#Field Arsenal Alternate Rules (Times 4)

65 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

atomic yew
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So, I know I'm incredibly late to this discussion, but had a thought after building a potential conversion for a tactician character for one of my players.

With regards to Field Arsenal, to the extent it does feel like there might be a waste when features overlap, I tried to find a feature that splits the difference in terms of providing a benefit without making it too complicated.

The result was a short list of features in the vein of the caster prayer/blessing - with the stipulation that in order to qualify for one, you need 2 kits with matching stats.

The design principles are, if you pick kits that are suitably different, then those bonuses are baked in. However, if you choose kits that are very similar, you can focus on ONE stat of those kits to push them just a little bit farther.

Without further ado:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ci2xk9spPw_TwyRmEKs2RKuG5PZ4oyBg5icOGIFGCuA/edit?usp=sharing

Google Docs
Field Arsenal Alternative

Tactician The tactician gains the following feature at 1st level. Blended Technique Your training has granted you superior skill with even the simplest of weapons. You can choose one of the following techniques. You can change your technique along with it as a respite activity. Aegis Your ri...

daring salmon
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Interesting, I like it! Although for this to work I think you'd need to make the stamina bonus also only apply in the same way, as otherwise it's still optimal to take no-overlap kits and get an extra +3 stamina.

atomic yew
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Well, the thought was that the +3 Stamina bump was the catch all option of last resort. But I was 50/50 on it. I'd have to see if there is ever a combination where you don't have an option to take.

daring salmon
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I mean, there are atleast 4 builds I know off the top of my head with 0 overlap

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so since they don't overlap at all, then they can't be matching bonuses

atomic yew
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that's my thought. In those cases, is it worth it to NOT have a technique?

daring salmon
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Well, in every situation where there is an overlap, because you have to have invested atleast 1 point in both kit, then you are losing 1 point. Each technique here is worth 1 point. So it will never be better than two kits which don't overlap.

atomic yew
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Ah, its a little out of date, but seems like Sniper is the special offender 😉

daring salmon
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Even Rapid Fire is enough, as long as you pair it with a melee kit with no speed bonus

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or no wait that has like +3 stam or something

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yeah it's arcane archer with no stam bonus

atomic yew
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that...feels like an error. I know dual wielding also says +2 stamina, and I suspect that's supposed to be a 3

daring salmon
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Whirlwind is also an offender, because it has no stam bonus

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though I tend to do the "only 1 point overlap", comboing whirlwind with shining armor/mountain to have the ultimate melee beast

atomic yew
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Oh, no you're right. Sniper has no stamina.

daring salmon
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...though with Mountain nerfed, it'd just be shining armor now

atomic yew
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I also figure granting stamina for free is probably the cheapest because it doesn't scale with level, so the bonus is pretty negligable after a bit

daring salmon
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Which is it's own issue, but even if something is only broken at level 1, it's still broken at level 1

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and level 1 is where players are going to start

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if it's underpowered at higher levels, then they can always switch to a different technique on respite.

atomic yew
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True. I feel like it'd have to be tested to be sure. I have a hard time seeing 3 stamina breaking anything, but I'm open to being corrected on this front. Hard to tell when we dont' have the final final numbers either.

daring salmon
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I mean I don't think it would be broken

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but I'd still whip out my Shining Armor+Arcane Archer build and take the +3 stamina ontop of my base 12.

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Rather then mixing two other kits to get something else slightly higher.

atomic yew
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True. I've marked the text as 'questionable' and want to sit on it for a bit. Its all speculative still, but if that's the only major issue - I'd consider it a success overall.

daring salmon
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....actually, I think you can probably remove the "and they are equal" stipulation.

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Most stats have diminishing returns

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Damage is the only one where I think it might be better to keep it.

atomic yew
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I suppose that's where I might disagree, with respect. My thought was if the bonuses aren't equal, then there is a benefit to picking one or the other. Only when they are equal is sthere sort of a loss, and so that's where I wanted to focus the bonus.

gaunt cairn
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i think the distance bonus wanted to be +3

atomic yew
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I think with +3, then you could have 2 +5's that would be rapid fire kit. Is the idea that two +7's could equal 10?

daring salmon
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Yeah range I think would have to be +2?

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well it doesn't have to be, +3 would be fine

atomic yew
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Yep, that I updated - realized that +5 is probably too much if you had sniper/arcane archer. But I could probably go either way

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hair splitting to be sure

daring salmon
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At the point where you have sniper+arcane archer, you are spending 3 points on range for both, so you are "wasting" 3 points.

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getting +5 for 3 points isn't that much

atomic yew
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Ah, ok - fair point. I see what you mean

daring salmon
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it's if you have two +5 bonuses that it's an issue (say, Cloak and Dagger+Ranger) because then you are spending only 1 point, to get 3 points worth of range

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...however, in any of those cases you would neccesarily also be wasting points of ranged weapon damage, so you don't actually come out ahead.

atomic yew
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So, +5 actually isn't that bad then. Trying to think if a Ranged 25 attack is categorically too strong for anything?

daring salmon
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If you could get multiple techniques, it would be an issue (which actually sounds like it would be cool to have at higher levels potentially)

daring salmon
atomic yew
daring salmon
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Casters got all the ranges buffed up to 10 because they removed kits.

atomic yew
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Ah! Ok. Then yeah +20 makes perfect sense. That has parity with a void elementalist with distance bonus

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+5 it is!

daring salmon
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What do you think of the idea of unlocking the ability to use multiple techniques at higher levels?

atomic yew
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I'm for it. Until I see 10 levels of tactician, I'm not sure where to put it

daring salmon
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well, figure out about how many should be the maximum. Then divide across levels

atomic yew
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well, if conduit can have 3 at 10 levels, then I suspect 2 at 5th level? or 6th. Whichever has more space

daring salmon
atomic yew
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correct.

daring salmon
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Hmm, interesting way to handle the range bonus: half the lower bonus. So if you have two +5s, you get a +2, but if you have two +10s, you get a +5.

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Might be a bit too complicated for your tastes though.

atomic yew
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Yeah, might be working mathematically, but seems like more words than its needed sadly 😕

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Ironically, one of the issues is that comes up with range is sniper kit is hard to use with Mark as a tactician

fleet compass
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I like this approach, it feels like it has the same goal as mine, but a bit less volatile balance-wise, since you have to pick one of the bonus options ^^

atomic yew
daring salmon
fleet compass