i suggest further investigation of ping cheating

[amber oracle]

especially the squad [ai], 2 of them had nearly the same ping (even nearly the same real-time ping-changes) in-game. i noticed that a few days ago for the first time & today again. these guys had pings around 200, so i suggest that one can just join a match with a ping below 150 or below 100. nowadays nearly everybody has a internet connection that should be able to ping below 100.

[uneven shell]

@heavy hull stop cheating

[amber oracle]

right & you forgot to mention wolhunter.

[uneven shell]

in all seriousness, obviously Tundra and Wolf Hunter have the same ping (they live in the same house)

also doki has 200 ping because he lives in south america but plays on north american servers

“all players these days should be a ble to ping below 100” yeah everyone definitely has the same, 274774G internet that you seem to have

[amber oracle]

& because they live in the same house, it isn't possible for them to manipulate their ping??? it is just a suggestion on investigating ping-manipulation.

[uneven shell]

if anything, increased ping is a disadvantage

and my guy, they arent any better at the game because of a different ping

[amber oracle]

i had a few weird matches relating this topic, the last few days. not just the [ai] guys, but also some guests. maybe it wouldn't be bad to keep an eye on that!? if you don't agree ok, then not. increasewd ping isn't necessarily a disadvantage.

just ask google about this issue.

[uneven shell]

Look, people play matches on their nonnative regions all the time, are you saying that they are just abusing ping?

[uneven shell]

”wow, i see my opponent 100 miliseconds later since i have 200 ping, im at such an advantage!”

[amber oracle]

no, i'm not saying that at all, if you read correctly what i wrote. i'm just saying that it seems some players from (non-)native regions are manipulating their ping to take unfair advantage of it.

[uneven shell]

and whats the evidence that it is “manipulation” and not just bad internet?

[amber oracle]

you really should read correctly what i write! "...i'm just saying that it SEEMS..." there doesn't need to be an evidence. i would just like the wb-guys to have an eye on such issues. maybe others made these experiences too, in the last days/weeks!?

[uneven shell]

and how would you be able to tell if it was ping manipulation vs bad internet?

[amber oracle]

i don't know if that's possible, as i am not a game-dev, or something similar. i just wanted that the wb-guys take notice. & that seems to be done by this. so, for me no further discussion necessary. also, if it should be able at all to tell, if a manipulation took place. it's the wb-guys to decide how to react to that, not mine! thank you all for your attention!😉

over & out

[uneven shell]

lol i would suggest to your suggestion to look a little more into how ping works and specifically how to distinguish between “manipulation” and bad internet before making the suggestion

Also it is worth considering that not everyone is as fortunate as you to have less than 100 ping on their home servers as you suggest

[winter flax]

yes, obviously we all live in one house, zinc cooks breakfast, tundra cleans the house and wolf works online

[lyric gull]

💀

[last void]

huh

I hate to be that guy, but I'm having a hard time understanding what you're trying to say. So you're suggesting that the game add a latency limit? I too disagree that everyone can get 100 ping on local servers. In terms of increased ping being a disadvantage or advantage, that depends on the game.

If you play at higher ping long enough, you can get used to playing with higher latency. There's also a difference between having high latency and bad internet (meaning that your ping is high and your connection choppy) and high latency and good internet (you have good wifi, but are playing in NA servers when you live in argentina or whatever. This means that you're not necessarily redbarring, but things still take longer to register because you just live further from the server)

How much higher latency impacts your gameplay experience will vary from game to game. If I played a Source game (cs,tf2) I would have a harder time playing at 150-200 ping because of how interpolation (lag compensation thing) works in that engine. It's very discombobulating to deal with. It is "easier" to play at higher pings in this game for whatever reason

However, that makes it harder to play against somebody who is at 250 ping when you are at 50 since there is a longer delay.

[last void]

are you talking about lag switches?

[small mountain]

I have yet to discover any lag switches that give you the advantage

Do they even exist in WB?

Not to mention beyond GB speed internet can be expensive, and also their location and their signal strength also changes their ping. Some of these things most people can't control, therefore I'm against a latency limit for it would lock alot of users out

[lyric gull]

Imagine doing this for a game like WB 💀

[small mountain]

Especially if your in NA at midnight and say you want to go to the Asia servers to player where the players are but you have more than 250 ping? What happens can you only play with Bots? Because the Latency limit would kick you out or prevent you from joining those servers?

I'm sorry but I'm just against this limit idea

[last void]

Lag switches exist so yes

[small mountain]

O.o

Alrighty

[heavy hull]

This is the funniest thing ever

[heavy hull]

How would I do that. How do I make the distance between my house to the server any less. I can only make my ping larger by using VPN. But if u do think I cheat. I am honored to be a part of my investigation.

[heavy hull]

They prob give I a disadvantage no cap

Sometimes it's tough being the best -technoblade

[tawny meteor]

Being accused of cheating is really the greatest compliment for a gamer

[winter flax]

actually no, i was accused several times of doing some kind of cheating on wb, at first i felt fine, but then i got a message from joja and felt like my life was passing through my eyes.

[heavy hull]

When u realize ur brain is too big for casuals

[heavy hull]

Gj Doki.

[last void]

things still have to be investigated

[winter flax]

💀

[last void]

Let's keep things related to the subject of this thread

[heavy hull]

Ok

[winter flax]

i hate abbreviations

[heavy hull]

Do u want me to stream my game play?

[last void]

I don't fault Nihilist for at least bringing this issue up. it is not often that two good players have the exact same ping. It never hurts to be careful.

Why would I want you to stream your gameplay

[heavy hull]

so u can confirm im not hacking

[small mountain]

Honestly I wouldn't be surprised

[last void]

Nobody said anything about hacking

"ping cheating" or I assume he was trying to describe the use of lag switches is not hacking. That's cheating

[bitter turret]

This suggestion confused me so much. Why is this a suggestion and not just a modmail thing?

[last void]

I think the whole "add a latency limit" thing got bundled with some extra stuff

[winter flax]

same

[small mountain]

Exactly, he has concerns and has the right to be speculative. It's good to have these threads to discuss these potential issues and ideas tbh

[winter flax]

who exactly are the 2 players?

[last void]

Tundra and wolf hunter

[bitter turret]

I knew it.. hackers...

[winter flax]

bruh

[small mountain]

Lol

Tbh if they had the same ling I wouldn't be surprised

[winter flax]

they are brothers, they live in the same house, I think

[small mountain]

*ling

[winter flax]

[small mountain]

*PING

[winter flax]

lol

ling

[last void]

I am aware of that. I know they are not hacking/cheating to the best of my knowledge.

[bitter turret]

Pingling

[heavy hull]

ok what r the signs of ping switching

[small mountain]

Which is why I think that's why they had the same ping, I just didn't want to be the one to say the thing about how they are brothers and live in the same house lol

[winter flax]

nice, so we can leave this suggestion up to here, since if the doubts have already been clarified then I don't see a reason to continue with this right?

[last void]

Continue what

[winter flax]

I didn't know that MysteryTopHat knew about that

[last void]

The "debate" that tunrda and wolf are hacking or the idea of adding a regional latency limit to the game

[winter flax]

who is regional latency limit?

[small mountain]

Idk, I just considered those details personal so that's why I danced around specifically bringing up that fact they are brothers and live together

[last void]

?

Are you asking what a latency limit is?

This suggestion's thread has turned into more of a mess with most of the discussion centering about whether or not certain people are hacking/cheating, with sprinkles of "haha i can't believe you'd think these guys are cheating".

[winter flax]

yes, excuse, the translator

[last void]

A latency limit would mean that once a person's latency (ping) reached a certain number (say 150) enough times they would be kicked

[winter flax]

omg, will this be the end of me?

[bitter turret]

Is that to avoid ping flickers?

[heavy hull]

that is a terrible idea holy. as a NA west player who plays at night, i have to play on ASIA so much

[last void]

What do you mean by ping flicker?

[bitter turret]

Ehm, a device/switch that continously breaks connection very quick (like hardware cheating)

I encountered such thing in the past (which I did report). Haven't seen it happen since. So I thought maybe they solved it that with that limit

[last void]

There is no latency limit in this game

To the best of my knowledge

You won't get kicked from x server for having 300 ping

[small mountain]

I suggest we keep it that way

[last void]

You'd disconnect because you'd lose connection

[small mountain]

For the health of the player base

[last void]

A series of community tf2 servers that I frequent has a 150 ms latency limit. This works really well because playing against high ping players and playing as a high ping player in that game is very unfun. This keeps out people who are too far away and those who lack good enough internet to play the game. It is a great addition and keeps at least the latency issue at a level that everyone can enjoy. This works too because there are alternatives and that community has servers on all major continents in the world.

[bitter turret]

I still might have some video evidence somewhere of a ping flicker. I can show you in DM if I find it, so you know what I mean.

[winter flax]

I say there is not, since I have reached a ping of 800 on servers like australia and one or another ping of 500 in ASIA, I guess there is no limit or the limit is much more than 800

[last void]

That could be one reason. The primary reason that I have seen other game servers have them in place is to keep out people who lack good enough internet/are too far away.

[winter flax]

oh maybe I'm getting confused and am exaggerating the ping

[bitter turret]

I see. Lemme check if I can find those old videos. Its still quite interesting.

[last void]

sounds good

[lost hearth]

Please no!! I like playing in Japan servers 👀

[winter flax]

[lost hearth]

Was the msg rather oki doki or not oki doki?

[winter flax]

a

[small mountain]

Now

[lost hearth]

and @chilly kelp Not only Vertex is cheating
#suggestions-archived message

[winter flax]

👁️ 👁️

[heavy hull]

When u mad cuz bad

Also it's not like knife kills r that rare. Shad0w has like 5k

[flat trail]

Bro don't see. To realize that if 2 people play on the same network, the ping will increase, and also that some people (myself included) have wifi that blows, and I can almost never get ping less than 150.

[lyric gull]

Hahahha

That's funny

[desert ermine]

both of them suffer some ping issues, but I know for a fact that they are not ping cheating

I play on US servers, I should usually get 60 ping, but occasionally get high ping as well, it seems to be an issue with a server along the way between my pc and the game servers

thanks for bringing that to our attention though, if you see anything like this again, it'd be good to record the other player to see what they are doing suspicious

[bleak cobalt]

My guy just drop a suggestion and dipped, wow

[eager lake]

when you can't find a server to play with less than 200 ping

Also how would this benefit the game

[chilly kelp]

Happens often when people realize they posted an unpopular suggestion, and they lack the ability to defend their ideas

Honestly, this must be one of the worst suggestions I’ve seen over the past three years

Australians would never be able to play on any servers, including their own since they get bad ping on it often

[flat trail]

precisely. This user seems to have great wifi and assumes everyone is so privileged

[bleak cobalt]

fr

[uneven shell]

https://tenor.com/view/chika-dance-skill-issue-gif-21760251

this suggestion was literally just a skill issue

[bleak cobalt]

dude complaining about ping as if everyone can have the exact same 10ms ping or sth

[chilly kelp]

fr

[honest wyvern]

If you believe there are users who are playing illegitimately then please report them to @lean void

You'll find that hacking in WB is very difficult to do.

Modmail will allow a direct line of contact for investigation into a user.

[bleak cobalt]

I faced a lag switch guest before, only once.

[rustic lintel]

me with 14ms

Hehe

[bleak cobalt]

me with 510 ms ping

[heavy hull]

its a good thing i wasn't Lucky. then i would be putting this entire thread into my vid fr

[wraith fern]

Not everyone has good internet. People in more rural areas might struggle if you put a 100ms ping limit. And people would never be able to play outside their region.

[bleak cobalt]

yeah

possibly one of the worst suggestions i ever seen yet though

[small mountain]

It's an interesting one

[chilly kelp]

Interesting is a non-point

Take a stand, express an opinion, or elaborate what’s interesting about it

[honest wyvern]

the main issue is the assumption of good internet meaning a ping under 100, when ping is primarily driven by location

there are some players who do not have a server within a 100ms ping range

NZ players have AUS as the closest server and look at 80ms minimum, which very easily tips over the 100ms mark

and that's an example of players with a somewhat close server

[viscid ruin]

ok

higher ping is a curse

in my opinion

because if any australian tries to go into a USA game, the ping will probs be snthn like 400 or 500

and that is SO painful

and makes almost every task a nightmare

[heavy hull]

Then why did u upvote this suggestion

[viscid ruin]

investigating is probably good

but not exactly necessary in this game

[tawny meteor]

Ping is generally only beneficial at levels between 150 and 200. Any higher and it’s useless. Any lower and it’s normal. And even at 150-200ms it doesn’t offer much of a benefit.

[upbeat vector]

Packet loss = “Lag exploitation”

Aka teleportation

You can have packet loss at any ping, not just high ping. Packet loss is an issue with your internet or it is an issue on the server side. It is highly unlikely that you can control your movement let alone exploit it to shoot at players

[rustic lintel]

So… where exactly is asia server?

[upbeat vector]

It's based somewhere in Singapore

[rustic lintel]

Lol no wonder my ping is 14

:))))))

[warm flower]

(Good job)

[lost hearth]

🤟

Your name is an abbreviation of heart beat

[warm flower]

[viscid ruin]

oh i kinda thought that everyone on the server knew that

[lost hearth]

As european, I do not know such japanese abbreviations

[viscid ruin]

oh

bri'ith

bo'l'l wo'er

lol

aus/jpn here

[lost hearth]

German actually

[winter flax]

[uneven shell]

japanese

[winter flax]

I'm going to change my name then, I will no longer be doki, I will be oki.

[bleak cobalt]

doku doku

[chilly kelp]

doku

[viscid ruin]

how bout' mrgorochin 2

[winter flax]

[warm flower]

Oki doki then

[shut sapphire]

[chilly kelp]

I think you just have skill issue

And you misunderstand ping

[viscid ruin]

yes

[flat trail]

Much

[shut sapphire]

fax

[warm flower]

📠

[twin vector]

This is weird how do even “abuse ping”

Where is the USA West server?

[warm flower]

In the west of the USA, probably.