Offset Crisis?

[raven lynx]

You know in fighting games when people talk about character crisis? That's how I feel trying to figure out my offset rn. I was talking about this in general earlier, but I recently got a new keyboard and cannot for the life of me seem to get into the same rhythm I was able to with my old keyboard.
My old keyboard was womier with gateron oils, and my new one is a wooting with lekker v2s. I changed the actuation to 2mm with the lekkers and that seemed to help a bit, but overall my offset plots are all still extremely early. I added 3 pics, first two is with the old keyb and the third is with the new one.
My old offset was -.20ms, and now when I use sync machine it averages around +.20(with the high end being +.38). Granted, I know the sync machine shouldn't be considered the end all be all, but still, the discrepancy is concerning to me.
Today, I spent most of my playtime experimenting with different offsets and felt pretty good with -.02ms, but bounced around between -.10, 0, +.02, and +.10.
My main issue is that, regardless of the offset I still feel like I'm watching the notes rather than listening to how the notes hit in time with the music.
I have a tendency to overcomplicate things, hence the essay, but I need someone who has some more experience than I do to give me a second opinion...Do I just need to get used to the new switches? Am I setting my offset wrong? Am I just not understanding how offsets work in rhythm games period?
I currently am stuck.

[shell jackal]

start with global offset set to 0 and no audio and play something

if your mean is basically 0 then yes it is an audio issue

then you turn the audio on and play a file you know you can definitely basically AAA or at least >97%

on that file, you can either set a score and see what your mean is at the end, or you can start by pressing f6 twice at the start of the song in gameplay and let it run the autosync process for maybe 100 notes max and then hit esc

you shouldnt change offset too often unless its a wireless keyboard or wireless headphones

something else weird is happening if that is the case

changing keyboard can influence offset because of all the factors of a keyboard just being a whole physical thing you have to touch

things are different and feel different and make you play different

[raven lynx]

just did that with the song I sent screenshots of and the mean was 1.75ms

then I played a song I can consistently get 98%(with audio on)

and got a mean of -0.40ms

I used the autosync like you said which got set to -0.30ms

I did only get a 93% on that song, but I'm really tired and need to wake up for work soon so I'll try again tomorrow when I'm more rested

just wanted to share what I've done so far

[shell jackal]

if everything you do gets you a mean of within 2ms there doesnt seem to be anything wrong

[raven lynx]

ok, just got home and did the test again, with sound off on a random song I got a mean of ~10ms

did again just to be safe and got a mean of ~7ms so not that much difference

[shell jackal]

if you are getting a significant mean with audio off, the problem is not audio offset

[raven lynx]

what would it be in that case?

[shell jackal]

you are reading visually and you need to get used to a keyboard change or scroll speed change or change visual delay

[raven lynx]

I did this one again using auto sync and got a mean of ~4ms

[raven lynx]

yea, that was my fear

do you think I should keep the offset to what I had it at before or go to 0?

idk how to find a proper offset while also trying to retrain myself to not read visually

[shell jackal]

put it on 0

if you say you got a mean of anything at all while using autosync you just didnt follow my instructions anyways

letting autosync run for a whole song is going to make it progressively worse

[raven lynx]

my bad, I'm relativley new to etterna, came from dj max, so I'm still getting used to everything

[shell jackal]

go through all this https://community.etternaonline.com/t/dashdashs-offset-routine/367

[raven lynx]

ooooh no, sorry, I did make sure to quit out at around 100 notes

[raven lynx]

ultimately I do just have to get used to the keyboard change

am I just overthinking all of this? lol

[shell jackal]

its a pretty simple thing to figure out unless you have wireless keyboard or headset

it can be a reading issue too

or its how you just play

or if you are too slow for some patterns you hit late

[raven lynx]

I think this is the main thing rn, I need to re-teach myself to not read visually

do you have any advice on how to work through that?

[raven lynx]

both are wired for me also

[shell jackal]

using hidden is what made me an audio player but you can still read visually

[raven lynx]

oh true I forget about hidden

so is it more of a balance between the two? cause, my main reference being dj max, I'm used to relying mostly on note sounds

since a lot of their charts have note sounds programmed per song

I'm also realizing there's a metronome I can put on lol

my main point: I'm more comfortable as an audio player, and I've never had this issue with reading visually before. I think it's just a thing I'll have to figure out with experience?

[shell jackal]

if you f7 in gameplay how well does it go

[raven lynx]

that felt much better

I'm also realizing I have my scroll speed too high

[shell jackal]

1075 50% mini is somewhat lower than actually 1075

[raven lynx]

I turned it down to 1000 and that seems more manageable rn, I know it's supposed to steadily increase as my MSD gets higher tho right?

to be able to read denser files

[shell jackal]

it probably wont get much higher than about 800 raw cmod, where you multiply the cmod value with the receptor size shown in the options menu

[raven lynx]

this one felt the best so far, reducing the scroll speed helped for sure

[shell jackal]

1000 80% size is 800

but "80% mini" is different from "80% receptor size"

[raven lynx]

what's the difference?

[shell jackal]

mini is the older name and the way it works its like 1 - 50% or something

[raven lynx]

i'm still kinda confused ngl, what's the calculation?

[shell jackal]

when you pick a receptor size in the menus the game internally finds the right mini for it

[raven lynx]

oooh I see

[shell jackal]

-- convert a receptor size to a mini because this math is really annoying to memorize
function ReceptorSizeToMini(percent)
    return 2 - percent / 0.5
end

-- convert a mini to receptor size because this math is really annoying
function MiniToReceptorSize(mini)
    return (1 - mini/2)
end

anyways you dont have to worry about mini

what im saying is, look at the receptor size you set in the options menu, and multiply that by the speed

that is the raw cmod unless you set some other perspective mod

[raven lynx]

ah, gotcha

[shell jackal]

people usually dont go much above 800 after multiplying

the highest people are at like 1000

not many

[raven lynx]

cool so average is around 800 raw?

[shell jackal]

yea

[raven lynx]

and 1075C 50% would be ~537 raw?

or wait

hold on

it would be ~806

my receptor size is 75

I see what you're saying about mini now

[shell jackal]

yea we cant change it internally and in the eval screen for backwards compatibility

[raven lynx]

going back to this, is it fine if the mean goes above that? does that just mean I wasn't performing the best that run?

[shell jackal]

your mean can be biased if you play poorly yes

if its outside of like 5 or so you probably sucked hard or maybe there is a sync issue

[raven lynx]

gotcha

that's really making things make sense now

[shell jackal]

just look through random #scores and most people are kind of centered

if theres an offset issue it would be pretty obvious in the graph too

[raven lynx]

ok cool, would it be a mean of like 20+ in the case of a poorly synced chart?

[shell jackal]

it can be

[raven lynx]

mm okay

and, final question, is there an average offset? or is it so subjective per player that there really isn't

[shell jackal]

probably 0

its not normal to have any offset really

but if you need one then you can set it

[raven lynx]

yea, in every other rhythm game I've played I never set one so I think I'll just set it to 0 and relearn

[shell jackal]

i think a lot of offsets are like 0-10ms

in some direction

mine is either 0 or like 1ms

[raven lynx]

gotcha, I'd only really be compensating for audio driver latency atp anyways

well thank you for all the help and info, I really appreciate it..you helped make etterna waaay less daunting to learn as a new player lol