#ability math...analysis

310 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

fresh fable
#

working on deciphering the math behind abilities for classes and kits, others are invited to join in

#

I started doing some of this in the monster math but realized I should probably make it its own thing.

#

to start with we have broken down the following patterns for damage in all signature abilities including kits.

#

2/3/5, 2/4/6, 2/5/7, 3/5/8. and 3/6/9

#

this can also be viewed as 2/4/6, and 3/6/9 each with the option of +1 or -1 to tier 2 and 3 as a modification

#

no example of 3/7/10 exists but it is theoretically possible

#

other things of note, classes that have kits that gain an ability that is a magic or psionic ability with no weapon keyword (or in the nulls case with the weapon keyword but no option for kits) have a +2 bonus at all tiers to balance the power with that of the kits.

#

This bonus is not present for casters like the conduit, elementalist, or talent.

#

commonly you will find abilities with tiered potency conditions to be using 2/5/7. the conditions commonly applied are slowed (save ends), grabbed, and prone.

#

in these cases I would call them low impact conditions

#

as well as the weakened condition

#

in general being ranged 10 for non kit, melee 1, or ranged 5 for kitted seem to have no impact on the power

#

their are abilities with fixed amount of square shifts, and other effects, and ones based on a characteristic. These have some implications that fixed is of lower value than the characteristic which would grow with the character

#

for area of effects we find 2 cube within 1, 2 cube withn 10, and burst 1 to be of generally equal value and when they push it up to a higher burst such as 2, or a cube of 3 that they reduce power or balance against it in other ways.

#

must multi targeting attacks including area of effect run with the 2/4/6 or 2/5/7

#

2/4/6 if they have an effect that makes them more likely to be effective, and 2/5/7 for more plain

#

in general typed damage does not seem to have an impact on power as best as I can tell

#

vertical pull, push, and slide all appear and clearly have different values.

#

in general vertical pull is the lowest valued, followed by push and then slide

#

for standard power we would see a push of 2,3,4, subtracting 1 off each tier for slide, or in theory adding one on for pull.

#

most of these if single target show up using 3/5/8

#

which is a reduction on the 3/6/9

#

but if AOE tend to show up as 2/5/7 but with one less square.

#

so a push might be 1/2/3

#

while slide would have 1 at tier 2 and 2 at tier 3

#

a rarity noticed in analysis was that nearly identical ranged spells for push used 2/3/4 but damageof 3/5/8 and 2/4/7 the only difference being one did do fire damage but in other cases typed didn't seem to change the power

fresh fable
#

in some cases you will find a feature that only affects creatures instead of creatures and objects while most of the time this does appear to be thematic it can be noted that it could be a minor balance feature

#

I didn't notice any one class I would call high damage, even the fury and the shadow signature abilities tended to have more 2/4/6 based features with effects than 3/6/9

young whale
#

Fury has a 3/6/9 signature with added push 1/2/4

#

also worth noting that every signature the shadow has either direct bonus damage, or surge generation.

fresh fable
#

That is true, so that might be where the high damage comes in, I will say that I noticed a number of the fury abilities do grant an effect or increased effect at tier 3.

#

For the push ability it is 1 square behind for what I would expect for push normally but is at full power for damage. And then tier 3 has what we would expect for push at that stage. I also came across an oddity of an ability that was 3/5/9 I think that one was a typo

young whale
#

Also I did this math out in a nother thread, but I realize I should probably post it here

#

I don't think it's a 2/4/6 with modifer, and a 3/6/9 with modifier

#

I think it's a single chain of damage increase, where each increment gives +1 to two different tiers

#

Going in the following order:
0/+1/+1
0/+1/+1
+1/0/+1

#

Filling out the pattern:
3/7/10
4/7/11
4/8/12
4/9/13
5/9/14
5/10/15
5/11/16
6/11/17
6/12/18
6/13/19
7/13/20

fresh fable
#

I haven't been doing digging through the heroic abilities yet, the 2/4/6 and 3/6/9 are just in signature abilities.

#

Are the above the growth rates to the heroic powers?

young whale
fresh fable
#

Thank you, I just was going through them all looking for patterns, and those are what I noticed so far. During my digging still not sure what I would do to assign point values to things for trading them out for building. There is also one bleed ability in the pile that feels off under the troubadour I would have thought bleed would be higher cost than slow

young whale
#

....nope, doesn't seem so lol. 4/6/10, 5/8/11, 6/9/13....

#

actually maybe it's just the progression I got wrong

#

3/6/9
4/6/10
4/7/11
5/8/11

#

ok this is working

fresh fable
#

Nice

young whale
#

?/?/12
6/9/13

#

6/10/14

#

?/?/15
7/11/16

#

...I should probably make a spreadsheet

fresh fable
#

Agreed those are ideal for this

#

I have a cat on my lap preventing me from crunching numbers right now so just playing some video games right now

young whale
young whale
#

Ok so I filled out the abilities. There's a small section towards the top end where I needed to extrapolate, but I'm pretty confident it's correct

#

There is one ability though that seems to break the pattern: Resonant Mind Spike, an 11 cost Talent ability.

#

But it's also the highest damage ability that exists, so the pattern should be good for everything else.

fresh fable
#

danke

#

also I thought I should add that for people looking to make abilities, it is clear that setting up a circumstantial modifier allows you to add more power since it will not be able to be applied as consistently. IE phase inversion strike where they have to teleport the enemy to the opposite side and if they cannot they don't get any of the push has twice the push squares at each tier.

fresh fable
young whale
#

Notably though, it does mean that the train from a master project it’s just better to get a Null ability.

fresh fable
#

true, learning null moves can be great for a kit based character

#

also with this spread you have created I can start working on applying values to some of the effects on the signature level which will help me extrapolate higher level effects and importantly the point values allowed from different heroic resource tiers

#

3,5,7,9,11

young whale
#

Yup! That’s the idea

#

Though worth noting, it’s possible the base cost for damage doesn’t start at zero like I’m assuming on the sheet. But I don’t think that would change the math much, at least from a making abilities perspective

#

Having a budget of 8 and spending 3 is the same as having a budget of 9 and spending 4. You have 5 left over either way.

fresh fable
#

yep that logic is sound and we can only work with what we have

eternal grove
#

@fresh fable Can you share the modifiers you have figured out? I've tried to piece them together from the earlier posts in the thread, but they're a bit scattered, and don't indicate what each one means in terms of the cost you shared in your worksheet, nor how they correlate to general budget for an ability of a specific type.

From my understanding, there is variation in damage numbers based on AOE, multi targeting, type of conditions inflicted, etc.

Thanks for the thorough examination.

fresh fable
young whale
#

Guisarmier vs Rapid-Fire kits, "Forward Thrust, Backward Smash" is 2/5/7 to two targets, while Two Shot is 2/4/6

#

which implies that being a ranged attack is worth "1 point"?

#

Might be better to just keep them in seperate categories for now, can do the exact math later

ruby marlin
fresh fable
#

New note that I am not sure will hold up at higher level but did notice that tier 1 + tier 2 damage = tier 3 damage for signature attacks base damage

young whale
#

neat little coincidence though!

fresh fable
# young whale neat little coincidence though!

Yep, also this is why it is important to test against larger data sets. Speaking of I am currently writing out the break down of everything I think would impact cost and the damage cost of each signature ability splitting melee and ranged looking for patterns

young whale
fresh fable
#

Fair I can break this out further in signature I have a lot less data points so I need to expand to the full data set for those

young whale
#

wait yes

#

Halt, Miscreant is Melee 1, 2/5/7. While Ray of Agonizing Self Reflection/Hamstring shot are both 2/4/6

#

so I think we can confirm then that being ranged is worth a "point"

#

comparing to Hit and Run, we can also see that having an effect only on T3 is the same as Shift 1.

#

Stunning Blow (null) is both dazed and slowed, which could be a comparison point to the Tactician and Censor stuns.

#

Aha! Entropic Field is just an AoE slow, which is a good comparison point.

#

They Always Line Up is another AoE slow

#

Entropic Bolt's bonus effect is worth one "point"

#

Hoarfrost shows that the Talent's Strained effects are net neutral, since it's a 2/4/6 ability

#

Quick Rewrite is another AoE slow, with the "turn area to difficult terrain effect" edit: see below

fresh fable
#

True also an interesting one is witty banter and afflict bountiful decay, both have the same effect but one technically does less damage at its base. The core difference is one can be melee or ranged and gets 1 less point

young whale
#

...wait it restrains on T3. Not directly comparable.

fresh fable
young whale
#

WAIT wait! Net and Stab has the same thing, with a slow on T1/T2 and restrain on T3. It has 2/4/6 damage as a melee, so going up to restrain on T3 is worth one "point" as well!

fresh fable
#

Yes that makes sense

#

I will say I think typed damage is a point

young whale
#

I don't think so. Bifurcated Conflagration vs Two Shot

#

both use 2/4/6 damage spread

fresh fable
#

True but then I have meteoric introduction and viscous fire

#

Personally I am leaning towards type would not be a point since things have immunity and weakness to typed. So only if it gave the ability to work around things such as Ray of wrath and hurl element where you can change to a type of damage allowing targeting weakness or around immunity might be a point

#

With 1 creature / 1 creature of object
"I work better alone" and "teamwork has its place" have a close build with this effect but then I wonder if this is about feel or if it is a point balance and that I work better alone's bonus is viewed as more likely to happen

young whale
fresh fable
#

Oh crap I slipped that I don't know why I thought meteoric was ranged

young whale
#

Meteoric is 3/5/8, Push 2/3/4. Compares to Fury's Brutal Slam that is 3/6/9, Push 1/2/4. So going from a 1/2/4 push to a 2/3/4 push is one point as well.

fresh fable
#

Interesting I was thinking 2/3/4 as a standard

young whale
#

...huh Mountain kit I just noticed doesn't follow the pattern

#

it's got a damage of 3/5/9

#

but it's also a conditional damage equal to highest modifier

fresh fable
#

?

#

Hmm could be a typo

#

3/5/8 or 3/6/9

young whale
#

Warrior Priest also is off, 2/4/7

#

I think typo is probable

young whale
#

...ok, so I think I figured it out

#

Looking at the Null Ability Kinetic Strike

#

it has both a Slide 0/1/2, and a Taunted (EoT)

#

now the damage is 2/3/4, which is below the bar

#

but I know a Slide effect of 0/1/3 is worth X+1 points

#

and a taunted effect is also worth X+1 points

#

and I'm calculating that a 2/3/5 damage spread is 5 points.

#

I'm guessing that dropping down the T3 slide and T3 damage is worth about a point

#

meaning we have an ability of
5 + [X+1] + [X+1] -1 = 2X+6.

#

and a signature ability has a budget of X+10

#

Which would mean X = 4.

fresh fable
#

So basically we have a budget of 14

#

But that also makes it sound like most effects we add cost a min of 5

#

But cost less to grow

#

While adding multiple effects gets costly fast

young whale
#

yup

#

Huh, Hoarfrost is another rulebreaker

#

only slows EoT instead of (save ends)

#

but same damage as Hamstring and agonizing self reflection

fresh fable
#

I wonder if the EoT got past edits

#

Because I have been digging through and almost nothing is EoT in signatures except for taunted

#

But the taunted is no save

#

No potency

#

It just is

#

So if it was just you are slowed I think that would make sense or if it was save ends that would make sense to me

#

I think restrained upgrade in strained is balanced with we are slowed

#

Adding something at tier 3 was just 1 pt right?

young whale
#

depends on the thing

#

I'm making a big list of everything on the document

#

Also Cutting Sarcasm I knew was strong, but I think it might be OP lol

#

didn't realize it was a weapon ability

#

ranged troubadour time

fresh fable
#

I feel like that one should be EoT

#

It is the only that dishes out bleed and bleed feels strong

#

Also thank you sheets is much easier to work with

young whale
#

yeah

#

also not sure the range is correct for troubadour signatures

#

Cutting Sarcasm is weapon tagged with range 10, while Witty Baner isn't but is range 5.

fresh fable
#

Yeah I suspect many typos made it in from previous things and also from search replace

young whale
#

it seems like it's worth 1 point to add in the "spend 1 HR to heal an ally" on Witty Banter, comparing it to Afflict a Bountiful Decay

fresh fable
#

I have a thought that gain 1 surge is x with the second one balanced by they get a free strike on you for to the death

young whale
#

I think that's likely

fresh fable
#

Hmm that could make sense adding a spend hr feature may be 1 point for the versatility

#

Also I am going to say that I am having an interesting time with kinetic grip because 0 damage but all the modifiers

#

For instance could be broken out as x+4 for 3/5/7, x for slide 2 before, and 2 pts for the reach potentially would be 14

young whale
#

that kinda makes send to me.

#

I'd like to get some math for 3 costs and 5 costs done

#

...maybe even figure out the base cost for all levels of ability, if possible.

#

Theoretically it should be flatt increase of Y points per HR spent on the ability.

#

but maybe not!

fresh fable
#

Yeah I need to dive into that I also took a wak at what if out of 10 without an x base factor

#

So far going okay not too many that I felt puzzled with

#

But I will send you that when I am done. But otherwise I should be able to jump onto 3 costs soon

#

Also looking over the troubadour abilities in general with my base 10 I think troubadour might be built with 11 they all feel a little stronger

young whale
#

I'm reasonably sure that X=4

#

that feels about right

#

If you consider each point to be 2/3 of a damage, then an effect like +Attribute temporary stamina (which scales from 2-5) is worth 2.66 damage.

fresh fable
#

Yours makes sense, I just end up splitting a lot of effects into individual parts which gets harder math wise with a base of 4

young whale
#

could you give me some examples?

fresh fable
#

Spirit sword we have gain 1 surge + reach =x+1

#

Which actually isn't the best example as far as I can tell the first point of reach seems to be a minor add on

young whale
#

I think an extra point of reach is just +1.

#

which makes a surge be worth X, so 4.

fresh fable
#

Okay that makes some sense

#

I will redo some of my math

fresh fable
#

Hmm would the free strike replacements be naturally weaker than most signature abilities

#

Looking at base free strikes I would count 7 pts. But then again they have the benefit of being a free strike which has some value

#

But probably isn't worth 7

#

The replacements have that but a little extra perk like changing damage type

#

Heading home will post my analysis sheet when I get there

fresh fable
#

my analysis spreadsheet, currently mostly signature abilities

eternal grove
#

I noticed the math problem with kinetic grip. It might be worthwhile to consider rebasing the point values for damage, counting your current 5 cost damage as 1 cost damage and the. Having an ability that deals no damage like kinetic grip have a damage cost of -4?

#

It would change the overall budget you’re working with from 14 down to 10, but it would make kinetic grip balance more easily, and shouldn’t affect the other math if I’m thinking about it correctly.

fresh fable
#

that could work, also my math for the class signature abilities is now all in for the doc, I found that the troubadour has the weirdest swing where things either seem too powerful or too weak.

fresh fable
fresh fable
#

Right now taking a guess at the value increase of a heroic resource trying 3 per resource. Will see how things pan out math wise as I build with the same logic as the earlier ones but this would mean heroic 3 would have 23 points

fresh fable
#

Okay looking like 20 is the point value of my brain is working right

#

So right now 2pts per heroic resource will see if this works on 5 costs currently on the fury

fresh fable
#

Update hitting a few that don't math right when looked over like eviscerate which feels appropriately powerful but if I did the math right is running two short

#

Going to try and complete heroic 3 and then take a breather to focus back on my design for my on going campaign

fresh fable
#

I am pretty sure now that if something appears in tier 3 only apply a 2/3rds rounded down discount

young whale
#

hmm, let me take a look.

#

Ahh, yeah a bleeding effect

#

are you going off of Cutting Words as the base?

#

Because I think that ability is not following the math lol

fresh fable
#

Yeah bleeding feels wonky pt wise

#

And just a few in shadow and tactician come in under

young whale
#

Bleeding is definitely one of the stronger effects

fresh fable
#

If I follow the points I used previously

#

Deciding how much frightened is worth is another thing

#

Same with dazed which I placed at 8pts initially

young whale
#

Potency Slowed/Weakened is 7 points.

fresh fable
#

Yep I have kept that part

young whale
#

Cutting Sarcasm puts Bleed at 6, which is ludicrous

fresh fable
#

Yeah I initially put bleed at 8

#

With dazed

young whale
#

I think it's probably more than that?

fresh fable
#

But it might be more

#

As we get more high level it will probably become easier to estimate it's value

young whale
#

...another possibility that should be kept in mind, is that effects might change in price at different ability levels. Now I don't think that should be the case, but we can't get too attached to our math.

#

Hmm, Comparing Repent, Stunning Blow, and Concusive strike, they aren't quite lining up

#

Stunning Blow has dazed the "cheapest", but it also ties dazed and stunned into one effect I'm pretty sure, which could be why it's cheaper

#

easier to remove/save against.

#

But concussive Blow is 3/5/8 damage, while Repent is 3/6/9 (after -2, since non-weapon).

#

and both are ranged.

fresh fable
#

Yeah it gets funky

#

I hold onto that there may not be deliberate math behind this sometimes in design things are done with gut feeling and theme, and we are just lucky that experienced designers tend to keep things reasonably balanced with lots of playtesting to help

#

For stunning blow I did full cost for dazed assuming 8pts and slowed 7pts, with a 5pt damage it worked out

#

Concussive came out under powered

#

One thing I was assuming is that we are saving separately against dazed and slowed

#

I feel like concussive could have more damage given to it

#

Or perhaps adding an effect to a grouping of tiered is discounted as you mentioned and dazed should have a higher cost.

fresh fable
#

I really feel that hypnotic overtone should be 1/2/3 for side

#

Slide

#

If that was as above and dazed was 10 pts I think that would fix some of the past ones with I guess an assumption that combining both behind one potency is balanced by an extra 2 penalty

#

Also keeping an eye out for this but is there an instance of taunted that isn't save ends

#

Okay got all of my 3 heroic resource options in

young whale
fresh fable
#

Yes I mixed that up meant are there any that are save ends

#

Also updating my elemental knight and rune sage to match this style for abilities then might get started on 5 cost abilities

fresh fable
#

Okay finished my updates on my two taking a wack at heroic 5 now

fresh fable
#

Finished up the 5 point heroics

#

Going to refocus on my home brew classes for a bit but may come back to do the level 2 and 3 abilities but I probably shouldn't do above that until the license opens that up

tender pawn
#

How is this going?
I figured the MCDM team had an initial 'system' for determining how much damage a thing should do, or how many 'points' an ability is worth considering its riders. But then it goes through testing and the bumps/nerfs that it gets afterwards would throw all of the base math out of whack.

eternal grove
#

I've been following pretty closely (though I have yet to sift through the 5 point abilitiess). I'm impressed with how consistent @fresh fable's analysis has been and how well they've managed to pick apart the abilities into specific effects.

I've been working to compile everything into an "Ability Builder" based on the work done by @fresh fable but it's still a really early draft.

I re-based the damage values as well as all other values so that the total point value of a Signature Ability is around 5 points (with each point of Heroic Resource cost adding an additional 2 points).

My builder still doesn't exactly reproduce all of the abilities we see in either @fresh fable's analysis or the playtest document, but it does do a pretty good job on many of them. Some of that is likely due to inconsistencies between similar effects, incorrect values being assigned in my builder, etc.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1aLC576EcxuyFyZuy5x7um_JBbd0pKpdEDhntu8vLRjU/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs
Draw Steel Ability Points
fresh fable
# eternal grove I've been following pretty closely (though I have yet to sift through the 5 poin...

Thank you, it feels good to know it is noticed. For me @young whale has been a great deal of help, by cracking the initial x value for the features I was able to guestimate much more consistently. And currently run on the assumption that things keep costing about the same. I try to break things out as granularly as possible to make it easier for other people to crunch. I am hoping to make all kinds of cool things for the game as time goes forwards. A lot of what I am doing now is to build practice dissecting what we have to build more balanced and accurate designs of my own. Ie my rune sage and elemental knight (place holder name) got a few other things bouncing around in my head

young whale
fresh fable
#

for example it is very possible that a set damage cap of x is there IE 3/6/9 for some tier and then it just costs more to buy up than it would normally past that point. (the kind of stuff that existed in older point buys for D&D)

#

there is always going to be things that we won't know until we run across them, but as long as we keep doing our best to analyze and compare abilities we will start to get a clearer picture or we will find enough inconsistencies where we can get a focus on at least where the error is. Finally, it is fully possible that with different people making different classes that not everything was built on the same point scale or value scale

#

lots of factors that hopefully we will get lucky and see the curtain drawn back on in the patreon making of the sausage

#

but gosh darnit this has been fun

fresh fable
#

Got to my classes 2nd level features and realized I needed to verify the points remain the same so doing the 2nd level 5 point heroic abilities for all classes right now

young whale
#

Ok so did some math

#

Comparing concussive Blow and You talk too much

#

I think that there are 2.5 points per extra resource cost

#

so 5 point jump when you go up to the next ability tier.

fresh fable
#

Oh that is interesting, hmm that could explain a few things. So we may get 7 from 3pt then 12, 17, 22, and finally 27 to a max ability budget of 41 instead of 36 so a gain of 5 extra points

young whale
#

how were you getting 36?

#

Oh right the intial 14 cost that a Signature attack is

#

So you were counting it as 2 levels per HR.

#

huh so HR to a surge is actually a strong conversion

fresh fable
#

it appears so

#

I really am curious about the math they assigned to things behind the scenes. But I appear to need to take another run through my subclass with this concept some things might just cost a bit more, with this logic but other places might have room for something cool add on wise

young whale
#

I'd need to check through the high level abilities, try to find a straightforward strike+effect

cinder nova
#

Are you looking for 11 hr strikes specifically?

young whale
cinder nova
#

These 4 are the closest ones I can find, all strikes, 1 target, does something with damage weakness, 2 melee 1 and 2 ranged 10

image.png image.png image.png image.png
#

incase it helps, the simplest 11 hr ability I can find is solar flare, though it is an area ability, deluge is also similar

image.png image.png
young whale
#

Comparing Apostate and Primordial Bane, Losing all damage immunity and gaining weakness 10 to a specific damage type (save ends) is rated as 5 points more expensive then a universal damage weakness 10 that can't be saved or removed

#

That doesn't feel right at all.

fresh fable
#

Also if judged creature would be an additional limiter since 1 creature would be -1 pt. Not sure what I would minus for judged no more than 2 for certain

#

Just going to do some quick concepts so damage for primordial bane, 24pts on damage, -1 pt for just creature, has in theory 18pts left.
Or 13 if out of 36.
Pick an element 2pts
Remove immunity all:
Add vulnerability 10:
Save ends: -1pt
This feels weird gut wise for cost for the remaining effects part of me thinks
5 for remove weakness
And 10 for vulnerability 10. But I need to look at previous costs of vulnerability could argue for 12. In which case it would math out to 41.

#

Fire: 28pts on damage, 1 for ranged, I think I had dazed at 8?
Ignore damage immunity at 5. 42 pts

cinder nova
#

could it be that universal damage weakness and typed damage weakness have the same cost? Looking at Purifying Fire and Set Up as an example

IMG_1861.png IMG_1860.png
fresh fable
#

Word of weakening. 23pts damage, 1pt ranged, weakened 7pts, damage weakness 10, 15 pts because all. -1 for attached to save ends. 45pts maybe weakness all should be less or maybe attaching it to clearing another condition should have a bigger minus

young whale
young whale
#

I feel like -1 points for the save ends is WAY too weak

fresh fable
#

-1 for save ends worked at lower levels but honestly might not be as accurate

young whale
#

I think 7 cost is the first spot where "until EoE or dying" starts to appear if I remember correctly?

#

Though they also tend to be self buffs, which makes comparison difficult

ancient wren
#

Could it be that there is a base assumption of effect that changes by ability cost?

#

Like damage has

#

Where having no damage is not just 0 pts but a minus.

#

Maybe different HR costs have different effect durations by default, and going up or down changes the value

#

One other thing I've been wondering about that seems weird to me is that additional damage, conditions, and effects have a static cost regardless of the target count/area

#

Like increasing a cube 2 ability that only does damage to cube 4 costs the same as increasing a cube 2 with a ton of effects to a cube 4

fresh fable
#

True I was putting eoe or dying to 10pts previously I think

young whale
young whale
fresh fable
#

From my current work area effect like aura and burst grow by 2 points a square after the base 4. With the core effect having its own cost

young whale
#

Something I have noticed in play is that (assuming reasonable spacing for enemies) A cube generally hits about as many enemies as it's side length. Maybe an extra by Cube 6?

bright trellis
#

Thanks for making this!

shut compass
#

Hello! Did you guys have a chance to look at the game since it was released, to check if some values changed?

noble prism
#

This is something I am also curious about - homebrew is a passion and having an updated guide to stay as close to the source material would be very helpful

young whale
#

And higher level abilities are a bit more finicky to try and reverse engineer, because the ability budget doesn't scale linearly with HR cost

#

Compare Shadow Strike (5 cost, 2 sigs) vs Speed of Shadows (11 cost, 4 sigs+movement)

#

keeping it mind that it's an action, so you pay 5 for +1 sig, or pay 11 for +3 sigs.

#

So for the time being I (and most of the other homebrew folks) are just templating off of abilities similar to what we are making.

shut compass
#

Thanks so much for all the hard work

#

Quick question, the mountain kit has damage 3/5/9, which does not appear in the standard damage array. I understand there are exceptions, but can you guesstimate how frequent/rare these exceptions are?

young whale
shut compass
#

Ok thank you so much 🙏

#

Happy homebrewing

daring peak
#

Im sorry if this is mentioned in the sheets that @young whale and @eternal grove made but I honestly can't find anything related to the Strain effect on talents, does that affect the math in any way?

eternal grove
daring peak
eternal grove
young whale
# daring peak Im sorry if this is mentioned in the sheets that <@138069070816870401> and <@258...

The existence of strained effects does not change the core balancing of the ability (unlike Persist, which takes a lot out of the budget).

Signature abilities have a positive strained effect, while heroic abilities which are 5-cost or more expensive are directly negative. They may have some change in the style of the ability or other situational benefit to using them while strained, but it should be overall a downgrade.

daring peak
#

So there is some creativity in design, more than the average class ability at least