New Kits (8); Crusher, Dervish, Arbalest, Testudo, Siren, Swarm, Devoted, Dragonheart

[jaunty estuary]

love crusher, have to go but will read the others in a sec

btw to give it some scaling you could maek the crusher use ur might or agility

(on the extra damage)

i like steel wind alot

[unique bramble]

oh, that's a good idea on the ability add

[jaunty estuary]

is it intended that shield wall protects others but not yourself btw

it works well either way i think but just wanted to check

since there ahve been a few instances where people sasumed ally includes self

[unique bramble]

Yes - as i imagine you'd swing your shield out to aid them in that moment

[jaunty estuary]

fairs fairs, very nice. i can imagine alot of synergy with this and a frontliner tactician tryna keep the shadow alive or something

[unique bramble]

yeah, I'd be curious if I added self if it would make the ability to powerful? maybe do that, but remove the push?

[jaunty estuary]

the one thing with push is like

realistically the most common situation is where ur protecting an ally from a single enemy threatening both of you

and so in a sense is pushing them away conflicting with protecting ur allies, when you probably just pushed away the thing you are protecting them from? its not fully conflicting, they'll just move back, but i would probably say include self and remove push

[unique bramble]

that may be - I sort of had the image of the classic roman testudo formation, where you have your big shield, and slowly advance on a target, but hypothetically, you could still use your maneuver for the knockback

actually yeah, that makes better sense, talked myself into it 😛 (editing now)

I had also debated maybe adding Reach: +1 to testudo though - for light spear?

ok, @jaunty estuary thanks for the tips. I'm out for awhile

[molten tulip]

Dervish sounds really cool!

[unique bramble]

Update: Added 2 Caster Kits! (2 more to follow)

[jaunty estuary]

you've 7 point budgetted the siren and then given them a net positive ward which is a no no

wards are worth points. most are worth 3 or 4

there is currently one 0 point ward

in the form of the bloodpact ward

and even at that i reckon thats at least a 4 point ward its quite strong

idk tho

might be wrong about that

i like the ideas tho

symbiotic swarm is probably 2 points ish but could be 3, im not as experienced with ward balance

and for envelope did you nerf the T3 result by 1 point of damage because the strength of the effect or?

i would argue that is unecessary

"lightning spark" gives a pretty similar (slightly broader actually) buff

and uses the standard 2 6 9

so you could afford to use the 2 6 9 chassis as well

thus 3 7 10

[unique bramble]

I figured I might be off on balance. I'll drop the speed bonus probably

[jaunty estuary]

i'd call it a 3 or 4 point ward so you might want to drop a decent bit, not sure tho

tamwin will have a better idea of it

[hoary stream]

Alas, I was too late getting my own kit post up. I have an Arbalest class too that is virtually identical to yours, and a Sword and Board similar to the Testudo.

Siren Class says it uses Crystal, but then is equipped with an implement of wood

and the Siren ward is very strong, I don't think you can put an edge on presence (or any) tests on a ward

Currently, no kit has any real out of combat use

(which I do kinda want to change, and have some ideas for, but that's a seperate thing)

the bane on enemy attacks is quite strong, and I think is the main "meat" of the ward

[jaunty estuary]

unless you count an edge on resistance rolls

[hoary stream]

...huh, I guess sorta?

[jaunty estuary]

jsut since its used for traps and whatnot ig

[hoary stream]

I guess they do come up as traps or weather effects on occaison

[jaunty estuary]

just a thought, its obv still mainly combat

[hoary stream]

but still, it's much more limited then every test invovling an attribute.

For that half of the ward, I think it could be giving you and your allies an edge on presence resistance rolls.

maybe also another type? Intiution, maybe?

and I think that's worth about 3 points.

another typo, missing the blue/bold on the P here

[jaunty estuary]

i am so hoping there is a way we can do like budget draw steel book formatting for homebrew when we get the final product

[hoary stream]

and same feedback on alertness tests, that probably should be something else. Maybe lets you ignore line of effect within 3 if your insects can reach them?

[hoary stream]

Yeah, hoping someone makes a tool. But considering that MCDM hasn't even finalized the formatting yet, it'll be a while.

[unique bramble]

To be fair, I think there is still a fair bit of low hanging fruit in terms of certain archetypes that a lot of people imagine, and its down to chance which ones we get written up first.

[unique bramble]

I was curious, I might just leave it at resistance rolls, but I would be curious if it is something that we could do - the archetype of the enchanting singer is very strong, and it seems like a good way to express it; maybe it could be limited to certain skills however (like perform).

[unique bramble]

yeah, I also contemplated maybe making it a 'taunt' which would make the siren a target; but could be contextually useful

[unique bramble]

Ooh, that's a good idea - ignoring cover would be a good way to represent a swarm!

[hoary stream]

Generally Casters don't want to be attacked, so I don't think a self Taunt is what you want. I could see the ability to taunt an ally work though.

[unique bramble]

Yeah, I sort of imagined. Its sort of a shame we don't have the 'charmed' condition, as it feels closest to what I want.

Ok, so new plan - changed to allowing 'aid attack' maneuver at range - I can see that as just being distracting enough to give your allies an opening, which actually pairs well with the slide

[hoary stream]

I do think it'd be pretty easy to add Charmed as an alternate to taunt: double bane on any attack which includes you

it's not that you can't attack them, but it just hurts you inside to do it.

[unique bramble]

yeah, maybe - I know there is some general distaste from MCDM broadly though to not have enchantment as a general theme, but I might revisit.

[hoary stream]

A big part of it is using charm effects as mind control, and the removal of agency.

That's why I think a double bane works and is in keeping with the philosophy

[jaunty estuary]

i mean its not like mind control and possession isn't a key thing in lots basically all the high fantasy and epic fantasy touch stones (lord of the rings, wheel of time) but i get why from a player agency perspective its a bit weak

but if it just presents itself as a debuff

[jaunty estuary]

yeah exactly

[hoary stream]

"you can't do this thing" = bad, unfun
"you must push through adversity to do this thing" = cool, heroic

[jaunty estuary]

true

boromir just had a double bane on doing the right thing

[hoary stream]

😔

[jaunty estuary]

but in the end he rolled a crit

or something idk

[unique bramble]

Ok, so - which is better do we think - double bane on attacking the siren, or ranged aid attack manuever?

I can go either way to honest, but I'll solicity input @hoary stream @jaunty estuary (since you're here) 😉

[hoary stream]

Personally I never use aid attack so I'm the wrong person to advocate for that

¯_(ツ)_/¯

But a lot of people seem to like it

I think single bane on enemy attacks within 2, and the aid attack at range make sense

[jaunty estuary]

what maneuvers dyou tend to be using instead?

[hoary stream]

Knockback, grab, or the class maneuver

grabs are currently the strongest "taunt" mechanic in game.

[unique bramble]

Ok, but no edge on presence resistance rolls then?

[jaunty estuary]

"taunt" lmao

a true hard aggro mechanic

oh you wanna attaack the wizard? why break out, you can just stab me a bit more budy

[hoary stream]

yup, grabbing someone is better than taunting them

[jaunty estuary]

is that something you are feedbacking as a flaw?

you would think that taunt should be the best taunt

[hoary stream]

oh hmm. I think you pick one between the resistance rolls and the ranged aid. I do like the bane on enemies within 2 as the main effect, it's pretty standard but also a currently unused niche.

[hoary stream]

Yes, i do think it's currently too hard to be a sticky frontliner.

[unique bramble]

Ok, I think bane on enemies, and ranged aid attack. I'll drop the resistance roll, at least until I have a better idea of how common that is. I'll limit the aura though to enemies that START their turn, so that mitigates the effect SOMEWHAT

[hoary stream]

I think it's fine as all enemies within 2, but it's your call.

[unique bramble]

Ok, added the other final 2. I wonder if I should repost with all 8 now 🤔

New Kits (8); 4 Martial & 4 Caster

[hoary stream]

Probably not? Unsure

[unique bramble]

I was able to rename 😄

[hoary stream]

For Castigation, I kinda want that to trigger off any damage weakness?

[unique bramble]

I mean, the idea was that its effective against undead, demons, devils - which I 'presume' will have holy weakness?

[hoary stream]

Yup, but undead seem to only have fire weakness

and I think it would make sense to be able to Castigate an elemental

I lean against design that is particularly good in one niche, and weaker elsewhere. It's a combination of being over and underpowered, not balanced.

[unique bramble]

Oh really? I haven't seen undead yet, so I don't know - was presuming to be fair

[hoary stream]

reveanants

for the Dragonheart, I'd phrase it as "You have dammage immunity [...]. You can change the type of this immunity during a respite."

that's mostly for flavor reasons, it's not like the dragonscales are a ritual you need to perform

[unique bramble]

mhm, yeah that's good call

[hoary stream]

but both of those feel good to me!

oh, you need to specify the line distance

line 4? line 5?

[unique bramble]

oh, whoops. Was supposed to be 3. but is 4 to low? Its damage is balanced for 2 enenimes on average, rather than the cube

[hoary stream]

If it's a two hit, then line 3 is probably fine

[balmy hare]

Oh man the Crusher kit is like my favorite type of character. I still look back fondly on the reaping mauler I played in 3.5e.

Very cool designs!

[unique bramble]

Most welcome 🙂

[still seal]

Dervish looks awesome!

[unique bramble]

New Kits (8); Crusher, Dervish, Arbalest, Testudo, Siren, Swarm, Devoted, Dragonheart

[jaunty estuary]

these are all very nice, why don't you perchance format them to be used with the google sheet

i can do them up if you want

well maybe not all 8 all at once