thread-archived

[dusty dirge]

OK, thanks for the sanity check. I was able to pair my Eve MotionBlinds to Home Assistant Yellow with OTBR, so it feels like a connection is being made successfully. However, the device shows up with a status of "Unknown" as soon as it is added to HA, and none of the virtual controls work. I can ping the device OK. The device is fully charged. Nothing of interest shows up on home-assistant.log after I pair it.

[sick swan]

Do you have other border routers than the Yellow?

Check the Matter Server add-on logs, it might have more details about why the connection fails.

[polar thunder]

also try just restarting home assistant. i've had instances in the past where nothing would populate on the device info page until a reboot

[tired juniper]

blind offline within 30 mins now

[dusty dirge]

Thanks, I had no idea the add-ons had their own logs as I'm new to troubleshooting HA. Unfortunately, everything looks normal in both the Matter Server and the OBTR add-on logs. I mean, I guess I wouldn't know what it looks like to see a successful command go through, but nothing is showing up as suspicious or an error (I lowered the log level to debug/detail just in case).

[dusty dirge]

I have no other border routers.

[dusty dirge]

Lol, got it working. Apparently the motion blind has TWO buttons on it, but mine was missing one. So I thought I was pressing the correct button to set the end positions, when apparently all I was doing was resetting the positions every time, which also provides the exact same feedback as if you were setting the end positions. Once I figured out where the missing button was, I used a hair pin to poke the actual switch inside the mechanism, and was able to actually program the end positions. When I did that, HA finally changed from Unknown status to a proper position status and my blinds work fine now. I blame myself for not understanding the missing button, I blame Omniablinds for not sending me a complete product, I blame Eve for an unintiutive feedback mechanism, and I blame HA for... nothing I guess? Somehow the Matter/TBR setup was the easy part, but its still so complicated that I thought I must have done it wrong. 🙂

[sick swan]

Hehe, thanks for the feedback!

[sick swan]

In what configuration? Did you try with a single BR (the closest one) to rule out communication issues between the BRs?

[void siren]

Hello ! I'm looking for some guidance on my issue: after seeing many messages that the use of Multiprotocol implementation is now discouraged I decided to switch my installation to the classic setup since I still have not so many thread devices. But I failed to do that switch and I have no clue where to look at in order to understand what is failing: thread, matter, the phone setup or anything else ... no clue at all !
I am stuck on the "checking for network connectivity" for minutes and it fails.

I created a post on the community forum but I had no answer, which means my thread installation is down for days now. And I am still not able to understand where this is not working property.
Here is my post on community: https://community.home-assistant.io/t/switch-my-installation-from-multiprotocol-to-standard-openthreadrouter-failed/748519
Do anyone had ideas what I could do to debug that issue when my phone is "checking for network connectivity" ?
Thanks !

[twin vine]

are you trying to pair via ios or android?

[void siren]

android. Samsung Galaxy S23+

[crude willow]

@sick swan @tired juniper I believe I have a similar case. I have to restart my Google nest to get the network up and running.

No special network. However I believe I did have some multicast issues. So I would assume that it might have something to do with multicast. But not sure.

Currently it is also offline. Could I help in any way?

[crude willow]

Can you please send me a picture of your product? And when did you order it? I am part of the development team for Motionblinds.

What part do you think is unintiutive for eve? @dusty dirge ?

And did you use the manual?

[polar thunder]

You might have to clear Google Play Services data, even for a third party TBR.

[digital salmon]

I am a Ubiquiti Unifi user. All my devices are in the same VLAN like all my Apple devices (iPhones, iPads, AppleTVs, HomePods) and my HA Yellow. I have some some IoT devices in a different VLAN. It makes no difference for me. If I have the mDNS refelector active or not. I tested both settings over several months. But yes, in case you are unsure, you should disable it. 😉

I have a UDM-SE. 😃

My environment:

• udm-se: 4.0.6
  • network application: 8.3.32
  • protect application: 4.0.33
• switches:
  • 1x usw-pro-aggregation: 7.0.50
  • 1x usw-enterprise-24-poe: 7.0.50
  • 1x usw-pro-max-16-poe: 7.0.50
• access points:
  • 2x u6-pro: 7.0.62
  • 4x u7-pro: 7.0.62

Sometimes I have issues with the Thread meshing procedure, when all TBRs were shutdown. But when everything works, then it works for ever…

Yeah, this should definitely stay disabled.

[twin vine]

Wait u6 pros on 7.0.62? Shouldn’t they be on 6.6.75?

[digital salmon]

Oh, yeah… I had some WiFi meshing issues. The 2 U6-Pro are in my barn. So not a major issue, if they do not work as expected. But they work fine for me with that firmware. Another user in the Unifi community gave me that hint. There is a download link in the firmware releases thread for the U6-Mesh-Pro. U6-Mesh-Pro and U6-Pro are both Gen 6 APs with QCA chipset. So they are nearly the same AP. My Apple TBRs do not connect to these two U6-Pro. 😉

[tired juniper]

Was trying the multicast stuff off first. Although after that one disconnect it's been connected for about 12 hours now will see how it goes and try the 1 border router next if this doesn't help

[tired juniper]

Yea I've played with the multicast settings seeing how it goes

Thanks guys for helping btw

[spark hornet]

@crude willowEve MotionBlinds is the best Matter over Thread Motor I have ever tested, I have tested SmartWings.Zemismart.JIECANG.and other motors from local Chinese brands

@crude willowAnd I have found that two niche brands in China have already adopted the same Hall sensor pull rope structure as Eve MotionBlinds

The experience of the Hall rope structure feels great

[crude willow]

@spark hornet can you share me the names? Because it is patented.

If you want you can send a dm.

[twin vine]

Ah patent fun 😔

[crude willow]

Yeah. But China 🤷🏻‍♂️

So what ever your patent is worth

But it is more that we can tell our customers. See they are copying us.

[twin vine]

True, not like you can go after them if they are based in china

[crude willow]

Our customers don't understand pull

But a lot of end users under stand correctly

[spark hornet]

@crude willowAt first, I also suspected that they were leaking your patent from the factory (we need to get specific products and prove that they did plagiarize). I will consider your proposal and send you a private message later (although this is not uncommon in China, a highly competitive country, but this behavior is shameful)

@spring bramble Good news! TUO has promised to make more improvements for consumers, thank you for your feedback

https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeKit/comments/1e34l4b/introducing_arre_and_so_much_more/

[frigid nymph]

I really wish them the best, I really really want to like their products, being Matter/Thread. But the biggest hiccup I found was the incredible arrogance with which Mr. Gabbay interacted with his customers and potential customers. We will see how their rebranding develops, I for sure am watching with interest

[spice imp]

there needs to be some incentive to be the first in the market. Why develop something yourself if you just can wait for others to do it and copy it? It can be annoying and the current laws are maybe not the best but the other way is not necessarily better.

[spark hornet]

Aha, Gabbay is not suitable for social work. They should hire someone with basic social skills.

[tired juniper]

Anyone tried this sensor?

Qingping Motion & Light Sensor, Works with Apple HomeKit via Thread or Bluetooth, Two Sensors Combined for Various Automation, Long Standby Time https://amzn.eu/d/0fFRc1Ut

[spark hornet]

They have developed the Matter version internally. I will get started later. I suggest you wait a little longer to buy.

[tired juniper]

so it wont currently work with HA?

what about the aqara p2

i thought matter was meant to be a standard so why would stuff need quirks etc

[crude willow]

not everything in matter is supported yet

so sometimes devices have more features than matter currently has available

for instance our motors can be set up in the eve app (currently iOS and homekit only)

This will never* be supported in matter, because there is no standardized way of setting up a blind

atleast i dont think we will see it in matter*

So not sure for the P2, but I believe if it is a bit similar too eve motion, you might not be able to change the interval

but not sure if that is supported currently

[dusty dirge]

Hi Jerry - I ordered my MotionBlind in late June from OmniaBlinds. I sent them an email yesterday informing them I was missing the button, hopefully they can make it right. Here is a photo of the mechanism with the missing button. https://imgur.com/a/Ur413zO

[crude willow]

Thank you. Could you send me some pictures overal of the blind?

So I can tell our salesman how they sell it

If they sell it 'incorrectly' we can say something about it

Like the button for instance

Would be great to hear your answers on my other question.

[dusty dirge]

I think the only thing that would be helpful is to have the feedback be different LED colors or different pattern of LED blinks to indicate when the shade had been programmed in a distinct way. Up position, down position, favorite position, and fully reset could all be given different colors or patterns so its crystal clear to the user what just happened. The generic "quick up and down" of the shade misled me to believe I was setting the positions when I was really just resetting it over and over again, and that made me feel dumb.

[crude willow]

The led only has 2 colors. And on some blinds we don't even have a led. So we have to do it with stepping up and down.

And did you have the manual?

I create the manual also. So it's good to hear feedback.

[dusty dirge]

Yeah that makes sense, I figured there were design/hardware limitations. I did have the manual and the quickstart guide.

[crude willow]

I've done over 50 tests with individuals to find the 'optimal' manual

But I understand what you are saying

[dusty dirge]

Missing the button really threw me off. It made me think that "hole" was the actual reset button, and the position button was the LED button

[crude willow]

But I believe it mostly has to do with missing the button

[dusty dirge]

Agreed. Not much you can do about that haha

[crude willow]

Yeah and that's probably why indeed you 'messed' up

[dusty dirge]

Gotta run, but I will try to get you a full pic of the shade later

[crude willow]

Unfortunate to hear. But glad to hear you got it fixed

[dusty dirge]

Yeah its all good. So far really happy with it. 🙂

[crude willow]

No problem. Hopefully you enjoy the blind

And the button is just for setting up

So no need to have it

It just looks better with

[dusty dirge]

The next test is to see how consistent the connection is... if everything seems fine for a few weeks, definitely buying more!

[crude willow]

Good to hear

Are you from the US?

I can give you cheaper places

I think

[dusty dirge]

Thanks for your help. It's cool that you're engaging with the community.

Yeah US

[crude willow]

Of course. Without community no good blinds.

I like to hear feedback

Good or bad.

I want to be proud of our product

That's why I want to know how our customers deliver it to end users.

Unfortunately we don't have control about that. But we can complain with our customers saying that their customers are not satisfied and are 'complaining' online

That's our only way to get them to send it out correctly

[faint siren]

I'm already feeling regret about choosing an Echo 4th Gen as my TBR.

[faint siren]

After maybe 20 attempts it finally worked. But why does it always have to be such a struggle? lol

[void siren]

Not sure what the correct way of doing it could be. But I clear the Google Play Services storage, I also removed Google Home app and installed it again. I synced from HA companion troubleshooting section the Thread credentials. I also went to the Thread service to sync with Home Assistant, but there was nothing to sync. And I still get this "checking network connectivity" that does not finish.
Maybe there is something more to do that I am not aware of

[polar thunder]

dumb question

are you connected to a 2.5ghz wifi network

this shouldn't matter but i've had thread device commissioning fail because my phone was on my 5ghz network

[void siren]

I am not sure, this is a full mesh Wi-Fi network so I have not so much control on it. I can double check, but it was working with the exact same hardware, not issues on my 5/6 threads devices, the only difference is the switch from mutiprocol to standard installation. So I guess that if it was working before with my Wi-Fi setup, it must still be the case. I will see if I can shut down the 5/6GHz, in case it makes a difference

[tired juniper]

id have thought something like a motion sensor would have been likely to be supported should not all motion sensors at least for the binary sensor for motion and battery % be standard in matter?

[faint siren]

Looking at that motion sensor, it supports Thread but not Matter.

It should probably change in the future, but for now not all Thread devices support Matter.

[tired juniper]

ah k

[tired juniper]

blind has been connected for 24 hours since the multicast enhancements turned off touch wood

ive also added a thread smart plug to help the mesh

i dont actually want to control it if i disable the device in HA i assume it will still actually be in the mesh just not visable in front end?

[void siren]

Same issue with only 2.4GHz enabled on my router. None of the device is able to go through the process, checking network connectivity then fails.

[crude willow]

All of the things you mention are in.

But not timeout if I'm correct

Like if no motion for x seconds

[faint siren]

I had the same issue earlier trying to connect the U200 using a Echo 4th Gen. It kept failing around that point for me too.

I just kept trying with two different phones and I had the Echo right beside the lock. After dozens of attempts it finally worked.

Don't know how much that kind of close proximity helps, I was just desperate and was willing to try it.

[void siren]

I am 1 meter away from the stick, both my phone and the products I am trying to include, so I don't think range can be an issue in my case. It was initially working from my office, which is meters away !

[sick swan]

That one works well here with HA.

[sick swan]

So your only change was just disabling the Multicast enhancement setting?

I actually just stumbled upon this blog post, which suggest the exact opposite (enable Multicast enhancements) 🙈

But he disabled another option, Multicast and Broadcast Control 🤔
https://tomasmcguinness.com/2023/02/10/matter-unifi-and-mdns/

To my understanding, having both disabled increases chances that mDNS properly get propagated through the network making sure Matter devices stay available.
https://evanmccann.net/blog/2021/11/unifi-advanced-wi-fi-settings#fnr5

[spring bramble]

Exactly also my experience while debugging with Unifi gear (and other brands as well) - These settings are really targetted to enterprise environments where multicast traffic needs to be limited to the bare minimum. It doesnt play nice with all domestic (IoT) protocols. Best to keep the network as "dumb" as possible.

If I remember correctly, the Unifi UDM also had some flaws in the IGMP/MLD Snooping area so turning that OFF may help as well.

[vapid shell]

Yes, toggling snooping is a known troubleshooting step for homekit too

[rich river]

I've a UniFi UDM and I've got everything turned off
This being after a couple of years of trying to troubleshoot HomeKit comms, and finally working out that leaving stuff turned off worked the best.
Basic thought... assume it's designed to work with your base standard ISP supplied router level of settings and work from there 🙂

[tired juniper]

Yes but also added a thread plug too

[indigo mortar]

I'd like to public acknowledge a change in my message here after chatting at length with @magic girder privately. There was an assumption of intent in the messaging from the good doctor - a common occurrence on the internet. I apologize for this.

While perceived as a direct attack, Dream Doctor was attempting to lay out their frustrations in a general picture. Regardless of intent, the perspective of others does matter and understanding the impact on others with what one says is good to reflect on before you post - even when responding. Another good thing to do, which I am attempting to show an example of, is to acknowledge when you were wrong in a situation. While I have worked privately to talk with people, it feels right to let everyone else know what I learned from this situation and how I will move forward.

I will not reprimand people publicly going forward, not at first. I will be sure to have conversations with them to listen to their perspective and frustrations. However here is your general reminder for this community: Please feel encouraged to flag things to the mods or even directly to me if you feel things are getting heated with any community member. This hasn't been a common practice in the past and I want to make that more frequent in our community. 🙂
-# Thanks for coming to my TEDTalk, I'll be here all week.

[sick swan]

Kk I see, but since the Motion Blind was super close to your BR it is unlikely that this was the fix. Most likely the mDNS setting change, I reckon.

[crude willow]

any idea where to look for in netgear r7800 routers 😛

Or it could be a faulty eve energy 🤷‍♂️

will try to add more through the house

[sick swan]

Wdym?

[crude willow]

Well I have a similar issue, I have multiple matter thread devices that all get unavailable

when I restart the nest hub v2 all get back up

[magic surge]

What hardware is needed for matter over thread support in HA?

[crude willow]

you need a BR

like a nest hub v2 or homepod mini

https://evehome.com/en/hub

here is a list of hubs

[sick swan]

Ah I see. Yeah not sure if that is really R7800 related though 😅 I don't think that Netgear does such stuff typically.

[crude willow]

but I believe here most people use homepods / nest hubs.

[magic surge]

So I need to add google account into HA ?

I don't have any ios device

[crude willow]

no you add the google nest hub to your google account

[sick swan]

We also have our own list of Border Routes which work with HA:
https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/thread#list-of-thread-border-router-devices

[crude willow]

thanks @sick swan did not know that one 🙂

[crude willow]

No I understand. But since the issue from @tired juniper got fixed because of multicast I was hoping this would also fix my issue

Because it 'seems' to be similar

[magic surge]

There is no usb dongle for thread like we have for zigbee?

[crude willow]

there is

Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1

but I think most people would recommend a BR from one of the list

[sick swan]

You probably meant @tired juniper .

One thing you can try is not have the BR over your WiFi access point, but directly Ethernet connected. Then you can connect the HA instance and the BR to a dumb switch. That way the Router can't interfere (as mDNS is L2, and that will be handled by the switch). Or turn HA into a BR, and see if that solves it 😎

[sick swan]

Not me 😜

[crude willow]

haha ok 😛

[crude willow]

correct, meant exterma indeed.

[polar thunder]

this talk has given me a potentially dumb idea
i've got a bunch of older pis i'm not doing anything with. a 3, a zero....
you think i could just slap a zbt-1 on them, and install OTBR to make them lil border routers around the house?

is this even a good idea or should i not bother with having multiple border routers and just stick to routing end devices

[crude willow]

routers should be more than enough I would say

[spring bramble]

multiple border routers enhances stability and speed so yes, its a good idea to add more but be careful with mix and matching brands/types. If your main BR is now HA with OTBR, I'd just add more OTBR based BR's (with TREL)

[polar thunder]

nahh my main border router is a roommate's homepod mini. it's very inconvenient for me since i don't use any apple devices but the rest of the household uses iPhones and HomeKit so unfortunately I don't really have a say in the matter lmao

if mix and matching is still dicey then no point in going through with this, ok

infuriatingly i could be having two BRs right now but the apple tv will not talk to the homepod mini for whatever reason (and now the point is moot, another roommate took the apple tv and factory reset it to his apple id and apple is clear in their documentation that border routers have to be activated to the apple home owner and not just an admin)

[spring bramble]

Adding OTBR to Apple network should go fine

[feral horizon]

In thread, what decides what IPv6 prefix to use?

[sick swan]

The Thread border router. I think it is kinda first comes first serve which one defines the prefix, at least for OTBRs. I guess commercial TBRs might behave different...

I wrote a bit of addressing stuff down in my blog: https://blog.printk.io/2024/02/thread-border-router-technical-deep-dive-part-1/

[feral horizon]

is it possible to use something like ospf or bgp and a custom prefix for the OMR?

[faint siren]

In the future all these TBR will work together instead of creating their own network, right?

[twin vine]

Yes, that’s the plan 😅

[faint siren]

Probably going to be late 2025 until we see it at best. But at least it's coming.

[twin vine]

you can sorta do it already, but like you need a bit of a hacky work around to force border routers onto a network

like, if you set up the HA one first, synced creds to your phone, and set up everything else from scratch. it works

[void siren]

The thing is that I do not know if my setup currently works. I did the switch from the multiprotocol installation but currently none of my devices can be included. Which means that maybe my thread and matter setup is not okay.
If at least I was able to add one device, then it could be linked to proximity or anything else for a particular device.

And I do not know where to have a look to have any error message telling me why the check network connectivity fails, what it is trying to do, which stage, and what is not answered, maybe.

[faint siren]

Probably a dumb question but I must ask. Are we forced to use the app of the brand that the TBR is associated with?

So Homepod owners must use the Home kit app, Echo owners must use Alexa, etc.?

[sick swan]

I am not aware that OpenThread supports ospf or bpg. Keep in mind this is more consumer tech than enterprise networking.

You can set a custom OMR prefix however. But the functionality isn't really exposed currently. So you'd need to exec into the container and use the ot-ctl utility direclty.

[sick swan]

For TBR setup, you are kinda force to use their ecosystem yes. Then it depends if the particular ecosystem has some functionality to share the credentials. Currently our compagnion app allow to import Thread credentials from Google and Apple. Others have managed to somehow manually extract/find the credentials and add it to HA.

However, for Matter we currently use the credentials on your phone. And how thigns are currently, if you have a Apple BR or Google BR then this will take precedence on the app side.

[faint siren]

@sick swan Okay got it. Myself personally I used Alexa because I got a Echo as my TBR. And then I shared it to Home Assistant.

It's just that I was wondering if I will always have to use Alexa for Thread devices as long as that is my only TBR.

I've heard more bad things about Alexa than the other two so I was concerned. But I did manage to get the U200 to work eventually.

[feral horizon]

Right, I just like to do stuff like this, making things do what they aren't designed for. It's fun playing with these😂

Is there any plan to allow a custom prefix in HA settings without having to dig into the container? If I do dig into the container, will it be persistent?

[sick swan]

No plans to make this configurable. I also don't really see what the value would be behind that 🤔

I guess if you want a public routable prefix that might make sense 🤔 Actually not sure if OTBR has something built-in which allows to select a IPv6 prefix if IPv6 PD is available. That is what Apple BRs do.

[void siren]

I managed to progress on my issue: Commissioning is working through Home Assistant, with a USB dongle, and calling the websocket server setting the dataset then asking for commissionning with the key.
All my devices are included. Which clearly means that I have an issue commissionning with my Samsung Galaxy S23+ … but I still don’t know which issue exactly !

Moreover I was not able to add my Nuki Smart Lock 4.0 Pro back in my installation.
The code looks strange, as if they were two Matter code one of top of the other.
So I don’t know how to call the commission api with that code, and only using “the first one” did not work. The second one is missing one number just before the last digit. But maybe the full set is the code …

[sick swan]

Do you have it paired with another controller? Than you can get the code there...

The 11 digit setup code or the QR could in ASCII should work through the WS directly.

All my devices are included. Which clearly means that I have an issue commissionning with my Samsung Galaxy S23+ … but I still don’t know which issue exactly !

This does sound to me like some WiFi issue. Do you happen to have Unifi gear 😅 There are "Multicast/Broadcast optimizations" which prevent these packets from reaching your phone. It could of course also be your phone somehow missbehaving, but S23 is relatively new, so that would surprise me..

To onboard Thread devices RIO (Router Information Option) must be supported by Android, but according to Google that should the case since Android 8.1 or so.. But maybe Samsung disabled/removed that feature? 🤔

[spring bramble]

If you update to the latest Matter Server beta, you can now also use the Matter server's own UI to commission devices directly.
Just make sure that you assign a dedicated bluetooth adapter in the addon config (it must not be shared with HA core).
I just tested it with a cheap TP Link U400 bluetooth stick and it works very well.

Only downside for now is that you need to manually paste the Thread dataset code (very long string) in the matter server UI but I'm sure we can fix that soon.

[void siren]

no, it is only connected to the Nuki Hub, no matter involved.

[spring bramble]

You actually need to enable matter pairing mode from their app

that will put the lock into pairing mode and then either scan the QR on your phone or us ethe direct commissioning with the super long code

[void siren]

It's already done, I went through the process a lot of time, I have it since the beginning, I made a review on this lock. I will try the long code, I thought there was a format for that code, and as it was two lines, I thought the second one was a second code for something else

[void siren]

I am trying again, but this seems not successful. The pattern of the code is:
XXXX-XXX-XXXX
XXXX-XXX-XX-X

[sick swan]

The first one looks right. But the dashes get removed anyways.

[void siren]

yes, sure. I am typing all numbers, no dashes. But the comissionning does not complete

2024-07-16 23:53:16.259 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.device_controller] Starting Matter commissioning with code using Node ID 6. [New Thread 0x7fffea3fc700 (LWP 260)] [New Thread 0x7fffe9bfb700 (LWP 261)] 2024-07-16 23:53:19.540 (Dummy-2) INFO [root] Established secure session with Device 2024-07-16 23:53:25.483 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DL] Long dispatch time: 109 ms, for event type 16389 2024-07-16 23:54:04.457 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.EM] Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:93343303 on exchange 51640i with Node: <0000000000000000, 0> sendCount: 4 max retries: 4 2024-07-16 23:54:11.475 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.SC] CASESession timed out while waiting for a response from the peer. Current state was 1 2024-07-16 23:54:11.477 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.CTL] Session establishment failed for <0000000000000006, 1>, error: src/protocols/secure_channel/CASESession.cpp:560: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout. Next retry expected to get a response to Sigma1 or fail within 11 seconds 2024-07-16 23:54:39.416 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.EM] Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:93343305 on exchange 51643i with Node: <0000000000000000, 0> sendCount: 4 max retries: 4 2024-07-16 23:55:15.184 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.SC] CASESession timed out while waiting for a response from the peer. Current state was 3 2024-07-16 23:55:15.198 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.CTL] Session establishment failed for <0000000000000006, 1>, error: src/app/OperationalSessionSetup.cpp:257: CHIP Error 0x00000032: Timeout. Next retry expected to get a response to Sigma1 or fail within 35 seconds 2024-07-16 23:55:43.438 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.EM] Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:93343308 on exchange 51646i with Node: <0000000000000000, 0> sendCount: 4 max retries: 4

[sick swan]

CASE? It should build up a PASE session

Maybe that is a dead node otherwise? Make sure to delete any lingering nodes e.g. from previously commissioned Nuki locks or so.

I guess the CASE errors are not related here.

But this seems to be the relevant part:

2024-07-16 23:53:19.540 (Dummy-2) INFO [root] Established secure session with Device
2024-07-16 23:53:25.483 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DL] Long dispatch time: 109 ms, for event type 16389
2024-07-16 23:54:04.457 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.EM] Failed to Send CHIP MessageCounter:93343303 on exchange 51640i with Node: <0000000000000000, 0> sendCount: 4 max retries: 4

This sounds very much like the Nuki Lock did not like the code you provided.

Or communication issue otherwise.

[void siren]

success ! I guess it was a network issue, I triggered the commissioning again, it succedeed.
Using a Bluetooth dongle and the UI is far more easy that my smartphone or the API !
I love it ! 😻

[sick swan]

Congrats!

[void siren]

But one day I would like to understand why the Companion App and the Google Home thing cause trouble for commissioning. It was working well once I was in Multiprotocol, but now its over, I can't figure out what is not properly configured

[spring bramble]

Maybe the therad credentials in the google keychain messed up. There is a way to reset it but it a bit intrusive where you need to reset the complete playstore storage

Anyways good to hear that at least the direct commissioning worked! Maybe also nice to know for other folks what bluetooth dongle you used

Oh and this may sound obvious but the range of the bluetooth dongle is ofc super limited so always bring the device you want to comission close (within 10 meters) from your HA server with the stick (and then you know why we focus on the mobile apps instea dof local bluetooth)

[void siren]

Yes, I did it.
I tried to log what I did on community.

• Reset the Google Play Services on my Android device
• Uninstall/Resinstall the Google Home app on my Android device
• Trigger the inclusion next to my USB dongle, with both my phone and the Matter/Thread device to add
• Sync the Thread credentials from the Troubleshooting section of the HA Companion app
• Sync Thread for the Thread service in the HA Companion app
• Set my Wi-Fi to 2.4GHz only

https://community.home-assistant.io/t/switch-my-installation-from-multiprotocol-to-standard-openthreadrouter-failed/748519

[void siren]

I used my Asus one : ASUS USB-BT500

[magic girder]

Thought I'd post a quick update on my struggles with provisioning commission ESP32-C6 matter-over-thread devices via HA on Android. I was able to commission this device using an iOS phone, however I don't normally have access to one, so I was hoping to get the Android app to work. Here's what I've tried so far.

• I replaced the ESP32-C6 RCP device with an nRF52840 dongle flashed with recent Nordic RCP firmware. However this didn't have any impact. The ESP32 device still failed to provision in exactly the same way, so I'm going to assume that the issue is not the RCP device.
• I did some detailed troubleshooting of the IPv6 environment. I checked that an mdns discovery app on the android phone was able to detect the HA OTBR meshcop service, and the phone was able to ping that address. That should confirm that the phone is able to directly communicate with OTBR via IPv6, as I believe it needs to do. I also swapped out my wifi router for a completely different brand, just in case, which had no effect.
• As another test I also tried adding an independent OTBR instance, built from the latest version on a separate bare-metal Ubuntu machine, with the REST API functionality included, and added that to HA, replacing the inbuilt OTBR. HA detected this and I was able to add it using the REST address. However this also failed to provision in the exact same way.

At each stage I synced the credentials in the android app multiple times, just to be sure. I've also cleared the Google Play storage on the phone, just in case.

I see that the latest 6.3.0 updates adds the ability to directly commission devices from the UI, which is fantastic, so I'll give that a try later. I'll also try and find some nRF52840 end-device thread over matter firmware to see if a completely different end device makes any difference.

[faint siren]

So I decided to unplug the power to my Echo and plug it back in, it's my Thread Border Router. And now my U200 is disconnected.

[twin vine]

Your only thread border router?

[faint siren]

When I click on "View Thread Network", the Echo says "none.local" underneath it. I don't know what that means though.

[faint siren]

Actually I have 2 more. Which are my Nest Wifi routers. But I didn't realized they were TBR's since I've never seen anyone mention that they worked.

The only reason I got them was because someone was selling 2 for $30 and I thought it would be a good way to expand my wifi coverage.

But I guess I'll give them a shot and see if I can use them instead.

[faint siren]

If I want to try and add my U200 to the Google Thread Network, do I first need to remove it from the Alexa one?

[magic girder]

Another quick follow up.... After a few tries I was able to commission the ESP32-C6 end device using the new commissioning functionality of the Matter UI. In case anyone else is wondering, the matter UI will ask for the current dataset, which can be found in the configure section of your thread integration. Just click the "i" symbol to the right of your thread network name, and it's listed as "Active dataset TLVs:". Just copy that large number. The Matter UI will also ask for the pairing code, which is sometimes listed as "manual pairing code" on your device.

[feral horizon]

yup, public routable prefix is what I am looking for. PD would be great as well. I can setup a DHCPv6 server and assign a prefix to it

[sick swan]

Ok. Yeah PD seems more sensible to me, since prefixes are often not statically assigned (and manually updating would be PITA 😅 ).

I need to check if that is maybe a compile time flag in OTBR. Since Apple BRs do it, it might be just behind a feature flag or something (and afaik Apple's BR are also based on OTBR, just a bit more modified, I reckon).

[sick swan]

Yeah we could implement that dataset transfer in the backend as well. Nobody took the time so far 🙈

@magic girder btw, I am working on a ESP32-C6 project here too. So far I only used WiFi though. But that seems to work well.

What I've noticed is that logging slows down the firmware heavily 🙈 Setting the log level to 2, which avoids the Matter SDK "progress" log makes commissioning much much faster. It also avoids the slow transition times when setting the brightness of the light 🎉

[magic girder]

Oh that's great info, thank you! I'll be working on the firmware today so I'll reduce that logging and see how it goes.

[tired juniper]

@crude willow I broke one of the plastic covers that covers the screws on the motionblind when attempting to remove it is there anyway to get replacements?

[ionic plaza]

Is there a way to assign or resign a leader manually? I found somehow Wemo plug would be elected as a leader and cause issues (the plug went unresponsive and nodes attached to it went offline)

[sick swan]

I don't think so. From: https://openthread.io/guides/thread-primer/node-roles-and-types

It is dynamically self-elected for fault tolerance, and aggregates and distributes network-wide configuration information.

Probably best is to remove the Wemo plug from the network (and report to them that their device is buggy 😅 ). I had similar experience with Onvis S4. It is ESP32 based. I guess Wemo too? Maybe some bug in the ESP32 OpenThread implementation? 🤔

[ionic plaza]

Wemo's NXP same as Aqara

Onvis S4 has issue either? I happen to have one in my network😮‍💨

[faint siren]

I just bought the Onvis S4, but only for testing purposes.

I'll probably return it a few days later and get a pack of 4 Zigbee plugs. So Amazon shouldn't be too upset at me

[ionic plaza]

I'll buy more Eve 🥲 to replace them, and see if thread network would stabilize

[digital salmon]

Is there an easy way in HA to validate, which device is the leader?

[spring bramble]

Not at the moment, it will probably take us a while before we can have a nice dashboard showing all that info 😅

You do have your HA OTBR also added to the therad network right ?

Because then you could connect to the web interface of otbr

[twin vine]

yeah, OTBR web UI is the easiest, just gotta match that rloc to the device

[digital salmon]

No, I do not use HA OTBR at the moment.

Is this web UI working now. I used it a year ago. But with 20 devices it already made some harm to my Thread network. Now I have Matter over Thread network 60 devices… 😅

I can try that. Thanks

[digital salmon]

Do you still use it? Do you have any issues, when using it? How many Thread devices do you have nowadays?

[twin vine]

14 routers, and 10 end devices, so 14 all up

takes a few refresh to get it all to show, but its good for basic info

[digital salmon]

I remember that refreshing the view did some damage to my thread network. Ok, but I will try it again, when I find the time.

[spark hornet]

I hope that Thread 1.4 will bring a real usable Thread network configuration tool, such as allowing us to choose which device to use as the Thread Router.

[ionic plaza]

use eve app

[magic girder]

If you're commissioning DIY devices (those using a test vendor id) using the HA companion app on Android, you will absolutely need to add those devices to the Google Home Developer Console before you can commission them. Unfortunately, if this isn't done correctly, you won't get any helpful errors explaining this has to be done, things will just fail without explanation. This doesn't appear to be necessary when using iOS devices, nor when using the new matter web UI in HA. Here is a very nice, simple video explaining how to add your devices to the Google Home Dev Console.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R_kpSO7PtUo

[ionic plaza]

Google has lift that policy

[magic girder]

Oh? I haven't seen this. Can you tell me where this was announced?

[sick swan]

@ionic plaza I haven't heard of such a policy change either, are your sure?

The docs page still mentions the developer console for device testing: https://developers.home.google.com/matter/integration/pair#pairing_restrictions

[ionic plaza]

Last updated 2022-12-15 UTC

[sick swan]

Hehe, well wonder if that is really true or just the date got not updated

The developer console is also mentioned in their step by step guide, which is newer: https://developers.home.google.com/codelabs/matter-device#2

[ionic plaza]

you can give it a try and hit that Add Anyway button😂

[sick swan]

Ok, that is really nice IMHO! Yeah I have that exception in my developer console, so didn't try for a long time 😅

[tired juniper]

Right so the blind this morning I pressed open via HAand it opened but HA still shows closed also I'm now unable to control it I get timeout errors BUT my thread smart plug 2m from it is working fine

So now I'm wondering if this is actually a motion blind issue

To get it back I had to reboot all 3 google displays then blind came back online plug was working fine the entire time I rebooted them one at a time

So it's either the blind itself or google if the plug is working the signal can't be an issue and at least one border router must be working

Wish I could see how the blind is connected through which devices

[tired juniper]

Wow it's quite in here lol

[faint siren]

For anyone who still have Nest Wifi routers laying around, you can use them as Thread Border Routers.

I just disconnected my U200 from an Echo and added it to HA using the Nest Wifi since I sent the credentials to HA.

Only reason I mention this is because it doesn't seem to be widely known. I've asked all over the place including here, but no one could confirm it for me.

[ionic plaza]

https://www.evehome.com/en-us/hub

Google and lots of thread vendors should have mentioned this

But Nest wifi is Wi-Fi 5, pretty old I think

[faint siren]

I'm aware that it's listed as having Thread. But when I've actually asked here and made threads on Reddit, I couldn't find a single person to confirm it for me.

I know it sounds silly, I should just trust the listing. But I really wanted to hear it from someone who has used it. And no one had.

[ionic plaza]

not a popular router I suppose

[twin vine]

yeah, people dont normally buy a router for the reason it has a thread BR in it 😅

[faint siren]

Well the idea in my head is that these things should be somewhat popular right?

But not one early adopter who wanted to try Thread early had one laying around to test it out?

[little sigil]

idk why my light keeps dropping out. i use espressif otbr, the border router is connected via ethernet, i can ping my light directly (and reliably) via its ipv6 address, my light works fine when i connect to it with nanoleaf app via thread, but in matter it keeps dropping out and reconnecting every couple minutes.

[steep sparrow]

Good Morning. After setting up HA Yellow to act as a thread border router, my HA tells me it's discovered a new device: "Mac mini (Music/iTunes)
Apple TV". Is this coincidence or does this mean I can use the mac mini to act as another border router? (apologies if posting in wrong place)

[twin vine]

Uh no, I think it’s referring to this

https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/apple_tv

[steep sparrow]

hmm. ok. super weird tho. I've had HA running for months and always had the mac mini. Weird that it just discovered this weekend.

[worthy adder]

I'm wanting to migrate to Matter for alot of my sensors, but I have proclivity to want to use Thread instead of WiFi.. but all of the danged smart switches I can fine are WiFi???!!!.. what's going on here, the benefit of an always powered device is the mesh network improvement in the Thread network.. Anyone got any thoughts or ideas or better.. products?

US ^^

[marble perch]

@little sigil what firmware are you using on the espressif otbr, and how many thread/matter devices are connected?

if network conditions are marginal (some packets get lost some of the time) then it's possible that connectionless stuff like ping would mostly work, but something important to matter could get lost in a way that means the mdns drops or ha needs to resubscribe.

[pliant stump]

Something like these? https://inovelli.com/collections/inovelli-white-series

[worthy adder]

Stud!!! Yes

[thorny needle]

Quick question. Does iOS still not support receiving thread creds from HA?

I see the creds in the apple keychain when I go to iOS companions debugging but I'm still getting a thread router required error when attempting to pair.

Tried via Android as well after syncing thread creds and got the error "Cant connect to the thread network home-assistant"

[spring bramble]

So you pressed that button "send to iOS" from Thread page. ?

[spring bramble]

You followed all tips about networking ?
So flat network, no mdns forwarders etc.

Also make sure that IPv6 is enabled on HAOS

[thorny needle]

Confirmed it is enabled.

[thorny needle]

I went to Settings > Devices > Thread > Configure > "Send credentials to phone"

[thorny needle]

I did this as well.

[spring bramble]

OK, I'm afraid we need to adjust our flow in the iOS app then if its still complaining about a border router. Hopefully we can enforce the flow to send the credentials.

[thorny needle]

I'm also doing this using my skyconnect as the thread router. I know there were issues with doing that last year but I assumed they were resolved based on my current searching.

[thorny needle]

Any reason why it would be failing on Android as well?

[spring bramble]

If you have setup Thread using our docs by setting up the OTBR it should work fine

[spring bramble]

No, but maybe something on your network is blocking it.

[thorny needle]

Okay. I'll check my network again

[tardy haven]

Heyo im currently using HA in a Docker on my Unraid Server.
Everything works like a Charm, Z2M and many other 3rd party Integrations/"External Systems" work perfectly fine, Except for one: Thread.
I've never used Thread or Matter until now, so this is unknown territory for me.

What i currently want to achieve: Control my MagRGB (Nanoleaf x Secret Lab) LEDs with HA. I've read that some guys have successfully done that with HA on a RaspberryPi + Thread Add-On.
I already have the Nanoleaf Lines which work as Thread Border Routers aswell.
The MagRGB is currently inside the Nanoleaf Line Thread Network.

My current Problem: I do have a Sonoff Dongle-E with OTBR (OpenThreadBorderRouter) flashed and integrated it into b2un0/silabs-multipan-docker.
In Home Assistant it shows up under the Thread Integration as a Seperate Thread Network next to my "Nanoleaf Lines Border Router". The Nanoleaf Lines BR was set as Preferred by Default.

But now what? I now have 2 Thread Border Routers but no way to control anything or "look" at any devices inside any Thread Network.
How do i continue from this point? 😄 I tried it with a dockerized matter-server that gets recognized from HA, but since the MagRGB doesnt have Matter Support that obviously didnt do anything either lol

[marble perch]

it looks like the magrgb is supposed to have homekit support. you could try adding it via home assistant's homekit device integration https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/homekit_controller

if you've already joined the device to thread via nanoleaf's app, then i would have expected home assistant to autodiscover it tho.

not sure exactly how that works

[tardy haven]

Hey, thanks for your response
The Homekit device integration weirdly only sees my Lines Lines 0854 (Lightbulb), but not my MagRGB...
Ive read somewhere to try it with "Works with google" in my Google Home App. You then have to login with your Nanoleaf account and it did actually see the device, but i wasnt able to control it through the Home App, Device was shown as Offline...

[marble perch]

i have no idea how that would work :/ might need you to have some google controller device in your network

anyways, you could try going through the homekit "through bluetooth" flow and see if that can configure it. Note that you might need to power off (unplug?) and re-power the device to get it to allow pairing.

[tardy haven]

The Lines function as a Thread Border Router and to that Network the MagRGB is connected via app. But in Home assistant I dont see any devices or anything in the Thread integration, just

NanoleafThread55
1 Border- Router
NL59
Lines-0854.local.

Do i need any more integrations to "view" or "handle" thread devices? Or would the Thread integration show/handle them just like it does with Zigbee?

[tardy haven]

Ill look into that thanks 🙂

[marble perch]

thread integration is mostly there for managing thread network credentials, it doesn't do anything with or show individual thread devices

since thread devices... are just devices on your ip network, really. they don't do anything without some other higher level protocol like matter or homekit or nanoleaf's proprietary protocol

[tardy haven]

Ah okay understood so basically each device is on their own more "dumb" than Zigbee devices. Alright since matter is not supported but homekit is i will try to get it working with that. Thanks for your time ❤️

[marble perch]

yeah - zigbee combines both the network protocol and application protocol into a single thing. with thread, they're separated, into e.g. thread for network + matter for application.

(and matter also works over other types of network, like wifi)

homekit works over either bluetooth or over thread.

[tardy haven]

Jesus christ i cannot belive it you actually pushed me 1 step further 😄
So after re-plugging my MagRGB HomeKit Device actually picked it up! But i cannot pair it

An unhandled error occurred while pairing with this device. This may be a temporary error or your device is not currently supported: No address information found for requests to 'fd95:9e66:dac4:1:4f5:bbae:1f63:7c12'

after re-entering the pairing code: still no success, but ill keep on trying/searching 😄

[marble perch]

hmm, so that would indicate a network routing issue. home assistant is seeing the mdns announcements from your thread border router, but is not receiving / applying the router announcements needed to route traffic to the thread devices.

this is something that HAOS is set up for, but iirc it can be a bunch more work on other distros :/

[tardy haven]

i was able to connect the lines via HomeKit with no problem, but the MagRGB just doesnt like that.
But i guess the Lines are getting connected diretly via WiFi and MagRGBs over WiFi -> Lines->Thread->MagRGB

[tardy haven]

wait if i remember correctly you have to have ipv6 connection for thread to work right?

[marble perch]

yeah. the lines (acting as a thread border router) will be sending out ipv6 router announcements. you need to make sure your wifi router isn't eating those, and that the system hosting ha is receiving them and applying them.

yes, you need ipv6

[tardy haven]

whoops i think my HA Docker Container only has an IPv4 address, ill check that 😄

[marble perch]

make sure that 'ip -6 route' on the host system is showing a route to fd95:9e66:dac4:1::/64 via some device.

[tardy haven]

alright that will be more than a couple of minutes of work, bascially my whole home network is ipv4-only lol
ill try to change that, ill keep you updated. Thanks again for your help this far

[twin vine]

do your end devices get any local link addresses?

or even ULA?

[marble perch]

when a thread border router is on a network that doesn't have an ipv6 prefix already, iirc it's supposed to announce a ULA prefix as on-link itself, so other devices get ipv6 addresses and can route to and from thread.

so it might be enough just to enable ipv6 on the machine hosting ha

[twin vine]

true, im just trying to rule out as many variables possible 😅

[tardy haven]

alright, IPv6 Enabled in my Router + Unraid and assigned an IPv6 to my HA Docker, that is pingable from my PC. Now im getting
[Errno 113] Host is unreachable (EHOSTUNREACH, received through errqueue) lol

[tardy haven]

what if there is no route to that ipv6 ? 😄

[little sigil]

im using espressif open thread border router. it's connected via ethernet, and the router is in the same room as the light. there are only 2 nodes in the thread network. the issue did seem to start after i moved things around in the room, but the thread router still has line of sight to the light so i don't know why :/

the light is a nanoleaf a19/e26

[marble perch]

If that route is missing, then your PC doesn't know what router to use to talk to thread devices

[tardy haven]

my PC can ping that IP, but my unraid server cant. Whadafuk.
Both have ipv6 Ips, are reachable through their ips and can ping each other. But one can ping fd95:9e66:dac4:1:: and one cant 😄

[spring bramble]

unraid (or any other NAS os) is NOT suitable for Matter and Thread.
If you have the chance, make sure to bypass the hosts networking stack and use either HAOS as VM on bridged network or when insisting on using containers, use macvlan

[tardy haven]

im already using macvlan for my dockers, but the target IP should be reachable from the host system (unraid) anyway right? cause at that level its just another PC just like my Windows PC, no virtualization or anything.
But even from the host (unraid) it cannot reach the IP fd95:9e66:dac4:1:4f5:bbae:1f63:7c12, it shows me From fd39:8d3d:dc71:1::1 icmp_seq=1 Destination unreachable: Address unreachable

But from my Windows PC: Antwort von fd95:9e66:dac4:1:4f5:bbae:1f63:7c12: Zeit=30ms

[spring bramble]

If you are using macvlan that is no longer needed, the Matter container will then have direct access to the network, bypassing the host network

I think you are going to have a hard time trying to get IPv6 NB discovery working on unraid

So to conclude this: you should try to docker exec into the running matter container and try the ping from there

[tardy haven]

Same result when trying to ping from inside the container 😄

well not samesame result, im getting ping: sendto: Address not available

[spring bramble]

I strongly suggest you to install home assistant OS on a spare pi or something like that and see if that works correctly. That way you can know if you can rule out your local networking.

Like I said before, NAS OS is not suitable for Matter/Thread - I figured that using a bridged network with macvlan would work but maybe that is still partially using the host network stack.

[tardy haven]

Ill try that, thanks.
I dont really like the idea of a permanent Pi Solution since i've had bad experiences with data loss / sd cards breaking. Running it as docker in a Redundant "Cache" Pool just feels better and more reliable 😄

[sick swan]

I can recommend a Yellow, which supports NVMe, quite reliable 😎

Anyhow, 💯 what Marcel says. HAOS is the painfree option here.

[sick swan]

That said, it does sounds like IPv6 RIO processing issue. You can find some hints here: https://github.com/home-assistant-libs/python-matter-server/?tab=readme-ov-file#requirements-to-communicate-with-thread-devices-through-thread-border-routers.

[spring bramble]

I was hinting at a test setup only so you can narrow down the issue a bit.
Your host OS (unraid or any other nas-oriented OS) is not suitable due to the stuff required in the link Stefan gave you. So by just temporary setting up some pi/pc/vm with HAOS (the recommended and officially supported way of running matter) you can check if that does work in your network. If hat also fails, you need to look in your networking gear.

[tardy haven]

Yeah i know that you meant a testing setup, i will try that tomorrow. Thank you guys for your help! I'll keep you updated ❤️

[modern root]

hrm latest sets of updates seem to have broken my OTBR, lemme try rebooting the whole VM. Reboot fixed it :iiam:

[shrewd egret]

When I press Provision Preferred Thread Credentials on an existing BLE device, it becomes 100% unavailable and doesn't ever reconnect. Any ideas of what I should look for? I've already joined Home Assistant to my preferred Thread Network and copied credentials from the Android HA companion app.

I have an ESPHome BT Proxy within 3 feet so it shouldn't be connectivity. The closest Thread Router is also like 2 feet away.

[magic girder]

I have still been struggling along with my ESP32-C6 devices and matter-over-thread, but finally have had some success. After a complete factory reset of my android phone, I was reliably able to commission ESP32 Matter over Wifi devices from either the Google Home app, or the HA Android app. I can also reliably commission Matter-Over-Thread devices from the HA Matter Web UI, however I was still not able to commission those devices from either Android apps.

I completed every check I could think of from the Android device to confirm it was able to communicate with OTBR. An mdns browser app on the Android device is able to see the meshcop service, and I could ping the OTBR ipv6 address from my phone. I even tried using a different, completely separate wifi AP for my phone, but this did not help.

Finally, as another test, I threw together an OpenWRT wifi AP on an old Raspberry Pi 3, to use as another test... and when connected to that my phone is now able to reliably commission matter-over-thread devices.

Something interesting... since I completed the factor reset of my Android device, the phone will now present an automatic popup as soon as I plug in a new matter-over-thread device. So the new device must be communicating with OTBR over thread before it's actually commissioned on the network.

So I'm happy that it's now working, however it also has me a little concerned for the project. I had tried to completely different and very common wifi routers from two different manufacturers, and they both somehow blocked some aspect of communication between my android phone and OTBR. I don't think it's an HA-specific issue, as I had also tried a completely separate OTBR install on a bare-metal Linux machine, and the issue persisted.

I does make me wonder how many people have the knowledge, resources and persistence to overcome that obstacle? I'd love to try and find out exactly what the issue is, however trying to debug matter/thread communication issues is incredibly difficult, as error messages are.... brief, usually giving messages that are not even easily identifiable as errors, and using numeric status codes that are very difficult to find in documentation.

I might try some packet analysis to see if I can find what is being blocked and where.

[marble perch]

the android popup when a new matter-over-thread device is detected is actually caused by BLE advertisements.

[vapid shell]

Without more information it’s hard to say much at all. I’d guess that you have vlans and an mdns repeater (which won’t work) or you aren’t using HAOS and so are missing vital ipv6 configuration. It’s not a Bluetooth problem, for sure. The change to thread mode only becomes permanent when a device is visible in mdns on thread. So the device has connected to a mesh and is advertising itself, and your network can see those packets. But connectivity between HA and your BR is not working. If you fix your network, the “unavailable” devices will come online without having to reset them.

[shrewd egret]

I am using HAOS, but I do have VLANs. I wouldn't really consider it a network issue, it's by design to keep IoT devices isolated from my home network.

However, Home Assistant and the Thread Router are on the same VLAN. Does this still not work even if they are on the same one?

(I've had mDNS issues before with Chromecast devices and had to turn on cross-VLAN mDNS because of it, and it's still very janky, so it wouldn't surprise me)

[vapid shell]

It’s a requirement for them to be on a flat network. Mdns repeaters can break it. Various “enterprise” prosumer features also break it.

[shrewd egret]

Very frustrating, but I appreciate the clarification. Sounds like I'll have to keep it on BLE for now. This is my first Thread device so not something I've bumped into before.

[vapid shell]

For matter, your phone, ha and all BRs need to be on the same vlan. For homekit, your phone at least doesn’t have to be.

[shrewd egret]

I assume Matter devices would probably have the same issue and it's something I should look out for?

Yeah, my phone is on my main network and Google Home was able to transfer credentials to HA on another network and do everything else with Thread, so that tracks.

[vapid shell]

You have a thread issue, so it would apply to homekit, matter, even if you made an esp32 device and tried to ping it over thread you’d have the same problem

[shrewd egret]

Just double-checked, and it looks like I have HA on my main VLAN and not the IoT one actually... so if I moved it to the IoT VLAN, this should fix it?

[vapid shell]

In theory

Of course you can have multiple problems

[shrewd egret]

I'll have to see how feasible it is to even move my HA over. I reverse proxy my HA using a webserver that runs on my main network for Google Assistant commands to work.

Might break even more of my stuff to have it on the IoT VLAN, but I'll look into it.

Thanks!

[spring bramble]

Unfortunately even a bad igmp/mld snooping implementation on a network switch, router or access points can cause the traffic to be misformed. I know that several networking brands had to make patches. For example The TP-Link deco series was completely broken with matter (over thread) and they fixed it in recent software updates. Maybe good to list your network gear brand/model here to see if others have issues with it too ? Maybe a far stretch but did you also try another switch between your HA host and the rest of your network ? Or check your WiFi access points if they have any form of multicast "optimizing" enabled ?

[magic girder]

The main wifi system I was using was the Orbi system from Netgear. Not a great system unfortunately. I had their primary wifi router and 4 of their satellite access points, connected via ethernet. The main device is configured by default as a router. Obviously that breaks all connectivity between your wifi and your ethernet networks. So I switched it to "access point" mode, but doing that then breaks a bunch of the functionality of the Orbi system. Management becomes very unreliable. And there are zero config options for anything to do with ipv6, mdns, multicast, igmp etc.

I also tried an old Fritzbox I had, and that had the same issues. The OpenWRT setup worked immediately though.

Today I replaced the entire Orbi system with a bunch of Ubiquiti ap's, and once I disabled the multicast filtering and enabled their iot auto-discovery, which is easy to do in their management system, everything now works perfectly. I believe Ubiquiti have been making considerable efforts in this area and it seems to have paid off, as getting everything to work was really easy.

As a note I have kept the network completely "flat" for now. No vlans or any other isolation. It would be nice to find a way to isolate the iot network in the future, but for now I'm just happy I can so easily commission devices, and I can get back to the device firmware development.

[spring bramble]

One popular way is to add HA/Matter to the same IoT network

[magic girder]

Oh ok that's an idea. Thanks. I'll try that next time I'm experimenting 🙂

[feral horizon]

Is there any PoE powered border router for Thread?

I found this one, but is this the only one?
https://store.gl-inet.com/collections/all-products/products/gl-s20-iot-gateway-thread-border-router

just found one more
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CWLHSKYC/

[ionic plaza]

Aqara m3🤣 but it’s overkill

Oh you got it

[feral horizon]

I would like one that let me use with Home Assistant though, not sure if the aqara one can do raw thread/matter communication

like, one that let me have home assistant communicate with the end devices directly

new to thread/matter, not sure how this works

[ionic plaza]

Not a good option if you will only have one tbr at home

[feral horizon]

what would be a better option?

[ionic plaza]

Do you have any home hub like HomePod mini? Or you only use HA

[feral horizon]

HA only

no homepod

I prefer open source stuff when it comes to home automation/IoT

as long as it can be integrated with Home Assistant with internet completely disconnected, then it should be fine

[ionic plaza]

Skyconnect / sonoff dongle e would work with OTBR addon in HA

[feral horizon]

my Home Assistant is a VM in a server in an enclosed space with a metal rack that essentially formed a faraday cage, so if possible I would prefer some PoE based solution, or at least, ethernet based so I don't have to pull a long USB extension cord into my server rack

if I have a USB passthrough, I can't do failover between my VM cluster

[ionic plaza]

Esp32 OTBR kit + Ethernet cap, but you need to build firmware by official guide

[feral horizon]

hmm, is this essentially the GL-S20 I was looking at? seems like it uses esp32 cores

it is built on Thread 1.3 & FreeRTOS

[ionic plaza]

Not exactly, GL has OpenWRT I think?

[feral horizon]

this is not their wi-fi router though, thread only

with wi-fi as upstream I think

and most importantly, PoE

[ionic plaza]

Or you have other edge devices like NAS? A dongle + Docker would be enough for an otbr instance

[feral horizon]

everything I have is in that rack

might be worth it, it even public the GPIO list https://docs.gl-inet.com/iot/en/thread_board_router/gl-s20/hardware/

[ionic plaza]

Never tried devices from this brand, their thread offerings are not available in my region 🫣

[feral horizon]

hmm

looks very simple esp32 + thread RF module + PoE module

https://static.gl-inet.com/docs/iot/en/thread_board_router/gl-s20/hardware/gl-s20_pinout_1.jpg

[ionic plaza]

lol I am withdrawing my line, they are the same

That looks basically a variation of ESP32 S3 - H2 board with a poe accessory

[feral horizon]

so this is literally the thread otbr kit assembled?

[ionic plaza]

Yes

[feral horizon]

hmm, then should be good?

[ionic plaza]

I have one and can confirm it works with HA, but I can not guarantee the stability cuz I already have too many tbr in the network

[feral horizon]

heh

how many

how does it work?

[ionic plaza]

10 maybe

I am a collector

[feral horizon]

like, it is just a bridge between the thread network IPv6 and the normal ethernet IPv6?

[ionic plaza]

Yea

[feral horizon]

so need to use the UART to flash it?

wait, there is 2 ESP32 on the board? 🤔

yup 2 uart as well

wait, can this be flashed so it work as a zigbee coordinator?

[ionic plaza]

There’s a guide on OpenThread website, I’m no embed dev so can not help much on details

[feral horizon]

hmm https://community.home-assistant.io/t/esp32-h2-esp32-c6-with-zigbee-ncp-firmware-will-soon-be-usable-as-remote-zigbee-coordinator-for-the-zha-integration-via-new-radio-library-for-zigpy/685638

I wonder if it is already in release build 🤔

[tardy haven]

Heyo, so I finally had the time to test the rpi HA. Worked instantly. MagRGB got detected and connected without any problems...

[feral horizon]

Is there any good Thread Matter sensor or devices?
I see there is this Meross smart plug but I see quite many negative comments about this one, https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B09WVCXZ2C/

On the other hand, the eve energy has a lot of positive comment but the price is just so high for a single plug unit

I also see a Aqara P2 motion sensor but compare to the zigbee Aqara P1, the price is also higher

I want to find a reason to switch to Thread Matter but everything seems to say no to me

except the fact that the protocol is just better, and the future way of doing thing

[tardy haven]

With a lot of wiggling around it is now fully working with HA in a VM over the Apple HK Integration!
Thanks a LOT to everyone that helped! ❤️

[faint siren]

As someone who isn't knowledgeable at all in this stuff and going off feel, I don't think Thread is better than Zigbee in any way right now.

But it's the new hotness right now. So we're paying a premium just because it's new, not because it's better.

[polar thunder]

Matter+Thread has a lot of great things going for it that are more or less not applicable for Home Assistant users.

The killer feature of Matter is that a device will work out of the box, locally, with every major home automation software vendor

But HA is just plainly not a major home automation software product, and it already is used to bridge devices to other software stacks, so much of the usefulness is kinda lost on those who would use HA

All that said i think even for HA users Matter+Thread is an objective good. It's pushing a lot of vendors to stop shipping products that require their own proprietary and server-based control platforms.
People around here keep forgetting that Apple drives a large amount of consumer spending in the US market and that you can talk up Zigbee til the cows come home but most people do not give a shit because Zigbee does not work on Apple Home. Matter + Thread does. That alone is going to drive customer interest back into products that work easily and won't turn off after the vendor turns off the server in five years.

We could easily be living in a completely different timeline where Apple took their HomeKit ball and went home leaving everyone else to fend for themselves. We aren't. Thank god we're not.

Believe it or not Matter is already here. Phillips will sell you Matter+Wifi bulbs that are a third of the price of their Hue-based bulbs. GE will sell you Matter+Wifi bulbs. I started down my personal home automation journey with cheapo Matter+Wifi light switches from TP-Link. Apple Home and Google Home users are going to drive the demand for decent, cheap home automation devices that are still locally managed, secure, and lasting and instead of being like some people on this server and dismiss the entire affair because they already took the painful path of rigging their house up with Zigbee/Z-wave/ESPHome devices we should be celebrating that finally there's a platform that shares the ideals of Home Assistant while being instantly compatible with the devices laymen already use

All that said, no you should not be out hunting for devices looking for an excuse to start using Matter/Thread. If there's a device you need that happens to use Matter/Thread then buy it. No good buying shit you don't need or want just because you are trying to understand some hype cycle.

[feral horizon]

If there's a device you need that happens to use Matter/Thread then buy it
Well, for thread there is a eve energy smart plug that costs £39.95 each(if there are better place to buy them from, please let me know). But for Zigbee, there is a Tuya smart plug that costs as little as £6 each or a Aurora AOne zigbee plug for £19.99 on amazon. I found nothing else. I want something better than the Tuya smart plug but there are nothing.
I think nanoleaf bulbs are the only good Thread Matter device I found that has similar price point when comparing with Zigbee product. However I have no experience with Nanoleaf. How good are they when comparing with Philips Hue? to be specific, the RGBW model.
No good buying shit you don't need or want just because you are trying to understand some hype cycle.
No, I am not looking into this because of hype. I am looking into this because it is simply better IMO. It supports IPv6. It uses minimal power.

[feral horizon]

well, Matter over Wifi has no meaning to me. What I want is Matter + Thread, without Thread, there is no meaning since it won't be a mesh network. Matter + Thread is good because it

• is a mesh network
• supports IP protocol, i.e. IPv6
• uses little power

while zigbee is a good protocol, it don't support IP protocol

[polar thunder]

IPv6 is just a means to an end. It is neither a disadvantage or an advantage. Also at the moment the Thread stack tends to use more power on battery devices compared to Zigbee. You gotta step back away from the hype.

As soon as you're saying stuff like "it is simply better" and rattle off technologies Thread uses to accomplish its goals instead of listing any actual advantage the protocol has over other options you've gotten lost in the sauce. Pull back.

[feral horizon]

Thread supports multiple border gateway. Zigbee do not

better latency https://preview.redd.it/a8ijet52ho471.jpg?width=1814&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=84b00bfe1447303242fbdd76ed981b32f4ab37d9

[polar thunder]

I don't think having multiple border routers is the killer feature you think it is.

[feral horizon]

why not? then it can failover

[polar thunder]

Especially in our current mess where none of the major vendors will share Thread credentials with each other

[feral horizon]

openthread?

[ionic plaza]

actually, Nest would join Apple. Alexa and ST do not; OpenThread is another story

[polar thunder]

I can't even get two apple tbrs to talk to each other

[ionic plaza]

This mess is hopefully to be solved when Thread 1.4 comes

[feral horizon]

heh new version

any roadmap?

[ionic plaza]

there's a blog on Thread Group webpage

[polar thunder]

Anyways my advice remains the same. Buy devices as you find the need for them in your daily life. Don't buy devices for the sake of buying devices.

And right now to be real with you most thread devices are kinda expensive as vendors have to kick the tires on new firmware and chipsets

And the cheap stuff kinda suck, as it usually goes with most cheap stuff

[feral horizon]

any experience with the nanoleaf bulbs?

[polar thunder]

I bought some cheapo thread smart plugs but they turned out to not be routing end devices and i returned them eventually because what the hell is the point of a mains powered thread device if it's not going to contribute to the mesh

Nanoleaf is what comes to mind when i think of thread teething issues

[feral horizon]

teething issue?

[polar thunder]

Just search nanoleaf in this channel and you'll come across an year+ of bitching about them as they struggled to get stable firmware to the finish line

[feral horizon]

I am not famillar with Thread+Matter, but could it be their gateway?

I plan to use open source gateway if that matters

[ionic plaza]

there’s no such concept of gateway in Thread and Matter I think

[feral horizon]

right, I meant the border router

[polar thunder]

It doesn't matter and i would say OTBR offers the most headaches at the moment

[feral horizon]

sorry but could you elaborate what headaches?

[polar thunder]

I bought a skyconnect and gave up trying to get otbr working in a container. I flashed zigbee firmware on it and i just use a roommate's homepod as the household tbr

[feral horizon]

I am planning to use ESP32 tbr

[polar thunder]

Anyways from what i remember nanoleaf products would crash on heavy loads whether it was routing too many other devices or it was overwhelmed by multi-admin tasks

I think the latest firmware has gotten things stable but it took a hot minute

[feral horizon]

now THAT is an actual problem

does it just restart or hang?

[polar thunder]

It would affect the rest of the thread network as any other end device that attempted to route through it would have any commands disappear into the maw

[feral horizon]

huh I thought Thread is a mesh network? Won't it route through other device when the nanoleaf bulb crashes?

[polar thunder]

Again, all report suggests things are ok now but this used to be 80% of the content of this channel

[feral horizon]

guess the only way to find out is to buy some?

I see a 49 usd pack of 3 bulb

[ionic plaza]

NL's better now, but still would go offline from time to time.

I avoid using multi-admin now to reduce the load

[feral horizon]

hmm, is this possible currently? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bh-kg3fVbf8&t=7m42s

[undone cedar]

I'm faiting with the same issue

[undone cedar]

I meant this one

How far are you ? I'm still not able to even start otbr container 😭

[polar thunder]

As i said, i gave up!

[undone cedar]

Aug 1 15:29:51 AndrNas rsyslogd: [origin software="rsyslogd" swVersion="8.32.0" x-pid="98" x-info="http://www.rsyslog.com"] start
Aug 1 15:29:52 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:53.834 [W] P-SpinelDrive-: Wait for response timeout
Aug 1 15:29:52 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:53.834 [I] P-SpinelDrive-: co-processor self reset successfully
Aug 1 15:29:52 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:53.834 [D] P-SpinelDrive-: Sent spinel frame, flg:0x2, iid:0, tid:1, cmd:PROP_VALUE_GET, key:PROTOCOL_VERSION
Aug 1 15:29:52 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:53.834 [D] P-SpinelDrive-: Waiting response: key=1
Aug 1 15:29:54 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:55.837 [W] P-SpinelDrive-: Wait for response timeout
Aug 1 15:29:54 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:55.837 [D] P-SpinelDrive-: Sent spinel frame, flg:0x2, iid:0, tid:1, cmd:PROP_VALUE_GET, key:PROTOCOL_VERSION
Aug 1 15:29:54 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:55.837 [D] P-SpinelDrive-: Waiting response: key=1
Aug 1 15:29:56 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:57.839 [W] P-SpinelDrive-: Wait for response timeout
Aug 1 15:29:56 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:57.839 [C] Platform------: Init() at spinel_driver.cpp:82: Failure
Aug 1 15:29:56 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:57.839 [D] P-SpinelDrive-: Sent spinel frame, flg:0x2, iid:0, tid:1, cmd:PROP_VALUE_GET, key:PROTOCOL_VERSION
Aug 1 15:29:56 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:57.839 [D] P-SpinelDrive-: Waiting response: key=1
Aug 1 15:29:58 AndrNas otbr-agent[199]: 59d.21:31:59.841 [W] P-SpinelDrive-: Wait for response timeout

I see such kind of error, and have no qlue how to proceed with it

[upbeat cairn]

Sounds like OTBR can't communicate with the radio, nothing is coming back over the serial connection. What stick and firmware are you using? Is your baudrate and serial config correct?

[somber isle]

Hey! I have a thread network consisting of the Connect, and then I have 10 Nanoleaf GU10 bulbs, and one EVE smart plug plus 3 battery connected devices. For about 4 of the Nanoleafs I struggle with Thread coverage. How can I check how they connect to the network? Would the network recalculate or could I force recalc to get new links somehow? Do I need to delete the struggling devices and re-add them?

[little swift]

Hi everyone, I'm trying to get Matter via Thread to work. I have a Synology DS223 on DSM 7.2.1-69057 Update 5 running Home Assistant in a Docker as well as a Matter Server (both from ghcr) and connected a SkyConnect USB-Stick. I can add Zigbee support in HA successfully but when I try to switch to Thread it does not work, I get the following message:
"thread:The OpenThread Border Router addon can only be installed with Home Assistant OS. If you would like to use the Home Assistant SkyConnect as an Thread border router, please flash the firmware manually using the web flasher and set up OpenThread Border Router to communicate with it."
I have flashed the firmware via their homepage multiple times and confirmed that is available after reconnecting the stick but I still get this message inside HA. I get a similar behaviour if I use the multi protocol firmware (just a test). What do I need to do to get a OpenThread Border Router running? I tried to manually install it but fail at the question regarding the API url, searching for that I end up at "no manual installation required".
Any help is appreciated, please let me know if more information is required from my side.
Thanks, Patrick

[somber isle]

From the error message I would think you have to set up OTBR standalone, and not as a HA addon.

[twin vine]

yeah, NAS kernals are not the best, there is a pinned message here about it, are you able to run it in a VM and use the add-on?

[somber isle]

Just an update on my issue. I tried to change channels and stuff, but in the end I just had to rework my whole setup. Finally I got them all on Thread and they work well. My Thread network is tightly knitted and the Mesh looks really strong. But anyone else notice the lights being slow to control? If I compare Z2m to Matter bulbs over Thread, the Thread ones are very slow in comparison.

[faint siren]

I only have 2 thread devices, a plug and a smart lock. The Plug is mostly instant, but there have been times when I tested it and there was noticeable delay.

The lock is a weird one. It's the U200 and most of the time it takes 1.5-2.5 seconds to unlock and under a second to lock. Which admittedly I found disappointing.

Coming from the Switchbot Lock Pro which is BT, I thought the U200 being thread would mean that it would almost always be a second or less at least.

[somber isle]

Yeah I have set up a light group with many lights of both Zigbee and Matter/Thread. All of the Zigbees are almost instant off/on but have to wait for the Thread ones. There is a substantial delay.

[little swift]

unfortunately not 😦 - the hardware is to weak

[little swift]

I tried openthread/otbr:latest, the container starts but from the log I can see
sudo: modprobe : command not found
followed later by
ip6tables v1.6.1: couldn't load target `OTBR_FORWARD_INGRESS': no such file and directory.
I can run
modprobe ip6table_filter
via ssh (no output and no error)

[half bluff]

Welcome to the club

[somber isle]

So... We will wait for the protocol to improve

[faint siren]

Can't wait for thread to be amazing in 2028 😔

[celest solstice]

Hi there, I have a Sonoff P Stick. Everything works fine. To use thread in bought a E Stick.
After installing thread and matter (and silicon laps app). I updated the stick with thread solo, not the multi protocol.
Is doesn't work yet.
I need a hint what's maybe wrong. Or if it is a bad idea to do such a setup at all.

[deft mural]

I had to reset my HA and setup the work around to make the SkyConnect a thread border router. It my HA app shows 3 routers and I'm not able to any matter over thread to my system. Any Ideas?

[twin vine]

and silicon laps app?

so you only have the OTBR add-on and Matter-server add-on running?

not the multiprotocol add-on?

[celest solstice]

OBTR ist only shown in devices, not in add ons. In add ons, it is only silicon labs

[twin vine]

what add-on?

Silicon Labs Multiprotocol? Silicon Labs Flasher?

[sick swan]

What method/device do you use to onboard (Android/iOS)? What is the error message?

[sick swan]

Interesting, I observed the reverse a couple of weeks ago. I got two motion sensors (Aqara) one with Thread, one with Zigbee. Two Light bulbs, one with Thread (Nanoleaf) one with Zigbee (OSRAM). I tested the end-to-end latency, and the Thread/Matter combination was noticeable quicker. 🤷‍♂️

There are quite some factors which could influence performance along the way. Radio and how busy it is is probably the biggest contributor here. If Thread needs to retry sending multiple times because it's channel is busy, and Zigbee not, it will contribute noticable for sure.

This is all very unscientific/rough testing of course 😅 🙈

[somber isle]

I will test some more. Was also thinking about IPv6 if that could be an issue. And when everything else fails then it is probably DNS. 🤷

[deft mural]

Using IOS. It tells me that it failed to add the device to my HA. And that I might have to restart the devices. I’m tried restarting HA and the Nanoleaf GU10 bulbs

[deft mural]

Used this: https://gist.github.com/bmight/49315bbb004871d66445b1588cd1d82e

[sick swan]

This should not be required anymore, the Thread config panel allows to transfer credentials to iOS as well

[sick swan]

Hm, can you share the exact error message? Is the message more an iOS error or more from HA frontend (style wise). If it is the latter, can you check the Matter Server add-on logs?

[deft mural]

Can I DM you some of the pictures?

[hasty prism]

Multiple SkyConnect/OTBR instances on same Thread net? I have two (well, more, but two are relevant) HA instances, running on hardware. Both have SkyConnect working. I have installed OTBR on both machines and I believe they're on the same Thread net, but all the Thread devices appear on one instance, not both. My intent is to improve a coverage problem I have by using two SkyConnect for the Home Assistant Thread net. Is the devices appearing only on one node expected? Is there a better way to get some radio diversity than what I'm trying to set up?

[marble perch]

as long as both otbr instances are configured with the same dataset, they are part of the same network. what are you using to see the devices? otbr web ui?

the matter or homekit devices connected to one ha won't show up on the other ha, of course. thread border router is a lower level network thing.

[finite adder]

Hello, I'm developing a Matter firmware for device and I'm using OTBR with Home Assistant. Given all my tests I now have 3 thread networks in my iPhone Keychain, so it would be useful to have these two features in the Settings -> Companion App -> Debugging -> Thread view:

• a button, near "Transfer to Home Assistant" to delete the credentials (https://developer.apple.com/documentation/threadnetwork/thclient/deletecredentials(forborderagent:completion:)).
• an icon to show which is currently the preferred network of the iPhone, since I had to re-import that into Home Assistant and set it as primary in order to add Matter devices without errors.

I read that others get the error "Thread border router required" even after importing the credentials of Home Assistant OTBR on iOS, I solved this by re-importing the credentials of the first network that was imported on the iPhone. How to understand which is the preferred network on the iPhone? I wrote a small app in Swift that using the API https://developer.apple.com/documentation/threadnetwork/thclient/retrievepreferredcredentials(_:) showed it to me.

[faint siren]

Anyone lost some but not all functionality before with Thread devices? This morning I lost the ability to control my Aqara U200.

I was unable to lock or unlock it. But when I manually turned the knob, the status was still updated inside Home Assistant.

I was getting this error message and maybe I should have wrote it down. But I just quickly unplugged my TBR to see if it would fix it. It took maybe half an hour, but eventually it was back to normal.

[ionic plaza]

is there a demo to try? I had the same error

[finite adder]

demo of what? of the iOS app to recover the preferred network?

[ionic plaza]

select or remove preferred thread networks

[finite adder]

As mentioned, I simply wrote a dummy app in Swift to log the name of the preferred network. Then, from the Home Assistant app, I re-imported it into HA (Settings -> Companion App -> Debugging -> Thread). After doing this, in the Thread device configuration in HA, you'll find the network you just imported. There's an option to have OTBR join this network, making it the preferred network in HA.

For some reasons I couldn't delete the other networks on iOS from my dummy app, a button to do this should be added directly in the Home Assistant app.

But after following the steps mentioned above, I can use Matter and have my test devices join.

Are you using the Home Assistant app downloaded from the app store?

I’m asking this because if you use the beta app downloaded from TestFlight, it doesn’t work.

i don't think so

so you are talking about the "send credentials to phone" button inside the thread device configuration in HA?

maybe you can try "reset border router" option

😦

i think this is the code that imports the credentials inside the keychain: https://github.com/home-assistant/iOS/blob/master/Sources/App/Thread/CredentialsSharing/ToAppleKeychain/ThreadCredentialsSharingToKeychainViewModel.swift

nono, i'm using a fully open source thread stack and it's working

OTBR firmware flashed in an nrf usb dongle, created the network with the home assistant addons

what device are you using to make the thread network?

HA yellow, HA connect?

not for now

we have to use iOS or Android

for sure in the future

just for info, i'm using https://www.nordicsemi.com/Products/Development-hardware/nrf52840-dongle with https://github.com/nrfconnect/sdk-nrf/tree/main/samples/openthread/coprocessor firmware flashed

then i just installed OpenThread Border Router addon in HA, selected the device in the configuration, and the OTBR part it's done

for Matter, i installed Matter addon without any custom configuration

default settings, just clicked "install"

then in "Devices and services" HA view i have OTBR, Thread with the preferred network configured and Matter with the paired devices

https://imgur.com/3S9oG2s

yes

it tells you this because the iphone doesn't have the thread network credentials in the keychain

due to the error when you click the import to keychain button

https://imgur.com/a/jDfFEzh

just to clarify i'm talking about the "send credentials to phone" button

i agree

I really spent a lot of hours on it

just to be able to pair a test device

matter it's really complicated compared to zigbee

for example, you are required to use C++ to write the firmware, which can already be a blocker for many companies and developers. you have to import a large library into your project (https://github.com/project-chip/connectedhomeip) compared to using C macros of zboss API for Zigbee

i think these things are some of the reasons for the slow adoption of Matter on many devices

yeah if you have an apple border router you have to send the credentials from the iphone to HA

[ionic plaza]

Will Embedded Swift make this any easier?

I saw a demo about Matter and ESP C6 using Swift

[peak ocean]

So my skyconnect dongle seems to die a lot or drop off the thread network each time it's updated, is this normal?

[finite adder]

i don't now, never used swift to write firmwares

[peak ocean]

and is there a section I'm supposed to look at for the logs for the skyconnect?

[finite adder]

i prefer to use zephyr with C / C++

[ionic plaza]

I barely know embedded programming and no idea where to start🤦 Compiling firmware for esp32 was a painful experience

[hasty prism]

Ok, that's what's going on. I had a hope they'd show up on both, but that's what Remote is for. 🙂

[somber isle]

Last update fixed the slowness for me. Now matter / thread devices respond almost as fast as Zigbee2mqtt

[unborn thorn]

Do we have any docs for Thread battery usage vs for example Zigbee?

[oblique ether]

Anyone knows how to make an Amazon Echo and Smartthings border router part of your preferred network? I succeded to have the OpenThread Border Router on the same network as my AppleTV.

[shrewd egret]

Just checking this again, apologies. I use the Unifi Ubiquiti series, Small Business equipment. Specifically the Unifi Dream Machine Pro. I'm back because I moved all my border routers and HA to the same VLAN and I still can't convert this Bluetooth device to thread. Just becomes unavailable and never comes back.

Searching this channel, looks like Unifi stuff commonly has Multicast "optimizations" enabled by default, so I'll check that.

EDIT: Don't see anything enabled related to Multicast except for "IGMP Snooping." Is this a problem? It doesn't seem to help to disable it.

[vapid shell]

If you go into the thread integration and click on configure you should see all you border routers. You should also see a … menu with a download diagnostics option. Download that.

(Think you need to do from a real web browser, at least it doesn’t work in the iOS app)

Send us that file. If you think it contains anything sensitive you can DM me.

[worn plinth]

suddenly otbr is failing... have tried restarting, rolling back to 2.9.0. no joy so far. any known bugs on 2024.8 with this? nothing changed, it just went dead last night - maybe my actual radio died?

[shrewd egret]

I moved it back to Bluetooth for now because I was so frustrated. Before I move it back, is there actually an advantage, from a connectivity standpoint, of it being on Thread instead of Bluetooth? Does it still use the Bluetooth chip, just a different protocol? The device's connectivity even through my BT Proxy already seems to be pretty rough.

[vapid shell]

Remind me what device this is

Also you can still do this test even if you have no devices - it’s tested the connection between HA and BRs, not anything to do with the device

Thread is in theory far better than Bluetooth for IoT. Expecting lower latency and strong connections (assuming you have a mesh, and not just one device). Certainly when ICD is mature battery life should be pretty damn good too.

[shrewd egret]

It's a SecretLab LED Light strip. They're actually made by Nanoleaf though, so I guess it's closest to their Nanoleaf Essentials line?

[vapid shell]

Then thread should be way better

Bluetooth is crap for interactive stuff

[shrewd egret]

In that case... let me grab that file for you.

Yeah, if I bind it to the Nanoleaf app instead, it's instant, fast, works great. Pretty sure that's using Thread though.

[vapid shell]

Thread pretty much removes the initial connection overhead

[shrewd egret]

I wish, since the closest router is literally my Nanoleaf Shapes... that it would just show Thread-connected devices in Home Assistant without having to bind it to Home Assistant.

[vapid shell]

And because Bluetooth aggressively disconnects you take that pain all the time

[shrewd egret]

The HA preferred network is the one controlled by my Nest Hub devices. Do Thread devices always require being controlled with HA being the main controller?

[vapid shell]

I have a nanoleaf essentials homekit light strip and a matter version btw

Both work flawlessly with HA

[shrewd egret]

This one is apparently just Thread. No Matter logo on the device.

[vapid shell]

Well like I say, I have both

They both work

And I have Unifi switches and WiFi

My USG died a while back

Thread feels better for it

But it did work before

If I remember rightly yours is transitioning from Bluetooth to thread, and goes unavailable. That means that it is connecting to your BR. And it’s likely a connectivity issue between HA and your BRs.

[shrewd egret]

Most likely. My BT Proxy's connectivity is not great, but if I move it, it ruins the connectivity between it and the LED strip.

Looks okay at the moment. -78 dBm to the wifi.

[vapid shell]

The fact that your phone works means the probably is more likely with HA networking or something

[shrewd egret]

I don't see anything sensitive in this thread diag JSON so I'll upload it here.

[vapid shell]

Is it bare metal or vm? Iirc some VM hypervisors mess up the ipv6 stuff

[shrewd egret]

It's running on a Pi using HaOS.

Can't upload files here.

[vapid shell]

And connected via Ethernet?

[shrewd egret]

Will DM it I guess.

Yep, using a PoE hat on the Pi.

[vapid shell]

What BRs did you have?

[shrewd egret]

ESP-WROOM-32

[vapid shell]

Ah ok

I don’t have any experience with those

[shrewd egret]

Good reviews on them, and my other one in the living room seems to work great.

Can also give that diag file if it helps.

[vapid shell]

Iirc they don’t have TREL

So if you don’t have great thread connectivity between each BR you get mesh splits

[shrewd egret]

I have 2 BRs within 4 feet of the BT Proxy.

Sorry, I thought you were saying BT Proxy not BR.

I have a Nest Hub and a Nanoleaf Shapes within 4 feet of the strip.

https://tinypic.host/image/image.DFcxkk

When I add the LED strip to the Nanoleaf app, it immediately identifies it, and the eixsting Thread network, and then adds it, and everything works flawlessly. The issue is only when I try to get it added in HA.

Even getting it added to HA via Bluetooth takes like 5 full minutes. It's so slow.

[vapid shell]

the first file you sent me, yeah HA can't see any border routers at all. did you get that from the screen where it shows the border routers and their vendor logos?

there was a bug that didn't show the full data if you got it from the wrong place

[shrewd egret]

Nah I grabbed that from the 3 dots next to Configure.

I'm guessing I grabbed it from the right place last night. Let me grab it from the right screen again.

Sent.

[vapid shell]

you have 3 BR's on the google thread network

was only expecting 2

[shrewd egret]

Yep!

There's a Nest Hub Max, a Nest Hub (closest to the strip), and a Nanoleaf Shapes (2 feet to the strip).

I do not use the Nanoleaf Shapes over Thread right now, I use it over Wifi. Works fine.

[vapid shell]

Is the 3rd one far away

[shrewd egret]

It would not surprise me if this LED strip is just not high-quality either. Reddit has a lot of complaints about it.

The Nest Hub Max is... probably 30 feet, yeah, through several walls.

[vapid shell]

Turn it off

[shrewd egret]

It's on the same network, granted, but it's not close.

Ok, can go unplug it.

I need to re-add the strip via Bluetooth before I do anything, which is so painful. It takes so long.

Trying to get it re-added, bu now it's under Homekit listed twice and it won't let me remove either instance. -_-

EDIT: Had to disable them first, then it let me. Fun. Anyway, re-pairing again...

@vapid shell Anything you want me to grab (diag wise) before I try to transition it to Thread again? The far away BR is off.

That was the issue, apparently. Sort of frustrating that a far away Thread device could cause so many issues, but... Alas, Thread Status: Child. We're good. 🙂

Thanks for your help!

WHOA it's crazy fast now, love it.

[vapid shell]

That was i was trying to say about TREL

In effect you had 2 complete seperate thread networks

And Linux has no idea which to route to

[shrewd egret]

But they're all joined to the same network? Google Nest devices automatically join the same one, and the SmartThings device I have (which I'm trying to decommission, just moving things over) I don't use for Thread, although HA does see it.

[vapid shell]

No

[shrewd egret]

Even if they're connected to the same "logical" thread network, do they create separate ones? I guess that's the question.

[vapid shell]

If i made a thread network here

With the same key

And same name

[shrewd egret]

Ah, okay yeah I follow.

[vapid shell]

Would it be the same network

[shrewd egret]

Thread is so new, I have very few Thread routers.

So there's a lot of distance between them, unlike my Zigbee/Zwave stuff.

[vapid shell]

Yeah

I’m the same

[shrewd egret]

Based on this experience, Idk if I'll rush out to get more Thread stuff, heh.

Zigbee/Zwave has been pretty good to me, but... I like the promise of Matter in general.

I try to avoid wifi devices for the issues they have, but also can't avoid them entirely.

[faint siren]

My Thread plug says it's a "Routing End Device". Does that mean it's a router/repeater like Zigbee plugs?

[vapid shell]

Yeah, homekit over thread is pretty EOL. Don’t think those essentials lights got the fixes that the matter version of the line up did. And some of the chip manufacturers are still fixing bugs in their own matter sdks.

[shrewd egret]

I believe it would have to say "Router Eligible End Device" to be considered a repeater, and Routing End Device means it's just an end point.

[vapid shell]

It's in the docs - https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/matter/

Routing end device: End device that always keeps its radio on and can route traffic for other, routing and non-routing end devices.

[faint siren]

I see that my U200 is a sleepy end device now. But even when it's woken up it doesn't always respond very fast.

It kind of takes the pleasure out of it because I was hoping for near instant response. But instead I often wait 2-3 seconds for it to unlock.

[twin vine]

mine takes a few secs to update as like it only actually updates the entity when the lock is unlocked and vise versa

[faint siren]

The U200? Yeah I noticed that it won't update the status until a second after it has beenfully unlocked.

My Switchbot Lock Pro is much faster after it has been woken up, most of the time.

On the other hand it's more inconsistent when unlocking. It could be 2 seconds, it could be 5.

[spring bramble]

What is wrong with 2-3 seconds considering this is a sleepy device?

[faint siren]

I don't think it's bad but I just really wanted it to be as close to instant as possible.

That moment of pause before it works just hurts it a bit for me because I love how instant everything else works.

[feral horizon]

Can this be used for the BLE with bluetooth proxy for adding thread/matter device into the Home Assistant thread network?

[marble perch]

I don't believe the matter provisioning will support Bluetooth proxies. Best bet is to provision using a mobile device that's in Bluetooth range.

[feral horizon]

Is using a laptop possible?

My phone runs graphene os which seems to be not compatible with matter provisioning process due to the sandboxed Google play service

[marble perch]

Yeah, the actual matter stack that performs the provisioning is implemented in Google Play services.

[feral horizon]

Right, so using my phone isn't possible. (It just says matter is temporarily unavailable). Is it possible to use my laptop?

[marble perch]

Technically possible using matter development/testing tools, I think, but it would be pretty difficult.

[feral horizon]

What about an android emulator in android studio?

Wait that doesn't seems to support real hardware Bluetooth

🤦

Is there any alternative?

[upbeat cairn]

You can use a Bluetooth stick with your HA box to commission devices (near your HA box)

[marble perch]

IIRC the issue is the matter SDK needs to talk to the Bluetooth devices directly, it doesn't use the HA abstractions needed to talk to proxy devices.

[spring bramble]

In the latest version of the Matter Server you can use a bluetooth dongle connected to your HA server. Just enter the interface ID of that (dedicated) bluetooth dongle in the add-on settings and you can commission devices from the Matter server's own web interface. Soon we will also support that from HA itself. Note that this is not a perfect solution as your devices that you want to commission need to be in close range (max 10 meters) of the bluetooth dongle.

[marble perch]

Note that because of how thread mesh works, there's no problem bringing devices close to the ha machine to provision them, then moving them elsewhere. It'll figure out the mesh routing changes automatically.

[feral horizon]

The problem is I don't have any Bluetooth adapter and I don't want to get one just to provision/commission a thread/master device. Is it not possible to use someone I already have? Not even Bluetooth on a esp32?

And my home assistant is in a data center, there's no way to have my matter/thread device to see both the thread border router and the Bluetooth at the same time

[twin vine]

Ah god, you got a way to funnel Mdns traffic to it?

You gotta know what you are doing

[magic girder]

Yeah that sounds like a very difficult case to me.

[feral horizon]

L2 tunnel to my router

[twin vine]

How are you doing that; tap tunnel?

[polar thunder]

we call this in the business "working yourself into a shoot"

having a remote home assistant server that doesn't even reside in your home... are you listening to yourself?

[twin vine]

Yeah, I wasn’t going to be that blunt 😅

[feral horizon]

It's 1ms away so 🤷 literally the same data center as my ISP has point of presence to

[polar thunder]

I didn't want to pull up the ol "so preoccupied with whether you could..." "Never stopped to think where you should..."

[twin vine]

Right, so you never answered the question

Are you able to access the HA instance on homeassistant:8123 (to test atleast some MDNS is working)?

[magic girder]

Matter and Thread are so network-sensitive that In my own home network I had to replace an entire web of high-end wifi routers with a new set from a completely different manufacturer just to be able to provision devices from my phone. It really is a bit of a minefield, and having your HA server offsite is adding a whole extra layer of complexity to the situation, which may not easily be overcome. IPv6 over L2TP is difficult at best, and when you add the requirement for flawless mDNS, it does sound next to impossible to me. Whether or not you have any chance of making it work will depend entirely on what hardware and software you are using at either end of the link, as well as your own skill and any number of unknowns in between.

[spring bramble]

Yeah, but imagine that new fridge running Matter soon, are you going to carry it close to your HA box ?

[toxic coyote]

Whats the product name of these bulbs? According to my googling Phillips does not sell matter compatible bulbs, you require their shitty bridge

[twin vine]

It’s only matter compatible coz it’s bridging to matter via the bridge

Same idea as aqara

[toxic coyote]

Yeah that was my understanding too

[feral horizon]

L2 as in layer 2 I.e. data link layer tunnel, not l2tp

Which means same broadcast domain

[polar thunder]

Phillips has a line of bulbs built under the Wiz tech stack. These are wifi bulbs with out of the box matter compatibility. You're thinking of their Hue lineup

[toxic coyote]

Wow they intentionally nerf them

Only 806 lumens, vs 1100

[polar thunder]

Honestly since they're wifi they might just be afraid of cooking a beefier soc

[vast sierra]

With SkyConnect, if I swap from multiprotocol to thread only, will my currently adopted thread devices persist?

[toxic coyote]

Id love to use them but 806 is no bueno, too dim for my uses

[marble perch]

At least a fridge is likely to have a touchscreen ui that can be used to configure wifi directly, which means an on-network matter set up might be possible :/

[tacit dirge]

whats the vibe on skyconnect w/ dual functionality?

used to be bad don't do

still the case?

[twin vine]

yeah, still not recommended

[spring bramble]

And it will never be

[ornate hollow]

hello there

[ionic plaza]

so thats also a signal avoiding gateways using multi-pan solutions? Like Tuya?

[ornate hollow]

I hope someone can help me, because I don't know what to do anymore. I have bought two Sky Connect devices (from the first versions). One of them came with the ID "usb-Silicon_Labs_CP2102N_USB_to_UART_Bridge_Controller" but I was able to configure it manually on a ProxMox virtual machine with Home Assistant. The other device came with the correct ID and since I connected it to the RPi with Home Assistant it was detected and subsequently configured. In both cases, I have used the Thread firmware and they are configured as Border Routers. My intention is to unify both border routers in one of the HA instances, but I find it completely impossible to create a nested network despite seeing both routers in both instances of Home Assistant. The problem is that the remote router does not appear with the ℹ️ icon.

I would like to comment that I finally tried to change the ID of the device attached to de VM. I did it without problem and it was detected by Home Assistant ... but the result is the same. I can't create a nested network with both devices.

[twin vine]

what firmware is flashed onto it?

[ornate hollow]

---

Add-on: OpenThread Border Router
OpenThread Border Router add-on

Add-on version: 2.9.1
You are running the latest version of this add-on.
System: Home Assistant OS 12.4 (amd64 / qemux86-64)
Home Assistant Core: 2024.8.1
Home Assistant Supervisor: 2024.08.0

Please, share the above information when looking for help
or support in, e.g., GitHub, forums or the Discord chat.

NabuCasaMetadata(metadata_version=1, sdk_version='4.4.0', ezsp_version=None, ot_rcp_version='SL-OPENTHREAD/2.4.0.0_GitHub-7074a43e4' (2.4.0.0), cpc_version=None, fw_type=<FirmwareImageType.OT_RCP: 'ot-rcp'>, baudrate=460800)

[ornate hollow]

exporting TLV using docker exec -it addon_core_openthread_border_router bash; ot-ctl; dataset active -x and then importing into the other HA instance make the ℹ️ icon to appears, but still no way to nest both routers

[zinc fog]

How can I clear or remove preferred thread network in Home Assistant?

[ocean mauve]

What’s the best way to run a preferred thread network?

How soon is “soon” for the home assistant connect ZBT-1 to support Thread?

[sick swan]

Yes, if it is the preferred dataset. Once you add the new OTBR integration, it will pick up the same Thread configuration and the device should continue to work.

[sick swan]

Thread support is already working. The device page needs updateting 😅
Make sure to follow the guide at https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/thread#turning-home-assistant-into-a-thread-border-router to setup your OTBR.

[ornate hollow]

Hello one more time.. Who provides technical support for Sky Connect devices?

[twin vine]

Well, this channel

[vale cliff]

What are my options for BR30 thread over matter smart bulbs, is Nanoleaf the only one on the market? I can't find any good product lists.

I've heard that Phillips Hue lights have Thread functionality but are they usable without the Hue bridge like that?

I have a Sky Connect dongle that I wish to use for the Thread over Matter bulbs I'm getting, I messed up and bought some AiDot light bulbs and while they did support Matter they were WiFi only 🥲

So that's why I'm trying to get as much info as I can about my options this time

[ocean mauve]

Can I plug the zbt-1 into the usb 2 port on the raspberry pi 5 or is that too close to the usb 3 ports?

[upbeat cairn]

I would always use the USB extension cable

[vast sierra]

Yeah! I just tried it last night and it seemed to hold onto all the devices. Was able to add a lightswitch no problem after as well.

Now all of my window shades actually stay available with the dongle in thread only mode, and the switch acting like a routing device.

[ornate hollow]

I don't really know how to interpret that hehe

[serene prawn]

@ornate hollow I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

[ornate hollow]

What I am doing wrong ?

[clear salmon]

Hello, I’m trying to setup my thread network of 3 Nanoleaf devices but I can’t set my border router preference. Does anyone have any ideas of what I can do?

[polar thunder]

Your phone still has the old Thread network credentials. You have to delete all Google Play Services data and reimport credentials.

[clear salmon]

Bump

[ornate hollow]

I'm going to lose all my wallet cards

I will try this afternoon, thanks

[sick swan]

You need the Thread network credentials to make it preferred. That said, "preferred" on Core side doesn't have a lot of meaning currently. If you have the Android App installed, afaik the Nanoleaf app will share the credentials on your phone, and onboarding should work even when the network is not preferred on HA Core side.

What do you trying to do ultimately?

@ornate hollow

1.- One HA instance was not detecting my Sky Connect because some hardware IDs were wrong from the factory. The solution was the following:
Whoops, sorry to here. It seems that a small number of devices somehow slipped through in production. The production setup has meanwhile improved, so this shoudl not happen in the future.

FWIW, this add-on allows to program the stick too:
https://github.com/home-assistant/addons-development/tree/master/skyconnect_cp2102n_programmer

[clear salmon]

I see.
I am trying to connect the 3 lights i have to my HA so that I am able to control them entirely (colour, off/on state, brightness etc.), I would like to maintain connection to my Apple Home app to be able to control them using that as well. Sorry if I am missing any details, very new to this

[sick swan]

5.- After many attempts, today, I realized that by setting the remote border router as preferred, I could join the local border router (the one connected by USB to the HA instance on which I am performing the procedure) and nest the networks.

Yeah, the way to combine OTBRs is making a network preferred and use the "Add to preferred network" command. Maybe not quite obvious 😢

Maybe should added to the Thread integration docs? Did you pass by there when trying/searching for a solution? 🤔

[sick swan]

So Thread and Matter are largely ortogonal. Like WiFi and Matter, Thread is just the transport. But Matter includes configuring network protocl credentials for new devices (for WiFi and Thread).

But a device can only be connected to one Thread network at a time. But you can use the Home Assistant Thread network, and add the device to Apple Home still (or vis-versa, you can add a device to the Apple Thread network if you have Apple Thread Border routers, and add that device to HA on Matter level still).

If you have the device commissioned with HA, you can use the "Share device" command on the HA Matter device page. This will give you a QR code/setup code you can use to add the device to Apple Home as well.

[clear salmon]

Alright. At the moment, my HA is picking up a Thread network but I am unaware of how to actually take anything from it. I have tried to add my Nanolead devices using he integration for it but due to some issue I am unable to get their individual IPs

[ornate hollow]

The local thread network (the one that had the Sky Connect device on the USB of the machine with the HA instance where I make that configuration) was already preferred. In that case I cannot nest the remote thread network (the one that had the Sky Connect device in the other HA instance).

I didn't see that in the documentation. The documentation assumes that there is no preferred thread network, although I may be wrong because English is not my native language.

[sick swan]

Afaik, the Nanoleaf integration supports the propitiatory Nanoleaf protocol. But HA does not support Thread management for these devices. So you need to use the Nanoleaf app and to commission those devices to the Thread network.

[clear salmon]

On the nanoleaf app they are already saying they are in the thread network, what would my next move be?

[sick swan]

What Nanoleaf devices are we talking about?

[clear salmon]

I have 2 A19 bulbs and an Essential Light Strip

[sick swan]

So the Nanoleaf integration (https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/nanoleaf) is only for these devices: Nanoleaf Light Panels, Canvas, Shapes, Elements, and Lines

[sick swan]

Now the essentials are either using the HomeKit protocol or Matter. What logo do you have on the packaging?

[clear salmon]

I literally only got rid of the box the other day after hoarding it for a long time, is there any way to tell via the app?

or on the physical controls of the light?

[sick swan]

Maybe check your order receipt

When it's a Matter device, you should have a "Conenct to Matter" card in the device settings on the App

(at least when I look on a A19 essentials on my Nanoleaf app on Android)

[twin vine]

yeah, should be the same on iOS

[sick swan]

Do you happen to know if there were A19 for HomeKit? I guess they were not upgradable to Matter? 🤔

[clear salmon]

as far as i'm aware nothing is showing in terms of matter, would it be under system details?

[sick swan]

There were HomeKit of Essential Light Strip, that I am pretty sure about. And I think those can't be upgraded.

[sick swan]

On the device page pressing the gear icon on the top right

[twin vine]

There was a A19|E26 for homekit yeah (still shows on the japanese NL website)

[sick swan]

There I have System Control, Connections, System Details. Underneath Connections I have "Connect to Matter"

[sick swan]

If those are HomeKit, then you'd need the HomeKit Device integration: https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/homekit_controller/. But devices should be detected automatically, as in show up as discovered. If that is not the case, then maybe there is a mDNS propagation issue (are you using VLANs or something)?

[vapid shell]

they won't show up if they are paired to another controller

and as they are on a thread network, i guess they'd already be paired to iOS?

[clear salmon]

yes they are, if i reset each device should they (in theory) show up when adding a homekit devices integration

[vapid shell]

if you unpair them without hard resetting them they should pop up in HA, if you don't have mDNS and VLAN issues

if you reset them, they'll drop off thread and you'll need a bluetooth dongle for HA to be able to put them back on the thread network

[clear salmon]

oh alright

so do i unpair them from my home app and not the nanoleaf one?

[vapid shell]

from home

i'd stand close to them when you do it

and use the home app to interact with it, so toggle light on and off and then unpair it

unfortunately when you remove a device from ios it pretends it works, even if it doesnt

so checking the device has a connection right before you remove it is the best and safest way to increase the chances it wont screw up

[clear salmon]

alright that makes sense, and do unpair you just mean going to 'accessory settings' and clicking 'remove accesory'?

[vapid shell]

i only have bridges connected to ios which have different wording, but that sounds about right

[clear salmon]

it seems that when i remove it from my home it also removes it from the thread network

maybe not actually

after i disconnect it from the home app it also says offline in the nanoleaf app

[sick swan]

Ah right, no multi-admin in HomeKit 😅

[sick swan]

Afaik, the Nanoleaf should always be able to connect, if not through Thread then via Bluetooth.

[vapid shell]

That’s expected

You’d have to use a zeroconf/mdns browser to see if it was actually off the thread network

Look at _hap._udp.local

[topaz leaf]

Hello there. I got myself a Magrgb strip for my desk which is a nanoleaf device.

At first it was Bluetooth only, so connected it to my thread Border Router (Nest Hub 2) and added that thread router to home Assistant.

There was one time, when I saw the strip as an home kit device, but after entering pairing code it just said already configured and disappeared.

So now my main question is. How can I add it to my Home Assistant through the Thread Network.

I am running Home Assistant as an Docker Container on the most current Version.

Thx in advance

[vapid shell]

can you control it from an ios phone right now?

[topaz leaf]

I have an android phone and can control it via the nanoleaf app even when Im not near.

But I do not have access to an iOS device

[vapid shell]

good. was just checking its not connected to ios, as that would have caused the symptoms you described

could you control it from HA when it was on bluetooth?

and did you use the nanoleaf app to move it to thread?

[topaz leaf]

I didn't try Bluetooth cause the Bluetooth integration always had problems from within the docker.
And yes I added the device the the thread via the nanoleaf app

[vapid shell]

and in the app, it says the strip is connected to thread? and when you control it is it always fast or is there lag of a few seconds?

[topaz leaf]

The app says connection via thread. And response is pretty quick. Also the fact that it reacts when Bluetooth on the phone is off

[vapid shell]

good

ok so i'd expect the device to still be in homekit pairing mode and visible to HA

(though thats not the normal way to get a thread HK device into HA)

next step - can you get an mdns/zeroconf tool for your phone

and look for _hap._udp.local

sorry i can't suggest one, im on ios

also, do you have vlans? or do you have 'prosumer' networking gear like unifi?

[topaz leaf]

No just multiple Fritzbox router directly connected via lan

[topaz leaf]

Got a program and found my rgb strip

[vapid shell]

does it show a bunch of keys like c# or id

[topaz leaf]

Yes

Id looks like a Mac address

[vapid shell]

it does but its not 🙂

whats the value of the sf key

[topaz leaf]

0

[vapid shell]

its claiming its already paired to an homekit ecosystem

did you ever try to pair to HA and you put the code in and it seemed to fail?

[topaz leaf]

I did

[vapid shell]

well it got far enough into that process that the device thought it worked

and is now in an unpairable state

i think you'll need to hard reset it to try again

[topaz leaf]

I will do that. And with this I would just connect it via Home Kit, so the whole thread setup wouldn't even be needed?

[vapid shell]

if you have bluetooth working in HA and its close enough AND you have a preferred thread network configured in HA AND that thread network is accessible by HA

then do it all through homekit device, then go into the device page and there will be a button to migrate it to thread

then it wont need bluetooth any more

thats the normal process

if thats a no go, put it on thread with the nanoleaf app again, and then tell me what the sf field says

[topaz leaf]

Will go with this. And will update you once done

[clear salmon]

What is this?

so my assumption is that once all the devices are off the home app, they should appear in homekit devices when i add the integration

[vapid shell]

_hap._udp.local is an mDNS record type, your homekit devices will appear under there with a name like NanoLeaf123A._hap._udp.local

if they have an sf field that is set to 1, that means they are pairable and HA will show them

yours are probably showing 0 (or were until you removed them from the Home app)

[vapid shell]

you shouldn't need to add the integration even

[topaz leaf]

Now it's at value 1

[vapid shell]

if your network is working properly, HA will spot _hap._udp.local records immediately

[clear salmon]

i believe my network is fine at the moment, the only thing i can think of is that my pc and the server that HA runs on are connected via a switch

[vapid shell]

so right now you've removed the devices from the Home app in iOS, and your HA cannot immediately see them as a discovery, right?

[clear salmon]

Yes

[vapid shell]

so either they did fall off thread (which that model never has for me) or there is a network problem or they didn't get removed from ios cleanly and ios lied about it

an mDNS browsing tool on your phone is the best bet for ruling out the first

i use https://apps.apple.com/us/app/discovery-dns-sd-browser/id305441017

[clear salmon]

okay i've got it now, under _hap._udp. both A19 bulbs are showing up

and under _lypdu._udp. all 3 lights are showing up

[vapid shell]

and under _hap._udp, do you see a field called 'sf'?

is it 1 or 0?

[clear salmon]

sf is 0 on both

[vapid shell]

0 means its paired to something

so iOS lied

[clear salmon]

should i reset them in that case?

[vapid shell]

yes

[clear salmon]

alright, and after i have reset them i'm looking for the values to be 0?

[vapid shell]

well after you reset them they definitely will fall off thread

so that record will timeout after a while

do you have bluetooth on your HA instance, and can you move the nanoleafs within a couple of metres of your HA box while we get them set up?

[clear salmon]

i have a cheap usb bluetooth adapter that I can try connect to it, im running it on a vm on a local server

and yes i can move them close

[vapid shell]

ok so if you get bluetooth working and reset those nanoleafs, HA should just discover them

then you put the pairing code in and you'll be able to control them over bluetooth

but on the device page there will be a button to migrate to thread

as long as HA knows the secret for your preferred network, it'll switch them over in less than a minute

[clear salmon]

alright, just working on making sure the bluetooth is being detected on the server and the vm

[vapid shell]

if its a realtek dongle it'll probably lock up a bit, if that happens all you can do is keep trying

HA will try to reset it if it detects its locked up

but i test with realtek dongles, they usually work long enough to get my test device onto the thread mesh

[clear salmon]

dongle should be good now

is it a good idea to try with the essential light strip first?

[vapid shell]

yeah, its easier to reset

[clear salmon]

not showing up on HA

[vapid shell]

either its not reset properly or theres a problem with your HA's bluetooth

[clear salmon]

ill double check the app to see if sf is 0

or 1

[vapid shell]

if its there at all, the light strip didn't reset properly

[clear salmon]

its not showing up on the app at all

[vapid shell]

good

[clear salmon]

is there a way i can easily check is HA is getting bluetooth?

[vapid shell]

did you add the Bluetooth integration?

[clear salmon]

i did not, it says there are no adapters found so im going to check that the vm is able to connect to the dongle

[vapid shell]

👍

[clear salmon]

even though the vm is definitely getting the bluetooth adapater HA still isnt picking it up, will try more tomorrow

it shows a message saying "No unconfigured Bluetooth Adapters found. There are 0 ignored adapters."

is this suggesting i need to somehow remove configurations for the adapter or what?

[vapid shell]

No it’s not

A surprising number of folks hid the Bluetooth integration instead of added it

So the message is a bit verbose to try and help them

But it doesn’t apply in your case

Bluetooth dongle is not detected by bluez

Are you running HAOS

If so then my guess is your Bluetooth dongle isn’t well supported under Linux

[clear salmon]

I’m assuming that may be the case, I am running HAOS on a VM from a Linux server

[sonic blaze]

Seems Updating thread credentials doesn't work... When I try adding a device, after doing so, it fails and shows an old Setup that was deleted. and not the preferred current one that is setup for Android/IiOS Credentials.

[sonic blaze]

If you reset the home-assistant border router (V2.9.1) it gets assigned ha-thread-XXXX. Making it the preferred network and setting to supply Android/IiOS Credentials. Seems not to sync correctly. Restoring Backup to 2.8.0 Brings back "home-assistant" border router. but it is not preferred. And the ha-thread-XXXX network is preferred and cant be deleted. Leaving "home-assistant" router as is and syncing credentials and you can add the devices again. upgrading back to 2.9.1 and they remain working. I would think setting the "home-assistant" border router back to preferred wouldn't make it join the current preferred network but replace it and not get renamed.

[hushed cliff]

does anyone have OTBR working in docker compose with skyconnect?

[sick swan]

Hm, technically, it should delete all credentials and just add the preferred one 🤔 . Did you use the sync credentials command from the Troubleshooting menu?

[vast sierra]

I just switched to OT only on my SkyConnect the other day, and its still unstable as all get out.

Works for 24 hours, then seems to crap the bed with devices falling out of communications.

I’ve even added a light switch to help with meshing the thread network, and its still flaky

Not really sure how to address it at this point. Everything is out of reach, including the new switch, and I cant adopt the next switch - keeps failing.

[vast sierra]

I there a reason I am unable to switch to thread only firmware via HA? Under hardware it only gives me the option to enable multi protocol mode.

[sick swan]

What Home Assistant Core version are you using? It should offer Thread and Zigbee, or disable/remove multi-protocol mode.

[vast sierra]

2024.8.2

Since yesterday I has having flakey issues, so I nuked all the devices on thread and pulled the dongle. Updated via web to the thread only firmware, and haven’t been able to get anything connected since.

[upbeat cairn]

Did you uninstall the multiprotocol addon?

[vast sierra]

Yup.

All zigbee and multi protocol is removed

I’d share screenings, but cant here

[ocean mauve]

I’m having problems with my connect zbt-1 and my matter over thread switches.

There appears to be a thread network that already exists from my Apple TV. Is that the issue?

I just get “unable to add accessory”

Idk if it’s a coincidence but it did start working after I unplugged my Apple TV

[vast sierra]

Very odd. I removed all sil labs, matter, threat, and ZigBee (there were none) add one and integrations, removed the sky connect, rebooted the whole rpi, and the hardware setting page still shows skyconnect and let's me try to configure it only with the multiprotocol, with the checkbox workflow.

Why on earth are images disabled on this server?

[polar thunder]

just use another image host like imgur

[vast sierra]

Usually servers that block images ban that too?

If they allow that, why make us jump through hoops?

[twin vine]

There are enabled on a few channels, but others you need imgur or whatever,

[serene prawn]

Please use imgur or other image sharing web sites, and share the link here.

Image posting is blocked in most channels to discourage people from sharing text as images. Sharing text as images assumes that everybody sees the world as you do, which isn't the case. Some people are colour blind, or have visual impairment that means they can't make sense of an image of text.

[twin vine]

There’s the reason as to why

[sonic blaze]

Yes I did sync the credentials.. It would be nice to have a way to reset to defaults as removing the integration and adding it back doesn't clear the settings. Just seems to be a bug. Would be nice to be able to delete the preferred with a "are you sure?" dialog as well.

[vast sierra]

Update - I rolled back to a 4 month old full backup. Updated the HA core in place, and was able to get the new UX for controlling the mode the SkyConnect is in. Thats awesome.

I still have this device adoption issue now. The inovelli white matter/thread switch commissioning process fails at the chile king network connectivity part. I am using my android device to do the commissioning. I was able to get the switch connected in multiprotocol briefly and it was working. Here is the logs form the matter server, showing an error with network reachability.

https://imgur.com/a/eW2NUrh

[serene prawn]

@vast sierra I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

[vast sierra]

I was able to get commissioning to work when I disconnected my zwave dongle....

Got a few devices connected, then it shat the bed.

[vast sierra]

Its letting me commission again smoothly, devices showing up in the matter Python server. Only the first one is available. The rest are unavailable even right after a commission.

[vast sierra]

Using SkyConnect with OTBR and thread only firmware.

[sick swan]

What are the logs saying at that point?

The fact that one Thread device does show up and is available tells me that the Thread network per-se does work. Question is why the other devices went unavailable. Do you use multi-admin (are they paired with another ecosystem)? If not, simply remove them, and reset and reconnect, does that bring them back?

[vast sierra]

So, I was using all these devices in multi-protocol mode. Only ever had this HA instance.

Spent the last 2 days thrashing to get the skuconnect to work properly with thread only (removed the one signed switch I had). That's how I got to this point. Recomissioned the 2 innovelli white switches, and 2 smartwings shades. Then noticed all but the first switch was unavailable, even after full RPI reboots.

I JUST check again, and in the matter server UI all 4 devices are now available.

I can see battery life for the shades again now. So they are available again.

I touched nothing in the last 2 hours.

I'm really only pressed about this being flakey because of the disruption to the family using the house.

[sick swan]

Hm, so maybe the devices just took a moment to jump back on to the Thread network?

[vast sierra]

Is that typical?

I went down this hole because I'd constantly have devices drop (before the switches got here)

[sick swan]

Multiprotocol was/is known to be flaky, especially when using both sides (Zigbee and Thread).

Thread on my end (using a OpenThread Border Router add-on + SkyConnect/Connect ZBT-1) works wonderfully here. My devices stay available just fine, I have no disconnect issues etc.

But Thread (like Zigbee) relies on IEEE 802.15.4 (the radio protocol), which is quite susceptible to interference. Definitely make sure you have a clear channel, which doesn't overlap with your WiFi network etc.

[vale cliff]

I keep getting a "you need a thread border router" message on my phone when I try to pair my nanoleaf A19 bulbs to my HomeAssistant instance using a SkyConnect, I have the USB passthrough setup properly and it's running on a Proxmox VM.

I'm not using multiprotocol I don't think, I don't have any zigbee devices in the house.

[polar thunder]

did you sync thread credentials?

HA App > Settings > Compainion App > Troubleshooting > Sync Thread Credentials

this is how you get Google's Play Services to use your Thread network

(assuming you're on android)

[vale cliff]

I'm on iOS, I'll try that on my app though!

[polar thunder]

flow is different on iOS
Settings > Devices & Services > Thread integration > Send credentials to phone

[vale cliff]

Oh okay that's what I've been doing yeah

That didn't resolve this issue I'm having unfortunately

I also tried this on my boyfriend's Pixel 7, didn't work there either

So it's not an issue of my iOS device being weird with it

[polar thunder]

this is gonna sound really stupid have you tried rebooting your HA server

[vale cliff]

Uhhhh no but I don't think that sounds stupid, I work in IT so I've seen this fix a surprising amount of things lol

[polar thunder]

I've just seen a lot of things related to matter just not initialize until after a reboot

[vale cliff]

Unfortunately it didn't work. I have MatterServer and OpenThreadBorderRouter addons installed, am I missing anything?

Both of those are in integrations as well as a thread integration

Wait. Could it be that I don't have a DHCPv6 server running on my router?

I only had regular DHCP

[polar thunder]

Ipv6 is pretty important, try again

[vale cliff]

I think I might be fucked. My router is a MikroTik one, I don't think it supports mDNS based on what I've just read online.

[polar thunder]

The Absolute State of Consumer Device IPV6 Adoption

[twin vine]

to be fair, microtik isnt a "typical" home router

[vale cliff]

Yeah not at all lol, these things are more on the Cisco and Unifi side of things

Which makes it even more appalling

So am I truly just fucked? Is there any workaround I can do for this, some way I can set up a container or other virtualized thing to handle mDNS for me?

My Home Assistant is receiving an IPv6 address still, like I can go to the network interfaces and see it

[twin vine]

what does the address start with?

fe80?

[vale cliff]

Yeah fe80

From what I understand mDNS is only needed to go across different subnets, if all of my IoT devices are on an IPv6 subnet aren't I still just using Home Assistant to connect to them anyways?

[polar thunder]

Having devices across subnets tend to break mDNS

And mDNS isn't really a router feature?

[twin vine]

oh wait, you need to add the multicast package to routerOS apparently

[ocean mauve]

My sky connect seems to have died with the new update.

Open thread border router doesn’t seem to be able to start anymore

[twin vine]

what new update?

[ocean mauve]

New home assistant os update

[twin vine]

13.1? whats shown in the OTBR-add on logs?

[vast sierra]

Make sure the baud rate and device are configure correctly in the add on settings

I THINK my devices are all chill now?
2 Inovelli White switches
6 smartwings window covers
After commissioning a couple, then everything going unresponsive, I gave up for a bit. Checked backband everything commissioned was just there and happy. Seems I can only do one or two at a time before it shits the bed.

All seems well now. Very odd.

Tangential - I was reading some folks complaining of SmartWings matter covers being flakey, and dropping out. My exact symptoms. Also complained of old formware.

Reached out to SmartWings today. They said October is the target date for firmware updates to their mattet products, and should be OTA.