so i have just finished with raylib to get me used to c++ graphics programming so what should i advance to now? I have also been thinking of using OpenGL
#what framework should i use
trail pine
coral archBOT
covert sparrow
opengl for sure
its kinda janky but its much simpler to work with than like
vulkan
vulkan is if you desire pain and want to spent 8 months on a simpler raster engine
regal flame
I would argue against using OpenGL. It's a really poorly designed API and doesn't really teach you how the GPU works
regal flame
vulkan is if you desire pain and want to spent 8 months on a simpler raster engi...
People really just parrot this without using anything past Vulkan 1.0
Vulkan 1.3+ is perfectly fine. You can get a textured cube up in a weekend
covert sparrow
<- has spent 8 months making a raster engine
polar pollen
vulkan is if you desire pain and want to spent 8 months on a simpler raster engi...
8 MONTHS?????
covert sparrow
ok thats not really fair
regal flame
Okay? I've spent plenty of time working on raster and ray tracing and 99% of my effort is not in Vulkan
covert sparrow
i guess my point is that vulkan is many times more complicated than opengl
BUT
as with everything, it depends on ur goals
polar pollen
i guess my point is that vulkan is many times more complicated than opengl
the logic flow is much better, it's only the huge number of options per configurable structure that is difficult to understand (takes a lot of trial and error), and also descriptor sets suck
covert sparrow
if you want to learn really nitty gritty gpu stuff then vulkan is ur bestie
if you dont then honestly stick with raylib theres nothing wrong with it
regal flame
Also, OpenGL and Vulkan aren't frameworks. They're APIs to low level GPU functions
trail pine
ok
regal flame
the logic flow is much better, it's only the huge number of options per configur...
1.3+ makes it a lot nicer (bindless, BDA, descriptor buffers, etc)
trail pine
i'll watch a few vulkan tutorials to see what it's like
covert sparrow
no read something like howtovulkan
polar pollen
1.3+ makes it a lot nicer (bindless, BDA, descriptor buffers, etc)
yes I followed sacha williams' howtovulkan 2026 and it felt very different from vulkan-tutorial's legacy procedure
trail pine
k
covert sparrow
if all youve done is raylib vulkan will be a massive step up
trail pine
ive done raylib and sdl
covert sparrow
I went from sfml to opengl to vulkan
polar pollen
i'll watch a few vulkan tutorials to see what it's like
this is my personal opinion, but have you heard of SDLGPU?
trail pine
i really dont like sdl though
trail pine
this is my personal opinion, but have you heard of SDLGPU?
is that just regular sdl or a different thing
regal flame
SDLGPU or WebGPU are better stepping stones than OpenGL is these days
regal flame
is that just regular sdl or a different thing
it's part of SDL3
covert sparrow
opengl is not perfect but it did help me as a atepping stone and learnopengl was a great resource
trail pine
i hate sdl keywords like its so different from all the other ones
covert sparrow
but dragons probably right theres better options
regal flame
LearnOpenGL is wrong about quite a bit, unfortunately
covert sparrow
i cant personally say
trail pine
i already know a bit of opengl like i made this (gimme a sec to forward it)
trail pine
nvm i cant forward it here
polar pollen
is that just regular sdl or a different thing
it is a nice abstraction that very nicely teaches you the general logic flow of all modern APIs. I used it when I struggled to understand pretty much anything about vulkan, as I couldn't see the bigger picture. SDLGPU will show you the bigger picture, albeit in a simpler form that is very useful still
covert sparrow
having gone down this route I cant say I highly recommend it
covert sparrow
learning vulkan is only for those who desire pain
polar pollen
I can send you the SDLGPU tutorial I followed to get me started
trail pine
ok
polar pollen
here you go
why does the link look so fishy
either way, it shows you how to use uniforms, upload your own vertex buffers and get the general logic loop going
trail pine
thx
covert sparrow
have you used glsl
certainly right
I was dumb and stuck with glsl when I moved away from opengl and I wish I switched to hlsl sooner
glsl is like opengl just kinda antiquated
polar pollen
Especially the PBR stuff
is there a good PBR source you can send?
covert sparrow
you can also look into slang but I think thats much less used and I havent played with it
regal flame
is there a good PBR source you can send?
Do you care if it's for a specific API or not?
polar pollen
Do you care if it's for a specific API or not?
nope, I can convert it as long as I can understand the logic
polar pollen
that picture is a render?
regal flame
looks like it
polar pollen
thank you
regal flame
np
trail pine
have you used glsl
Glsl easy dawg
regal flame
Glsl easy dawg
GLSL is "easy" when your shaders are trivial. It doesn't really scale to complex shaders too well, ime
It basically forces you to use globals for a lot of stuff
(i.e. you can't pass around buffers, images, etc)
trail pine
WhT would you need complex shades 4 just have a class for drawing stuff and pass it there
regal flame
A full-blown PBR pipeline isn't trivial, especially when you start doing IBL and some fancier bindless techniques for descriptor management
Languages like HLSL and Slang are easier to modularize out of the box
covert sparrow
WhT would you need complex shades 4 just have a class for drawing stuff and pass...
what would you need complex shaders for? r u joking?
trail pine
what would you need complex shaders for? r u joking?
i dont pass most my stuff in the shader
i pass it into my game class which then does most the hard lifting
covert sparrow
i mean if ur doing a 2D game u probably dont need super complex shading
but then why are you trying to go deeper into GP with that
polar pollen
i dont pass most my stuff in the shader
I am curious, can you elaborate?
what do you mean by game class doing the hard lifting?
trail pine
Only things I pass in the shader is color(obv) a mat4 for view, a mat4 for projection, a model mat4, color, texcoords, obviously vertices and then transparency
covert sparrow
if ur interested in learning GP ur probably going to want to write complex shaders
if ur goal is a game id say dont fix what aint broke
theres also more to shaders than passing stuff in
polar pollen
Only things I pass in the shader is color(obv) a mat4 for view, a mat4 for proje...
this is just the bare minimum for 3D and you're missing the normals and normal matrix too
and optionally tangets and bitangents, though you could calculate those in the fragment/pixel shader
trail pine
I usually do 2d that's what I do for 2d but when I do 3d I add more
polar pollen
you need projection for 2D?
covert sparrow
shaders also include, yk, shading
which can be very simple and very complex
so the answer to "why would I need complex shaders" is "when you want complex shading"
the choice of using hlsl is not just about complexity either its just a better tool for the job if ur not using opengl
regal flame
Quick example: I'm currently working on implementing the OpenPBR specification, and I would not want to do this in GLSL 😅
trail pine
you need projection for 2D?
you do with asperite and certain texture makers or it wont show up properly
covert sparrow
???
regal flame
Yeah, there's some use for orthographic projections in 2D