002 - Summoning & Following

[tropic nimbus]

Dude! IT'S A FUCKING JOKE!!!

WHO CARES!?!?!

You are the only person who would throw a fit and create a massive argument because some random guy pointed out similarities between two characters!

[sterile hatch]

no, not similarities

you called them knock-offs

if you said similarities i'd have pointed out that it makes sense, considering they're all humanified boars, and that'd be all

but you're acting like those similarities mean they're knocked off another despite just being based on the same thing

[tropic nimbus]

As a JOKE!!!

They have black, orange and yellow color schemes.

They have big fists.

They have yellow swirly patterns.

They have two white foot claws.

They have zigzags around the legs.

NONE of this was required during the all-important "humanification" process, yet both designs share these traits.

And, like I said, I like both characters. I call Krowr an "Emboar Knockoff" as a joke. Good lord, dude.

[sterile hatch]

They have black, orange
common boar colours in reality/fiction

and yellow color schemes.
not sure for Emboar, but it makes sense considering the electric typing

They have big fists.
like humanified boars tend to do

They have yellow swirly patterns.
again, not sure for Emboar, but it makes sense considering the electric typing

They have two white foot claws.
again, like humanified boars tend to do

They have zigzags around the legs.
which is a very common style that's present in a lot of things that's required in some cases to limit certain zones from each other

NONE of this was required during the all-important "humanification" process, yet both designs share these traits.
like over half of it indeed was required, the other half being justified to be there for an electric typing but not for emboar

[tropic nimbus]

Oh my god, dude.

Yellow is a color typically found in fire. Fire tends to be orange and yellow in color. The swirly patterns are of chinese influence, as Emboar is supposed to be inspired by the pig from Journey to the West as somewhat of a partner for Infernape from the previous generation, who was based on Wukong. Also, having a lot of black and red in his design to contrast with Infernape's blue and white colors.

Further more, not every boar character needs to have big fists or black/orange/yellow color schemes or zigzags around the legs or white claws. Both characters chose these specific design elements.

But, like I said: who cares? I think they're both cool designs. I only call Krowr an "Emboar knockoff" as a joke. So what? You're the only person I know who would feel the need to waste an hour of their life lecturing me on how they're totally not similar at all, and the only similarity is "they're humanoid boars."

[sterile hatch]

Yellow is a color typically found in fire. Fire tends to be orange and yellow in color. The swirly patterns are of chinese influence, as Emboar is supposed to be inspired by the pig from Journey to the West.
Fair enough, but so it is a colour for electric, because electricity is often displayed as yellow, zigzag is of that genre too and the swirls relate to clouds, where lightning tends to come from

Further more, not every boar character needs to have big fists or black/orange/yellow color schemes or zigzags around the legs or white claws. Both characters chose these specific design elements.
Most do simply because it is the easiest to humanify a boar without making it look too weird, and it being electric type helps the rest

I only call Krowr an "Emboar knockoff" as a joke. So what?
you're taking an awfully lot of effort to justify a joke when a joke really needs no justification because it's not supposed to be an argument reflective of the truth. Especially after i said there's no knock-offs and you come with an "uhm aksually" kind of response to it.

You're the only person I know who would feel the need to waste an hour of their life lecturing me on how they're totally not similar at all, and the only similarity is "they're humanoid boars."
no, the only similarities they have are either accidental (yellow being common for both fire and electric) or issuing from being a boar (ovverall looks, white claws) and the humanification of it (big fists). There's no similarity that really implies it to be a knock-off, just based on the same thing. the point is, they're similar, but that doesn't makes them knock-offs.

[tropic nimbus]

Yes, yellow IS a common color for electricity, but orange isn't. Just because it's "the color a boar is?" Orange and yellow? Even if that were the case, an animals real life colors tend to not matter when creating monsters for a game.

Once again, none of those design elements are neccessary. You keep justifying that like boar characters HAVE to use those design elements, which isn't the case.

Again, YOU turned it into an argument. It was ALWAYS a joke based on some similarities, until you started ramming dowm my throat how you want me to think.

Boars do not typically have pure white claws. Boars do not typically have big, beefy limbs. Most boars do not have an orange and black color scheme outside of certain Chinese boars. Is Krowr supposed to be Chinese influenced? Sure, black is a common color paired with yellow, but orange?

I'm not saying they literally stole Emboar's design for Krowr. I made a JOKE about their similarities. Get over it!

[sterile hatch]

but orange isn't.
orange is too. Most known example would probably be raichu.

Even if that were the case, an animals real life colors tend to not matter when creating monsters for a game.
most fictive monsters draw colour either from their alignment/type, or their real life colourations.

Once again, none of those design elements are neccessary. You keep justifying that like boar characters HAVE to use those design elements, which isn't the case.
Except it is

Again, YOU turned it into an argument. It was ALWAYS a joke based on some similarities, until you started ramming dowm my throat how you want me to think.
no, you made it an argument with your "well aksually" type of respone claiming they are knock offs unironically

[tropic nimbus]

"Except it is."

No it isn't.

[sterile hatch]

except it is

[tropic nimbus]

No it isn't.

[sterile hatch]

Boars do not typically have pure white claws. Boars do not typically have big, beefy limbs. Most boars do not have an orange and black color scheme outside of certain Chinese boars. Is Krowr supposed to be Chinese influenced? Sure, black is a common color paired with yellow, but orange?
all of this boils down to being an electric typed humanified boar

so yes, it is

[tropic nimbus]

No it isn't.

[sterile hatch]

yes, it is
and we can keep repeating this all over again until you accept the truth,
or we can skip to that part already

i'd prefer latter btw

I'm not saying they literally stole Emboar's design for Krowr. I made a JOKE about their similarities. Get over it!
similarities =/= knock-off

especially if those are all reasoned out of basic design premises like type and animal

[tropic nimbus]

NO IT FUCKING ISN’T!!!

That's just YOU dictating design rules! That's just YOU trying your hardest to shove down my throat your opinion based on a GODDAMN JOKE!!!

Dude, shut up! You're not right. You're just dictating what other people think, once again, based...

On...

A...

JOKE!!!

[sterile hatch]

It's a boar, that's humanified, and electric type
how do you make this design then? you take a boar, which are usually black and brown (reddish), add swirls and zigzags as well as yellow and orange (electric type), and make it stand on two feet (because you want it so), giving a human-ish pose and making the changes needed to not make it look weird

the end result often tends to be exactly what you described, and if not, at least having a lot of the qualities you stated

if you think it's pure coincidence then that's on you, but truth is, it's not

[sterile hatch]

why am i not surprised you're bad at cropping images

[tropic nimbus]

They're humanoid boars, and every goddamn, motherfucking humanoid boar in the history of mandkind has big fists, black/orange/yellow color schemes, swirly patterns, white claws and zigzags around the legs!

CAN YOU FUCKING DROP IT!!!

I have more important things I want to do than have "Dictator Rider" lecture me similar designs!

[tropic nimbus]

Literally just downloaded the first image I saw.

[sterile hatch]

not every, but most tend to have most if not all those properties as such, or it's due to the electric typing, which isn't irrelevant either
but yes, that's about it

[sterile hatch]

the crossed out thing was meant to display it as a humorous reply, nothing serious, sorry if that wasn't clear

[tropic nimbus]

Again, orange isn't a common color scheme for electricity, but it is for fire.

Also, only Shiny Raichu is orange.

You could stretch it that electricians often wear orange jackets, maybe, but that's it.

[sterile hatch]

most of the colour is orange, anime is even more explicit

there's also alolan

[tropic nimbus]

Okay, but that's one example.

[sterile hatch]

we also got yamper and boltund, the three pawmi line members, hisuian voltorb/electrode, dedenne, heliolisk, tapu koko, morpeko, stunfisk and probably more i missed

i take it it's not the most common colour for electric, yes

but it's one that's occasionally used

[tropic nimbus]

So...

...

...

...Pokemon.

[sterile hatch]

i was looking at pokemon now since the first example was raichu, but i could also take a look at nexomon if you want

i don't think the points gonna change, if anything it'll confirm itself more

[tropic nimbus]

I'd rather just drop it.

[neon harness]

Just drop it honestly. Barboraco looking similar to Emboar is unintentional and I’m fine with that. I can always make adjustments to their designs in the future if they ever return anyway.

[storm arrow]

Yeah at this point it's pretty much just the monster tamer equivalent of "Simpsons already done it"

[tropic nimbus]

He was actually lecturing me on Krowr, but yeah. I see nothing wrong with Barboraco, either. I think he’s cool.

[sterile hatch]

Both, actually

[solemn steeple]

Well, its not like Emboar is some GF’s complete own idea. Since it was based on the pig-man character from Journey to the West..

Honestly forgot what’s his name was, but he was one of the protagonists, I think..

And also Ganon from TLOZ..

I mean, the big fat pig monster oftentimes using fire powers.. Yeah..

[dawn tinsel]

THIS LOOKS SO COOL AUGHHHHH AND THE MC AND MON DESIGNS ARE PEAK!!!!!!!!this makes me so so sosososoooooo excited for the game, its gonna be COOL!!!!!!!!

[last charm]

...Are you talking about Pigsy?

[solemn steeple]

Аh yes, that’s his name was..

[lone yarrow]

I remember Ken Sugimouri said in an interview that the emboar line is based on a Chinese general from the romance of three kingdoms novel

Doesn’t change the argument that gamefreak doesn’t own humanoid pig designs

[halcyon vault]

Nexomon was Always peak

[tropic nimbus]

That was never the point. I just thought it was kinda cool to see a few similarities in certain Nexomon to one of my favorite Gen 5 Pokemon.

[random charm]

Good idia to mayke that

[severe pond]

I’m still waiting to see the ABYSSALS Tyrants master that they don’t know who it is yet but yet obey him or her…

[severe pond]

@tropic nimbus Tbh that’s not a good idea, do you want them to get sued like Palmworld?

[gray coral]

Please, palwork is more obviously drawing heavy inspiration from designs, this is literally on the switch

[severe pond]

@gray coral True true but it’s better to avoid such a thing since they’re being too strict with their game

[storm arrow]

Nexomon have had several designs that look very similar to Pokémon and game freak never batted an eye. The whole Palworld things was because Pokémon fans got upset and started an uproar, so game freak had to take a stance. The damages they're asking for Palworld are negligeable at best. Honestly the media are making it a much bigger point than it actually is

[severe pond]

Oh yeah that’s right it all happened because of their Pokémon fans I don’t notice that until you mentioned it

Good point

[severe pond]

Didn’t*^

[lone yarrow]

Damages are nothing but Nintendo and TPC want to remove Palworld all together

That’s what an injunction means

[severe pond]

I see

I’m really gunna miss the Psychic type and

I don’t how many new types are they but I’m hoping for like a Galaxy type or something out of space 😭

Know^

[severe pond]

Imagine Coco it’s grown on nexo3

[gray coral]

It's 1000 years

[sterile hatch]

Palworld wasn't sued on copyright, but patents.

And patent suitcases regarding game mechanics and implementations almost never win a Case outside Japan.

[sterile hatch]

I don't think it happened due to the fans request, but in any case while the damage is negligeable, it's just part of the deal. The other one is that they won't be able to sell the Game in Japan anymore, which as a japanese studio hits very close to the heart.

[sterile hatch]

(only in Japan because that's the only place where the patents in question have any validity)

[tropic nimbus]

Inspiration is one thing. What Palworld did is straight-up pladgerism.

[quasi sandal]

That actually depends on the judge. The judge can rule that pocket par needs to pay royalties and change the game mechanics, thats if pocket pair wants to stop paying royalties.

[severe pond]

@tropic nimbus umm I see

@sterile hatch oh I didn’t know that

[sterile hatch]

It depends on whether or not they accept the deal and if so what the court will decide, of course. I merely stated what the deal Nintendo gave them was.

[quasi sandal]

That's true.

Nintendo: "pay my royalties or we 'Nintendo' will take you to court and sue you to oblivion.

[tropic nimbus]

Like, their cow monsters. Apparently, before launch, they had a different face. A little generic, as well as a little "farm sim"ish in the desgign, but in the final design, they just slapped Snorlax's face on it and turned the fangs upside down. You got one monster that's just Cinderace, but green. You got another that's just Valentines-Day Salazzle. And, what sucks is that they actually have a few decent monsters, but it really does feel like they purposely designed some of their monsters to look like straight-up knock-offs (in a NON joking sense) just to troll Nintendo and Game Freak.

[severe pond]

@tropic nimbus good thing I quit Pokémon since black and white and if I ever get play it again it’ll be Soul Silver just to battle Red

[neon harness]

Tech issues aside, Scarlet/Violet was the best mainline Pokemon game I’ve played since Emerald and HGSS

[sterile hatch]

I did enjoy Platinum and Black/White 1&2 a lot

Didn't really like HGSS because it was so grindy

[quasi sandal]

HGSS was a blast from the past

[severe pond]

I have a question

Is it possible in any way to make nexobreed? Or make it Hybrid

Like having a hybrid Nexomon😅

[neon harness]

Nope. Fusion/breeding is not a gameplay mechanic in this game.

[severe pond]

Agree

Just thinking of ideas

[storm arrow]

HGSS is extremely overrated, johto is probably the games with the most game design issues

[tropic nimbus]

I will die on the hill that Sword and Shield are good games, tbh.

[neon harness]

The DLC saved it

Meanwhile, BDSP is one of the Pokemon games ever.

[severe pond]

Facts DLC did save it

[last charm]

Y'all know they're patent suing, not copywrite?

[last charm]

I enjoyed Legends Arceus more but SV were definitely fun.
Lacking in content for the price of their game but considering the nightmare of a development and release schedule GF's devs are put through I think what is there is kind of a miracle.

[storm arrow]

Yes

[sterile hatch]

That doesn't mean it couldn't be an Al Capone case

[winged pulsar]

Sorry just wanted to take the time to say you devs do an amazing job on Nexomon. I started playing the first one the other day. And I like how your blend the classic style with new elements. Like the way you made Nexomon in 2021 takes me back to my childhood days you all are amazing keep up the great work

[random charm]

Good idia

[civic breach]

Do we have any knowledge on the release of the game?

[gray coral]

Nope

[wintry compass]

I'm going to guess not this year, at least. Which is fine with me

[hasty widget]

Most likely and I’m a little sad about it but I know it will be an amazing game when done

[broken sky]

When does it come

[visual nexus]

I like this ngl

[shrewd granite]

The game is still alive?

[sterile hatch]

Why would it not be?

[shrewd granite]

I ask because I haven't seen the news for a while.

[quasi sandal]

It's on pause right now

[shrewd granite]

why?

[sterile hatch]

Because they're reconsidering stuff. No point in sharing new information if that information could change a couple hours later

[neon harness]

It's not really in "pause". The development is going along fine. There will just be no news updates from us in a long while.

[storm arrow]

A long while, even for the monster reveals?

[dapper spear]

We wont be seeing a copy of the crappy Pokemon mechanic where you dont even battle the pokemon in the world in order to catch them right? i want BATTLES not to be just throwing balls mindlessly in the open world to catch them

[sterile hatch]

I assume you meant the PLA system. That one is perfectly optional and you could start battles anytime.

I would like a battle-less catching system to exist, as this would make stuff easier and more enjoyable, but at the same time allowing people to forego it and just do the normal battle to catch method as well.

There's no negative on a choice like that.

[dapper spear]

You talking about recent pokemon games? I was looking at getting Arceus legends but every stream i saw was people just throwing poeballs and catching without having any battles or anything. Thats just so boring to me

Yeah i wouldnt mind the throw to ctach IF you can ignore that mechanic and actually have battles

[sterile hatch]

That's the case in PLA, it's just far easier and for most people far more fun to catch without battles

But nothing stops you from battling them and catching them during the battle

[dapper spear]

PLA?

Pokemon Legends Arcesus?

[sterile hatch]

__P__okemon __L__egends __A__rceus

[dapper spear]

Thats great to know. I might have to pick that up. I was gutted by tyhe Pikachu and Eevee games, seemed to have so little actual battles :/

[sterile hatch]

Those were bad mechanically, definitely

[dapper spear]

As a massive Eevee fan i was SO wexcited but it was SO bad left a real bad taste that i havent tried anything since

[storm arrow]

In PLA, catching without battling requires some skill and using different mechanics so it ends up being quite fun, the only issue I had with the game is that there are hardly any trainer battles and you end up cycling through Pokémon really quick so you don't really feel attached to them. Overall it's a different experience so it's worth it, but it is not a flawless game (to be fair not a lot of games are, far from it)

[sterile hatch]

Cycling through Pokemon is entirely a choice. I have a fix Team that I'm keeping and only cycle through the placeholder ones.

That being said, I usually don't feel peculiarily attached to a bunch of 0 and 1s so there's that.

[storm arrow]

Since most of the zones have similar types, like in the last zone there's a bunch of ice Pokémon and stuff weak to fighting in general, so it felt like you were a bit forced to use them, also some members on my team felt a bit useless after a while

[sterile hatch]

Hmm might be due to battling being less focused on this time, making the use actually less important

[warm pilot]

I can’t wait for Nexomon 3!!

[last charm]

Aside from having the best following system of any pokemon game.
I think Let's go's flaws are easily summed up in it's catching mechanics. Outside of that area they're the most polished games on the switch.

[sterile hatch]

Iirc there's no held items, no abilities, you get an OP permanent team member, ...

Like sure, the follow and ride mechanic is cool and all, but all the rest is either just normal/neutral, or bad

[last charm]

I don't see no held items/abilities as automatically being a flaw, at least for more single-player focused games (after all PLA also had no held items and no abilities unless you're Regigigas)
I don't see them as fantastic games, but I also don't think they were bad, and they are definitely the games that have the most technical polish and are the most 'finished'.

At least out of the Switch games

[sterile hatch]

I mean, it does feel like you got reduced down on part of the Pokemons identity.

I love PLA for all it is but still consider the lack of both an inherent flaw, so I'll obviously also consider it on a game I don't like, like LGPE

[tame kindle]

Is this still gonna be a feature after the whole palworld situation?

[last charm]

Well, last I checked, Nexomon's devs aren't situated in Japan, so Nintendo would have a much harder time leveraging those extremely broad patents.

[sterile hatch]

Yes, out of of all their patents, I believe only one has any relevance outside Japan. Japan is very strict when it comes to intellectual property to the point it nears insanity.

On the other Hand, it could still cause issues and legal trouble.

[tame kindle]

Im only concerned cause of whats happening with Palworld

Nintendo made the patent on the throwing a object and summonging from it DURING the legal course with Palworld to sue them for something. That cant be legal

[gray coral]

That's because they have more power in Japan, Nexomon is literally on the switch currently

[sterile hatch]

No, they made the patents before, they simply renewed it later.

[hasty widget]

Nexomon is on steam too

[hasty widget]

Yeah now they been forced to change how they spawn and now it’s right next to you no matter where you throw it

I pretty sure the patient was over throwing a ball not an object tho

[sterile hatch]

the patent was at the special prompt and mechanic of aiming and throwing, which depending on objects can initiate battles, interact with entities or trigger events

[sterile hatch]

That's not their point btw. If Nexomon 1/2 is on the Switch, owned by Nintendo, co-owner of TPC, owner of Pokemon, then the current games shouldn't be an issue to them.

Now of course, Nexomon 3 is the one to introduce all that.

[keen stirrup]

[neon harness]

Based on what’s currently presented in Nexo3, I don’t see anything that infringes Nintendo’s patents.

[sterile hatch]

From all we got video footage on, agreed, but some ideas thrown around might be problematic based on excecution.

But even then, excecution can be changed while the Idea can be kept

[storm arrow]

Isn't the main (maybe only?) patent that palworld infringed on was the fact that you could capture roaming creatures in an open world with sphere based objects ?

[sterile hatch]

Specifically the excecution of it.

But there was iirc also a riding one

[storm arrow]

Riding one kind of rings a bell, but they would have to have a worded it very specifically for it to hold any weight. You can't patent a general game mechanic, like riding a creature that you own.

[sterile hatch]

You can patent the excecution/implemention, and I believe that was the case

In other words, UI elements and button prompt concepts

Mind, not the UI elements appearance wise, rather the Layout and such

[storm arrow]

Yeah is something about you can't patent an idea, only the execution

[sterile hatch]

And only in Japan, outside it's very complicated to patent a such specific excecution

[dreamy vine]

It has nothing to do with the object being a sphere. The object could be a yoyo and they would still be 'infringing' N's patent.

It's basically 'the ability to throw an object at a creature and then it becomes captured and added to your team.'

The text below is from the patent itself:
"In a first mode, the aiming direction within the virtual space is determined based on a second operation input, and based on a third operation input, the player character is caused to fire an item that affects a field character placed on a field in the virtual space in the aiming direction; in a second mode, the aiming direction is determined based on the second operation input, and based on the third operation input, the player character is caused to fire a combat character that will engage in combat in the aiming direction."

Patent No. 7545191

[sterile hatch]

Basically how items and pokeballs work in PLA.

Which was quite similar to how Palworld did it

[vast bobcat]

Will the Nexomon have over dramatic fainting animations?

[keen stirrup]

probably

[vast bobcat]

YAY!

[keen stirrup]

Yay