#New Mutation Idea: Critical Cooldown

126 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

nocturne lantern
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Scaling: Color-less
Description: Decrease/increase the charge time/critical strike window of weapons, respectively

Effect: It would basically decrease the charge time of critical attacks on weapons like the flint or toothpick by about 30% (subject to change obv), as well as increase the window that critical hits can be done on weapons like the oven axe or spite sword also by about 30%.

My rationale for suggesting a mutation like this would be to allow for easier crit use for mostly heavy weapons like the oven axe or tooth pick. Most people don't really use the crit condition on weapons like that, and I feel like adding a mutation that would allow for easier use for those aspects of the weapons would be pretty pog.

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name is also kinda bland tho lol

solid pecan
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kind of an interesting idea but wouldnt really be all that strong

nocturne lantern
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yea ig

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more like a quality of life mutation for most weapons, but i think it would be pretty huge on the tooth pick

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maybe increase/decrease could be greater?? idk

solid pecan
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you dont really use the charge attack of toothpick all that much

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the stupid amount of stun on hit is what you use it for

sharp pecan
solid pecan
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using charge attack removes that

nocturne lantern
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i mean the point is to encourage it

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still probably not worth tho lol

sharp pecan
# solid pecan using charge attack removes that

Make charged toothpick somewhat bypass boss cap smhmh my head

Anyways, speaking about the mutation itself... Nah. This is a mutation that works mildly well on a pretty small selection of weapons.

nocturne lantern
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there are alot of time based crit conditions

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but i do agree that it wouldn't help too much lol

sharp pecan
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For weapons like oven axe and broadsword, it'll be moreso extending the combo timer, which might actually be a negative at times. Like broadsword and oven axe 3rd hit have quite a bit of endlag to them

solid pecan
nocturne lantern
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i mean yea, but the whole point is to make it easier

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thats like saying you can get the speed buff back really easily so velocity is useless

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which is a bad example because it kinda is but you get the point lol

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there are also alot of weapons were the crit condition is harder to hit, like the oven axe or the lance

sharp pecan
nocturne lantern
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i mean there are tons of niche mutations in the game currently

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don't see how this would be much different lol

sharp pecan
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Vengeance, velocity, the bank ones... I don't remember any others that are niche, unless your definition of niche is bad

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Actually you can make a very good argument for those being way more general than this

Because those work no matter what weapon you're running, even if they're way better with specific synergies

nocturne lantern
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masochism, extended heal, berserker, tactical retreat

sharp pecan
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THOSE LAST THREE ARE NOT FUCKING NICHE

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Masochism yeah i forgor

nocturne lantern
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who the fuck uses extended heal

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unless your running dead inside

sharp pecan
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unless your definition of niche is bad

(also extended heal is actually pretty decent and would be a nice pick if it wasn't for some of surv's other mutations)

solid pecan
nocturne lantern
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how is my definition of niche bad? A small amount of uses that don't really meld well with other strats is how I would define niche in this situation (also yea thats why extended heal is niche. It's just the worse option unless your in that specific situation)

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also FUCK tactical retreat

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it just a worse caltrops

solid pecan
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Extended healing doesn't really matter on build, the extra healing isnt scaling

solid pecan
nocturne lantern
solid pecan
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Not on tactics

nocturne lantern
solid pecan
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Tact retreat is a side grade

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It's full screen slow

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Projectiles are always "last second" dodges so it's easier to proc in bosses like spoiler

nocturne lantern
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I mean i dont think a screen wide slow is that much better cause 90% of the time your gonna be up in the face of enemies

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its why point blank is probably one of the best mutations range wise lmao

solid pecan
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Except it doesn't give a universal damage buff

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Which is a massive difference

nocturne lantern
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Ive just never taken tactical retreat over caltrops, like ever. Caltrops is just easier to use and is nominally worse at ranged targets

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and since theres realistically no point in taking 2 slow mutations, I always just go for the easier option

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regardless, this discussion has gone off the rails a bit

solid pecan
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As does everything

nocturne lantern
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tru

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also dont know why i put berseker, ig since for the most part soldier's resistance is almost always better?

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but you can always just use both soooooo

untold igloo
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I only dislike berserker cuz it's restricted to melee only

tawny lance
nocturne lantern
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yea sure, but most enemies don't do that

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so soldiers is generally better

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as well as the fact that berseker doesnt work in bosses

tawny lance
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ig but its definitely not niche and is incredibly powerful in a lot of scenarios

nocturne lantern
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i would say that most people would take soldiers over berserker unless you take both

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which seems kind of niche to me. Keep in mind that it doesnt mean its bad, thats not what im saying lol

tawny lance
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back to the actual mutation idk this is pretty niche

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thats probably the point but maybe its too niche?

nocturne lantern
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niche =/= bad (imo) (i mean thats why we had this entire discussion in the first place)

tawny lance
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like there are tons of weapons with "critical windows" but often the window running out is not the issue with them

nocturne lantern
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im not disagreeing

tawny lance
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maybe this is a bit

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too niche?

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if thats even possible in a mutation

nocturne lantern
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i mean i think it would be pretty useful, on weapons like the katana or oven axe

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things with a hard crit condition to hit

tawny lance
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oh yeah katana lol

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someone is going to break the game with this and the katana

nocturne lantern
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whether that be just cause of timing or just the way the weapon operates

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i mean thats why I chose a conservative 30% increase

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doesn't seem too broken, plus the katana is a pretty mid tier brutality weapon (tho its fun as fuck)

tawny lance
tawny lance
nocturne lantern
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most people don't use the tech tho, and i dont think this would make the tech much better lol

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i dont think balancing should be based around tech

tawny lance
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ig

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but like

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outside of those two u mentioned

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idk what else would fit with this mutation

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whip sword?

nocturne lantern
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it would be pretty nice with the fans as well, considering you can't crit without projectiles

tawny lance
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yea but that doesnt solve the underlying issue with the fans

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which is that you need projectiles

nocturne lantern
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not saying it would, just stating weapons that would benefit

tawny lance
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like every "crit window" weapon i can think of has an issue in how you activate the condition now in how long the duration lasts

nocturne lantern
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i dont think it would fix the tooth pick either, but it would be better with it

tawny lance
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toothpick sounds like the main beneficiary here

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this + kill rhythm would make it tons of fun so thats nice

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uhhhh

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idk how this would interact with tonfas because i dont know how they work

nocturne lantern
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it would be a bit weird, since its based off time and a combo

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i think?

tawny lance
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it could be some nice QoL with balanced blade so you dont have to go through the tedium of landing 10 hits after every lore room or random long hallway

nocturne lantern
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ig youd be able to go longer without hitting the 3rd lunge

tawny lance
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oo flawless

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maybe it could shorten the time needed to not take damage for to activate crits on that specifically

nocturne lantern
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oh yea flawless was also one that I was thinking would be good

nocturne lantern
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didn't want to shoe horn in that cause its one of the few weapons with a crit condition like that

tawny lance
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ok i pulled up the gear page ill look through and see how practical this actually is

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all of the "third hit crit" weapons would like this a lot

nocturne lantern
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is the rapier time based? or is it combo based

tawny lance
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time

nocturne lantern
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I can't tell

tawny lance
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oo the lantern

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the secondary charges up crits

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dagger of profit might be nice even though its only 3 seconds so a % increase isnt much

nocturne lantern
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isnt the lantern one based on kills?

tawny lance
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the secondary charges up if you have souls

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oh wait i thought it was attack speed nvm lol

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i keep mixing up the two

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most ranged weapons are terrible with this, the only ones i can think of are nerves of steel and killing deck

nocturne lantern
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oh nah, i mean ig it could work that way as well? just speed up crits if beneficial?

tawny lance
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maybe make it more applicable actually

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actually nvm that would be dumb

nocturne lantern
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yea idk, maybe this mutation is a bit too niche. Tbf it would effect alot of weapons, just not many would be helped that much