#thread-archived

1 messages · Page 17 of 1

vapid shell
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That was all for @sly mirage. I think your problem is your router. Which I don’t have any advice about beyond what we already discussed.

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I replaced my Unifi router with openwrt and things definitely improved

sly mirage
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Thanks! I will check your links and see if I can find a solution.

However, I have the same problem with HAOS 12.3. I connect via ssh and use the cli. I have most of my servers running on a Proxmox host and just recently migrated from ESXi. Installed Debian Bookworm on an old RaspPi 3b today, just to verify if it I have the same problem, and it's the same issue.

vapid shell
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Some hypervisors can interfere with the RAs too

sly mirage
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Could my firewall interfere with the local LAN traffic? It's a pfSense

vapid shell
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If you have a switch and your firewall is connected to one port, HA to another, your wifi to another, etc m, then of sense won’t see your traffic

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It tends to be things like mdns repeaters or Igmp snooping that are the problem

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On hypervisors, it tends to be the hypervisors bridge networking that stops icmp6 RAs getting from your border routers to the vm

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Again, tcpdump is your friend. If you have ssh access to proxmox itself.

magic sedge
sly mirage
vapid shell
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We are looking for option 24, which looks like this in tcpdump:

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route info option (24)

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The source MAC address should be your border router

sly mirage
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It seems I get the correct info from the Apple TBRs:
" ICMPv6 Option (Route Information : Medium fdeb:b1b6:88a3::/64)
Type: Route Information (24)
Length: 2 (16 bytes)
Prefix Length: 64
Flag: 0x00, Route Preference: Medium
Route Lifetime: 1800 (30 minutes)
Prefix: fdeb:b1b6:88a3::
ICMPv6 Option (RA Flags Extension)
Type: RA Flags Extension (26)"

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Above is from Wireshark running on my Win PC. Do I need to verify with tcpdump that the same info arrives for Debian and HAOS?

vapid shell
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Yes

marble perch
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Have you mentioned which devices are on wifi vs which are on ethernet? sometimes even if both are on the same vlan, the router might be filtering some of the traffic between them :/

sly mirage
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I get this from all three TBR:13:04:55.167932 IP6 fe80::1865:83ad:34e:3fcd > ip6-allnodes: ICMP6, router advertisement, length 48

vapid shell
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i run with "-vvv" to get more verbose output

sly mirage
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To get less data I selected my active Apple Hub that also is TBR: Got option 24 every 8 minutes. What can I check as next?

Used this command: tcpdump -i eth0 host fe80::1c59:f485:2c07:f030 -vvv

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13:22:57.934851 IP6 (flowlabel 0x00900, hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 48) fe80::1c59:f485:2c07:f030 > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 48
hop limit 0, Flags [none], pref medium, router lifetime 0s, reachable time 0ms, retrans timer 0ms
route info option (24), length 16 (2): fdeb:b1b6:88a3::/64, pref=medium, lifetime=1800s
0x0000: 4000 0000 0708 fdeb b1b6 88a3 0000
unknown option (26), length 8 (1):
0x0000: 8000 0000 0000
source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 58:d3:49:c7:2e:23
0x0000: 58d3 49c7 2e23

vapid shell
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what device is that?

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haos?

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(where tcpdump is running)

sly mirage
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I assume this is not good?

#ip -6 route

2001:9b1:8b7e:xxxx:/64 dev eth0 proto kernel metric 256 expires 86332sec pref medium
fe80::/64 dev eth0 proto kernel metric 256 pref medium
default via fe80::be24:11ff:fe41:2e3c dev eth0 proto ra metric 1024 expires 1732sec hoplimit 64 pref medium

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The RaspPi Debian I fresh installed yesterday

vapid shell
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so you should have something like this:

fdeb:b1b6:88a3::/64 via fe80::1c59:f485:2c07:f030 dev eth0 metric 1024 expires 0sec

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if you have set all the sysctl correctly

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that RA is a little weird

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it doesn't have a "prefix info option (3)"

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my apple devices don't have an option 26

sly mirage
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I can test also from HAOS, but how do I install tcpdump?

vapid shell
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if you can get shell access inside the HA container "apk" works there, so you can "apk add tcpdump"

sly mirage
vapid shell
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right

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it won't work until you do of course

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sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.eth0.accept_ra=1
sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.eth0.accept_ra_rt_info_max_plen=64
sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.all.forwarding=0

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those settings will be lost on reboot, i leave it to you to fix that on your pi

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(only on your pi, DO NOT set those on haos)

sly mirage
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Catching data from HAOS

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From HAOS:

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15:56:02.590420 IP6 (flowlabel 0x00900, hlim 255, next-header ICMPv6 (58) payload length: 48) fe80::1c59:f485:2c07:f030 > ip6-allnodes: [icmp6 sum ok] ICMP6, router advertisement, length 48
hop limit 0, Flags [none], pref medium, router lifetime 0s, reachable time 0ms, retrans timer 0ms
route info option (24), length 16 (2): fdeb:b1b6:88a3::/64, pref=medium, lifetime=1800s
0x0000: 4000 0000 0708 fdeb b1b6 88a3 0000
unknown option (26), length 8 (1):
0x0000: 8000 0000 0000
source link-address option (1), length 8 (1): 58:d3:49:c7:2e:23
0x0000: 58d3 49c7 2e23

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IPv6 routes from HAOS - no "via" to any of the TBRs

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Only a "via" to the default route to Internet

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fe80::/64 dev enp6s18 metric 1024
default via 2001:9b1:8b7e:xxxx:1 dev enp6s18 metric 20100

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Success with the Pi, I can now ping Thread devices 👍😊

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fdeb:b1b6:88a3::/64 via fe80::1c59:f485:2c07:f030 dev eth0 proto ra metric 1024 expires 1683sec pref medium
fdeb:b1b6:88a3::/64 via fe80::1865:83ad:34e:3fcd dev eth0 proto ra metric 1024 expires 1684sec pref medium
fdeb:b1b6:88a3::/64 via fe80::189c:8647:88ec:4e56 dev eth0 proto ra metric 1024 expires 1715sec pref medium

vapid shell
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iirc static wont work

sly mirage
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Aaha, I think static. Will change and test

vapid shell
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static disables icmp6 RA processing 🙂

sly mirage
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Okey. So it will never work with static IPv6 config? Or is it just messy to configure today?

vapid shell
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Never work

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RA based configuration is automatic and dynamic, it is not by definition static.

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I think you should have a /etc/sysctl.d folder, make your own file following the others as a template for syntax. Then reboot and make sure it works

magic sedge
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Something I don't really understand : if I can see from a computer the Thread devices using avahi-browse -r _hap._udp, why can't I ping them afterwards ?

vapid shell
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There are many reasons

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Icmp6 and mdns both need to work and you are only testing one with that command

magic sedge
vapid shell
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Yes

magic sedge
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Oh so I should focus on icmp6 !

vapid shell
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If you can see one but not the other it’s normally a sign that your network is incorrectly segmented and there are repeaters masking it at an mdns level. That could be vlans. That could be WiFi gear suppressing essential traffic in the name of airtime performance.

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Sometimes it can be a hypervisor

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Unifi is especially good at breaking this stuff.

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I suppose if you are able to get to a shell inside your Ha container like @sly mirage did then doing what they did with tcpdump and ip -6 route would be good diagnostics. I likely can’t help with that, my setup is quite different from yours, but I can interpret the output if you are able to get it.

magic sedge
serene prawnBOT
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@magic sedge I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
magic sedge
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(arg)

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The Thread devices are all on a different IPv6, like fd41:f57a:f2de:1:5a41:47b6:d96c:921d

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If the IPv6-test website is to be trusted, ICMPv6 messages are indeed blocked. I'm trying to activate rules in the firewall of UniFi to let them go but so far, nothing. Though I'm not sure if I have to reboot computers in order to make it work or something.

vapid shell
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The fourth route looks like an RA route

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But it’s like you’ve not done the Sysctl tuning

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But change eth0 to enp2s0

magic sedge
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Yes I did, and double checked, it should be OK

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I used the "all" instead of defining the one Ethernet port I'm currently using. Maybe it's changing something ?

serene prawnBOT
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@magic sedge I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
vapid shell
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You need to use the interface name

magic sedge
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Oh

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Let me change that then

vapid shell
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These settings may conflict with docker (forwarding for example) so for a production install I’d recommend macvlan

magic sedge
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Since I can't even ping6 the devices from Debian, I'm guessing I don't need to go any further for now

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Unfortunately, using the interface name seems to change nothing on my side. I did also activate ICMPv6 on the UniFi (AFAIK) and nothing here too…

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Maybe I should reboot the Thread border routers each time ? I will have to wait another time to try that though…

vapid shell
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It takes a while for it to take effect

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Definitely more than a few minutes

magic sedge
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Oh OK, not ideal to debug. I will try again tonight then.

vapid shell
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The border routers only broadcast every few minutes. Can’t remember the exact number. Long enough to be annoying. So

magic sedge
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It works ! I haven’t even checked my Debian shell, I just noticed Thread lights going on and off. Finally.

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So thanks a lot @vapid shell ! I think what did it was activating ICMPv6 on the UniFi Firewall.

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I’ll check when I can by disabling the sysctl changes that were not necessary when I had my old router.

vapid shell
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It shouldn’t be a firewall setting

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Icmp6 is a broadcast to all devices connected to a switch

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I don’t know you network topology but with eg a USG the traffic wouldn’t even go to the router to block

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Generally the router firewall is an iptables firewall, you’d normally need something lower level to mess with bridged traffic

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And on Linux some switches aren’t even exposed enough to Linux to mess with stuff like that

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But I guess it is Unifi

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Would be interested in turning it back off and seeing if it still works in 30 minutes time

magic sedge
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I dont know as much as you about all this so maybe you’re right and it was not the ICMP stuff. I’ll try both, disabling the changes I made in UniFi to see if it still works and then those in Linux.

vapid shell
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Ok no that’s about icmp6 from the internet

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With a global address

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That does indeed cross a firewall

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But is also unrelated to thread

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That test website is also unrelated to thread

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You can get a fail on that website and have perfectly functional thread

magic sedge
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Even the Internet v6 Local ?

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(Now that I think about that, what a weird name…)

sly mirage
rich river
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So I wouldn’t think that UniFi FW settings would affect this if everything is on a single VLAN. I’ve got UniFi and for IPv6 LAN there’s a default catch all allow all which gets put in for reach VLAN, which would include ICMPv6. That should handle any internal hosts trying to ICMP between VLANs and out to t’Internet. Most of the stuff on the UniFi forums about UCMPv6 is to do with inbound ICMP, which by IPv6 standards is required, but isn’t open by default due to security.

abstract cipher
twin vine
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Have you done settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting, then Sync Thread credentials.

abstract cipher
abstract cipher
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In another attempt it fails with the message "Could not connect to Thread network (ha-thread-0d17). Make sure your device supports this type of network and try again"

twin vine
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What device is it?

marble perch
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they said nanoleaf bulb earlier.

twin vine
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ah yeah duh 😅

marble perch
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For nanoleaf bulbs, it's very important that you install the nanoleaf app and use it to update the firmware before attempting to add the bulb via matter.

twin vine
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@abstract cipher is the bulb updated?

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basically what kepstin said, iirc the latest (matter/thread) firmware version is 3.6.173

marble perch
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the errors that you're seeing sound like the service registration/lookup isn't working (i.e. the phone is unable to find the bulb via mdns after telling it to join the thread network). are home assistant (where your thread border router is running) and your phone on the same vlan?

tough prairie
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Anyone familiar with something like this? Active BRs are Apple Homepod and Skyconnect:
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.09:52:53.359 [N] MeshForwarder-: src:[fe80:0:0:0:60a0:3a2a:21ca:8c8e]:19788
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.09:52:53.359 [N] MeshForwarder-: dst:[fe80:0:0:0:fc13:a05:e61d:ca7a]:19788
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.09:53:04.303 [W] P-RadioSpinel-: Handle transmit done failed: ChannelAccessFailure
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.09:53:04.303 [N] MeshForwarder-: Failed to send IPv6 UDP msg, len:96, chksum:19cb, ecn:no, to:7a84668a4309f406, sec:no, error:ChannelAccessFailure, prio:net, radio:15.4

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I have tons of those in my OTBR log

upbeat cairn
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Channel Access Failure -> your SkyConnect is positioned somewhere very noisy and cannot transmit because there is too much noise

tough prairie
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Too noisy ... like radio noisy? Interesting. Thread uses channel 13, zigbee channel 15.

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I had these kind of ChannelAccessFailures for about 30 mins, during this time the matter devices where offline, then it changed:
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.09:56:12.759 [N] MeshForwarder-: Dropping rx frag frame, error:Drop, len:96, src:0x9000, dst:0x5000, tag:28550, offset:304, dglen:1280, sec:yes

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And then this and now all devices are back again:
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.10:09:32.190 [N] MeshForwarder-: src:[fd8c:874:52cf:1:afda:65e3:9e95:5250]:5540
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.10:09:32.190 [N] MeshForwarder-: dst:[fd8c:874:52cf:1:2989:3259:df95:3238]:33511
otbr-agent[178]: 10d.10:09:34.188 [N] MeshForwarder-: Dropping (reassembly queue) IPv6 UDP msg, len:1086, chksum:0f7d, ecn:no, sec:yes, error:ReassemblyTimeout, prio:normal, rss:-86.5, radio:15.4

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I have no clue what that is. But the only thing which I could imagine that something was changed in the mesh between the Skyconnect and the Apple BR

upbeat cairn
abstract cipher
marble perch
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yes, mdns is required. both your phone and home assistant need to be able to resolve mdns published by the thread border router.

abstract cipher
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that's the problem then I guess. I will look for how to fix it then

stone tapir
tight ether
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Battery operated and $18 versus $80

stone tapir
twin vine
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just sticky tape it to the top of the bucket

stone tapir
tight ether
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I don't think you'll find an answer to that- you can always open it up and cut the trace to the speaker, or buy it and return it if it doesn't meet what you need

twin vine
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Look at the reviews of it, maybe it’s a setting in the app

vapid shell
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There’s a handful of eve settings we do expose (like the height above sea level setting on the eve room) but a lot of them are encoded in an undocumented TLV that no one has fully mapped out (and is different for every product)

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You might be able to pair it to iOS, set the setting (if it exists) with the Eve app, then unpair it and repair it to Ha. I have done that to calibrate Eve thermos and enable the child locks - the settings persist. But this is tricky with thread and battery eve devices (due to firmware bugs)

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I don’t think anyone has filed any bugs about it so I don’t have the diagnostic data to make any more guesses

stone shell
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I can't find info on it anywhere, is it not possible to include the OTBR addon in backups? Is it fundamentally impossible or just not implemented yet? I was trying to transfer my HA to a VM to see if the thread radio was working from a VM yet, but realized none of the OTBR stuff seemed to carry over, which would make it pretty hard to restore

twin vine
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isnt it? even when doing a full-backup

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i have had no issue with it

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the USB path will be different, and most of the settings may be different (in a diffrent enviroment), so maybe not a bad thing?

vapid shell
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so even if OTBR addon isn't, the thread integration should be. and that should have a copy of your thread network credentials (if its set as your preferred network, it must).

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the OTBR integration should be able to trigger the OTBR addon to set up a new mesh based on that preferred network

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though quite how you would trigger that i don't know. maybe remove the otbr integration (if installed), then install the OTBR addon. i think the OTBR addon would trigger the OTBR integration again, and that would sync from the thread integration and pick up the existing network?

tiny carbon
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So home assistant/nabu has thread hardware products, right?

Any of them able to support the thread 1.3 spec? Do they have a firmware update for it?

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Skyconnect or yellow or green

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Also everything is currently in my Google nest-pan network, how hard would it be to move it into a home-assistant dedicated network? (Other border routers are Apple Hub and Google Nest atm)

upbeat cairn
tiny carbon
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They already have thread 1.3 networks? 😮

Guess I'll make it my main now then

tiny carbon
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I messed up 😅
In trying to reset it, I deleted the zha and otbr entries from the integrations page and now I don't know how to get them back

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Like the skyconnect multiprotocol shows up in networks as open-thread but doesn't let me make it preferred network or anything

tiny carbon
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It tried to add it back to my old nest-pan network even though nothing else was there...

upbeat cairn
tiny carbon
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Do I have to flash that from website on PC? Or can I get away with the addon alone

upbeat cairn
tiny carbon
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That button doesn't really work well for me

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No check boxes and UI is broken on the page

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I'll try flashing from the website and getting the add-on manually

fallen shard
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Hi! i am getting a "select a wi-fi network" message with a loading screen that results in an error after some time after i scan the qrcode, this never appeared before, i am using an esp32c6 and while it is working for matter over wifi, if i do it using matter over thread, this loading screen still shows up

ionic plaza
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What would happen for SkyConnect with multi-pan enabled users when Z2M officially deprecates EZSP?

half bluff
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Got dataset with same extended PAN ID and same or older active timestamp, old dataset: '0e08000065901a07000000030000194a0300000f35060004001fffc002085ac6d585ef8245ed0708fd8cc726d7bc477f05106743a83ebcbcaa1956b2865c88118ae703104d79486f6d6532313233373131363534010232650410fc3b252042114431b21287033cc8eade0c0402a0f7f8',

new dataset: '0e08000065901a070000000300001935060004001fffc002085ac6d585ef8245ed0708fd8cc726d7bc477f05106743a83ebcbcaa1956b2865c88118ae703104d79486f6d6532313233373131363534010232650410fc3b252042114431b21287033cc8eade0c0402a0f7f8'

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Is this a problem

upbeat cairn
covert flare
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I wonder, why there are still so few Matter over Thread devices. There are Matter and Thread light switches, but not both at the same time (Inovelli expected to ship mid-June). There is only one button (Tuo), and it's not very good. Only one brand for lights (Nanoleaf). No sensors. No thermostats.

twin vine
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Eh, I don’t think there is just a single answer, demand? Complexity with thread/matter? Lack of Grey market alternatives? Extra horsepower needed for the matter stack where older SOC’s may not be able to handle it?

covert flare
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My feeling was that maybe third party library or firmware is low quality. Eve promised Matter upgrades for their Thread light switches and not delivered them. Then I watched Nanoleaf take the plunge with Matter over Thread and the pains they had to go through.

twin vine
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Their sense+ controllers are about to be shipped out to participants in the hardware beta, so will be intresting to see how they are (still using the sillabs mg24 ive heard)

spring bramble
# covert flare I wonder, why there are still so few Matter over Thread devices. There are Matte...

You need to (re)set your expectations - the Matter standard is only 1.5 years old and need some time to mature as well as manufacturers need some time to switch their production lines. Thread is way more difficult to implement than WiFi based. People just dont like all that extra complexity with requiring a border routers and such so the strategy is to first make sure folks have border routers in their home (theyre hidden in small speakers, access points, tv's and even fridges) and then the infrastructure is there to actually use Thread devices out of the box. Until then: WiFi devices are way more easier for both manufacturers and consumers.

The short answer: Just have a little bit of patience

ionic plaza
# covert flare I wonder, why there are still so few Matter over Thread devices. There are Matte...

It's also expensive not just for certification (Thread/Matter/fees for test lab) but also development resource (it's hard to recruit developer/product manager who know about Thread either).

That's enough to scare away some firms for sure, and you can tell the macro-economy is not good recent years so lots of companies wont bet on Thread.

When the cost went down and the thread/matter get mature, there would be more I think.

twin vine
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@ionic plaza the icons for aqara and smart-things/samsung should be added in b1 releasing tomorrow morning

ionic plaza
twin vine
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the whole glnet thing is a debacle in itself 😅, their S20 uses the OpenThread as the vendor name, while the S200 uses the correct vendor name

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also they dont have icons in the brand repo, so i need to add that eventually before they keep pumping these thread routers out

serene flame
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hello

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does anyone know how to remove Thread credentials from iOS KeyChain?

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thanks!

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thread/store_in_platform_keychain

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something like this to delete

sly mirage
ionic plaza
twin vine
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I know glnet don’t, but finding a good company logo for them is hard 😅

steady forge
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I've resorted to an old Android phone to manage all my Thread/Matter devices instead and keep my iPhone far away from everything

ionic plaza
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NL essentials now have new beta firmware v3.6.196

solid sedge
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Hey all. Trying to re-start my thread setup after moving over to a VM (for Matter). I uninstalled everything, restarted the hardware and now am following the instructions from step 1 again. Somehow I've now got two border routers setup for my single SkyConnect. Did I miss something when trying to go back to a blank thread setup? Do I need to reflash the SkyConnect somehow?

twin vine
solid sedge
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Scrap everything I said above, another reset seems to have cleared things out and it's back to 1. Sorry for the noise!

twin vine
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hahaha all good dude

marsh island
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I am struggling with running OTBR on a separate device from home assistant and hoping someone can help.

I have OTBR docker (upstream container not the hass one) running on a pi and using macvlan so all ports are accessible and it advertises with mDNS.
I also configured it use an on-mesh prefix that is a /64 from my pool of /56
It also has a /64 IPv6 and /24 IPv4 from my normal LAN configured via macvlan
I formed a new mesh using the OTBR web interface
I configured the OTBR integration to point to http://192.168.1.4:8081 and completes installation.
I then install the thread integration and it sees my border router just fine.
I installed the matter add-on it seems to have no configuration and seem to be running fine

when i run the add matter device from my iphone i get one of two errors (i can't figure out what causes them to be different

soemtimes it says couldn't add device configuration failed (or somesuch)
other times it says 'thread border router required' which makes no sense as one is configured

I turned on debug logging for matter, thread and thread OTBR and see not much of anything useful in the logs

where should i go from here?

twin vine
marsh island
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iOS

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Home assistant can ping the OTBR on both IPv4 and IPv6 and _meshcop._udp is correctly seen by mdns.

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I can ping the on-mesh prefix IPv6 address from my lan machines (so assume I have full IPv6 routing between devices)

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I haven’t been able to commission a device from the OTBR web interface, which is concerning - it says succeeded but no mode gets added to the topology

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But I am not sure commission works as I enter the number from the side of the device into the commission ui.

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I paid more attention trying to add my aqara door sensor. I put the sensor in pairing mode - the blue light breathes. I initiate the add matter device flow on iOS. I scan the QR code and choose to add the device to home assistant. The light on the aqara starts to blink fast and then I get the no border router error. So I don’t know what component is generating the error in the app,and the logs seem to be no help.

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I wonder if it is the matter add on doesn’t know how to talk to the border gateway?

marsh island
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Hmm wonder if it’s because there are no thread creds in the companion app debug section….

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Don’t have any android in the house so I am a bit screwed if this is really an issue?

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Poop, I am stupid it says it does t work on iOS in the notes. I need to read more.

twin vine
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This will add the OTBR creds to the Apple keychain and allow you to pair devices directly

marsh island
# twin vine This will add the OTBR creds to the Apple keychain and allow you to pair devices...

thanks will try this with the next device, while i wa splaying D&D with friends online i realized i had an unused anddoid phone in a box (Astro 5G - terrible indiegogo 😦 ) broke that out and paid the aqara sensor. So i know it is all working now. Only thing i can't figure out with OTBR Docker is how to persist the radio config when the container is destroyed (unless it is stored on the dongel?)

twin vine
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mount /data somwhere?

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i know there is something about it somewhere

marsh island
# twin vine mount /data somwhere?

thanks, yeah i have been looking trhough the fuile system to gfind where it stored, i need look harder
thanks for the gist link - looks great - i assume in my case the thread host ip:8081 would be my OTBR not the hass host?

twin vine
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yeop

marsh island
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if you wrote that up, thanks!

twin vine
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no i didnt lol

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im not that smart 🤣

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this is the dockerfile that the HA add-on uses

marsh island
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yeah i looked at that and it doesn't seem to persist data, i also found a github merge that indicates one can have the addon connect over the network using socat to a machine with the RCP - though the UI only shows ttyXXX options at the moment - so that might be a better long term approach

marsh island
# twin vine im not that smart 🤣

me neither 🙂 - i can't get the button to do anything (in a browser it throws an error from the .js so i know the button is linked to the custom code) oh well

urban sierra
#

Does anyone have success with Thread addon on LXC installation of Home Assistant? Is there any know issue that makes only HAOS suitable for it?

vapid shell
#

Kind of, yes (edited to be clear - yes there are issues)

#

HAOS is encouraged because it contains Linux kernel patches and network manager patches that are needed to make thread work well

#

The more obscure your environment the more of those fixes you’ll need to understand and replicate in your own environment

#

I think you are the first lxc user in here, so you’d be asking for a hobby fixing low level ipv6 networking

twin vine
#

It’s going to be infinitely more stable, and it is also supported officially

urban sierra
#

I know that and actually I use HAOS, just considered trying LXC due to lighter resource footprint. And also found no objetive (real issue report) reason not to use it.

versed glen
#

Anyone successfully get Nanoshapes thread border router working in HA?

twin vine
#

Should be no reason it won’t work

versed glen
#

oh sorry, let me clarify. I'm using the shapes device as the border router and there is a thread/matter device connected to it. the thread network shows up in HA but there are no configuration options and i can't add a matter device

vapid shell
#

That makes a TLV string which you can add in the HA user interface on the thread integration page. It’s hidden on the … menu.

#

When you’ve done that you can sync your credentials to the iOS/android app and try again.

#

I think on iOS there’s a manual process to sync them over if you scroll up in here or in #matter-archived you should find it.

#

It’s meant to be added to the UI soon.

twin vine
#

Yep

versed glen
#

I can see those. I'll take a look at the script tomorrow! thanks!

vapid shell
#

Unfortunately there isn’t actually a standard for onboarding thread routers, so the process is different for every one, and what you can and can’t do is different for every ecosystem. Which is why there are only import and export options for iOS and nest. That’ll change in the future - it’s a key goal for the next version of thread. But that’s not out yet much less shipping.

livid sluice
#

Hi guys! Does anyone know how to remove Thread credentials from iOS keychain?If I only connect an iOS to one home assistant and to one thread network my devices commission fine, but I have notived that when I use another ha with another thread network, both networks are saved in iOS keychain, they get messed up with each other and the commissioning says "Thread Border Router Required"

haughty parrot
#

I saw messages on GitHub to ask here. Is it possible to run a skyconnect with thread only firmware in a docker environment? Meaning HA, OTBR are separate containers, not using HAOS.
Host OS: Ubuntu server 22.04

vapid shell
#

There are some restrictions on what you can run the containers on too, some distros don’t even support the full set of ipv6 features thread needs. But 22.04 should be fine.

haughty parrot
#

Ok, is this documented anywhere?

vapid shell
#

The docs for the matter server container have all the syctls.

#

There’s a sliding scale of “best experience” to “here’s a new hobby debugging ipv6” so I never bothered setting up an OTBR i

#

There isn’t a docker container for HAs OTBR

#

I think most people use the upstream one but that will be missing patches that HA has that either don’t make sense upstream or haven’t been merged yet. Sometimes that means new APIs HA needs aren’t available on the upstream container.

haughty parrot
#

Is openthread/otbr the right image to be using?

#

ah gotcha

haughty parrot
#

With these sysctl variables, would I need to replace wlan0 with my own network interface? Or are they supposed to remain wlan0?

sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.wlan0.accept_ra=1
sysctl -w net.ipv6.conf.wlan0.accept_ra_rt_info_max_plen=64

vapid shell
#

If you have vlans, then it’s the vlan that your phone is on. And if you have other BRs they need to be on that vlan too.

#

There should be another Sysctl related to forwarding that is mentioned. That one might need some thought on some networks, docker depends on forwarding packets so it could impact other containers

haughty parrot
#

Yeah both kernel options were already enabled and net.ipv6.conf.all.forwarding was already set to 0

#

does the OTBR container need host networking? The default run command doesn't map port 8081, which I thought was required for the api

vapid shell
#

Yes, or macvlan

haughty parrot
#

It also has a sysctl setting which is contradictory to the matter instructions
net.ipv6.conf.all.forwarding=1

vapid shell
#

And that’s why the HAOS kernel is patched 🙂

haughty parrot
#

Ok, so just ignore the sysctl parts and run it with host networking. Any other changes on that run command?

vapid shell
#

Technically it’s not compliant with the ipv6 specs for a router to do node aliveness checks for other routers.

haughty parrot
#

Really appreciate the help btw

vapid shell
#

So if you turn on forwarding it turns off health checks

#

But the health checks are how failover works in multi br

#

It takes 30 minutes to fall over in that case

#

But if you turn it off I guess the Br won’t forward packets between its network and the infrastructure network

#

Oh my setup I have a macvlan container so matter isn’t in the host network

#

So it had its own Sysctl namespace

#

I think that would work here

#

If you leave it on it will work for now but might be a problem if you want to add extra brs

haughty parrot
#

Does this seem about right for a compose?

otbr:
    container_name: otbr
    network_mode: host
    stdin_open: true
    tty: true
    volumes:
      - /dev/serial/by-id/usb-Nabu_Casa_SkyConnect_v1.0_fec05b5f9114ed11bb92be8be054580b-if00-port0:/dev/ttyUSB99
    privileged: true
    image: openthread/otbr
    command: >
      --radio-url spinel+hdlc+uart:///dev/ttyUSB99
      --backbone-interface bond0
#

My host network is bond0

#

what port is the interface supposed to be at in that case? They had 80 mapped to 8080 in their run command, but I'm already running a webserver. Is there another command I can add to the end to specify web UI?

urban sierra
twin vine
#

nope?

abstract tide
#

Is there already a in-wall switch with Matter over Thread support?

marsh island
serene prawnBOT
#

@marsh island I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
marsh island
#

note the baud rate was critical to get the sky connect working for me, i also used the dedicated RCP firmware not multiprotocol

#

ok, now my question 🙂

when running OTBR on a dfferent machine than hass what is the assumption that we form the network from the OTBR UI or that we should always used home assistant to form the network?

If the latter how does one set ones own network name, keys, prefix, etc in home assistant?
(yes i hate the random name home assistant comes up with)

marsh island
haughty parrot
marsh island
#

if you are on the same machine has HA why wouldnt you just use the OTBR add-on?

haughty parrot
#

I've tried adding a matter over thread device, but it still times out while checking for network connectivity.

haughty parrot
marsh island
marsh island
haughty parrot
#

Ok worth trying the Mac vlan then

marsh island
#

(i don't know if thats important, - i am on journey of guessing until it works, lol)

#

but it is wokring 🙂

HASS OTBR Integration > pi > docker > OTBR + RCP

haughty parrot
#

I had the kernel and sysctls set on host, but looking through the logs it seems to change those, even if they are not set

marsh island
#

Oh and you have android phone right? not iOS?

haughty parrot
#

yes android/ pixel

#

I've synced credentials using the app

marsh island
#

i spent 5 hours banging my head against a wall becuase i missed in the release notes iOS doesn't work IMO they should prompt in the UI it doesn't work adding matter thread devices on iOS

#

and I use 'working loosely' it seems the aqara sensor drops offline and stops reporting in after a few hours - a press of the button on it seems to fix that

haughty parrot
#

I'm not positive my matter-server is working correctly. The last line in the logs is "Saving vendor info to storage." And then nothing even when adding a device. I've tried wiping storage and downloading a fresh image, but I suppose that is a topic for another channel

marsh island
#

yeah, i am super confused by matter add-on - are you using that?

haughty parrot
#

Using the HA python matter server in a docker container

#

(also with host networking)

#

:stable tag

marsh island
#

I haven’t tried that because I am able to use the add on.

#

But I saw little to nothing in the logs that helped me when I was trying to figure out issues. What I did find is once otbr is setup correctly home assistant will auto discover it and then add everything that’s needed.

#

So for example I formed a network on the otbr webui AND then that showed up in hass with minimal effort.

#

My reading of the docs is mdns needs to be working and if not using native IPv6 on your lan you need the nat64 working perfectly

haughty parrot
#

OTBR was discovered and I used http://localhost:8081 to connect and then set the preferred border router in the thread integration

#

All my devices have ipv6 addresses and work great. Even my piholes have dns6

marsh island
#

Yes but that doesn’t mean end to end networking connectivity from the device you are including to the matter server is working….

haughty parrot
#

wpan0 is created on the host machine and shows it's connected in the OTBR logs

marsh island
#

glad to meet another 'full IPv6' person 🙂

#

everything i did is logged at that github discussion hope that helps in some way

#

i still havent figured out how to get the container to form the network at start without having to do it by hand (and I am unclear what the right expectation of mine is) it seems the created the docker container for limited testing and not production use - hence why the hass team forked it - i need to look at more of their changes....

haughty parrot
#

I will for sure be reading through that

marsh island
#

and i haven't figured out why my aqara device eventually goes offline - and hitting the button on it makes all work again (i see folks saying they get the RCP going offline and all devices dissapear - i wonder if thats the same as i see, and its not really the sky connect RCP going offline but something else)

#

the aqara device is my only device at the moment, lol

haughty parrot
#

mine too aqara P2 contact sensor

hasty prism
#

I have two SkyConnects and would like to run two separate (hardware) Thread instances; not two distinct Thread networks (which is where I am now) but having the two OTBRs mesh like my Homepods. Any bread-crumbs?

twin vine
#

How are you planning on setting it up? Like no reason it won’t work at all

hasty prism
#

Exactly - two different hosts. One my "big" x86, the second a raspi to do some sensor / gpio stuff.

#

I can't get the two Skyconnect Thread nets to combine.

twin vine
#

you can acess the OTBR gui for both? (should be ip:8080 by default)

hasty prism
#

Yep.

#

ha-thread-722a is the one with all the devices (the first card, on the Pi), home-assistant (on the x86) only sees itself as the lead router, no devices.

fallen shard
haughty parrot
#

you'll know it's working right if on the second sync you get "Home Assistant and this device use the same network"

quaint osprey
#

All new Apple devices has Thread radio built in

#

iMacs, iPads, iPhones and more

#

But why? How Thread is useful on iPhone 15? I can’t use it now

rich river
vapid shell
#

yeah i think there are some cool non iot use cases for it

#

e.g. non cellular ipad could sleep with wifi off, but still get push notifications over a much lower power channel

#

i think replacing bluetooth for p2p stuff is a good shout

marble perch
#

would be particularly neat for a smart watch type thing, i think, where it could talk to a phone on the go, but join a network with other devices at home.

twin vine
#

I could see this replacing a Bluetooth connection in the Apple Watches (phone to watch communication)

rich river
#

Advantage also being that it’s mesh, so if you have a bunch of Apple devices you could potentially get significantly better range than with BT, and with much lower power than WiFi

solemn needle
#

When I try to use Skyconnect on my HA yellow with multi-protocol all my Thread devices are disconnecting, as soon as I remove Zigbee (multi-protocol) again Thread works very well and stable. Currently I have 19 connected Thread devices, mostly Eve and Aqara. Has anyone tried already to use the Skyconnect dongle with a HA yellow device? I hope to use the internal radio for Thread and the dongle for Zigbee with higher performance because the radio will not switch all the time between the protocols. Please tell me it works ...

vast sierra
#

So the sky connect repo was archived, and a new one was made?

Is multiprotocol being cut?

vast sierra
#

I'm waiting for innovelli so ship matter switches so I can remove the only zibgee switch I have and swap to thread only.

#

Multiprotocol has been a bummer

#

Are you able to push the thread only firmware and maintain your device connections?

marble perch
twin vine
#

basically it just relys on upstream patches (aka silicon labs) and they seem to have cut back on most of it as well now

#

as kepstin said, you are so much better getting 2 seprate dongles (one for thread and another for zigbee)

twin vine
quaint osprey
#

I have a Dongle E at same Thread mesh network as my HomePods.

If I force it to change channel, HomePods would move to new channel too?

twin vine
#

Maybe? I doubt tho

half bluff
quaint osprey
#

Well. I tested it and it seems to have worked.

sick swan
#

From what I understand, these type of data are managed by the Thread leader, which any router device in the Thread network can be. Afaik, any border router can ask the Thread leader to update these common network data, and the whole network will follow.

half bluff
fickle mantle
#

I have an HA instance with OTBR and its Thread network #1 (its been running for more than a year now). I now have a second HA instance with OTBR and its autocreated Thread network #2. HA instance #2's Thread Integration sees both OTBR/Thread networks #1 and #2 with none preferred, but apparently it has not pulled in the dataset from OTBR/Thread network #1, so it doesn't offer the user an option to make #1 the preferred. So for a HA/OTBR Instance #2, how does one make OTBR/Thread network #1 the preferred network?

sick swan
# fickle mantle I have an HA instance with OTBR and its Thread network #1 (its been running for ...

You can manually add the dataset to your HA instance #2. On HA instance #1, go to the Thread integration page, press the Info symbol on the Thread network #1, copy the long string behind "Active dataset TLVs:". Then go to HA instance #2's Thread integration page, and press the three dot menu on the top right, and click on "Add dataset from TLV". With that, you should have the same dataset available in both instances. Now you can mark this Thread network from instance #1 as the preferred on your instance #2 as well, and finally make the OTBR of your second instance use that preferred network.

buoyant kettle
#

Morning all, I'm not sure what firmware I'm even using if any at all for Skyconnect. ```
otbr-agent[175]: [NOTE]-AGENT---: Radio URL: spinel+hdlc+uart:///dev/ttyUSB0?uart-baudrate=115200
otbr-agent[175]: [NOTE]-AGENT---: Radio URL: trel://enp0s3
otbr-agent[175]: [NOTE]-ILS-----: Infra link selected: enp0s3
otbr-agent[175]: [INFO]-NCP-----: OpenThread log level changed to 5
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:02.351 [D] P-RadioSpinel-: Sent spinel frame, flg:0x2, iid:0, tid:0, cmd:RESET
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:02.352 [D] P-RadioSpinel-: Wait response: tid=0 key=0
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:04.354 [W] P-RadioSpinel-: Wait for response timeout
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:04.354 [I] P-RadioSpinel-: RCP self reset successfully
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:04.354 [D] P-RadioSpinel-: Sent spinel frame, flg:0x2, iid:0, tid:1, cmd:PROP_VALUE_GET, key:PROTOCOL_VERSION
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:04.354 [D] P-RadioSpinel-: Wait response: tid=1 key=1
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:06.356 [W] P-RadioSpinel-: Wait for response timeout
otbr-agent[175]: 49d.19:01:06.357 [C] P-RadioSpinel-: Failed to communicate with RCP - no response from RCP during initialization

upbeat cairn
buoyant kettle
#

OTBR is what is being used here. the device shows up as ttyUSB0 and the detected as cp210x but some reason can't go any further.

upbeat cairn
#

The default baudrate of the addon is 460800, not 115200. I suggest you uninstall it and re-install it to reset the settings in case something else was modified.

serene prawnBOT
#

@buoyant kettle I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
upbeat cairn
#

@buoyant kettle Interesting. Are you using a SkyConnect? Is this with a VM?

buoyant kettle
#

Yep, on Synology and I've passthrough.

upbeat cairn
#

There was a bad batch of SkyConnects produced that don't have the serial chip programmed. You can fix this yourself if you add the addons-development repo and install the SkyConnect CP2102N Programmer addon. It'll fix the info after you run the addon. Once you plug the SkyConnect back in, it should appear properly and the Thread addon will install the right firmware.

buoyant kettle
polar thunder
#

so i have a Skyconnect already. i initially bought it to use as a thread border router but eventually made it a zigbee coordinator and settled on using my roommates' homepods as thread border routers
this is mighty inconvenient. i don't have an apple device so anytime i want to add a thread device i have to commandeer their iphone to do anything.
so i'm open to buying a second skyconnect to use as a thread border router but i want it to be able to interface with the existing homepod thread network. is that currently possible now?

  • is it currently possible to share thread credentials between apple border routers and other border routers?
  • once i do that can i then commission new devices from my android phone and still have everything work with the existing apple-based network?
#

or even better, is there a way to commission on an android device to a homepod-based thread network and skip having to buy another dongle entirely? i'm guessing no because apple doesn't like playing ball. (also assume i do not want to use multiprotocol given how dicey that whole thing has been)

fickle mantle
#

@sick swan Thanks! That worked! On the HA/OTBR #2: I now have Thread #1 as preferred and OTBR #2 added to it (so have Thread#1 as only Thread Network). I have a question out of curiosity... the HA#2 now has .storage/thread.datasets with "preferred_border_agent_id": null as part of the "preferred_dataset", whereas HA#1 .storage/thread.datasets has "preferred_border_agent_id" is set to a 16B value. As I understand it, some frameworks (Android) store their credentials against a border Agent-ID, so just wondering if this will be a problem having a null preferred_border_agent_id for HA#2. Best Regards

vapid shell
polar thunder
#

...i wonder how i missed that? I think i once tried that when i was a borrowing a phone and didn't see the option. Does the phone have to be the "owner" of the homekit or something? Or so long as i have admin privileges i should be able to do it?

#

Gonna have to commandeer an iPhone soon anyways because the rest of the itoddlers in the house are definitely gonna wanna use home key with the new lock, I'll check again while I'm at it

sick swan
fickle mantle
#

Yeah I will eventually remove instance #1 (its my experimental HA) and only run instance #2 (my production HA), so eventually I will want to use only instance #2.

#

I've been using Android for commissioning, but I want to start using iOS whenever I can figure out how to import the credentials into the iPhone keychain

sick swan
#

Just mark the OTBR of your second instance as preferred border router (by using "Use router for Andorid + iOS credenitals"

fickle mantle
#

I was wondering about that... Thanks 🙂

flat drum
#

I was just about to add a thread device to my HA, and realized my thread certificate on my companion app is gone on ios. When I go to Settings->Companion App->Debug->Thread alls I see is a header named "Thread Credentials" and an empty screen. Anyone else see that?

marsh island
#

I hadn't got around to seeing how to persist data from the docker container to reform the network if the container was destroyed and recreated
i was pretty surprised when i destroyed the container and then repulled it and restarted it, my thread network came back up
I am unclear if home assistant was doing this or if something was stored on the RCP? does anyone know
the only thing that changed was the on-mesh prefix, it didn't pick the OTBR default of fd11:22:: but rather something in fd21:6e70:: - i don't know where it got this form as my original on-mesh prefix was 2600:redacted:redacted::
so question - is there a way to get home assistant to set the on-mesh prefix via the OTBR integration (not addon)?

marble perch
#

There shouldn't be any reason to care about the on mesh prefix. Are you having an issue?

flat drum
sick swan
#

iOS support is around the corner 😅

twin vine
whole musk
#

I will also say upon restarting the matter server thread_credentials_set seems to reset to false as well.

sick swan
#

Your Android phone does a full Matter commissioning flow on it's own, before doing a Matter on-network sharing with the target controller (Home Assistant in this case). This means your Android phone sets up the Thread part via Bluetooth, before HA is doing an IP only commissioning.

The consequence of that is that the Matter server doesn't need thread credentials at all. But your phone needs. This currently needs manual syncing: On your Android phone, select Settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting, then select Sync Thread credentials.

See step 3 of https://www.home-assistant.io/integrations/thread#case-1-making-home-assistant-your-first-thread-network

whole musk
#

crap well f me

#

number of hours I spent trying things and now I find out reading the basics is a requirement

#

sorry for the stupidity and wasting your time, seems 2 is as high as I count. Thanks so much.

marsh island
#

I am using a separate instance of OTBR docker

If i tear down the container and start it again i don't get my thread network back until i remove the OTBR integration and then re-add it using the URL - then it seems to issue the form via API to the OTBR container. Stopping and starting either the OTRBR integration is not good enough - it has to be removed and re-added it. Is this a known issue / something hass just accounts for when running its forked version of OTBR docker?

marsh island
#

Q: is there any reason i couldn't run the hass OTBR docker container on a seperate pi instead of the official OTBR docker container?

marsh island
sick swan
marsh island
#

thanks, any additional parameters / envars it supports via docker compose i should known about?

marsh island
sick swan
marsh island
# sick swan Did the container maybe loose its state? Not sure where it stores the state, may...

yeah great question - see my musings and discoveries at https://github.com/orgs/openthread/discussions/10311 if you are intereted - seems it doesn't store state on the official container so you have to reform manually if not using hass, for hass it seems the thread integration stores the network details (shame its not configurable) and when one recreated the container and readd the OTBR integration it passes the state ot the container and reforms - which is neat, but not reliable if container fails - hass doesn't seem to reform as it didn't know the container went down

#

if i really have to, i will do some PRs for the official OTBR container (to create proper state stores, add web port change etc, but its a lot of work i would prefer not to do, lol) their approach is to pass prameters intro the entrypoint script - but is so elegant its clumsy and useless in the real world

#

i need to take a deeper look at the hass version and see what they added / changed

sick swan
sick swan
marsh island
#

ooh i love that it has a data store

sick swan
#

I'll look into the discussion tomorrow, it's late here 😴

marsh island
#

yup only 4pm here, should be working, this is more fun

marsh island
vagrant arrow
#

running the openthread/otbr:latest docker image it doesn't seem to save my networks across restarts. Anyone know where it saves that info off to so I can volume mount it?

marsh island
#

in theory one could make it save sate but it would also need to use ot-ctl to issue commands - tl;dr the official docker container wasn't designed to do much more that isolated work

#

i just came up with another approach suggesed by the OTBR add-on devs

#
  1. run ser2net on the remote machine where the RCP is
  2. connect the OTBR addon to that RCP
  3. matter and otbr inegration as normal
#

i just got this working 🙂

#

i have no idea if it will be reliable redirecting serial across my LAN.....

marsh island
#

Q: give this statement from the TBR foundation, does anyone know why the hass implementation turned off mDNS?
"OTBR registers a _meshcop._udp service named OpenThread BorderRouter. This service is configured in the OTBR CMakeLists.txt file. The Thread Specification requires Thread Border Routers to publish the _meshcop._udp service for the Thread Border Agent service"

vagrant arrow
marsh island
#

oh to be clear its posisble the hass otbr container stores some state (though i don't know what that would be as the integration seems to be responsible for forming the network)

#

the offical one does store some state, but it is for while it is running, I know where it is stored (aka across many files in different locations) but didn't go deeper

#

u r not crazy, i spent a couple of days banging my head against the same wall last week

#

also note, there is satatement from the homeassitant folks not to use the multipan firmware as it doesn't work properly - maybe someone can tell us if that is right

#

https://www.home-assistant.io/skyconnect/ "current state" questions - this made me steerclear, i already had a working zigbee stick so decided to use my skyconnect as dedicated RCP - YYMV has i never tried the multi protocol stuff

unreal cobalt
#

Hello,
For my masters thesis, We've made a honeypot with a Matter over Thread and WiFi network using homeassistant. I would like to know if some people in here would be down to try and attack that network. We are not aware if a lot of attacks can be done remotely but if any of you have some expertise in the field to even help us try to attack it locally and could assist us in creating such attacks, that would be huge.
Thanks a lot

vagrant arrow
tough prairie
#

I have setup an Eve shutter switch on the Apple homepod so the Thread network is active. I then removed it from the Home app and it is discovered by HA but it always tries to reach it via Bluetooth so the connection times out. Any idea how I can force the comms via Thread?

vapid shell
#

When it’s discoverable by HA, restart Ha. And if it’s still trying to connect via Bluetooth then it’s not discoverable on your LAN with zeroconf

#

You can use a zeroconf browser to check for _hap._udp

tough prairie
#

interesting, it is discovered now but although I removed it from Apple home it still says this device is connected to a different home

#

According to the guides the device just needs to be removed and that unpairs it. Well well ...

#

I can see the device with the zeroconf browser but not sure if that would tell me anything

vapid shell
#

Well it’s still on thread for one thing

#

Eve devices have a habit of not cleanly removing from apple home

#

Especially battery powered ones

#

Connecting by Bluetooth and then telling it to switch to thread (the other method in the docs) works well in that case

tough prairie
#

Yes, I did this before and it works. The downside: you can only train them (blinds position) with the Eve App

#

So this is a bit stuck when I can't pair it to Apple first and then remove it

#

This training thingy seems to be vendor specific

safe quarry
#

I bought an Aqara M3 hub and set it up with matter. I imported the credentials of the network but I also bought an Apple TV. I disconnected the Aqara hub but I can’t seem to get rid of the network name generated by Aqara. I now have a AqaraHome-1ab2 network with the Apple TV as border router as preferred network. How can I actually reset or change this network name?

sick swan
#

Hm, so you are saying the Apple TV BR is using the Aqara Thread network? I guess you've used the Aqara app on iOS which imported these credentails to the Apple Keychain? 🤔

#

Not sure if you can remove that from the keychain, maybe uninstalling the Aqara App helps? But you'd still need to reset the Apple TV BR somehow, I guess.

digital salmon
#

Yeah, remove the Aqara TBR from current, delete the Aqara app and reset the AppleTV should do the trick. If you are a Mac user, you maybe can delete the thread credentials from the keychain. But I never tried it.

echo crag
#

Hi! I cant seem to find a way to run multiprotocol on my Aeotec Zi-Stick.

polar thunder
#

hi so i did bop into someone's iphone and set the homepod as the preferred thread network in home assistant. when i then go onto my android phone, i don't get "sync credentials", i get "import credentials" as an option. the homepod is the only thread border router in the house and i never had a nest or whatever. what gives?

sick swan
#

The sync credentials option is in the Compagnion App settings

polar thunder
#

.....oooooh

#

wait do you mean the menu in the settings called "Companion app"?

#

oh in troubleshooting

#

i gotta stop skimming the documentation

sick swan
#

Did it work?

polar thunder
#

yeah, the one hiccup when adding a thread device is the commissioning process still choked because i was on a 5ghz network

marsh island
#

(of course saying it is reliable is fatal last words, but the aqara sensor hasnt disappeared in 48 hours and the mesh survives full home assitant reboots)

marsh island
# safe quarry I bought an Aqara M3 hub and set it up with matter. I imported the credentials o...

only way i found was with a full reset; with home assistant it seems to generate an arbitray name if you have no network and one its set its hardcode. i was lucky i setup my network on OTBR with my own name and other TLV data, once home assiatnt saw that once it applies to whatever new border router i introduce - for example i swapped from the otbr container to the addon-otbr container and all my network details survived with the exception of the on-mesh prefix. I am hoping down the line the thread and otbr integrations let us change settings. for now it picked up your aqar border router name and store it (i think)

safe quarry
tired juniper
#

@crude willow have the eve motionblind curtain tracks been delayed was showing may 2024 now on a suppliers website October 2024?

crude willow
serene prawnBOT
#

@ionic plaza I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
twin vine
#

vn being OpenThread lmao

ionic plaza
#

Interesting, Tuya uses open thread that’s not open lol

spring bramble
crude willow
#

As usual

eager fern
#

Hello, I would like your help to know how I can get the info of this product: https://amzn.eu/d/9SxZv7x, It’s ble and I don’t have thread and I don’t know if I ll start a thread mesh (I already got a full zigbee home).

Donyou think it’s worth it to invest in thread of I already got 70 zigbee product and not any expect this one thread product. thanks

twin vine
#

i mean, i dont know how reliable they are, but that price aint cheep

twin vine
#

there is surly something similar that some zigbee vendor offers?

eager fern
#

I got a good price ^^’

vapid shell
#

please don't ask the same question in multiple channels at the same time

eager fern
#

it’s more related to should I go and start a mesh network in parallel of my zigbee network and how to integrate a device using bluetooth. I m stuck between both choices

vapid shell
#

do you have a homepod mini? or any google nest products?

eager fern
#

I have a google nest hub stored in a drawer because it’s useless and never understand any of my command

#

but it’s a big product just to use it to connect with a small device like that.

#

or maybe it’s possible to hack it and reuse it somehow with HA ?

vapid shell
#

just trying to work out if you had a thread mesh without realising.

#

lots of people have turned up here to set up their first thread device and they have lots of homepods so they already have a really good thread mesh by accident

#

if you don't lets stick to your duplicate q in #bluetooth-archived, bluetooth support is better than thread support for homekit and you are going to have to buy stuff either way.

#

especially for battery powered "sleepy" devices

eager fern
#

I now I can buy a lot of thread devices in second hand on amazon warehouse, but yeah most of the lights and socket to be used as routeur are already installed

twin vine
#

realistically, if you do have your nest hub being used, that might be alright as long as you dont get massive channel overlap

vapid shell
#

i wouldn't touch 2nd hand thread devices at this stage.

eager fern
#

it’s 1 year it is been sitting there unplugged xD

vapid shell
#

unless you study up on what chips each device uses and understand the risks etc first

#

and i wouldn't buy HomeKit over Thread at any price point

#

other than to use with bluetooth

eager fern
#

but you never know if someone found a way to flash it for something else. I would love to add a HA dashboard on

vapid shell
#

i don't understand, are you buying stuff from amazon and hoping someones flashed something else onto it already? or are you hoarding it in case someone comes up with a way?

eager fern
twin vine
#

you wont be able to flash it

eager fern
#

the cast work with the touchscreen, I always tought it was only for video

#

Ok I ll look into it

twin vine
#

haha yeah its touchscreen

eager fern
#

Now I should do a dedicated nice looking dashboard for it 🙂
I ll definitely plug back this bricks

#

I come here to find cooper and I found gold

abstract tide
#

Does someone know a wall switch (or relay) based on Thread?

#

I love the Sonoff Minir4/MiniR4m, but it's wifi 😦

spring bramble
abstract tide
#

Thanks!

sly mirage
crude willow
#

But not matter yet.

tired surge
# crude willow But not matter yet.

Alongside Bluetooth,* Eve Light Switch *supports Thread. This technology makes your smart home network more responsive, robust, and increases its reach – the only thing you need is HomePod mini or Apple TV 4K (2nd generation, 3rd generation 128 GB). As a router node, Eve Light Switch relays other Thread accessories’ data packets and enhances the stability and reach of your smart home.

tired surge
abstract tide
tired surge
abstract tide
#

😦

crude willow
#

But soon I think they will have matter for that one.

crude willow
vapid shell
tired surge
crude willow
ionic plaza
#

What could be the cause of thread devices working in HA but being unresponsive from time to time in Apple Home/ST? I removed otbr (skyconnect) from the network but it doesn’t change much

bronze fog
covert flare
covert flare
sly mirage
digital salmon
#

Wasn’t there any discussion/information that the EVE Light Switch should get the new Matter firmware this quarter? I do not find the discussion, but if remember right, it was here in the Home Assistant discord.

hybrid geyser
#

Hi all,

I have a HA setup with proxmox, everything is installed as an addon (matter server and OpenThread Border Router).
It's failing to add matter devices using android or ios companion app.

Any ideas?

shell locust
#

Hey all,

I have a Raspberry Pi 4 running HAOS, and I realize that in order for my Nanoleaf Essentials lights to be integrated, I need a Thread border router.

Rather than buying another Google Nest Hub (I have the old gen :c), I was thinking of containerizing HA, and then creating my own OpenThread border router.

Does anybody here have any experience doing this?

fiery nimbus
#

umm, why not just install the tbr addon

shell locust
#

I looked into this, don't I need to get a Thread radio dongle for this to work?

fiery nimbus
#

You'll need one regardless

shell locust
#

Any recommendations? 🙂

fiery nimbus
#

The one in the linked directions

#

Connect ZBT-1

shell locust
#

Awesome, thanks!

twin vine
#

doing it on android is the easiest

#

settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting, then Sync Thread credentials.

sick swan
#

I need to check if we can do this automatically again.

#

At one point it just took forever essentially 😢

twin vine
#

haha yeah, it would fix most of the issues people come here/on the forums for

#

(if they have the "full" DIY route)

sick swan
#

Initially we did a full sync every time, whcih meant also reading the credentials. This also lead to a pop-up.

#

I think a good compromise is just setting the Thread credentials when there is a preferred one set on HA side.

shell locust
# fiery nimbus Connect ZBT-1

Where can I find the linked directions? I don't see it pinned in the channel. 😅

And, on the website for it, it mentions how "We will soon add Thread support". Does it currently support it?

fiery nimbus
shell locust
ionic plaza
#

Anyone tried using dongle e with the recent version of OTBR add-on? Will it automatically flash ot-rcp firmware?

sick swan
#

It should, but haven't tried 🙂

twin vine
#

you gotta restart the add-on to get it to prompt the flash yeah?

sick swan
#

It just invokes the universal silabs flasher in the background, but yeah only on startup.

twin vine
#

@ionic plaza sus, should of worked

ionic plaza
#

It didn’t recognize my dongle and skipped the flashing phase 😂

#

I tested two dongles used one and another branding new one

twin vine
#

you set the usb port in the config settings for it yeah?

ionic plaza
#

Yea

#

They work well after I flashed them via command tool

sick swan
ionic plaza
#

I have two dongle e

sick swan
#

Also make sure the config "Automatically flash firmware" is set

#

It will only flash if there is an actual update, afaik.

#

But if that is all met, and doesn't work, feel free to create an issue report in the repo linked above. Attach the startup log of the add-on if you do.

ionic plaza
#

Yes I did toggle it on but it didn’t see firmware for it, let me open an issue with logs attached

#

I bought one for testing when I noticed the automatic flashing support for it 😆

sick swan
#

Why did you choose it over SkyConnect/ZBT-1? It also has automatic flashing capabilities 😉

twin vine
#

we both own one, dont worry about that 😛

#

just that nabu dont make one with a external antenna, for those more spacious deployments

silent gate
#

Hi all! (i'm back for those who were helping previously). I am trying to get a thread / matter setup working and am struggling because I have a Nest PAN thread network showing in integrations but it says there is no border router. I have now removed all Nest Hubs from my wifi system and removed/re-added the integration but I'm still seeing this non-working thread network. Is there some way to manage/disable this network? Note I have a second thread network with a dongle which has an OTBR setup on it.

sick swan
#

You can't delete it right now because it is your preferred network. You need to make a different Thread network the primary one, then you can delete it.

#

Hm, I see you don't have the credentials of that other network. So you can't make it primary. In that case, there is currently no way to delete the primary. You need to have the credentails of another network.

silent gate
#

How do I get the credentials? I created it via a home assistant addon (it's a sonoff dongle), so I should be able to get the credentials?

silent gate
#

nevermind for now...I fully removed everything thread/matter related and restarted and reinstalled the addon I now see something different so will see if I can sync the new credentials down. Odd thing is it's still called Nest PAN but has an open border router (which must be the sonoff I just setup since all google stuff is off)

silent gate
#

Wohoo! it's all working. No idea why I have this ghost google PAN network name though..

languid ridge
#

So I have a dongle e and it was working but I migrated my vm from vmware to hyper v. Alas, hyper V does not support pass through.
Other than proxmox, what are my options? Is there a way to run the otbr on the windows host? The docker container set up I found seems to be specifically for Linux.

I thought my gen 2 alexa echo show would work now but it doesn't seem to. Adding my p2 aqara sensor only seems to detect rhe neighbours google nest network

#

Is there a decent ethernet border router?

languid ridge
modern root
#

So I already have a Thread network setup with HA and also a nest hub, is there a way to make an AppleTV join that same network

vapid shell
#

No. You can do it the nether way around, though.

ionic plaza
sick swan
languid ridge
modern root
modern root
#

NM uninstalling the addon and installing it again magically had it join

ionic plaza
#

You can get network key from their apps; In your OTBR webUI join network using the key

modern root
#

So that's nice

#

now I just need to figure how to get the nest hub to join the apple network

twin vine
modern root
#

yeah just did that, but it just created a NEST-HUB network

twin vine
#

And set it up with the credentials (aka set it up on iOS with the Apple credentials in your keychain)

#

How many nest devices?

modern root
#

just one

twin vine
#

It should ask to access your local network

#

What are you setting it up on?

modern root
#

android, I can redo it with an iPhone it thats better

#

actually I take it back, the nest recreated/joined my old "home-assistant" network

#

despite me factory resetting it, and even OTBR is in the apple net now

modern root
#

cleared google play services data, factory reset again and now google is at least in a NEST-HUB-... network, but it didnt join the existing one even though I imported thread credentials from the HA app before setting it up

#

ok actually after waiting a few more minutes, it joined the apple created one, huzzah

twin vine
#

Haha yeah, it can take a bit to “learn” the credentials from the existing BR’s, perks of thread 1.3

vapid shell
fallen shard
#

i deleted google play cache but still can't add a device using matter over thread, it gets stuck in checking connectivity, however it works on other android phones
does anyone know how to solve this?

foggy saffron
#

Hi there,
after all this time (12/2023) i am still trying to add a Thread+Matter device (Aquara P2) to my (still new, because not in use) HomeAssistant Green using the Android Companion app. Is there any update in the OTBR and Matter functionality for adding new devices?
I can not find any problem in my setup that i could fix. Still not been able to add any Thread+Matter device to Home Assistant. Tried with every new Update at least two times.
Does somebody know a way to get HA working as only OTBR? I realy dont want to buy some cloud dependend smart speaker device as OTBR just to add my smart home devices to my Thread network.

twin vine
foggy saffron
#

Yes i am using the skyconnect dongle and flashed it with thread firmware following the documentarion
I have never used zigbee or multiprotocol with it

twin vine
foggy saffron
#

Yes

twin vine
#

settings > Companion app > Troubleshooting, then Sync Thread credentials.

#

Do this, then try to pair

#

Obv make sure the P2 is in pairing mode and you are near the dongle and the end device

livid sluice
#

Hi guys! Does anyone know how to remove Thread credentials from iOS keychain and from Android?

foggy saffron
foggy saffron
sick swan
#

Can you share the Matter Server add-on logs after an attempt?

foggy saffron
# sick swan Can you share the Matter Server add-on logs after an attempt?

Logs from Matter Addon

2024-06-20 01:18:19.374 (MainThread) WARNING [FabricAdmin] Allocating new controller with CaIndex: 1, FabricId: 0x0000000000000002, NodeId: 0x000000000001B669, CatTags: []
2024-06-20 01:18:19.854 (Dummy-2) CHIP_ERROR [chip.native.DL] Long dispatch time: 476 ms, for event type 2
2024-06-20 01:18:19.883 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.device_controller] Loaded 0 nodes from stored configuration
2024-06-20 01:18:19.911 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.vendor_info] Loading vendor info from storage.
2024-06-20 01:18:19.933 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.vendor_info] Loaded 203 vendors from storage.
2024-06-20 01:18:19.934 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.vendor_info] Fetching the latest vendor info from DCL.
2024-06-20 01:18:20.233 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.vendor_info] Fetched 208 vendors from DCL.
2024-06-20 01:18:20.233 (MainThread) INFO [matter_server.server.vendor_info] Saving vendor info to storage.
serene prawnBOT
#

@foggy saffron I converted your message into a file since it's above 15 lines :+1:

📎 message.txt
foggy saffron
#

There is no message in ether matter nor OTBR logs when trying to connect a new device.
After never seeing a log message for a successfull connect but only different problems, im not sure if this is a good or a bad sign.
Also im not familiar with HA Logs because i have never used HA before my Thread+Matter attempt.

twin vine
#

And have both your HA machine and your phone got working IPv6

foggy saffron
# twin vine No vlan’s in your network?

There is a vlan but not visible for HA. Also all devices that are used are in the same vlan and subnet (wifi, lan).
Both hosts (HA green and phone) have been assinged IPv6 adresses. I have never tried to connect to HA via IPv6...?

#

Phone can also see mdns service _home-assistant._tcp

foggy saffron
# foggy saffron There is no message in ether matter nor OTBR logs when trying to connect a new ...

After looking into the settings again i got the idea to activate debug logs again. Now its possible to see something, so the OTBR is at least talking to somebody. Matter Addon instead shows nothing when trying to connect a new device. Also nothing in both logs that says error/problem/somethings wrong. Is there a way to download a complete logfile from HA? Always getting about 100 lines and thats not even one connect attempt with retries.

foggy saffron
twin vine
#

The initial steps when pairing with matter is over Bluetooth, you should atleast see something in the logs

#

Do you factory reset the device between attempts?

shell locust
#

Installed the Skyconnect, still cannot get these smart lights to connect!

twin vine
#

And what smart lights are you trying to connect?

shell locust
#

Yes, and the Nanoleaf Essentials GU10 smart bulbs

twin vine
#

What firmware version are the bulbs?

shell locust
#

3.6.196

twin vine
#

iOS or android?

shell locust
#

Both.

foggy saffron
twin vine
#

nah i mean the P2

#

the door sensor

foggy saffron
#

done that a few times

#

actualy - because it never worked, i cant know if its a HA problem or maybe a problem of the P2 sensor

#

maybe somewhere is some documentation which shows how the logs should look like?

livid sluice
fickle mantle
shell locust
ionic plaza
#

Is there any trick to get Nest TBR join existing Apple/HA network? I tried syncing credentials to HA/Android both on iOS and Android, setting it up on the two platforms but no luck so far

vapid shell
#

Pretty sure there is because it’s glitchy and we’ve talked about the glitchy ness before

#

(You seemingly end up with google and apple both thinking they own the network and the name changes every night between the Google and Apple one 😅)

ionic plaza
#

I got like 9 tbrs now, five of them are in a single network

vapid shell
#

I would have thought resetting the nest and setting it up on iOS would do the job, or resetting the nest and google play services, then importing the thread credentials, then setting up the nest (this will reset google pay) might do it

ionic plaza
#

So will this apply to Alexa Echo? Or amazon never join apple/google

vapid shell
#

No idea on the echo

#

The play step is super important - the nest ecosystem is clingy

ionic plaza
dry hinge
#

Is it possible using the OTBR add-on to use as the RCP an esp32h2 , and if so kindly point me to a guide/instructions

ionic plaza
ionic plaza
dry hinge
# ionic plaza There’s a S3-H2 board with official guide for 1.3 OTBR

I assume you are referring to the espressif dev board with onboard esp32s3 and onboard esp32h2 , i have built that using basic_thread_border_router flashed it and formed a thread network , the HA Thread integration sees it , i have added the TLV so it sees it as a border router but any attemot to add an Onvis S4 matter over thread plug using the HA companinon on my iphone just shows "you must have a Thread Border Router" , i tested the S4 plug. at a friedns who has a google nest and plug works three , any ideas ?

delicate drum
#

You can also use zero code to make an H2 a matter over thread light. Repeating too.

sick swan
dry hinge
#

thx , i will give it a try

twin vine
#

Heh dope! There is an actual button now

sick swan
#

Oh, forgot to mention, that requires 2024.7.0bx!

#

@dry hinge 👆

sick swan
ionic plaza
#

There’s a crucial step said joining iOS network

dry hinge
sick swan
#

Yes, HA Core.

tame ledge
#

Hello Everyone... I recently bought a Xiaomi Smart Standing Fan 2 Pro.. I tried to integrate it to HA with sissy integration but it doesnt seem to work.. I only can control it through Mi Home app from my android and also from the Bluestacks simulator from my windows PC but it isnt so much handy, i cannot customize and add automations for it. Anyone can help me with this thing?

serene prawnBOT
#

@tame ledge Please do not cross post. Read the channel description, post it and wait for folks to respond. Crossposting wastes people's time as they're unaware of the help you're getting elsewhere.

If you don't get any responses after an hour or more, and your message is no longer on screen, it is fine to re-post or post a link to it.

shell locust
#

I'm going to reset my smart bulbs and see if that does anything, but I'm stumped as to why they won't connect.

ionic plaza
#

If u don't like SL chipset, Nordic has a dongle

spring bramble
#

Yes, use existing Border routers from apple or Google - HA can just leverage the existing thread network (or manage the credentials to form one big one).

shell locust
#

I’m using the SkyConnect dongle

shell locust
#

I was able to get it working ☺️

somber isle
#

Hey! I am trying to add a Thread device using a Conbee II stick flashed with Thread firmware, OTBR and Matter. Have tried and tried but get nowhere. My Android phone is now stating "on the same network" like it should I have tried to reset my Google Play services on the phone and more. But still nothing. I only get a mesage on the phone "can´t connect to thread network ha-thread-b917".

I have enabled debug on OTBR. The device I am trying to add is a Secuya Lock https://www.secuyou.dk/products/smart-lock-matter-hojre-mc?logged_in_customer_id=&lang=en

No other Matter or Thread based devices. No other TBR (no Google, Smartthings or other, only the OTBR) in Home Assistant.

Logs: https://dpaste.org/fvvWj

Any pointers?

eager fern
#

Hello, anyone can explain me how I can start a thread network using my google nest ?
I don't have any other coordinator

eager fern
#

anyone ?

twin vine
#

yes alright so

#

are you on ios or android @eager fern ?

#

you should beable to set that as the prefered network

#

are you trying to add a matter over thread device?

eager fern
eager fern
eager fern
#

It’s my only 2 thread devices

twin vine
eager fern
twin vine
#

Rightio

eager fern
#

I didn’t know it was different regarding the concentrateur

twin vine
#

@vapid shell might be able to correct me, but I think you need some sort of thread dongle connected to your HA instance to allow HomeKit over thread stuff to connect

#

Maybe a Bluetooth dongle?

eager fern
#

I don’t know, I m maybe dumb but for me thread was working like zigbee, if something is a concentrator then every thread device can connect on it

#

I ve checked the product page on a amazon and it says ble or homekit compatible

#

but constructors never say z2m compatible on their products for zigbee device even it’s compatible.

twin vine
#

There is a few things online for how to do it

eager fern
#

so thread over homekit isn’t compatible with thread over nest or other equipment. It’s strange that every product aren’t compatible

twin vine
#

Well, it communicated directly over thread

#

Matter solves that, and it would work if it had matter firmware on it

eager fern
#

I guess it’s not, I don’t want to buy an apple concentrator for one device.

twin vine
#

Well no, you just need to buy a thread dongle

#

Like the XBT-1 or whatever it’s called (used to be the skyconnect)

normal arch
#

let's get technical terms correct in a technical support channel

vapid shell
eager fern
#

Ok I understand a bit more, I don’t have much thread device so I ll not invest today , maybe later.
however, why is the google nest not part of my thread network and it as is own network ?

#

I thinked my yale smartlock will be thread in the future and (I hope) compatible with google nest.

twin vine
#

This is a pretty good introduction to it all

#

Because thread is the transport method it uses between devices

vapid shell
#

Have personally tested using a SkyConnect, and a HomePod with that way

#

Nest should work if the thread network credentials have been imported into Ha

steady linden
#

Hey guys, I am having issues flashing SkyConnect (ZBT-1) with Thread software. I am able to use the firmware update page to flash thread but as soon as I launch OpenThread Border Router with the device selected it crashes my entire Home Assistant and I am unsure how to debug since I can’t see what happens

twin vine
#

anything in the log on boot (after crash)?

steady linden
#

I’ll check but pretty sure its empty

#

It appears to have no errors for the OTBR

#

but it does have an ‘ended unfinished session’ and ‘system could not validate that the sqlite3 database was shut down correctly’ in home assistant core, supposedly cus it crashes my system?

#

I have tried both selecting the dongle from OTBR add-on and also from the Hardware tab in settings and both still end up crashing it 😦

pine wave
#

I need help... I do not know how to pair my eve motion device to home assistant os. I run it in a vm, which uses macvlan. I have a network connection, as I can ping Home Assistant. I routed my conbee3 stick with newly flashed OTBR firmware into the vm... configured the addons inside of haos.. tried for almost 2 days now, and am unable to fix this.

rare spoke
#

@pine wave are you able to communicate with other things with that VM ? say run a mini http server (built in in php and python) and see if you access it ?

#

maybe is just wrong the network setup

pine wave
#

Don't know what this would change. I tried to sync credentials with my ipad, but I'm unable to do this. It gives me an error, currently I inspect the logs..

somber isle
spring bramble
#

The OTBR can work alone which should be fine in smaller deployments - in larger homes/deployments its better to add more BR's to the same network which is the reason many of us try to combine multiple BR's into one network

somber isle
#

Yeah I get that. 🙂 I have just bought two door locks to try out, and I have tried to pair one of the locks with the lock being 1 meter from the OTBR Conbee II stick but still I get no connection over Thread. Seems a pickle to debug ... my logs tell me diddely squat. Last step I tried was to use a 2m USB extension cable just to rule out noise interference etc.

#

Maybe I should try another Matter Thread based device. Like an Aqara motion sensor or something like that.

#

It either a new device, or another stick I think ... 😛

spring bramble
#

Well, never connect a zigbee/thread/z-wave stick directly in an usb port. There will so much interference that your signal will be destroyed. So tip 1 is to always use an extension cable.
Tip 2 is that there is only little experience with the conbee stick so you may want to try with either a ready made BR such as a (second hand) homepod mini or a SkyConnect ZBT-1 stick, as those are daily tested by us.

somber isle
#

Ok I got a Sky Connect now, I tried making a new thread network and make that default. Do I have to clear my Google Play Services data and cache to get the Settings->troubleshooting->sync thread to prompt "on the same network" ?

#

Whenever I delete Google data I need to setup my watch and wallet ++... it is a bit irritating. Now I only get the "update network from home assistant" prompt. But when I try to add a device it tries to add it to the wrong network.

vapid shell
#

Yeah nuking google play is the only way, until they fix their api

somber isle
#

Jeez....

#

At least I got it working now. Replacing the Conbee II fixed it. Sky connect it is 🤘

quiet dragon
#

Is this the right place to ask this question?

I have a HA yellow and want to set up a Thread border router. Can I connect a SONOFF ZBDongle-E to HA Yellow and create a separate (from ZHA) thread network?

manic monolith
#

Yes

royal cave
#

Hi, someone here using Nanoleaf A19 + OpenThread Border Router on SkyConnect ? I lose them regularly (became unavalaible or unknown). As soon as I restart the addon they came back. Pretty annoying... Before I used dual protocol with a ZBDongle-E and it was the same thing. Now I have a fresh dedicated network on another chanel (20 VS 15 for Zigbee and my 2.4ghz wifi fixed on 6), Skyconnect on a USB2 port but the problem still here 😦

marble perch
#

if matter bulbs, first thing to check is that the firmware is up to date. should be at least 3.6.173 for the matter stack stability fixes.

#

other than that… possible sources of network interference? try using a usb extension cable to move the stick away from any other 2.4ghz radio devices or usb 3 ports.

royal cave
#

A19 it's only homekit no ? It's homekit anyway, uptodate. I'am already using an USB extension cable. I don't think it's due to interferences. My Zigbee was rocksolid when I was using thread on the same dongle.

#

Actually have an automation that restart addon every 8 hours, will see if it helps 🤔

marble perch
#

they've discontinued the homekit bulbs, current nanoleaf A19s are only available via Matter.

royal cave
#

That sux... I'll try the matter version

#

Feedback of the matter version is horrible on reddit 😅

#

I regret my yeelight who died, expansives but stable and effects avalaible

#

Juste ordered a matter version to compare, even if I already have 3 homekit 😦

wary mountain
#

My SkyConnect just refuses to work consistently

#

Currently running the OpenThread firmware. I don't need it to do Zigbee.

#

But it doesn't seem to matter what firmware I use.

# 
[C] Platform------: Init() at spinel_driver.cpp:82: Failure
twin vine
wary mountain
twin vine
#

try turning that on, and starting it

wary mountain
#

Looking for where to do thst

twin vine
#

docker container? or HACS add on?

wary mountain
#

HAOS in a VM

#

Add-ons. Got it.

#

Doing it from the Addon may have fixed it. Amazing.

#

Been fighting with this for days. HAOS reboots. Unraod reboots. Unplugging and replugging the sky connect. Trying a different port. Messing with the USB passthrough to the VM. And this whole time I just needed to start the HA addon.

twin vine
#

unraid

#

ah god

#

well, if it works it works lol

#

a win is a win at the end of the day

wary mountain
#

Thanks for the suggestion. Really appreciate the help.

#

I think it was more that I needed to start the Addon than enabling auto flash. But it was the right area

#

I think OTBR is broken, but Silicon Labs Multiprotocol might work.

twin vine
#

multi-pan is a bit jank

#

even more than pure thread or pure zigbee

vast sierra
twin vine
#

haha yeah 😅

wary mountain
#

Going back to the OpenThread firmware. Trying to uninstall SilLabs and see if the OTBR addon will stop crashing on start.
OpenThread (RCP) SL-OPENTHREAD/2.4.0.0_GitHub-7074a43e4

upbeat cairn
#

Are you trying to run both at the same time?

wary mountain
#

No, I had multiprotocol disabled before

#

Seems odd that starting the OTBR addons doens't add the OTBR integration

languid ridge
#

Has anyone been able to get otbr running on a raspberry pi using a flashed ZBDongle-E?

#

Or do I need to just get a nRF52840?

wary mountain
#

Okay, I think I'm finally good after flashing the OTBR firmware, making sure the OTBR addon is running, and disabling the SilLabs Multiprotocol addon.

Which should be exactly where I started, but hey, things are working now.

twin vine
languid ridge
#

I've used silaslabs to flash the firmware. I should clarify though, I was able to get it to work on my HAOS on VMWare, but I decided to drop VMWare to Hyper-V, and I lost my USB passthrough ability, so I'm trying to set it up on my rpi that is doubling as a kiosk for now.
So HA is running on my Hyper-V VM

#

Either way, I ordered an nRF52840 which is supposed to arrive today. hopefully that works.

abstract tide
#

I think that I found the issue with my Thread connection problem

#

Now I only have to find the solution (:

#

Home Assistant wants the devices to be connected to the OpenThread Border Router, but Google Home keeps trying to connect them to the Google Nest

#

The Google Nest is in my parents house, so it can't reach it. Does anybody know a way to change the prefferenced router in Google Home?

languid ridge
#

Really gotta download the SDK and compile my own or something? Thought it'd be easier

twin vine
#

Unless you can find a pre-compiled build, yeah

#

Here’s the one I used, but doesn’t seem to have your dongle there

magic girder
#

I currently have an ESP32-C6 running the most recent stable OT-RCP firmware (from the IDF v5.2.2) and the OpenThreadBorderRouter add-on installed, configured and running on my HA system. I used the OTBR web interface to form a network, and the status page there appears to show it working.

If I then take a second ESP32-C6 and install their latest thread_matter_light demo firmware, this installs correctly. If I then use the HA Android App to add a matter device, and scan the supplied QR code, it seems to begin the commissioning process. It connects to the device by Bluetooth, and the log for the device shows a lot happening, but when it gets to checking network connectivity, it always fails.

As a test I tried the wifi_matter_light firmware, and although it failed twice, it succeeded on the third try, and I can control it from HA.

So I guess my question is, is this just Espressif being bad at software again, or am I doing something wrong? Is there any straightforward information about how to do this properly?

ionic plaza
#

I once used their OTBR kit (S3-H2) with HA, which works well

magic girder
ionic plaza
magic girder
ionic plaza
#

try adding it via Yes, it's already in use - other controllers this path should bypass Google or Apple, but I am not quite sure about this @spring bramble @sick swan

spring bramble
#

Only use that option to add a shared device - so put the device in "pairing mode" from another controller first

ionic plaza
spring bramble
magic girder
#

No luck unfortunately. I tried to get started almost a year ago and gave up because it was so unstable. I guess I'm right back there again. It does seem like the protocol that was supposed to simplify everything has sure made it all a lot more difficult.

#

It's very possible I'm doing something wrong, however there doesn't seem to be any clear documentation on what I should and shouldn't be doing.

#

And trying to work out what's going wrong from the logs also seems next to impossible.

random garden
#

Is there a way to determine what integration entry each Google Hub is within the Thread integration? Am looking to automate rebooting the Hubs as the devices Thread integrations disappear every now and again. I have my Hubs in Home Assistant with Device IDs, but haven't been able to extract the same information from the Thread integration once a particular hub loses it's Thread component.

spring bramble
magic girder
# spring bramble If you use one of the readibily available Thread border routers or stuck with wi...

Isn't "DIY" the entire point of HA? And I have no issues with "tinkering". I have 25 years experience in embedded development. However this current implementation makes it nearly impossible to "tinker" due to the incredibly unreliable, unpredictable behaviour it exhibits, and the near impossibility of tracing faults.
I'm a huge supporter of HA and have been a paid subscriber for years mainly as a way to support development, but this entire implementation has been far from optimal and doesn't seem to be getting better any time soon.
Telling people to just use something else also seems to be a very poor way of supporting the community.

spring bramble
#

I think that is a bit harsh as there are many people for which it works fine.

magic girder
crude willow
#

And every setup is different. If everyone here is going to ask 'he it doesn't work. What should I do?' the support is going to be crazy. Google, apple, Samsung are also not going to be helpful with these kind of situations.

#

If you want to play around with 'crazy' networks no one is holding you. But giving support for that is I think less of a priority compared to making things work for the majority of the networks. What it is intended for.

rich river
#

My 2p/2c... feel free to skip/ignore...
Consider that Thread and Matter aren't HA products, they're a much larger industry wide effort to try and standardise on a general consumer friendly solution to home automation. They're also relatively new standards which are still being worked on, and (I think a lot of people would agree) still have a long way to go before being "complete".
And while HA is playing in the Thread and Matter space, and seemingly punches way above it's weight, it's a) still constrained by what the industry as a whole is doing and what the current standards are, and b) doesn't have the resources of Apple, Google, etc. to work on all facets of support for Thread/Matter, and (in my opinion) is correctly focussing (for now) on the useful parts of getting something working for the majority of people.
That's not to say that HA won't at some point have a fully working solution which doesn't require an external TBR from Apple, Google, etc. but at this moment in time pointing people towards an external TBR, on a flat network, etc., etc., is the quickest, easiest, and most reliable of actually getting people being able to use Thread & Matter devices. If someone want's to do something different, then that's fine too, but they're really more on their own and there should be an expectation that there's going to be minimal support.

royal cave
magic girder
# rich river My 2p/2c... feel free to skip/ignore... Consider that Thread and Matter aren't H...

There's no "expectation" of "support" on my part. However the point of these forums is to ask questions. I have no expectation of a response, however I also don't expect to be told by a developer of the project to just use something else.

I also disagree somewhat with your assessment that having HA focus on focus on external BR is right approach. As I said before, HA has always been focused on "DIY" solutions, hence its major focus on the ESPHOME platform. My own opinion is that HA was developed from the start as a way of enabling DIY solutions to function in a meaningful way. If you want to use commercial, plug and play platforms then they already exist and HA is not really required. The people who have always supported HA are those that make their own solutions. That has been the driving force behind the entire product, as clearly demonstrated by the fact that HA is the second most active open source project in the world. People who just want plug-and-play don't tend to contribute to the source code of the project.

The continued "it's brand new" viewpoint is way overdue for retirement. The Thread protocol is 10 years old now. Apple released their first products 4 years ago, and they consider them stable. Matter isn't far behind. Granted there are many external issues, but there are also many issues internal to HA that could be improved. Denying these issues exist means nothing will ever be improved. Someone asking for help and pointing out these issues should not ever receive a hostile response (especially from a project developer), and being told "your on your own" goes against everything the HA community stands for.

vapid shell
#

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to say that certain options are more mature than others. It’s facts.

#

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to concentrate on what the most common areas are (for now)

#

Because of HomePods and nests we had people in here with 10 TBRs the day HA had any sort of thread support,

#

We did have regulars that had eg home brew TBRs but I haven’t seen many of them in a long time. I know the maturity of thread took a toll on some of them.

#

That means there’s a lack of volunteers to help people like you

twin vine
#

its a balancing act for effort over "reward" for matter (and its implementation over thread)

#

not many people from my knowledge actively run the espressif dev board/kit with only a single BR

#

so an even smaller sample size to get any meaningful help from

sick swan
sick swan
# magic girder Thank you. It gets a bit further now... the esp client device logs shows actual ...

You do have a bit too many unknowns, I think what I would try first is a known working Thread device, e.g. a Eve device. This validates that your Thread border router setup works correctly. Than from there, move on to custom devices.

That said, from the error "Can't connect to thread network home-assistant", two possible reasons this could happen:
a) Your phone and the Thread Border router are not on the same network/can't communicate with each other. Make sure you are on the WiFi the Thread Border router is. Also make sure that these networks are connected directly, such that link-local multicast works, and IPv6 ND packets can flow freely. Also disable mDNS reflection or similar features on your router/firewall, if you have such things, these have proven to be problematic.
b) The Thread credentials are indeed somehow messed up/not correct. Maybe start over by resettting your Thread border router, resetting the Android (method described here https://github.com/home-assistant/android/issues/4146#issuecomment-1911707074), then sync the credentials again, and try commissioning again.

magic girder
#

I've also ordered an nRF52840 dongle to try, which is supposed to be reliable with OTBR. That should eliminate one possible point of failure.

magic girder
#

I tried to commission the same device again using a brand new iphone that had never had Home Assistant app. After a fairly short time I got an error "Thread Border Router Required - To pair this accessory, your home network must include a Thread Border Router."
I've reset the border router mulitple times, but as far as I know it's installed and working as it should. I can't paste a screen shot here but this is what it looks like in my HA setup
https://ibb.co/0G8TTyP

sick swan
magic girder
#

OK, now I get "Unable to Add Accessory. Pairing Failed."

sick swan
#

Yeah not sure what that exactly means. On Android you get a bit more information during pairing at what stage the system is, so you can kinda figure it out. But not sure where it failed here.

What are you doing exactly? You try to add your device using the setup code to Home Assistant through the iOS Compagnion app?

magic girder
#

Ok, I tried again and it worked. It took a really long time this time, but now it shows as a Matter device, and I can turn it on and off. Well that's a huge improvement!

magic girder
#

So maybe the Android phone I've been using is the issue.

twin vine
#

what OS is it running?

#

and has it got full google play services?

sick swan
#

You are likey using the Test VID?

magic girder
magic girder
sick swan
#

Ok, yeah then try going through these developer console steps. It's PITA, but it actually works 😅

#

That said, it seems a bit weird to me that "Can't connect to thread network home-assistant" would appear then 🤔

magic girder
sick swan
#

The way it works things communicate through Bluetooth first, and setup a lot of things. Then the device arms a timer, and waits until the commissionier conects it through IP (the Thread network). The error seems to indicate that this step fails. Usually on the device side you will only see it waiting for a while, and then it should say something like timer expired, and go back to a idle/pairing state. So that may not really appear like an error on the device side.

magic girder
spring bramble
magic girder
#

The fact that someone else was able to immediately offer some simple suggestions that led to a really fast resolution says everything about the best parts of this wonderful community.

spring bramble
magic girder
spring bramble
#

No you are reverting things from the beginning. We're done talking. Goodbye

magic girder
# dry hinge I assume you are referring to the espressif dev board with onboard esp32s3 and o...

Hi! Just saw your message and thought my recent experiences might help. I'm currently using an ESP32-C6, flashed with the ot-rcp example available in the ESP-IDF, and I've finally been able to get another ESP32-C6 flashed with some sample device firmware working correctly. I was getting the same error message as you on an iPhone, and the critical step I was missing was to transfer the credentials, as kindly described here by flastaff321 (#thread-archived message)

#

If there's any other details I can provide that might help please ask 🙂

indigo mortar
# magic girder Strongly disagree with your assessment of the situation there. I don't believe m...

My dude, here’s what I see happening. All Marcel said was the DIY route means more tinkering and that it works for others. The quotes you are doing for words indicates a harsh tone, as well as throwing around your years of experience. You said there is no expectation of support yet insisted that Marcel help you with troubleshooting just before that. The community at large helps with troubleshooting, and they got you where you needed to be. I see this issue as now resolved.

In general when engaging here, one may feel that someone’s response was dismissive, totally fair. Instead of telling them that they are unhelpful, consider asking if they intended to be that way or if they just don’t have the help you were looking for. The other option is to just not respond and talk with the other people who are offering other suggestions. If you feel someone is being dismissive, feel encouraged to dismiss their comments without commenting yourself.

Now, let’s carry on. 😊 Dream Doctor, feel free to DM me if you want to talk about this further, but there is no need to continue this here as how people engage with each other is off topic to Thread.

tired juniper
#

Having loads of issues with my eve motion blind going unavailable most of the time rebootinging my Google hubs brings it back but now it's not

#

It's just dead

twin vine
#

Can you connect to them over the eve app?

tired juniper
#

No the thread connection I'm not using eve app it's the matter thread version

#

I've had to factory reset it to connect it back

#

It disconnects from the thread network every bloody day

twin vine
#

Have you tried it

tired juniper
#

There is no eve app for android

twin vine
#

Oh shit yeah mb 😅

tired juniper
#

😅

#

I got 4 boarder router none more than 8m from each other id have thought it wouldn't be a range issue

#

Is there anyway to see what cannel the thread is working on?

twin vine
#

Have you got any thread dongles connected to home assistant (running the OBTR add-on)?

faint siren
#

Any of you guys use a Echo 4th Gen as a TBR and how has your experience been with it so far?

#

They're discounted at Amazon for Prime subscribers. Since I sub, I'm thinking about getting one for future proofing.

#

Helps to avoid the feeling of spending even more money at once just to make that 1 device work lol.

tired juniper
sick swan
cursive creek
#

Is a moving border router, sometimes leaving the home, such a good idea?

twin vine
#

i doubt they are going to use it for that. more for a better way to communicate with other devices (like a smart watch)

#

much lower power than starting and stopping a bluetooth radio

#

oh wait they actually enabled support for thread/matter on the phone, no hub needed. interesting

spring bramble
twin vine
#

Huh dope, would be interesting to see how that turns out

spring bramble
tired juniper
spring bramble
tired juniper
#

Oh its on channel 24 so should be fine there is no 2.4ghz on channel 11 that got any good signal

#

But less than 6 hours later the blind is off the network again

spring bramble
tired juniper
#

It never used to be like this only last week it's been doing it before it might drop off once in like 3 weeks now its every couple of hours

#

It's added to home assistant

#

Yea there is lots of timeouts in matter logs

#

I got 4 boarder routers my house isn't that big the blind is only 2m from on of them starting to think this is a google issue as otherwise why would rebooting the boarder routers make it work again sometimes

#

Rebooted all 3 google boarder routers now blind works again

spring bramble
tired juniper
#

I tested before with only 1 boarder routers the furthest in house with a thread plug and was working fine in same location as blind since then I uave added 3 more boarder routers

#

If its connected to the Google router in bedroom as that's closest it would seem googles routers aren't staying connected to each other

sick swan
#

@tired juniper what I would test first is take the Nanoleaf BR out of the picture, and see if things work with just the Google BR.

#

Then one good test would be if you add it to Google Home, and see if the Motion blind stays online there. If no, this points more to a connectivity issue between the BR and the Motion blind itself.

#

Finally: What system do you run HA on? Unfortunately, Supervised has some troubles picking up routes, which is especially problematic with multiple BRs.

tired juniper
#

It's HA installed on proxmox on a nuc

sick swan
#

So HAOS? 🤔

tired juniper
#

I guess to remove nanoleaf I'd have to factory reset

#

I get so confused what the hell each version is

sick swan
sick swan
tired juniper
#

Is there a usb boarder router I can get to plug directly into HA want to keep it separate from my zigbee network stick

sick swan
#

Yes, you can use the Home Assistant Connect ZBT-1 (previously SkyConnect) and turn it into a Border Router. You need the OpenThread Border Router (OTBR) add-on on Home Assistant side. But it will offer that right after plugging in the ZBT-1.

But then: Creating a separate mesh just for HA is kinda not the point of Thread 😅 Ideally you connect all Thread border routers, but adding HA OTBR to your Nanoleaf/Google mix is unlikely to help 🙈

#

@vapid shell didn't you mention that Proxmox might be the culprit at times when it comes to IPv6 ND/Multicast issues? 🤔

vapid shell
#

It was libvirt

#

So most Linux virtualisation that’s not qemu

tired juniper
#

I wanted to add it to current mesh to increase the mesh

vapid shell
#

Macvtap pops to mind?

sick swan
# tired juniper I wanted to add it to current mesh to increase the mesh

Ok, yeah you can do that. I do run a Google Nest Hub + OTBR here, it runs fine for me. Even have a Eve Motion blind, it stays online all the time.

However, I would not expect that this will help your case (unless maybe the OTBR is in close proximity to the Eve Motion blind, and it is indeed RF related... then maybe).

tired juniper
#

Problem is I only have 1 thread device so I got no idea if the network us working at all etc when it messes up need to yet another thread device so I can see if both go offline but not really in need of any plugs

tired juniper
#

Red in tje boarder routers the bedroom 4 is nanoleaf

sick swan
tired juniper
#

Blue is location of home assistant rf sticks zwave and zigbee using ser2net ha nuc is in a network cabinet

#

1 google hub max, 2 hub 2md gen and one nanoleaf shapes

#

And yes

sick swan
tired juniper
#

Sorry I only used to have the nest hub max in living room and tested threads range using a thread plug in the bedroom it worked fine. But after I sent the plug back and added the nanoleaf and 2 google hub gen 2s before I got tje motionblind

sick swan
#

Hm, I see, so Motion Blind issue might really be different then. Where is your Motion Blind located?

tired juniper
#

Bedroom

#

Dunno if your looking at floor plan I sent

#

But marked out the boarder locations on it

#

In red

sick swan
#

I did, yes, so you have BRs also in the bedrooms, so distance should really be close then

tired juniper
#

Yea I can put one hand on hub and one on blind 🥲

sick swan
#

And how often does it go unavailable? Within 24h?

#

If so, I would just unplug all BRs expect the closes one for 24h, and see if that helps. If the device goes unavailable in that setup, then there is most likely some communication issue between the BR and your HA installation.

tired juniper
#

Yea twice in last 12 hours

#

Wish eve just made a zigbee or zwave blind lol

sick swan
#

Yeah it is still early days Thread. But it will be better once it becomes more mature. The fact you can have multiple BR is really nice.

tired juniper
#

Yea I thought so too and why I wanted to start only buying thread devices but my zigbee and zwave are solid

#

But I got 91 zigbee 33 zwave

#

Only 1 thread device

bronze fog
#

I have 28 Thread devices, with another 25 coming soon

tired juniper
#

I want to use eve in all rooms they will fit but will have to rethink that plan till it's working properly

#

I do need another motion sensor aqara do a thread one but their sensor sucks for range when it's warm

sick swan
#

Yeah most likely this is not a RF issue, but some communication issue between the BRs. It migt be on Google's end. I can help you debug further. The nice thing about Thread is you can actually debug it: It is IP! It is all just ping and IP routes. With Zigbee, this is much harder. But then it is more mature and homogenous so that's why typically works better today.

#

That said, I definitly had Zigbee whoes here 🙈 Bad devices etc. I banned OSRAM, which helped stability a lot. But I still have some devices which somewhat misbehave 😰

tired juniper
#

Was thinking of getting the eve motion sensor but I need a 45degree mount and it looks like it's flush only

sick swan
tired juniper
#

The smartthing motion sensors is what I normally use the magnetic ball mount is so good

bronze fog
sick swan
#

Matter battery operated devices are also not ideal yet at thsi point. The RF side needs to do more work than for a Zigbee device, that is why most Matter based battery devices currently have larger battery 🙈 With Matter 1.4 the standard should have all the tools to allow devices to go into sleep longer (LIT ICD). But until devices are availabel and all controllers support these features etc. it likely will take a while.

tired juniper
#

Anyone tested the aqara p2 thread motion sensor do all the settings avaliable in HA?

sick swan
bronze fog
sick swan
#

My Nanoleaf devices are stable these days. Yeah they threw green bananas at us, but they actually kept working on the firmware, so 🤷‍♂️

tired juniper
#

I'm using unifi

sick swan
#

The smarter the switch the more likely the manufacturer broked something, I guess 🙈

bronze fog
tired juniper
#

Does the otbr addon support ser2net connection like zha z2m and zwave2mqtt?

sick swan
#

It does, but it is not recommended.

#

The Thread RCP protocol is timing sensitive, tunneling it through a network is not ideal.

#

Since Thread is IP based, it is better to have the OTBR component directly connected to the radio.

#

Supposedly it works quite well through Ethernet still.

tired juniper
#

My ser2net pi is connected via ethernet

spring bramble
# tired juniper I'm using unifi

OK, Unifi network gear is known to be problematic, most specific the UDM consoles.
In the network settings make sure to have multicast DNS disabled

tired juniper
#

But my HA install in in a network rack which doesn't work well for letting signal through

spring bramble
#

Also they have some fancy "features" like multicast optimizations which you relaly should disable in a domestic network

tired juniper
spring bramble
#

All those Unifi settings are meant for enterprise networks where they want to limit multicast

tired juniper
#

Is it for transmitting mins across multiple subnets or vlans?

spring bramble
#

In a normal home network all these protocols are based on multicast and it should just travel freely

spring bramble
tired juniper
#

There is multicast encancments under wifi settings and multicast dns under network settings

spring bramble
dusty dirge
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Hey all! Has anyone been able to successfully pair Eve matter devices to a Home Assistant Yellow as a TBR? Eve does not list Home Assistant as an eligible hub on their website ( https://www.evehome.com/en/hub ), but I was not sure if that was because it truly won't work or they are only listing consumer-friendly devices.

vapid shell
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For a yellow TBR there were some gotchas because of Google and Apple problems, but Eve has worked with the yellow thread since before they launched many of their matter firmwares even

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For Google, you need to make sure you use a handset that’s not been connected to a nest device and then it’ll be fine

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For a while with Apple you just had to have a HomePod in the mix to use matter at all, but I think that was solved a couple of months ago now