#[Poll] Preferred Battle System

700 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

obsidian meadow
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(In regards to https://discord.com/channels/329571474245550081/1279581998771339334)

I should’ve made a poll; I’m not trying to fix or improve the realtime system just for the sake of it if people inherently prefer turnbased lol

I’d only explore ways to address the current shortcomings if the community actually wants realtime to begin with. If you were suggesting improvements for the realtime system then I'm just assuming you want a realtime system over turnbased.

humble pewter
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I'll admit, when I read that Nexomon 3 was changing up the battle style and moving away from turn-based, it actually killed a lot of my hype for the game. Turn-based games are my jam, and I've already lost love for a series because it moved away from turn based gameplay (Final Fantasy).

Creature collection games in particular, I really like and prefer the more fine control you have in a turn-based fight. Reading the last post, I would be one of those people that'd pause every 3 seconds if there was a slow down/pause. Run into a rare creature, I want to be able to have time to think about how I'm going to go about catching it, and not risk my creatures knocking it out if they had idle AI. So yeah, my 2 cents, I would love it if the game was turn-based combat. I think your idea for the battle system is interesting, but it's really not my preference.

hollow tinsel
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I just prefer turn based because strategy is required in Monster-3D games and I'd like as much time to think about my strat incase of tough battles or something like that

steel fog
# obsidian meadow ----- (In regards to https://discord.com/channels/329571474245550081/1279581998...

So I got two things to propose, based on the other thread:

  • a mix between both. It is technically turn-based, but dynamical like a real time game. Basically, what Legends Arceus did. It's not your turn their turn your turn .... But turns are decided based on speed, skill used etc. The issue to this would be that the trigger skills could be exploited, unless they turn time cooldown into turn/movement cooldowns.

  • the AI can only use one skill. This makes a manual playing style much more efficient and productive than the AI. You can either have a predetermined or a set skill usage. If you follow the above turn based but dynamic suggestion, there wouldn't even be a need for an AI.

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The advantage (talking of proposition 1) is that it gives the feeling of a real time combat without the stress coming with it (spamming buttons, being stressed over acting quickly, etc.). In fact, you could say it is a "false time" combat, as time is measured in movement, not real time.

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I think this would be a nice compromise between both systems, and based on the game I know it of, a very fun and also fresh new system compared to the old known turn based combat we know of most Monster Taming Games

obsidian meadow
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How did they do it for multibattles - did you have to choose the moves for all party members before the showdown stage?

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We tried something similar for a brief time, but at 3 or 4 party size the decisionmaking downtime felt quite slow

hollow tinsel
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There was a pokemon-fangame that did real time battling and although it was fun, it did take a while to adjust to it so it could be the same for Nexomon

humble pewter
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Legends Arceus didn't have multi-battles where the player had multiple Pokemon, iirc, but there was multi-battles against the AI. It's battle system worked in that nobody got to choose their move until their turn came up, Pokemon by Pokemon, and the move was executed immediately. Sort of like old Final Fantasy games instead of the round-by-round of mainline Pokemon.

steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
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So how I'd suggest it:

  1. Battle starts. As it is the beginning, you need to select the skills to all of your Nexos.
  2. Dynamic order occurs, meaning the fast ones move first, and based on their speed might even move twice.
  3. This leads to your Nexos all being done with their turn at different times, hence why you need to select at different moments.
  4. You could even reimplement your queue-system, where you can select more skills in turn even if there's already a skill in the queue. This has the benefit that you can make the battle real time until the queue is done.

What do I mean with the last one? Well, say you got a whole queue set up on both sides until say turn 7. Then the game could run in real time until Turn 7, the First non-used player turn.

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To note that this wouldn't be enforced. The Player can easily just not mass-queue things and thus have things decided one at a time, while more casual and fast paced one can spam the queue full and see a sort of real time combat happening

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With the AI in addition, either way you will add it, this gives you a less overwhelming and stressfull experience

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Instead of having to select skills for all 3/4/5, you can set the attackers on auto, while you control the supports

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Or something like that

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A full auto would also mean you have basically cinematic real time combat as well

maiden compass
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Since multi-battles are the norm, I think real time actually works best.

For a turn based system, there would be 2 possibilities:

  • Give commands to all your mons (which takes a while) then watch all of them act it out (which could also be long) so battles might feel a bit sluggish
  • Give commands one at a time : this would probably fix the tempo issue, but overall, battles will still feel long, also you'll make decisions one at a time so you have quite a lot of information at your disposal each time you select a move so it might end up being too easy
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For real time, the multiple mons on field makes more sense, since commands don't take as long and you don't need to micro-manage each mon, it's more of a "big picture" management style so if the focus is still for multi battles being common occurrence, stick with real time and find a way to make it work

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If single battles or 2v2 are going to be the norm, turn base might be better

steel fog
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Honestly, you can make both systems work in both cases well, you just need to flesh it out well

maiden compass
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The BIGGEST issue I had though with the legends Arceus system (because it was used as an example above) is that, even though mons were meant to be a bigger part of exploration (rideable, gather materials...) I really didn't feel attached to my mons, I could replace them and didn't feel anything either way. This MIGHT be an issue with having multiple mons fight at the same time

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There probably is a way to make turn base work while controlling multiple mons, but from everything I can think up, the issue remains that battles are going to feel slow

steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
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Just my opinion, but Im not a fan of the fact that there are multiple mons in a turn based game, unless, each Mon has a specific role, like healer, tank, DPS, support... Otherwise it just feels like chaos for the sake of chaos

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Digimon cyber sleuth had multiple mons in a turn based game, it is a bit lik what you suggested, although it has more "elemental rock paper scissors" option so it kinda worked, but battles felt really repetitive, also the main USP of that game was evolutions, definitely not the battle system

steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
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Yeah but if each team member is just having a different elemental affinity and spamming their strongest attack, I don't see the point of having multiple mons battle together

steel fog
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That's only one of many different battlestyles you could make

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If that's the strategy you're going for (which is often a casuals), then you should be allowed to, but others should be allowed many other playstyles as well

maiden compass
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I just don't see the appeal, compared to doing that in a turn based game that's 1 on 1, it's just to have the gimmick of saying there's multi battles, if a casual, with "poor team building" can power through the game, what would be the point to have good strategies, making the game even easier?

steel fog
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Difficulty levels could be a thing. PvP could be a thing in the future, even if maybe not for N3, having a game with the system that's gonna be used for PvP eventually isn't too bad for Balancing and tweaking

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It also allows for fun playstyles and challenges

humble pewter
random forge
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Seeing people prefer turn based gives me joy-

My two cents- I'm not in the mon tamer genre for the real time combat, I'm in it to try and have fun

I also find real time very stressful- also

I might add, the other two were turn based, maybe for a new franchise you could try, but for now maybe keep it TB for this franchise?

candid bolt
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I prefer the turn-based system since I see it as a more organized and clearer mechanic than real-time combat, which could be more chaotic and confusing.

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Furthermore, I see it as correct to add a certain complexity to the combat mechanics but I think that real-time combat would not be the solution

eternal barn
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Eiyuden Chronicle Hundred Heroes has 6v6 fights and that's turnbased. And battles did take long because choosing an action for 6 people can take time. It did have an automatic feature to speed up + speed up battle themselves I believe. Dragon Quest has 4v4 fights 🤔 so a turn based with like 5 or 6 active is possible ngl

maiden compass
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In classical RPGs, turnbased with multiple party members works because each character has a role, they were meant to work together. In monster tamer games, people should use the mons that appeal to them the most, if there is some sort of class system so that mons work well together, you might have to use different teams if you're main mon is at a disadvantage in a specific battle (ex : fire type mon fighting a water team). But I dont think a class system would even work well in a game like nexomon. Unless someone suggests something that makes having more mons battle in a turn based game more interesting (not just saying that it could work, but actually making it interesting to have several mons fight at the same time) if the game is turn based, I think it should be 1vs1

steel fog
maiden compass
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That's for PvP though, in PvP, you do one game and your done, the next you recover all health, pp... It's not the "same game" compared to fighting in the overworld since there isn't a progression system like learning new moves, having access to better items... Theoretically you have everything at your disposal as soon as you start competitive. It would be possible to make this work in a pve setting, but it probably won't be as efficient, given that in a Pokémon playthrough, tacky and support mons don't tend to be that useful

steel fog
maiden compass
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Double or triple battles are usually one offs, like a gym leader or a partner battle, the opponents never use elaborate strategies, no different strategy compared to what you do in base game is required, they're cute gimmicks. If Nexomon wants to make it the standard it wouldn't work/wouldn't be interesting as is

steel fog
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That's a pokemon issue, but not the point: PvE with 3v3 exists

maiden compass
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Sure it exists, the issue is seeing how it could work in N3. If it's a similar system to extinction, making 3v3 battles the norm, wouldn't necessarily make the game better

steel fog
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It's not similar to N2, so much we already know

maiden compass
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All we know is that originally it was going to be real time, now JV is considering turn based due to the feedback of the last thread

steel fog
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And also that it isn't like N2

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Alone the confinements tell us that

maiden compass
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If the game does become turned based, I'd assume that many features designed for real time combat might be reworked or even removed

inland crater
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You just need to find a middle ground

You can make a ai system for the nexomon like dragon age origins where you can "train" them to do certain actions in battle so it won't be overwhelming

Also why do you want to go for more than 4vs4, I don't see any benefit being more than 3vs3 imo

I recommend looking into yaoling real time battle and how total war games do it
You can go this route for more than 4vs4

steel fog
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Yaoling already doesn't work with nearly anything that we of so little know about the battle mechanics

inland crater
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It's about not to make player feel overwhelming or chaotic when using more than 4

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That game does it better

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Imo

steel fog
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Because again, it doesn't work with the little we know of

inland crater
maiden compass
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Hi Lyon 😁

steel fog
inland crater
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It's not really productive to say it won't
Atleast give me why it won't

The problem JVemon said was they were having problems with more than 4vs4 and it was overwhelming and chaotic

I recommended 2 games I know that did a large number of units combat better

steel fog
inland crater
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I already read those
The problem was the same I said above

steel fog
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I also said from the beginning on why

maiden compass
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Confinements are made to stop movement, if the game is turn based, there won't be movement so their whole function will be irrelevant unless it's a grid system, but that would probably be the worse thing to do

steel fog
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Confinements wouldn't work in yaoling as they're stated

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Nor would the 3 skill/battle options

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Nor would it be interactive

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And it would take JV's issue to the next step

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Becoming almost purely cinematic

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In #1279581998771339334 that's the part where he talks about streamers

maiden compass
steel fog
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They do though?

inland crater
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Why are you taking 1:1 with nexomon and Yaoling

The part I asked them to look into was about doing 10vs10 battles
I didn't say anything about confinements

maiden compass
# steel fog They do though?

LITERALLY the first line : Some environmental-like effects that I'm calling Confinements for now, mostly stop movement and might have other effects like

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Turn base = no movement so no they won't work as stated

inland crater
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Confinements are really easy to do

You can break the confinement with a friendly monster or as a player you can remove those

steel fog
steel fog
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Whatever you suggest needs to work in line with what we already have

maiden compass
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Its not clear that it means action, it could easily mean stop nexomon from actually moving so they can't follow you

inland crater
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Also the poll was about real time vs turn based

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It doesn't say anything about confinements

steel fog
steel fog
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And confinements is part of that

maiden compass
# steel fog Follow you?

If mons are in real time, chances are they're going to move on the map instead of just standing still

steel fog
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Why would they do that in RT but not in TB?

maiden compass
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Also, if the fact that it being real time is still undecided (which is probably the biggest mechanic that was "decided") confinements, a very small mechanic is in no way guaranteed

steel fog
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And why would that even matter? Are there skill ranges?

inland crater
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Existing systems are removed or replaced with other systems in game development all the timr

We don't have to consider confinements(secondary mechanic) when we are talking about the primary mechanic about how the monsters interact with each other during battle

steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
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No way, it means everything is possible to change now

steel fog
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Why choose a different mechanic that doesn't works with already Planned mechanics if we can just take a compatibile alternative?

inland crater
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I am out
Good luck with the game coco

steel fog
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It's not like we're out of options

inland crater
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I voted real time
If my suggestions were good please use them

steel fog
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They weren't bad, but would be more complicated than other alternatives, that's all

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Yes, you can throw everything upside down if you want, but fact is, you don't have to, so why should you?

maiden compass
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They could keep it, but it was still in early stages when it was brought up, it hasn't been talked about since, so it might have been removed entirely already, you can't assume it's a definitive

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Anyway, if the game does turn out to be turn based, I still think it shouldn't be multi battle focused, unless you can "juggle" different battles at the same time, but since the fact that it's in 3d and there's an emphasis on moving and traveling, I still think real time suits the overall theme better

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Like you're flying on a bird, you send out some ground nexomon to fight wild nexomon, and you continue to fly while giving them orders, that sounds super cool

hollow tinsel
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Why don't you guys try Pokemon Masters EX battle system? It's real time and you still get to think quick plus even the usage could be replaced with stamina, It's worth checking out at least

maiden compass
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It was supposed to be like masters except the action bar wouldn't be shared, the class system could work, but it might mean that people would have to use specific mons that they don't like to have better teams

steel fog
hollow tinsel
maiden compass
steel fog
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Only if that's the case in the RT system

maiden compass
hollow tinsel
maiden compass
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So if people only like damage dealers for example or only like supports, they'll be at a big disadvantage compared to those who make a balanced team, also accustoming to all play styles will be a nightmare balance wise

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The point of a monster taming game is to use the mons you like

hollow tinsel
maiden compass
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If you don't like using support mons for example

steel fog
hollow tinsel
maiden compass
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Anyway, with that logic, there's always going to be someone who gets shafted so I guess they should play the game as intended

hollow tinsel
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I get ur reasoning but why t's not always a 3v3, it's just mostly multi battles

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It just requires strats and stuff

steel fog
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I also get their reasoning, but the thing is, this will always be an issue regardless of what system you make it

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Any Monster Taming game has this issue

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If you only use Mon you like, say super aggressive ones, then any Player with a balanced team will beat you easily

maiden compass
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That's why I've been saying that if turn base, it should be 1v1, I believe Nexomon to be for more of a casual audience, making the game too complicated would change the target audience (too complicated with elaborate team building instead of using any mons you like)

steel fog
maiden compass
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No the only balance you would need really is type variety like the previous games, you wouldn't need mons that work well together

hollow tinsel
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Jvemon said mostly multi and if the games get more difficult, players should get better at the game, not saying it in an offensive way

steel fog
maiden compass
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It's hard to qualify what a balances team in Nexomon would be besides good type coverage

steel fog
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Role/class Balanced

hollow tinsel
maiden compass
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So basically type coverage

steel fog
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Type coverage should be enough for a simple playthrough

maiden compass
steel fog
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But in PvP and harder challenges, you'd need role/class balance

steel fog
maiden compass
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PvP and harder challenges would be late game anyway, it's more important to focus in how battles would work for most of the game instead of specific circumstances that most players won't even play

hollow tinsel
steel fog
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Then type coverage should be enough to worry, with more balance being helpfull and synergy-giving

hollow tinsel
maiden compass
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Nexomon is mostly a pve game, you can't compare it to gameplay where strategies have been thought up from people with years of experience

steel fog
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At some point, Nexomon is gonna make the cut if it remains successfull

maiden compass
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Sure, but it first needs to have a solid foundation before elaborate strategies, that chances won't come from the Devs but competitive players who find exploits

steel fog
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But for that we need a Basis

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And that basis should be already implemented for PvE so a first wave tweaking can happen before PvP breaks down completely

hollow tinsel
random forge
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No offense to Fate or Tyrant but I feel like you two never have short convos lol

maiden compass
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From what I can tell, the game isn't going to be too tamer battle focused more like hordes of wild Nexomon attacking you so strategy is more about ressource management

hollow tinsel
maiden compass
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I've tried to sell the advantages of the real time battle system, this is my final suggestion on the matter :

  • A manual and auto mode : when you send out a mon, it starts in manual, when you sent out a new mon, the first goes into auto where you select a behaviour (attack all, reserve stamina, backup struggling team mates...) creating a cycle where as you continuously send out mins and only the last one is on manual.

  • Manual mons : to be in manual mode, a mon must be close enough to the player (the player can target a mon to set it as the manual mon)
    When in manual mode, the game is played as if it is turned based, basically the classic 1v1 Nexomon extinction system.

  • Auto mode : mons in auto continuously attack enemies, enemies continuously attack your auto mons. However the attacks used don't deal as much damage as those in manual (maybe 50% ?).

  • How it works: the players main focus is on manual battles but as they're going on, the auto battles are happening in the background. So if a manual mon quickly defeats it's opponent you can choose another enemy to manual battle (even one that was previously fighting an auto mon). On the other hand, you could also "trap" a strong Mon by fighting it in manual and not doing anything, while your other mons fight the weaker mons around it.

I guess there could be shenanigans where you use two mons in manual to gang up on an opponent mon or something or have an auto mon bait a mon into following it so you don't have to deal with a strong opponent. Loads of possibilities but the core of it is what I stated above.

Anyway that's my suggestion adding turn base in a real time game, it's a compromise but it could actually work

hollow tinsel
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K, now jvemon doesn't have to look through all the chats anymore

maiden compass
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Nice thanks

steel fog
maiden compass
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Because it uses both turn based and real time combat

carmine junco
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I personaly thing that real time sounds pretty cool

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But i suppose makes sense that people that played the previous games would have a preference for turn-based

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Both are cool i think

toxic turtle
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the only way i can see real time combat to work for 3v3 or 4v4 is to include what Ross said in the Battle System thread:

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Set individual Nexomon to be either Manual or Auto

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That way healers can be auto as well as defenders. Then you as a player command the main attackers.

hollow tinsel
steel fog
maiden compass
steel fog
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That's still real time combat though? Or do you mean it literally is turn based then? Because that won't work as a concept

maiden compass
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Yes literal turn based, I thought it was clear. Nothing stops it from not working as a concept. Can't be bothered defending it now, either you like it or you don't. But I stated how it could work so there you go

grave surge
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Well, turn based systems are usually simply easier to implement than real time, I think.

Also, while real-time combat might feel like some novelty which could make it actually stand out amongst lot of turn based monster taming games, I really not sure if that fact alone is outweighs the fact what you could make turn based combat be way more comfortable & practical overall, since it is usually the norm for these kind of games, not even monster collecting ones but JRPGs overall🤷

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Then again, you may do both styles of battles actually.

Like when there’s not THAT many mons, it is turn based, and when there’s really lots of them, it is somewhat real time.

Like having a sections where you have to command literally hordes of them against other horde.

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So the turn based battles could be main type of battle, but real time could serve as kinda more rare game-mode

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Also to be frank, overall I am really not a big fan when monster games have REALLY lots of playable mons at the same time to begin with.

I am completely fine with that in your typical JRPGs where they are their own characters with clearly defined roles and all that stuff, but with Monster games in my opinion that is kinda redundant if they don’t also have some clear roles in battle (and usually monster games made in a way where they don’t have that, really)

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Like, if you could basically have 4 of the same mons who have exact same movesets, then what’s even the point of there being four of them? To just rush an enemy with some effective moves? Eh..

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Or if overall mons are not that diverse in their actual moveset to begin with (and they were super samey moveset-wise in Nexomon 2 tbh) so you couldn’t even make them have clear roles anyway..

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Tbh if it works like, for instance, in SMT (in which you command usually multiple mons in battle btw), where mons usually work more like just recruitable characters sometimes with really apparent and strict roles(but with SMT super flexible skill transferring & fusion system you could basically rearrange their roles whatever you want), I’m fine with that.

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Or like Monster Sanctuary, where they also have defined roles with some possible deviations, while in battle you command multiple of them.

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So, at the end of the day, overall I prefer turn based. Multi-mon battles or not.
But also again, I really hope the fact of there’s being multiple controllable mons in a fight will be actually really important to the battle system overall, in one way or another.

maiden compass
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From what I can tell, the ideology of N3 wasn't meant to be a set number of mons vs the same set number of mons. It was supposed to be more like send out as many monsters as you want and deal with the currently visible mons how you like. Given that the main theme is traveling with your companions, where you're supposed to improvise and go with the flow, real time battles are more aligned with this vision. In a turn based system, everything is in a controlled environment and the monsters you control should be the same as the enemies. Personally, I don't think having battles that are purely turn based goes well with the games vision

maiden compass
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Whatever the team decides to do, I will support the game. I just want to point out that I really respect the fact that you guys tried to do something different and not wanting to take the conventional route. Taking risks aren't easy, and a lot of people prefer to stick to what they now and what they feel comfortable with

candid bolt
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In any case, it is appreciated that they ask to know what we think about certain implementations that could be made.

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That is to be appreciated since they give us to understand that they care about what the players want and think.

steel fog
maiden compass
steel fog
maiden compass
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Yes and no

Yes, if there was a 3v3, manual would be turn based and the other 2 would be on auto.

However, in my suggestion the 3v3 would be 3 "individual" battles initially with each mon fighting an individual mon. That is the bread and butter of the system.

But, you could order the 2 auto mons to go after the same Mon so that it becomes a 2v1, that mon could call for help making a 2v2, 2 wild mons could gang up on an isolated auto mon and so forth. For manual, I don't know if having more than one Mon would work because it could defeat the purpose of the system so it's a maybe ?

The "basic" strategy of the system is divide and conquer, send your auto mons to weaken the surrounding mons, they can isolate them, gang up on them... A command system would need to be implemented to make orders more strategic besides just selecting an attack.

While the auto mons are doing there thing, your manual mon quickly defeats it's target, then you can either keep that mon on manual or go find an auto mon and make it your manual so it finishes its fight quicker

steel fog
maiden compass
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Put extremely simply, yes

steel fog
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Then I still ask how would both be weighted to each other?

Real time and turn based both have a progression of time, but it works differently. You have to Weight them in some way to allow a transition

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This becomes a severe issue in the case of 2v1 or 3v2

maiden compass
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In my original message, I stated that fights in auto would do less damage (probably 50%) to compensate

steel fog
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That's not what I mean

maiden compass
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Also there could be an action bar for auto battles

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What do you mean then ?

steel fog
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Both battles have different time progressions

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One has a clock, the other q counter, if you want

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You'll have to weight either to make it compatible

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Otherwise there's no senseful transition between both

maiden compass
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If you're in manual while your mons are on auto, you will use skills accordingly, you want need to think up 10 turns in advance or do a lot of heavy thinking, the strategic part is how you coordinate manual and auto to work together

steel fog
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I'm still on the (virtual) passage of time

maiden compass
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Ok

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If you don't understand with this I don't know what else to say

steel fog
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Maybe take the Example of 2v1, with one of yours being Manual and the other auto

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The Auto one acts in real time while the enemy and manual on Turn based

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You could just sit on your turn and the auto would spam skills without you or the foe acting at all

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To avoid this, you need to weight them in some kind

maiden compass
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Ooooooh that's what you meant? Seriously dude, instead of using fancy words like it needs weight or senseful transition, just say things clearly

steel fog
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That's what weight means though

maiden compass
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Obviously, manual and auto manual mons can't be in the same battle

steel fog
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If you don't understand a term or don't understand it in context, just ask about that word

steel fog
maiden compass
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The way it is balanced is that auto battles have action bars, if a player wants to use a manual mon and 'trap" an opposing Mon while the auto mons deal with the rest, they could, it wouldn't be efficient though

steel fog
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But you did just say that you cannot have a Manual and auto in the same battle, right?

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That's a failure of concept

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Because I'm pretty sure some players would want to do that, and based on the 2 threads Here, the devs seem willing to allow it

maiden compass
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They can't work together, so they each would be considered separate battles

steel fog
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Against the same mon?

maiden compass
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No

steel fog
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In above example

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There's just one foe

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And 2 allies

maiden compass
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If there's only one foe, either you can only use one, or they both are manual, but as soon as another opposing Mon appears, you choose one of them to go into auto and deal with it

steel fog
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So you're restricing the players freedom?

maiden compass
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Are you just trying to be nitpicky for the sake of it ?

steel fog
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No, I'm explaining my issue with your idea

maiden compass
#

You can't have everything possible happen, there has to be limits, its a suggestion, if you know a better idea just propose it

#

If you can have multi battles in manual, auto becomes pointless as a system

steel fog
#

You're right that you have to Limit stuff, but this isn't a required limit.

Moreover, it's a restriction we can do without. There's no need to add it (if unwanted) if there are alternatives that don't have it.

steel fog
maiden compass
steel fog
#

It's a completely voluntary option, after all

#

Players should be able to play entirely without auto, or only through auto, if they wished to

steel fog
maiden compass
#

The suggestion is for manual and auto to work together, if you can use both, people will stick to only manual because it feels like you're actually playing a game. Nobody is going to play only with auto for a slower paced combat, with minimum player interaction required

steel fog
#

Auto is there to easen the player who might be overwhelmed by having to control 3-5 different Mons

#

That way you can auto 2-3 and only actively control 1-2

#

Which is far easier and overseeable than dealing with the whole bunch

maiden compass
#

Ok, but that's not the point of my suggestion, the idea was to alternate between manual and auto for strategic advantage, giving them orders to deal with enemies in a specific way, not just something that players use to train mons without needing to lift a finger

#

Some may prefer it that way, but it's not for me

steel fog
#

Maybe I misunderstood the intention, but I believe what I said is what the Devs goal is, more or less.

They however also wanted to make auto less appealing, as to Not just have everyone Auto all the time, so there's that

maiden compass
#

The Devs original goal was to have real time battle, so I don't know how what you said is their goal?

blissful pelican
#

To be honest i love the battle system that pokemon games use because you have to make a team and train the team IVs etc to be strong for pvp..also its more competitive that way.. for me now without a video i cant understand how this "open" battle is going to work...it seems random to me

#

i know it would be crazy to have real time battles as is on pokemons series. Whoever make a battle system like the pokemon series is going to be legend xd. Generally i dont know if it would be good to have that big number on a fight (4vs4),maybe in online battle, yes that is 2vs2 player and 4vs4 monster battle

#

The reason i cant vote is because i would love to have turn base battles but also i would love to have real time battles but not random chaotic things happening.

maiden compass
#

I would say, turn base used to be the foundation for RPGs, but now, more and more big franchises like final fantasy have more and more real time battles with turn base elements. I still think real time can work while still implementing, turn base mechanics, there's a bunch of ways to do it. It doesn't have to be one or the other

steel fog
maiden compass
#

Oh in that sense, I thought the thing about auto battles wasn't so much about making auto battles a thing, but mostly so that having multiple mons in a real time game be manageable, if there isn't real time, having auto battle just for the sake of it doesn't seem that interesting

grave surge
#

And to be honest, that idea what turn-based systems are somehow obsolete and games should move away from them, it’s just dumb, imo.

maiden compass
#

I only played FF7 remake where I thought they did a good job at doing real time combat. I never said turn base was obsolete, I was using FF as an example to show that some franchises that started off as turn base had games work well in real time battle. I like the fact that the Nexomon Dev team wants to use real time battles, it's rather uncommon in monster taming games. People keep saying to keep it turn base, but the Devs wanted to make something innovative that works with the travelling theme. I dont think real time, is the best system to go with that feeling

toxic turtle
#

I prefer the real time combat for tale of arise then final fantasy 15.

grave surge
#

Well, judging by what is known, the system what they trying to create feels rather weird & cluttered, at least for me.

Also I get it about it being innovative, but at the end of the day as major core mechanic it needs to be enjoyable first. And I’m afraid it easily could result in it being innovative and unique, but not really enjoyable enough.

maiden compass
#

To be fair it was cluttered because it was in testing, the whole point of the discussion was to see how it could work without being so cluttered, but every body only saw a system that doesn't work so wanted something they know will work

grave surge
#

Also, in general, real time or real time/turn based battle hybrid systems works best with games what trying to be fast-paced.

Now, I don’t really know how fast paced this game aim to be to say if it really fits or not. Nor could I say does it fits the tone of the game or not, since ”traveling theme” doesn’t say much in that regard🤷

toxic turtle
#

I wonder if the trials of cold steel combat would work for N3. Some Digimon games have it. RTS combat.

maiden compass
#

Honestly, given the chaotic nature of the first draft, I would assume the game is meant to be fast paced, if it I'd be all for it, I even felt like the 2 nexomon games were more fast paced compared to other monster tamers

steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
#

If the game is turned based, if auto battle is a feature, I probably would hardly use it, unless I'm severely punished

steel fog
#

And you're free to do so

#

It's a choice after all

#

Or at least, should be

maiden compass
#

Always having a choice to do or not do something isn't always the best thing, for example if the auto battle is sub par, I'm not going to think "it's my choice not to use it", chances are I'm thinking "Ew this feature sucks, what was even the point in putting it in the game, waste of effort and other stuff in the game is going to suck too"

steel fog
#

That's not really about having a choice though.

maiden compass
#

What is the choice then ?

steel fog
#

What you said is just about the Feature being awfully made.

#

If it were about the choice then you'd really just think "I don't feel like using it so I won't use it".

maiden compass
#

Fair enough, if the feature is well made id probably use it. But in a turn base setting I'm not sure it would be interesting

toxic turtle
#

A turn base setting can be interesting. Cause there will still be strategy involved. The way the strategy works is by the Nexomon's speed. For example, you don't want all 4 party members to be very slow, or very fast (maybe you want to). Now let's talk about roles. The roles will work the devs just need to implant a more define movepool base on: Attack/Support (buffs & debuffs)/Healer. Here's an examples for a 4 nexomon team:

Example:
Your team consist of two Attackers (one very fast one [role - try to take out one mon] & a slow heavy aio damage dealer [role - takes out the rest]), one support (buffs - defense), and one healer. Your fast attacker goes first, followed by your support adding more defense to your whole team. Then the enemy team will go two times, followed by your healer. Then the enemy will go, then either your or your enemy will go last.
A turn base setting can be interesting. Cause there will still be strategy involved. The way the strategy works is by the Nexomon's speed. For example, you don't want all 4 party members to be very slow, or very fast (maybe you want to).

digital jackal
#

A have a turn-based concept where tamers and yourself can have a powerful move that can only be used once during battle, and you can customise it, like maybe fully reviving a nexomon, dealing a lot of damage, or just applying a good few buffs

random forge
#

... So just EvoCreo?

maiden compass
toxic turtle
maiden compass
#

I'm not saying that the speed part is the issue, I'm saying that if the game is too reliant on roles, it will be a nightmare for the Devs to balance, especially with so many monsters. Also in a turn based scenario, 4v4 sounds like way too much, it would probably be 3v3, assuming you have a party of 6, because in a 4v4 that would mean that you only have 2 mons in your reserve, that doesn't seem like a good design choice

toxic turtle
#

The devs don't need to balance it 100% at all. Just adding more moveset to specific types could work. A more defined movepool.

random forge
#

I'm sorry n2 did not have a good movepool

last echo
#

I'm sorry if the sentences are strange because I'm using a translation site.
Personally, I prefer real-time battles. However, looking at the voting situation, I think it is necessary to include some elements of turn battles.
One of the games I know that has a battle system with two elements is the Mega Man Battle Network Series.
In the previous thread, it was said that there was an idea to allow players to pause/slow down at any time. My proposal is to limit the pause to the beginning of the turn. After selecting a skill or tool, the pause is released. I don't know if the real-time battle will be 10 seconds, 20 seconds, or 1 minute, but after the time has passed, the pause is forced and the turn ends. This time should be a time when additional instructions can be given during the battle, but not too mentally taxing. Skills being used will be carried over to the next turn. During the pause, you check the field situation and make a strategy. By dividing it into turns, I think players will naturally accept the specifications.

#

I have another suggestion.
It's about the idea that the AI ​​is smart and the player doesn't need to give instructions.
As a countermeasure, I would like to make it possible for the trainer to activate techniques that the AI, i.e. the Nexomon's intelligence, cannot understand, with the help of the trainer. This would also differentiate wild Nexomon from the player's Nexomon and Nexomon trained by other trainers.
For example, shorten the time it takes to prepare for skills, make high-powered skills like special moves that Nexomon can't use well on their own and require assistance, give instructions for attacks using map objects like fallen trees or sprinkled water, and give instructions for combination techniques with other Nexomon.
I think combination techniques in particular are a reason to bring out multiple Nexomon to fight, even in turn battles.
As for special moves, I think it would be convincing to have assistance if there were reasons such as Nexomon cannot fully understand them because they are artificial skills, or because they require human tools.

dusk night
dusk night
maiden compass
#

There could be some sort of combo system where the game encourages players to plan out many actions in advance, so you get slightly punished for breaking the chain (but a mon getting ko'd is even worse punishment haha)

dusk night
#

You’re right if you went with a chain and you felt the need to change it then it’s best to give the player the option to cancel it. A suitable punishment would be to allow the opponent to attack first even if they have slower monsters

steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
#

If there isn't any form of punishment or reward for queueing, it would just end up being a management tool, you could just spam the most powerful attack until you run into an inconvenience and just do what you have to do then go back to just having a queue filled with spamming

#

Waiting for a problem to come up doesn't sound like thrilling gameplay... But if there's advantages to strategic thinking, that's more enticing

steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
#

It's not really fine, it sounds like the gameplay would be rather dull in that case. It works but it's not exactly fun

#

Strategic thinking doesn't require acting quickly, you act quickly after you thought strategically

#

That would be considered as tactical thinking 😜

hollow tinsel
toxic turtle
hollow tinsel
toxic turtle
#

It's fine and all for devs to experiment, but if they are have troubles of implanting a feature (or don't know how to do it) at worst it will be half baked.

maiden compass
#

The simple fact of reacting to a situation as it is happening (healing instead of continuing to attack, using a priority move to guarantee the KO...) is tactical thinking

steel fog
#

the good thing about (my) idea of queueing is that it is completely optional and can be ignored as much and easily as it can be used

maiden compass
#

The idea of queuing is good, but if you can just make a chain of the same attack, most people will just activate a buff (like swords dance, and a lot won't even bother) then chain the max number of attacks and wait to see until it doesn't work anymore (because they have to heal, the enemy mon is dead...)

#

But if they are rewarded like if they queued the exact number of attacks to KO the enemy, they receive more monster drops for example, it rewards players for getting better at the game and correctly calculating the required number of attacks

#

QoL features are good, but for the games core mechanic (battles) I feel that encouraging people to get better at using the system is better then giving them the choice of either using it or not using it

steel fog
#

the queuing allows for players to play it almost like a real time combat system, while also allowing a turn per turn basis

maiden compass
#

If you try to make everyone happy, nobody will be.

If players don't want to plan in advance, they're not really demotivated, they just don't get a bonus. Learning to get better at a game is part of the fun.

Between complete freedom to do whatever you want and a more fun experience, fun is always better

steel fog
#

not getting a bonus for playing the way you like is demotivating

grave surge
#

Tbh queuing feels kinda really unwieldy for actual real time combat especially..

Like, it all happens in real time so the variety of possible responses from enemies are much less predictable than it could have been in turn based combat, so making plans & elaborate queue of actions in advance won’t be really that effective anyway (since most likely even just slight deviation from enemy action will just make it all fall like a card house)

maiden compass
#

Queuing is effective because you're controlling several monsters so it allows you to manage them better in a real time setting (FF 12 done this in a fashion)

grave surge
maiden compass
#

In turnbase, the enemy is still rather predictable, they're not going to throw in some crazy trick that you didn't expect and counters you're strategy like in PvP, being predictable doesn't necessarily mean easy

steel fog
maiden compass
#

Well my suggestion is implementing a challenge so that its not just an optional feature

maiden compass
#

So far, from what we've seen of the game, it looks like its only challenge is how you manage your mons

toxic turtle
#

There's nothing wrong with that. Honesty speaking, the devs should just skip real time battle for N3 in favor of turn base combat. The devs can include a 'skip animation' option or a 'speed up' option (FF9 had this). Forcus more & more resources in movesets and diversity between nexomon types and stats instead.

Then for N4 revisit real time battle if you want, but watch & learn on how real time battle is by researching it. You can mostly likely ask some devs on how they made real time battle and how it was implanted.

maiden compass
#

If the Devs decided to implement rtb as the main feature I highly doubt, they done it without researching it beforehand

toxic turtle
#

Ya they are definitely doing it. But for a creature catching game it's completely different from an RPG.

prime girder
#

My Vote is Turn based, as that's just what I prefer in creature collecting games.

But, unless I skimmed too fast, I didn't see several notable Real Time/mixed combat systems mentined. Those being the Xenoblade series (mainly Xenoblade 2), Dragon age 2/3, Ni No kuni 2, Atelier Ryza 3, and Some of the "Tales of" games.

#

that being said, for funnsies I think video demos of each of the combat systems would be a fun thing to unlock in the vain of concept art.

steel fog
random forge
#

I feel like I'm losing brain cells with this whole thread

dusk night
#

You’re not the only one

steel fog
#

Too complicated or too much in general?

dusk night
#

Neither of those it’s impossible you and Fate not to have unnecessary long debate sometimes it’s on trivial things which aren’t important at all

maiden compass
#

Ill admit I have a hard time not defending my ideas, I try to avoid getting out of hand, but some times I get a bit caught in the moment

toxic turtle
#

It can happen to all of us

steel fog
maiden compass
#

You have to admit, you often get hung up on minor details

steel fog
#

Sometimes, but not often

#

But minor can still be important

#

As it's said, the devil lies in the detail

random forge
#

Don't argue about what you argue about

steel fog
#

Why are you doing that then?

maiden compass
#

The devil lies in the detail of a final product, when something is still on going, details are the first thing to be changed

steel fog
#

What are you talking about?

maiden compass
#

You said the devil lies in the details, I'm saying the details aren't that important until more important elements of gameplay are assured

steel fog
#

Still don't get it. What elements of gameplay?

maiden compass
#

Basically just bouncing off of what you said here

maiden compass
#

If there is a small issue, there are work arounds, trying to fix that issue straight when other factors that are implicated with that small issue just means that the whole system can change so finding solutions for the overall system is more important then fixating on details

steel fog
# maiden compass This

...is a generalized statement.

Not sure how you fit in any elements of sorts in it tho, but alright.

maiden compass
#

Because you're supposed to figure out the details later

steel fog
#

Again, I don't see the relation to what you're saying, it has nothing to do with figuring out or so. But it's fine.

random forge
#

Guys please

hollow tinsel
#

I didn't rily see the fate and tyrant of time argue thing before but I see it now.

#

In hindsight, N3 prob has time travel and the wheel of fate, maybe those concepts work together or not in N3... Possible theory I guess

steel fog
#

some people consider the concept of non-linear time and fate to be contradictive, others say that one cannot exist without the other

#

of course, the truth is much less linear

hollow tinsel
#

Why does that sound so much like a Nexomon Sentence

#

I personally think it's the latter

maiden compass
#

Just to clarify, I don't believe in fate, I think you make your own luck and what happens to you is a result of your actions and choices.

I chose the name because it's a wordplay on my IRL name and I thought it sounded cool lol

hollow tinsel
#

Ok, I was just realizing the connection between u guys arguments and how it works in Nexomon

random forge
#

yerp

hollow tinsel
#

But I think we should get back on track with the battle stuff, even tho there's a 99% chance for it to be turn-based

steel fog
#

The only Fate I believe in is that everything that begins, also has to end at some point

open folio
#

Guys the hype for this game is overwhelming. I actually can’t wait any longer I want to die

maiden compass
#

Seriously? Like I enjoy the franchise, but there hasn't been that much that's been revealed, it hasn't been hyped up that much, there isnt even a release window

spice dome
#

Let people hype themselves. Nothing wrong with being excited.

maiden compass
#

It was mostly the "I can't wait any longer I want to die" that I felt was a bit much, I'm excited too, but it's going to take a while to release

steel fog
#

and if it's a bit much, as long as they don't take it literally, it's a good thing

maiden compass
#

I just don't like it when people take death lightly, but that's probably just a me thing

deep rock
#

I did like atb for ff9 but I had it on wait so if I go into a menu, it pauses. Dynamic was similar to wait but they would perform action as you chose your action. I chose real time but I would prefer turn based. I wouldn't want a drastic change from nexomon 1 and 2. I'd be up for a change for a spin off or different title.

fast hare
#

I agree that I prefer turn-based myself, more time to think. That being said, ATB-like systems are fine, as are different turn-based systems a la Pokemon Legends Arceus and the Digimon Story series (including Digimon World Dawn/Dusk). Even from a marketing standpoint however, Nexomon has always been turn-based so peeps outside the more hardcore fan community will probably expect N3 to be turn-based as well.

thorn aspen
#

I comprehend the necessity behind the Realtime battle system for the question of the Open world , design and gameplay . However like @fast hare said , the biggest part of the community fan love mostly Nexomon for his turn-based system and expect for it as well . So , why not process by a mid Turned-based system and a mid Realtime system , like a Metaphor refantazio but with the Nexomon DNA .
In my opinion , I think it would fludify or multiply the gameplay and brand a new way strategy option .
Thanks for your reading ✨️

maiden compass
#

I suggested something similar, being inspired by metaphor, where you would have a turn base battle that you control manually and real time auto battles that happen in the background that you give commands to, where you can alternate between the real time and turn base battles on the go for a strategic advantage, but no one liked the idea

grave surge
#

Isn’t Metaphor simply gonna have real time combat for lower level enemies & turn based for even leveled or higher leveled ones?

#

And it’s real time combat is seems to be just action combat, not really anything automated

obsidian meadow
# obsidian meadow
poll_question_text

For a 3D monster capture with mostly multi-battles, do you personally prefer

victor_answer_votes

96

total_votes

133

victor_answer_id

1

victor_answer_text

Turn-Based

obsidian meadow
#

Well, it was actually not as overwhelming as I expected

steel fog
#

Since the Palworld has been blowing up recently, people have been looking into what the patents would be that TPC is suing over. One possibility is this one. It's basically the overworld interaction of Pokemon introduced in PLA, ergo throwing a Pokeball to catch a Pokemon in the overworld, outside battle; and throwing a Pokemon at a Pokemon to initiate a fight.

I'm not sure how close the new mechanics come to this, but just to be safe, I'd advise to specifically not have these mechanics in the game, in this form.

While I couldn't care less (or could care less? I never know how the Expression works) about Palworld, Nexomon is a franchise I enjoy and wouldn't want to see it in the Situation they are in right now, regardless of whether it is right or wrong.

dusk night
#

It’s too early to speculate we don’t know what Patent TPC and Nintendo are using to sue Palworld

#

Some people are saying it’s the catching mechanic others are saying it’s ride Pokémon mechanic they introduced in legends Arcues

#

even when pocketpair released a statement to respond they said they still don’t want what patent is being used against them

steel fog
#

while yes, it's not too early to warn around so other don't fall down like Palworld did

#

i don't think it is ride though because that's a too unspecific mechanic and also very ancient as one

dusk night
#

Another important thing is that pocket pair are based in Japan and the law in Japan is different compared to the rest of the world

steel fog
#

that's true

dusk night
#

So even if Palworld is gone games like Nexomon should be safe

steel fog
#

i'm just calling for caution here because better safe than sorry

dusk night
#

Of course nothing wrong with that

steel fog
#

i'm sure the devs can get counseled on the specifics through lawyers themselvs

#

if they deem it important that is

#

i'm just pointing it out for safety

#

Like I said, I could/couldn't care less about Palworld but Nexomon is a franchise I'd like to survive for a very long time

toxic turtle
#

Nintendo doesn't have a case for copyright so Nintendo filled a patent in May of 2024.

Kinda messed up, considering Nintendo pretty much did this because palworld is doing better then pokemon.

random forge
#

No it is not

#

I don't love palworld but that is a lie

toxic turtle
#

What is

maiden compass
# steel fog Since the Palworld has been blowing up recently, people have been looking into w...

Fyi, the correct term is "I couldn't care less", "I could care less" is commonly used by Americans because British people have a tendency to not fully enunciate words (so it sometimes sounds like they are saying 'I could care less" because the "'nt" is very soft and barely hearable) and Americans misheard the expression and think it's sounds cool in a nutshell. Grammatically "I could care less" means that you do care about something, because there is the possibility of you caring less (you need to care to be able to care less). Albeit some expressions don't make any sense or can actually mean something else than what would be assumed so its understandable that a lot of people say "I could care less" even though that it is wrong

#

Tldr : I couldn't care less is the correct expression

steel fog
#

It was for some reason re-filed in 2024 though

#

Also, no, Palworld is not doing better.

steel fog
maiden compass
#

No worries, next time it happens, just think logically, one of them makes sense not the other

hollow tinsel
maiden compass
#

Given the hot shot lawyers Pokémon probably has, if Pokémon waited until now to sue Pal world, my money is on the fact that they found something that they didn't like, because, from a gameplay perspective, Pal world doesn't take to much from Pokémon. For Pokémon to sue Pal world, instead of Nexomon for example, who arguably has a lot more similarities to Pokémon compared to Pal world, they definitely found something that pissed them off. Either that or it's a massive publicity stunt, but Pal world hype has pretty much dyed down now and Pokémon really doesn't need that, so I'd definitely put my money on Pal world having done something that pissed Pokémon off

hollow tinsel
#

Yeah that's true but Nexomon's growing popularity could mean smth might have to be changed

maiden compass
#

There are other games like coromon and temtem that use the same formula, temtem definitely became popular enough to catch Pokemon's attention, so if they are sueing palworld, it's for something very specific

hollow tinsel
#

Yeah, probably

dusk night
#

Not probably I’m certain if TPC found a way to sue TemTem then they would have already

spice dome
#

Guys, the Nexomon franchise is on its third game already (fourth including Micromon) and has been technically been around for a decade.

random forge
#

I would be glad if there weren't any more games, personally. As long as there's not too many loose ends by the end

#

There's so long a story can go before it's starting to disconnect

#

It isn't happening yet but 4 is a scary number

dusk night
#

The gap between 1 and extinction is enough to make several games if you can’t move the story forward then you can always flesh out the past and already established lore

random forge
#

That^

hollow tinsel
#

Pretty cool game

hollow tinsel
spice dome
#

Most people are speculating that the patent infringement case (not copyright) filed by Nintendo was pointing to the Legends Arceus catching mechanic. But I believe Nexomon 3 does it differently.

#

In a recent interview, even the Palworld developers don’t know what patent have been infringed.

maiden compass
#

The story from the beginning was pokemon fans complained that palworld used designs too similar to Pokémon so they opened up an investigation, now that they've finished the investigation, they're sueing, even though, without the fans complaining, they didn't even want to sue (from my understanding at least). Maybe it's to make an example out of them, like "don't make fun of Pokémon" or something

steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
# maiden compass The story from the beginning was pokemon fans complained that palworld used desi...

Well, two things about it:

  1. They're suing for patent infringments. I'm not sure it they'd point out copyright seperately if it's both, but that means it's more than just copyright stuff. Though it could possibly be about design patents.
  2. I think they just made the statement so the fans would shut up. It was surely very annoying to be kept getting pinged and asked about it, but that doesn't mean they didn't wanted to investigate before anyways.
spice dome
#

But anyway, we’ll just be spouting speculations. And since this topic is about the battle system, Nexomon 3 obviously has a different mechanic than Pokemon.

maiden compass
#

Fair enough, it's just that I can't see what it is specifically that they are attacking them with. Since the main reason Pokémon fans were complaining was because the models looked too similar, I thought it could be about that

spice dome
#

Concerns are totally understandable

steel fog
maiden compass
#

You mean like trying to stop palworld through a technicality because the don't have enough legal ground to stop them for what they really want ?

grave surge
# maiden compass The story from the beginning was pokemon fans complained that palworld used desi...

I mean, they literally use models with extreme level of similarity to some Pokemon models, where the difference to the actual model is what they either really just kitbashed Pokemon models, or the artist somehow managed to recreate them almost pixel-perfect to the Pokemon models..

Don’t really care for Pokémon as a franchise nowadays, but that’s all is quite sketchy..

IMO, way more sketchy than just having similar catching to PLA🤷

#

And besides, do PLA really have anything unique in it’s catching? I mean, it’s super simple and not really THAT innovative of a concept..

maiden compass
#

Honestly at this point, it's mostly just a wait and see what happens kind of situation

steel fog
steel fog
toxic turtle
#

Game mechanics should have never been patentable.

steel fog
#

Agreed.

gilded sinew
magic parcel
#

since JV said most battle are multi and if the game ends up realtime, I prefer the battle to be a mix of auto battle and realtime command

random forge
#

I heavily prefer turn based

#

No Offense, make a different game series if you want to throw the formula out the window?

maiden compass
#

I respect the fact that they're trying to do something new, understandably, many are used to turn based and would be put off by another system. I think the major issue, is that from what was shown, there isn't the same feeling that you get when playing nexomon. If there was a way to make real time work while still having that nexomon feeling. It could work, the problem is, that's A LOT easier said then done

wet jolt
#

I was really looking forward to seeing what the realtime system would be like simply because monster tamers are really really saturated with turn-based combat systems and this would've been so fresh.
ig videogame players really don't like innovation as much as they say.

wet jolt
wet jolt
steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
#

For the realtime battle system, honestly, as it was presented, it didn't seem enjoyable. Since that was the reference for real time, people wanted to go back to turn base. As it was, it seemed really chaotic, like too much was going on and hard to follow and felt like the player didn't have much input in the battle

#

Out of curiosity, for people that would like to return to turn based, would you like the battles to still be multi battle or be single battles again ?

steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
#

For the real time system, I think the main issues are mostly about player input (what can the player do in battle), visibility on the screen (maybe limit the number of mons that can battle to 3 at a time for better control) and if a mon is going to spam the same attack, what's the point in making it in real time (if using 3x fireball in real-time is the same as using fireball one in turn based ? it's pretty much the same thing, it's just a numbers game)

outer spruce
#

Aw man, sad I missed this poll. 😞 I've been waiting for more creature games with real time and enjoyed some games recently that have this style over turn based, but looks like that won't be possible in Nexomon 3 anymore since the turn based poll was so much higher. 😮‍💨

cursive quarry
#

I think the game should be turn based

dapper egret
#

I do NOT like slow battle systems. legends arceus was perfect, snappy, and felt quick despite being turn based. I like Palworld where your creatures simply battle alongside you and use their own moves you choose ahead of time.

#

So whatever you do...avoid it being slow. Please. It takes me out of the game it really breaks immersion.

#

I couldn't even do the BDSP remakes because the battles felt like a slog

hollow tinsel
#

I'd like that no matter the battle system, it should be quick, I know that can be difficult with 3D cause of the animations but I like how N2 did it, they skimmed through the chats on screen and made it quick

toxic turtle
#

An option to speed up the battle animation or a skip battle animation would be a good idea, even both.

hollow tinsel
#

Yeah, I'm sure it would be an appreciated feature

blazing burrow
#

I would definitely love to see real time battle! I think it would be a bang to bring this out.💪🏻 And I know many ppl would love it. I beg you do real time. 😍

toxic turtle
#

The poll has ended and turned base won.

hollow tinsel
#

Yeah

spice dome
#

Even if the poll has ended, feel free to say your preference.

toxic turtle
#

True. I just think it's a good idea to focus on getting the hang of 3D first before switching the whole battle around to real time.

maiden compass
#

If the game does take the turn based battle, how would it work ? Because I wouldn't be surprised if many people who voted it to be turn based want it to go back to 1v1 or maybe, the new take on the turn based system won't convince everyone. With enough hindsight, maybe there could be a new poll, but with a general idea of how the mechanics would work in a turn based scenario and how they would work in a real time scenario so everyone can make an informed decision

random forge
#

I think people just like turn based because that's the core point of the franchise

maiden compass
#

Technically the core point of the franchise is monster taming

eternal barn
#

Personally turn based works for 1v1, 2v2 and 3v3. But I don't exactly know what JV actually planned for the battle system

maiden compass
#

Yes of course it can work with more mons on the field. Since originally, several mons like 4v4, maybe even more were expected in real time based combat, the point I was trying to make was to see if the people who wanted turn base, were fine with any number of mons on the field (which MIGHT be a problem because battles COULD be at a slower pace since more mons are involved which requires a different play style and team building) or if the "purists" that want the battle system to be similar to the other nexomon also want it to stay 1v1

#

Basically I imagine that there are 3 player profiles (I may be wrong) :

  • People who want the real time battle system for the innovation aspect
  • People who are open to changing the battle formula, like having more than 1v1, but want turn base over real time
  • People who want the general feel of the game to be the same and prefer a 1v1 battle system
#

I'm for the change to real time, but if the game were to go for the turn based system, I would prefer it to be 1v1

toxic turtle
maiden compass
#

It's not so much that the battle animations make it slow (although that is a factor) but mostly the fact that you (and the opponent) control 4 mons so have to select attacks for each of them every turn. Not saying that it's necessarily bad, but depending on how an actual battle works, it could feel slow paced

#

I don't have a lot of experience with monster tamers with several mons on the field at once, but I feel like, until one mon is ko'd, it's pretty much the same (attack the mon you want, most of the time several or even all of them instead of focusing on one at a time). When one of the mons is ko'd, it gives a huge advantage to the team who has a full roster and it's kinda hard to make a comeback.

#

Since the core battle system is subject to change, I think it's best that we have a general feel of what it can end up being so that we can make an informed decision, besides the real time system, which looks a bit messy for the time being, weve just gotten abstract information and assumptions

steel fog
#

Ah sorry, forgot to turn of the ping

maiden compass
#

Yeah that's for the real time system, I was mostly talking about how the system would work in turn based. I don't see the point of only controlling 1 Mon and the others being AI in turn base

steel fog
maiden compass
#

Exactly, we don't know how a turn based system would work, that's why I asked that a new poll should be made with a better understanding of how everything would work, now that there is more hindsight

#

Personally, I think having some mons be AI in a turn based system would be a terrible idea

steel fog
maiden compass
#

It's not like the game is at the beginning of its development cycle, and you can't say they are doing a top down approach when you keep saying they should keep the features that have already been announced

steel fog
#

So yes, I can keep saying that and also think they go a top down approach. Nothing bad with that.

maiden compass
#

For example, having AI control your teammates is a really bad idea in a turn based system. That's what they done in persona 3, it was infuriating, so even though some features work in both, since they were designed with real time battle in mind, they should at least be reworked or dropped completely

steel fog
#

Anyways, reworking and dropping stuff still is compatible with top down approaches.

maiden compass
#

The only way it can be useful is if the whole party is on auto battle, and it's used to speed up grinding. I can't see a scenario where controlling one of your mons and the others being controlled by AI is a good thing. It would be counter intuitive since the player would have to adapt to the choices the AI makes instead of the AI accomodating the player. It makes strategizing a lot more complicated

steel fog
random forge
#

Can we not argue until we know what it's going to be

maiden compass
#

In a turn based system

steel fog
#

in a 4v4 where you'd otherwise have to control 4 different monsters at the same time, which can easily be overwhelming and you lack control and overview over it

#

the AI will be able to handle some allowing you to focus on others, allowing a better experience when battling

#

It's also a good idea when you want to relax a bit and not have to think for multiple monsters

#

or just whenever you want, it's an option, ultimately

#

you can take it or not

#

and if you don't, other might still do

maiden compass
#

But since it's turned based, you don't control several at a time, you control one at a time, also the AI might (probably often) choose an attack that doesn't benefit your situation so you'll have to think even more on what to do make up for it. When you want to relax, it would be better to just have your entire team on auto

steel fog
#

it's turn based but still a 4v4, you control 4 monsters fighting 4 different monsters

#

the same applies on a 3v3, except, well... it's 3 and 3

maiden compass
#

yes but you select what each one does one at a time

magic parcel
#

I don't read above msg but I think in case of 4v4 being common it's better if the turn based is like most jrpg instead of poke-like

steel fog
maiden compass
#

There's 2 possibilities they can take, either you select ALL mons attacks in one turn, or you select a mons attack when it is their turn (it's Acegon's turn you choose fireball, Acegon instantly uses fireball, then its Phantra's turn who choose an attack)

#

Whatever the case, i can't understand how having SOME of the mons on your team being on AI is useful. It should be either none or all of them for speed up

steel fog
#

because then some you won't have to deal with, allowing you to focus on others

#

it's to assits you on managing the potentially too many monsters in a battle

#

instead of having to worry about 4, you only need to control 1 or 2

maiden compass
#

But you still have to worry about them, and nothing guarantees that the AI makes the right call. As I already said, they done this in Persona 3, everybody hated the feature, when it became optional, nobody used it because it just made decision making more complicated

steel fog
#

Auto usually doesn't do the most efficient choices, but its choices shouldn't be too grave either, but that's an excecution thing anyways.

#

And as said, it's optional (at least in the way I understood), so you don't have to use it

maiden compass
#

If you are in a 4V4 fight, you cant pretend that 2-3 of your mons arent there anymore because you can blindly trust the AI. Also choosing between 4 moves (even more) is far from being daunting. Why spend time and ressources on a feature that nobodt will use ?

steel fog
#

they're still there, they're just not to worry anymore because they're autonomous

steel fog
#

hell, I don't need to explain to you why it's useful or even a good thing to exist in the first place, if you can't see it, simply don't use it. Just know that you're not the only person that exists and others can succeed where you failed, and will find uses for it even if you don't. and that's still fine because you can play through the whole game without using it while we can play the whole game while using it.

maiden compass
#

Well i gave you an example of this exact feature being implemented and the very bad feedback it received, everybody that played the game hated it. It may work in nexomon if there is a specific reason, but i'm not convinced and i'll leave it at that

steel fog
#

there's a lots of good features where you can find bad excecutions of

#

and again, you don't have to be convinced or use it, others will, and that's all for it

maiden compass
#

There hasnt been a case of it being well executed in a turn based system. If you think its a good idea, fair enough. But until there is an example of it being implemented in a way that is actually useful. I would even say if there was a way that it can be implemented and not be a hinderance then I'll accept that I was wrong

steel fog
#

there hasn't been a case of which we know of. A quick google search led to threads and forums containing alleged examples of good auto in turn based combat, but alleged because i didn't play them myself so i can't confirm. In any case, simply because we don't know it exists doesn't mean it doesn't exist, nor that it is impossible to exist.

#

but we'll see how things goes, who knows, maybe this game will be the very first game we both know that excecutes it well

maiden compass
#

Auto in turn based isnt the issue, I would be all for auto, its the fact that some of the mons would be on auto while others will be on manual that I cant get my head around. Anyway i digress

magic parcel
#

I think auto in turn based is bad especially in monster taming

#

you own the mon, why would AI take control of it

#

for realtime the auto could be limited to normal attack and set parameters

#

since which alien could control multiple mon in realtime battle without help of auto

maiden compass
#

Auto in turn based only works as a speed up/skip battle feature IMO

dapper egret
magic parcel
#

auto in turn based just feels like auto battler

magic parcel
dapper egret
#

Okay that makes sense! I think no matter what, that these devs will do well what with ever they go with

#

I really liked Nexomon 1 and 2 so I can see them kicking ass again especially since they are not rushing things

magic parcel
#

yeah I just hope dev working on the game as they envisioned it at first instead of following what the community wants and being driven into another boring game

dapper egret
#

There's definitely a balance to that

magic parcel
#

yeah it doesn't mean to turn off everything the community suggest

#

just be selective, there are things to follow what is envisioned and not everything that has been envisioned is perfect so..

steel fog
steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
#

No point reopening this debate, but they asked the community about it when it was for real time battle, because it's impossible to manually control all nexomon in a real time system at the same time. It is possible to control all your nexomon at the same time in a turn base system, so adding it in turn base wouldn't answer the same issue

magic parcel
#

we don't even know if stamina is still a thing and if cool down is a new thing or anything so it's really hard to suggest without seeing what's the current state

magic parcel
steel fog
steel fog
magic parcel
#

that's literally what I said

grave surge
#

The reason why I myself don’t really like the idea of real time battles in party/monster taming RPGs is because if it is real time AND there is many mons/characters on your side, it just HAVE to have some sort of automatic feature what makes them do something while you don’t issue them commands.

Whereas I simply prefer having full control over what my monsters/characters do at any point of the battle in party/monster taming RPGs, and having them execute their moves whenever I myself feel like it and not in the middle of some chaotic brawl.

So, basically I just like more chess-like approach for games with big parties of playable characters🤷

maiden compass
#

No point in including an optional feature that doesn't have any demand, so to settle this, we can see if people actually want it to appear

#

Please put a thumbs up if you would like to see partial auto in a turn based system (you only select the attacks of one or two of your mons, the others wouod be controlled by AI). Put a thumbs down if you wouldn't use this feature

#

Put a thumbs up if you would like the possibility of FULL auto, basically fast forward through battles. A thumbs down if you wouldn't use the feature

#

Personally I might use full auto, but I would never use partial auto. I put the emoji for both so that it's easier for people to vote

grave surge
#

As others said before, in TurnBased combat any kind of auto battle is more suitable simply to be ”auto clear” option when you just need to get through some weak enemies quick.

Any other kind of auto battle, again, I won’t really like since I like to have precise control over what my party does (especially when party is 3+ characters at a time)

maiden compass
#

Please put your answers in the poll then, because otherwise this'is just going to end up going in circles

grave surge
#

Honestly I’m fine even if there’s no auto at all in turn based

#

Instead they could give an option to speed up whole battle animations or simply have whole menuing be snappy and fast so people won’t even consider it boring enough to need any auto modes.

maiden compass
#

That's fair

magic parcel
#

escape button exist in case of turn based ig

steel fog
maiden compass
#

The point of the poll is to see if people would use it as an optional feature. If no one would actually use it, no point going on about it, I would prefer the Devs to focus on features that are actually interesting instead of allocating ressources to an optional feature that nobody would use in the first place

steel fog
#

Why are you polling it as an active feature if you testing it as an optional feature?

maiden compass
#

Also please put a thumbs down if you WOULDN'T use this feature (so you have the CHOICE to USE it OR NOT use it)

random forge
#

Can we just shake hands to stop arguing about this until the next combat update

steel fog
#

There's also a difference between not wanting an optional feature and not using an optional feature

maiden compass
#

Please explain the difference between an active feature and an optional feature then because I really don't understand what you are talking about

#

If people don't use a feature, they aren't going to want it. If there is the inclusion of an optional feature it's because somebody actually wants to use it at some point

maiden compass
steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
maiden compass
steel fog
steel fog
maiden compass
#

I said that we should poll to see if there was a demand for this OPTIONAL feature. I asked if people would use this OPTIONAL feature. Please explain to me at what point I said it would be active/forced ?

steel fog
#

You proposed to things, full auto, or partial auto. There's no optionality in this. If you're using Auto, it's either of both.

maiden compass
#

Yes both or either as optional features

steel fog
#

That's not optional then

maiden compass
#

Uhm because you have the option not to use them?

steel fog
#

You merely have the option to turn it on or not, Not the option to actually set it

#

Optional would be it you could individually turn every Mons Auto on and off whenever you want

#

There's no partial or full

#

It's just on or off, for every mon individually

random forge
#

Can we shelf this debate please

maiden compass
#

Yeah seriously it's not making any sense at all

random forge
#

On each update it's 1 cm of update and then 1000 texts between you two, at this point you're going in circles

#

Agree to disagree, atleast until the next update

steel fog
random forge
#

SHELF.

steel fog
maiden compass
#

Explain very simply what is the difference between turning auto on and off and setting it

random forge
#

May I request future dev updates to have a chat cooldown of 1 day

steel fog
steel fog
# random forge May I request future dev updates to have a chat cooldown of 1 day

Holy cow, you don't have to be here. We are having a civil discussion here about how the game could be designed, to Serve as feedback and also guideline for the devs if they're looking for one or need one. And if not, then it doesn't matter anyways.

Just ignore this and move on if you don't want to deal with it, or contribute to it. Complaining about a thread looking for a discussion about design choices and system workings isn't exactly productive.

maiden compass
steel fog
#

I'd not want to use any of your suggested set-ups either, but an actually optional, fully customizeable one, I'd not mind using

maiden compass
#

Its not necessarily pre-chosen, it's because most people are used to having auto be for the whole team so it was to show that not the whole team would be on auto

#

Anyway I'm not interested in partial auto, it was to give a chance and see if people would like some form of partial auto battle. I'm not going to bother discussing this further

steel fog
maiden compass
#

Personally I don't think I would even use full auto anyway, definitely not in between so it's really not important

wet jolt
wet jolt
#

As much as I wish real-time was given a shot, I think real-time would've been very difficult to make work with multibattles. You'd kinda have to choose between one or the other.

steel fog
dapper egret
# wet jolt Fair, but it can just get tiring when nearly every monster tamer game is ALSO a ...

I kinda don't have time or space anymore for a game that is "stop start stop start" and so something like PLA or Palworld is fast paced enough for me to keep attention in battle but I couldn't get through Octopath Traveler for this turned based style because I found it tedious after a while despite the drop dead gorgeous graphics (maybe this is what it means to outgrow a style of game? I am actually unsure here)

wet jolt
# steel fog That might have a reason, don't cha think?

Well probably 2. One is the wild success and popularity of Pokemon (Literally the highest grossing media franchise in the world) and it being the poster-child for monster tamers means that a lot of others are likely to draw from that established formula.
The other is the inherent trickiness in trying to make a combat system where the player character usually does not participate.

grave surge
# wet jolt Well probably 2. One is the wild success and popularity of Pokemon (Literally th...

Well, Monster taming games in general (especially if they utilize more than one monster at a time or even whole team at once) are more akin to party-based RPGs, or even tabletop RPGs. And I believe for those type of games - turn based combat systems are just a must have, since if it isn’t turn based it might as well just be an RTS where your units acts on their own, not an RPG where you command some party of monsters🤷

#

Also what’s funny is, I remember dev talked about considering battles be like in Pikmin.. So the RTS approach apparently really was on their minds..

But honestly, I really not a big fan of those..

steel fog
maiden compass
#

The whole point of monster taming is to have and use a bunch of mons on a team. It's just easier to do this in a turn based system. Most RPGs used a turn based system to allow the use of several party members. There have been exceptions like the tales of games that use real time combat (although they use combo systems so it's almost like a fighting/rpg hybrid). Nowadays more and more RPGs that use parties are using real time combat, I'm guessing some monster taming games that want to use real time are already in development. I don't know any real time monster taming games (besides Palworld I guess) so maybe there needs to be one example of a real time monster taming game that was good, so that people can see how it could be well implemented

wet jolt
# maiden compass The whole point of monster taming is to have and use a bunch of mons on a team. ...

It's worth noting that almost no real-time combat RPGs have the player-controlled character be a non-combatant. If you look at Final Fantasy 7 Remake, you switch control between party members to do specific things while the others go off of their AI.
But in a monster tamer where you don't equip the tamer with weapons or anyway to fight for themselves, that becomes much harder to figure out.

So I'm not saying I don't understand why we're going back to turn-based combat, I'm just saying I wish we were more willing to find a way to hash-out those problems and give it a shot.
Granted, I'm not making this game so I'm not really the one who actually has to do the heavy lifting of figuring things out so I know it's a bit selfish of me.

hushed atlas
#

I wish battle were simlars to monster rancher 3

magic parcel
#

why would the monster I adore had to die from old age smh my head

dry pilot
#

My insight is that you could do both if you felt so inclined and allow both types of battle systems to co-exist for the OG players who prefer the Turn based system and the people who may enjoy real-time battles, it’ll expand your audience if you give them the option to choose at the beginning of the game! It is incredibly hard to develop a game so choosing one system is the best option but it WOULD be cool to see both implemented.

maiden compass
#

Definitely way too complicated to do

dry pilot
#

Okaaaay

steel fog
#

Also twice the work, and even more if you account balancing

deep rock
#

Could just make a second game also

maiden compass
#

They've already been struggling a lot making this one lol

wet jolt
dry pilot
lilac estuary
#

if you guys make it real time then the game would be TOO good and you would be sued like palword is being

steel fog
#

not if they don't infrict any patents to be sued on

fresh oar
lilac estuary
steel fog
#

They're about very specific implementations of mechanics

#

Implement them differently, and you're safe

spark crater
#

I hope we keep the CORE mechanic 🙏🏼

steel fog
#

We don't

#

It'll be replaced by a more diverse Equipment system

spark crater
#

I see but we never know

steel fog
#

It was told to us by the devs

maiden compass
#

It's not like it was a ground breaking mechanic, definitely more they could do with a more elaborate equipment system

spark crater
#

I just want it to come out at least by February

eternal barn
#

Lol. Good joke. It's going to release on February 30th

spark crater
#

Again, we never know just saying

maiden compass
#

I can assure you, the game won't release in February

spark crater
#

Mhmm

#

I’m really hoping we get to keep the Core tbh🙏🏼

hollow tinsel
spark crater
#

I like the mining grind

spark crater
#

I’m still wondering what are the new types!

hollow tinsel
flint fern
spark crater
#

Into an Arcane? What you mean by that ?

#

And again whenever know, it could be released this year

eternal barn
#

If they'd have a release date, JV would have literally announced it already

#

It'll release in 3000 years 👍🏻

spark crater
#

😂😂😂

steel fog
# spark crater Again, we never know just saying

if it was to release next february, we'd already have a proper trailer, official release date, and more knowledge on what the game entails exactly. So while yes, we never know, we'll also never know if there's a flying teacup flying around the sun, but we can safely say there's none.

steel fog
spark crater
#

@steel fog but do you have to do it yourself or not ?

steel fog
#

do what yourself?

spark crater
#

@steel fog Fuse the two types to make it one into an arcane type

steel fog
#

???

maiden compass
#

No more ghost and psychic

steel fog
#

the elements are fused into one as per game design

maiden compass
#

Now it's just arcane

steel fog
#

psychic and ghost no longer exist and get replaced by arcane

dusk night
#

No you don’t fuse them

#

The game doesn’t have normal, ghost or psychic anymore

spark crater
#

@dusk night @maiden compass 😥😥😥

#

@steel fog umm I see

#

But I think it’s not fair we don’t get to have those types anymore 🤦🏽‍♂️

dusk night
#

If the game is balanced then it shouldn’t be a problem

spark crater
#

I hope it is 👍

spark crater
#

I’m still wondering, if Omnicron is the Nexomon King or was then who’s the Nexomon God or Godsderekdrink

sharp kindle
#

When nexomon 3 coming?

spark crater
#

Next year I believe

eternal barn
#

It just got delayed for another century 👍🏻

spark crater
flint fern
spark crater
#

I’m so excited for that moment! @flint fern

flint fern
#

@spark crater Yes, I also have high expectations for this villain, he will undoubtedly be the biggest villain we have ever faced and that is why I am sure that N3 will be the biggest challenge.

spark crater
#

That’s facts, He might be the Ultimate Boss @flint fern

maiden compass
#

Could just be a tamer, I would actually prefer that, like the first human who stood up to the nexomon, nexomon have always been the big bad, Amelie was more of a plot device to explain the presence of Vados, she wasn't a charismatic badass villain. Humans haven't been evil in nexomon yet, an evil human main antagonist would be such a breath of fresh air

flint fern
#

I respect your point of view @maiden compass , but I would prefer it to be some type of evil entity seeking to take over the nexomon world. That is, an extremely powerful villain that really imposes and instills fear in the player.

#

Some humans who have been evil that come to mind: Malk (he's not exactly human but you get my point XD), Xanders, some N1 overseers (Glacia)

maiden compass
#

They were bad, not evil/villainous, more like a hindrance to the player than anything else

#

An actual evil villain who the player can compare themselves to, while also being impressive to fight would be amazing, just tired of the whole "massive monster is the villain who wants to take over the world" deal. But that's just my opinion

spark crater
#

@flint fern @maiden compass It sounds fascinating, what if, if we have both a Ultimate Monster Boss and an Ultimate Villain😎

maiden compass
#

One will be in the shadow of the other. Or they will be a package deal so neither one stands out that much

spark crater
steel fog
spark crater
#

You mean like on Extinction? It’ll be cool tho @steel fog

steel fog
#

The Abyssals DLC wasn't major enough to make Venefelis stand out enough

fresh oar
#

Not that there’s harm in continuing to chat here if people want to, but this poll was initiated, and concluded, many months ago at this point. Right now we’re all in the same boat just sitting and waiting for anything to pop up in #📰news It’s been well over a year…

spark crater
#

Yooo fr I just noticed that lol

slow falcon
#

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dusk night
#

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wintry grail
#

Is Nexomon 3 gonna be 3 vs 3? And did the battle system get decided yet? Excited for the full release been playing since Micromon.