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#vr-ar-webvr
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willow sigilBOT
Hi
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earnest yarrow
that's me :)
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frozen wharf
Not sure if this is the place but, it seems like this is the purpose of this channel (and pointing people to the Hubs room). I've been revisiting the idea of HMDs, largely geared towards monitor-replacement/serial terminal (I mainly code in NeoVim). This means a minimum resolution of 640x192px to provide a full-sized standard terminal display (80 columns by 24 rows, with ASCII characters being 8x8px).
Initially, I thought that a non-traditional display like e-Ink/DES might be good for avoiding eye strain from extended use and lowering power consumption but, they currently appear to fall pretty short for functional needs - slow refresh would make coding painful, multi-color is even slower and wonkier for refresh, and, the biggest deal breaker, none of the displays with high enough resolution that I can readily find are small enough to use in a lightweight HMD, without hideously complex, and likely expensive and heavy, optics.
Next, I dug into OLEDs, as they have been used to great effect in some DIY smartglasses that I've seen. But, the ones that I readily found were also well below the necessary resolution.
Just the other day, I discovered that "micro OLEDs" are a thing, thanks to a Tested teaser video for premium, custom-fit VR goggles. There are some incredibly tiny (0.7", 17.78mm), full-HD displays but they are quite pricy. However, I did discover what might be a gem, the Sony ECX336C, which looks to run in the $30-50USD range, is 640x400px RGB. That seems a viable possibility.
But, where this long-winded post is going, I'm not terribly familiar with AR optics as of yet. Are there any commercially available RGB (or even bicolor or monochrome) waveguides or suggestions on DIY possibilities that are both reasonably-priced and viable for an AR display?
frozen wharf
Quick update: I've not yet been able to find the optical elements or suitable DIY versions (there's a guy on YouTube that created "Onyx" glasses for Patreon supporters who successfully scavenged some birdbath optics from an existing HMD).
That said, I did find a potentially viable commercial product for what I want. The Nreal company is selling their Air glasses in the $350-400USD range. My initial experience using them with their "Nebula" software on a Mac was good but broke with the latest MacOS updates. With the software, it really was about exactly what I wanted: comfortable HMD virtual displays with head tracking, etc. Perfect for my use case. But, they don't have a big dev team and haven't prioritized a fix or opening up the API. So, it looks like reverse engineering will be necessary (somewhat successful efforts are already underway).
I'll report back if I come across optics or have something fun to show. Likely, I'll be figuring out a C/Rust implementation for an API client/driver and figuring out a "middleware" ("middlewear"?) board so that I can offload the head tracking from the host system and simplify cross-platform compatibility.
undone swift
Quick update: I've not yet been able to find the optical elements or suitable DI...
Not sure if you got anywhere with what you were looking into but I'm working on my own HMD project, and I took apart a similar device (Rokid Air) to put into my helmet project. There's a developer who has been reverse engineering the protocols for various AR glasses so this might be helpful if you're still looking:
https://voidcomputing.hu/blog/good-bad-ugly/
and
https://voidcomputing.hu/blog/worse-better-prettier/
I've just added some more hardware I'm about to toy around with for my project in using a Stereopi v2 with a CM4 (Pi Compute Module 4). This channel seems pretty dead but if anyone else peeks in and has suggestions on using stereopi or similar hardware I'm definitely open for discussion
frozen wharf
Brilliant! Thanks for tagging me. I'll have to look into these further. I have found some excellent teardowns of the Xreal Air that allowed me to identify ALL of the visible ICs (ARM MCU, 6DOF sensor, and AW9523 GPIO expander).
Sadly, I've been too swamped to put much time into it but, I think that you're going in a good direction. In order to prevent software/OS updates from breaking my work display, I got their "Beam" product for now as well but still be breaking it open to add external power as, for some reason, they omitted that. It's basically just an Android SBC with an RK3566 SoC, Mali G52 GPU, and 4GB DDR3 RAM.
With how well it works, I think I've potentially been greatly overestimating the needs for the household system that I've been working towards implementing.
I still haven't found a good, non-scavenged source of the optical elements but, will see if I am able to find ways of procuring/making them cheaply. IMO, birdbath optics are the best for my use cases. The lower FOV allows the pixels to be "compressed" into a smaller angular area, greatly increasing the Pixels-per-°.
At this point, I'm down to needing to figure out the wave plates, polarizers, and partial mirrors. If I can do that, and source some good 2k micro-OLEDs, I'll be happy out, for the display device. Getting a good, efficient SBC w/ enough grunt to do the processing.
undone swift
Very cool! I'd say going the lengths of creating one's own display with the parts like that is a little beyond me, but a year ago I'd never done anything with microcontrollers or soldering and now a corner of the kitchen and my computer desk are covered in MCUs and sensors etc 😅
clear kraken
Has anyone encountered a lag regularizer(might be wrong term) for VRchat or another social VR game? Im thinking of the effect of https://jammr.net/ but in a VR setting. This would help sync dancing and musicians playing together by making the lag a specific beat/ bar delay
waxen estuary
I just released the updated design files, and build video for my controller, the XR Pistol, now supporting Quest 2 + 3 with the same hardware. Print one off and share you feedback: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QyTmiztWqbo
urban monolith
Posting this here in case anyone is interested and a student or recent graduate: https://www.itu.int/metaverse/un-virtual-worlds-day/thinkathon/ the UN working group the ITU has a thinkathon related to the "metaverse." May be a fun experience if you have friends who want to work on a project together. Looks like they have some prizes as well. https://challenge.aiforgood.itu.int/match/matchitem/92 registration closes on March 29th if anyone is interested.
I'm not related to them in any way -- I've taken part in other ITU challenges and saw it in passing when I went to check if any machine learning ones had posted.
scenic agate
My first attempt at slapping a headset together. These lcds are not easy to get running on a pi.
clear kraken
My first attempt at slapping a headset together. These lcds are not easy to get ...
Neat! Did you eventually get them running?
smoky matrix
If anyone here has experience developing with the HTC Vive please let me know.
I am wanting to tear out its trackpad and use it in a project. I currently don’t know if it’s a good fit or not as I am not sure what input information I can access, or if it is somehow encoded
whole shuttle
Does anyone have any vr games they made? Im curious and i would wanna play them.
whole shuttle
My first attempt at slapping a headset together. These lcds are not easy to get ...
That's cool
tacit plume
Does anyone have any vr games they made? Im curious and i would wanna play them.
On the topic of finding games to play on VR headsets, I find it interesting that Valve has marketed their upcoming Steam Frame as being just as useful for playing non-VR games. My understanding of the selling point is to have the same immersion as a large living room TV, but while being in physically space constrained areas. A better explanation can be found on its product page: https://store.steampowered.com/sale/steamframe
tacit plume
On the topic of finding games to play on VR headsets, I find it interesting that...
Or in other words, a large portion of the existing games on Steam will soon become viable VR games, if you stretch the definition of a "VR game".
tacit plume
On the topic of finding games to play on VR headsets, I find it interesting that...
With Valve's track-record of SteamOS itself being nearly fully open source, I'm surprised that this Discord server hasn't had much discussion around it using an ARM variant of SteamOS.
tacit plume
With Valve's track-record of SteamOS itself being nearly fully open source, I'm ...
Don't forget this additional feature of the Steam Frame (IMO, it also has an Adafruit mindset):
User accessible front expansion port
Dual high speed camera interface (8 lanes @ 2.5Gbps MIPI) / PCIe Gen 4 interface (1-lane)
whole shuttle
Oh nice
uneven elbow
expansion port seems like option for mouth/face tracking. but in theory could also be for AR or body tracking.
tacit plume
expansion port seems like option for mouth/face tracking. but in theory could a...
Thinking outside the box, it might be as little as one Linux kernel recompile away from all of these other categories of PCIe devices: https://pipci.jeffgeerling.com/
uneven elbow
sure but the primary limiter here is distance. PCIe 60 cm / 2 feet, MIPI CSI is even shorter (with out SerDes hardware). That gets you about your chest / shoulders (with strain relief and routing). Not the kind of place i want to wear a 300+ watt GPU 🙂
tacit plume
sure but the primary limiter here is distance. PCIe 60 cm / 2 feet, MIPI CSI i...
True. Hopefully https://credosemi.com/products/pcie/toucan-aec/ and/or its competitors will trickle-down from data centers to homelab-style DIYers. 🤞
olive plume
I'm doing a build of the best keyboard for subtle AR use (that is, smartglasses without looking like a cyborg or crazy person) that I have been able to find. Look here if interested #keyboards message
humble summit
!hubs
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Hi! I'm the Hubs bot. I connect Discord channels with rooms on Hubs (https://hubs.mozilla.com/). Type !hubs help for more information..
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humble summit
!hubs help
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Command reference:
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See the documentation and source at https://github.com/MozillaReality/hubs-discord-bot for a more detailed reference of bot functionality, including guidelines on what permissions the bot needs, what kinds of bridging the bot can do, and more about how the bot bridges channels to rooms. You can invite the bot to your own server at https://hubs.mozilla.com/discord.
humble summit
!hubs
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Hi! I'm the Hubs bot. I connect Discord channels with rooms on Hubs (https://hubs.mozilla.com/). Type !hubs help for more information..
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humble summit
hi!
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humble summit
and chat from here to hubs works as well
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willow sigilBOT
hi
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willow sigilBOT
in world
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hahaha that's me! I'm going to explore the hub - see you later!
willow sigilBOT
just made a C64
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willow sigilBOT
@aidancuckoo here!
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says @warm blaze the bot... I just added a CPB
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- transferring to Hubs app
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silver viper
Any one developed an AR Headset ? @rose knoll
wraith plank
I thought about one (even bought the CRTs for it), but ended up just buying one.
silver viper
@wraith plank ok.
I designed one https://youtu.be/eOM6hRjpMLQ
https://www.delhitechnologyclub.com/build-your-own-ar-headset
But now I want to make it small 😎
wraith plank
Yeah, those 3.5" displays are bulky. There ought to be something out there with similar resolution in a smaller form factor.
silver viper
Yes you’re right . Do you have any idea of Microled?
wraith plank
No, I'm not familiar with that.
edgy plaza
They're very promising for AR, but micro-LEDs are still a bit early in the technology curve. Most people use LCOS or OLED microdisplays today.
silver viper
@edgy plaza is there any place from which I can buy oled or lcos?
edgy plaza
@silver viper Generally they aren't considered hobbyist parts, so there aren't many distributors. One I know of that stocks a few microdisplays is: https://www.tekgear.com/microdisplays.html
You might also consider customizing the software on an existing hardware platform. The Vuzix Blade, for instance, is a good tradeoff between form factor and features.
edgy plaza
Afraid so, yeah. AR hasn't really gone mainstream yet.
silver viper
Yes . I am waiting for Apple glasses .
They’re doing amazing work with ARkit.
Check out my experiment with ARkit
If they can reach this quality with glasses, it would be awesome ⭐️
@edgy plaza
edgy plaza
I'm also looking forward to nReal. Their demos at trade shows have been pretty good.
silver viper
Yes . But optics are still not much HdR
edgy plaza
Yeah, since it's difficult to selectively block light, you're generally going to be limited to additive images, which tend to be low-contrast.
silver viper
Yeah . Are you on the north star discord?
edgy plaza
I hadn't heard of that project before... neat, thanks!
wraith plank
LCD screens selectively block light
edgy plaza
Yes, but only in a focal plane. It's difficult to use them to selectively block objects in the environment like you'd want to for AR.
silver viper
@edgy plaza North Star is of leap motion . They open sourced.
Big screens are giving good Fov. As no tiny projectors were used 😬
It look likes this. All Frame is 3d printed
edgy plaza
Heh, nice!
silver viper
Thank you ⭐️
These are some parts
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devout oyster
not ment as an add, btw just wanted to show off some parts I modeled up for a project.
dreamy veldt
Think this is an incredibly appropriate place to introduce inspectAR :). AR for PCBs... assembly, rework, debug, and remote collaboration. Check it out! www.inspectar.com
sleek pawn
Any recomendations of an opensource, easy to use AR framework. I have been playing with AR.js, but I haven't been able to make the objects stay on the floor so that I can walk around them.
Little video demo using a Petroglyph from Costa Rica. (after the video I added light so it looks better)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XTCPqcHrcsI&t=36s
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dreamy veldt
Hey guys, we just released a case-study video of a local engineering team using inspectAR for PCB assembly. Check it out! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex866KB8Nag&feature=youtu.be
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next shore
Anyone developed using a Leap Motion Controller? https://www.ultraleap.com/product/leap-motion-controller/
wraith plank
Yes, I have. We had a hack day at work, and I said I was aiming to modify the company's flagship product to be controllable with the Leap. They said if I managed it in a day, they'd give me the Leap. I did.
next shore
@wraith plank nice! I'm trying to get its python library working on my mac. I keep getting errors like "Fatal Python error: PyThreadState_Get: no current thread Abort trap: 6" I don't see much developer support for it online
wraith plank
Yow, that's a screwy error. I hadn't used the Python library.
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willow sigilBOT
hello
glossy ember
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obtuse peak
oh cool! you synced up a bot to say who is in the room! are there any meetups coming? : )
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night prawn
not sure what do I need to do
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willow sigilBOT
how do I get other people's google poly models to appear in color? they are black/grey right now
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obtuse peak
@night prawn hey do you need help getting in?
willow sigilBOT
obtuse peak
hey folks it's a party in here! feel free to join
willow sigilBOT
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obtuse peak
@night prawn for future reference, you can just click on the join link and load it in your browser. no vr headset needed. but if you want to use your vr headset let me know and I'll see if I can help with the steps
that concludes our newbie party! super fun! I like Hubs better than VR Chat!!
night prawn
I don't have any VR stuff.
can I use my space navigator?
I have the Space Pilot Pro
@obtuse peak ^
obtuse peak
hm checking
obtuse peak
cool! a 3D mouse!
night prawn
yes
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obtuse peak
hm I see that someone joined the hubs room, is that you? I just rejoined
anyways, I think your mouse would work in there. it's just a browser interface, here is a screenshot:
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willow sigilBOT
hey pink vampire, I don't see your avatar here
I can hear you
you can't hear me?
how about now?
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obtuse peak
seems that there is no spacepilot pro plugin for Mozilla Hubs, too bad!
what do you normally use your 3D mouse for? 3D modeling?
night prawn
spacepiot pro, is the device, but it is made by 3dconnexion,
obtuse peak
it looks awesome
if I could use it in SketchUp that might make things a lot easier
I'm a teacher so usually I'm using simple 3D programs, like cospaces
I bet it doesn't work in cospaces.io though...
or minecraft!!
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obtuse peak
pink vampire, is that you in the Hubs room? I'm not in there right now
night prawn
I'm trying from my computer
but it is all over the place
and the space navigator don't work at all
obtuse peak
from the computer, does a normal mouse work?
obtuse peak
oh I used the arrow keys
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obtuse peak
wasd work for me too, just tried
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willow sigilBOT
looks like it's working now?
if you click the red/pink magic wand
you can choose 3D models
how I rotate?
click and drag the screen
whoops I exited on accident
you can also press Q or E to rotate
I can't hear anything
but it's in sections
eqeqeqeqeqeqeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeqqqq
LOL
I have my mic off now, it's loud here
oh you have to exit the chat box, yeah
ok it is working
how it is better then the VC in discord?
you can collectivly draw things is one
another is if you have groups of 4 or larger
because the voice loudness is based on your proximity, you can have multiple groups
like, one person can hear all four people talking, but choose who to hear best
so it can be a more social style environment
COOL
vs video chat, that's the same volume for all people
I'm super interested in doing an event in Hubs. like maybe an LED programming tutorial, or a fashion design session
something just for fun
I can't figure out how to change the pen from my computer....
in VR I could change pen colors and styles
press C to get the camera
shift+e to change colors
shift mouse wheel to make pen bigger
but I don't have a mouse wheel...
willow sigilBOT
LOL
I don't like me?
with a vr headset, you can draw in 3D space
I can't figure out how to do that here, I think cannot
how do you do emoji?
space
I teleported to the cat
how?
I clicked the 3 cubes in the top right corner
and then clicked on the cat model
he no longer has a vive headset
COOL
oh I think you can make permanent objects if you "sign up"
I need to go see what is going on with my printer.
BRB
I clicked the star
now I'm signed in
I think that Earth is permanent, even after I sign out
willow sigilBOT
yep! globe still here! awesome!
ok this has been fun, thanks for helping me explore, I gotta get some work done!
VR you later!
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obtuse peak
I built a globe that asks you to sign your name on it! if anyone joins, please fill it out! it requires you to figure out how to sign-in and then "pin" your drawing, otherise your name will dissapear when you leave
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willow sigilBOT
lit
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willow sigilBOT
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merry kiln
hey, bad idea for someone who's a complete amature
but
suggestions for a VR tracking camera
as in
external data feed into a computer
based on hand location
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opal fiber
what a strange place that was
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regal turtle
<@&327289013561982976>
dense ferry
Thank you @regal turtle
regal turtle
🙏
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willow sigilBOT
Hi
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verbal cove
Hey amazing people, how did I not hear about Adafruit AR until stumbling through the Pico guide.. I only wish it was android too, surely one day...
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modest birch
What in the world is this??
hardy agate
VR
hardy agate
Yiss
quick rampart
whoooa, there's a WebXR channel now? I haven't been here in forever.
quick rampart
Any folks working on any interesting WebXR stuff?
modest birch
IDK what one is supposed to do in a VR Adafruit room, but sounds cool
This is more active today than in a month IMHO
quick rampart
@modest birch one of my first VR projects was a haptic glove project that I made with parts I purchased from Adafruit, so there is definitely stuff to do
modest birch
<@!746175873203437652> one of my first VR projects was a haptic glove project th...
Cool!!
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