live-broadcast-chat

[cinder wind]

totally. I purposely limited it to three buttons to allow the most compatibility, but would be easy to alter

[sudden slate]

Just realized that - sorry 🤦‍♂️

[hot frigate]

It's all good. My daughter is frustrated with it as I type!!!!

It's hilarious!

[waxen thistle]

"Why buy one when you can get two for twice the price?"

[shell mason]

good NPI

[smoky island]

@cinder wind You did a really great job on this! it's really awesome the way it runs on many different devices. The way you've set it up would make it super easy to add more devices as well, I'll probably try it out on a PewPew M4

[echo canopy]

Question for the show: I love the TPL55110/TPL111 boards. Is there a breakout that can do two things 1) monitor signal state change like a magnetic switch opening- then once open,it would source power to a microcontroller then 2) keep it on for at least “X” seconds regardless if the signal state changes . Hopefully around 20uA

[dim knot]

Clear Kailh CHOC Slim Key Caps x 10 pack https://www.adafruit.com/product/5110

[hot frigate]

Pre 2000ish games are harder than post.

[robust horizon]

There's no answer for everyone when it comes to editors & dev environments. Try a couple of different editors and decide which one is best for you.

[cinder wind]

thanks! and ooo I've always wanted to see what a PewPew is like

[sudden slate]

Yeah

[oblique jay]

😂😂 is this the NPI version of smashing the guitar on stage at the end of the concert? 😂 TAKE THAT OVERHEAD 😂

[sterile forge]

Can I get a eagle file for an individual key from the 30 key ortho keyboard. I need a way to rearrange them for a isomorphic hex keyboard which has 96 keys. It is not square.

[lilac tusk]

It werks woo

[dim knot]

Black Kailh CHOC Slim Key Caps x 10 pack https://www.adafruit.com/product/5111

[grand tusk]

Whoa, the lights flash purple! #staroids

[hot frigate]

#staroids is FUUUUN!!!!

[robust horizon]

recoil on firing would be an interesting mechanic!

[cinder wind]

that's slick!

[lilac tusk]

Thanks 🙂

[teal river]

If I recall, that's how it works in Asteroids? Been a while...

[upper sandal]

but does it play doom staroids ?

[woven mirage]

Do Lady and Lord Ada have new mics? We used to hear their heat/A/C.

[robust horizon]

I don't remember it being that way, but likewise it's been awhile

[dim knot]

4x4 Key Deluxe Aluminum Keypad Shell Enclosure https://www.adafruit.com/product/5071

Two Key Black Aluminum Keypad Shell Enclosure - MX Compatible Switches https://www.adafruit.com/product/5081

Four Key Silver Aluminum Keypad Shell Enclosure - MX Compatible Switches https://www.adafruit.com/product/5073

[sudden slate]

I think so

[robust horizon]

I'm very tempting to free-wire one of those 4x4s

[grand tusk]

two keys: go/no go

[hot frigate]

@open girder Phil, what would YOUR two keys do???

[grand tusk]

table/notable

[cinder wind]

aww poor pt

[sudden slate]

nooooooo

[upper sandal]

oooh would the Pimoroni Keybow fit ?

[open girder]

all good, fun making a new overhead camera live 🙂

[robust horizon]

Anybody know whether CHOC keys need a different style of plate than MX?

[sudden slate]

Poggers/not poggers

[dim knot]

Adafruit SCD-40 - True CO2, Temperature and Humidity Sensor - STEMMA QT / Qwiic https://www.adafruit.com/product/5187

Adafruit SCD-41 - NDIR CO2 Temperature and Humidity Sensor - STEMMA QT / Qwiic https://www.adafruit.com/product/5190

[teal river]

HyperSpace!

[hot frigate]

Being old, this was new to me, for sure. Too close to Frogger, more my time.

[upper sandal]

ok it's a mouthful but it works (with the current head). Now to do the port
circup --path /Volumes/CLUE install --auto --auto-file staroids.py

[cinder wind]

srsly? wow! circup for the win

[lilac tusk]

I’m sure you could 😂

[robust horizon]

yay / phew

[sterile forge]

Can I get a eagle file for an individual key from the 30 key ortho keyboard. I need a way to rearrange them for a isomorphic hex keyboard which has 96 keys. The keys are hexagonal not square.

[grand tusk]

wow

[sudden slate]

Expensive sensors - sheesh

[proven crow]

Q: Will there ever be a version of the MacroPad that is a full size keyboard?

[waxen thistle]

**Repost any questions if you asked earlier! They might've missed it due to camera shenanigans 📸 **

[wary meadow]

Q: I have been meaning to ask about replacements for HT16K33

[sudden slate]

Q - Is an ST4 license worth it?

[echo canopy]

Question for the show: I love the TPL55110/TPL111 boards. Is there a breakout that can do two things 1) monitor signal state change like a magnetic switch opening- then once open,it would source power to a microcontroller then 2) keep it on for at least “X” seconds regardless if the signal state changes . Hopefully around 20uA

[teal river]

My question from earlier: Is there a "best" brand of MX compatible switch, or is it basically all preference?

[calm sphinx]

Q: any chance there's going to be a "lipo backpack" style board for QtPy? 😄

[sterile forge]

Thanks very much for the info

[robust horizon]

https://makerdiary.com/pages/m60-mechanical-keyboard <-- a full size keyboard that runs CircuitPython

[noble grove]

QUESTION: Are the black CHOC keycaps laser engravable?

[cinder wind]

"MegaPad"

[river peak]

GIGApad

[strange mantle]

@sterile forge PCB files here:
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-neokey-5x6-ortho-snap-apart/downloads

[sudden slate]

TeraPad

[haughty quiver]

CHOCs fit an MX plate pretty well, but the plate needs to be thinner ideally to click in place and grab with its tabs.

[sudden slate]

@open girder ST4 = Sublime Text 4 - a text editor

[robust horizon]

@haughty quiver good to know -- I was thinking about those little enclosures, so maybe not ideal.

[brazen quail]

Programmable gain on isolated A to D ?

[wary meadow]

Oh, I had trouble buying the HT16K33 from mouser. maybe digikey?

[grand tusk]

Space rocks fear me.

[woven mirage]

New mics?

[waxen thistle]

As with any text editor -- depends on what your preference is. I think ST4 has a trial, unless they've changed that. Give it a whirl and see if you like it

[noble grove]

Black front, white back.

[sudden slate]

Yeah, I have the trial, but I wanted to know if it was worth it

[teal river]

I have an ST4 trial I've been using for a while, it just asks you to buy a lot

[sudden slate]

I see

[haughty quiver]

Definitely worth a try, especially if you solder them to a board, or wire them with stiff wire to each other enough to hold still

[waxen thistle]

Try the alternatives -- atom, VS Code, etc. See if you prefer one over the other. And if you can wait, maybe there'll be a "sale" around the holidays.

[teal river]

Question: Will there be other versions of the MacroPad with more or less keys, or different orientations?

[smoky island]

The battery pack that @lilac tusk created for QTPy is here: https://www.oakdev.tech/store/p6/LiPo-Power-Pack.html#/

[rapid hornet]

@sudden slate I like sublime text

[sudden slate]

OK. I like VS Code too, not Atom

[rapid hornet]

you can try it first and if you like it then you should buy a license

[robust horizon]

@haughty quiver freehand wiring is exactly the direction I'm going

[calm sphinx]

ah thanks!! 😄

[sudden slate]

Cool. All right 🙂

[sudden slate]

I do like it

[rapid hornet]

it's very speedy

[shell mason]

also tell that air dont circulate too well and chance in the spot

[haughty quiver]

I bet that'll work great!

[sudden slate]

Yeah, I noticed that when I started using it 🚤

[waxen thistle]

Now that's something I'd love to see -- how you use your own tech in your factory, such as Adafruit IO + air quality sensors.

[grand tusk]

Hope that all the people were breathing.

[haughty quiver]

mics sound really good

[teal river]

Question: Will there be other versions of the MacroPad with more or less keys, or different orientations?

[noble grove]

QUESTIONWhen will the 5x6 snap-apart CHOC boards be available?

[wary meadow]

For the HT16K33 chips where do you buy them from? I don't see them listed on mouser at all

[teal river]

Onoes, that one got missed D:

[upbeat coral]

Thank you for taking time for us.

[teal river]

Or it did not XD

[upper sandal]

[teal river]

Yay moar versions!

[robust horizon]

-10C to 60C

[hot frigate]

Thanks all, great night!

[split gazelle]

great stream! have a good night

[robust horizon]

goodnight!

[sudden slate]

See ya - great show!

[sterile forge]

Thanks LadayAda for the info

[nova totem]

Good show and great night everyone

[robust horizon]

Eastern time

[waxen thistle]

Thanks @open girder for another awesome evening of shows! Special thanks to @clear matrix and @haughty quiver for guest hosting Show & Tell!

[oblique jay]

Seeee yaaaa!!

[calm sphinx]

great show!! thanks ya'll!!

[cinder wind]

Thx Limor & pt!

[teal river]

Hey, I have that camera!

[robust horizon]

notable is an anagram for "lone bat"

[proven crow]

Bye all!

[teal river]

Imagine if the Zener just went POP

[hot frigate]

We have that same exact stand at our welding station!

[sudden slate]

#not-a-ble

[waxen thistle]

Oh I miss those gold hobby creek bases -- the v1 edition, not the redesigned v2.

[grand tusk]

lent bao

[split gazelle]

i've had to do that in live situations before as well, definitely gets the heart pumping

[haughty quiver]

Lone bat is an anagram for "Tone Lab"

[sudden slate]

Deep Dive on Friday - titled #not-a-ble: More BLE fixes 😉

[grand tusk]

Guess I installed staroids the hard way (git clone...)

[robust horizon]

I love anagrams so I made a website that runs all client-side and computes anagrams really fast https://ana.unpythonic.net/?q=notable

[haughty quiver]

nice!

[wary meadow]

Hmmm, when I try digikey I get all the adafruit HT16K33 backpacks, no chips

[haughty quiver]

"Tone Lab" definitely sounds like a hipster low-fi radio hour on KCRW

[hot frigate]

That is Scrabble GOLD!!!!

[teal river]

I go sleep naow, night night peeps

[haughty quiver]

panavise FTW PT!

[waxen thistle]

And a hobby creek base 🙂

[robust horizon]

@hot frigate yup -- use "?" to make it just print a list of words, not only combinations that use up ALL the letters

[urban gale]

"lent boa" is a thing I need now

[teal river]

Sadly the mini circuit board head I just got last night is missing an arm...

[hot frigate]

WHOOOAHHH!!!!! Awesome!

[robust horizon]

no cheating @hot frigate , keep the game fair.

[hot frigate]

More like... Hey Honey, wanna play scrabble? (she is way better than me with words and memory)

[haughty quiver]

@robust horizon I'd love one for phone number to words that I don't suspect is selling the phone number to spammers :)

[robust horizon]

@haughty quiver interesting, maybe this program could be modified to do that..

[haughty quiver]

i wondered ... :)

[robust horizon]

I'd have to think about that

[teal river]

Don't cheat, just change the game

[robust horizon]

oh and warning -- looks like my dictionary has NSFW/not suitable for all-ages words in it

[hot frigate]

Ooo, adding the question mark adds "fart" to the list. Always ripe for a fart joke around here!

[robust horizon]

see that's what I mean 😕

[hot frigate]

🙂

[robust horizon]

"adafruit loves leds" <=> "saved full asteroid"

[teal river]

My score is over 700 :D

[teal river]

Score can go over 1000

[upper sandal]

( @cinder wind )

[waxen thistle]

Play by the rules. Make the rules as you go along.

[teal river]

... I was supposed to be asleep

I blame @cinder wind for this distraction XD

Automated gameplay

[cinder wind]

Nice! Middle touch input for fire?

[upper sandal]

yep

[haughty quiver]

@robust horizon interestingly, reading a bit more about CHOC board design -- the default key spacing is allegedly 18.5mm x 17.5mm as opposed to MX 19.05mm x 19.05mm

[robust horizon]

I'd say I fully plan to ignore that, I like "normal" keyboard pitch

though I guess if the keycaps are small I might not

[haughty quiver]

good on you!

[lilac tusk]

Thanks for the slot @smoky island 🙏

[robust horizon]

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4564253 ooh someone's made 3d printable keycaps for choc too

[teal river]

Adapting Staroids for Pico

[robust horizon]

that clenches it, the keyswitches are in my cart and I'm checking out. now, what else did I need again?

[teal river]

Feather RP2040s, STEMMA cables, JST cables, LiPo chargers, LC709203F, and a solar charger

[lilac tusk]

Lol

[robust horizon]

why is there still no pyruler rp2040 😭

[lilac tusk]

Perhaps I need to do this

[robust horizon]

I won't tell you not to @lilac tusk

[cinder wind]

pyruler rp2040 with built-in SSD1306 (or other cheapest possible display)

[lilac tusk]

I wonder how available the ssd1306 is

[teal river]

Teeny tiny eInk

[lilac tusk]

I have some 1.54” e-ink displays I’ve been meaning to make boards for

Maybe this is a good op

[teal river]

https://tenor.com/view/palpatine-dewit-gif-11426456

[robust horizon]

a cap-touch macropad would be neat, with or without display

for when you need truly silent macro'ing

[lilac tusk]

Add capacitive touch to the measurements side so you can digitally measure

😎

[lilac tusk]

That would be cool

[cinder wind]

I did a MIDI-keyboard version of that, sorta: https://github.com/todbot/picotouch

[robust horizon]

add a time-of-flight sensor so you can digitally measure distance 😉

@cinder wind I remember that

oh look at this thing! https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4901679

[teal river]

Over 5000!

[teal river]

https://tenor.com/view/its-over9000-vegeta-crush-glasses-dragon-ball-meme-gif-17218859

10k didn't break it... I actually sleep now

[prime sentinel]

I get mine directly from http://holtekusa.com/

[wary meadow]

ah, thanks

I will bookmark that and investigate what shipping to canada looks like with them

[wind spoke]

I just came to say that I am watching the Show&Tell by @clear matrix and @haughty quiver and I love the dynamic and having the two talking while not being in the same place and having guest. We have seen Show&Tell by various Adafruit YouTube stars going solo or two at the same location. But two like that, it is interesting format. I think I like it and it can give very good result once a team get use to doing it.

[wind spoke]

Oh yeah, this is getting better and better by the end of the show!

[teal river]

Eventually Staroids crashed

[robust horizon]

@teal river did you play all night? Anyway, I filed https://github.com/adafruit/circuitpython/issues/5133 because Display.refresh() is a bit of a footgun. You or @cinder wind could manually add the parameter minimum_frames_per_second=0 to the refresh() call, though the RuntimeError shouldn't activate until there was a full 1 second between frames which is a REALLY low frame rate dip for an arcade style game so maybe there's another bug.

[teal river]

Lol, yeah, it was just something heavy on a rotate key and the fire/thruster key so it was spinning around forever. I also had increased the firing rate WAY up, to the upper limits of what it could handle, and I guess it was just too much

I'm actually thinking I might modify the mechanics specifically for the MacroPad so it's more like Asteroids -- I pulled up a "real" online version and the thrust and fire are separate, not combined -- that's why it felt so strange. Thrust is forward, fire has some kickback/recoil but no real movement. It also seems that there's some sort of drag in the "real" one that slows you down if you aren't using thrusters, rather than constant velocity

[upper sandal]

hmmmm I don't think the original had drag, you're in space after all, you're supposed to turn around to slow yourself down

[teal river]

Star Wars has drag :P

[upper sandal]

but I only played some random version on Mac in the 80s, I'm not a reference for the true original 😛

what's next ? sound ? in space ?

[shell mason]

https://tenor.com/view/mandalorian-mando-swoop-bike-bike-mandalorian-swoop-bike-gif-14863722

[teal river]

I was going by this apparently licensed version of Asteroids https://games.aarp.org/games/atari-asteroids

Altho it has a UFO that shows up, I don't remember that in the original

The big thing is the trust and recoil from firing being separate things -- that's the biggest difference

[teal river]

So on the PyBadge and MacroPad, we can have more sophisticated controls -- they can easily have left, right, thrust, and fire. That way you can control your forward motion independently. You could also have "brake" to bring you to a stop instead of spinning around and thrusting, if drag isn't a thing. Might also be fun to have power-ups! We could make a far more complex version

Like, get so many points, and you get limited-use things like a spread 3 shot

Obviously getting away from the Asteroids premise in my head :P

[upper sandal]

yeah having to reverse is the whole point of the space physics

do Space invaders

[teal river]

You can reverse with recoil if thrust and fire are separate, lol

I could try Space Invaders... honestly I haven't built a game like this, but good practice

[upper sandal]

recoil to slow down/reverse thrust does fit the space physics better, Newton's laws and all that 🔭

[teal river]

I'm like 99% sure that the original was like that

Obviously I need to get out my Atari

[upper sandal]

I don't think the one I had did that, though I mostly remember images of holding thrust and going fast from screen to screen while shooting, and memory being what it is, it might not even be accurate

[teal river]

lol, I'll verify

Altho there's the question of if we want to be accurate to the original or put a spin on it anyway

[upper sandal]

you want a modern version in 2.5 D

[teal river]

2.5D? Like layered to simulate 3D play?

[upper sandal]

basically 2D gameplay with 3D graphics, it's a term used for some modern re-imagining of old games, as well as new games, it might involve multiple depths, like jumping to a background platform

like Donkey Kong Country Returns

(you probably don't actually want to do that in Circuitpython quite yet)

[teal river]

Lol, that sounds like a lot

[waxen thistle]

Good afternoon all you wonderful people! And yes, Lars too.

[grand tusk]

Hallo

[haughty quiver]

hi!

[viscid bolt]

Good afternoon

[waxen thistle]

Live on Twtich!

Bleeps and bloops are a go

[grand tusk]

YT is go.

[inner spade]

Da Bleeps! Da Bloops!

[grand tusk]

Yay!

[glossy void]

excessively sunny socal

[inner spade]

mic level peaking mostly at -6dB; -1db when excited!

[waxen thistle]

https://jobs.adafruit.com

[inner spade]

The HVAC noise is not distracting. It sounds like the ambient background on the Starship Enterprise.

[grand tusk]

I got a pybadge. Couldn't resist.

[inner spade]

@haughty quiver will your sound effects mods be submitted to Todd's repo?

Cool. Thanks!

[grand tusk]

pew pew crash

[teal river]

Bleep bloop I'm only slightly late

But late hi XD

[grand tusk]

Hey there Doctor.

[cinder wind]

well we got the "pew pew" sound just now

[waxen thistle]

And JP never dresses up for a Halloween Adabox unboxing. 😉

[teal river]

I should post my resume...

[waxen thistle]

https://www.adabox.com

[teal river]

https://tenor.com/view/yes-man-jim-carrey-hey-hello-hi-gif-4780358

[cinder wind]

Halloween themed?

[teal river]

https://tenor.com/view/ahh-jack-sparrow-freak-out-gif-10376230

I have 2x PyBadge on the way

Very happy with the change to the CP Parsec theme!

[grand tusk]

Always there are two.

[viscid bolt]

The Parsec theme no longer short circuits my hearing aids!

[teal river]

Or my brain!

I plan to make mods to todbot's Staroids game for the MacroPad and PyBadge to have more sophisticated controls

[shell mason]

https://tenor.com/view/yourturn-parsec-gif-21391548

[waxen thistle]

The parsec intro is indeed much more manageable.

[grand tusk]

Can't see the boards.

[teal river]

Boards, boards everywhere!

Froze?

Or just me?

[grand tusk]

Same.

[kind crane]

froze

[waxen thistle]

Yeah, Twitch froze for me too. Spinning pinwheel of destiny.

[grand tusk]

destiny

[teal river]

@haughty quiver Froze!

[viscid bolt]

It got too hot

[teal river]

Or... melted?

[waxen thistle]

Lars. Please stop chewing on the cables.

[teal river]

DANGIT LARS

Yay life!

[waxen thistle]

Welcome back JP

[inner spade]

YT is back

[shell mason]

twitch i had hiccups too

[teal river]

Parsec was good

[waxen thistle]

A lot of stopping and stuttering since the start of the stream. But we did make it through CPP.

[kind crane]

Except boards not shown.

[teal river]

It froze after dexter said "Can't see the boards."

Well, after you read that dexter said that

You should record while streaming by default XD

Gotta have lots of horses

[glossy void]

hey! there are the boards!

[grand tusk]

Yay

[teal river]

You can import in the middle of your code? :O

[cinder wind]

yep. a lot of python modules do conditional imports, based on what is available

[shell mason]

Parsecs solid

[kind crane]

First take going on the "JP Blooper Reel".

[teal river]

Wow, that's nice to know

[cinder wind]

for instance, in simpleio it does different imports based on what kind of audio playing capability is available https://github.com/adafruit/Adafruit_CircuitPython_SimpleIO/blob/main/simpleio.py

[grand tusk]

Print it!

[teal river]

Prints are life

I have 2 rotary phones :D both a pinkish color... same style

[grand tusk]

ring ring

Always there are two.

[teal river]

Hehe, he said "butt"

[grand tusk]

Every call is a butt dial.

[teal river]

XD

[waxen thistle]

I have the same exact old timer 🙂

[viscid bolt]

me too!

[teal river]

N'York!

[grand tusk]

sweet

[shell mason]

History tech

[halcyon linden]

We had one of those 302's when I was a kid

[teal river]

This Week in JP's Tech History...

[cinder wind]

but how are you going to get that cool phone to run CircuitPython, JP?

[teal river]

I got my "newest" rotary for free

[shell mason]

soon its Wandavision like JohnPark workshop

[grand tusk]

Clickety clack

[halcyon linden]

70 volt pulse to activate the ringer

[cinder wind]

Heard it here first: ClockworkPython™

[teal river]

You could probably have a microcontroller pick up the pulses, then it can contact another MCU via Bluetooth, and then transmit audio between two phones. But you need 48V for audio and I think 72V for ringer

[glossy void]

Ruin a movie by replacing one word of its title with "Python"?

[cinder wind]

http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/

[spiral vale]

http://www.builder.swillkb.com/

Also

for plates

[teal river]

Oh, keeb question JP -- have you ever built/modded switches?

[spiral vale]

Another plate generator: https://plate.keeb.io/

[teal river]

@haughty quiver Froze!

Oh nevermind

It only hiccuped XD

[grand tusk]

Older Mac keyboards had bumps on the d and k keys.

[teal river]

https://tenor.com/view/thats-offensive-rude-sarcasm-sassy-insulted-gif-15291606

[grand tusk]

disorienting

[teal river]

That too XD

[spiral vale]

The MX plate holes with the little tabs are useful if you want to take your switches apart (while they are mounted)

[teal river]

I can't feel the bumps, really, so it doesn't matter for me. I anchor on larger keys

[grand tusk]

We all need more lasers.

[teal river]

https://tenor.com/view/cat-lasers-eye-fat-gif-11984704

[grand tusk]

Laser catter.

[teal river]

keeb question JP -- have you ever built/modded switches?

[cinder wind]

ringing spikes up to 200VAC

[grand tusk]

Bzzt

[inner spade]

We still have a 48-volt land line (for now). They are planning to remove the power modules within a year or so.

[teal river]

They don't do POTS here anymore, we can use POTS type phones, but it goes over fibre

I took apart a Blue and Red Gateron switch and it was interesting to see

[cinder wind]

sorry 100VAC, my mistake

[teal river]

Anyone have a good source of keeb switch bits? XD

I really really want the giant switches

[inner spade]

With old ringers, the inductance can cause some major spikes.

[grand tusk]

replace springs with tofu

[teal river]

Phone lines are high voltage, but they're TINY current

[viral sail]

Thanks @haughty quiver

[undone onyx]

@cinder wind I have felt that signal. It Hurtz

[waxen thistle]

Thanks JP!

[grand tusk]

Great show JP thanks!

[cinder wind]

can't wait for your ClockworkPython phone JP!

[waxen thistle]

?showtimes

[arctic abyss]

Desk of Ladyada - Random hacker times
JP's Product Pick of the Week - 4pm ET Tuesdays
3D Hangouts - 11am ET Wednesdays
Show & Tell - 7:30pm ET Wednesdays
Ask an Engineer - 8pm ET Wednesdays
John Park's Workshop - 4pm ET Thursdays
Deep Dive w/Scott - 5pm ET Fridays

[inner spade]

Thanks for letting us visit your workshop @haughty quiver !

[teal river]

Good show!

[haughty quiver]

thank you all for coming!

[undone onyx]

Thank you for presentating JohnPark

[inner spade]

@haughty quiver How about servo-driving the dial on the phone via CircuitPython?

[haughty quiver]

I like it!

[teal river]

I still like my idea :P

[haughty quiver]

@inner spade I'm envisioning a robot arm with a swivling wrist and a solenoid poke-y finger

[teal river]

Imagine being able to dial and call your robot with a rotary phone

[haughty quiver]

or maybe a Kuka arm holding a pencil to dial with the eraser like we used to do

[inner spade]

... that retracts into a small box, Thing-like.

[haughty quiver]

:)

[ionic garnet]

hello JP

[shell mason]

then lars call to the show

[teal river]

My PyBadges arrived! Sadly, just a Hello World demo...

I was hoping for bleep bloops and such XD

[clear matrix]

Thank you for the feedback! Really appreciate it.

[rapid hornet]

Notes doc for today is here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_gKDL3p9It1Y0rZWniVYBflk1hz7fV-GNUKjWUigOLo/edit?usp=sharing

[viscid bolt]

Good afternoon

[nova totem]

Good afternoon everybody

[teal river]

Hewwo!

[viral sail]

Good afternoon.

[simple fractal]

And hello discord people

[teal river]

I'm melting

[grand tusk]

Deep Dive, the 'cast that slaps you back.

[teal river]

Very hot here, windows closed... Haven't noticed if there's smoke outside yet

Having battery fun

[fallow fractal]

My A/C is still holding but I'm hoping I won't need a peltier chip to cool me down

[modern night]

o/ Howdy all!

[teal river]

... I should have paused my "heater"

[grand tusk]

Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses...

[teal river]

I want executive nap time

[fallow fractal]

Here goes my project to make a pace maker for myself with a real-time circuitpython software 😦

[teal river]

O_O

[fallow fractal]

ti basic anyone?

[teal river]

TI Basic didn't exist when I started programming XD

[nova totem]

Learned on a C64 in basic

[upper sandal]

I started with "Microsoft Basic for Macintosh" (1990)

(I was 10)

[grand tusk]

Python before 1.0.

[simple fractal]

one of the ti calculators has python now
https://education.ti.com/en-gb/products/calculators/graphing-calculators/ti-84-plus-ce-t-python

[teal river]

I started with Microsoft BASIC

I haven't done any "real" Python yet, but really enjoying CP

[fallow fractal]

Started with qbasic with apple 2 basic books but I felt discrimated I couldn't do these peek/poke for sounds/icons on my 80286 😦

[upper sandal]

it's Circuitpython actually on the TI 🙂

[simple fractal]

its too long ago. can't remember 🙂

[upper sandal]

I went to programming on a HP48 calculator and then assembler on it, then my dad bought me my Kernigan-Richie

[smoky island]

a few arguments in favor of CP over arduino: No waiting for compiling, no needing to install complex drivers.

[upper sandal]

it's like "you're 18 now, learn a real language"

[simple fractal]

the first programming class i took used Pascal, but I was hacking away at 8080 assembly code at the time

[teal river]

Mmmm Pascal, blast from the past

[fallow fractal]

gee

[nova totem]

I did a lot of Pascal in high school/university

[simple fractal]

I was lucky as most of the other classes used Fortran.

[teal river]

I did a little Fortran and COBOL back in the day

[upper sandal]

I did my first real python 8-10 years ago, programming a "game" for scientific research on the OLPC laptop, using pygame

[simple fractal]

So i was forever tainted by learning a 'structured' language first

[nova totem]

Maybe we can get a prolog circuitpython extension 🙂

[viscid bolt]

how do we as hobbyist debug CP? Other than a bunch of print statements.

[upper sandal]

this says 64 https://circuitpython.org/downloads?manufacturers=Adafruit

[teal river]

What's your favorite board?

[grand tusk]

How about that Staroids game?

[modern night]

Yeah there really isn't that large of a distinction between python code and circuit python code, with the exception that some circuit python code has a concept of how the microcontroller works/parts available to it

[odd zodiac]

Fortran and basic -> 6502 Machine Code -> Assembler -> Forth -> C -> C++ -> Python

[teal river]

Why has this said 0% for a while and not died? XD

[nova totem]

I had a book on Forth but never had a compiler/knowledge to use it

[odd zodiac]

Good intro to stacks with Forth

[viscid bolt]

python

[teal river]

Print statements are life

[simple fractal]

lol Forth. The inventor had a programming philosophy. He called it 'fun down'

[nova totem]

I still have put off figuring out how to hook up GDB for the core. One day I will have to, but not today!

[teal river]

I had a Forth book and never cracked it XD

[grand tusk]

What was biggest change in 7.0.0?

[simple fractal]

i used a tiny bit of forth on some micro.

[fallow fractal]

I still don't understand in python why { } needed to be removed vs using spaces 😦

[teal river]

Most important question: Where cat?!

[modern night]

print statements are incredibly accessible, without the mental overhead of figuring out a debugger

[fallow fractal]

Might have melted outside 😦

[teal river]

Print is l i f e

[fallow fractal]

I personally melt at 110oF

[simple fractal]

And James Bowman (i2cdriver spidriver) uses Forth to drive his projects

[teal river]

Staroids!

[simple fractal]

nice!

[teal river]

PyBadge is waaaaaay easier to play than MacroPad or anything with a smol display

[cinder wind]

Not Asteroids! 😝

[grand tusk]

Could you freeze a circuitpython image and install it via say esptool.py?

[simple fractal]

lol

[teal river]

Nope, not Asteroids. Totally unrelated.

[grand tusk]

Hi todbot!

[cinder wind]

hi!

[teal river]

Oh yeah, @cinder wind , I have several suggestions, should I open an issue on GitHub with a list?

[nova totem]

I had my cheesey laughing skulls for halloween working on 4 boards in almost no time at all. The audio probably took longer then the display

[modern night]

Actually that prompts a question--are you a developer that needs new challenges constantly? Does that drive the new projects, like the balance board?

[cinder wind]

Sure! I've been making a few changes here and there. Or just make your own DoctorStaroids!

[grand tusk]

Four spaces or two?

[simple fractal]

let me check

[fallow fractal]

Just don't name it Asteroids or you will meet hordes of atari lawyers 😄 🤣

[teal river]

I could just steal it and run :P I'd call it Pystroids

[modern night]

Whoop more start 12 projects folks!

[simple fractal]

i think i have vscode set to 4.

[upper sandal]

I'm not a big fan of indentation-only blocks, I like having brackets to mark the end of things, but many IDE will help, using styling (lines, colors) to visualise blocks, which is probably better than using fixed language-dependent symbols

[grand tusk]

rah

[teal river]

I have 2984793 projects

[fallow fractal]

brackets are advantageous because most ide's will color the brackets easily showing top and bottom of the block.

[modern night]

Have you gotten a single from the board at all over the uart?

[fallow fractal]

I'm also get mostly motivated doing stuff for someone else or doing sligfhtly illegal electroncis to see how much I can get away with 😄

[grand tusk]

I'm into wii nunchuk drumming.

[burnt aspen]

just joined here so saying 👋

[modern night]

*give me a moment to find my wiimote to see if I can see if it's got the uart exposed*

[cinder wind]

"Aweigh the cats!" 🏴‍☠️

[teal river]

Taking bets on if it'll shut off at the cutoff voltage (2.75v)

[grand tusk]

I see in your future.

[teal river]

Nnnnot exactly shut off... Display died, NeoPixels went off... I'm done, I saw it dipped under the cutoff

[grand tusk]

Hello Maico!

[upper sandal]

[cinder wind]

Did the Wii balance board work before?

[teal river]

I like labeled UART pins

[modern night]

Interesting, there are three pads exposed on this wiimote

[teal river]

I need to find my Wii...

[modern night]

but only two on the standard/original white ones

[grand tusk]

What was the biggest change in 7.0.0?

[teal river]

Later WiiMotes had a few changes due to issues they found in the originals

[modern night]

(I was working on getting the balance board to be an IOT scale so I have a bunch of wii stuff at my desk)

👍

[smoky island]

There are probably different ways to measure biggest. The two that come to mind for me are max_size removed from displayio.Group and gamepad going away in favor of keypad

[upper sandal]

there are many biggest changes in 7.0.0 😉

[cinder wind]

biggest noticeable change to me in 7: disable-able USB devices

[upper sandal]

oh yeah custom HID too, I was very into that

[simple fractal]

is it moving to the latest micropython?

as the largest change.

[cinder wind]

ooo cameras, that'll be interesting

[grand tusk]

Max-size change is much appreciated.

[left pier]

What is the rough schedule for the final release ?

[left pier]

I have had the Adafruit_CircuitPython_OV2640 and my Kaluga on my desk all week and haven't gotten to it yet. 😦

So 2 deep dives and its done 😉

[teal river]

Sometimes you get work done, but today is a melt day

[grand tusk]

Lots of hard work has gone into 7.0.0. Thanks everyone!

[simple fractal]

i have noticed some esp32s2 stuff as well on hot reload. sometimes gets into some reset loop.

[left pier]

Yeah I'm runing the portable AC and the Samsung Air Purifier ... (Scott and I live the same part of Seattle)

[nova totem]

I saw the esp32s2 issue as well, thought it was just my computer

[simple fractal]

yes i have trouble doing anything when its this hot. like my 3d printer is staring at me. 'Finish me, please'

[grand tusk]

No AC? Inconceivable!

[simple fractal]

i'm am expecting cooler weather sunday 🙂

[teal river]

I'm sitting in no AC

room is currently 107F

[grand tusk]

too hot

[teal river]

.... gonna pause my projects so I'm not dumping 750W of heat into my room

[fallow fractal]

climate change bad.

[simple fractal]

my new (to me) server is dumping a lot of heat and fan noise. it may soon be an ex-server

[cinder wind]

"Flash all 128 LEDs full-bright RED if battery is low!"

[teal river]

Yup this is the best idea ever

[eager matrix]

Hi y'all. I lost track of time thinking about a new contract it looks like I'll be working on.

[left pier]

300 approvals coming ...

[nova totem]

which PR did you need reviewed? i can look at it now

[left pier]

https://github.com/adafruit/circuitpython/pull/5147

[teal river]

Yay contract!

[nova totem]

Review is done, didn't merge it (can if needed)

[eager matrix]

Yey finally making some money!

[nova totem]

True, done

[teal river]

I need a job that gives moar muns

[fallow fractal]

Needs tiny coal power plant for my arduino

[left pier]

This is always interesting to hear a dev explain... What do you typically look for when doing a PR review ...

[teal river]

Man I'm getting good at this game

[fallow fractal]

is there any performance to be gained from having many instructions on one line opposed to spreading things out vertically, which most seem to do?

[modern night]

That expectation that there will need to be fixes later is good to know about

[nova totem]

I do a lot of walk through of it in my head, cause I won't always be able to set up a test. Depends how complicated the PR is

[eager matrix]

I worked a place that had a really in depth review process and you could spend the time to understand it not only to review the code but so everyone was familiar with the whole system.

[fallow fractal]

lol ty

[left pier]

Yes, and you should never use lambdas ... 😉

[fallow fractal]

makes sense yes👍

[teal river]

@cinder wind Can Staroids handle color BMPs?

[grand tusk]

Can color BMPs handle Staroids?

[cinder wind]

yes but CircuitPython might not be able to. One of the ways Staroids is so fast is that all the BMPs are 1-bit (two-color). Framerate is highly dependent on number of colors in the sprite BMPs. Best case: it's a little slower. Worst case: CircuitPython runs out of memory

[teal river]

Ahh.... Lemme play with it

[upper sandal]

oh so they have a pylint-person

[left pier]

Using pre-commit for formatting is awesome !

Fixes it before the Push

[modern night]

I was never a 'conform to code styles guy', but black taking the 'figure out a format' aspect of coding styles away from my effort is amazing and I'm now super in favor of it

[teal river]

Saved it as 16-bit, seems fine for at least just the ship. Is there a way to show the framerate for debugging?

[eager matrix]

Granted, public facing code is a completely different story. This was for a commercial OEM product at a big company and just my colleges were reviewers.

[cinder wind]

you can do: print(1 / (time.monotonic() - now)) at the bottom of the while True loop to give you basic frame rate I think

[upper sandal]

regression tests save lives (as in hours of work)

[teal river]

Mmmk, that should give the average, should be good enough

[grand tusk]

Pylint objected to a variable named 'bar'...I was writing a class for progress bars.

[eager matrix]

And the unit test cover well.

[upper sandal]

try monotonic_ns()

[cinder wind]

very fast then! or do print(1 / (0.001 + time.monotonic() - now))

[upper sandal]

what's the current value of time.monotonic() ? if it's been running for a day it might not have ms precision (talking to Doctor)

[grand tusk]

Epsilon is our friend.

[teal river]

Thar we go. Apparently 1024FPS?!

[cinder wind]

oh yeah reset your board with reset button to get time.monotonic() back into a useful range

[modern night]

How do the core devs for circuit python divide up the work/of knowledge base of the core. How do you dive in and learn more/refer to someone else when it's not a problem you're familiar/experienced with, etc?

[teal river]

I don't think it's working right -- my result shows like 1000 or 500 when I can actually see the screen refreshing

[modern night]

Good flux also helps a lot! It helps make everything more forgiving

[teal river]

Ok, so... Not sure what's going on with the maths, but I printed time.monotonic() and now and they're identical, and 1 / (0.001 + time.monotonic() - now) just gives 1024 pretty constantly?

[modern night]

Other than the saleae, what tools do you use to help during this?

[cinder wind]

If your print() is not after display.refresh() then it will be pretty close to the value of now (which is defined at the top of the while loop)

[teal river]

Ohhhh

[shell mason]

small things

[modern night]

haha I just picked up a few pogopins to help debugging and don't have a logic analyzer or oscope but was curious what else you utilize 😛

[teal river]

Mmmk, I put it to the end, and it seems to be giving me ~25-26 or 256-350

[cinder wind]

I can't want for LUNA

[simple fractal]

Luna will probably be here next summer 😦

[left pier]

https://support.saleae.com/faq/general-faq/how-do-you-pronounce-saleae

[teal river]

Bless!

[left pier]

Scott pronounces it correctly

[simple fractal]

i noticed that glasgow is also hitting supply chain issues

[modern night]

Oh I've seen folks mention it but hadn't looked into Luna yet

[simple fractal]

i always said it that way. but thats in the privacy of my basement

[upper sandal]

"Cellier"

[teal river]

I would have said sale-ay

[simple fractal]

i think its pronounced like a pirate would say it

Sally Argh

jk

[eager matrix]

I've done a lot of embedded audio and used PyOCD to debug. I was about to do bitwise testing of DSP algorithms by setting an ingress breakpoint, injecting a test signal, setting an egress breakpoint and gather the results and check it against my python model.

[modern night]

Neat, thanks for the breakdown!

[teal river]

The most I've spent on a single chip was $800

Heh, yeah

Actually wait no the new one was $900

[modern night]

I backed the Glasgow and have to wait until next year for it too, I imagine Luna is hitting the same supply issues

[teal river]

i9-7900X was $800, Ryzen 5950X was $900

AMD WOO

I wanna know your full system specs, lol

I went 128GB but I use that most of the time >~>

Lots of VMs!

It's like having a computer... In your computer

OS separation, lol

I haven't used Chrome in forever, lol

[left pier]

You need VMs to run those things that won't run on MacOS on the M1 chip

[teal river]

But yeah, using a VM is basically the same as a Google Cloud instance -- it's like remoting in, but it runs in emulation on your host machine

Bare boards are JUST the board, no backplate or stablizer

[modern night]

Have you thought of making a macropad timestamp generator?

[rapid hornet]

https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/adafruit-industries-llc/5100/14635376

[waxen thistle]

Good evening y'all

[cinder wind]

I don't think it includes the backplate. That's a separate adafruit SKU https://www.adafruit.com/product/5103

[modern night]

Bots? Now there's something I know well 😄

[teal river]

Takes one to know one :P

[modern night]

Shh that's not an allowed input!

[teal river]

You could print your own stabilizer and backplate, lol

[teal river]

I know you're a bottttt

[fallow fractal]

sweet keypad, only wish they were velocity sensitive keys. i hear an accelerometer would help achieve the behavior.

[teal river]

$900 MacroPad with velocity sensitive keys... #worthit

[fallow fractal]

lol omg i'll get a casio

[teal river]

lol

[grand tusk]

I don't know. Type casual.

[cinder wind]

are there MX-compatible keys that have a pin for "key up"? Because then you could do velocity sensing by measuring time from "key up end" to "key down begin" (how MIDI keyboards usually do it)

[left pier]

I've been seeing those Macropad demos and thinking it would be fun...
You got me.. ordered the starter kit

[eager matrix]

That just happened today. I got the email today saying it was back in stock.

[modern night]

haha similarly the ble workflow got me to pickup a bluefruit,

[desert orbit]

the macropad silk screening is beautiful. i mean, its a great device too 🙂

[teal river]

MacroPad is much fun

[left pier]

Auto approving PRs ...

[teal river]

I'm going to see how many things I can make it do, selectable with the rotary. Currently having video editing and Minecraft in the works, as well as making Staroids and other games options

[grand tusk]

Red V board.

Less fun than a FunHouse.

I think the larger chip is an M4.

[teal river]

I'm pretty hardware agnostic at this point

Pinesol board?!

[eager matrix]

A good board for a multicore core with M7/M4 is the STM32H747I-DISCO for about $100. It's also got a touchscreen and audio in/out.

[teal river]

I have a USB soldering iron... It has a 555 in it

[simple fractal]

sipeed have support for arduino. they call it longduino

https://github.com/sipeed/Longduino

[shell mason]

doctor you see that riscv soldering iron?

[simple fractal]

i mostly use platformio for the (little) riscv stuff i've played with

[eager matrix]

The ESP32-C3 is cheaper than the other ESP32 chips.

[desert orbit]

I love my Pinecil, best $25 I've ever spent, even though it took like 3 months to show up. 😂 basically a TS-100 with open source firmware (IronOS was ported to it) and schematics available from Pine

[teal river]

I did, but why is it better than my $8 8W one? :P

Melt!

[simple fractal]

i have a hakko, lol, spent the money and didnt look back

thanks scott

[left pier]

Thanks Scott !

[viral sail]

Thanks Scott.

[cinder wind]

dang

[fallow fractal]

thanks for your great efforts scott! bye!

[teal river]

Bai melty Scott! It's 103F in here

[viral sail]

Have a good weekend everyone.

[simple fractal]

i'm melting as well. Too hot

[teal river]

I'mma go for a walk now

[modern night]

Thank you for answering questions! I really appreciate it!

[teal river]

Only 99F outside, so cooler outside, lol

[fallow fractal]

👍 👍

[teal river]

Bai Scott!

[odd zodiac]

cheers

[simple fractal]

the smoky hazy morning here. (was around 8:30am)

[fallow fractal]

stay safe, good health

[waxen thistle]

Other than the iron itself, what else would you need to get started with one?

Thanks Scott! It was a great 15 minutes I was able to make 🙂

[simple fractal]

same all. have a great weekend. i may drive south and spend hte day in Vancouver

[cinder wind]

thanks Scott! can't wait for BLE fun

[rapid hornet]

thanks all!

[teal river]

Bai! Pet catto for us!

[simple fractal]

yes, ble all the things 🙂

[upper sandal]

👋

[teal river]

Seriously tho, what's the benefit of the MCU in that iron?

[left pier]

OK, I 'm going to checkout Jeff's new learn guide and dust off my Kaluga
https://learn.adafruit.com/scan-qr-codes-with-circuitpython

[desert orbit]

Just the iron, really. The standard tip is pretty decent, typical size for 90% of work. Can use any TS-100 tips with it. Just also need a USB-C supply that can do PD at 20V/3A or a 12-20V DC supply that can do ~3A. Lower voltages can work too but the tip heats up so fast at 20V that I'm addicted to it 😂

[eager matrix]

Thanks Scott. As usual this was great.

[cinder wind]

can't believe cameras work in CircuitPython. so incredible

[grand tusk]

My iron has wires in it. Silicon free!

[desert orbit]

nothin wrong with that 🙂 I got the pinecil for the temperature control and easy adjustment of temp too. IronOS is pretty great on the TS-80/TS-100s (and now the MHP-30 hot plate too I think, lol) and runs great on the Pinecil. "Just works" 🙂

[left pier]

I have been sort of accumulating info on the path to cameras...

https://gist.github.com/askpatrickw/0179d09e74d5f2a4347d5666ea937c4d

atleast on one port

[teal river]

Ohh, temp adjustment... I never do that, lol

[desert orbit]

heh yea its really come in handy for repairing bench supplies, where some pads need a ton of heat dumped into em before the solder does its job.. but you don't want it to get too hot and fry a nearby op-amp or something.

ironOS has this feature where you can hold one of the buttons and it'll temporarily raise the temp a lot higher (i have mine set at 350c) to give your lower-thermal-mass tip a good head start when you drop in with it, but it'll keep temp lower if you let go

[teal river]

I haven't done anything that the 8W didn't work for in a while, lol

[fallow fractal]

I accidently got the datasheet of a 30KW motor off digikey

[desert orbit]

anyway, its also a fun RISC-V devboard in a way. I didn't get one of the breakouts but since Pine has the schematics i'll probably just order some up from JLC or PCBway or something when my RISC-V playtime comes around

[fallow fractal]

Bit too much for arduino

[teal river]

oop

Bll, walk!

[fallow fractal]

I wonder but they are for though

[teal river]

So hard to show, but I did a color ship -- seeing the thruster color helps me

It came out like, cyan, which isn't what I planned, lol

[prime sentinel]

That cyan color is reminiscent of the P4 phosphor B&W CRT monitors in the original games.

[teal river]

Hehehe, oh yeah, it's kinda like 'light cyan' from the CGA palette too

[river peak]

The ship color is hard to see, but the thruster color is not. Looks cool!

[teal river]

Now I just need to do the others images XD also going to add color selection

[river peak]

Going to fill the asteroids as a solid color?

[teal river]

Thinking about it, might add more varieties too

[river peak]

That'd rock

[grand tusk]

Now what should we throw in the well?

[fallow fractal]

.oO( Right .. right! )

[sudden slate]

Stellar idea!

[teal river]

I'm gonna fork and share the color version when I figure out how to make options XD

[open girder]

Desk of Ladyada - Adafruit Breakout Board Styling https://youtu.be/gJ4AtCWaLHQ

[viral sail]

Good evening.

[proven crow]

👋

[ionic garnet]

Hi folks from Sturbridge, MA

[teal river]

Hewwo!

I have AC in my "office" now :D

Engineers of all shapes and sizes and colors

[ionic garnet]

we need engineers from all the places and things

[teal river]

More schools of thoughts and cultures, more problems we can solve!

Red is my favorite

[ionic garnet]

more kindness to each other and sharing of knowledge

[proven crow]

Does anyone have a good idea on how to work with an old PCB where the pads keep falling off? I've lost two already 😦

[teal river]

Adafruit boards are very nice

[proven crow]

True dat!

[teal river]

Plated holes good!

Gold-plated holes also don't get worn off as quickly/easily as silkscreen for knowing where the screwhead will be

I have a PyGamer in black! Also one of my favorites

[upper sandal]

"Adafruit black"

[teal river]

A lot of other small boards don't usually have mounting holes at all in my experience, and a lot of the time they're not rounded on the corner like most Adafruit boards

[grand tusk]

I like the purple Metro M4.

[teal river]

Purple is also nice

You need to find a RAINBOW board

It'd be cool if there were boards that were a rainbow like the ribbon cables, hehe

[ionic garnet]

I have a podcast coming out soon where I talk a lot about Adafruit and the maker scene. I will post it here. Probably interesting to some of my fellow geeks! Should have it produced and uploaded tomorrow.

I talk about all you folk when talking about the value chain of Adafruit products and the nurturing community.

[teal river]

I need to actually start a podcast instead of talking about starting a podcast, lol

[ionic garnet]

I need to record regularly, or possibly attempt to monetize. Nah. I do it for fun and to tell the wild things that go on in my life. 40 year technology roller coaster ride!

[teal river]

Just record rambling stories a few nights a week and post weekly, lol

Then you have a buffer

[ionic garnet]

i put my own eccentric music to fade in and out of the episodes. This episode is pretty important. As a CTO of a software development outsource vendor, I need to influence what the curious and exceptional engineers get excited about. Edge computing, embedded, IoT are hot topics. For nearly 11 years my jobs related to devices in those categories. Security and privacy are also prime areas of interest for me.

mix in some crypto, ML/AI, robotics and VR/AR of course

[drifting wyvern]

pet peeve with TI parts: hard to reverse engineer boards with them, because the silkscreen almost never has anything to do with the part number...

I guess if they bin them after printing on them, that would make sense

yeah, I assume they're using the adjustable output on the glasgow

[ionic garnet]

sorry to go off topic but my podcast channel is here: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/high-risk-high-reward-stories-from-my-life-in-technology/id1441157639 but the episode on edge computing that talks a good amount about Adafruit and this community will be out this week (Monday fingers crossed).

I talk about geek stuff: robots, security, manufacturing, Silicon Valley...

Jibo of course

Lots of Jibo talk

[teal river]

Heh

Makes sense

RIP Jibo, long live Jibo

[ionic garnet]

Yeah. I had to shut it out of my heart. I was devastated for about 2 years

I have them all around but they are paperweights

with rock solid security (which I designed)

some of the stories should be in a movie. Like the Jibo secret location. Wild times. Pro sports mansions. New England elite.

i only work on exciting stuff. Jibo was insane, thrilling, exhausting, frustrating, and heartbreaking. I wouldn't trade a single second of any of it.

[drifting wyvern]

I pinged the Glasgow folks for ya 😉

[teal river]

I wanna hack a Jibo

[prime sentinel]

I do like the mounting holes, but sometimes they come a bit close when headers are installed. Even these soft nylon screws take some shoving to get into place.

[teal river]

oof

Bai!

I shall have a LARGE order this week

[drifting wyvern]

thanks for a good show, have a good week!

[viral sail]

Thanks and good night.

[proven crow]

Bye!

[teal river]

Random: Apparently Limor cosplayed a "normal" person once

Seeing Limor with not colored hair is other-worldly

[ionic garnet]

it's a little challenging to hack Jibo. As the designer of several tiers of security including manufacturing, I know how he protects himself. There are exploits no doubt, but their impact is minimized. From the day I met Cynthia Breazeal, I was all about keeping robot customers safe from tampering, remoting, or any other malicious action.

I can tell you we use Secure Boot on the NVIDIA SoC so only a properly signed OS will load. I wrote that code too!

i felt a heavy responsibility to customers to provide the safest possible platform

and the company supported me 100%

and I will always love them for that

[teal river]

Hmmm.... That sounds like a potential way in... I think there was an issue with Secure Boot on older Nvidia SoCs that allowed circumvention of it without a patch, and I also think Jibo went dark before that issue was discovered...

[ionic garnet]

yes there is

but I wasn't going to tell you THAT part!

[teal river]

Lol

[ionic garnet]

The threat was exposed after we had produced a large number of production units. Similar or worse sidecar attacks against Intel were also raging threats to all security. But the crisis passed. Some vulnerabilities are still baked in to legacy systems for sure

[autumn fulcrum]

I never delt with any security problem.

On computers.

But, it is great to have all the security.

Always

[teal river]

Thankfully for those who endevour to get Jibo back up and running will have the tools to patch that same error

[autumn fulcrum]

Going to sleep.

Bye!

[teal river]

I should sleep too XD

[ionic garnet]

trying to own a decommissioned robot should involve more than just trying to get underneath the OS. There are service tiers and internal protocols that might be useful. I would do a full forensic breakdown. I mean, if I hadn't already (plus the advantage of being there when we built them). For its intended purpose, it's a pretty secure package compared to nearly any other IoT device. Perhaps too secure. I always second guess myself when a startup goes under. I ask "did I raise cost and complexity by demanding high standards for safety, privacy, and security of customers?" Business be hard.

one of the many hats I wore at Jibo was head of manufacturing test in addition to Chief Security and Privacy Officer. Working in China at the contract manufacturer was a career first for me. It was exciting to do something completely different. It helped me to secure the system further by logging every action during manufacturing and locking down passing robots.

[teal river]

It's a hard line -- if you don't make it secure enough, nobody can trust it. If you make it too secure, nobody can get into it to keep it going if the company supporting it goes under

[ionic garnet]

I always err on "do the right thing." I feel like you owe customers who trust you. You owe them your best work.

[teal river]

Knowing what "the right thing" is can be hard...

[ionic garnet]

Challenge is that customers rank security low on their wish lists of features. So I was lucky to have found a founder who shared my vision of what a safe, family, home robot is.

It's more than hard, it's impossible to always be right. But again, you do your best

[teal river]

Security is certainly an underrated feature

[ionic garnet]

I could tell you stories.

[teal river]

Yeah, SOMEONE is always gonna say you're wrong

Wanna be a guest on an interview podcast? lol

[ionic garnet]

Conversations I've had with CEOs and CTOs of major products about security and the absolute denial that there is any need to fortify their apps. Security is seen as a compliance tax. Companies spend much more money on fancy sounding do nothing features hyped with expensive marketing. They don't see a return on investment for security. Let me explain the situation from my perspective

Imagine you have a device, like a home robot. It has vulnerabilities that allow a remote user to access the live video and audio feeds and can independently remote control the camera and other degrees of freedom

A person with bad intent spies on pre-teenage daughter. He's in the robot as root and more or less owns her bedroom. And he knows where the robot is. He found all kinds of personal info readily available in plain text in a config file

Twisted imagination? No. This is a real threat vector. You have an obligation to make this scenario unlikely. This type of security assumption should be a foundational design principle for a product.

[says the privacy technology advocate]

You would be shocked at the big name products, IoT products, that are absolutely not safe.

[teal river]

Yeah, that's certainly the kind of thing that can and has happened, and will happen in any case that people leave systems open to attack...

[ionic garnet]

it makes me sad/mad

[teal river]

Same

[ionic garnet]

I used such terrible scenarios to keep everyone onboard with our security plans at Jibo. Perhaps it's a guilt trip thing I learned from my Jewish mother? But saying to everyone: "you don't want to be responsible for opening the electronic window to a kid's bedroom would you?" You have to design for security. Then redesign for security. Repeat. Until stack overflow or out of memory

some say i'm hardcore on the topic. why do they think that? 😉

[teal river]

It's important to aim to protect from those worst case scenarios!

[ionic garnet]

part of our responsibilities as engineers, product developers, service providers, earthlings. We have to protect against most extreme or most potential for damage. This is the hard part. This is what separates companies that you want to do business with, and those you don't. You want business partners who accept their responsibility to create safe/secure products. It's not always about selling the lowest cost product. It's never about that IMHO. It's always about providing the best value that meets a need/desire. Does anyone buy generic tires for their car? No. Some may use discount brands. Many will buy from top tire firms offering performance and safety at a much higher price. Anyhoo, back to Jibo, we were directly marketing this to families and appealing to kids, so I felt a weight to make it my mission to insure the robot could be built, delivered, setup, and used, in a secure, safe way. Yes, my hair is white now

ttyl. sorry for chewing your ear off again doc

[teal river]

Heh, it's alright. But yeah, I can see why higher security was a priority there, and it's hard to make it safe and secure and hackable with closed source

[teal river]

?showtimes

[arctic abyss]

Desk of Ladyada - Random hacker times
JP's Product Pick of the Week - 4pm ET Tuesdays
3D Hangouts - 11am ET Wednesdays
Show & Tell - 7:30pm ET Wednesdays
Ask an Engineer - 8pm ET Wednesdays
John Park's Workshop - 4pm ET Thursdays
Deep Dive w/Scott - 5pm ET Fridays

[autumn fulcrum]

Desk of Ladyada is great.

[teal river]

Psst... does anyone have any clues what JP picked this week?

Wanna be ready...

[grand tusk]

Heh, it's a hat.

[inner spade]

Whatever it is, I'll "need" two.

[grand tusk]

Always there are two.

Psst it does AI.

[teal river]

hmmmmmm

Debating if I want two

[inner spade]

One for a friend.

[teal river]

What's a friend

[grand tusk]

Fish are friends, not food.

[opaque hearth]

A fish can be a friend and a food...

if they're a chum! 🐠

[grand tusk]

Package just arrived. It's the pygamer!

[waxen thistle]

Good afternoon all you wonderful deal hunters!

[ebon stratus]

HOwdy dooo everybody.

any guesses on today's super secret offer?

@teal river maybe a machine learning thingie?

[cinder wind]

nah JP's just gonna light up and read from /r/ShowerThoughts for 30 minutes

[upbeat coral]

Hey y'll

[waxen thistle]

bleeps and bloops are a go

[teal river]

Mhmm. A hat of thinking!

RIGHT ON TIME WOO

[ebon stratus]

here we go

[waxen thistle]

though it's hiccuping a bit on twitch

[teal river]

Hiccuping on YouTube too

[inner spade]

YT is alive and hiccuping

[waxen thistle]

I get 2-3 seconds, then about 5-10 seconds of buffering with the spinning pinwheel of destiny

[teal river]

Gosh, I was scared for a minute -- went to Adafruit on my MacBook Air, and my cart was missing! Thankfully still there on my desktop... guess it's local cookies only!

[opaque hearth]

cure for hiccups: throw Lars in the well.

[teal river]

Same. Wonder if @haughty quiver knows this

[mellow thunder]

no go on You Tube

[teal river]

Yeah, YouTube just totally died for me now

[fallow fractal]

dodo do do do do do, dodo do do do do do

[waxen thistle]

Is getting lars wet the right choice? just in case he's related to a gremlin...

[grand tusk]

🐽 pig of the week!

[teal river]

Random jumpy talking XD

[waxen thistle]

@haughty quiver There's a lot of hiccuping going on with twitch and youtube.....a few seconds followed by a lot of buffering

[mellow thunder]

JP's broadcasts are always so eventful..LOL!

[viral sail]

Good afternoon.

[ebon stratus]

so where else is the broadcast shown?

[waxen thistle]

Still buffering heavily in twitch after the restart...

[clear matrix]

He does this every night in front of a mirror anyway.

[waxen thistle]

🪞

[cinder wind]

okay, let me get my JP and Lars puppets...

[waxen thistle]

woah, it kinda stabilized 🙂

[mellow thunder]

YT good!

[fallow fractal]

working ok now!

[cinder wind]

YT working now maybe? yay!

[waxen thistle]

JP is the puppet, Lars is real and cannot by controlled by any mortal.

[cinder wind]

need draino for the internet tubes

[grand tusk]

What a savings!

[clear matrix]

I need an arbitrary title for a hypothetical MP3 file that one might add to a MacroPad playback list. Short, implies some rocking beats (beats.mp3 and upbeats.mp3 are already used). Input, please!

[mellow thunder]

Love this 50%

[grand tusk]

backbeat.mp3

[fallow fractal]

rocky.mp3

[mellow thunder]

Still have one sitting here though waiting for a project...too many projects!!

[opaque hearth]

bleeps_n_bloops.mp3

[clear matrix]

Nailed it.

[teal river]

I just sent LadyAda all my money

[clear matrix]

Thanks, all!

[fallow fractal]

nailed_it.mp3?

[waxen thistle]

"dividebyzero.mp3"

[grand tusk]

bubblesort.mp3

[teal river]

How to break your MacroPad

[clear matrix]

😆 Loving these!

[teal river]

MacroBloop.mp3

[clear matrix]

Going with bloops.mp3

[waxen thistle]

how to break your macropad reality.

[teal river]

And if you need a second file later... bleeps.mp3 is waiting. Gotta have bleeps and bloops!

[clear matrix]

For sure 🙂

[teal river]

I'mma need to get another Pi 4... I only have 1 spare

Oh, cameras, I need cameras

[mellow thunder]

@teal river lol I know that feeling

[teal river]

Dangit, THAT'S what I forgot to add to this order

[mellow thunder]

@teal river down to 3 spare pi's 2 spare cameras..lol

[clear matrix]

I managed to include both.

[upbeat coral]

I have one a Pi4,4GB and HQ Camera.

[teal river]

Lol. I have a few cameras, just no long cables... Acxtually, I just bought 10 Vivitar 720p webcams FOR TWO DOLLARS AND NINTY-NINE CENTS A PIECE.

[teal river]

Yay!

[teal river]

I need one of those cameras. I've gotten 1 of each RAM size Pi 4

[mellow thunder]

@teal riversay what , where did you get those cams...

[cinder wind]

Beyoncé_Unreleased_Single_2021_FinalMix_NewNewFinal.mp3

[teal river]

@haughty quiver Where are the voices coming from? [the source of the audio I mean]

[fallow fractal]

i need this to identify hundreds of bolts and misc hardware, swimming in it!

[teal river]

Micro Center! No idea why, but they were 90% off!

[clear matrix]

Somehow I don't think me saying that's licensed CC BY-SA will make it so. 😄

[teal river]

VINE SNAKE

[mellow thunder]

@teal riverwow sweet deal

[cinder wind]

hey if it's just you saying the words "beyonce unreleased single twenty twenty one..." it'll be okay

[clear matrix]

Turns out it's silence.

[teal river]

Inorite?! I would have bought all 20 if I had the funds to spare, lol

[mellow thunder]

@teal river Got to check my local MC

[waxen thistle]

Ah, the Sound of Silence

[teal river]

I'mma connect one of these to the front of my car to pick up license plates so I can create a database of all the cars I ever go behind going forward

I could only afford 2 XD too much other hardware as it is

[waxen thistle]

Thanks JP!

[grand tusk]

Thanks JP! Great pig-of-the-week!

[upbeat coral]

Thank you for your ime JP

[viral sail]

Thanks @haughty quiver

[opaque hearth]

THanks JP !!!

[tropic oxide]

Wow!

[fallow fractal]

shake it like a polaroid picture!

[haughty quiver]

thank you all!

[teal river]

@haughty quiver Danke! I do have a question -- does this have processing onboard, or is it all just about enabling the Pi to have more IO to work with?

[haughty quiver]

all about the IO

[teal river]

Mmmm, that does leave the uses ALL over the map

[haughty quiver]

it probably takes a bit of the lifting off of the Pi thanks to the DAC

[teal river]

Yeah, audio can be tough

[haughty quiver]

but yes, it's a great general purpose board for Pi

[cinder wind]

probably a good board for a Pi hooked up to a 3d printer with OctoPrint

[teal river]

I might use one for a Pip-Boy type device...

[grand tusk]

what it sees it prints?

[mellow thunder]

@haughty quiverHey , unrelated to this project . tried one of your old projects ..Weather Display Matrix. I can't getting working at all with the Matrix Portal, other projects work fine on it... maybe something changed in the code?

[grand tusk]

And we have staroids on the pybadge!!!

[haughty quiver]

@mellow thunder I'll have a look at that, EDIT: I was thinking of something else (I think there was an issue with max_glyphs value)

[grand tusk]

so much purple

[teal river]

Oh! @haughty quiver Didn't you say you had added sounds and things to Staroids, are am I misremembering?

[mellow thunder]

@haughty quiver TY, I was going to try it with the M4 Airlift, but I bet I would get the same result if it's code error

[ebon stratus]

So last week I learned. you don't cut the nubbins off the K switches. LOL

[grand tusk]

Sounds are in the github repo for staroids.

[teal river]

Oh... I may be blind and/or deaf

[ebon stratus]

after fixing some bent pins, the newkeypad is working flawlessly.

[grand tusk]

also enable_sound = True.

[ebon stratus]

sorry, keypad, not keyboard

[teal river]

... I must not have refreshed for 5 days, sounds were added 4 days ago, lol

I derp

[grand tusk]

point_roid=0;point_ship=1

[teal river]

Did a pause option get added?

[grand tusk]

Looks like 'no'.

[haughty quiver]

@mellow thunder I just got the Weather Display Matrix working on the MatrixPortal without any issues, other than needing to add my openweather token to the secrets.py file. I updated it to CircuitPython 7 and used the associated libraries from the Project Bundle.

[mellow thunder]

@haughty quiverHmmm thought I tried it in CP 7, let me check

@haughty quiverYep same thing, blank screen. I know my open weather token is good from a weather MAGTAG project I just did. maybe the aio? I double checked that number also.

[haughty quiver]

can you open up a screen/REPL session and see if there are any error messages?

[mellow thunder]

how do i do that?, never done it, sorry

[haughty quiver]

no problem -- are you using Mu for coding?

[mellow thunder]

yes sir

[haughty quiver]

great. click the button labeled Serial

[mellow thunder]

okay

nothing there

[haughty quiver]

that is where any messages will print. You can try clicking in that serial area and then typing ctrl-d to reload

i see messages like this: Auto-reload is on. Simply save files over USB to run them or enter REPL to disable. code.py output: 255 Getting weather for Los Angeles, US Set icon to None gfx loaded Getting time from internet!

[mellow thunder]

huh, yeah getting nothing

[haughty quiver]

what happens if you type ctrl-c in there twice? This should get you a CircuitPython prompt that looks like:

>>> ```

[mellow thunder]

nada

[haughty quiver]

OK, is there a CIRCUITPY drive showing up on your computer?

[mellow thunder]

yes

can transfer to and from

and load into mu

[haughty quiver]

click the Serial button to close the REPL and then click it a second time to re open it. Then, re-save your code.py to the CIRCUITPY drive from Mu's save icon. Does anything show up in the REPL?

(also, just to be sure, you don't have any other serial terminal program running that could be stealing the connection to the MatrixPortal, do you?)

[mellow thunder]

no only the matrix plugged in

one sec

Auto-reload is on. Simply save files over USB to run them or enter REPL to disable.
code.py output:
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "code.py", line 13, in <module>
File "adafruit_matrixportal/network.py", line 31, in <module>
File "adafruit_portalbase/network.py", line 37, in <module>
File "secrets.py", line 8
SyntaxError: invalid syntax

Code done running.

line 8 is aio user name

[haughty quiver]

OK, this is good, now we can see what's what

[mellow thunder]

indeed, ty

[haughty quiver]

sure thing. seems like there must be some typo in the secrets.py line 8. It should look like this:

'aio_username' : 'name',

also make sure there are commas at the end of all of the lines in that list

[mellow thunder]

success! was missing commas., now how do I change to Chicago?

I am guessing it has something to do with my IO account?

I changed it in the code. got right city now.

[haughty quiver]

Way to go!

[mellow thunder]

@haughty quiver A true heart felt thanks to you for helping me out with this! Been at this for days, in the meantime completed 4 other projects lol. You and everyone at Adafruit are truly what make this community great and thrive!😁

[haughty quiver]

Yay! Happy to help, you're very welcome @mellow thunder

[haughty quiver]

hopefully the REPL will become your new debugging pal, too!

[mellow thunder]

@haughty quiver oh it will become my new favorite tool! Ty ty!

[waxen bough]

?showtimes

[arctic abyss]

Desk of Ladyada - Random hacker times
JP's Product Pick of the Week - 4pm ET Tuesdays
3D Hangouts - 11am ET Wednesdays
Show & Tell - 7:30pm ET Wednesdays
Ask an Engineer - 8pm ET Wednesdays
John Park's Workshop - 4pm ET Thursdays
Deep Dive w/Scott - 5pm ET Fridays

[rocky reef]

3DHangouts Episode #338 LIVE in 30 mins! Emojis, Resin, Wood and Starro #3DPrinting https://www.youtube.com/adafruit/live

[waxen thistle]

Good morning all you wonderful folks!

[hard hollow]

☕️⚡️

[rocky reef]

good morning, evening, afternoon and night folks!

[lavish patrol]

Hello, @rocky reef, @hard hollow and @waxen thistle 👋

[woeful pond]

good morning

[lavish patrol]

[woeful pond]

@hard hollow someone has been Milling. lol

[lavish patrol]

One minute to go...

[viral sail]

Good morning everyone.

[waxen thistle]

Live on twitch, bleeps and bloops are a go.

[halcyon linden]

Good morning all

[waxen thistle]

Welcome back!

[wise iris]

good morning

[upbeat coral]

Hey y'll

[woeful pond]

hello

[lavish patrol]

The usual suspects. 😉

[halcyon linden]

YT not running

[rocky reef]

https://www.adafruit.com/free

[halcyon linden]

YT finnaly started

[rocky reef]

https://www.adafruit.com/jobs

[lavish patrol]

Halloween is in August? 🤔

[waxen thistle]

Still good on Twitch

[lavish patrol]

Lol.

[waxen thistle]

In late June, I saw Halloween candy and Christmas cookies... at Sams Club. It's insane.

[opaque hearth]

Everyday is Halloween 👻

[lavish patrol]

Lol. Last year the supermarkets had Easter eggs and hot cross buns before Christmas...

[waxen thistle]

Which makes you wonder -- to ensure those sort of shelf lives, how much preservatives are put into these treats?

It's a piece of bread made entirely of palm oil!

[lavish patrol]

Hang on... Where's the lawn mower?

[opaque hearth]

?mowtimes

[grand tusk]

Not today it's raining.

[lavish patrol]

Understood. 👍 😄

[vagrant flax]

I'll be trying to make some resin keycaps this weekend based on this guide 😄 I spent last night soldering the UV lamp circuit, it was a lot of fun.

[waxen thistle]

Another excellent project from @split gazelle!

[lavish patrol]

@split gazelle 👍

[rocky reef]

Learn Guide - Resin Keycaps
https://learn.adafruit.com/diy-decorative-resin-keycaps

[split gazelle]

⚡🎛😺🎸

[grand tusk]

I could do that. I have a 2D printer.

[rocky reef]

Learn Guide - Emoji Keypad
https://learn.adafruit.com/neokey-emoji-keyboard/

Kailh Switches -
https://www.adafruit.com/product/4955