Deathrun Remade

[late vapor]

It can. It also usually spawns on the walls

[pulsar steppe]

could go from the western blood kelp entrance (closer to the gun)

has tons of uhh, alot of things

quartz, nickel, ruby, diamonds, magnetite, sulphur

[raw heart]

I got it. Ty for the advice, tho

[raw heart]

So, I can't go any further down without a vehicle. What creatures do I need to scan in order to increase my personal crush depth?

[thorn haven]

reaper

[raw heart]

😨

[raw heart]

Didn't really get anything from scanning it 😦

[thorn haven]

I was joking. It's ||River Prowler and Lava Lizard|| but I think you should find that out yourself

||and you need to slice them not scan them||

[neat quest]

Ayy, now that I fixed a mod compatibility softlock, I'm enjoying the hell out of this

[neat quest]

this could technically be considered out of scope/better as a standalone mod, but is it possible to disable the first-time animations on leaving the lifepod?

the poor skyray drowns on top every time

[rich sinew]

I made something for that actually
https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1147

Just make sure the autorepair settings are disabled and you’re good to go

[neat quest]

Oh wow that's perfect. Thanks so much

[neat quest]

I had no idea the randomizer remake was yours too. thank you for the most unforgiving, satisfying survival experience I think I've ever had in a game

[neat quest]

Would it be possible to add patching to the item list for randomizer? (Didn't see a thread, lmk if there's a better place to talk about it)

[rich sinew]

There's no separate thread for it, it tends to be talked about rarely enough that it doesn't clog up #🎮┃mod-discussion too badly. What do you mean adding patching to the item list?

[neat quest]

having it read from additional .csv files so one could be generated for any mod that should be randomized and just dropped in as needed

and ideally with the ability to overwrite existing lines if that's at all possible

I was trying to patch in the copper batteries from DR and thought about it

[rich sinew]

I've had a bit more of a look around nautilus and the game and I think auto-generating something like that might actually be feasible. It probably wouldn't be possible to generate a complete record, but a template with gaps to fill seems doable

It would need a bit of a change to how things work right now though. Not a quick fix

I'm pretty sure people have added modded items to the recipe .csv in the past though. As long as the techtype matches, it should work

[neat quest]

I tried but couldn't get any changes to register without throwing an exception. could be that libreoffice is corrupting the csv though because it loves to corrupt documents

even just deleting the line for the o2 tank killed it so, yeah, maybe corrupted

I dropped the randomizer with DR anyway. kept getting softlocked by weird stuff like the rad suit needing a gas torpedo lol. probably going to do my own CC3 edit instead

[solar shell]

Hey, everyone. I’ve got the blueprints and materials for the Nano Decompression Module, but none of my fabricators, vehicle upgrade stations or modification stations seem to have it as an option. How am I supposed to make it? (I guess I’m asking if there’s a gameplay solution, or if it’s a bug, or I’m just an idiot and missing something obvious.)

[rich sinew]

You can find it at the vehicle upgrade station in your moonpool alongside the other vehicle upgrades. If it doesn't appear, try restarting the game and see if that fixes it.

[solar shell]

That did it, thanks! (Love the mod, by the way, it’s terrific.)

[solar shell]

Hello - I’m curious about one of the Deathrun settings, Creature Aggression. In the tooltip, it says “normal” changes nothing, but the other variants talk about how far or easily you can be seen. Does the “normal” setting turn off all enhanced aggression, or is enhanced aggression built in, and the only options are how easily you’re seen?

[rich sinew]

Normal turns off all enhanced aggression, i.e. it's exactly as it would be in vanilla

[solar shell]

Thanks!

[neat lotus]

does anyone have any shaders that pair nicely w/ this

[neat lotus]

@rich sinew i hope this isnt disturbing you, but how do i get the lithium power cell rceipe 😭

[thorn haven]

I think u have to build a Lithium Battery

[solar shell]

How many additional Reinforced dive suits are there? I’ve built the mark 2, but that only takes me to 1300 m. Is there another?

[late vapor]

Yes, there is

There's 2 after the vanilla reinforced suit

[solar shell]

Thanks!

[brave merlin]

is the recipe for the radiation suit changed at all?

[rich sinew]

It isn't

[brave merlin]

is there any wiki page for deathrun recipes

[rich sinew]

There is not

The closest thing is the RecipeChanges.json in Deathrun’s assets folder. That doesn’t cover custom items’ recipes though

[glass wasp]

I’ve wondered for a while now where are all the spots you can spawn in death run

[pulsar steppe]

you can find and edit them in this file inside DeathrunRemade

[glass wasp]

I only did death run once and I spawned in the grand reef

wasn’t happy to come out of my lifepod and immediately see a Crabsquid

[limpid lotus]

I've decided to revisit the "Deathrun remade" mod. 🙂 I see it's had an update since I last played. 🙂 Let's see how long I can survive at maximum difficulty. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

I tried out the "Barren Trench" start location, which is pretty brutal for the lack of any close source of titanium. Even getting an oxygen tank was a struggle... but I think I can make it work. 🙂

[limpid lotus]

Continuing my hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod. Things are shaky, but I managed to not die so far. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

Continuing my hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod. Hopefully, I'll visit the Aurora today, if I can get all my (metaphorical) ducks in a row. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

Continuing my hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod. With the Aurora dealt with, I think it's time to go deeper. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[rain mountain]

Stop flooding this chat with yo twitch

[rich sinew]

On the contrary, feel free to keep doing it. I’d join in to watch if time zones weren’t a thing.

[limpid lotus]

What time is more convenient for you? I kind of suck at starting when I intend to, but just so I have an idea what time to aim for. 🙂

[rich sinew]

I'm in UTC+1, so you have mostly been starting at 1am for me

[rich sinew]

3 hours earlier than this one would be 10pm, I'd join in for that

[limpid lotus]

Okay, I'll keep that in mind. 🙂 Should I ping you when I start?

[rich sinew]

that would be great actually, yeah

[limpid lotus]

Psst... @rich sinew Continuing my hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[umbral elbow]

@fading oar

[fading oar]

stop

[umbral elbow]

:(

[civic pulsar]

Been catching your vods on YouTube keep it up, dude

[limpid lotus]

Thanks very much! 🙂 I hope to do another stream tomorrow, which may include the active lava zone. In my previous attempt, I died before I got that far, so we'll see if I can do any better this time. 🙂

(By "tomorrow" I mean Saturday) 🙂

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew Continuing my hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod. Featuring my best attempt to avoid getting burned up in lava. 😛 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

I successfully made my way to the alien thermal plant and containment facility. 🙂 I was nervous about sea dragons, but I managed to avoid them. Warpers and lava lizards still gave me trouble, though. 😛

One way or another, the next session will be the last for this run, I think. I'll either win, or die trying. 🙂

[glass wasp]

Try to get them tablets

get into alien land and cure yourself

do warpers leave you alone

[limpid lotus]

Continuing my hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod. Sorry I couldn't do it earlier in the day, @rich sinew. Time got away from me. 😐 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[rich sinew]

Sad to miss it. How'd it go?

[limpid lotus]

I'll answer that in spoiler tags. 🙂 ||I died very suddenly after getting the last piece of kyanite I needed, seconds before I got to safety. At least I cured the Kharaa and saved the world, though. 😛 At the time, I thought it was a Sea Dragon that had clipped through the wall, but reviewing the recording, I think it may have actually been one (or more?) of the lava lizards. Can they really do over a hundred damage through the reinforced dive suit? 😐 In any case, I was very close to finally succeeding this time. 😦 ||

And here's a playlist of the entire run, if anyone wants to check it out. 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5IBRQAZA3znlnzC0Xtfl0pz0oAFQy9jH

[neat quest]

little glitches like that are the main reason I can't bring myself to do hardcore in most games.
it's one thing to die from carelessness or being overly ambitious, but something like that, at that late of a stage in the game? I'd lose my shit

[thorn haven]

I've looked at it and I'm pretty sure you just got hit by 1 or even 2 lava lizard projectiles which usually can be dodged very easily by strafing while swimming in a straight line. The sea dragon does a distinct noise before spitting the fireball (like a spitting noise). In your clip you are dying while he is roaring regularly.
Let us know when your doing the next run! I've been following your deathrun series since season 4 usually skimming through the vods to watch the big moments: aurora, ilz, and deaths

example of the fireball attack

[limpid lotus]

Oof, that's brutal! 😐

And here's a clip of my favourite Sea Dragon fireball moment from my previous Deathrun series. 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/clip/UgkxpY8eTd3PPLXvpgzRB1lU4hHyjXHlaLGT

And yeah, I've gotten in the habit of strafing while I seaglide when dangerous animals are around for that very reason. For whatever reason, that strategy wasn't successful in this case. 😐

[thorn haven]

Try swimming (aiming) more straight while strafing vertical and/or horizontal. When you zickzack like u do in the clip you introduce the possibility of randomly aligning with the projectile‘s path.

[limpid lotus]

The trouble is I didn't know which direction the fireball was going to come from. Any direction I travel in risks randomly aligning with the projectile's path. Changing directions seemed like the way to go. I could be wrong about that, and maybe there is an actual ideal strategy that I'm missing, but this is what kept me alive up to that point.

[umbral elbow]

If you don’t know, pick the least likely (probably straight up or down) and go that way

Because you’re slow and the fireball hitbox is relatively big your first priority is get away from the position you were previously in, the second is to actually properly avoid it

[limpid lotus]

Straight up is generally a no-go in this mod, because of the bends. Straight down would've been away from my destination, and would make it considerably more dangerous, because when I go up again, I would have to do it slowly.

I also didn't know the lava lizards' fireballs would be instantly fatal from full health; at the time, I was trying to avoid the Sea Dragon.

[umbral elbow]

Ah, that’s all fair, haven’t had the chance to watch the clip itself

[limpid lotus]

There could have been safer options for getting kyanite, for all I know. I'd already searched the interior of the alien thermal plant enclosure and seemed to be left with no choice but to go to a more dangerous area. I had considered making an extra trip so I could make a scanning room, so I could zero in on the kyanite faster, but I don't know if that would have ultimately saved me. (Shrug)

[hallow crater]

beat hardcore on mostly max settings and some other mods to make it slightly harder. is this the highest score?

[pulsar steppe]

isnt there a leaderboards system

[hallow crater]

oh where?

i only know of the local personal only one on the title screen

[pulsar steppe]

ohg ok

[rich sinew]

iirc the highest possible is somewhere in the 400k range, I did the math once

[hallow crater]

oh wow

[rich sinew]

only for yourself

[hallow crater]

what gets it so high?

[rich sinew]

doing everything, and doing it fast

[hallow crater]

oh ok

[rich sinew]

300k is definitely a proud milestone to reach though

[pulsar steppe]

oh fuck i thought thats 30k

[hallow crater]

me too

[thorn haven]

And use max murky water setting 😭

[hallow crater]

thats why i only played on mostly max settings

[unreal gyro]

Hi, has anyone seen a bug where start location will not change even after changing the setting and restarting? Or any idea what could cause such a thing?

[silk zodiac]

I assume Deathrun Remade has a different score scaling than the original? Cuz my highest score on the original is ~30k lmao

[rich sinew]

Does it stay the same even if you choose specific starts?

[rich sinew]

It does, yeah. The baseline score you can reach is higher and the multiplier can go a little further too thanks to a few more options. If you put a legacy deathrun run stats file in this mod's folder your old runs will be imported and reflected with the new scoring

[silk zodiac]

Cool! 😄

I've yet to update to LL though because I'm waiting for FCStudios

...it's been about a year longer than I expected

[round belfry]

Does the lifepod randomly have its systems damaged?

[rich sinew]

It starts damaged as usual but there's nothing beyond that

[round belfry]

I see

amazing

[round belfry]

no beacon for me i suppose

[round belfry]

Also I think a reefback died from the aurora explosion and is now on top of my base

[round belfry]

@rich sinew Is the seamoth supposed to cost seeds and samples?

[rich sinew]

sure is

[round belfry]

Gotcha, I'll get to exploring then

[round belfry]

Seamoth after only 7 hours

speedrunning

[pulsar steppe]

well the modded recipes have either 2 modes, they work or they dont, rarely, or ever do they get a different item id than theyre supposed to have

[round belfry]

good to know!

[round belfry]

I'm noticing my base seems to randomly spring leaks even though I have like 70 hull integrity

omfg i found it

It's this little bastard

every time i swim by the tiger plant shoots at my base making holes

I was afraid it was my pet stalkers :(

also this might be a vanilla subnautica question, but is there a reliable way to keep the pacified predators near my base?

I found that I could keep the stalkers entertained with metal, but I took it away after i came back to the entire trench that i live in filled with teeth

like 300 teeth

[silk zodiac]

More teeth means more observatories 😄

[rich sinew]

I can’t really think of anything other than maybe a grav trap? Not sure if that would work

[round belfry]

I actually found a way

they seem to follow my camera drones from my scanner room

like they will follow them to the ends of the earth just so they can steal them

thieving bastards

regardless, it is effective

[hardy jacinth]

This is why I made my mod the you can stop them from taking things https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1590

[pulsar steppe]

they want a mod that makes stalkers pets

[hardy jacinth]

Lol

Infinite teeth I guess

[blissful kestrel]

is it normal for the aurora reaper to be completely silent

only on deathrun aggression

[blissful kestrel]

loool

[thorn haven]

Warped into the shadow realm 💀

[blissful kestrel]

it was genuinely strategic, he knew i wanted the lava lizards scales so he brought it towards him so he could kill me

[blissful kestrel]

deaths seem to randomly disappear quite frequently

its happened to me and my friend where a few of our deaths in the stats just go away

[rich sinew]

It’ll only keep the best score from the same run

So if you die, keep going, and then die again after making it much further into the game the second death can supplant the first one

[blissful kestrel]

we only play on hardcore

they just disappear, i had a run 42 days there where i died to a warper a few days ago and it disappeared just earlier today

maybe it got confused somehow because i died on the same spawn location to the same creature but doesnt rlly make sense

[rich sinew]

...no it just turns out the system that assigns each run a unique ID makes a fatal assumption that breaks as soon as you delete any run once, and from that point will produce duplicate ids that will keep overriding your current scores

[blissful kestrel]

oh

so dont delete runs ever

[umbral elbow]

Until raqzas fixes it, at least

[blissful kestrel]

im not very knowledgeable in modding language does what he said above mean that my runs gonna keep dying from now on since i deleted one run

as in stuff just gonna keep getting overriden

[umbral elbow]

I'd have to check the code itself to be positive but I would assume that it would override runs until you get to the point where there's nothing left to override

So however many runs you've deleted is however many runs you'd have to do before runs stop getting overridden, theoretically

But again I'm sure raqzas is gonna fix it in a bit, I would assume the next deathrun release would fix that

[blissful kestrel]

alright

ive deleted like 4 runs

i hope it doesnt override unbearable heat

that would be sad

[umbral elbow]

If you want to keep them it would likely be best to wait for raqzas to fix it

[blissful kestrel]

its not that important that i need to wait but it would be unfortunate

[umbral elbow]

Its likely that any existing saves aren't safe. Saves would only be safe after several more are made and finished

[blissful kestrel]

i want to move onto max multiplier hardcore after

if thats even possible

[umbral elbow]

Yea but yknow it shouldn't be the hardest bug to fix, and at the very least you can wait for raqzas to wake up and respond

[blissful kestrel]

fair fair

im going to sleep anyway

then i got 9 hours before im home after i wake up

and i dont get home itching to play subnautica so itll be a bit of time anyway

regardless i have screenshots of all the relevant deaths so if anything that'll suffice

[rich sinew]

it will keep overriding your most recent run, yes. Also if you start multiple saves at the same time they probably all have the same id and will override each other in the future

[rich sinew]

I shouldn't debug while tired, the actual issue was that the statistics on how many runs you had started were only saved when you died. So if you started a run, quit, and then resumed playing the next day Deathrun would forget you ever started that run, leading it to reuse that id

I released an update that fixes this, but your existing stats will still be affected as long as the total run counter is too low. To be on the safe side, start a couple of new runs to get the counter up and beyond whatever the highest id of your saved runs in the highscores might be. It's hard to put a number on this since it'll depend on how many times in a row you previously started new runs

[blissful kestrel]

so, just start a bunch of new saves? Do i need to die in them or just starting it is fine

[rich sinew]

just starting. Skip the opening cinematic, wait until you're in the lifepod, then quit back out

[blissful kestrel]

Alright thank you

[blissful kestrel]

just to confirm my existing runs will be fine when updating right

[rich sinew]

they'll be fine, yeah

[rich sinew]

dying during this could override something again, which is why you immediately quit back out, but otherwise it's all good

[limpid lotus]

I've decided to pick up this mod again and attempt another stream with (close to) max difficulty settings. 🙂

I just finished installing the new version, which then complained that I needed to update Nautilus, so I did that too. Hopefully, I have it working properly now. 😛

I just copied the contents of the ZIP files into the corresponding "plugins" folders. I hope that's enough, but I'm seeing some "plugin has missing assembly references" errors show up in the log. Is that normal? 😐

I haven't started the game yet, but at least the Deathrun stats and options are showing up on the menu, so hopefully that's a good sign?

Well, I'm gonna give it a whirl, in any case. @rich sinew, I figure you might be interested. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[rich sinew]

That's a common error for mods missing some dependency and usually means something fails to load. Considering deathrun shows up it might have been some other mod?

[rich sinew]

I sadly didn't have too much time to tune in today, but it looks like you're doing well! Fingers crossed

[limpid lotus]

Hmm... I'm not sure what it would be referring to, then, since the only other mod I used was the Quickslot one, and that one worked fine. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that I just copied the new versions of the mods over the old ones? (Shrug) In any case, the game and mods seemed to work fine.

[limpid lotus]

I haven't died yet. 😛 I'm doing a "Grand Reef" start, so I have to regularly deal with bone sharks around my home base, which is nerve-wracking, but I think I can still pull it off. 🙂

[limpid lotus]

Starting another stream, @rich sinew. Sorry I didn't get started as early this time. 😐 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew, you're probably asleep, but I'm pinging you anyway. 😛 Doing another strm. https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew, stream time! 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew Starting a Deathrun stream now. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[winged shale]

My sinking lifepod got caught up on the back of a reefback on its way to the ocean floor 😆 . Free early-game copper and silver!

[limpid lotus]

Oh? 🙂 Did it continue sinking after the reefback moved on, or did you just get to spend the game, riding on a reefback? 🙂

(Having a moving lifepod could make for an interesting challenge in itself) 😛

Also, I made a playlist for my latest Deathrun video series. The whole thing is here. 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5IBRQAZA3znwSp32T-sg6993fnMHwuiA

[winged shale]

It kept sinking after the reefback moved on. Not sure if it ended up in the expected location though, it might have been moved a bit. I'll have to start another run at Jellyshroom and see where it normally lands.

[winged shale]

Ok, started another run with the "Jellyshroom cave" start location, and I sank to the same spot, so it looks like the reefback didn't move the pod while it was sinking, just caused it to pause for a bit on its way down.

[winged shale]

I don't know if there are any plans to make further updates to Deathrun Remade, but a suggestion: exclude crashfish from the increased aggression distance the mod applies to hostile fauna. They just self-destruct when you're miles away, and leave their cave sulphur unguarded, so the increased aggression distance actually makes them easier.

[blissful kestrel]

it'd be cool if boomerangs retained their nitrogen cleansing properties when cooked/cured so the mechanic actually has a use other than ''oh a boomerang how convenient i will grab and use this to get up like 5 seconds faster''

[rich sinew]

even a rotten boomerang still reduces nitrogen by the same amount

[blissful kestrel]

i know that but theres the obvious downside of it being rotten and horrible for your hunger and thirst

i guess boomerangs just dont have an effect nearly as important as bladderfish so i never found myself having a reason to carry a raw bladderfish in my inventory

wait read that wrong

they actually still give nitrogen when cooked? i swear i tested it and it didnt work, i might've done something wrong

[rich sinew]

not when cooked, no. The hunger/thirst downside prevents you from hoarding nitrogen-purging items in the early game, and later on once you have a base first aid kits are readily available

[meager pecan]

Could the nitrogen level be a new circle connected with the rest of the hud in the bottom left? I think it would look better but that's just my opinion.

[rich sinew]

I tried that originally but found it tedious. With the nitrogen levels and especially the current safe depth right next to the current depth you don't have to go looking across the entire screen all the time. It feels better when it's all in one place

[thorn haven]

[blissful kestrel]

deaths thus far

there was a ~45 days warper one with 100k points that got deleted because bug

[bleak plover]

is 1.0.3 still the latest version of this mod?

ah nvm found a link to the github

im happy i looked for updates since theres some really nice fixes in here

[plain junco]

Does anyone have recommendations for other mods that pair well with deathrun?

[dusty sapphire]

I got this many deaths on my first day

[thorn haven]

randomised blueprints

[languid crater]

Hi there.

Deathrun Remade is awesome - that's how I described my experience on the Steam SN discussion. I had a great time with the two runs I did one year ago and last week, thanks for the fantastic mod.

I just did few checks on the score handler logic against my effective scores, and I found a few inconsistencies. In case that is interesting: Shall I wrap up my observations in an issue on github, or do you prefer to discuss here first?

Cheers and keep up the great work 🙂

[rich sinew]

Hey thanks. Either works, but I find discord easier to have a conversation on

[languid crater]

Many thanks for your prompt reply, Razqas. Great to discuss here, so I can better understand the intended logic and resolve likely misunderstandings on my end 😉

When I recalculated my base and bonus scores, these were my key observations:

1. The RunStatsUI displays scores that are missing the scoreBonus part.
2. The score summands for faster victory times and for longer survival times are not consistent.
3. The NoVehicleChallengeBonus may result in unintended challenge rewards and double dips.

I cover the technical details below to my best understanding with ~~links ~~ (EDIT, apparently not allowed) references to your repo. I hope it is not too much detail for this place.

1. The RunStatsUI displays scores that are missing the scoreBonus part.

To my understanding, the scoreTotal as logged in the DeathrunStats.sav takes the following form:
ScoreHandler.cs#L126
float total = (stats.scoreBase * stats.scoreMult) + stats.scoreBonus;
Here, the scoreMult reflects your difficulty settings, the scoreBase includes all gradual progression elements, while the scoreBonus is applied upon victory, for bonus elements like fast completion, hardcore mode and all challenge settings. There is also a reduction factor for deaths, which is usually not applicable.

However, the scores displayed in the rows of the Deathrun Stats UI appear to reflect only the baseScore and multiplier:
RunStatsRow.cs#L60
score.text = $"{Stats.scoreBase * Stats.scoreMult:F0}";

I am not sure what convention is intended as a true final score, but this seems confusing for any rows of completed runs.

2. The score summands for faster victory times and for longer survival times are not consistent.

Contrary to my profile image, I am really not a speed runner, so this is rather of academic interest to me.
I see two competing time elements of the score. Longer survival times give diminishing returns on a logarithmic scale:
ScoreHandler.cs#L143-L144

            float timeScore = adjustedHours * TimeScoreBase;```
This adds a scoreBase of 8k points at 15h, nearly 7k at 10h, 6k at 7h, or roughly 5k at 5h time, which is then scaled with the scoreMult.
Fast completion times, however, add to the ScoreBonus, which does not depend on the difficulty settings.
The victory bonus decreases linearly from 20k to 10k for times between 5h and 10h (and remains constant beyond that interval).
As a result, most of the speed bonus is wiped out by a loss of survival time, unless the scoreMult is very low. 
E.g. if your scoreMult is anywhere between 2.2 and 6.1, the combined survival and victory score takes a maximum somewhere between 5h and 10h, which is likely not intended.
For the highest difficulties, it seems speed is never rewarded.

I guess the plan was to make faster victories always rewarding, regardless of the scoreMult. One way to get there could be a redesign of the survival bonus that reaches a fixed maximum after 5 hours. Which implies that super long runs no longer benefit from a time bonus.
Other options could be careful tuning of the VictoryScore parameters or a uniform rule for applying scoreMult (which would be quite a rough change, though).

3. The NoVehicleChallengeBonus may result in unintended challenge rewards and double dips.

There is an offset applied to the scoreBase that is related to the no vehicle challenge.
ScoreHandler.cs#L109-L111

            // Offset vehicle achievements for no vehicle runs.
            if (stats.victory && !stats.achievements.IsUnlocked(RunAchievements.AllVehicles))
                stats.scoreBase += GetNoVehicleChallengeBonus();

The ScoreBase this adds is equivalent to the achievements for the three vehicles, plus a major challenge bonus.
I am not sure how the AllVehicles flag is meant to work, but the condition here seems to trigger when one of the vehicles was not unlocked before victory.
I observed this summand on my older run, where the no vehicle challenge was not applied, and where I skipped the Exosuit. Might have been a bug from version changes in my save slot, though.
But even if the condition triggers only with the nv challenge, it still seems to have two double dips:
First, the 2k points for the challenge are applied to both, scoreBonus and ScoreBase, e.g. 14k points instead of 2k points at scoreMult 6.0.
Second, I suspect you could double the bonus on one or two vehicles crafted with hatching enzymes, although I did not test this.
I guess the purpose of this offset rule was to eliminate the incentive for doing exactly that.
I am not sure if my interpretations are correct, but it seems the offset was applied in both of my runs, with and without the nv challenge.

[rich sinew]

So first off, thanks for the incredible detail here. You've really done a deep dive.

1. Is a genuine bug. Looking through git blame it seems that at the time I wrote the code for the UI the RunStats struct did not yet have a scoreTotal field, and then I forgot to update that after I gave the scoring system another pass. The intention here is obviously that it should be displaying the final total, bonuses included.

2. Good find. The main issue here is that the survival bonus scores with mult, while the speed bonus does not. The intent with not making victory score part of the multiplier was to make it less dominant in the scoring, so that everything else you did would have more space to breathe. Since a faster run should always reach a higher score than an equivalent run that was slower, I think the solution here would be to include speed in the base score while capping survival time at some fraction of the maximum bonus for speed. This would ensure that something like a 200h run cannot outstrip a 5h one.

3. The AllVehicles flag works by using bitwise comparison against the flags which represent your achievements. I'm realising now it checks for the inverse of whether you have all of them rather than having none, so you'll always get the bonus if you skipped even one vehicle. This does mean that you're right, you could complete the challenge and then craft cyclops and exosuit with enzymes for a double dip. The intent was to have a system that doesn't take away the no vehicle bonus if you craft them with enzymes (nor gives you a second bonus for it), but clearly that backfired.
   The 2k bonus applying to both base and bonus is intended, since this is a challenge that's a fair bit more difficult than the rest. It seems only fair.

[rich sinew]

Here's my idea for a new formula for scoring speed vs survival:

• As before, speed bonus remains full until 5h (10k points) and linearly decreases until 15h (1000 points). The bonus now benefits from the difficulty multiplier.
• Survival time bonus still grows in log2, but only awards 1000 points per log2 + 1 hours and is capped at 50% of the maximum speed bonus. In practice this means it reaches 5000 after 31 hours. Because a winning run benefits from both speed and survival time, this means that:
  • At 5h, 10k + 2.58k = 12.5k bonus
  • At 10h, 5.5k + 3.45k = 8.95k
  • At 15h, 1k + 4k = 5k
  • At 23h, 0 + 4.52k = 4.52k
  • At 31h, 5k.
• There is never a point where hitting the "speed zone" leads to a lower score. The lack of full survival bonus between 16 and 32h is small enough that it can be compensated for with an achievement or extra depth reached.
  Notably this does reduce the points given for time overall and would reduce the scores of existing runs by up to ~30-40k for extreme cases of very long runs with high difficulty modifiers. In my book this is a desirable outcome, since with the current calculation survival time is a very hefty factor in determining the final score. I'm curious what you think of this.

[languid crater]

Hey, thanks for the detailed, clear and super constructive responses, Raqzas! Great to see my observations are of some use and can induce a vivid exchange of ideas 🙂

1. All right, so that's a low hanging fruit from a coding and design perspective. Though, it can be perceived as a big change by players who only ever looked at the menu and never into the sav file. Which means a fix could be an opportunity to introduce other score changes, as the scoring visibly changes anyway. That can be a tricky situation for a popular project that already has a good community of active players. I don't think it will ever be a problem, because the scoring already evolved so much w.r.t. the legacy system from the original Deathrun. What do you guys think?

[languid crater]

2. Fully agree with your explanation. I see that your suggestion could work just fine, as the victory speed (but not the 10k flat part, right?) would scale with scoreMult. The survival time rule would be relatively complex. Do you want to keep the log scale if you cap that part anyway? Though, the complexity there is mostly hidden to the user anyway, so totally up to you.

3. All right, then that will be a nice fix at some point. I guess the challenge will need to be checked when (not) applying the vehicle achievements. And for defining the magnitude of the challenge score, a separate parameter may be useful, much like the HardcoreBonus. Whether you apply the mult is up to you, just mult+1 seemed a bit strange.

Side note: In a wider perspective of simplified scoring variants, you may want to look into the possibility of applying the scoreMult to (ScoreBase+ScoreBonus). I don't say it's wise to do that, but it may be a route to something different and more transparent.

[rich sinew]

I am a bit wary of "changing people's scores" in that way, yeah, but I think explaining that it's the result of a bugfix will make it more palatable. It's absolutely the best time for a few more tweaks to the system

[rich sinew]

I want to keep the log scale primarily because of runs that fail. That way, runs that die early get access to a significant score improvement without "doing much", but rather just by surviving the early game. It's a reward for early on and the log scale ensures that the score gained from the later stages of the game is focused more on things you actively do, like exploring

[rich sinew]

I was actually thinking the same. A vegan challenge done with a high multiplier is more difficult to complete than one done with every other setting set to default, but right now you get the same reward for both. With high multipliers, the challenge rewards even become kind of insignificant. The scoring system is like this because initially I wanted to keep changes to the original low, but it's moved away far enough anyway. It makes much more sense for the bonuses to benefit from the multiplier, and now is the perfect time to make that change

[languid crater]

Thanks again for your responses, great to have this conversation

[languid crater]

I'm absolutely with you about the significance of diminishing returns for shorter survival times. Whether that's a smooth function with a cap or something step-wise really does not matter, and your approach is of course closest to what you had before.

[languid crater]

That's cool. One can always argue about how different challenges and settings interfere with each other in terms of overall difficulty. But I also think it gets more intuitive to explain how the multiplier works if it just applies to your overall score. Though, it is quite a change that will need some more thought on the calibration. And if a challenge like vegan is relevant across all or early stages of a run, it might also work as a difficulty setting instead. Also, we should keep in mind that with this new approach, it will be less rewarding to ramp up difficulty settings without adding challenges and vice versa. Which I think is a good thing.

[rich sinew]

It makes challenges more valuable overall, which is a good thing since as of now they don't actually contribute that much. Right now, restricting yourself to only fish with otherwise default settings you can expect to hit around 100k in scores from base+mult and then you get a measly 2k bonus from the challenge.

[languid crater]

Yeah, 10k points from 5 major challenges is really not much compared to scores around 300k points 🙂

[rich sinew]

I don't entirely agree that ramping up the difficulty without challenges is less rewarding. The base*mult scoring is untouched, so if you previously did not care for challenges then this change will not change much. For someone going for the highest possible score though this will absolutely force them down the challenge path

[rich sinew]

Yeah. With a 6x mult these challenges would then add 12k-60k extra points on top of that, which is much more tangible

[languid crater]

I meant less rewarding than balancing the two in the new system. Not less rewarding compared to the old system. All good.

[rich sinew]

I'm not sure what you mean

[languid crater]

If you want to optimize the product of two factors, then raising one factor (e.g. only the mult) is less rewarding than raising both. So far, this is the multiplier and anything in your scoreBase. With the proposed change, there is an incentive to raise difficulty settings and challenges equally. Which is just a terribly complicated way to rephrase what you already concluded anyway.

[rich sinew]

Ahh, right. You're not wrong, although I'd point out that the existing base score on a winning run should reach around 40-50k, and then challenges let you bump that to 60k. They would have an impact for sure, but first and foremost it's raising difficulty that would see the biggest improvement in scores.

[languid crater]

That's a good way to put it into perspective. As multipliers in the range of 4 to 6 are well comparable. From your reasoning, I take it that a rule change might work all right without much tweaking of the challenge bonuses. That's nice 🙂

[languid crater]

Just saw you implemented and committed all the discussed changes already the same day - absolute legend 🚀

Looks all great to me, saw just a tiny detail here and there:

• ScoreHandler.cs#L142-L143
  float speedMult = 1f - Mathf.Clamp01((hours - SpeedGraceHours) / SpeedMaxHours);
  This speed bonus ends after 5h+15h = 20h, either convention is fine.
  speedScore = speedMult * (SpeedBonus - MinSpeedBonus) + MinSpeedBonus;
  I have not understood why we apply a minSpeedBonus, I guess speed bonus 0 would also be okay (since we still have a separate victory bonus) .

• ScoreHandler.cs#L168 - here you still have a comment about double dips from the no-vehicle fix, and with the scoring changes, you removed the BigBonus from the GetNoVehicleChallengeOffset. Seems perfect to me, just the comment is no longer needed.

[rich sinew]

You're on top of things!

I need to go over the math again🙃

I put in a minimum speed bonus of 1000 so that the math always works out in favour of the speed bonus. If it goes down to zero, you reach a point towards the end where it would be more optimal to wait an extra hour rather than finishing faster. By having the minimum bonus be 1000 you're guaranteed to benefit whenever you hit the speed zone, no matter how narrowly

[languid crater]

Ah, that was the idea. I understood the MinSpeedBonus is applied always, no matter how long the victory takes (as speedMult is clamped to 0). Though, I don't think it is a problem that the (variable) speed bonus becomes marginal when the time is very close to the SpeedMaxHours. (If you wanted to be super strict with the "speed beats survival" philosophy, you could pick the same maximum time on speed and survival. Or you may even not apply survival bonus for victories, making the two things mutually exclusive? There are many options. But I would say anything that gives reasonable results for realistic times is fine.)

[rich sinew]

v1.1.0 update

• Add config presets. Presets are loaded from the DeathrunRemade/Assets/Presets folder and can be created and shared by users.
• Add more localisation support.
• Add vanilla (unchanged) start location.
• Fix nitrogen in creative mode.
• Fix several bugs related to scoring. This causes scores to be calculated differently now.
• Rebalance speed and survival score bonuses to be more in line with their original intent where faster is better.
  • Since the score bugfixes cause scores to change anyway, now is a good time.
• Rebalance all flat score bonuses to benefit from the difficulty multiplier. This means e.g. No Vehicle Challenge will now give even more points if done at a higher difficulty.

https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1495

[languid crater]

That's a great set of new features besides the scoring updates, thank you!
The presets like "Default" or "Max Difficulty" are super convenient (detail: The label shows up as dr_preset_label).

[rich sinew]

Ah hell. Trying to localise that menu is a mess. The tooltip is mistakenly taking the config file description too

[bright willow]

is the photosynthesis tank giving effectively infinite oxygen intended?
i know its not incredibly op given that all it really does is just saves time constantly resurfacing, but since the death fadeout takes 9 seconds and the tank gives oxygen back during that window, it never actually completes the death animation. so an active photosynthesis tank will just perpetually edge the death screen. and i presume the heat tank would also give the same effect once i make one

a short clip showcasing the effect. i found out about it because i got lost in the wreck, but oddly never died

[rich sinew]

It cancelling the death animation wasn't quite intended, it's a side effect of how the oxygen generation works. But I don't think it's too strong, since it only works during certain times of day and only while reasonably close to the surface. Mainly it cuts down on the tedium of having to make slow surface trips with the bends. The chemosynthesis tank can technically do the same, but then you're stuck next to whatever heat source you found.

[languid crater]

And there you go, releasing the updates in no time - great stuff 🙂

[languid crater]

Ah, that's a good catch. So essentially, the photo/chemo tanks are also effective under mediocre conditions, when the refresh ticks are small, but still nonzero. I agree it does not break the balance, but it's an interesting finding.

[languid crater]

I am glad you found a solution for those rules that works and that you like. If you ever feel like coming back to discussions about smooth functions and the like, let me know.

And another topic: I have a suggestion for a challenge option of high difficulty, that could provide quite a different experience than the no vehicle run - in case that sounds interesting to discuss.

[rich sinew]

I'll keep it in mind for sure

[rich sinew]

I'm all ears!

[languid crater]

The runners here certainly remember the time when the **Pacifist **challenge strictly limited the personal crush depth to 800m. The bug was not entirely game-breaking, but it was nontrivial and tough to reach the end game zones. My suggestion is to bring back this madness with a new challenge, Lava Rush (no Modification Station).

For those who never tried this, I wrap the core idea in a spoiler tag: ||Diving below your personal crush depth kills you quite quickly and reliably. A Prawn with grappling arms, however, can reach the interior of the lava castle before it gets crushed. Though, the timing is tight, since you cannot exit for repairs.||
If you like to test the rush with console commands, you can start a new game, ||jump to the lost river teleport using goto, create your exosuit with grappling arm modules and power cells there using item, and then save your test game before reaching one of the entrances to the inactive lava zone.||
This is probably easy for the speed runners out there, but for a casual like myself, it takes a few attempts, even if you have a rough idea where you are going.

[languid crater]

Restrictions and consequences of the suggested Lava Rush challenge:

• As we limit the crush depth via the modstation, advanced tanks and fins get locked as well.
• This makes vehicles more relevant in the mid game and required for the end game.
• Thus the No Vehicle challenges is not compatible, and the menu selections should reflect that.
• If there is ever a setting or challenge to disable portals, that would also be incompatible.
• The filter pump challenge becomes ~~much ~~more tedious, which may require more testing (No problem).
• Figuring out how to reach the lava zones is part of the fun, but may leave players clueless.
• The challenge may be overly difficult for runners who play in hardcore mode without backing up their saves.
• It would be nice to disable crush damage in the primary containment.
• Else, we could lock the modstation behind a blue tablet or ion battery.

Thus, the challenge would need a good name and tool tip in the settings menu. Maybe it could go into an option for "Advanced challenges", where you can select between "None", "No Vehicle Challenge" and this.

Extra thought: The same option could also be a place for a "No Vehicles and Portals" challenge. Preventing the use of the alien arches would be a minor dose of tedium under normal conditions, but when paired with the no vehicle challenge, it would require more preparations for the end game sections.

[rich sinew]

It's an interesting idea for sure. I like how despite the name it's not just about the endgame, not having a workbench also limits oxygen and survival via tanks, suits and heatknife everywhere else from the midgame onwards.

[languid crater]

Absolutely, plus the MK2/3 on the vehicles. Concerning a possible name and tool tip for the challenge, I am totally open, really. The lava rush part is just the big reality check on this idea. Not sure how many players even ever tried this, so it may be too difficult and too unconventional.

[languid crater]

For those who want to get an idea of the time pressure without play testing the lava rush, here is a low res recording. Hope the quality is not too bad to see anything 🙂

[lapis osprey]

Managed to finish a hardest settings run in 4:36. 14 days. Has anyone done better?

[rich sinew]

I sure haven't! That's a crazy run

I've published v1.1.3, which runs on the most recent Subnautica update. To run it, be sure to reinstall BepInEx and install the latest Nautilus update.
https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1495

[lapis osprey]

Thanks alot, @rich sinew for updating the 3 mods so speedily.

[thorn haven]

with murky water?

[lapis osprey]

Yes, all settings to their most difficult and all challenges on their most difficult.

Hardcore also, of course

31 attempts to get to that time

[thorn haven]

you should post score instead of time, it factors in difficult settings and time.

[lapis osprey]

Will tonight

I was going for time, though and not score

[languid crater]

Sounds like a totally amazing time. Do you have plans to publish video sections of the run?

[lapis osprey]

I did not record it, but I can record next time I do that again. Currently I'm enjoying Randomiser too much

[languid crater]

Also, 4h36m is below the limit where faster times result in no increase of the score, so that may be another point for revisiting the score handling rules, which have seen plenty of changes already (also due to my sort of excessive feedback on rule details :))

[lapis osprey]

A bit burned out on Deathrun speedruns

Yeah, I was surprised at the little increase in score between the two fastest runs

[languid crater]

Oh, that is relatable. I was just wondering if you had any major skips compared to the initial estimate of a 5h minimal time. Maybe that had in mind that a runner would attempt to collect all scoring achievements. Not a runner myself, my times are always... relaxed.

Oh, and from your perspective as a skilled runner, what do you think of the proposed challenge that disables the modding station (lava rush idea above)?

[lapis osprey]

I was playing minimalistic, so skipped most everything not necessary, except I did fix the reactor and made the filter chip

Just for the extra two slots a pipe and pump takes up mostly

I think it would be fun to try

[languid crater]

I tend to skip the filter, but the radiation fix really helps with easy energy management. Though with your approach, you are probably done with the run even before the surface radiation has completely dissipated XD

[lapis osprey]

It dissipated about just before I went into the lost river. The extra energy is certainly important to get the time down yes

I got most of the rocket ingredients made before going down

[neat quest]

randomizer + casual deathrun is the way to go

[thorn haven]

fr Imo It should be an optional part of Deathrun to increase score

[rich sinew]

it is though? You can just not play in hardcore and keep going if you die

[thorn haven]

Me, I was commenting on the randomizer+deathrun part. Not casual, Never casual.
Having to get the reinforced divesuit from a dune or mountain wreck with jacked up creature agression would be a movie.

[lapis osprey]

Well, yeah, I'm not doing straight-up randomiser. I do have Deathrun running too. Without radiation and most of the challenges. Only ones are diet and pump not near aurora

Have to choose pescatarian as lots of bladder fish need to be eaten

[lapis osprey]

Throw in UnknownName and ×3 multiplier on recipes, this becomes a nightmare. I've gone further and added land seeds and fruits and deathrun items to the recipeinformation

Have yet to succeed at such a run

[neat quest]

yeah that's what I meant by casual. all the hard stuff but without caring whether the game decides it's time to die

[lavish python]

How much difficulty would a "no Stasis Rifle" option be, do you think?

[lapis osprey]

I mean, that is not really a restriction that the author needs to add, you can just restrict yourself. Same with the no modifications station suggestion. It is not too difficult, my fastest times had no Stasis Rifle

If you think it should affect score, then yes Raqzas will need to add it

[lavish python]

Well, I'm not the brightest person out there.

[languid crater]

I never cared about the stasis rifle in Deathrun, as outrunning predators seemed to work reliably well enough. Maybe it is a common safeguard for players who want to minimize risks in hardcore mode? Personally, I don't see it as a difficulty modifier.

No modification station implies no crush depth upgrades below 900m at all, so it would have a somewhat dramatic effect. But yeah, the details are all outlined above.

[lapis osprey]

I certianly think that no mod station has more merit

[lapis osprey]

It is now the 2nd run in a row a reaper double taps me on 2025 and Aggression and damage set to Kharaa. Wonder whether something has changed in this regard with either the game's code or Deathrun Remade's? Anyone else experienced this?

And I'm tired of it coming through the mountain. Can that terrain not be patched?

Maybe I should try my hand at it

[rich sinew]

I'm not aware of any changes the game made to creatures, and the mod changes are purely some updated references

[rich sinew]

The devs intentionally disable terrain collisions after a certain distance to save on performance. It's something like 30m iirc, super short. This mod extends it https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1140

[lapis osprey]

Doesn't help when the collision mesh is full of holes

[hardy jacinth]

Solid terrain?

Does that help with that

[lapis osprey]

Not at all

[hardy jacinth]

O o

[thorn haven]

u_U

[limpid lotus]

It's been a while for me, but I see there's a new version of the "Deathrun remade" mod. I'm gonna give it a try. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

(I haven't played since January, apparently)

@rich sinew I figure you might be interested. 🙂

[storm badge]

Where is this new version? Because the version I just now downloaded from the Nexus page breaks my game over its knee

[lapis osprey]

https://www.nexusmods.com/subnautica/mods/1495

[storm badge]

Which is the same page I was just on, okay! Something weird is going on

[lapis osprey]

Do you have the latest Tobey's BepInEx and Nautilus?

[storm badge]

Pretty sure I do but I'll make absolutely sure

New download of Tobey's pack installed, new download of Nautilus installed, new download of Deathrun... Perpetual loading screen, same as before

[lapis osprey]

Do you have other mods installed?

[storm badge]

yes

[lapis osprey]

Have they all been updated for 2025?

[storm badge]

Bit of a silly question really... The odds of anyone on this server answering "no" to the question "Do you have other mods installed" is pretty close to zero.

And I am unsure. Probably not. I'm still working my way through the logs to figure out what works and what doesn't.

This points the immediate finger pretty firmly at Deathrun though: [Error : Unity Log] NullReferenceException: Object reference not set to an instance of an object Stack trace: DeathrunRemade.Patches.EscapePodPatcher.SinkNewbornPod (EscapePod __instance) (at <197d2a72b48148a79b2afda8e9e41ea8>:0) (wrapper dynamic-method) EscapePod.DMD<EscapePod::StopIntroCinematic>(EscapePod,bool) MainGameController+<StartGame>d__6.MoveNext () (at <df60b3a160a540f493f66f56a66f0e8c>:0) SystemExtensions.SafeMoveNext (System.Collections.IEnumerator coroutine) (at <f841581f63d54f5ca96e72fa08d3a0bf>:0) UnityEngine.Debug:LogException(Exception) SystemExtensions:SafeMoveNext(IEnumerator) SystemExtensions:SafeMoveNext(IEnumerator, String) UWE.PumpCoroutineStateMachine:MoveNext() PooledStateMachine`1:MoveNext() UnityEngine.SetupCoroutine:InvokeMoveNext(IEnumerator, IntPtr)

...okay. So I looked at the code for that method in ILSpy, and based on that I went into the options menu and changed a couple of Deathrun settings... No more infinite loading screen.

Meaning I think this is the culprit: bool sinkLifepod = SaveData.Main.Config.SinkLifepod; For some reason the Config wasn't being initialised properly, leading to the NRE.

And for some reason that exception, despite being in a postfix, broke everything.

[rich sinew]

if that config fails to load it's likely the entire run is scuffed

though I really don't understand why this would happen

is this a first load or on trying new saves repeatedly?

[storm badge]

This was when I went to make a new Creative mode game

[rich sinew]

oh that might do it

the mod isn't made for creative mode at all

[storm badge]

Sure, I get that; Creative is useful for testing other shit though.

[rich sinew]

that's fair

[storm badge]

it's usually easier to just start a Creative game than to disable Deathrun, restart the game, and then start a Creative game.

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew, Continuing my Hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod with (close to) max difficulty. 🙂 Having a hungry leviathan so near my base is nerve-wracking, but I'm still alive so far. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew, Continuing my Hardcore run of the "Deathrun remade" mod with (close to) max difficulty. 🙂 With the Aurora done with, it's time to go deeper. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew, Continuing the "Deathrun remade" mod with (close to) max difficulty. 🙂 Because I wanted to get a stream in while it's still my birthday. 🙂 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

Sea Dragon jumpscare moment. 😛 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse/clip/ObliviousHotDiamondOSsloth-949ORF-wL_mcjdtq

[limpid lotus]

@rich sinew, Continuing the "Deathrun remade" mod with (close to) max difficulty. 🙂 Getting close to the end; just need to dodge a sea dragon or two; how hard could it be? 😛 https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse

[limpid lotus]

Welp... https://www.twitch.tv/tormuse/clip/AdorableCrunchyRaisinNotLikeThis-lOXeIyjVsO8YMLmB

I thought I was on to something when I realized the stasis rifle blocks sea dragon fireballs, but something went wrong in the end. Either I accidentally poked my head out of the stasis field too soon or a fireball got me in between stasis rifle shots. 😐

Oh well, better luck next time. 🙂

[lapis osprey]

They don't block the fireballs

I've seen another streamer also die to them through a stasis ball

[rich sinew]

crushing. The run looked so good too

[limpid lotus]

Here's the whole run. 🙂 https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL5IBRQAZA3zm9z5aM35RweGHPGkdcw0fi

I almost reached the alien containment facility; it was the last most dangerous leg of the run, after which I would've been able to use the gates to get up and down, allowing me to skip the sea dragons. 😐 Oh well, better luck next time. 🙂

[limpid lotus]

Are you sure? Here's my second-last session, time-stamped to when a sea dragon breathed fire at me and I hid behind a stasis bubble. It sure looks like the fireballs are hitting the edge of the bubble and coming to a stop, all hovering in mid-air. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-3zEEAmrOo&t=12924s

[lapis osprey]

It looks like they are being blocked most of the time

But yeah, the other guy also thought he was safe and was as surprised when one hit him

[limpid lotus]

The above clip was my first time actually attempting to use a stasis rifle to stop fireballs; I wasn't sure if it would work.

Apparently, it's an iffy strategy. 😛

But still promising. 🙂

Since I almost made it. 🙂

I probably should've moved along faster than I did in any case.

[lapis osprey]

Yeah, on my Deathrun speedruns I just prayed and seaglied straight for the door

[lapis osprey]

I reviewed the video at 0.25 speed pausing almost every frame and I think you died from touching the lava actually after the Sea Dragon swiped you pushing you into the lava. If you pause like I did, you will see your health go from around 90 to around 30 then a split second later to zero. The swipe attack must have a reach long enough to reach you through the bubble without the dragon's head touching the bubble to freeze it.

Although, there does appear to be some explosion graphics shortly after. Difficult to say.

[limpid lotus]

I don't think so. I reviewed it again and the sound effect that the sea dragon made indicates that it was breathing fire, not swiping. The head-bob motion at the end is the usual motion the player character makes when he dies, and doesn't indicate being pushed anywhere. Also, it was definitely a one-shot, not in two steps; I see what you're saying about the health seemingly dropping to 30% then the rest of the way, but I think that's cosmetic, as evidenced by the fact that the "you died" message is on the screen before the health starts dropping in the first place. I'm still convinced one of the fireballs hit me.

[rich sinew]

you were at full health, oneshot protection would have put you down to 5 health. It's likely you took residual damage from somewhere else directly after, which also explains the speed difference in the health bar dropping

[limpid lotus]

And the stasis field didn't move, so I don't think I had released the stasis rifle shot yet, so I don't think it was a case of the fireball getting through in between shots. I think either I accidentally stuck my head out of the field, or the fireball just went through it.

[limpid lotus]

Would oneshot protection work if I wasn't at full health to begin with? Shortly before the fireball killed me, I got a bit singed by lava when I got too close to it.

[rich sinew]

it works by capping any damage you take to 95 at most, so as long as you're at 96 or higher you cannot die

[limpid lotus]

Yeah, that tracks. At 1:48:33 I touched the lava and it took off about 10% of my health. That probably contributed to doing me in.

(I guess I should've brought more med kits for that last trip) 😐

[storm badge]

I don't recall seeing any wide ranging oneshot protection in the code... Not at the computer to do any looking right now, either

[lapis osprey]

                    // Oneshot protection if the player is wearing any kind of suit.
                    if (target == Player.main.gameObject && Inventory.main.equipment.GetTechTypeInSlot("Body") != TechType.None)
                    {
                        // Cap damage at 95.
                        __result = Mathf.Min(95f, __result * smaller);
                        break;
                    }```

[storm badge]

Interesting. Does that apply before or after the damage reduction from the reinforced suit?

[rich sinew]

I don't fully recall, but it's a postfix so I'd assume after

[storm badge]

Wait... Postfix? This is a patch? Not part of the vanilla code?

Is it part of Deathrun?

[storm badge]

okay yeah, there we go, found it despite the project on Github being broken.

[rich sinew]

yeah the vanilla game doesn't have that

to be fair it probably also doesn't need it. Few things deal enough damage in vanilla for it to be needed

[lapis osprey]

So, rushing reinforced suit can make you survive the explosion while watching it.

Not sure how to get past crush depth to get to any of that databoxes, though

[storm badge]

in Deathrun, apparently. Unless the explosion's damage comes in multiple waves.

[storm badge]

There's a wreck with a reinforced suit databox in the Bulb Zone at a depth of 198; Pushing it sure, but probably just enough that you could tank the pressure damage long-enough to get the databox

Then again you'd need the blood oil, and I'm not sure if you can get enough of it around the 200m mark

[limpid lotus]

In early game, you're still struggling to get oxygen tanks and the repair tool. I can't see the reinforced suit being a priority just to deal with the explosion... and then after the explosion, you can't wear the reinforced suit because of radiation.

It's good to know that the reinforced suit has this benefit, but I don't think it changes early game strategy much.

[storm badge]

nope

Especially when this benefit extends to any suit

[thorn haven]

There is no oneshot protection for the sea dragon fireball on the highest difficulty. If it's coded in the attack itself must deal layered damage (e.g. Impact damage+heat damage).
Either way it's always oneshot.

#1160113039182405642 message

Also I don't think there should be something like that anyways. Is that an OG deathrun feature by Cattlesquat or added by someone else?

[rich sinew]

It is an og feature

[novel horizon]

i got a problem it seems i got to the prawn and i can make seamoths wz 2 and 3 modules but idk how to progress deper since wz1 for prawn needs kyanite and i cant go below 800m with my diving suit

[lapis osprey]

Read the Deathrun/Personal Crush Depth entry in PDA

[silk zodiac]

Playing on legacy with the old Death Run, do y'all think I'm safe?

https://cdn.discordapp.com/emojis/1196634700576477224.webp?size=64&name=wheeze

[lapis osprey]

How?

[silk zodiac]

I turned off the personal crush depth setting and had multiple ultra high capacity air tanks

Used a Seaglide to get all the way down to the Primary Containment Facility, had to make several pit stops along the way to refill my air

[nimble leaf]

How do I get magnetite early game

I cant find any unless its in jelly shroom biom and i cant get there cuz personal crush depth

[lapis osprey]

Mountain island in the grass in the shallow water

[nimble leaf]

Guess what's over there

[lapis osprey]

Yep

[nimble leaf]

Thats right its mr mandibles

[lapis osprey]

Gotta know how to dodge

[nimble leaf]

I barely made it outta there

[lapis osprey]

Why did you venture into the cave?

[neat quest]

this mod has permanently changed how I play the series. even in SN2 I'm instinctively avoiding the surface thinking it's poison