the-water-cooler

[gleaming crater]

Oh yeah it would reboot if you panned at night lol

But aruba let me just say this port is allowed to use up to 30W and all was good

[ocean oar]

Heh, I had that issue with some cheap garbage PoE splitter someone gave me for something at work. It had "12V 2A" in big letters on the side, but came up as a Class0 (15.4W) device.
Better check the math on that one, chief.

[gleaming crater]

That sounds like a fire waiting to happen lol

They probably wired it internally with CCA too

[ocean oar]

Funnily enough have had it the other way too. Was a Ubiquiti switch (naturally), which called itself 802.3at but definitely didn't play by the standard (no surprises, for any of the Gen1 models with passive PoE support). Ruckus APs (which definitely did need at) only saw it as af, had to use the "running from a PoE injector" option to override their power limit

[gleaming crater]

Oh man ubiquiti is the worst at messing with the poe standard lol

I still have one passive POE camera I've not yet replaced

I almost bought an active to passive converter before stopping myself realizing a new camera was not even 2x the price of the adapter lol

[blazing musk]

lol I think this channel is the Ubiquiti Haters Club, I hear this complaint almost daily

[ocean oar]

"Ubiquiti survivors support group"

[gleaming crater]

Ahahaha

I got burnt by unifi protect

[ocean oar]

It's actually almost fun, finding out the ways in which other people have been let down by their almost-but-not-quite-standards-compliant hardware

[gleaming crater]

Like "oh you were running your own hardware with unifi video? get rekt now you buy our hardware only."

They pulled that move when they didn't even have a raid nvr on the market too

[ocean oar]

Or any ability to expand beyond one device. The hardware NVRs support some form of stacking mode now that puts all the cameras in one UI, but that also took years longer to arrive. So it was a big FU if you needed more cameras than any one recorder device could support too.

[gleaming crater]

Oh totally, I remember thier formus were red hot with "I just installed a 40k system at a client and you're telling me it's now EOL???"

Couldn't even build what people had going already

[ocean oar]

I've also been loving the pissy forum threads about the non-controllable camera firmware updates.
Seems like they just YOLO those at whatever time of they day they feel like.

Put that one on the long list of reasons you couldn't use these anywhere important

[gleaming crater]

It's so they can make sure the rtsp streams are unusable for 3rd party software you see

Wouldn't want you to buy their camera hardware and go using it with unapproved NVRs

The icing on the cake with their lock-in is they can't even keep their hardware in stock lol

[gleaming crater]

When did cloudflare start giving out free AI model workers?

I just spun up a stablediffusion model endpoint for free?

[ocean oar]

Probably when they realised it was a great loss-leader to get people to over-pay for other shit 🤷‍♂️

"look how easy it is to integrate it with X"... "oh and you're hooked now, the price will be $$$$$$$$$$$"

[gleaming crater]

They don't even have commercial pricing models yet for it lol

But it'll make me revolutionary racoons lol

[ocean oar]

How many toes does a raccoon have again?

[gleaming crater]

Lol this one is realllly bad at hands

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/rocket-raccoon-gotg-guardians-of-the-galaxy-gif-12468624

[gleaming crater]

Damn I kinda like the watercolor stuff that comes outta this model

[ocean oar]

lol Miami Vice raccoon

[gleaming crater]

Now it is

[orchid rose]

Yes

[gleaming crater]

it's interesting how deterministic this model is

[orchid rose]

Lately lot of these models seem overly trained and instead of producing new images they actually just steal and there's a few law suits being launched against these and some of them look pretty bad for the defence (I'm looking at you Midjourney)

[gleaming crater]

Oh for sure, for me they're pure entertainment

I might cook something up to generate random art based on what's playing on my stereo

[orchid rose]

https://vxtwitter.com/rahll/status/1739003201221718466

[gleaming crater]

Has midjourny ever given any fucks?

[orchid rose]

Probably not but once the lawsuits start coming at you, it's bad times all around

[ocean oar]

Only if you can make it listen for random 10 second intervals, do speech recognition, and then visualise the results

[gleaming crater]

I'm sure I could look at the upcoming queue and pull lyrics from an api

[ocean oar]

Or just look up the lyrics and pick 20 random words

[gleaming crater]

And feed those into an image model

[ocean oar]

But combining it with speech recognition's bogus understanding of, well everything

[orchid rose]

That's a pretty neat idea

[gleaming crater]

First line of stairway to heaven gets me this:

[ocean oar]

OSHA would never let stairs that uneven fly

[gleaming crater]

I'm gonna have to try this

First chunk of don't stop belivin gets this

[orchid rose]

How would you know how even the stairs to heaven are

God clearly also removed her wings and her legs to make it harder

It might be more like the maze from Westworld where you need to figure it out

[gleaming crater]

You could have random art style modifiers too

[ocean oar]

A subway train is certainly a choice, although I guess for there to be a midnight train (at all), it probably would be in a large city and thus mass transit rather than long-distance

[gleaming crater]

You could have custom prompts for known songs if you wanted to get fancy

Instead of lyric scraping

[ocean oar]

How long is it taking to spit these images back?

[gleaming crater]

Even the first paragraph of la bamba got me this lol

Maybe 3-5s

[ocean oar]

So per verse is probably doable

[gleaming crater]

My queue has spotify track ids, I could do pre-lookups with some heavy lifting

[orchid rose]

Per verse could come up with pretty interesting images. I can totally see what how funny that would be for some of the drug-fueled Bob Dylan lyrics from the 60s

[gleaming crater]

The trick will be finding a good lyric api

https://lyrist.vercel.app/ seems decent

[orchid rose]

Eventually these will be built in with the text-based AI's so you can just run random commands a bit like what JLO did with his music assistant

[gleaming crater]

I mean I can probably just make chatgpt code the majority of what I'm trying to do anyways haha

Tho it's just api glue really

[orchid rose]

I haven't played with GPT4v myself so I don't really know how much it can do

[gleaming crater]

4 is pretty good if you coach it properly

iterative approaches work better

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/go-for-it-you-can-do-it-encourage-do-it-gif-14006408

[gleaming crater]

If you actually leave a bunch of #todo comments in the code with instructions it tends to work better lol

[static schooner]

Reminds me of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fermat's_Last_Theorem

# todo: trivial proof

[gleaming crater]

Lol did you see the model google trained to write code to solve a problem? they basically proved a million monkeys on a keyboard works if you build another monkey to kill the ones that produce garbage

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-023-06924-6

[primal laurel]

Yes, interesting that they apply it to combinatorics

[gleaming crater]

I think that problem happened to be a particular favorite of the researchers

[prisma briar]

My dog is acting like it's my fault it snowed.

Keeps dragging me to her dog door and whining, lol.

[glacial knot]

then fix it

[prisma briar]

It'll work itself out.

[glacial knot]

in Summer

[dusky plank]

lol homework

[clear ferry]

lol people

[umbral cliff]

Yes you do look like that

[clear ferry]

and you haven't even seen me

[static schooner]

It's been established that he looks like Phil Collins, as does everyone else in Norway (from a sample of Phil Collins concert attendees)

[clear ferry]

hang on

I'm gonna ask AI to generate a norwegian

[static schooner]

Bald, goatee, probably holding a guitar

Or at a drum kit

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/phil-collins-puppet-gif-10367879

[clear ferry]

a photo of an average norwegian man who works in information technology

wonder what ai generates if I describe myself

let's see

well that backfired

[prisma briar]

The one on the bottom right looks like he's sitting on the can

[clear ferry]

I often do that

Pretty cold now

[prisma briar]

Fun. It's supposed to be around that here later in the week.

-2c here right now but it's also snowing

My newly heated garage is a comfy 18c still

[glacial knot]

just slightly above freezing here 😮

[clear ferry]

It's decently cold when snot freezes in your nose while breathing

[prisma briar]

I always hike my jacket up over my face when it's like that

[blazing musk]

Respiration preheat

[clear ferry]

Eh, I don't bother with inland cold, if it is -12 by the coast, fuck I'm wearing a sleeping bag outside

[prisma briar]

Yea, the temperature here swings pretty far throughout the year but it's almost always dry.

[clear ferry]

We go down to about -35c here

[prisma briar]

Sometimes it'll rain for a week during a 38c heat wave

[clear ferry]

Further north is -55

[prisma briar]

It drops to about -30c here for a few days throughout the year

[clear ferry]

In summer we usually max out at 34-36c

So, 70c temp span

[glacial knot]

perfect mosquitto weather

[prisma briar]

About the same weather here, heh

I'm at 1820m in elevation here so it gets a bit colder than it does in the lower areas of Colorado

[clear ferry]

That'll do it

We are only at 200m

[prisma briar]

I haven't been that low in elevation in like 5 years

[glacial knot]

I've been below NN in the last year 😮

[prisma briar]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normalnull

Well that exists.

[umbral cliff]

Fuck things being too cold
Anything below 0 is fucked
Below 10 is painful

[clear ferry]

My childhood home is probably around 10m

[umbral cliff]

Was 30c today here, positive 30 that is

[glacial knot]

What did you expect elevation to be measured against?

[umbral cliff]

Sea level

[prisma briar]

^

[umbral cliff]

AMSL

[prisma briar]

I've never heard of elevation being measured against anything else

It makes sense, just not a system I've ever encountered before.

Sea level is as arbitrary as anything else.

[glacial knot]

it's not constant. You have to measure against a normalized sea level

[umbral cliff]

As long as the base amount is standardised across a country, whether its sea level or the german NHN it doesn't really matter

As a pilot i'm used to seeing AMSL for altitude for things

[clear ferry]

Mmmm using ASMR to measure elevation

https://tenor.com/view/basicbimboo-asmr-eating-twitch-gif-24758305

[finite atlas]

let me measure, 19 whole mm!

[forest edge]

your koala jacket not keeping you warm?

[low harness]

Oh, ain’t that swell. I decided to clear out an old mac mini for the kids, so I started it in recovery mode, reformatted the harddrive and started reinstalling osx.
So, apparently the certificate for old OSX versions expired in 2019… no go.
No problems. I’ll just download the updated, recertified installer and create a usb key. Luckily I have another mac, so I can run the mac-exclusive boot media maker.
…except it won’t let you download installers for OSX versions older than the one you have installed… which is artificially limited from running on the mini.

Apple sure make some pretty paperweights.

[primal laurel]

it's all part of apple's ethos

but perhaps it can run linux?

[low harness]

I have a few more things to try before I resort to that, but it should work.

[clear ferry]

Kindergarten kids out in -43.5c today

[glacial knot]

Time to build a snowman

[clear ferry]

Do you want to build a snowman?

[glacial knot]

no

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/freezing-the-shining-winter-gif-10493991

[gleaming crater]

If that was a real number where I live I’d move lol

[clear ferry]

Only -28 where i live today

Snot freezing in the nose when breathing is a great sensation

[gleaming crater]

I'm like a 5 minute drive from the waterfront, if it freezes that cold here it's basically the apocalypse

Basically any time we have enough cloud cover for precipitation it keeps it too warm for snow most of the time

We basically have to be assualted by a cold front out of canada to get snow lol

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/bYuzv.gif

[gleaming crater]

This was my printer when I woke up today lol

[static schooner]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seppuku

[gleaming crater]

Lol that's what I get for being too bold with my support settings

I've got this thing at "push print from the other side of the house and never look at it again" for 99% of what comes out of it

I figured out the magic retraction settings to keep my nozzle from oozing between prints

[glacial knot]

it'd be very impressive if that structure was intentional

[gleaming crater]

It managed to finish the parts despite the supports getting knocked over too, albiet with a bit of layer shift

I think my filament wasn't dry enough

[prisma briar]

Might be a bed adhesion issue too

[gleaming crater]

I've not had a bad first layer in so long I can't remember the last time

[prisma briar]

Almost every time I have a first layer failure it's because I've got grease off of my hand onto the plate

[gleaming crater]

I give my glass beds a light mist of PVA hairspray and scrub them clean every month or two

[prisma briar]

I clean my bed every dozen or so prints to avoid that

I have PEI sheets for my beds, I moved away from glass

[gleaming crater]

If I ever needed new beds I'd get that

But these two glass beds been doing me great for like 3 years now

I really do hit print and not even look at the printer again for hours

[prisma briar]

I had a glass bed on my Ender but my Bambu came with a PEI sheet and it was so much nicer I went and got one for my Ender too

[gleaming crater]

I figured out that putting in an 18mm retract at the end of my prints meant I never got a blob during warmup on the next print

My waste line is like 1-2 inches max as a result

[prisma briar]

Both of my printers can waste a ton of plastic, heh.

[gleaming crater]

And I can always change filament when the machine is off/cold

Because it's effectively backed out of the hotend

I never understood why printers don't unload more by default like this, it's done wonders for my start of print reliability

[prisma briar]

Both of the nozzles on my ender 3 would clog from that

Goddamnit discord, this again?

[gleaming crater]

Too big lol

I've got a microswiss DD hotend on mine (don't judge me lol) and it's literally never clogged with those kinda retracts

[prisma briar]

I couldn't do that on my Ender, I have a phaetus hic (doesn't do well refeeding filament that's been fully pulled out) and a 4->1 mixing hotend (Would shit itself and need disassembled and unclogged if I tried that)

[gleaming crater]

I believe it, those seem like temperamental beasts

DD is another world for filament handling

[prisma briar]

Yea, I wouldn't recommend the mixing nozzle to anyone at this point

[gleaming crater]

Hah, even prusa went to multiple toolheads

[prisma briar]

I was considering that. I have three of the original Ender hotends, I could get a fourth and put them all on another gantry

It's not like the color mixing actually works well

[gleaming crater]

Sounds heavy and slow lol

[prisma briar]

But I already have two AMSes for my Bambu that let me do 8 material prints so honestly I'm probably just going to return my Ender to stock

[gleaming crater]

Lol eww stock ender

[prisma briar]

Well just one hotend I meant

[gleaming crater]

Those things need a 2nd z screw to have any quality

[prisma briar]

No dual carriage/5 extruder motors

Yea, I have dual z and auto z leveling on mine

[gleaming crater]

I told my brother in-law to just get a sovol, it's basically an ender with all the upgrades

[prisma briar]

If I were to get another one now I'd probably get a Voron

[gleaming crater]

Aren't those a little more tempremental?

[prisma briar]

But I don't keep my current two printers running frequently enough to warrant a third

[gleaming crater]

I still need to replace the fep on my mini 8k so I can print another set of keyboard keys

[prisma briar]

I imagine a voron would be less tempremental than an Ender

They can level better, their gantries are more stable, CoreXY is better than a bed slinger

[gleaming crater]

I recall the voron was a big pain during assembly when I last looked at it

Trying to get the belts dialed in

[prisma briar]

I can't imagine it being much different than building my Ender from a kit

Just a different belt path

[gleaming crater]

Yeah I need to print another set of keys

The stems on my first set weren't holding enough and I had to type slower haha

Only reason I went down the resin printer rabbit hole

But I was suprised how good of a keyboard key you can get out of a resin printer now

https://github.com/rsheldiii/KeyV2

[prisma briar]

I was going to print some out of PC, I've got a box with an esp32, an LCD, and a dozen switches wired to it that controls my currently playing media on my computer and lets me turn lights on/off in here

I need to remake the entire thing tbh

[gleaming crater]

You can only print certain styles on FDM and the stems are a bitch

[prisma briar]

My chair smashed into it, heh

[low harness]

I like the feeling of your eyelashes freezing together when you blink.

[gleaming crater]

This lib does have custom supports for FDM printing tho

[clear ferry]

yes

[prisma briar]

I don't think my Bambu will have any issue printing a keycap

And if I use PC instead of PLA the stem connection shouldn't deform

I do need to get another roll of PC so I can print icons on the top though

[gleaming crater]

With all the curves and slopes of a normal keycap, sometimes for top surface quality you want to print on their backs

Or yeah have flat not scooped tops

[prisma briar]

Support material if used right basically fixes the quality on the underside of prints and lets you print in basically any orientation

[gleaming crater]

You generally have to make some kinda compromise for FDM when printing a keycap, resin can do supports that give you basically commercial-grade keys

[prisma briar]

It does a layer of a material that doesn't stick to the plastic as the interface between supports and model, lets it have no gap like normal supports need

[gleaming crater]

Yeah support filament is nice with multi-material units

[quartz yoke]

Hey all, not sure if this is the right place to ask (if not would love guidance as to best place to ask) but I have a question about Roborock (vac) integration with Alexa. I figured off-topic as I am not using HA.

Does anyone know if it’s possible to create a routine in the Roborock app and then call/activate that routine via an Alexa command.

I have the Roborock skill linked to Alexa, I am just not sure what the Alexa command is to call/activate a Roborock routine.

Eg: In the Roborock app I have a routines called full clean, deep clean, and quick clean. I would like to say “Alexa xxxx” and have it run the quick clean.

[gleaming crater]

Lol, not using HA?

[prisma briar]

I'd suggest finding a discord or community for Alexa support.

[gleaming crater]

Or roborock

[glacial knot]

The solution is to use HA to do it 😂

then again, I don't trigger anything myself. I have it bound to me not being home

[gleaming crater]

I would need 3 of those things to hit every floor at my house

And so many stairs

[prisma briar]

I would need my house to be way less cluttered and have way more carpet for a roomba to make sense

[primal laurel]

I love my roomba

Clean floor every day

[glacial knot]

Get an elevator

[gleaming crater]

Lol or just make it yeet itself down the stairs

[prisma briar]

I can vacuum all the carpet in my house in like 5 minutes, heh

[primal laurel]

I don't have carpet

But white floors

Not sure why they thought that was a good idea

[glacial knot]

That's why I have the Roborock that can also mop the floor

[clear ferry]

I'm waiting for a new 400v cap for my roborock

it fails charging

[glacial knot]

imagines a baseball cap on the lidar

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/bXjIb.gif

[last cedar]

what is the coldest you have seen your outdoor hue sensor?

Not sure when it stops working 🤣

And we are in the warmer bit of Sweden atm

[glacial knot]

y'all are freezing up there 😮

[static schooner]

I don't understand why early settlers decided to stay there

[gleaming crater]

It's a balmy 7c where I'm at lol

[static schooner]

Let's just cover ourselves in animal fur and still probably get frostbite vs maybe move south?

[gleaming crater]

with global warming they're the next beachfront destination lol

[static schooner]

54F == light pullover weather

[glacial knot]

But south is where other people are

[gleaming crater]

Yeah those jerks

[static schooner]

Surely the Vikings could have cleared them out

I guess it's the whole King of the North thing

[glacial knot]

with the nordics, the problem isn't the fighting. It's interacting with others at all

[static schooner]

Somebody has to guard the wall

[gleaming crater]

Well it’s not working we’re flooded with brainless zombies down here

[static schooner]

Hold the Door, as it were

[primal laurel]

We want cold weather for Elfsteden tocht

[static schooner]

<- sweet summer child

[gleaming crater]

I’d rather it be cold while I’m in my hot tub than hot trying to cool off

[glacial knot]

the good thing about temperature is, warm to hot tea is the fix for both

[primal laurel]

Ice coffee

[gleaming crater]

I'm never patient enough to make coffee ahead of time for that

My coffee pot is the least automatic thing in the house lol

[last cedar]

Pretty cozy inside, although the air handler is beginning to struggle

The -13.4C outside air is being warmed up by the inside 17.7C air to 15.4C

[gleaming crater]

Is that a multi-zone system?

[last cedar]

It will have to defrost a few times I think

Just a single unit, one set of ducting for out, one for in

So everything is one zone

[gleaming crater]

Ahh couldn't tell from that UI

I have the gocontrol z-wave thermostat, it has the temp on it and nothing else. Doesn't even have a scheduling feature lol

[last cedar]

Yellow is air from house, red is to house. Brown is exhaust, blue intake.

[last cedar]

We only have an outdoor thermostat (decides temp on the hot water to radiators) and then trvs on each radiator, which determine flow

[primal laurel]

Is that a groundwater heatpump or just a normal one?

[last cedar]

It isn't actually a heatpump, mechanical air in and out and a rotary heat exchanger for recycling heat leaving the building (and cooling incoming air if cellar is colder than the outside)

Then we have pellets that warms a 500L tank of water for radiators and hot water

Idea is to have solar panels and use a heatpump unless it is very cold, in the future

[gleaming crater]

Heatpumps are where it's at for efficiency anyways

Someone just came up with a new design too that uses capacitive electricity in the heat exchanger for a boost

https://arstechnica.com/science/2023/11/capacitor-based-heat-pumps-see-big-boost-in-efficiency/

[last cedar]

Mmm, wallet isn't ready to buy one yet, though 🤣

[gleaming crater]

Totally, it was 10k just for the heat pump on my house hooked to the existing air exchange system

[prisma briar]

I got a 3 ton DIY minisplit heat pump kit with 4 heads for about 4 grand and installed it myself. The lines were all precharged and had quick connects that snapped in so I didn't have to evac or charge the lines at all.

I would have been eligible for around $2000 in rebates from my power company but I had to have had it professionally installed for that which was going to add about $6000 onto the price.

[gleaming crater]

Crazy lol

I had to have them change type of pump because the old one wasn't available anymore, and the city requires a 24hr pressure test inspection before you're allow to charge it

They fill with nitrogen up to some crazy PSI and it's gotta keep pressure for a day or it's not allowed to have refrigerant in it

[prisma briar]

I have the previous generation of this https://mrcool.com/diy-4th-generation-multi-zone/

I was technically supposed to get a permit for it, but only because I was installing an appliance worth over $1500

And I didn't learn that until after I installed it, so whoops

[gleaming crater]

Yeah I know my city specifically has stricter rules for these

[prisma briar]

Basically everyone I've told I got precharged quick connect refigerant lines to has immediately gone "wtf?"

[gleaming crater]

Haha exactly, didn't know you could even buy a pre-charged unit

[prisma briar]

It saved a lot of money and having a four zone minisplit is nice

[gleaming crater]

I thought about smart vents but the one brand went out of biz during covid I think

[prisma briar]

I liked in the instructions where it had torque guides for the connections then below said if you don't have a torque wrench just don't overtighten it

A problem with smart vents is if you close off too many vents you'll put a lot of extra load on your hvac blower and burn it out

[gleaming crater]

Oh for sure you gotta be smart about it

I do tell my house what temp it is, I thought about dropping unoccupied rooms out of the average

[primal laurel]

I hope to make an open source algorithm to optimise the heatpump controller the coming year

Save people some money

[gleaming crater]

How so

[prisma briar]

I have a mix of zoned heat pump, zoned resistive, and central gas heat for my heat so automating it has been tricky.

I find myself manually controlling it more often than not

[gleaming crater]

Ahh yeah multi-source I could see wanting to make your own state engine for that

[primal laurel]

I work with a company that designs heat pumps for my thesis, trying to find optimal setpoint control algorithms for their heat pumps

[gleaming crater]

Oh like a better PID?

[primal laurel]

No that's the embedded software which they already have, this will be one level higher

[gleaming crater]

basically can you run it smarter in a way that's cheaper

[prisma briar]

My minisplit heads have the temperature sensor in the heads which causes them to not be the most accurate, but they also support overriding the detected temperature with a wall-mounted remote that constantly blasts out the room temperature over IR. I was considering setting up HA to emulate that remote so I could have more control over my system.

[primal laurel]

Also considering electrical congestion, dynamic pricing, whatever I can come up with or what seems useful

[primal laurel]

Yeah basically. Haven't started yet

[gleaming crater]

I really just want mine to be smarter about the relative outside temp

As a modifier to set point

Or just turn itself off when opening a door/window is better than trying to do it with electricity and tell me as much

[primal laurel]

Yeah exactly

But I first need some kind of mathematical model to estimate heating demand

[prisma briar]

Ugh, one of the people I live with keeps sealing himself in a room with a gaming PC/large TV and turning on the A/C when it gets hot in there, even though it's the middle of winter and he could just open a window.

[gleaming crater]

Good lord as I'm talking about this, the 11 yr old just decided to start effing with the tablet in the kitchen and turned on the AC trying to turn the heat up

[glacial knot]

I had a couple days last year that I turned on the heat in the morning and the AC in the afternoon D:

[gleaming crater]

That'st he other thing I want, an automation that's smart about not being in heat or cool mode depending on outside temp

So I can't get AC when it's cold and vice versa

[static schooner]

That's why I'm not a fan of the auto heat/cool settings

Temperature fluctuations often take care of themselves given time

[glacial knot]

only really a benefit if you have a fan and some way to open/close the windows automatically to substitute the AC

[gleaming crater]

I can have the house speakers tell people to open the door/window lol

[static schooner]

I do that, but it's all manual

And it's a pain

[glacial knot]

yea, the thing I'd really want is some linea actuators on my windows, so I can automate air exchange with the outside

especially over night. To cool down the place in summer

[gleaming crater]

They have those attic pump fans

[prisma briar]

I've resisted the urge to have Home Assistant speakers yell orders at people when things like outside doors are left open. I've stuck to more tactful mobile app notifications for now.

[glacial knot]

I use notify to send a message to my phone when it's time to close them
But depending on the weather, I dont' want to open them in the evening so they are open over night

[prisma briar]

Only thing I have yell right now is when a smoke alarm goes off

[primal laurel]

You can have the system on full auto with your own preferences. The company I work with produces all electronics in their own R&D lab so i have quite some freedom

[gleaming crater]

The number of times I've told the kid to close the damn door this winter is too damn high

[solar zealot]

Using voice assistant as theft device to open windows for intruders ^^

[prisma briar]

My HA can open my garage door

[gleaming crater]

You mean yelling "alexa unlock front door" thru the door itself?

[prisma briar]

I don't have any automations that control my garage door, I just like being able to use my phone as an opener

[glacial knot]

voice recognition to map commands to users in HA when?

[gleaming crater]

I just have automations that make the light switches blink when they're left open

[primal laurel]

I made something for HA that uses the position of the sun to control the position of the sun blinds. That also helps

[solar zealot]

Hehe

[glacial knot]

my only proper blinds are on the north side D:

[prisma briar]

I get a notification on my phone when the door is left open for 5 minutes but that's it

[gleaming crater]

I get the notification that i'm heating/cooling the outdoors with an actionable to shut off the system

[prisma briar]

My HA will start yelling if it gets too cold or hot anywhere too, so if the garage gets near freezing it'll start complaining

[gleaming crater]

I'd rather it just shut off the system and let me turn it back on lol

Or preemptively turn it off before it'll kick on

That'll teach em to close the door or they'll freeze/cook to death

[prisma briar]

I have a dumb thermostat wired in parallel with my smart thermostat on my central heat, the dumb one is set to 60F, so hopefully it'll never get below that in here.

[gleaming crater]

See that's great until it's 58f on a summer morning and the heat kicks on

That's why I want temp-aware heating

I'd let that shiz ride

[prisma briar]

If it's 58F inside my furnace closet in the middle of my house something is wrong

[gleaming crater]

True lol

[prisma briar]

The periphery of my house is likely far colder at that point

[gleaming crater]

Yeah I send my thermostat it's temp remotely, which is great until I reboot HA and the local temp is enough to make it turn on the heat or AC lol

Tho time to take the real thermostat object off my tablet dashboard and replace it with a version that can't go beyond strict limits

[prisma briar]

I'm not fond of the idea of using HA to limit what people can do, but I also don't live with kids.

[gleaming crater]

Lol I'll just make a template device that can't go beyond what I wanna allow

[prisma briar]

The closest I've done to that is make lights that turn off after 15 minutes of no presence detection

Because people don't know how to turn a light off

[gleaming crater]

My motion sensors work so well my family no longer knows how to turn anything on or off lol

[prisma briar]

When I first set mine up I had presence detection to turn lights on but was manually turning them off, but nobody else was capable of turning them back off.

[primal laurel]

Ideally you wouldn't have to touch the thermostat at all, if it was properly controlled

[glacial knot]

yea, I just use my presence detection for lights

[gleaming crater]

Lol that's the hope, on a cold, windy day like today it should be smart enough to bump it up another degree for me

Vs when it's not so far off from ideal outside

[prisma briar]

I have an alarm mode for my HA that'll run a script to randomly flash all the lights in the house on and off, play loud noises, and call my cell phone when motion or a door sensor is detected inside

[gleaming crater]

I went so far as to setup timer objects for my motion automations so they'd still get shut off after a HA reboot

[primal laurel]

Doesn't it just keep the setpoint temperature?

Or you want it to be warmer

[gleaming crater]

For my house 70f is great unless it's very cold then I might go to 71

[prisma briar]

I have a button in HA that turns off all the lights in my house I use after a reboot or power outage

adjusting the temperature seems like it'd be compensating for bad PID implementation

[glacial knot]

I have an automation to turn off lights (and then start some things as intended) after HA starts

[gleaming crater]

It's an average of the entire house, I think I get more extremes in the colder temps

[glacial knot]

the all off is triggered by geolocation tag with my phone, or phone's absence from the network for 5 minutes (to cover issues with the VPN)

[gleaming crater]

Lol if I turned off all the lights after a reboot my wife would be pissed

[prisma briar]

I only made mine turn off automated lights, I leave manual ones like bedroom lights alone

Though they do all default to on after an outage

[gleaming crater]

Eww what brand

[prisma briar]

Hue and WiZ

[gleaming crater]

I thought they could restore state after power loss on hue

[prisma briar]

Not sure, I never looked into it

[gleaming crater]

Unless you really enjoy a middle of the night power flicker turning everything full blast lol

[prisma briar]

I want it like this, it gives the option to flip a physical switch off and back on if HA craps itself.

I don't think I've ever woken up to my lights being unexpectedly on from a power flicker

[glacial knot]

you have manual lights? o.0

[gleaming crater]

Eh I have smart switches with smart bulbs in the fixtures, I live in the land of overkill lol

[prisma briar]

Manual as in I have zigbee dimmer knobs

[primal laurel]

Power flicker?

[glacial knot]

It's a setting in the app
You can pick a specific setting or keep the last

[prisma briar]

I put a dimmer knob on my headboard on my bed, it's great.

[primal laurel]

My hue bulbs go to full brightness after they lost power and turn back on. So essentially working like a normal lightbulb

[glacial knot]

Is that some 3rd world country issue? 😕

[gleaming crater]

Usually duing a storm

[prisma briar]

All the power here is underground

[gleaming crater]

I live in washington, we have a fuckton of trees lol

And above ground power lines

[prisma briar]

It gets way too windy here for above ground

[gleaming crater]

Only new development has underground lines

[primal laurel]

Medium and low voltage grids are underground in NL, high voltage is above ground

[prisma briar]

It's pretty regional in the US

[gleaming crater]

It's pretty rare that I lose power regardless, at worse it's just a flicker when trees are bashing the lines haha

I just got a letter they're gonna trim one of my trees near a line

[prisma briar]

They send crews around here every year to trim trees back from lines

[gleaming crater]

The letter I got promised it was gonna be ugly after haha

"we don't trim the tree to look balanced"

[prisma briar]

The tree they trimmed by my house is like 1m outside my property line onto the city's property so they didn't send anything to me

I don't have any trees anymore. There were three old way overly-trimmed sickly pine trees here when I moved in and I took them all out.

They would've been nice trees if the previous owners didn't trim them back to sticks in most areas

[gleaming crater]

I'd feel odd if I didn't have multiple trees on my lot

I've planted 2 more since I bought the place

[prisma briar]

I ripped out every tree and bit of grass when I moved in, lol

[primal laurel]

In NL its simple, we don't have space for trees

[prisma briar]

Astroturf in the back, xeroscaped the front

[primal laurel]

If you have space you are probably a millionaire

[prisma briar]

My back yard (where two of the trees were) is only 4m x 6m

[gleaming crater]

Lol I planted one of these in my back yard https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liriodendron_tulipifera

They get up to 190ft/59m

[prisma briar]

My front yard is like 10m x 6m

[primal laurel]

Maybe the king has some space in his garden for one of those

[gleaming crater]

That's one thing uniquely american, going out camping to real wilderness

Being able to go entirely off grid, go camp in a forest and swim in a river and have no cell service or anything

[prisma briar]

It's getting harder and harder to get away from cell service

[primal laurel]

Lol, wilderness. I'd have to go very far east to run into that

[gleaming crater]

I have national parks in my back yard, I love camping on Mount Rainer

[prisma briar]

I'm like 10km from a 4km tall mountain

[primal laurel]

The closest I've seen to wilderness was probably the woods in finland

But even there I had 5G

[gleaming crater]

Last time I went out of cell service I came back and my job had been hit by ransomeware hahahaha

https://tenor.com/view/혼파망-피자-당황-community-chaos-gif-16635574

I came back to work like this

[prisma briar]

lol

We got hacked a couple years ago when a coworker left his ssh keys on a public facing webserver (he was fired quickly) but IDS picked up on it and we had his account locked out in seconds.

[primal laurel]

Shouldn't fire people for that

[prisma briar]

Yea you should

That is 100% inexcusable

[gleaming crater]

That sounds like gross negligence

[junior blade]

new user- hey all

[primal laurel]

That's how you get cover up culture

[prisma briar]

These were keys that had explicit policies and were never supposed to leave our work laptops. They were also supposed to have passphrases on them.

They had access to everything

[gleaming crater]

I mean the ransomware at my old job was a new VP of IT giving out a domain admin password over the phone to users, so they could migrate to the new domain

His ass got fiiiiiiired

I found proof that migration account logged into a server the first time the morning of the attack

[primal laurel]

Perhaps you shouldn't create keys which have access to everything

Shit happens, better prepare for it

Firing the guy doesn't solve anything

[prisma briar]

Yea it does, it gets rid of a clear weak link and problem.

I have no idea how you look at that and think the guy was innocent

[gleaming crater]

Heh in NL you couldn't fire them for that anyways without a lot of red tape

[prisma briar]

You just can't trust someone like that after that happens.

[primal laurel]

A lot of things went wrong before those keys even made it on the server

[prisma briar]

This wasn't a mistake, it was a flagrant and blatant violation of policy by someone who knew better.

[gleaming crater]

I don't think yall are gonna agree on this one

[primal laurel]

Nobody does that on purpose

Not saying there shouldnt be accountability

[prisma briar]

He was setting up PHP scripts to sign into things using those keys to automate tasks

[primal laurel]

But firing someone for that is the worst thing you could do

After that nobody dares to speak their mouth again

[prisma briar]

Which was equally stupid because we literally have internal servers for that

He didn't speak up, IDS flagged the session and our security guy caught it.

There was absolutely nothing accidental about any of it.

[gleaming crater]

Most places that would be enough corp policy violations for a termination anyways

[primal laurel]

So he did it on purpose? That's a different story

[glacial knot]

Software SSH keys 🤢

[prisma briar]

Yes, he did it on purpose. He created copies of his keys that weren't passphrased so he could automate tasks outside of our purpose-built automation systems.

[gleaming crater]

What's the saying, never attribute to malice what can be caused by stupidity?

[prisma briar]

Which he was literally on the team who maintained and could have added anything he wanted to the internal systems

[prisma briar]

Our login process was revamped after that

[primal laurel]

If you know it's wrong but still do it then sure fire them. I thought this was accidental. I've pushed keys onto GitHub by accident multiple times but my bots catch it 😅

[prisma briar]

Accidentally posting passwords happens

I've had to rotate passwords because I posted them in slack before

[gleaming crater]

Sounded like dude was just being peak lazy

[glacial knot]

I was told (though haven't seen it in action) that our passwords get automatically revoked when sent in the wrong window
Apparently every form field that's not on the login page is checked against the password (synced for local OS login either way) and if it matches a revocation process is started

[gleaming crater]

So you can't be like the whitehouse secertary and post your twitter password two days in a row?

[prisma briar]

Anymore I'd have to post multiple passwords and a yubikey in chat to get anything compromised

[glacial knot]

we can still post it. But it's not valid for fresh logins at approximately the same time

[prisma briar]

I realized Linux has no password length or character restrictions so my passwords are like 300 characters of non-ascii gibberish anymore.

[gleaming crater]

I mean after about 20ish characters you're already past theoretical cracking limits

[prisma briar]

Yea but when keepass is pasting it in either way what's it matter?

[gleaming crater]

Lol that one time you gotta key it in by hand for some reason

I'm a fan of the several word generated ones from bitwarden

[prisma briar]

I don't think I could type in alt codes fast enough for it to not time the login out

[glacial knot]

ye, my password is synced to be the OS login password

[gleaming crater]

Like Delay!Nintendo!Waltz!Phonebook!Creatable2

[glacial knot]

and I don't want to weaken it by making it auto-typed by presence detection yubikey fake keyboard or something weird

[gleaming crater]

My gripe is the places that limit password length, like how shithouse do you gotta be to operate like that?

[glacial knot]

SSO is a hard requirement for us

[gleaming crater]

Lol don't get me started on the no SSO in HA rabbithole

[primal laurel]

What do you mean?

[glacial knot]

the only work related login I'm not logging in via the corp account is my equity management
And that's because I need to have continued access after exiting

[glacial knot]

I think it's the only service I run in my homenet that actualy trusts the ip range :/

[primal laurel]

I've seen several API encryption systems prepare for quantum computing when the algorithms we use now become much easier to crack (I don't know the specifics)

[gleaming crater]

Just the typical time it would take to search the password/hash space for something that long

And yeah they're trying to come up with 'post quantum' encryption

[glacial knot]

are there quantum algorithms that make cracking something like Argon2 significantly easier? 🤔

[primal laurel]

https://crypto.stackexchange.com/questions/101066/is-argon2-quantum-safe

[glacial knot]

quantum computers aren't magically faster. They can solve some problems easier
They are mostly interesting to attack asymmetric encryption, since they essentially allow to P=NP a specific group of problems

[primal laurel]

Should be okay...?

[glacial knot]

yea, I would have been surprised if there's any expectation of quantum computers having a large impact on it. That's why I asked

[prisma briar]

apache + ldap authentication mod + proxy pass can do it

I use that approach for some legacy internal apps developed before we had LDAP

[glacial knot]

I'm mainly too lazy to setup some api keys for the few automations I have that use the API

And I don't trust the phone app to work with non-standard login screens

[gleaming crater]

will that work with the mobile app?

[prisma briar]

Probably not

[gleaming crater]

See that's where the rub is, it's gotta be officially supported in some regard or you have to leave your system exposed to use the mobile app

[glacial knot]

I wonder if the app supports client certificates by some OS client magic

[gleaming crater]

Nooooooooope

Short of forking the app and releasing your own build anyways

[glacial knot]

can't sideload on my phone due to corp policies D:

[gleaming crater]

If we all just pool together and hire a dev full time to implement and maintain this feature…

[ocean oar]

Just never leave the house and you won't have to worry about any of this 😛

[glacial knot]

Not sure what you mean

[prisma briar]

I just hide everything behind a VPN

My VPN does LDAP auth, does that count? :P

[gleaming crater]

Yeah there's always-on vpn, I just wish they'd fix the dns leak on iOS already

[prisma briar]

Guys I think speedtest.net might cheat

I just got a 400Mbps download through my vpn to home

My home uplink is far from 400Mbps

[glacial knot]

I vpn into my homenet, but still auth every service individually out of principle

[prisma briar]

I use vlans to restrict the locations services within my house can be accessed

Except for HA since multiple people use that

[ocean oar]

Ugh, speedtest.net causes us so many problems at work. Mostly people not understanding that their default is to use as many parallel connections as it takes to saturate the connection, while the app(s) people are actually using remotely through our VPN are entirely "single-threaded".

[prisma briar]

It's just giving me entirely impossible speed results now

[ocean oar]

We ended up installing our own (https://github.com/librespeed/speedtest) (accessible outside the VPN with our enterprise SSO, and inside the VPN directly) and pointing the users to it. Much more indicative results

[prisma briar]

On my desktop I get 115/10 on my Verizon 5G connection, when my cell phone is VPNed to that same Verizon 5G connection it gets 450/25.

And my Comcast connection is just fucking MIA again

Lol, it's been down for like 3 days and I hadn't noticed.

[ocean oar]

Guess the failover works 🤷‍♂️

[prisma briar]

Fun, the modem froze.

[primal laurel]

well it is pretty cold

[gleaming crater]

https://tenor.com/view/dad-jokes-drums-ba-dum-tss-gif-15046720

[prisma briar]

This was due to VPN compression, btw.

Not exactly sure how but it goes away when VPN compression is turned off

[dusky plank]

yes

[prisma briar]

I remember people trying to send me pictures over omegle way back when and it was always a .exe

[static schooner]

The internet always bends toward porn, hacking, and scams

Oh, and cat/raccoon memes. But those are acceptable

[primal laurel]

https://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/18z8w2g/star_citizen_introducing_a_48000_ship_bundle_but/

[prisma briar]

Average American breaker box

[ocean oar]

Yay for multi-coloured spaghetti vomit

Not that I can claim any superiority in this regard, the switchboard in our place is nasty

Behold, probably the cheapest circuit breakers money can buy, a double-wide RCBO (bathroom), and two definitely-not-original breakers added for night storage heaters (subsequently re-purposed for heat pump, and comms rack)

House is from 1991, so I feel like some of this is definitely inexcusable

On the (perhaps) upside, the cable is fine, and since this box is recessed, the replacement can basically be enacted by installing the new one on top of it

[prisma briar]

Mine is actually pretty clean without the energy sensor shoved in

[gleaming crater]

Man I'm liking the new search in the automation builder, but it really needs to let you hit enter to pick the top/only result without clicking

[red rock]

Lmao last week we were at a friend who built his own house

or is building

and we were standing at the breaker box for like 20 minutes talking about it

and then the women of the group came by and were like

wth are you all doing

[gleaming crater]

"man stuff"

I had one contractor tell me I should install a new box just because it wasn't made in the last 20 years because "maybe this one will go bad some day" and I was like "cool I'll call you then"

The next contractor was like 'why? half the town has this same box!'

[red rock]

"I am special"

[iron granite]

Does it have RGB lighting?

[red rock]

it did have zigbee

he wired every switch and light back to the breaker

[gleaming crater]

wat

[red rock]

so all the dimmer units were put on a dim rail

and there was a raspi on the dimrail

[red rock]

yep lol

[gleaming crater]

Sounds like someone should call a pro lol

[red rock]

He knows what he's doing

I know that much

[iron granite]

Boo! No Power-over-Zigbee

[gleaming crater]

Where's my room sized qi chargers

[red rock]

lmao

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/he-man-i-have-the-power-sword-gif-12807613

[gleaming crater]

I need to figure out what the heck is for dinner around here

[prisma briar]

wheee

[blazing musk]

I thought you posted my box pic lol

Down to the Vue

[prisma briar]

I just got it wired and was taking the pic to know which phase the 240v clamps were on

[blazing musk]

Hopefully you don't have too many issues with the plugs popping out

[prisma briar]

Everything seems fine right now

I've got one circuit reading 0w but I think it might not actually have anything plugged in

[blazing musk]

I had to do this https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:6003707

[prisma briar]

If I have issues I'll figure something out

Probably just wrap around it in packing tape or something

[blazing musk]

Yeah, I was gonna say redneck fix would be duct tape

[prisma briar]

I don't think I'm going to have many issues, I don't foresee myself going into the breaker box often

[blazing musk]

I go in way more than I expect. I just installed a whole home surge protector after reports a blown transformer nearby damaged some people's electronics.

[prisma briar]

All of my electronics are on UPSes

I have way too many UPSes, heh

[blazing musk]

We're talking even GFCI outlets

[prisma briar]

Not sure what relevance a gfci has to a surge

[blazing musk]

There are electronics inside to operate the interruption. The surge overpowered and destroyed them

I have 3 UPS and innumerable surge protecting power strips but a device that installs in less than 5 minutes and takes care of everything was good peace of mind

https://www.se.com/us/en/product/HOM250PSPD/surge-protection-device-homeline-whole-home-50ka-120-240-vac-1-phase-3-wire-spd-type-2/

Obviously only for square d homeline panels

One of many options

[iron granite]

Someone of my neighbors is using a Switchbot Bot without password protection

[static schooner]

you'll need to experiment to see if you can figure out what it controls

[iron granite]

[solar zealot]

As a switchbot bot it may control switch bots

[iron granite]

Maybe it serves Switchbots and needs to be liberated

Release the Roomba!

[primal laurel]

grandpa's life support

[static schooner]

Curtains...open!

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/fire-the-laser-austin-powers-laser-surprised-shocked-gif-17302164

[prisma briar]

why is this even in my garage

Found it behind a cabinet I recently tore down

[static schooner]

Refrigerator/freezer?

[iron granite]

Compressor

[prisma briar]

I'm in the US though

[static schooner]

I found a mystery plug with dedicated 20A circuit in the back of one of my kitchen cabinets that I think was intended for a trash compactor

I was going to ask about that - what's up with the non-US plug

is it 220?

[prisma briar]

Wires were all cut

[static schooner]

bizarre

[iron granite]

Then it is a 0 V plug

[static schooner]

tool holder

[prisma briar]

Some of the house being previously wired for euro standard would explain some weirdness I've found in the breaker box

There's a few circuits on linked breakers that normally wouldn't be that would explain

[solar zealot]

Yes they knew which plugs were good

[iron granite]

https://tenor.com/view/star-wars-lightsaber-obiwankenobi-obi-gif-19677892

[static schooner]

Seems like that would surprise any home inspector

[solar zealot]

Probably why it was hidden away

[static schooner]

And here's our global outlet museum/aka garage

[solar zealot]

Maybe there is a proper 400v one hidden behind some light fixture

Well never know

[static schooner]

I was amused when I got one of the universal adapters with an electric kettle that the flat US-style blades can be angled for Australian-style plugs

[prisma briar]

I'd be surprised, I don't have 400v

[static schooner]

the pattern to handle all the worldwide variants is pretty complicated

[solar zealot]

All we would need is two scissors

[prisma briar]

I'd go with a couple deck screws personally

[ocean oar]

Also appliances with 2-pin type-A US plugs you can generally turn into a type-I with a sturdy pair of pliers 😉

[static schooner]

The reason as to why the dimensions of the Australian type I are very similar to those of type A is because the Australasian standard is actually an obsolete type of American plug. It was patented in 1916 by Harvey Hubbell II, the same electrical engineer who had invented the type A plug. Hubbell’s three-blade design never proved popular in the U.S. because of its incompatibility with the existing type A plug, but it was favoured in Australia over the British type D system, because it was easier for local manufacturers to make plugs with flat pins rather than round ones. In the 1930s, the predominant Australian electrical accessory manufacturers, along with the State Electricity Commission of Victoria, decided to standardize on Hubbell’s design.

[ocean oar]

The other fun thing is Chinese plugs, which are the same but upside down. Lots of cheap electronics have cables that go "up" relative to our outlets.

Also AU/NZ have mandated half-insulated phase/neutral pins (same as UK and EU plugs) since 2005, but Chinese ones don't. So you do find the odd non-compliant cable

[static schooner]

I don't think I've seen one of those

looks like the one at the link I got that snippet from has it: https://www.worldstandards.eu/electricity/plugs-and-sockets/i/

along with the switches, which always seems weird to me

[ocean oar]

The other neat party trick is there are 10/15/20/25/32A versions, which make subtle changes to the size/shape of the pins:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AS/NZS_3112#Variants
So you can always use a higher-rated socket for a lower-rated appliance

[static schooner]

yeah, was reading about that

[ocean oar]

That style of 32A is quite common for things like large espresso machines

[static schooner]

We have a slightly different outlet for 15A and 20A (20A has one blade rotated 90 degrees), but I don't think I own a single appliance with the 20A variant

[solar zealot]

Kinda questionable that we didn't end up with cee plugs on consumer devices

[prisma briar]

I have a 6-20 in one room too

20a 240v nema plug

There was a broken air conditioner hanging on that when I moved in

[ocean oar]

Weirdest thing I've ever seen in a residential location was this, at my in-laws' place.
This is the AU/NZ equivalent of a 60309 20A single phase socket, which we know as a 56C320 ("56" because the original "56 series" were IP56, 3 = 3 conductors, 20 = 20A)

You do sometimes see these (more frequently the 32A version) used for EV chargers. But this one is around the back of their house, mounted to the soffit, just about as far from the road as it's possible to be

That it says "UPS A" on it suggests it was recycled from a datacentre, but its presence is... perplexing

[static schooner]

The switch makes it safe

[blazing musk]

https://media.tenor.com/JrFvJit7niAAAAAM/stare-finger.gif

[golden wing]

Ignoring the ground prong booooo

[umbral cliff]

That american plug may not even have a ground

[golden wing]

Usually the ones without a ground have a lip

And aren’t as bulky

[static schooner]

The shape suggests it has one, but the neutral and ground are connected together

All kinds of wrong

[golden wing]

Well in America neutral and ground do sometimes end up in the same place in the circuit breaker

[static schooner]

They always do

[golden wing]

Yeah so it’s just simplifying the process 😂

Who needs fault protection

[static schooner]

Well, I guess you can ground to the box if it's a grounded metal box

[umbral cliff]

And tripping a RCD too lol

[clear ferry]

TIL my switch does not enjoy less than 0c

it reports +3c

but it randomly reboots

-26c outside

[glacial knot]

I'm pretty sure I used my switch in freezing temps before o.0

but it's not super comfy to game while wearing winter clothes 😮

[blazing musk]

They always do, the idea is that the neutral is intended to be used as a return path and may have differing potential between different points, and the ground is intended as a reference and safety measure

[clear ferry]

My blade enclosure did the same, rebooted on -0c

[glacial knot]

dunno about blades. I only have a bow here 😮

[clear ferry]

Just to amuze @umbral cliff I just went outside for 4 minutes in my tshirt and no socks to fill up on firewood

[blazing musk]

my brother went out in just underwear a couple of times on our rare snow days as a teenager

[clear ferry]

rare snow days sounds like around 0

I usually don't bother with a jacket until we pass -10c

[last cedar]

@clear ferry so cold now?

Want to come and warm up a bit with me?

[clear ferry]

That's hot

New record for Oslo last night

-31.6

[last cedar]

Oh wow

Strange how much difference it is yet quite close

[forest edge]

in the older days there use to be proprietary connections for various appliances/tools. regulations weren't exactly in place and enforced

if you ever see an old electric tool like a power drill where there cord was mended together with tape/wrap there is a chance it was to replace the plug with the more common upcoming two prong outlets

[forest edge]

Haven't seen @tidal bronze in here since before new years. hope that grass eating calfornian survived the holiday

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/were-very-close-very-close-close-friends-with-buddies-gif-15122387

[umbral cliff]

Fuck that

I don't like to go out without a jumper once it drops below 15

[prisma briar]

That's a euro style plug.

[forest edge]

back then companies would use whatever they wanted. it's no diffrent than today with the vast amount of diffrent 240 plugs and outlets cept these days the 3 prong is more standardized due to stricter regulations that were not enforced years ago

[umbral cliff]

I find it weird that the USA doesn't have a set outlet standard even for 240

[forest edge]

$$$

[umbral cliff]

Other countries managed it

[prisma briar]

There are outlet standards for 240v here

Not sure what you're talking about

[forest edge]

stull like stoves etc

[prisma briar]

There's specs down to 15a 240v hookups

[forest edge]

but look at generator

look at RV's

all kinds of diffrent styles used

[prisma briar]

They're standardized on voltage/amperage

[umbral cliff]

If theres a standard but people don’t follow it then thats silly

But less silly than no standard

[prisma briar]

They're generally followed by manufacturers

Sonoma is literally talking about 80+ year old tools at this point, modern polarized plugs have been a thing for a long time.

[forest edge]

how old is your home with the plug in question?

[prisma briar]

1970s, but again, it's a European standard plug, not some weird tool plug.

[forest edge]

i wouldn't go as far at 80+ lol

[prisma briar]

Modern polarized plugs have been mandated since the 1950s

[forest edge]

so the only other explanation is someone imported a british appliance and didn't want to bother rewiring the plug

[prisma briar]

And non-polarized flat plugs were in use since the 20s

[forest edge]

but I have seen and even own a few tools with some strange plugs

so I know that was a thing

[prisma briar]

It's not a UK spec plug, it's a European spec plug.

[umbral cliff]

British plugs aren’t european

[forest edge]

well whatever

[umbral cliff]

lol

[prisma briar]

The nema 10 spec on this is all illegal now, none of them had ground pins.

I recently retrofitted a nema 10-30 to nema 14-30 when I relocated a dryer

Had to run a ground line back to the panel for it

[forest edge]

see your even your retrofitting shit.. you think others before you hadn't? lol

though back then noone would have bothered dotting the i's and crossing the t's

[prisma briar]

I know people before me did electrical work, lol

I've been going through and cleaning up messes like conduit boxes mounted with drywall anchors

[forest edge]

he's usign a hatchet for drywall.. if that dosen't give you an indicator of what shit was like then and even before then I don't know what would lol https://www.youtube.com/shorts/OO-cRlPaiso

[prisma briar]

Have you never scored and broken drywall before?

[forest edge]

not with a hatchet

[prisma briar]

We do the same thing now, we just use disposable blades

[forest edge]

exactly or pocket knifes

not a hatchet...

[prisma briar]

I recently got an oscillating multi tool and it cuts through installed drywall like butter, it's so nice.

https://www.amazon.com/RYOBI-PCL430B-Ryobi-Multi-Tool/dp/B0B11CJ52Y

It's crazy how those will go through a 2x4 but you can mash them into your hand and they do nothing.

[forest edge]

that hatchet in that video probably has it's own part number and is recommended by the company that made the gypsum

back then people didn't care.. whatever worked.. worked and eletrical wiring was no diffrent

even professionals was able to cut corners by today's standards

[prisma briar]

A hatchet was also likely a tool a lot more people had on hand in that era, were familiar with using, and familiar with sharpening and maintaining.

Most of the uses for a hatchet have fallen out of the mainstream so people don't have experience with them anymore.

[forest edge]

also why quality was way better back then and shit was made to last.. people didn't have tolerance for cheap chinese stuff

[prisma briar]

With how easily and cleanly it cuts that drywall it was a sharp hatchet

I'd be hard pressed to get that straight of a cut with a razor today.

Without a guide at least

I had to jump onto my dad a couple months ago because he was using grounding lines as neutral because he didn't want to run more wires.

[umbral cliff]

No because cheap wasn't a thing

[prisma briar]

Yea, that "Old shit was made to last" attitude misses that old shit was also basically inaccessible to most people.

[forest edge]

it was, just not flooded like it is today

plastic back then was way weaker than the plastic we have now

[prisma briar]

I also think there's a survivorship bias. All the cheap crap from then broke and was forgotten about, all we see is the stuff that remains.

[forest edge]

the stuff that remains was made with the intention of lasting, not the intention of repeat customers

old tv's for an example were tanks

I had a console unit that was passed down to me that I used for many many years before HD stuff became a thing

[prisma briar]

A late 90s LCD has way more of a chance of working right and having a correct image than a CRT from the same era.

CRTs actively degraded from use and had an hour count from the factory

They were the opposite of made to last

[forest edge]

newer crt's sure

[prisma briar]

Any CRT

It's just a side effect of the technology

[forest edge]

maybe statistics sides with your statement. don't know just know every older tv I ever had lasted longer than I needed it

these days I hear 5 years is getting lucky

and don't even get me started on appliances like fridges and stoves

[prisma briar]

They had burn-in if the image stayed static too long, they'd get progressively dimmer as they aged, they'd hum and whine, you had to degauss them

CRTs sucked, heh

[forest edge]

they were heavy

[glacial knot]

the TV I use is probably 15 years old at this point. And it's LCD

[prisma briar]

I still have the first LCD I bought in 2006

[glacial knot]

hasn't bought a single TV

I just pick up left overs

[forest edge]

with smart tv's there is alot more to fail sooner

[prisma briar]

I've only had one TV die and it was one my parents got for free with the purchase of a treadmill and gave me, and it was just a broken solder joint.

[umbral cliff]

Between my parents and I we have TVs from 15 years old to 1 year old
All function fine, just of course the older ones aren't 4k

[prisma briar]

Fun fact: All smart tvs are also dumb tvs if you configure them right.

[umbral cliff]

Like what
Even if the smart stuff fails, just connect through HDMI and use whatever you want

Tip, never buy a tv if it forces internet constantly
Which none of the good brands will do

[glacial knot]

yea, I'm considering the upgrade to 4k with HDR capabilities
But ehhh

[prisma briar]

I've never seen one that forces internet

[forest edge]

assuming the way it's done that the stuff that fails dosen't take the other stuff with it

[prisma briar]

Even my friend's cheap ad-riddled Amazon TV doesn't force internet

[umbral cliff]

I only have the year old tv because moved into a new place, wanted a big tv that can do 4k/hdr/etc

[umbral cliff]

Which it doesn't
A lot of TVs from a decade ago have smart capabilities
They work fine even with the smart stuff being now useless

[glacial knot]

most of the content I watch ins't even 1080p because I can't be arsed
But I'd like myself some HDR

[prisma briar]

HDR was a bigger leap than 1080P -> 4K imo

[forest edge]

https://reviewed.usatoday.com/televisions/features/how-long-should-a-tv-last

i call 13 years weak

[glacial knot]

at my usual viewing distance I can tell the difference between 4k and 1080p in a side by side
But not one day 1080p the other 4k

[umbral cliff]

Who cares if your software has failed or no longer supported
As long as you can change to HDMI or terrestrial tv then it'll work fine
Haven't seen a tv fail to do that

[prisma briar]

I'm probably going to have bought three more TVs in the next 13 years, not because any of them broke but because I want new features that'll come out.

[prisma briar]

This is the stupidest article...

[forest edge]

my samsung which is "smart tv" and still technically works is 16 years old BUT I already experince glitches from time to time which made me buy a new one for black friday

[umbral cliff]

What glitches

[forest edge]

so the older the tv's the longer it lasts?

turns on by itself, switches inputs sometimes

not often

[umbral cliff]

Sounds like a device connected to it

Since HDMI CEC can do both of those

[prisma briar]

You keep saying that but it's not true and has never been true.

[forest edge]

cept there wasn't

[young sigil]

I'm still rocking my 2013 65" Panasonic plasma.

[umbral cliff]

So you had a tv sitting with nothing plugged into it?

[forest edge]

I dunno that article i linked kind of suggests otherwise

[umbral cliff]

Not even a cable box?

[prisma briar]

That article you posted is stupid, we've gone over why.

[umbral cliff]

Wow plasma
Now that's old

[prisma briar]

Lol plasma TVs

[young sigil]

Nice and bright.

Good colour.

[forest edge]

it's not just that article.. it's all over the place.. it's the technology

it gives out

[prisma briar]

When those first came out there was a bunch of news stories about people buying them then bringing them to high elevations and them not working.

TVs have always given out

[young sigil]

Power hungry though.

[prisma briar]

Old TVs are not more reliable than newer TVs

[glacial knot]

Nice space heater

[prisma briar]

You just have survivorship bias and are pining for your youth.

[umbral cliff]

Ive seen failed crts
Ive seen failed LCDs
Im sure I'll see failed OLEDs as they become more common

[forest edge]

from my experince I think they were

[umbral cliff]

Things have always aged

[forest edge]

I've seen in burned in crt monitors etc.. just not tv

static images on a tv then just really wasn't a thing

[prisma briar]

So the way they were used changed, that means nothing.

[forest edge]

but even oleds now suffer from burn in

[prisma briar]

A CRT TV would be dealing with static images these days

[forest edge]

so thats a poor example to bring up

[prisma briar]

I've got 6500 hours on my OLED with no burn in

[forest edge]

well burn in it's no secret thing

you just got lucky + the tv's built in anti burn in thing is decent

[umbral cliff]

Online it seems a crt lasts around 15 years on average

[forest edge]

I read about that on ratings before black friday lol

[umbral cliff]

Whilst the data for LCD is skewed due to increasing rates of quality improvement

[forest edge]

yea well there is adiffrence between 90's crt and earlier ones

as time goes shit gets cheaper and crappier

i keep saying that lol

[prisma briar]

OLEDs have come a massive way in the last 5-10 years and burn-in on modern OLEDs is largely a non-concern, unless you leave it on the same image for literal weeks at a time. It's about on par with CRT burn-in at this point.

[umbral cliff]

Eg in the last 15 years we've gone from 720p (HD) being new, to 4k HDR being new

[prisma briar]

You keep saying it but you're still wrong

[umbral cliff]

I have failed to find any evidence saying older TVs lasted longer than newer ones

[forest edge]

this is not proof but literally the first thing that poped up https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-TVs-of-now-not-last-as-long-as-those-that-were-manufactured-20-years-ago

[prisma briar]

fucking quora

I'm done

[forest edge]

not sure how you failed finding anything, let me actually look

[prisma briar]

It's like talking to my dad about politics, you lay everything out clearly and he goes on Google and finds the first rag that resembles his point and assumes everything I've said is wrong.

With zero ability to understand the credibility of said article or zero understanding that you need to put more than two seconds into looking

[forest edge]

you just reject anything that disagrees with your opinion tho so no matter what is linked won't be good enough lol

[prisma briar]

I reject drivel

[umbral cliff]

Most of those actually say it's not worse

Especially since a few of them talk about how things burnt out constantly

[forest edge]

you cannot find an article that dosen't talk about tv age

https://www.cnet.com/tech/home-entertainment/how-long-do-tvs-last-morrisons-mailbag/

it's all over the place

and some nitpick details of what part of tv fails etc etc

[prisma briar]

Most CRTs were rated for like 20-40k hours, LCDs are commonly rated for 60k+ and some near 100k hours.

Also that article is 12 years old

[forest edge]

look at old arcade machines that are still running today

[prisma briar]

Exactly, look at them. Arcade screens are generally horrible and have to be replaced when you buy an old arcade cabinet that was in use.

Burn-in, dim as hell, coil whine

[forest edge]

oh please

i see planety that look perfectly fine

you just cherry pick

[prisma briar]

LOL

k

[umbral cliff]

Old crts had to be repaired with new tubes constantly

[prisma briar]

I'm the one cherry picking here, k

[forest edge]

old old old ones sure

[prisma briar]

"Look, 1% of the devices made in the 60s survived to today, they don't make them like they used to!"

[umbral cliff]

Sonoma probably thinks cars from the 60s are safer too

[forest edge]

i mean..

tank vs paper

you really want to bring that up?

[prisma briar]

ANY tube on ANY crt ages and needs replaced after like 30-60k hours of power-on time or you're going to be looking at a screen that's a fraction of it's original brightness.

[forest edge]

https://tenor.com/view/crushed-can-drink-flat-gif-16415215

[prisma briar]

You really want to bring up crumple zones and automotive fatalities?

Not only did old cars tend to kill their occupants more often they tended to kill everyone around them more too

[glacial knot]

Or the cybertruck has acceptable safety

[prisma briar]

Because they were designed with that heavy duty last forever idea and didn't have proper crumple zones or safety features because those were seen as weakness

[umbral cliff]

So you now hate crumple zones? Prefer the car to crumple up to the drivers body?

[prisma briar]

I bet Sonoma laments the removal of lead paint because of how cleanly it went on, too.

Bring back Asbestos!

[glacial knot]

bring back arsenic beauty products!

[forest edge]

how many cars made in the early 2000's do you think you'll see on the road in say another 30 years or so from now?

[prisma briar]

Such a pretty green

You say that like there's a massive fleet of cars from the 1970s on the road today

[umbral cliff]

Probably the same number of 70s cars

I see quite a few early 2000s cars

[prisma briar]

Fun fact: All those old cars you see at car shows are rebuilt with modern parts inside.

[umbral cliff]

I drive one myself

[forest edge]

you act like those cars still won't be on the road even 30 years from now lol

[prisma briar]

Hopefully they will be illegal by then

[umbral cliff]

Yeah emissions stuff will kill them before they die

[forest edge]

I don't know why you guys backlash against older quality vs newer cheapness.. this is your dollars being wasted lol

[glacial knot]

as well as pedestrian safety

[prisma briar]

Because it's just not a real phenomena. It's survivorship bias, you're looking at the small fraction of cars and devices that lasted and assuming everything from back then lasted the same.

At the end of the day stuff made now is better, in virtually every way, on virtually every product.

[forest edge]

many many older stuff is proven to have been made better

[prisma briar]

Proven? Wtf does that even mean?

[forest edge]

to argue that is crazy

[prisma briar]

You're crazy.

[forest edge]

like appliances etc etc

[prisma briar]

What?

[forest edge]

even houses

[prisma briar]

Older appliances suck, lol.

[umbral cliff]

Ford Pinto? That was a great built car from the 70s

Boom

[forest edge]

and still runs today

seen one the other day

[umbral cliff]

Until you get rear ended

I still see a lot of 90s and early 2000s cars on the road today too though

They all run fine

[prisma briar]

Again, a single instance of a car from the 70s still running today means nothing.

[forest edge]

I don't see much of early 2000 or even 90's vehicles on the road these days

[prisma briar]

I see a hell of a lot more from that era than I do from the 70s, lol

[forest edge]

i drive a 2006 truck.. guess that's early 2000's

but more refering to like 2003 and under

[umbral cliff]

Then you aren't seeing much in your farm then

I see a lot

[glacial knot]

Ehh, there's some truth to it.
we expect things to be like new to be proper these days.

Dead pixel on a 4k TV? Into the trash it goes.
Burned in logo on a CRT? That's live!

Stuff used to be used longer. Didn't necessarily last longer

[forest edge]

prob cause they are more affordable

quality costs $$

[prisma briar]

Scarcity from 99% of the items disintegrating with age costs $$ too

See: Most collectors markets

[glacial knot]

I also wonder when those were last used as daily drivers.
I don't know anyone here that'd drive anything older than maybe 1990 as daily

[forest edge]

I see old stuff that was made to last that still runs good today cost alot

[prisma briar]

How do you know what some random guy driving down the street paid for his car?

[glacial knot]

well, not quite true. We have one guy here
but for him the scuff acceptance applies.

[forest edge]

never seen an auto trader?

[prisma briar]

Ugh, are you trying to compare modern prices for antique collectors items against modern commodities and use the price difference as justification that older is better?

[forest edge]

just makiing the point that those prices directly refect something that is still ticking lol

[umbral cliff]

In that case an ancient rusted hatchet costs more than a new hatchet
Obviously better

[prisma briar]

I could probably find a roman chariot that cost more than my house, should I get that and live in it?

[forest edge]

noone pays a premium price for something that's broken. that's why people buy those cheap and put those newer parts you were talking about in to resell

[glacial knot]

yes. Weird question

[glacial knot]

Nah. Compare traditional production Katana vs. a modern steel sword

[prisma briar]

Wait, so is your argument now that old cars with modern parts are better than modern cars?

[forest edge]

like i said.. cherry pick.. how did you even come to that with what I typed lol

[prisma briar]

That's exactly what you said

I didn't cherry pick or infer anything, that's just clearly what you said.

[forest edge]

you made some outlandish comment about comparing older collector car prices vs modren vehicles.. and I said only the stuff that still ran was getting those premium prices

[prisma briar]

We were discussing old stuff that still works

What relevance do broken down old cars have to anything we've been discussing?

[forest edge]

becauise you said

everything was remade with modren parts

[prisma briar]

Yea, because the old shit from ye olden days wore out and broke

[forest edge]

yet stuff that was not reqorked is the only stuff that cost those price tags you are fixated on

[prisma briar]

AKA the shit you've been evangelizing for this entire time

You were the one who brought up prices at first, man

[umbral cliff]

Sonoma do you think that suspension, brakes, pumps, etc all don't fail?

[forest edge]

just replying to your comments lol

[prisma briar]

You're replying but you're not thinking about it before you do.

[forest edge]

here we go

[forest edge]

so because the wipers were replaced that counts?

confused on your point

[umbral cliff]

Wipers are a short term wear
Suspension, etc are old parts that fail

Anyway I'm out, Sonoma isn't making sense so I give up

[forest edge]

auto traders today are way more confusing then they use to be but you can still clearly see the price diffrences between original vehicles with "mostly" original parts that still run costs more than ones that were reworked

[prisma briar]

We've spent the last half hour basically exclusively clearing up misconceptions you have, yet you keep trying to twist what people are saying and move goalposts and assuming that you're right and everyone else is wrong.

[forest edge]

incorrect..

[prisma briar]

There's no other sane way to interperet the last half hour.

[forest edge]

all I have gotten from you is your obvious lack of liking any opinion that disgrees with your own regardless what is offered.. even if I post 1000 articles saying the same thing you just dismiss it lol

[prisma briar]

You didn't even read what you posted, your links all agreed with what we were saying...

That was even pointed out

wtf, man

[forest edge]

I have personal experince with some older stuff.. pretty sure I'm older than both of you if not both of your combines age yet you refute actual experience over everything no matter what lol

some older stuff was made better

[prisma briar]

🤣

[forest edge]

you may not like that fact

[prisma briar]

"I'm old therefore I'm right"

[forest edge]

but it is a fact none the less lol

[prisma briar]

At this point you've shifted the goalposts so far the locals don't even know what sport they're for.

[forest edge]

you just never really had an argument to begin with lol