the-water-cooler

[solar zealot]

using a phone while you bake or stuff isnt really the nicest experience

[prisma briar]

And if you are using one for a recipe you don't really want extra crap on the screen cluttering it up or to be switching between apps all the time

Honestly a smartphone app sounds about the absolute worst way to use a scale for cooking

[solar zealot]

a wifi cloud connected app!

so you can weigh your bowls at your friends house ;D

[prisma briar]

Put a phone jack on it and run a cheap-ass phone cable or some other flat cable to a dumb 16x2 screen you can mount somewhere out of the way.

Or make them wireless and battery powered

I started off the day with no opinion on it but now I'm quite convinced a small dedicated screen is the best option for interacting with a kitchen scale.

Make it a small disc with a screen in the middle, you set a bowl on it, once it sees the weight stabilize for two seconds it holds that until it's lifted away and another bowl is sat down

Would still be annoying when adding to a certain weight though

https://www.amazon.com/Home-Hero-Food-Scale-Timer/dp/B0BG37MMKV/

[solar zealot]

this needs ai!
have a bowl recognition and it guesses both the density and fill status

[prisma briar]

Make the scale jiggle the bowl and have it guess it from the sound

[forest edge]

whats the point of the removable screen?

[solar zealot]

you can put it in a place that doesnt get dirty or covered

[prisma briar]

Uh, the whole convo we just had

[forest edge]

i didn't read it

[ocean oar]

I just bought a big chungus scale from a company that sells warehouse equipment.
Needed something that would do 10kg @ 1g precision, which nothing in the "kitchen" department will.

As a bonus, if I ever need to count 400 nuts and bolts by weight, it has that functionality 😄

[solar zealot]

you seem to be pretty hungry for cake

[ocean oar]

Pizza dough

Empty bowl from my stand mixer is a couple of kilograms, wanted to put nearly 4kg of dough in it

[solar zealot]

thats a lot you can ruin with pineapple

[static schooner]

so you need a scale that comments on what you're making based on the ingredients you're weighing?

😋 😋 😋 🤢 🤮

[dire spear]

mm pizza

[solar zealot]

detection for qf would be faulty, always would detect it as pile_of_money

[tidal bronze]

Know how to?

[winged obsidian]

Once you’ve got the density, there’s not much value of weighing versus a measuring cup.

[forest edge]

shouldn't you be boarding your windows and blocking your doors from the wave of south american's unarmed robbers sweeping your area?

[forest edge]

https://youtu.be/L7Qsqfs0vH8?si=0HkyjMdHFCgWofpk

just what I want, to buy a car from a phone company

[last cedar]

There is apparently a raccoon in the image above, but I haven't found it

[young sigil]

I think I see its eyes in the water bowl

[forest edge]

it's that 3d printed water bowl. looks good.

see tom see's it haha

[last cedar]

Nightmare fuel, can't unsee now

[last cedar]

Discuss!

(Not knocking vegans, I am posting purely for the lols)

[forest edge]

big words coming from something that is commonly turned into a handbag or cat toy.

[noble flicker]

I'm curious how to connect the hejhome device to the home assistant

please

[young sigil]

No support in this off-topic channel. Try #integrations-archived (read the channel descriptions).

[static schooner]

I think it's mostly from plant matter

[primal laurel]

so drive electric then, boom roasted

[tidal bronze]

@shy comet it's coming down

[dusky plank]

@clear ferry https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ6aZ_rAzVM

[winged obsidian]

Ethanol and electric, if they’re serious. Personally, I got the leather seats.

[dire spear]

electric is generated by coal mostly which is made of dead animals

ethanol is made form grain which uses nutrients in the soil which are made from dead animals

[winged obsidian]

USA is below 20% coal power. Anyway, I think it’s mostly from plants.

[dire spear]

dont ruin my joke

😛

[sudden forge]

So what you're saying is that they're restricted to bamboo bicycles

https://bamboobicycleclub.org/

But they can't have tires

[dire spear]

bamboo is to keep pandas alive

every bambo bike kills 19 pandas

being a "true" vegan is somewhat impossible really.

[sudden forge]

ultimately folk all have different reasons/meanings to their veggie/veganism

[dire spear]

my friend had a brooks saddle on his bike and was so prod of the hipster cred... then i pointed it out to him. "you know thats made form a cow right?"

[sudden forge]

Or for me: I had pork earlier. So errm, very good vegan yes yes

(I am not a veggie or vegan)

[dire spear]

yes. you pick your battles for being a vegan

veggie is a different topic

veggie has a logic to it

rather, a consistency

dont kill animal. simple enough

[sudden forge]

will say though. much as I love a good bit of beef. Some of the plant burgers around these days are pretty good in their own right

[dire spear]

i hate beef anyway

mostly each chicken, pork for meat

and shrimps if they count

[sudden forge]

see I'm opposite. Not a fan of chicken

I will eat it in a pinch, but really not a fan

[dire spear]

yer missing out on portuguese style chicken. mmm

haha

actually, thats my lunch. chicken, bacon, and some form of cream pasta

hmm

ooh, no. rice, peas, crumbled bacon and chicken

mmmmm

haha

[sudden forge]

One minor issue I have, a lot of pure vegan diets rely heavily on nuts. Useful. Allergic.

[dire spear]

yes. they use cashews a lot

also expensive

[sudden forge]

would certainly restrict options a bit

[dire spear]

i dont understan nut alergy people... peanuts are peas, cashews are fruit seeds, why would you be alergic to both?

hehe

[sudden forge]

I dont follow the logic either

but I know the physical effects 😛

[dire spear]

hehe

[sudden forge]

nah I am lucky, no anaphylaxis

still a deeply unpleasant experience with what does happen. But not gonna die.

[dire spear]

now i wait for pcb's

[prisma briar]

Are you running a wire out for every button?

[dire spear]

in this case yes.

i will eventually do a V2 which will have a matrix, the charger on the board which makes room for a bigger battery, and a few other features

maybe a SNES variant, but there are issues with that (too thin)

i could also instead of a matrix do what the nes has which is a shift register

decided to start simple though

i also want v2 to have an input for player 2.

(right now p2 would need a usb controller)

eep

hehe

[prisma briar]

You could just buy the NSO NES controllers too

https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/nintendo-entertainment-system-controllers/

Can get them on eBay with a small markup if you don't have an NSO subscription

Or I could invite you to my family plan

Though their charging method is a bit annoying

They have SNES ones too
https://www.nintendo.com/us/store/products/super-nintendo-entertainment-system-controller/

[dire spear]

O_o

[solar zealot]

you need to buy a subscription to buy a product?

isnt that just paymentception

[dire spear]

im not sure those worth with retropie. need to check

i know some of the playstation ones do

player 2 will have some lag with wireless as well of course. but i dont think this is a competitive gaming rig

:p

ah. bluetooth and only work with nintendo stuff it seems

bah

[prisma briar]

They work with PCs

Never tried on a retropie

I use them on original consoles with bluetooth adapters

They can be a bit wonky having more than one connected to the same bluetooth adapter though

Some weird Nintendo crap.

[dire spear]

i read up. they do work with retropie but they wont automatically connect on boot

but, maybe we can figure out how to fix that

also with my case being aluminium, it will block the native bluetooth.

[dire spear]

hehe

that wont get me sued will it?

[crisp oriole]

What does it take to write LLM prompt engineer on your linkedin page.

[primal laurel]

A certain lack of real skills

[crisp oriole]

more skills than the average invuencer

[primal laurel]

No

[crisp oriole]

Well I just made a prompt for my anwsering machine and it takes some clear thinking

improved it. *

[solar zealot]

you are only entitled to add this to your linkedin if you also are a blockchain entrepreneur and nft enthusiast

crypto something, sparkle k8s, something something ai on the edge

[crisp oriole]

LOL. blockchain currency are bad for the enviroment

[solar zealot]

no they are great, it kills humans

[crisp oriole]

to slowly kills humans like boiling frogs.

or is that what you want.

[primal laurel]

There is no such thing as a prompt engineer

[crisp oriole]

you're just jealous. you cant make up a prompt for your voicemail system.

[primal laurel]

Such skill

[solar zealot]

its worth upwards of 250k a year i heard

[primal laurel]

250k rupees

[solar zealot]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=izQKJJ9tyZc

[forest edge]

it sure is. https://cdn.mos.cms.futurecdn.net/HZUmCWNurDbfhcKNMdVyia.jpg

[forest edge]

serious 80's vibe with this park https://youtu.be/qFuPpHTtGrE?si=tu449Xnf5Qt7DGdS

[prisma briar]

Does whoever is in charge of the automations page in HA hate us?

Did we do something wrong?

This new UI is really awful

Why are things that used to be one or two clicks away buried under 4 layers of confusing menus

[iron granite]

You can disable that

[glacial knot]

oh right, I reverted to 2024.02. I was super confused, which new layout? D:

[prisma briar]

I'm still on 2024.2.5, I haven't made an automation in a while though.

I don't know when it was added

[low harness]

Whew. That was a journey and a half.
For anyone playing along at home, the solution was to download the Windows11 Install Media Creation Tool, have that download the full win11 23h2 installation and make an .iso from that, mount that iso and then install the update that way.

[glacial knot]

that's a complicated way to install gentoo

[prisma briar]

What I don't get is why has the automations page been redone a couple times in the last year but there's still no folders or tags available

[young sigil]

Lose the training wheels and write your automations in YAML. Then you can organise them however you wish.

[prisma briar]

If I wanted to waste time googling for field names and writing YAML I wouldn't be using a GUI.

[primal laurel]

the automation UI is far superior to writing yaml

[glacial knot]

isn't there a jsonschema for them? Then you can just have vscode autocomplete it for you

[prisma briar]

Yea, 'stick to the yaml' misses half the point of HA. If not for the GUI I wouldn't be here, lol. I'd still be doing my own thing.

[young sigil]

VSCode has an HA extension with auto complete.

[glacial knot]

node based editor could be fun though

[primal laurel]

agreed, its a dumb response

[glacial knot]

with how much services learned to have in/out

[young sigil]

Though auto-complete is a PITA most of the time. I end up with duplicates like -platform: state -platform: state most of the time

[glacial knot]

yea, silly things like that happen too often :/

[prisma briar]

Maybe somebody will make vscode as an addon with intellisense already set up for HA

[glacial knot]

I've recently really had issues with having things like functionName()() in vscode 😦

shouldn't be too hard. There's way to just host it for browser consumption

[prisma briar]

I'm not going to, but that does sound like something somebody would make.

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/home-assistant-community-add-on-visual-studio-code/107863

[glacial knot]

I don't run HAOS, so 🤷

[prisma briar]

I have HAOS running in a VM, I've yet to encounter anything I wanted to do that that didn't do.

[primal laurel]

its a good combo. Running a full VM does have quite some overhead, but on my nas thats not really a problem

[prisma briar]

I have pfSense and HA in VMs and Frigate/my dashboard monitors along with another dozen random services running in containers on a 5700g for mine.

[prisma briar]

Even then it's not doing entity names.

I also feel using vscode is a bad fix when the problem is 'needs a sortable tag'

[prisma briar]

I have grafana and influx and vlc and esphome and whisper/piper/openwakeword installed in HA as addons, they're all used HA-exclusively and I like them being contained in their own VM with HAOS.

Though I might move whisper to a container on the host so I can use my GPU for it. Not sure if the apu on a 5700g would be worthwhile for that.

[glacial knot]

I run a k8s cluster either way
I could experiment with HAOS in kubevirt
But ehhh

Do they even have amd support for whisper? Oder is it one of the vids only things?

[prisma briar]

I'm running it cpu side right now and it's just a little slow for what I'd like

But right now the llm I'm using is huge and slow too so

[primal laurel]

What are you doing up there?

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/mission-impossible-tom-cruise-breaking-in-break-in-im-in-gif-15687772

Rehearsing for The Mission

Impossible

[primal laurel]

https://tenor.com/view/pls-send-help-help-me-sos-dog-the-pet-collective-gif-14154125

[last cedar]

I needed a better view, but I just got stuck :/

[orchid rose]

https://tenor.com/view/jean-claude-van-damme-split-volvo-trucks-gif-15143582

[primal laurel]

Trying to spot the best garbage cans in the neighbourhood I bet

[iron granite]

Spider Coon, Spider Coon

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/homer-simpson-simpsons-spiderpig-whatever-does-gif-22373180

[forest edge]

the videos showcasing people going through the trouble of swapping out old device barrel jacks etc to use a usb c instead

[winged obsidian]

$0.37 adapter on AliExpress, probably

[hollow glacier]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-movie-gif-14288788

[prisma briar]

I've done that for a couple things.

It's convenient.

Did it with a GBA SP, did it with a flashlight, a portable heated mug I have, and something else I can't recall right now

The last two were because they were damaged, the GBA was because the GBA chargers are annoyingly short

[finite atlas]

I did the usb-c mod with a gba-sp aswell, nearly killed the mainboard in that process.

[dire spear]

dont they have different pin outs/footprints/

[prisma briar]

They make adapter boards

PCBs with half through-holes on the sides to solder to the gba and a usb-c port already on top

[last cedar]

I need the competitive edge

[prisma briar]

I had to patch a couple pads on mine

I ripped like 3 traces up removing the original port, they were like wet paper

idk what they did or if it was because it was so old but those traces lifted so easily

But I only ripped like 2-3mm off of all of them so they bodged easily

The GBA I have had chemical damage on the shell when I got ahold of it so idk if that's related

The shell just kinda crumbled

[forest edge]

https://youtu.be/RJZbCAFebr8?si=FeGoboX6X7Eb5kZI

I didn't even know that was a thing! I would so have one as a pet

[glacial knot]

Uhh, nice. One of the features I was missing in my usage is coming for paperless-ngx https://github.com/paperless-ngx/paperless-ngx/pull/6094

[prisma briar]

I got ROCm/whisper working on my 5700g's integrated gpu.

It appears to be rather pointless though, it's like 10% faster than doing it on cpu

Not even, sometimes it's like 30% slower.

Yea that was pointless

[glacial knot]

nice. and bummer D:

[prisma briar]

It's also really unstable and keeps crashing the gpu requiring a reboot to resolve

Which since this is on my pfSense box, I think I'm done playing with this.

[forest edge]

@tidal bronze think I found where i want to move to. https://youtu.be/X2wLMp67Cls?si=Mpv7eN0kZ_lrKJPM

pop of 33 people. sounds just perfect

[primal laurel]

youll have to pay me to eat the crap from mcdonalds

[snow hedge]

Is anyone else starting to get unreasonably angry at cloud products? I feel like it's planned obsolescence, and that you pay extra for it. I'm shopping for a new fridge/freezer atm and all of the top options are cloud only so I refuse to buy them.

and it's frustrating because I love tech, I want the fancy fridge freezer with variable temperature zones and that you can tap on the glass to see inside, like, it's cool. But not when it has forced cloud. We're getting aircon too and that's cloud by default and I have to build my own board to fix it

[low harness]

That's absolutely true. It's a way to make you keep paying for the product after purchase or lock you into their "ecosystem".

BUT it is also very conventient for most people.

[glacial knot]

one can only hope that the EU forces more interoperability and ownership

[low harness]

Most People ™️ don't want to set up a server for local control. They want to just install an app on their phone and have it work even off the network.
But then again Most People ™️ don't need to ever connect to their freezer either. That's a set-and-forget thing.

[primal laurel]

big tech wants to force you into their ecosystem so you become so dependent on it that moving to a different manufacturer will seem like too much effort and so you stay 'loyal'

[low harness]

Learning from Apple

[primal laurel]

ofcourse apple and google are by far the worst examples of this

[glacial knot]

I wouldn't mind being able to see the insides of my fridge on my phone while at the grocery store

but I also don't need that

[glacial knot]

ye, there's a reason the products are generally cloud enabled. Not just for the milking.

[snow hedge]

Indeed, it's horrible, I also think that good easy to use products can be made local. What's to stop the fridge from being Zigbee? works out of the box with all the popular stuff like Amazon echo, just job done. I think they should follow standards or at least give some way for the product to function when they drop support

[glacial knot]

which company commonly included in "big tech" sells fridges? o.0

[snow hedge]

Samsung, LG

[glacial knot]

Neither are commonly included in big tech. Though Samsung probably should

FWIW, I'm mostly on building products that are defensive against local access like that
though they are for B2B, and they are generally actually like the security we can provide by locking it down.

And want to have a support relationship either way, so they don't really care if we bill them 20€ for support, or 15€ for support and 5€ for cloud^^

[snow hedge]

For me, I feel that any product that relies on cloud integration has an unknown future expiry date. The company will, at some point, stop supporting it, and then features that you paid for will be gone with basically no path for repair or restoration of those features. So I refuse to buy such products

[forest edge]

don't ever buy a "smart" fridge or freezer. they are nothing but headaches and will be a fault of a "bad" appliance before the core of what makes those things work fail

[unborn mist]

I have an underground propane tank that I want to track. Long term, I plan to head down the path of connecting a meter directly to the gauge. Short term, I want something to remind me to check the gauge and input a value so I can track it over time. My ideal scenario is that I receive an email or mobile notification asking me for the current fill%. I then enter a number and that number is stored somewhere in a database or spreadsheet that I can see how it is changing over time. Any ideas?

I'm trying to get rid of as much friction as possible so I will actually do it.

[glacial knot]

Hmm, I wonder if I can use a power sensing smart socket on my scanner to figure out when it's scanning and kick off automations based on that 😂

[primal laurel]

you can use an input number and write to that using a service called from an automation. #automations-archived can help with that, there is no support in this channel

[primal laurel]

I do something similar with my washing machine

And you can do more general pattern recognition with a bit of machine learning

Which I did for my coffee machine lol

[unborn mist]

Thanks for the input. I was trying to be broad in my question since HA might not be the best answer for what I am trying to do. Wasn't sure if I am missing some easy Google Sheets add on or something that will get it done.

[primal laurel]

I dont see why you would need google sheets

[clear ferry]

I'm taking a wild gander that we have the same ISP in the office that I have at home

I have 5.4ms latency to a switch in the office

[dire spear]

google reads this discord.... youtube just served me an LTT video on this mod

[runic cape]

I am already using my phone, no matter what, cause the recipe is on there, and so are the timers

[glacial knot]

I know of at least one googler reading this chat 😂

[clear ferry]

I've told youtube to feck off with the LTT suggestions

let's see how long it lasts

[dusky plank]

I've heard length(feckoff) is defined < 20 so 19 more feck offs

[clear ferry]

if it is <20 it would be 20 more

you are thinking about =<

[dusky plank]

feck off ?

can't find anything on the topic anymore :/

but my don't recommend button doesn't do anything anymore I believe

[prisma briar]

I definitely have more than 20 channels blocked on Youtube, probably between LTT and Simon Whistler alone

[ocean oar]

I don't believe that the thumbs-down button does anything

Youtube music just will not get the hint that I do not want to listen to Bruno Mars. At this point must have hit the feckoff button on 50 or more songs

[glacial knot]

How dare you not follow the trend set by the majority?
How will the pure ML models cope? D:

[primal laurel]

oh linkedin is so much worse. The suggested posts especially

[blazing musk]

Pretty sure at this point the algorithms are just payola by another name.

At one point that was a scandal. Now it's business as usual

[static schooner]

It's the matter-of-fact-ness of that that makes it

What did you do last week? Well, this happened...

[blazing musk]

"happened"

[primal laurel]

Now that's what I want to see under suggested posts

[dire spear]

i did that with mr beast... it replaced it with religion videos.... (nothing against mr beast, but i dnever clicked on in my life so why are you making half my feed page that)

[prisma briar]

I used to get a ton of MrBest too

[tidal bronze]

Don't like middle earth anymore?

[prisma briar]

Here's a better video on that city

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONXvpPaTLXw

tl;dr: A town was made for monitoring the USSR during the cold war, after 1991 it basically died overnight

On the closest island off Alaska to the USSR

And now some private company owns it all and tries to bring in tourists

[static schooner]

I guess that's what the 33 remaining people support 🙂

[prisma briar]

More or less, yea. Most of the city was crumbling.

[static schooner]

and they apparently don't eat McDonald's

[prisma briar]

When they left they just left

[ocean oar]

There's a three-scoops-of-BS "documentary" on Netflix called "Pirate Gold of Adak Island" which if you ignore the manufactured drama and fruity nonsense has a reasonable amount of history of the area

[forest edge]

don't think Aleutian Outfitters owns it. they just bought some of the abandoned buildings and run the tourist aspect

good video tho

[primal laurel]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/25/texas-name-change-election-candidate

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/none-of-the-above-gif-10469416

Simpsons...err... Richard Pryor did it!

[forest edge]

really?

people are going to end up not even knowing how to talk to one another without ai assistance

[static schooner]

like some high-tech Cyrano de Bergerac

[forest edge]

https://tenor.com/view/idiocracy-idiocracy-costco-costco-welcome-to-costco-costco-i-love-you-gif-14458905082678662672

[last cedar]

Hahaha

[forest edge]

think i need to increase my camera resolution. frigate can't detect this pesky racoon in my back yard

[forest edge]

Just think tomorrow's doctors will likely float through schooling in such fashion.. exciting times!

[low harness]

I've been partying with medicine students before AI. I'm worried enough already...

[forest edge]

maybe we will get lucky and just skip to this https://youtu.be/3M4WNh_82BA?si=XryFkRr2xEnYcH4o

[primal laurel]

It's easy to weed out the cheaters

[forest edge]

you mean after enough people die and they catch on?

[primal laurel]

no, already during their education

[forest edge]

no idea what they actually have to do but I have 0 doubts that if there is an easy way some are going to take it

[primal laurel]

like the people who think ai is implemented as a bunch of if/else statements lol

[clear ferry]

Well, to some extent it probably could be, not very dynamic though

[primal laurel]

the model doesnt have any if else statements. What ever infra they built around it could have, but not related to the AI itself

[clear ferry]

But a lot of people also think AI is incredible and has a mind of its own

My 6400 GPU cluster should be online in about a month now

Then to deploy two more of them

[primal laurel]

I will need a few for my thesis, please reserve

I have a 100 core epyc now

[clear ferry]

So a single socket system then

I'm still waiting for the confirmation about the superspine upgrade, just 8192+4096 cables plus 64 new switches and 12k trancievers

HPC go brrrrrrrrrr

[primal laurel]

yeah its sitting under a desk

we have a HPC cluster as well that they just built, I have no clue what the specs are

must be peanuts for @clear ferry

[clear ferry]

Quite impressive specs for 2001

Except for the number of GPUs I actually have more cores and memory in my garage, albeit older generations

[primal laurel]

lol

physics has better specs than us, not fair

[glacial knot]

One of those nodes actually looks usable 😂

[clear ferry]

The last one yes

Still pretty small in terms of cores and memory, might actually be limited by the amount of memory unless it has all nvme

I rolled out 8 x 8A100s recently, and they had 128 cores and 2TB each

[primal laurel]

seems like mechE has had an upgrade

[clear ferry]

No GPUs, older workloads I guess

I still know a company running a HPC load on windows, with infiniband and scheduler

Application is from the late 90s I believe

[primal laurel]

no clue what any of this means but FYI

Operating System: Rocky Linux 8 (100% bug-for-bug compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux®)
Cluster Management: TrinityX
User Management: LDAP with TU/e Active Directory for Authentication
Module system: Lmod
Software build system: EasyBuild
Remote web access: Open Ondemand

[clear ferry]

Only thing that matters is trinityx

Never seen anyone use that

[primal laurel]

interesting

[forest edge]

shit looks like something out of a movie. crazy https://youtu.be/sweWMxpTwKg?si=p1h9Em_N1u-ZsAAG

[clear ferry]

I've actually driven across that bridge

[forest edge]

here is the whole clip. can actually see the ship strike the pier 5 mins in. https://youtu.be/SDceU9x58vc?si=mDYUGqYAsESBA4mi

the way the bridged collapse is unreal

[solar zealot]

I am more scared about the comments that think this is an issue with the bridge

[forest edge]

this will prompt some drastic change to how the piers are protected. there is no doubt

[solar zealot]

They will invent more concrete concrete, as opposed to the currently used ambiguous concrete

[forest edge]

people freak.. someone see's $$ and the next thing you know tax payers are paying out the ass for some "clever" design that in theory will prevent future incidents like this from happening and those designs will cost an arm and leg

like canadian sheds that have fancy recessed lighting. over priced for what needs to be done

[solar zealot]

Reminds me of that one bridge in India which collapsed multiple times

[forest edge]

this will be closer to that scene where those workers watched that kaiju break through the massive wall they just built in seconds

[primal laurel]

those supports do look flimsy as hell

[forest edge]

https://www.youtube.com/live/2OiZXEJNjoY?si=kpPU88WtlBasnk11

that ship dwarfs that bridge lol

[solar zealot]

Those boats plow through anything, might as well not make it more expensive as needed

If it's not a boat, someone on a mobility scooter will get em

[primal laurel]

just odd to see it doesnt have any protection at all

[forest edge]

not much you can do.

that bridge even had what looks like power line markers placed on the same side that the ship had to miss prior to striking the pier

[primal laurel]

there's a lot you can do

[forest edge]

if only money grew on trees

[primal laurel]

seems like top part of the ship is what hits the struts first

that was easily preventable

[forest edge]

it all was preventable if the captain of that ship didn't fuck up

[primal laurel]

it's going at snail's pace

[forest edge]

those things are like 1300ft in water.. they take a whole lot of space to maneuver but they had plenty to set themselves straight but rather than playing it safe they probably "hoped" it was going to work out

[primal laurel]

big fat piece of concrete

my hometown went all in, but much smaller ofcourse

[forest edge]

thats like what? 8 lanes? and maybe only half the span across water lol

don't think bridge is high enough off the water to accommodate cargo ships either

[primal laurel]

yeah, well obviously you could scale it up

its 12 lanes

but I dont think the bridge ever stood a chance lol

[forest edge]

no. pretty much king kong sitting on your house

[lusty mirage]

qq, i`m get core update 2024.3.3, but Drag and drop not work, my UI dosnt changed

[gleaming crater]

You know those bridge designs are consisdered "fracture critical" and will collapse with only a single point of damage

[clever mortar]

#frontend-archived can help, this is the HA free channel 😉

[gleaming crater]

The whole bridge is under tension, breaking a single link causes those kinds of bridges to literally tear themselves apart

[clear ferry]

It's..
Like it's their whole design

[primal laurel]

built to fail

galaxy brain engineers

[gleaming crater]

There is a reason new bridges are all suspension bridges

[solar zealot]

They probably were using tuya relays on the boat

[clear ferry]

Or running haos

https://tenor.com/view/computer-crash-furious-spongebob-patrick-star-homeoffice-gif-20195103

[solar zealot]

boatassistant

[clear ferry]

Running off sd

With a phone charger power supply

[solar zealot]

raspberry pi2

[clear ferry]

That's optimistic

Pi zero

[sudden forge]

Apparently the boat had put out mayday warnings

And so additional traffic had already been stopped entering the bridge

[orchid rose]

Yikes, why didn't they pull the rest of the workers...

[sudden forge]

Probably in process of doing so

As it is they refined 7 missing down to 6 because one was found. Not to make light of it but maybe that one ran faster

[sudden forge]

Unironically if I lived on a houseboat, that'd have to be the hostname for my HA setup

What's not clear right now is I've seen one statement that only 2 people were plucked from water, another that a few vehicles definitely went in, another that people from vehicles are accounted for and another that 20 were rescued. It's a tad confusing what's going on

But it'll probably take quite some time to pick through all that

[static schooner]

You could definitely see the traffic dissipate when you watch the longer video above

It was pretty busy a few mins before

Quite the slow motion disaster

[sudden forge]

Big ship

They carry a lot of momentum

[solar zealot]

Interesting that they still had people working on it

[sudden forge]

Apparently it had lost propulsion

But with a boat, that's kinda what you use to slow down

Like I know someone above suggested slapping some concrete around the bridge pillars, the reason they don't is simple. There's footage out there of what happens when ships that big slam into a dock. The concrete isn't winning.

The ship certainly doesn't win either. Mutually assured destruction.

[static schooner]

F'in physics

[solar zealot]

The concrete industry will tell you that more concrete would help! They just need the check to fill up the whole channel and that won't happen ever again

also why didn't the bridge have a gun???

[orchid rose]

If the current goes that way it's not even going to slow down

[sudden forge]

Even in stationary water, using propulsion to slow itself down takes maaaaaaany miles

[orchid rose]

Yup it's wild how efficient moving on water is

[primal laurel]

A dock is not meant to protect bridge pillars

I was just surprised this bridge had no protection at all

Which is very different from bridges here

[solar zealot]

They easily carve through meters of that stuff

[primal laurel]

At the speed that thing was going, looked more like it kissed it

[solar zealot]

It's 100+kT of mass

It's a hell of a lot of energy, at any speed

[sudden forge]

Hence previous statements on they need miles to decelerate properly

In nautical terms that thing was doing 90 in a 30 zone

[static schooner]

And it was increasing in speed

[sudden forge]

8 knots apparently at time of impact, not anywhere near its top speed, but ya think about how much it weighs, it'll take more than just a tire hanging off the edge of a dock

[static schooner]

Was ~3 when the tugs let go

So says the news

[sudden forge]

I've got 7.3-8.6 estimates according to some news sites here

[prisma briar]

I'm sure they'll figure out for failure analysis but I don't think the end result between those two extremes is much different

[sudden forge]

Bridges have always been fragile structures, hard to build redundancy into them, they have that problem of more structure thrown at strengthening them is more shit for them to hold

Ships can demolish a concrete dock

As far as we can tell so far, the ship did suffer onboard mechanical and electrical failures

A very very unfortunate accident

And no doubt there'll be further reviews into whether this sorta thing can be prevented in future

[iron granite]

Redundancy is easy, just building a second bridge nearby. Still doesn't help the poor ones on the collapsing bridge.

[sudden forge]

Apparently no major injuries on the ship

Everyone accounted for

[sudden forge]

Ah I see the discrepancy, I didn't realise the thing was leaving, so yeah, 3 knots when tugs released and accelerating to leave port

[static schooner]

At least the ship is still afloat. Hopefully it stays that way

Part of the bridge is sitting on it

[sudden forge]

Yeah. Gonna be an awkward recovery

And of course knock on economic impact: blocking the port

[static schooner]

Looks hairy to drive around it

[sudden forge]

Might not be deep enough outside of that main channel anyway

[orchid rose]

The type of impact structures that Stefan linked earlier aren't necessarily designed to withstand the impact but to push the ship off from hitting the pier itself. Redirecting the energy wouldn't require anywhere near as much force

[sudden forge]

It's "only" 15m deep there

Can see in one of the videos BBC uploaded the ship approaching the bridge, lights going out, then they come back on and the thing kicks out some smoke

And impact

Being realistic, probably not much hope of the 6 missing turning up alive

[solar zealot]

Unfortunate but a surprisingly good outcome tbh

[sudden forge]

Yeah, if there was no warning at all or it was a busier daytime occasion or something

Could have been so much worse than it is

[static schooner]

They supposedly dragged their anchor for a bit. I wonder if it had any impact at all

[forest edge]

https://youtu.be/JebyNOvJmCM?si=P6F7V2qRpRfSD3yQ

thats why it slowed down before collision

I think the anchor is why it steered right into the pier

cause that sucker cut hard

[prisma briar]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZbUXewlQDk Longer video, not zoomed in

[static schooner]

I saw a time lapse and it was chilling to see a car race across the bridge 'just' before the collapse

[sudden forge]

That driver probably needs a good cleaning of their seating and pants

[bright cave]

They said people were missing but I didn't see any cars on the bridge. Unless maybe some couldn't be seen from that angle, maybe going the other way. Or maybe there's also foot traffic, though it was pretty late I believe

[glacial knot]

They located a couple cars that sank via infrared cameras

[clear ferry]

I saw a lot of lights from workers cars on top of the bridge at least

Good thing it was probably closed for regular traffic

[dire spear]

46 people dead. wow.

[orchid rose]

Oof that many? I was hoping it was closer to six or so that was mentioned earlier 😦

[dire spear]

2 unaccounted for

thats the latest

[orchid rose]

Where's the 46 figure from then?

[dire spear]

46 dead, 2 missing i mean

implying they have recovered 46 bodies

hm. can no longer find the article saying 46. maybe it was a typo

[forest edge]

where are you pulling this number from? your butt?

so far the count is 8. two have been rescued and 6 are still missing

[dire spear]

yeah

i think the 46 i saw was an article comparing other bridge disasters. i hate the way news is presented.

[forest edge]

think you got it from this lol https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Summer_Street_Bridge_disaster

[dire spear]

nope. it was ohio

https://www.dispatch.com/story/news/2024/03/26/baltimore-francis-scott-key-bridge-collapse-recalls-ohio-bridge-collapses/73103784007/

every ones gotta make a garbage story about their own bridges to get clicks

when the article is presented on google is says key bridge.. and 46 dead

[ocean oar]

Google definitely... knows stuff

Last night's gem, while reminding myself about fibre optic transceivers

[solar zealot]

Yea you don't want to starve or over feed the fiber

[orchid rose]

Google search is so done. It won't be too long before the AI systems make it completely obsolete

You can't find anything with it these days without using modifiers like "site:" etc or google scholar instead

SEO was already bad enough, but when you combine that with AI produced crap articles that get boosted to the top it's over man

[ocean oar]

Even site: is cooked. So many useless websites polluting your results because they bought a .yourcountry domain.

Pinterest can be >50% of my search results some times, even though it brings absolutely nothing to the table

[dusky plank]

bing was good for some time, now its just a replica of google

I like to use yandex from time to time

[solar zealot]

Good thing most "search engines" are just Google in disguise

[static schooner]

Bing now has OpenAI sauce

you might find it delicious or it might kill you

[ocean oar]

If your goal is to avoid made-up bullshit, relying on ChatGPT might not be your best move

[orchid rose]

It's a risk I'm willing to take

Bing or copilot or whatever they branded it these days is just incredible for some stuff. Saves a bunch of time if you can trust what it makes up lol

[static schooner]

Supposedly they're applying some sort of fact checking on top of the normal AI response

[orchid rose]

It's much better than ChatGPT (3.5 is the free one?) and provides sources so you can double check

For now you have to manually check but it's not far-off from being reliable from my experience

[clear ferry]

I'm terrified by the people who will be relying on AI to fix their code or help them write commands in a cli

Thankfully my wife is sane enough to deny users to use copilot to access to their internal code

AI that gives you recommendation by running locally only, sure, learning by reading your internal code and sending it off site, yeah I'm gonna pass

[glacial knot]

🤷 I'll give my corp code to our corp overlords

[clear ferry]

Even better, it learns by reading rubbish code

And gives rubbish advice

Aka reading my code

[orchid rose]

Okay grandpa

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/simpsons-grandpa-simpson-fist-shake-fist-mad-gif-16723406855720551116

[clear ferry]

But.... I am the cloud

[solar zealot]

better?

[primal laurel]

I always wonder why companies are so hellbend on protection their shitty code

[primal laurel]

Like what stuff?

I let it proofread some things I wrote to correct grammar and stuff. It is a language model after all, that's what it's good at

But I don't trust it with anything content related

[solar zealot]

business™️ secrets™️

[prisma briar]

mixtral + ollama + vscode continue plugin is what I'm using, it's all self-hosted.

It's not GPT quality but it's good enough to ask questions to and to ask to summarize files

It can also auto-comment and auto-write code, but the auto-written code in my experience is mostly useless

Also 24GB VRAM is about the minimal to make it usable

But I imagine you have access to more

[prisma briar]

I get really good results out of mixtral with a 32k context size but I also only get like two tokens a second off of a 4090 with it

Which means commenting a full file is not the fastest, but it can do it

I'm getting really tempted to get another GPU for my office pc and take it's 3090ti out and put it in my vr pc with the 4090 so I can get 48gb vram but I also really don't want to

[glacial knot]

huh? is there some fancy SLI trick that makes VRAM additive?

[prisma briar]

You can just add the vram together if they're on the same system and they'll share over the pci-e bus

I think the higher end cards get advantage from nv-link but I only have one card with that and I'm not buying another

They're not making huge 1TB VRAM GPUs to do training on, they're clustering a bunch of smaller cards.

pci-e gen 4 x16 is ~32GBPS, the vram on a 4090 at full power is ~21GBPS. There's a latency hit but no bandwidth hit.

[glacial knot]

I can ask my ML-infra colleagues, but looking around a bit, that's not how it works 🤷
I've also not seen insane memory requirements for training tasks, but insane hour requirements
which then translate to memory, since the model is replicated to tons of GPUs and thus your 24GB model now needs 240GB, but also simply runs on 10 GPUs at once

[prisma briar]

You can ask them, that's definitely how it works.

You only get one 4090 of compute but you can get the vram from both

You could just google it instead of asking them, too.

[glacial knot]

I did google, and the only method that showed combining them uses both computes and transfers part of the data inference is run on, not the model weights

[prisma briar]

https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/1607

Here's where it was added to llama.cpp last May

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/142rm0m/llamacpp_multi_gpu_support_has_been_merged/ Reddit thread

https://medium.com/@yash9439/run-any-llm-on-distributed-multiple-gpus-locally-using-llama-cpp-2ff478a0dc3c Article on it

https://github.com/meta-llama/llama-recipes/blob/main/docs/multi_gpu.md Page on multi-gpu training

https://github.com/ollama/ollama/blob/913306f4fdc264c76fdd36f40298376680973ecd/docs/gpu.md?plain=1#L34 Page on ollama configuration going over multi gpu configuration

Yea, looks like nvlink does decrease latency significantly but isn't required

Anyways, LLMs are basically built on the back of multi-gpu compute/vram. There's no way to train an LLM from scratch on a current single GPU.

At least not given our lifespans

Looks like there's methods to distribute parts of the compute now too

But not all of it

[glacial knot]

the first link at least confirms my view of things, let's read some more

yea, nothing suggests that this uses all GPU's memory as single memory space for a compute GPU
But that it splits the weights across GPUs and copies data around between them

[prisma briar]

I don't know how it confirms what you're saying, there's people in the comments happy that they can now run larger models on gpu.

[glacial knot]

At a quite huge performance loss. The initial PR you linked statese 70% better performance at 4times theoretical compute

[prisma briar]

https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/1607#issuecomment-1565428195 Literally the top comment thanks him for adding the ability to use more VRAM

https://github.com/ggerganov/llama.cpp/pull/1607#issuecomment-1565428195 It was the difference between this guy running a model or not

https://old.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/142rm0m/llamacpp_multi_gpu_support_has_been_merged/jn8fqf9/ Reddit comment confirming it

https://www.reddit.com/r/LocalLLaMA/comments/15zx322/ideal_setup_for_dual_4090/jxo0zl6/ Guy explaining it more

It doesn't replicate the data across each gpu

Yea, the transfers add latency and therefore slow it down compared to running a model that fits on one card but a lot of models just don't fit on one card

But right now I'm sharing system ram with my gpu to use it and that's even slower

Though I am seeing reports that a 3090 and 4090 can't work together which might kill my plan

[glacial knot]

You know, you could try and understand what I'm telling you

[prisma briar]

You said, quoting, "and thus your 24GB model now needs 240GB" which is false.

[glacial knot]

[04:56]ongy: I did google, and the only method that showed combining them uses both computes and transfers part of the data inference is run on, not the model weights

which is also what I re-iterated later on.
But it's not something you'd do usually. As it's a nasty performance hit

[prisma briar]

What do you think people are running these 60-100GB models on? Either multi-gpu setups like this, or just sharing system ram.

There's not exactly a lot of options for consumers to get high vram gpus

[glacial knot]

I frankly don't care about consumer ML

[prisma briar]

Then you're not even having the same conversation I'm having.

[glacial knot]

🤷 if you want to tell me that two horses are as good as a car because you cannot afford the car

[prisma briar]

Never said they were the best money could buy, just said they'd be better than sharing system ram.

But, hey, reading is hard.

[glacial knot]

no, you said that it pools ram at effectively the same throughput

[prisma briar]

Nope

[glacial knot]

and behaves like a higher memory card (roughly) with just one side's compute

[prisma briar]

I said the pci-e bandwidth is close and they can share VRAM while noting there was a hit

But, I get it, reading is hard. I'm done here.

[glacial knot]

yea, you should practice it to understand the sources you link to 🙂

[prisma briar]

Says the guy who claimed it'd replicate all the data on each card

[glacial knot]

if you want to do it proper 😂

[prisma briar]

Again, you completely missed the context of what I'm running and are for some reason assuming I have a hundred grand of equipment to play with at home.

[glacial knot]

But if you cared enough to even read the PR, you'd realize that there's no sense of the inter-GPU links being fast enough
and things being split in both compute and memory

no, I don't care too much about data vs. model parallelism
I care about your miscategorizations of how it works

[prisma briar]

For practical purposes an end-user can add the vram together for local compute using libraries that split it over multiple memory pools.

That's just fact

You're being pedantic and whiny arguing about categorization.

I'm talking about running a model at home for basic code completion and commenting, man.

[glacial knot]

🤷 not like you'll ever have to care about the difference

[prisma briar]

Are you always this much of an asshole when you're wrong?

Get over yourself.

[glacial knot]

I'm not wrong though 😂

[prisma briar]

Yea, you are, because you are ignoring the context around what was said and are trying to treat it like a line in a technical manual.

You were wrong, you doubled down on it, when I pointed out what I meant by what I said you got whiny and defensive about categorization. You've contributed nothing except for pedantism and pointing out a different method of using the GPUs exists, completely missing I was clearly talking about one specific way.

It doesn't exactly take a genius to see I wasn't talking about running a huge 10 gpu training cluster

[glacial knot]

I was wrong, I found the way it's working, pointed out your model is utterly wrong. You trippled down on remaining wrong

[prisma briar]

I'm right though, nothing I said was wrong. Oversimplified at worst.

You just want to be pedantic

[glacial knot]

You trying to claim that it doesn't need to copy the data form one GPU to the other (that's inferred on, not the model) is plain wrong

Your idea that it only uses one GPUs compute is also wrong

[prisma briar]

I never said it didn't need to copy it

ofc it needs to copy it

It'd need to do a DMA request and pull it into the local compute just the same as from system ram, the vram is just faster at it

[glacial knot]

what do you think it copies?

[prisma briar]

Who the fuck cares, that's irrelevant to what I was saying.

[glacial knot]

ok, now I understand how shallow you are thinking about this D:

[prisma briar]

If you just want to prove you know more than me then just say so, I'll agree. But this pedantic "I'm intentionally missing the point of what you're saying because I want to seem smart" crap is absurd.

I don't know a ton about LLMs, I've had ollama set up for like two weeks.

[glacial knot]

wasn't intentional. Just different way of thinking about things. E.g.
04:55]Netham45: You only get one 4090 of compute but you can get the vram from both
makes me think of using one side's compute only. While I suspect you meant that hte performance improvement is close to none over fitting it in one GPU.

It's a huge difference to me, but I get why you don't care about the difference.

[prisma briar]

I did correct that part, I thought it was the entire compute was limited to one GPU but it looks like only part of the compute process limited to one gpu.

But, yea, in the context of 'I want to run mixtral q6' I don't really care about how it's done. I'm not at that level with them yet.

[glacial knot]

Anyways, are you sure you cannot combine 3090 with 4090? 🤔 I'd suspect it works, just not NVlink, since that's super generation specific

[prisma briar]

4090 dropped nvlink anyways

I'm not sure, I saw one discussion that said that and haven't found anything else

[glacial knot]

nvidia and their bloody market segmentation =.=

[prisma briar]

It just as may have been them misconfiguring it

[glacial knot]

a bit expensive to "just try it. LOL"

[prisma briar]

I already have a 3090ti and a 4090, though I don't have a case or psu big enough, or overwhelming desire to put them in the same box.

[glacial knot]

yea, the bigger/professional machines just have one type of GPU either way. Since they usually are bought as single specced system

Also some limitations on k8s, which is used a lot for managing the workloads. Though those are lifted soon™

my latest GPU I own is a Radeon HD 6950 😂

I have more fun things to play with at work though...

[prisma briar]

I got a 3090ti for VR but nvidia bugged out their displayport implementation on specifically the 3090ti ( https://nvidia.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/5382 ) so I got the 4090 instead and put the 3090ti in my office PC.

[glacial knot]

we have some 3090s in headless servers^^

[prisma briar]

I only ever game on one at a time so I was thinking of starting ollama on both and setting up a load balancing proxy to redirect api calls to whichever one is under less load, then I could basically always have an llm accessible while not having gaming affected

I really wish there was a way to pass a pci device over infiniband

[glacial knot]

That's sounds like a world of pain
RDMA not good enough?

[prisma briar]

I don't believe my cards support gpudirect rdma

More nvidia market segmentation

Have you tried that on your 3090s?

I heard there's a driver hack to get vGPU working on them, maybe there's a similar one for gpudirect

[glacial knot]

Not that I know of.
they are good enough to run inference on device. And for training we use stupid sized clusters in cloud

[prisma briar]

I set up soft-RoCE between two test boxes and got rdma working over that but didn't actually try the gpus since it seemed like they wouldn't support it

And the test boxes weren't the boxes with the gpus in them, heh.

Figured if it worked I'd get some mellanox cards and set up infiniband

[glacial knot]

FWIW, my understanding of the ollama code, it uses vertical slicing first, then tensor parallelism if it needs to (terms from https://huggingface.co/docs/transformers/v4.17.0/en/parallelism)
If you can fit everything into the vertical slicing, it could in theory use fast networking links between nodes. But that would need application level support which isn't there

Now I kinda want to setup a training cluster at home to play with
But GPUs are €€€

[prisma briar]

I was going to look into trying to tune a pre-existing model

I have a prompt for controlling HA as a voice assistant that Mixtral does well but none of the smaller models handle

[glacial knot]

Just place the computers next to one another
Plug both GPUs in one
But have the other donate some power 😂

[prisma briar]

Hmm

If I got risers I could put the gpu in an enclosure and move it between systems

That might be workable

[glacial knot]

I failed setting up voice for HA
Stupid incompatibility between things
Maybe I'll just buy a compatible smart speaker...

[prisma briar]

I set up the wyoming protocol stuff with whisper/piper/openwakeword

I haven't configured openwakeword yet but the other two work well

[glacial knot]

We've done the computers with crossing cables before...
It works, but it's a huge mess

Also not sure if I'd be worried about common ground with high power tasks. It was only SATA back then

[prisma briar]

I got whisper to work on the igpu on my radeon 5700g server with ROCm and it performed worse than the cpu on average, lol.

[glacial knot]

Yea, I got stuck at trying to setup the mic array box^^

[prisma briar]

I wanted to get the software where I wanted it before I bought any hardware so I haven't tried the wake word stuff at all, just been using it from the app on my phone

[glacial knot]

I've had a spare raspi with a mic-array around
From when I first read about rasspy

[prisma briar]

I have a USB-C screen hooked up to my PC that runs a dashboard/shows security cameras, it's got speakers built in and a USB C 2.0 passthrough on the side. I was going to get a mic to plug into that.

And if that works I'll worry about satellites later

[glacial knot]

I think that failed on HA not being quite ready at the time.
And then when I recently wanted to set things up, I Realized that the software side needs 64bit OS for the features I want, but that mic-array's driver kernel panics on 64bit kernels 🤦

I run HA in a different room than the one I'd care about for voice^^

[prisma briar]

Same, I ran the cable from my server through a wall and wall-mounted the portable screen.

I still need to clean up the hole I poked for it though, I was going to 3D print a flange for it

[glacial knot]

... I have an existing ethernet link between my office and the living room.

I also still have a blue yeti in storage. I might just hook that up to the cluster node I already got running in the living room 🤔
I just think the pickup pattern isn't quite right for smart speaker applications

[prisma briar]

I have two snowballs and they sucked when I tried them with almond

Way too close of a pickup field

[glacial knot]

boom arm above my sofa 😂

I could get another of https://rode.com/en/microphones/on-camera/videomic-go-ii which I use for VC

I didn't want to have a mic in frame but still have better quality than my webcam (or god forbid, the laptop's internal)

[prisma briar]

I got a wireless modmic I'm happy with the quality from

apt-x ll so it's low bandwidth but more than good for voice

Assuming you mean voice chat by VC

But it's also visible and magnetized to the side of my headset

Heh, I have a standalone bluetooth receiver that outputs toslink that the modmic can connect to, I was a bit surprised the first time I accidentally paired them and my voice boomed out my speakers.

[glacial knot]

Video chat/conference. But same difference

[forest edge]

you guys are streamers? what your channels?

[prisma briar]

I don't stream, I sit in meetings at work a lot though

Enough to warrant getting a setup that lets people hear me clearly

[forest edge]

screw that.. builtin mic or they can just hear static imo

[prisma briar]

Work paid for a headset for me, I just didn't like it.

It looks pretty ridiculious, it's got all these light-up blue strips on it

[forest edge]

least they didn't make it a requirement. I've had friends tell me they are forced to use whatever their job gives them no matter how shitty it is lol

prob some response to all that stuff you can buy to "fake" you being active and working while at home

[prisma briar]

My requirement is to have something that works, there's no specifics.

How do you fake talking to someone over a headset?

[forest edge]

was refering to other things. but the "requirement" aspect spilling over to all parts

schools here require the kids to use thier school issued laptops etc. can't even use your own computer lol

[prisma briar]

I got banned from using school computers when I was in highschool

Idiots didn't know how to take a security report

[forest edge]

i wouldn't be shocked if your not handd a laptop starting at grade 3 thes days

[prisma briar]

Probably

I would have been a lot more organized in school if I'd been able to do it all on a computer, ngl

[blazing musk]

Tablets during some points in 1st grade

They're in 2nd now and speed math is now on those instead of "mad minute" like we used to do

[prisma briar]

Good, honestly

Kids don't need to waste time learning antiquated methods like pencil and paper.

[forest edge]

I run across people asking about if laptops/tablets are more eco friendly than pencil and paper when it comes to like schooling etc over the grand scale and you always see the argument about how trees are getting chopped down but they never touch on the recycling and lasting impact aspect of it lol

[prisma briar]

Putting an environmental price on it is hard

Computers take a lot to make but they allow things to be done without creating paper waste, they allow things to be done much quicker, and they allow for things pencil+paper just doesn't.

But from an organizational standpoint computers are so much easier

Misplace a paper file in an office? Fuck. Misplace a file on a PC? Run a quick search, it's found.

[forest edge]

in a learning aspect. pencil and paper still wins out tho

[prisma briar]

I feel I went to school during the divide of computers overtaking paper, I learned cursive (was the last year to in school) but by my senior year I was expected to turn in everything electronically.

[forest edge]

which really is kind of the point

[prisma briar]

No particular learning method works better for everyone and, personally, I don't see what pencil+paper offers over a computer

I would've rather they went over how to use evernote and stuff like that in school versus go over how to use a paper planner and organize a binder

I use note taking applications still, I haven't touched a binder in years

[forest edge]

they have done studies that in general for most your brain soaks up more when you relay information through writing vs typing

but as you said, computers just offer more stuff they can be utilized

thus why schools do the tablets/laptops

[prisma briar]

They've got to be a godsend for teachers, too

Grading 150 assignments on a PC would be so much easier than grading them on paper and dealing with crappy handwriting

[forest edge]

yea well the handwriting itself is often graded to a degree

not to mention an indicator for some things teachers really should look out for

[glacial knot]

Which should not be the cade

Grading handwriting should have been removed at least 10 years ago

[forest edge]

cursive is kind of useless but normal print is critical

[clear ferry]

I don't think we have had grading of handwriting since the 70s

Heck, kids have had a dedicated tablet / laptop since 2003 here

[glacial knot]

.s/critical/also useless/

[forest edge]

I find it hard to believe even in other countries that there is no grading of handwriting during the lower grades at all.

you pretty much learn to write the same time you learn to read

[glacial knot]

None that matters in the least bit

and it really shouldn't be a thing

[forest edge]

lets hope you don't lose your tongue during an apocalypse then lol

[glacial knot]

??? Why would that be related to handwriting skills?

[forest edge]

not referring to cursive but your handwriting needs to be readable lol

thats what they grade you on.. difference between scribbles and print

least they use to. no idea what they do these days

[glacial knot]

how does that relate to the apocalypse now?

[forest edge]

no tongue, no talk.. apocalypse usually means no typing... didn't think that was a confusing statement

[glacial knot]

And no. The only thing I've written by hand since I left education is my name. And very seldomly my address.
I should just print stickers for that...

With my meds, if I can't type I'm dead already either way 😂

the level of apocalypse that destroys all electronics would have some worse issues than spoken language for me

[primal laurel]

I still take notes on paper so im happy I can write properly

[forest edge]

I prefer notes on paper then using something like the note app on the phone

[glacial knot]

Why take them twice if you can just start with something better?

[glacial knot]

I effectively need to be able to search my notes.
I could try to write in a way OCR can cope with. But I'm faster with a keyboard than doing that by hand

[forest edge]

as long as it's readable is all that matters imo.. only office type jobs tend to push for better

[primal laurel]

My notes involve a lot of math and drawings. I tried doing that on a tablet, couldnt get used to it

[clear ferry]

I take a lot of notes

On my remarkable

Best purchase last 12 months

Great for presentations too

[glacial knot]

My colleague also loves his. But I'm unsure if I want one. Essentially never use my wacom which would allow many similar features while I'm at my desk

[clear ferry]

Yeah I have a Wacom too

Hardly ever use it

[glacial knot]

I mostly got the first one I have to write the support in sway^^

second one was intended as toy. And for some types of notes. But ehh

[clear ferry]

I use the remarkable a lot in the field while walking around customer sites

So the Wacom isn't comparable to me

[glacial knot]

^^ I tend to just do that on my phone. I don't usually take lots of notes outside meetings AND away from my desk

[clear ferry]

Fun thing about the remarkable during presentation is doing the drawings before and then just use the colour marking highlight during the presentation

[forest edge]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CMMG8XnUAAELHft.jpg

[glacial knot]

I wish

[clear ferry]

Thankfully we also have a lot of generations that don't know what the sumerian empire or Reaganomics was like

[clear ferry]

Ironically we had overhead projectors and smart boards in the school at the same time

Early 00s

We also had "mother tongue" teachers in school over broadband in the late 90s

Oh no technology

[glacial knot]

smart boards (backlit and projector driven), simple projectors and overheads all at the same time^^

[clear ferry]

Yeah

We had ones that had touch screen displays at some point

But those just got replaced by tablets pretty quickly

[glacial knot]

wait, no that thing wasn't backlit. It was a normal blackboard (the white variant, not green with chalk) and a cam that then tried to be smart 😂

[clear ferry]

Yes that one too

Was horrid

[glacial knot]

yea, that one sucked.
The projector based ones were decent.
Though at that time they worked similar to a wiimote. Which allowed to do some silly things

[clear ferry]

I just managed schools at the time, but dang it was a lot of stuff at once

I rolled out wireless on most of our 55 schools in 2005

That was a nightmare with reflection on metal lockers and old brick schools

Was also fun trying to maintain windows update over 128k lines to the island schools in 2006

All inner school had 10+Mbit

And I had 50 at that point, so 128k gave me proper 1998 vibes

Or US 2021 vibes

[forest edge]

and now you are just spoiled with speed

[clear ferry]

I can have 10G at home since 2020 yes

And I'm currently deploying 800G

[forest edge]

and in another 50 years people will be reminiscing about how slow 10g was

[clear ferry]

We already do

It is 2010 speeds after all

I haven't rolled out 10G in over a decade

[forest edge]

https://tenor.com/view/back-to-the-future-babys-toy-confused-gif-12372619

[clear ferry]

Also why you can buy 48port 10G for $50

[glacial knot]

which one? 🤔

[clear ferry]

Nexus 5k

I just ordered one

40G is also reasonably cheap

Or 56G if you run ipoib

[glacial knot]

that's an empty SFP chassis? Still quite nice
Even just the first google hit is 180€

[glacial knot]

That's 32port, right?

[clear ferry]

I have reasonable access to dac cables

32+16port expansion

[glacial knot]

^^ I could drop some at work, but they'd get mad at some point

[clear ferry]

56G

40G

100G isn't unreasonable either

[primal laurel]

I dont own anything that can even do 100g

[clear ferry]

No nvme?

100g is already out of sale and obsolete

[glacial knot]

Is that just ebay? 🤔

[clear ferry]

Yes

[glacial knot]

that reminds me, I wanted to check storage if we have a network card left over at work D:

[primal laurel]

wut?

[glacial knot]

you could run some nvme over fiber at those speeds. but unless you have SAN, I don't think there's a reason to

[primal laurel]

I dont have any usecases for that

[glacial knot]

I'd have to split my compute and storage
Then it might make sense to run VMs off of something like
Instead of iscsi

[clear ferry]

Iscsi is fine for most cases

As long as you have a proper sync storage

Optane in front, rust in the back is great

[primal laurel]

For anything at home 1g is fine. 10g would be better but only my pc can do that

[clear ferry]

I don't need anything outside of 1G outside my rack

But I need 10-40 in my rack

[solar zealot]

1G

[forest edge]

I dunno, once you introduce video and various smart home stuff. 1G isn't enough.

I do think people swapping out to 2.5G and not just skipping to to the next level is dumb

[solar zealot]

those dont tend to use that much bandwidth either unless you actually move files through the net

[primal laurel]

I doubt that

[forest edge]

wish that were true. but i can see the bottle necking in my router from time to time lol

course I also pipe mjpeg camera feeds around

[solar zealot]

must be very high bitrates

[forest edge]

just alot of seperate feeds

[solar zealot]

the only reason why i have and am still upgrading to 10gb is that backups will take too long to transfer around otherwise

i sure do not like my wifi being slow because of that :^)

kinda weird that multi gb isnt the standard for most switch things yet

[primal laurel]

cost vs gains, just not there yet

[solar zealot]

pretty much any device comes with a 2.5g port

just not them switches, its similarly expensive to buying 10gig gear

[primal laurel]

vast majority of consumers dont even have a switch

[forest edge]

the era of the computer nerds

[solar zealot]

ah yes the wifi ;D

no need to fault them, wifi 7 gonna be great

[forest edge]

screw wifi

[solar zealot]

less

[primal laurel]

checked pricewatch, routers with 10G ports start at about 500 EUR... yeah good luck lol

[glacial knot]

video feeds should really be on separate networks either way. As much as possible

[solar zealot]

if they can afford the latest iphone they can afford a 500 buck router ;D

especially as the 10g ports are like 20g on m1

[glacial knot]

just get L3 capable switches and do some SDN 🙂

[primal laurel]

ubiquity, the apple of networking

[solar zealot]

Well it's just 2x to a normal one

Could have more apple

[primal laurel]

if you let a third party repair it drops back to 1G/s

[clear ferry]

Even my 4k hdr pure rip lotr is only 96MBps

So should play fine with a bit of buffering over gigabit

So for normies who use streaming services they probably peak out at 15MBps

In absolute worst possible scenario

With pure 4khdr

[primal laurel]

you sure that's MB/s and not Mb/s?

[clear ferry]

Yes

[primal laurel]

Regular 4k movie is about 50Mb/s, or even lower

[steel crag]

for SDR yeah

[red rock]

Can I have your opinion on https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/urgreen/ugreen-nasync-next-level-storage-limitless-possibilities

[steel crag]

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Nighthawk-Quad-Stream-Quad-core-Compatible/dp/B01M12RE4A this router was maybe $500 new

[glacial knot]

hmm, 600$ for the 6bay 🤔

[dusky plank]

Keep storage stupid

Works well for me ™

[primal laurel]

has only one 10G port

[dusky plank]

Sth recently reviewed cheap 2.5/10

[prisma briar]

Unless you need >1Gb on a single link I'd personally go with multiple AC/AX routers spread around for coverage

[glacial knot]

oh, there's an all flash.
I wish they said something about the OS and with lack thereof, hackability

[forest edge]

overpriced. plus ugreen has no buisness being on a kickstarter

[prisma briar]

every dedicated nas costs more than building a cheap-ass PC in a case and chucking drives in it

Even a PC case with hotswap bays is pretty cheap

[red rock]

its for a friend who is probably not completely techy enough to do an own NAS project

[steel crag]

this didn't specify multiple 10G ports tho

[steel crag]

qnap enters the chat

[iron granite]

What is the difference between the 4-bay and the 4-bay Plus? 🤔

[steel crag]

my qnap was like $200, $350 with drives

[prisma briar]

Is it one of the USB-C enclosures?

[steel crag]

no

NAS

not external hard drive

[prisma briar]

Their NAS's don't go that cheap, at least not now.

Except for their multi-drive USB-C enclosures

[forest edge]

the cheapest 2 bay is $100+ more than a mini pc with same specs and you only gain the two bay hot swap out of it

[steel crag]

https://www.amazon.com/QNAP-TS-433-4G-US-Quad-core-Processor-Diskless/dp/B0B8M5WQ1Y this is the newer one to the one I have

[steel crag]

but power usage is gonna be lower on the nas than on the PC

[forest edge]

i disagree

mini pc is like less than 13w

*same specs

[glacial knot]

CPU and with that the ports

non-plus has 2x2.5GB, Plus has 1x2.5, 1x10GB

[steel crag]

you gonna use a mini PC to build a DIY nas tho? how many drives you fitting in that thing

[prisma briar]

I priced out a DIY NAS a while ago that's about $80 more than that and gets a real CPU

https://www.amazon.com/AMD-4600G-12-Thread-Unlocked-Processor/dp/B09Z5NH6SJ - $115.72
https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-A520I-AC-Interfaces-Motherboard/dp/B08F7BHDLY/ - $99
https://www.amazon.com/KCMconmey-Internal-Compatible-Backplane-Enclosure/dp/B09WQC44B3/ - $79.99
https://www.amazon.com/TEAMGROUP-T-Force-3200MHz-PC4-25600-Desktop/dp/B08PJNVWNZ/ - $35.99
https://www.amazon.com/SilverStone-Technology-FX350-G-Connector-SST-FX350-G/dp/B0B2ZRW27R - $96.99
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0CMPZQS81/ for four internal drives - $35.99
Total - $463.68
CPU Ryzen 4600G
Memory 16GB DDR4
Hotswap Drive bays 4
Internal Drive Bays 1 2.5"
M.2 slots 1 internal

[forest edge]

I mean considering mani have built in m2 and a slot for ssd then you have like 4 usb3 ports.. infact some even have the thunderbolt ports

[prisma briar]

Though idk if the cooler will fit, might need a shorter one

[steel crag]

so in other words multiple points of failure, no/very limited internal drives, and a mess of cabling? no thanks

[forest edge]

how are those points of failure?

[steel crag]

you don't see an external hard drive as a point of failure?

lmfao

[forest edge]

no

i do not

[steel crag]

well find your rocker and get back on it

[forest edge]

I have had 2 external drives going for over 5+ years.. not worried one bit

[prisma briar]

A nas is a glorified external drive

Though I wouldn't consider USB for anything

[steel crag]

I see the enclosure as a point of failure, the cable as a point of failure (as its external), and the USB port/bus it's connected to as well

[forest edge]

your saying usb is a failure over a traditional sata connection?

[steel crag]

no I'm saying because it's outside of the case, that it's more likely to get bumped or pulled

do you understand points of failure Sonoma?

[forest edge]

stop letting your cat play with your shit then?

[steel crag]

no

I put my shit in a cabinet

[forest edge]

then how does it get bumped?

[steel crag]

then my cat can't play with it, or anyone else

[prisma briar]

If you can't keep your drives from getting knocked around that's on you, tbh

[steel crag]

I guess you never go in your cabinet to add a cable or anything then

[prisma briar]

I don't flail around wildly while doing so

[forest edge]

are your hands swollen?

https://tenor.com/view/jake-gyllenhaal-hi-hello-giant-hand-gif-4880945

[steel crag]

compared to yours, yes Sonoma, I am a large man

my hands are slightly smaller than Shaq's

[forest edge]

well sucks to be you then

gotta fork out for the anti-big hands equipment lol

[steel crag]

hey if I had small hand it would look very very odd on my 6'5" body

Sonoma not everyone has hobbit hands, I'm not from middle earth you know

[forest edge]

i would be more worried about your hands being too big lol

[prisma briar]

Externals are fine, just don't stand them up, lay them down on the wide side.

[steel crag]

I use externals, but I don't use them as my primary data storage lmfao

[prisma briar]

Only external I have anymore is on my Wii

[steel crag]

I have one connected to my nas for nightly backups of my home dir

I Don't backup my media at all

[forest edge]

how did you manage to not bump it or pull it out by now?

[steel crag]

I made a braket for it

[forest edge]

surley you must have yanked that damn thing dozens of times

[steel crag]

that's why I don't mind it

I have a bracket it sits in, and cable is not loose

[forest edge]

pretty sure that braket cost a hell of a lot less than some devices with a hot swap bay lol

[steel crag]

it cost me nothing because I fabricated it myself from scrap

[forest edge]

there you go

[steel crag]

took me 20 mins and the dremel I already have

[forest edge]

krazie back on team external

just like that

[steel crag]

nope

just because I use one external drive for backups that gets unplugged when they are done... doesn't mean I put all my shit on externals and hope for the best

[forest edge]

lol hope for the best

[prisma briar]

I'd be the most sketched out over the USB part of it personally

Had too many failed controllers and data corruption issues over the years

[steel crag]

exhibit a

the usb port/bus.....

hmmmmm

[steel crag]

and exactly what did you think I based my choices from? the back of a cracker jack box?

😛

[forest edge]

never seen that. ever

[steel crag]

well middle earth is not the world

[forest edge]

bad luck is just that bad luck

[steel crag]

hey there's a reason we have MTBF

it's averages and percentages

but that doesn't mean because you've had good luck so far that you won't have bad

[prisma briar]

Oh, I bet the issue here is Sonoma never transfers anything bigger than a JPEG.

So he never sees weird USB issues

[steel crag]

but it seems when it does bite you, it will be glorious Sonoma

[forest edge]

if a plex server counts as a jpeg.. sure lol

[steel crag]

watching 1960's shows in 360p don't count

[prisma briar]

Plex is definitely closer to a jpeg than an actual intense random workload.

[steel crag]

ive seen image files larger than the install for plex

so I'd agree Netham45

[forest edge]

ok nasa engineer

[prisma briar]

ok Mr "write once read many is the same as actively using a drive"

[forest edge]

I store other stuff too

[steel crag]

I bet Sonoma doesn't network boot from his usb drives lmfao

because I can network boot from my NAS

😄

[forest edge]

but it's not a work server so not gonna make it out to be more than what it really is lol

[steel crag]

well my NAS does everything I need it to

and burns like 12W of power

so you do your sd card media server, and I'll keep what I have

[forest edge]

you do that

[steel crag]

and I'm getting a new NAS this week too

[forest edge]

trash finally make it's way to washing up on shore huh

[steel crag]

you mad bro?

[prisma briar]

He's always mad

[steel crag]

the mega yachts don't come here to navigate thru trash lmfao

[forest edge]

just congratulating you on your beach find

[steel crag]

yeah cuz I'd totally use a NAS I dug out of the breakwater covered in sand right?

[forest edge]

mega yachts don't come there to buy computer equipment either lol

[steel crag]

I'm shocked you didn't think I used quantum coconuts

[prisma briar]

I would, getting that thing fixed up and running would be some serious nerd cred

[forest edge]

i didn't think you were that advanced yet lol

[steel crag]

oh? you're aware of all the tech businesses based here that outfit them?

[forest edge]

or i might have

[steel crag]

or did you know we have the largest dry dock in this hemisphere to repair large yachts and ships?

[forest edge]

is there 1 listing in your yellowpages? oh sorry.. meant town billboard directory?

[prisma briar]

The guy from KC talking about boats is 🤣 🤣 🤣

[steel crag]

you still use yellow pages in middle earth?

cuz we don't

we have this thing called the internet

and the directory is on there