This looks like it would be very fun in a game set in Capital, absolutely built for intrigue
#New Occult Detective Subclass! The Detective Class for Draw Steel!
queen ice
graceful fractal
That was the hope, although I also hope ultimately the final product isn't too setting specific.
it would be incredible in an urban campaign with lots of characters and mysteries, but you could probably use it in a more traditional (heroic) fantasy game and get good use out of it.
light fulcrum
ooh, I like the secondary characteristic behing determined by subclass
graceful fractal
thanks. I've been sitting on that idea for about 8 months 
dapper quiver
Modus operandi is a good name. Pathfinder 2e says "methodology."
graceful fractal
I heard a lot about the Pathfinder 2e Investigator(?) class
queen ice
I love the names of things, Acumen especially sold me immediately on the concept
graceful fractal
but I didn't want to scrutinize it too closely; I didn't want to just make this a port of their class
graceful fractal
I love the names of things, Acumen especially sold me immediately on the concept
after insight was taken I had to get creative lol
but acumen was perfect:
the ability to make good judgments and quick decisions, typically in a particular domain.
light fulcrum
Considering you already have a Triggered Action for the class, I think the subclass Triggered Actiosn might be better as Maneuvers?
graceful fractal
I thought about it. And I'm not against changing it in the future!
But right now, I'm happy with this approach
and it's untested! better to try it before I change or scrap it
light fulcrum
The other thing that jumps out to me is that the Phantom has no simple way to enter stealth in combat if they are spotted. On some maps it will be either impossible to break line of sight, or requiring enough movement to not be worth it.
graceful fractal
you're saying they might struggle without cover or concealment?
light fulcrum
Even if there is loads of cover and concealment on the map
You can't hide while observed, even with both.
The Shadow subclasses have the ability to hide even when observed (on black ash teleport, or with the smoke bomb trait)
graceful fractal
that's a fair point, but I didn't want to just duplicate the shadow playstyle here
they have the ability to keep themselves hidden when they strike, all while remaining mobile
but maybe you're right. Testing!
light fulcrum
Completely reasonable! But the subclass feels like it's reliant on stealth, with no way to get there.
graceful fractal
I do wonder how often players may be able to make their own cover or concealment
even if that needs the help of another hero
graceful fractal
correct
light fulcrum
I thought it only worked while hidden
graceful fractal
nope
so you could actually use it to go from cover/concealment, but not hidden, to hidden, if you were wise with your movement and the terrain
light fulcrum
yup!
graceful fractal
I thought about this stuff at least a little bit 😉
but I'm glad you're giving it such a thorough once over!
light fulcrum
I think the big thing that threw me off was the wording of the ability being "remain hidden"
graceful fractal
true. I could change that too "become hidden"
light fulcrum
changing that to something like "remain or become hidden" would help
For the signatures, are they all going to be Intuition based?
graceful fractal
that's the idea
for the class ones at least
the subclass ones will likely use their specific stat
but most classes rn don't get subclass specific heroic abilities until lv 2 or 3
so all the lv 1 abilities are going to be intuition
light fulcrum
I could also see a split, where you have 2/3 abilities as "Might or Agility" and then another 2/3 as "Presence or Reason"
similar to how Shadow has some melee, some ranged abilities.
graceful fractal
not a bad idea. There will 100% be a mix of melee and ranged options
The Hound and Charmer want to probably get up there in the fray, but the Genius and Phantom likely want to hang back, at least some of the time
I have some ideas for the signature and heroic abilities, but I'm gonna brainstorm more of them tomorrow and start drafting them out
sturdy falcon
I like the class alot! I am working on my own home brew class, and I love to see the effort you put into this class. How you build resources is very unique, something I am trying to iron out. And I love the core theme and mechanics of the class. Great work!!
graceful fractal
Big progress update! I've now finished drafting the signature abilities and the 3 cost heroic abilities!
Gonna work on the 5 cost abilities later today, but I have other things to do. Alas!
graceful fractal
alrighty! All the lv 1 abilities are done!
I'm sure there are syntax issues or other small mistakes here and there, but the conceptualizing for lv 1 is complete! 🕵️
light fulcrum
nice!
graceful fractal
First Draft Now Completed! The Detective Class for Draw Steel!
graceful fractal
I did want to make a class with abundant skills that wasn't necessarily a Shadow or Troubadour
warm sparrow
I like that "Check, Your Move" is sort of an inverse of "Hesitation is Weakness"
And while the Detective has two Triggered Actions, it can make one of them a Free Triggered Action for some Acumen. That's cool design.
I feel like Sting Operation should be a Resistance Roll for the enemies
graceful fractal
perhaps, but as of the current version, enemies never make resistance rolls
warm sparrow
Really? Hm. I hadn't noticed but you're right they dont
graceful fractal
only director creatures have abilities that ask for resistance rolls, and only player heroes have abilities with an End of Encounter (EoE) duration
if that changes in a future version? I'd be open to making the adjustements here.
warm sparrow
Huh! Yeah.
crimson hound
Was not expecting a Detective of archetypes, but this certainly seems interesting. No notes at this time, but wonder how it will compare to the Trobadour and Shadow, as you mention. I like the inspirations though
light fulcrum
In regards to Check: Your move, I'm not sure it needs to cost Acumen? Hesitation is Weakness does, but that's because it is a Free Triggered Action.
graceful fractal
I was concerned that it may be too powerful otherwise, but maybe not!
I'll consider adjustment(s)
light fulcrum
It might be! I'm not sure how forcing an enemy to go last compares to letting a hero go early, but at first brush they feel similar enough
Fresh Perspective being a burst 1 feels small, especially with it doing no direct damage.
I feel like Turnabout is fair play should also cleanse the condition from yourself
Thought Organization feel very weak to me
The surprise from Two steps ahead should probably be until the end of the round, since that's how Surprise usually works (and how it worked when the Tactician ability inflicted it)
graceful fractal
Ic ic. I don't agree with all of these, but I appreciate the feedback! I'll give it all a review tomorrow.
inner minnow
Hey! Do you remember that chart from the Patreon showing the strengths and weaknesses of the classes? How would you fill that out for the Detective?
graceful fractal
I actually already did! I just didn't share it here.
Let me look through my notes.
graceful fractal
sorry for the delay, but I sorted the class by the following categories (with adjustments made for specific subclasses!):
DPS: Low
Mobility: High (Phantom: Very High?)
Healing: Low (Charmer: Medium?)
Stamina: Medium (Hound: High)
Stickiness: High
Commander: Low (Genius: Medium)
Buffs: Low (Charmer: Medium?)
Debuffs: High
Control: Low
These aren't science; moreso guiding principles
torn field
just wanted to say I love the idea of "Check. Your Move." – really evocative for me
graceful fractal
thanks. I got the idea from studying chess actually haha
often you have a move you would want to make, but then your opponent puts you in check, so now you have to move or protect this clown 👑
And I wanted the ability to capture that feeling
graceful fractal
I feel like Turnabout is fair play should also cleanse the condition from yourse...
made some adjustments!
the only one I still feel strongly against is Turnabout is Fair Play, but that's because I think retaining the condition (while spreading it to the targets) is part of the narrative/fantasy of the ability
and the class has other options if they want to end conditions on themselves
I do think it could use a buff, so right now, I've decided to try letting it target 3 creatures (up from 2), but I'm interesting in further impressions/feedback
it's worth noting that the primary goal of the ability is moreso about spreading effects on targets than it is doing damage, but it also gives detective players an option if they want a stronger attack that targets multiple creatures (without stepping too much on the toes of higher damage classes)
graceful fractal
New Occult Detective Subclass! The Detective Class for Draw Steel!
After several days of hard word and some playtesting from my gaming group, version 0.5 is here! There have been major reworks to most of the class and subclass abilities, too many to list here! The biggest change however is the addition of the new 5th subclass, The Occultist, inspired by occult detectives from both classic and modern literature!
I'm still soliciting feedback, and I would love if interested parties would take a look at this newest version! 
inner minnow
Oooo that's a cool direction for the Detective archetype.
inner minnow
Okay now I've actually had a chance to read it. I like it a lot! A few of the abilities seem a bit niche, but nothing seems overly weak or powerful on my first read. My first impression is that it's interesting and unique.
My one critique I would give is for Thought Organization. I don't think I've seen more than 2 conditions on a player character before, so the higher tier results will often be "wasted" IMO. That might just be down to director styles though. Maybe you're seeing a lot more conditions than I am.
My favorite move is definitely Two Steps Ahead.
graceful fractal
I 100% have Thought Organization in my sights as an ability that needs more testing. But also, we don't know what higher level Draw Steel looks like! But I appreciate the feedback
light fulcrum
Imminent Breakthrough can probably be a free maneuver. Compared to Brute Precision, you are giving up the 1d6 damage for the ability to give it to an ally.
graceful fractal
my concern with making it a free maneuver was the possibility that it could be used multiple times per turn. Although I suppose that if a hero has 10+ heroic resource, they already are expected to be super powerful. I'll keep it how it is now for the time being, but add it to my feedback/suggestions list!
fiery oar
Hey! I've been playing this class in a draw steel campaign for a few months now and have been really loving it! Any idea how the class is gonna change now that the latest packet has released? Really looking forward to seeing the next version!