#Debian installation in a VM

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

tender phoenix
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Neither the GUI install nor the normal install look like that for me

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Debian installation in a VM

unreal anvil
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gotcha

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strange

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did you see the fiel i used?

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file

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I can delete the entire VM and create a new one?

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idk if that's going to solve anything tho

tender phoenix
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Yes. I tested with 12.0. No need to delete.

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Just select GUI install.

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Hold on, I'm gonna grab that iso.

unreal anvil
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alright

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wdym select GUI install?

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where can I select that?

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Graphical Install

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What did you select?

unreal anvil
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I did not see that menu

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I'm installing in VM

tender phoenix
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That is a picture if my VM.

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What do you see if you boot the iso?

unreal anvil
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oh

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how can I check that?

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I only have the .iso, no tool to open it

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on the device I'm typing from now

tender phoenix
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No I mean what dio you see in the Console of the VM if you boot off of the iso.

unreal anvil
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how do I boot off of the iso?

tender phoenix
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Go to Options and select the boot order to use the DVD foist or spam ESC during boot.

unreal anvil
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alright

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rbeooting now

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I think my order was off

tender phoenix
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But like I said earlier, you can simply go to youtube and enter proxmox debian.

unreal anvil
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I see..

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I'm getting the hang of it, bit by bit...

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thank you for being so patient

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its still rebooting

tender phoenix
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I'm not that patient today 😄

unreal anvil
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it didnt reboot

tender phoenix
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Try Stop.

unreal anvil
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shutting it down now

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how do you write like that?

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'stop'

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
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wtf

tender phoenix
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Hmm.

unreal anvil
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cant turn it off? lol

tender phoenix
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Double click the task to get more info.

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Is another task still running?

unreal anvil
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no

tender phoenix
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You can try entering this in node > Shell: rm /var/lock/qemu-server/lock-100.conf and see if that fixes it.

unreal anvil
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how do I get in Node > Shell?

tender phoenix
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Left side. Datacenter > your node > Shell

unreal anvil
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did nothing

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should i reboot the entire device?

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like proxmox database reboot?

tender phoenix
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Does stop still not work?

unreal anvil
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checking

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it owrked

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worked

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its off

tender phoenix
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Read again what I wrote 🙂 I never said that command was the only thing.

unreal anvil
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okay so now I boot it again?

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and it should run debian

tender phoenix
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it should start the installer.

unreal anvil
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yes it has

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woohoo

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should I put max on it?

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I already allocated 100gb to the VM

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so it should give 100gb to Debian yes?

tender phoenix
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Sure, why not.

unreal anvil
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okay

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does this look good to you?

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I'm still learning brick by brick, so sorry to ask stupid stuff

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but I learned a shitload today

tender phoenix
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I recommend you visit the proxcord discord though. Reason being that there#s other people than can chime in so I don't have to answer everything 😄

unreal anvil
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haha most definitely bud!

tender phoenix
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Yes that's fine.

unreal anvil
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good point!!

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you're a hero tho

tender phoenix
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You can always give VMs more storage later but shrinking storage is harder or impossible in some cases.

unreal anvil
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one last question from me

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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It also makes backups take longer.

unreal anvil
unreal anvil
tender phoenix
unreal anvil
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nice

tender phoenix
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It's basically a confirm option.

unreal anvil
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ok time to follow the official Docker guide on how to install it on debian 12

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
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superb

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thanks!!

tender phoenix
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Just be aware that few people can help you with portainer due to how it works. Better stick to compose files.

unreal anvil
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Should I just leave it on US here?

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Eventhough I live in europe

unreal anvil
unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Use something close to you.

unreal anvil
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gotcha

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The Netherlands that is

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does it matter which mirror I pick?

tender phoenix
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I stick to english with all but my package mirror and the keyboard layout.

unreal anvil
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then I should pick UK

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instead of Netherlands

tender phoenix
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I use xx.debian*.

unreal anvil
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so the first one should be fine? i selected The Netherlands

tender phoenix
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Yeah that's fine. deb.debian.org actually "links" you to the nearest.

unreal anvil
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perfect, checking now, thanks!

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http proxy..

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none?

tender phoenix
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Correct.

unreal anvil
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what to select here?

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I must be annoying you a shitfuck

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I'm so sorry

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but I'm really learning SO, SO much lol

tender phoenix
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Deselect all but SSH and standard utilities

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You don't want a GUI on your server.

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Use space to deselect.

unreal anvil
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👍

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these questions man

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when do they stoppppp

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xD

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what to do here?

tender phoenix
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Yes.

unreal anvil
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2nd option I think?

tender phoenix
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Correct.

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Linux names drives like this.

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Once the install is done make sure to create a snapshot and create more after certain milestones. You're bound to break something sooner or later. Just don't keep too many or let them get too old.

unreal anvil
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True..

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you're right!

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Will do after its done!

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Installation is complete, nice!

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Ow..

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I need to change my boot order again

tender phoenix
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No, just remove the iso from the drive.

unreal anvil
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rebooting now with the changes

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oh..

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already done what I said haha

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so that's how I should visualize things, just as if I have a physical PC on my desk..

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but it's virtual

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a VM...

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sure.

tender phoenix
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Yep. Mostly.

unreal anvil
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nice

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so same issue now

tender phoenix
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Which issue?

unreal anvil
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error

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while trying to reboot

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ah but stop works

tender phoenix
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Did you enable guest agent or something?

unreal anvil
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ok

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Can you show me the hardware and options tabs?

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Remember that reboot must be handled by something. If you're in the boot manager for example nothing will listen.

unreal anvil
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alright Debian is installed correctly now

unreal anvil
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so now I just leave it like this? :

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or I login and proceed with docker

tender phoenix
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Looks okay. Icd suggest double clocking the HDD and enabling discard and SSD even if it's not.

unreal anvil
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no clue how to do either

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ill look into that tomorrow

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want to get docker on before I hit the bed 😛

tender phoenix
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Double click on the disk in the hardware tab.

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Grab a SSH client like putty and connect to the ip of the VM.

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Yeah.

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User is root.

unreal anvil
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no clue how to double clock hdd tho

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cant see any option

tender phoenix
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Or select it and click edit at the top.

unreal anvil
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dont see any double clocking option

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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I meant double left click on the item. It does the same as using the edit button.

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You might be windering how to know the VM's ip?

unreal anvil
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yup! haha

unreal anvil
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oh double CLICK

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LOL

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ohh it's getting late here, so sorry

tender phoenix
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You can try to use its hostname you set during install rather than the ip. You can check your router's DHCP table, or you can use the console to log in and check with ip a or hostname -i for the ip.

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If you enable and install the guest agent you can see the ip on the summary too.

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You should install this any way for proper snapshots and so on.

unreal anvil
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I see, alright!

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going to try to install it now and then do my first snap shot

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or via CLI: qm set VMID --agent 1

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what's CLI?

tender phoenix
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That orange color means you have to reboot the VM for it to apply.

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Or stop and start.

unreal anvil
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unsaved edits

tender phoenix
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CLI is the command line interface.

unreal anvil
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should I follow the Linux commands?

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instructions

tender phoenix
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GUI is graphical user interface.

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Yes.

unreal anvil
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and I have to do this PER each VM?

tender phoenix
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Yep.

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You can clone a VM, btw.

unreal anvil
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gotcha

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oh damn!

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I don't think I should do that though

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I have 8gb RAM on HA

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4gb on Docker/Portainer now

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4 ram left

tender phoenix
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You can edit it. 8G is overkill for HA. I just use 2 for my test VM.

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Start with what you need and max out later.

unreal anvil
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alright, should I edit it to 2?

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or 4

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wait I already edited it to 4

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I'll leave it at 4

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that means I have 4 left, at least, for another VM

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I'll clone this VM with fresh Debian in case, already, and keep it for later

tender phoenix
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Whatever you want. 2G should be plenty and like I said, you can give it more when needed.

unreal anvil
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bro I learned so much today

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like it might feel like peanuts to you, haha

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but this is the core I need to learn

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it'll help me improve from here

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and it's so much fun tbh

tender phoenix
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It's eye opening actually. I take a lot of this for granted when I suggest people to use PVE.

unreal anvil
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yup it really is!

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so I did the first command

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I skipped the 2nd

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then I did the 3rd and it seems to be buggy

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ít's not do ing anything when I write the 3rd command

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just loading

tender phoenix
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Best to run shutdown -h niw and boot it up again.

unreal anvil
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this happened

tender phoenix
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You used CTRL+Z 😄

unreal anvil
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yes I did hahaha

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Try powering it off. Enable guest agent in options, then boot it again.

unreal anvil
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ok

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
unreal anvil
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which commands s hould I run?

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or thats it

tender phoenix
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No commands, just enable guest agent in the options.

unreal anvil
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done it's enabled

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so now I take a Snapshot manually?

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per VM?

tender phoenix
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Check that guest agent works first.

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Boot the VM and check the VM summary.

unreal anvil
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what should I see if guest agent works?

tender phoenix
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That is fine. Click on more to see all ips.

unreal anvil
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nice

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yup

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so it works1

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it cant hurt showing people this fe80::be24:: etc etc IP?

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
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I took a manual snapshot of both my VMs

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I want to duplicate the newly made VM now, in prep for the future

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how can I duplicate this fresh Debian VM?

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and then I'm off to bed!

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will get Docker/Portainer on it tomorrow!

tender phoenix
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I actually recomment creating a new one for that. You don't need 100G for every VM for example.

unreal anvil
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oh gotcha!

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alright no worries!

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I got a small bit of time left

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I'll get docker on it I guess

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using htis

tender phoenix
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Yeah. Check the notes at the top.

unreal anvil
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read it

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how to copy paste a command inside the Console/terminal?

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cntrl + V doesnt work

tender phoenix
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Just right click in7zo the putty window

unreal anvil
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oh it has to be through putty

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i was trying to get it into the Console

tender phoenix
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The console cannot do that. You need xterm but that should be googled.

unreal anvil
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gotcha

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which IP do I need to connect to?

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fe80::be24:11ff:fe0b:73c4

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this one?

tender phoenix
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Nope. It should be 192....

unreal anvil
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so I need to connect to my main device?

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the proxmox01

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not the VM?

tender phoenix
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But like I said you can try its hostname.

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No.

unreal anvil
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gotcha

unreal anvil
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xD

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what did you reply no on?

tender phoenix
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Not the node.

unreal anvil
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I see

tender phoenix
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You want the VM's ip.

unreal anvil
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where can I find the VMs localhost name?

tender phoenix
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You assigned it during install. You can also see it when you log in.

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Namehere#

unreal anvil
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Docker01 is mine then

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so docker01.localhost?

tender phoenix
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No. Just docker01

unreal anvil
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sorry wait

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oh ok

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got it

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so its debian12, right?

tender phoenix
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You cropped too much

unreal anvil
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rebooting

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this is what i see now after boot

tender phoenix
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Maybe you named it that 😄

unreal anvil
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ye I think I did

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so I need to install a SSH client on Debian12, for Putty right?

tender phoenix
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No. Remember the SSH option during install?

unreal anvil
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oh yeah

tender phoenix
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That installed a SSH server. Now you use a client in yoir PC to connect to that.

unreal anvil
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gocha

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gotcha

tender phoenix
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Yes, try that. If it doesn't work try the 192 ip you see in the summary under more.

unreal anvil
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oh I don't see the 192 one

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at all

tender phoenix
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Hmm. What does ip a in the console say?

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Looks like it didn't get a ipv4 address.

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Yoir router's DHCP might be broken. PVE had issues too during install.

unreal anvil
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hmm

tender phoenix
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Can you try dhclient -r; dhclient -v and show me what it says?

unreal anvil
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how to copy paste in the terminal?

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console*

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which shortcut keys

tender phoenix
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I told you you can't. Not with the normal console.

unreal anvil
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I see

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how come it's .179 now? my node is .231

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or does each VM connect to the .1.xxx subnet?

tender phoenix
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Every VM gets its own ip.

unreal anvil
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crazy

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ok coo!

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cool!

tender phoenix
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So you got a ip now but when you reboot things might change. Maybe you selected something during install that made it not work 🤷

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Your node has a static ip, btw.

unreal anvil
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got it

tender phoenix
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Your VMs usually use DHCP.

unreal anvil
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I do have DHCP enabled inside my router

tender phoenix
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Just like your PC or whatever else you connect to the network.

unreal anvil
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ytup

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yup

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I have a lot of devices on my .1 subent

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subnet

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so what now?

tender phoenix
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Can you try one more command in the VM?
cat /etc/network/interfaces

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Now you use the ip you saw and connect to it via putty to install docker or whatever.

unreal anvil
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ok checking

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
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access denied in putty

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lol what

unreal anvil
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what now..

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cant seem to get inside

tender phoenix
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Upload the picture again.

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And show me what putty says.

unreal anvil
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tried debian12 and root as login name

tender phoenix
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Did you create a user during install?

unreal anvil
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oh yeah

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wait

tender phoenix
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Remote root login is disabled by default.

unreal anvil
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ok im inside

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it was the username indeed

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Looks okay.

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Not sure why you didn't get a ip previously.

unreal anvil
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i c

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all good!

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so now..

tender phoenix
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Enter su, type the root password.

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You should then be root and can continue.

unreal anvil
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done

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yes

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Yep. Whatever you want.

unreal anvil
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is there a way to copy the commands inside putty?

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or I still have to write it over?

tender phoenix
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Yes. Just right click into the window like I said.

unreal anvil
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got it

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command not found!

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O_o

tender phoenix
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apt update && apt install curl then try again.

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Yeah I'm doing all kinds of typos if you didn't notice. See edit.

unreal anvil
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hahaha

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ok that looks better

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done

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now what?

tender phoenix
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Kinda obvious though considering the error message.

unreal anvil
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yeah..

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you're right 😄

tender phoenix
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Now you try again.

unreal anvil
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still command not found

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nop..

tender phoenix
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Can you show me what the apt command said?

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Oh wait.

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You copied the symbol at the start. Don't.

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It's not part of the command.

unreal anvil
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gotcha

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removing it didnt do anything either tho

tender phoenix
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People often use # or $ to symbolize a shell command. # usually means as root and the other as normal user.

unreal anvil
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gotcha

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good to know!

tender phoenix
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What should it do? It downloaded the file. Now you run that file.

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bash install-docker.sh

unreal anvil
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I did step 1,2,3

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step 4 gave me 'command not found;

unreal anvil
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I have to go to bed!

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Then docker should be installed now.

unreal anvil
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docker is installed now?

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how to double hcekc?

tender phoenix
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Check the output.

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It gives you a command to test IIRC.

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Otherwise just type docker

unreal anvil
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yup its installed!!

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nice!

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next step is, portainer?

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or we need to do something first

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alright I will leave it here for today!

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thank you so, SO much mate!

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you've been incredibly helpful, I hope you realize that!

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I'm learning a lot, taking a lot of ntoes

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notes

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won't take long until I become a veteran haha 😄

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GN buddy!

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🫡

tender phoenix
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Tomorrow portainer then.

unreal anvil
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yessir!

unreal anvil
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@tender phoenix hey buddy

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eager to get Portainer installed - can you please point me in the right direction?

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I think I need to follow this, right?

unreal anvil
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: /

tender phoenix
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Can't view that picture. Please upload it again.

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Put this into a file named compose.yaml

services:
    portainer:
        ports:
            - 8000:8000
            - 9443:9443
        container_name: portainer
        restart: always
        volumes:
            - /var/run/docker.sock:/var/run/docker.sock
            - ./portainer_data:/data
        image: portainer/portainer-ce:latest

Then run docker compose up in the directory where it is. If everything works without errors you can CTRL+C and run it with -d to have it run in the background.

unreal anvil
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no worries, I got it to run! @tender phoenix

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Thanks again, for that help

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yo buddy

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question

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why do I need proxmox?

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My friend is telling me that I should have installed docker on baremetal

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And then manually create containers

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for HA, and other use cases, etc etc

tender phoenix
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I thought you wanted to run HAOS in a VM.

unreal anvil
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he says Proxmox is useless for me lol

unreal anvil
unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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I actually don't really like HAOS and don't use it myself other than in a dev VM to help people with it.

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The majority of people use it so I have to be familiar with it and we assume people use it when they don't state otherwise: https://analytics.home-assistant.io/
You get the best support for it.

unreal anvil
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but

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my friend is telling me that I should have installed docker on a baremetal device

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and then c reated manual containers

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and give each container a specific use case

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like 1 container for HA

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and another container for another use case

tender phoenix
#

That's what you do in your VM.

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But you also have the benefits I linked.

unreal anvil
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I understand

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My friend is telling me that's wrong

tender phoenix
#

🤷

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Why?

unreal anvil
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he says running docker inside proxmox is like double up

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like doing the same thing twice

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he says it's like you're running proxmox inside proxmox

tender phoenix
#

Not really. Docker is not virtualization.

unreal anvil
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he says I have to pick between either docker or proxmox

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And I shouldn't run both, and never both in the same VM

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O_o

tender phoenix
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I have a feeling they don't know what proxmox Ve is.

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You don't run proxmox VE in a VM. It is the OS where VMs run on.

unreal anvil
#

it's basically creating VMs on a device

tender phoenix
#

Please google some of those questions.

unreal anvil
#

but I know

tender phoenix
#

If you're unhappy you can re-install bare-metal debian.

unreal anvil
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no I'm very happy

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but he's very persistant

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I want to learn and understand

tender phoenix
#

I can give you suggestions but I'm not interested convincing you. Take my facts and theirs and research what you want to do.

unreal anvil
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I totally understand buddy

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so he's telling me that docker is creating VMs, but then in the shape of a container

tender phoenix
#

Like Is said, I don't think they fully understand the difference between VMs and containers.

unreal anvil
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oh really..

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but is he correct in what he's saying?

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that Docker is also creating VMs, as containers?

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I'm trying to learn

tender phoenix
#

No that makes no sense.

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It's like saying audi makes cars as bikes. Just check the links.

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Now if you would create a VM for each docker container that would be redundant. But we ain't.

unreal anvil
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trying to understand

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it makes sense, what you're saying

tender phoenix
#

But let's close this thread as it's off-topic for the thread now too 😄
I recommend you ask your PVE question in the proxcord server. I'm usually there too.

unreal anvil
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I have a last question to ask..

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if that's okay with you

tender phoenix
#

Sure.

unreal anvil
#

he says he's using proxmox himself on a server pc at home, he has plex in a vm, sabnzb in a different vm

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he says Docker is offering the same, but then in containers

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so he's saying that you can do everything with both

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and with a container it's easier...

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because you don't need the underlaying OS

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like I do now

tender phoenix
#

Yeah? Try to run windows in a docker container.

unreal anvil
#

O_o

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
#

It just depends what you want to do. It makes more sense to run HA whatever in a container but that's what we do, just in a container in a VM.

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Hah. Cool.

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My point was that VMs and containers are different hence why I shared the links.

unreal anvil
unreal anvil
tender phoenix
#

Read them, see the differences. check if these matter to you.

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And again, benefits linked earlier.

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I don't see any disadvantages. Well besides harder installation.

tender phoenix
#

We use one single VM for dozens of docker containers. You can also use CTs which are similar to docker containers but they run a whole OS rather than a app.
I don't recommend CTs for now though.

unreal anvil
#

understand

tender phoenix
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Google CT proxmox

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Goes like this
PVE

Hardware > PVE (debian) > VM (debian) > docker > portainer
                                                 > HA
                                                 > Other app

Bare-metal

Hardware > OS (debian) > docker > portainer
                                  > HA
                                  > Other app
unreal anvil
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Understand!

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Interesting

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So if you were to be me, in my scenario

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Would you have installed proxmox > VMs > HA on one, and other use cases on another VM

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Or debian baremetal > HA in a container

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docker*

tender phoenix
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I run it like you do at the moment, just without portainer.

unreal anvil
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interesting..

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so you think we only have pros, and no cons

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versus the other options

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because I like the way we did it now!

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literally has no downside/con

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afaik

tender phoenix
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The installation and setup is harder, of course, but other than that I don't see the con. The benefits outweigh them a lot for me.

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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Just the snapshotting alone is so useful for testing things and reverting them again.

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Yeah.

unreal anvil
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interesting.....

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alright, I'll leave it as is!!

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hey thanks again, so so much!

tender phoenix
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No problem.

unreal anvil
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so he's saying..

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you have the same pros with both setups!

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O_o

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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/dev/kvm

unreal anvil
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oh wow

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so..

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that's interesting

tender phoenix
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And what are the disadvantages of what you have right now? Why do they want you to stop it so badly?

unreal anvil
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good question!

tender phoenix
unreal anvil
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I will provide you with an answer when I receive it!

unreal anvil
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so he's saying this:

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if he were to be me

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he would either only install proxmox with VMs

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or only docker with containers

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not proxmox with a docker, with container on top

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does that make sense..?

tender phoenix
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The why is missing.

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What's so bad about running docker in a VM.

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I initially suggested PVE because you wanted to run HAOS and other docker containers. HAOS does not support running random docker images so the only choice was to virtualize HAOS and run your other containers in a VM.

unreal anvil
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He says that Docker is perfectly capable to run standalone, in a VM we're losing resource power

tender phoenix
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And just because you only want to run HA right now in a container doesn't mean you might not want to run other things in a VM in the future. There's just no point limiting yourself if there's no con.

unreal anvil
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VMs are sharing resources

tender phoenix
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That does not explain why running VMs isn't bad but running docker in a VM is. Sharing resources is also very vague. Processes do that too.

unreal anvil
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he says that you can probably get HAOS on an ubuntu container within docker

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that would have been an option

unreal anvil
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I think the main point is that I have to allocate resources to a specific VM right?

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and so that resource gets drawn from within the resource pool

tender phoenix
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Yes you do but you have these available in the VM, don't you?

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It doesn't vanish.

unreal anvil
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good point!

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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I don't believe you can HAOS in a container but I'd like to see you try 😄
I'm open to change my mind.

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Besides, running HA in non-official ways is bound to get you stuck with no help.

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Same as I said for docker and portainer, stick to official guides or ways to run the software.

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I still don't know what's so bad about what you do right now.

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Why would you go through the pain of jerryrigging stuff for no reason.

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I'm tired of this through. I gave you all the answers, don't pick sides, gain knowledge and choose your own path.

unreal anvil
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I completely understand you

unreal anvil
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However, why would we want HAOS in specific and not HA in Docker for example?

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I'm trying t understand the main benefits of my setup now

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Because it appears that the way we did it, is actually VERY solid

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and really appreciate your insights/input on helping me get this done

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but lets say, if I'd have HA on Docker opposed to HAOS on the VM as I have now

tender phoenix
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I don'I don't know your reasons nor woudl I be able to remember them if I did.

unreal anvil
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I understand!

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HAOS is much simpler/easier right?

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compared to just HA on a container

tender phoenix
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The only "benefit" HAOS has, IMO, are addons but you can just run the stuff in docker containers and have more freedom so 🤷

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I linked you the benefits. You now have freedom to use CTs, all kinds of OSs, VMs, whatever you want.

unreal anvil
tender phoenix
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And you also get snapshots, proper backups and so on.

unreal anvil
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with HAOS vs HA

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Or VM vs Container?

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to clarify for me

tender phoenix
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With PVE vs bare metal.

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Addons are easy to install and integrate nicely with HA but addons are very restrictive.