AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FOR THE DM3

[torpid socket]

AUTO DM3

[small tinsel]

please don't...

[tight phoenix]

https://tenor.com/view/nice-click-nice-man-guy-gif-21933845

[worldly zealot]

zf ecomat in question:

[uncut moss]

You mean please do

[small tinsel]

automatic transmission does not know how to analyze the road situation, so it is better in manual mode if you learn

[torpid socket]

Yeah but I'm an an American who is also illiterate and has 3000 guns in my basement with a high suspension V8 Ford for just driving to the local McDonald's

I do apologize if I went too far with the joke

[small tinsel]

and in some sense I am sharing my own experience...

[gaunt geode]

Sequential transmission it is

Pull lever back shift up, push lever forward shift down.

[lusty sable]

this would be awesome

[slate spruce]

N O

[lusty sable]

yes

[slate spruce]

N O

IT TAKES THE FUN AWAY

[lusty sable]

im lazy

cry about it :3

[slate spruce]

then just dont use the DM3

[lusty sable]

but is strong

:(

ykw just to spite you im going to do a job in career mode with the DM3

in realistic mode.

[worldly zealot]

Make a zf ecomat 5hp602c transmission and that is fun

Or what zf transmission the c1 citaro has

[lusty sable]

@slate spruce currently doing a double job

(two jobs at once)

lucky for me they go to the same unloading track

[wraith pier]

isnt the point of the dm3 to be a manual gearbox

[lusty sable]

so?

still'd be fun to have an auto gearbox for the lazy people

[wraith pier]

the auto gearbox doesnt account for how much torque you need for a heavy train

[lusty sable]

what about low and high modes aswell

would help with that :p

[cyan kernel]

the gameplay function of the DM3 is to fit within the DE2 and DE6/S282's power range, whilst being less expensive to maintain and more difficult to operate compared to the DH4

the dm3's a pretty cool lil guy but if you want a medium-sized locomotive thats easy to operate, shoot for the DH4

if you REALLY want to drive the DM3 but dont wanna beat up its transmission trying to properly shift gears, i do not blame you at all, and modding the game to make it automatic does fit well within the point of modding a game

[gaunt geode]

👆

[small tinsel]

I will only add that automation is about convenience and simplicity, and mechanics is about efficiency if you know how to use it

[next burrow]

A lot of ease of access like quickly throttling to zero, switching the gears, and throttling back up is available through keybinds

Keybinds are a godsend for people like me with hand injuries.

[worldly zealot]

sometimes its a pain to move the levers with the mouse

some how it puts it to max

[vestal notch]

just out of curiosity, how would one go about that?

mostly because for me it's the manual aspect of the DM3 that imo, feels like it's not the best loco to choose

[cyan kernel]

I am not familiar with any aspect of modding in derail valley

[vestal notch]

rip

[drifting goblet]

It is at first, but that is fun part that keeps you engaged. DM3 is kind of there as a alterative once the other type of loco's feel to trivial and you don't want to use a steam loco. (try moving levers with mouse wheel)

[worldly zealot]

at that time my mouse wheel wasn't wheeling so i had to move it but sometimes when i touched it it went into 3rd or into 1st

but not it works

[royal tusk]

How about this... Manual CVT?

[gaunt geode]

Manual CVT?????????

[cyan kernel]

how would that work

unless it's just straight up the s282 cutoff

[worldly zealot]

you have two wheels one for the engine side and one for the output side

[deft condor]

https://tenor.com/view/not-today-satan-sabrina-spellman-actress-gif-17781280

[royal tusk]

Yep

In very simple terms

[gaunt geode]

Can it even handle train forces???

[tardy basin]

How about a compromise? Gearbox B being automatic and Gearbox A being manual

[gaunt geode]

Wha

[wraith pier]

what about a locomod which just is a computer chip... that shifts gears depending on a few factors

[twilit acorn]

wouldnt it basically become a DH3?

[wraith pier]

no??

H implies that it has a hydraulic coupling

[grim cradle]

CVTs are infamous for their unreliability

So no, it'd probably blow up

On the other hand, most tractors also use CVTs... 🤔

[storm hearth]

Was gonna say it's only car cvts that suck the tractor ones are awesome

[storm hearth]

Or just make it a power shift

[worldly zealot]

geared cvt👍

[lapis orbit]

Never ones yes,since you can go any speed in that range,exept that they arent as relaible as a mecanical powershift

[ancient ore]

But the computer is probably too dumb for a transmitting system with 2 gearboxes. And it also need to know that shifting gears need actual throttle to be at idle.

[sage cloak]

You Realize That An Automatic DM3 Is Just A DH4 But Without The M/U Control, Right?

[grim cradle]

No, the dm3 is not hydraulic.

[ancient ore]

DH4 does not have a proper gearbox. It has 3 turbos, one at the engine and the other 2 are 1 each wheelset. Engine powers the turbo and make the fluid run down the tubes and flush the other turbos, and turbos power the axis then deliver power to the wheels.

DM3 has a hydraulic part that acts as a semi-automatic clutch, which means that you will not have to operate the clutch yourself like driving a car that has a manual gearbox.

[sage cloak]

DM3 And DH4 Both Have The Same Power Tho So If The DM3 Could Auto Shift Gears And Control The Throttle On It's Own, It Would Just Be A Worse DH4 As It Wouldn't Have The M/U Cables

[ancient ore]

But DH4 doesn't have any gear that can be chosen. The entire conduction system is based on the circulation of some kind of compressible fluid. It's bad when you want to run a high speed with a moderate load, because it will get overheat with the same level of power at a higher speed.

[sage cloak]

T_T

Dude

I'm Not Being Technical, Nor Did Anyone Ask You Too

DM-3

And

DH-4

Have The Same Power By Default

Just 4 Has The Upper Hand By Having M/U Control

[ancient ore]

On the country, the DM3 can control temperature more easily.

[sage cloak]

(do you just mean high up in the hills?)

[ancient ore]

Unless all of your trains are more than 1500 tons, this will not benefit you.

[sage cloak]

ik

[ancient ore]

The major downside of DM3 is the sigle-orientation focused cab.

[sage cloak]

I'd Still Rather Have A 4 Over A 3 Tho, It's Easier For Controls

And Also Has Decent Speed With It's Strength

[ancient ore]

If you usually couple it at the tail of a train, you are 100% right.

[sage cloak]

The Only Places I Can See The 3 Being Particularly Useful Is In Shunting Or Going From Both Forest Camps Too The Saw Mill

[ancient ore]

The only real issue I have ran into with DM3 is running up time for shifting down the gears when going uphill. This is where I need the automatic transmission.

[ancient ore]

I suggest that we should not always try to pull all of the trains from a station to their destinations.

[sage cloak]

I Wouldn't Ever Attempt As Such?

Unless I Had W a y Too Many DE-6's

Now I Wonder On How Many DE-6's I Can Align In 1 Train?

[ancient ore]

Once you need to climb up a hill and make sure it is not too hard by starting it with a higher speed, you will understand the downside of the hydraulic powertrain.

[ancient ore]

It should be my misunderstanding if you will not.

[sage cloak]

I've Never Found A Downside But That May Be My Refusal To Play On Any Higher Difficulty Then Casual / Comfort And My Mods (yes, this includes a cheat menu)

[sage cloak]

Also?

[ancient ore]

No wounder. Cheating will not help you find the best options, or the worst.

[ancient ore]

No more. What are you thinking about
?

[sage cloak]

A: I'm Wondering, Not Wounding
B: I've Tried Standard But I Suck At It :(

[sage cloak]

. . . ?

[ancient ore]

A: You are stupid

B: (Shoot off A)

[sage cloak]

Yes

[sage cloak]

?

[ancient ore]

They are Americans. They have guns.

[sage cloak]

Fair Point

[verbal obsidian]

I have just one question:
what’s the point?
You might aswell just drive a DH4 or DE2 if you don’t want to switch gears manually

[ancient ore]

I guess this is why the automatic transmission is not an official option yet.

[sage cloak]

I Agree With Spooks On Their Point + The Question
Hell, If U Hate The Gears So Much But Don't Want A 2 Or A 4, Go For An 060

And Also My Prior Point Of 3 And 4 Havin' The Same Power

[royal tusk]

Could always use a CVT from a tractor

[worldly zealot]

Train have more weight tho

[torpid socket]

Says goodbye to torque

[worldly zealot]

geared cvt might gonna be good for this i think

[storm hearth]

https://youtu.be/dgtIKMAjvFI?si=NOU7S9ZcqtAUKFw5 this lad

[untold shale]

car ones are rubbish grade, however higher performance ones such as those used in tractors are "CVT"s, its basically a hydraulic-ish transmission with many mechanical gears
Hum, agco's one is a lot simpler than case(?) one

CVT dm3 is something that would like to drive, guessing it would provide quite a nice performance boost

[lapis orbit]

Agco owns case so it shold be prety similar

At least never tractor wise

[untold shale]

ha....its all the same producer, gaaaaaaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrr

[storm hearth]

The case ones have a 4 speed power swift where as agco and John deere have a 2 speed

[simple venture]

Just use the DH4

it's basically the DM3 but with an automatic transmission

[storm hearth]

I agree but disagree at the same time cause the DH4 would give the desired effect but it also expensive

and nonself lapping airbrakes are just fun

[simple venture]

Expensive is the cost of automatic

Diesel-hydraulic locomotives are to automatic-transmission cars as diesel-mechanical locomotives are to manual-transmission cars and the DH4 has about the same pulling power as the DM3

[storm hearth]

🤷‍♂️

[ancient ore]

I have checked. The engine of DH4 has turbo boost compared to DM3.

[simple venture]

...it has a turbocharger?

[tight phoenix]

Automatic for the DM-1U would be useful

[storm hearth]

That one's even easier then the dm3

[tight phoenix]

I just want it because this

[storm hearth]

Why do you need a wheel slip controller In a dm1u lol

[storm hearth]

That really grinds my gears

[tight phoenix]

Because it has low tonnage rating and only one powered axle so it tends to slip a lot under tonnage

[tight phoenix]

Funny

[storm hearth]

It's not meant to pull the world

[tight phoenix]

But i w a n t i t t o

[storm hearth]

😭

Dm1u stronk

[storm hearth]

I think the DM1U would be better with a power shift than a CVT power shifts are just cool

[simple venture]

Yeah if you're actually pulling stuff with the DM1U the wheelslip computer is very helpful

specifically right when starting

[ancient ore]

Add a button and turn if off when you shift gear?

[worldly zealot]

idk how to slip the railbus when shifting up or down

[tight phoenix]

Maybe automatic transmission could a gadget the you can mount on your Dm-3 or 1U

+clutch

[sage cloak]

Okay, That I Just Don't Get, Why Make It Mechanical And Not Just Like A Modified DE-2, Or Hell, Make It Diesel Electric, Not Diesel Mechanical

It Ain't Pullin' Much As A Mechanical Anyways Aside From It And It's Utility Wagon

[tight phoenix]

Ok

[sage cloak]

It Ain't Wrong

[tight phoenix]

Ok

[simple venture]

because the railbus it was based on is diesel-mechanical

iirc it's an actual bus modified into a railbus and then into a utility railbus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uerdingen_railbus

oh, it may be based on these

[worldly zealot]

It is based on this but the serbian version of them

[simple venture]

That adds up

[worldly zealot]

(Thats why it is silver and not red as the serbians have them in silver)

[ionic moss]

I support this. I wouldn't mind if it had the same gearing like the utility train tho as that is fairly easy and enjoyable to drive

[teal creek]

Torque converter not turbo

[sage cloak]

Why Where The Railbusses Mechanical To Begin With?

Was It To Help With Traction?

In That Being The Case, Wouldn't They Just Be Able To Make It DH Instead Or Did They Not Have Access Too That?

[teal creek]

Probably just easiest

[worldly zealot]

To be cheap and easy to build and maintain

[simple venture]

Also probably more efficient

[rough sail]

There have been DH locos as far back as 1935, with the DRG V 140. As Bonnie said, DM was just the cheapest and easiest option - it's quite a common option for railbuses due to that (and being efficient, as Bio said).

[sage cloak]

Dang, Okie

[sage cloak]

Also Fair

[cyan kernel]

diesel electrics probably would have the upper hand in efficiency due to having the ability to idle at any speed

i think they probably did do it to be cheaper in building & repairs

[torpid socket]

Somehow despite being 12 months ago this is still active

[rare halo]

you sure it was a joke?

[quartz matrix]

so you want a slow AND less powerfull dm3

[rare halo]

[lapis orbit]

💀 thats kinda allready a thing with dm3,il keep shifting gears

Altho a powershift version wold be 🔥

[quartz matrix]

the closest we have to a automatic transmition is in the dh4

[cyan kernel]

its automatic transmission if you leave it in gear 3-3

[ancient ore]

Have you tried to pull a slightly overloaded train in gear 3-3 uphill an average slope of 1~2? I think it will not gonna make it before you shift to a gear lower than 2-2.

[cyan kernel]

The Lord of Dry Humor has Proven You Unworthy. Pray that It has Mercy.

https://tenor.com/view/piccolo-dap-dap-dap-up-dap-me-up-gohan-dap-gif-932435329125383337

[lapis orbit]

https://tenor.com/view/-gif-3522329

[storm hearth]

That's what I'm saying

Even better a linear power switch like a box car I'll find a pic

18 speed power swift go brrrrr

And the 4th gens even have 19 speeds

[lapis orbit]

Looks like a 7000 series case 😁

[storm hearth]

Yes sir

Box car for the win

We got a 7110 fwd early Model also known as no speed in reverse And a late model 7210 2wd

[lapis orbit]

those are bomb proof lil tractors

[storm hearth]

Yeah our 7110 has 12000 something hours on it 1 whole engine overhaul the 72 is 7000 hours I think small amount of engine work they are damn good only real problem with the 7110 is it needs a new cooling thermostat other then that there great cold af AC hot AF heating great seats love them things

[wise horizon]

No it's fun... If anything I feel the DM3 needs a little bit more low end power because that's what it advertises, and it really doesn't do it as well as I feel it should

[gaunt geode]

Not enough torque you mean or does it just wheel slip?

[austere crater]

as someone who mainly drives the DM3 i can full hardly say i dont want this at all

[storm hearth]

Still think a power shift would be better than a CVT

[ancient ore]

I think a CVT will make it feels like DH locomotives. Only gears and auto transmission could save it. I'm playing with keyboard and mouse, if I pull a heavy train uphill, by the time I release throttle for a gear shift, it slows down to the best speedzone for another gear. When I made it enter that gear and had it full throttle, it was already too slow for that gear.

[storm hearth]

That's why we need a power shift

[ancient ore]

And why I want it automatic - It must be way faster than how much I can do it. Wait, why don't give us a gadget for this?

[storm hearth]

With a power shift it would be the same as rn but you don't need to let the throttle off to swift a fully automatic would take all the fun out of it

[grizzled meadow]

I mean, we got auto firing mod, so only makes sense to have an auto shift mod for the manual transmission diesels

[strange valley]

wow this is divisive...??? some people are incapable of learning to drive a manual in anything but first and maybe second gear, remember folks, this is an ACCESSABILITY mod, not a fuckin Be A Lazy Git mod - there are excellent reasons to ask for one and all the haters foaming about how it wouldn't be "fun" can get stuffed because I also need this mod.

y'all i spent literally a decade trying to learn to drive stick IRL and failed, i'm a lost cause i need an auto-shifter even if it grinds the transmission to hell compared to "doing it manually"

[wraith pier]

I really dont think its that bad

some people literally just dont want to have a hard time whilst playing games

[untold shale]

driving dm3 isn't that hard, bloody hell, one doesn't need to be einstein to drive manual. Its literally not even all of the first driving lesson
Thing that would like for auto dm3 would be with a big number of transmission ratios for better performance

[teal creek]

All u need to do is check tacometer when it gets to 9 or 10 but throttle and change to the next gear up and then 5-7 when slowing down

[verbal obsidian]

Ok I would like to go back on my previous comment saying that this is a bad idea because um
I’m stupid
I’d probably smash the manual on this thing on my first time driving it so I’ll make a suggestion instead

We could have this as a simple accessibility mod that shifts gears on its own while in the DM3
Or we could add a new gadget: the Automatic Gearbox computer
Which not only gives auto gear shifting for the DM3, but can also be compatible with the steam locomotives, automatically bringing the cutoff up or down depending on how fast the engine is going

I know that might be going a bit far and I know steam locomotives don’t exactly work like that, but I just wanted to expand the functionality of a new gadget a little bit

[carmine flax]

Things are very simple, there are people who want this feature but not enough to request it to be implemented in the vanilla, so they are just asking modders to do it.
All that matters is whether a modder is interested in creating it.

I think discussing the skill issues of someone or the mechanical engineering of the locomotive misses the point.

[untold shale]

unfortunately don't know of any plans for a framework mod that allows simulation data to be changed😢, interest also seems lacking in that aspect

[gaunt geode]

It’s wild how having auto fireman is acceptable but turning a manual into an automatic is a death sentence

[pulsar siren]

seems doable imo looking at how its all implemented

if theres a way to add new component definitions

just swap out ManualTransmissionInput for something that can read in the tachometer and maybe a couple other things

that wouldnt make the levers visibly move tho

[untold shale]

wouldn't it be possible to change that port with the one of dh4(automatic) but of course, with the correct ratios?

[pulsar siren]

for making it a gadget i got no idea

[pulsar siren]

true i think the code that switches between the different torque converters is seperate to the rest of the hydraulic transmission

idk how you would get that to write back to the lever positions tho (if people care about being able to see the current gear)

might be possible to cobble it together in just data files without modifying code then

not sure how to unpack or patch the asset files tho, havent really messed with unity b4

[rough sail]

That's a pretty standard practice to hate making anything manual automatic, especially in the car community. When the Hirochi Aurata came out for BeamNG.drive, people lambasted it for only having a CVT and not having a manual. Within a day, about five or six mods were made that added a manual or sequential gearbox for it. Whereas the auto fireman is more understandable (and desirable) for many people, as typically, steamers run with at least two people.

To be honest, I don't quite get why people would want to have an automatic DM3 when the DH4 exists, but I'm not gonna stop anyone from making an auto-DM3 mod. It's not like I could stop anyone from doing so, either.

[pulsar siren]

this is true

i dont really want an automatic dm3 but i thought it would be fun to try implementing

however, a dm3 which automatically zeros the throttle when shifting would be pretty cool, maybe i should try and do that

[worldly zealot]

Zf ecomat in the dm3🗣🗣🗣🗣

[pulsar siren]

pretty sure thats a hydraulic transmission so that would be dh3 💀

[rough sail]

To be fair, there is at least one DH loco that looks a lot like the DM3 (the PKP Lyd2), so it's not entirely unreasonable.

[untold shale]

powershift, that would be nice indeed

[strange valley]

i love the cab of the dm3

so much room :3

[rough sail]

Right, makes sense.

[storm hearth]

i think a power shift would be the best way to do this not dh-4 level easy but still not as hard as it is now

[worldly zealot]

Hydro clutch and air actuated gear changer

[ivory cedar]

Ma man THE CAPITALIZATION is buggin me hard

[sage cloak]

Hm . . . Kewl, Good For You

[torpid socket]

e

[tight phoenix]

a

[storm hearth]

T

[ivory cedar]

(Space)

[storm hearth]

F

[verbal obsidian]

𝄽

[tardy basin]

I mean, I have used it (coupled with the BE2) to pull the last stretch of the southern approach to Sawmill when my S060 stalls with half a kiloton of freight

[gaunt geode]

Kiloton???

[tardy basin]

1000 tons

[storm hearth]

Lol

[simple venture]

alternatively, gigagrams

[tardy basin]

0.5 Gg

[simple venture]

Yep!

[gaunt geode]

Fucking what

[strong prism]

Wouldn't have thought this would be so polarizing wow.

I think an electro-mechanically shifted automated manual transmission in the DM3 would be very cool. Something a bit different and interesting. It's not like people are forced to use it lmao.

Very little would need to be changed because AMTs still use the same manual gearbox.

Modern AMTs in road vehicles usually let the driver shift manually without having to operate the clutch in addition to the automatic shifting so the DMA3 (coining it now) could still be shifted manually potentially.

[untold shale]

manual gearing is also a religion, which is why my desire for CVT dm3 also met with.......no approval

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/derail_valley/images/8/8c/Dm3_UPW.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/1000?cb=20250225140343
we would gain up to 7% performance with one

[full sphinx]

give the DM3 a worn out slushbox (aka hydraulic automatic transmission w/valve body) that needs 5 seconds to make a decision

[solid kettle]

that's what the DH4 is for

[simple venture]

This would be fine, perhaps as a gadget

[simple venture]

iirc part of this is because there has never been a CVT locomotive -- pure mechanical CVT with no pulleys is fairly new and I don't think either geared or pulley-based CVT is strong enough for trains

[untold shale]

if it works for +-500hp tractors, it will work for +-100kW DMs, well, tractor CVTs are +-a many mechanical geared hydraulic transmission but aaaaaaannnyyyywaaaay, still provides better performance and lower fuel consumption which is great

https://stmaaprodfwsite.blob.core.windows.net/assets/sites/1/2019/09/Fendt-Vario-with-labels.jpg
fendt one

[storm hearth]

Well if we call the 90s new

But for this game ig that is new

[simple venture]

I believe this is mixed hydraulic-mechanical

[simple venture]

Also yes
The newest vehicles in the game are from the '80s

[storm hearth]

Yeah that crossed my mind after I sent that

[storm hearth]

Hence for this

[simple venture]

Anyway, there is a design for a fully geared, purely mechanical, non-pulley-based and non-hydraulic CVT
But it’s very new—within the past two years at most—and hasn’t hit market. Way too new for a DM locomotive

[untold shale]

also not a proven design, ones in tractors aren't new stuff which makes them a good base for simulating it

[simple venture]

Yep
But being part hydraulic means it’d end up as a DH designation

Which would be great too, mind you

[untold shale]

its a shame that there is no mod to adjust base game simulation, supposedly most stuff is read-only so changing in-game is impossible/hard/not supposed

[royal tusk]

Supposedly Toyota created it and they've put it in newer vehicles. A gear cvt vs a belt cvt like Nissan or Mitsubishi