Also I didn't update my main
#development
timid furnace
native dune
Yeah definitely
timid furnace
Aria2
wooden yarrow
oh
light owl
Yeah definitely
N word all u do is clean up my shit
native dune
N word all u do is clean up my shit
I wrote the base of it you just fix my issues
light owl
U did nothing here twin
native dune
i dont care
light owl
All u did was clean up the code
wooden yarrow
https://discord.com/channels/@me/1054848453940883616/1249883331282079744
oh it does use apple's servers though atleast
hm
timid furnace
oh it does use apple's servers though atleast
P sure same situation as apple store wifi
light owl
@native dune Apple Developer Program - Membership for one year
Enrolment Complete
Order Placed(Completed)Electronically Delivered(Completed)
Thanks for being a part of the Apple Developer Programme.
native dune
Is it done
slim bramble
https://discord.com/channels/@me/1054848453940883616/1249883331282079744
No access :/
wooden yarrow
P sure same situation as apple store wifi
might have been cool to do a traceroute to apple's public servers to see if it ever leaves apple's networks
light owl
Is it done
Hahaha
wooden yarrow
No access :/
this is how i feel about ONO
fading shell
this is how i feel about ONO
ONO doesn't exist
rocky oriole
And the average user can typically not even know how to clone a github repo...
wooden yarrow
ONO doesn't exist
honestly wouldnt be surprised if it's turned into a private server already
i know there are adjacent ones but not directly
last merlin
And the average user can typically not even know how to clone a github repo...
That’s why I wrote a simple command to do it. It’s there
timid furnace
might have been cool to do a traceroute to apple's public servers to see if it e...
Should've told me
wooden yarrow
Should've told me
my bad dont think i was awake at that time
robust radish
ONO doesn't exist
what’s ONO?
faint timber
what’s ONO?
Orange Name Only
cosmic briar
how do you get in
faint timber
Helps to participate in chats
fading shell
how do you get in
By asking nicely and getting voted in
cosmic briar
pwease 🥺
robust radish
Mainly for devs
do I qualify. I’ve made a tweak
rocky oriole
Orange Name Only
fading shell
do I qualify. I’ve made a tweak
Qualifications are rather loose, I'll start a vote
hasty ruin
yeah unfortunately nightwind was let in
radiant idol
true
sonic totem
yeah unfortunately nightwind was let in
Hardly “let in”, blackmail does not make it voluntary
odd ivy
iPhone 16pro. In lost mode. Is there any hope of recovery.
kind herald
!t icloudbypass
faint lionBOT
!t icloudbypass
lime pivot
never worked that many hours (paid) but rn I'm missing being in an office and working consistent hours
always working 8 hrs
working from home I do either a lot more or a lot less
jagged willow
never worked that many hours (paid) but rn I'm missing being in an office and wo...
i wish i worked more hours doing something more interesting
timid furnace
There are 692.8 TiB of stuff in AppleDB: 77.3 TiB of IPSWs, 98.7 TiB of full OTAs, 511.2 TiB of delta OTAs
wait
that's just iOS/iPadOS/macOS/tvOS/audioOS/visionOS/watchOS
696.7 TiB of stuff: 77.4 TiB of IPSWs, 98.7 TiB of full OTAs, 511.2 TiB of delta OTAs
pre 2015 was just like 5.8 TiB of stuff
faint timber
no way
magic hazel
swift 1 is so bad
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: true) { _ in
UIView.animate(withDuration: 1.0) {
self.view.backgroundColor = self.colourChanger()
}
}```
WHY CANT I DO THIS😭
its all obj c based
atp idek if i should just learn obj c
i mean i like not having to memory manage stil
and i like that my code is actually readable
but still
this is painful
getting what i have rn would literally take me like 8 lines in swiftui
its not even funny
all of this just for a button and text
thats it
wooden yarrow
does it not have any constructors
wooden yarrow
using one might save you a couple lines
but also given that you're working in iOS 6 i think this is just the normal amount
magic hazel
how would it save any amount of lines
i am yeah
im thinking of attempting to rewrite the discord classic app via uikit and swift so its a universal app
bcus swift 1 runs on everything
ios 6-26
the only upside
magic hazel
yes
well
technically swift MIGHT work on ios 5
its just missing something
if someone can fix it
then ios 5
but ios 6 is the oldest that'll work out of the box
wooden yarrow
tbh if there were to be a rewrite i would rather it support iOS 5.0 and below rather than iOS 8 and up
magic hazel
ios 6 and up
wooden yarrow
but a rewrite is entirely your work so i shalln't interrupt
magic hazel
also technically there's no reason this couldnt work on lower versions unless the uikit api calls don't exist
bcus swift is bundled with the app
there's just some oddities on older versions
wooden yarrow
does it not require a runtime?
magic hazel
thats the thing
well
the obj c and swift runtime are the same
at least for swift 1.0
it was one of the headlining features
idk if its still the case
i doubt it is
harsh junco
if someone can fix it
it’s called vendor your own swift libs)
magic hazel
yeah idk how to do that
radiant idol
i mean i like not having to memory manage stil
objc has automatic mem management
harsh junco
if there is even a source for swift 1
magic hazel
idk if there is
wooden yarrow
objc has automatic mem management
well, objc-arc, which did not exist until iOS 5
radiant idol
he's working on iOS 6 iirc
wooden yarrow
i guess technically there was the autorelease method
harsh junco
yeah idk how to do that
- find swft 1-3 src
- suffer and build it
- package libs
magic hazel
obj c is also archaic and is bogged down by C
i much prefer swift syntax
much more readable
harsh junco
swift is pure mental illness
magic hazel
im tempted to write a library to get rid of all the NS prefixes and swift 1 oddities tho
harsh junco
i’d take objc
magic hazel
sounds like a C programmer to me
i mean i have nothing against any language except C
every language serves a purpose
radiant idol
I would just use objc in this case, you're making your project more difficult if you actually want to do something with this instead of just experimenting
for a modern app I would use Swift though
magic hazel
last time i tried learning obj c it went worse than learning C++, probably the closest to the C experience i had
some of the obj c leftovers in swift 1 are killing me
radiant idol
well looking at this I would tell you that this is very close to the theoretical objc version of this code
magic hazel
it is except that it's syntax is nicer
let index = Int(arc4random() % UInt32(self.count))
at least i can write some helper functions to avoid using disgusting code like this
vivid dew
for a long time every app would just ship its own copies of the swift libraries
radiant idol
I think you're more frustrated at how UIKit compared to SwiftUI, not Objective-C
radiant idol
it is except that it's syntax is nicer
let index = Int(arc4random() % UInt32(se...
You can certainly write helper functions in objc
radiant idol
the whole thing made sense
Good to hear that 👍
magic hazel
You can certainly write helper functions in objc
ofc you can but the problem is there's more of this code i'd have to cover up
at least with swift 1 70% of the job is done for me
magic hazel
I think you're more frustrated at how UIKit compared to SwiftUI, not Objective-C
swiftui is still infinitely better for simple shit like what i'm trying to do but uikit at least works for me now
then again im using ancient uikit
there's no good autolayout
that came in ios 9
radiant idol
NSInteger getRandomIndex(NSInteger count) {
return (NSInteger)(arc4random() % count);
}
seems simple enough
idk what exactly this is but
magic hazel
yeah idk why but that syntax really throws me off
its too close to C
anything close to C throws me off
radiant idol
that's because it is a C function
magic hazel
i deeply dislike C
it's archaic and should've been abandoned for anything but low level uses
radiant idol
What do you dislike about it? The syntax or the actual handling of stuff, for example memory management?
magic hazel
both
literally everything about it is so old you basically have to do everything yourself which is fine bcus its a low level language but the fact that it's used for anything but that frustrates me
there's so many better languages for high level stuff
harsh junco
anything close to C throws me off
do ojbc++ then) (it still has c in the name)
timid furnace
for a long time every app would just ship its own copies of the swift libraries
pretty sure this still happens
radiant idol
both
Interesting, I get the impression that a lot of modern programming languages are still inspired by the C style syntax actually
A Swift freefloating function (not tied to a struct, class, enum) would be very similar:
func getRandomIndex(for count: Int) -> Int {
return Int(arc4random() % UInt32(count))
}
from memory
timid furnace
oh
radiant idol
Interesting, I get the impression that a lot of modern programming languages are...
Of course in Swift you have some nice stuff like not having to specify return but still it's similar
timid furnace
funny because i need a backport to macOS 13
magic hazel
Interesting, I get the impression that a lot of modern programming languages are...
here's the thing though. basic stuff like that exists in modern swift already
just built in
commonly used functions are just there for your convenience
radiant idol
I see, that's your frustration then - the fact that in C you don't have as much stuff built in
That's a fair criticism, if you want to use C in a higher level program - for example one with a GUI
magic hazel
Interesting, I get the impression that a lot of modern programming languages are...
also idk if its just me but i really like swift syntax for functions
(parameters)
literal arrow
output
radiant idol
That's fair, but as you can see it is inspired by C
magic hazel
100%
its inspired by obj c
which is inspired by c
but its 2 levels removed
thats enough for me to be okay withit
obj c is a bit too close for my liking
and straight c is so painful
harsh junco
@magic hazel what do you think about c++
magic hazel
c++ is the prime form of c
its c for a modern day
i still dont like using it for most things
but its actually modern
and while yes
harsh junco
its c for a modern day
then why
not combine objc and c++
Like fr
magic hazel
they serve diff purposes
radiant idol
its inspired by obj c
I would say it's inspired by both independently, Objective-C methods (not C functions) have a different syntax:
- (NSInteger)getRandomIndexFor:(NSInteger)count {
/// ...
}
If I were to look at all three combined, I would say the Swift function signatures are way more similar to the C signatures than the Objective-C ones
magic hazel
I would say it's inspired by both independently, Objective-C methods (not C func...
i forgot how much i dislike obj c syntax
maybe you're right i think i prefer even the C syntax
obj c syntax makes NO sense
harsh junco
obj c syntax makes NO sense
ojbc is just c with enforced oop
OOP is bad
radiant idol
And that's a fair argument for not using Objective-C, but there are uses for it in certain occasions - e.g. legacy software
magic hazel
yes i agree
however
this is why im excited about swift 1.0 for ios 6
its a modern language for legacy devices
its still not modern swift
but its much more modern that obj c
radiant idol
Great to hear that then
magic hazel
only thing that actually sucks ass is old uikit
its so dogshit
idk how app developers did it
well i do
they used storyboard
no wonder it was such a big thing back then
apple pushed it really hard
but storyboard is bad
radiant idol
Same with SwiftUI nowadays, pretty much - it's an easier way to build an app than using UIKit directly
But SwiftUI is also more of a philosophy of itself because of its approach to programming (imperative vs. declarative) - that's why you originally struggled with the UIKit aspect after moving from SwiftUI
magic hazel
except that swiftui is actual code
and can be reused
and redone
easy to pass around
its easier to upgrade and modernise and refactor
storyboard is fucking awful
radiant idol
Oh yeah I agree, just noting the similarities
magic hazel
yk what the biggest joke is in uikit
i didnt even know this existed until now
i started cackling when i saw it
let views = ["button": myButton, "label": myLabel]
let horizontalConstraints = NSLayoutConstraint.constraintsWithVisualFormat(
"H:|-20-[label]-10-[button(100)]-|",
options: [],
metrics: nil,
views: views
)
view.addConstraints(horizontalConstraints)
what in the goofy ahh fuck is this
this has got to be the shittiest thing i have ever seen
radiant idol
Oh yes, that exists
magic hazel
who at apple thought this was acceptable
this is genuinely the worst way of laying out elements ive seen
you're basically writing a storyboard manually
its the worst of all worlds
i cannot see any case where anyone would want to use that
how does it have ANY applications
the second your ui gets more complicated than text and an image
you're completely fucked
i wish i had anchors and uistacks tho
instead i have to use manual constraints 😭
radiant idol
It's really weird yeah, but maybe that's the solution they came up with back then - clearly as you can see they were trying many different things, today the constraints API is quite soldified so it seems like common sense to us, but back then it was not figured out yet
magic hazel
```swift
let views = ["button": myButton, "label": myLabel]
let horizontalConst...
view.addConstraint(NSLayoutConstraint(item: backgroundView, attribute: .CenterY, relatedBy: .Equal, toItem: view, attribute: .CenterY, multiplier: 1, constant: 0))
like this is better in eevry way
man i miss Vstack and hstack tho
😭
i didnt realise how much i relied on them
and in uikit on ios 6 theres NOTHING you can use like it
at least in ios 9 there was like uistackview ithink
which is close
but on ios 6 you get nadda
magic hazel
It's really weird yeah, but maybe that's the solution they came up with back the...
yeah thats true
but like cmon aint no way a single programmer who actually has to work on something serious looks at that and says "yup thats how ima do my ui"
ima draw it in like it's ascii art
I wonder if there’s any possible way of getting my app onto the App Store
Maybe I can find someone who already has an app supporting iOS 6 and then buy it and they can transfer and I’ll refactor into mine since you can’t make new submissions
vivid dew
you should see the leviathan autolayout setup
magic hazel
you should see the leviathan autolayout setup
what's that
hasty ruin
```swift
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: true) { _ in
U...
why the fuck did they choose "in"
magic hazel
why the fuck did they choose "in"
Wdym
That’s just how the syntax is
That’s like saying why does obj c do functions with - ()
Nothing else does bur that’s just how it is
gentle grove
what the hell does an in block like that do
oh in is just a closure
but what the hell is the braces after the function call
magic hazel
okay i have an idea
gentle grove
This is called trailing closure syntax. If the last parameter of a function is a closure, it can be placed in curly braces immediately following a closing parenthesis around the previous parameters.
what in the fuck
magic hazel
yeah trailing closure
one of the great parts of swift
it makes sense when you see how it would look without it
not everyone will like it but i think it's great, it only really makes sense when you learn it tho, i found it super confusing at first
gentle grove
so is it the same as
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: true, _ in
UIView.animate(withDuration: 1.0) {
self.view.backgroundColor = self.colourChanger()
}
)
why
magic hazel
but cleaner
gentle grove
what makes it better
gentle grove
that's horrible
gentle grove
i'm only focused on the trailing closure part
magic hazel
yeah the trailing closure allows it to look more like a function
which is kinda what it's doing
gentle grove
rust has almost as bad of closure syntax so i can't make fun of swift
magic hazel
it's executing code as if it were a function
gentle grove
it makes 0 sense
magic hazel
anyways if ur coming from like pure C or c++ then i'd get it being confusing
gentle grove
why is there a function parameter outside of the parameters list
it's a logic issue
why is there a feature for that
this is exactly what mai was talking about
magic hazel
bcus that's the syntax ig
gentle grove
i found something worse
radiant idol
UIView.animate(withDuration: 1.0) {
self.view.backgroundColor = self.colourChanger()
}
This is also a trailing closure, just with no args - if we were to write it without using trailing closure syntax it would look like this:
UIView.animate(withDuration: 1.0, animations: {
self.view.backgroundColor = self.colourChanger()
})
simply a stylistic choice, but in certain cases, especially if you're writing SwiftUI, it does make stuff cleaner
magic hazel
```swift
UIView.animate(withDuration: 1.0) {
self.view.backgroundColor = sel...
its so much better for swiftui
magic hazel
```swift
let lowerCasedWords = arrayOfWords.map{ $0.lowercased() }
```
okay yeah this one still gets me
thats first element tho
from memory
gentle grove
i bet it's old syntax
gentle grove
if this is still a thing then that's insane
radiant idol
```swift
let lowerCasedWords = arrayOfWords.map{ $0.lowercased() }
```
I also hated it before I started working with Swift, but this actually quite nice if you use it properly
if you overuse it then it becomes confusing
This is not an old feature, I think it's somewhat new
magic hazel
err not really
radiant idol
Not Swift 6 new, but still new-ish
magic hazel
i tried multiple languages before landing on swift
swift just made sense, its diff for diff people
thats why there's multiple languages that have similar tasks
lmao
anyways back to my plan, even tho apple removed ios 6 as a TARGET in beta 4, there's not a real reason to think the actual binary that gets outputted isn't compatible somehow
unless xcode does funny stuff
so my plan is try xcode 6 stable
and change minimum in info.plist to 6
and hope to god it launches
so i can get off this beta
radiant idol
I personally don't really understand language wars, most languages are industry standards in their own respective industries
unless you're experimenting for fun, you should use the language that's designed for the platform you're running for, so Swift/Objective-C for iOS/macOS/whatever
There's some people who legitimately want to write an iOS app in C or C++ or Go or something and unless you are just experimenting, it's a massive waste of time to go against the industry standard
gentle grove
there is definitely an objectiveness to it
but i don't care enough to talk about it
radiant idol
There is definitely an objective aspect to it but a lot of it is subjective
radiant idol
Yeah
gentle grove
i was only talking about objective parts
magic hazel
objectively you shouldn't write an ios app in pure c
like objectively that is a poor decision
if its basic
like a basic app that could be done in a few lines of swift and swiftui would take you probably 100 in C with no libraries
but theres no reason you shouldnt use obj c to write an older app over swift
thats just a choice of what do you prefer
radiant idol
Same with a Windows app or something, unless you're experimenting, using Swift for that instead of C# or something would be ridiculous
magic hazel
yeah
well
depends
unless you're writing a unified app
since swift runs on everything
and you REALLY dont like c#
but idk who falls into that camp
i'd never write a windows app in swift
swift is built for apple devices through and through
alr ima take a bit of a risk and go for xcode 6.4
swift 1.2
pretty far removed from swift 1.0 beta 3
but who knows
honestly ios 7 and ios 6 really aren't that far off
radiant idol
but theres no reason you shouldnt use obj c to write an older app over swift
Older tooling is much more suited to Objective-C, just like how nowadays a lot of the tooling is more suited to Swift, so writing a modern app in Objective-C is like fighting an uphill battle
magic hazel
is there any real difference that would make running a newer swift version with old api calls problematic
magic hazel
Older tooling is much more suited to Objective-C, just like how nowadays a lot o...
and obj c is also archaic now
hasty ruin
so is it the same as
```
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: t...
does this seriously not need a ) anywhere wtf
radiant idol
since swift runs on everything
That's what Apple says, but as of now I have not seen an actual well known app (not an indie project) that is a Windows app written in Swift
radiant idol
does this seriously not need a ) anywhere wtf
it does, he wrote it wrong
gentle grove
how is it supposed to be written
magic hazel
That's what Apple says, but _as of now_ I have not seen an actual well known app...
thats bcus it's just not convention/not it's purpose
C# is microsoft's baby
swift is apple's
radiant idol
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: true, block: { _ in
UIView.animate(withDuration: 1.0) {
self.view.backgroundColor = self.colourChanger()
}
})
you can't just tell me "that's correct" but then have it actually be completely wrong 😭
hasty ruin
```swift
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: true, block: { _ i...
infinitely better
radiant idol
```swift
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: true, block: { _ i...
This is how you would write it without trailing closure syntax
gentle grove
```swift
Timer.scheduledTimer(withTimeInterval: 1.0, repeats: true, block: { _ i...
i could get behind this
idk about the braces being around the entire closure though
magic hazel
yeah i prefer trailing closure it's so much cleaner
hasty ruin
this still feels weird but not as bad as the original
radiant idol
Yeah I mean it's a stylistic choice
gentle grove
for some reason i read icraze as parentheses
radiant idol
the _ is there because the closure has a timer parameter and we're not using it so we can just mark it as _
gentle grove
yeah i get that
magic hazel
way less indentation makes it easy to read when it's in the context of a larger body of work
and it's less nesting
radiant idol
the in is a strange choice of a word, but after writing it I've gotten used to it
it doesn't really make sense but anyway
magic hazel
yeah in is odd but like i said before thats just how it is
like anything else
i find the fact that obj c has functions like - (void) super super odd
but thats just how it is
gentle grove
just because that's how it is doesn't mean i can't make fun of it
magic hazel
mm xcode 6.4 is not liking launching on this devie
gentle grove
i think the problem is that the aesthetics of the syntax mean nothing to me
i just want it to say what it does
that's what the best language does
magic hazel
i like my language to be readable and understandable without having to think too much about everything else around it and swift does that really nicely
the closer i get to C the more things become like machine code and the less readable they are to me
but that's definitely subjective
hasty ruin
i just want it to say what it does
objc always says what it does thanks to named args 🔥 🔥
gentle grove
i like my language to be readable and understandable without having to think too...
i like my language to be readable and understandable without having to think too much
i agree
having multiple ways to do the same thing, purely for aesthetics, makes it harder to read and less understandable
magic hazel
they're optional tho
native orbit
objc always says what it does thanks to named args 🔥 🔥
+1 for objc, -1 for swift since its mangled to hell
magic hazel
you pick whether you want to have it or not
most swift devs like it
obj c devs probably don't
gentle grove
you read other people's code all the time
magic hazel
the more used to C you are the less you'll like swift imo
gentle grove
the language has to have uniformity
magic hazel
the language has to have uniformity
nearly all swift code i've seen uses trailing closure
it's a headline feature of the language
it's expected
hasty ruin
> i like my language to be readable and understandable without having to think t...
saurik code
NSString *str(@"hello world");
magic hazel
so it's pretty consistent
light owl
@native dune Is it working
gentle grove
nearly all swift code i've seen uses trailing closure
that's exactly what i'm saying
radiant idol
the more used to C you are the less you'll like swift imo
I like both tbh
gentle grove
idk if you have amnesia or something
magic hazel
idk if you're talking about you not liking how it looks or other people not being able to read it
gentle grove
it means that then i can use this feature as something to criticize swift
not just "bad" swift
magic hazel
bcus other people can read it just fine
gentle grove
idk if you're talking about you not liking how it looks or other people not bein...
not being able to read it because it's a redundant feature
native orbit
saurik code
`NSString *str(@"hello world");`
havent seen a single other people then him define vars like that
magic hazel
most ppl write the code like that therefore most ppl can read it
gentle grove
bcus other people can read it just fine
other people can read asm just fine
no i think you've lost my point again
magic hazel
lmao this is a pointless argument anyways bcus syntax is one of the most subjective parts of a language
gentle grove
none of anything i was trying to criticize is subjective
maybe if i worded it wrong then it comes off like that
hasty ruin
havent seen a single other people then him define vars like that
same lmao
magic hazel
you took shots at trailing closure but all that is is a way of presenting code, it's purely syntax and not only that, it's optional. most people who use swift like the syntax, therefore it does it's job effectively, i don't really see swift devs complaining about trailing closure, and the ones who don't like it just don't use it
i see this as a win win for everyone
gentle grove
what i'm complaining about is the inclusion of a redundant feature, which is essentially just for the visual looks, which by result makes the language more complex and harder to understand as it's adding more features that don't do anything different
it's not about whether it "looks bad"
i'm being purely utilitarian here
magic hazel
it's incredibly useful when you consider swift's main libraries though
the biggest being swiftui
quaint rain
holy shit development channel talking about development
magic hazel
swiftui without trailing closure would be much messier
gentle grove
I think that's the problem with swift
native orbit
i think the problem is swift
gentle grove
it's domain specific to like 1000 different domains
magic hazel
lmao
i mean at the end of the day, don't like it, don't use it
however being a modern iOS dev and using obj c would not be very fun
hence why barely anyone does
gentle grove
you just debunked your statement immediately
magic hazel
what point
gentle grove
i mean at the end of the day, don't like it, don't use it
however being a modern iOS dev and using obj c would not be very fun
hasty ruin
peak syntax 🔥 🔥 (🤢 🤢 🤢 🤢)
magic hazel
peak syntax 🔥 🔥 (🤢 🤢 🤢 🤢)
i mean that is pretty bad ngl but nearly all obj c code i look at looks the same if not worse
gentle grove
it's domain specific to like 1000 different domains
This gives you the arbitrary-ness of a domain specific language but the complexity of a general purpose language that has to support a wide range of uses
hasty ruin
i mean that is pretty bad ngl but nearly all obj c code i look at looks the same...
i can assure you no one writes this in objc
radiant idol
I mean the weak self thing is a bit more ugly in Objective-C, tbh
magic hazel
- (void)startDownload {
NSURLRequest *request = [NSURLRequest requestWithURL:self.url];
// Async download using NSURLSession
NSURLSessionDataTask *task = [[NSURLSession sharedSession] dataTaskWithRequest:request
completionHandler:^(NSData *data, NSURLResponse *response, NSError *error) {
if (data && [self.delegate respondsToSelector:@selector(didFinishDownloadingData:)]) {
dispatch_async(dispatch_get_main_queue(), ^{
[self.delegate didFinishDownloadingData:data];
});
}
}];
[task resume];
}```can't believe I'm on the same side as icraze on an issue right now
magic hazel
this looks just as ugly to me
gentle grove
can't believe I'm on the same side as icraze on an issue right now
what has come of me
radiant idol
it's not as straightforward, I would say - not that weak self itself is straightforward, anyway
native orbit
real ones just use objc_msgSend in C
radiant idol
this looks just as ugly to me
it's just very verbose
gentle grove
real ones just disconnect their display connector?
gentle grove
use like c++ or C#
Oh...
radiant idol
Writing an iOS app in C++ would be a nightmarish experience
magic hazel
pure c++ yeah
radiant idol
(not Objective-C++, C++ itself)
native orbit
xamarin app sounds awful too
hasty ruin
WinObjC
magic hazel
idk i just dislike the fact that you have to write so much to do so little in super c based languages
it irks me that in 2025 we wouldn't have found better solutions
raven zephyr
hi
cosmic briar
Writing an iOS app in C++ would be a nightmarish experience
wait that's possible?
magic hazel
swift for me is good because it takes a lot of the "well of course that can work why wouldn't it" and actually does it
cosmic briar
in pure cpp??
radiant idol
in pure cpp??
Using the objc_msgSend API, you could theoretically do this
native orbit
ive done it asm
cosmic briar
Using the `objc_msgSend` API, you could theoretically do this
ohh
gentle grove
You can do anything in anything
magic hazel
ehh
cosmic briar
yeah I seen that function when decompiling apple frameworks
magic hazel
not with apple
gentle grove
You can do anything in anything
as long as the linker can link it I guess
that should be a bumper sticker
magic hazel
idk why apple hates non statically compiled languages
gentle grove
not with apple
maybe you as the user can't
but someone can
gentle grove
idk why apple hates non statically compiled languages
it's not just apple
magic hazel
windows android and linux all allow them wdym?
gentle grove
there seems to be a trend towards static linking today
magic hazel
well yeah but there's a difference between prefering and allowing
apple just says fuck you
gentle grove
windows android and linux all allow them wdym?
especially on windows, you'll find many programs bundle their own dlls which is essentially static linking
magic hazel
the others just say rather not
magic hazel
especially on windows, you'll find many programs bundle their own dlls which is ...
yes but there's still the option of not doing that
gentle grove
some programs will even bundle the visual c++ runtime
gentle grove
apple just says fuck you
Where are you not allowed to dynamic link on macos
Idk what thing you're talking about specifically
magic hazel
i was talking about ios
cosmic briar
https://github.com/Luki120/AuroraC
wow pretty interesting
I bet that was torture to make
gentle grove
On android you'll find the same as iOS
magic hazel
fym
native orbit
you can dynamic link on ios
radiant idol
I bet that was torture to make
I wouldn't know, but it does take a lot of dedication and a certain level of insanity to do this
native orbit
just needs to be in the container
magic hazel
i can run java applications on android no questions asked
gentle grove
What do you think static linking means
radiant idol
I think one of you misinterpreted the other, one of you mentioned static typing and the other was typing about static linking I think
gentle grove
errr library inside code
No but also I was trying to understand how you got being able to use java as being relevant to static linking
magic hazel
i said you can't use non statically compiled languages on ios
gentle grove
it's when you make libraries linked into the single binary instead of found at runtime somewhere on the system
magic hazel
thats what i just said
gentle grove
i said you can't use non statically compiled languages on ios
there's no such thing as a statically compiled language because its part of the linking stage, not compiling
It's when you choose how to connect the program to its libraries
magic hazel
what are you talking about there's no such thing, statically compiled languages have the compiler convert code into a binary with no runtime interpreter
C is statically compiled
C++ is statically compiled
radiant idol
I think one of you misinterpreted the other, one of you mentioned static typing ...
:P
magic hazel
idk every time i've had it come in a convo it's "statically compiled"
anyways
irrelevant
back to my actual point
apple says big fuck you on ios to interpreted languages
very sad
native orbit
not rly
magic hazel
yes really
native orbit
just the entry needs to be compiled
magic hazel
that's not always possible
gentle grove
idk every time i've had it come in a convo it's "statically compiled"
I think its incorrect
I can't find any reference to people calling it statically compiled other than getting confused between static typing
radiant idol
React Native exists, if you write JS there, it's interpreted
well, it's prob more complicated than that but at a high level
gentle grove
I can't find any reference to people calling it statically compiled other than g...
in a brief google search. Nothing in depth
native orbit
jsc the goat
gentle grove
V8 is bigger
magic hazel
eh maybe i got confused
gentle grove
bigger is better. At least with normal (car) engines
@magic hazel are you thinking of not being able to use JIT maybe
like for emulators
magic hazel
well that's one of the results
not just for emulators
for anything
my previous example of java
gentle grove
Are they stopping you from interpreting languages?
magic hazel
kinda
not entirely
you can't dynamically generate code but you can interpret existing code iirc
its been a while since i read the guidelines
gentle grove
what if I write the interpreter in rust so it's impossible for it to have bugs
gentle grove
rust is safe
magic hazel
no i dont mean that
gentle grove
that's its tagline
magic hazel
their argument is that because the app can make code on the fly it could be malicious code
its dumb as fuck
gentle grove
I think its pretty real actually
magic hazel
not really, every other platform allows it with little to no problems
gentle grove
I mean its sandboxed so the app only hurts itself
magic hazel
macos is sandboxed
gentle grove
not really
magic hazel
i wish ios was more like macos
gentle grove
well
magic hazel
macos is a much better compromise
it has safety and freedom if you want to have it
you can disable security features
because it's your device
gentle grove
Macos isn't super safe to be completely honest
magic hazel
you should be allowed to do that on ios
gentle grove
its the safest desktop you have
but I think its still possible to make malware do bad stuff
magic hazel
dude its possible on ios
its possible on everything
its about how much compromise
how much safety
the worst part is you can't turn anything off on ios tho
i wish you could
gentle grove
its safe
magic hazel
IT WORKS
HOLY SHIT
SWIFT 1.2 WORKS ON IOS 6
I KNEW IT
time to see how far i can go
i wonder if swift 2 works
holy crap i hope it does
gentle grove
magic hazel
holy shit i wonder how far this goes
obviously you can't like use new apis
and you'd have to be careful
like all my code is still swift 1.0 code
kinda
it has some changes bcus the compiler whined
gentle grove
What did you do
magic hazel
wdym
gentle grove
I didn't hear about this iOS 6 swift project at all
magic hazel
oh
uh
well
swift 1.0 beta 3 is natively supported on ios 6
so i started working on that
but i realised
just because apple removed 6 as a build target
doesn't really mean it won't work
bcus ios 6 and 7 are actually super similar
so literally just changing info.plist
for the first time in history
actually works
that shit NEVER works
im gonna try swift 2.0
if swift 2 works im gonna freak out the syntax is so much nicer
if swift 3 works its gamechanging
swift 3 working on ios 6 would make legacy development so much more accessible
again, you'd be limited by ios 6 apis
so you'd have to be REALLY careful
radiant idol
well if you use the iOS 6 sdk you wouldn't even be able to write code that's not iOS 6 compatible
magic hazel
but yes
when did 7 get dropped
7.0
also is this not swift code?
why isn't it being coloured
radiant idol
Is this Xcode?
magic hazel
yes
radiant idol
Strange - what Xcode version?
radiant idol
yeah idk
magic hazel
this is huge tho
swift 1.2 is much better that swift 1.0
even still
if you're worried about 1.2
1.0 stable will work
radiant idol
how different is it?
radiant idol
do show 👀
magic hazel
yeah no xcode really doesn't like this idk why
biggest is optionals
if let and guard let
very large
no guard let in swift 1
try and catch
swift 1.2
nothing in swift 1.0
better type inference
radiant idol
oh wow yeah those are big parts of the language
magic hazel
swift 1.0 -> for var i = 0; i < 10; i++ { ... }
swift 1.2 -> for i in 0..<10 { ... }
radiant idol
yeah ok I see
magic hazel
so like
its a pretty bigdeal
ayyy
xcode was probably just processing shit
thats better
im actually so stoked
howveer
the real test
is seeing if that swift 1.2 code
runs on ios 6
bcus this is all swift 1.0 code
so while its great and all i dont have to use a beta version of xcode anymore
radiant idol
are you sure optionals don't exist? because I see you do self.navigationController!
radiant idol
interesting
radiant idol
in Swift 1.2?
radiant idol
neat
magic hazel
time for xcode 7.0
swift 2.0
aint no way this works
okay guard was 2.0
10 minutes to copy over xcode and then we'll be off
nah set uses a new data structure
so thats actually cool
lime pivot
swift 1.0 -> for var i = 0; i < 10; i++ { ... }
I forgot for loops looked like C at first, yikes
magic hazel
yeah
lime pivot
and I used Swift 1.0 betas 😬
magic hazel
yeah its horrible
im glad i can get away from it
so my max version rn is 1.2
which is pretty freaking incredible
a stable modern language for older ios
why on earth didnt apple allow ios 6 build targets
im not tripping right ios 6 and ios 7 ARE very similar
swift 2 would be pretty big but the kicker here is swift 3
if swift 3 somehow works
this will actually be so fucking cooked
it means no more obj c for legacy development if you're targeting ios 6
swift 3 is basically modern swift
radiant idol
let us know how it goes
magic hazel
oh no
i think its gonna fail
the app is huge now
18mb
was 2mb
does not bode well
alr here goes nothing
KJHSJKDSAKDHAS
HOLY SHIT
SWIFT FUCKING 2 WORKS
HOLY MOTHER OF SHIT
THIS IS HUGE
radiant idol
whoaaa
magic hazel
THIS IS ACTUALLY SO HUGE
CAN WE ACTUALLY GET SWIFT 3
NO WAY
NO WAY IN HELL
IM GONNA GO FOR IT
oka
so
i need to push the boundaries
so im gonna ask chatgpt to write me a pure swift 2.0 application
and ima see if it launches
magic hazel
import UIKit
class ViewController: UIViewController {
let button = UIButton(type: .System) // Swift 2.0 style
let colors: [UIColor] = [.redColor(), .greenColor(), .blueColor(), .yellowColor(), .orangeColor()]
var currentColorIndex = 0
override func viewDidLoad() {
super.viewDidLoad()
// Set title
self.title = "Color Changer"
// Initial background
self.view.backgroundColor = colors[currentColorIndex]
// Setup button
button.setTitle("Change Color", forState: .Normal)
button.frame = CGRect(x: 0, y: 0, width: 160, height: 50)
button.center = self.view.center
button.addTarget(self, action: #selector(buttonTapped), forControlEvents: .TouchUpInside)
self.view.addSubview(button)
}
@objc func buttonTapped() {
// Change background color
currentColorIndex = (currentColorIndex + 1) % colors.count
UIView.animateWithDuration(0.3) {
self.view.backgroundColor = self.colors[self.currentColorIndex]
}
}
}
already there
radiant idol
cool cool
magic hazel
okay gonna test now
download xcode 8 as we speak
the very fact you can use newer xcode also means you can literally use newer macs
this is actually massive
radiant idol
that.. is true
magic hazel
this could be gamechanging
if swift 3 works
HOW HAS NOBODY TRIEDTHIS
I AM SERIOUS
HOW HAS ACTUALLY NOBODY TRIED DOING THIS
😭
HAHAHAHAH ITW ORKS
THAT SWIFT 2 APP WORKS BEAUTIFULLY
radiant idol
do show
magic hazel
wait pressing the button does nothing on even ios 9 sec
code is just broken
k code fixed
time to put on ios 6
radiant idol
what was the issue?
radiant idol
ah
radiant idol
neat
magic hazel
and .redcolour
alr ill send a video in a sec sideloading now
YOU CANNOT MAKE THIS SHIT UP
IT ACTUALLY FUCKING WORKS
oh crap
i can't actually run xcode 8
aw man
well thats the end of that
errr
does anyone have an older mac
ykw
fuck it
i dont need yosemite anymore
i can go to el capitan
bcus xcode 7 runs on el capitan
i only needed yosemite for xcode 6
and i no longer need xcode 6 bcus it's useless
light owl
@native dune Is it working
native dune
@native dune Is it working
light owl
@gleaming niche Is it working
magic hazel
there's no way of backporting uikit apis is there
radiant idol
unless you rewrite them yourself no
magic hazel
unless you rewrite them yourself no
Hmmm
Damn
Hmmmm
Okay so
I think there’s one issue
We can’t fo too far
Or else apis will be depreciated
radiant idol
you can still use deprecated APIs, it'll just give you a warning
magic hazel
Meaning sure swift but you can’t do anything w it
how lon was NSLayoutConstraint a thing
radiant idol
you can still use deprecated APIs, it'll just give you a warning
or an error, depends on how you configure your compiler
radiant idol
iOS 6+
magic hazel
TECHNICALLY
the uikit gets better
bcus the syntax for using it
is cleaner
like buttons for example
UIButton(type: .Custom) vs UIButton.typeofblahblah(.Custom(
and then casting
as! UIButton
no longer needed
swift 2.0 is much much better than swift 1
ima update to el capitan my efi is made for el capitan anyways
so it should be very straightforward
then it'll be swift 3 time
if swift 3 works im actually gonna rewrite discord classic
radiant idol
you could very well do that in Swift 2.0 probably
assuming everything works
which itself is a bold assumption, but anyway
magic hazel
i could
but swift 3 is so much closer to swift 5
i may as well try it
there's no harm
i even have my yosemite installer usb so i can rollback
+, if swift 3 works, current ios devs could consider supporting ios 6 as a target if they're using UIKit
and more people can get into legacy ios development
albiet old uikit apis
but still
guess what else it means
libraries
you can use modern swift libraries
which could bridge the gap
of old uikit
i know of a few already
that would help immensely
radiant idol
with some effort you could make some convenience functions to make old UIKit easier to use
magic hazel
yes
radiant idol
you can use modern swift libraries
not necessarily
new Swift won't work with old Swift
well, probably wont
I assume it wouldn't
magic hazel
no i mean like more modern
radiant idol
I see
magic hazel
older versions of modern swift libraries
nothing is made for swift 1
some stuff is made for swift 2
lots is made for swift 3
radiant idol
but as long as they use a single symbol that's present on iOS 7 and on, you're screwed
magic hazel
true
but then again
it just makes shit so much easier
obj c is so bothersome in old ios
its old objc
old objc + old apis is really bad code
swift 1.0 was nice step up but swift 2.0 is really nice
radiant idol
objc hasn't changed in a very long time, objc from the iOS 6 era and the objective-c now is very very similar
magic hazel
objc hasn't changed in a very long time, objc from the iOS 6 era and the objecti...
its the combo
objc+ old apis
radiant idol
it's just the APIs that have changed
magic hazel
yeah
but its also obj c apis
obj c apis are annoying
hmm im gonna have ot be careful
radiant idol
you're still interacting with objc APIs in your Swift code
magic hazel
i think your idea of using the older sdk is good
idk if it will work
that way i'm limited
then again, older sdk could cause issues
if i can use a modern sdk i can also have other stuff
magic hazel
could be a lot of work tho
- the apps wouldn't be accepted on app store
if you could use a modern sdk
you could potentially submit applications
but yes
it's a possibility
radiant idol
you could start by basing it off of the iOS 7 SDK and start removing things as you come across them that don't exist on iOS 6
magic hazel
updating to el capitan
magic hazel
you could start by basing it off of the iOS 7 SDK and start removing things as y...
oooh
thats a thought
radiant idol
you're bordering between actually usable territory and hacky territory so you might as well
magic hazel
ig thats fair
my hackintosh better not shit itself
i swear to god
it better pull through
alr this will take 25 mins according to my mac
thats rather annoying
magic hazel
you're bordering between actually usable territory and hacky territory so you mi...
i mean rn whats hacky
when did swift become dependent on the OS
just so i know what my cap is
radiant idol
i mean rn whats hacky
I mean what does it take to make it work on iOS 6?
magic hazel
I mean what does it take to make it work on iOS 6?
literally nothing
i am deadass rn
you edit info.plist
i truly dont know how nobody tried this
ios 6 and 7 are very similar
it just works
you change minimum required os from 6 to 7
and it deadass just works
there's nothing hacky about it
okay
development
radiant idol
oh well I guess that's not bad
magic hazel
swift 3.0 apparently only technically supports ios 8
but
apparently you can get it to work on ios 7
radiant idol
this is the strangest series of events
for reference I did not even know what version supported what before this
I am learning today
magic hazel
BRO PPL HAVE GOT SWIFT 4.2 WORKING ON IOS 7
if swift 2 works on ios 7 and 6
why would swift 4.2 not
magic hazel
indeed
still 21 mins on my updater
if we can get to the ios 11 sdk ill be really happy
bcus that means the app will support iphone x type phones
meaning it wont look like shit
bro the thought of building an app for ios 6 with swift on the ios 11 sdk is actually so funny
radiant idol
it's now just a matter of "how far can we push this"
as long as the Swift code calls the underlying Objective-C APIs, stuff should still work
magic hazel
as long as the Swift code calls the underlying Objective-C APIs, stuff _should_ ...
it may or may not have even more usage though, parts of swift are included in itself, like .randomelement
or have obj c backends that are shit
and you wouldnt use
but look nice in swift
and since the swift runtime is bundled into the app
ohhh shit
i forgot
another limitation
32 bit app building
when did that get cutoff
radiant idol
iOS 11 :/
magic hazel
FUCK
radiant idol
yes, beta 1
magic hazel
goddamn
radiant idol
I knew that was gonna be your next question lol
radiant idol
that's ok we can still make to do with what we have
magic hazel
should i still try
radiant idol
try swift 3 first
magic hazel
i could build for arm64 ios 6
radiant idol
let's see what it does
radiant idol
i could build for arm64 ios 6
that's getting into hacky territory
magic hazel
it is
but
PoC
?
orrrr
potentially using the older sdk
to target armv7
and then using newer swift
magic hazel
true im just spitballing while i try and wait for this stupid update to happen
7 minutes
ugh and then i have to download and unzip
update successful!!
magic hazel
yep
same
good old haswell
its slower on el captian
oooh but my youchpad and keybaor dwork
radiant idol
oh nice