#Deathrun Remade

1 messages · Page 1 of 1 (latest)

rich sinew
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A discussion channel for the rewrite of Deathrun.

quiet cobalt
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Ah, nice and shiny

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What do you with exposed in the assets folder, cosmic won’t need to edit that?

winged shale
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Regarding the TODO item "Add some way to remove passive power drain from the scanner room. It gets really rough with the multiplier." there's actually a tiny mod that @fleet moth made to remove the passive energy cost: #🎮┃mod-discussion message

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(which you might be able to incorporate with permission)

quiet cobalt
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Could users not use that mod if they want that

rich sinew
winged shale
rich sinew
fleet moth
winged shale
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I'm glad you say "Nitrogen ascent is not punishing enough" because I thought the same, although I wasn't 100% sure. I felt I was able to ascend pretty quickly in my test game, and thought "I think this is easier"

fleet moth
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What happens if you do ascend too fast with that Nitrogen stuff enabled? Instant death?

winged shale
rich sinew
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The safe depth is meant to increase heavily, but the math seems off so it's really only like two meters at a time

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Plus safe depth takes almost literal ages to adjust to you when you're at great depths, even though it shouldn't. That one puzzles me a bit

winged shale
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My feeling about the original N2 stuff in Deathrun was that it tended to converge on safe depth = your current depth/2 over time, but it would increase rapidly if you ascended quickly.

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Which is why it needed to change from safe depth to a percentage when you got above 10m, because otherwise you'd suffer from Zeno's paradox and never be able to reach the surface

rich sinew
winged shale
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Odd as in, the code isn't doing what you were aiming for?

rich sinew
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Yup

quiet cobalt
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Yeah, definitely somewhat easier to ascend now

winged shale
rich sinew
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The range is 0 to infinity, essentially. Scales with how much you go over the limit

quiet cobalt
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Yeah, definitely has killed IRL

rich sinew
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There's a bit of mercy in it in that you won't get oneshot above a certain health

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
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Haven’t gotten far enough in a run to know, but you did make it that vehicles also come without power cells?

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Also, now that I mention that. Will you be adding the no-vehicle challenge? Don’t remember seeing that? Not currently on my computer.

rich sinew
rich sinew
quiet cobalt
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Oh, will look tonight

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We still need to be able to build the cyclops for the shield generator for the rocket or not? Not sure how the original Deathrun got around that, because weren’t able to get that far in a run with the no-vehicle challenge on.😊

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Don’t know of anyone that has been able to complete that challenge either, so can’t ask around

rich sinew
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You would be able to get the shield gen once you have the hatching enzymes, although that does kind of defeat the purpose

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Definitely changing that recipe

quiet cobalt
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The Lifepod keeps sinking if you aren’t near it. ❤️

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Thank you so much for doing this. I know it has been/is a mammoth task

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Used unlock all for testing purposes. These should not be in blueprints, I think, as they are not craftable?

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
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You mean does it sink under the terrain?

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No

rich sinew
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Perfect

quiet cobalt
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Indeed. In other versions of the mod it stopped when you were 20m away

rich sinew
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There's a component on it that's meant to freeze it in place when you get too far away, i.e. pretty much on unload. I've seen it malfunction while using debug teleports though so I was a bit worried

quiet cobalt
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How far would unload be?

rich sinew
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I have absolutely no idea, but definitely more than 20m

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However far the game keeps things in memory

quiet cobalt
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You can change how fast it sinks?

rich sinew
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Yeah basically by changing its own gravity

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tbh I think it should be pretty much impossible to swim away far enough with only 45s of oxygen for the pod to clip through terrain

quiet cobalt
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Okay, if it does become an issue on deep spawns, we can talk about this

quiet cobalt
rich sinew
quiet cobalt
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Oh, don't have much experience with console commands

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Does the command not unlock the rocket stages?

rich sinew
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It should. I think. I'm not sure if it makes them show up in the pda but you can definitely build them

quiet cobalt
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I see now what you meant by getting the hatching enzyme in the no-vehicle challenge. What did you want to change about the recipe?

rich sinew
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Replace the shield generator in the rocket with something else, so that making a cyclops remains optional

quiet cobalt
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Ah, nice

rich sinew
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Perhaps simply its ingredients

quiet cobalt
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Do you need suggestions?

rich sinew
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I'm always open for them

quiet cobalt
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Oh, that will do

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Although, not having to scan the fragments and open the databox does remove some of the challenge

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I think the challenge is probably hard enough without having to do that, though

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But man, that extra challenge by having to go to Sea treaders , mountains and underwater wrecks without a vehicle

winged shale
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I know that the various Randomiser mods randomise the door codes - do you think you could build that into this mod too? Or would you just advise folks to use a Randomiser mod (assuming you can make it affect door codes only)

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Also, in the original mod on Legacy, your Deathrun saves would show each game's current score on the loading screen, along with the other details like the screenshot and vehicle icons. Is that planned for the remake?

rich sinew
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I don't think randomised door codes fit into deathrun all that well tbh. The randomiser is modular enough that you can turn on only that part of it, if desired

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Adding the current score to the save file / loading screen is possible, but it feels a bit stressful in some sense? I hadn't really planned on it

winged shale
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I agree about randomiser being modular enough (assuming, as I said, you can make it just randomise door code). The reason I felt like it could fit would be simply from the "things are harder" perspective - you can't just remember the code to the captain's quarters and clear the Aurora in a single trip, you either have to put off repairing the radiation leaks until you get the radio message with the captain's door code, or risk multiple trips to the Aurora past the Reaper at the front.

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Showing the current score on the save files never felt stressful to me? It meant I could look at my high score table and see where my in-progress current runs were in relation to my high scores.

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The original also hid non-deathrun saves from the loading screen, which made sense to me, because I don't know that enabling deathrun mid-save makes a lot of sense.

rich sinew
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Fair points all around

winged shale
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I was thinking about the idea of the lifepod tumbling as it sank some more. It would be fair WRT the fire and being stuck in the PDA if instead of rotating by changing pitch (assuming the "front" of the lifepod is the end with the radio), you could rotate by changing the roll. The fire is at the front of the lifepod by the radio-is-front definition, so if you're rolled around you don't get pushed towards the fire, you go from standing on the floor to standing on the seat you just stood up from to standing on the ceiling to standing on the other seat (or the other way around if it rotates clockwise).

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It would also make sense in-fiction, assuming that the two orange pontoon-looking things down the sides of the outside of the lifepod are the floatation system, and they didn't fail simultaneously - one failing first would start the lifepod rolling as that side sank first.

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Anyway, I don't want to make silly amounts of extra work for you, but I thought I'd share some more thoughts for your consideration. I'll shut up about it now 😁

winged shale
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It seems that while the modified recipe for the scanner didn't make it into the RecipeChanges.json file, the battery was correctly removed from the resulting scanner. So, I just manually added some entries to my RecipeChanges.json file and it's all good:

    {
      "techType": "Scanner",
      "craftAmount": 1,
      "ingredients": [
        {
          "techType": "Copper",
          "amount": 1
        },
        {
          "techType": "Titanium",
          "amount": 1
        }
      ]
    },
    {
      "techType": "Flashlight",
      "craftAmount": 1,
      "ingredients": [
        {
          "techType": "Copper",
          "amount": 1
        },
        {
          "techType": "Titanium",
          "amount": 1
        },
        {
          "techType": "Glass",
          "amount": 1
        }
      ]
    },
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You know, when you first make Bleach, the PDA says "Bleach is an essential chemical used for cleaning wounds, and purifying water." I wonder if, above some difficulty level, the Medkit recipe could be adjusted to require Bleach + Fiber Mesh, rather than just Fiber Mesh.

winged shale
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I felt that my Seaglide drained a copper/zinc battery to 0% significantly faster in this version than the original, although that's not a bad thing. Is there a known difference in the copper/zinc batteries in this version compared to CattleSquat's?

winged shale
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Another thing: the battery recycling recipe (3 copper/zinc batteries => 2 copper) is missing.

quiet cobalt
winged shale
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Well, I did say "at some difficulty level" 😁

quiet cobalt
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You said above

winged shale
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Well, yes, sorry, "at or above". You're saying that at the highest difficulty levels, you need to be crafting extra medkits regularly, and increasing the cost would make that level too hard?

quiet cobalt
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Yes

winged shale
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Fair enough.

quiet cobalt
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You need around 6 to 10 medkits in inventory to survive the swim back to the Lifepod after the explosion

winged shale
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Yikes 🙂

quiet cobalt
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Depending on starting location

winged shale
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Yeah, on default Deathrun starting in a relatively shallow location is touch-and-go when you have to get back from 100m deep.

rich sinew
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I think there were also some hidden exceptions for certain things hidden in original deathrun? Could be one of those

quiet cobalt
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Maybe bleach can be added to the medical kit fabricator recipe

rich sinew
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Neat idea

quiet cobalt
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Or maybe to the medkit recipe also, but crafting yields two medkits

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The salt man, the salt

rich sinew
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Is this the bargaining stage

quiet cobalt
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3 medkits?

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Throw in an extra creepvine sample and coral piece😋

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For good measure

winged shale
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Personal crush depth not implemented yet? I'm not taking any damage at 220m without the rad suit

rich sinew
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It is in, will take a look

rich sinew
winged shale
# rich sinew It is in, will take a look

Ok. FWIW I was swimming around in the NW mushroom forest, and dipping down below 200m to grab air from the alien gate cave there. When there was no apparent damage I tried hanging around for a bit at 220m and nothing seemed to happen.

rich sinew
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It does trigger, the damage is just super low for some reason

winged shale
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Ok. I don't think my character even grunted? And in the original the green curve under the depth turns red when you're below your safe depth, but that didn't happen for me.

rich sinew
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I think I wrote this part when I got tired cause the math works out to 4 damage dealt at 50 meters below the crush depth

winged shale
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Ah, that seems quite generous 🙂

rich sinew
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Was probably thinking of quick exits at huge depths with vehicles but without suits?

winged shale
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You can certainly survive going a short distance beyond your safe depth in the original, but I've never gone very far below. I think when I've dived down to ~250m to snatch magnitite before getting the rad suit, I take about 25% of my health by the time I've seaglided down and back up.

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Being below your safe diving depth in a vehicle doesn't really happen in Deathrun IME, because the upgrades generally force you to free-dive to get the materials to upgrade your vehicles. Like, you can't get the Seamoth below 300m until you've free-dived down and collected nickel and/or crystalline sulphur, and you can't get the PRAWN or Cyclops below 900m until you've free-dived down and got Kyanite.

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At least, that's my recollection.

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Off the top of my head I'd probably advocate for a non-linear function for damage beyond your safe diving limit. Going a short distance beyond should hurt but not by too much, but going well below should really hurt.

quiet cobalt
winged shale
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Mind you, you'd get non-linear damage even if the damage is a linear function of depth beyond your limit simply because it takes time to travel down to that depth and back again to your safe limit, taking damage all the while.

quiet cobalt
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OG Deathrun also hid non-Deathrun saves btw

rich sinew
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4 damage at 8m too low and then doubling every 8 after that

winged shale
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Woof, exponential - I was thinking square 🙂

rich sinew
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So you can go down to ~20-30m relatively easily if you're at full health, but beyond that is rough

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Exponential capped at 2^6 though, so the max damage you take is 64

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...before any damage multipliers

winged shale
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64 per 5 second (or whatever) and then you have to continue taking lesser damage as you swim back up again.

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But yeah, I feel that's fine. I never even tried to push my personal crush depth until very recently, because I'd always treated it as a hard limit, and just resigned myself to waiting until I got the suit upgrades before trying to go deeper.

rich sinew
rich sinew
quiet cobalt
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Swimming below crush depth shouldn’t be a walk in the park

winged shale
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BTW, I definitely feel that tool power use is way higher in this version than the original. This is outside of any radiation. I'm not even sure if the power consumption by tools is even increased in the original, it might just be that the batteries you can make are lower capacity.

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Meaning that once you've eventually upgraded to lithium batteries and have dealt with the leaks (or are otherwise outside of radiation) you get to enjoy vanilla performance from your tools.

quiet cobalt
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Tool power use was increased in OG and increased more when irradiated

winged shale
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Yeah, it's certainly significantly increased by radiation. Are you sure that the default Deathrun settings increased tool power useage though?

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I guess we can check 🙂

quiet cobalt
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Uhm, I might be wrong thinking about it

winged shale
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Probably need to check the original code or do some experiments.

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Or check the tooltips in the settings menu

quiet cobalt
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Yeah, I think you are correct in that regard

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But yeah, it will be in the code

rich sinew
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It looks more like a bug tbh

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So yeah tools only ever consumed vanilla power. Not even affected by radiation

winged shale
quiet cobalt
rich sinew
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Ohhhh wait yeah the increased costs were in radiation only, but the full brunt of it

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Nothing outside of radiation though

winged shale
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Re: crush depth - I think I was experimenting trying to get different tooltips to explain what the difference between "Hard (Reinforced Suit)" and "Deathrun (Adv. Reinforced Suits)" was (and the tooltip didn't change between them), and ended up accidentally leaving it on none.

quiet cobalt
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Okay, that sounds right

winged shale
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But, still, it did prompt you to double check the personal crush depth code and realise it needed adjusting, so all's well that ends well 😁

rich sinew
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That's a bit of a limitation of the options menu. I can't change tooltips very easily once the menu is built, so they kind of have to be static

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Well not really, tbh. I could make them change but that's more trouble than it's worth and terrible UI

winged shale
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That's unfortunate. And explaining the details of all three options in a single tooltip would be a big tooltip.

rich sinew
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The option can definitely do with a better tooltip though

winged shale
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I presume the difference between Hard and Deathrun is that on Hard you get unlimited personal depth with the reinforced suit, but in Deathrun, you need to upgrade to the Mk 3 to get unlimited?

rich sinew
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Pretty much

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Some of the other suits also have their depth reduced on deathrun

winged shale
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But you don't want to spoil the whole business with upgrading your reinforced suit in the options menu...

rich sinew
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It's less about spoilers and more so about the number of suits? There's six of them with numbers that adjust to every setting

winged shale
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Yeah, but I think there should also a best-effort attempt to avoid spoilers (i.e. too much detail) in the tooltips - one of the fun things about first picking up Deathrun is that you have these new unknowns you get to discover for yourself.

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Probably for the personal crush depth tooltip, something like "On Hard or Deathrun, you have a personal crush depth of 200m. You will need to craft advanced suits to increase it (with Deathrun requiring more upgrades)."

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Something like that, anyway.

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Give an impression of the experience you'll have, but to learn the details you have to play.

rich sinew
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Good point

winged shale
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Anyway, I'm heading off. I hope my obsessive comments aren't annoying 🙂 Thanks again for taking on this project, Deathrun really makes Subnautica a whole new experience, and your version is looking great so far. I love the new N2 UI you've created

rich sinew
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That's not obsessive, that's just very passionate. Love getting so much feedback♥️

quiet cobalt
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@rich sinew Used Randomiser to get a Sea Treader's spawn and had Ryley stay at the surface with a floating airpump and pipe. The pod hasn't stopped sinking. It is currently 2600m deep. Will wait to see what happens eventually.

late vapor
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If you dont want to simulate collision maybe you could raycast down on start and cache the position? Then you could stop when near that position and not have to rely on the colliders. The only problem would be if on start it was so deep the colliders weren’t enabled, and the raycast wouldn’t hit anything

quiet cobalt
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Died from dehydration when the pod was 7370m deep

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Will swim away and see what happens then

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Same result

quiet cobalt
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My terrain seems to render ~140m away. So, in my case if the pod could halt its descent when the player is that far away would work. Ideally I would want it to have struck bottom before my return from the shallows, but understand if that isn’t possible.

quiet cobalt
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Of course, having it halt at that distance and having it sink at Riley's max unaided swimspeed will solve that.

rich sinew
rich sinew
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the pod needed more work anyway, time to throw that on the list

quiet cobalt
rich sinew
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it's better to make sure. Plus, fixing the issue improves compatibility with other mods, and that's never a bad thing

winged shale
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There is a heightmap of the Subnautica map, used by e.g. the "Sinking Items Fix" mod, but apparently originally from the "Persistent Reapers" mod. You could potentially detect on start if the raycast didn't hit anything, meaning that the sea floor geometry isn't loaded, and fall back on the heightmap if that happens. I'm not sure if you want to go that route though, having a whole other mechanism which only kicks in for weird/unsupported spawn locations.

quiet cobalt
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Exotic locations

winged shale
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Shall we say "non-deathrun-standard locations" then 😁

quiet cobalt
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That can also work

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I’ve been slowly getting to know every inch of the map because of such starting locations, literally quite awesome places out there.

winged shale
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Yeah, for sure... when you're tied to a few dozen meters around your O2 point, you get to know those random locations very well

rich sinew
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It's amazing to me how even after all this time I keep underestimating how much time these things take

quiet cobalt
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Curious as to what took long?

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Oh, a new release OmegaPogChamp

rich sinew
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It feels like I did very little but each of these fixes took hours to get right

quiet cobalt
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Wdym it is only 4 days later

rich sinew
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Yeah I thought it might take me one or two. You know, a couple of "quick" fixes

quiet cobalt
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Still too easy to ascend IMO

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It is almost there, but just not quite

quiet cobalt
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Directly after the explosion the lifepod started a rick roll

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Also, no radiation

winged shale
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Alas, new release and I'm just off to work 😩

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I'll look forward to giving it a spin later

quiet cobalt
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Lifepod is really annoying after explosion

rich sinew
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The physics I assume

quiet cobalt
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Going to try to make a video

rich sinew
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I'm going to start pulling the indie dev card and name the prerelases things. pre-3, The Lifepod Update

quiet cobalt
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Guess I still need to make a radiation suit for the crush depth

quiet cobalt
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Apologies for the poor quality

quiet cobalt
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Is this rolling around of the pod because you tried to implement what Rob suggested?

brave merlin
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e

quiet cobalt
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You knifed them?

brave merlin
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seamoth lazer

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wait i used the seamoth scanner to

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too

quiet cobalt
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No, have to knife them

late vapor
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You need to knife

brave merlin
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bruh

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just hoping theres one left to knife

late vapor
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If you need to you can delete cell caches and they’ll respawn

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Or just console command them in

brave merlin
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ill do console

brave merlin
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i got river prowler scales

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its not unlocking or anything

winged shale
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I've been thinking about this TODO item you have

Progressively worse Kharaa infection to counteract difficulty being too frontloaded
... and wanted to share my thoughts, in case they're of interest. Apologies for the wall of text 🙂

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  • I presume that you'll have another option under mod settings to choose between disabling it, and one or more levels of difficulty with escalating mechanics.
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  • The game gives you a number of elements which you can repurpose: enzyme peepers, alien vents, the Disease Research Center and the animation where you develop pustules on your hands. I'm hoping you can override the code to play the "infected hands" animation under your control, instead of when you get the data from the DRC.
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  • I think that a purely timer-based approach (e.g. "you die of Kharaa on day 30" or whatever) would be very hard to balance, because the length of time it takes to get stuff done in Deathrun is highly variable, and also very dependent on the other difficulty settings you pick. So, I feel that mechanical effects from Kharaa infection should only kick in when you reach a specific milestone, after which something timer-based kicks in, but make it able to be mitigated by the player.
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  • So, given all that, what I'm thinking is that you start a silent timer when the player first enters the Lost River. After that time (around an hour perhaps), you trigger the "infected hands" animation. At this point, start a player-visible "Death from infection" countdown timer using the Aurora explosion/Sunbeam arrival timer, which kills you if it hits zero no matter your health. The time shown on the timer is decently long (say 3 or 4 real-time hours), but not long enough to finish the game.
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  • Given that it's Deathrun, the player might assume they have to rush the end, but they can actually learn that they can use enzyme peepers to give themselves more time. Given that a peeper's "enzyme status" is preserved when you pick it up and then drop it elsewhere, I'm hoping it's some data field on the item in their inventory that you can test. Perhaps eating a raw enzyme peeper will add another 15 minutes (or something) to the clock. Swimming in an ACU with enzyme peepers might pause the timer while you're inside, if you can detect that. You might even make it that if you add enough time to the clock, the pustules on your hands disappear, but they come back again (without the animation) when the death clock drops enough again. There should be a maximum value you can push the clock up to though, so a player who has worked out that you can feed peepers into the alien vents to get infinite enzyme peepers can't just push their clock into the stratosphere. If the clock originally started showing 3 hours, then perhaps you can push the clock up to a maximum of 4 hours, giving you an hour of no pustules before the pustules return.
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  • While the player has visible pustules on their hands, they also slowly take damage over time (hopefully you can do that without playing the "ouch" sound), which will kill them if they don't keep their food up and/or regularly use medkits (perhaps using a medkit gives a temporary grace period where you don't take damage over time for a bit?)
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  • For QoL, it would be good if enzyme peepers actually had a distinct name in the player's inventory vs. regular peepers. Ideally, you'd tie that to a player scanning a glowy peeper and getting the "Advanced Theory: Enzyme Host Peeper" PDA entry, after which enzyme peepers would be labelled as such in the players' inventory. Based on the "Unknown Name" mod, it's possible to do stuff like this, but I don't know how hard it is.
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  • There aren't any alien vents or enzyme peepers in the Lost River and Lava Zones (I don't believe), and you can't build an ACU on the Cyclops, so the player will want to lay in a supply of enzyme peepers before heading deeper.
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  • Swimming in the Sea Emperor's tank in the Primary Containment Facility should also pause the timer, like swimming in an ACU with enzyme peepers.
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  • It would be good if there was some benefit to going to the Disease Research Facility, which I believe is otherwise completely optional. Since you're no longer triggering the "infected hands" animation when you get the data download on Kharaa, perhaps that data download could unlock a blueprint for something which is more efficient than a single enzyme peeper (e.g. enzyme peeper + fungal sample = Enzyme 42 Extract, which gives you 2 or 3 times as much time added to the clock as a raw enzyme peeper, allowing you to stretch your supply of such peepers further, and also taking less inventory space). I don't know if you could make a fabricator recipe which specifically demanded an enzyme peeper and not just a regular peeper, though.
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  • It would also be a nice piece of polish if the "Death from Infection" label on the timer changed to "Death from Kharaa" once they've unlocked the Kharaa research PDA entry.
late vapor
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I'm hoping you can override the code to play the "infected hands" animation under your control
You can do this. There's a console command that does this actually

Based on the "Unknown Name" mod, it's possible to do stuff like this, but I don't know how hard it is.
I've sort of copied another mod on changing item tooltips but it's definitely possible

Swimming in an ACU with enzyme peepers might pause the timer while you're inside, if you can detect that.
This is probably doable. Not sure how hard it would be though

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I also think it would be a very cool addition to deathrun

winged shale
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Yeah, Raqzas' idea of bringing the infection into play in a mechanical way is cool. He's right that the difficulty is very high at the start, but it sort of eases off if you manage to survive and gear up.

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There are some things that Deathrun forces you to do which make it risky later on, like having the free-dive for Kyanite before you can upgrade your PRAWN and Cyclops depth modules to get down that deep, but it's not as omnipresent as the unbreathable atmosphere and radiation in the early game, and the N2 mechanics are mostly irrelevant when you're in the late game and 900+ meters deep and don't try to return to the surface for oxygen anyway.

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And the game gives a perfect in-fiction complication in the form of Kharaa to make things harder in the late game.

winged shale
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And if the game doesn't do that, you maybe you could get the same effect by creating a custom "enzyme host peeper" item which you switch for vanilla enzyme peepers when they enter the players' inventory (persisting in that state in lockers etc), and reverts to a regular peeper with the enzyme flag set if it's ever dropped in water.

winged shale
# winged shale * It would be good if there was some benefit to going to the Disease Research Fa...

Another thought about this: perhaps you don't get time back from eating raw enzyme host peepers, and you actually need to get that blueprint from the Disease Research Facility and use Enzyme 42 Extract (or whatever) to even start adding time back on the clock. If the countdown starts at 3 hours, that's not too hard (4 hours real time from first entering the Lost River to investigating the DRF should be pretty straightforward if you know that you need to do it), but of course the mod wouldn't outright tell you "you need to go to the DRF." It would be yet another thing the player needs to discover in order to beat Deathrun, like how you increase your personal crush depth beyond that of the Reinforced Dive Suit.

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Or perhaps those two options (raw peeper vs. extract) could be different levels of difficulty for the "Infection" difficulty selection in the mod options.

late vapor
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I think enzyme peepers should slow it at least a little, so people who don't know to go to the DRF can still use them. Maybe they just give very little extra time

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Actually yeah, I think the difficulty option would be better

winged shale
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Perhaps on the setting where raw enzyme peepers don't add time back, they at least pause the timer for a bit, but they don't stack (so eating two at once is the same as eating one). That means the player is given concrete feedback that they're on the right track with enzyme peepers affecting the timer, but it's not as convenient as adding time back on the clock. They could even win the game without getting the blueprint from the DRF if they were vigilant about eating enzyme peepers at intervals, but it would be inconvenient, and they can't undo it if they take a long time to work out how to pause it, or (once they do) the clock resumes and they don't notice/don't have an enzyme peeper on hand to chomp... that would make the clock feel like a one-way looming threat even if you can in theory delay it indefinitely.

late vapor
#

Yeah I think that's a good idea. That's kind of what I was thinking of too

quiet cobalt
#

Wouldn’t something to counteract such a timer just defeat the purpose

#

If a player wants to take their time to complete a run, they can just disable such a feature

#

I think let’s first hear what Raqzas had in mind.

#

If he wants to disclose.

#

I have a feeling his idea was not to have it time based, but perhaps rather progression point based

fleet moth
#

Does deathrun disable pausing?

quiet cobalt
#

No

#

Wouldn’t want that.

winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

Ramune’s question

winged shale
#

Definitely interested to hear what Raqzas has in mind (or discover it through play, if they'd rather keep it under wraps), but as I said, I wanted to share my thoughts for what it's worth.

winged shale
#

And my initial comments were that anything time-based would be incredibly difficult to balance against all the variations of settings that the mod allows, if the time limit was immutable. Which might be an argument against having a time-based element to the mechanism at all, but I thought I came up with something that could work.

#

Anyway, I'm not wedded to the idea - the remake is Raqzas' project and they can take or leave suggestions as they please.

quiet cobalt
#

It fits in nicely with the lore, but I don’t think it solves the original issue.

quiet cobalt
#

When they have discovered then it subsequent runs they will have the knowledge.

rich sinew
# quiet cobalt

oh wow that jitter. Looks like it's colliding with the floor?

quiet cobalt
#

Why after the explosion?

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
#

It was fine prior to the explosion

rich sinew
#

Very possible, considering how much I upped the strenght on that

#

Alright so using physics for the pod was a neat idea but it just causes more problems than it solves

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
#

None anywhere. I haven’t been on land

#

I had to retire for the evening shortly after. So, haven’t tested everything thoroughly.

rich sinew
#

I'm not sure what I was thinking

rich sinew
#

I wish I could pin posts

rich sinew
rich sinew
quiet cobalt
#

There was an earlier report about copper/zinc batteries not being recyclable. Don’t see it in the list, maybe you missed that.

rich sinew
#

Did not, that is fixed along with all the other recipe changes

#

...I'm setting up the issue tracker. There's too many things to keep track of

quiet cobalt
#

Oh, didn’t notice it in the fabricator. Will have another look.

#

WRT the no radiation, I have damage from the explosion set to off(because no timer). Don’t know whether something about that might have caused the no radiation.

#

Radiation is set to 200m

rich sinew
#

It shouldn't. I have separated out the different parts of the mod into independent pieces wherever possible

quiet cobalt
#

Maybe it takes long to spread? I’m in the shallows right next to the jellyshroom degasi base entrance. So, not very far from the Aurora.

rich sinew
#

Possible. Although the depth-based radiation should be happening even outside that circle

quiet cobalt
#

Mind you. Shouldn’t the vanilla explosion damage have killed me that close to the Aurora.

rich sinew
#

Not really, since the explosion is centred on the generator room. At the degasi entrance is actually fairly far away

quiet cobalt
#

Yeah, guess I was just outside the radius.

image0.jpg
#

Or maybe further even. I think that might be the kelp area I circled. Anyway, nvm then

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
#

Or are you rather going to abandon that idea?

rich sinew
#

It won't, since its position is already anchored at that point. I could temporarily release the lock but that sounds like so many new problems

quiet cobalt
#

What was the intention of the explosion affecting it?

rich sinew
#

Unintentional, just a side effect of using physics

quiet cobalt
#

I see

rich sinew
#

Kinda cool, but still

winged shale
#

The pod sinking at the start using physics is much smoother than sinking in the original Deathrun, at least for me on my machine.

#

And the fact that it keeps sinking when you move away from it is also something worth keeping.

rich sinew
#

If you're inside it, yes

quiet cobalt
#

Yeah, no more stuttering

winged shale
#

Could you switch between script-based sinking if you're outside and physics-based if you're inside?

rich sinew
#

The stuttering is very much there if you leave early and look at it sink lol

quiet cobalt
#

I’ll pretty always leave immediately

winged shale
#

Yeah, but for some of the deeper starting locations you often need to come back before it's finished sinking to get more air.

quiet cobalt
#

Indeed

rich sinew
#

That mismatch is what caused the stuttering while inside

winged shale
#

Interesting. I don't remember it looking like it was stuttering from the outside in the original, but it was really noticeable from the inside.

quiet cobalt
#

It is merely an aesthetic(not sure what word to use) bug

#

Still is

winged shale
#

Yeah, true. I think the way the remake works is better, because the stuttering inside the pod was quite offputting, but if it looks a bit stuttery from the outside it's not a real problem

#

(FWIW I'd probably call it a "cosmetic bug")

quiet cobalt
#

Doesn’t bother me

rich sinew
#

It's cosmetic, yes, but it's still something I'll be looking at when I go over the escape pod's bugs for realsies

quiet cobalt
#

I see it as the floatation system trying to do something

winged shale
#

I'm just trying out prerelease 2. I agree with Ray, the nitrogen/bends system is almost right, but still a little too forgiving. The min depth needs to tick upwards more slowly, even if it's a lot deeper than current_depth * 0.75 (or whatever it tries to equalise at)

quiet cobalt
#

WRT the escape pod colliding with the floor after the explosion. Would having the escape pod stop sinking slightly higher, if this is possible, help maybe?

rich sinew
rich sinew
winged shale
#

How do you currently determine when to stop sinking? With a raycast or when it actually collides with the terrain?

rich sinew
#

When it has stopped sinking for a certain amount of time. Not actually collision but kinda sorta

winged shale
#

Ok. So you could potentially replace that with a raycast down from the underside of the pod which detects the collision point and then stop sinking 5m above that or something.

#

You wouldn't even need to do it every physics frame, since the terrain is static. Just raycast and store the depth somewhere.

#

Unless the ocean floor is more than 140 meters away, as previously discussed, in which case you'd need to keep firing off the raycast every now and then and hope the terrain geometry loads.

winged shale
#

Oh, tool power use is still multiplied, I think?

rich sinew
rich sinew
winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

Are you on hardcore?

winged shale
#

Not exactly - my laptop crashes too often to play on hardcore, because I often need to save just to avoid losing progress, but I always delete my save after my first death and start again.

quiet cobalt
#

You have radiation?

winged shale
#

I died to the bends just as the explosion happened, so I don't know, sorry...

#

Actually, I might not have deleted that save yet. Hang on.

quiet cobalt
#

But you respawned

winged shale
#

Yeah, in a lifepod 70m down

#

And then died to the Aurora explosion 🤣

quiet cobalt
#

I had no radiation after the explosion, so wanted to know whether you have the same

winged shale
#

Ah, oops, I didn't delete the save after dying, but I also didn't actually save before quitting, so I'm back to some time before the explosion.

#

I'll keep going with this save tomorrow and check if I get radiation post-explosion.

#

But now it's 11:30pm and I have work tomorrow, so I really should head to bed.

winged shale
rich sinew
#

I’m not planning on separate settings but yeah a reduced multiplier just for tools is what I had in mind. Still higher than vanilla but not quite so high that your seaglide runs out of juice within seconds

winged shale
#

Original deathrun limited tool use by nerfing the batteries, rather than multiplying the power consumption. Having nerfed batteries and multiplied tool use is sort of doubling the penalty...

#

But it's your mod, and I'm just giving one user's opinion, so do what you feel creates the experience you want 😁

#

Later!

cunning comet
quiet cobalt
#

So, upon loading my save. At least this is a way to make the bobbing stop, but now it is upside down. Let's have a look inside.

image.png
#

Nice garden in the pod, lol.

image.png
#

Vanilla radiation exists

#

Using the fabricator is 15 power

winged shale
# winged shale Original deathrun limited tool use by nerfing the batteries, rather than multipl...

I realised that this applies to vehicles too. They also have nerfed acid batteries + expensive normal (vanilla-level) batteries, and have the exit-at-depth decompression power cost as well. So, I'm guessing the default "Deathrun" difficulty for original Deathrun had "tools and vehicles x1, habitats x3, in radiation x5." A setting of "tools, vehicles and habitats x3, in radiation x5" would be a "worse than Deathrun" level of difficulty.

#

Hmm, on reloading that save from last night to test out radiation, I just noticed that the lifepod panel has reverted to unrepaired.

#

The interior is normally lit, not on emergency lighting. Power recovery does seem quite slow (but I'm not certain it's back to the initial, pre-repair level of recharging)

rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
#

I do actually remember running into that bug even in vanilla back in the pre-2.0 days. Could be that? I'm not directly messing with the repair status

winged shale
#

Yeah, I do remember that being a bug. I haven't seen it in years though. Interesting that it's resurfaced now.

#

Ok, this time I survived the Aurora explosion and swam up to the surface. No radiation. I've swum towards the Aurora, and didn't get radiation until I was super close to it, like it's acting in pre-explosion radiation mode.

#

Strange. I've found the edge of the radiation zone around the Aurora, and it's expanding super slowly. Like, I back off just enough for the "Radiation (Immune)" thing to vanish, and 5 seconds later it comes back on without me moving.

rich sinew
#

That seems about right. It takes around 3-4 days to reach the maximum radius iirc

rich sinew
winged shale
#

And it's not descending from the surface.

#

And my laptop just bluescreened, so RIP that experiment

winged shale
#

Is it easy to add custom console commands to the game? If so, could it be worth adding something to log out the state of CrashedShipExploder, LeakingRadiation and any other radiation-related internal datastructures, so Ray and I can help you debug the radiation problems?

#

That's assuming you're unable to reproduce the issues at your end.

#

(Or just log it out all the time I guess, and we can have a look in our log files and report. It's a prerelease, so putting debug info in the log for everyone isn't going to affect many users, because it'll only be a handful of us using the prerelease version)

rich sinew
#

Adding commands is very simple. I appreciate the enthusiasm but any help you could render wouldn't be useful either way until I actually get around to actually taking care of radiation. There's only so much time in a day, sadly

#

I have a pretty good idea of the likely culprit though

quiet cobalt
winged shale
#

Yeah, but I haven't seen it in years.

#

Shrug.

quiet cobalt
#

I know Rob would prefer OG difficulty, but I’m not opposed to changes in this regard.

winged shale
#

At least, for the things that are ported over from the original. New mechanics like Kahraa progression would obviously change things up.

#

Or rather, say at least that I'll advocate for the default "Deathrun" settings reproducing the original experience, especially in the early game, but I'm not going to be adamant about it 🙂

rich sinew
#

Pod stuff is fixed, yay

#

Although any existing saves will have the pod stand up straight even if it is has not been repaired yet

#

When did the aurora countdown timer actually start? I'm thinking of having it introduced at the "Explodes within 2 hours" PDA message

quiet cobalt
#

Like real early

#

The 2 hour thing is about 10 minutes before the explosion

#

This one, I believe: “Detecting increased local radiation levels.

Trend is consistent with damage to the Aurora's drive core, sustained during planetfall."

#

The 2 hour one does make a bit more sense, as all the others might be a little early for the pda to give an exact timeframe

wide python
#

Sorry for bothering anyone but how to you download the file off of GitHub?

quiet cobalt
wide python
quiet cobalt
#

This one uses Nautilus, so you can uninstall SMLHelper

wide python
#

thanks

#

i managed to download the file but it isnt appearing in the mod manager?

quiet cobalt
#

Vortex?

wide python
#

i dont have vortex installed unless its apart of nautilus

quiet cobalt
#

Are you taking about Subnautica Mod Manager?

wide python
#

oh yeah that, it isnt appearing in the mod section in the options menu either

quiet cobalt
#

How did you install it?

wide python
#

just off github i extracted it and put it in the plugins folder

quiet cobalt
#

Do you have Nautilus installed?

wide python
#

ya

quiet cobalt
#

Go to #❓┃help-and-support

wide python
#

k

rich sinew
rich sinew
wide python
#

sorry for bothering again but deathrun remade seems to not be applying to my game, it appears on the mod manager and i can tweak the setting but isnt applying when i press new game

#

this is what my folder consists of is there supposed to be more?#

quiet cobalt
#

Helping starnix36 in Help&Support

rich sinew
#

@quiet cobalt #❓┃help-and-support message Depends. The presence of SMLHelper alone can break things and I've had stuff be a bit more wonky but not outright go down the drain with it installed

#

It's primarily items where Nautilus and SML really start fighting. Iirc suits just don't show up in the crafting menu at all anymore

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
#

Awesome

rich sinew
#

I'm torn between being happy about it being a simple fix and this being a really dumb mistake to make

quiet cobalt
#

Be happy

winged shale
#

Yeah, most bugs appear as dumb mistakes when you have 20/20 hindsight.

#

So, I agree, be happy 🙂

rich sinew
#

I'm thinking I'll add the countdown timer tomorrow and then release pre-3. The most egregious things will be fixed at that point

quiet cobalt
#

Looking forward to testing it out over the weekend

late vapor
#

@rich sinew Would you be able to make the CrushDepthHandler public and/or make an API for registering suits at different depths? I'm trying to make SuitLib able to create custom suits for Deathrun but I can't patch that class

winged shale
#

Regarding the Aurora explosion countdown timer - I agree that it would be fine if it only appeared when you got the "Quantum detonation will occur within the next two hours" message. Having it appear with the initial "Detecting increased local radiation levels" message (as per the original) isn't very functional, in that it doesn't really give you useful information you can act on... the most important time is judging those last few minutes so you're in position to deal with the explosion.

#

However, I will note that having the countdown clock ticking away early does work very effectively as something to create stress, remind you that you're on the clock, and highlight how much of a big deal this thing is. So, even if it's not actually useful/functional to show it early, you might still consider doing it just for that reason.

winged shale
#

Also, as well as the countdown clock, the original also showed on-screen text messages saying things like "Explosion shockwave will be over {depth} meters deep!" and "Prepare to evacuate at least {depth}m deep, preferably inside." and "Seek safe depth immediately! Preferably inside!" on each explosion-related PDA message ("Detecting increased local radiation levels consistent with damage to the Aurora's drive core", "Continued degradation of the Aurora's drive core may result in a quantum detonation", "Quantum detonation will occur within 2 hours" and "Emergency: A quantum detonation has occurred") to really drive home to first-time Deathrun players that this is something they need to take seriously.

#

I feel that ideally you would still show on-screen messages along with those PDA messages even if you only show the countdown clock at the "two hours" message, to be fair to first-time players (and for the emotional impact of making players realise "Dang, this sounds pretty serious".)

rich sinew
wide python
#

I would appreciate a countdown clock after I got the 2 hour message it turned night and I have creature aggression turned on at night so I was fighting for my life at the entrance to the jellyshroom cave with 2 kelp forests worth of stalkers surrounding me

#

Was very cinematic though

quiet cobalt
rich sinew
quiet cobalt
#

@rich sinew Does the save system allow for multiple Deathrun saves?

rich sinew
#

It does, yeah. Just start a new save whenever. Your settings are saved and restored per-save.

quiet cobalt
#

Where are these saved?

rich sinew
#

Alongside the save data for the run itself

quiet cobalt
#

I don’t know what to make of the current case in #❓┃help-and-support

rich sinew
#

Basically whenever you start a new run the current state of the config is stored in the save file for that save file

#

Same. There's an unrelated nullref in there but I don't see how that would cause layering suits

wide python
rich sinew
#

Ohhhhh good point. What happens with the vanilla sunbeam message? Does that block pinned blueprints?

quiet cobalt
rich sinew
#

Wow

quiet cobalt
rich sinew
#

A bit torn between reusing that timer and making a new one

quiet cobalt
#

Probably easier to use the Sunbeam timer?

rich sinew
#

Probably. And a bit more familiar to the average player

winged shale
#

(I also use that mod for the same reason, but it's not perfect)

quiet cobalt
winged shale
#

Yeah, you pin blueprints because you want them there, so keeping them unobscured is more important

quiet cobalt
#

Wish one could place it yourself

winged shale
#

Something like the versatility of Ramune's coordinates mod for the default timer would be lovely.

quiet cobalt
#

Exactly

winged shale
#

The "overlap fix" mod was created by "JackLog" - are they on this server, do you know?

quiet cobalt
#

They were, haven’t seen them in very long

winged shale
#

Yes, looks like they are

#

Last post I see is April

quiet cobalt
#

I still asked them to make that mod

#

Was their first mod

#

They wanted a simple mod as a first one

winged shale
#

Nice

wide python
#

has radition and unbreathable air been added to deathrun remade yet?

quiet cobalt
wide python
#

isnt that out today? interesting i can breathe the air after the aurora exploded

quiet cobalt
wide python
#

cool beans

quiet cobalt
rich sinew
#

Issue/progress tracker is in pins btw. But yes, planned for today

rich sinew
wide python
rich sinew
#

I could not find any more issues with radiation so I'm assuming it's good for now

quiet cobalt
quiet cobalt
#

I think the escape will need to be a little more away from the seafloor, because one clips through the seafloor when using the bottom hatch when not having the pod tip over

#

Or maybe it is fine, because it does make more sense that the pod will lie on the seafloor. Is there any chance you can make the bottom hatch not usable?

rich sinew
#

I could, but that's just kind of annoying and wouldn't work the same way with the toppled pod

#

Better to move the non-toppling pod a little as well

quiet cobalt
#

I mean only when the bottom is lying on the seafloor

quiet cobalt
#

When on survival and you swim away so the pod stops sinking before it hits the bottom and you die, after respawning, the pod doesn't resume sinking.

rich sinew
#

Huh.

quiet cobalt
#

You know the pod stops sinking when 120m away. If you die while more than 120m away and respawn the pod stays where it stopped sinking

rich sinew
#

I figured I could save on processing by not constantly updating whenever you're super close to the pod. It'll fix itself within medium distance

quiet cobalt
#

Okay

rich sinew
#

Should be 15m ish away where it starts sinking again

quiet cobalt
#

Awesome

rich sinew
#

I did not consider that you might just die that early

quiet cobalt
#

Well, imma testing

rich sinew
#

And doing a great job at it

#

btw the sinking distance is experimental. I'm not sure if there's ever any settings that influence how far the draw distance goes but I put it right about at the edge of where stuff loads in, at 120m. 140 is already too much

quiet cobalt
#

120 is working wonderfully so far

#

When should I take damage at 207m deep?

#

Oh, nvm

#

I have that disabled, lol

quiet cobalt
#

Like the slow turn the pod does when you repair it

wide python
#

Mine just kept free floating propped it up with floaters

winged shale
# rich sinew Good point. I'm not a huge fan of the messaging in the top left but maybe there'...

The most diegetic way to add those warnings to the game would be to append them to the existing quantum explosion PDA voice messages (or have them as additional PDA voice messages which play immediately after the existing quantum explosion messages.) Then they'd appear in the blue-background boxed subtitles at the bottom of the screen, and come from an in-game source rather than just being text on the screen.

#

I don't know how practical to implement that would be though. Obviously you can't add new voice acting with the original voice actor, but sometimes in-game the spoken message and the subtitles don't line up (e.g. when you first approach the 500m Degasi base). I also don't know how much of a nightmare it would be interacting with the localization system.

wide python
#

The only modders that were given the pda’s voice was return of the ancients team right?

winged shale
#

Oh, were the PDA voice clips computer generated?

#

I mean, I know it sounds computer generated, but I assumed that was a clever voice actor.

#

Love the clang when the lifepod hits bottom 🙂

wide python
#

I miss the voice in bz

quiet cobalt
#

Radiation works guys

#

The timer works

winged shale
#

The bends mechanic is feeling more restrictive too.

#

(As in, that's a good thing 🙂 )

quiet cobalt
#

I made 10 pipes for the explosion, but forgot to take them, lol

rich sinew
winged shale
#

The subtitle text?

rich sinew
#

for now I'm planning to have a bit of a more on the nose system for things like the explosion. Like first time tutorials kinda thing. They already exist for the power drain on vehicle exit

rich sinew
winged shale
#

Well, it appears on your screen, and it's hard not to read text that appears on the screen, especially when there's a voice line playing in your ear saying the same thing 😅 But I take your point, experienced SN players could easily ignore them, and if the printed text diverged from the spoken lines they wouln't necessarily notice.

winged shale
rich sinew
#

That's a great perspective to keep in mind. But uh, I'm more inclined to making sure things work at all before I work on making them accessible tbh

winged shale
#

An excellent point, and eloquently made 😁

wide python
winged shale
#

Thank you @rich sinew!

quiet cobalt
#

Uhm. I just died of electrocution while surfacing to deploy my pump to go down into the JS cave at pod 17. What the hell guys?

winged shale
#

"They didn't warn us this might happen!"

quiet cobalt
#

There's not supposed to be electricity there

winged shale
#

But, yeah, very peculiar.

#

Maybe a way-off collider from inside the seamoth bay wreck?

quiet cobalt
#

Haven't ever experienced this

winged shale
#

No, me neither.

quiet cobalt
#

Oh well. Take two

winged shale
#

Is it possible that you died to something else (the bends?), but the cause of death is bugged? Did you get electricity FX?

quiet cobalt
#

I did get the FX

winged shale
#

Hmm

quiet cobalt
#

I wasn't rising too fast

winged shale
#

If it was a misplaced collider from inside the nearby wreck, the chances of hitting it would be small - it could be something that has been there forever and very few people have bumped into it?

#

Certainly that wreck has some weird geometry issues, with fragments appearing on top of the geometry but unscannable because they're clipped into the physics collider.

#

But something like 200m away from the wreck would be pretty bizarre.

wide python
#

Stray ampeel maybe I’ve had creatures in strange places with the increased detection range

quiet cobalt
#

Would have heard the ampeel sounds

winged shale
#

Were you playing on hardcore, or can you go back and check out the area again?

#

(in the same game)

quiet cobalt
#

Hardcore

winged shale
#

Yeah, ok.

#

shrug

#

Very frustrating to die to a bug

quiet cobalt
#

Don't know how long before death this would have been PlayerPos,-266,3701,-7,760764,21,87713

winged shale
#

Player position is logged out to the gamelog?

quiet cobalt
#

Every when?

winged shale
#

No idea - I was asking, does the game periodically log out the player's position to the log file?

quiet cobalt
#

Seems so

winged shale
#

I.e. is that where you got those coords from

#

Ok.

#

Well, we have Ramune's coordinates mod now, so it would be possible to go back to that position at least.

quiet cobalt
#

There are the last lines in the log: [Info : Unity Log] Heartbeat CSV, time s,4701,04, GC.GetTotalMemory MB,427,8008, OctNodes MB,0, CompactOctrees MB,16,625, CellManager MB,3,76721, ClipMapManager MB,0, GCCount,310, PlayerPos,-266,3701,-7,760764,21,87713 [Info : Nautilus] [DeathrunRemade] Saved save data to DeathrunRemade.json [Message:Deathrun Remade] Main Menu Message: Survived for 4 days in 1 death. [Message:Deathrun Remade] Main Menu Message: Died to Electrocution.

winged shale
#

Not sure what the last 3 coords for player pos are... possibly orientation, but the magnitude of the values seems weird for that. But presumably the first three values are XYZ?

#

Which means it logged your position at depth 7m down, assuming z is vertical offset in Subnautica

#

Were you about 7m down when you were setting up your pipes?

quiet cobalt
#

Yes

late vapor
#

Weird. You shouldn’t be 4000 units away from 0,0,0

winged shale
#

Woah.

#

My max safe depth suddenly went to from two digits to 200+ meters as I was ascending from about 100. Died very quickly.

#

That seems like a bug, but I have no idea how to reproduce it.

#

I had dipped down below 200m (and taken some crush damage) to grab air in the alien gate cave in the NW mushroom forest, and then was trying to ascend again.

quiet cobalt
#

3701 is way to the north in the void

winged shale
late vapor
#

That seems more probable

winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

Then those coords is from when I was in the kelp forest swimming towards pod 17

late vapor
#

Yeah I wouldn't really rely the heartbeat. It takes a while between logging

rich sinew
rich sinew
winged shale
# winged shale I'm not playing on hardcore, so I have a save from ~5mins previously. I'll try ...

Ok, the N2 min safe depth is definitely doing some strange things. I have a rebreather but no rad suit, so personal crush depth is 200m. Swim down in the NW mushroom forest, find the trench, and seaglide down (taking some crush damage) and through the alien water-barrier into air. Your min safe depth continues to get deeper even though you're no longer in water (so I think that's a bug).

#

But, yeah, it escalates in leaps and bounds as you ascend, shooting way past your current depth.

#

Which also seems wrong.

#

Hmm, another thing which I think is a bug - in the "Deathrun Statistics", some of my deaths have been recorded with a start location of "Random" rather than the actual location I started.

image.png
winged shale
#

@quiet cobalt I just had the same electrocution bug. Completely different location - I was swimming to the surface to get my floating air pump in the east-west strip of safe shallows south of the NW mushroom forest. I swam to the surface, saw the electical FX, and died to electrocution.

#

(Well, I guess not completely different location, since Lifepod 17/Seamoth Bay wreck is just south of that area)

quiet cobalt
#

I’m thinking this must be a Deathrun Remade bug then

winged shale
#

It does seem like it, although I can't imagine what might be causing it.

#

I've gone back to the area (not on hardcore, as mentioned) so I'll see if I can reproduce

#

Ok, it happened again in the same place (I knew roughly where I died, and the small pile of stuff I dropped on death marked the spot), swimming up towards my floating airpump. N2 min depth was zero/gone, definitely not the bends.

quiet cobalt
#

So, we know it seems to be in certain spots

#

Try directly above the JS entrance at pod 17, if you want

winged shale
#

Seems to be related to approaching the surface, and we were both doing stuff with floating airpumps

quiet cobalt
#

My pump wasn’t in my hands yet

#

I think

winged shale
#

Happened again, just from surfacing, didn't do airpump stuff

quiet cobalt
#

Same spot?

winged shale
#

I have a save where I'm in the right spot, you just have to swim up. Happened on a restart of the game - start game, load save, swim up

#

Yes, same spot.

#

I'll try moving around a bit.

#

But I might backup this save first.

#

They're saved in the SN install folder under steam, yeah?

quiet cobalt
#

Subnautica\SNAppdata

brave merlin
#

game is only hard in the beginning

#

any game is supposed to be harder in the end rather than the beginning

winged shale
#

Ok, I've 7zipped the save folder, so should hopefully be able to reproduce at will. I don't know if it would be much use to Raqzas without my specific other mods...

quiet cobalt
#

Hey, I’ve died a few times to a Sea dragon

winged shale
#

Yeah, the game definitely has some challenges as you progress, but original Deathrun's changes make the start super challenging and the later game... somewhat challenging.

quiet cobalt
#

We should compare mods

winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

Okay

brave merlin
winged shale
#

@rich sinew Ray and I only had one mod in common, and after disabling that mod I still die to electricity ascending from my saved spot. So as bizarre as it sounds, it seems to be Deathrun Remade doing it. FYI both of us are running fresh games started with pre3.

#

Let me know if it would be helpful for me to send you my save folder where you just load in, swim gently to the surface, and die to electricity.

#

(Could sell it as a new feature of Deathrun Remade - struck by lightning if you get too close to the surface 😅 )

#

I need to go out soon, but when I get back I'll try setting up SN with just this mod, Nautilus and Tobey's BepInEx and see if the save still exhibits the same issue.

quiet cobalt
#

@winged shale Are you still before the explosion?

winged shale
#

Huh, so I wonder if it's something to do with surface radiation

#

Like, the mod does surface radiation by modifying your distance from radiation ground zero when the game queries it. When I approach the surface, my effective distance approaches zero... perhaps the game divides something by that value, and it's becoming a crazy high value and somehow triggering electricity.

#

Yeah, I just swam away from that spot (without messing with mods yet) and died in a different place. It might be something as simple as "once radiation progress gets above a certain value, you'll be electrocuted if you get close to the surface"

#

I'll still try to reproduce with minimal mods when I get back.

winged shale
#

@rich sinew Ok, confirmed with only Deathrun Remade, Nautilus and BepInEx installed. Post-Aurora explosion, electricity will kill me whenever I ascend above 3m depth, as long as I'm also somewhat close to the Aurora. I can swim on the surface in the NW mushroom forest (where my lifepod landed) without it happening, but if I ascend over the south half of the safe shallows south of there, I get zapped. Ray got zapped over the Jellyshroom cave entrance near Lifepod 17, which is even closer to the Aurora than that. FYI, surface radiation was down to around 30m deep.

winged shale
#

3m still seems to be the magic value where I get zapped even when surface radiation is down to 40m deep.

quiet cobalt
#

“Ionizing radiations convert water molecules into electrically charged water molecules. The radiations attain this by removing electrons from the neutral water molecules. This effect leaves the water molecule active and can easily interact with other substances to form different compounds.”

rich sinew
#

Thanks for the super detailed investigation, I’ll try and see what’s going on

wide python
#

Also what is with the radiation effects when going into caves?

rich sinew
#

what kind of caves?

wide python
#

Safe shallows

#

Got lucky and got the vanilla spawn

#

The lifepod sinking actually made it easier since it was closer to the surface with the bends

winged shale
#

I'm not convinced spawing in the safe shallows is particularly lucky, in Deathrun... it makes surviving the Aurora explosion, and dealing with surface radiation afterwards, notably harder than having a lifepod below the max radiation depth, especially one which also has ready access to depths of 100m+ (like the oddly-named "Very Hard" spawn location, which is one of my favourite starting spots)

#

Also, I haven't noticed any "radiation effects when going into caves", not sure what you mean by that.

#

The battery recycling recipe only gives 1 copper ore, rather than 2

quiet cobalt
#

2 was somewhat generous

wide python
winged shale
# quiet cobalt 2 was somewhat generous

It's an interesting point. There are different ways to make a game harder. Increasing the grind makes a game harder (in that it takes longer to achieve things), but it's not necessarily a very interesting way to do it. So while I'd agree that recycling 3 dead batteries and getting back 2 copper is somewhat generous, being less generous just results in making you grind limestone collection for more copper, which doesn't feel very interesting/challenging to me. In fact, I'd argue that getting back 2 copper from 3 batteries actually makes recycling the batteries quite satisfying.

#

I feel that Deathrun is a masterclass in ways to make the game harder in clever ways, like when you're faced with the dilemma of e.g. needing aerogel to make the Seamoth - it's almost a paradoxical puzzle, "how do I survive getting deep enough to get what I need to make the Seamoth without a Seamoth?" You can solve that puzzle in a number of different ways - ||you can brute force it by making extra airtanks, or know the map well enough to know where you can acquire the ingredients without needing to go super deep or where brain corals are, or you can make a staging base to resupply at,|| and there are probably other ways too. What the mod doesn't do is simply say "building this thing takes 10 times the ingredients it does in vanilla - there you go, hard difficulty achieved!"

#

There are times where Deathrun does appear to force more grind, like increasing the fragments you need to scan for blueprints. But I'd argue that isn't quite the same as just saying "you need more of the same stuff," because fragments are generally found in wrecks, and wrecks are generally interesting and challenging spaces to reach and explore in their own right.

#

Anyway, sorry for the long-winded ramble, but yeah - while I agree that the recycling recipe was generous, I think it was a deliberate design decision in keeping with the mod's philosophy.

quiet cobalt
#

You are going to grind out limestone for titanium anyway. The more limestone you have to grind, the more you are going to evade crash fish, stalkers and sand sharks. Especially the thinner the spread of limestone gets around your pod/base.

winged shale
#

Well, whatever. Either the battery recycling recipe is accidentally wrong, in which case I'm reporting a bug, or it's a deliberate change to the balance of the mod, in which case my comment is not new information.

quiet cobalt
#

Fair, we are allowed to discuss balance and that is what occurred

winged shale
#

Huh, something else strange: the Aurora explosion countdown was shifted to the left side of the screen by this mod (nice), but the actual Sunbeam countdown is still in the default spot on the right hand side.

#

(That's without the "overlap fix" mod in both cases - I removed that mod because with it active, the Aurora explosion countdown wasn't visible at all for me)

#

And an update on the electrocution bug: now that my surface radiation is down to 56 meters (out of 60 max I have it set to) I now get zapped at closer to 4m from the surface, instead of 3. It really does seem to be something to do with the fraction of player_depth / radiation_depth getting below some threshold.

wide python
#

I mean the events weren’t supposed to overlap in the first place ones early game ones mid game

winged shale
#

Ah, sorry - the events don't overlap. It's just that the default position on the screen that the countdown element appears overlaps with your pinned recipes, and we discussed shifting it to the LHS of the screen (there's actually an "overlap fix" mod which does that). Raqzas incorporated the "overlap fix" functionality to shift the countdown to the LHS directly into this mod, but it seems to only be affecting the Aurora countdown and not the Sunbeam countdown.

quiet cobalt
#

Yeah I had the overlap mod uninstalled and promptly installed it once the Sunbeam countdown started

#

The electrocution bug is so odd, I’m very curious as to why it is happening

winged shale
#

Yeah, indeed.

#

The mod is telling base Subnautica that the player's distance to the drive core is closer than it really is in order to get the effect of surface radiation, but it would be super weird for the base game to have an explicit check to say "if you're too close to the drive core you get electrocuted." Like, why would they have coded that? But that's my current best theory. Really interested to see if Raqzas can get to the bottom of it.

quiet cobalt
#

Ah, so maybe you are getting hit by some of the electricity that is present in the Aurora

winged shale
#

It's not giving the game an actual 3D position for the player on the Aurora though, it's just the "distance" function that's being overridden. And the details of the Aurora interior wouldn't even be loaded if you're more than 140 meters away, would it?

#

(I mean, who knows, clearly something weird is happening)

quiet cobalt
#

Not sure how these things are done

winged shale
#

Yeah.

#

@wide python Are you still playing your game using this mod? Are you getting the electrocution bug when you try to surface post-Aurora explosion?

wide python
#

I’m on holiday

#

I’ll definitely play it when I get back tho

winged shale
#

Cool - enjoy your holiday!

rich sinew
rich sinew
#

although, thinking about it there's really not much point to, uh, not shifting it as well?

quiet cobalt
#

Thing is, according to Rob, if the mod that moves the timers is installed then the explosion timer doesn’t appear

rich sinew
rich sinew
#

I'll make the sunbeam countdown affected by the window position settings as well, that'll solve it

#

and be more consistent. Plus, you won't get stuck with a timer that blocks in-game messages

quiet cobalt
#

Awesome

#

Can you block that mod from loading?

rich sinew
#

theoretically yes but that requires writing a different type of plugin

quiet cobalt
#

Maybe easier to just mention the incompatibility in the description

#

And redundancy

rich sinew
#

yup. I don't really want to get into that whole mess of starting to block other mods

#

Ray while I have you here, what kind of interaction would you like to see between deathrun and randomiser?

quiet cobalt
#

Adding the Deathrun items shouldn’t be an issue now for me right, because they will be both Nautilus

rich sinew
#

yeah, no more fighting

quiet cobalt
#

Should be fine then

#

Would be awesome if Randomiser could have and option for early recipes to be biome based as opposed to depth based, but that is too much to ask

rich sinew
#

it'll take a lot for that to happen. It is one of my eventual goals though

#

might get back to that after deathrun is in a good position

quiet cobalt
#

I’m having fun with how I’m using them together now anyway

#

Oh, I don’t know what happens when you teleport from deep to shallow like with the elevator. Will fixing the elevator issue resolve potential issues with teleporters(alien arches)? Haven’t actually used one yet.

rich sinew
#

there's no special handling for it so it will definitely give you the bends

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
#

Oh, you found the culprit so quickly

rich sinew
#

My original patch applied to all variants. Apparently some things inside the Aurora use this way of dealing damage too. I'm assuming it's some of the sparking equipment that zaps you when you get too close. Since my patch overwrote their distance calculation too you got zapped near the surface if any such sparking equipment was currently loaded

quiet cobalt
#

Jeepers. I mean, how were you to know.

winged shale
#

Oh, of course! That makes so much sense. Brilliant. So Ray really was being zapped by the electricity inside the Seamoth Bay wreck when he was over the Lifepod 17 Jellyshroom cave entrance 🤣

#

And I was getting zapped in the southern half of the safe shallows just north of that wreck, so I was too.

winged shale
winged shale
#

But there is one arch pair in particular where both arches are underwater, so that could be a problem...

#

||"Yay, I'm cured! Now to just pop through this portal to turn off the Enforcement Platform" Teleports from ~1400m below to ~100m below, instantly explodes 😅 ||

rich sinew
wide python
winged shale
#

Assuming you can make the bends inactive in air, that just leaves the underwater arch pair as being a problem, and I had a thought which might help with that case: perhaps have a special case in the Sea Emperor's tank where the bends code treats the player's depth as being relative to the surface of the water in the tank, rather than the player's distance from actual sealevel. Don't mess with the player's actual depth in the UI, but the bends min safe depth just trends towards a value which is based on a depth which is only a short distance below the surface.

#

That actually works in-fiction (the tank is only connected to the outside ocean via pipes with pumped water, so it could be at any pressure), and from memory the arch in the tank is approximately the same distance below the surface of the tank as the receiving arch is below actual sealevel, so teleporting between those two arches while underwater would have roughly equivalent "safe depth" values.

wide python
#

Seems like it would be very hard to code but I mean the Seamoth works in it so you could try steal code from that

#

Or even just see how it might work

winged shale
#

I'm guessing "inside a vehicle" is one of the special cases that the game has for its "is the player in water or air" testing.

#

Lets think: above sealevel, inside the escape pod, piloting a powered vehicle, inside a cyclops, inside a powered base but above the level of any flooding, inside an alien water-barrier forcefield thing, inside the Enforcement Platform.

#

(Except of course in Deathrun the sealevel check isn't sufficient to determine if you can breathe)

#

Actually, a simpler fix for the underwater arch issue: simply reset the nitrogen/bends stuff to zero whenever a player teleports through an arch.

#

Oh, BTW @rich sinew another issue I noticed - compared to original Deathrun, the Nitrogen purging ability of boomerang fish and medkits is much more effective in this mod. In the original, they only reset things part way, but in this mod they seem to reset your min depth and N2 to zero.

#

In general, would you prefer issues we notice to be reported here, or should we create issues on your GitHub?

winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

I feel like medkits purged more than boomerangs

winged shale
#

Hmm, you may be right.

#

I'll be heading off to work soon, but if no-one else does it first, I might try to do some experiments with the original mod later to check how it actually worked between the two items.

quiet cobalt
#

Won't be me. I have to go to bed and then it is a full day of work

winged shale
#

Ok, faster to check the original mod's code 😁. Boomerangs and Magmarangs did this: DeathRunPlugin.saveData.nitroSave.safeDepth /= 2; and medkits did this: DeathRunPlugin.saveData.nitroSave.safeDepth /= 2;

#

So same effect, it seems.

#

Also, I also saw how the original handled the teleport arches:

    /**
     * When player teleports, don't give him bends.
     */
    [HarmonyPatch(typeof(PrecursorTeleporter))]
    [HarmonyPatch("BeginTeleportPlayer")]
    internal class PrecursorTeleporterPatcher
    {
        [HarmonyPrefix]
        public static bool Prefix(ref PrecursorTeleporter __instance)
        {
            if (DeathRunPlugin.saveData.nitroSave.safeDepth > 10)
            {
                DeathRunPlugin.saveData.nitroSave.safeDepth = 10;
            }
            return true;
        }
    }
rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
#

boomerang's purging effect also gets worse as they rot

rich sinew
winged shale
winged shale
winged shale
#

Or some function of depth, anyway. If you want the fish to be more effective than a medkit in the shallows, you could have min(flatAmount, depth/3) or something. But boomerangs are abundant in the shallows, you can easily snatch a replacement on the go if you use one, so I'm not sure you want to also make them more effective at mitigating N2 than a medkit when < 200m deep.

quiet cobalt
#

I did find it a bit disappointing that they lost their purging effect when cooked

winged shale
#

Bladderfish giving you O2 is the same, only works when raw. I don't know why, but I didn't even consider that they might keep their special properties when cooked.

#

I think that even if they work cooked/cured in this mod, I'm not sure I'd do it - raw boomerangs are just so easy to acquire, and if I'm in danger of dying from the bends/suffocating unless I can ascend quickly, I'm not really fussed about the food and water consequences of eating the fish raw instead of cooked or cured.

quiet cobalt
#

If my pod is 300m deep from using randomiser and I have spare power and am a bit low on bladder fish to have made enough water and provide oxygen while ascending, I might cook up a few before ascending

winged shale
#

Yeah, for sure, if you know you're about to use them.

#

It might be interesting to play with that mod which makes fish die if they're in your inventory and you leave the water - that would give you an incentive to cure them at least, rather than always having a couple of live boomerangs in your inventory.

winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

I cheat my using Accelerated Start to give myself a radiation suit

winged shale
#

Ah, fair enough 🙂

#

That would be pretty awesome if you could pull it off without doing that 🙂

#

Assuming randomiser starts your pod at the surface...

quiet cobalt
#

Maybe with a few medkits you can

#

Well, the pod starts at the surface and sinks because of Deathrun

winged shale
#

I think at 100m below crush depth you're taking 64 damage every 3 seconds or something, that would require a lot of medkits.

quiet cobalt
#

Yep. I’m happy with the accelerated start option I chose

#

Still makes it extremely hard

winged shale
#

I bet 🙂

rich sinew
#

Like their numbers go down and everything

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
rich sinew
#

Potentially? You can definitely keep a live boomerang in your inventory for like ten minutes and watch the stats drop. I had to put in a grace period just for nitrogen so it wouldn’t decrease immediately

quiet cobalt
#

Interesting

#

Do they “rot” everywhere except when in water?

#

Inventory, pod storage and lockers?

#

Also, when they are put back into water do they “unrot”?

rich sinew
#

No that’s the thing. They start rotting as soon as they spawn. Fish out in the open water rot and if you catch two fish from the same batch far apart you can see their decreased values are still identical

quiet cobalt
#

Hmm

#

Thanks for adding the grace period

#

Do cooking a very “rotten” one give you the same state cooked fish as cooking a “fresh” one?

#

I can probably test these things myself

rich sinew
#

From what I can tell cooking resets the rot timer because a cooked fish is a completely different item

#

The values you get are also higher so you notice the rotting more quickly

quiet cobalt
#

Thought as much, thanks

wild igloo
#

my deathrun is not working right, the game thinks im in a flooded base/alien containment 100% of the time (i think) and my suit is an overlayed model of all of them

📎 Player.log
#

plugins folder btw

Screenshot_2466.png
#

the lifepod sinking roots me in place, ive played legacy deathrun a lot so i know this does not usually happen

#

unstucking just kicks me to the seafloor as if i were on land

quiet cobalt
#

Some weirdness in that folder

#

I’ll see if I dissect it for you and straighten it out. Will post suggestions in help&support

#

Nvm. I think it is best if you delete your BepInEx folder. Download Vortex and let it install mods for you, as you move things around and put them in the wrong places.

#

I think your main issue is likely caused by an outdated nautilus

#

But yeah, definitely rather have Vortex install things correctly for you

winged shale
#

Is it worth editing the "known issues" for prerelease 3 in #🐞┃mod-test-builds message with the newly found issues? Specifically with the electrocution bug, since it's kind of a big one ("Player can be electrocuted when approaching the surface within 140 meters of the Aurora or a wreck with sparking electricity")

rich sinew
#

Maybe not the issue as such but I'll add a link to the issues page and the discussion channel here

winged shale
#

Ah, yeah, good call.

wild igloo
quiet cobalt
wild igloo
#

ok

#

reinstalled everything with vortex, got new nautilus even though i just got it yesterday, still bugged

quiet cobalt
#

Drop your LogOutput.log and describe what is wrong

wild igloo
#

i completely forgot where that is

quiet cobalt
#

BepInEx folder

wild igloo
#

as previously mentioned, my suit is an overlaid model of all of them
in the lifepod, my speed is about double, and in the water i swim really slowly, and whn i try to look down and swim up, i move right, i bob off the water's surface, and i don't lose oxygen
when entering a base, it puts me in the base swimming and trying to exit plays the entry animation

📎 LogOutput.log
rich sinew
#

That looks like you get an exception pretty much every single frame about some kind of missing type? No clue which mod could be doing any of that

wild igloo
#

idk either

Screenshot_2469.png
#

plugins folder again

#

all i know is i wanted to play deathrun, and when i play without deathrun everything is fine

rich sinew
#

you're not the first to send me bug reports about issues that seemingly make no sense but occur only with deathrun installed

#

it has me stumped, quite honestly

#

at least with not losing oxygen I know it's probably because deathrun didn't load properly. There's one exception about recipes in there. What do your settings look like?

wild igloo
#

i call the experience Hypercasual™️

quiet cobalt
# wild igloo idk either

It’s better to keep the mods in their folders. Vortex wouldn’t have installed DeathRun Remade and Nautilus like this

#

I mean if more than one of those mods that have their dlls lying loose like that had files with the same name in an Assets or Config folder then two mods are sharing that file and it wouldn’t be the correct file for one of them. Some mods also look for their assets in a hard coded location.

#

Keep the mods in their folder. They are packaged in a folder for a reason

#

IDK why you didn’t use Vortex to install them all

#

My suggestion is to close Vortex. Delete your BepInEx\plugins folder. Then reinstall BepInEx first and then all the mods with Vortex. Don’t attempt to install manually, as you do that incorrectly. Here are instructions on installing mods through Vortex #❓┃help-and-support message

#

Apologies Raqzas. All of this should have been handled in the help&support channel

north cloud
#

idk if anyone else has had this issue but for some reason i can not interact with the cuddlefish i cant play with it or tell it to stay it just follows me with no ui other then its name.

(also sorry if this is the wrong spot for bugs i tried lookin twice to make sure)

quiet cobalt
north cloud
#

i believe so however i only seem to have this issue on one save out of the two i currently have the one that is survival has the issue the hardcore one is fine

#

idk if it just buged randomly on the one save or is an issue figured i bring it up

quiet cobalt
#

Don’t want to clog this channel with something that might not be caused by this mod

rich sinew
# wild igloo a bit like this

Figured it out. Deathrun crashes if any cost-related setting is on Normal. In your case it's the batteries that do it

quiet cobalt
#

Just an update on Kyzer Wolfy’s issue: “@quiet cobalt sorry for the at but wanted to update u ment to do so earlier but i figured out the issue that save had sml load at the creation of the world still where the other save never had it I make 3 new worlds on suvival hardcore n creative n spawned in the cuddlefish and all was good and had interactions. Again sorry for late responds”

rich sinew
#

Really starting to look like smlhelper is turning into an incompatibility

quiet cobalt
#

Yes. It is causing issues all over the place when used alongside Nautilus. Thankfully it seems more and more modders are updating their mods to Nautilus

winged shale
#

The nitrogen purging items don't seem to reset the "ascending too fast" variables, meaning that you quickly run into trouble again. I don't have a good sense of how exactly it works, but if I'm ascending from say 200m deep towards the surface, and use a relatively fresh boomerang to drop my N2 to basically zero, it comes shooting back down again as I continue to ascend at a ~45° angle and often significantly overshoots my current depth.

#

Hah - is it possible for the Aurora explosion to re-damage the lifepod? That would be cool if so. I know there's a bug where sometimes loading a game results in the secondary systems being damaged again, but I just left my lifepod while it was intact in order to dive down below 100m for the explosion, and when I returned the panel is damaged again.

fleet moth
#

Believe so

winged shale
#

Sweet 😁

wild igloo
#

im playing with surface radiation off to let me have a somewhat casual experience, and im experiencing the radiation hud effect in some weird places nowhere near the zone

#

like on both islands, some safe shallow or creepvine caves, or by the sparse reef wreck

#

also by that one wreck in the grassy plats that looks like a sideways U

#

like this

Screenshot_2475.png
#

it never harms me but its still kinda annoying

winged shale
#

The boomerang N2 "decay" is a cool idea, but I'm not sure the current implementation is working as intended. Every boomerang I catch in my current game is equally "rotten" - their displayed N2 purging value has been the same - and they've all declined in lockstep through the whole playthrough (2 hours in), across all the biomes I've visited. It seems hard to believe that they all spawned at the same time...

#

Also it's kind of annoying that they all add 25 to my nitrogen now. They're still living boomerangs, so they should have some useful effect on your N2, even if it's not the full -100. It's not like they're actually rotten, like food that you cook and then keep for a long time, they're just living fish that apparently spawned a long time ago.

winged shale
#

Huh - the ||air inside the Aurora is not breathable|| after repairing the drive core. I guess that's not implemented yet?

quiet cobalt
#

Should it be immediately or ever breathable though, doesn't really make sense that it would be?

#

I know it was in the original Deathrun, but doesn't quite feel right.

winged shale
#

Just reporting it 🙂 The original even had it as one of the hints on the start screen - "Aurora is easier to explore AFTER you repair its radiation leaks."

#

I don't play with the optional challenges (or at least, I haven't yet), but I imagine that the challenge where you can't use an airpump within cooee of the crash would be pretty painful to complete without that element.

#

The original didn't try to make the whole experience an unrelenting slog - you got to have nice things occasionally as well.

#

Like eventually finding or building lithium batteries and getting rid of the radiation and thence finally getting to enjoy vanilla-level use out of your tools (hint hint 😉 )

#

With me not doing the challenge and therefore being able to use airpumps on the Aurora, the consequence of not having the air become breathable was that I just had to keep running back to a flooded section periodically to get air... back to the PRAWN bay to do the living quarters, and back to the area under the cargo bay when I progressed to the upper sections (I entered the Aurora interior through the lower door, even though it means having to cut through two doors). Not particularly difficult or challenging, just kind of annoying.

#

I mean, speaking of realism, why can't you just use the airpump on dry land? It doesn't need the water to operate, it just floats because there's no air below water.

rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
#

Unless repairing the generator restores internal power and allows some kind of air filters to re-activate. Hm.

winged shale
#

I've always assumed that the justification was something like that - internal air filtering/generation is still active (the wreck still has power for doors, lights, consoles etc), and stopping the leak allows it to quickly clear the air.

#

Making the air breathable so quickly may be arguably unrealistic (I don't know what a "quantum detonation" might be, so I don't know what variety of radiation the Aurora is supposed to be emitting), but it's really the last chance to grant that benefit. Repairing the leaks also unlocks the filter chip, so soon after you return to base you've probably got the filter chip and can breathe everywhere above sea level anyway.

#

(Please don't take away the filter chip)

rich sinew
#

(I'm taking away the filter chip)

rich sinew
winged shale
#

I mean, there's a good chance you'll need to return to the Aurora, because putting up with the radiation until the message from Alterra gets through isn't something I'd choose to do willingly. But I agree, making the player leave and come back would be annoying.

quiet cobalt
#

With the pump not working in the Aurora setting, it is super challenging to repair the core while having 3 ultra high capacity tanks. That is arguably the least number of tanks you can do it with.

winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

So, the air being breathable immediately is very handy

#

If it isn’t the case while playing with that setting one will probably need to take 6 tanks and have a vehicle or a base(in the case of also having the No vehicle challenge enabled)next to the entrance to the Aurora.

quiet cobalt
#

Actually, the filter chip unlocking when the core is fixed fits in nicely with the thought that the Aurora’s air filtration kicks in when the core is repaired and the PDA then is able to assimilate the recipe from gathering information from that system.

#

In original Deathrun the chip also unlocked when you unlock the Cyclops

#

So, if that is reimplemented one can build the chip before going to the Aurora on those settings without needing the tanks or base

winged shale
quiet cobalt
#

Yeah, Cattlesquat probably did that with those settings in mind

#

Found this out thanks to Randomiser

winged shale
#

FWIW, to avoid issues with the bends in the Enforcement Platform elevator, I made these modifications to NitrogenHandler.cs

image.png
#

Without the filter chip, it adjusts your safe depth like you were underwater, but you don't take damage if you go above it:

image.png
#

With the chip, it treats you as depth 0 when in a base/vehicle/precursor structure, so your N2 clears.

winged shale
#

You could potentially handle out-of-water without the chip more leniently too, like float currentDepth = purgeNitrogen ? 0 : isOutOfWater ? player.GetDepth() / 2 : player.GetDepth(); or something.

winged shale
#

Err, the option for "Vehicle Costs: Deathrun (alternate costs)" seems to be missing. As CattleSquat said in the Deathrun README: "[Note: some found my initial choice of Seamoth ingredients "immersion breaking", which is fair -- so I have provided "alternative DeathRun costs"]"

#

I finally got to the point with this mod of crafting a Seamoth, and saw that it was the recipe with plant seeds.

#

Oh, is the "Kharaa" vehicle cost difficulty the "Deathrun (alternate costs)" equivalent?

#

Yes, it seems so. Yay, I managed to edit the Deathrun JSON file in my save slot and switch to the alternate recipe.

winged shale
#

Woof, draining 11 energy at 9m down. The original was free to exit at anything < 10m, I think?

#

Ah, but the deeper energy costs seem about right.

#

As far as my gut feeling, at least.

#

Err, I just bumped into a sandshark with my seamoth at 100% health and it exploded.

#

Wasn't even going particularly fast.

late vapor
#

Do you have the hull reinforcement mod? That had a bug with collision damage

#

I updated it a bit ago to fix it

#

@winged shale

winged shale
winged shale
#

It's a bit... alarming? Distracting? That at shallow depths but with 100% N2, the min depth GUI can show you the "You're in danger!" colours when you're not even moving. The safe depth equalizes to a value within 10m of your actual depth.

image.png
winged shale
winged shale
#

This seems to be a bug - the crush depth warning colours are happening when I'm inside a base 150m deep (but I'm not taking crush damage).

image.png
#

But not when I'm outside

image.png
#

(Confirmed happening in pre-release3 - I reverted to the pre-release3 version to ensure it wasn't anything I'd introduced with my tinkering)

quiet cobalt
#

It also happens when in your pod when it is deep

#

Luckily just a display issue

winged shale
#

Huh, the usual way to unlock the nano decompression module blueprint didn't work. Is that not implemented yet, or has the method to unlock it been changed?

quiet cobalt
#

Unlocked with Cyclops, right?

winged shale
#

No, in the original you unlock the nano decompression module by ||scanning the giant skull surrounded by the alien probes, outside the alien facility with the orange tablet forcefield.||

#

That's the vehicle module which reduces the power cost of exiting the vehicle at depth, and purges nitrogen when you're inside.

quiet cobalt
#

That cannot be, as I never scan that and always unlocked the module

winged shale
# quiet cobalt That cannot be, as I never scan that and always unlocked the module

Ok, looks like there are three things you can scan to unlock it. From the original mod's source:
||```
if ((entryData.key == TechType.CaveSkeleton) || (entryData.key == TechType.GhostRayBlue) || (entryData.key == TechType.GhostRayRed))
{
if (!KnownTech.Contains(DeathRunPlugin.decoModule.TechType))
{
DeathRunPlugin.saveData.playerSave.setCue("DecoModule", 5);
//PDAEncyclopedia.Add("DecoModule", true);
KnownTech.Add(DeathRunPlugin.decoModule.TechType, true);
}
}

late vapor
winged shale
late vapor
#

yeah no problem

winged shale
#

I'm not sure what version I was on, because in the Subnautica Mod Manager it still comes up as 1.0.0, but upgrading to the latest fixed it.

late vapor
#

Oh probably because I forgot to update the version in the dll. I'm pretty bad at remembering to do that

winged shale
#

It's an easy thing to miss.

quiet cobalt
late vapor
#

@rich sinew are you planning on releasing the suit API with the next release?

winged shale
#

The fact that @quiet cobalt and I had different methods to unlock the nano decompression chip makes me think that the ways you unlock the Deathrun-specific blueprints is a potentially interesting space for randomization, @rich sinew. I don't know if you could expose such internal elements of Deathrun to the Randomizer mod in a modular way, but it could always be controlled from the Deathrun mod settings directly.

#

To unlock the nano decompression module, you might need to scan some specific lifeform from the Lost River, or one of the two fossil skulls, or the skull of the Sea Dragon which broke the Disease Research Facility... and that's not to mention all the unique things inside the DRF itself. Or it could be tied to accessing an alien data terminal in the DRF, or the terminal behind the orange-tablet forcefield, or scanning some of the exhibits in there. Lots of options to randomise between. You could even have low-probability things from other biomes... scanning a crabsquid or blood crawler for it could give you access earlier, while having it only available from life in the Inactive Lava Zone would force you to go painfully deep without one.

#

The filter chip blueprint could likewise be randomized between the current method, or scanning something (perhaps you could get it from scanning a surface-dwelling plant, so the player has to actually venture onto land without the chip). Or it could be tied to the terminal in the captain's quarters (sent in the data package from Alterra, based on the environmental data that Captain Hollister sent them), forcing the player to wait for the door code radio message (if they also randomize the door codes).

#

And so on with the deeper reinforced suits, and the specialty O2 tanks. Their current unlock triggers are all fairly arbitrary anyway, so randomizing them wouldn't really hurt immersion.

solar zodiac
#

Do pipes have a depth limit in the mod?
Trying to build a pipe down to the jellyshroom cave, but once I hit 90 meters it won’t let me place them any deeper, just forces them to be placed sideways

winged shale
#

I think pipe placement may have become worse in 2.0. In Legacy you used to be able to have pipes come down and inside wrecks, but it really doesn't like placing the pipe that goes through the opening into wrecks any more.

winged shale
#

Tell you what, the new implementation of the N2 mechanics are much more pressing (heh) at greater depths. The original's implementation (which I believe was largely just enabling the base game's disabled system?) was kind of irrelevant below a certain point, because the gap between your depth and the min safe depth became so large. I just ascended from free diving to the Lost River, the crystalline sulphur and nickel I needed for the Mk2 and Mk3 Seamoth depth modules clutched in my hands, dodging Warpers and Ampeels and sucking down medkits to manage my N2, and it was tense 😁

#

(Ascending to my Seamoth parked just above 300m)

#

The way the min safe depth can shoot from less than your current depth to 100+ meters below you in one "tick" is the one thing I feel needs toning down (perhaps), but overall I feel it's really working well.

rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
rich sinew
late vapor
solar zodiac
#

is random surface electrocution a bug or a feature of the mod?

image.png
quiet cobalt
#

Bug

#

Will be fixed with the next release

solar zodiac
#

i see

#

it's also covering the Aurora, to the point that stepping on the aurora kills you instantly

quiet cobalt
#

Maybe have radiation disabled for now

solar zodiac
#

seems like that fixed it, thanks

full tree
#

#❓┃help-and-support²-archive message

winged shale
#

Ah, yes, it is, according to your log file. Cool.

#

It might be this issue: #1160113039182405642 message

#

The mod has some issues if any of your difficulty settings are on "Normal".

#

But if that isn't it, Raqzas or Ray are more likely to be able to help you.

quiet cobalt
#

It happens specifically when any crafting cost setting is set to normal

rich sinew
#

Even more specifically, it’s just the batteries. Just fixed that bug the other day. It’s battery costs that crash on Normal

quiet cobalt
#

Oh, okay. I only tested on batteries to be honest😊

rich sinew
#

You hit the crucial part then😆

#

I’m hoping to fix the rest of the issues and get a final test build out for this weekend. If all goes well it’ll be a Halloween full release peeper

full tree
rich sinew
#

If Esper were still here she'd start a lecture about null values in languages and she'd be right

rich sinew
#

Has anyone had a run display as "Random" startpoint in the highscore menu with a run they started on prerelease 3?

quiet cobalt
#

Rob did

#

Or was that an earlier build

rich sinew
#

That's the thing, I can get it to work with saves from earlier prereleases (which makes sense, there was no fix for it back then) but not on pre 3

winged shale
#

Since you made a fix for it, can you say what sort of circumstances could trigger the bug?

rich sinew
#

It was all runs that started with random starts. All of them would always display Random as their start point. Since the information is lost after spawn the only time to grab that information is, well, on spawn, i.e. at the beginning of a new run. That's why old runs would still show up as Random rather than the chosen starts

#

I checked my own stats and while I did have some faulty runs showing up as Random starts they were all completed back in pre-2

winged shale
#

So if the bug occurs, it is locked in immediately after spawn, it doesn't care about e.g. the circumstances of your death. Cool. I guess I must have started the game where I had the bug in pre2 then, even though I died in pre3.

rich sinew
#

Yes. By the time you die the information about where you started is no longer available, since it only exists at the very beginning of the game. Pre-2 did not record that information so any runs from that time will not have it, even if you upgrade to pre-3.

winged shale
#

Makes sense.

#

I think you can mark that bug as fixed then.

rich sinew
#

We could potentially verify it with your highscore data, so long as you died at some point during pre-2 on those runs

winged shale
#

Sure, I can send the file to you when I get back on my gaming laptop (at work ATM)

rich sinew
#

Nice, thank you. It'll be DeathrunStats.sav in the mod's folder

winged shale
#

I did start by importing my existing original Deathrun stats file, though.

winged shale
#

Note that I did edit that file a while back to to remove my Electrocution deaths.

winged shale
#

@rich sinew re: your commit "Reduce tool power consumption" https://github.com/tinyhoot/Deathrun-Remade/commit/4ea0b827d5c6d9bd39749682023d0f264fc70f1c Your change halves the power consumption of tools inside radiation as well as outside. In original Deathrun, tool power consumption was 1x outside radiation but 5x inside radiation (on Deathrun difficulty), making your acid batteries melt like wax in a fire. Going to the Aurora required careful preparation, bringing 6-8 fully charged acid batteries to not run out before you reach the guaranteed lithium battery locations.

GitHub
Reduce tool power consumption. · tinyhoot/Deathrun-Remade@4ea0b82
#

With your change, Deathrun Remade on Deathrun difficulty would have tool usage 1.5x outside radiation but only 2.5x inside radiation. That's actually less that the 3x outside-radiation tool power consumption of prereleases 1-3

#

Your ConsumeMixinEnergy method already calls IsInRadiation to pass in the flag to ModifyConsumeEnergy, so you could easily only apply the /= 2f modifier if they're not in radiation.

# 
bool radiation = IsInRadiation(__instance.transform);
amount = ModifyConsumeEnergy(amount, radiation);
if (!radiation && __instance.GetComponent<Pickupable>())
    amount /= 2f;
rich sinew
#

Pre-4 will bring a lot of the balance changes we talked about at various points, this being one of them

rich sinew
# winged shale

So looking at this, you have two saves with Random startpoints. One completed in pre-2 or earlier, and one completed in pre-3. I think it’s likely that the newer one was in progress as you updated the mod, especially so as the next pre-3 run registered its startpoint just fine

winged shale
#

Yeah, I think that might be right.

#

So yup, I think that issue is fixed.

winged shale
rich sinew
#

I love ticking off issues without putting in any work✨

winged shale
# winged shale I've been thinking about this TODO item you have > Progressively worse Kharaa in...

Regarding implementing mechanical effects for Kharaa in the late game - Warpers apparently do more damage the more progressed your infection level is, and after visiting the Disease Research Facility and getting the "infected hands" animation they do enough damage that I think the Deathrun damage multiplier will allow them to one-shot you from 100% health. So, assuming manually triggering the "infected hands" animation also increments your infection level, that's a difficulty boost right there from doing that animation on a timer rather than leaving it up to the player whether they choose to visit the DRF or not.

winged shale
#

(Since I think the animation locks you in place, it might be problematic to trigger it during a fight or when you're racing to reoxygenate or something. Might be more fair to only trigger it if you're e.g. inside a base or vehicle - assuming it can even play when you're piloting a vehicle - and if you're swimming around reschedule another check for 30 seconds later or something.)

quiet cobalt
#

I think entering the inactive lava zone also makes you fully infected

winged shale
#

Oh, cool - that's good to know. Does it trigger the full-on hands animation, or just quietly bump up your level internally?

#

Still, in a typical Deathrun run I will dip into the Lost River many, many hours before I'm ready to head to the ILZ, to get nickel and crystalline sulphur for the Seamoth depth modules 2 & 3 and other upgrades. Triggering max infection on a silent timer after you first visit the Lost River would therefore likely significantly bring forward the point that you become fully infected.

quiet cobalt
#

There is no animation. Maybe DeathRun Remade can move it to the Lost River. I’m not sure I’m a big fan of that, though. ☺️

#

IMO being one shot by warpers is a bit unfair

winged shale
#

I'm basing the one-shot theory on a YouTube video I watched by a guy called Tormuse, playing CattleSquat's Deathrun on Legacy Subnautica. After visiting the Disease Research Facility, he was ascending to the surface and just died very abruptly: https://youtu.be/_7ozPbQaqVc?t=11161

#

So to be clear, I'm not advocating that the mod should deliberately do that. I'm just pointing out that it's apparently a consequence of the damage multiplier of Deathrun (or possibly Worse Than Deathrun) and maximum infection stage.

quiet cobalt
#

I watched that video. That incident made Tormuse abruptly stop his attempts at further trying to complete a run on max difficulty settings. I might be one to continue attempts, but I think many will react in the same way as Tormuse has.

#

It might be argued, that well if you aren’t of stature to accept such deaths and continue then those settings perhaps aren’t for you. Debatable.

#

His death was not because of bad skill. Warpers are silent if they don’t do their warping thing and one can swim into one if it so happens to warp to directly in front of you with no time to react.

winged shale
#

Yup, agreed, that was a very unfair death.

quiet cobalt
#

I mean, by all means change max infection to when entering the Lost River, but then reduce Warper claw damage slightly

rich sinew
#

It might be worth having a sort of oneshot protection built in

#

Like if you're above 90% you can't die in one hit unless vanilla would have oneshot you too

quiet cobalt
#

I’m fine with a dragon biting you dead in one shot, they are avoidable

#

It’s just the warping mechanic that makes warpers especially dangerous

#

Of course there are some that subscribe to that bad luck should sometimes end a run outside of the player’s control. Maybe have the one shot protection optional

winged shale
# quiet cobalt I’m fine with a dragon biting you dead in one shot, they are avoidable

I've also seen Tormuse lose a run to the fire breath of a Sea Dragon - the breath clipping through the wall when he was deep in the twisty caves in the Lava Castle. Also an unfair death. I don't know if it was a one-shot, since the Sea Dragon fires multiple balls in your direction - it's possible that he got hammered by multiple fireballs clipping through the terrain.

#

But still, yeah, I really like the idea of oneshot protection when your health is above some threshold like 90%, except for very specific exceptions (e.g. being eaten by a Sea Dragon)

#

(Also, the death to Sea Dragon breath came up in the high score table as "Extreme Heat", which I felt was a confusing description too - if this mod could call it something more explicit like "Sea Dragon Fire" that would be great. I'm assuming that the "Cause of Death" text strings are manually assigned by the Deathrun mod, rather than something built in to Subnautica...)

quiet cobalt
#

Besides the fireballs ignoring walls, I think there is also some other vanilla damage bug associated with the fireballs. I've seen a few reports of people playing unmodded getting one shot by them.

winged shale
#

Huh, interesting. But you don't believe it's meant to be a one-shot from 100% health in the vanilla game?

quiet cobalt
#

From the fireballs, no

winged shale
#

Cool - sounds reasonable to me. Getting eaten/bitten by a Sea Dragon on the other hand does kill you in one shot from 100% I believe, and that feels right.

quiet cobalt
#

Yes

#

That thing does have a very big mouth

winged shale
#

I'm not sure Raqzas could do anything about the fireballs clipping through terrain (or if it would even be the place for Deathrun to address it), but I wonder if it would be possible to make the increased creature aggression in Deathrun use raycasting to determine if the creature has line-of-sight to the player before bumping up the aggression range. It might be a big performance hit if there are lots of aggressive creatures around (like all the stalkers in a Kelp Forest) though.

#

Like, the Sea Dragon in the giant ILZ cavern shouldn't even be trying to shoot fireballs at you if it can't see you because you're inside the Lava Castle.

#

Technically Reapers can "see" you with sonar, but I wouldn't object to them also requiring line-of-sight to aggro.

quiet cobalt
#

They should not be beyond physical laws no

winged shale
#

It would help prevent the crazy clipping of the Reaper through the mountain island.

#

Original Deathrun actually had a hint line "Enemies only chase you if they can SEE you." but I don't know if there was any explicit code in the mod to enforce that. The Reaper at the mountain island suggests not 😅

quiet cobalt
#

That thing gave me the fright of my life the other day. It wasn't roaring and just appeared through the mountain island while I was chilling at a brain coral. Luckily my ractions were sharp and I could strafe in time

winged shale
#

Yikes 😆

#

Yeah, it's given me jumpscares many times.

#

My standard approach when doing a run these days is to swim to the mountain island exactly once, and never re-enter the waters around the island again. Activate the portal to the other island, and only ever use the portal to leave and return from then on. Until I have a stasis rifle that is.

quiet cobalt
#

It is kind of silly to be forced to resort to that.

winged shale
#

I mean, it's good that my Deathrun experiences mean that even the hint of a roar of a Reaper gives me the willies 😁 But yeah, it shouldn't be because they can phase through solid rock.

rich sinew
rich sinew
winged shale
#

Oh, interesting. I don't play on higher than Deathrun settings, and I've definitely had the Reaper clip through the mountain island trying to reach me.

winged shale
#

I'd advocate for allowing hiding behind terrain at all difficulty levels. It's not particularly powerful to hide behind terrain in a game where you're swimming in open water 90% of the time. In fact, I'd argue that having an incentive to hide on the ocean floor like a scared little fish is more thematic and probably makes the game harder (but more rewarding to player skill) than just having the player say "sod it, there's no point in trying to stealth, the hostile creatures can magically see me no matter what I do so I'll just book it everywhere."

#

Overall, the issues with creatures clipping through entire mountains or shooting fireballs at a completely obscured player feel like serious bugs, while the payoff of "making the experience harder" can be done in other ways that don't risk breaking things as badly.

rich sinew
quiet cobalt
winged shale
#

Wow, that's harsh. The most plausible theory is that they were warped, slashed and run over by their Seamoth all at once, but the audio doesn't really seem to support that.

#

It suggests that any sort of one-shot protection Raqzas might add to Deathrun would need to be time-based (keeping a record of the player's health 1 second previously or something), rather than per-hit based.

sonic cairn
#

would this mod be considered under development for 2.0 still?

#

im looking for a more challenging experience, but the aggro range bug concerns me

#

i already have problems with sea dragons clipping under the ground and launching fireballs through the ground at me 😛

winged shale
#

I'm not the dev, but it's definitely still under development. What do you mean by the "aggro range bug" though? The mod explicitly increases aggro range, but that's not a bug, it's a feature 😁

quiet cobalt
#

It also has different settings for how aggro they should be

winged shale
#

Or are you talking about the line-of-sight stuff that was discussed above, @sonic cairn?

sonic cairn
#

oh yes, the LOS stuff, sorry. long day.

winged shale
#

Yeah, agreed - as I said above, I'd argue that the LOS stuff should be used at all difficulty levels, because it breaks too many things without it. Or at least make it something you can toggle independent of difficulty level.

sonic cairn
#

alright, its been a while since i nabbed anything that wasnt off nexus, so how do i go about getting this downloaded as a zip?

quiet cobalt
sonic cairn
#

oh baller, thanks!

#

ok last q, are there any mods/types of mods that deathrun doesnt play well with? i mostly have additional modules and seamoth arms

quiet cobalt
#

I suggest turning radiation off for now