the-water-cooler

[clear ferry]

no, I actually know what I'm doing

😄

[solar zealot]

😄

[balmy bough]

where do i upload the ISO to, anyplace specific?

[clear ferry]

the answer is usually whereever you feel like

for proxmox, no idea if it has preferences

[balmy bough]

oh, ok

well, it isn't finding th ISO wherever i upload it to. i will play with it tomorrow, as i have to go get supper...

[steel crag]

now there's the best idea I've heard all day, food.

[solar zealot]

how cursed is running docker inside lxc...

[clear ferry]

Very

Proxmox can run docker native

[steel crag]

I know what I want for dinner for the first time in weeks

[solar zealot]

well its debian based so i guess? tho they recommend an actual qemu vm

[prisma briar]

I run docker in lxc and have a GPU passed through to a docker image inside.

Not my preferred setup but it works

LXC provides basically no security when configured to let docker run within

I only run docker with LXC for organization, and I'm only using LXC because I can pass a consumer GPU through to multiple LXC containers, can't do that with VMs.

I had it as Docker in a VM at first

[prisma briar]

I have xorg running in an LXC container

That was fun to get working

Loads FF in kiosk mode to a page that cycles through my cameras

[dusky plank]

Bros, you forgot frigate friday

Take this

[static schooner]

Everyday is birbday

Definitely not a dog

[sinful ruin]

Searching a discord talking about solar panel, ongrid offgrid. In French is also ok

[clear ferry]

@static plinth has a discord I know @sinful ruin

[static plinth]

I have a couple (use discord for business) but for informal discussion I would recommend https://discord.gg/fyYBVQ5S

[late gate]

@clear ferry since you are the expert. I am between having 4 or 8X U.2 drives in the new server. Since they use special plugs, does it exist cheap controller cards that can handle that many or will it be a IO bottleneck? (the reason is I can get 4TB U2 drives enterprice quality for almost free from someone I know, and from what I know they are reliable

[clear ferry]

I wouldn't, what is the usecase ? there are so many SATA and SAS SSDs out there

I can count on one hand the number of systems I've seen with U2 or U3 in my life

That said, I've seen some homelab newbs use this @late gate

https://global.icydock.com/product_252.html

Still need a hba to connect it to

[late gate]

the use case is cache replacement for lacking M2 slots, and also cause I get them so cheap. from what I understand U2 drives are much faster than f.eks SSD

[clear ferry]

What do you need such excessive amounts of fast cache for?

One nvme will be 10x ssds in performance anyway

[late gate]

isnt the U2 quite comparable to NVME?

The case I am getting from one of my sponsor gor 12x 3.5 and 4x slots for regular ssd. my thougt was to switch the 4x regualr ssd slot to U2 slot, but can also do a nvme slot if you think thats metter (the 4x slot fits in the 5 inch space

[clear ferry]

yes, but what would you need 4x4TB u2 speed devices for ?

[late gate]

for docker and vm storage

then the 12 3.5 as cold storage for things that doesnt need that fast io

[clear ferry]

It's probably gonna be 10x + overkill for that use

(I run 80vms and 80 containers on rust)

[late gate]

probably yes, but I get the choise of 8x free 4tb NVME or U2 drives. Can choose between intel, samsung or micron drives. Its froma good customer that wrongly ordered

[clear ferry]

Then the option I posted is probably the best

[late gate]

would you go 8x U2 vs 8X Nvme? (here is the nvme version) https://global.icydock.com/product_305.html

this is for server purpose so high IO

[clear ferry]

Performance is probably the same, U2 has less resell / reuse value

[late gate]

hmm alright. cool. for the U2 I can get 8x intel DC4500, 8x Micron 5200 Pro or 8x Samsung PM863. I know they are a bit older, and the micron is a bit better on the speed, but I am not familiar with micron. which one woud you get? (remember they are free, so im just expecting better than regular SSD speeds)

all are brand new unused

[balmy bough]

i am enjoying Proxmox... have my web server, FreePBX (in process), and Home Assistant all running on one server 🙂

[steel crag]

I have them all on my ubuntu box

been meaning to go proxmox, just lazy with what free time I do have

like I could be doing it now, but I'm watching movies and eating pizza

I'm celebrating our independence day a little early

[balmy bough]

had ours a few days ago 🙂

[steel crag]

I know 😛

[finite atlas]

proxmox is great, you mess up, you toss the contáiner/vm and start from scratch
gone are the days of troubleshooting for days

[steel crag]

fun fact ... first deployment of what is now the US marines was to here, and my ancestor drove them off the island 😄 (along with the Spanish and French at the same time)

[steel crag]

I do that with my current VM's just not on proxmox

[late gate]

Im planning to start moving my unraid to ZFS with the new build. everyone suggested against it, and keep to xfs. Is it any reason for me to NOT migrate to ZFS when its officially supported. All my drives are the same size

[steel crag]

don't start up atxbyea FFS

lol

ZFS is nice and portable tho

[balmy bough]

worst part about my current server is the drive controller limits to 2TB per bay 😦

[steel crag]

old controller? no FW update?

[balmy bough]

i think it is a PERC6 or something. old controller

[static schooner]

Pigeons can be pretty annoying...

[late gate]

I choose ZFS on my opnsense router and that killed the NVME in a couple of months. typically it happened when I was on a two months vacation in the philipines

[steel crag]

yikes

but I have one question, what's a vacation?

[balmy bough]

no idea, i don't get vacations either 😉

[steel crag]

meh they aren't as bad as seagulls

at least you can hunt the pigeons, seagulls are protected here... $10,000 fine for bothering one

[balmy bough]

😲

[clear ferry]

Intel is never wrong

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/motorcycle-im-ready-lets-go-speed-up-race-gif-16682481

[clear ferry]

That supports 18+ no issues

I've had 10TB on perc6 gen lsi

[balmy bough]

Hmmm, gave me an error when i plugged in my 8TB yesterday

[late gate]

do you have a suggestion for a controller card that can handle 12 3.5 (backplate is 12, but I will just use 6). its one plug pr backplate to 3x for the main drives, and one U2 or SAS for the fast drives (4 or 8 pcs, depending on how many I would go with). So a total of 3x for the 12 drives plus 4-8x for the other drives?

[clear ferry]

Find the exact model, and the exact error @balmy bough

[clear ferry]

What connector on the backplane?

[glacial knot]

uhh, nice. Weather report says Tuesday will be a thunderstorm with 33°C

[clear ferry]

Nice

We will only get 28c here at 69 degree north

[balmy bough]

yes, PERC 6/i, will check on the error later, and the connector is SAS/SATA but the drive is SATA

[late gate]

Herea are the two options. the slim one is one pr row and the big one is one for all. the big one is a tad more expensive though

[steel crag]

we get more than that at night time LOL

[steel crag]

I think I may have a PERC 6 knocking about here actually

[steel crag]

that's like air conditioning numbers for this time of year for me

[glacial knot]

🤷 to each what they deserve

[clear ferry]

I expected the perc6 to be same gen as drac6, it appears to be older @balmy bough

Just order an IT flashed lsi from eBay, should be 20-30$

[steel crag]

yeah I'll just go to this beach https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=https%3A%2F%2Ftse2.mm.bing.net%2Fth%3Fid%3DOIP.uTT0wY8HPFT7zOL_35h5CQHaE8%26pid%3DApi&f=1&ipt=1f51a1f055ebd4394db776b7906cb113f948b51aeb6e961fef59d55a20a79a13&ipo=images

with some cold beers

[glacial knot]

have fun

[steel crag]

12.9mph winds.... might take the drone

[late gate]

how many ports do I need to power all those drives?

[balmy bough]

there, FreePBX is installed fully to my VM server, and FINALLY finished updating... 🙂

course, now if that one server goes down, EVERYTHING goes down...

[clear ferry]

Ports? I'm guessing three for the 2u, so either two dual port adapters or one dual port plus expander, or the 1u backplane would require a single port

[clear ferry]

How often does that happen? I've had the server crash once in the last 15 years, and it was user error

[glacial knot]

did you trip over the power cord?

[clear ferry]

No, I forgot some files running rampant, making the os drive full

Before that I had quite often hangs related to building new kernels and forgetting to include the drive controller or nic

[balmy bough]

only by power failure... though i have a UPS now, as well as a standby generator... so not oftin

[clear ferry]

Oh yeah US power grid sucks

[balmy bough]

yup

[clear ferry]

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Crjtt5DPtlU/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA==

Instagram

Literally me every time I visit the office

[solar zealot]

i cant tell, was wifi 6 or 6e the actual fast one

[clear ferry]

6e just does magic qos stuff if memory serves me right

oh no, it uses a dedicated spectrum

but requires the client to support it too it seems

[solar zealot]

kinda would work for me i guess
the wifi7 stuff aint properly available yet and i kinda dont need it to be 10gig anyway ;D

not that 700+$ would be a deal to start with

[clear ferry]

only stuff that uses wifi is IoT, mobiles and sometimes a laptop or two in my house anyway

think I paid $150 for my 3x wifi6 APs anyway

[solar zealot]

i got a set of tp link E4 which work quite nicely, but they do be a bit slow

[clear ferry]

yeah those are wifi5

[late gate]

do anyone think choosing ZFS as file system on opnsense was the reason for a full crash? I was so lucky when I left to the philippines i may I noticed opnsense started to just degrade, forst loosing ports and routing, then locked completely. It was a fairly new M2 drive in it, but unsure what made it crash so heavily

[clear ferry]

not likely

I know a lot of people who run zfs for opnsense

[last cedar]

@clear ferry what have you done to my philips outdoor motion sensor? It stopped reporting values, I re-paied it and it gives unknown values now. You weed on it, didn't you?

[steel crag]

802.11ax

or potentially 802.11ad as well actually but not really

[static schooner]

both 6 and 6e are the same speed, just different frequency bands

[steel crag]

well technically the same, but 6e also uses an additional band

[static schooner]

I suppose that 6e can be faster bender you could fit a 160MHz channel more comfortably in 6GHz, but you can technically do that with 6 in the 5GHz band

Or 320? I don't remember how high it goes

But device support goes way down

[steel crag]

nah it (6e) uses 7 in the 6ghz

and 1 in 5g

but yes 160mhz channel width

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/snl-drake-spinning-bed-motion-in-the-ocean-gif-17655247

[solar zealot]

gotta get my steam lib synced faster to mobile :^)
no but is the extra worth the cost?

[umbral cliff]

Why not just use ethernet for the initial download?

[last cedar]

@clear ferry I de weed (disgusting) the outdoor detector, and it is working again. I guess I will have to put it 3mm higher now so you can't do it again 🤣

|| restarting z2m seems to have fixed it! ||

[solar zealot]

because that would need to plug into somewhere

[umbral cliff]

So plug it in for the initial download though? Just put it next to your router for then

[solar zealot]

that isnt an option

[clear ferry]

kids these days and their wireless

[umbral cliff]

How come? Don't you have some ethernet somewhere?

[solar zealot]

its highly inconvenient to push additional cables around and find a place for whatever id want to transfer a game to

i just dont have that kinda space

[umbral cliff]

You shouldn't have to push additional cables around. Just plug it in and stick your laptop on the floor next to it

[solar zealot]

(its a laptop not a floortop) no it needs to be wireless

[umbral cliff]

But you only need to download games once?

[clear ferry]

yuck wireless laptops

[solar zealot]

i have a library a bit short of 7tb, unless i intend to go broke on an 8tb m2 id rather swap stuff around between devices when needed

[clear ferry]

Use an iSCSI drive as the library

seen lots of the weirdos over in homelab do that

[solar zealot]

but is it wireless :^)

[clear ferry]

yuck

can still do iscsi over wireless

wouldn't

but

[solar zealot]

madness

[last cedar]

Wireless on truenas doing iscsi for the vm pool would be 200IQ

[young jetty]

Hi everyone!

I've been working on a hobby project for some time called Lightwhale.

It's a free, minimalistic Linux streamlined for running Docker containers on bare-metal x86 servers. It strives to be zero-installation, zero-configuration, and zero-maintenance, and is very easy to use.

So if you're already running HA in a container on a NUC or similar, you should do yourself the favour and take a look at Lightwhale:

https://lightwhale.asklandd.dk/ha

🐳🐳🐳

[solar zealot]

Very interesting

I feel like the main selling point is about the data handling, but are there any noticable performance advantages compared using something like alpine?

[last cedar]

Judging by alpines performance at the British GP, I would say that there are major chances for improvement 🤣

[solar zealot]

:D

[balmy bough]

wow, getting Proxmox to share a PCIe card (Digium POTS FXO interface card) to my VM running FreePBX was a bunch of trials! had to do some BIOS and kernel command line configuring... but it works now, i am happy to say. so my long endeavor that started with getting HA off a Rpi, and turned into deleting two servers from my server rack, combining all 3 into one via Proxmox VMs, while installing HA on one via a docker setup... most of the time i had no idea what i was doing, but now it works!!! even HA is running happily. now i can focus on re-building my personal forum (blog, mainly), and creating Arduino/MQTT devices to control my world 🙂

[prisma briar]

Yea for some reason most systems still ship with VT-d/AMD-VI disabled.

Just enabling the setting in the BIOS and a kernel param to enable the iommu is all that should be needed on most systems from the last 5 or so years.

[balmy bough]

yeah, it needed something about unsafe Interrupt sharing too

[prisma briar]

Yea, older boxes didn't have all the security features that modern boxes have. The 710 should at least have ACS, though, which is the feature that's a rather minor security concern to have missing.

[balmy bough]

what is ACS?

[prisma briar]

Access control services, basically allows PCI-E data to be tagged for which VM it belongs to. Before that VMs that you passed a card through to could potentially sniff/send traffic to/from other PCI-E devices on the system.

[balmy bough]

oh, i see

[prisma briar]

By default Linux will refuse to pass cards through without ACS, you need to use a patch to override the default behavior if you don't have ACS. Proxmox has this patch built-in but not enabled by default.

[balmy bough]

it may have ACS, i didn't check for it... i will check later as i am tired from running up ad down the basement stairs (server is in the basement) 😉

[earnest prairie]

Anyone recommend a good router I can get from Amazon UK by tomorrow? 😄

[clever mortar]

Define "good"

[static schooner]

getting pretty late in the day for tomorrow delivery

[clever mortar]

Got a few hours yet

FREE delivery Tomorrow by 1 PM. Order within 5 hrs 49 mins.

[steel crag]

well I'm definitely gonna install proxmox now LOL I have two 4 port Digium cards and a 2 port T1/E1 Sangoma and I was curious

[balmy bough]

let me put it this way, any error i generated, i found on google, and found out how to solve it. it wasn't easy, but i am glad i did it. makes managing the one server so much easier. 🙂

[balmy bough]

glad i no longer work in a cube-farm like that...

[late gate]

Im one of the people who hate when the company has those ultra wide monitors. I hate ultra wide so much

I prefer around 30-35 inches

[balmy bough]

i have a 7 inch monitor for my server...

😉

[late gate]

You are rocking your 7 inch

[balmy bough]

LOL

[balmy bough]

out of curiosity, are SAS/SATA external disk arrays very power hungry?

[clear ferry]

I hate ultrawides

Give me 3-4 ~30"

[clear ferry]

Arrays? Depends, I have two das plus two 2u servers plus networking gear, less than 800w

[solar zealot]

if i want to get a static ipv6 address for a vm, is it save to have slaac figure one out which i then configure as static?

[clear ferry]

Slaac will never be static, you'd preferably want to use a DHCPv6 address and reserve it

But the nature of ipv6 is transient

[solar zealot]

that makes forwarding slightly more uh

i kinda would need to know where my dns server is supposed to listen

[clear ferry]

If you want an ipv6 device to be reachable gloabally you'd assign a global ipv6 address

[solar zealot]

uh this is so much more complicated than ipv4

[clear ferry]

Well yes

But still no

It is very simple if you understand how it works

There are a lot of good guides out there

It's been around for 20+ years already, I've played with it since 2001, I still forget stuff

@steel crag probably will arrest me on facts anyway

てめ

[brazen fable]

HOLD THE PHONE

We agree on something for once

[clear ferry]

Now I like ultrawides

[solar zealot]

ooooh i see

[brazen fable]

That's more like it

[solar zealot]

it does the fffe to the mac

[clear ferry]

An interface always has multiple ips

One link local, one global, one multicast etcetc

[solar zealot]

it probably doesnt help that i have no clue to what its telling me

valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever

is this a fact from the lease or is this just some sort of indicator which may very well be completely ignored on restarting it

[static schooner]

https://tenor.com/view/house-valkik-moving-gif-26568110

[solar zealot]

the global ones are not just lan global arent they

[clear ferry]

No, they are global global

Closest thing to classic Lan address is unique local unicast address

Link local is close to abipa

[solar zealot]

i think i see what is going on here

[clear ferry]

Global is public IP address

[solar zealot]

I somehow dont see a global one on the lxc of my dns but the link local one looks like is what i need to tell dhcp6 to advertise

maybe a reboot helps

[steel crag]

Good so far

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/hehe-not-hehe-no-angry-cat-angry-gif-23436666

[solar zealot]

Everything is on fire

How does it get an ipv6 when the dhcp server only advertises the dns

Magical

[clear ferry]

🤔

what is the actual first octet of the IP ?

a lot of the ipv6 addresses are self assigned

[solar zealot]

its a link local one

for whatever reason it now doesnt show up on the router at all now it does

yay it kinda seems to work for now, thanks!

[balmy bough]

so i stripped my server rack down and i think it looks far more streamlined and has to be less power hungry. now all i need to do is pull the hard-drives and put them on FB marketplace, assuming somebody out there wants a Dell PowerEdge 1950 and a PowerEdge T610 🙂

[steel crag]

I've seen worse

[static schooner]

Someone could be living in there

Like a family of raccoons

[steel crag]

raccoons would have cleaned that up by now

[frozen spindle]

What's everyone looking for on Prime Day?

[steel crag]

whats prime day

[umbral cliff]

The day we celebrate prime numbers

[fallow karma]

https://youtu.be/8csRyzKy_jc

[prisma briar]

First rack I inherited at work looked like that

I had this thing planned out to clean it all up and make all the wiring nice, I got promoted and never got to it. Then we disused that office after covid.

I did spend a weekend tone-mapping every damn wire in that room though.

The wiring wasn't neat, but I knew where every single wire ran.

Which ended up honestly being more valuable than having clean wiring

Damn, I'm a little sad that chart isn't in use anymore.

[clear ferry]

First racks I brought home

[finite atlas]

"hey guys, wanna play minecraft on my server?"

[clear ferry]

My old primary server

From 2003-2007

Dual Pentium pro with 1024MB ram

It was actually ridiculously good

[safe bobcat]

meanwhile me sitll using double ML350's as a database

[clear ferry]

What generation?

[safe bobcat]

gen 5's i belive

[clear ferry]

So, ewaste these days

[safe bobcat]

basically yea

i got them for 25$

[clear ferry]

G6/7 is still usable if you don't care about power usage, but gen8 is basically free

I've seen gen8 systems go for less than $100

[safe bobcat]

my edge of network is dl120 g6 i think

[safe bobcat]

not in my country

[clear ferry]

Which country?

[safe bobcat]

https://tenor.com/view/onion-gif-21437964

POLAND

[clear ferry]

Poland is in the EU right? No tax inside eu region, lots of cheap stuff from UK with cheap shipping

[safe bobcat]

nope

we are brazil of eu

tax 23%

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/winged-hussar-hussar-winged-tylko-jedno-gif-19121773

[safe bobcat]

anything from uk cost 5x the uk cost

[clear ferry]

I thought there was no tax in the EU region, we have the same tax in Norway

Oh right, now UK isn't even EU

I always forget

[safe bobcat]

nope, and wages in poland are 1/5 euro wages

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/but-heres-the-uh-i-forgor-gif-26494840

[safe bobcat]

so imagine earn 200$ for month and have used DL's go for 1000$

[clear ferry]

hides in $8000 per month

[safe bobcat]

minimal wage in poland is 4xxx pln, and 1 pln is 20 cents

so we basically earn 1000$ but pay for anything international in internatonal prices

like servers and gpu's

americans be like- this 1600$ gpu's is 1/3 our monthly wage so we not gonna buy this
meanwhile poles - 14000 pln for rtx 4090 (three month wage) it's ok.......

sorry for my bad english btw

[clear ferry]

I should go to Poland, I've never been

And all polish words I know are bad

[safe bobcat]

it will be cheap for you

[safe bobcat]

so, you know half of polish language?

[clear ferry]

Yes, gindobre and kurwa

All I need

[safe bobcat]

*dzieńdobry

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/lord-of-the-rings-frodo-alright-then-keep-your-secrets-smiling-gif-26462584

[safe bobcat]

last time swedes visited poland it didn't end good.......

@clear ferry btw, i see you hate most consumer ways to start self host journey, so what is according to you best way to for example host HA?

[clear ferry]

Any host running docker

[safe bobcat]

i'll ask this way:
(hardware)(hyprervisor)(container/docker/vm/lxc/etc...)

bcuz i think pi is not a proper host in this case

[clear ferry]

A pi would be the least desirable option

Unless the other option was a mouldy potato

[safe bobcat]

that's why am asking for the best

the *superior * way

[clear ferry]

A laptop running 8th gen Intel, a minicomputer running something decent, a enterprise rack server with nehalem or newer CPU

Running docker

[safe bobcat]

and ESXi

[clear ferry]

Not really

Vsphere is great if you want to learn vsphere

If not, kvm is more flexible

[safe bobcat]

so let's say DL160 g6 2x l5520 256gb, running proxmox, running HAOS is not entirely the correct way?

[clear ferry]

I wouldn't run proxmox, and I guess you mean haos?

[safe bobcat]

yea my bad

[clear ferry]

Yeah, I wouldn't run haos either

[safe bobcat]

so, i would want HA in a docker but having the addons what should i do coz now i feel lost....

[clear ferry]

An add-on is just a locked down version of a docker container

https://github.com/atxbyea/docker-compose/blob/master/home-automation.yaml old but relevant @safe bobcat

[safe bobcat]

so now, i am even more lost, i wanted to run HA in docker but do not lose any functionality, addons are a functionality, in docker you have HA core, so you cant have addons, so what i should do now.....

[clear ferry]

addons are nothing special

[safe bobcat]

i suppose you cant have HA in a docker and addon in the docker on the same level

[clear ferry]

it is just a click to install software

[safe bobcat]

so, how to add the functionality that they provide whithout them?

[clear ferry]

you look at the file above

that shows how you define a docker container

[safe bobcat]

yes....

let's make everything clear, for long time i tried to convert myself from VM's to docker but it has substantial scaresity to it, and everybody which use it says it's best but not quite explain how to start whith it, and i believe i am not alone in this situation, i know this seems like rumbling of a lazy person but despite for example reading that file you send i did only understand that it is config for a list of functionalities.......

[clear ferry]

well, start small in a vm

install docker

install a container

install a second container

play with docker compose

[safe bobcat]

can containers communicate?

[clear ferry]

yes

in many ways

either internally in the docker internal network or externally via the host network

or other overlay networks between hosts

[safe bobcat]

so u place HA core in container, addon in another, and you point HA to another container?

[clear ferry]

yes

that second container can run anywhere

[safe bobcat]

and this is the way to have ha core with full functionality?

[clear ferry]

the most flexible solution yes

all installations of HA core have the same functionality

[safe bobcat]

hmm i did not understand that.... what do you mean by the same?

[clever mortar]

Home Assistant is Home Assistant, doesn't matter what #installation-archived method you pick

https://www.home-assistant.io/installation#compare-installation-methods (but ignore _Supervised)

[last cedar]

@finite atlas

Making progress!

[umbral cliff]

Big house for a racoon

[last cedar]

https://tenor.com/view/raccoon-binatang-hewan-pencuri-curi-gif-11069677

@umbral cliff doormats are big business right now, I splashed out

[safe bobcat]

now i think i have an idea but i have run into another problem - what is the best underlying system to run the docker on - @clear ferry what do you run yours on, @clever mortar what is your HA setup (HAOS/docker/other) ?

[clever mortar]

Debian FTW

I run Core, but I'm nuts. If I didn't run Core I'd run Docker.

The #installation-archived channel is the best place to discuss that though

[safe bobcat]

i was just curious

[finite atlas]

:O insulation!

[last cedar]

Doormat based!

[finite atlas]

oh no

you are using those plastic pucs :(

gives me mild ptsd

I hope you are using some good lotus effect paint when you cover the insulation panels.

[balmy bough]

Good Morning ☕

[safe bobcat]

Good morning

[balmy bough]

funny, had someone register on my forum with a name very similar to yours 😉

[safe bobcat]

it was me all along

[balmy bough]

😱 😉

[safe bobcat]

but your forum didn't send me confirmation mail

so my account isn't confirmed

[balmy bough]

yeah, i forgot to set that up, all approved now

[safe bobcat]

👍

[balmy bough]

still not 100% finished in setting it up, but it is functional 🙂

[safe bobcat]

yeah, same as my network 🤣

[balmy bough]

well, i just re-did my whole set of servers onto one machine, but the old forum data didn't transfer over so i had to start fresh

[safe bobcat]

yeah i've seen

personally i ilke to have some reundancy on my setup

especially if most of it is ewaste

[balmy bough]

i had redundancy, but it was using too much power. i will add a small NAS at some point for backups. for now, the raid and ZFS will have to be my redundancy

[last cedar]

There is a 28mm panel going on top, that sits on plastic distancers (to not squish the insulation), then 22mm wood tongue and groove panelling going up

See those 2 battons on the 2nd pic?

Wood is mounted to those

One side of the house has staggered panelling like this

     |

So I need to shave the insulation and the distancers too, to make the final result flat at both sides, other side is flat

That step is only about 20 to 22mm

The loft is too small to use for anything other than storage... so the insulation isn't as much use up there, so it doesn't make a lot of difference that it is thinner. It is the north side so no help from the sun either

[safe bobcat]

in some cases i'm still rocking BF146B26B's

[balmy bough]

"BF146B26B" ???

[safe bobcat]

@clear ferry come help translate

[balmy bough]

🤣

[safe bobcat]

st3146855lc

the first name is hp part name

[balmy bough]

ahh, ok. i see now

the 6 drives in my PowerEdge R710 are all 2TB spinning rust

[safe bobcat]

those cheetos are some old ones, but they still work in arrays despite having some hours on them

but nowadays consumer sata drives are so cheap that going in homelab without at least 1tb raid 1's is a sin 🤣

[balmy bough]

🤣

i think my OS drives are raid 1, but the 4 data disks are ZFS

[safe bobcat]

i haven't yet tried zfs but in my case i think the benefits will be so small that it's not worth doing

[balmy bough]

i was thinking of adding a JBOD disk array to my setup, but i am trying to use less electricity.

[safe bobcat]

i wish for finding used jbod bellow 100$

i have shitload of used sas/sata/scsi drives so i could use them to make my * ekhem * library

those yellow ones from hp seem like a quite capable ones but i am yet to find them bellow 100$ in my country

i think their name is storageworks?

[balmy bough]

could be, i know the ones i have looked at in my country are anywhere from just over $100, to several hundreds of dollars

[safe bobcat]

i have checked right now and i propably found the best offer i could (propably is fake)

btw guys, what do you think about reanimating DL380 g2 (basically ewaste) as a sideproject?

[balmy bough]

there is always a risk with ewaste. i have had servers that last for years, and one that lasted 5 months before it has a fatal motherboard failure.

[last cedar]

Apprentice is slow, but isn't on their phone all the time, at least

[safe bobcat]

my only problem with ewaste servers are their previous owners 🤣, but in all seriousness the only problem with my main stack of servers is that i am locked out of ipmi in my 256gb vm host machine coz the last owner forgot to reset it.

and now i dont have anybody on hand to flash the eeprom on bnc and i dont know of any other way of changing password in proliant iLO

[balmy bough]

Hmm, sounds like a bad situation. i to have no idea how to change the password 🤔

[safe bobcat]

that's why that one is running proxmox - it comes handy when you get locked out of iLO

[balmy bough]

Assuming the iLO is in production mode, you should be able to do this a few ways. If you have an OS running that has hponcfg running (HPE ESXi image include this) then you can use this. If you have local access, then you can reboot the server and press F9 during POST then enter the iLO configuration utility. You can also bring the server down and select to enable to the security override switch on the system board (diagram on top cover should have this location). This is switch 1 in the maintenance switch bank. <=== found this online, may help you

[safe bobcat]

depends on generation of iLO

[balmy bough]

the security override switch on the main board sounded promising

[safe bobcat]

dl160 from what i've seen doesn't have one - looking at g6

F9 during POST then enter the iLO configuration utility
nonexistent

[reef arrow]

https://helper-scripts.com

[safe bobcat]

👍

[clear ferry]

The dl160 definitely has iLO and override switches

[safe bobcat]

g6?

i have it open now

[clear ferry]

But it is optional it seems

I've never seen it not have it

[safe bobcat]

i have the addon card

i just dont have access to it

and i dont see the override switches

@clear ferry had you dealt with this problem before?

the only thing it has is recovery bmc jumper but it doesn't work

[late gate]

Maybe a stupid question, but does U.2 and SAS backplates need Bifurcation support on the mobo, or does the SAS card handle it?

[clear ferry]

I can check the manual later

[clear ferry]

Bifurcation is to split a pcie port into multiple, has nothing to do with sas

I don't remember if it is u2 or u3 that has both nvme and pcie

[safe bobcat]

i think u.3

[late gate]

but a SAS card can handle U2 drives, cant it?

[prisma briar]

U.2 is pci-e/nvme. No, sas can't handle it. A U2 drive may step down to SAS which a SAS card can handle but that's a huge waste. I wouldn't expect that ability though.

[late gate]

so what card do I need to host U.2 drives?

Im looking to host this one: https://global.icydock.com/product_305.html?spm=a2700.12243863.0.0.2ce83e5fJZlgJV

but not too easy getting a clear answear what I need more

[prisma briar]

I believe you'd use something like https://www.amazon.com/Express-Oculink-External-SFF-8612-SFF-8611/dp/B09JCDDRPJ/ on the host to connect it to

Optimally an x8/Gen 4 one

Or you might need 2x x4 ones

I'm pretty sure that enclosure is going to have two PCI-E switches on it, each handing half the drives from one port

That enclosure will also only host NVMe M.2 drives, it won't do U.2 or SATA M.2.

[late gate]

So I need 8 of those, and an mono that supports Bifurcation?

[prisma briar]

Wait, yea, you'd need 8 of them

That doesn't have pci-e switches in it

[late gate]

hmm I see. This is refered on their website. still need 8 of them? https://www.ebay.com/itm/175804289349?epid=9054079100&hash=item28eec09145:g:1rQAAOSw79hkkPgK&amdata=enc%3AAQAIAAAA4Ovqc2XaTKGdMyxRGNwyIdaaR%2BfK0qnVUV8M0xaxwf%2F2JlgGoVjQno1S8eLxSz5TrCyfpu3oGJYcYIpSqErCjhR8D3qHqFvqAJGRW03BIy33h%2BAPfD4EHfdrdcuM%2F76x2FzvHRcRDNdQtTkVU0XLVUbbb1Pz3lXntjh5Tb87W3sIOhboLxyQlkS6izNcKBKP%2Fxx5oZoC4S9vAStST1kNhVJcffSX1dxu5A4qjV2iZLMURcYflz807d%2FBX4QTEg%2FOKIE7Fc8SRfqNXfE59XPtlkdemqY7fRTdVzoiimA0AQhH|tkp%3ABFBMstCl2qhi

[prisma briar]

If you can convert from that connector to oculink it may work

The concept of multi-drive HBAs kind of falls apart with NVME

They're too fast for HBAs to make sense

[late gate]

oh I see, so I will loose speed with something like that?

[prisma briar]

Yea, unless you can run x4 for each drive to your CPU you're missing speed somewhere. It's still going to be absurdly fast though.

[late gate]

so in other words, that card I linked to can run withouth Bifurcation, but will be a bit slower than a 4x4x4x4 card?

[prisma briar]

It'll also run hotter and to purchase new would likely be more expensive than a bifurcation card.

[late gate]

yeah, thats what I am thinking to just buy a bifurcation card. the card in my server now doesnt support it

[rugged crystal]

Does anyone know of any integrations that reveal the most used Devices, Entities, Automations, etc. overall or by individual user?

I'm guessing this is possible to query directly in the database, but I'm hoping someone else has brought it into an integration

[clear ferry]

Does your pcie slots support bifurcation ?

Pretty sure u2 can work over sas and this picture seems to confirm it

[clever mortar]

That'd be a question for #integrations-archived or #general-archived - not here

[cerulean stump]

It does. I use it at work

[clear ferry]

I assumed as much, U2 is so rare I hardly even hear of it, pure nvme or sas is the norm in everything I install

We've had u2 and u3 for years

[subtle pasture]

https://tenor.com/view/vr-virtual-reality-beat-saber-music-gaming-gif-15164944

Slicing up those younglings like

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/computer-whats-a-computer-tablet-gif-11564169

[last cedar]

Anyone good with dogs?

What sort is this?

[clear ferry]

Dogoose

https://tenor.com/view/muppet-show-muppets-swedish-chef-chocolate-mousse-moose-gif-24958978

[static schooner]

Looks like a unicorn. GET IT!

[prisma briar]

SAS is 12Gbps per drive, NVME on x4 is 64Gbps, he really doesn't want to limit it to SAS by forcing an NVME drive through a SAS controller. That enclosure he linked is also for M.2 and doesn't work with tri-mode connectors.

SAS may not even be 12Gb per drive depending on how the channel is shared

[prisma briar]

NVME is the pci-e protocol u.2 drives speak. It's the same protocol that m.2 drives speak.

It's not a form factor

If you have appropriate hardware I've never got to use you can even route nvme over the network in a similar concept to iSCSI. It requires an rdma solution though.

SAS is just SCSI over a modern bus.

[clear ferry]

Yes nvmeof has been a thing for years

But you can still run those drives over sas

Which was my point

[prisma briar]

That's a non-sensical configuration, though. Just buy SAS drives at that point.

[clear ferry]

For his usecase it will be fine, since they are free after all

[prisma briar]

A pure nvme U.2 drive will not work on a SAS controller at all, and I'm not finding any dual mode U.2 drives when I search.

[clear ferry]

Pretty sure I saw them on the gen9 servers

Then again , I've seen two customers in my life with U2/3

Not very popular

[prisma briar]

We have a ton of U.2 boxes

We use the onboard m.2 for the OS drives and load up the u.2 slots with disk

[clear ferry]

My customers are in 95% cases single or dual boot drive local, everything else happens on San and nas

[prisma briar]

I can almost guarantee those SANs are using u.2 if they're nvme

[clear ferry]

Default since gen10 (2018) has been a dual nvme carrier board in a pcie slot for os drive

[clear ferry]

I would say less than 1% of all sans I've ever seen support nvme, let alone use it, only latest gen Primera and the new alettra boxes support it

[prisma briar]

m.2 is really small and great for consumers but it's more tedious to replace and requires sleds/carrier trays or bifurcation boards which makes it worse than u.2 for datacenters

Fair, it's still rather new.

Our latest two clusters at work are all nvme

[clear ferry]

I think we use the weird carrier for our systems

The long disk

[last cedar]

@clear ferry @static schooner I tried riding it but it just charged at me, I guess this is why you never see people riding unicorns

[clear ferry]

Whatever the name was again

[prisma briar]

The ruler m.2 drives?

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/sounds-like-my-ex-wife-joke-sounds-familiar-haha-sounds-like-my-wife-gif-16236340

[clear ferry]

EDSFF

[prisma briar]

Ah, yea, that's it.

I don't personally see how it's more convenient than u.2

But it seems to be growing

[clear ferry]

This has been the default boot drive for the last five years

https://buy.hpe.com/us/en/options/boot-devices/os-boot-devices/boot-cards-devices-drives/hpe-ns204i-p-x2-lanes-nvme-pcie3-x8-os-boot-device/p/p12965-b21

[prisma briar]

Huh, hardware raid 1 os card.

I expected bifurcation when I first saw it

[clear ferry]

It just presents a single lun if memory serves right

And iLO will show if it has a failed drive

[prisma briar]

I'm not sure it's better than using mdadm to mirror two drives on the CPU, tbh It would save a small amount of CPU load/configuration complexity but I'm not sure if that's worth the tradeoff of having your drives locked to a specific model/brand of raid controller.

idk how HP's raid controllers are but Dell's have a non-zero failure rate.

To say the least.

[clear ferry]

I've seen one of those fail

And getting a new one is less than 24h

Noone cares about the boot of a single server

[prisma briar]

We seem to have a few RAID cards go out a year across all our servers.

Often completely trashing the data, too, which would make worrying about raid controller compatibility pointless

[clear ferry]

Yeah, the boot drives are usually disposable anyway

[prisma briar]

That's how it should be

[subtle pasture]

If the servers even have boot drives. A lot of ours network-boot from a TFTP Boot share which is hosted from a SAN

You can yank a server, replace it with a new one, enable PXE boot, capture it and boot it into a hypervisor (usually ESXi) ready to fire up virtual machines.

[clear ferry]

Yeah, that used to be popular, I've probably seen 3 pxe booting customers in my life, all of them were esxi auto deploy, iscsi boot and FC boot used to be popular, but haven't seen that in at least.. 6-7 years?

[subtle pasture]

It's still very much a thing in blade server environments. That's basically how they all work.

[clear ferry]

Not ours

[subtle pasture]

Granted, ESXi 7 and 8 like to have a local NVMe drive to boot from now

[clear ferry]

Can't think of a single blade or synergy customer the last decade who does it

[subtle pasture]

Though you can still network boot them and tell them to use the NVMe drive for their swap space

[subtle pasture]

They're manually installing the hypervisor directly to each blade?

[clear ferry]

Nope, they've got a deployment job that installs the OS to local drives usually

Smaller customers install manually still

[subtle pasture]

We just update the image on the share and reboot the servers sequentially (vMotion automatically re-balances the VMs as the servers are rebooted). They all boot into the latest version of the hypervisor and are good to go.

[clear ferry]

Oneview for vcenter is also helpful

[subtle pasture]

You can orchistate the OS upgrades through vCenter as well, but it requires a reboot either way, so 🤷‍♀️

[prisma briar]

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FFB233Y z-wave smoke detectors on sale

[clear ferry]

Yeah, you can orchestrate it via oneview too

Including firmware and driver upgrades

Integrated with vlcm

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, I know, just still not seeing the point of doing local installs 🤷‍♀️

[prisma briar]

You need at least enough local installs to bootstrap everything else in the event of a total outage

[subtle pasture]

But we're an MSP that likes to be able to drop-ship a new blade directly to a client. "Just swap blade #8 in rack #2 for the one we just shipped you. It'll boot up and be off to the races"

[subtle pasture]

Literally the only thing that needs to come up is a TFTP boot share, and that's handled by the SANs. If those are down, we got bigger problems.

[prisma briar]

You ship the entire OS to the clients over tftp?

That sounds rough.

[subtle pasture]

ESXi is about 150 MB

It uses more disk space once booted, but that's how much data you need to load over the network to get the OS running.

150mb over gigabit (or 10 gigabit, as the case may be) is nothing.

[prisma briar]

Yea, I just figured you'd use something like iPXE to chainload it off of iscsi or http or something

[subtle pasture]

Blame Cisco UCS for standardizing this method. lol

[clear ferry]

Yuck ucs

What a pile of shit

[subtle pasture]

Never really had an issue with them, granted we usually deploy a UCS Mini

And that's a "rack and go" solution

[prisma briar]

I set my desktop at home up to be diskless for a while. NIC PXE -> iPXE -> Initiate iSCSI and pass off to Windows bootmgr which can natively boot from iSCSI. I had my OS on a ceph pool backed by nvme drives and 10Gb everywhere, I used Ceph's iscsi gateway to expose the share for it.

[clear ferry]

I've had three customers migrate to ucs, all came back because the price of expansion was ridiculous, and they were as stable as a fart in a wicker basket

The nexus 6000 tor was the usual culprit, crashing randomly

[late gate]

Is it any pikvm alternatives with lte support

I had to fly to the Philippines last week cause the router f up

[clear ferry]

Just buy a box with oobm

[prisma briar]

Get an lte connection, put the oobm on it

We have multiple completely separate entrypoints into our datacenters. Separate ISP, separate power, separate router.

Haven't needed the backups in my time here though

[clear ferry]

You usually don't need them

Until you don't have them

[prisma briar]

I don't think we have any entrypoints over cell networks though

That'd be weird.

[clear ferry]

I know of a customer who uses a oobm router that works over lan but can failover to LTE if Lan uplink is down

That one is pretty handy

[balmy bough]

with Proxmox, if i get a JBOD disk array, can i install drives as i get them? in other words, can i just to start, add my 8TB drive and use it? or must i have enough to make a ZFS pool?

[clear ferry]

You cannot add single drives to a zfs pool no

[balmy bough]

ok, that's what i figured

[clear ferry]

You need a fixed set, either mirrors, 3s, 4s, 5s etc

What you want is either unraid or mergerfs+snapraid

[balmy bough]

Hmm, all i want to do is backup my server....

[clear ferry]

So you want rsnaphot and a seperate pool or secondary system

Or just cloud storage

rclone+crypt is bae

[balmy bough]

almost tempted to put the drive in a USB enclosure ad setup a Rpi as a small NAS... but i doubt the performance will be much...

[clear ferry]

For backup? Probably fine, still wouldn't

[balmy bough]

yeah, it is less than ideal. just trying to save power though...

[dusky plank]

I save power, i pxe boot 4 pis off my raid1 nas where i also store backups

In other words: my homeassistant runs on it for a few years fine now and I don‘t care about storage corruption on these 😁

[subtle pasture]

I just stopped using Pis. They're expensive and hard to get, anyway 🤷‍♀️

Lattepanda makes some excelent x86 SBCs. I've had great luck with those.

But yeah, as far as reliable storage on a Pi is concerned, it's hard to beat network booting + remote FS on a NAS.

A USB 3 to SATA adapter with a full blown desktop class SSD is also pretty good (way better than a MicroSD card, anyway)

And if you're running the Pi Compute Module 4, you can run full NVMe storage

[static schooner]

It's a good day for a sunbath

[solar zealot]

fluffy

[static schooner]

takes a lot of sun to heat all that suface area

[prisma briar]

You can do that with Ceph but it's got a lot of other downsides that make a setup like that not worth it.

Mostly it adds an absurd amount of CPU and I/O overhead.

Homelab-grade equipment will probably be to the point you can reasonably use a single-box ceph setup like that in 5-10 years

[solar zealot]

the cat clearly is charging
does it have a ha integration to track that pv generation?

[prisma briar]

So I have a light I'm afraid to turn up past like 20% without eye protection now.

I hacked a 300w LED COB chip into an old HID projector a couple years ago, the projector itself died on me but the light still works.

And now that it's not in the projector I can put a water block on it and actually power it at 300w

[solar zealot]

https://youtu.be/LT5_-A0m8_U?t=640 came to my mind

[prisma briar]

Taking the efficiency differences into account between halogen and led that'd be somewhat equivalent to a 5500w LED COB, so about 18x more light output than what I have here.

The one he did with the mercury lamps was really cool

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2pDcv6g1FE0&t=990s

[solar zealot]

its a great color

[prisma briar]

The hard thing about these LED COB chips is they're heat sensitive and they also get really hot.

[solar zealot]

last time i looked they were incredible expensive

https://store.yujiintl.com/products/yujileds-cri-95-high-power-1500w-flip-chip-cob-led-3200k-5600k-900h this cant be real

what even is the intended use for such things

[prisma briar]

Just the chip on mine was $70, the boost converter was like 30 and the power supply was another 50 or 60. The only cooler I have that lets me run it at 100% brightness is a $120 water cooler, but there's probably other solutions for cheaper.

Mine was meant for stadium lighting

[solar zealot]

oh that would make sense

like for regular street lights that may be a bit heavy

[prisma briar]

Yea

It takes something like 60v at 5a to power it

I have another 100w COB chip I put a USB-C trigger board on and power from a USB-C battery bank.

That one is actually portable

I 3D printed a holder for it that holds the 20v/5a USB-C trigger board, boost converter, and heatsink/fan/led/lens combination

I've only used it a couple times, during power outages, but it's been useful when I've had it.

Point it at the ceiling and it's bright enough to play card games by, lol.

I have a couple other 100w COBs around too but I think I damaged them

100W ones are like $12

[solar zealot]

How do you cool those

[dusky plank]

Why stop when you have them? 🧐

I bought four pi4 for 55$ each years ago and they paid off long ago

[solar zealot]

insert rant about pis here

[dusky plank]

I recently tried my ha setup on a new intel machine. Works just as snappy as on the pi. So there is no reason to rant other than the price

[solar zealot]

For it running ha probably not. In general performance, value and reliability are questionable at best

[dusky plank]

My setup would easily take 200-300w on a intel machine

Now it uses 40w

Facts

[solar zealot]

If you don't need the compute, arm is mighty fine

[prisma briar]

For the 100w ones I have some heatsinks that are basically stock Intel coolers but square and with mounting screws for the LED COB, for the 300w one I have a spare 280mm AIO.

[solar zealot]

So kinda installed like a cpu with paste n pressure

Neat

[prisma briar]

Yea

I have thermal paste on them too

[dusky plank]

its > 2500 entities and 8 cameras

[prisma briar]

I ordered a 240mm AIO from Amazon a couple months ago and they sent me a 280mm one, they just told me to keep it when I contacted support for a replacement, so I've had a 280mm AIO just sitting there.

It won't fit any of my PCs

[solar zealot]

So not a lot of stuff that needs processing. Makes sense to use something like that then

[dusky plank]

so pretty much slightly above the average ha user, the yellow makes perfect sense

[solar zealot]

It also uses the compute model

[dusky plank]

which is pretty much the same

[solar zealot]

No it actually supports proper storage

[dusky plank]

as said, I don't have storage attached at all

[solar zealot]

That's still an important difference outside of ha

[prisma briar]

I got my ryzen box I'm using as a server down to about 50w

Running HA with ~1000 entities, acting as a 4 hdd nas, frigate with three cameras and object detection on a Coral, also acting as my main router for internet and DNS filtering.

[solar zealot]

Likely with no mobile cpu?

[prisma briar]

I have a 5700g in it

That's almost totally idle

Frigate is doing the little rendering it does on the GPU and object detetction on the Coral

[solar zealot]

I manage to get 15 idle on a 5900hx but with only SSD storage. That helps quite a lot

[prisma briar]

I could probably drop 20w if I cut the drives but that's where Frigate stores to

[solar zealot]

It's a too big for ha so I moved it off to something more reasonable. But those Ryzen CPUs do be hella efficient

[prisma briar]

I have another server handling backups, a Ryzen 4600g with two HDDs, that for some reason is pulling around 60w completely idle. I'm going to configure it to only be on when it's running backups though so that won't matter much.

Yea, if I was just running HA I'd be on some random small ARM SOC board.

[solar zealot]

I got an Intel based one because of quick sync support which somehow works inside lxcs

It uses the same energy but it's noticable slower

[prisma briar]

I have my 5700g's GPU running with Frigate's Docker container inside an LXC container, and also passed to another LXC container running xorg/firefox cycling through my security cameras on it.

Works well for processing a few h264 streams

[subtle pasture]

I tend to stick to intel/nvidia for anything that requires transcoding. They consistently offer better video quality than AMD for whatever reason 🤷‍♀️

[solar zealot]

Nvidia is a bit difficult to get inside mini pcs

[subtle pasture]

I slapped an intel Arc card in my Plex server, and that thing is a beast

Quadro levels of transcode performance for bargain-bin prices

[solar zealot]

Yea that's kinda wild

[prisma briar]

Frigate is rendering frames from streams out to single images so the coral can process them and Firefox is playing a couple h264 streams directly from my cameras without any re-encoding.

[solar zealot]

I wonder what happened to googles encoding accelerator cards

It got suspiciously quiet

[subtle pasture]

Intel also lets you do AV1 encoding/transcoding, which is pretty nice for the applications that support it

And while Firefox has no support for h.265, it will play AV1 natively 👀

[prisma briar]

Hmm, I should see if anything I use is using AV1.

Yea, Firefox not having h.265 is annoying. One of my cameras is h.265, I'm having to monitor the transcoded mjpeg stream instead.

[solar zealot]

considering the hardware acceleration support ain't broken yet again

:D

[prisma briar]

I couldn't get Chrome to do h.265 either

In my container, it does fine on Windows

[subtle pasture]

True, though that's where intel chips with iGPUs come in

[solar zealot]

We ignore gen 10

[subtle pasture]

Y'all see intel is discontinuing their in-house NUCs, though?

[solar zealot]

They ever made those in house?

I thought it always been from simplynuc

[subtle pasture]

These are the intel branded ones:

[prisma briar]

Heh, I rebuilt my office PC into an SFF case, https://lian-li.com/product/a4h2o/ . It was the smallest case I could find that looked like it'd reasonably work with my 3090ti.

[subtle pasture]

https://www.theverge.com/2023/7/11/23790956/intel-nuc-compact-pc-discontinued

These things were great. They will be missed...

So many people using them for virtualization, routers, or just straight-up office PCs

[prisma briar]

I wanted to want a NUC. I reviewed them 3 or 4 times while buying hardware for various projects and always went self-built for one reason or another.

[subtle pasture]

Fair, they don't offer much in the way of upgradability

[prisma briar]

Yea, getting 10Gb on them was one of the problem points I never got over

[subtle pasture]

But it's weird for intel to abandon a product like this. They have a huge following and sell very, very well

Some of the latest (last?) ones have 10g now

[solar zealot]

https://simplynuc.eu/product/nuc8v5pnh-full/
They do look similar

Ish

They also had them extreme ones

In fairness the extreme ones never have been really good

The 9 struggles with clearance between the pcie slots and the 11 n 12 just use too much energy on the rgb fancyness

[subtle pasture]

Eh? The Nuc 13 Extreme has a i9 13900k and a can fit some RTX 4090s

That's basically top-spec hardware in there

[solar zealot]

Yea but it's no longer really nuc sized

[subtle pasture]

It's pretty small for what it is, but yeah, it's not a small brick anymore

[solar zealot]

How much is it

Probably 2k without the gpu

[subtle pasture]

Yup. lol

You pay extra for A) it being a prebuilt, and B) it being a small form factor prebuilt

[solar zealot]

Yea it's likely also not high volume

A premium someone surely will pay

[prisma briar]

I might consider an SFF prebuilt if it was reasonably priced.

If I was looking

The two SFF PCs I just built were kind of tedious.

And now I can say I did it so I don't need to do it again, lol.

[solar zealot]

I kinda want to do some custom cooling at some point. But stuff be wayy too expensive to just try it out

[prisma briar]

I got an AIO for this SFF PC because it legitimately needs it but it's the only AIO I've ever used in a PC.

[solar zealot]

They work is all I can say about them. I am not too happy with mine

[prisma briar]

And it only needs an AIO because it's too small to fit a good air cooler in

Yea, I was kind of underwhelmed by my AIO. I was expecting more.

I have another PC with an NH-D15 and it seems to out-perform my AIO.

[solar zealot]

I suspect it's the amount of fluid that differs

[prisma briar]

NH-D15 is an air cooler

[solar zealot]

Like there is barely any in there vs those loops you fill with a hose literally

[prisma briar]

Ah

All that does is buy you more time before it's saturated

[solar zealot]

I wanted noise to be lower but ended up with a leave blower pressure wise which does all the noise and all the dust

Just not a lot of cooling

[prisma briar]

Mine is decently quiet unless I'm actively gaming

I got Cura to spin up the fans yesterday too doing some slicing

[subtle pasture]

Thats been my experience as well. Only the 360mm rads seem to be a real upgrade from a NH-D15

[finite atlas]

I much rather buy a used Dell, HP or Lenovo Tiny Mini Micro Pc.

[subtle pasture]

I mean, good for you, but I'm still struggling to figure out why intel dropped a highly successful product line 🤷‍♀️

[finite atlas]

Maybe big partners got mad at intel making a product that is more than just one part.

[nocturne sierra]

Yeah that's a little odd from a purely financial pov.

I guess they're trying to cut down on anything that isn't just chips so they can try to get back to being the leading chip manufacturer.

[last cedar]

Can anyone help? I am in a bit of a situation

I only think I can take 2 of them

[dusky plank]

🌴

[balmy bough]

Morning ☕

[clear ferry]

[safe bobcat]

Hello

[clear ferry]

[late gate]

Can someone suggest a mainboard with multiple PCIe and PCIe Bifurcation (4x4x4x4) support? (hopefully for an Intel 9th gen CPU)?

Also how are AMD for server use vs Intel?

[clear ferry]

Zen2 server chips are quite popular with the home lab people

[late gate]

any specific reason for that?

[clear ferry]

Cheap now

Since they are older

And first gen is shit

[late gate]

do they support Bifurcation?

[clear ferry]

[balmy bough]

found this info on amazon when i searched google for PCIe Bifurcation: Chipset support PCIe Bifurcation: Intel Platform X299, C422, C621, Z390, Z370, Z490, Z590, Z690, X99； AMD Platform TRX40, X399, X570, X470, B550, B450, Z590, etc.

also, this: https://www.asus.com/us/support/FAQ/1037507/

[harsh heath]

I need an advice

What would be the best way to start a HA in another site (abroad) and control it? I have of course my own precious HA running, but I need to set up one at my parents' house that would include some Z2M stuff, LAN devices etc.

I have the possibility to either start a brand new domain or tunnel between my own HA & the new HA. I've been looking at some options, most remarkable ones have been bridging the HA, using them seperately or bridging the MQTT

[steel crag]

why would you bother linking them?

[clever mortar]

Also, really off topic in #the-water-cooler 😛

[steel crag]

well yes

[clever mortar]

#general-archived would be the place

[steel crag]

#thattoo

[glacial knot]

I wish there was HA HA though o.0

[steel crag]

there is, look haha

made you look

[harsh heath]

I was in doubt since it's not an "issue", but noted, will do next time :)

[steel crag]

but it is 'support' 😉

#the-water-cooler message

it's gonna be 43C today

dies a little

[balmy bough]

not that hot here, but humidity is around 100%

[orchid rose]

good lord, I would literally die. Even this ~25ish is agony when trying to do anything but sit still

[last cedar]

Wow, even b450 and b550, sweet

[balmy bough]

only going to get up to 30*C here

[clever mortar]

We're barely taps aff here

[steel crag]

it's nearly at 100 here as well, it's 91% today

[steel crag]

that's AC temps for me LOL

[umbral cliff]

Highs of 15c here lol

[clever mortar]

Damn, it's warmer here ... just

[young sigil]

We nearly got above -10c today. Balmy!

[clever mortar]

Yeah... but you're cheating 😛

[umbral cliff]

Currently 0.7c here lol

[static schooner]

We're all trying to help with that

[umbral cliff]

Wow the penguins must be complaining!

[young sigil]

They're all out at sea for a few more months yet.

[steel crag]

Oh how I miss subzero temps

[umbral cliff]

You live in the wrong place for that lol

[steel crag]

I do currently yes

But I've lived in subzero before 🤪

[umbral cliff]

Where at

[balmy bough]

in winter, here, it gets down to -40*C sometimes

[steel crag]

Sweden

[steel crag]

I've been down to -27C

[balmy bough]

at -40, the snot in your nose freezes when you breath in 🙂

i am in Maine, USA 🙂

[steel crag]

At -27C I had to smoke a cigarette to breath

So I believe you

[prisma briar]

It's got down to around -27C where I am a couple times in my life, the coldest I remember ever being at was when I got stuck in a snowstorm while camping around 12k ft elevation, it got to around -30C that night.

[steel crag]

Yeah that's a firm no from me

Unless I was camping inside a house

[umbral cliff]

Ah fun

Coldest ive been in was as a tourist in china, -30c

[prisma briar]

Fun fact: Propane tanks put out almost no pressure at that temperature because it's so close to their liquefication point.

[umbral cliff]

Coldest Ive had in Australia is -9

[steel crag]

Wait it gets that cold in AU?

[prisma briar]

I was in a heated camper

[steel crag]

Oh so glamping

[umbral cliff]

There are places yes

Like Canberra

[balmy bough]

-40 in a camper isn't fun... the one time i tried, the propane regulator froze and i lost heat 😦

[prisma briar]

I wouldn't go camping when it might snow without making sure I have somewhere to stay warm.

[steel crag]

I can shorten that sentence.

I wouldn't go camping where it might snow.

🤣😂

[umbral cliff]

I'll shorten it more

I wouldn't go camping

[steel crag]

Camping on the beach here is very nice

As long as you take anti-aircraft guns for the mosquitoes

[prisma briar]

There's like 9 months a year we might get snow

so

[umbral cliff]

I just hate camping

[prisma briar]

Last year we got 12"/30cm of snow on May 21st

[steel crag]

We got hail like 7 years ago

[prisma briar]

(I am northern hemisphere)

[steel crag]

That's about the extent of frozen precipitation

[prisma briar]

It last hailed here like 4 days ago, lol.

[steel crag]

So am I, we just happen to have the Tropic of Cancer running thru our country

[steel crag]

They say snowflakes fell once in 1979 but not on this island one of the more northern ones

[balmy bough]

i will go camping when i finish my camper renovation 🙂

[prisma briar]

I'm at 6000'/1800m elevation right against a mouintain range so that's the cause of most of my weird weather

[steel crag]

Those are illegal here 😭

[balmy bough]

why?

[steel crag]

Hurricanes

[balmy bough]

oh...

[prisma briar]

I just had a pop-up camper, basically a fancy tent on wheels

[steel crag]

You can use them as an office like on a construction site

But not as a dwelling

[balmy bough]

Hmmm...

[prisma briar]

Propane tanks in general just quit working around that temperature. That's the condensation point for propane so it can't turn to gas anymore.

[balmy bough]

makes sense, liquid propane in the regulator would freeze it...

[prisma briar]

Your tank wouldn't have had any pressure to actually move the propane through the lines either

[balmy bough]

true

unfortunatly my standby generator is propane too...

[steel crag]

light a fire under the tank?

[prisma briar]

I have a gas one, though it needs a good cleaning before I'd be willing to run it again.

You can get electric propane tank heaters

[steel crag]

I know, tank blankets

[prisma briar]

https://www.powerblanket.com/products/propane-tank-heaters/20-pound-tank/

[steel crag]

use them on NOS tanks

well, used to

[balmy bough]

oh, ok. i will look for some. these are 100 pound tanks, not grill tanks

[prisma briar]

I built a propane forge and was considering one because 20gal tanks freeze over quickly

https://www.powerblanket.com/products/propane-tank-heaters/ has 100 lbs ones

[steel crag]

I have 100lb tanks for my stove but I have 5 20lb tanks as backup

[balmy bough]

$769!!! holy crap!

[prisma briar]

Literally the first page I found on Google, there's probably cheaper.

[balmy bough]

i hope so 🤣

[prisma briar]

I know when my brother got an engine block heater installed it was only like $250 including labor.

I assume they're about the same, lol. Never had a propane tank heater though.

[balmy bough]

my generator has a battery heater and oil heater. but yeah, i may have to get tank heaters too

[prisma briar]

Can you put the tanks in a shed and use some propane from the tanks to heat said shed? Then just use the electric heating in case you need to do a cold start

Or just move somewhere where you don't have to consider -40

That's what I'd do

[balmy bough]

can't afford to move 🤣

[prisma briar]

-40 would be enough to motivate me to figure out how to afford it, lol.

[balmy bough]

may have to build a little insulated shed and put a heater in it... like you said...

[prisma briar]

Are there any other fuels you can use?

Gasoline has a higher energy density

[balmy bough]

if i had a diesel generator, i could run kerosene in it

[prisma briar]

And doesn't really have this issue as much, though your engine can be too cold to burn it in

Kerosene freezes at -40 too

-40 is really cold

[balmy bough]

dag-nabit!!! 🤣

[static schooner]

Saves the trolley from having to back up for another run

[clever mortar]

Does it keep doubling...

[red rock]

Only one way to find out

[clever mortar]

(and at what point do we hit a buffer overflow)

Congratulations, you killed -1 people, the end of the world starts now

[prisma briar]

At some point you'd be taking the gamble that everyone doubles it and eventually you'll have to go lay down on the tracks

[prisma briar]

33 people doubling it would cover all of humanity

These trolleys pose a serious and significant existential threat.

[subtle pasture]

At some point there'd be so many people on the track that, even if you did select the option to kill, the trolly would gum up on meat and viscera and come to a stop before getting anywhere near killing everyone.

[prisma briar]

What if we put a snow plow on it

[static schooner]

yeah, who's to say that the fifth dude there would even get run over

[prisma briar]

https://www.nps.gov/places/russell-snowplow.htm

[subtle pasture]

Snow plows are designed to move whatever is in front of the plow to either one, or both, sides

Congrats, you saved everyone!

[prisma briar]

What about that snow plow

[subtle pasture]

Pretty sure meat would jam that

[prisma briar]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rotary_snowplow

Well we need a better trolley then

[subtle pasture]

https://youtu.be/RjBQ3MaBYiU?t=45

They're neat looking in action, though

[static schooner]

I'm afraid that many designs would cut the person in half and move each half to each side 🙂

[prisma briar]

Presumably those have to deal with hard large chunks of ice, and snow can weigh near what a person does by volume

[subtle pasture]

True, but snow doesn't turn into a sticky meat/bone mess inside the heated mechanism...

[prisma briar]

Let's do it on a snowy day so it gets washed out

[subtle pasture]

The chute that blows snow out the side would probably jam first, and then it's just a matter of time before the whole thing stops up

I think you underestimate how much meat 8 billion people constitutes. lol

Also, this conversation has gone... off the rails

rimshot

https://tenor.com/view/train-drift-multitrack-gif-8790057

[balmy bough]

i leave for less than an hour... and the conversation seems to have taken a dark turn... 🤣

found a decent deal on eBay for a "Konnected Alarm Panel Pro" to connect to my HA, for out in my workshop. 🙂 i thought i was going to have to build one myself, until i found out about Konnected. much easier, even if it is a bit expensive...

[clear ferry]

https://tenor.com/view/schitts-creek-its-very-dark-dark-morbid-intense-gif-10083282

You can diy konnected too

Don't need to buy the package

Just need an esp to $2 and some sensors

[balmy bough]

... well, now you tell me 🤣 i needed the ethernet connection though

shop has ethernet but no WiFi

and of course... now i found ESP32 with a ethernet... 🤦‍♂️

[subtle pasture]

It's honestly surprising how little hardware/ GPIO you need to get an ethernet link up and running

[balmy bough]

well, it's bought already, so i will work with it... and kicking myself in the butt every time i look at it

[subtle pasture]

Someone managed to get an ATTiny85 to link at 10mbps with a 2-wire connection handled directly by bitbanged GPIO

[balmy bough]

that's impressive...

[subtle pasture]

https://hackaday.com/2014/08/29/bit-banging-ethernet-on-an-attiny85/

Probably include some extra isolation so that nothing catches fire if the ground planes don't match up, but yeah...

[static schooner]

I tried to get a stable Ethernet connection working over the untwisted pair lines run for my alarm system back in the 80s and couldn't keep the link up

they work fine for RS485

[subtle pasture]

Ethernet needs twisted pair or coax

You might be able to go a few feet over untwisted pair

[balmy bough]

man... i really need to stop impulse buying... i would really rather not max out my PayPal Credit line... 🤣 🤦‍♂️

[subtle pasture]

The SSD sales got me

The Samsung 980 Pro 2TB is going for $99

[balmy bough]

only SSD i have is in my laptop. everything else is spinning rust

[subtle pasture]

I just retired my last SATA SSD with this upgrade

NVMe end-to-end now, aside from my BluRay drive and hot-swap bay.

[balmy bough]

i might say, i am a little jealous...

[subtle pasture]

It's a shame SATA Express never took off. That allowed for hot-swap bays that support both SATA disks and NVMe (U.2) disks.

[balmy bough]

i think they make SATA NVM drives... though i would think the SATA would slow it down...

oh, you just said that up above... 🤦‍♂️ 🤣

i do have a brain... i swear! 🤣

[solar zealot]

What's wrong with those Samsung's that they get rid of em for a hundred bucks

[subtle pasture]

SATA Express was a weird standard that could be two SATA ports or act as a PCIe 2x link for NVMe storage

[solar zealot]

😄

[subtle pasture]

It's also the entire reason PCIe 2x is a thing. 2x slots weren't an original part of the specification, it went directly from 1x to 4x.

[steel crag]

my pc doesn't have an m2 slot 😦

[subtle pasture]

Any PCIe slot can be adapted to M.2

[steel crag]

the motherboard won't boot from it tho

lol

[subtle pasture]

What motherboard?

[steel crag]

POS HP

with a 6th gen i7

[subtle pasture]

That should easily support booting from NVMe storage

[steel crag]

well, it doesn't LOL

[subtle pasture]

I've had systems as old as intel 2nd gen (i5 2500k on a z68 chipset) natively booting from NVMe storage.

NVMe boot has been officially supported since 4th gen

Sounds like some HP fuckery

[steel crag]

yeah if the mobo supports it

[balmy bough]

maybe the BIOS needs to be configured to boot from it

[steel crag]

the bios does not support it

[subtle pasture]

That said, if all else fails, you can install Clover on a USB flash drive and set it as the primary boot device

[steel crag]

I already check

[subtle pasture]

Clover will let any system boot from NVMe storage

[steel crag]

yeah this I already looked at

[subtle pasture]

What, does it not support booting from USB either? lol

[steel crag]

I don't have any free

lol

and I'm not buying expansion cards for that too to upgrade a system I'm saving to replace

[subtle pasture]

YOu can also throw Clover on any SATA disk 🤷‍♀️

[swift dirge]

have you seen the graphics card with an nvme slot on it?

[subtle pasture]

Yeah, it's a neat idea. They're relying on the motherboard supporting bifircation, though.

[swift dirge]

https://cdn.wccftech.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/07/ASUS-GeForce-RTX-4060-Ti-Concept-Graphics-Card-With-NVMe-M.2-SSD-Slots-_6-728x524.png

[subtle pasture]

So as long as your motherboard can set theprimary 16x slot to 8x8x (for one NVMe drive) or 8x4x4x (for two NVMe drives) you're golden

[steel crag]

I don't plan to upgrade my GPU right now

[swift dirge]

(explanation: It only uses a x8 slot. so if your MB supports it, you can use the rest for the drive)

😄

[steel crag]

just my motherboard, ram, cpu and psu

[solar zealot]

The sticker makes it a lot better

[swift dirge]

https://wccftech.com/asus-concept-geforce-rtx-4060-ti-gpu-comes-with-an-onboard-m-2-gen-4-ssd-slots/

[solar zealot]

Tho really this is the wrong solution. We need moar pcie lanes!!!!

[steel crag]

yeah If I could afford that card I could afford ALL the upgrades I want instead and just keep my GPU

[subtle pasture]

Nah, we need more PCIe 4 and 5 devices, then most devices can use 1 or 2 lanes rather than 4, 8, or 16 lanes.

[balmy bough]

<-- just needs a better brain 🤣

[solar zealot]

Well yes but no, more lanes comes with more sockets to plug more cards in

Kinda going back to how it started lmao

[subtle pasture]

Nothing stopping a motherboard manufacturer from putting eight M.2 slots on a motherboard (PCIe 5.0 1x each), providing the same bandwidth as a PCIe 3.0 4x slot to each drive.

Plenty of bandwidth, and an insane total number of drives/slots

[solar zealot]

Isn't there a board for crypto stuff which does that with pcie 2 speeds or something

[subtle pasture]

Also, modern intel systems already provide 32 CPU lanes (8 dedicated to the chipset) and 28 chipset lanes.

You need more than 52 lanes?

[solar zealot]

Yes

[subtle pasture]

For?

[steel crag]

stuff

[solar zealot]

Mostly yes but also yes

[swift dirge]

filling with 25TB nvme SSDs

[solar zealot]

Current designs just suck as the GPU blocks half of the other slots

[subtle pasture]

Already do-able with current systems 🤷‍♀️

[swift dirge]

😄 filling with 100? 😉

[solar zealot]

Adding more usb or networking kinda is a choice to make