#Steam, licenses, laws and ethics

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

mortal frigate
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If you buy a game on Steam you have the legal right (in the EU), to use it for as long as you wish. (until you sell the key)

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In the UK they have a law for that, too.

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(iirc, consumer protection act or so)

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@inland flax we can talk here

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@wary canyon you have bought they key, correct. But you have the right to use it until you sell your key.

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The purchase is a lifelong thing. (until selling the asset)

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Steam allowed offline mode for a reason. (to reassure customers)

inland flax
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There is no point to this

wary canyon
inland flax
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I cannot even being to explain all of the ways you fundamentally misunderstand this topic

wary canyon
wary canyon
inland flax
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I don't blame you for misunderstanding. It could be a language thing but it seems like you just aren't reading what we are saying

inland flax
wary canyon
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You don't own a game if you buy the license to play on Steam - it can be revoked and then you cannot play the game anymore (UNLESS it's an offline game and you have the data backed up -> it doesn't change that you don't own the game though!)

mortal frigate
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sorry, english isn't my native language, but i try to understand you
and i think, i get what you wanted to say.
But then again, this is no different, than when we purchased physical copies: we have not right to sell changed copies, because of spiritual property rights. In both cases (CD/DVD and steam copy), we only have the rights which are written in their EULA.
So there really is no difference.

mortal frigate
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morally, i still own it! (if i didn't harm them, by eg. reverse-engineeer it, etc)

inland flax
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No no no no no no no

wary canyon
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You should do some research

inland flax
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Human rights have nothing to do with this

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Stop confidentially spouting this nonsense you obviously know nothing about

mortal frigate
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there is the german Grundgesetz no law must speak against it.

inland flax
mortal frigate
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it is the foundational law, which all other countries have similar

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we have very strong customer protection laws here in the EU and in FRG (Federal Republic of Germany)

inland flax
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There are ways to own games like GOG which has them DRM free, there are ways to get around it like your offline stuff but at the end of the day on Steam YOU ARE PURCHASING A LICENSE

mortal frigate
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ok, maybe i have to formulate it this way:
our customer protection law in FRG allows us to treat these games as if we own them like a DVD (if we dont harm the interests of the developers)

inland flax
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You are either naive or a troll and I'm done

quartz topaz
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this is a conversation that's been had multiple times with multiple people over multiple years, and the outcome is the same
you don't like the answer you've been given, butyou're arguing with the wrong people

mortal frigate
inland flax
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That isn't the point. The point is Steam is the same service all over the world and all versions of steam are carrying a message saying it is just a license

mortal frigate
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and european laws in EU

inland flax
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GERMAN LAWS DON'T COUNTER THIS

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STEAM IS JUST SELLING LICENSES

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I'm not in the US, I am in the Isle of Man. That message is still there because that is what steam is selling

quartz topaz
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@mortal frigate this graphic is relevant to you:

1_wElFApu8RqDJSwuOrhxISg.jpg
mortal frigate
inland flax
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SAYS WHO

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You agree to the rules of Steam when you sign up

mortal frigate
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also the purchaser must not harm Steam itself, of course

quartz topaz
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@inland flax it's not worth your time, you can't fight belief with reason

inland flax
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You are right. I need to commit to actually stepping back

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It just felt like it should be so easy. Steam sells licenses. Steam says they sell licenses. You buy something on Steam. You buy a license.

mortal frigate
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licenses can only be revoked, if justified by actions of the user

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and playing a game is never a justification (if not cheating in online games)

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of course, if you break the rules of a game, that could mean, you lose that license

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but unless you do that, you own your stuff

inland flax
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"Valve may restrict or cancel your Account or any particular Subscription(s) [steam purchases] at any time in the event that (a) Valve ceases providing such Subscriptions to similarly situated Subscribers generally, or (b) you breach any terms of this Agreement (including any Subscription Terms or Rules of Use). In the event that your Account or a particular Subscription is restricted or terminated or cancelled by Valve for a violation of this Agreement or improper or illegal activity, no refund, including of any Subscription fees or of any unused funds in your Steam Wallet, will be granted." No one disputes that

Ok, done now. Here's the subscriber agreement, read it: https://store.steampowered.com/subscriber_agreement/

Steam Subscriber Agreement
mortal frigate
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that was my whole point: ethics are to be obeyed, even by big corps

inland flax
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And as I said no one said otherwise. You are just inventing points. At this point I think you are a troll and well done to you. You got me, I thought I was helping someone

mortal frigate
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and if a corporation does not obey a moral/ethic, then the user has the right to continue using their product (even if "revoked")

wary canyon
mortal frigate
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i think you misunderstood me the whole time :/ (sorry)

inland flax
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I don't. I am shouting at a brick wall expecting it to change and it is doing me no good. I am however now past the point of caring and can just laugh

mortal frigate
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in the beginning, i meant, that Steam has no rights to revoke a key from a user, who behaves lawfully, that was my whole point all the time.

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And if Steam does revoke a key unethically, then the user has the right to use their copy of the game.

inland flax
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Yeah, no it wasn't

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And if it was I don't know why it was

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You were the only one talking about it

mortal frigate
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sorry, i should have made that clear from the beginning :/