendering is ios 7+

so no colouring on ios 6 what

hmmm maybe i just provide a colour api that directly colours it for those on ios 6

yeah so tintcolor and template rendering is ios 7+ so i'll just provide a method that allows manually setting the colour on ios 6

[rocky oriole]

-# this was htrowiis idea

[magic hazel]

yikes

i mean fair

but then again

thats what a devlog is

this one is just public

lmao

[rocky oriole]

a devlog

is

not

typing

like this

[magic hazel]

well thats how i type

¯_(ツ)_/¯

it just is the way that it is

if i have a long thought -> long message

continuous burst of short thoughts -> continuous burst of short messages

🔥

works perfectly on its own

[alpine star]

ease in out?

make it do like a pop

shrink to centre and expand

[light owl]

@kind herald Hey moderator this is offtopic

[magic hazel]

i mean thats all up to you

i just backport

alr so

what is something people would like to see backported to legacy ios (mainly asking developers)

[native dune]

Nothing

[light owl]

Nothing

[magic hazel]

guess ill find more stuff myself then 🔥

[rocky oriole]

Fuck off shadow

[magic hazel]

different question, anyone know some popular modern open source uikit apps?

or tweaks

either one is fine

[rocky oriole]

is it that hard to just leave a moderator alone and not ping them for no reason

[magic hazel]

even better, anyone develop any? since i have a pretty good workflow im fairly confident my overlays are mature enough atp to easily backport most modern uikit projects

actually

i know what ill backport

scenedelegate

[pliant fossil]

Fuck off shadow

[rocky oriole]

here it comes

watching it happen

[hexed knot]

https://tenor.com/view/zyzz-miring-fuark-gif-18026420

[gentle grove]

Fuck off word

[kind herald]

Fuck off word

[magic hazel]

are you allowed to have 2 binaries in an ios app

not for app store

but sideloaded

[pliant fossil]

oh sorry

[grim sparrow]

Define

Cause like

Frameworks are binaries

Extensions are binaries

[magic hazel]

Main binaries

I want to have a loader application

Yhat at runtime picks between two binaries

One for iOS 3-5

One for iOS 6+

[grim sparrow]

How would you spawn

[magic hazel]

posix spawn

?

[grim sparrow]

Not allowed in sandbox

[magic hazel]

Grrrrrrrrr

Is there any method

[grim sparrow]

Not for stock

[magic hazel]

L apple

Grrrr that’s actually really really annoying wtf

[grim sparrow]

Unless you want to start using exploits but then you’ll need different exploits for every version you intend to target

[magic hazel]

Yeah that’s not

Gonna happen

[grim sparrow]

But why do you need to do this

[magic hazel]

iOS 6+ uses swift and my modern UIKit implementation

iOS 3-5 uses the person who made the clients ui

In objective c

[grim sparrow]

But like

You can bundle objc and swift in one binary

[magic hazel]

You can’t target armv6 or iOS 3 in Xcode 😭

And the app will crash if any swift code or even the swift dylibs are called

[grim sparrow]

Weak link

[magic hazel]

You can’t weak link the swift runtime what 😭 you can do that for a static library but Xcode doesn’t listen for swift

Even if you provide the dylibs yourself

As soon as it detects swift code

In the same place

At least in my testing

Even if it could

iOS 3 and armv6

NEVER happening in modern Xcode

[grim sparrow]

Does iOS 3 support multi arch binaries

[magic hazel]

Yes

I think

[grim sparrow]

Then just build the slices separately and merge them

[magic hazel]

Yeah I thought of this

One issue

There’s 2 armv6 devices yhat support 3-5

There’s like

10

Armv7

Remember old Xcode can’t compile yhe swift code

So either armv7 for 3-5 is cut

Or armv7 for 6+ is cut

How are you allowed to call a framework binary but not a main application one

That makes no sense Whats the point of that restriction

If you’re going to run malicious code just do it in a framework

😭

[grim sparrow]

Because it’s still executing in your process

[magic hazel]

Right it’s not spawning an entirely new one

[grim sparrow]

And it goes through Apple review

[magic hazel]

I MEAN OKAY

FOR APP STORE

[grim sparrow]

Their biggest fear is people downloading binaries and posix spawning them

[magic hazel]

BUT WHY A BLANKET OS LEVEL BAN

😭

[magic hazel]

But why

Just review

[grim sparrow]

nonono

The app that they reviewed containing code of download another binary and execute it

[magic hazel]

Ahhhhhh

[grim sparrow]

That’s locked behind a feature flag that’s disabled during review

[magic hazel]

So they os level ban it

So it can’t be like

Remotely activated

[grim sparrow]

Sure

[magic hazel]

Why not just provide an Xcode debugging flag then

That Apple can easily see

You’ve enabled

And prevents all builds with it turned on

To be submitted

Like they do with JIT

[grim sparrow]

Eh we only got jit so the debugger works

[magic hazel]

I know but they could do the same thing

[magic hazel]

Xcode preview on device is supposed to work but doesn’t because of JIT

😭

Idek why yhe provide yhe option

It doesn’t work

A first I thought it was because I had a free account

But even with a paid developer account

It still doesn’t work

[frank fossil]

it’s locked behind the no-sandbox/container entitlement.. like yeah it could be straight up a privilege escalation. TrollStore wouldn’t need no “installation method”

[magic hazel]

yeah i get that it can be very easily exploited

but like

can't every single os do it?

like literally every single os

[gentle grove]

do what, execute arbitrary code? or what I'm a little lost in this conversation

[magic hazel]

spawn another process

😭

[gentle grove]

What's happening here above

[magic hazel]

i want to have a loader binary

that at runtime

picks between two binaries

one for ios 3-5

one for ios 6+

i cant do that

bcus apple doesnt let you spawn another binary

😭

[gentle grove]

Spawn another process where the new process's executable is still inside your reviewed app code?

[magic hazel]

there is no review

who is reviewing shit

this is ios 5

also no

what id do is

compile ios 3-5 app

compile ios 6+

plop both bundles

into the loader

make a loader binary

that picks at runtime

which to process to spawn

goes into the bundle

uses posix spawn to startup the process

and boom

[gentle grove]

In theory when you submit an app to the app store, it is reviewed by apple

so the code that would be in that

Just asking from the perspective of apple

[magic hazel]

yes sure but i dont want to submit jack

i get it

but

who cares about that

i just need it to do it

apple wont let me regardless

[gentle grove]

Because that comes up with the logic for why you would be blocked

[magic hazel]

personal use?

enterprise use?

[gentle grove]

No

[magic hazel]

no i know the answer is no

but

those are two perfectly valid cases

[gentle grove]

It seemed like you were asking why Apple was blocking you from spawning a process, so I'm trying to figure out exactly what you do, to try and come up with why they would block it

[magic hazel]

well i know why i get it

i just dont know why they dont let you disable it

for non app store apps

if you have a jailbreak already is the restriction lifted system wide?

[gentle grove]

they probably aren't designing with people jailbreaking in mind, to make a bypass for supporting g it

[magic hazel]

their own processes do it iirc

there is no way they have an entire operating system

where not a single system process

uses posix spawn

[gentle grove]

Yeah but not apps

[magic hazel]

sure but it means that the os can do it, so my question is, on jailbroken ios, where you can mostly do whatever, is that restriction lifted? i know you can run unsigned binaries, but i dont know about this

[sonic totem]

If you’re unsandboxed you can use posix_spawn()

That is what stops you

And with a jailbreak you can run unsandboxed

[gentle grove]

^

the os isn't gonna suddenly act completely different the moment you jb

[gentle grove]

in sandbox is what I meant here

[orchid fulcrum]

has anyone dealed with macos safari hooking before ? what do i need to do to add a button to the toolbar ? simply adding a subview makes it so its not clickable so i guess i need to use NSToolbar api, can anybody point me in the right direction

[fervent frigate]

sand fox

[fervent frigate]

it do trust

ios has this in it

if jailbreak then

[floral notch]

today i learned why -[NSHTTPURLResponse valueForHTTPHeaderField:] exists https://github.com/swiftlang/swift-corelibs-foundation/issues/4338#issuecomment-1118993332 truly incredible engineering

incredibly swift turnaround, i might add. took only 4 years. impressive

[magic hazel]

Okay so you just need to un sandbox. Isnt there an exploit for that on nearly every version of iOS minus like 17.0.1+?

Actually I got an idea

I build the 6+ binary i to the loader

So that I no longer have to spawn a binary on modern iOS

But on iOS 3-5 where un sandboxxing should be trivia

I spawn a binary

[sonic totem]

There’s a jailbreak for almost all as well

CoreTrust bypass too you’re right

[sonic totem]

Sure?

But why do you need to spawn things

Surely there’s a better solution

[magic hazel]

There isn't

You can't compile swift for ios 3-5

You can't even compile a binary for iOS 3 that has swift on ios 6

because modern xcode doesn't support ios 3

[hexed knot]

🤦‍♂️

[magic hazel]

The client I'm making a modern UI for is built for iOS 3

It's not my choice

I can't drop support because it's not my client

[light owl]

Who tf still using ios 3

[hexed knot]

Not a single person

[fading shell]

I mean it is nice of them to care for older versions

But there is a point where it just becomes ridiculous

iOS 3 is one of those points

[floral notch]

iOS 3 is probably easy to emulate

[magic hazel]

i mean they wanna do it

¯_(ツ)_/¯

and they're doing it

they already have

it already works

lmao

[floral notch]

i respect it

[fading shell]

Do they have a reason

[light owl]

Autism

[magic hazel]

they could

so they did

i dont see it as any more dumb that any other hobby

ppl would say the same stuff about jailbreaking

😭

[fading shell]

If it's a hobby, fair

Client sounds very business-y

[magic hazel]

i guess

it's a proper client

i mean

their setup is odd

they dont even use xcode

they manually compile via clang

on linux

they use scons

[sonic totem]

[magic hazel]

i mean results are results i cant complain

[light owl]

@native dune Can you figure out how to transmit images of local media on iphone to an accessory connected over bluetooth using iap2 and externalaccessory and mfi

[native dune]

MediaItemArtworkFileTransferIdentifier

[light owl]

It doesnt work

[native dune]

Ok

[light owl]

Fix it

@native dune Fix it

[kind herald]

@native dune Can you figure out how to transmit images of local media on iphone to an accessory connected over bluetooth using iap2 and externalaccessory and mfi

[light owl]

@native dune Can you figure out how to transmit images of local media on iphone to an accessory connected over bluetooth using iap2 and externalaccessory and mfi

[slim bramble]

@native dune Can you figure out how to transmit images of local media on iphone to an accessory connected over bluetooth using iap2 and externalaccessory and mfi

[quaint rain]

@native dune Can you figure out how to transmit images of local media on iphone to an accessory connected over bluetooth using iap2 and externalaccessory and mfi

[rocky oriole]

me obviously

[light owl]

@native dune Can you figure out how to transmit images of local media on iphone to an accessory connected over bluetooth using iap2 and externalaccessory and mfi

[light owl]

@native dune Nvm fuck you

Youre useless

[slim bramble]

as always

[native dune]

This vibe coding shit not for me bruh

[wooden yarrow]

vibe coding has bad vibes

[native dune]

It pmo I don't know how people do this

Nothing gayer than giving an AI instructions over and over because ur shits not working

[hasty ruin]

16player

[magic hazel]

Real, ai would he so much better at coding if it actually compiled and ran the code first

😭

[native dune]

Well it can but that's not the solution here

[quaint rain]

boykisser_shy

[kind herald]

all the nocturne developers are gay then

[slim bramble]

friendly fire

[light owl]

@kind herald Hey moderator this user is being off topic in the development channel. Please remove them.

[light owl]

@kind herald Hey moderator this user is being off topic in the development channel. Please remove them.

[magic hazel]

decided ill just make my own dc client from scratch

🔥

i love swift

makes networking so damn easy

[magic hazel]

There is this guy

who is determined

to tell me

swift runs on ios 5

and im lying

😭

like blud what 😭

[hasty ruin]

like blud what 😭

[torn oriole]

like blud what 😭

[light owl]

like blud what 😭

[kind herald]

like blud what 😭

[hallow scarab]

like blud what 😭

[quaint rain]

like blud what 😭

[clear lichen]

like blud what 😭

[gentle grove]

shut up all of you

[gentle grove]

I hope you get muted for off topic

[hallow scarab]

Yes mute hydrate

[gentle grove]

No maxine is the one spamming and off topic

Hydrate is fine

[hallow scarab]

oh

idk

I don’t check this channel because I have no reason to

[gentle grove]

Take my word for it

[clear lichen]

Hop on #general unc

[grim sparrow]

Why couldn’t it

[magic hazel]

NSObject is completely different apparently C++ is older and there's a bunch of features missing from that, the compiler never intended to support it, most of the STDLIB has types that just don't exist in ios 6 so you'd have to strip those out, all of currency including sendable and mainactor which work on ios 6 wouldnt work youd have to strip that out

[grim sparrow]

but you could add support

you just won't because its more work than jsut recompiling the toolchain

[magic hazel]

supporting ios 6 was not just recompiling the toolchain 💀

[grim sparrow]

how much work was it actually other than just some patches from the git histroy

[magic hazel]

Rewriting objc_allocWithZone was a decent chunk of work

Other than that it was mostly pre chill

Just a lot of testing

finding all the functions that don't work and replacing them with ones that do that i either knew existed or had to go look for online

the git history was nearly useless

[grim sparrow]

why did you have to rewrite it

[magic hazel]

rewrite the call*

because the modern way it was being called spawned objc_allocWithZone which doesn't exist

the selector "allocWithZone" does however

they aren't immediately interchangeable tho

so i had to do a bunch of bridging

stubbing out parts of the selector based allocwithzone that do exist on the modern version that don't on it

getting that to work was probably what took most of my time

bcus i was in the dark

[grim sparrow]

spill the idea

wahts the elevator pitch

[magic hazel]

ai was no help, and online wasn't either

and since its not in the stdlib you have to recompile from scratch everytime

which on the trash can was annoying asf

so it probably took longer than it should have

but it wasn't awful to do no

supporting ios 5 is basically impossible though

you'd need to somehow compile against its objc library

you can't even compile against ios 6 without numerous build errors

mostly related to missing c++ functions

ios 5 would probably have even more

not to mention xcode can't even build for ios 5

so its a waste of time either way

even if i somehow managed to get it working

which is highly unlikely

youd have a modern toolchain

and no ide to use it in

no sdk to compile against

and thats ASSUMING compiling against ios 5's objc would even solve the issue

the fact you get the error "Missing symbol, OBJC_CLASS_$NSOBJCT" made me leave immediately

NSObject is the core of all of objc

that's like saying the error you're getting is there is no runtime language to go off

The other thing

Is swift was built for iOS 6 at first Anya’s

Anyways

I was patching yhe toolchain and rewriting one or two parts of it

Supporting iOS 5 wiuld require major rewrites

And at that point I can’t exactly claim it to be “native swift”

Hell I don’t even know if it’d play nice with how Xcode expects it to be

Maybe one day I’ll be bored enough to do it

But I did iOS 6 because it’s always been my target platform for legacy development

I never cared much for iOS 5 even before I found out swift could run on iOS 6

[crisp frost]

Sorry

[magic hazel]

Other than allow with zone and data destructor, yhe work wasn’t so much hard as it was just long

So many functions and methods requiring hours of research to find solutions to since there’s no documentation for these things

[magic hazel]

lmao fair

In the end I’d say I patched around 60 methods in the swift overlay and maybe 40 internal ones? And 2-3 complete overhauls of a method

[harsh junco]

Vendor your own libcxx/libc++

[magic hazel]

That’s fine when deploying an app

Not so much when compiling the swift toolchain itself

In theory yes, it could work

But you’d the be reliant on even more external libraries

For me I wouldn’t care

But I want this to be as approachable for a modern developer as possible

[harsh junco]

So vendor modern libc libcpp libobjc

[magic hazel]

Yeah at that point nah

[rocky oriole]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/688124600269144162/1427057769894252554/antyting.gif

[harsh junco]

as approachable for a modern developer as possible

no modern stuff
???

[magic hazel]

Adding 3 library dependencies does not make it approachable

[marsh ocean]

let d=`4{5*qH?>?Hq\\?*{5\\q4?H?.R+,+H+,+H+,+4+,+,+*+,
+,         +4+,+H+,+>+,+*+                         ,+
>+        ,+z+,+H+,+*+,+H+,+                       .H
,+        ,H,+,H,+,*,+,*,+,+,                      *,
+,        *,+,z,+     ,>,+,4,                      +,
z,                    +,p,+,H     ,+,.>,-,H,-,H,+, *,
-, 4,+,4,             -,*,-,p   ,-6+6-6+*,-,z,-6+6 -6
*, -6+6-6     .4,-,H,-,H,-,*   ,-,f,-,*,-,p,-,R,-, *,
-, zf,-,*     ,-,H,-,.*-,-H   -,-H-,-*-,-f-,-*-,-H -,
-*            -,-R-,-*-,-H-,  -4-,-H-,     -*-,-H- ,-
.A                    Rs4AfA4 s4ARA*A              HA
>s                    4AHA`/* #######              ##
## ###*/.             replace (/\s+/g,     ''),C=" "+
(( ":+#"+ "\n")),     o="";/* */for(let i=0;i<d./* ##
*/ length ;i+=1){     const e =d.charCodeAt(i)-32, r=
/*        */Math.floor(e/10)    ,c=e%10,O=C[c];o+= O.
/*         */repeat(r)}/*#        */console.log(o) ;;
/*                                                 ##
###################################################*/

[quaint path]

how to run

[marsh ocean]

node

node [filename].js

[quaint path]

im too lazy to get node

uhhh ill spin up a vm that comes with node

[marsh ocean]

what distro do you use

[hexed knot]

How could making a VM possibly be easier than installing nodejs or bun

[light owl]

Some shit @crisp frost would do because she doesnt want random code running directly on her pc

[quaint path]

fedora

[quaint path]

(i swear im not making excuses to not run it)

[hexed knot]

Nice excuse

[acoustic imp]

does the public know anything ab apples like internal servers? like specs/os, jus wondering

i asume they made custom everything

[quaint path]

Thank you

[native dune]

stripped down macos on apple silicon

well atleast private compute cloud

[timid furnace]

Not much

I know about some of their hardware and some of their software stack

But it's scratching the surface really

High chance they don't run entirely on internal silicon, but they definitely do some things

Also they're a very large user of AWS

[acoustic imp]

oh, thx

[timid furnace]

Do you have a specific question

[acoustic imp]

no i was jus like wondering generally, like cpu/ram/etc, but idk if thats to specific

also like for icloud, like is it all HDDs or like mixed ssd/hdd

🤷‍♂️

jus wonderin

[timid furnace]

Yea no that's too specific

And also it would vary a lot

No big company has a homogenous fleet

[gentle grove]

github codespaces

[light owl]

@native dune Is it working

[kind herald]

@native dune Is it working

[native dune]

Are you working ?

[light owl]

Are you working ?

[kind herald]

Are you

[kind herald]

Shut up

[pearl sail]

Maxine is definitely jobless

[light owl]

Yeah she is

Provides no benefit to society

[gentle grove]

https://x.com/forgebitz/status/1979108382012309681?t=FdUe8kC83PDNHnipfK3mtA&s=19

Klaas (@forgebitz)

we are so close to having basically reinvented php

X · Oct 17, 2025, 8:53 AM

[fading shell]

<@&355174844205367317> please remove the off topic messages

[lofty juniper]

did you need to ping 11 hours after this

[gentle grove]

when you bite the ragebait 🥀

[magic hazel]

What the fuck

It looks like a mashup of like

3 Langs

Like some C, python, JS,

[wooden yarrow]

it just looks like JavaScript to me

or maybe typescript

[magic hazel]

idk i dont use typescript but it doesnt look like normal js

[wooden yarrow]

I guess though the similarities do also come from both being web based languages

[gentle grove]

It looks like really fucked up JS

[magic hazel]

exactly thats what im saying

mishmash of langs

[gentle grove]

What the hell is an "sql" and then backtick

[magic hazel]

wut

embedded sql database

[gentle grove]

$`what the hell is this dollar sign shit`

[magic hazel]

bash script

[gentle grove]

query

[magic hazel]

the query is an sql database no?

[gentle grove]

you send a query to an SQL database and you get data back

[magic hazel]

thats what i said what 😭

oh i omitted a "to"

nvm

$ is a script surely

it looks like one

echo

and |

looks exactly like a script

[gentle grove]

Oh hold on

This looks like it'd be easy to have SQL injection

they're using string interpolation for the where clause

that's what it appears to do

[magic hazel]

oh true

idk i dont write web langs

i never ever liked them

i actually prefer c ngl

even tho i dont like c

i would take c

web langs feel so awfully fragile and messy

[gentle grove]

I wouldn't because it is the wrong job

[magic hazel]

oh yeah no i agree

but i meant

enjoyment wise

lol

not tool for the job

[gentle grove]

normal JavaScript is pretty good

[magic hazel]

normal js is cooked

its so broken

there are so many oddities

[gentle grove]

if you just use like straight javascript

no crazy stuff

and just don't be a silly

[magic hazel]

what are you talking about 😭

[gentle grove]

don't do anything crazy like try to compare two dates to each other or something

or try to interpret a date

that would be insane

[magic hazel]

console.log(typeof NaN);

logs number im pretty sure

console.log("5" - 2);

console.log("5" + 2);

first one is 3 2nd is 52

js is so fucking cooked

[gentle grove]

well NaN is gonna be a float in any language

That's not a JavaScript weirdness there

[magic hazel]

2nd one??

[gentle grove]

Just don't do it

[magic hazel]

LMAO

[gentle grove]

"It hurts when I do this with my arm"
Then don't do that

[magic hazel]

copium goes wild

[gentle grove]

I mean sure it sounds funny but its meaningless

[magic hazel]

console.log("5" - 2); // 3
console.log("5" + 2); // "52"

is wild

me when my language makes no sense

[gentle grove]

you're one to talk as the swift prophet

[magic hazel]

bro

if swift is 1 thing

it is rigid

[gentle grove]

https://tenor.com/view/lie-dectetor-gif-7223813212361486768

[magic hazel]

it has clearly defined rules

what are you talking about like actually i don't even know atp

[gentle grove]

they change the rules every day

[magic hazel]

they do not

😭

like actually what are you on about 😭

[gentle grove]

every time apple encounters one edge case in their development they add a new language feature

[magic hazel]

!??!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?

[gentle grove]

@slim bramble back me up on the swift hate please

[slim bramble]

fr

[magic hazel]

nah this isn't even swift hate anymore

like i get not liking it

[slim bramble]

yes this is actually true

[magic hazel]

but this is straight cap

[slim bramble]

and each and every swift update slows down the language even more

[magic hazel]

oml

dude

[gentle grove]

This is the only argument I have instantly because I don't use swift 24/7

[magic hazel]

i am running swift 5.10 on a fucking a5 chipset as fast as objc

i truly dont know

what you are talking about

😭

[gentle grove]

ancient

[magic hazel]

and it is NOT a small codebase

yes

ancient

if it can run as well

as objc

on a chip

as old

as a5

[gentle grove]

impressed that objc runs as well as it does given how it works

[slim bramble]

I never said it was slower than objc, I'm just saying that swift 6 is slower than swift 5.10 and so on

[magic hazel]

swift 6 is actually faster in so so many ways if you actually take the time to use it properly

its slower by default in some cases tho

but thats bcus it changed a lot

[gentle grove]

my complaint isn't even with performance at all, I feel like that was missed

[magic hazel]

it was a major release

[slim bramble]

However, most of the time swift is also just using the message system under the hood

[magic hazel]

swift 5.0-5.10 runs IDENTICALLY

its literally just extending it's own runtime

😭

[slim bramble]

.

You said it yourself

[gentle grove]

swift 5.1 is older than rust having C string literals

[magic hazel]

by default

because the lang changed

[gentle grove]

this is old af

[magic hazel]

bcus

the right behaviour

has changed

so you must update your code

to be better

[gentle grove]

Actually I think swift 6 is older too

[magic hazel]

swift 6 got rid of a lot of "close enough is good enough"

it made the language even more rigid than before

even more strict

[slim bramble]

swift mfs when their screen isn't wide enough to display their code 💀

[magic hazel]

what

idek what you're saying there

lmao

[gentle grove]

Swift mfs looking up 5 new syntax features every day because it is so bloated to hell

[magic hazel]

swift is not bloated actually ngl

its a really good size rn

[slim bramble]

swift 6 is literally

Whatever {
  Something {
    Idk {
      Etc {
      }
    }
  }    
}```

[magic hazel]

less bloated than rust

[gentle grove]

whos on copium now

[magic hazel]

yeah its not if you can write good swift code

[gentle grove]

that's hilarious

[slim bramble]

fr

[gentle grove]

I wasn't even serious about JS, I thought that should've been obvious but I'm not so sure

[magic hazel]

rust has like

5 string types

💀

[gentle grove]

It does not

[slim bramble]

Swift literally has 2 string types

💀

[gentle grove]

swift doesn't have enough string types

[slim bramble]

Actually 3

[magic hazel]

swift doesnt need anymore than 3

lmao

and realistically

[gentle grove]

I think rust has 3 basically

[magic hazel]

you use 1

basically 99% of the time

you only use 1

[gentle grove]

and realistically you use 1

[magic hazel]

String

[slim bramble]

You use all 3 without really knowing

[gentle grove]

its also called String in rust

rust is literally swift

[magic hazel]

crazy

[slim bramble]

That's why both language are garbage

👍

[magic hazel]

rust and swift interop wen

[gentle grove]

false...

[gentle grove]

pretty sure you can do that

[slim bramble]

mfs when they discover @c_decl

[magic hazel]

oh right bcus c interop

[gentle grove]

If not then can't you do C and swift interop

[magic hazel]

you can do objc interop

which

[gentle grove]

That's the cop out way

I thought there was a direct way

[magic hazel]

means u can do c interop

no

why would there be

[slim bramble]

It's pretty annoying, you need bridging headers

[magic hazel]

apple doesn't care about objc or c based langs in swift mostly

[magic hazel]

swift packages

no bridging required

[gentle grove]

https://github.com/chinedufn/swift-bridge