#We have EU laws that protect us 🙂
hoary elm
I'm genuinely curious about what they are. I tried searching, and found this: https://commission.europa.eu/system/files/2020-04/chargeback_report_revised.pdf
It says:
In terms of chargeback, EU-law only covers credit card chargeback. Purchases where debit cards are used are not covered by EU-law but can be covered by national law such as in Denmark and Portugal. Debit card holders may nevertheless under certain circumstances enjoy protection of the card companies operating rules.
hoary elm
NP, thanks. It's still morning here 🙂
ruby pulsar
I had my debit card skimmed in the UK once, it was closed while I was sleeping and funds returned
I hardly ever use my CC outside of work travel
hoary elm
This paper compares consumer protection laws in general between EU and US. There are differences, but not huge: https://files.klgates.com/files/102469_european_community_consumer_protection_law_compared_to_us.pdf
hoary elm
I had my debit card skimmed in the UK once, it was closed while I was sleeping a...
Generally in the US your liability on a debit card is up to $50 and on a credit card it's $0, both assuming you follow proper procedures to notify the card provider when bogus charges arrive. Most banks that issue debit cards eat the $50 even when they don't have to, because otherwise they tend to lose customers. The bigger difference between credit and debit cards is for a credit card they're required to reverse immediately and keep it that way until the dispute is resolved. It can be much messier for debit, especially if it's more than ~$100
ruby pulsar
We don't have liability on any banking
We also don't have the kind of US credit scores
hoary elm
We don't have liability on any banking
Which country, and in what circumstance?
hoary elm
I recently did some admittedly superficial research on credit scoring in the EU. There are some national schemes, but nothing across the whole EU.
ruby pulsar
We aren't even EU
hoary elm
The less credit we have, the better
Ah - the start of this thread was about EU laws. Sorry, I do not have a complete mental list of which European countries are EU, EZ, NATO, etc..
ruby pulsar
It's a quite common misconception in the US that all of Europe is EU, we are part of Schengen and EEA but not EU
hoary elm
The less credit we have, the better
I know that they're different, but TBH I pay more attention to UK, Germany, France than the rest.
unique jay
Not having the US style credit is a general thing in the EU
ruby pulsar
All the bad ones 🫣
Germany's economy is failing, Brexit is a mess and France is.. France
hoary elm
Right, and I hear you've got a war going too.
ruby pulsar
For 18 months yes
unique jay
I think the US is more Imvolved in that than any EU country^^
hoary elm
The other bit of news-from-Europe we've gotten lately is that US citizens are going to start needing visas to travel there. Fuel for the isolationists.
hoary elm
I think the US is more Imvolved in that than any EU country^^
Poland might want a word
unique jay
They can want to. Doesn't matter unless Belarus/Wagner actually gets funny ideas
unique jay
The other bit of news-from-Europe we've gotten lately is that US citizens are go...
Actual pre-approved ones or how we enter Japan?
Which is technically not visa free, but the visa gets stamped into the passport at the border
hoary elm
Yes, the helicopter incursions made the news here too. Quite a few were questioning whether Poland would actually need NATO help to stop Belarus
hoary elm
Actual pre-approved ones or how we enter Japan?
Which is technically not visa fr...
Pre-approval required, no longer an at-the-border thing. It can be requested online, through a system called "European Travel Information and Authorization System"
unique jay
Oh wow. US passport actual trash tier now 😂
Knocked down 27 or so countries on the travel freedom list
hoary elm
Oh wow. US passport actual trash tier now 😂
Canada and Australia too, so at least our relative standing is about the same https://travel-europe.europa.eu/etias/what-etias_en
hoary elm
We need to pay to travel to the US, which is a funny concept
Real money, or $21?
hoary elm
Was just looking at it, which is how I knew it's $21. You can pay with any of the popular credit cards 😄
ruby pulsar
Or debit
unique jay
If I can't pay with sepa, it's clearly not worth it
ruby pulsar
Never heard of
unique jay
Huh. I thought it's euro zone and friends. Maybe it's really only euro zone
ruby pulsar
I'm old and gray
unique jay
Yea, no. You are using sepa
hoary elm
Never heard of
It's an EU thing they put in place after Brexit so they could still enable drunk British tourists to pay for their alcohol. At least that's what it looks like from here.
unique jay
hoary elm
Huh. I thought it's euro zone and friends. Maybe it's really only euro zone
It's Euro plus a few more
unique jay
When was Brexit? Sepa is 15 years old by now l
hoary elm
When was Brexit? Sepa is 15 years old by now l
Joking...
unique jay
Brexit took what? 6 or so?
But yea, imagine if brits had to use cavemen tech like cheques. I like the idea
hoary elm
I'm imagining Brits at the end of the night trying to settle a bar tab with a cheque.
ruby pulsar
Checks is mostly a US thing
Haven't seen it here or in Europe at all since the early 90s
unique jay
I think I've touched a grand total of 2
ruby pulsar
I've touched zero, I've seen two
unique jay
My mom's an accountant and when something went wrong I sometimes idled in the office
hoary elm
Cheque volume is decreasing rapidly here as well, as person-to-person payment limits increase.
unique jay
Also the only place I ever touched a 500€ bill
hoary elm
I don't think I've ever seen a bill >$100. Perhaps the existence of a 500€ note is a consequence of not using cheques.
unique jay
Nah. Cheques existed back in the 90s and in some business situations even into the 2000s
hoary elm
I don't think trying to pay with a 500€ note would have gone well before about 2002.
ruby pulsar
I haven't used hard cash since 2007
hoary elm
I had a $50 bill in my wallet from at least a year before covid, and it stayed there for at least 3 years.
unique jay
I don't think trying to pay with a 500€ note would have gone well before about 2...
Well ya. 2002 was the introduction of physical euro coins and bills
hoary elm
Last week a neighbor reimbursed me for his share of a fence between our yards. It was over $2000. How would your neighbor have paid you?
unique jay
Sepa bank transfer
hoary elm
so you'd have to exchange some banking information?
How is that implemented? Mobile phone? What about before ubiquitous mobile phones?
unique jay
A single number. Yes
unique jay
How is that implemented? Mobile phone? What about before ubiquitous mobile phone...
By banking....
It was literal paper orders. They still exist for old people
Most people these days use online banking.
Either via some software, website or app
When I have regular or higher sums, I use that within my family 🤷
hoary elm
a "paper order" is the same or different than a cheque?
unique jay
Entirely different
It's the exact same way you'd move your own funds between (orgazationally) unrelated accounts
hoary elm
When I have regular or higher sums, I use that within my family 🤷
"that" referring to paper orders? I have never heard of them. We have something called a "money order," but it sounds quite different. what you are describing (using paper to move higher sums) sounds no different than cheques. What's the difference?
unique jay
You go to your bank, tell it to move money to $identifier
Auth yourself by the appropriate means of your medium
The back executes the order
The value add if sepa was a unionization I'd those identifiers cross country
The previous system used other identifiers. But at least in Germany, the IBAN identifier of sepa is the old identifiers + a checksum
ruby pulsar
Last week a neighbor reimbursed me for his share of a fence between our yards. I...
We just send money to eachother with apps, fee free
hoary elm
Here's how the paper cheque worked: My neighbor wrote my name and the amount on a piece of paper (blank cheque) that already had his RTN and account number printed on the bottom. I used the banking app on my phone to take a picture of the paper. Done.
ruby pulsar
Just need the recipients mobile phone number
hoary elm
Just need the recipients mobile phone number
We have multiple systems like that. Zelle is the one most banks want to support. It can use mobile phone or email address.
ruby pulsar
We have two major ones, one from each of the major banks, one is more prevalent
We also use the same app to pay for public services, or at small stores if we want
Like if I go to the dump I just scan the qr code with the app
hoary elm
My neighbor could have used Zelle to pay me, though $2-3000 is starting to touch the limits especially for a first time payee.
unique jay
Here's how the paper cheque worked: My neighbor wrote my name and the amount on ...
The effective way it happens these days is:
You tell the other your number
They input that number and a value and press send
Depending on your settings, you receive a notification of new statements on your account before they lift the finger
ruby pulsar
Yes
hoary elm
Like if I go to the dump I just scan the qr code with the app
I just show them my driver's license to prove I live in this city, and the dump is free
ruby pulsar
I have to pay $10 every time I go, which is 4 times a year
unique jay
At 10k the bank might ask you to provide a source of the money
But that's unrelated to how the income arrives
General anti money laundering regulation
hoary elm
I have to pay $10 every time I go, which is 4 times a year
4 times a year they'll come to me for free. I did that for a big load a few months ago - mattress and an air compressor tank.
unique jay
We don't even have to prove any residency
Just go there and dump stuff. It's city service
hoary elm
We don't even have to prove any residency
Just go there and dump stuff. It's cit...
It would be abused in my area, due to close proximity of other cities and it's not free for commercial entities. Showing a driver's license is fast anyway.
hoary elm
Ours our statewide, but have home address printed on them.
ruby pulsar
unique jay
It would be abused in my area, due to close proximity of other cities and it's n...
We have volume limits instead of differences on private/commercial
ruby pulsar
No addresses nor place of birth
unique jay
Though I also live rural enough that people know people
Driver license only has the location of DMV-equivalent that handed it out
Now I wonder if my Spanish colleagues have to order theirs from Spain or can get a German one when it's up for renewal
I actually don't have any Id that has more accuracy than municipality I live in
ruby pulsar
None of my have any address or similar
Except the passport
It shows my city of birth, and where it was issued
hoary elm
Mine shows city of birth, which is across the country and I left at the ripe old age of about 6 months old. Ours also have place of issuance, but the majority anymore are issued by the national agency so it's meaningless.
unique jay
Passport has the current municipality and gets changed when you change the registered residence
hoary elm
The concept of a "registered residence" is...European.
unique jay
🤷 gotta send the tax collector somewhere
hoary elm
They take cash or cheque? 😉
unique jay
cash. No cheques. But usually you use a SEPA transfer. For both paying or receiving the overcharge back
hoary elm
Almost everyone files both federal and state taxes online, and supplies RTN and account number for the same purpose.
unique jay
they'd prefer to only do banking, but there's an iirc. EUGH (might be BGH) decision that they have to accept cash
🤷 our tax is deducted by the employer
unless you have writeoffs, just ignore it
hoary elm
That was actually an extra hassle with my elderly father last year. He saw a paper notice and sent a paper cheque. We had already arranged for the electronic payment.
unique jay
I think the usual setup like that for you guys is W-2? 🤔
hoary elm
Employer withholds money from payroll. At the end of the year, they send a W-2 form that says how much was withheld and for which reasons. An employer of any size/sophistication files the W-2 electronically.
ruby pulsar
We have had digital only taxes for well over a decade now, and government files it all for us, we just have to approve or adjust
unique jay
yea, filing taxes is "import the data transferred by employer"
then input your writeoffs
send
hoary elm
Then if you have reasonably simple taxes, you can go online and fill out a form that basically works out whether it's under or over. You have to initiate it rather than the government doing it, but not that different.
ruby pulsar
Oh we don't have to fill anything, it is prefilled with either return or owed
Most people don't have to do anything, it will send it self in if you do nothing
unique jay
it's kinda dumb here
if you don't file, nothing happens
The state might require you to, but it's not guaranteed.
So you can always do your taxes, and then just not send, if you have to pay. There's no penalty of doing them later IF you are required to. But it's unlikely either way
hoary elm
That "if you have reasonably simple taxes" qualifier is where it gets interesting. Our tax code can be quite complicated.
unique jay
the only complicated part is what you can write off 😂
(unless you have other sources of income. Then it's a bit more complicated. But for most employees it's dead simple)
hoary elm
Here's an old PDF of the simple form: https://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-prior/f1040ez--2017.pdf
ruby pulsar
I had to fix some stupid US tax stuff for stock exchange last year, other than that I just fix my car allowance every year
Nothing more
unique jay
oh yea, I'm really looking not forward to ever exercising my options...
unique jay
I had to fix some stupid US tax stuff for stock exchange last year, other than t...
I do write offs of tech stuff 😂
hoary elm
If you insisted on using paper (nobody really does): The 1040EZ I shared is 2 pages. Add the W-2, and it would be 3 pages. Typically another 2 pages would be generated for state taxes and they get a copy of the W-2 too. Total size of the package: 6 pages.
unique jay
all our forms exist in paper. But I don't know anyone that uses them that way anymore
hoary elm
On the more complex side, I just checked and my 2022 PDF was 51 pages. I generated one for my records only - nobody wants it.
unique jay
I think if I printed mine, it'd be 2 pages A4
ruby pulsar
Mine is three
hallow jackal
Holy smokes what a discussion
ruby pulsar
unique jay
2023-08-04. yw
hallow jackal
That's the date of today yes
ruby pulsar
timedate better?
unique jay
datetime pls
hallow jackal
Omg
I had to turn back to the programmer me to get the joke
I was still the happy social me
unique jay
happy social? Sounds wrong
hallow jackal
I mean the date went well
hallow jackal
I mean I have to be social to reel in a nice girl who I can be a geek with
ruby pulsar
