#razer-discussion
1 messages · Page 105 of 1
but i have found a used bas ult for £50 when looking for viper ultimates
used?
here in america the g502 lightspeed is only $20 USD less than the basilisk ultimate
yeah i think it is
I already have the X, but i'll move the X to my ps4 for the voice chat while streaming
and it isnt as chunky
i see
i wonder if the mini is better than the x
Viper is good. I love my Viper Ultimate, 10/10 recommend
yass
i like the shape of both but the price of that bas ult is amazing
i’ll prolly buy it since it’s “like new” condition, and i’m also poor
i see im just waiting for covid to be over
i like to also buy stuff used but covid
Really solid deal $70
COVID is basically over here. Don’t want to start a discussion cuz that would be off topic but yeah.
yeah
naga trinity is 90 bucks cad rn
It’s nice sometimes living somewhere where not many other people are
That’s a good price actually
i’ll make sure i sanitise it
definitely
like razer mice are amazing prolly the only thing i’d buy razer other than the project hazel
and thats if we can ever even buy it
agreed
i just hope i can use it in discord calls
lol
no i mean to use it as a microphone linked to my phone on discord calls
oh
nah
anyone have any experience with the ps4 controllers?
they havent mentioned it having a mic
^
The Razer ones? No sorry
i though they said it had a mic and speakers so people and hear you better
yeah its pretty much an amplifier
wait
the mic is for the speakers to make you louder
i need to play snake
Yeah they do but not for gaming. It’s not meant to me an audio input. Also it would be super echoy and stuffy
it’s got a built in mic
ah
damn nice
got my speaker
treat sneki with more respect
i do
then why is sneki laying on the box it should be the bed
he loves the speaker
Can someone help me setup my razer te headset
razer support
wont respond
been 2 days
g502 wears out after like a year also the design of it makes it so it gets dirty easily
😐
Damn
What's wrong with it?
had one, the rubber grips wore off, the feet wore off
Its confusing
Wow
I think i did everything correct.
the scroll wheel is awfully inconsistent
there's like no steps, you scroll a little bit, sometimes it scrolls once, sometimes twice, sometimes not at all
It should just be plug and play
but yeah no shit the amount of crevices in the g502, it's just a worse basilisk
I plugged it in
Yeah I think Razer perfected the G502 pretty much
And the volume is up on the audio controller?
It was a comfortable shape and that's about all it had going for it. And the basilisk is literally the same.
razer perfected the ec2 too, deathadder identical
I just removed the audio controller and it works.
wtf
maybe drivers?
Sounds like you might need to turn up the audio on the controller?
It was up
ec2?
ec2 is a zowie mouse that's very very popular in csgo pro scene
Oh
Interesting
almost identical
@alpine carbon dont string message, make sure youre using the dual ports if its a desktop
There is no dual ports
There is no splitter cable
is it a usb headset
No
just 1 cable?
Yea
are you plugging it into your motherboard?
thats why, the motherboard splits line out and mic in
Oh
shouldnt it just come with the headset
it should have...
wtf
unless its a mobile headset it should have splitter or usb iirc
@remote prawn came across this video, did you ever experience anything similar? https://youtu.be/8dZGWvGS6Gw
Razer Basilisk Ultimate - Don't Waste Your Money, The Ugly Truth
Today we looked at the Razer Basilisk Ultimate and explained why this is a bad choice when it comes to high end wireless mice because Razer has over time been doing a poorer job of keeping high quality standards all around. If they're going to be charging over $100+ they should a...
Please don't tag mods but ill watch it
looks entertaining
lmao what, i didnt tag you as a mod i tagged you as someone that i speak with normally
I know but I need to enforce the rules (kinda my job as a mod, nothing against you)
2:15 in the video
yeah there were a bunch of issues you can consider in this poor build category
its not only one issue he mentioned in the video
ive heard that Razer QC isnt the best but ive never experienced it
Nothing is sharp on my basilisk ultimate
go to g502 if you want sharp :kekw:
brick
lmao i got the g502 proteus spectrum
had it for a while
cable is annoying
considering to switch it
My back piece by the razer logo doesn't move
(I'm saying mine vs his as I'm watching it)
do you feel like there is anything cheap about the build quality
yes i understand
When I'm using it no it feels good quality
i mean, it looks like a really good mousw
I can confirm the micro usb does suck though
but razer is razer it will always feel like you are paying too kucj
isnt it
micro usb always sucked but thats why the dock is there atleast
thats why razer does insane sales
would be suprised if they would put a type c there
at least on bestbuy and amazon they do
To be fair it does looks pretty cool on the dock
It is micro usb on the dock
They put usb c on their newer keyboards so I'm hoping they're just taking a couple years to switch
how do i even come across sales, i dont live in the us if i want to buy a razer product i need to go to some random store that isnt some razer store
amazon or best buy
snatched my cynosa v2 for $50 CAD
and my DAV2 for $70 CAD
but with the taxes and shipping fees in my country it will pricy asf
got my viper for 49.99, got my blackwidow for 72.98. wasnt even a holiday
wow
keyboard > charging dock for a mouse
Yeah I would also rather have it on my keyboard
who td uses a wireless keyboard anyway
I'm just saying I hope they're gradually switches to USB C on all of their products
its beyond pointless
Yeah I don't use a wireless keyboard
I guess if you travel a lot maybe? I still don't see a point of wireless keyboards
detachable cable makes the most sense imo
Or if you want to use it on the couch and use your PC with your TV but I doubt the majority of people are
like the one on the huntsman mini?
like wireless headset sounds good, wireless mouse can be amazing, keyboard dont move lol
Yeah I have a wireless headset and mouse but the keyboard I'm fine with wired
and every single custom keyboard enough of my new obsessions
depends on what, type c ports are very weak, can get damaged fairly easily
my headset got detachable 3.5mm, its good
good to have such option
which usb best usb?
usb c 3.2gen2x2
To be fair, USB C cables are very common and they have lots of options for custom cables
most custom cables are usbc
i dont want to talk about their names...
thats the custom standard
@alpine carbon you see the odd micro usb every now and then
micro usb looks so bad
sick
🙂
Are Razer products elitist(as in they appeal to high level gamers and not to minority gamers like mac gamers etc.), and if they aren't are there any Razer products that DON'T do that? If there are any please tell me as I am a Mac Gamer that is looking for gaming gear that is cheap
Razer is the best
Razer's items are decently affordable.
@grand token are they elitist tho?
idk what that means
if you mean "is razer trying to sell a premium brand" then the answer is yes. through their price tag and design language in their products and graphics
^
@grand token so would their products support mac?
but thats not gatekeeping
I use Dell, and my brother uses a Mac, we both use Razer, so, yes.
You can always ask Razer Support via their actual website if you don't believe me, @oblique zodiac.
na i believe you
issues regarding mac compatibility partly stem from the fact that mac software might be more difficult to program with the type of things that synapse is capable of, and also partly because the target audience for macs doesn't mix well with razer's intentions
Right
there are enough issues with windows synapse to work out already
Indeed, I uninstalled Synapse from my PC due to audio issues
But I still use Cortex.
@oblique zodiac We can always help you more in #351097273226362880 if you decide to buy R Λ Z E R
products.
@grand token thank you but since im a very cheap gamer i do not see my self buying razer soon
Razer is inexpensive if you're on a budget
razer is not inexpensive
Depends on what you get.
thats true
@alpine carbon im talking like 20-25 dollars cheap @grand token
I spent 100-200 for my entire setup 2-3 years ago
Well, then you're going to be looking at Dell products which are s*it
Dell keyboards and mice are terrible.
Plus they barely work after 2-4 years of repeated use
@grand token so ive heard razer products had bad warranty but now they updated it does that mean their old products have better warranty now too?
They've never had bad warranty since I've used them.
Well, then you're going to be looking at Dell products which are s*it
@grand token no i go for cheap gaming gear i currently have a pictek gaming mice
Pictek looks like a ripoff of Razer
@grand token not rly to me
Razer makes 100x better product than Pictek.
@grand token maybe not 100 times but pictek make gaming gear for cheap gamers and are very good for their price point
Pictek 19 Key Anti-Ghosting ranks #187 out of 374 and Razer BlackWidow TE Chroma v2 ranks #56 out of 374.
Razer products are just better made
ofc they are
but picktek is for cheap gamers
not for as high quality gamers as razer
Their keyboards are expensive.
they have lower price point for their products
I'm not going to argue about a company in this Discord.
@grand token they are? i only get their cheap stuff
And you wonder why you're asking for Razer product xP
Never heard of pictek
Razer's products aren't targeted towards cheap cheap gamers so I don't think it's really the fairest comparison
Razer's products aren't targeted towards cheap cheap gamers so I don't think it's really the fairest comparison
@remote prawn basically what i said
You can always save up for Razer products 🙂
@grand token i could but im fine with low price range
Some of their stuff is pretty expensive
if i get a lot of money at once i prob will spend on high tier like razer @grand token
razer is like
I spent 40.00 on my keyboard from Razer and 40 on my headset, 50 on my mouse.
@grand token idk why im asking here but is steelseries good?
No.
talk
@alpine carbon Just talk 🙂
i've heard they're alright
their headsets look decent thats about it
hyperx is good too right
yeah they make good headsets
not quite blackshark level imo but theyre good
@grand token again idk why im asking here but is turtle beach good
Never heard of Turtle
thats gonna be a no from me
They've gotten bad reviews from what I see
@grand token theyre kinda popular name brand
but not as much as like razer and hyperx
Turtle Beach doesn't compare to either
theyve partnered with esports organizations like faze and optc @grand token
i remember turtle beach being the big thing but nah their headsets arent really good quality
And Razer has partnered with how many E-Sports organizations?
ik that doesnt reflect on how good theyre brand is but still
ok thx
It's ok to ask for recommendations for products not by Razer in this server to the best of my knowledge, just not in the channel specifically about Razer products. 😂
🤣
yooo
Wassup
What’s up
what up
hey
guys
Yes?
do you recommend razer mouse mini viper or whatever
Yeah sure
As long as it’s somewhere reputable you should be good
Wut
Who’s
im chinese
😶
dude
i dont mean chinese culture and people
i mean the government
and only the prc is what im against
Let’s not get into anything about any governments
it is, it's a website in my country
Pesoes
philipines?
o ok
Based on the amount sold and the and ratings plus the guarantee it looks legit
it's deathaddder essestional
and it's "Preferred"
they normally cheap
Viper mini >>>>>>>>>>>
ok i wont
let me check
Yes
the same thing lol but I suggest not
How is it not
buy from official razer store
oof
The store has a money back guarantee, seller has plenty of reviews and sales with a good rating
idk ur choice if u only have cash
hmm ye
southeast asia user be like
lol
im one
bruh
None of that
lol
too expensive
for me
being in a developing country sucks
but ngl, this is overkill
i wonder if its enough to be classified as a gas mask @remote prawn
but not for the eyes
Plz avoid stringing messages but probably not
Looks awesome tho. I would love to walk around with RGB on my face 😂
Hey from which week razer implemented the 2nd gen optical switches in RVU 2036+ ?
if razer came out with a toaster i don’t see why they wouldn’t come out with the project hazel
it’s just such a great idea and i’d still wear it after lockdown personally
Hey guys can I ask a question
sure
i wouldn’t be able to help, try in #351097273226362880 or #632959599691038733
Thanks
@muted goblet @ember surge please do not spam messages in one or multiple channels. If you are talking about the tournament please use the correct channels to post information about the tournament. which is #780116875412504596 #780116915644661761 thank you in advanced for your acceptance of this. Have a great day and good luck
with the basilisk and the viper ultimates is it possible to just plug the charging dock into the wall?
Just wondering why would you want to do that? @gilded kettle I’m sure you can but it may not be recommended.
Also you can enable in bios where you’re usbs are always getting power even when the pc is resting so they can still charge the mouse
if you’re like using it with a laptop and you’ve not got much space so you have to use a wall plug to charge the house
i can’t cause my laptop is shite
Im on a laptop as well.
mine is an old one with a horrible bios
i’ll see if it’s in my bios
Are you on legacy bios or uefi? Also what model is your laptop
lenovo yoga 330-11mg
it’s like a server looking bios
if they come out ima buy the rgb mask lmao
same
same
they look cool af aswell
yep
lol
i want one just to wear for the rgb
probs a 3k chair with screen
what do you do tho if ur like 4 foot 5 and u hav 2 look up at the screen
XD
ye

oh theres an emoji for it lol
how much does this pleasure cost you
idk
They haven’t released a price
probs thousands
tbh it looks like a giant flex with no point
with the Razer logo being on it, i am sure its over 1K
like okay a nice comfy chair that has 160 degrees monitor installed on top
obv
meh
the thing is, there is no PC included
i can buy both seperated for 20% of the price
It’s gotta be over 1k if I had to guess
buy that and buy your own pc and mouse and keyboard and headset and mouse pad
yes
do not say that stuff in chat.
the wireless keyboard is like 250
The Blackwidow V3 wireless
i have 4 lol
breh
i have Razer Deathadder Elite, basilisk ultimate, Glorious Model O, and Viper Mini
my USB controller is screaming at me
i hav basalisk ultimate model o and roccat kain
nice
razer 1 best tho
wow everybody got that basilisk now
i LOVE the Basilisk Ultimate
Why tho
rgb gang
it has incredible RGB
im considering to buy the basilisk ultimate
and the dock is nice
ye
i hav it
look fr im not trying to bully you or harass you but how old are you sss
in usin it rn
I have the basilisk ultimate with the dock and death adder elite
also theres no lag at all
nice
I would prefer not to share my age on this server.
alrighty
im still trying 2 buy a rtx 3070
how tf did it die
they are sold out everywhere
i had a laptop that im usin rn i cant use my pc coz i need my gpu
the RAM is wrecked
f
production error?
ye
lmao im still rocking the 1070
I’ve got the 1060
Plenty for what I do
none
Rip
I liked the RTX 2070
im on a hp laptop with no gpu
also, i made a program where i can steal the performance of my other computers
but my beast of a pc is next to me
the rtx 2070 is great but when the 30's game out every other graphic card became irrelevant lol
without a gpu
basically a £2000 light
lol
XD
that is quite pricey
so sss, i got the g502 but i had enough of the wire so i searched for a new mouse and i came across the basilisk ultimate, looks similar, would get used to it instantly, its just like the g502 but better, no wire, less lag
asus x570 e motherboard
the only thing i worry about is that i heard alot of people complaining about build quality
5 tb storage
Yeah that’s pretty accurate
yes
With the better than the g502
the build quality on the basilisk is fine
i mean, it is made of plastic but it feels quite solid
plastic is the standard
yeah
i dont expect obsidian
the button on my basalisk coz i one played mc with it and nearly broke the right click
no it feels good
ye
the Basilisk is a great mouse
anything negative you can say about the basilisk?
Nah on mine it feels pretty good
do you think its worthy of the price
erm
I do
i think i got a defective model tho
the button plastic is a lil wobboly
yeah on mine
The only negative thing about mine is the fact it’s micro usb but can’t complain with the dock
it dosent have a hard "click"
right click
it feels like im clicking a membrane keyboard
yes
meh i can like both
sometimes i like the click of the g502
i guess the basilisk is more like silk
i think in 2021 Razer is gonna transition most of their products to USB-C
yeah it is @mellow solar
nah
i just hope they will put up a fair price 😫
usb -c is trash imo
i really want the basilisk but the prices man
well, i think it may be on sale rn on amazon
yes
well i accept your wrong opinion 😳
if you buy it without the dock its not that bad
nah
-_-
It’s a lot better than micro usb for sure
in my country the shipping prices and taxes are in the sky
160 quid
i agree
ouch
oof
i got mine for 140
i got mine for 99
whats quid
oh british boi
i got mine for 99 USD
k
I got mine for undisclosed price
lol
lmao
i see there is a sale that takes off only 15 usd
its like putting something on a small sale to say its "on sale" and fish random customers
it was on sale for 50 bucks on black friday
ded cheap on black friday
sorry
breh in the razer its 170 geez
what kb u have
huntsman elite
nah i hav purple
and a modded foam-insulated backing
i like clicky
idk how 2 take the spacebar off on the hunstman elite to clean it
i got the linear bc there is no tactile optical switch (yet)
The purples?
you should prob be able to find out how to do that on YT
no the Purples are clicky
yes
i want an optical switch like the Mechanical oranges
the purps
yes
i like the "bump" feeling without the noise
sort of like cherry browns
if u know what i mean
yes
Understandable
yeah
the razer nommo's are good
im not getting the chair tho
i hav them
I could get them with my silver but I don’t think I would ever use them
Because headphones
Cya
bye
Oh wow nice
i have the Nari
if u need any help setting that up i will be happy to assist in #351097273226362880
Poggers dude
Nothings wrong with the replacements? Might wanna check and make sure bc you’ll need to contact razer again if the same thing is wrong with them
box damaged
oh
check inside
The replacement itself is fine
thats good
Works fine
that's good.
Do you guys have any info if there will be the Razer store sale again since Razer won a CES award?
Just like last year
I do not work for Razer, so i do not know.
Nobody knows till it happens
I see. Will there be any announcement on this server if the sale goes live? I'm sure it would help a lot of people in this community
I used to have the PewDiePie edition but I honestly don't mind having the black version as it actually matches my setup
that would be nice
i think they will announce it on their Twitter
You have a #797573395800653874 channel, maybe it will show up there?
Yeah probably
yep
Just gotta keep an eye out for the tweet
u should turn notifs on
Just a ping would be nice to have, so everyone is on top of it
I don’t think we will ping everyone for a sale
Lol niceeee
i have that case!
And this doesn't include my seiren mini, my razer phone 2, and my true wireless earbuds
here's what i have: Basilisk Ultimate, Viper Mini, Deathadder Elite, Mouse Dock Chroma, Seiren Elite, Razer Nari Wireless, Razer Kraken Ultimate, Razer Huntsman Elite (main kb), Razer Cynoza Chroma (second kb)
i have too many peripherals LOL
ok guys im gonna be offline for an hour
ill be back soon
does razer respond to support tickets today?
Why do you have two keyboards?
@alpine carbon @lilac blaze and dr.emmet this is for you, how much do you expect the razer basilisk to last for you, would you say its "built to last"
2-3 years
so not really built to last
s a razer Blackwidow X Chroma still good
for 200 dollars
Products are often more expensive in iindia btw
2-3 isnt not much by what i think atleast
i have my g502 for 3 years and it still functions normally
yeah
Im not into typing But I play professional fn (4k + earnings)
Im a 60 wpm typer lol
is that a flex or smth
no
Most ppl cring when I mention fn
so just like not a kid that plays fn
"professionally"
So shud I still buy it or are there better options out there?
There are better options but idk what prices are looking like in India
like a mech keyboard is minimum 60 dollars
when you say that do you mean it will stop functioning then or will start to damage them
I mean before I buy I new one
It would expect it to still function but after that time I recommend buying a new one
How much is a huntsman mini or TE over there?
Im gonna be honest, I just receieved my TW Pro and I honestly can't tell the difference between ANC and Ambiet and regular. Anybody else felt like this
I expect it to last about 3-4 years before i notice the quality is declining
its too bad the LEDs on the Razer Nari/Nari Ultimate are so dim
it would be awesome if they were brighter
fr fr why would you care so much about LEDs
like my guy
how does that affect performance or quality
its just nice to see
its not something you should consider when buying a gaming mouse
you should care about performance and lifespan
@lilac blaze btw i heard about some double click issues, did you ever feel like there is some issue with double clicking with the basilisk ultimate?
@mellow solar The Basilisk Ultimate Cannot Double Click because of its Optical switches.
@mellow solar please avoid stringing messages
what does that mean, stringing messages
posting multiple short messages instead of a couple long ones
hmmm ok, sowwy
all good
How do I get those razer product roles?
tbh i got the basilisk role for no actual reason i dont even own the mouse lol
i guess some mod attached this thing on me manually
This is razer new under 13 inch gaming machine?????? https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10164817926205637&id=880845636&sfnsn=mo
https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/gpd-win3-the-world-s-1st-handheld-aaa-game-console#/. So I'm think 17 inches
Nice
@sacred saddle @mellow solar you get it for being active
nothing to do with owning any products
you can't
that’s annoying, i found a viper ultimates for £30, so cheap because the dongle broke
yeah it sucks
would i work with any wireless dongle
no it wouldnt
oof
i’m just currently going through the search for fbmp for a used viper ult in hopes of finding a cheap one
https://www.reddit.com/r/razer/comments/ehbiqx/razer_cant_replace_viper_ultimate_dongle/ there's a good explanation in the comments here
second cheapest is £70, just hope i get that for my birthday
would there be any way to fix a broken receiver
not that i know of
i believe micro soldering is needed
probably
i have a place near me that does microsoldering
although i’d have to go quite a bit to get it
if you want good luck
why is a box of razer masks $20
can someone help me with my Razer Atheris mouse? its like stuttering sometimes and idk gow to fix it
like sometimes it just freezes and i cant click but when i take it off the mouse pad i can click and stuff its just being weird
or other times its just jumping to places and staying still
ok i found a weird fix to it
when its glitching you turn it 90 degrees and move it around then go back to original position and it starts working
@blazing tree Uninstall Synapse, restart pc then plug headset back into to re-install it
make sure also ur volume output is selected to kraken before u do this
Ty
400$
USD?
cad
For just a keyboard?

Thats obama level if its just for a keyboard
Ok
If it's all you can afford with your budget and you don't have anything better sure
ok
If your budget for a keyboard is 400 no
what about mouse what do you reccomend
Wireless or wired?
wired
Viper or Viper Ultimate
viper ultimate
It's just for talking/being active
Would you want a 60%?
yea
ok
don’t razer sell a membrane keeb for $100
Yep

what where they smoking when they decided that?
whats a membrane keeb

what lmfao
@alpine carbon you wanna explain?
what a membrane keyboard that is^ since youre the keyboard master
i wonder how much it will be
Expensive for a mask definitely
Big if
T.T
They would sell out fast
hence the reason for discord information!
Poggers
i mean from what i've read it sounds like something they are capable of making, just needs to pass a bunch of tests 😛
I bet they are capable of making it
Min posted on Instagram asking if they should make it
yeah >3
i mean even if they dont want to mass produce it, jack up the price and make it a custom thing 😛
How far out do you think it is from release?
At this stage they have a pretty convincing prototype out
depends on their feed back id assume, and how fast they can get the tests approved
Don't know
They likely need to do testing and such to comply with regulations along with some finalizations
They have a few prototypes out just from pictures theyve released
yeah heard in one of the articles they were basically waiting to see how long filters last and make sure things stay working battery life and all that
I am saving 250$ or so from my birthday cause I expect it to cost around that
the box with the uv light is legit
I'm expecting 250-350 usd
Ikr
Yeah I would love to see it irl
I really hope it's not over 250, I don't think that makes a lot of sense, nor can I afford it
ahaha
Yeah I don't think it would make too much sense to be over 250
I do think minimum 200 though
250 seems perfect for this
I think 220$
yeah id do w.e they requested but yeah
That sounds like a perfect price point for this
anything over 250 is a bit much
Yes
199 does sound like the perfect price
yeah
lol
Maybe $229
lets dream big! 59.99
Man I wish lol
Ahaha
I think they could do the standard model like this, and then make a "Hazel Essential" without RGB, less battery life, and no voiceamp or something for 120$
That sounds good
I could see that
is the viper ult work £70?
worth?
i’ve heard of speculation saying it might be around $50 but it’s prolly wrong
ye
I think so
$50 is way too low
it msrps for £150
hence the last part
Ye
meanwhile in steelseries hq writing down an “original” idea for a smart mask
it’s almost like the aerox
Lol wut
haha
steelseries with their earox mice, copied the model o and model o wireless after its huge success
steelseries stans refused that
wouldn’t be surprised if they copied the project hazel
i mean i could see it and then, " we are just trying to protect more people"
when you don’t drop them
or throw them...
same with their keebs, they seem to break to easily with their “amazing build quality”
i have a really cheap headset that survives better then steelseries
they design their headsets in a way that they’ll break easily
The padding on my Arctis 3 is the lightest most comfortable thing ever it really feels like nothing
No exaduration I forget it's there
I've heard mixed things about them
This is just based off of one headset
Razer does copy too, hence the Viper Ballistic copying the shape and design of Logitech's G502
You mean the basilisk?
I don't blame razer doe the g502 is a great mouse shape imo
Maybe, but I got the g502 because I want the original not a copycat
I wouldn't call it a copycat but I also wouldn't call it original
plus that logic makes no sense
slightly less bulky tho
different side buttons
Different surfaces
They just slightly tweeked the g502 and released it
RGB
The g502 has rgb
Not as much
and logo
And the sides
That's kinda nice
It's still a tweeked g502
Nothing will really change that
Which is fine
That's your opinion ig
Just not original
i’ll prolly get the basilisk ult instead of the viper ult
Definitely not original
