#Reintroduce Temple into the map pool

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

spring path
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wat

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this channel is for suggestions, not map sponsors

gloomy storm
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I love temple

snow hornet
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It's a suggestion to reinstate temple

alpine timber
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Nobody asked but northwest < southwest < pacific < temple < area 15 base < frontier for “big” maps

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  • totally unbiased nonvehicle player
inland shell
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I like the temple map, but I don't really see the need to remove one. Just bring back temple without removing anything.

spring path
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Temple was removed because people wanted Tomb to be back

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well actually, we didn't ask them to remove temple, but they did it anyway

inland shell
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Does there have to be a limit? How much dev work would it take to fix that?

spring path
long spear
frail coyote
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My i disagree with this:
#1: Area 15 base is not unfair. It was one of my best maps since i was a little boy on the game. I was really bad at the game back then. Just goes to show A15 is balanced. There are many places for the hillside team to hide. The plane, hangars, the tubey yellow thing that i still dont understand what it is for.
#2: Cyber Tribute is very much different from regular Tribute. There are very less camping spots since you cannot climb on any of the previous spots.
#3: They cannot keep all the maps due to technical reasons. As stated by @long spear above.
#4: If they where to remove a map, remove Zen Garden. Very laggy, messes with frames bringing me down to the 20s(I am a average 60-80fps on browser). Zen is very easily camped. Even then Zen is not old enough to be thrown away just like that.

To be honest, it really angers me how people say A15 is unbalanced. You must have a lack of skill because i (and many others) survive very well on the map.

leaden mica
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We say it is because there are massive balance concerns there. It doesn't mean you can't have a good round on it.

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The biggest issue with its balance is the presence of vehicles.

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Over my years of play, I've had to slowly step away from voting for the map. It's one that can be fun, but more and more I've found it too frustrating to have to pick up my game because of how easy it can be to enter an inescapable situation.

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It's Tribute with GL all over again, but not as frequent as Tribute was.

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Tribute was considered terrible by many players because of the GL, but it wasn't like you couldn't get good rounds on it.

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Still doesn't mean there was a lack of balance issues though.

weak trellis
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I would LOVE temple to be added back into the game. It is one of my favorite maps. I am unsure why it was removed, but I would love for it to return

humble dagger
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I believe it was removed for a lag issue or something. I think im getting this confused with tomb tho

weak trellis
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Oh Gotcha

young summit
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yes add it back

mortal yoke
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I want temple plus every other map

clever folio
frail coyote
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the only reason i liked temp was because of the lvl 2 heli

inland shell
# frail coyote My i disagree with this: #1: Area 15 base is not unfair. It was one of my best ...

I've seen lots of people say that Area 15 Base is unfair. Problem is, some say it's unfair one way, and others say it's unfair the other way.

Really, it's a map that either team can dominate. When teams are unbalanced or one side doesn't know how to play the map and use their vehicles effectively, the weaker side will get crushed - no matter which side they're on. And it can be even worse of a wipeout than some of the other maps.

I don't think it's a balance issue. I think balance issues in the teams can be amplified by the map. But the map itself is reasonably balanced. I've seen both sides totally dominate.

Attackers can dominate if they use the cars effectively, have some good snipers, and have several people using anti-aircraft (or the other side doesn't make good use of the aircraft). Defenders can dominate if they use the aircraft effectively, have good snipers, and have several people using RPGs to take out armoured cars (or the other side doesn't make good use of the armoured cars). If the teams are balanced, it can be a very close fight.

spring path
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Yep

frail coyote
weak trellis
gloomy storm
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Temple without Vehicles would be nice

frail coyote
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on my honest opinion, i hate maps without vehicles.

spring path
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People kill me with vehicles which is really unfair
; s nerf all the vehicles and buff rpg so they do 10 billion damage and has a splash range of 100m

weak trellis
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😂

alpine timber
inland shell
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I like maps with vehicles.

spring path
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I guess I stay neutral

alpine timber
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i honestly dont like vehicles at all but thats only because i come from “infantry-based” games which makes me incredibly biased lol

spring path
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I have like 50 vehicle kills in total kek_cry

alpine timber
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I probably have less

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;ms

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bruh

spring path
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bbot is not here NotLikeThisCat1

alpine timber
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epix embed fail

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well not exactly but still

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wait no way i have more than 200

spring path
alpine timber
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i swear i never use vehicles

spring path
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maybe you crash ppl with BR car

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wait no

alpine timber
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theyre probably all from before apcs getting nerfed

alpine timber
spring path
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wow you have heli kills

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I have never killed anyone with airborne vehicles

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except myself broker_smile

alpine timber
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wait no way i have heli kills

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airborne vehicles are impossible to play i swear 😔

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probably just a skill issue

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i only use jets as fast transportation

spring path
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I can't fly them properly

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I don't even know how to turn

alpine timber
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lol same

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i never figured out how to shoot bullets from the jets

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🗿

spring path
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oof

alpine timber
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there were no jets in temple right?

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only helis and apcs

inland shell
alpine timber
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ou what

spring path
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hmm same

spring path
alpine timber
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So like i have to change it in the inventory?

spring path
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hm I thought you got no inventory when using a vehicle

alpine timber
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yeah idk

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almost 300 hrs in the game and i dont know how vehicles work coronalol

spring path
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wait you haven't reach 300 hrs yet?
then why do you have more than twice of my total kills Disgust

alpine timber
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idk if its an accurate calculation

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but i just took my kills and divided by kpm

spring path
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hmm okay

alpine timber
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wait how many hours do you have

spring path
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steam says 310

alpine timber
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o

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that 310 might count afk time tho

spring path
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hm

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that makes sense

alpine timber
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Dividing ur kills by kpm says about 143 hours so ig that makes sense

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i need to touch grass NotLikeThisCat1

spring path
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ah okay

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wait that's less than half of 310 Disgust

alpine timber
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Still kinda doesnt make sense tho

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thats like 200 hrs of afk

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yeah

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lol what

spring path
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so what am I doing when I play really

alpine timber
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i am confusioned

spring path
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sadge

inland shell
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Homing missiles for A2A, guns are useful there too. They're also OK against ground vehicles. Rockets against ground vehicles and infantry, although they're kinda weak. Guns are good against ground vehicles, a bit weak against infantry.

clever folio
leaden mica
# inland shell I've seen lots of people say that Area 15 Base is unfair. Problem is, some say ...

No the map itself still provides am imbalance. The APC side has the advantage as a whole. Complaints on imbalance on the APC side are only on the lack of cover to a Heli Lvl-2, as a player can hop in a Heli and single a player out and kill them. It's impossible to take the health out before they take yours, it's impossible to get out of the way as you are in the open. It's a very unfair position to be in for the individual. It's still poor design that a player is able to be singled out like that and be left in an out-of-control situation.

APC side as a whole though maintains a better position. Even in the vehicle triangle of Rock/Paper/Scissors, APCs bully aircraft, aircraft bully tanks, tanks bully APCs. That is their design. On vehicles alone, the APC side has he better vehicles. Other than the slight Heli Lvl-2 benefit on stray players, the aircraft don't perform the best they can on Area 15. Even players I know to be regular pilots never take the jets on Area 15, because it just doesn't work.

APC side has a wider and more open spawn. Players are able to spawn in over a whole dune area. That even following a death to a Heli Lvl-2 at the start, they can easily spawn away from it and resume play. It's too open to effectively trap the team, even if you have snipers in your towers, they can be counter-sniped or air striked.

Heli side spawn is narrower, not as wide, and is filled with structures that don't give much mobility. They provide some cover to sniper fire and APCs that roll in, but provide PLENTY of room for CQC players to run around and camp out in the spawn for long periods of time. The Heli side can enter a deadlock where all APCs are rampaging through the spawn and down the runway, while CQC players run amuck through the spawn and around the runway. This is all while someone has made it into the tower above to shoot below, and snipers are set up on the hangars. You are caged in a LOT quicker and easier on the Heli side.

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If you are able to remove vehicles from the equation, the imbalances pretty much remove themselves.

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But to ignore one of the worst spawn camps in the game aside from the old GL on Tribute is one I cannot let pass by.

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I have been on both the camped and camping sides. It's no fun being unable to do anything as your team is farmed, and it's no fun walking around doing next to nothing because the opposing team just can't do much.

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It's a map I used to like, but over the years hated more and more. Being useless to a Heli Lvl-2 right at the beginning of a match is poor design. Having your team completely trapped in their spawn and dying is poor design.

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When the vehicle update rolled around and made Heli Lvl-2 next to useless, the imbalance was further exemplified. Those helis aren't touching APCs, so all they have on of is fighting players. Surprise, they can't do that now.

The reversion of vehicle stats may open up Heli Lvl-2 to be more viable again. The camp issue has always been there though, despite the vehicle stats.

clever folio
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Essay be like:

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Also can we start making points on why we should add temple again given it has one of the most iconic Easter eggs in the entire game, and you can't say that I said the MOST iconic, I said ONE of the most iconic Easter eggs, so please don't bully me because of that. And tbh I love the parkour you can do in the map.

leaden mica
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I understand the removal of Temple to be temporary

bitter monolith
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temple is POG

leaden mica
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Reintroduce Temple into the map pool

snow hornet
leaden mica
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some may argue brrl's tribute

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or Tribute, a map paying tribute to Dust 2 (a very VERY iconic map)

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or the crash test dummy

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or cosmetics with "SIIB" or loldude on them

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those last two points are very iconic specific to WB and its community

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the temple one is really just a hidden room in comparison to these nods

humble nebula
humble nebula
humble nebula
spring path
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nah in tomb I either get killed by guests or get jumpscared to death by guests

frail coyote
humble nebula
humble nebula
humble nebula
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Actually i shouldn’t complain when i refuse to use anti vehicle weapons such as minigun

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I guess minigun can scare off close heli encounters

frail coyote
humble nebula
snow hornet
clever folio
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Tomb and temple are like a duo in maps, without one, there is no balance.

snow hornet
humble nebula
young summit
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re introduce it

humble nebula
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What are you on about

young summit
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the map

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temple

humble nebula
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I’m not talking about that

young summit
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ik

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im talking about the subject

humble nebula
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But that’s already mentioned in the suggestion

alpine timber
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but the water just makes me despise it

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northwest not really since i can understand why vehicle players would enjoy it

humble nebula
humble nebula
alpine timber
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southwest should be reworked imo

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i feel like the tank vs tank on it is super lame

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its just going around the middle and fighting out in the middle of the open

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or thats actually enjoyable for vehicle people idk NotLikeThisCat1

humble nebula
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yeah it's boring

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who actually enjoys tank duels?

inland shell
# leaden mica No the map itself still provides am imbalance. The APC side has the advantage as...

It seems like half the time you were arguing that the helicopter side is too OP, and then the other half you're arguing that they're too weak.

Which is exactly my point - individual battles on this map can be heavily unbalanced. But that can go both ways. I've seen both sides get squashed. I've also seen some hard-fought close battles.

I don't think the map itself is badly imbalanced. I think it just gives the two different teams very different challenges, and when one team handles its challenge well and the other doesn't, you get a very lopsided battle. I don't think either side is all that much harder to be on, but it is a map where things can go very badly wrong if your team isn't good, no matter which side you're on.

If the defending side makes good use of RPGs, the APCs are pretty easily neutralised and are only good at being anti-aircraft vehicles on the hillside.

If the attacking side makes good use of homing missiles and other anti-air weapons, those helis that you complain about will suffer. I've seen people who are good heli pilots give up on trying to use them because too many people are trying to shoot them out of the sky. Sure, 1v1 the heli beats an infantryman, but I don't actually have a problem with that; 1v1 most vehicles really ought to be able to do that. But with teamwork, or by temporarily hopping into an APC, you can win.

When on attacking side, I try to spawn in next to an APC so I can jump into it if a heli starts pestering me and my health drops too low. Sometimes someone will steal my APC... but if not, it gives me another option.

humble nebula
leaden mica
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It seems like half the time you were arguing that the helicopter side is too OP, and then the other half you're arguing that they're too weak.

I never argued the Heli side is OP. What I argued was that the map is poorly designed for the Heli, allowing for a very unfair situation. The Heli side is not OP.

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If the defending side makes good use of RPGs, the APCs are pretty easily neutralised and are only good at being anti-aircraft vehicles on the hillside.

You mustn't have been in the terrible spawn camp before then. The reason APC side is better is all on the fact you can't juggle anti-vehicle, CQC, and counter-sniping all at once. Even with five RPGs going off, some of those guys are going to be quickly flushed out by CQC players among the spawn, and snipers set up around.

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If the attacking side makes good use of homing missiles and other anti-air weapons, those helis that you complain about will suffer.
Use a Heli Lvl-2. Homing Missiles are a joke, very easy to ignore. The start of round situation I mentioned where you can get a free kill on one person still exists. The only way to escape that is to get lucky with your RPG landing on them, assuming we're in a version where the RPG one shots the Heli rather than does half health.

leaden mica
# inland shell It seems like half the time you were arguing that the helicopter side is too OP,...

Sure, 1v1 the heli beats an infantryman, but I don't actually have a problem with that; 1v1 most vehicles really ought to be able to do that.
This is true. I don't think that should ever be the case. The issue that I and the community complaint around it, is that there is no way to avoid the confrontation to begin with. It is a guaranteed death right from the start of the round. Every other map provides some level of option as to where you can go and how you can tackle a fight. In Area 15, you have a large open spawn with your default spawn being far from the Hangars, and very usually far from an APC. The game puts you into an unfair situation, and fairness is what makes games fun. That's basic game design.

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When on attacking side, I try to spawn in next to an APC so I can jump into it if a heli starts pestering me and my health drops too low. Sometimes someone will steal my APC... but if not, it gives me another option.
Great choice. You can also choose to spawn closer to the hangars. This is impossible at the start of a round with the default spawn though. That's the issue. Once you can choose your spawn, the world's your oyster.

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To reiterate... Heli Lvl-2 does not provide a big advantage to the other side, all it does is provide a very unfair situation at the start of a round to get a free kill. Players also complain about immediate BGMs at the start of a round. It's a similar issue, just less avoidable. This was one of the greatest things about the Heli nerf... it provided a solution (albeit an overall bad one to Helis as a whole) to that one singular fight. Similar to BGMs where once it's used it's over... once you have died, you have the option to spawn where you like and you have a LOT of choice.

The APC side as a whole has the better side. They have better spawn options, the better vehicles in the vehicle triangle, and they have ready access to spawn camp options. I have never once seen an effective spawn camp held on the APC side. That situation is usually a case of snipers mixed with some people running through the open dunes (where the whole spawn can shoot them as opposed to the building on Heli side providing cover), and a couple Heli Lvl-2s in the air. Those spawn camps don't work effectively and don't take too much to dismantle.
This is not to say it is impossible. Every map can have spawn camping. Every map can have imbalance because of the TEAMS... but Area 15 Base still has an imbalance in the map design itself that cannot be ignored.

frail coyote
rare cliff
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Pretty sure regardless of the imbalance or not (Area 15 Base) it's still one of the most popular maps, and I personally like it. Replacing it for a less popular map like Temple is unwise. Same with Cyber Tribute, as it has a completely different play style compared to the original Tribute. This is mainly a problem that can be solved by looking at statistics, which I assumed Joja did so to remove Temple or having a vote to bring it back. I assume Temple was removed to keep the map cycles quick? I see no reason for its removal as I remember it being a decently popular map.

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Vehicles in Area 15 Base had always been widely controversial, as with grenade launchers in Tribute, but it's one of the reasons why people vote for the mode; regardless of the controversy, vehicles are both push and pull factors for the map. There is nothing to fix if nothing's broken.

weak trellis
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@rare cliff, not challenging you, but I'm actually curious cause i dont often play cyber tribute. How is the play style different?

rare cliff
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You cannot climb buildings

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So you need to move a lot more than say Tribute where you can stay on the brown or blue building to get kills

weak trellis
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Ah I see

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I guess I don't USUALLY climb buildings, so I've never noticed that

humble nebula
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cyber tribute is just holding angles if both teams know what they’re doing

alpine timber
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lol in cyber tribute i climb whatever is climbable and not blocked off by a skybox

young summit
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yes

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same

clever folio
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Phun fact, in tribute there are 3 areas where you can die by going above the map, one in the one with the 2 layers, on above the staircase that links the 2 sides of the middle and one at the edge on the city side blue buildings above the wall.

inland shell
# leaden mica > If the defending side makes good use of RPGs, the APCs are pretty easily neutr...

I've been spawn-camped on both sides on Area 15 Base.

As defenders, obviously, you know how it happens. A good CQC player or two can run wild through those buildings, and if the defending team doesn't have someone good at CQC to counter that, they're in trouble.

The attacker's spawn is more open, so spawn camping isn't so much about CQC. It's aircraft (particularly helis), snipers, and people using jets to quickly get into the spawn area. Then it's not CQC as much as mid-range combat, which is a somewhat different skill. This spawn camping doesn't usually last as long, but if the defending side has better snipers and/or people who are better at mid-range combat, the attackers get crushed.

Most maps are symmetrical or reasonably close to it and the challenges faced by the two sides are pretty similar (Tribute isn't symmetrical, but the two sides play roughly similarly, with similar skills required).

Area 15 Base is different, and unique. The map is intentionally set up to create different challenges for the two sides, and it does that quite successfully.

I would be interested in seeing W/L statistics for the two sides.

tulip hawk
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TBH, we might be able to replace cyber tribute. I mean, it is litteraly just tribute.

spring path
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It is not tribute

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Read what Rocket said

inland shell
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Yeah, it's totally different. It looks almost the same, but the fact that you can't camp on top of buildings results in a very different playstyle.

mortal yoke
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Honestly, if any map has to go, Flooded

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It's like Pacific but worse, and I'm not a big fan of Pacific either

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Also

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Atlantic map when

weak trellis
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Yeah, I'm not a fan of either

humble dagger
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Pacific is literally lag central for me

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But flooded is just a ruined version of Pacific. I hate pacific for the fact that you can go onto the island without much of a trace, but then in flooded (I think) you can't go near the volcano

weak trellis
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I just dont like the setup of the map. It doesn't easily allow for any type of playstyle, and makes sniping a pain

leaden mica
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why does a map have to go?

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It's possible Temple was pulled due to some bugs with client collision and server simulation collision. At the time, it was moved out to reduce the download or something for users... but it's not like WB has no space for maps.

Remember that since then, Cologne was added.

snow hornet
sinful pewter
bitter monolith
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I think temple is cooler than tomb honestly

clever folio
clever folio
clever folio
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Wait, I forgot if apc3 is in cologne...

clever folio
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I just love the ones where I just have a broken strat, or it's close up combat with not a lot of space so I can go sicko mode with the sniper smg combo, and troll ppl by killing them instantaneously around the corner with flashbangs XD

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In fact I probably have no1 kills with flashbang...

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Can't wait for autopistol and flashbang to stats page.

weak trellis
tulip hawk
spring path
clever folio
weak trellis
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I don't think so. They were both available at the same time if I remember right.

spring path
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Before tomb was removed for the first time

frail coyote
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sheeeesh, where did all the reactions come from?????

rare cliff
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That is exactly why you don't give reaction perms to non-vets

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But anyways, there's no harm

weak trellis
weak trellis
mortal yoke
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It has been discussed for a long time now

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I also suggested to remove Flooded over Pacific

long kelp
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Good big maps: Moonbase, Remagen
Okay big maps: Dessert, Pacific, Temple, Area 15, Northwest (would all be good with 16x16)
Bad big maps: Southwest (might be good with 16x16), Flooded
-the Flooded layout itself isn't bad, but way too few people are competent enough in their movement and knowledge of the map to navigate it with any kind of competence

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-Southwest has a similar problem. Too many people aren't competent enough to get up the hill.

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Out of those okay maps (as 8x8), I presently prefer Area 15. It's a relatively fun open sniping map like Moonbase and Remagen, but it has more negatives.

inland shell
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I actually like Southwest, but I mostly like to fly jets on that map, or find a place to snipe. It's a pretty good jet map.

Flooded I don't like as much as a jet map, as there's not as much cover - you can be targeted by homing missiles from nearly anywhere on the map, and flying at ground level is only partially effective in avoiding them. That makes it hard to stay alive if anyone on the other team is seriously active with homing missiles; one you can maybe handle, but if two of them target you it's gets really tough. It's also much harder to find a good sniping spot - too many clouds, and too much cover for people moving around the map.

I do think some of those maps would be good as 16v16.

What I would really love to see is the BR map as a 50v50 with a large number of jets, tanks, armoured cars, etc. That would also need a long timer.

snow hornet
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That would have to be an event or something though, I don't think 100 people (or close to it) can be mustered on a regular basis

last quarry
long kelp
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Also, I guess the conclusion of my whole thing is, if I were to swap something out to put Temple back in, it would be Flooded or Southwest.

last quarry
inland shell
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If a map had to be removed, I'd say flooded. But... why remove a map at all?

abstract gulch
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i miss temple

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OHHH

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i remember now

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temple was my old favorite map

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thats what was missing after i left for a year

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pls bring back

inland shell
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Yeah, I think a lot of the downvotes are not because people are hating on temple. It's because the OP also suggested some maps that could be removed to make space for it. People like the existing maps.

So I think it was a poorly-written suggestion if the goal was to get votes, because it became a vote not on re-adding temple, but also on removing another map.

dull parcel
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@clever folio Tbh Temple was a good map, it may come back in the future, but i believe that Area 15 and cyber tribute are not bad maps.

1st of all, cyber tribute is not the same as Tribute, Its a similar map, but u cant do some thing in cyber that you can in Regular tribute, like getting up on the Blue building, or getting up on the middle building in the middle of the ramp path and the ice cream truck path,

2nd of all, Area 15 is not unfair, theres key elements to each side, the Flat side with the bunkers, has helicopters, the moutain side has Apc's, and each side has elements to flank the opposing team, like the sky towers, or the warehouses, Theres key ways to win, on each side its not unfair at all....

lime token
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i just say that because i think if any map needs to leave for a new map it should be Cyber tribute

dull parcel
lime token
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alright yea Cyber is still fun

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like i said tho, i don't really want Cyber gone i just think it should be the one gone if they decide to remove a course

dull parcel
lime token
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i mean i hated temple and was so happy to see it go

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now it has memories but still i prefer tomb

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i hated tomb at one point but because you can get in other teams spawn i like it

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temple in my opinion was just never very good

clever folio
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I like both of them, but tomb a tiny bit more. But temple has the really toxic spots that you can master shortcuts to. for example the one where you normally have to get on top of the "building" and jump to the vines with the war brokers "king" you can actually just parachute onto the side of it from the spawn next to it and wall scale around it to the top. And you can also climb the tree, no flashbang/rpg needed.

dull parcel
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Temples good, I do prefer it over tomb. I kind of miss it. Also, what's this talk of area 15 base? Yes it is unfair if you get choked by apcs, cqc players and snipers, but you can still have a good game, even if you're the only one doing anything. Area 15 is an OK map if you play for fun like I do.

inland shell
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I liked temple.

mortal yoke
wet heart
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I liked it too, really good map

inland shell
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Maybe we should have a new thread that is simply about re-adding the map without suggestions for maps to be removed. (with a brief explanation as to why we need a new thread)

weak trellis
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👍

inland shell
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My thread suggesting this without talking about removing maps has a 13-0 vote ratio in favour. It's dropping down the list, though, because people did all their commenting here...

dull parcel
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I would take away Cyber bc it's really just tribute at night.

clever folio
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Yeah, or at least remove those annoying studs outside the closed spawn so I can snipe properly at the wall without having to line myself up with a gap.

inland shell
alpine timber
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removal of the roofs makes cyber basically a cqc map

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which is cool

inland shell
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CQC with a lot of grenade use.

Tribute, with the roofs, sees some CQC, but it also gets a lot of sniping and medium-range combat.

The maps look very similar, but the way they play out is very different unless you're on Tribute and nobody knows how to use the roofs.

spring path
tulip hawk
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Tribute has these buildings you can climb on top, while in cyber, you can't do that. This makes a bigger impact in gameplay than you might think.

glacial shuttle
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Please put temple back into the game. It was one of my favorite maps and I was very sad when it got taken away.