the-water-cooler

[last cedar]

@lone dagger found your reddit account

[clear ferry]

Sorry, can't hear you over the sound of confirmation bias

Lol nsfw

[primal laurel]

I knew you were swedish

[clear ferry]

Thankfully not

[forest edge]

why is that marked NSFW?

[last cedar]

No idea!

[mighty rose]

am I the only one that doesn't have any problems with any of the Tuya kit I have?

or is it a wifi vs zigbee thing?

[forest edge]

do they even make anything other than ww bulbs anymore?

although not all their zigbee stuff tick into the "it's ok" category either

[mighty rose]

yeah - I only use the zigbee stuff - so if its wifi related, that's explain why I never see those kind of problems

[forest edge]

what I hate is the sheer number of sub brands. in the begining for me it was hard to tell what was tuya and what wasn't just form a website description

[mighty rose]

I just call it Tuya if it has the actual tuya module in it

the only thing that annoys me is that my wired lightswitches that have neutral etc as well still don't have router functionality in them

only firmware related, but firmware updates for them.... hahahah good luck

oh - that reddit thread is bluetooth tuya stuff.

fuck using bluetooth for automation hahahaha

[clear ferry]

Yes

[toxic oasis]

My AC came with a Tuya Wifi Module , never had a problem. And still haven't found an esphome port for that one.

[lapis cairn]

Because the lights are off and unavailable and people might get hurt in the dark, at work.

But the real reason is at the top "NSFW in case it triggers someone into violence.".

[primal laurel]

so now you have a cloud dependent AC unit?

[toxic oasis]

Yeah kinda , but I control it locally with Tuya Local

[dawn badge]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVxOb8-d7Ic

[clear ferry]

I love Dara

[primal laurel]

this is why you should study electrical engineering

[dawn badge]

i did 🙂

[primal laurel]

nice, me too

[lone dagger]

Nerds.

[dawn badge]

that's almost a given in here is it not?

[deft pewter]

Sometimes they're geeks

[lone dagger]

Some may be dweebs.

Or dorks.

I do suppose the umbrella Nerd covers all these, though.

[deft pewter]

Nah. There's sometimes overlap on the Venn diagram but not all geeks are nerds.

[undone jolt]

Just in case anyone doesn't know it already... https://m.youtube.com/shorts/gz23hD4kjAc

[forest edge]

https://youtu.be/qZZ1OWQTgqQ?si=o6ZJLMq2EDPb40uL

[forest edge]

heh

[clear ferry]

Autism level 1-3 you see

https://tenor.com/view/mario-mushroom-gif-27102257

[primal laurel]

IT randomly pushing a reboot while im working

[lone dagger]

OH NOOOOOOOOOO

lmfao

[torpid oasis]

wheres the yes button i only see JA NEE XD

smh localisation is hard

[static schooner]

The selective translation is amusing

[torpid oasis]

its not really selective, the title/text arent translated at all, and since they use the generic dialog the YES/NO are translated from the system

[deft pewter]

You used to be an adventurer until you took an arrow to ja nee

[forest edge]

someone say Johnny?

https://youtu.be/yA9WhYnsD_4?si=uKFPNfQoz1X4X6Z0

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/ni-gemcat-we-are-the-knights-who-say-ni-monty-python-monty-gif-25107998

[torpid oasis]

Atleast it doesnt say
ДА НЕТ

[forest edge]

@tidal bronze you still ok? did your recent flight kick up your PTSD?

I really hope they don't send us 5k checks

[clear ferry]

I'll raise you me powering down an entire blade chassis wrong, in the middle of the day

Thankfully it was just a dev company, so they just went to lunch

Fucking devs

[forest edge]

they were adding more game support to linux and you killed it

good job

[clear ferry]

Hey hey, I have RTCW and dosbox, I'm fine

[primal laurel]

What's a blade chassis?

[last cedar]

That looks expensive

[clear ferry]

Not really, also EoL

[dawn badge]

power hungry though

[clear ferry]

Introduced 2006, retired 2019 due to some DoJ contracts that had to be maintained, was supposed to die in 2017

[clear ferry]

Not even close compared to newer systems

You'd love the E-class then @warm helm

Or the moonshot

The moonshot is literally HDI

(instead of VDI)

[primal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/red-pill-vista-direita-matrix-gif-17168868

[clear ferry]

45 servers per 4.2U

[solar zealot]

That's a lot of tips you are supposed to give them

[primal laurel]

that's a good step we could take in EUW, remove the tip option from every single app

[solar zealot]

the worst is a tip after paying a delivery fee

[primal laurel]

delivery fee + payment fee

• 'platform' fee

[iron granite]

fee processing fee

[primal laurel]

FEE CEPTION

[glacial knot]

tax on the fee, and fee for processing taxes

[urban viper]

-# A brief interruption in the updates to the server...
Join @Justin @ Apollo Automation and team tonight @ <t:1741050054:t>! You can catch them on either YouTube or Discord, more info here: https://discord.com/channels/330944238910963714/1346164339350179954

[lone dagger]

AWWWW IT DIDN'T TAG YOU IN HERE @raw tulip

[raw tulip]

Thank you!

[lone dagger]

lmaoooo

I think with tagging accounts (which works in the #community-updates channel) it's stripped when the message is shared because it can't guarantee that the person will be in a server it's posted in.

[static schooner]

But if you copy and paste text, it works

[lone dagger]

TOO MUCH WORK, ROB.

[static schooner]

Or maybe I'm thinking about Slack? I know tags come through in copied messages there

[clear ferry]

This just sounds like shopping in the US

[desert cave]

https://www.xda-developers.com/brave-most-overrated-browser-dont-recommend/

[clear ferry]

I ran brave for 6 months, it was nothing special, and the underside is not good

[solar zealot]

That's why it's the underside

[forest edge]

why it's called brave. gotta be brave to use it

[primal laurel]

yeah yeah I get it

[last cedar]

I know a great tip

|| don't eat yellow snow ||

[lone dagger]

[solar zealot]

Why? What delicates are you trying to hide from is

That big raccoon does not want us to know about

[last cedar]

It could be spilled juice, and you need to save it for your local raccoon

[forest edge]

I put out some old cat food at the barn and the racoons almost didn't seem to to enjoy it

[solar zealot]

Ofc not

They have the rumblies only cameras can cure

[sonic jungle]

haha, I was looking into whether Home Assistant could automatically collect and store ESPHome logs and found that @limber charm implemented it just last week https://github.com/home-assistant/core/pull/139073

this will be a big help for troubleshooting, thank you!

[forest edge]

its like they thought the begining scene from the blob was gonna happen

[light spindle]

So what's the dashboard the cool kids are using on their tablets/etc devices? Configuring an A7 (samsung tab) now and dwains is being weird

I guess just whatever is the standard

[forest edge]

if your looking for dashboard cards the bubble card is pretty popular

but this is not the channel to speak of such things

[solar zealot]

We are required to keep the raccoon to not raccoon talk ratio above 78

[light spindle]

erm, what's the generic chat for HA then? Because I don't want to open a forum thread on #1284965988642590891 just to ask that kind of stuff 😄

Anywho

[solar zealot]

For other stuff that doesn't best belong into those forums

Like raccoons

[static schooner]

You do need to write a post for those things

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/sponge-bob-squarepants-sponge-bob-squarepants-hoopla-gif-7227041

[light spindle]

I do enjoy the trash panda video tho

[forest edge]

no audio books for me

[light spindle]

spent 5 seconds too much to notice that's not a video

[lapis cairn]

That looks like a glorious possum!

[primal laurel]

Did somebody say trash panda

[light spindle]

can't confirm or deny

[dawn badge]

since i got frigate working the cats seem to be avoiding the camera 😦

[primal laurel]

Did you see the video I linked a while back, automatic water gun with frigate

[peak slate]

Did someone say stray cats?

That's only 3 of the like 6-8 that hang out from time to time

[dawn badge]

yeah i think i saw that

[lone dagger]

I want this cat's life.

[shell basalt]

that was a sunday i believe and he understood the assignment of "easy like sunday morning"

this was him yesterday staying out of the wind

[lone dagger]

BEANS

[ocean oar]

Damn, that is a relaxed cat

[solar zealot]

U guys need to box one up and ship em to me

[peak slate]

I have one, she sniffs the cats butts and then sleeps in the sun next to them

We kinda trained her out of that, but she was never as bad as my other dog who did catch one of the strays once before they started hanging out a lot in the backyard (it was always a highway for cats)

Which is also good that she doesn't have that drive because we have a cat now

[lone dagger]

Yeah we really need a pets channel lol.

[peak slate]

She's got hobbit feet

[lone dagger]

I love when this channel gets flooded with pets, though.

It's like a "timeline cleanse".

[peak slate]

Totally not sorry about flooding it with cute animal pictures

[lone dagger]

I wouldn't expect one to feel sorry, either! Everyone can use cute animal pics.

[iron granite]

If we only had an admin approving something like that.

[primal laurel]

Need a sports channel too while you're at it. I want to argue with people over F1 😂

[iron granite]

Sports is almost as dangerous as politics.

[lone dagger]

Bwahahahahah so I can see that being a forum channel with specific threads for each sport.

[ocean oar]

Here you go:

[primal laurel]

The Dutch HA server has a dedicated channel

[iron granite]

👍

[lone dagger]

lol do y'all care about any other sport?

[primal laurel]

Only things we win in

Which is surprisingly quite a lot

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/f1-safety-car-gif-25921981

[primal laurel]

Fyi

[solar zealot]

this looks like the game

[iron granite]

Louis Vuitton Grand Prix? WTF?

[solar zealot]

didnt know they drive caskets around

[deft pewter]

I've heard of Lewis Hamilton

[primal laurel]

Largest sponsor gets to pick the name I suppose

[peak slate]

I prefer some arcade racing to the sim racing, it's boring when you can't catch air

😛

[solar zealot]

for a moment i saw a dog and two pillows

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/funny-animals-lol-dog-cake-big-eyes-gif-12360942

[primal laurel]

Distinguished gentleman

[civic thunder]

This dog for mayor

[primal laurel]

his favourite food: banana 😂

[civic thunder]

He is a treasure.

[mighty abyss]

yo

[hoary canyon]

my two pups.

[static schooner]

that looks like a cat who's ashamed that it's not a dog

[ocean oar]

That is some considerable derp

[primal laurel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/OneOrangeBraincell/

[sterile ferry]

Pets? I got a new puppy recently

Brown one is 4 today 🎂

[forest edge]

https://youtu.be/kTksMPBgaos?si=B7R48pMQRbXqmNZT

[lone dagger]

I also have an orange idiot.

Hahahaha I didn’t realize the Trogdor art was in that even I picked it.

(My son’s art.)

[ocean oar]

Our cats are around 5yo, probably in the next week or two.
They were rescues in the very literal sense though, found on the roadside somewhere. So don't have an exact date

[forest edge]

we call those throw aways

all but one of my cats are throw aways

[ocean oar]

These are the tiny little balls of fluff we brought home:

[sage cedar]

Micro razor blades, so adorbs

[static schooner]

razor blades...of love

[static schooner]

Are you a bot?

[weak musk]

https://tenor.com/view/dancing-potato-realistic-gif-16847039136289569673

[static schooner]

First and only post, just joined, seemed suspicious

[forest edge]

the-abortion would make for an interesting offtopic channel name

[weak musk]

And we’re done <@&330946878646517761>

[ocean oar]

Byeeeeeeeee

[mighty rose]

This your cat?

[static schooner]

I literally LOLed

No idea what was going on there 🙂

[glacial knot]

noo, I missed it 😦

[static schooner]

Just a racist potato

[sage cedar]

I miss all the bots, oh well still entertaining.

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/potato-laugh-kepala-ubi-gif-1769729172946268170

[peak slate]

Lol I have that cat waterer

[clear ferry]

No those aren't imperial wrench sizes

[pine sentinel]

having problems setting up a discord bot to use in HomeAssistant - whats the best place/channel to go for support?

[static schooner]

If https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/discord , its an #1284966582375813201

[pine sentinel]

yep thats the instructions I followed and cant get it to work, will create a post in there, thanks for the pointer

[glacial knot]

Leaving your cellar? 😮

[clear ferry]

Happens once a month or so

[glacial knot]

Seems pretty low
What kind of toy plane are you on?

[clear ferry]

Just a 737-800

Just flew over the house of one of my colleagues, snapped a picture and sent him

[ocean oar]

🎶 little boxes, on the hillside

[clear ferry]

[primal laurel]

Is that Sweden?

[clear ferry]

Nein

[balmy latch]

yall know of a way to control the cpu fan on a pi 5 with h.a?

[tawdry stirrup]

what kind of fan you have there? I don't think it is anything standard?

[glacial knot]

@clear ferry have you done something with Fuchsia?

[clear ferry]

Nein

[forest edge]

looks like your plane is struggling to get some altitude

[deft pewter]

Strangely enough, it's preferable to have low altitude when you land 🤯

[forest edge]

is that how they do it? take off and immediatly prep for landing the rest of the trip?

[clear ferry]

When it's only 1h20m flight half of it is ascent and descent

For the 45m flights i do we seldom have much cruising altitude

[solar zealot]

i feel like planes have to few ads

why dont people get shown some for the entire duration of the flight

not like they can use wifi if you dont offer it

[forest edge]

like ads about funeral services?

[solar zealot]

yea

and the other typical stuff you see on trashy sites

and instead of selling snacks you can buy those products through plane staff

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/dippercraft-madoka-pmmm-madoka-magica-sayaka-miki-gif-23126591

[solar zealot]

like if you need some medications or a car or other stuff

insurance yes!

a splendid idea

[deft pewter]

If you fly the shitty budget airlines in the UK, it certainly feels like you're forced to hear ads the whole way.

Looking at you, Jet2.

[solar zealot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvQ571eAOZE

basically this but during the whole flight

[clear ferry]

I don't think I've ever seen an ad on an airplane, and I have flown across most of the world

[solar zealot]

see! thats what i am talking about

people arent getting served enough ads during flights

billions of $$$$$$ not being made

[forest edge]

hmm @tidal bronze hasn't responded to my question yet. hope his plane didn't have to make an emergency landing in N Korea

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/trump-donald-trump-thumbs-up-good-yes-gif-13303990716584415679

[solar zealot]

they just talk shit about that korea to not let you know its a great and inexpensive location for your holidays

*elites dont want you to know

[deft pewter]

Just don't visit the secret floors in hotels and you'll be fine

[simple gazelle]

I went to the one of those in Tallinn, they had a little museum there as the KGB people didn't totally clean up, just destroyed everything sensitive and left, so their coats are hung up.

[deft pewter]

This is the one I'm thinking of in N Korea: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/stories-44469005

[glacial knot]

You haven't been on a real cheap flight, have you?

[solar zealot]

you know how people pay for netflix, prime and or yt premium and still get served ads? basically this

and now ad corp gimme moneys

[deft pewter]

I'm just glad more people don't know how to do network-level ad blocking, otherwise corps would make more of an effort to get past that.

AdGuard Home ftw.

I can't remember the last time I saw an ad on YouTube on my PC, which has its DNS pointing at my AGH. I see ads on the same content on my Apple TV, which I currently don't have pointing at AGH.

Something must be working somehow, despite the shared domains.

Yeah, I have uBlock. But that blocks by element, not by domain. I don't think it's what's responsible for blocking the video ad segments that YT loves to insert.

My uBlock also died today... but there's uBlock Lite now, which is almost as good, just not as configurable.

[primal laurel]

AGH doesn't block anything on YT

[dawn badge]

the big issue with lite is that the lists cant be updated quickly

[peak slate]

Using chrome I guess, with their totally not to kill ad blocker update?

[dawn badge]

so when youtube goes on one of its arms race sessions where the lists get updated within minutes anyway... well now its not minutes anymore. its however long it takes google to approve it. which i guess might actually be just about as long as it takes for them to move the target again

[primal laurel]

what a shitshow that the internet doesn't function properly without having a good ad blocker

[dawn badge]

with manifest v3 stuff has to be built in and not pull from an external source (e.g. a github list file)

[deft pewter]

Yeah. Manifest v3 was a dick move. But Google make a ton from ads, so it was completely expected.

[peak slate]

Hope you don't use chrome then, cause that just supports the ad problem

[deft pewter]

If someone makes a better browser, we'll stop using Chrome 😂

[peak slate]

I went full Firefox and have never looked back

On Android and Windows

[dawn badge]

I guess its crept up because the people that cared just adblocked and the rest had to deal with more to compensate

[peak slate]

Oh man talk about worse than just chrome

Lol

[primal laurel]

im on FF for about a year

[shell basalt]

yay blizzard warning!

[deft pewter]

What have Blizzard done wrong now?

[shell basalt]

existed!

[deft pewter]

But Bobby's gone!

[shell basalt]

i got some ginger candy

[deft pewter]

We don't talk about them like that

[shell basalt]

and i dont mean a red-headed stripper named candy ..

[dawn badge]

i used to use FF but then some sites decided to not work right with FF so i had to use chrome for them and i didnt really want to use multiple browsers (this was a very long time ago to be fair)

[deft pewter]

FF was a good browser. I don't know when they dropped the ball but it's been mediocre for a while now.

There's a reason Chrome has the largest market share by a friggin' mile.

[shell basalt]

the internet has gotten mediocre!

[peak slate]

And because everyone else gave up on making browsers

MS you idiots

Edge wasn't perfect but at least it wasn't chromium at the start

[shell basalt]

Edge was always chromium

[peak slate]

Now chrome is just Internet explorer 6

[deft pewter]

MS gave up making browsers back in the 90's. You can't tell us that any recent version of IE or Edge was any good 😂

[deft pewter]

The first versions were proprietary.

[peak slate]

Incorrect, by a mile, it originally was it's own thing with an Ie integration layer in it

It was only that way for like a year though

[deft pewter]

in late 2018, Microsoft announced it would completely rebuild Edge as a Chromium-based

[peak slate]

I used it back in the early days, wasn't bad

On my eeepc netbook

Lol

[deft pewter]

It was laggy and crap, even compared to FF 😄

[shell basalt]

Edge isn't a rebuilt Internet Explorer.. even MS will say that

[dawn badge]

ooo i remember those

[deft pewter]

Noone said it was. But it wasn't Chromium from day one either, as was your claim.

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/popcorn-guy-relaxing-popcorm-popcorn-gif-26404903

[peak slate]

I only said it had IE compatibility modes for sites that didn't run in other browsers

[shell basalt]

ok.. this is just one of those things where I don't care if you're right or not

[peak slate]

Because back in the day some websites were designed for IE only, kinda like today with chrome, instead of being designed to the standard

This is also a weird hill to die on for ya

[dawn badge]

the forced manifest v3 has not come for me yet. i really havent decided how i am going to deal with it when it comes

[deft pewter]

The problem is that 'the standard' doesn't really exist. There are enough ambiguities in it that you'll always end up with different implementations in different engines.

[dawn badge]

this is exactly why google made chrome

[primal laurel]

fuck google. In fact, fuck all big tech

[deft pewter]

And for all their issues, Google have done a fab job leading the way with browser tech. If you're interested, follow folk like Jake Archibald to see the good side.

[dawn badge]

they needed a browser that worked correctly with their apps/services

[lone dagger]

[peak slate]

If only they had better heads at the helm who didn't want to turn the entire Internet into ad ridden garbage

I know the engineers aren't too blame, I blame the head, board, and capitalism

But also I refuse to support them

[deft pewter]

Yeah. Corporate are the real evil (as with any business). The tech folk are amazing.

[peak slate]

I haven't fully degoogled, but I only remove Google services from my use, never add them, and they do love killing services I use

[lone dagger]

That’s not your problem, though. That’s theirs.

Same, YouTube is the only platform by Google I can’t get rid of.

But most upload to many other platforms.

It’s really hard to avoid everything, too, because they just buy everyone up!

[iron granite]

You just have to buy Google/Alphabet to break the chain.

[lone dagger]

Solution: Meta is trash, and TikTok is brain rot.

I meant more people do things like Patreon (oh look another garbage tech company) to post their videos.

It’s inescapable.

[peak slate]

I still have Gmail and YouTube since those haven't been killed yet, but I use Plex for music now that Google music is dead, hangouts dying was the last chat app of Google I'll ever use too

[peak slate]

But at least it's smaller than Google, don't have as much money to through around to destroy what you love

[dawn badge]

yeah, there are ways of viewing youtube without the offiical site/apps BUT to be fair something youtube does to well is "discovery"

[lone dagger]

Most companies are smaller than Google.

They changed a lot of their algorithms with the LLM boost.

For the worse.

See my follow up.

😂

We get a ton of garbage now, and my husband SUSPECTS that even if a product or other video is mentioned in something we watch, it’ll start pumping that content to us.

[peak slate]

We have noticed it pumping content based on our conversations too

[dawn badge]

i am a google user. i have a workspace account that i use for hosting my own domain email.
however i do pull a complete email backup nightly so if i needed to i could move to a different provider pretty quickly

"use but dont depend on"

[peak slate]

And we don't have any smart speaker or other always on listening device to snoop

So it's the phones snooping

[peak slate]

What do you use for your backups

[lone dagger]

WE HAVE APPLE

[peak slate]

Better than Google, though that's a freaking low bar

[lone dagger]

I mean, how would Apple devices do that for us?

[dawn badge]

https://github.com/GAM-team/got-your-back
i have a script that pulls down all the .eml files then archives them

[primal laurel]

Is it? After what they have done to right to repair?

[peak slate]

Being on not the advertising based operating system helps them

[lone dagger]

(Btw several of these companies have admitted to listening in on convos, but totally promised they would stop. We believe them, right? Right???)

[rapid plinth]

I don't think that's even legally possible... looking at the NSA's track record

[weak musk]

😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣

[peak slate]

When the FBI and CIA started telling Americans to use encrypted chat apps, I knew something went sideways!

Someone else got in the backdoor just like all the security researchers said would happen!

[dawn badge]

apple dropping e2ee in the UK because it was asked to put in a backdoor "secretly" has really asked some questions about whats going on

[solar zealot]

have people considered being mad at the gov

[dawn badge]

even if they did it, its not going to be secret for long. even assuming its not leaked and/or independently discovered.
the first time evidence from it is used in court the secret is out

[deft pewter]

I love that the US is looking to sue the UK over it too 😄

[dawn badge]

apple users (en mass) are not technologicially sound enough to understand and/or care. and alot of non-apple users are in the "it doesnt effect me so i dont care" bag

[solar zealot]

as not a uk guy id recommend them to drop a couple of hamburgers into the harbour

[dawn badge]

i think the equivilent would be dropping iphones in the harbour.

[solar zealot]

not what americans would call burger

[rapid plinth]

They won't though, they never did. Spy agencies make problematic people just disappear and mainly engage in sabotage

[solar zealot]

no one ever questions where the "fake cheese" went that was the big ew half a decade back

[rapid plinth]

didnt nilered make some and it came out like, white, before the coloring?

[solar zealot]

can we be sure this isnt the vegan cheese of today

enough conspiracy for me today

[lone dagger]

It's not even 7am.

[lone dagger]

I'm finally applying for my passport today!

[clear ferry]

I'll take that as an invitation

[clear ferry]

american with a passport ?

https://tenor.com/phk2.gif

are you moving to NÅRVEI!?

yours dont expire ?

ours have a validity of 12 years istr

[solar zealot]

also why would you apply for a passport, this doesn't have interview and leetcountry tasks to do

[lone dagger]

I need it if I want to go to Ireland in June!

[clear ferry]

5 years for 10-16 years it seems

and 10 years for 16+

[glacial knot]

Six until age 24, then 10 years here

[deft pewter]

The best Americans are the ones that stay in America 😅

[solar zealot]

Isn't Ireland inside of america

[deft pewter]

Not yet

[glacial knot]

Ireland
Going to a conference?

[clear ferry]

no need to call out sonoma like that

[clear ferry]

and stay I hope

I've lived in Ireland

for 12 months

[deft pewter]

I wouldn't mind visiting for a few days. 12 months seems far too long to survive on Guiness and potatoes.

[clear ferry]

Good thing I only drank Jameson and ate chinese food!

[glacial knot]

I think the issue was lack of potatos

[deft pewter]

Not anymore!

[clear ferry]

"Hi we live on an island, we starve when potatos don't work"

"what is a fish?"

[deft pewter]

And apparently, a potato-only diet is pretty nutritious.

[clear ferry]

Boxty is delishious btw

[deft pewter]

Yeah, potato pancakes ftw

[lone dagger]

Company meetup! 😄

[lone dagger]

No, not this round. They are making it harder for Americans to come over anyway.

[glacial knot]

Neat. And then tour Europe?

[solar zealot]

Bring some stickers

[lone dagger]

Unlikely, lol. At least for now. But it'll give me the chance to travel more if needed.

I should have got this last year, tbh.

[forest edge]

going abroad to see what slumming is like huh?

yea I imagine you experince it everyday lol

[primal laurel]

we need to have a conversation

[static schooner]

That doesn't end well

[primal laurel]

at least somebody knows this movie

[deft pewter]

Yeah, it's the one where Jesse Plemons plays a bad guy

We watched something recently where my missus thought he was a good guy. Narrator: he wasn't.

[forest edge]

was not a really good movie

[static schooner]

I remember the scene, what leads up to it, and the outcome, but not the movie title 🙂

[forest edge]

civil war

some netflix thing i think

[deft pewter]

A24. And it was a decent movie, like most A24 movies.

Probably a bit deep for you, I guess.

[forest edge]

that scene that stefan posted is remembered largerly to the red glasses he wore lol

sticks out like a sore thumb as not being a common thing

[static schooner]

Yeah, had to do a reverse image search. I remember it now

[deft pewter]

No idea. This isn't a support channel

This is where we talk shit

[forest edge]

and bring up bad movies

[lone garnet]

i was typing thinking I was in the installation channel ha

i have moved

[forest edge]

i could see how civil war could be confused with installation lol

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/the-interview-james-franco-david-skylark-same-but-different-but-still-same-gif-4956158

[pine sentinel]

I created a post in #1284966582375813201 about a discord bot but no comments at all, most other posts got lots, even those after mine - so I'm guessing I'm missing some information that is needed to allow people to help - any idea what I can add ?

[primal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/plankton-funny-spongebob-funny-mmm-mm-m-gif-15410919596561556956

[deft pewter]

A sprinkling of patience

[fair edge]

I miss the old non-forum system, so assume this channel will do for this. I have a working zigbee setup with a dongle in proxmox vm ,etc. Any particular reason why picking up a SMLIGHT zigbee remote unit makes sense?

[iron granite]

That's something for the #1284966617670881350 channel with the "Zigbee" tag. Not for this one.

[fair edge]

I'm not interested in posting to a forum

[static schooner]

Good day, then

[fair edge]

i was interested in a discussion, if the discussion of stuff like this has gone away, then that answers the question also.

[static schooner]

You're in the wrong place

[fair edge]

all good

[static schooner]

Cya

[fair edge]

passive aggressive ++

[pine sentinel]

discussions do happen, in the right place

[fair edge]

was following the description of the channel 🙂

[primal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/trash-gif-2067421587001062737

just me, opening this channel

wait that's a self burn

[fair edge]

https://tenor.com/view/φωτιά-μ-gif-2547782084576614177

[lone dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/laughing-lol-elissa-slater-bb15-spit-take-gif-14857199341279431068

[dawn marlin]

This is a lot more chill than I thought the discord would be lol

[forest edge]

can't we all just get along

[dawn marlin]

I was worried it was gonna be all uptight

[primal laurel]

what did you just say? be more respectful greenie

jk

[fair edge]

I miss the pre-reorg chats, which had it's share of spicy

i did mostly just chaton the old hardware channel though

[primal laurel]

I miss when the world was not on fire

oh well

[fair edge]

yup

we all wanted a pony, but....

[civic thunder]

I'm just here for pictures of doggos and kitties

[primal laurel]

not raccoons?

[forest edge]

my city wants to pass a tax to help pay for the police dept renovation that would redo the front and add in like this walking path to go from the parking lot to the doors essentially adding 30+ft to make it to the doors and one of their "reasonings" for this is to help people seeking help within foot distance of the police station get inside safer

[civic thunder]

I mean racoons too if they're pets

All pets welcome

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/lion-boop-human-happy-lion-boop-gif-16310064093880133910

[lone dagger]

No. I said we needed one.

I never committed to the creation of one.

Important distinction.

https://tenor.com/view/technically-correct-the-best-kind-of-correct-gif-17815153

[iron granite]

But the more important question would be: would you oppose the creation of one.

[forest edge]

imagine having to tell everyone in this channel to go to #pets everytime they posted some dumb cat or dog or racoon picture?

prob never see @last cedar again

[primal laurel]

if they get a pets channel I want an F1 channel.

[iron granite]

We remove all community channels except one #only-pets
problem solved

An F1 channel with Stefan as only user seeing it. Noted.

[lone dagger]

I would not be opposed, but it does need to be called only-pets. I cannot accept any other name.

[primal laurel]

I'll spam this channel every time verstappen wins

[forest edge]

locked too and cannot see any other channels...

[primal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/evil-evil-laugh-evil-racoon-hehehehe-muhahaha-gif-25486258

[lone dagger]

I'll make a sportsball channel. But I want to do a thread channel for this one, which takes a little more planning.

[solar zealot]

sportsball

So golf but no darts

[forest edge]

a thread channel for OT?

[iron granite]

So it is just a matter of bribery by the community for someone of us maybe doing it.

[primal laurel]

wait... f1 has no ball...

[solar zealot]

Shh it's how I earn stickers

[forest edge]

haven't you gotten the hint that we want to restrict the usage of thread channels by now? lol

[iron granite]

I'm sure there is a ball bearing somewhere in an F1 car.

[dawn badge]

yeah, gotta be at least 1

[primal laurel]

good point

[dawn badge]

sad to miss darts but at least we will have cricket 🙂

[lone dagger]

https://tenor.com/view/no-way-never-shake-head-schitts-creek-david-rose-gif-26023718

[solar zealot]

Crickets? Yea a lot of them

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/tentacle-futurama-love-fry-gif-19121237

[solar zealot]

🦗

[lone dagger]

With a vuvuzela?

Please say I am correct.

[red rock]

TU TU TUDU

[dawn badge]

cricket is great, although can be somewhat bizarre if you try to explain it

the famous explanation

When a man goes out to go in, the men who are out try to get him out, and when he is out he goes in and the next man in goes out and goes in. There are two men called umpires who stay all out all the time and they decide when the men who are in are out.

When both sides have been in and all the men have out, and both sides have been out twice after all the men have been in, including those who are not out, that is the end of the game!```

[silent dove]

ChatGPT and other "AI" systems do a fantastic job of generating well structured, convincing looking answers... that are either totally garbage or, if you're lucky, have subtle flaws. Don't use them to "help" others, and don't use them yourself.

[primal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/max-verstappen-formula1-dutch-max-verstappen-gif-26539525

[dawn badge]

if that was directly at the cricket explanation its not AI, its a comedy thing from the 1970's

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-stare-catstare-cat-stare-sus-catglare-cat-glare-gif-14942558849944709546

[forest edge]

isn't AI better now?

like isn't it inevitable if it's always learning..

I like googles ai thing when it comes to doing maths lol

[iron granite]

The question is: is it learning and getting better or is it learning and trying to kill us all?

https://tenor.com/view/terminator-terminator-robot-looking-flex-cool-robot-gif-16625083

[forest edge]

just don't buy the dialysis machine with optional wifi and we'll be safe

[dawn badge]

one leads to the the other I suspect

[dawn marlin]

It’s fine ai is super helpful and wholesome, it’s helped me so much, that’s why I helped it find John Connor, whoever that is

[dawn badge]

gotta tell the ai to have a personality of someone from history so you have a head start

[desert cave]

It's smart enough to fool a bunch of people into thinking it's smart

[forest edge]

what is smart anyways

[pine sentinel]

Specific, measurable, achievable, relevant and time-bound - oh wait

[deft pewter]

That's the thing. It doesn't learn.

[forest edge]

oh i dunno. didn't one of them try to escape a reboot or something by copying itself to not just one external sources but two?

[deft pewter]

lol... no

[desert cave]

that sounds like a news post written by GPT

[deft pewter]

They aren't sentient. And they can't teach themselves anything new. They're just statistical models trained by people.

Anything beyond that is just wishful thinking by idiots that don't understand the tech.

[lone dagger]

Are we sentient?

[deft pewter]

Yes. But we're not "AI".

[lone dagger]

I dunno about that.

I know some people I would classify as having artificial intelligence.

[forest edge]

https://www.reddit.com/r/ChatGPT/comments/1h7k5p6/openais_new_model_tried_to_escape_to_avoid_being/

[desert cave]

"intelligence" is doing a lot of heavy lifting there

[primal laurel]

the deep learning stuff the big companies are doing right now is not the only method to build AI

[forest edge]

when that first came out there was far less clarification about it lol

[primal laurel]

there are some methods that could learn online

[lone dagger]

I said what I said.

[deft pewter]

Read the full article. It didn't attempt to do those things. It doesn't have the capacity to do those things. It replied with text that mimicked what a human might say in that situation - which is exactly what LLMs are designed to do.

[lone dagger]

For realsies, the way ML algorithms learn is only with human input to adjust the statistical relevance for whatever output it decides.

[deft pewter]

Stochastic parrots. That's the full story.

[forest edge]

#the-water-cooler message

[lone dagger]

This is the best way I have seen people describe them, thank you for that laugh.

[primal laurel]

are you talking about LLMs now?

[deft pewter]

This gave me a good laugh too: https://www.newyorker.com/humor/sketchbook/is-my-toddler-a-stochastic-parrot

[forest edge]

we still pour billions into it. one day it could be everything we fear

[deft pewter]

No. There's no pathway from LLMs to AGI.

[lone dagger]

LLMs are just another form of ML.

[primal laurel]

yeah but not everything needs human input to learn

[desert cave]

corps pour billions into LLMs because it's the buzzword of the week

[forest edge]

so like eletric cars.. it's just a fad?

i knew it..

[deft pewter]

And even now, we're seeing people back off. Microsoft, even with all their spending on Copilot, have said that LLMs add no value.

https://futurism.com/microsoft-ceo-ai-generating-no-value

[lone dagger]

Valid, but it still needs human approval for accuracy. That's how they trained the ML tech behind finding cancer in medical scans. Human intervention is still required.

[deft pewter]

We're finally seeing prominent CEOs of tech firms admit that it's all just a wasteful fad. Hopefully the end is nigh.

[desert cave]

ideally we'd be going for better transit but I'll take EVs, and that market is already pretty well entrenched, at least in the rest of the world

[deft pewter]

You're not wrong about the replacing part being useless but does it augment anything? Studies have shown that it doesn't actually increase productivity.

[primal laurel]

not always. It depends what you're doing and how you're doing it. There are quite some philosophies and methods out there now

[forest edge]

so is AI it would seem.. the entrenched part

to big to fail kind of thing maybe

[desert cave]

🎉 capitalism 🎉

[primal laurel]

it absolutely helps with coding

[desert cave]

it absolutely helps you write bad code, yyes

[forest edge]

the meme's it poops out are getting better too

[primal laurel]

I dont think so

[forest edge]

still waiting for entire movies and tv shows to be created from ai

[desert cave]

yeah, just show me the image lol

[deft pewter]

Except that's the area the studies I've seen have covered and they absolutely reject your claim. Individual devs may believe it makes them more productive but metastudies of thousands of devs show no overall improvement.

[primal laurel]

which studies are those?

[lone dagger]

Microsoft just released one.

[primal laurel]

which one?

[lone dagger]

https://www.404media.co/microsoft-study-finds-ai-makes-human-cognition-atrophied-and-unprepared-3/ The one where they say it's ruining our cognition.

[deft pewter]

Not sure if this links directly to the study but it's a trustworthy tech site: https://www.theregister.com/2024/07/26/ai_hinders_productivity/

[forest edge]

paging @tidal bronze

[unborn merlin]

https://tenor.com/view/linus-tech-tips-ltt-bug-gif-19900847

[deft pewter]

The only group of people claiming that it boosts overall productivity are the people selling the tech.

[primal laurel]

that's a survey, not a study

[primal laurel]

hidden behind paywall

[unborn merlin]

and the people too stupid to be able to know better already.

[primal laurel]

"Half of respondents were C-suite execs" lol?

[unborn merlin]

because its being sold as that*

[lone dagger]

The paper isn't. It's linked in the first sentence.

[deft pewter]

Eh. ML, I completely see the value in. GenAI... it's a con.

I agree with the abuse of "AI" as an umbrella marketing term but you know exactly what I mean by GenAI.

[pine sentinel]

Nvidia's crazy stock price has stopped increasing now too, people are starting to realize its not this amazing thing that will change the world forever

[deft pewter]

Stuff like detecting cancer in scan images using regression... that's an amazing use of ML.

[primal laurel]

GenAI is here to stay. It will become part of most products. For some it's a good addition. for others it's not. Better get used to it

[forest edge]

yet

it has to be a "yet"

[unborn merlin]

until it gives itself dementia

and then its worthless.

and we're all using 3.5 instead of anything newer.

🙃

[primal laurel]

dementia?

[unborn merlin]

model degradation by a different word.

[deft pewter]

RAG is reasonable, sure.

[unborn merlin]

slop ingesting slop and all.

[primal laurel]

oh... well they have a million metrics to track it all

[deft pewter]

Yup. And since they're not bothering to watermark their own output, ingesting its own slop is inevitable.

[primal laurel]

as to coding it seems to becoming good enough to write small programs on its own. Based on the benchmarks

[unborn merlin]

and will continue to refuse to watermark because that would defeat the point of it.. 🙃

[deft pewter]

What's the sci-fi novel that has a subtheme about exactly this? Some government department exists to try to tell the difference between AI slop and real work.

Maybe a Gibson novel?

[pine sentinel]

I've used it for that, gets 80% of the way there VERY quickly, but then does need someone who actually knows how to code to review it and tweak

[primal laurel]

I have read a bit of the paper but this one is not about coding. It seems to be about general tasks like creation, advice etc.

[pine sentinel]

you cant just assume it works and run what it gives you, like some people seem to think

[deft pewter]

Which is why devs aren't going anywhere anytime soon. Can't get a Product Owner to tell an LLM to build software 😂

Hell, you can't even get a Product Owner to write a proper Jira ticket yet...

[primal laurel]

yeah thats' fine. It needs some kind of create - evaluate loop to really be useful. That seems to be starting now

[pine sentinel]

worst JIRA I've ever seen was literally : "its not working"

no context whatsoever

[primal laurel]

but then I would not deploy it in the wild without a whole bunch of guardrails

I dont't use it for code generation anyway, only as a copilot

[deft pewter]

Agentic workflows finally have me feeling a bit less cynical about LLMs but they're still buggy crap that hallucinates. I've had Copilot's agent mode do a fantastic job of an edit and then say "wait, I've spotted other bits I need to update", only to go on and royally fuck up the rest of the file. There was no prompt in the middle to accept. No checkpoint where I could've commited the good changes before it made more.

When agent mode gets it right, it's awesome. But it's still problematic often enough that I feel it's a net negative for my productivity.

[primal laurel]

yeah I wouldn't trust it either right now. But I think if you could deploy it in some kind of sandbox with proper CI/CD, unit testing etc it could manage something useful

[deft pewter]

You know what takes most of the time when I build things, and would be fantastic for these bots to write? My unit tests. But that's the most critical bit to get right and they fuck them up too.

Writing code isn't the slow part of development, as I'm sure you're aware.

Now if everyone were to switch to TDD, you could probably get an agent LLM to write accurate code. But that depends on everyone being good at TDD and getting every test case right.

[primal laurel]

really? For python at least it now seems to now have access to the language server

so it can actually see the properties and methods of all objects

which generates useful unit tests

[deft pewter]

That doesn't mean it can write correct logic.

It doesn't understand anything to know what tests would be useful.

All it knows is that your variable is a string, so it won't do math on it.

Or maybe it will, who knows? 's'*5 is valid, right?

[primal laurel]

it doesn't know anything, but it does statistically have some concept of what unit tests look like

[deft pewter]

Yes, like a stochastic parrot.

[primal laurel]

check property.. does it have the right value... check method... does it return the right thing...

[deft pewter]

I don't want tests that look like good tests. I want good tests.

If these tools could work at least as well as even a junior developer, I'd be happy. But even my worst dev beats them still.

(if you're in here, I love you Xander)

[primal laurel]

I don't want to speak for frenck. But I know frenck uses and likes copilot and he's about the best dev I know so surely that means something

[deft pewter]

If it works for some people, great. I just don't see it (and that study survey doesn't either).

[primal laurel]

That survey didnt test coding...

[deft pewter]

If there's this much variance and disagreement, it feels like it's the same issue as 'learning types' (although those have been debunked too in recent years).

[primal laurel]

I think it just comes down to what you use it for. The benefits for coding are massive, at least for me. I dont copy pasta code gen but I use it as a helper in the loop

[lone dagger]

The tech GitHub Early showed off at GitHub Universe last year made me very hopeful for how helpful genAI can be with coding as a beginner. I do think it can get there - and Claude is already there.

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/like-a-boss-jcvd-vandamme-splits-jean-claude-van-damme-gif-5419516

Claude

[deft pewter]

with coding as a beginner
This is my nightmare. It's a crutch that's going to hide your own weaknesses instead of teaching you and helping you spot mistakes. I worry for the next generation of devs.

Yes. Fundamentals first. Too many people skip straight to 'asking chat'

[lone dagger]

Tbh, I learn best by having functional code and then picking it apart myself. I also already have the fundamentals.

[deft pewter]

by having functional code and then picking it apart myself
Code reviews and reading through open source, right?

[lone dagger]

"beginner" as in I cannot just dream up code myself, but I understand logic.

And I can read most coding languages.

[forest edge]

it will be a light switch. one second what everyone wants and the next skynet

[iron granite]

I can read all coding languages. I just don't understand them.

[lone dagger]

good gods I hope so

[forest edge]

we'll know it happened cause the internet will stop working lol

no more HA shit talking

[primal laurel]

it's like math. Gotta practice

[forest edge]

we'll just have to shit talk to the wall

[deft pewter]

That'll be a relief

[lone dagger]

I do this anyway.

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/nope-brennan-huff-step-brothers-no-not-at-all-gif-16704124883174027526

[sage cedar]

Pretty sure I already do that

[lone dagger]

Jinks

[primal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/jack-nicholson-yes-nod-agree-gif-11928667053720670991

[dawn marlin]

I think ai can be good for code, I use it like a rubber duck, except this duck talks back, and instead of a duck I usually use blahaj

[forest edge]

it's 54F out and we're under a blizzard warning lol

[red rock]

make it a blahAI

[primal laurel]

JoostAI

[iron granite]

JoostNet

[forest edge]

channels like this is why youtube is useful https://youtu.be/XiUOBdEUqjY?si=ldi148Qh7MmRk_Eg

[primal laurel]

what about:

• electricity markets by DTU: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F27gfWndPvw
• convex optimization by Stanford: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV1ru-Inzl4&list=PLoROMvodv4rMJqxxviPa4AmDClvcbHi6h
• linear algebra by MIT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J7DzL2_Na80

[forest edge]

any channel that provides education to someone who wants to absorb it counts. I personally like the more generic universal stuff. like how sewing machines work, their history. https://youtu.be/RQYuyHNLPTQ?si=MDPW4T-3Wd8kU2aL

[deft pewter]

If you want educational stuff and don't mind a bit of reading, this guy makes absolutely fascinating articles on how things work: https://ciechanow.ski/mechanical-watch/

[forest edge]

yea i've seen those

alot of work went into those

[torpid oasis]

i know this is probably the wrong channel but esphome is wifi only right not zigbee?

[iron granite]

The ESPHome Discord can help.

[lone dagger]

Or I could be rude and just tag @neon hawk to answer. 😂
-# I am pretty sure it is wifi-only.

[visual walrus]

Any New Yorkers here do anything interesting with NYC based integrations/stats? Other than Siubway info.

[cinder tartan]

Anyone else feel too dumb to figure out HA? Like, I've got it up and running, with a few integrations and devices, but some integrations are so complicated. I just want to be able to do, what I consider simple stuff like my solar setup on my dashboard, see the status of my Plex Server, see the stats of other pc's on my network. Network traffic etc... but it all seems way to complex to setup

[visual walrus]

chatGPT

[lone dagger]

a) love your profile picture
b) I am a very technical person and HA makes me feel dumb all the time.

[dawn badge]

1 step at a time and enjoy the small wins. if you try and do too much too quickly its easy to get lost

[cinder tartan]

Ok, where do I start? I managed to connect my solar setup but it's only visible on the energy dashboard, not the normal one

[primal laurel]

there is no zigbee on esphome but there are some small initiatives to make it work

[torpid oasis]

i saw some addons

well not addons extensions to esp home

[lone dagger]

That's...where the complications come in, lol. Sounds like this could be an #1284966582375813201 or #1284965988642590891 post, though... It depends on what you want to do here, but it sounds like you want help with the dashboard building itself.

[sage cedar]

Oh ya... simple stuff 🙄

[lone dagger]

Hey, they aren't starting with Tuya!

[cinder tartan]

That's, guess I'll start digging around there

[lone dagger]

Be sure to use the New to HA tag if you post - helps people know you're still learning. 😄

[forest edge]

pretty sure the shelly devices coming out with zigbee are the esp32

so would imagine the whole esp zigbee thing would start taking off

[neon hawk]

wifi and bluetooth only

[torpid oasis]

yea those are esp32's made in bulgaria actually

i know those guys pretty well

[dawn badge]

i am soo looking forward to getting some shelly gen4 stuff. it might be the point where i actually start using zigbee. although justifying getting gen4 stuff when i still have a load of gen3 stuff "in stock" might be hard

[torpid oasis]

I'm a dev, HA is overwhealming at first tbh, so im kinda in a very similar boat as u

but dont worry youll get used to it, do things little by little

[forest edge]

I would really only see use in it if you had a whole lot of shelly devices. otherwise the wifi in even the first gen shellies are solid

[torpid oasis]

just throw away the in-stock items problem solved

[dawn badge]

13 shelly wifi devices on in use currently

[forest edge]

thats a lot of replace lol

[torpid oasis]

do you guys keep your eps/shellys/smarthome HA stuff on a seperate vlan?

[dawn badge]

mix of generations

[dawn badge]

no, but i feel like i should probably do that

[torpid oasis]

is there a way to make ha be a hotspot? i think i woulld benefit alot

[lone dagger]

Not a separate VLAN but a dedicated 2.4 GHz access point.

[torpid oasis]

the device im using has integrated wifi, which would be convenient

[dawn badge]

i think someone made an addon a while ago but no idea if its maintained

[torpid oasis]

https://github.com/mattlongman/Hassio-Access-Point this

[dawn badge]

not sure its the correct approach in any situation though... but as a stopgap problem solver i can see it being a tool in the toolkit

[torpid oasis]

hmm i actually need an AP anyway so might aswell use this device

[forest edge]

yea I got that bookmarked for my barn should I need to replace my current 4g modem in there that already provides me wifi

wish pi stuff was cheaper

[torpid oasis]

why pi?

why not some other board

rk3588 is so much cheaper

and better

(not in the OS support department)

[forest edge]

i was refer to pi hats

[torpid oasis]

ah

[torpid oasis]

you also use 4G as ur home internet? remote area?

[forest edge]

no this is for my barn

but should my current 4g modem ever die in there it would be nice to compress my 4g modem/HA/hotspot into a single pi lol

[primal laurel]

no, that will break stuff

[torpid oasis]

look at the rock 5B+ has nvme/m.2 b key for a 4g modem and good integrated wifi

[forest edge]

how much is that thing

[torpid oasis]

100$? iirc

[torpid oasis]

95usd

INSANE for the price when u compare to rpi

[forest edge]

something is off

they want 298 for that off thier official amazon

yet on alie is under 100 bucks?

[torpid oasis]

ram?

[forest edge]

same model same ram

[torpid oasis]

hmm strange

we dont have amazon so i go with arace.tech

also the voice assistant is pretty quick on it

[torpid oasis]

i dont see an amazon listed on their official page

also since i was on the radxa team at one point, their support is quite good

[forest edge]

may just be some reseller

[dawn badge]

probably. if a comapny doesnt sell on amazon then someone will just sell with a massive markup

[torpid oasis]

i actually see that happen quite alot, local stores' markups here are INSANE

on esps atleast

[forest edge]

ew you gotta install HA on it using docker

although I guess that would be required lol

[torpid oasis]

i can get you an unofficial ha build

[forest edge]

cause you gotta deal with the whole modem ect

[torpid oasis]

but if you want to take advantage of modem

yea you would need an os anyway

[primal laurel]

it doesnt have a modem onboard, need to install an M2 card for that

[forest edge]

yea i'm aware

[torpid oasis]

ps if you do get it consider getting it, consider using BredOS

or armbian but armbian breaks

[forest edge]

I actually already have modem that will fit it

[torpid oasis]

do not use their official debian images cause they are horrible

[forest edge]

those things are getting harder to find for cheaper

it's an interesting thought. they even make a decent passive cooling case for it

curious how well it will endure hot summers and cold winters

[torpid oasis]

kksb cases are also good btw

if you need more endurance check out the Rock 5T

thats certified down to -40C and up to 80C room temp

and that has the same features just different layout

although case for that might be hard to find

Damn michael you are cooking something big...

[forest edge]

looks like the same board so I would imagine the cases would fit either

[torpid oasis]

5t no, different size

[dawn badge]

i am pretty happy with my new setup i have been running for about a week now.
n150 beelink running proxmox and used its extra m.2 slot for a coral tpu to run firgate

[torpid oasis]

its a BIT bigger

[torpid oasis]

does the coral use an m.2 m key>

[primal laurel]

I am still looking for a device which has:

• onboard 4G
• onboard storage
• decent amount of compute / memory
• has a somewhat nice case

[forest edge]

heh that rock 5T is all sold out on allnet

[primal laurel]

it does not seem to exist

[forest edge]

no idea what shipping would be on that

[dawn badge]

you can get them in various connector types

[torpid oasis]

the rock 5* stuff maybe tbh

[torpid oasis]

well not oonboard 4g

[primal laurel]

no dongle, has to be on board

I have a project where I just want to ship this to people in a box and manage it remotely without wifi

[torpid oasis]

that would be hard 99% of the devices have an m.2 b key atleast

[primal laurel]

yeah that's fine

onboard or m2 I meant sorry

[dawn badge]

yeah i could swap the wifi out for a coral e key and have 2 ssds if i wanted

[forest edge]

there is no onboard, m2 or dongle

[torpid oasis]

which device?

[forest edge]

talking about stefan looking for a device that has all that stuff.. there is nothing that has a cell modem onboard as in baked in.. just m2

[dawn badge]

mouser sell the b+n here - https://www.mouser.co.uk/ProductDetail/Coral/G650-04686-01?qs=XeJtXLiO41RGZJDf5bMhyQ%3D%3D

[torpid oasis]

there are some but support is actual garbage

there are some quallcom pi like boards

and the cpu is actually terrible

[forest edge]

I never seen that

i been looking for awhile for something for the barn that was an all in one

[torpid oasis]

what are your thoughs on the rock * stuff

[primal laurel]

I have that one. Still on my shelf lol

almost no boards have generic m2 slots which you can plug something like that in

its all storage

[forest edge]

rock in the past has been a nightmare in terms of support as well as getting stuff running on them. no idea about now. that 5T looks promising for my situation but looks all sold out lol

[primal laurel]

same here. In stock back in june

[torpid oasis]

it still is

[dawn badge]

stock proxxmox uses 6.8 kernel currently. they do build a 6.11 too which you need to install to get access to the igpu on the n150

[torpid oasis]

check this out

[forest edge]

my biggest issue is I think both allnet and arace would require me to maybe spending a chunk on shipping

[torpid oasis]

unreleased board

[forest edge]

and if the thing is going to get back up to like 200 bucks then the pi route is cheaper for me since I already got the pi lol

[torpid oasis]

the brother of the rock 5itx, without the sata controller so the 2nd m.2 is freed up

[forest edge]

active cooling is not an option

for me

do not trust needing a fan in it's use case

[torpid oasis]

its the same chip as the rock 5+ so just removing the fan from that heatsink would keep it cool

i actually do that on my board LOL

[forest edge]

the 5B seems to have the same specs as the pi chips.. which incredibly has held up well for me considering temps fall well below 0C in the barn lol

[dawn badge]

just unplug the fan and stick it in a mineral oil bath

[torpid oasis]

the 5B seems to have the same specs as the pi chips..
Cpu wise or?

Running HAOS

[forest edge]

yea the soc as well as the wifi chip etc.. they all do that 0c-80c spec range

i guess the pi goes to 85c

talking about thier listed spec range

[torpid oasis]

the 5T maybe

[forest edge]

that one is what I would get if i got one

be nice to only have the reolink nvr and a single device in the cabnit that handles the internet, wifi and HA lol

shocked the reolink nvr has held up as well

[torpid oasis]

oh yea right the 5t should also have the hdmi in

[forest edge]

the drive did cut out one winter tho, but shockingly came back to life when it warmed back up

[deft pewter]

It was just hibernating

[torpid oasis]

xD

Its too cold imma go for a little nap

[torpid oasis]

idles haos at 42C

tho i wouldnt trust this would keep it cool in the summer

this is at 22C room temp atm

@forest edge check out the r58x-4g from mekotronics

rk3588 also, more industrial, passive cooling

instead of m.2 b key u have mini pcie

[forest edge]

that price tag

https://tenor.com/view/ricolino-scolari-gif-25352670

[torpid oasis]

oh ya

That heatsink tho

Pretty small

[forest edge]

yea not sure how well that will handle

where my setup lives there is no easy airflow

[torpid oasis]

ill go ask them if they make anything with the rk3588J

maybe a more industrial board

wya from if u dont mind me asking

[forest edge]

the rpi3 i have in there uses one of those aluminum block cases

https://www.amazon.com/KKSB-Rock-5B-Case-Heatsink/dp/B0BZ4LST41

for that 5b

thats what I need

[torpid oasis]

have one

its great

although i use the active cooler

[forest edge]

that should fit the 5T as well I would think. least from the look of the two boards

[torpid oasis]

from radxa

110x82

its bigger

[forest edge]

oh it is

[torpid oasis]

and port layout is diff

[forest edge]

that optional second eth port

[torpid oasis]

the hdmi in on the side

[forest edge]

this is why pi's were so nice lol

didn't have 40 million varations changing sizes lol

within the same class

[torpid oasis]

yea but you gain some you loose some

does the rpi even have an industrial version

i dont think so

[forest edge]

no

[torpid oasis]

No way you can fit the 5t in this

[forest edge]

thats why they made the module

[torpid oasis]

then look at the radxa cm5

and the taco board

tho the m.2 on that cm module is bad

just 1 lane of pcie 3.0 and some pcie 2.0 for wifi

[forest edge]

what are you using that rock for?

[torpid oasis]

nothing

i have like 25+ rk3588 boards

i use none of them but one

[forest edge]

what the hell lol

[torpid oasis]

ps the rk3588 can run steam

https://bredos.org/

check this out

thats why i have so many boards

all the boards here i have

[forest edge]

you work for that project?

[torpid oasis]

im the creator of that project

[forest edge]

oh

nice

[torpid oasis]

im an early adopter of the rk3588

this chip has been a nightmare

[forest edge]

how did you make something stable when rock has had so many issues in the past?

[torpid oasis]

but a powerhouse

[torpid oasis]

cause im not a clown like them

i even joined their team

tried to fix their issues

they didnt like that

also working for a chinese company was crazy

[torpid oasis]

btw bredos (then RebornOS) had support for the rock 5b with full gpu support before radxa did

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7qFLQUgX7E

i was so proud when i made this

[forest edge]

wait I heard of rebornos, that was you?

[torpid oasis]

i was a contributor for that project

i made the arm portion then we split off

so i could chase more opertunities

and opetunities i found

[forest edge]

ah yea reborn, looked at that for a laptop once

that was awhile ago

[torpid oasis]

sure was

man thinking about rebornos brings me back

simpler times

[forest edge]

was like jellyos, reborn.. a few things circulated people were pushing and talking about

whatever that android os was back then.. tried searching for jellyos and that wasn't it. don't remember it name. thought it was jelly something

well if my modem craps out and that 5t ever comes back in stock and I run into issues I know who to ping lol

i only ever messed with arch once but I do have a friend that loves it if I run into too many issues

[torpid oasis]

lmfao

sounds like me

[forest edge]

installed it on a goflex external drive since seagate dumped that project. was fun

[red rock]

You joined who?

[torpid oasis]

Radxa

[red rock]

And they do?

[torpid oasis]

what?

[red rock]

They make that chip?

[forest edge]

rock chip

[torpid oasis]

chip is made by rockchip

they make the devices tho

[forest edge]

I remember when those sbc's came out. great specs and features for really good prices then the software side just ruined it all lol

[torpid oasis]

so true

look at the fydetab duo, great hardware trash software, made BredOS, they hired me, i quit cause they didnt trust me now it only runs FydeOS and BredOS

they couldnt even keep their gh actions running

[forest edge]

there is really only one other person in here that liked the rock stuff @subtle pasture

no idea what run on thiers

[torpid oasis]

rock stuff is solid

[subtle pasture]

Wasn't me, I'm no fan of Rockchip-based SBCs

[forest edge]

really? you brought them up several times

I thought you used them

[subtle pasture]

They literally sent me boards for free to develop a GPIO API, but I had to abandon the project because their kernel was so far behind mainline that there was no point developing for it.

[forest edge]

lol

[torpid oasis]

ahahahha

what do you work on?

[subtle pasture]

And a mainline kernel was always "in the works"

[torpid oasis]

its actually great now

on some devices

mainly the rock 5A/B indiedroid nova and a few others

[subtle pasture]

I'm sure, though every time I dust off a Rock64 or RockPro64 and try to use it for something, it never really works out...

[torpid oasis]

lmao yea that would be correct

pine stuff isnt bad

tho their deal with manjarno is just ass

[subtle pasture]

Like, I'd love to use a RockPro64 as a Google TV streaming box, but no HDCP support.
Oh, or maybe as a platform to test ARM-based gaming? GPUs reguse to work with the PCIe slot.
Ok, maybe a router? Nope, can't run pfSense or OpnSense, and it'd be too slow anyway.

I just can't find a use for the damn things. lol

[torpid oasis]

on BredOS we have steam

:)

rk3588

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, you can get to a desktop and get Steam running with x86 emulation, but then try getting a graphics card working with a RockPro64...

[torpid oasis]

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/947883243691180132/1262888405679865916/4_5814558319104234252.mp4?ex=67c8c67b&is=67c774fb&hm=6d43b08b66fd08c04330592e03633f31014135bca7676b8ebae05d85ebd49b44&

[torpid oasis]

ive done that

[subtle pasture]

Most of them just won't init

[torpid oasis]

a trashy amd R9 270 i think

[subtle pasture]

And it's more than just BAR size limitations, though that prevents ALL intel cards from working with Rockchips.

Old AMD and Nvidia cards are more likely to work because they'll accept smaller BAR spaces, though I always ran into other initilization problems.

[torpid oasis]

idk what to tell you tbh

i dont have any pine rk3588 boards

[subtle pasture]

Oh, and the RockPro64 is missing a protection diode on the PCIe slot, so it'll back-power through a graphics card that's powered by 12v... that causes problems

[torpid oasis]

but i do have the itx 3588j and that worked

[torpid oasis]

LMAO

[subtle pasture]

Had to cut a trace and add a diode to prevent a GTX750 Ti from powering the board backwards

So yeah, careful running cards that have PCIe aux power

[torpid oasis]

i also have a radxa orion o6

runs pretty well

[subtle pasture]

These issues might be specific to the Pine SBCs

[torpid oasis]

most likely except the bar stuff you mentioned

[subtle pasture]

But honestly, these days, I usually just grab a Lenovo M920Q off eBay for $100 and call it a day. Its been hard to justify going the ARM SBC route on a lot of projects.

[torpid oasis]

fair

[forest edge]

those would die in my barn

[primal laurel]

Does anyone know what the longevity of onboard emcc is compared to an sd card? I know an sd card is crap

[torpid oasis]

depends on emmc

[subtle pasture]

I mean, heat is going to be a problem for any machine in a barn