plugins-dev-chat

[slender lynx]

they dont play sl anymore

what r u on abt

switched to quake

[shy karma]

they still own the server

[slender lynx]

is it mostly random nonames or ppl that we know

[shy karma]

fair enough

[slender lynx]

its a question

?

[shy karma]

oh whoops

im sleep deprived

[celest thorn]

answer the question

[slender lynx]

ggs

[celest thorn]

go to bed then

[shy karma]

im not in it TwT

[slender lynx]

ik damn well all the players that acc matter wouldnt ask for lower dmg

if u put it back to normal dmg id prob play

dont listen to the larpers bro

[shy karma]

loll

[shy karma]

alr ill consider it when im less tired

[slender lynx]

❤️‍🩹

[shy karma]

the vamp server was mostly just a little side project i am doing for fun while I work on something a bit bigger

is it a fixable reasonnnn?

[hollow remnant]

PlayerBannedEventArgs::Duration it's in seconds?

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/add-to-favourites-gif-17225530979352025795

5th or something MER competitor

[shy karma]

nah i wouldnt make it public if i didd

[upper vapor]

ofc why would you

[shy karma]

lol

[upper vapor]

this already exists btw

(yes it's private)

[shy karma]

crazyy

[tired charm]

yes

[hollow remnant]

okaaay, thx

[upper vapor]

society if the docs said the measurement unit

[tired charm]

overrated

[celest thorn]

not as good as meow

[shy karma]

meow?

[grand flower]

what's the point of havign so many

instead of contributing to one

[celest thorn]

i was the first one to do my private one

for other reason

which was full control and optimization

[celest thorn]

MeowEditor

[grand flower]

is it public now or

[celest thorn]

no

[shy karma]

is it actually good lmao

[grand flower]

then how is it better than MER

[shy karma]

nvm TwT

[celest thorn]

Yes?

[grand flower]

"my private plugin is better than the open source one, trust" lol

[celest thorn]

#1474445143347167393 message

[shy karma]

oh wait is that the one you made

ah it was

yeah i see lol

yeah im not invested in this game enough to spend a year and 9 months of my life on that

qwq

[celest thorn]

skill issue

[slender lynx]

1.7 million primitives with 200 fps

[grand flower]

Not collaborative, sucks

good performance sure though

[harsh thorn]

iirc its just agressive "culling" of client primitives by sending net messages to hide and show

[celest thorn]

not that

there's more and more

[slender lynx]

we dont cull

besides what sl forces

[celest thorn]

we don't because its broken asf

[grand flower]

How do you do it

[celest thorn]

magic

[harsh thorn]

aight let me just join using editor with profiler

[grand flower]

Right, how do you do it

[shy karma]

yeah I noticed when I played with you

[celest thorn]

go for it

[slender lynx]

if we had profiler the project would have taken a month instead of 6

[grand flower]

I don't get hiding stuff like this when it could benefit the community

[celest thorn]

it would've taken nothing tbh

[slender lynx]

when the community grows up they can have it

[celest thorn]

Because the server would steal it and pretend they made it

[grand flower]

Bwahahahaha

Okay

I see what kind of bs this is

[celest thorn]

and 9 months of research

[shy karma]

what did i do

[celest thorn]

who is talking to you?

[slender lynx]

the issue is it isnt plug and play like mer

its much more complex

[shy karma]

😭

[celest thorn]

yea true

[slender lynx]

you need to rewrite plugins to get it working

[celest thorn]

i mean it has a command for testing maps

[grand flower]

I humbly apologize to our overlords

[celest thorn]

[grand flower]

God I hate this kind of behaviour

[harsh thorn]

"its not plug and play"

[grand flower]

Stop pinging me for every response

[harsh thorn]

ok but that still didnt answer what it is

[celest thorn]

algo on top of algo

[shy karma]

dosent really matter to me but ya

[slender lynx]

what was the question here

[celest thorn]

deciding what is useful and not

and other 20 optimization

[harsh thorn]

so it is a sort of culling
cuz client is limited to specific objects

[shy karma]

what does it disable if its not culling?

[celest thorn]

sort

[grand flower]

This gatekeeping shit sucks ass and is just childish

[celest thorn]

but its not

[celest thorn]

bro i have an NDA

[shy karma]

collisions?

[slender lynx]

we dont implement our own culling outside of what sl natively forces

[harsh thorn]

if you are telling the client to unspawn/respawn a primitive its culling

[celest thorn]

im not getting sued for you

[grand flower]

^

[static osprey]

do you actually

[celest thorn]

yea

[slender lynx]

zero has nda

[static osprey]

😭

[celest thorn]

maro made me sign it

lol

[slender lynx]

[celest thorn]

im careful with my words

i don't wanna get fucked

[crimson dune]

not that serious

[grand flower]

I'm dying

[slender lynx]

fair enough

[static osprey]

nda for a game server is crazy

[celest thorn]

idk its the reason why server is cool

[celest thorn]

skill issue

tbh idc

like of telling the community

i've seen so many people steal

[harsh thorn]

so, the whole "performance boost" is just you are telling clients selectively which primitives to show and not show

[grand flower]

"Yeah my plugin is better than MER but I won't say how it works, it's private, and y'all have skill issues"

Fuck off

Lmao

[celest thorn]

There's more

[static osprey]

i can half agree with you guys and half not

[celest thorn]

not that only

[harsh thorn]

and possibly generating 1 bigger primitive out of smaller ones

[celest thorn]

even before you see the schematic

[harsh thorn]

cuz there isnt much more you can do

[celest thorn]

there's more you can do

[restive turret]

Non descriptive actions

[celest thorn]

you don't know maro

[slender lynx]

why so agressive

[celest thorn]

trust me

[static osprey]

not sharing stuff i can understand, because if every server uses it then its no longer original

however this is just performance improvements

[grand flower]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-gif-9382638485807678151

[celest thorn]

I mean the problem are a ton and i tried to do algos for fixing them

[slender lynx]

i think ur first issue is getting pressed over the ping notif

[celest thorn]

if you know where to search you know how to make it

[celest thorn]

ping

[harsh thorn]

can we not try to ragebait people

[celest thorn]

im not

[slender lynx]

no ragebait

[harsh thorn]

ive seen enough of that recently

[celest thorn]

im just typing

[slender lynx]

peace and love

[shy karma]

yeah i can tell there has to be but like wtf

[celest thorn]

if you guys want it open source

tell maro

not me

im executing it

[grand flower]

Some people just don't care about being seen as assholes

[static osprey]

maor

[grand flower]

¯_(ツ)_/¯

[slender lynx]

awh cyn blocked me

gg

[celest thorn]

calm down bro

[celest thorn]

im not trying to ragebait i just type

thats it

[slender lynx]

i didnt know leaving ping on reply made ppl this upset bro lmfao

[celest thorn]

I just reply because reply gives context on what im answering

lol

[grand flower]

You know when people tell me SL's community is just ass I generally say that can't be it

[celest thorn]

thats it

[grand flower]

But it's getting harder to disagree

[shy karma]

from what i know of maro they would never unless offered something of equal value in return lols

[celest thorn]

she did

but then she never went through

[harsh thorn]

from what it looks like their just doing selectively spawning/despawning
maybe generating a bigger primitive out of smaller ones when the geometry matches

and maybe they also move some primitives around instead of destroying/creating new ones

[celest thorn]

because the problem is meow is like IDSoftware

[slender lynx]

offered ~ 1.5k from a korean serv but had to decline

[celest thorn]

you need seperate build

for running it

[slender lynx]

if they put 2k ill prob post it

[celest thorn]

and the mainline is ATOH

its calibrated for each gamemode

but all of them use similar approach

[slender lynx]

everything is on the client tho, server never drops below 60 tps even with ~ 1 mil being sent to client

[celest thorn]

if you join atoh with unity 100% you get why this is leaving alot of fps

[shy karma]

I honestly dont get it because when I played atoh I rendered so many prims at once that I dont even know

[celest thorn]

because its both stuff we do on mirror

[harsh thorn]

well most you can do is behaviour changes on the server
the client is just told "spawn this cube here"

[celest thorn]

and other stuff

[harsh thorn]

i know you said that the server doesnt even instantiate the primitves

[celest thorn]

building is one thing the game is seperate

[upper vapor]

AGPL license

[harsh thorn]

but that doesnt account for the fact that everything i just mentioned doesnt require the server to know they exist

[celest thorn]

Please tell me here if you have ever seen someone respect licenses

[slender lynx]

if u fuck the client enough u can get it to only exist on client not server

[harsh thorn]

yeah its called send the spawn message manually

[restive turret]

I do

[celest thorn]

you do 99% of the community doesn't

see the past drama

and you realize that they all were for shit like stealing code

[slender lynx]

0 server recognized objects

[harsh thorn]

thats not that hard to do on its own

[celest thorn]

the only network object is fucking textotys

[celest thorn]

yea thats not the hard part

[harsh thorn]

litterally just follow the network pipeline of spawning a primitive and replay the messages manually

[shy karma]

whats the hard part

[upper vapor]

everything that can be client side is client side only

[celest thorn]

network messages, syncing, algos for building

[restive turret]

Not getting punched in the face

[celest thorn]

WITHOUT UNITY

trust me

its bad

[slate flume]

Literally the exact same BS I've pointed out multiple times, the gatekeeping is crazy

[harsh thorn]

fairly certain the list of things i described with how culling works is how you do it
server just tells the client "yeah this primitive do something with it", it doesnt need to know it exist itself
given you can just, send the message yourself

[upper vapor]

hi yes it's me

[celest thorn]

tbh the problem with culling toys i have

is this

[shy karma]

huh

[celest thorn]

let me find the pic

[restive turret]

Killers did it lol with sitelink

[celest thorn]

killer has the editor

he knows better than me

[upper vapor]

you have a skill issue and cannot figure out parenting?

[celest thorn]

shit

i have hopes and dreams

[celest thorn]

lets not talk about that

dark times

[harsh thorn]

i mean, spawning primitives without instantiating the object in unity isnt that hard on its own

you just need to know how mirror works

[celest thorn]

https://r2.e-z.host/171331e7-c2fd-416b-bbde-8e9ffe19985a/v61g9evi.png

[harsh thorn]

then you can craft your own net message

[true quest]

LMAO

[celest thorn]

this was the problem with culling toys

[slender lynx]

right it did do that

[celest thorn]

https://r2.e-z.host/171331e7-c2fd-416b-bbde-8e9ffe19985a/yqekujec.png

unity fine

game moves

to the center of the culling toy

[slender lynx]

@celest thorn remember tower frames

with culling

were just fucked

[harsh thorn]

are you setting localPosition

[grand flower]

Bootlicking and gatekeeping, can't wait to find out the third one

[restive turret]

Ye its half a time basically end up sending unmanaged object around

[celest thorn]

no

[upper vapor]

one thing i don't understand is the prefab magic bs you do
"meoweditorprimitive" with a color property
you make it a prefab
now you can't preview the colors

[restive turret]

Floats, ints, etc

[harsh thorn]

yeah the server just keeps its reference to the object id it sent to the client, and the client can do something with it
server just "orchestrates" its creation and moving around/culling

[celest thorn]

what

[upper vapor]

you make a prefab and the preview is fully purple

[restive turret]

Only thing "hard" is var int compression but you can just yoink it from mirror

[slender lynx]

he dosent know..

[upper vapor]

editor magic

[celest thorn]

ohhh idk why tf that happens

im just never going to fix it

tbh

its not a big problem

[harsh thorn]

cuz sending the net messages is 100% more performance friendly than creating the object on the server and running the update loop

tbf, im not sure why primitives actually have the update loop

and dont just use syncvar hooks

[slate flume]

Genuinely I've had this conversation multiple times like why come in here talking and bragging about it if you're not gonna share it with anyone
Hold up let me see if I can find an old convo

[upper vapor]

movement smoothing

[celest thorn]

bro calm down its a game

[restive turret]

Tbh many stuff i don't know why not using syncvar hooks anyway

[celest thorn]

like idk why you both are so aggressive

go relax

[shy karma]

you should like not gatekeep thatt

atleast TwT

[celest thorn]

yea so you can steal it

[harsh thorn]

oh thats true, but surely there must be a better way to do that than have an update loop for each primitive
cuz Update() adds overhead in unity

[celest thorn]

sorry but 9 months are 9 months

[grand flower]

I hope you won't try and make it a career, that'd be sad

[slender lynx]

idk why they r purple for u cuz even inside of prefabs they work fine

[grand flower]

Keep to games

[shy karma]

thats not what stealing is TwT

[restive turret]

Only in time when i missed 90% if the convo

[upper vapor]

yeah i want to not figure that out

[static osprey]

inspiration

[harsh thorn]

MovementSmoothedPrimitiveToy.cs

[restive turret]

ourple

[upper vapor]

look at the project view

[slate flume]

You think I need to be pressed and angry in order to criticize you?

[celest thorn]

I love inspiring people

[shy karma]

liess

[celest thorn]

why would you criticize me for what?

[upper vapor]

so the trick is

[celest thorn]

for having private plugins?

[upper vapor]

export from editor

[celest thorn]

like

[upper vapor]

load

[slender lynx]

y criticize in the first place

[upper vapor]

remove from server

lie to client

[celest thorn]

thats not entirely

[upper vapor]

do a bunch of grid magic

[harsh thorn]

honestly i think something like this might benefit performance

removing the update loop from primitives, and making a separate one that actually needs an update loop

[celest thorn]

you are missing big pieces

[upper vapor]

that's meoweditor

[restive turret]

Going to eat my breakfast

[slender lynx]

this whole thing started with primitives and editors

[upper vapor]

for simplicity sake

[celest thorn]

See someone is getting somewhere

finally more optimization

[slender lynx]

neither i or zero cba to argue with u 2 nerds lolz

[upper vapor]

and then the person who wrote it all calls me autistic

[celest thorn]

Please do the internal pr fixing it thnaks

[upper vapor]

like

[slate flume]

Because coming in here and talking about a private plugin and how it's so much better than what everyone else has is not productive
This community is built on open-source code

[celest thorn]

AHHAHAHAHAHHAA

[slender lynx]

🙏

[celest thorn]

@harsh thorn open source sl please

[grand flower]

Are you stupid

[upper vapor]

you're saying this like you don't develop private plugins

[celest thorn]

and centrals

[slender lynx]

northwood open source sl?

community needs open source?

[slate flume]

I readily share my code

[slender lynx]

lol?

[celest thorn]

bro everyone runs private plugins

[slender lynx]

like see this argument

its stupid bro

[upper vapor]

that's true

[celest thorn]

like the argument is so stupid

[grand flower]

You don't go in here to say they're better than public plugins though

[slate flume]

Doesn't mean you have to gatekeep it

[celest thorn]

[slate flume]

I share my work with people

[upper vapor]

i don't

[celest thorn]

tell me

[grand flower]

"My private plugin is better than MER, also you have skill issues" is literally what those two are saying

[celest thorn]

whats so special if i share it

[slender lynx]

we aint stoppin you

[true quest]

dude ngl idk why they care, like you are not even bragging abt it so why they are so mad

[celest thorn]

then my server is just loosing magic

[grand flower]

If they can't take criticism they shouldn't be assholes in the first place lmao

[slender lynx]

you 2 do ur thing

we'll do ours

[upper vapor]

there are amazing private plugins, absolute ass private plugins, spectacular open source plugins and dogshit open source plugins

[grand flower]

👋

[celest thorn]

true

[slender lynx]

aint no way the guy that blocked me for pinging him is complaining

[celest thorn]

but the thing is if we decide to keep it private is alot of reason

[slender lynx]

[celest thorn]

and 1 of them is

its a fucking game engine level of shit

have you ever seen doom?

[upper vapor]

i've seen some of the stuff zero's done but if i really wanted to i could make my own

[slate flume]

Why do you assume I have to be mad in order to criticize people

[celest thorn]

they run each different id software version

[harsh thorn]

i think its

the editor just exports a giant file containing the map

game server loads the struct, lies to client in instantiating the primitives (that they need to know of at the time)
then when the client moves into a zone itl either send new spawn messages, or maybe reuse existing primitives to "cull" out what isnt needed to be shown
and that is based on their so called algo that decides what should be culled when, etc

something like that

[celest thorn]

i cannot answer

else i get sued

[restive turret]

Tbh no one need to know what plugins i working on if it will be only on server that i build for

[upper vapor]

you were not in the vc
not sure if i can say anything else yeah 😭
even though i'm not under NDA

[slender lynx]

one half is right one isnt

[shy karma]

sounds about right

[celest thorn]

the building algo is not on the main plugin

so who cares lol

[harsh thorn]

well, if you are not under NDA there is no legal obligation to say nothing
other than uh, morals

[true quest]

like why even care at first place, I get what are you trying to say dawg but some ppl spends months doing it and they want to be unique, at this point instead of flaming then just do it yourself, you learn plenty out of it

[harsh thorn]

but i mean, what i mentioned sounds like a reasonable aproach at doing it

[upper vapor]

if i figure out one stupid fucking unity bullshit thing is the one thing that would stop me from making my own system
and also my spectacular procrastination skills

[celest thorn]

btw there's a public version

[slate flume]

I don't need it I have no reason to make it myself
I'm just pointing out how what they're doing is reductive

[upper vapor]

join the vc and they'll yap about it

[grand flower]

Why come in here and be like "our private stuff is better than the open source one, and y'all have skill issues if you can't do it yourselves"

[true quest]

then why make a fuss over it

[celest thorn]

https://github.com/AftermathServers/AToHBuilders

[grand flower]

Or is that all fine and dandy

[celest thorn]

this is open source

trust

[slate flume]

Because I've got nothing better to do

[static osprey]

:(

[upper vapor]

it's true though

[slate flume]

If you can't take criticism then don't yap and brag about your shit

[grand flower]

Damn

[upper vapor]

waiting 5 years to get a good open source map editor

[grand flower]

I actually don't know what I was expecting

Disappointing

[upper vapor]

the thing is

if you make your own

[grand flower]

Awesome to make your own

[upper vapor]

zero & maro can just make theirs public

[grand flower]

But to talk shit to others for it? lol?

[upper vapor]

and then be like "actually you're shit"

[celest thorn]

im not saying shit about you

[upper vapor]

yeah that's called attention seeking

[celest thorn]

[celest thorn]

only on the all of the editors even internal ones :3

[grand flower]

Love to see it

[slender lynx]

*larping

[restive turret]

Me omw to make an editor in godot and the plugin for sl to make better map editor

[celest thorn]

bro you know i wanted to make doom with a full editor

[restive turret]

Joke

[celest thorn]

or a 3D game engine

that runs on sl

but then i got bored

[upper vapor]

work a shit ton on a public alternative -> private plugin owners make it open source -> realize theirs is actually better -> wasted months of your life, cry

[restive turret]

I have zero care about map editors

[harsh thorn]

lets optimize primitives on the client and server a shitton to make it obsolete

[restive turret]

I think they are cool, but not care about it much to do anything with it

And honestly I just ass at designing

[upper vapor]

sure you will still get users but like
incompatible frameworks

[upper vapor]

remove primitives

[harsh thorn]

😭

[upper vapor]

add a hypercube

[restive turret]

Real

[upper vapor]

(interstellar reference?)

[harsh thorn]

i cant design for shit

[shy karma]

I just want to fix my hitreg

[harsh thorn]

so i simply have other people do it

[upper vapor]

#1386445648437706973

[grand flower]

When's NW fixing hitboxes natively

the extender works ig but it's like, why

[upper vapor]

uhhh

[restive turret]

When someone will look into it

[upper vapor]

movement networking refactor in

[shy karma]

i mean

[upper vapor]

2 years maybe

or 3

or 8888

[slender lynx]

hr is better with very low animation quality

[harsh thorn]

remind me, what actually was the issue

i heard about like 4 different ones

cuz iirc theres:
issue with backtracking and rotation (some part isnt rotated so you could miss a shot)
animation is not synced with the server/client so if someones arm moves slightly you could miss a shot

and some more

i looked at some of it before

[grand flower]

Unsure really

[upper vapor]

what if we didn't have fancy animations

[grand flower]

I did tell y'all you could just make it way simpler

Instead of running animations on the server

[unique crane]

Guys I have idea

[grand flower]

SL is not an esports game

[shy karma]

what if we deleted sl and remade it but better

[grand flower]

A simple capsule check would work

[shy karma]

think about it

[restive turret]

I'm scared

[unique crane]

lets change something in primitives to break zero's thing

[upper vapor]

@cyan crown

@cyn

[upper vapor]

flip 2 sync vars

[slate flume]

This reminds me of something

[grand flower]

I wonder how many games are being made atm

[restive turret]

Preferably not floats

[upper vapor]

anything really

just move a member up

boom

[unique crane]

The SL AI slop game clone

[harsh thorn]

iirc the server doesnt actually run the animations
or it might, but its not synced with the clients either way
so the clients idle sway could lead to the server not registering the hit because the raycast misses

although, could possibly just buff the hitbox near the areas that sway and see how that works out

cuz iirc its not much

[grand flower]

hitreg wise, I would literally just check against capsules as a cheap simple check. And your new moderation tools that show the reported hit position could be used to detect "always headshots" cheats.

[upper vapor]

or we could make the game less violent and remove damage 🥺

[restive turret]

I have one but it is not related to SL, other is just to fast iteration

[grand flower]

also what

where

[unique crane]

let me find the link

[upper vapor]

probably in some claude code session

[harsh thorn]

oh, that

[upper vapor]

what

[harsh thorn]

[restive turret]

On Roblox i assume

[upper vapor]

😭😭

[unique crane]

No lol

https://store.steampowered.com/app/4088120/SCP_ReEnter/

Steam

SCP: ReEnter

SCP: ReEnter is a free-to-play, multiplayer first-person survival and action game set during a catastrophic containment breach in a secure Foundation facility. At the start of each round, all players are randomly assigned to either the Human team or the SCP Anomaly team. This creates a high-stakes asymmetrical battle where objectives are dyn…

Release Date

Q1 2026

[grand flower]

this shit is so ass what the fuck

[static osprey]

thats my game

thanks cyn

[unique crane]

XDDDD

[grand flower]

I hope not

[harsh thorn]

iirc the hitreg stuff was something someone was working on, along with a fix for movement desync on low tps/unstable connections
but they left some time ago so it needs to be picked up by someone else who are also busy with their own projects

[grand flower]

My condolences if it's your game

[static osprey]

Thanks...Not like i put effort into it or anything

[grand flower]

Are you joking or

I'm assuming you are

[unique crane]

ofc he is

[grand flower]

Okay I was starting to be worried

[static osprey]

[harsh thorn]

you need to look very hard to find a serious comment from zenlet in thischat

[grand flower]

It wouldn't change my mind about calling it ass but I'd be a little more apologetic to your face

maybe, idk probs not I hate AI slop

[restive turret]

He was prompting like 12 hours a day!

[static osprey]

hey ive been serious

[harsh thorn]

sometimes yes

not all the time though

[grand flower]

But yeah for my project the plan is that I will have rollback (I already do) and just check if the shot could've hit the bounding box of the player/capsule collision. Super cheap and probably works well even on low TPS, ish.

I feel like this would work well for SL

I've said it before but NW's code is just overkill, you're writing it like SL is a competitive esports shooter at times heh

[upper vapor]

"i've written 100000 lines of code in the past 2 days"

[round island]

why are they just staring at me

[slate flume]

Big

[restive turret]

Microslop ass response

[upper vapor]

wait for what's coming in 15.0

[harsh thorn]

tbh i feel like hitreg can be fixed if we account for idle animations

[upper vapor]

real

[harsh thorn]

and well, iirc the target isnt rotated in backtrack

[grand flower]

I don't play SL anymore so I'm not waiting for anything. But I'd be happy for the communities I enjoy if it got better

[grand flower]

capsules would solve that ^^

would literally not matter at all

and add a bit of leniency too

[harsh thorn]

so if someone were to rotate 90 degs, a shot could miss

[unique crane]

096 and 049 has capsule collider

[restive turret]

People not gonna behave better suddenly

[grand flower]

then an OBB instead

you can easily generate that

[unique crane]

Seems like they are

[grand flower]

They're not, I left SL for a reason :p but I still root for the development teams of Bright's and SODA

[harsh thorn]

theres 2 cttors

1 for target
1 for attacker

[slate flume]

You're the goat

[harsh thorn]

iirc thats the attacker one

[unique crane]

No thats the most base one

[harsh thorn]

oh yeah its base

[grand flower]

Wait the attacker sends their claimed position/rotation?

[harsh thorn]

its backtracking, lag compensation

they send claimed positions
server checks if it falls within the bounds of the players position on the server

[grand flower]

Can't the server just run shooting netcode inline with the movement?

or well, no not currently nvm

Forgot SL's movement doesn't work like that

ouch

[harsh thorn]

might be possible if movement is unfucked to not be tps/net stability dependant

[grand flower]

Y'all need to re-implement movement to be more like other FPS shooters

[slate flume]

I remember when NW devs were raving about a new movement overhaul
Iirc that project was stranded

[harsh thorn]

person that worked on it left due to lack of time iirc

[grand flower]

That way you'd be able to connect shooting and moving

F

[grand flower]

Also shit I'm gonna have to rename my game now

[unique crane]

💀

[grand flower]

Not the name of mine but it's close enough that I feel like it could be confused for it

fuck me

fuck AI

(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻

eh we'll see

[slate flume]

[round island]

rainbow six siege leaning soon and slide canceling

[harsh thorn]

but backtracking itself is fine, albeit i might want to give it some touches to annoy the cheaters cuz funny

it just seems rotation for the target is missing
so say a player was rotated slightly on the server compared to your viewpoint
it could lead to a missed shot

and idle sway accounting

[upper vapor]

"@steam remove this ai slop game"

[grand flower]

You joke but I almost want leaning in mine heh

adds to the horror element

Crouching for sure though

[round island]

Imagine doctors head just poking out

[slate flume]

Lean around a corner, see an SCP, and you know you're cooked

[grand flower]

Not for scips

would be funny though

[restive turret]

We (at davas) has some good community, ofc many trouble makers was there [and waking me up like 5 or 6 in the morning], and also you could make more closed community (like whitelisted servers or smth?) but those will be hard to find and niche

[slate flume]

I'll add it for SCPs

90 degree lean

[round island]

i would imagine scp 096’s forehead being seeable which would piss him off

[grand flower]

Nah I'm adding arbitrary modding restrictions to prevent that /s

[slate flume]

Sounding like Northwood rn 0_0

[round island]

this is not the southmetal i know

[restive turret]

Im gonna make you gimbo locked

[grand flower]

fair

I'm good though, had my fun developing for Bright's, on to bigger things

[slate flume]

I like writing C# code

[grand flower]

Me too

I'll have to write a backend for Reflection so that'll be fun

[pallid summit]

C# mention

[grand flower]

But it won't be as important as central servers, it going down won't affect the game

hi Sarean

[harsh thorn]

some time i may get around to finishing the scp game i had inherited after it fucking imploded

[grand flower]

Was it SCP: Unity?

I loved that game

real shame it died

[upper vapor]

real

[harsh thorn]

no, project from a friend i had worked on, but drama occurred so then they left

[restive turret]

Fair, I still have fun in SL.
Like I was doing Tarkov previously and R6S modding

[grand flower]

R6S modding????

[harsh thorn]

but scp unity was so peak

[grand flower]

How does that work

[restive turret]

.forge file fuckkerry memory editing

[pallid summit]

From what I gathered owner mismanaged, couldn’t handle it anymore and then ragequit leaving all his devs in the shitter

[grand flower]

yeaaaah

[slate flume]

That's ruff

[grand flower]

I'm taking partial inspiration from it

[unique crane]

Still waiting for Markiplier to play SL...

[grand flower]

I liked the design

[harsh thorn]

the design was really cool

[slate flume]

I hope to do that someday

:)

[grand flower]

NOOOO

[pallid summit]

The SCP models are really cool, you could take those

[restive turret]

You gonna missmanage everyone?

[grand flower]

I could yeah, maybe as placeholders

[slate flume]

And then rage quit and strand everyone

[grand flower]

I'm gonna take CB's models as placeholders for human roles heh

it'll be funny

[harsh thorn]

problem i mainly have, im not a modeler
so i make game, but models well uh yes

same for textures

[grand flower]

I'm gonna hire for models

[harsh thorn]

[slate flume]

Steal models

[grand flower]

textures I can somewhat do

[slate flume]

Ez

[pallid summit]

Bestie goalzzzz💅 💅 💅

[spring swan]

I see this channel is active early in the morning

[grand flower]

Not stealing if they're under CC-BY-SA

[round island]

He would probably just get cursed out or people are gonna yell at his ear saying oh my god its markiplier

[harsh thorn]

legal use

[grand flower]

it be 1:43 AM

[slate flume]

I'm ripping assets from game studios trust

[harsh thorn]

other than scp 173

cuz thats a special case

[slate flume]

We're popping off

[spring swan]

4:44 over here

[unique crane]

americans smh

[upper vapor]

Hello everybody my name is Markiplier and I am a fish

[harsh thorn]

10:44

[grand flower]

God no

[harsh thorn]

me waiting for my CI build to finish

[unique crane]

10:44 gang

[grand flower]

I'm the friendlier north side

[pallid summit]

Clearly it’s 10:44

[grand flower]

[unique crane]

Do some more wizardry and speed it up like last time

[upper vapor]

That's not the freedom flag

[slate flume]

I live in America cause I'm based and anyone who doesn't live here is a commie bastard

[harsh thorn]

what wizardry are you talking about

my trying to manually run pipeline stages?

CI didnt appreciate me doing that

[upper vapor]

It's called Linux

[spring swan]

Not true EST is the only time zone in my eyes

[grand flower]

PST supremacy

[pallid summit]

Freedom freedom gunz eagle big mac

[upper vapor]

So basically you're saying that there are no timezones

[spring swan]

Correct

[celest thorn]

yo guys

[harsh thorn]

~~CET ontop ~~

[slate flume]

Bro is spitting! 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸

[celest thorn]

legit

[grand flower]

I used to be CET

[restive turret]

Cest

[grand flower]

moved to Canada though

[slate flume]

CST baby

[pallid summit]

Immabout to be JST in 1 week 😤

[grand flower]

rip

[pallid summit]

I speak a little bit of american

[spring swan]

It’s called EarthS Timezone for a reason

[harsh thorn]

cant wait for summer time and have more time diff again

[upper vapor]

Daylight savings is fucking stupid

[harsh thorn]

or the other wy around

i forgot which way the clock goes

[restive turret]

Up in the wall facing you

[round island]

re zero plot:

[pallid summit]

JST supremacy, no summer/winter time

[slate flume]

How do you think daylight savings feels about you?

[harsh thorn]

i just know it fucks up my sleep

[upper vapor]

[odd hazel]

is it slowed down or a image?

[grand flower]

aight gotta go sleep

[upper vapor]

It has no feelings

[restive turret]

I already have fucked up sleep

[spring swan]

Switch to JhP and go for legs gg ez

[harsh thorn]

but daylight savings fucks it up more

😭

[restive turret]

That's why i wake up 10 today

[grand flower]

Before my wife kills me for waking her up at 2 am

[slate flume]

I just woke up for the day

[upper vapor]

Joker summer time?

[grand flower]

hfhf

[harsh thorn]

me getting tired at 9pm

despite waking up at like 10

[pallid summit]

Japanese Superior Timezone

[slate flume]

Instead of scrolling through brainrot reels in the morning I come here for my daily dose

[upper vapor]

Right

[upper vapor]

[harsh thorn]

gotta love irl jobs demanding 6:00 wakeup

[restive turret]

Me not doing shit until like 6 and still be up to 2 am

[spring swan]

I mean my brain is already melted for being in this community for so long

[upper vapor]

School khm

[harsh thorn]

or well, demanding
i kinda need to because i wont be in time otherwise

well you see

[unique crane]

We waking up at 11 in the morning for my uni

what a good life

[harsh thorn]

wake at 6, arrive at 7:30 work till 4

[upper vapor]

Your what melted

[harsh thorn]

then get home at 5

[restive turret]

I more productive at night so

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/uni-unico-uniuni-unicouniuni-unicouniuni3-gif-12798344145506295943

[harsh thorn]

yeah same

problem is my nights are not very long

because i need to wake up at 6

😭

[spring swan]

You heard me

[harsh thorn]

when i was still in "college" i have a single day of class
started at 12:30 till 4pm

[slate flume]

https://tenor.com/view/dumb-spongbob-patrick-sponge-bob-squarepants-orbof-confusion-gif-14622567

[harsh thorn]

that was peak

though other weekdays i had to work

[upper vapor]

I didn't, I only saw

[harsh thorn]

so only 1 day of peak

[upper vapor]

[restive turret]

Fr except the time you have to wake up early

[unique crane]

I have most draining c# class I ever had

god that shit is so boring 😭

[spring swan]

Imagine you hear a voice reading out my text, by then you technically heard me

[celest thorn]

btw ced when do programmers / labapi position open?

if you know

[harsh thorn]

question for beryl

[celest thorn]

i pinged beryl ig im gonna wait then for a reply

[unique crane]

Im not opening labapi positions any time soon

[harsh thorn]

that only leaves programming then
which is entirely up to beryl

[unique crane]

We still have 4/4 maintainers

[celest thorn]

so sad

the goat is betraying me

[restive turret]

Literally my classes

[unique crane]

btw

I found out

[harsh thorn]

4 hours of "ai class"?

[unique crane]

Ill have to do assembly this semester 😭

[celest thorn]

im sorry for you

[restive turret]

Ain't you said you don't want to work at nw?

[celest thorn]

maybe i changed

[unique crane]

He is getting PhD in prompting

[celest thorn]

[harsh thorn]

PhD in slop creation

😭

certified prompter

[restive turret]

Ye its basically 2h => 1.30h

[unique crane]

Funniest part is that AI specialization requires second most math out of all specializations

[restive turret]

But i still find it useless

[harsh thorn]

but like fr what do they teach you in "ai class"

[round island]

security guard for the scp foundation in thursday

[harsh thorn]

do they actually go into depts of neural nets

or just "prompting"

[restive turret]

Currently was just how they training and pre-shit

[unique crane]

A lot of statistics, neural networks, linear regression and shit

I guess

[harsh thorn]

sounds boring

[unique crane]

tree decision

[harsh thorn]

i like writing code

[unique crane]

All in python for extra boringness

[restive turret]

I'm not gonna be a prompstitute

[harsh thorn]

and doing system management

[restive turret]

It is

[harsh thorn]

c++ is truly a funny language

[restive turret]

Yeah i seen it,

[unique crane]

The 5 humblous ways to do something in c++:

[harsh thorn]

i fucking hate debugging certain crashes

[upper vapor]

shyteon

[harsh thorn]

php

to be incredibly honest
php isnt that terriby if used properly

it just has some limits that you need to be creative for

[spring swan]

Php sounds like a very fun language according to my devs

[harsh thorn]

it is very funny

one of its downsides imo is it has magic variables

[spring swan]

I even heard a keyboard bang in one meeting

[harsh thorn]

i can set $test = "funny";
and later do $test= 1;

[unique crane]

C is surprisingly easy language if you dont count the memory management part

[harsh thorn]

wait until you write code for XDP

[spring swan]

There’s like so many C’s

[unique crane]

The C family

[spring swan]

Like C# C++ C, HolyC, etc

[unique crane]

and weird uncle Java

[restive turret]

C-=

[harsh thorn]

(fyi, xdp is something you can write C code for thatl run in the kernel to process inbound/outbound network packets, for low level filtering)

and the "verifier" (loader) is so incredibly picky and will give you some random ass fuckass error if you didnt bound check a pointer before using it

[unique crane]

so programmable packet filter

[harsh thorn]

basically yes

with certain network adapters the code can run on the network hardware itself

[unique crane]

Not bound checking is rookie mistake in C to be fair

[static osprey]

i remember when you became sysadmin and hated php

[unique crane]

it kinda lets you do it until it doesnt

[harsh thorn]

yes, but it is super picky
if you dont do it the way it wants, and where it wants (even though you bound checked it 200 lines ago)
it will complain

[unique crane]

rip

[harsh thorn]

i still hate certain parts of the php in question

[unique crane]

anyways back to Logism

[harsh thorn]

but after writing some peak in some places its not too bad if used properly

[restive turret]

Back to review

[unique crane]

i reviewed all of your stuff

[harsh thorn]

back to c++

1 more hour before lunch 🙏

[restive turret]

Re-re do it, you ain't getting notif about me fixing it

Tagging zenlet to add phone push notifications

[obtuse spruce]

you should hate php too

[upper vapor]

i agree

[harsh thorn]

php is allright

it just needs a special touch

[true quest]

@static osprey mb I was doing some other stuff

ehh

@celest thorn went for lunch

she's playing xenoblade

[static osprey]

its ok

[celest thorn]

what are you doing here???

[cyan crown]

😭

[cyan crown]

Hi zenlet

[static osprey]

Hi Jovix

[cyan crown]

https://tenor.com/view/scpsl-scp-secret-lab-scp-secret-laboratory-scp-sl-mtf-scp-079-gif-5760647065516151979

unty

[gilded plover]

theyre kinda small in some areas and should be expanded too

[gilded plover]

would ruin the point i can explain why if you care

[quasi dome]

makes windows run better when youre not using any other program, and releases that memory in order to prioritize said programs

[cyan crown]

you're testing this on a local host

which is unreliable way of testing the game

[upper vapor]

just don't use windows

[slender lynx]

go for it

5 dmg pvp dosent translate to basegame

ppl r bodyaim warriors with low dmg like that

[gilded plover]

if you set it to default damage the low ttk means whoever gets the better random strafe that the opponent cant track instantly wins bc theres no room for error, at that point it would just be normal pvp with insane heal but whoever has lower ping and better reactive tracking wins, so at that point you might aswell remove the vamp in the first place since it just adds rng, and then theres no reason to even be on surface with no cover when first shot matters so much with no heal and low ttk so if we go down that path we might aswel just make classic deathmatch in the facility

[gilded plover]

it doesnt have to and it will still teach you tracking really well, headshot in maingame is mainly good for closer range or ads due to spread

[upper vapor]

this is crazy

[gilded plover]

id say if your purely playing to improve at maingame it will help you alot just by teaching you perfect tracking, and it doesnt really matter if your aiming body or head both is tracking

[slate flume]

Don't listen to the word of one person, do what you feel is best for the community you develop for
My two cents is I think putting focus on maintaining "competitiveness" in SL mechanics is lame

[upper vapor]

competitive shitting

https://tenor.com/view/competitive-shitting-shitting-kitten-competive-shitting-gif-26316760

[true quest]

DAUKJIHÇDAUIHDIYUGAYUDGADA

[gilded plover]

fast ttk in facility deathmatch teaches you when to peek and how to abuse peekers advantage more than pure tracking since in most cases the enemy doesnt have much space to strafe in

[upper vapor]

gay dude?

[gilded plover]

the damage was originally 10 but after feedback from people like lunar we lowered it, tho we might also lower heal so duels dont last super long

[gilded plover]

me fr

[upper vapor]

lunar client mentioned

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/why-are-you-why-are-you-gay-pepe-julian-who-is-gay-you-are-gay-gif-15004128

[gilded plover]

thats what were doing.
also that specific server is made purely for gunplay so thats why were "maintaining competetiveness"

[gilded plover]

i like feather more tbh

[gilded plover]

its the same on the actual game and i could test in nw qa or my own priv server but it would look the same so whats the point

[restive turret]

screenshitted

[cyan crown]

yeah but for further testing just test in nw qa server or your own private server

never test in local host

[upper vapor]

[upper vapor]

why

[gilded plover]

bad habbit ty for reminding me

[upper vapor]

why not let others test my server at 192.168.0.100

[cyan crown]

its unrealiable

[upper vapor]

unfakeiable

[rain isle]

nah hop on mine, 127.0.0.1

[cyan crown]

i never tested on local host ever

[gilded plover]

hop on mine, 069.4.2.0

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/lazar-figyel-are-you-serious-are-you-kidding-me-wtf-seriously-gif-6154405

[spring swan]

Wait that’s my ip

[rain isle]

wait me too

[mild ice]

Guys get out my house

That's my IP

[upper vapor]

it's OUR IP

[slate flume]

TTK is really interesting
Games like CS2 with a low TTK focus so much on setup, positioning, reactions, and peaking
It seems to me that there's probably a happy medium where if you get the TTK right, it can encourage more casual play, or at least emphasis on different skills

[gilded plover]

for the main game idk, higher ttk than default will make it less rng and more tracking heavy so skilled players will have an advantage since they will stay on target more consistently

i think current ttk for the maingame is good, im discussing a custom gamemode server anyways

i think a slight boost in ttk in the maingame might be good for less aware casual players so you die less from people camping while scoped in and just peeking around a corner while prefiring, just stuff that you need to expect before it happens

what server do you host if you dont mind me asking?

[slate flume]

SODA

I solo dev and co-own with a couple guys

It's chill

[grand flower]

I think SL's main issue is just the proliferation of guns and ammo

If the game was more of a "you found a pistol from a dead guard and barely any ammo" it would play a lot differently

[slate flume]

Genuinely tell me more I'm interested to hear how the game can be improved

[slate flume]

Suspicious stack of ammo in HCZ Armory:

[grand flower]

It's more of how I don't like the fact SL is so much of an arcade shooter

[gilded plover]

i like that aspect alot, i dont like the thought of it being a tactical shooter

[grand flower]

If guns were rarer and had more disadvantages to using them (i.e. killing humans instead of them being potential teammates), it would be a lot more thrilling

If SCPs were the main threat

[gilded plover]

run and gun fast paced movement is very fun

[gilded plover]

they are

[grand flower]

Not at all

They're a joke really

[gilded plover]

it would discourage killing

[grand flower]

Which is exactly what I'd prefer

[gilded plover]

thats... just not really true

and scp winrate is 37%

[grand flower]

Can you disable pinging every reply please lol

[gilded plover]

when theres 3 outcomes

[grand flower]

Depends on the servers tbh

[slate flume]

SCPs are kinda like stuffing at Thanksgiving

[grand flower]

I used to work for Bright's and anytime I'd go from the Mayhem servers (one overpowered SCP with a ton of HP) to our regular servers, they'd become a joke

You get so used to the SCP being bs OP that back on regular they're memes

[gilded plover]

on official servers it is which probably have the most diverse playerbase

[slate flume]

Like you have a thanksgiving meal and you expect stuffing
Stuffing is pretty much a given
Different places have different types and interpretations of stuffing, but at the end of the day it's still stuffing
The main focus is the turkey

[grand flower]

https://tenor.com/view/discord-gif-9382638485807678151

I guess it depends on the players sure

But it's what we encountered on Bright's

[upper vapor]

1 million pings

[grand flower]

Humans with guns are more of a threat

[gilded plover]

idk, my experience with dr brights has also been scps being pretty powerful

[slate flume]

SCP winrate should be 50%

[gilded plover]

i would disagree from my experience

[slate flume]

Or more

[grand flower]

They're not extremely weak for sure, but I still consider armed humans more of a threat

angelik can you disable pings please lol

[grand flower]

I would rather see winrate differently tbh

[gilded plover]

trust me that would be really really unenjoyable, alot of the stalemates are scps being the last alive too

[slate flume]

Interesting

[grand flower]

Like for my project if the rounds end with mainly nukes after people escape, that's a win

[gilded plover]

37% out of 4 options is a lot

[slate flume]

By 4 options are you including stalemates?

[upper vapor]

flamingos winrate

[slate flume]

When I think winrates I don't consider it
MTF vs Chaos vs SCP
I consider it
SCP vs Humans

[gilded plover]

they keep turning on woops

[restive turret]

1 DBoi vs 40 mtf

[grand flower]

npnp

[upper vapor]

that one guy with a chinese name

[grand flower]

This

[slate flume]

If it's a 37/63 split SCP/Human then that would mean humans are definitively more powerful SCPs, because they win more often

[grand flower]

I would rather non-military classes ally and escape together

Military classes fighting each other sounds fine IMO

[gilded plover]

stalemights exist too

[slate flume]

I just assumed you disregarded them if you have the numbers I'd love to look at them

[slate flume]

That's what I'm getting at with the >=50% metric
Ideal balancing is SCPs win roughly the same amount as Humans, or more, given that they're meant to be powerful and menacing

[gilded plover]

theres a reason the game has 3 factions, i feel like its more of a dead by daylight experience at that point if you see the game that way

[gilded plover]

they already are pretty powerful but ye

[slate flume]

Why should SCPs be considered less of a threat (or equal threat) to another militant class
They should be the overarching enemy imo

[gilded plover]

i dont have the numbers id just say from experience alot of stalemates are scps left

[slate flume]

Idk they're still stalemates

I don't really quantify how much of a win it is or how much of a tie it is

You'll have close games and you'll have blow-outs
You'll have ties that almost weren't ties and ties that were because of a dead-even match

I can't claim I have a bunch of years of experience with game development or design, but I believe that the main draw of SL shouldn't be PvP between militant classes, it should be fighting against SCPs

SCPs should be menacing and powerful, and they should win roughly the same amount as the humans combined

[gilded plover]

because well its more balanced and losing to the same thing repeatedly just doesnt sound like a fun experience, i mean some people might enjoy the scps just dominating everyone every round since its a more lore accurate experience but it would just be unfun to the majority of people in the main game

[grand flower]

I think the main goal shouldn't be killing SCPs

[gilded plover]

yeah they probably dont matter, i just see whoever is last standing as important too rather than just who the game tells you wins

[upper vapor]

become friends with SCPs

[grand flower]

and if there were ways to recontain them over just shooting that wouldn't be an issue

[slate flume]

It's not about them dominating everyone every round, it's about SCPs winning as much as humans
SCPs shouldn't be winning a ton less than human teams

[grand flower]

tbf i think another reason why my idea doesn't work on SL is the map size

too easy to escape

[teal junco]

I think the issue with scintists and d class teaming up is always "what happens when we escape / what happens if we meet a guard/chaos?"

[slate flume]

I think the big problem here is that the game rewards you less for a cuffed escape

Win conditions only care about non-cuffed escapes, and it makes your individual escape less important if you are cuffed when doing it

[gilded plover]

winning more than humans or as much as humans who are 2 differnt faction kind of equals dominating

[grand flower]

in my case I'd rather give a good bonus to mtf/chaos if they escorted the players out instead of murdering

[gilded plover]

good take

[grand flower]

hell I'd be okay penalizing murder

[slate flume]

So if the game had 4 human factions, SCPs should win 20% of the time? That is bad design for an SCP game
SCPs are supposed to be the big bad, and humans fight against them, no matter what side you're on

At least that's my take

[slate flume]

Because in the former case it's now all about PvP (primarily between humans), and the SCPs are again regressed to a side-note

[dusky radish]

I quite like the current tri faction system it makes the game more challenging and its interesting seeing sometimes how people prioritise but its incredibly annoying seeing a group target the wrong faction and giving them a free win

[upper vapor]

serpent's hand

[gilded plover]

thats why theres 3 factions, and its supposed to be what you want it to be. an scp game could technically be cod but you have items from the scp universe

[upper vapor]

[gilded plover]

would be so cool if it was added, humans who assist scps

[dusky radish]

Lowkey thats what old chaos was like

[gilded plover]

winrate kind of says otherwise with them having the biggest winrate in the game idk

[teal junco]

so people only really want to shoot if theyre sure its you or me

[dusky radish]

Would be a cool event team but idk if it would be too op

[slate flume]

I'm confused why you don't lump humans together

[teal junco]

Serpents hand is such a pile of dogshit

[grand flower]

part of my idea is also to display the best players of the match

Not just teams

[slate flume]

You view the human teams as being distinct entities to abide by their own equal winrates
It ruines the idea of SCPs as the main villain, which is what an SCP game is supposed to have

[grand flower]

So while your team might win, your actions during the round also could have you, as a sole player, win

With potential for some rewards/benefits on the next round

[thin shuttle]

do we know if new scp can take item and throw them away ?

like 3114

[restive turret]

no

[slate flume]

I could go either way with this
I think part of the problem with SL has been that over the years it's reduced the need for teamwork
It's supposed to be a social horror

[dusky radish]

The SCPs are enemies to humanity but you have got to remember chaos arent at site 02 for a vacation with the mtf they are a hostile faction who despise the foundation

[gilded plover]

i just dont see the game that way, theres 3 factions

[slate flume]

Yeah I fully understand that

[dusky radish]

Theres no point in three factions if two of them are going to work together all the time

[grand flower]

Cooperative choices = bonus points/chances for a respawn perhaps

Better class/gear, better chance at respawning

I want to reward players who aren't just run and gun

[upper vapor]

connect 2 kind of stuff

or what's that called

4096

[slate flume]

It's not about them working together all the time, it's about having an overarching evil that isn't going to be wiped by a couple sweaty tryhards
They'll still fight each other, but there will be moments where it's like "Hey, there's 3 SCPs here and no more spawn-waves, how about we team up to take care of the bigger evil before fighting each other"

And that leads to more cooperation and social situations

[dusky radish]

Ive seen this happen naturally before but it dosent make sense chaos are attacking the facility because they dislike the foundation but also they are attacking anomalies so they dont get killed by them

I can see more cooperation

there should be more

but i dont think forcing it has a point

[slate flume]

Enemy of my enemy is my friend -type shit

[grand flower]

I said it a little earlier but I'm fine with military factions murdering each other

They're military and it's their job

[slate flume]

It's not about forcing it

It's about SCPs not being relegated to the side

[grand flower]

My point was moreso civilian factions killing each other or military factions just gunning down the civilian ones

[slate flume]

SCPs are so much weaker than they used to be

[slate flume]

SCPs should be scary, I think that's the essence of an SCP horror game
It just doesn't make sense any other way imo

[dusky radish]

SCP:SL rewards targetting SCPs

and lots of people do just that

[slate flume]

That's not my point

[dusky radish]

like something very common which is annoying is people nuking constantly (Very soon after the game started)

to push scps to the surface

[slate flume]

My point is shit like this

Why is this behaviour possible and rewarded

[upper vapor]

https://tenor.com/view/truth-nuke-truth-true-soyjak-wojak-gif-14828627546768133163

[slate flume]

It shouldn't be