The Vessel is coming to Backerkit! Play a warlock or witch in Draw Steel!

[jovial glen]

The Vessel Class is a third party digital supplement for the Draw Steel TTRPG system by MCDM Productions. Coming from another TTRPG with a Warlock or Witch? This is the class for you!

You made a pact with an otherworldly being in exchange for power. Thanks to this bargain, a mote of that being’s essence has taken root within you. You have been granted great power, at great price. Whether you revel in your work as a harbinger, or resent the terms of your pact, you use these powers to your own ends - and perhaps, unknowingly, something else’s.

As a vessel, you debilitate your enemies and bolster yourself, sacrificing long-term power for short term gain (or vice versa). You call on otherworldly gifts to rend your foes’ souls, and glimpse into the realms beyond ours.

The campaign drops just after Draw Steel itself, on the 18th of July. A preview PDF of the class will be dropped at the same time with better formatting, but you can see the google docs version right now!

If the idea of the class interests you at all, please express that interest by pressing the link below. It's one button!
https://www.backerkit.com/call_to_action/0fa2e8f5-8c20-43ea-9232-bfec3a65afbf/landing

And you can find the pre-pdf version of the class (levels 1-5) right here! You may have seen sneak previews before from workshopping it in this very server for months!
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XxXtnPoQ6Jmx089L4iKXtG67QFfDpWHskc-YSrPMvuA/edit?usp=sharing

[silver ermine]

Awesome class. Always be bargaining!

[jovial glen]

this also means i get to tease the higher level features hehehe

[wraith epoch]

This is so cool

[scarlet linden]

Excellent! Wishing you well on this @jovial glen

[golden sail]

Taking my mod pants off (it's okay I wear normal pants underneath), as a "consumer" it feels a little distracting to the design to use the name MCDM has slated for their class for your take on a similar but different niche.

The design intent is interesting, though personally I don't love things that expect a player to sacrifice their health to do their cool thing.

Interested to watch the project for sure, interested to see if it ends up the sort of thing I'd want to offer up to players.

[jovial glen]

i actually replied to a reddit comment about this a sec ago
if the name is an issue I don't mind changing it. It honestly hasn't occurred to me and nobody'd brought it up as an issue yet. I don't intend to trick people into thinking this is official in any way. I just think my class is rad

given multiple different people talking about this there's a very real chance i brainstorm new name concepts between this and the next time I post about it

i was very wary of players sacrificing health as well. the original version of the class ate into recoveries, but it didn't feel dramatic enough

it also has stuff to mitigate it as a major issue (10 recoveries rather than 8 like most squishies, temp stamina generation for themself as a class subtheme)

[golden sail]

I don't mean to suggest you intended to trick anyone, just that the name being the same can be a source of confusion or disappointment, which takes up space in the discussion/thought of your design

[jovial glen]

didnt mean to intend you did! just figured it was worth mentioning while i was there

if the class ends up being renamed to the Harbinger or the Covenant or whatever then i can live with that

[golden sail]

A key-ability focused class, especially one with interesting ways to interact with and trigger that ability, is something I do really like so I will follow along/look closer at the 5 level doc for sure!

I just have a kneejerk reaction to those kind of "health as action points" mechanics as I've seen a lot of players either feel frustrated that they have to engage with that, like a punishment for choosing the class, or just not use the core abilities (looking at you 5e blood hunter)

[jovial glen]

i understand that as a hurdle
i've definitely had a player scared to engage with bargaining but i converted them once the payoffs were suitably juicy

"oooh i shouldnt... but it'd be so cool..." is one of the core emotions i'm looking to evoke here

[golden sail]

I think the 5e talent approached the risk/reward of a similar mechanic in a much better way than the blood hunter did, so I can definitely see it working, and I'll look closer at the class to see where that line sits for me right now

[jovial glen]

i do also think theres a chance that if that kind of mitigation, mtg black style gameplay isn't something you enjoy (speaking as a person with OCD, i could see it), it could be that the class just isn't the vibe for that kind of player

comparing it to conduit's praying was emboldening to me

[scarlet linden]

So, way back when, I also wanted sort of a 5e Warlock clone, and name I came up with that you're welcome to is "The Irreverant" - not sure if that's cool or not shrugs

[jovial glen]

that's a pretty sick name i wont lie

a tad long but 🤔

[golden sail]

I think having a better understanding of where it lies in that play-space will make it easier for me to engage with the class as like, recommending it to players/friends who i know would enjoy that

[jovial glen]

i'm excited for you to read it and to tell me that the bargain feature's bonus to area effects is cracked

as it seems everyone who reads the class before playtesting it does :v

it tempts me to make it +1 instead of +2 every time but then i remember this is draw steel and isn't for coward designers

[scarlet linden]

Well, just "Irreverant" would be good. I also thought being a Revenant Irreverent would be a bit too much alliteration

[jovial glen]

my issue is just that its kinda hard to say

like its sick but it lacks the punch of the shadow or conduit

i'll think about it

"reverent" would be sick but yeah a reverent revenant is remarkably silly

advocate (too law), agent (too spy)...

implement (too esoteric)

[golden sail]

I definitely wouldn't have any strong opinions on balance yet, But I can definitely see why people might assume that. There's always a weirdness balancing for play vs reading (i recall the oldrigger had this style of thing come into discussion a lot)

[jovial glen]

i know! i'll call it the conduit!

https://tenor.com/view/american-psycho-willem-dafoe-duh-duhh-obviously-gif-16794513

[quaint karma]

It reads like a warlock

[jovial glen]

oh hey! are you the reddit person

[golden sail]

... if it reads like a warlock, swims like a warlock, it must be a duck? (i'll put my mod pants back on and wander around the server again)

[jovial glen]

it is a warlock
i could just call it the warlock
but i dont want to directly compare too hard to any cough d20 fantasy

and its less evocative

[scarlet linden]

Yep, its a problem - because people KNOW what a warlock is - but then its copying. I think IF you call it a warlock its not the end of the world ( I gave up trying to call my not-druid druid something else)

[opaque notch]

Waerloga is always open

[quaint karma]

Yes, to my regret, I am also a redditor

[jovial glen]

i cant judge. im with you in the mines

[vast violet]

Executor

[jovial glen]

i understand your reticence about the class but i'm more than willing to show my work with testing, either to change it if it's fucked or to demonstrate that it's fine
you get used to it when you get serious about card game design

[jovial glen]

oh i love the dual meaning but i think the less accurate meaning takes more precedence in peoples minds unfortunately

i don't need to field name ideas by the by, i intend to put in the time to figure it out

i also feel bad taking ideas from people for something i'm crowdfunding off

[vast violet]

Yeah, on its own, it's a badass sounding word. Then the specific, literal definition brings it to a different place

[jovial glen]

(which isn't to say don't do it if you don't care but just keep it in mind)

ironically (or maybe the opposite) hexer would also be an apt name

[jovial glen]

btw if you're here i can at least commiserate on the area expansion enchantment (or well, kit)
i remember the hole wizard (earth elementalist with... frigid?) whose holes were expanded by it very clearly shudders

[quaint karma]

Yeah, I've participated in most of the playtests that saw the continual nerf of Area buffs. The heady days of a Fury being able to hit all goblins inside of a keep with a single halberd ability, and so on.

Hence why I'm so skeptical of a core balancing feature that grants +2 Area for the whole encounter. Like, as part of your balancing, does the Bargain maneuver become necessary to make Area abilities worth it?

[golden sail]

Apparently this is where I learn we removed the Blimey emote ages ago

But, uh, blimey

[jovial glen]

not in my experience, which is why it's the sweet spot i'm aiming for (though the higher level features probably need more hammering at on that front)

again, it started at +1 area but it didn't feel dramatic enough and has worked out at 2 so far

[quaint karma]

So can you play the class without using Bargain?

[jovial glen]

not... really?

you can't play the class without using a core class feature

you can play the class without always immediately slamming the area buff with bargain though

which is i think more of what you're getting at?

[jovial glen]

(the original idea was that each was twice as good as a passive enchantment, because you start at deficit but then pay cost to go above for a net positive of '1', and it was area +1 with the idea that that's twice as good as the other enchantments, but repeatedly bargaining to expand an area by 1 wasn't hitting the dramatic beat of impacting things enough)

[jovial glen]

for a bit there was an issue with uhh

bone burst,

being a sig action where you could bargain a bunch and then just spam the bone burst button

that was back when each level of it had knockback rather than flash from beyond

now flash from beyond is the 'bargainers dream' sig action and bone burst got reduced way down to merely be 'very good' with the area expansion

[quaint karma]

When did the Bargain become EoE?

[jovial glen]

in abstract or do you want a literal date

i can provide the latter, former is going to require brainpower i dont have at 3am

[quaint karma]

No worries and no rush, just curious about the design path the class took

[jovial glen]

its fun to see the super early stuff
survey (google docs' history feature) says it started EoE october 28th, got tested at per turn from december 1st to 20th, then got flipped back with a power boost

i think that was related to my undying acolyte player not wanting to bargain at any point

the idea being it needed to be worth it on-the-turn bare minimum for dramatic effect, and then just letting the player keep it EoE (aka 1-2 more rounds, realistically) was just gravy

yeah around jan 10th a version closer to current appears

i know the rolled damage boost was +3 at one point and then got reverted for being way too much with aoes but i cant remember when that was and id have to trawl

[jovial glen]

ok a random look says its +3 on march 2nd so id have to look around that time

w/e

i should go to bed

[jovial glen]

again part of the whole 'draw steel isn't a game for designers who are cowards' thing

[jovial glen]

@vital fractal

[jovial glen]

Matte's Acolyte is coming to Backerkit! Play a warlock or witch in Draw Steel!

[jovial glen]

(this is a temp measure, the next time i post about the class in ~2 weeks it will hopefully have a new name)

in recompense, here's another higher level teaser :D

[silver ermine]

I don't mind at all.

Suggestions for an alternative name:
The Pactbearer
The Bound
The Vessel
The Occultist
The Thrall

[jovial glen]

well, speaking on that

ah, this server has polls disabled

well
1️⃣ The Harbinger
2️⃣ The Bound
3️⃣ The Vessel
4️⃣ The Covenant

Note: this is not actually a democracy and I may override it.

[jovial glen]

i think the Bound is the most descriptive for what the class actually is

though i want to stick the word Covenant somewhere but i don't know where

i considered replacing Boon with it but it doesn't roll well off the tongue

and the subclasses are based on what you're dealing with, not how you're dealing with it

saying an "infernal bound" sucks though

to that end, vessel might be the play

saying you're an infernal vessel fucking rules

[young ore]

I’d also vibe with just Witch? Maybe to simple an idea

[jovial glen]

i want to avoid warlock and witch

plus the class isnt actually that witchy

its just it has the reference to deals with extraplanar beings the pf2e witch hits

The Vessel is coming to Backerkit! Play a warlock or witch in Draw Steel!

it is Done

no longer are we acolytes of otherworldly beings

instead, we are vessels for their glorious power

praise be.

[craggy dagger]

Hopefully i can be a vessel to something disgusting soon enough!

[pallid cedar]

Nice, looks very interesting and I’m happy to see bargaining survived ❤️

[vital fractal]

Nice I like the name 🙂

[jovial glen]

with the rename i'm also contemplating renaming the heroic resource

the current forerunner is Ruin, though that requires renaming the eventual demon subclass from The Ruin

oh, it can be the Hunger

i think thats a better name in general for the subclass honestly

esp since i dont think ruin is necessarily the play, but it's in the ballpark

i dont know if all acolytes build ruin

malediction is a bit wordy

hex feels a bit off

oh

dread 🤔

ire

I shouldnt be brainstorming in this channel, i only posted this to backerkit because I felt happy with where the class was at 😄

[scarlet linden]

Vessel sounds great. I think you nailed it.

[silver sinew]

Love this and the new name! I agree with the warlock sentiment. Looking forward to seeing more!

Had a player who was a paladin in my 5e game that we transitioned over from. He settled on censor as the natural analogue, but he was about to change to warlock. He's very interested in trying this out!

[jovial glen]

i think my forerunner for a heroic resource name is ire currently

i enjoy its undertones of disdain

[silver sinew]

Ire-ally don't like vibe of it. (apologies, I wanted to make a pun. I don't feel that passionately about it in a negative way)

My usual concern with more... "evil"/grey/sinister character options is it distracts from the more heroic tones of the games I enjoy. I know DS's idea of Heroic isn't "I'm a goodie-two-shoes". But I worry it would lean in too much feeling more sinister than I'd prefer. Just food for thought. I like fervor, perhaps there are words like it that could be less nefariouslt evil sounding.

[jovial glen]

i think if you're playing the class you can easily tone down the evil vibes but i'm taking a page from mcdm's book and leaning in to the drama in the flavour

[silver sinew]

I will say, Im a bit burnt on the vibes these options can bring because I play with a lot of folks who just wanna do grim dark/dark souls in every single campaign they play. Very much a me thing. Just worried it'll encourage tones that not every director will want out of the box. Just an anecdote, but I totslly agree with you.

[jovial glen]

i think that's also true of a base class like the troubadour and is easily handled on a table by table basis

though honestly to a lesser degree than the troubadour since the mechanics of the class don't rely as heavily on it

[silver sinew]

I talked about it with a player and he's stoked. We're gonna class change him at an appropriate time so he can playtest it

[jovial glen]

the forerunners are ire and favor and neither of them fuuuully click

[jovial glen]

i'm excited to hear how it goes!
tell him to remember: always be bargaining, and

[silver sinew]

Probably gonna do the infernal one. Based on some stuff I had setup. Though undying would also work.

[silver sinew]

I'm doing some things with the chain of acheron, but my own twist.

[jovial glen]

sick as fuck

[silver sinew]

He was considering doing a mock illrigger censor. But this is more what he wanted

[jovial glen]

i will note that it's certainly less weapon oriented than the censor or illrigger

[silver sinew]

That's exactly why!

[jovial glen]

but if thats not the concern then just taking the - ah perfect!

[silver sinew]

He's more of a spell caster fan, coming from being primarily a 5e player.

[jovial glen]

here's todays higher level teaser for now

[jovial glen]

i have been beaten and broken
i think favor has won out as the HR name

[silver sinew]

Are you looking for suggestions at all? I'm sure there would be a bunch that you've considered already

[jovial glen]

sure, but i think its unlikely you will hit something i havent already. but maybe!

[silver sinew]

Zeal was the big one I was thinking of. Fervor has a bit of a weird mouthful. Not awful, but just slightly awkward.

I think you said you'd prefer something shorter. I would of said Conviction.

[jovial glen]

zeal feels very paladin censor to me

[silver sinew]

Fair. Was thinking mostly in relation to cultist zealots, which might not be expressly the fantasy being served. I still like Fervor, don't get me wrong. Just thinking out loud (sort of lol)

[scarlet linden]

shoot, I didn't even vote, but that was the one I was thinking. Good choice 😄

[jovial glen]

im comparing two documents with the different words for it

favor feels like the objectively correct, safe choice that most other people seem to think is apt

but this is draw steel

and in my heart of hearts, i'm being pulled to ire

[silver sinew]

They're both solid. I think I'm getting on board with Ire the more I think about it haha

"I am a vessel of hatred, and you shall feel my ire"

[silver ermine]

Ire doesn't really work for Archefey for instance. Or even Aberrant imo.

[jovial glen]

you absolutely draw the ire of an archfey

thats a classic trope

its a better word for it than anger, even

its anger but also annoyance with an undertone of disdain
i think all patrons can have their ire drawn

i think your aberrant patron's ire can absolutely be drawn thats also a classic trope

ok

decision made

i'm doing favour

you should gain favour you shouldnt gain ire

[silver sinew]

And if you go into debt, Ire!

-# kidding

[jovial glen]

extremely funny that i only have to change 2 letters

[silver sinew]

Or maybe it should be ire-ess 🤔

They might want their taxes!

[jovial glen]

the Arbiter is a different class

they build Interest

a DS class that builds interest on their HR is actually kinda funny

[silver sinew]

Time for the Merchant class who builds Capital! But not in a day, over time.

[scarlet linden]

Well, something to consider - what is the name of the Epic Resource? Maybe one of those can be that?

[jovial glen]

currently, ardor but honestly great shout

[scarlet linden]

The thing that throws me is that Ire feels like a punishment that your patron is using on you - where as favor is something you're using FROM your patron to enact your stuff; both are thematic - but Favor feels more like a 'resource'.

"I lack enough favor from my patron" sounds right when you can't cast a spell, but "I don't have enough Ire, that's why I can't blast you" feels a bit more tonally off?

[jovial glen]

thats why i went with favor and decided against ire for the epic resource :p

[jovial glen]

its Dominion currently fwiw

[craggy dagger]

Dominion sounds really cool

[scarlet linden]

Now THAT sounds epic

[jovial glen]

here's today's preview, don't expect too many more until the next wave 👀